0:00:07 > 0:00:11For ten years, the West has waged a secret war against Al-Qaeda.
0:00:13 > 0:00:20Last time, we detailed America's campaign of abduction, clandestine interrogation and torture.
0:00:23 > 0:00:29But in recent years, the secret war has moved into a new phase.
0:00:31 > 0:00:35The best game in town, the one that's shifted the battlefield in our favour.
0:00:35 > 0:00:42Under increasing pressure, Al-Qaeda has found ways to adapt and strike back, to deadly effect.
0:00:42 > 0:00:46It's not a watch, it's a detonator.
0:00:46 > 0:00:48To kill as much as I can, insha'Allah.
0:00:48 > 0:00:52President Obama claims he has the enemy on the run...
0:00:52 > 0:00:57We have put Al-Qaeda on a path to defeat, and we will not relent until the job is done.
0:00:57 > 0:01:02..hunting down its leaders right to the very top.
0:01:02 > 0:01:05This was way high risk. If you're having a bunch of guys
0:01:05 > 0:01:06running around a hot compound
0:01:06 > 0:01:12at night, with high walls, he ain't gonna come out but feet first, I think.
0:01:15 > 0:01:19I've watched this story unfold since 9/11.
0:01:19 > 0:01:22For this series, I've talked to those at the heart
0:01:22 > 0:01:25of this secret war, including the former head of MI5.
0:01:25 > 0:01:31In her first ever television interview, she reveals how the threat escalated.
0:01:31 > 0:01:35We felt...really, really oppressed by the scale of what we were having to deal with
0:01:35 > 0:01:37and the choices we were having to make.
0:01:41 > 0:01:46After a decade of fighting the world's most formidable terrorist organisation
0:01:46 > 0:01:51and with Bin Laden now dead, is the West winning?
0:01:51 > 0:01:53And are we now any safer from attack?
0:02:18 > 0:02:21Schiphol Airport, Amsterdam.
0:02:21 > 0:02:24On Christmas Day 2009,
0:02:24 > 0:02:27Jasper Schuringa was heading to America on Flight 253
0:02:27 > 0:02:30to spend the holidays with his sister.
0:02:43 > 0:02:47'The beginning of the flight was just like any regular flight.
0:02:47 > 0:02:50'It was easy-going, I slept, just had some breakfast.'
0:02:58 > 0:03:02'As we begin our approach, please make sure that all seats are in the upright position...'
0:03:02 > 0:03:05'The plane was getting ready for final approach.
0:03:05 > 0:03:08'Suddenly, we heard like an explosion.
0:03:08 > 0:03:11A real sharp explosion.
0:03:11 > 0:03:14And when you hear an explosion in a plane,
0:03:14 > 0:03:16you really...like, your heart stops.
0:03:18 > 0:03:19Come here!
0:03:19 > 0:03:22But Jasper reacted instinctively.
0:03:22 > 0:03:24He launched himself straight at the bomber.
0:03:24 > 0:03:30'He was trying to do something in the area of his underpants, so I grabbed this bomb thing.'
0:03:30 > 0:03:33It was on fire, it was a really strange object.
0:03:33 > 0:03:39'But he was trying to resist, and the bomb residue was dripping on the floor,'
0:03:39 > 0:03:43so at that point my major concern was that this plane was getting on fire.
0:03:43 > 0:03:49He was very scared, he was, like, shivering, and he had liked this dead,
0:03:49 > 0:03:55dead look in his eyes, like he thought he was already gone, I thought, that he might be in heaven.
0:03:56 > 0:03:58Give me a hand! Hold his leg!
0:04:01 > 0:04:05'I told him, I said to him, "So what is wrong with you?"'
0:04:05 > 0:04:08"How can you do this?" And then I slapped him.
0:04:10 > 0:04:15Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab had a bomb sewn into his underwear.
0:04:15 > 0:04:19It contained the highly explosive powder PETN,
0:04:19 > 0:04:24and he was struggling to trigger a full-scale explosion that would have brought down the plane.
0:04:34 > 0:04:41Flight 253, safe on the ground after what the White House says was a serious terrorist attempt.
0:04:41 > 0:04:44It was later on that I found out, I think a day later that I found out
0:04:44 > 0:04:49it was actually Al-Qaeda and the big terrorist network behind it.
0:04:51 > 0:04:55- How lucky were you? - We really shouldn't be here,
0:04:55 > 0:05:02because the first pop that we had in the plane, that was supposed to be the final detonation of the bomb.
0:05:02 > 0:05:06And so I don't know why, maybe it was my little angel on my shoulder,
0:05:06 > 0:05:10but...yeah, so...we survived.
0:05:13 > 0:05:19How close did Abdulmutallab come to succeeding over Detroit on Christmas Day?
0:05:20 > 0:05:22Unfortunately, too close.
0:05:22 > 0:05:26This particular individual was putting these explosives together.
0:05:26 > 0:05:29I would consider it to be, as my experts would,
0:05:29 > 0:05:31to be very creative and very good.
0:05:31 > 0:05:32What are you doing?!
0:05:32 > 0:05:36How do you regard the passenger who tackled Abdulmutallab?
0:05:36 > 0:05:38A hero!
0:05:38 > 0:05:40A true hero.
0:05:41 > 0:05:46More than eight years after 9/11, Al-Qaeda could still breach security
0:05:46 > 0:05:52at a European airport and be seconds away from destroying an American aircraft over an American city.
0:05:55 > 0:05:58The bomber, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab,
0:05:58 > 0:06:01had been identified to the CIA as a known extremist,
0:06:01 > 0:06:04but he was never stopped from boarding a flight.
0:06:08 > 0:06:11It wasn't meant to be like this.
0:06:11 > 0:06:14Since 9/11, intelligence agencies on both sides of the Atlantic
0:06:14 > 0:06:18have had massive increases in funding to counter the terrorist threat.
0:06:18 > 0:06:24MI5's budget increased dramatically after the 2005 London bombings.
0:06:25 > 0:06:29In Britain, even before the attacks, intelligence chiefs were alarmed
0:06:29 > 0:06:32as they were inundated with potential plots.
0:06:33 > 0:06:37We felt...really, really oppressed
0:06:37 > 0:06:40by the scale of what we were having to deal with
0:06:40 > 0:06:45and the choices we were having to make, which was why, when I became director general,
0:06:45 > 0:06:50I asked the Prime Minister and the Cabinet for substantial extra resources
0:06:50 > 0:06:56to deal with this... much greater problem than we had previously anticipated.
0:06:59 > 0:07:05By the summer of 2006, the increased funding was beginning to pay off.
0:07:05 > 0:07:10British and American intelligence were now tracking the biggest terrorist plot since 9/11.
0:07:10 > 0:07:16It was destined to change the nature of air travel for millions across the world.
0:07:19 > 0:07:24It was, and remains today, ten years in, the most significant plot that we've faced.
0:07:24 > 0:07:31It's my view that it was intended to be a fifth anniversary attack.
0:07:32 > 0:07:37The plans were ambitious and extensive.
0:07:37 > 0:07:39The technology was simple.
0:07:45 > 0:07:49The plot was to smuggle explosives concealed in soft-drinks bottles
0:07:49 > 0:07:51through airport security at Heathrow.
0:07:54 > 0:07:58They came up with a very innovative solution, which was a binary explosive.
0:07:58 > 0:08:03Combine the two liquids and you have an explosive.
0:08:03 > 0:08:06Make it look like Gatorade or some sort of drink,
0:08:06 > 0:08:10and onboard it goes and probably would have been effective.
0:08:10 > 0:08:16To demonstrate what the liquid bombs would have done to an airliner, the BBC conducted this experiment
0:08:16 > 0:08:21using the same ingredients and formula as the bombers.
0:08:29 > 0:08:35The plan was to detonate bombs on seven transatlantic flights simultaneously.
0:08:35 > 0:08:39It would have been an attack conducted by British citizens
0:08:39 > 0:08:44against the United States of America and Canada.
0:08:44 > 0:08:49If the explosions had taken place in mid-Atlantic,
0:08:49 > 0:08:53the chances are high that we would not have known how it had happened.
0:08:53 > 0:08:58The airline industry would have closed down
0:08:58 > 0:09:02or been severely altered for a number of years,
0:09:02 > 0:09:07and it would have been a major political success for Al-Qaeda.
0:09:15 > 0:09:21But the expansion of covert surveillance in Britain and America was producing results.
0:09:25 > 0:09:29The scale of the surveillance was unprecedented.
0:09:29 > 0:09:35It was of such a scale that it enabled us to have complete visibility
0:09:35 > 0:09:40on the planning and the experimentation and the activities of these people.
0:09:40 > 0:09:45So we were quite content that we could keep the public safe at the same time as gathering evidence.
0:09:49 > 0:09:54Surveillance teams watched the plotters until they were on the brink of carrying out the attack.
0:09:55 > 0:10:01They even listened in as the suicide videos were being recorded.
0:10:03 > 0:10:06We Muslims are people of honour.
0:10:06 > 0:10:08We are people of izzat, we're brave.
0:10:08 > 0:10:12We've warned you so many times to get out of our lands, leave us alone.
0:10:12 > 0:10:14And now the time has come for you to be destroyed,
0:10:14 > 0:10:18and you have nothing but to expect but floods of martyr operation,
0:10:18 > 0:10:22volcanoes of anger and revenge erupting amongst your capital.
0:10:26 > 0:10:29SIRENS WAIL
0:10:29 > 0:10:32The police moved in and arrested the plotters.
0:10:34 > 0:10:37Six young British Muslims were convicted and sentenced to life.
0:10:41 > 0:10:46It was an unprecedented success for the West's secret war on terror.
0:10:48 > 0:10:53If they were conducting that plot against our security services
0:10:53 > 0:10:57as they existed in 2000 or 2001,
0:10:57 > 0:10:59that plot succeeds.
0:10:59 > 0:11:02But we've changed, we've gotten better.
0:11:02 > 0:11:06That plot is much more difficult now for them to pull off.
0:11:09 > 0:11:14But what happened next would show that the intelligence services still faced formidable obstacles.
0:11:16 > 0:11:19The airlines plot, like many others,
0:11:19 > 0:11:23was conceived, organised and directed not from Britain, but from Pakistan.
0:11:25 > 0:11:28One of the instigators was British-born Rashid Rauf,
0:11:28 > 0:11:31the son of a baker from Birmingham.
0:11:34 > 0:11:36Rauf was now living in Pakistan.
0:11:40 > 0:11:44I think there's little doubt that Rashid Rauf was a key planner,
0:11:44 > 0:11:47a key plotter, probably a key leader in this.
0:11:47 > 0:11:51He was obviously a link between the network here in the UK
0:11:51 > 0:11:53and Al-Qaeda leadership in Pakistan.
0:11:53 > 0:12:00He was very connected to core Al-Qaeda all the way up to the leadership.
0:12:00 > 0:12:04He was very involved with the leadership of external operations,
0:12:04 > 0:12:10so he was intimately involved with core Al-Qaeda and I consider him a member of core Al-Qaeda.
0:12:13 > 0:12:19Shortly before the plotters were arrested in the UK, Rauf was seized by the Pakistani authorities.
0:12:21 > 0:12:24But, just 16 months later, he escaped.
0:12:28 > 0:12:33On the way back from court, he'd asked to stop off at a fast food outlet.
0:12:38 > 0:12:41He then asked to pray at the mosque next door.
0:12:44 > 0:12:46As his guards waited in the car outside,
0:12:46 > 0:12:49Rashid Rauf slipped out of the back.
0:12:51 > 0:12:53We had, not only a player,
0:12:53 > 0:12:55not only a critical player, but a critical player
0:12:55 > 0:13:00directed against citizens of the UK and America
0:13:00 > 0:13:02and it looked like he went out the back door.
0:13:02 > 0:13:05I remember the morning I heard that, like, "I can't believe this."
0:13:05 > 0:13:08This isn't some chump change facilitator, this is a player.
0:13:08 > 0:13:11So, I confess, a lot of anger and frustration.
0:13:13 > 0:13:17Rauf's escape highlighted the fundamental tensions in the relationship
0:13:17 > 0:13:21between western intelligence and their counterparts in Pakistan.
0:13:25 > 0:13:30Pakistan, and especially Pakistan's army and intelligence service,
0:13:30 > 0:13:33is our most important ally in the war against Al-Qaeda
0:13:33 > 0:13:37and our most difficult ally in the war against Al-Qaeda.
0:13:37 > 0:13:40And nothing demonstrated these difficulties more
0:13:40 > 0:13:44than the fate of Osama Bin Laden after he fled Afghanistan in 2001.
0:13:44 > 0:13:46We're going to smoke him out,
0:13:46 > 0:13:51and we're adjusting our thinking to the new type of enemy.
0:13:51 > 0:13:57There's an old poster out west that said, "Wanted dead or alive."
0:14:00 > 0:14:02But the key question was, where was he?
0:14:04 > 0:14:07I used to brief President Bush every Thursday morning.
0:14:07 > 0:14:12I got that question in some way, shape or form once a week every Thursday morning.
0:14:12 > 0:14:16And I came back and I called my chief of counter-terrorism and said,
0:14:16 > 0:14:22"Come on, for the nth time, the President of United States has asked me,
0:14:22 > 0:14:25"Why can't we find Osama bin Laden?"
0:14:25 > 0:14:29And my chief of counter-terrorism, a very serious man, very talented,
0:14:29 > 0:14:34leans forward and says, in response to my question, "Why can't we find him?
0:14:34 > 0:14:36"Because he's hiding."
0:14:40 > 0:14:43Hiding, yes, but not in a cave.
0:14:43 > 0:14:45We now know, that from at least 2005,
0:14:45 > 0:14:48America's high value target number one
0:14:48 > 0:14:51was actually living under the nose
0:14:51 > 0:14:54of Pakistan's intelligence agency, the ISI,
0:14:54 > 0:14:58in a garrison town a mere 40 miles from Islamabad.
0:14:58 > 0:15:02To think that nobody was aware that something unusual was going on,
0:15:02 > 0:15:04I think, is a bit of a stretch.
0:15:04 > 0:15:08These suspicions arise because, for more than 30 years,
0:15:08 > 0:15:11Pakistan has fought its own secret war in the region,
0:15:11 > 0:15:14to serve its own strategic ends.
0:15:14 > 0:15:17Pakistan has encouraged Islamist militants to fight its enemies
0:15:17 > 0:15:21since the 1980s when the Russians invaded Afghanistan.
0:15:21 > 0:15:25Against the Soviet Union we encouraged a Jihad.
0:15:25 > 0:15:30We called it a Jihad and we called it a Jihad because we wanted mujahideen,
0:15:30 > 0:15:34and we called them mujahideen to come from all over the Muslim world.
0:15:34 > 0:15:36And they came from Morocco to Indonesia,
0:15:36 > 0:15:39everyone came, 35,000, roughly.
0:15:39 > 0:15:41And then we trained Taliban and sent them in.
0:15:41 > 0:15:44From tribal agencies of Pakistan,
0:15:44 > 0:15:49so we introduced religious militancy in Afghanistan,
0:15:49 > 0:15:51and its fallout on Pakistan
0:15:51 > 0:15:55and also we introduced the concept of Jihad.
0:15:55 > 0:15:58Pakistan, and especially the Pakistani army,
0:15:58 > 0:16:00over the course of the last three or four decades,
0:16:00 > 0:16:03has been the incubator and midwife
0:16:03 > 0:16:06of more international terrorist Jihadist organisations
0:16:06 > 0:16:08than any other in the world.
0:16:08 > 0:16:11In effect, they have created a Jihadist Frankenstein
0:16:11 > 0:16:13in order to pursue their own national security interests.
0:16:16 > 0:16:19The suspicion was that Pakistan tolerated, even aided,
0:16:19 > 0:16:22the fugitive Al-Qaeda leadership inside the country,
0:16:22 > 0:16:26enabling them to carry out further attacks on the west.
0:16:27 > 0:16:31And, following his escape in 2006, Rashid Rauf,
0:16:31 > 0:16:34one of the suspected instigators of the airlines plot,
0:16:34 > 0:16:37was soon operational again.
0:16:37 > 0:16:40Less than two years later,
0:16:40 > 0:16:44he met a young Jihadi volunteer who'd been brought up in America.
0:16:48 > 0:16:53This was the new, very dangerous model, which is, "We, Al-Qaeda, will recruit you.
0:16:53 > 0:16:56"We will train you to be very capable."
0:16:56 > 0:16:59And he was very capable in terms of the explosives he was making.
0:16:59 > 0:17:02Very dangerous, very, very potent.
0:17:05 > 0:17:08"And then we'll send you home and you figure out what your targets
0:17:08 > 0:17:11"going to be, but just make it big and impactful."
0:17:27 > 0:17:33After being trained in Pakistan, new recruit Najibullah Zazi headed back to America.
0:17:37 > 0:17:42He'd been identified as a terrorist suspect through intercepted e-mails.
0:17:42 > 0:17:46The FBI secretly monitored him buying peroxide and acetone,
0:17:46 > 0:17:49household products that were the ingredients for a bomb.
0:17:51 > 0:17:54This was the real thing. This wasn't aspirational.
0:17:54 > 0:17:57This wasn't, "He was planning to or thinking about."
0:17:57 > 0:18:02This was he had built the explosives, tested them, understood that he could build them and was going to New York
0:18:02 > 0:18:07to manufacture more explosives and then to deploy that operation likely in New York.
0:18:08 > 0:18:14Zazi planned to strike at the very heart of New York, but FBI agents were watching.
0:18:15 > 0:18:21They saw him visiting some of the biggest transport intersections like Grand Central Station
0:18:21 > 0:18:25and suspected he was planning a catastrophic attack on the subway.
0:18:27 > 0:18:31But, before he could act, the police arrested him and two other members of his cell.
0:18:34 > 0:18:39Were it not for the combined efforts of the law enforcement and intelligence communities,
0:18:39 > 0:18:40it could have been devastating.
0:18:44 > 0:18:50The FBI's operation disrupted what would have been America's first home-grown suicide attack.
0:18:56 > 0:19:01Najibullah Zazi represented probably the gravest threat of terrorism on American soil since 9/11.
0:19:05 > 0:19:09For the second time, a major plot linked to Rashid Rauf
0:19:09 > 0:19:13had narrowly failed to inflict massive civilian casualties.
0:19:24 > 0:19:28In November 2008, it appears that Rashid Rauf's career
0:19:28 > 0:19:32as a key Al-Qaeda operative suddenly came to an end.
0:19:38 > 0:19:41My information is that Rashid Rauf...
0:19:42 > 0:19:45..was killed in a drone attack.
0:19:49 > 0:19:54For several years, the Americans had been developing a new state-of-the-art tactic.
0:19:54 > 0:20:01It's a high-tech pilotless drone aircraft with a lethal payload of hellfire missiles.
0:20:02 > 0:20:05It's used to target key figures in Al-Qaeda,
0:20:05 > 0:20:10bypassing the need for Pakistan's sometimes unreliable co-operation.
0:20:11 > 0:20:13It's known as the Predator.
0:20:34 > 0:20:37Barack Obama's election victory in November 2008
0:20:37 > 0:20:42signalled a fundamental shift in America's approach to the war against Al-Qaeda.
0:20:44 > 0:20:50Under previous president George W Bush, the CIA and the military had been given free rein
0:20:50 > 0:20:54to wage a secret war against the terrorists using abduction,
0:20:54 > 0:20:58secret interrogation black sites and torture.
0:21:00 > 0:21:01America doesn't torture,
0:21:01 > 0:21:05and I'm going to make sure that we don't torture.
0:21:05 > 0:21:11Those are part and parcel of an effort to regain America's moral stature in the world.
0:21:14 > 0:21:19Obama pledged to restore human rights in the balance of liberty and security.
0:21:19 > 0:21:22But behind the liberal rhetoric was a clinical decision
0:21:22 > 0:21:27to hit Al-Qaeda hard, using legally contentious means.
0:21:31 > 0:21:36America first deployed its new secret weapon under George W Bush,
0:21:36 > 0:21:41but now Obama decided to ratchet up the use of these pilotless aircraft.
0:21:43 > 0:21:45My agency has pointed out
0:21:45 > 0:21:48that a significant fraction of Al-Qaeda's senior leadership
0:21:48 > 0:21:51in the tribal region has, the euphemism we have used is
0:21:51 > 0:21:53"taken off the battlefield".
0:21:53 > 0:21:57By the way, "taken off the battlefield" used to mean "killed or captured".
0:21:57 > 0:22:02In the last couple of years, "taken off the battlefield" simply means killed.
0:22:02 > 0:22:05We just aren't doing many, any, capturing.
0:22:12 > 0:22:15Although launched from Afghanistan,
0:22:15 > 0:22:20the drones are piloted by remote control thousands of miles away inside the United States.
0:22:22 > 0:22:25The military is happy to show off its drones,
0:22:25 > 0:22:27but the CIA programme is so secret
0:22:27 > 0:22:31the agency won't even acknowledge its existence.
0:22:31 > 0:22:37A significant portion of Al-Qaeda senior leadership in the tribal region of Pakistan has been killed.
0:22:37 > 0:22:39- By drones? - Well, your words, not mine.
0:22:39 > 0:22:41All I can say is they've been killed.
0:22:41 > 0:22:45Killed with suddenness and precision, I could add.
0:22:50 > 0:22:54President Obama has authorised more than 160 drone strikes,
0:22:54 > 0:22:57almost four times those sanctioned by President Bush.
0:23:00 > 0:23:02The best game in town,
0:23:02 > 0:23:08the one that's shifted the battlefield in our favour.
0:23:08 > 0:23:12It has been a very strong,
0:23:12 > 0:23:17significant force in making Al-Qaeda's senior leadership
0:23:17 > 0:23:21spend most of their waking moments worrying about their survival
0:23:21 > 0:23:23rather than threatening yours or mine.
0:23:23 > 0:23:26And that is a war-winning effort.
0:23:29 > 0:23:32But there's a downside to drone attacks -
0:23:32 > 0:23:35hundreds of civilians have been killed.
0:23:35 > 0:23:37CHANTING
0:23:41 > 0:23:43Protests have mounted across Pakistan,
0:23:43 > 0:23:47fuelling anti-American propaganda even more.
0:24:06 > 0:24:10What's your view of the drone attacks on Pakistani soil?
0:24:10 > 0:24:12I'm sure they pick up the right targets.
0:24:13 > 0:24:18But then there is the problem of collateral damage, number one.
0:24:18 > 0:24:19Killing of civilians.
0:24:19 > 0:24:25And the second issue of violation of our territorial integrity or sovereignty.
0:24:25 > 0:24:28Did you say the Americans could do this?
0:24:28 > 0:24:32- Did you say they could carry out drone attacks on Pakistani soil?- No.
0:24:32 > 0:24:34- I didn't say that. - You didn't agree to it?- No. No.
0:24:35 > 0:24:37The use of drone strikes
0:24:37 > 0:24:41inside countries where the US is not involved in armed conflict
0:24:41 > 0:24:45is a violation of international law according to some authorities.
0:24:45 > 0:24:50And some believe it's tantamount to unlawful extra-judicial killing.
0:24:52 > 0:24:54This is a quite awesome power,
0:24:54 > 0:24:57the power to label somebody as an enemy
0:24:57 > 0:25:00and by virtue of having labelled them as an enemy,
0:25:00 > 0:25:03wipe them out without judicial process of any kind.
0:25:03 > 0:25:06Isn't that state authorised assassination?
0:25:06 > 0:25:11To target suspects, fire missiles at them from out of the sky?
0:25:11 > 0:25:12Absolutely not.
0:25:12 > 0:25:15In the traditional conduct of war,
0:25:15 > 0:25:19and, Peter, that's the punchline here, this is a war.
0:25:19 > 0:25:21You asked the question, aren't these assassinations?
0:25:21 > 0:25:23No. They're not assassinations.
0:25:23 > 0:25:25This is armed conflict.
0:25:25 > 0:25:27This is action against opposing armed enemy force.
0:25:27 > 0:25:31This is an inherent right of the American state to self-defence.
0:25:31 > 0:25:33But the war is in Afghanistan, not in Pakistan.
0:25:33 > 0:25:35That may be some people's views.
0:25:35 > 0:25:38But it's not the view of the United States government.
0:25:38 > 0:25:42The President... Two Presidents of the United States have said we are at war.
0:25:42 > 0:25:46We've seen, over and over again, the administration,
0:25:46 > 0:25:50first the Bush administration and now the Obama administration,
0:25:50 > 0:25:53label somebody as a terrorist, only to find out later on
0:25:53 > 0:25:57that the evidence we relied on was weak or just outright wrong.
0:26:02 > 0:26:05The first question is have they identified the person right?
0:26:05 > 0:26:10The second question is have they targeted, have they got the right place to shoot the drone at,
0:26:10 > 0:26:12is that where the individual really is?
0:26:12 > 0:26:15The odds of them getting that right are very slim.
0:26:15 > 0:26:17The third problem is who does get killed?
0:26:17 > 0:26:20Are these really Taliban people in Al-Qaeda
0:26:20 > 0:26:22or are they random civilians who had nothing to do with it?
0:26:24 > 0:26:28It would be naive to believe the propaganda that says that
0:26:28 > 0:26:31firing these fantastic weapons is killing the right people.
0:26:34 > 0:26:39Although President Obama may be free of the stigma of abduction and torture,
0:26:39 > 0:26:43drone attacks are now fuelling Al-Qaeda propaganda
0:26:43 > 0:26:46just as the abuses under the Bush administration once did.
0:26:46 > 0:26:50And they're driving more recruits to the terrorist cause,
0:26:50 > 0:26:54as one dramatic event in late 2009 was to prove.
0:26:58 > 0:27:03Forward Operating Base Chapman is the intelligence nerve centre
0:27:03 > 0:27:05of America's secret drone war.
0:27:06 > 0:27:09Located in Khost, just across the Afghan border from Pakistan,
0:27:09 > 0:27:14it's where the CIA gather pinpoint intelligence to target the drones.
0:27:16 > 0:27:18The drones only work
0:27:18 > 0:27:21if you have good human intelligence sources on the ground
0:27:21 > 0:27:22that tell you where to fly.
0:27:27 > 0:27:32From here, the CIA runs a network of spies and informers.
0:27:32 > 0:27:36This is the precarious frontline in the secret war on terror.
0:27:38 > 0:27:42If you're going to run assets into the tribal belt
0:27:42 > 0:27:46on the Pakistani side of the Afghan-Pakistan border,
0:27:46 > 0:27:48you have to be as close as possible.
0:27:48 > 0:27:51You don't want to have to communicate with them from afar.
0:27:51 > 0:27:55You want to be able to deal with your assets within an hour or so
0:27:55 > 0:27:58after they leave Pakistan.
0:27:59 > 0:28:03This is very dangerous work against a very capable enemy.
0:28:05 > 0:28:09That's an example of our pursuing the kind of exquisite intelligence
0:28:09 > 0:28:11that is legally and morally required
0:28:11 > 0:28:15before you can carry on some of these activities.
0:28:15 > 0:28:16This is not without risk.
0:28:25 > 0:28:27Towards the end of 2009,
0:28:27 > 0:28:32the CIA agents at the base were presented with a unique opportunity.
0:28:35 > 0:28:41Jordanian intelligence had a Palestinian source called Khalil al-Balawi
0:28:41 > 0:28:44who said he'd infiltrated the highest ranks of Al-Qaeda.
0:28:46 > 0:28:52In this case, you had an asset who had spent considerable time
0:28:52 > 0:28:57building his cover story, that he was a penetration of Al-Qaeda.
0:28:57 > 0:29:00That he'd been Al-Qaeda propagandist.
0:29:00 > 0:29:01But that he had turned,
0:29:01 > 0:29:04he had come to see that Al-Qaeda was an enemy of Islam.
0:29:07 > 0:29:11What al-Balawi was offering was the holy grail of the secret intelligence war.
0:29:18 > 0:29:22Al-Balawi was offering extraordinary information,
0:29:22 > 0:29:26something we'd been looking for for a decade and hadn't even come close to,
0:29:26 > 0:29:29the location of high-value target number two,
0:29:29 > 0:29:32and perhaps high-value target number one,
0:29:32 > 0:29:35Ayman al-Zawahiri and Osama bin Laden.
0:29:37 > 0:29:40Second only to the elusive Osama bin Laden,
0:29:40 > 0:29:44al-Zawahiri was the strategic mastermind of Al-Qaeda.
0:29:44 > 0:29:47Al-Balawi's story seemed highly credible,
0:29:47 > 0:29:50an opportunity that could not be missed
0:29:50 > 0:29:54and he came with eye-watering proof of his association with Zawahiri.
0:29:57 > 0:30:00My understanding is that he actually provided photographs
0:30:00 > 0:30:04that showed him and Zawahiri meeting together.
0:30:04 > 0:30:10The ultimate proof that he knew where the target was.
0:30:10 > 0:30:14The CIA agents arranged to meet their priceless asset at the base.
0:30:21 > 0:30:24When al-Balawi arrived with his Jordanian handler,
0:30:24 > 0:30:29the most valuable asset the agency had ever recruited in its secret war against Al-Qaeda
0:30:29 > 0:30:32was greeted by a CIA reception committee.
0:30:38 > 0:30:41But only hours before he entered the CIA compound,
0:30:41 > 0:30:45al-Balawi had recorded this chilling video message for his hosts.
0:31:25 > 0:31:27As al-Balawi stepped down from the car,
0:31:27 > 0:31:30the CIA moved in to check him out.
0:31:33 > 0:31:36They were concerned that his hands were still under his cloak.
0:31:38 > 0:31:39Al-Balawi pressed the button.
0:31:40 > 0:31:42EXPLOSION
0:31:44 > 0:31:49Seven CIA officers were killed, including the head of station.
0:31:49 > 0:31:54It was the deadliest attack on the CIA in more than 25 years.
0:31:57 > 0:32:03The attack at Khost showed just how sophisticated and cunning Al-Qaeda has become.
0:32:03 > 0:32:09It's not a watch, it's a detonator. To kill as much as I can.
0:32:09 > 0:32:11In this deadliest of spy games,
0:32:11 > 0:32:15Al-Qaeda had outwitted the CIA and won.
0:32:15 > 0:32:19God willing, I go to paradise and you will be sent to hell.
0:32:20 > 0:32:23You had here an operation where Al-Qaeda is running it
0:32:23 > 0:32:28and using two allies in order to facilitate the operation.
0:32:28 > 0:32:33A triple agent, three organisations involved in running it,
0:32:33 > 0:32:35a prior suicide video already made.
0:32:35 > 0:32:39This was a very elaborate and very thought-through operation.
0:32:54 > 0:32:57Sitting next to al-Balawi in the suicide video
0:32:57 > 0:32:59was the brother of the Taliban leader in Pakistan
0:32:59 > 0:33:03who'd been killed in a drone attack six months earlier.
0:33:05 > 0:33:06May Allah have mercy on him.
0:33:06 > 0:33:09We taught the American CIA and Jordanian intelligence
0:33:09 > 0:33:13a lesson they will never forget with Allah's permission.
0:33:15 > 0:33:18The attack on the CIA base was clinical revenge.
0:33:25 > 0:33:31The damage inflicted by drones has dealt Al-Qaeda a crippling blow.
0:33:31 > 0:33:33Pakistan is no longer seen as a safe haven.
0:33:33 > 0:33:38No longer can Al-Qaeda train and organise in its tribal areas with impunity.
0:33:40 > 0:33:43That's a key reason why Al-Qaeda's focus has changed.
0:33:44 > 0:33:49It's always been a learning organisation. It's always adapted.
0:33:49 > 0:33:53It's, for want of a better phrase, a worthy adversary in that sense.
0:33:53 > 0:33:57But I think as a measure of our success,
0:33:57 > 0:33:59Al-Qaeda has been forced to adapt,
0:33:59 > 0:34:03perhaps in ways they would not have chosen otherwise.
0:34:05 > 0:34:10It's suffered lots of setbacks. It's lost some key people.
0:34:10 > 0:34:15But like all terrorist organisations, it mutates and learns.
0:34:16 > 0:34:21Franchises spread out so there will be groups all around the world,
0:34:21 > 0:34:24some of whom may be directed today by the core of Al-Qaeda.
0:34:26 > 0:34:30You know, it looks as though the only place we don't think it is is Antarctica.
0:34:36 > 0:34:39The Christmas Day attack on the flight over Detroit
0:34:39 > 0:34:43was a terrifying demonstration of Al-Qaeda's new flexibility.
0:34:43 > 0:34:46The young bomber, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab,
0:34:46 > 0:34:48had never set foot in Pakistan.
0:34:59 > 0:35:02The Nigerian student had been trained in Yemen
0:35:02 > 0:35:05by Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, or AQAP.
0:35:08 > 0:35:11In my opinion, AQAP right now
0:35:11 > 0:35:15is a greater imminent threat than core Al-Qaeda.
0:35:16 > 0:35:20Yemen has now become an alternative location for terrorist training,
0:35:20 > 0:35:24a location that boasts its own charismatic Al-Qaeda figurehead.
0:35:31 > 0:35:35It is important that we present the proper role models
0:35:35 > 0:35:39for ourselves to follow, for our children.
0:35:39 > 0:35:42'Anwar al-Awlaki is an American citizen,
0:35:42 > 0:35:44'the Bin Laden of the Internet.
0:35:44 > 0:35:47'He has both charisma and a track record.
0:35:47 > 0:35:51'He's been linked to the most recent terrorist attacks on the West...'
0:35:51 > 0:35:54..we need to study their biographies, learn about them.
0:35:54 > 0:35:57'..and has squeezed every ounce of propaganda
0:35:57 > 0:36:00'from the abortive aircraft attack over Detroit.'
0:36:01 > 0:36:05Our brother Umar Farouk has succeeded in breaking through
0:36:05 > 0:36:08the security systems that have cost the US government alone
0:36:08 > 0:36:13over 40 billion since 9/11.
0:36:13 > 0:36:16So, al-Awlaki's more than just a cleric?
0:36:16 > 0:36:18Much more than just a cleric.
0:36:18 > 0:36:20- What is he?- He's a terrorist.
0:36:20 > 0:36:24And he's involved increasingly in virtually every plot we see
0:36:24 > 0:36:26emanating from the Arabian peninsular,
0:36:26 > 0:36:29because of the power of his ideological message.
0:36:29 > 0:36:32'Because of the global reach of the Internet
0:36:32 > 0:36:34'and the fact that he speaks English,
0:36:34 > 0:36:37'al-Awlaki has managed to radicalise
0:36:37 > 0:36:40'and recruit young Muslims around the world,
0:36:40 > 0:36:41'seduced by his call to jihad.
0:36:41 > 0:36:45'He's becoming the spokesman for an Islamist revolution.'
0:36:45 > 0:36:48'We cannot stand idly in the face of such aggression,
0:36:48 > 0:36:51'and we will fight back and incite others to do the same.'
0:36:53 > 0:36:55What a terrible tragedy. Stunning.
0:36:55 > 0:36:58As I say, as I've gone around to the hospital here,
0:36:58 > 0:36:59as I've been at the scene,
0:36:59 > 0:37:01soldiers and family members
0:37:01 > 0:37:04and many of the great civilians that work here are absolutely devastated.
0:37:06 > 0:37:08'Al-Awlaki was mentor to Major Nidal Hasan,
0:37:08 > 0:37:12'a Palestinian psychiatrist serving in the American military.
0:37:13 > 0:37:15'In November 2009,
0:37:15 > 0:37:20'he shot dead 13 soldiers inside a Texas military base.
0:37:27 > 0:37:30'In May last year, a young British student stabbed and wounded
0:37:30 > 0:37:33'the former Government minister Stephen Timms
0:37:33 > 0:37:34'at his constituency surgery.
0:37:34 > 0:37:38'She admitted she'd drawn the inspiration to kill him
0:37:38 > 0:37:41'from watching al-Awlaki on the Internet.'
0:37:41 > 0:37:45A very charismatic individual, he's very articulate,
0:37:45 > 0:37:51and, if we could say, in some shape an intelligent human being,
0:37:51 > 0:37:53albeit warped human being.
0:37:54 > 0:37:57'Last October, al-Awlaki's group managed to place
0:37:57 > 0:38:02'two sophisticated bombs on cargo planes bound for the US.
0:38:02 > 0:38:05'They were concealed in printer cartridges.
0:38:06 > 0:38:08'Had the bombs exploded,
0:38:08 > 0:38:12'the results could have been two Lockerbie-style disasters.'
0:38:14 > 0:38:18It was not only sophisticated, but it was creative.
0:38:19 > 0:38:23And incredibly, incredibly difficult to detect
0:38:23 > 0:38:28through routine measures that are taken.
0:38:29 > 0:38:33'And al-Awlaki lost no opportunity to publicise his coup.
0:38:33 > 0:38:36'His glossy in-house magazine boasted
0:38:36 > 0:38:39'the operation had cost just 4,200,
0:38:39 > 0:38:41'including post and packing.
0:38:43 > 0:38:47'It had forced every cargo company to increase its security,
0:38:47 > 0:38:48'at great cost.
0:38:56 > 0:38:58'Al-Awlaki's revolutionary influence is being felt
0:38:58 > 0:39:02'inside Muslim communities across the English-speaking world.
0:39:02 > 0:39:06'In the UK, a mosque in Luton has experienced the effect.'
0:39:10 > 0:39:15In Anwar al-Awlaki, we can't deny, his knowledge is disseminated.
0:39:16 > 0:39:17People listen to him.
0:39:17 > 0:39:19What's his appeal?
0:39:19 > 0:39:22His appeal is he goes against the grain.
0:39:22 > 0:39:24"Here's America, and here's the West,
0:39:24 > 0:39:27"the great Satans attacking the Muslim lands,
0:39:27 > 0:39:29"we have to defend ourselves."
0:39:29 > 0:39:32So people tend to like this sort of person
0:39:32 > 0:39:36because he's going against the grain.
0:39:36 > 0:39:41'During Ramadan in 2007, a young man came to the Luton Islamic Centre
0:39:41 > 0:39:43'and began expressing extremist views
0:39:43 > 0:39:45'and preaching the need for jihad.
0:39:45 > 0:39:47'The mosque chairman stepped in.'
0:39:47 > 0:39:51I exposed his beliefs in front of the community. He was sitting there,
0:39:51 > 0:39:52listening to all that.
0:39:52 > 0:39:54I thought that would be enough embarrassment for him
0:39:54 > 0:39:59to remain silent, but instead he got up and he stormed out.
0:40:01 > 0:40:03'Then, last December,
0:40:03 > 0:40:06'a suicide bomber attacked the centre of Stockholm.
0:40:06 > 0:40:09'The bomber blew himself up, but luckily, no-one else died,
0:40:09 > 0:40:11'as his bomb exploded
0:40:11 > 0:40:14'before he could reach the busy shopping streets.
0:40:14 > 0:40:17'The bomber's name was Taimour al-Abdaly.
0:40:17 > 0:40:21'He was the young Muslim who'd stormed out of the Luton mosque.'
0:40:24 > 0:40:29It's thought that Anwar al-Awlaki influenced al-Abdaly in Stockholm.
0:40:29 > 0:40:31Would that surprise you?
0:40:31 > 0:40:35No, it wouldn't surprise me, because Anwar al-Awlaki advocates
0:40:35 > 0:40:38suicide bombing, he advocates killing innocent people.
0:40:40 > 0:40:44'Al-Awlaki's influence and ability to communicate directly
0:40:44 > 0:40:47'with so many impressionable young Muslims suggests that
0:40:47 > 0:40:51'it's more important than ever for the community to inform the police
0:40:51 > 0:40:53'about potential extremists.
0:40:53 > 0:40:54'But for many Muslims,
0:40:54 > 0:40:57'that's a difficult and controversial step to take.'
0:40:57 > 0:41:01Didn't you feel any obligation as a British citizen to inform
0:41:01 > 0:41:05the authorities about somebody about whom you're concerned,
0:41:05 > 0:41:07because of his extremist views?
0:41:07 > 0:41:12If we are seen to pass on information about the people we're dealing with
0:41:12 > 0:41:16on a grass-root level, number one, we lose our credibility,
0:41:16 > 0:41:19number two, these people will then go into hiding.
0:41:19 > 0:41:22That makes the job for the intelligence service harder.
0:41:30 > 0:41:33'Al-Awlaki is now a marked man.
0:41:33 > 0:41:36'It's believed that he has become the first American citizen to be
0:41:36 > 0:41:41'designated for capture or killing, authorised by President Obama.
0:41:41 > 0:41:44'A recent drone attack reportedly almost got him.'
0:41:44 > 0:41:46I understand that the President has authorised
0:41:46 > 0:41:49the targeting of al-Awlaki.
0:41:52 > 0:41:54Is that not state-authorised assassination?
0:41:56 > 0:41:58You know I can't comment on that, Peter.
0:42:00 > 0:42:05But he's somebody you would be happy to see removed from the scene?
0:42:05 > 0:42:07What I would be happy is that
0:42:07 > 0:42:10these individuals need to be neutralised in some way.
0:42:15 > 0:42:18'Al-Awlaki personifies the most pressing current threat
0:42:18 > 0:42:20'in the secret war on terror.
0:42:20 > 0:42:24'His ability to preach in English through the Internet has radicalised
0:42:24 > 0:42:25'a new generation.'
0:42:32 > 0:42:36'But many in the intelligence world I've spoken to now point to
0:42:36 > 0:42:37'another looming danger
0:42:37 > 0:42:41'rooted in the spread of militant Islam around the world.'
0:42:46 > 0:42:50'To find out more, I travelled to the cold and unlikely setting
0:42:50 > 0:42:51'of America's Midwest.'
0:42:58 > 0:43:01'Minneapolis is home to the largest community of Somalis
0:43:01 > 0:43:03'in the United States.
0:43:03 > 0:43:06'Most have fled the brutal civil wars
0:43:06 > 0:43:08'that have ravaged their homeland for more than 30 years.
0:43:11 > 0:43:14'Zuhur Ahmed hosts a local community radio show.'
0:43:15 > 0:43:17Here with the Somali community,
0:43:17 > 0:43:20because they're newly-immigrant communities,
0:43:20 > 0:43:23and they have yet to adapt to the American system.
0:43:23 > 0:43:27There's a lot of broken families, there's a lot of issues here,
0:43:27 > 0:43:31and struggles, as far as youth and the older generation,
0:43:31 > 0:43:34there's a gap between parents and their children.
0:43:34 > 0:43:37So, because of all these existing issues,
0:43:37 > 0:43:42of course it created that vulnerable group of young men.
0:43:45 > 0:43:49We're just coming into the Somali area now, are we?
0:43:49 > 0:43:53Yeah, that's correct. This is the Cedar-Riverside area of Minneapolis.
0:43:53 > 0:43:57'FBI agent EK Wilson became concerned
0:43:57 > 0:44:00'three years ago when a number
0:44:00 > 0:44:03'of young Somalis suddenly disappeared from their homes.'
0:44:07 > 0:44:11They had in some cases left for school one morning
0:44:11 > 0:44:13and simply not returned, simply vanished.
0:44:13 > 0:44:15And the parents would have no idea
0:44:15 > 0:44:18where they had gone and what they were doing?
0:44:18 > 0:44:20Correct, right.
0:44:20 > 0:44:26But even given that dramatic set of circumstances,
0:44:26 > 0:44:30there was still nobody coming to the police or nobody coming to the FBI
0:44:30 > 0:44:34saying, "My son disappeared - was he kidnapped?
0:44:34 > 0:44:36"We're concerned for his safety."
0:44:36 > 0:44:41We know that young men had disappeared,
0:44:41 > 0:44:46that they had left their families here in Minneapolis
0:44:46 > 0:44:50without saying where they were going.
0:44:50 > 0:44:52They had made their way back to Somalia.
0:44:57 > 0:45:00'At least 20 young Somalis had left Minneapolis
0:45:00 > 0:45:03'and travelled 8,000 miles to the heart of a brutal civil war.'
0:45:15 > 0:45:19'They'd gone to fight for al-Shabab, which means "the youth",
0:45:19 > 0:45:22'a militant Islamic army fighting for control of the country.'
0:45:28 > 0:45:31'Al-Shabab is affiliated to Al-Qaeda.'
0:45:31 > 0:45:35When you look at the al-Shabab videos,
0:45:35 > 0:45:38they're calling out for the youth, specifically for the youth,
0:45:38 > 0:45:40and they're saying, "Come and fight for your land,
0:45:40 > 0:45:41"fight for your religion,
0:45:41 > 0:45:44"and come and free yourself from the oppression."
0:45:47 > 0:45:51'One of the young men who went to join al-Shabab was Shirwa Ahmed.
0:45:51 > 0:45:52'To his friends,
0:45:52 > 0:45:56'he was just a typical American kid who'd recently left college.'
0:45:58 > 0:46:01'Nimco Ahmed had been his good friend for many years,
0:46:01 > 0:46:04'since their days together at high school.'
0:46:06 > 0:46:08He did well, everything he did.
0:46:08 > 0:46:12Things that every young man does in this country -
0:46:12 > 0:46:16work, go to school, go to the movies,
0:46:16 > 0:46:18play basketball, and just hang out.
0:46:21 > 0:46:24But someone who was never violent,
0:46:24 > 0:46:26someone who never raised their voice at anyone,
0:46:26 > 0:46:32someone who just respected everybody and liked those that knew him.
0:46:34 > 0:46:39'But in 2008, Shirwa Ahmed drove a vehicle loaded with explosives
0:46:39 > 0:46:44'into a Somali government compound and blew himself up,
0:46:44 > 0:46:45'killing 29 people.'
0:46:45 > 0:46:47It never came to mind that
0:46:47 > 0:46:52I would actually know someone who would commit a suicide bombing,
0:46:52 > 0:46:55because that was something that I'd normally just see
0:46:55 > 0:46:57and always be frightened about.
0:46:57 > 0:47:01The first day I actually saw Shirwa's face was on a newspaper.
0:47:01 > 0:47:03And...
0:47:05 > 0:47:06And I just broke down...
0:47:06 > 0:47:10I broke down and I just didn't know
0:47:10 > 0:47:13whether it was the same Shirwa I knew
0:47:13 > 0:47:15or whether this was somebody else.
0:47:17 > 0:47:20He was America's first ever suicide bomber.
0:47:21 > 0:47:25His remains were returned to his family in Minneapolis.
0:47:25 > 0:47:27They are now buried beneath the snow.
0:47:39 > 0:47:41Are you worried about
0:47:41 > 0:47:43young American Muslims going to Somalia,
0:47:43 > 0:47:46joining al-Shabaab and then coming back
0:47:46 > 0:47:50and forming sleeper cells on mainland America?
0:47:50 > 0:47:52Yes and they may have already done that
0:47:52 > 0:47:58and that is one of our missions to detect that and to prevent that.
0:47:58 > 0:48:03But we would be not doing our job if we weren't thinking ahead
0:48:03 > 0:48:06and looking at the possibility that actually some of these folks
0:48:06 > 0:48:10are coming back for planning here in the United States attacks.
0:48:10 > 0:48:13Why do you say some of them may already have done that?
0:48:13 > 0:48:16We have not identified all of those individuals
0:48:16 > 0:48:18that have travelled back to the United States
0:48:18 > 0:48:22so the question is, has that evolution of the group
0:48:22 > 0:48:26and their contacts with other Al-Qaeda affiliates
0:48:26 > 0:48:31matured to the point where the United States is the primary goal?
0:48:33 > 0:48:37In the years since 9/11, the man who designated America
0:48:37 > 0:48:40as Al-Qaeda's primary target, Osama Bin Laden,
0:48:40 > 0:48:42had neither been captured nor killed.
0:48:42 > 0:48:46He was still living in secret in the heart of Pakistan.
0:48:48 > 0:48:52In May 2011, all that changed.
0:48:53 > 0:48:56To me, this was way high risk.
0:48:56 > 0:48:59A series of intelligence fragments finally brought
0:48:59 > 0:49:03an elite squad of US Special Forces in the dead of night
0:49:03 > 0:49:07to a sleepy garrison town near Pakistan's capital Islamabad.
0:49:07 > 0:49:12Their mission, to capture or kill the man who President Obama believed was Al-Qaeda's leader.
0:49:12 > 0:49:15You've got two big risks going in.
0:49:15 > 0:49:18First, we haven't positively identified
0:49:18 > 0:49:19that this is Osama Bin Laden.
0:49:19 > 0:49:22So you're sacrificing potentially US men
0:49:22 > 0:49:25and the US reputation to go after an unknown target.
0:49:25 > 0:49:29Second, that the operation, if the intelligence is accurate,
0:49:29 > 0:49:30somehow ends up in disaster.
0:49:30 > 0:49:35In that case, potentially even to get in a firefight with Pakistani police or military.
0:49:35 > 0:49:39The President and his team watched the entire operation
0:49:39 > 0:49:42unfold from the White House but never breathed a word to Pakistan.
0:49:42 > 0:49:44They feared a leak
0:49:44 > 0:49:49and that Bin Laden might disappear before they could get him.
0:49:49 > 0:49:53The Navy Seals found Bin Laden in his bedroom.
0:49:53 > 0:49:56They shot him twice, once in the chest and once in the head.
0:49:56 > 0:49:57He was unarmed.
0:49:58 > 0:50:01I think the prospect of taking him alive was very low
0:50:01 > 0:50:05but the prospect that somebody said, "You can only take him dead"
0:50:05 > 0:50:08I think is outlandish. I don't buy that for a moment.
0:50:08 > 0:50:13But you're having a bunch of guys running around a hot compound at night with high walls,
0:50:13 > 0:50:15he's not going to come out but feet-first, I think.
0:50:20 > 0:50:23We can say to those families who have lost loved ones
0:50:23 > 0:50:25to Al-Qaeda's terror,
0:50:25 > 0:50:27justice has been done.
0:50:27 > 0:50:32CROWD CHANTS: USA!
0:50:34 > 0:50:37I was disturbed the day after to see Americans on the streets
0:50:37 > 0:50:39in the United States, cos it suggested to me
0:50:39 > 0:50:43first that people were too happy thinking this is the end of a book
0:50:43 > 0:50:46instead of just the end of a chapter. And second that we're celebrating
0:50:46 > 0:50:49the death of a human being. You don't celebrate death.
0:50:49 > 0:50:52But does the fact that Bin Laden was finally hiding
0:50:52 > 0:50:55in such a prominent location suggest
0:50:55 > 0:50:58that Pakistan cannot be trusted as an ally in this secret war?
0:51:00 > 0:51:02To suggest a national conspiracy in Pakistan...
0:51:02 > 0:51:07I mean, let's face it, they had been, not only embarrassed, but humiliated by this exercise.
0:51:07 > 0:51:12And I just don't think the leadership was involved in this kind of protection operation.
0:51:20 > 0:51:22Ten years on from the 9/11 attacks,
0:51:22 > 0:51:26the secret war on terror has changed beyond recognition.
0:51:26 > 0:51:30But even with Bin Laden dead, Al-Qaeda remains resilient.
0:51:34 > 0:51:38The American base at Guantanamo Bay is a stubborn reminder
0:51:38 > 0:51:41of how difficult and controversial the war has been.
0:51:43 > 0:51:47Within days of taking office, President Obama promised to close Guantanamo
0:51:47 > 0:51:53and with it an unedifying chapter in American history.
0:51:53 > 0:51:56And we then provide the process
0:51:56 > 0:52:00whereby Guantanamo will be closed no later than one year from now.
0:52:02 > 0:52:04But more than two years later,
0:52:04 > 0:52:09there are still around 170 detainees held without trial.
0:52:09 > 0:52:15Many Al-Qaeda's hardcore, some who've been ill-treated in the past.
0:52:15 > 0:52:19We were only allowed to film a few and forbidden to show their faces.
0:52:22 > 0:52:27Well, we've been with these guys for nine years. We know...
0:52:27 > 0:52:30We know who we picked off the battlefield,
0:52:30 > 0:52:32we know what type of guys they are
0:52:32 > 0:52:36as far as compliant and non-compliant.
0:52:36 > 0:52:39Just because they are compliant,
0:52:39 > 0:52:42doesn't mean that their ideology has not changed.
0:52:42 > 0:52:44They still want to kill our guards,
0:52:44 > 0:52:49they still want to disrupt our organisation,
0:52:49 > 0:52:52they're still in a fight.
0:52:52 > 0:52:54In the wake of Bin Laden's death,
0:52:54 > 0:52:58some former CIA chiefs maintain that it was the secret
0:52:58 > 0:53:01interrogation techniques that helped identify the courier
0:53:01 > 0:53:04who eventually led to his hideout. It proves, they argue,
0:53:04 > 0:53:08that the techniques were justified.
0:53:08 > 0:53:11The Obama White House dismisses this and says it was the result
0:53:11 > 0:53:16of multiple sources and years of painstaking intelligence work.
0:53:16 > 0:53:19But the death of Bin Laden hasn't solved
0:53:19 > 0:53:21the problem of Guantanamo Bay.
0:53:21 > 0:53:24President Obama pledged to try the detainees
0:53:24 > 0:53:27in civilian courts in America.
0:53:27 > 0:53:29But it's proved almost impossible.
0:53:29 > 0:53:31Much of the evidence obtained through torture
0:53:31 > 0:53:35and ill-treatment is likely to be thrown out.
0:53:35 > 0:53:38So now the President has ordered a resumption
0:53:38 > 0:53:40of military tribunals at Guantanamo.
0:53:40 > 0:53:43If Bin Laden had been brought back alive,
0:53:43 > 0:53:46this is probably the justice he would have faced.
0:53:46 > 0:53:50For the time being, it looks like Obama is stuck with Guantanamo
0:53:50 > 0:53:52and the legacy it represents.
0:53:52 > 0:53:55If you remember September 12th, 2001,
0:53:55 > 0:53:59there was an enormous reservoir of goodwill towards the United States
0:53:59 > 0:54:04because Americans had been victims of a terrible crime.
0:54:04 > 0:54:08But because we responded to that in a way that threw away our values,
0:54:08 > 0:54:13and we were viewed as hypocrites, we created Guantanamo Bay in Cuba
0:54:13 > 0:54:16and we said it was to preserve our way of life
0:54:16 > 0:54:20and yet the first thing we jettisoned was the rule of law.
0:54:20 > 0:54:23Hypocrisy breeds hatred
0:54:23 > 0:54:26and I'm afraid it has bred hatred around the world.
0:54:26 > 0:54:30And now people... large numbers of people around the world,
0:54:30 > 0:54:33despise us who used to feel sympathy for us.
0:54:36 > 0:54:39But despite the damage done to America's reputation
0:54:39 > 0:54:41by the abuses of the secret war,
0:54:41 > 0:54:46intelligence chiefs feel that the pressure on Al-Qaeda is paying off.
0:54:46 > 0:54:51They believe that ten years of steady attrition against Al-Qaeda
0:54:51 > 0:54:54has made a 9/11 type attack much less likely.
0:54:56 > 0:54:59It's much more difficult for them to conduct a spectacular.
0:54:59 > 0:55:00The way I summarise it is
0:55:00 > 0:55:02future attacks will be less complex,
0:55:02 > 0:55:04less well organised,
0:55:04 > 0:55:06less likely to succeed,
0:55:06 > 0:55:09less lethal if they do succeed,
0:55:09 > 0:55:11and more numerous.
0:55:13 > 0:55:17I mean, what is Al-Qaeda other than a terrorist organisation?
0:55:17 > 0:55:20I mean, what's the identity of Al-Qaeda globally?
0:55:20 > 0:55:24If you take terror away, they're pretty damn ordinary.
0:55:26 > 0:55:30The secret war has left its lasting mark on the conflict,
0:55:30 > 0:55:35but there's now a growing realisation within the intelligence community
0:55:35 > 0:55:40that hearts and minds are an increasingly critical front on the battleground.
0:55:40 > 0:55:45I think that making sure that we hold to our values,
0:55:45 > 0:55:49our ethical standards, our laws
0:55:49 > 0:55:54and are not tempted to go down the route
0:55:54 > 0:55:59which others in my view have made the profound mistake of going down
0:55:59 > 0:56:01means that in the longer run
0:56:01 > 0:56:04we will have a chance from that moral authority
0:56:04 > 0:56:09of addressing some of the underlying causes of these problems,
0:56:09 > 0:56:13looking for the long-term... the long-term political solutions.
0:56:13 > 0:56:15Is the war winnable?
0:56:15 > 0:56:17Not in a military sense.
0:56:17 > 0:56:21There won't be a Waterloo...
0:56:21 > 0:56:23an El Alamo.
0:56:23 > 0:56:28If we can get to a state where there are fewer attacks,
0:56:28 > 0:56:33less lethal attacks, fewer young people being drawn into this,
0:56:33 > 0:56:37less causes, resolution of the Palestinian question,
0:56:37 > 0:56:42less impetus for this activity,
0:56:42 > 0:56:46I think we can get to a stage where the threat is much reduced.
0:56:46 > 0:56:49But the terminology about winning the war on terror
0:56:49 > 0:56:52was not something that I ever subscribed to.
0:56:56 > 0:56:59This is the end of a chapter, it is not the end of a buck.
0:56:59 > 0:57:04And unless we maintain momentum, not only on the remnants,
0:57:04 > 0:57:07the deadly remnants of Al-Qaeda in Pakistan,
0:57:07 > 0:57:12but on the now successful affiliate organisations in places like Yemen,
0:57:12 > 0:57:14the Sahel in Africa, South-East Asia...
0:57:14 > 0:57:17I think we will lose unless we maintain momentum.
0:57:20 > 0:57:22In the end, most terrorist conflicts
0:57:22 > 0:57:27are either resolved by outright victory for one side or the other,
0:57:27 > 0:57:29or by governments talking to the terrorists
0:57:29 > 0:57:32and addressing the political roots of the conflict.
0:57:32 > 0:57:36A dramatic new way of thinking may now be required.
0:57:39 > 0:57:42Do we have to talk to Al-Qaeda?
0:57:42 > 0:57:46I would hope that people are trying to do so. I don't know.
0:57:46 > 0:57:52It's always better to talk to the people who are attacking you
0:57:52 > 0:57:54than attacking them, if you can.
0:57:54 > 0:57:55I don't know whether they are,
0:57:55 > 0:57:58but I would hope that people trying to reach out
0:57:58 > 0:58:02to the Taliban, to people on the edges of Al-Qaeda, to talk to them.
0:58:02 > 0:58:07Do you think that the terrorists, the Taliban, Al-Qaeda, will listen?
0:58:07 > 0:58:09I don't know.
0:58:09 > 0:58:11It doesn't mean to say it's not worth trying.
0:58:37 > 0:58:40Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd
0:58:40 > 0:58:43E-mail subtitling@bbc.co.uk