0:00:02 > 0:00:06In 1983, BBC Northern Ireland broadcast the documentary
0:00:06 > 0:00:12Old Scores - the remarkable story behind an unremarkable photograph.
0:00:12 > 0:00:13'They were all friends...'
0:00:14 > 0:00:18..and, er, there was never any animosity at all.
0:00:21 > 0:00:24Star of the Sea was a successful youth football team.
0:00:26 > 0:00:31By 1983 two players had served time for loyalist paramilitary offences,
0:00:31 > 0:00:36while another, Bobby Sands, had died on hunger strike.
0:00:38 > 0:00:42To be honest, I never thought he would end up as he did.
0:00:42 > 0:00:44It's just hard to believe. Just, the Troubles brought it on.
0:00:44 > 0:00:47I don't blame anybody, I just blame the Troubles.
0:00:47 > 0:00:49For the first time,
0:00:49 > 0:00:53Bobby Sands' teammates spoke about their utopian dream team
0:00:53 > 0:00:57and how the Troubles had scattered and shattered Star of the Sea.
0:00:57 > 0:01:00Well, I left Northern Ireland because of the situation.
0:01:00 > 0:01:04Because I was a Protestant playing in a Catholic youth club,
0:01:04 > 0:01:07living in a Catholic area. All my mates were Catholic.
0:01:07 > 0:01:12If the people outside the club had been like us inside the club...
0:01:12 > 0:01:14there'd have been a lot of people still alive today.
0:01:15 > 0:01:18Now the programme's reporter, Olenka Frenkiel,
0:01:18 > 0:01:21has come back to Northern Ireland.
0:01:21 > 0:01:24She'll meet three of the surviving team members
0:01:24 > 0:01:29to find out, after the cameras were switched off, what happened next.
0:01:44 > 0:01:48Olenka Frenkiel had come to Belfast in the late 1970s
0:01:48 > 0:01:50as a young BBC reporter.
0:01:51 > 0:01:53'I arrived here and I knew almost nothing.'
0:01:53 > 0:01:58I knew what I'd read in the papers but every day I was reminded of how
0:01:58 > 0:02:01little I understood and how little I knew, which is what made this
0:02:01 > 0:02:05place is so wonderful for me because every day I was learning so much.
0:02:06 > 0:02:11She heard about a photograph of a football team taken in 1969.
0:02:11 > 0:02:15The team was based at the Catholic Star of the Sea Youth Club,
0:02:15 > 0:02:18although you didn't have to be a Catholic to play there,
0:02:18 > 0:02:20just a good footballer.
0:02:20 > 0:02:23One of them was Bobby Sands.
0:02:26 > 0:02:29'What really mattered was this group of young boys,'
0:02:29 > 0:02:32who had played in this team
0:02:32 > 0:02:37before the sectarian influences had divided them,
0:02:37 > 0:02:41and an attempt to try and understand the context
0:02:41 > 0:02:46that changed their lives and this place so much.
0:02:46 > 0:02:50So, that photograph, with those of faces in it,
0:02:50 > 0:02:54were the subject of the film.
0:02:54 > 0:02:58If ever a single photo epitomised the tragedy of the Troubles
0:02:58 > 0:03:02and its effect on young lives, this is it.
0:03:03 > 0:03:0815-year-old Ray McCord, a Protestant, played at centre half.
0:03:08 > 0:03:10'Two or three times a year we used to go down to Dublin,'
0:03:10 > 0:03:12play teams from the South.
0:03:12 > 0:03:16And they'd have sang The Sash with us going down to Dublin
0:03:16 > 0:03:19and we'd have sang rebel songs and...
0:03:19 > 0:03:21it was just a singsong.
0:03:21 > 0:03:24It was just, probably, songs that their parents had taught them
0:03:24 > 0:03:25and our parents had taught us.
0:03:26 > 0:03:31The goalkeeper, Dessie Black, was 15 years old and a Catholic.
0:03:31 > 0:03:36Willie Caldwell was also 15 but a Protestant.
0:03:38 > 0:03:41We used to play football over, there used to be a big field.
0:03:41 > 0:03:45In Greencastle there used to be a big area, it's all knocked down now.
0:03:45 > 0:03:49- Where is it? Round Mill Road. - Up where there's a new,
0:03:49 > 0:03:51it's all housing estates now but it used to be a big field.
0:03:51 > 0:03:54We used to play football there, like, street against street,
0:03:54 > 0:03:55and I used to play against his street,
0:03:55 > 0:03:59- and Dessie used to run off with the ball crying if he got beaten! - THEY LAUGH
0:03:59 > 0:04:02- You used to win all the time! - Took the ball home!
0:04:02 > 0:04:05Bobby Sands was the left back,
0:04:05 > 0:04:10his best friend in the team was centre forward, and fellow Catholic, Tommy O'Neill.
0:04:10 > 0:04:14'I was dedicated to the football, he was more dedicated to the running.
0:04:14 > 0:04:18'Cross-country and escaping. He loved that.'
0:04:18 > 0:04:19I loved the football.
0:04:19 > 0:04:21He took his turn, I took my turn.
0:04:21 > 0:04:23He wanted to go running, I'd go running with him.
0:04:23 > 0:04:26I wanted to play football, he'd play with me.
0:04:26 > 0:04:28If we played table tennis, he'd have played me.
0:04:28 > 0:04:31What he done, I done, what I'd done, he done.
0:04:31 > 0:04:34Just...like brother, two brothers.
0:04:35 > 0:04:39Terry Nichol, inside right, was another Protestant teenager
0:04:39 > 0:04:41who'd made it onto the Star of the Sea team.
0:04:43 > 0:04:47Just football. I'd have paid for anybody.
0:04:47 > 0:04:50I'd have kicked about in the street if I wasn't getting a football match.
0:04:50 > 0:04:54Even with kids two or three years younger than me.
0:04:54 > 0:04:55As long as you're out playing football.
0:05:02 > 0:05:06Most of the Star of the Seas players came from Rathcoole,
0:05:06 > 0:05:09a housing estate five miles north of Belfast.
0:05:11 > 0:05:16'Rathcoole had started as this rather utopian idea of a housing estate'
0:05:16 > 0:05:20where Catholics and Protestants would live absolutely together,
0:05:20 > 0:05:24mingled, and they really did happily do so.
0:05:24 > 0:05:29'And...this is where most of the people in the team grew up.
0:05:29 > 0:05:32'In, what they describe as,'
0:05:32 > 0:05:37a completely mixed environment without any sectarian concern.
0:05:50 > 0:05:56What's amazing to me is how well kept it looks now, so many years later.
0:05:56 > 0:06:00It's not at all the way I would have imagined it would have developed
0:06:00 > 0:06:02when I was here last time.
0:06:02 > 0:06:05It looks much more prosperous,
0:06:05 > 0:06:08much better looked after than I would have ever thought.
0:06:16 > 0:06:20On The 11th Night, when we were lighting bonfires,
0:06:20 > 0:06:21there was two families on our street,
0:06:21 > 0:06:25one was a Protestant family and another one was a Catholic family,
0:06:25 > 0:06:29and they collected the money from the kids,
0:06:29 > 0:06:31and the kids' parents would have parties for us.
0:06:31 > 0:06:33'And this happened every year,
0:06:33 > 0:06:36'even the Troubles was, were going for a couple of years.'
0:06:36 > 0:06:39- Terrible moustache! - HE LAUGHS
0:06:39 > 0:06:41Looking back, the style of the hair!
0:06:41 > 0:06:43The hairstyles and everything, you know?
0:06:43 > 0:06:47Did we really look like that, you know?
0:06:47 > 0:06:53But, you know, what I see there is...we were all friends.
0:06:53 > 0:06:55We belonged to a team
0:06:55 > 0:07:02which was the best junior soccer team in Northern Ireland.
0:07:03 > 0:07:05Local GP, Dr Liam Conlon,
0:07:05 > 0:07:09set up Star of the Sea Football and Youth Club in 1964,
0:07:09 > 0:07:11a mile from Rathcoole.
0:07:12 > 0:07:15Dr Conlon wanted a place where Catholic and Protestant boys
0:07:15 > 0:07:18could meet, play sports and make friends,
0:07:18 > 0:07:21just as Dessie Black and Willie Caldwell did.
0:07:22 > 0:07:24Well, I think, basically,
0:07:24 > 0:07:27it was through being in Star of the Sea, through the youth club...
0:07:27 > 0:07:28The Star of the Sea...
0:07:28 > 0:07:31Although I knew Dessie a bit before I joined.
0:07:33 > 0:07:37More than 40 years after their footballing days at Star of the Sea,
0:07:37 > 0:07:40Dessie Black and Willie Caldwell are still friends -
0:07:40 > 0:07:43a friendship they owe to Dr Conlon.
0:07:43 > 0:07:44'Anyone was welcome.
0:07:44 > 0:07:49'When you went down to the club, you weren't asked were you Catholic or Protestant.'
0:07:49 > 0:07:52You came in, if you wanted to take part in what was going on
0:07:52 > 0:07:57you signed your book, you paid your subs and you carried on.
0:07:57 > 0:08:00In fact, Liam Conlon was Star of the Sea.
0:08:00 > 0:08:03He was going to keep you safe, know what I mean?
0:08:03 > 0:08:05Cos he would never see us walking home or anything,
0:08:05 > 0:08:08he always made sure we get a bus home or something like that.
0:08:08 > 0:08:11You knew if you had a problem, like, you'd go and see him.
0:08:14 > 0:08:20The Troubles exploded in 1969 - the same year the photo was taken.
0:08:20 > 0:08:22Protestant families,
0:08:22 > 0:08:24forced out of their homes in other parts of Belfast,
0:08:24 > 0:08:26moved into Rathcoole.
0:08:26 > 0:08:30Catholic families there were moved out,
0:08:30 > 0:08:33as Olenka Frenkiel explained an Old Scores.
0:08:33 > 0:08:37'Loyalist vigilantes took over, patrolling the estate,
0:08:37 > 0:08:41'and Catholics living in Rathcoole told they'd be safer elsewhere.
0:08:41 > 0:08:45'If they refused to budge their windows were broken
0:08:45 > 0:08:47'and their homes attacked.
0:08:47 > 0:08:51'By 1974, most of them had left.'
0:08:52 > 0:08:57Families, like those of Bobby Sands and Tommy O'Neill,
0:08:57 > 0:09:00has left Rathcoole long before the documentary was made.
0:09:02 > 0:09:07They didn't even come to the door. They hadn't just got the guts to come to the door.
0:09:07 > 0:09:10Just threw bottles through the window, stones through the window.
0:09:10 > 0:09:12Mother's hands - she's still got the scars...
0:09:14 > 0:09:15..for no reason at all.
0:09:16 > 0:09:19We just didn't bother with politics then.
0:09:19 > 0:09:21So what did your family do?
0:09:21 > 0:09:23- Had to move.- That night?
0:09:23 > 0:09:27Next day. Moved to Moyard. From there, to Ardoyne. Stayed there.
0:09:32 > 0:09:34We've lived in Ardoyne since it.
0:09:34 > 0:09:40You could try to stop them and several times we did.
0:09:40 > 0:09:44The families facing us one night, to try to put them out,
0:09:44 > 0:09:47and we tried to stop them but you could stop them that night
0:09:47 > 0:09:50and they'd only come back the next night or come back when you went to bed.
0:09:50 > 0:09:54So there was very little you could do.
0:09:59 > 0:10:04By the early 1980s, life for the boys in the photograph had changed utterly.
0:10:06 > 0:10:07Goalkeeper, Dessie Black,
0:10:07 > 0:10:11left Northern Ireland for Guernsey in 1972.
0:10:12 > 0:10:16Soon his teammate Willie Caldwell joined him.
0:10:16 > 0:10:19Well, I left Northern Ireland because of the situation
0:10:19 > 0:10:23because I was a Protestant playing in a Catholic youth club,
0:10:23 > 0:10:25living in a Catholic area. All my mates were Catholic.
0:10:25 > 0:10:29The Catholic lads stayed behind but, what it meant,
0:10:29 > 0:10:32socialising with the Protestants and socialising with the Catholics,
0:10:32 > 0:10:35it meant I was going to areas where I shouldn't, I shouldn't go.
0:10:35 > 0:10:38I was going to, like, discotheques on the New Lodge Road,
0:10:38 > 0:10:40which is a Catholic area, one night,
0:10:40 > 0:10:43the next night, going out with Protestant mates.
0:10:43 > 0:10:45Going to an area, which is just three streets away,
0:10:45 > 0:10:49Tigers Bay, going to Loyalist clubs in that area.
0:10:49 > 0:10:51And, I mean, if someone had have seen,
0:10:51 > 0:10:54I mean, they'd have been thinking, "What's this bloke trying to do?",
0:10:54 > 0:10:56I'm, you know, breaking all the rules.
0:10:56 > 0:10:58And, obviously, you don't want to lose friends
0:10:58 > 0:11:01so I thought the best thing for me is get out.
0:11:01 > 0:11:02So I left.
0:11:03 > 0:11:07Raymond McCord also tried to get out.
0:11:07 > 0:11:10He had set his sights on Australia.
0:11:10 > 0:11:11'There's no work here.'
0:11:11 > 0:11:14I've been paid off twice in the last two years,
0:11:14 > 0:11:16the two firms I've worked for.
0:11:16 > 0:11:21First firm closed down and the shipyard are laying men off,
0:11:21 > 0:11:26and also because of the Troubles, because there's no end to them.
0:11:26 > 0:11:33And...the politicians...they, they aren't doing much.
0:11:33 > 0:11:36Terry Nichol was convicted of possession of handguns
0:11:36 > 0:11:38and spent three years in the Maze Prison.
0:11:38 > 0:11:42After release he headed to the US,
0:11:42 > 0:11:44where the documentary makers filmed him.
0:11:44 > 0:11:47'I just didn't want to play for them any more.'
0:11:47 > 0:11:50Inside the club it was usually all right, you'd get a snide remark,
0:11:50 > 0:11:52or you'd overheard a remark
0:11:52 > 0:11:56but there was never any blatant saying anything to you.
0:11:56 > 0:11:58But, as I say, it was going down into Greencastle
0:11:58 > 0:12:02and even me own thoughts were going away from Catholics.
0:12:02 > 0:12:06They, er, every night in news, riots here, there and everywhere.
0:12:06 > 0:12:11I-I just left for the summer, the club, no summer football,
0:12:11 > 0:12:13and just didn't go back the following year.
0:12:13 > 0:12:19Terry Nichol was a peacock of a man and we interviewed him, I remember,
0:12:19 > 0:12:23in his sister's garden, in Utah, with his top off
0:12:23 > 0:12:29and I think he was flexing his fists on a ball to strengthen himself.
0:12:29 > 0:12:31I mean, he's like all the others,
0:12:31 > 0:12:34they all had dreams of being the next George Best
0:12:34 > 0:12:41and he had a vision of himself being something of a film star
0:12:41 > 0:12:44and was flattered that we were filming him,
0:12:44 > 0:12:45and performed for the camera.
0:12:45 > 0:12:48So a lot of vanity in the man
0:12:48 > 0:12:54and he was a curious man simply because he had been in the Maze
0:12:54 > 0:12:58and he had seen Bobby Sands across the wire, erm,
0:12:58 > 0:13:03and he professed ideological, principled attitudes
0:13:03 > 0:13:08towards Loyalism but, at the drop of a hat,
0:13:08 > 0:13:11he would have emigrated to the United States and left all that behind.
0:13:11 > 0:13:13His time in the Maze
0:13:13 > 0:13:16coincided with that of his former teammate, Bobby Sands,
0:13:16 > 0:13:20also serving time for possession of firearms.
0:13:20 > 0:13:23I remember one day I called him over and he refused to come.
0:13:23 > 0:13:27I think he didn't want his friends to know that he actually
0:13:27 > 0:13:30associated himself with any Protestants.
0:13:30 > 0:13:32He took a bit of coaxing,
0:13:32 > 0:13:36I was shouting at him and...calling him names
0:13:36 > 0:13:39and he kept on looking around as if, looking at his friends to say,
0:13:39 > 0:13:42"Who's that? I don't really know him," you know?
0:13:42 > 0:13:43But I was shouting his name,
0:13:43 > 0:13:46even his first name, Robert, and things like that.
0:13:46 > 0:13:48And one time he just shouted back.
0:13:48 > 0:13:52I forget, I must've asked him about Tommy O'Neill
0:13:52 > 0:13:56and he said that he was in England. I was like, "Where?"
0:13:56 > 0:13:59Wouldn't answer, just went back and started playing football again.
0:14:00 > 0:14:05I only knew Bobby Sands up until he was, like, 17 and...
0:14:05 > 0:14:10to be honest, I never thought he would end up as he did.
0:14:10 > 0:14:13I mean, it shocked me when I heard that, like, Bobby Sands was,
0:14:13 > 0:14:17you know, hunger strike, on hunger strike, and that.
0:14:17 > 0:14:19Well, he must've had the conviction of his ways
0:14:19 > 0:14:21to go on and do what he did.
0:14:21 > 0:14:22You have to respect him for that,
0:14:22 > 0:14:24whether you respect his politics or not.
0:14:24 > 0:14:28But, looking back, the way Bobby Sands was when I knew him,
0:14:28 > 0:14:31at school he wasn't a particularly intelligent person
0:14:31 > 0:14:34and now, like, he's dead and he's left, he's written a book
0:14:34 > 0:14:36about Bobby Sands, with poetry in it.
0:14:36 > 0:14:39He was always intelligent, you know what I mean?
0:14:39 > 0:14:41But he was like myself, I mean, we were lazy at school.
0:14:41 > 0:14:43All we wanted to do was play football.
0:14:43 > 0:14:46Like, tended to spend more time round picking football teams
0:14:46 > 0:14:48for matches and that than doing schoolwork and that.
0:14:48 > 0:14:51Like I said, the memories of Bobby are happy ones, you know,
0:14:51 > 0:14:53and they're personal to myself, like, you know?
0:14:54 > 0:14:58He's... He's just the same as the rest of us, you know?
0:15:03 > 0:15:07While making the documentary, Olenka and her producer hit a problem.
0:15:07 > 0:15:12The club's founder, Dr Liam Conlon, objected to any association
0:15:12 > 0:15:17made between Star the Sea and Bobby Sands.
0:15:17 > 0:15:18Dr Conlon wrote to the BBC,
0:15:18 > 0:15:21once he learned that the programme was about to be made,
0:15:21 > 0:15:23and asked that it not be shown
0:15:23 > 0:15:27and the reason he gave was that he felt for his safety.
0:15:27 > 0:15:31He was worried about his safety as a consequence of that.
0:15:31 > 0:15:34And I saw the BBC's reply to him,
0:15:34 > 0:15:37which was fairly aloof but reassuring,
0:15:37 > 0:15:41saying we were sure nothing would happen to him
0:15:41 > 0:15:44and that we would take a very close look
0:15:44 > 0:15:47at the editorial direction of the film
0:15:47 > 0:15:49to ensure that nothing was said that would put him at risk
0:15:49 > 0:15:53and he was, I suppose, thus dismissed.
0:15:54 > 0:15:57Now, looking at that, I do wonder
0:15:57 > 0:16:01because people in sport were at risk.
0:16:01 > 0:16:04Whether there were any repercussions for him,
0:16:04 > 0:16:09whether it did cast a spotlight too closely over the club,
0:16:09 > 0:16:12whether it was something that did actually pose a danger.
0:16:17 > 0:16:20Raymond McCord's plans for Australia came to nothing.
0:16:21 > 0:16:25He remained in Northern Ireland with his wife and three sons.
0:16:27 > 0:16:31The Australian authorities turned our application down.
0:16:31 > 0:16:32Gave no reason for it...
0:16:33 > 0:16:38..I couldn't see why we got turned down. Er...
0:16:39 > 0:16:41..I was a tradesman, a skilled welder...
0:16:42 > 0:16:43..no criminal record,
0:16:43 > 0:16:47wasn't involved in the Troubles or anything.
0:16:47 > 0:16:49Still turned us down.
0:16:49 > 0:16:51Big disappointment -
0:16:51 > 0:16:54didn't want my sons growing up in Northern Ireland
0:16:54 > 0:16:56because of the Troubles.
0:16:57 > 0:17:00We've seen what happened years later...
0:17:00 > 0:17:01the oldest son was murdered.
0:17:06 > 0:17:12In 1997, Raymond McCord Jr was beaten to death by Loyalists.
0:17:12 > 0:17:16Since then his father has led a public campaign to highlight
0:17:16 > 0:17:19what he claims is collusion between paramilitaries
0:17:19 > 0:17:21and the security forces.
0:17:23 > 0:17:25It affected us in a terrible way...
0:17:27 > 0:17:29..wrecked our lives.
0:17:29 > 0:17:30My youngest lad...
0:17:32 > 0:17:37..er, had an opportunity of a promising football career in England - Millwall.
0:17:37 > 0:17:39Actually signed for Millwall.
0:17:39 > 0:17:44Chelsea were after him - they came over and met me - and Liverpool.
0:17:45 > 0:17:49There's so much I'll not forget the pain...
0:17:50 > 0:17:53..and 14 years later it's still the same.
0:18:05 > 0:18:08Star of the Sea Youth Club is no more.
0:18:09 > 0:18:13The site, on Belfast's Shore Road, derelict.
0:18:16 > 0:18:18It's a long time since I was up here.
0:18:18 > 0:18:19It's 30, 40 years.
0:18:19 > 0:18:22It's just, it's amazing.
0:18:22 > 0:18:26I didn't know the pitch was still here, the old goal posts and all.
0:18:28 > 0:18:30Fantastic. We played a lot of games here.
0:18:31 > 0:18:34For all three former teammates,
0:18:34 > 0:18:37this is their first time back on the pitch.
0:18:37 > 0:18:39It may be overgrown
0:18:39 > 0:18:43but it still holds memories of their teenage friendships.
0:18:43 > 0:18:45- Good to see you, Willie. - RAYMOND LAUGHS
0:18:45 > 0:18:48- Hey.- Hey.
0:18:48 > 0:18:51- How you doing?- I'm very pleased to see you. I don't know if you remember...?
0:18:51 > 0:18:54- Oh, aye, aye...- I think if it had have been overgrown like this,
0:18:54 > 0:18:56maybe we wouldn't have got beat so much!
0:18:56 > 0:18:58Big Ian watching them lads -
0:18:58 > 0:19:01that's centre half passing the ball back there, do remember?
0:19:01 > 0:19:06- The ball going through his legs! And he was like... - THEY LAUGH
0:19:06 > 0:19:07Oh, this is a bit of a shame.
0:19:07 > 0:19:11It's still a good pitch, all it needs is cut.
0:19:11 > 0:19:14And the way we used to come up, the club used to be down there,
0:19:14 > 0:19:17we used to come up the steps, there, at this side.
0:19:17 > 0:19:20And then, when we had cup games they used to put ropes round to cordon it off,
0:19:20 > 0:19:25so...the massive fan base couldn't get at us -
0:19:25 > 0:19:27there was about ten people at it, like!
0:19:27 > 0:19:29You know what's the amazing thing?
0:19:29 > 0:19:34You see the club, the only time you realised, or it came into your head,
0:19:34 > 0:19:38there was Catholic involvement in it, was at Christmas time.
0:19:38 > 0:19:41There was a local priest used to come down
0:19:41 > 0:19:46but I think he just come down to see if he could get in to get free drink and cigars, you know?
0:19:46 > 0:19:48- Isn't that right? Isn't it? - That's right, aye, yeah!
0:19:48 > 0:19:49So...
0:19:51 > 0:19:54- Star of the Sea. Do you remember who that was, Raymond?- Jim McCourt.
0:19:54 > 0:19:56Correct. Never seen him since that day that photograph was taken.
0:19:56 > 0:19:58He went missing, never to be seen again.
0:19:58 > 0:20:00That's John McCabe.
0:20:00 > 0:20:03Terry Nichol. Great player.
0:20:03 > 0:20:08- Do you remember our mascot...? - That was our club mascot, there! He never got a game, did he?
0:20:08 > 0:20:12- What are you even doing here(?) - He hasn't remembered a name yet! - THEY LAUGH
0:20:12 > 0:20:14There's Dessie - and that's you there.
0:20:14 > 0:20:17- Carlo from Ballymurphy. - What happened to him?- Never...
0:20:17 > 0:20:20- Don't know.- Never seen him again. - No.- Tommy. Tommy's dead now.
0:20:22 > 0:20:24Seansy, he's dead.
0:20:24 > 0:20:27Nobody would have dreamt then. There's one...two...
0:20:28 > 0:20:31..three in the photo there who's went to, went to prison.
0:20:31 > 0:20:33None of us at that time...
0:20:33 > 0:20:35would have thought anything of it.
0:20:35 > 0:20:40- Paramilitaries, politics, religion.- No.
0:20:40 > 0:20:43I'm delighted to be back here, especially to see Raymond because...
0:20:43 > 0:20:46and see him in such fine fettle.
0:20:46 > 0:20:48It's a long time since I've seen him and he's,
0:20:48 > 0:20:53considering all the things he's been through, I think he's bearing up well.
0:20:53 > 0:20:56'That's the memories still ticking in your head, and that. You can just see...
0:20:56 > 0:21:00'you can still hear yourself shouting for the ball and that or...'
0:21:00 > 0:21:02That's always there, like.
0:21:02 > 0:21:03I mean, you still can hear,
0:21:03 > 0:21:06"Gies that ball! Gies that ball! Dessie! Get that there!",
0:21:06 > 0:21:09One of them, like. You can still hear,
0:21:09 > 0:21:12you can still hear the, the ghosts of the past.
0:21:17 > 0:21:21In September 2000, cross-community football in Belfast
0:21:21 > 0:21:24received attention from an unexpected source.
0:21:25 > 0:21:29West End audiences queued up for Andrew Lloyd Webber and Ben Elton's
0:21:29 > 0:21:32West End musical The Beautiful Game.
0:21:32 > 0:21:34'The play is set in Northern Ireland'
0:21:34 > 0:21:39and its based around a football team, where did that notion come from?
0:21:39 > 0:21:44Well, funnily enough, just before I met Ben, I'd seen a documentary on BBC2
0:21:44 > 0:21:46about a kids' football team, you know, sort of,
0:21:46 > 0:21:50I mean, young kids, in Belfast, in 1969, and what it happened to them.
0:21:50 > 0:21:52And, I don't know, it's funny, I don't know why,
0:21:52 > 0:21:55but it, sort of, struck a chord in me and I, kind of, thought,
0:21:55 > 0:21:58I wondered whether there was idea here of some kind.
0:21:58 > 0:22:01I mean, I often think, got masses of ideas I've seen or, just,
0:22:01 > 0:22:05or programs, or something and you, sort of, think maybe one-day they'll, kind of, surface.
0:22:05 > 0:22:07And I sent the tape to Ben.
0:22:07 > 0:22:09Well, I thought, probably, I wouldn't hear from Ben
0:22:09 > 0:22:14but two weeks later came back a 40 page treatment with titles
0:22:14 > 0:22:18and, more or less, what we have done today.
0:22:22 > 0:22:26# Now and for ever
0:22:26 > 0:22:36# There's only one love in the end... #
0:22:37 > 0:22:41'It's a good acknowledgement of the team...'
0:22:41 > 0:22:47and, I believe, anybody involved with the club who watched it or was associated with it.
0:22:47 > 0:22:50'With, I say, the Star of the Sea under 16's.
0:22:50 > 0:22:53APPLAUSE
0:23:01 > 0:23:06'I left Belfast in 1982, to go back to London,'
0:23:06 > 0:23:12to get married, have children, and work pretty well all the way through.
0:23:12 > 0:23:17After a short stop at TV-am, for the BBC, I went to the Today programme,
0:23:17 > 0:23:22and then Newsnight, and then on to documentaries and current affairs.
0:23:23 > 0:23:26DOCUMENTARY EXCERPT : We went in search of this unknown Pakistan,
0:23:26 > 0:23:28far away from the cities...
0:23:28 > 0:23:31'What I learned in Northern Ireland, what I learned in Belfast,
0:23:31 > 0:23:33'particularly with Old Scores'
0:23:33 > 0:23:37was that as soon as you look at a story,
0:23:37 > 0:23:39that you think you understand,
0:23:39 > 0:23:46you discover depths of complexity, which nearly always come down to conflicts of loyalty.
0:23:46 > 0:23:50So, the metaphor of the team that...
0:23:50 > 0:23:54was used so obviously in Old Scores
0:23:54 > 0:23:57replayed itself many times again and again.
0:23:57 > 0:24:02'Raymond McCord, from the first day I met him, surprised me.
0:24:04 > 0:24:06'That man has fought a lifelong struggle,'
0:24:06 > 0:24:11from what I can see, against sectarian pressure,
0:24:11 > 0:24:14to be loyal to something he doesn't believe in.
0:24:18 > 0:24:21But what has made the greatest impression Olenka
0:24:21 > 0:24:26is the enduring friendship between Dessie Black and Willy Caldwell.
0:24:26 > 0:24:30'They've preserved their good nature and they preserved the same temperament
0:24:30 > 0:24:33that they had when they were 15, playing football.
0:24:33 > 0:24:35I mean, Dessie wanted to talk to me about football
0:24:35 > 0:24:37and I'm hopeless, I couldn't.
0:24:37 > 0:24:40I tried but I can't really have those conversations,
0:24:40 > 0:24:41I don't know enough about football.
0:24:41 > 0:24:47And you could see that football was the overwhelming interest in his life, still is.
0:24:47 > 0:24:54His own son became a footballer, a point of huge pride for him.
0:24:54 > 0:24:58Willie hasn't married, Dessie's marriage has ended.
0:24:58 > 0:25:01In their lives, their relationship,
0:25:01 > 0:25:04their friendship with each other is the strongest, most abiding
0:25:04 > 0:25:06and probably the most deep running relationship.
0:25:06 > 0:25:13You see them together, suddenly they are themselves at their best.
0:25:14 > 0:25:18Something deep runs between those two.
0:25:21 > 0:25:25Raymond McCord's campaign for justice continues
0:25:25 > 0:25:29but his focus is the family he still has.
0:25:29 > 0:25:33My two sons and myself are very close, my grandchildren.
0:25:33 > 0:25:37You know, three grandchildren - Dylan, Leah, Nicole.
0:25:41 > 0:25:43'Dylan plays football,
0:25:43 > 0:25:46'the lads go to watch him play football on a Saturday
0:25:46 > 0:25:50and he likes me to come and watch him play at the side of the house with him.
0:25:50 > 0:25:51'Even a ball in a park.
0:25:53 > 0:25:56'It makes me think about growing up in Rathcoole at that age,
0:25:56 > 0:26:01playing on the streets, football pitches.
0:26:01 > 0:26:03'And then, as the years went by...
0:26:05 > 0:26:07'..you think about Star of the Sea, you know?'
0:26:07 > 0:26:13Cos, you know, it was, to me, it was my first real love in football,
0:26:13 > 0:26:18my first football team, if I can use those sort of words, you know?
0:26:18 > 0:26:21And, er... I hope Dylan ends up with a team like that.
0:26:27 > 0:26:30'You know, he's playing football on a Saturday morning
0:26:30 > 0:26:34'in a great set up down in Greenisland - and it's mixed.'
0:26:39 > 0:26:44So, maybe they'll develop into what I would say, the next Star of the Sea.
0:26:44 > 0:26:45Hopefully they will.
0:26:45 > 0:26:49Pass it into the net, pass it into the net!
0:26:49 > 0:26:50Whoa!
0:26:52 > 0:26:54Clearly now is the perfect time
0:26:54 > 0:26:57to reconstitute the Star of the Sea football club
0:26:57 > 0:27:02and yet, when you go there, it's overgrown and derelict.
0:27:02 > 0:27:07You wonder where all this effort to build the bridges has gone
0:27:07 > 0:27:11if it wasn't even able to reconstruct something
0:27:11 > 0:27:13that still existed in the late '60s.
0:27:22 > 0:27:24It's such a shame because...
0:27:25 > 0:27:31..that club was not created by a people with a, sort of,
0:27:31 > 0:27:33kumbaya, do-gooding attitude,
0:27:33 > 0:27:36that club was created by people who believed in sport
0:27:36 > 0:27:38and the power of sport to be...
0:27:39 > 0:27:42..wholesome and good for young people,
0:27:42 > 0:27:48and thought that they could withstand the onslaughts of sectarianism.
0:27:48 > 0:27:51And yet now, when, apparently,
0:27:51 > 0:27:56the people of Northern Ireland are there to reap the peace dividend...
0:27:56 > 0:28:00it still hasn't been reconstituted and that's a huge shame.
0:28:26 > 0:28:30Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd