0:00:02 > 0:00:04Everybody has the capabilities
0:00:04 > 0:00:07to be the best, to do what they want,
0:00:07 > 0:00:09to go where they want.
0:00:09 > 0:00:12And at your age, there's lots and lots out there.
0:00:12 > 0:00:16So, if you work hard, this is where your dreams start, isn't it?
0:00:17 > 0:00:19# This is the day
0:00:19 > 0:00:21# This is the day
0:00:21 > 0:00:24# That the Lord has made That the Lord has made... #
0:00:24 > 0:00:29In 1998, BBC Northern Ireland broadcast Put To The Test,
0:00:29 > 0:00:32a child's-eye view of the 11-plus.
0:00:32 > 0:00:34# ..And be glad in it
0:00:34 > 0:00:36# This is the day that the Lord... #
0:00:36 > 0:00:40For months, the camera followed a group of children in North Belfast
0:00:40 > 0:00:45from practice papers, to exam nerves and results day.
0:00:45 > 0:00:48My ma and my daddy wanted me to do it.
0:00:48 > 0:00:51I thought I could have got a good grade out of it, so that's why I tried it.
0:00:51 > 0:00:53The film showed seven Ballysillan pupils
0:00:53 > 0:00:55competing for a place at grammar school
0:00:55 > 0:00:58and their hopes for a better life.
0:00:59 > 0:01:01I'm quite confident in him.
0:01:01 > 0:01:04I don't know about an A. Definitely a B.
0:01:04 > 0:01:07But it depends on the questions they're given.
0:01:07 > 0:01:09This was the first time Northern Ireland
0:01:09 > 0:01:12had seen the controversial transfer test
0:01:12 > 0:01:15from the perspective of teachers, parents and children.
0:01:17 > 0:01:20It was a very stressful year for all the age that we were.
0:01:20 > 0:01:21Susie.
0:01:21 > 0:01:23Tell me how, Susie!
0:01:23 > 0:01:25Tell me how!
0:01:25 > 0:01:28It was just massive to everybody, everybody wanted to do so well
0:01:28 > 0:01:30and just wanted to do the best for our wee school.
0:01:30 > 0:01:32Hands up those people who want to work over break.
0:01:32 > 0:01:3614 years after the award-winning documentary was shown,
0:01:36 > 0:01:40we revisit three of the pupils to find out, when the cameras stopped,
0:01:40 > 0:01:42what happened next?
0:01:42 > 0:01:45There are 22 pages in the test paper,
0:01:45 > 0:01:49and when I say turn over, please turn to page one
0:01:49 > 0:01:51and commence...
0:02:03 > 0:02:05The school in Ballysillan was really the only school
0:02:05 > 0:02:07that was prepared to let us in,
0:02:07 > 0:02:13and it was also the kind of school that we wanted to make a film in.
0:02:13 > 0:02:18It wasn't a middle-class school with a middle-class catchment.
0:02:18 > 0:02:23The film was sort of made by myself, Carlo Gebler,
0:02:23 > 0:02:26David Barker and Andrea McCartney.
0:02:26 > 0:02:31People decided that we could be trusted
0:02:31 > 0:02:33and should be let in, cos it is quite something
0:02:33 > 0:02:37to allow somebody to follow your child as they take this test.
0:02:37 > 0:02:42Filming in Ballysillan Primary was on the say-so of one man -
0:02:42 > 0:02:45the principal, Adrian Thompson.
0:02:45 > 0:02:46Morning.
0:02:46 > 0:02:48- ALL:- Good morning, Mr Thompson.
0:02:49 > 0:02:52Well, that was really pathetic!
0:02:52 > 0:02:57'It was 1997. I had been there ten years at that time.'
0:02:57 > 0:03:00There had been the problems with the paramilitaries,
0:03:00 > 0:03:03the problems with the political unrest.
0:03:03 > 0:03:07'We were the constant within the Ballysillan area.
0:03:07 > 0:03:10'The school was always there, and we were there for the children.'
0:03:10 > 0:03:13Hopefully, most of you will be doing the test,
0:03:13 > 0:03:15and we'll be working hard with you.
0:03:15 > 0:03:16Ashley.
0:03:16 > 0:03:18'Mr Thompson, you know,
0:03:18 > 0:03:22'he was very supportive through that whole process with us.'
0:03:22 > 0:03:26He was scary, but he was a brilliant headmaster.
0:03:26 > 0:03:30We have your daughter in tears, feeling very unwell.
0:03:30 > 0:03:32And will you come up and get her?
0:03:32 > 0:03:34The test, we all thought we were probably going to pass it.
0:03:34 > 0:03:37You know, we were only kids, innocent kids.
0:03:37 > 0:03:39We didn't know what it entailed, you know what I mean,
0:03:39 > 0:03:43how hard it was going to be for a child at that age.
0:03:44 > 0:03:47He's got the ability to do this test, I know he has
0:03:47 > 0:03:50and so does the teacher, but Paul has this thing,
0:03:50 > 0:03:53he says he wants to play, so he plays next door, outside, football.
0:03:53 > 0:03:57I says to him, football isn't going to get him an education.
0:03:57 > 0:04:00- You know, you can play football later on.- It will. Footballing will.
0:04:00 > 0:04:01It won't.
0:04:01 > 0:04:04Thinking back and looking back,
0:04:04 > 0:04:07I don't think I had much interest, when I think about it.
0:04:07 > 0:04:08Did I learn much? No.
0:04:08 > 0:04:11I was more interested in getting out to the playground
0:04:11 > 0:04:13for the 15 minutes to play football.
0:04:16 > 0:04:19Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for coming along.
0:04:19 > 0:04:22Really, today, it's to help you and help ourselves
0:04:22 > 0:04:28decide upon who is going to be taking the tests and who isn't.
0:04:28 > 0:04:31Based on the results that your child gets in these two tests,
0:04:31 > 0:04:34a grade will be awarded,
0:04:34 > 0:04:38and you'll find that the grammar schools, the criteria will be
0:04:38 > 0:04:42children with grade A will be selected first.
0:04:47 > 0:04:52I think our P7 class in 1997 was about 21.
0:04:52 > 0:04:57I'd say about one-third of the children in the Primary 7 year
0:04:57 > 0:05:00would be entered for the selection procedure.
0:05:00 > 0:05:02If I get an A, then I know I'm smart. If I get a B, I'm a wee bit smart.
0:05:02 > 0:05:07If I get a C, I'm a wee bit dopey. If I get a D, I know I'm dopey!
0:05:08 > 0:05:11See you later. See you Thursday.
0:05:11 > 0:05:15You look at those three there, you know, lovely children,
0:05:15 > 0:05:18you know, full of hope.
0:05:18 > 0:05:20Whole lives ahead of them.
0:05:21 > 0:05:25And you wanted them to succeed, you wanted them to do well,
0:05:25 > 0:05:31because they were prepared to put in the effort.
0:05:33 > 0:05:35We were talking about fractions...
0:05:35 > 0:05:38'Maths came naturally to me.'
0:05:38 > 0:05:39But the problem I had to face
0:05:39 > 0:05:42whenever I became a primary school teacher
0:05:42 > 0:05:46was that maths doesn't come naturally to many people.
0:05:46 > 0:05:49We can talk about... The simplest form of fraction is one-half.
0:05:49 > 0:05:52'I had to go back and see how many ways
0:05:52 > 0:05:55'I could introduce a different concept to a child
0:05:55 > 0:05:59'so that they could understand that concept and apply that concept.
0:06:00 > 0:06:04'And the most difficult thing is, of course, fractions.'
0:06:04 > 0:06:07- Victoria.- 'I think everybody struggled with maths.
0:06:07 > 0:06:08'Everybody in the class did.'
0:06:08 > 0:06:12But it was just... I'll never f... Watching it back scared me!
0:06:12 > 0:06:14And we...
0:06:17 > 0:06:19What do we do?
0:06:19 > 0:06:21We're ignoring it.
0:06:21 > 0:06:25There's a part where we're in the revision room with Mr Thompson.
0:06:25 > 0:06:28I'm just looking around myself, like, wasn't really interested.
0:06:28 > 0:06:33It looks like I was more interested in playing with a bit of paper on the desk.
0:06:33 > 0:06:34Look at it.
0:06:34 > 0:06:38By simply looking at it, we can... It is shouting at us.
0:06:38 > 0:06:40It's telling us exactly what it is!
0:06:40 > 0:06:42Come on, folks!
0:06:42 > 0:06:44This is Primary 4 work.
0:06:44 > 0:06:47Whenever you see the blank expression, you know,
0:06:47 > 0:06:49mm, there's nothing there, is there?!
0:06:49 > 0:06:52You know, they don't understand what I'm talking about.
0:06:52 > 0:06:55'No, Adrian, you're not doing it properly.'
0:06:55 > 0:06:59Can I take one-half and just simply move it across here and write down...
0:06:59 > 0:07:02OK, I'll write it as a decimal - one-half. Brilliant. Smashing.
0:07:02 > 0:07:06- No problem. Can I do that, Susie?- No, sir.- Why not?
0:07:06 > 0:07:08He was getting through to people,
0:07:08 > 0:07:11even though sometimes he would have raised his voice
0:07:11 > 0:07:13and it would have scared the life out of you!
0:07:15 > 0:07:17Tell me how, Susie!
0:07:17 > 0:07:18Tell me how!
0:07:18 > 0:07:21I would love to know how.
0:07:21 > 0:07:25When I watched that back, I just froze the way I did that day
0:07:25 > 0:07:27and went, I remember, I remember him shouting at me.
0:07:27 > 0:07:31I remember not even knowing what to say!
0:07:31 > 0:07:32It scared me. I'm shaking - look.
0:07:32 > 0:07:36I can remember it, sitting there and this room echoing
0:07:36 > 0:07:38and him shouting at me!
0:07:38 > 0:07:42You must tell me the process that I must use to do it.
0:07:42 > 0:07:44It's like drawing teeth.
0:07:45 > 0:07:47Embarrassing.
0:07:47 > 0:07:49HE CHUCKLES
0:07:54 > 0:07:58If you want to succeed in life,
0:07:58 > 0:08:00and you live in this part of the world,
0:08:00 > 0:08:04a way is to pass the transfer test/11-plus,
0:08:04 > 0:08:07go to grammar school, go to university.
0:08:07 > 0:08:13It is a route to prosperity and success and good fortune.
0:08:13 > 0:08:15And parents who know that...
0:08:17 > 0:08:20..therefore are extremely anxious
0:08:20 > 0:08:22for their children to have that opportunity.
0:08:22 > 0:08:25That's why it becomes something the whole family becomes involved in.
0:08:25 > 0:08:29My ma had actually got a tutor, who came...
0:08:29 > 0:08:32I think it was a Tuesday night he came for an hour.
0:08:32 > 0:08:35I used to be out in the street playing football.
0:08:35 > 0:08:37I used to see the car turning up, the suit,
0:08:37 > 0:08:39the fella in the suit would walk up the driveway,
0:08:39 > 0:08:41and I can remember a fight
0:08:41 > 0:08:44having to get me in to do the maths and the English.
0:08:44 > 0:08:47I felt under pressure because my ma was paying the tutor,
0:08:47 > 0:08:51so if I felt like I had to impress my mum, my dad and the tutor,
0:08:51 > 0:08:55and I didn't really want to let any of them down either, to be honest.
0:08:55 > 0:08:58You're going to do your best, aren't you? What have you to do?
0:08:58 > 0:09:00Read all the questions...what?
0:09:00 > 0:09:01Carefully.
0:09:02 > 0:09:04Are you nervous.
0:09:04 > 0:09:05No.
0:09:06 > 0:09:07Will you be nervous on the day?
0:09:07 > 0:09:08Yes!
0:09:13 > 0:09:16Felt sick with nerves,
0:09:16 > 0:09:20because this whole year had built up to this sort of day.
0:09:20 > 0:09:24You were up early and, you know, getting all ready,
0:09:24 > 0:09:27making sure you were in school early and, you know,
0:09:27 > 0:09:29just getting yourself all ready for it
0:09:29 > 0:09:33and making sure that nerves didn't get the better of you.
0:09:34 > 0:09:36Excuse me.
0:09:36 > 0:09:39Girls, very quietly, come on.
0:09:44 > 0:09:45Boys.
0:09:51 > 0:09:55Went in sat down, and that's whenever it hit us, I think.
0:09:55 > 0:09:57There are 22 pages in the test paper,
0:09:57 > 0:10:01and when I say turn over, please turn to page one
0:10:01 > 0:10:03and commence work at once.
0:10:03 > 0:10:04Sat in this room
0:10:04 > 0:10:08with this woman walking up and down with high heels clicking.
0:10:08 > 0:10:12I cannot answer any questions or help you in any way during the test.
0:10:14 > 0:10:16You may turn over and begin.
0:10:23 > 0:10:25I think I finished a little early.
0:10:25 > 0:10:27I remember looking round myself, thinking,
0:10:27 > 0:10:30"Why's everybody else still writing and I've finished so early?"
0:10:30 > 0:10:33I remember thinking, "This can't be good!"
0:10:33 > 0:10:35- Sir, it was easy.- Good, good.
0:10:35 > 0:10:38- There's nothing in it you didn't know?- No.
0:10:41 > 0:10:44The last two pages - horrible.
0:10:45 > 0:10:47Honestly. Horrible.
0:10:47 > 0:10:51The language used on the last two pages
0:10:51 > 0:10:57is totally inappropriate for children within our area
0:10:57 > 0:10:59and possibly even inappropriate
0:10:59 > 0:11:03for children who are doing GCSE within our area.
0:11:08 > 0:11:12SCHOOL BELL RINGS
0:11:12 > 0:11:13Education is a class issue.
0:11:13 > 0:11:16The more middle class you are,
0:11:16 > 0:11:19the more enabled you are by your culture to succeed at the 11-plus.
0:11:21 > 0:11:23In 1998, the transfer test
0:11:23 > 0:11:27was at the centre of an intense political debate.
0:11:27 > 0:11:29Opposing sides clashed
0:11:29 > 0:11:32over the best way to educate Northern Ireland's children.
0:11:32 > 0:11:33We are dealing with children
0:11:33 > 0:11:37and we have enough money to make sure that every child in Northern Ireland
0:11:37 > 0:11:40gets the best that we can afford, regardless of where they live,
0:11:40 > 0:11:44regardless of academic background and regardless of parents' income.
0:11:44 > 0:11:48I would have thought the selection for the appropriate school to go to
0:11:48 > 0:11:52would have been better on academic qualifications
0:11:52 > 0:11:55rather than on money or social standing.
0:11:55 > 0:11:57- You're telling me... - Don't shout me down. I'm speaking.
0:11:57 > 0:12:01I have taught with children that you have rejected for 40 years.
0:12:01 > 0:12:04- 40 years?- For 40 years, yes.
0:12:04 > 0:12:07We all, privately, off camera,
0:12:07 > 0:12:11had long conversations about the educational system
0:12:11 > 0:12:15and the fact that, you know, we have grammar schools then
0:12:15 > 0:12:17that were producing highly-educated people,
0:12:17 > 0:12:20and at the same time, we were...
0:12:20 > 0:12:23we had other kinds of schools that were producing people who,
0:12:23 > 0:12:26when they left school at 16, could not read or write properly,
0:12:26 > 0:12:27or at all.
0:12:27 > 0:12:31And, you know, how good is that kind of an educational system?
0:12:31 > 0:12:33Well, not very good at all, frankly.
0:12:33 > 0:12:35I was sick in the end, though, cos...
0:12:35 > 0:12:39Cos we've been friends since we were in nursery.
0:12:39 > 0:12:42Worked out, yes, wanted to go to college, wanted to do...
0:12:42 > 0:12:46become this big, best person that I could be.
0:12:46 > 0:12:48Just if you pass, you pass.
0:12:48 > 0:12:51That's what they keep saying - if you pass, you pass.
0:12:51 > 0:12:52If you don't pass, you fail.
0:12:54 > 0:12:57I tried to encourage some parents to allow their children
0:12:57 > 0:13:01to be entered for the selection test because I felt that
0:13:01 > 0:13:06being in Ballysillan all your life, being born in the area,
0:13:06 > 0:13:09growing up in the area, staying in the area until you're 18 or 19,
0:13:09 > 0:13:12then simply living in the area, getting married...
0:13:12 > 0:13:15it's not a healthy option, really.
0:13:15 > 0:13:18I wanted them to go out from the area,
0:13:18 > 0:13:21meet new people, meet new friends, have a different social network,
0:13:21 > 0:13:22get new horizons,
0:13:22 > 0:13:25rather than simply the restricting horizons
0:13:25 > 0:13:28which we had in the Ballysillan area at the time.
0:13:30 > 0:13:34# One more step along the world I go
0:13:34 > 0:13:36# One more step along the world I go... #
0:13:36 > 0:13:38Thanks.
0:13:38 > 0:13:40- Mummy and you will open it together. - I don't want to.
0:13:40 > 0:13:41Please open it.
0:13:41 > 0:13:46I refused to open it. I was...I was afraid of the grade.
0:13:46 > 0:13:48I was afraid I'd let my ma down,
0:13:48 > 0:13:51so I actually let my mother open it.
0:13:51 > 0:13:54I was like, "Ohh..." You know, nearly crying.
0:13:54 > 0:13:56My ma was like, "Don't worry about it."
0:13:56 > 0:13:58My daddy worked in the post office,
0:13:58 > 0:14:03so he was able to get my letter before it went into the postman's.
0:14:03 > 0:14:05D. Ah.
0:14:07 > 0:14:09Disappointment. Sure.
0:14:15 > 0:14:16D.
0:14:18 > 0:14:20I was a bit annoyed.
0:14:20 > 0:14:23I was annoyed at myself, I was disappointed at myself,
0:14:23 > 0:14:27because I felt that I could do better than that.
0:14:27 > 0:14:30I got a D, but I'm not disappointed, cos I tried it.
0:14:30 > 0:14:31It was really, really hard.
0:14:31 > 0:14:36You know, you'd prepared for all this work, worked so hard,
0:14:36 > 0:14:38and for my daddy to phone and say, "Look, you got a D,
0:14:38 > 0:14:41"but it's OK, you've done your best."
0:14:41 > 0:14:43But deep down, you didn't feel like you did.
0:14:43 > 0:14:46Deep down, it made you feel that you're stupid, you know,
0:14:46 > 0:14:49you got a D, where are you going to go now?
0:14:49 > 0:14:53It wasn't so much the failing and not getting to go to a good school.
0:14:53 > 0:14:57It was letting the teachers down who had tried so hard with you,
0:14:57 > 0:14:59and letting my mother down, letting my father down,
0:14:59 > 0:15:00paying the money for the tutor.
0:15:00 > 0:15:02I felt more I'd let people down
0:15:02 > 0:15:05more than losing the grade to get to a good school.
0:15:07 > 0:15:10Just two days after the results arrived,
0:15:10 > 0:15:13Put To The Test was broadcast on BBC Northern Ireland.
0:15:14 > 0:15:18Within the next week, I was getting letters from many people
0:15:18 > 0:15:21who had viewed the programme and said, you know,
0:15:21 > 0:15:23they really thought it was an excellent programme
0:15:23 > 0:15:27and they thought the school had been doing a very good job
0:15:27 > 0:15:28with the children.
0:15:28 > 0:15:29But after that,
0:15:29 > 0:15:32some people felt that to air views that perhaps
0:15:32 > 0:15:35our system is not satisfying the needs of all children
0:15:35 > 0:15:37was not the right thing to do.
0:15:37 > 0:15:40The Education & Library Board were horrible to him
0:15:40 > 0:15:45and called him into their office and banged desks
0:15:45 > 0:15:46and stamped feet.
0:15:49 > 0:15:52Just think, I've got to do it all over again next year!
0:15:52 > 0:15:55Two of the Ballysillan children made it to grammar school.
0:15:55 > 0:15:59Paul, Ashley and Victoria went to secondary schools close by.
0:16:00 > 0:16:01I went to the Boys' Model.
0:16:01 > 0:16:04Actually, it was the best school I could have went to.
0:16:04 > 0:16:05It was brilliant.
0:16:05 > 0:16:09Went there for six years and I really enjoyed it.
0:16:09 > 0:16:10Going through school,
0:16:10 > 0:16:14I think the Boys' Model taught me as much as I could take in.
0:16:14 > 0:16:17I felt they were very good.
0:16:17 > 0:16:21People made out the Girls' and Boys' Model was just a stupid school,
0:16:21 > 0:16:24people don't do 11-pluses, that's where they go.
0:16:24 > 0:16:27You know, and then we were put in with that sort of category,
0:16:27 > 0:16:29so you thought you weren't going to do well, so why try?
0:16:29 > 0:16:31Do you know what I mean?
0:16:31 > 0:16:35You're knocking a child doing the 11-plus before they even start.
0:16:35 > 0:16:37I was very easily distracted, very easily led,
0:16:37 > 0:16:41and just sort of lost interest then
0:16:41 > 0:16:42after a while.
0:16:42 > 0:16:45I'd rather have went out with my friends than, you know,
0:16:45 > 0:16:48than sat in the house with my head in a book.
0:16:48 > 0:16:51Didn't really get much from the Girls' Model, at all.
0:16:51 > 0:16:54I passed my GCSEs, I passed them all,
0:16:54 > 0:16:57but not with flying colours or A's or B's,
0:16:57 > 0:16:59but a pass is a pass.
0:16:59 > 0:17:03I passed my PE, I passed my English in sixth year,
0:17:03 > 0:17:06GCSE, that was a resit.
0:17:06 > 0:17:08I got a C in my maths.
0:17:08 > 0:17:10My history, I missed the second paper,
0:17:10 > 0:17:12so I didn't get a grade in my history.
0:17:12 > 0:17:14And my technology, I passed.
0:17:14 > 0:17:16I could have applied for a university,
0:17:16 > 0:17:20but I just thought, "No, I think that's my learning done in schools,
0:17:20 > 0:17:23"I think I'm going to go and try something else now."
0:17:25 > 0:17:29Paul, Ashley and Victoria left school before their A-levels.
0:17:29 > 0:17:32Eight years on, a lot has changed.
0:17:35 > 0:17:36'I have about...
0:17:36 > 0:17:40'Well, from I was 16, I'd say about eight years' experience
0:17:40 > 0:17:42'of working with young people.'
0:17:42 > 0:17:43SHE CHUCKLES
0:17:43 > 0:17:46Right, well, write it down and try and work it out first.
0:17:46 > 0:17:50'I'm a support worker for the APP Project,
0:17:50 > 0:17:53'so it's achieving personal potential'
0:17:53 > 0:17:57and it's basically an after-schools project for young kids,
0:17:57 > 0:17:59P6 and P7.
0:18:02 > 0:18:06'I mean, it's not a job to me. It's something that I love doing.'
0:18:06 > 0:18:07Ashley.
0:18:07 > 0:18:11Obviously watching the programme, seeing I was at that stage,
0:18:11 > 0:18:14what was I like when I was their age, it actually shocked me.
0:18:14 > 0:18:18You know, I had very low confidence, self-esteem,
0:18:18 > 0:18:21and I was just sitting there in the room with my mouth hanging open.
0:18:21 > 0:18:23..Right, OK, don't panic. What is it?
0:18:23 > 0:18:27'My whole sort of personality has completely changed from then.
0:18:27 > 0:18:30'I've really built my confidence up and my self-esteem
0:18:30 > 0:18:32'and people helped me do that.'
0:18:32 > 0:18:37So, I really wanted to go into youth work to help other young people.
0:18:37 > 0:18:41Victoria manages a busy Belfast bookies.
0:18:41 > 0:18:43I'm working for McLean's bookmakers.
0:18:43 > 0:18:45OK, Dougie.
0:18:45 > 0:18:48I was a cashier, applied for there, I got the job,
0:18:48 > 0:18:50and now up to managing it.
0:18:52 > 0:18:55You're responsible for everything in this whole shop,
0:18:55 > 0:18:58down to the machines, down to the customers,
0:18:58 > 0:19:01down to making sure every docket's filled, pay ins, money.
0:19:01 > 0:19:04You're responsible for your other members of staff.
0:19:04 > 0:19:08Everything that goes on in this shop falls down to the manager.
0:19:10 > 0:19:15When it comes to running a business, Victoria has previous form.
0:19:15 > 0:19:19At just 16, the young entrepreneur had her own furniture shop.
0:19:19 > 0:19:22I stood on my own two feet and it helped me mature loads.
0:19:22 > 0:19:25'If you want it, you'll get it.'
0:19:25 > 0:19:26All right, Joe, thank you.
0:19:27 > 0:19:31I joined the British Army, I was a paratrooper.
0:19:31 > 0:19:34That's, like, the elite group to join in the Army.
0:19:34 > 0:19:37I went through my first phase training
0:19:37 > 0:19:41and then I got a problem with my knees.
0:19:41 > 0:19:44I can remember having to go and see the Army medical doctor
0:19:44 > 0:19:47and he told me, "It's not good news.
0:19:47 > 0:19:49"We're going to be sending you home."
0:19:50 > 0:19:54I can remember just saying to myself, "Where do I go from here?"
0:19:54 > 0:19:57I was just completely lost again as to where to go.
0:19:59 > 0:20:03After leaving secondary school, Ashley and Victoria both got NVQs.
0:20:06 > 0:20:09But it's their personal qualities, not qualifications,
0:20:09 > 0:20:11that have made the difference.
0:20:11 > 0:20:14My strength would be, you know, working with people...
0:20:16 > 0:20:18'..being a good listener,
0:20:18 > 0:20:24'being able to communicate properly, and having patience for people...'
0:20:24 > 0:20:25Cos we need to be tidying up soon.
0:20:25 > 0:20:27'..understanding people.'
0:20:27 > 0:20:29What you're going to have to do
0:20:29 > 0:20:32is you're going to have to add all the saved people up.
0:20:32 > 0:20:36I didn't really learn any of this until I left school.
0:20:37 > 0:20:38'I was sitting doing cashiering,
0:20:38 > 0:20:41'picking up things off the manager that was there with me,
0:20:41 > 0:20:43'and I was like, "I want to do that."
0:20:43 > 0:20:45'Within six months, I'd done my manager's test
0:20:45 > 0:20:47'and I was doing managing.
0:20:47 > 0:20:51'You know, if I aim for it, I will get it.'
0:20:51 > 0:20:54You can always better yourself in a job. Always.
0:20:54 > 0:21:00I have to express that one-half either as tenths or hundredths
0:21:00 > 0:21:02or thousandths.
0:21:02 > 0:21:06'I was never really good at maths in school.
0:21:07 > 0:21:10'It just takes that something to click and you've got it.'
0:21:10 > 0:21:12But it just shows you can turn it around.
0:21:12 > 0:21:17Zero, then three. You always start across, so you go along the corridor
0:21:17 > 0:21:18and then up the stairs, right?
0:21:18 > 0:21:21'I enjoy helping them with their maths
0:21:21 > 0:21:23'and trying to explain what things mean.'
0:21:23 > 0:21:27It's not just about going, "You do this and that's the answer."
0:21:27 > 0:21:29It's about explaining to them, getting it into their heads,
0:21:29 > 0:21:31so that they can go, "Oh, yes. I understand."
0:21:31 > 0:21:35- You always go along the corridor. - That's minus four.
0:21:35 > 0:21:38'I think Mr Thompson would probably be quite...
0:21:38 > 0:21:42'probably proud that I've came this sort of route.'
0:21:47 > 0:21:50How do you think Mr Thompson would cope in a bookies?
0:21:50 > 0:21:52Very well.
0:21:53 > 0:21:54He'd clear the place.
0:21:58 > 0:22:01Paul's qualifications came a little bit later.
0:22:01 > 0:22:05With them, a new job, and a new purpose in his life.
0:22:09 > 0:22:11The first day I walked in and I used the welder
0:22:11 > 0:22:14and I've seen the type of work it does
0:22:14 > 0:22:17and, you know, how it joins metals and things like that together,
0:22:17 > 0:22:20I liked it straight away and I thought to myself...
0:22:20 > 0:22:22I've never walked into a job like that
0:22:22 > 0:22:25where something's clicked in my head, thinking, "This is what I want to do."
0:22:25 > 0:22:27Because I went back and learned and got the qualifications,
0:22:27 > 0:22:30I think it's opened up all these jobs to me and why I have a job now.
0:22:31 > 0:22:34I'd see myself being a welder, probably, for the rest of my life.
0:22:37 > 0:22:39Ten years after the original documentary,
0:22:39 > 0:22:42the Department of Education axed the 11-plus.
0:22:44 > 0:22:47No amount of shouting, sniping, bully tactics,
0:22:47 > 0:22:51either in this chamber, on the sidelines, in the media,
0:22:51 > 0:22:54will stop the progressive reform process
0:22:54 > 0:22:56that's underway and moving forward.
0:22:56 > 0:22:58I will not be swayed.
0:22:58 > 0:23:01But the very next year, two new tests,
0:23:01 > 0:23:03with up to five papers, set by the grammar schools,
0:23:03 > 0:23:05replaced it.
0:23:06 > 0:23:08Nothing changes, really.
0:23:08 > 0:23:10We still have the grammar schools
0:23:10 > 0:23:13making their selection through tests.
0:23:15 > 0:23:17I have to keep faith with my children
0:23:17 > 0:23:19and I have to ensure that each child in my school
0:23:19 > 0:23:23has the best opportunity possible...
0:23:23 > 0:23:27to do the test, well-prepared,
0:23:27 > 0:23:29to be selected for grammar school,
0:23:29 > 0:23:31and I will continue to keep faith with that.
0:23:31 > 0:23:33But that doesn't mean I agree with it.
0:23:35 > 0:23:38Whilst selection is important and there must be selection,
0:23:38 > 0:23:44I've always felt that the age of 10, 11, is too young for selection.
0:23:44 > 0:23:47I'm a great believer that the age of 13, 14,
0:23:47 > 0:23:51is a better time to make selection of children
0:23:51 > 0:23:54to determine their academic future.
0:23:55 > 0:23:57Who's that?!
0:23:57 > 0:24:02Well, now I'm married - I'm married two years coming.
0:24:02 > 0:24:06I've had a wee baby boy six months ago, Alan,
0:24:06 > 0:24:09and we're happy as Larry.
0:24:09 > 0:24:11Couldn't ask for any better.
0:24:11 > 0:24:13The way I felt when I got my result,
0:24:13 > 0:24:16I would not want my son feeling like that,
0:24:16 > 0:24:18cos it's the worst feeling in the world.
0:24:18 > 0:24:22It feels like you've failed the whole start of your life
0:24:22 > 0:24:25and I do not want him to feel like that.
0:24:25 > 0:24:28If I'd have gone to, you know, maybe a grammar school,
0:24:28 > 0:24:30I probably...
0:24:30 > 0:24:32Well, like to think
0:24:32 > 0:24:35that I maybe would have done a bit better in school,
0:24:35 > 0:24:37maybe would have had more qualifications,
0:24:37 > 0:24:40maybe, you know, better grades
0:24:40 > 0:24:43and maybe took a different path.
0:24:43 > 0:24:48I don't know, because I was always involved in the youth and community work anyway,
0:24:48 > 0:24:50and that's a passion for me,
0:24:50 > 0:24:55so I think I always would have been there, you know, doing that.
0:24:55 > 0:25:00I'd say had I went to BRA or one of the other good grammar schools,
0:25:00 > 0:25:02obviously it's better standard of teaching, they say,
0:25:02 > 0:25:06so I think maybe I would have ended up in university
0:25:06 > 0:25:10or better grades, which would have enabled me to go to university
0:25:10 > 0:25:12and probably got a better job.
0:25:12 > 0:25:14But I'm...
0:25:14 > 0:25:16I say better job - I'm happy enough with the job I have now,
0:25:16 > 0:25:18so, you know...
0:25:20 > 0:25:25I don't care. It doesn't bother me now. I've got what I've got.
0:25:25 > 0:25:27You know, I wouldn't change it for the world.
0:25:27 > 0:25:30# ..Keep me travelling along with you... #
0:25:30 > 0:25:31D. Ahh...
0:25:31 > 0:25:36The maturity of the children which they demonstrate at the end
0:25:36 > 0:25:39is the best thing in the film.
0:25:40 > 0:25:42D.
0:25:42 > 0:25:45I mean, I sat the exam myself and failed it, abysmally.
0:25:47 > 0:25:49We said to people, this is something
0:25:49 > 0:25:52that lots and lots of people have been through
0:25:52 > 0:25:56and it is a good thing to... put it in the light
0:25:56 > 0:25:59and let people see and know what it is like,
0:25:59 > 0:26:02because it's...it's part of us,
0:26:02 > 0:26:05and they agreed with that.
0:26:05 > 0:26:09'I know the young people I've worked with before, you know,
0:26:09 > 0:26:11'they've came in and they've said to me,
0:26:11 > 0:26:14'"I can't do this, I left school, you know, when I was 16."
0:26:14 > 0:26:19'And I just say to them, "Listen, I left school when I was 16.
0:26:20 > 0:26:24'It doesn't stop anybody, no matter where you're from,'
0:26:24 > 0:26:28whether you're from the worst estate in, you know, in Belfast
0:26:28 > 0:26:31or whether you're from the Malone Road.
0:26:31 > 0:26:32It doesn't matter.
0:26:32 > 0:26:35It's about your capabilities and what you do with them.
0:26:39 > 0:26:42I think anyone that gets a D or a fail in the 11-plus,
0:26:42 > 0:26:45I think they can do pretty much whatever they want to be anyway,
0:26:45 > 0:26:46or whatever they want to do.
0:26:53 > 0:26:56I soldiered on in Ballysillan, enjoying every minute of it,
0:26:56 > 0:26:59'up until 2008,
0:26:59 > 0:27:01'and I retired.'
0:27:03 > 0:27:05I've come up here to Donegal.
0:27:06 > 0:27:09One always wants to know what's happened
0:27:09 > 0:27:11to the children you had in your care,
0:27:11 > 0:27:16for whom you were the steward, more or less, for their future,
0:27:16 > 0:27:21'and there isn't any child that I have looked at him and say,
0:27:21 > 0:27:22'"I can't remember him.
0:27:22 > 0:27:24'"I can't remember her."'
0:27:24 > 0:27:26I did love my time in Ballysillan
0:27:26 > 0:27:30and if I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't change a thing.
0:27:30 > 0:27:31I really wouldn't.
0:27:33 > 0:27:35# ..We will rejoice
0:27:35 > 0:27:38# We will rejoice and be glad in it
0:27:38 > 0:27:42# And be glad in it This is the day... #
0:27:42 > 0:27:44'Yeah, I think most people did write you off.
0:27:44 > 0:27:47'You weren't accepted in these good schools if you got a D,
0:27:47 > 0:27:48'you know what I mean,
0:27:48 > 0:27:51'so that there's hard for a young child of ten, 11, to take in.'
0:27:51 > 0:27:55You know, "You're not good enough for school, you're not good enough
0:27:55 > 0:27:58'"to wear our uniform, so lift yourself up and get on with it.
0:27:58 > 0:28:01'You put on a Girls' Model uniform and you go to school
0:28:01 > 0:28:03'and you do your work.'
0:28:03 > 0:28:05But I think out of us all, we've all done quite well.
0:28:05 > 0:28:09We're all in jobs, you know, we're all working, you know what I mean.
0:28:09 > 0:28:11It's... We've not all done bad.
0:28:11 > 0:28:15'If you want it, aim for it and you'll get it.
0:28:15 > 0:28:18'Aim high and you'll get there.'
0:28:18 > 0:28:19There's me!
0:28:20 > 0:28:21Do you know me?!
0:28:23 > 0:28:27# ..You'll be telling me the way, I know
0:28:27 > 0:28:31# And it's from the old I travel to the new
0:28:31 > 0:28:35# Keep me travelling along with you
0:28:35 > 0:28:39# Give me courage when the world is rough
0:28:39 > 0:28:43# Keep me loving though the world is tough
0:28:43 > 0:28:46# Leap and sing in all I do
0:28:46 > 0:28:50# Keep me travelling along with you. #