0:00:13 > 0:00:17This programme contains some strong language.
0:00:19 > 0:00:23This is Belfast's Protestant Shankill Road.
0:00:26 > 0:00:31Behind these walls lives a community which has suffered and caused
0:00:31 > 0:00:34as much violence as any in Northern Ireland.
0:00:39 > 0:00:43But their men are still determined to parade their loyalty to the Queen and Crown
0:00:43 > 0:00:47no matter what the consequences.
0:00:51 > 0:00:54ANGRY WHISTLE-BLOWING
0:01:09 > 0:01:14I am being shown around the Shankill Estate by 11-year-old Jordan McKeag,
0:01:14 > 0:01:19son of one of the most infamous loyalist families in the area.
0:01:20 > 0:01:22This is my Uncle Stevie.
0:01:22 > 0:01:28He died in, I think it was 2000 or something.
0:01:28 > 0:01:30He's my daddy's brother.
0:01:30 > 0:01:32Why is he famous, your uncle, Jordan?
0:01:32 > 0:01:36Cos I think he was a military commander.
0:01:36 > 0:01:38That's what it says up there.
0:01:39 > 0:01:42What does a military commander mean?
0:01:42 > 0:01:44I don't know.
0:01:44 > 0:01:47Was he in the paramilitaries?
0:01:47 > 0:01:51I think so. I think that's why everybody knows him.
0:01:51 > 0:01:54I don't know how he died, either.
0:01:54 > 0:01:57I've been asking my daddy and he doesn't know.
0:01:57 > 0:02:02He keeps on saying he doesn't know, but he really does.
0:02:04 > 0:02:09This is the prison my daddy was in. They call it the H-Block.
0:02:09 > 0:02:11Does it look like a nice place?
0:02:11 > 0:02:13No, I think it's scary.
0:02:13 > 0:02:16It looks scary, anyway.
0:02:18 > 0:02:21Shankill!
0:02:21 > 0:02:24DRUM ROLL
0:02:29 > 0:02:34Jackie, Jordan's dad, founded his band with fellow inmates after leaving The Maze,
0:02:34 > 0:02:39Belfast's famous high-security prison for paramilitaries.
0:02:44 > 0:02:47Although Jordan has been in his daddy's band since he was four,
0:02:47 > 0:02:51he has so far only been allowed to carry the band pole.
0:03:03 > 0:03:08- On 92 to 95 FM...- 1341 medium wave.
0:03:08 > 0:03:11This is BBC Radio Ulster.
0:03:11 > 0:03:14Daddy!
0:03:14 > 0:03:20It's Jordan's job to make sure that his daddy gets to his weekly band practice on time.
0:03:21 > 0:03:23Daddy!
0:03:26 > 0:03:28Jackie!
0:03:28 > 0:03:31Jackie, it's near seven.
0:03:31 > 0:03:33It's five to.
0:03:38 > 0:03:41- Where's he supposed to be? - Band practice.
0:03:42 > 0:03:44Try again.
0:03:44 > 0:03:46Daddy!
0:03:46 > 0:03:48Daddy, are you getting up?
0:03:48 > 0:03:50For fuck's sake!
0:04:06 > 0:04:10- What do you think of Jordan's drumming?- He's good. Brilliant.
0:04:10 > 0:04:14- If he had a drum, would you let him play in the band?- Aye, definitely.
0:04:14 > 0:04:16Aye. Definitely would.
0:04:16 > 0:04:19So he's good enough?
0:04:19 > 0:04:21He's better than good enough, so he is.
0:04:21 > 0:04:25- Can't you persuade Jackie to let him play in the band?- I've tried to.
0:04:25 > 0:04:27- Have you?- Aye, it's not happening.
0:04:28 > 0:04:31- No chance, is there, kid?- Nope.
0:04:33 > 0:04:35CALLS INSTRUCTIONS
0:04:40 > 0:04:44THEY PLAY "The Sash My Father Wore"
0:05:04 > 0:05:06No, no!
0:05:06 > 0:05:08No! No.
0:05:09 > 0:05:11Make your hands move bigger!
0:05:13 > 0:05:15When are we going to get Jordan a drum?
0:05:15 > 0:05:18I don't know.
0:05:18 > 0:05:21Cos the band won't pay for it. They won't let me put him in.
0:05:21 > 0:05:24- Everybody says you won't let him have one.- No, he's f...
0:05:42 > 0:05:44Do you know what your daddy was in prison for?
0:05:44 > 0:05:45Nope.
0:05:45 > 0:05:47Have you ever asked him?
0:05:47 > 0:05:50Yes, but he doesn't tell me.
0:05:51 > 0:05:53Why does he not tell you, pet?
0:05:53 > 0:05:56I don't know. It's probably something bad.
0:06:04 > 0:06:07I want my daddy to be really proud of me.
0:06:09 > 0:06:11What would make him proud of you, Jordan?
0:06:11 > 0:06:13Playing a drum.
0:06:16 > 0:06:19How much does it mean to you when he's proud of you, Jordan?
0:06:19 > 0:06:21The world.
0:06:34 > 0:06:36MUSIC PLAYS ON CAR CD
0:06:36 > 0:06:39# ..a table for four
0:06:39 > 0:06:43# But there's only conversation for three
0:06:44 > 0:06:48# I liked the way she let me get the door
0:06:48 > 0:06:52# And I wonder what she thinks of me. #
0:06:52 > 0:06:56Paul Schole runs another marching band,
0:06:56 > 0:07:01one of 13 that exists within the two-mile length of the Shankill Road.
0:07:04 > 0:07:07# She's asked me to dance
0:07:07 > 0:07:09# Now her hand's in mine... #
0:07:09 > 0:07:12- Do you think this wall will ever come down, Paul?- Never!
0:07:12 > 0:07:15They've made it bigger. Look at the size of it. It's bigger.
0:07:17 > 0:07:20How do you feel about tourists coming and looking at them?
0:07:20 > 0:07:25I only hope that when the tourists do come and look, they're getting a proper insight.
0:07:25 > 0:07:28Both sides of every story needs to be heard.
0:07:31 > 0:07:33Do you not feel the Loyalist side is heard?
0:07:33 > 0:07:35Very little.
0:07:35 > 0:07:39I'm loyal to the Queen and the Crown.
0:07:39 > 0:07:42Our bands are loyal to the Queen and the Crown.
0:07:43 > 0:07:46We're British, at the end of the day.
0:07:46 > 0:07:50Probably more British than people that actually live in Britain itself.
0:07:50 > 0:07:54We're probably more loyal to the Crown than they are.
0:07:54 > 0:07:56And that's a fact.
0:07:56 > 0:07:59England doesn't care about us.
0:07:59 > 0:08:02England would prefer to just give us away.
0:08:02 > 0:08:07Save them all the hassle, all the money it would save them. They don't care.
0:08:14 > 0:08:17Paul's band is the youngest band on the Shankill.
0:08:17 > 0:08:21Most of its members are teenagers and young kids.
0:08:21 > 0:08:24Lads, coming down them steps, do not swing your arms.
0:08:24 > 0:08:26Swing your arm up to the steps.
0:08:27 > 0:08:30As the marching season draws to an end,
0:08:30 > 0:08:34the band starts practising for the area's next indoor competition,
0:08:34 > 0:08:36the Battle of the Shankill.
0:08:37 > 0:08:39- What's wrong?- There's a big crack in it.
0:08:39 > 0:08:44Tell your ma she's to give you 180 quid next week for a new pair!
0:08:47 > 0:08:48Stand up!
0:08:52 > 0:08:55PLAY "GOD SAVE THE QUEEN"
0:09:07 > 0:09:10The reason why I joined a flute band as a child
0:09:10 > 0:09:15was probably because it was like an adventure type of thing, being in a band.
0:09:15 > 0:09:21Some kids are into football and stuff and I liked the colours and music of the band.
0:09:21 > 0:09:26At that age, you don't really know what it's about, as such.
0:09:26 > 0:09:31Paul told me what he would say if a Catholic asked to join his band.
0:09:31 > 0:09:37You can only be in the band if you are loyal to the Queen and loyal to the Crown.
0:09:37 > 0:09:40So if he can undertake that, then yeah.
0:09:40 > 0:09:43If he wants to become a Loyalist, a full Loyalist, yeah.
0:09:43 > 0:09:45Why not?
0:09:45 > 0:09:48It means changing his religion.
0:09:48 > 0:09:51So it's hypothetical. It just wouldn't happen.
0:09:51 > 0:09:55So a Catholic man or boy wanting to come and join my band,
0:09:55 > 0:09:59and me going, "Yeah, but you have to become a Protestant." If he does that, certainly.
0:09:59 > 0:10:01All Protestants welcome!
0:10:01 > 0:10:04Please apply within!
0:10:16 > 0:10:19It's the last big parade of the year in the Shankill Road.
0:10:19 > 0:10:23A day when over 60 bands are cheered on through the streets.
0:10:28 > 0:10:30They walk in memory of Brian Robinson
0:10:30 > 0:10:35a Loyalist gunman killed by a British soldier in 1989
0:10:35 > 0:10:39as he returned home from having shot a Catholic man dead.
0:10:47 > 0:10:53But recently, there has been an unexpected challenge to the respect the paramilitaries once held.
0:10:53 > 0:10:59The letters FAP have been sprayed all over the walls on the Shankill estate
0:10:59 > 0:11:03by gangs of kids, including Jordan.
0:11:03 > 0:11:08- There's graffiti going up on the estate.- Where?- FOP, or something.
0:11:08 > 0:11:10- FAP.- What does that mean?
0:11:10 > 0:11:12Fuck all paramilitaries.
0:11:14 > 0:11:17- What does that mean? - Fuck all paramilitaries.
0:11:19 > 0:11:23All paramilitaries are like UDA and UFF.
0:11:24 > 0:11:26And UVF.
0:11:26 > 0:11:30- And who wrote the graffiti? - Everyone.
0:11:30 > 0:11:32Everyone writes it.
0:11:33 > 0:11:39Your daddy said you signed your name at the bottom of it and he was cross. Is that right?
0:11:39 > 0:11:41Wasn't my fault. Why?
0:11:43 > 0:11:45- Did he tell you off?- No.
0:11:45 > 0:11:47I don't think he knows.
0:11:49 > 0:11:52The half of them don't understand what it is.
0:11:52 > 0:11:56The way the kids put it, it's "fuck all paramilitaries".
0:11:58 > 0:12:03Half the kids don't even know what it means or what it stands for
0:12:03 > 0:12:06or what the paramilitary even speak for.
0:12:10 > 0:12:12What did the paramilitary stand for?
0:12:12 > 0:12:14We were looking after our own communities.
0:12:14 > 0:12:17That's what they were formed for, as vigilantes.
0:12:17 > 0:12:20To stop us from being attacked by the other side.
0:12:25 > 0:12:30But this was going on before the kids were even born so half of them don't know what they were doing.
0:12:33 > 0:12:36I mean, if it wasn't for the paramilitaries,
0:12:36 > 0:12:39half the places were going daft.
0:12:45 > 0:12:47Come on! Get up!
0:12:56 > 0:12:58Who was Brian Robinson?
0:12:58 > 0:13:02Brian Robinson was a defender of the Protestant people.
0:13:03 > 0:13:06Brian Robinson was a true son of Ulster.
0:13:07 > 0:13:11Brian Robinson was a Loyalist to the day he died.
0:13:11 > 0:13:16And that's why I certainly would celebrate the life of Brian.
0:13:17 > 0:13:20Was he a paramilitary, then?
0:13:20 > 0:13:23- If you mean was he... - Was he in the paramilitary?
0:13:23 > 0:13:27- Aye, that's common knowledge, yes. - He did kill people?
0:13:28 > 0:13:31He shot a man, yeah.
0:13:31 > 0:13:33He shot a man the day he was shot, yeah.
0:13:34 > 0:13:39Do you think by keeping the memory of some of these guys alive,
0:13:39 > 0:13:40is that a bad thing?
0:13:40 > 0:13:42It can only be a good thing.
0:13:42 > 0:13:46But doesn't it stir up sectarianism?
0:13:46 > 0:13:49The way I look at it, these men didn't die in vain.
0:13:49 > 0:13:51They should never be forgotten.
0:13:51 > 0:13:53Never be forgotten.
0:13:53 > 0:13:57But shouldn't they be remembered but you need to move on?
0:13:57 > 0:14:01You can move on. There's ways and means of moving on.
0:14:01 > 0:14:03But you should never forget.
0:14:03 > 0:14:08So would people on the other side of the community see a parade in memory of him
0:14:08 > 0:14:10as offensive, do you think, Paul?
0:14:10 > 0:14:15They have their parades in memory of their fallen.
0:14:15 > 0:14:17As I always say,
0:14:17 > 0:14:23everyone is entitled to remember their war dead as such. It was a war we were in.
0:14:23 > 0:14:28We believe it's our British right to walk. It's part of our heritage and part of our culture.
0:14:30 > 0:14:34We walk the Queen's highway. This is Britain we're walking in.
0:14:34 > 0:14:38I'm never going to give that up for nobody.
0:14:38 > 0:14:41I never want to give up my culture and my traditions.
0:14:56 > 0:14:59As I watched the men march in their uniforms,
0:14:59 > 0:15:03walking to honour this man they see as a hero in their community,
0:15:03 > 0:15:08I wonder when and how we will ever reconcile our bloody past.
0:15:32 > 0:15:36Amongst these men, I notice 28-year-old Lee Hammond,
0:15:36 > 0:15:39the bass drummer with the West Belfast volunteers.
0:15:51 > 0:15:54Lee has lived all his life in the Shankill Road.
0:15:59 > 0:16:03- My wife...- How old are you? - I'll be 29 on Friday. 23 August.
0:16:03 > 0:16:061981 I was born.
0:16:06 > 0:16:08And you've got how many kids?
0:16:11 > 0:16:13Number eight on the way.
0:16:13 > 0:16:16Jessica. That's one of my wee girls.
0:16:17 > 0:16:19Tori's the other wee girl.
0:16:19 > 0:16:22And then Jake.
0:16:22 > 0:16:24Which you can't really make out.
0:16:24 > 0:16:27I think the fella was a bit drunk when he done that one!
0:16:29 > 0:16:31Are you going to show us any more?
0:16:31 > 0:16:35I've a big one on my back, but that's still work in progress.
0:16:37 > 0:16:39What are you going to do with that one?
0:16:39 > 0:16:42At the top of it, I'm getting "Daddy" done.
0:16:42 > 0:16:46As if over the kids' names.
0:16:46 > 0:16:50As if I'm the daddy, the angel, looking over all the kids.
0:16:50 > 0:16:52There's the band badge.
0:16:52 > 0:16:55- When did you get that one done? - When the band first formed.
0:16:55 > 0:17:00That's how dedicated and how into it I was.
0:17:04 > 0:17:06To live till I was 18. That was my goal in life.
0:17:06 > 0:17:13And then when I had my first child, it was to live till he was 18.
0:17:13 > 0:17:19- Why did you think you'd only live till then?- Because of the Troubles and because of where I lived.
0:17:19 > 0:17:21It was an interface area.
0:17:21 > 0:17:25So there were constant riots every weekend.
0:17:25 > 0:17:28So there was. Just for something to do.
0:17:28 > 0:17:31Did you think you'd get shot?
0:17:31 > 0:17:34Oh, aye. Everybody did.
0:17:34 > 0:17:37Do you think you had a childhood, Lee?
0:17:38 > 0:17:39No, not really.
0:17:42 > 0:17:45That's why now, when I'm in the band,
0:17:45 > 0:17:48I just feel like a big child,
0:17:48 > 0:17:50so I do, when I'm out with the band.
0:17:50 > 0:17:55That's why I prance about and dance and do all that there stuff,
0:17:55 > 0:17:57so I do.
0:18:07 > 0:18:10Every band has its own distinctive uniform.
0:18:11 > 0:18:15These uniforms can cost in the region of £500 each.
0:18:16 > 0:18:22It's like a kid in the corner shop in here! You see all the colours and you say, "I want that colour!"
0:18:22 > 0:18:25That's a lovely blue, like.
0:18:25 > 0:18:28Three years ago, we wanted the black and silver.
0:18:28 > 0:18:32- That was three years ago. - Aye.- Everybody wanted black. I wanted black and silver.
0:18:32 > 0:18:35And Wesley's took black and gold.
0:18:35 > 0:18:38So, Brian, are you like the Versace of the bands here?
0:18:38 > 0:18:43- Yes.- He's the Godfather!- I'm the designer.- He's the Godfather!
0:18:44 > 0:18:47"You dare to disrespect my uniform?"
0:18:47 > 0:18:49Listen, I'll see you mid-December.
0:18:49 > 0:18:54- That'll do.- Right?- As soon as you get the money down, I'll sort you out!
0:18:54 > 0:18:59- I know, mate. It's a deposit, now. It'll be a deposit. It'll be a few grand.- Aye.
0:19:00 > 0:19:04How much does it cost to put a band on the road?
0:19:04 > 0:19:06Your drums are £550.
0:19:06 > 0:19:09You need to be buying ten of them.
0:19:09 > 0:19:11That's 5,500 for a set of drums.
0:19:11 > 0:19:14The uniforms alone will cost over 20 grand.
0:19:14 > 0:19:19So where do you get that money in a community that's struggling?
0:19:19 > 0:19:23Fundraising. Just feet on the street.
0:19:23 > 0:19:28Paul's right-hand man is one of the Shankill's best drummers,
0:19:28 > 0:19:30Johnny Airdrie.
0:19:30 > 0:19:34Johnny, is he known as a bit of an Alan Sugar on the Shankill Road?
0:19:34 > 0:19:37- He likes to think he is! - "Likes to think he is!"
0:19:37 > 0:19:40Is he an entrepreneur?
0:19:40 > 0:19:42No, not at all. Definitely not. I'm skint.
0:19:42 > 0:19:44Not at all.
0:19:44 > 0:19:46I'm now currently unemployed.
0:19:46 > 0:19:49I wasn't a while back, but now I am.
0:19:51 > 0:19:53I was a prosperous... I had a prosperous business
0:19:53 > 0:19:55which is no longer in existence.
0:19:55 > 0:19:58So you went bust?
0:19:58 > 0:20:00- Yes.- When?
0:20:00 > 0:20:03Three months ago. Four months ago, thereabouts.
0:20:03 > 0:20:06Terrible. But I'm going to get back on my feet, hopefully.
0:20:11 > 0:20:14Paul drives me around the streets of the Shankill
0:20:14 > 0:20:18to show me where his young band members spend their evenings.
0:20:33 > 0:20:36There's a whole street derelict.
0:20:42 > 0:20:45That's where a young fella hung himself not long back.
0:20:45 > 0:20:47A suicide?
0:20:47 > 0:20:48Down here.
0:20:49 > 0:20:51Yeah.
0:20:51 > 0:20:54You would be concerned in case it would be one of your young lads.
0:20:54 > 0:20:58When I say young lads, I mean the lads out of the band.
0:20:58 > 0:21:03It would be concerning... I mean, what are they going to do?
0:21:03 > 0:21:09Hopefully, hopefully, they'll get a bit older and get a job.
0:21:10 > 0:21:12That was me.
0:21:12 > 0:21:14I used to do that.
0:21:14 > 0:21:16Hang about.
0:21:16 > 0:21:19- Were you a good boy when you were a kid?- No.
0:21:19 > 0:21:21- Were you not?- No.
0:21:21 > 0:21:23I was not indeed, no.
0:21:23 > 0:21:26I'm sure I had my parents' head melded.
0:21:26 > 0:21:28I wasn't a good lad at all.
0:21:32 > 0:21:34Your boys?
0:21:38 > 0:21:41What's happening, boys?
0:21:43 > 0:21:46- What's happening?- Nothing. - Taking no harm now?
0:21:46 > 0:21:48- No drugs?- Aye.
0:21:48 > 0:21:49Aye, I know.
0:21:49 > 0:21:51No drink?
0:21:51 > 0:21:54We've no money.
0:21:56 > 0:21:59If it wasn't for the band at the weekend,
0:21:59 > 0:22:01what would you be doing? Doing what?
0:22:01 > 0:22:04- Drinking.- Acting the idiot? - Aye. Going mad.
0:22:04 > 0:22:06So what?
0:22:06 > 0:22:10- All right, boys.- See you later.
0:22:10 > 0:22:12See you later, boys.
0:22:12 > 0:22:16There they go, into the wilderness.
0:22:18 > 0:22:21It's Beirut, I'm telling you.
0:22:25 > 0:22:34# Where Lagan stream sings lullaby
0:22:35 > 0:22:43# There blows a lily fair
0:22:43 > 0:22:46# The twilight gleam
0:22:46 > 0:22:50# Is in her eye... #
0:22:52 > 0:22:55It's two weeks after the Brian Robinson parade
0:22:55 > 0:22:58and I hear that Jordan's been involved in a discovery
0:22:58 > 0:23:02that has taken the whole of the Shankill by surprise.
0:23:05 > 0:23:08All I heard was Jordan saying, "Daddy, Daddy, quick!"
0:23:08 > 0:23:10I was like, "Is something wrong?"
0:23:10 > 0:23:14All I heard was Jordan saying, "There's somebody down the Muck Hills hanging."
0:23:14 > 0:23:18This wee boy had been missing for three weeks.
0:23:20 > 0:23:24And the first thing came into my head, I thought, "Oh, my God, that's that wee boy."
0:23:24 > 0:23:27Did you have bad dreams that night, Jordan?
0:23:27 > 0:23:30No, it's only when I walked in my room that night,
0:23:30 > 0:23:34to see my blazer hanging on my bed.
0:23:34 > 0:23:36It was scary.
0:23:37 > 0:23:43He had to sleep with the light on. He says where he hangs his uniform up
0:23:43 > 0:23:47it's like a cabin bed and he hangs it on the actual bed itself.
0:23:47 > 0:23:51And when he walked in, he says he nearly died.
0:23:51 > 0:23:54It brought him a flashback.
0:23:54 > 0:23:57That's what the wee lad was wearing, a black jacket.
0:23:57 > 0:24:01So for the first couple of nights, he had to sleep with the light on.
0:24:01 > 0:24:07Just to keep himself, I suppose, from being scared from it.
0:24:08 > 0:24:11Is there a lot of suicides on this estate?
0:24:11 > 0:24:14There's been a few suicides.
0:24:14 > 0:24:18Your daddy found someone hanging one night, so he did.
0:24:18 > 0:24:22Have you found people trying to hang themselves before on this estate?
0:24:22 > 0:24:25I think that's been the third I've found.
0:24:25 > 0:24:28A fella down the street, he hung himself, too.
0:24:28 > 0:24:32I found him. He was hanging from the loft.
0:24:32 > 0:24:37- Why are they taking their own lives, Jackie?- You don't know what's on their minds.
0:24:37 > 0:24:39Just anything to just stop it right away.
0:24:39 > 0:24:42And they won't go... They won't go and tell anybody.
0:24:42 > 0:24:45They just try and deal with it themselves.
0:24:46 > 0:24:50So looking at the deaths in these papers is a common thing, is it?
0:24:50 > 0:24:54It's every day. You know every day you open the paper
0:24:54 > 0:24:56you're going to know somebody.
0:24:58 > 0:25:04Do you ever feel that people need some sort of counselling, trauma thing, to get over things?
0:25:04 > 0:25:06There are places on the Shankill for that.
0:25:06 > 0:25:09But people won't go and tell their personal views.
0:25:09 > 0:25:12They want to keep it to themselves.
0:25:12 > 0:25:17Have you ever had any help for horrible things you've seen?
0:25:17 > 0:25:21No. I just get on with it. If it happens, it happens.
0:25:21 > 0:25:24Nothing you can do. Just get on with it.
0:25:34 > 0:25:38There's the wee boy's flowers where he hung himself.
0:25:38 > 0:25:40- That's where the wee boy hung himself?- Yeah.
0:25:40 > 0:25:42- Where?- Up in those bushes.
0:25:42 > 0:25:45But there's his flowers.
0:25:45 > 0:25:48There's his photo.
0:25:54 > 0:25:57I was coming home from football.
0:25:57 > 0:26:02Then when my mates told me there was a dead body down the Muck Hills,
0:26:02 > 0:26:06and I said, "Stop messing about. It's only a wee dummy!"
0:26:06 > 0:26:12Then I went down and looked and it was a real person.
0:26:27 > 0:26:29Control it, Travis!
0:26:29 > 0:26:31Control it!
0:26:32 > 0:26:35- What's wrong?- He kicked my ball away.
0:26:35 > 0:26:37- Jordan, where's the ball?- Up there.
0:26:39 > 0:26:42DIALOGUE UNCLEAR
0:26:44 > 0:26:46Get it!
0:26:46 > 0:26:47I need to get up!
0:26:47 > 0:26:49You owe me a tenner, dick-head!
0:26:49 > 0:26:51- He'll get it.- No, he won't!
0:26:51 > 0:26:53Fuck off, Darnell.
0:26:53 > 0:26:55No, fuck off, Darnell! Go away.
0:27:34 > 0:27:36ROUSING MARCHING TUNE
0:27:48 > 0:27:50One week before the Battle of the Bands.
0:27:50 > 0:27:52There's been a setback for Paul.
0:27:52 > 0:27:56His right-hand man has defected to a rival band.
0:27:56 > 0:27:59A few points to bring up for those who didn't know.
0:27:59 > 0:28:01Johnny and Brian's left us.
0:28:02 > 0:28:04All right?
0:28:04 > 0:28:06They've went, as far as we believe,
0:28:06 > 0:28:10to the ranks of West Belfast Volunteers' Flute Band.
0:28:10 > 0:28:15At the end of the day, we're bigger and better and stronger now than we were before.
0:28:15 > 0:28:19Right? So don't be getting downbeat about it.
0:28:19 > 0:28:22If you see Johnny, be the same as you always were.
0:28:22 > 0:28:27I don't want these lads thinking he was the be all and end all. This band is bigger than one person.
0:28:35 > 0:28:38Johnny has joined Lee's band, the West Belfast Volunteers.
0:28:38 > 0:28:41It's run by Marcus.
0:28:48 > 0:28:51- He came to a better band. - He came to a better band?
0:28:51 > 0:28:54Is that how you feel, Johnny? You're in a better band now?
0:28:54 > 0:28:56No comment!
0:29:00 > 0:29:02The transfer went open and we got him. 50p!
0:29:02 > 0:29:04Can't beat that!
0:29:04 > 0:29:08- The transfer went open? Does that happen in the band scene?- It does!
0:29:08 > 0:29:10Are you pleased?
0:29:10 > 0:29:13We're getting there. Getting there.
0:29:24 > 0:29:28The due date for Lee's eighth child is only weeks away.
0:29:28 > 0:29:31His wife Lisa has suddenly been told
0:29:31 > 0:29:33there may be a problem with the pregnancy.
0:29:35 > 0:29:38"The cystic space, noticed swelling measuring."
0:29:39 > 0:29:44How are you left feeling after that, Lisa?
0:29:46 > 0:29:48Petrified.
0:29:49 > 0:29:51I had to fight the tears back.
0:29:51 > 0:29:55I thought if I start crying I'll never walk out of that room,
0:29:55 > 0:29:57everybody would be looking at me.
0:29:57 > 0:29:59So I didn't.
0:29:59 > 0:30:04Do you have a fear, because you lost a baby before, didn't you?
0:30:04 > 0:30:05Mm.
0:30:05 > 0:30:08How pregnant were you when you lost that baby?
0:30:08 > 0:30:10Four months.
0:30:12 > 0:30:16- Do you think you always have a fear that there's something wrong?- Mmm.
0:30:16 > 0:30:19Cos I had to go in and deliver the baby myself.
0:30:19 > 0:30:22So I did.
0:30:23 > 0:30:25How did Lee take that?
0:30:25 > 0:30:27He never spoke.
0:30:27 > 0:30:30To this day, he doesn't speak about it either.
0:30:32 > 0:30:37Do you think he finds things that are emotionally upsetting really hard to deal with?
0:30:37 > 0:30:40He bottles it all up, so he does.
0:30:40 > 0:30:43I don't know why, because it would drive me loopy.
0:30:44 > 0:30:46- What are you waiting for now? - Another scan.
0:30:46 > 0:30:49To make sure everything's OK.
0:30:51 > 0:30:53I'll be counting the weeks down till it happens.
0:30:55 > 0:30:58- So what is the cystic space? Do you know?- I haven't a clue.
0:30:58 > 0:31:01Not a clue!
0:31:01 > 0:31:04And how's Lee dealing with this news?
0:31:04 > 0:31:07Same again. Doesn't speak about it.
0:31:07 > 0:31:10Do you think he's frightened and doesn't want to let on?
0:31:10 > 0:31:12Yep.
0:31:12 > 0:31:14The past 24 hours have been a bit tough.
0:31:16 > 0:31:19I'd say more than a bit, so I would!
0:31:19 > 0:31:22But there's nothing you can really do.
0:31:23 > 0:31:27Do you think you're trying to put a brave face on the whole thing
0:31:27 > 0:31:29- to keep her...- I have to.
0:31:29 > 0:31:33I think once she sees me going down in the dumps,
0:31:33 > 0:31:36she'll follow me.
0:31:36 > 0:31:38So she will.
0:31:38 > 0:31:41Do you never have moments where you have to walk away
0:31:41 > 0:31:43and go, "God, this is really shit."
0:31:43 > 0:31:44All the time!
0:31:46 > 0:31:48But I just don't let people see that.
0:31:48 > 0:31:51I don't want people to see that side of me.
0:31:52 > 0:31:54What side?
0:31:54 > 0:31:57The sort of down and depressed side.
0:31:59 > 0:32:02That's not for people to see.
0:32:05 > 0:32:11Cos when people see me, they always see me smiling, happy, cheerful, whatever.
0:32:11 > 0:32:15And for them to see me maybe down in the dumps or whatever,
0:32:15 > 0:32:17I don't like it.
0:32:36 > 0:32:38Nice? Aye, nice!
0:32:47 > 0:32:49DOG BARKS
0:32:58 > 0:33:00Max, shut up! Max!
0:33:02 > 0:33:05It's Halloween at Jordan's house.
0:33:05 > 0:33:09I've noticed a change in the way Jackie is with Jordan.
0:33:09 > 0:33:13- Do you remember doing this when you were a kid?- I never done it.
0:33:13 > 0:33:14- Did you not?- No.
0:33:14 > 0:33:18What would you do when you were a kid, Jackie?
0:33:18 > 0:33:20I was wrecking the place.
0:33:20 > 0:33:26- Did you do pumpkins when you were a wee girl?- No, I did not, no.
0:33:28 > 0:33:30I'm not a... I don't...
0:33:31 > 0:33:33Jackie and all call me bore bag.
0:33:33 > 0:33:37Cos I don't like Christmas, don't like any holiday times.
0:33:37 > 0:33:41- Doesn't like her fucking self. - I don't like myself, Jackie says!
0:33:41 > 0:33:44Then sometimes I'll throw a wobbler.
0:33:44 > 0:33:48- When you throw a wobbler, what do you do?- I used to wreck the place.
0:33:48 > 0:33:51- Didn't I, Jordan?- Yep.
0:33:51 > 0:33:53And I have to listen to it!
0:33:55 > 0:33:58- Don't put your finger on the blade! - I'm not.- You did.
0:33:58 > 0:34:01Get back. You might get cut.
0:34:06 > 0:34:09- Did you cut yourself yet?- Fuck off.
0:34:10 > 0:34:12- Watch your finger.- Aye.
0:34:12 > 0:34:15- You watch.- Watch!
0:34:19 > 0:34:23Daddy's never been in a church in his life.
0:34:23 > 0:34:27- Sorry, Jordan, say that again. - What the fuck's church got to do with this?
0:34:27 > 0:34:31- Daddy's never been in a church. - Why's that suddenly come into your mind, Jordan?
0:34:31 > 0:34:33I don't know.
0:34:33 > 0:34:36He's worried about saving your soul, Jackie!
0:34:36 > 0:34:38Bit too fucking late for that!
0:34:39 > 0:34:43Oh. It's not as good as the last one.
0:34:43 > 0:34:44Then do it yourself, then!
0:34:53 > 0:34:56Where are we going, Jordan? Tell us where we're going.
0:34:56 > 0:35:00The shop, to get my Halloween costume.
0:35:00 > 0:35:04- What's it like?- All right.
0:35:11 > 0:35:13Bye!
0:35:14 > 0:35:16Stop it!
0:35:16 > 0:35:19That isn't crazy string! Look at it!
0:35:25 > 0:35:27Get away with that stuff!
0:35:40 > 0:35:42What does KAT mean?
0:35:42 > 0:35:44"Kill all Taigs".
0:35:44 > 0:35:46What does Taig mean?
0:35:46 > 0:35:48Catholics.
0:35:50 > 0:35:52Why do people write that?
0:35:52 > 0:35:54I don't know.
0:35:57 > 0:35:59Bad name.
0:35:59 > 0:36:02But they write KAH.
0:36:02 > 0:36:04Kill all Huns.
0:36:05 > 0:36:07Kill all Huns.
0:36:07 > 0:36:09- It's Hons.- It isn't. It's Hun.
0:36:09 > 0:36:12- We're Hons.- It's Hun!
0:36:12 > 0:36:14Who are Huns?
0:36:14 > 0:36:15Protestants.
0:36:19 > 0:36:22# My guy, my guy! #
0:36:22 > 0:36:24In the mugs.
0:36:24 > 0:36:31Do you think, Jackie, that Jordan and his generation understand what The Troubles was all about?
0:36:31 > 0:36:33No. They haven't a clue.
0:36:33 > 0:36:34Can I do one?
0:36:34 > 0:36:37What do you think they need to know about it all, Jackie?
0:36:37 > 0:36:39What the Cause was for.
0:36:39 > 0:36:41- Burn, baby, burn.- There, Travis.
0:36:41 > 0:36:44It was the Cause for our country.
0:36:44 > 0:36:46It's a different era now.
0:36:47 > 0:36:50Time to make changes. Time to move forward.
0:36:50 > 0:36:55Do you think he's a better age to cope with these questions now?
0:36:55 > 0:36:58He has a bit of sense. He knows what he's asking me.
0:36:58 > 0:37:01He knows what he's been told.
0:37:01 > 0:37:03But you can't tell him any of the bad bits.
0:37:04 > 0:37:08I wouldn't want him to see what I've seen and what I went through.
0:37:08 > 0:37:10Hopefully he won't go down that road.
0:37:10 > 0:37:14Years ago, you were maybe getting a phone call,
0:37:14 > 0:37:17somebody this has been shot dead, that's been shot dead.
0:37:17 > 0:37:20It was friends and family you were losing.
0:37:20 > 0:37:22But now you're not hearing it.
0:37:22 > 0:37:24It's just the way of living.
0:37:25 > 0:37:30Do you think, for all the awful things you've seen and lived through,
0:37:30 > 0:37:34how do you deal with that? Do you have flashbacks, bad memories?
0:37:34 > 0:37:40You just have to get on with it. I'm not the only one. Thousands went through worse than I did.
0:37:40 > 0:37:43You just have to get on with it. There's nothing else you can do.
0:37:48 > 0:37:50Trick or treat?
0:37:50 > 0:37:53FIREWORKS WHIZZ OVERHEAD
0:37:54 > 0:37:57# Halloween's coming and the goose is getting fat
0:37:57 > 0:37:59# Please put a penny in the old man's hat. #
0:38:01 > 0:38:03Lift it up yourself.
0:38:03 > 0:38:05Are you ready?
0:38:09 > 0:38:10Ready?
0:38:10 > 0:38:12That's it!
0:38:12 > 0:38:16That's it. Leave it. It's going up quick.
0:38:27 > 0:38:30It's the day of Lisa's scan in a specialist baby unit.
0:38:38 > 0:38:39Fairly normal.
0:38:42 > 0:38:44Round to the front.
0:38:45 > 0:38:47The shape of the head looks good.
0:38:48 > 0:38:51Reassuring features of the face there and the lips
0:38:51 > 0:38:54and the nose, OK.
0:38:54 > 0:38:57He's a star even before he's born!
0:38:57 > 0:39:00- Do you think he's a drummer, Lee? - He's a bass drummer.
0:39:00 > 0:39:02He's got the arms for it!
0:39:02 > 0:39:04- It's a "he", is it?- Yes, it's a he!
0:39:06 > 0:39:09Everything else looks really quite reassuring.
0:39:09 > 0:39:10OK?
0:39:10 > 0:39:12- That's good news, isn't it?- Yep.
0:39:12 > 0:39:14- Thank you.- Right.
0:39:14 > 0:39:16- How do you feel, Lisa?- Relieved!
0:39:16 > 0:39:20She was told not to worry about anything.
0:39:20 > 0:39:22So a good night's sleep tonight!
0:39:22 > 0:39:24For both of us.
0:39:30 > 0:39:32What do you hope for your children?
0:39:32 > 0:39:34Just for them to have a future.
0:39:34 > 0:39:36For them to have a childhood.
0:39:36 > 0:39:43They're not growing up with the sort of stuff people of my age had to grow up with.
0:39:46 > 0:39:50There's times before I've actually broke down in front of Lisa.
0:39:51 > 0:39:54Cos my past, she doesn't really know much about it.
0:39:54 > 0:39:57I don't want her to know much about it.
0:39:57 > 0:40:01There's a lot of people that have stuff sitting on hold.
0:40:01 > 0:40:05It affects people in different ways.
0:40:05 > 0:40:08Taking their own lives, stuff like that.
0:40:08 > 0:40:14I think that's why a lot of people from the Shankill go and join bands.
0:40:15 > 0:40:18They probably feel the same way as what I do.
0:40:19 > 0:40:21About being a big child again!
0:41:16 > 0:41:22I would love to get first or second. I'd love it beyond imagination. Love it.
0:41:22 > 0:41:26But realistically, I think you're trying for third.
0:41:26 > 0:41:30But listen. I want you to try your total best here on Saturday.
0:41:30 > 0:41:33I'm being serious. We have a point to prove.
0:41:44 > 0:41:48It's the first week back at school for Jordan, after half term.
0:41:48 > 0:41:54He's been asked to see the music department about joining the school band.
0:41:54 > 0:42:01Jordan, I have sent for you because I've been looking at our instrumental time-tables.
0:42:01 > 0:42:06There's a space that has come up on snare drumming.
0:42:06 > 0:42:08If you're really interested in this,
0:42:08 > 0:42:11I want you to go home and do some practising
0:42:11 > 0:42:16and next Tuesday, the teacher is going to audition some of the boys
0:42:16 > 0:42:22and we're going to see if we can get someone to fill the spaces left on that time-table.
0:42:22 > 0:42:23Would you enjoy that?
0:42:23 > 0:42:26- How do you feel?- Amazing!
0:42:27 > 0:42:30- A wee bit happy or a big bit happy? - Big bit!
0:42:30 > 0:42:34I'm going to go home and ask my daddy
0:42:34 > 0:42:36can I play the drum, and practise.
0:42:40 > 0:42:44If I get through, I'll be playing in a band.
0:42:44 > 0:42:46- That's great.- The school band.
0:42:46 > 0:42:48- The drum?- Yeah.
0:42:48 > 0:42:50Oooh!
0:42:50 > 0:42:52- He's loving it.- Are you loving it?
0:42:52 > 0:42:56- You'd better have it right.- I know, but Daddy, I have to practise.
0:42:56 > 0:42:59Can you help me practise?
0:42:59 > 0:43:01You can play a tune and I can play with it.
0:43:01 > 0:43:03Play along with it.
0:43:03 > 0:43:05- That's what the teacher said. - Right. OK.
0:43:05 > 0:43:07Right.
0:43:07 > 0:43:08When?
0:43:08 > 0:43:10Any time before...
0:43:10 > 0:43:12Like any time.
0:43:38 > 0:43:41Peace has brought tourists from all over the world
0:43:41 > 0:43:43to the streets of Belfast.
0:43:43 > 0:43:47They come to see the places that were once headline news.
0:43:59 > 0:44:02Who are these people? Are they tourists?
0:44:02 > 0:44:03Yeah.
0:44:04 > 0:44:07Why do tourists come here, Jordan?
0:44:07 > 0:44:09To look at all the murals.
0:44:09 > 0:44:14- Where do you think they come from? - They come from Spain and all.
0:44:14 > 0:44:18- Why have they come to look at these murals?- I don't know.
0:44:18 > 0:44:22If you were a tour guide, what would you tell them, Jordan?
0:44:22 > 0:44:25All the stuff about the murals.
0:44:25 > 0:44:28I'd tell them what happened and all in the past.
0:44:28 > 0:44:30Like a war.
0:44:32 > 0:44:34And the Shankill bomb.
0:44:37 > 0:44:41The Shankill bomb of 1993
0:44:41 > 0:44:44was the single worst atrocity to hit this community.
0:44:46 > 0:44:49The bomb exploded in a crowded fish shop
0:44:49 > 0:44:51on a busy Saturday afternoon.
0:44:55 > 0:45:00It affected everybody, but none more so than the leader of the Westies.
0:45:03 > 0:45:07My father died on the Thursday. He was in hospital for an operation.
0:45:07 > 0:45:09And on the Saturday,
0:45:09 > 0:45:13my brother and his girlfriend and their daughter were killed at this spot
0:45:13 > 0:45:15by the IRA.
0:45:17 > 0:45:20Why were they there that day?
0:45:20 > 0:45:25They were actually in the flower shop getting their wreaths.
0:45:25 > 0:45:31And they went into the fish shop, she always loved them crab sticks.
0:45:31 > 0:45:34They were buying them.
0:45:34 > 0:45:37- They were getting a wreath for your father?- Yep.
0:45:37 > 0:45:40Do you always mark this spot with flowers?
0:45:40 > 0:45:44Yes, I always do it the night before, every year.
0:45:44 > 0:45:47A lot of things have changed over the years.
0:45:49 > 0:45:51Would you say people still have nightmares
0:45:51 > 0:45:55and still struggle with the awful stuff they've seen and been through?
0:45:55 > 0:45:57Yeah, definitely.
0:45:59 > 0:46:01As I say, it's...
0:46:01 > 0:46:05Us over here suffered an awful lot during the conflict.
0:46:07 > 0:46:10Hundreds of people have been affected by it.
0:46:10 > 0:46:12Hundreds.
0:46:15 > 0:46:18Are the wounds still raw, would you say?
0:46:21 > 0:46:23A lot of time yet.
0:46:43 > 0:46:46Tuck those shirts in.
0:46:47 > 0:46:49It's the Battle of the Shankill,
0:46:49 > 0:46:54a day when most of the bands fight it out for the title Band of the Road.
0:47:11 > 0:47:15I've now spent more than two months here, and I'm beginning to understand
0:47:15 > 0:47:18why the bands mean so much to these men.
0:47:28 > 0:47:31But my feelings about it are mixed.
0:47:33 > 0:47:36In a world where so much is left unspoken,
0:47:36 > 0:47:41this music is a release for men with dark memories and troubled pasts.
0:47:45 > 0:47:48But it also entrenches them
0:47:48 > 0:47:50and keeps old prejudices alive.
0:48:25 > 0:48:28Shh! Shh!
0:48:29 > 0:48:33The third position goes to the West Belfast Volunteers.
0:48:44 > 0:48:49Folks, first position goes to the Shankill Star.
0:48:50 > 0:48:52Paul walks away empty-handed.
0:48:52 > 0:48:54Well done.
0:48:54 > 0:48:56Thank you, mate. Thank you.
0:49:08 > 0:49:11It's the morning of Jordan's drumming audition,
0:49:11 > 0:49:15a chance for him to win a place in the school band.
0:49:17 > 0:49:19Have you prepared something for me?
0:49:19 > 0:49:21Do you want to try anything?
0:49:21 > 0:49:23I'll have a go.
0:49:23 > 0:49:25See what you can do on the snare drum.
0:49:28 > 0:49:31PLAYS SKILFULLY
0:49:34 > 0:49:36Brilliant. Very good. That's great.
0:49:36 > 0:49:38PLAYS BEATS
0:49:40 > 0:49:41Perfect.
0:49:41 > 0:49:46Try that again. It's just getting that open sound. Yeah.
0:49:48 > 0:49:52Jackie's discovered that it's possible for former inmates
0:49:52 > 0:49:54to visit the now derelict Maze Prison.
0:49:56 > 0:49:59He's decided not only to go himself,
0:49:59 > 0:50:00but to take Jordan with him.
0:50:02 > 0:50:06The prisoners in The Maze, what were they in there for?
0:50:06 > 0:50:09Oh, different things.
0:50:09 > 0:50:12Murders, bombings, shootings.
0:50:13 > 0:50:16Different things.
0:50:16 > 0:50:20- But the prison was mostly for... - Political prisoners.
0:50:21 > 0:50:24Why would you like to take Jordan back to The Maze now?
0:50:24 > 0:50:29To let him see what we went through. What we lived in.
0:50:29 > 0:50:32And hopefully, as I say, he doesn't go down that road.
0:50:36 > 0:50:40He's a good boy, though. He's got dreams.
0:50:40 > 0:50:42We were all good boys!
0:50:43 > 0:50:45But unfortunately that changed.
0:50:45 > 0:50:48Is he at that age now where he does want to know a bit more?
0:50:48 > 0:50:52Yes, he's starting to ask more questions.
0:50:52 > 0:50:54So often he so wants to please you.
0:50:54 > 0:50:57Coming to tell you things. He so wants to please his daddy.
0:50:57 > 0:51:00Do you think when you go back to The Maze
0:51:00 > 0:51:04that'll fill in a wee hole he doesn't know about you?
0:51:04 > 0:51:05It'll excite him.
0:51:07 > 0:51:10Well, as I say, there'll be things that he'll ask
0:51:10 > 0:51:12and there's things I won't answer.
0:51:12 > 0:51:15I'll either say, "No, Jordan, I'm not telling you that."
0:51:15 > 0:51:19There's things I want him to hear and things I don't want him to hear.
0:51:19 > 0:51:24Do you think everybody's in the same boat as you, Jackie?
0:51:24 > 0:51:25Mm-hmm. Aye.
0:51:25 > 0:51:29- Are there some things people just never talk about again?- Yep.
0:51:29 > 0:51:33There's things happen you just keep in to yourself.
0:51:33 > 0:51:34Nobody knows.
0:51:37 > 0:51:40- Only you.- Uh-huh. You keep it to yourself.
0:51:46 > 0:51:50- So would you like to be in the band? Come back next week?- Yeah! - Definitely?
0:51:50 > 0:51:53- Good stuff. I'd love to have you back.- OK.- Thank you.
0:51:54 > 0:51:56Mummy, I got in!
0:51:57 > 0:52:00Daddy has to buy me a drum now!
0:52:01 > 0:52:04'These drum sticks are lucky, then, after all!'
0:52:06 > 0:52:07See you later.
0:52:07 > 0:52:09(Bye! See you later!)
0:52:33 > 0:52:36Right. Come along.
0:52:36 > 0:52:38Are you going to push?
0:52:40 > 0:52:43You'll have to push the baby. I've got to smoke!
0:52:50 > 0:52:54- When was he born, Lee? - Half one, Christmas morning.
0:52:54 > 0:52:57Best Christmas present ever!
0:52:57 > 0:52:59So what's he going to do in the band?
0:52:59 > 0:53:03Uh, I'll get him on the flute first for a while.
0:53:03 > 0:53:07Then when he's big enough get him onto the bass drum or side drum.
0:53:10 > 0:53:13- Bass drum, side drum, like his daddy?- Oh, yeah.
0:53:13 > 0:53:15I can't wait.
0:53:30 > 0:53:32- Why do you do it, Paul? - Because I love it.
0:53:32 > 0:53:36- Do you?- I love it. I've always been round bands all my life.
0:53:36 > 0:53:43Always. And I take great pride in it. It teaches you right from wrong, if you get my drift.
0:53:43 > 0:53:49You're hoping that the boys will be sensible grown-ups
0:53:49 > 0:53:55in years to come rather than fucking idiots running about taking drugs and getting up to no good.
0:53:55 > 0:53:57Lads, listen, serious.
0:53:57 > 0:54:01The collection tonight is the most important thing for us.
0:54:01 > 0:54:04The band needs about ten grand. We must score here.
0:54:08 > 0:54:09Sorry to bother you.
0:54:11 > 0:54:14Thank you very much. Cheers. Thank you. Good night.
0:54:16 > 0:54:20It's this street here.
0:54:40 > 0:54:42JORDAN GIGGLES
0:54:47 > 0:54:51It's the day of Jackie and Jordan's visit to The Maze.
0:54:53 > 0:54:56CONVERSATION UNCLEAR
0:54:56 > 0:54:58Go easy, now, Daddy.
0:54:58 > 0:55:00In case we crash.
0:55:00 > 0:55:02It's too slippy.
0:55:02 > 0:55:04- Jordan, shut up.- Daddy, shh!
0:55:08 > 0:55:12I'm aware Jackie is not likely to tell Jordan everything he's seen.
0:55:12 > 0:55:14Nor everything he's done.
0:55:14 > 0:55:18But I'm struck by the fact that he now seems able to share something of his own past
0:55:18 > 0:55:21with his 11-year-old son.
0:55:38 > 0:55:41- There isn't even no water in them. - No.
0:55:41 > 0:55:43- It's bone dry.- That's right.
0:55:44 > 0:55:49That's the way you come out. When you had a visitor you had to stand till they came out.
0:55:49 > 0:55:52You had to stand here. They called you and you had to stand here.
0:55:52 > 0:55:54Stand next to this.
0:55:54 > 0:55:57Come and see where the beds were. Wait till you see.
0:56:01 > 0:56:05It's really hard. We only had them at one time, then they brought these in.
0:56:05 > 0:56:07- Why?- Because that's all you had.
0:56:07 > 0:56:08See here?
0:56:08 > 0:56:11- That was your light switch. - Where was your toilet?
0:56:11 > 0:56:13A pot.
0:56:13 > 0:56:15- Is it scary?- Yeah.
0:56:15 > 0:56:18- Would you be scared?- Yeah.
0:56:21 > 0:56:23Here you used to have curtains.
0:56:23 > 0:56:26Did people not try and hang themself?
0:56:26 > 0:56:28No.
0:56:36 > 0:56:41- Tell me why people was being sent to The Maze. - Because there was a war.
0:56:41 > 0:56:42What do you mean, war?
0:56:42 > 0:56:46- The IRA and the UVF and UDA. - Paramilitaries.- Yes.
0:56:46 > 0:56:50It was a war. It was all paramilitaries came in here.
0:56:50 > 0:56:54Jordan, do you know what the paramilitaries were? Do you understand?
0:56:54 > 0:56:56No, not much.
0:56:56 > 0:56:59Do you understand what they were fighting for, or anything?
0:57:01 > 0:57:03What were you fighting for?
0:57:03 > 0:57:06- The Cause.- What's that? - To keep Ulster.
0:57:06 > 0:57:10Like Protestants and Catholics did great harm?
0:57:10 > 0:57:12Yes.
0:57:12 > 0:57:14Tell me what's going on in your head.
0:57:14 > 0:57:17Mad things going on in my head.
0:57:17 > 0:57:19- Was The Maze that scary?- Aye.
0:57:19 > 0:57:21Aye.
0:57:23 > 0:57:26I hope they don't go through what we went through. Or see what we saw.
0:57:26 > 0:57:29- What did you see?- Everything.
0:57:31 > 0:57:33People getting shot and all?
0:57:33 > 0:57:36Did you see someone have their arm blown off?
0:57:36 > 0:57:38You don't see that now, sure you don't.
0:57:38 > 0:57:40- You don't want to see that.- No.
0:57:41 > 0:57:45- I don't even want to see someone dead.- No.
0:57:45 > 0:57:47It's not nice.
0:57:47 > 0:57:49Not nice.
0:57:50 > 0:57:54- Why?- Because it's just sick.
0:58:40 > 0:58:43Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd