0:00:10 > 0:00:16THIS PROGRAMME CONTAINS STRONG LANGUAGE
0:00:16 > 0:00:20I went into my bedroom and I just remember opening the door
0:00:20 > 0:00:24and just having this heat and smoke hit me.
0:00:24 > 0:00:27The room was engulfed in flames.
0:00:29 > 0:00:33'At the age of 11, melting plastic toys in his bedroom,
0:00:33 > 0:00:37'Jamie set a fire that burnt down the top floor of his house.'
0:00:38 > 0:00:44I seen a filing cabinet. I put a little bit of petrol on it and lit it.
0:00:44 > 0:00:49Then shut the window. I was laughing, running up the road.
0:00:49 > 0:00:52'At 15, Dean set light to his classroom.
0:00:52 > 0:00:57'The fire spread and destroyed most of his school.'
0:00:59 > 0:01:04I had, like, a really horrible feeling inside me.
0:01:04 > 0:01:08It was like butterflies and feeling sick as you walk around.
0:01:08 > 0:01:11I was like, "I did that."
0:01:11 > 0:01:17I couldn't believe it. Not my lad. That's what I thought. Not my lad.
0:01:17 > 0:01:19What were your immediate thoughts?
0:01:22 > 0:01:24Uh-oh. What have I done?
0:01:25 > 0:01:29'Every day, hundreds of kids like Jamie and Dean
0:01:29 > 0:01:35'are putting themselves and their families at risk by playing with fire.
0:01:36 > 0:01:44'This is the story of three of them and the attempts being made to stop them before it's too late.'
0:02:01 > 0:02:06Well, it started off really with...paper. Paper.
0:02:06 > 0:02:10Bed, bedding, books. Then toilet paper.
0:02:10 > 0:02:14- And then it was my kitchen. - What, the whole kitchen?
0:02:14 > 0:02:20No, it was my kitchen work surface. I left my lighters in the kitchen and he messed around with them.
0:02:20 > 0:02:25I woke up to my smoke alarms going off at half five in the morning.
0:02:25 > 0:02:29Ran to the kitchen and there was a ball of fire on my work surface.
0:02:29 > 0:02:33- When was this? - This was a good few months ago now.
0:02:33 > 0:02:37- Was the kitchen fire the last thing?- No.
0:02:37 > 0:02:42- He's been lighting his mattress, putting burn holes in his mattress. - In HIS mattress?- Yeah.
0:02:42 > 0:02:47When do you think was the most recent incident of fire setting?
0:02:47 > 0:02:49Em, last Sunday.
0:03:01 > 0:03:04This is where he sat and burned holes in his mattress.
0:03:04 > 0:03:07They've started going through.
0:03:07 > 0:03:09And here...
0:03:10 > 0:03:15- Is that like him slashing it? - This is where he cut it in temper.
0:03:17 > 0:03:22Obviously, I don't want to replace it and buy him a new one
0:03:22 > 0:03:27when he can't look after the one he's got. So I am worried, really.
0:03:27 > 0:03:33- Is that another...? - That's where he's burnt the sheet and he's drawn all over it.
0:03:33 > 0:03:39I think sometimes he's trying to get out why, obviously, the way he's feeling.
0:03:39 > 0:03:45But he doesn't talk to anyone. I say if he doesn't want to talk, then just write on a bit of paper
0:03:45 > 0:03:51how he's feeling or what's bothering him and we can talk about it, but he doesn't.
0:03:51 > 0:03:56He tends to bottle a lot of things up rather than talk to anyone about it.
0:03:57 > 0:03:59It's locked!
0:04:00 > 0:04:03You helped yourself to a yoghurt?
0:04:03 > 0:04:04Yeah.
0:04:04 > 0:04:06Ah-ah-ah!
0:04:06 > 0:04:08Feet out of that.
0:04:09 > 0:04:13Come on. The TV's going on for you. Quick.
0:04:13 > 0:04:16Let's go. Come on, then.
0:04:17 > 0:04:19Come on. Let's go downstairs.
0:04:22 > 0:04:26- Do you think you've got a pretty special mum?- Yes.
0:04:26 > 0:04:28I think you do, too.
0:04:28 > 0:04:32- And do you give her an easy time? - Sometimes.- Yeah?
0:04:35 > 0:04:37CHILD CRIES
0:04:37 > 0:04:41- That's what Mum has to handle every day after school.- Really?
0:04:44 > 0:04:48- Do you think it's quite hard for her being a mum?- Yeah.
0:04:49 > 0:04:52What's it like being a 10-year-old?
0:04:52 > 0:04:55- Turning eleven.- Turning eleven.
0:04:56 > 0:05:02- Em, a bit hard because you've got a lot of responsibility on you.- Yeah?
0:05:02 > 0:05:05What kind of responsibility?
0:05:06 > 0:05:12Like sometimes you have to take your little sister into bed and I don't like doing that.
0:05:12 > 0:05:14You have to be...
0:05:14 > 0:05:19back home on time. And I don't like doing that.
0:05:19 > 0:05:21Em...
0:05:22 > 0:05:26Cleaning out the litter tray. I do not like that cos it stinks.
0:05:27 > 0:05:29Em...and...
0:05:29 > 0:05:32..making sure my mum's all right.
0:05:32 > 0:05:38- And do you understand why she might be a bit worried about the fire setting stuff?- Yeah,
0:05:38 > 0:05:44cos she might wonder if one day if it happens I might set the whole house on fire.
0:05:44 > 0:05:49Is that something you worry about as well?
0:05:52 > 0:05:55But you're not sure why you do it?
0:06:10 > 0:06:15Good afternoon. Joanna Foster speaking. Hi, Neil, how are you?
0:06:15 > 0:06:22She said that there was a fire setting incident on Friday. He set fire to his mattress.
0:06:22 > 0:06:29'Most Fire Brigades have special units which work with kids who are setting fires
0:06:29 > 0:06:35- 'and help families understand why this is happening.' - And what did he use?
0:06:35 > 0:06:43'The London unit is headed by Joanna Foster, a specialist in child and adolescent mental health.'
0:06:43 > 0:06:46All right. OK, how old's the child?
0:06:47 > 0:06:51I take it she didn't say anything like this had happened before?
0:06:51 > 0:06:55'90% of the kids they help never set fires again.'
0:06:55 > 0:07:00- OK, I'll call you...- 'They take on over 30 new cases every month.'
0:07:04 > 0:07:06This is my bedroom.
0:07:09 > 0:07:12This is a burn mark on the floor.
0:07:12 > 0:07:15There's a little burn mark on the floor
0:07:15 > 0:07:21where I set fire to all the matches in my room, which wasn't very good.
0:07:21 > 0:07:25I got an aerosol can and sprayed it, like, round here.
0:07:26 > 0:07:28And then lit it.
0:07:28 > 0:07:31And then it was just going up.
0:07:31 > 0:07:33This is the garden.
0:07:33 > 0:07:37And then there's a burn mark on there as well.
0:07:37 > 0:07:42- So is it just that you do it quite continuously?- Yeah.
0:07:43 > 0:07:46Like other people drink and smoke.
0:07:46 > 0:07:49I just, like, set fires to things.
0:07:50 > 0:07:54And can you describe to me what you like about fire?
0:07:54 > 0:07:58I don't know. I just think it's, like,
0:07:58 > 0:08:03I like taking control of, like, how it will end up.
0:08:03 > 0:08:08So, like, I can take control if I wanted my room to burn down.
0:08:08 > 0:08:14Or I can take control if I just want it to be a little fire that I can just stomp out
0:08:14 > 0:08:18whenever I want to. I think that's what it is.
0:08:30 > 0:08:35'I have been thinking it's my fault. I've made her this way.
0:08:35 > 0:08:39'I've brought it upon her. I'm always thinking,
0:08:39 > 0:08:42'"What if...? Did I...?
0:08:42 > 0:08:45'"What if...? Did I...?"'
0:08:45 > 0:08:49If someone said to me, "Yes, it's your fault,"
0:08:50 > 0:08:55I'd think I'd failed as a mother. I'd failed as a human being.
0:09:03 > 0:09:09- Do you understand why your mum is worried?- Yeah, cos fire's not exactly the safest thing to be playing with.
0:09:09 > 0:09:14That's right. That's good. That's a start, at least.
0:09:14 > 0:09:18One thing that Mum did say was you actually find fire fascinating.
0:09:18 > 0:09:23- Do you think Andy and I find fire fascinating?- No.
0:09:23 > 0:09:29That's the first thing you've got wrong. We work in the Fire Service because fire IS fascinating.
0:09:29 > 0:09:33It's OK to like fire and be fascinated by it.
0:09:33 > 0:09:38But what we need is the difference between, "That was interesting,"
0:09:38 > 0:09:41and actually playing with it.
0:09:43 > 0:09:48- Are we ready then, Li?- Not yet. - You've got to make a move. Come on.
0:09:52 > 0:09:54All right.
0:09:59 > 0:10:04- Hello, Liam. That seat there is your one.- Especially for you.
0:10:04 > 0:10:10Let's draw... Yeah, faces and what's on our mind.
0:10:12 > 0:10:17- I cannot draw good hair. - What's not good about that?
0:10:17 > 0:10:20That's your mum. Can't be that bad.
0:10:23 > 0:10:26Is that on your mind? Why?
0:10:26 > 0:10:27Mm.
0:10:29 > 0:10:35So I'm wondering why, Liam, why have you set fires before?
0:10:35 > 0:10:41- I don't know, but there's one where I burnt my mattress.- Burnt your mattress? What happened there?
0:10:41 > 0:10:47I was annoyed because my mum was telling me off so many times.
0:10:47 > 0:10:50So I went up into my room
0:10:50 > 0:10:53and I set fire to it,
0:10:53 > 0:10:58- but I only did a little bit and made holes.- OK.
0:10:58 > 0:11:02So just that one time? Or have there been other times?
0:11:02 > 0:11:05- There's been no other times. - No other times.
0:11:07 > 0:11:12So you say that Mum's worried when you've played with fire before
0:11:12 > 0:11:17and I know how you felt before, setting a fire. You were annoyed with Mum.
0:11:17 > 0:11:22- How do you feel afterwards when you've done it?- Scared.
0:11:22 > 0:11:28Cos it might... It might set alight.
0:11:28 > 0:11:32Scared. Is it a nice feeling to be scared?
0:11:32 > 0:11:34- It's not, is it? No.- No.
0:11:34 > 0:11:40So we need to get Liam in a place where he's not scared
0:11:40 > 0:11:46because he's not playing with fire any more. Do you think we'll be able to do it?
0:11:46 > 0:11:49- Probably.- I think so.
0:11:49 > 0:11:51I think we can.
0:11:56 > 0:12:00I spy with my little eye something beginning with B.
0:12:00 > 0:12:03- B? Bricks?- No.
0:12:03 > 0:12:04Em...
0:12:07 > 0:12:09Come on!
0:12:10 > 0:12:12I don't... Blue?
0:12:12 > 0:12:15- No.- I give up.- A bee.
0:12:15 > 0:12:20- I can't see a bee!- But I can! - That's cheating!- But I can!
0:12:33 > 0:12:39Why is it so difficult when I ask you to do something that you can't do it straight away?
0:12:39 > 0:12:43- Cos I have to think of where I put it.- D'you know, don't bother.
0:12:45 > 0:12:50She might need to learn to use a washing machine.
0:12:50 > 0:12:55- I'm bringing them, Mum! - I've put it on now. Too late. - What do you mean?!
0:12:55 > 0:12:59I put it on. You can do your own laundry.
0:12:59 > 0:13:06- Oh, you're so...! You tell me to bring the laundry in, yeah? - How long ago?- No, no, no.
0:13:06 > 0:13:10And then you go and put it on. I was bringing it! Why do you...?
0:13:10 > 0:13:15How long have I been at home? How many times have I asked you?
0:13:16 > 0:13:18Not when it suits you, Hulya.
0:13:21 > 0:13:23For God's sake.
0:13:26 > 0:13:30Oh, God. I'm not handling things very well.
0:13:30 > 0:13:35- Is that a typical discussion? - Yeah. That's how it goes.
0:13:35 > 0:13:41- And when I end up walking away, she says I'm right.- Did I say that? - No, you do tend to say that.
0:13:41 > 0:13:46- But did I say that now? - Funny how you can hear what I say,
0:13:46 > 0:13:50but when I ask you to do something I have to call you 20 times.
0:13:50 > 0:13:54You're 40 years old. Don't act like a child.
0:13:55 > 0:14:00I just want to wring her neck when she's like that.
0:14:08 > 0:14:12- Would you like to get on with her better?- Yeah.
0:14:12 > 0:14:18- How do you think that can happen? - I think we both need to, like, calm down with arguments and stuff
0:14:18 > 0:14:26- and, like, understand each other more.- Would you like to be able to speak to her more
0:14:26 > 0:14:30- and for her to chat to you more? - Yeah, but like...
0:14:30 > 0:14:36I'd like to talk to her more, but not nosying in each other's business, like.
0:14:36 > 0:14:41Obviously, it's her duty to, like, know what I'm up to and stuff,
0:14:41 > 0:14:45but there's some things that you don't really tell your parents.
0:14:45 > 0:14:49She said, "For God's sake, do I have to tell you everything?"
0:14:49 > 0:14:56I said, "Yeah, because I'd like to know what's going on in your life and for you not to keep any secrets."
0:14:56 > 0:15:00I know she's 14, going on 15
0:15:00 > 0:15:03and she is going to have boyfriends.
0:15:04 > 0:15:07But she's still my baby.
0:15:07 > 0:15:12And I'd like to keep her innocence as much as I can.
0:15:16 > 0:15:22I've always said I had such a strict upbringing, I'd never do that with my kids,
0:15:22 > 0:15:26but no mother wants her child to get into trouble.
0:15:31 > 0:15:35I just think it's because she had a strict upbringing
0:15:35 > 0:15:43and I think she's a bit, like, not ashamed, but if our family in Turkey found out, like,
0:15:43 > 0:15:47that I go out and, like, stuff and that,
0:15:47 > 0:15:51I don't know. My nan doesn't think that it's right I go out.
0:15:51 > 0:15:57She thinks I should stay at home and help with the cooking and cleaning. She said that to me.
0:15:57 > 0:16:01And my mum just stood there and not said anything.
0:16:01 > 0:16:05I think deep down that's what my mum wants me to do. Stay home and help.
0:16:16 > 0:16:21Are you quite hard on yourself? Do you set yourself high targets?
0:16:21 > 0:16:26Yeah, it depends. It depends if it's something I'm quite passionate about
0:16:26 > 0:16:29then I'd have quite high targets.
0:16:30 > 0:16:33So that's good to have that passion,
0:16:33 > 0:16:35but what we can't have is...
0:16:36 > 0:16:42the source of making you feel better or responding to that is to set fires.
0:16:42 > 0:16:48And this leads me into, Hulya, the part of your mum's questionnaire,
0:16:48 > 0:16:52Mum said you get angry sometimes, especially with teachers
0:16:52 > 0:16:56or your mum or nan. And sometimes you're cruel to your brother.
0:16:56 > 0:17:03But what she also talked about was Mum thinks... that you self-harm.
0:17:04 > 0:17:08- Yeah, I do. - OK. What do you do?
0:17:08 > 0:17:13Just like...cut my arms, really. That's about it.
0:17:15 > 0:17:20- What do you use to cut your arms? - Just anything sharp I can find.
0:17:22 > 0:17:26And is this something that you do at the moment?
0:17:26 > 0:17:30Yeah, but I haven't done it, like, I haven't done it recently.
0:17:30 > 0:17:34It's been, like, a couple of weeks since I've done it.
0:17:34 > 0:17:38What reasons have you self-harmed before?
0:17:38 > 0:17:42I just like... It could be an argument and my mum said something
0:17:42 > 0:17:47and it's just made me feel really bad about myself.
0:17:47 > 0:17:54It's usually my nan as well. She can make me feel really self-conscious or bad about myself.
0:17:54 > 0:17:59It could just be a little thing someone said that could be a joke, but I take it seriously.
0:17:59 > 0:18:04But I'd laugh about it, but inside be quite hurt.
0:18:09 > 0:18:14Something's not good and that's your way of coping.
0:18:14 > 0:18:21We need to think of ways that you can cope with it that's not harmful to you.
0:18:28 > 0:18:32Please, welcome back into your own living room.
0:18:32 > 0:18:35It's actually been, I'm sure, for you
0:18:35 > 0:18:38quite a prolonged session.
0:18:38 > 0:18:44So don't be surprised if afterwards, even if you don't think you do, you might want a great big hug
0:18:44 > 0:18:48or something nice to chill out to do.
0:18:54 > 0:19:00- You know what she said about giving your mum a big hug? - That's not gonna happen.- Why not?
0:19:00 > 0:19:03- I don't do hugs.- Really?- Yeah.
0:19:03 > 0:19:05Never?
0:19:05 > 0:19:07On the rare occasion.
0:19:08 > 0:19:12I just... I just don't see the point.
0:19:12 > 0:19:14- Really?- Yeah.
0:19:15 > 0:19:19Sometimes do you wish you could give her a hug?
0:19:19 > 0:19:21Er...
0:19:21 > 0:19:22Sometimes.
0:19:24 > 0:19:30- Not all the time, but sometimes. - Do you think she wants to give you a big hug?- She's probably too busy
0:19:30 > 0:19:33cleaning up the kitchen or...
0:19:35 > 0:19:39When Joanna left and she said that maybe Hulya would need a big hug,
0:19:39 > 0:19:43- is this something that doesn't happen in this house?- No.
0:19:45 > 0:19:47Only because she really...
0:19:49 > 0:19:51..pushes me...
0:19:51 > 0:19:57I just don't like hugs, really. They're a bit claustrophobic, actually.
0:19:57 > 0:20:00SHE SIGHS
0:20:20 > 0:20:25- So what are you playing at?- One game of pool, two games of darts. - Fair enough.
0:20:25 > 0:20:28Can I do the break?
0:20:29 > 0:20:32That'll be the one. Take your time.
0:20:32 > 0:20:35- Oh, wow! Lots.- Two!
0:20:35 > 0:20:37Oh, yes!
0:20:38 > 0:20:43- Hard luck.- 'Ryan has been setting fires since the age of seven
0:20:43 > 0:20:49- 'and has recently been referred to Somerset and Devon Fire Service.' - Oh, come on! That's cheating.
0:20:49 > 0:20:52You're dead lucky.
0:20:53 > 0:20:55Cheating little shit.
0:21:01 > 0:21:04I set my mum's coat on fire,
0:21:04 > 0:21:09I set my bed sheets on fire, I set my posters on fire,
0:21:09 > 0:21:13I set the floor...sort of melted something into the floor.
0:21:13 > 0:21:16I set boxes on fire and that's it.
0:21:17 > 0:21:22- Do you feel that you were in control of that fire?- Yeah.
0:21:22 > 0:21:26- And do you feel you would still be?- Yeah.
0:21:26 > 0:21:30So how would you feel if you had a box of matches or a lighter
0:21:30 > 0:21:34and you were just watching TV and you dropped it on your bed?
0:21:34 > 0:21:40- How would you feel if it went up and you couldn't get out? - I'd jump out the window.
0:21:40 > 0:21:44- I don't reckon I'll get hurt by fire.- Invincible(!)
0:21:44 > 0:21:51- No, Mum, shut up. - Why do you think that?- I just don't think I'll get hurt by fire.
0:21:51 > 0:21:55So this is like in a big aircraft hangar.
0:21:55 > 0:22:00And it's a room that has obviously been constructed
0:22:00 > 0:22:05and the fire starts on the settee. The clock's rolling.
0:22:09 > 0:22:16- So by about a minute now... - The sofa's on fire.- ..you've got quite a big fire there.- Yeah.
0:22:16 > 0:22:21I would say you'd struggle to put that out, even with an extinguisher.
0:22:21 > 0:22:25If you look at that lampshade on the shelf at the back...
0:22:25 > 0:22:31- Yeah.- ..that will start to melt soon and smoke.
0:22:31 > 0:22:37Now we're really getting some heat going in the room. Several hundred degrees.
0:22:37 > 0:22:43Even if you weren't being burnt, you wouldn't be able to stay in there. Two and a half minutes.
0:22:43 > 0:22:48And then you get the flame coming across and the smoke.
0:22:51 > 0:22:55- How do you think you'd get out of that?- I know I'd get out.
0:22:55 > 0:22:59- I would get out.- You think so? - I'd jump out my window.
0:22:59 > 0:23:05- Everyone thinks maybe they can, but when it's...- Yeah, the heat.
0:23:05 > 0:23:08When you're not expecting it.
0:23:11 > 0:23:18- Could you see how one of your fires could start something like that? - Yeah. My curtains.
0:23:18 > 0:23:20- Yeah.- That could have happened.
0:23:22 > 0:23:25So how do you feel, safety-wise?
0:23:25 > 0:23:31- And do you feel that you can trust Ryan? - I do trust him.
0:23:31 > 0:23:35It's just if I'm going out, I wonder, "Have I left a burner on?"
0:23:35 > 0:23:43- If you wanted to light one of those, you could find a way.- How?- The toaster. I'd light a bit of tissue.
0:23:43 > 0:23:44Hmm.
0:23:52 > 0:23:59If I say I don't want dinner, I don't bloody want dinner! You don't listen, do you?
0:24:03 > 0:24:07It's OK. This is every day. Honestly, every day.
0:24:09 > 0:24:14- Are you feeling quite frustrated? - Yeah. Mum's really annoying.
0:24:15 > 0:24:17I hate her.
0:24:19 > 0:24:23- What is it that you find so annoying?- Don't know.
0:24:23 > 0:24:25My mum, really.
0:24:26 > 0:24:29What do you like about your bedroom?
0:24:29 > 0:24:31It's quiet.
0:24:42 > 0:24:45Is this where you come to escape?
0:24:47 > 0:24:48Yeah.
0:24:48 > 0:24:55- You tell me you're bored.- Yeah. - What do you think you could do to be less bored?
0:24:55 > 0:24:58There's nothing to do in this house.
0:24:58 > 0:25:01There's nothing to do in Ilfracombe.
0:25:04 > 0:25:10- How does it make you feel when you've done the fires? - A little less bored.
0:25:11 > 0:25:15- How long does that last? - About 10 minutes.
0:25:15 > 0:25:17Then I just get bored again.
0:25:48 > 0:25:55Yesterday, the chicken tikka and rice. I was quite impressed, actually.
0:25:55 > 0:26:01- What did she do yesterday?- I asked her to chop up some chicken breasts so I can make a curry.
0:26:01 > 0:26:06She took it upon herself to make a chicken tikka with rice.
0:26:06 > 0:26:12First time I think she's done something really selfless, which is nice. And I felt proud of her.
0:26:12 > 0:26:17And I did say that to her. And her talking about not getting hugs,
0:26:17 > 0:26:21I gave her a hug and said, "I love you. Thank you."
0:26:21 > 0:26:25I don't know whether she believed me. That's another story. But yeah.
0:26:25 > 0:26:32It's weird because when you give a child a hug when they've been misbehaving for such a long time,
0:26:32 > 0:26:34it's like they're floating.
0:26:34 > 0:26:38Their manner changes. I can't explain it.
0:26:38 > 0:26:43She was really different. Like floating on air. I don't know. Really different.
0:26:43 > 0:26:48But after an hour, it changed cos she got in a ruckus with her brother.
0:26:48 > 0:26:53So it was nice to have that one hour of "nice", niceness.
0:27:02 > 0:27:06TELEPHONE RINGS Good afternoon, Joanna Foster.
0:27:06 > 0:27:10- Hi, Joanna, it's Nuran. - Hello. How are you?- Well, I'm OK.
0:27:10 > 0:27:14- We had a little incident on Saturday.- OK, what happened?
0:27:14 > 0:27:19- She's done a sparkler at home. - Right, OK.- She lit a sparkler.
0:27:19 > 0:27:25- And she dropped it in front of the kitchen on the carpet.- Right. - So I've got a massive burn on there.
0:27:25 > 0:27:32And she didn't have the decency to phone and tell me. And she just couldn't give me any reasons.
0:27:32 > 0:27:37She said, "I just did it." Well, she apologised, but it means nothing.
0:27:37 > 0:27:43I'm shocked. I'm not as enraged as you because it's not my home, but I am really shocked.
0:27:43 > 0:27:46She'd been doing so well.
0:28:01 > 0:28:05- So, Hulya, I know there was an incident.- Yeah.
0:28:05 > 0:28:07- What happened?- Basically...
0:28:09 > 0:28:11I found some sparklers.
0:28:11 > 0:28:13Shut up!
0:28:13 > 0:28:16I found some sparklers...
0:28:17 > 0:28:19and...
0:28:19 > 0:28:21I was like, "Look what I've found!"
0:28:22 > 0:28:25And then I lit it.
0:28:27 > 0:28:30And then...I kind of, like,
0:28:31 > 0:28:35dropped it. And it kind of burnt the carpet.
0:28:36 > 0:28:39She was, like, standing there.
0:28:39 > 0:28:44And then...she was kind of holding it and it just dropped
0:28:44 > 0:28:49and she just stared at it and was like, "Oh, my God!"
0:28:49 > 0:28:55- How do you drop a sparkler? - I don't know. I was waving it about and then it dropped.
0:28:55 > 0:28:58I know I'm laughing, but it's not funny.
0:29:00 > 0:29:03I'm really angry with myself.
0:29:36 > 0:29:38Ryan? You getting ready now?
0:29:38 > 0:29:41I left you a bit later.
0:29:41 > 0:29:44- OK?- Yes!
0:29:45 > 0:29:52- 'As well as starting fires, Ryan has been truanting for the past few years.'- Go away!- Five minutes.
0:29:54 > 0:29:59Ryan, get ready, please. Ryan, it's quarter to nine. Ryan?
0:29:59 > 0:30:01Hurry up, please.
0:30:01 > 0:30:05- Fuck off!- You've got to get up! Don't keep swearing at me!
0:30:05 > 0:30:10I tell you, stay on bed all day and don't bloody come out!
0:30:11 > 0:30:16He'll just use any excuse he can so he doesn't have to go to school.
0:30:17 > 0:30:22All the time. Honestly, he does. He does not want to go to school.
0:30:22 > 0:30:29I don't know. I'd to turn around and ask them to put him into boarding school so he'd have to go to school.
0:30:34 > 0:30:36THUMPING
0:30:36 > 0:30:38Ryan, no!
0:30:40 > 0:30:43THEY ARGUE Give me the hockey stick!
0:30:43 > 0:30:47Give me the hockey stick! You're in deep trouble, boy.
0:30:48 > 0:30:50Bye, Ryan!
0:30:50 > 0:30:51Bye!
0:30:51 > 0:30:54See you later!
0:30:56 > 0:30:58Fuck off.
0:31:00 > 0:31:05- You are going to school.- Wanna bet? - Why not?- Cos I'm not.
0:31:05 > 0:31:09- Why?- Cos I'm fucking not! - Stop it!- Fuck off!
0:31:09 > 0:31:12- You'll go.- I'm not.- You will.
0:31:17 > 0:31:23- Did he get away with it?- What? - Did he just get away with it? - I put him in a taxi.
0:31:23 > 0:31:27He said he'd belt one of the teachers. Honestly, he did.
0:31:27 > 0:31:33- He won't do it.- He'll chuck a chair at them, knock it over. He does things like that.
0:31:34 > 0:31:40If Ryan was mine, he would be six foot under. I wouldn't take none of that.
0:31:40 > 0:31:44He would be having the hidings. I don't care what anyone says.
0:31:44 > 0:31:48Sometimes in Anna's case, she would tell the children off.
0:31:48 > 0:31:53But five minutes later she would laugh and joke with them over it.
0:31:53 > 0:31:58- I've told her that's where she's going wrong. Is that right?- Yeah.
0:31:58 > 0:32:05If you tell a child off, you don't sit and laugh with them because then they think it's all right.
0:32:05 > 0:32:11I'm not laughing at what they've done. I'd joke with them. I can't hold a grudge, can I?
0:32:11 > 0:32:13Well, I can't.
0:32:15 > 0:32:21What do you expect will happen? Will he walk through the door?
0:32:21 > 0:32:26No, he'll be down here by 20 to 11. He'll be back by about 20 to 11.
0:32:26 > 0:32:30And I'm usually, give or take 10 minutes, right.
0:32:30 > 0:32:33- And that happens most days? - Most days.
0:32:39 > 0:32:45I am doing everything I possibly can to get him to go to school and it's really, really difficult
0:32:45 > 0:32:50cos he just doesn't want to go. He's always had a problem with school.
0:32:51 > 0:32:58I think he's afraid he might miss out on something if he's not at home watching me, if that makes any sense.
0:32:58 > 0:33:04- Do you think he's quite protecting of you?- I don't know why. I can take care of myself.
0:33:04 > 0:33:08Everybody says he's a cling-on. He clings on. I don't know why.
0:33:08 > 0:33:14I don't ask him to follow me. Do you not think that's a bit strange?
0:33:14 > 0:33:20I've always said it's a thing called separation anxiety. That's what I said years ago.
0:33:20 > 0:33:26He used to hang on to me anywhere I went and he'd kick and scream when I'd gone.
0:33:26 > 0:33:32I honestly don't know why. He'd stiffen up and go rigid. Really, really bad.
0:33:32 > 0:33:38- He's never had a father figure. - Do you think that's an issue? - It's just a fact.
0:33:38 > 0:33:44He's been brought up in a house with all women. Me, my sisters when they come down,
0:33:44 > 0:33:48his sisters and stuff. I think that's what it is, I really do.
0:33:48 > 0:33:52And he's fighting for control. He's younger than anybody here.
0:33:52 > 0:33:57How can I put it? I think sometimes he feels pushed away or pushed aside.
0:33:57 > 0:34:00But it's not so. It's just how he is.
0:34:18 > 0:34:26I don't want it to feel like a summons, but there's a reason why you're here. How did your mum react?
0:34:26 > 0:34:32She's not very happy, obviously. I thought she'd be a bit more, like, kind of shouty,
0:34:32 > 0:34:37but she kind of... she wasn't like that at all, really.
0:34:37 > 0:34:41- I think she was, like, more disappointed than angry.- Right.
0:34:41 > 0:34:46We're disappointed, too. We thought we were making such good progress
0:34:46 > 0:34:51and to have that kind of setback is a real shame. What we'll do first
0:34:51 > 0:34:55is there's a series of cards with things written on them.
0:34:55 > 0:35:01All of them may be reasons why you play with fire. So think for a moment
0:35:01 > 0:35:05and which of those do you think have applied to you at any stage?
0:35:10 > 0:35:13- And kind of... - Kind of curious. OK.
0:35:14 > 0:35:18So we've got three things - curious, bored and to get Mum's attention.
0:35:19 > 0:35:20So...
0:35:20 > 0:35:23over to you.
0:35:23 > 0:35:29Somehow it seems like Mum's a bit busy with other things, other people.
0:35:29 > 0:35:33I kind of have to bring the attention back down to me.
0:35:33 > 0:35:35If that makes any sense.
0:35:35 > 0:35:40- Yeah.- It makes a lot of sense. - Even if it's bad attention.
0:35:40 > 0:35:45After that, she'll just be, like, putting a bit more attention on me,
0:35:45 > 0:35:49so she can see, like, what I'm doing right and what I'm doing wrong.
0:35:50 > 0:35:52Yeah.
0:35:52 > 0:35:58So does this incident, the sparklers, come under this category, do you think?
0:35:59 > 0:36:06- You think Mum's going to have to find out.- Yeah.- But you're thinking that's not so bad after all.
0:36:06 > 0:36:10- Is that it?- When I found out that my mum had found out,
0:36:10 > 0:36:15I didn't want to go home, but I was kind of looking forward to it so we could talk.
0:36:15 > 0:36:21Do you know what it is that you did want to talk to your mum about? Was it something specific?
0:36:21 > 0:36:26- Just talk.- Do you get much time to talk with your mum?
0:36:26 > 0:36:30She's always busy with other things. We barely get to talk.
0:36:30 > 0:36:31OK.
0:36:59 > 0:37:05- Hello, Ryan. How are you doing? - Wait and talk.- Mum, I'm going! Just fuck off!
0:37:06 > 0:37:12- Stop being such a fucking...! - Going to talk to us, Ryan? - No.- You are?
0:37:17 > 0:37:21It's difficult now because he's done a runner.
0:37:23 > 0:37:29It's OK. He does this all the time. It's what you call attention seeking, all the time, constantly.
0:37:29 > 0:37:33It's all to do with the same problem. He's frustrated,
0:37:33 > 0:37:40he's got no outlet that's productive. All he can do is smash things up and get angry.
0:37:40 > 0:37:44He makes out like butter wouldn't melt in his mouth. He's no angel.
0:37:44 > 0:37:52- It's only me. He's horrible to me constantly.- You certainly, I think, sometimes wind each other up.
0:37:52 > 0:37:55Yeah, we do. It's more him than me.
0:37:55 > 0:38:01- Yeah, but I mean... because he's the child.- Yeah. And I shouldn't act like a child.
0:38:03 > 0:38:09'It's not unusual for kids to go through a phase of resisting the Fire Service sessions.
0:38:09 > 0:38:13'The policy is to bide time until the children are ready.'
0:38:19 > 0:38:23- Do you not like it when people try to help you?- Yeah.
0:38:23 > 0:38:27- You do like it?- I know I won't get nowhere in life. I'm not bothered.
0:38:27 > 0:38:31- That's not true, is it? - Yeah, I think so.
0:38:31 > 0:38:34- Ryan, I know that's not true. - It is.
0:38:34 > 0:38:36EXPLOSION FROM COMPUTER GAME
0:38:36 > 0:38:38Fuck sake!
0:38:38 > 0:38:43- So you've given up on your life already at the age of 14?- Yeah.
0:38:43 > 0:38:49- Do you feel guilty that people do things for you and you don't...? - No, cos it's their fault.
0:38:49 > 0:38:55It's their job, but I'm not bothered. They're wasting their time, basically.
0:39:11 > 0:39:17This is a girl who wants things to get better. She wants a better relationship.
0:39:17 > 0:39:20We know she wants to stop fire setting.
0:39:20 > 0:39:27- Even if you think she's grinning and bearing it, she doesn't have to. - Sometimes I have my doubts.
0:39:27 > 0:39:34But I suppose I'm speaking as her mother. I know how she is and her temperament.
0:39:34 > 0:39:38I'm probably seeing the worst and not the good in her.
0:39:38 > 0:39:43That's unfortunately part of her testing her relationship with you, her identity.
0:39:43 > 0:39:49I think Hulya needs to... be allowed to be the teenager
0:39:49 > 0:39:51that she has to be.
0:39:53 > 0:39:57I've worked with a lot of young people, a lot of teenagers,
0:39:57 > 0:40:03and we often kind of believe that they are doing what they do to get attention from someone.
0:40:03 > 0:40:07It's a very powerful way to do it. Hulya's the first person
0:40:07 > 0:40:12who has said to me quite directly, "I do it because I want attention from Mum."
0:40:12 > 0:40:17What also stood out in terms of being that direct was she said
0:40:17 > 0:40:21even if that's bad attention.
0:40:21 > 0:40:24This will be difficult to hear.
0:40:24 > 0:40:27I'm actually quite surprised about the attention.
0:40:27 > 0:40:33She gets my attention when she tries to self-harm and what have you,
0:40:33 > 0:40:39but to actually do the two, it's really, as a mum, hard to comprehend.
0:40:39 > 0:40:41It really is.
0:40:41 > 0:40:43Of course.
0:40:43 > 0:40:48She wants a good relationship with you. Of course she does.
0:40:48 > 0:40:52And she wants that mother-daughter time.
0:40:52 > 0:40:56You've got to learn, both of you, to be in each other's company
0:40:56 > 0:41:02without it being warring. So don't get disheartened if she says, "I don't want to do that."
0:41:02 > 0:41:09Because maybe she doesn't want to, like you, think, "I don't want any argument.
0:41:09 > 0:41:15"I'm going to resist." And that's where you as the adult have to say, "Come on, let's do it."
0:41:17 > 0:41:22What's your relationship now with your mum, for example?
0:41:22 > 0:41:25It's OK. It has its moments.
0:41:25 > 0:41:26Mmm.
0:41:26 > 0:41:32And I know Hulya loves her grandmother, but as she's got older she's resenting her more
0:41:32 > 0:41:36because my mum tends to poke her nose in where it's not wanted.
0:41:36 > 0:41:43And we definitely think that Nan especially doesn't give her freedom or permission to be a young,
0:41:43 > 0:41:49in many ways western girl. And the conflict between trying to keep you happy,
0:41:49 > 0:41:54trying to keep her nan happy and she did say that...
0:41:54 > 0:41:59there's times when almost she wants you to be on her side.
0:41:59 > 0:42:03She said, "Mum sits there and just laughs."
0:42:07 > 0:42:11I just...I don't know what to say about that.
0:42:11 > 0:42:15I'm in a world...
0:42:16 > 0:42:18in my family thing,
0:42:18 > 0:42:24where I try and please everyone, but I don't seem to have pleased my daughter and that's horrible.
0:42:24 > 0:42:31There's something to be said about you cannot please all the people all the time. It's impossible
0:42:31 > 0:42:38because somewhere along the line somebody will feel compromised and she does have issues of self-esteem
0:42:38 > 0:42:43and self-worth, which is where the self-harm comes from.
0:43:14 > 0:43:20- I just walked in from the shop and you've started again.- You bought chocolate and I told you not to!
0:43:20 > 0:43:26- You fucking did!- You don't have to tell me what to buy and what not to buy! If I choose to get it, I will.
0:43:26 > 0:43:33- Just because I didn't get it at the time you said. I'll get it another time.- Shut the fuck up.
0:43:33 > 0:43:37- I'm not having it.- I've done it. You will have it.- Fuck off!
0:43:38 > 0:43:42Why is he so angry about this chocolate?
0:43:42 > 0:43:46If things aren't done at a time when he wants it done, he'll go off.
0:43:46 > 0:43:51For instance, when I open this egg, if it's not just how he likes it, he'll go mental.
0:43:51 > 0:43:54Totally mental. He'll go something chronic.
0:43:54 > 0:43:58- That's why I put three on.- What do you do to stop him from doing that?
0:43:58 > 0:44:04I ignore it. There's nothing you can do until he calms down himself. He just goes crazy.
0:44:06 > 0:44:08Ryan, what's going on?
0:44:12 > 0:44:14Why have you got so angry?
0:44:34 > 0:44:37What's going on? Are you OK?
0:44:37 > 0:44:38Yeah.
0:44:45 > 0:44:51- Why is he so angry?- He's angry at me and I don't know why. It's not my fault his dad's not there.
0:44:51 > 0:44:54I really don't know. I think, in my heart and soul,
0:44:54 > 0:44:59if he'd had his dad there all through his life, I don't think he'd be like that.
0:44:59 > 0:45:05I can't blame the situation that his dad's not there and stuff, but that's what I think.
0:45:05 > 0:45:08- Does he talk about his dad ever?- No.
0:45:08 > 0:45:11When you mention his dad, he says, "Don't talk about my dad."
0:45:11 > 0:45:14He goes off on one. So we don't talk about him.
0:45:16 > 0:45:19Has he ever got emotional?
0:45:20 > 0:45:21No.
0:45:21 > 0:45:25I think he's a bit like myself. I never get emotional.
0:45:25 > 0:45:31I think his emotions are all bottled up. That's why he's angry all the time. I'm sure of it.
0:45:32 > 0:45:37- Do you think you bottle up your emotions?- This is not about me, though, is it?
0:45:37 > 0:45:41- Yeah, but I'm just asking you. - I do, yes. I do very much. Yes.
0:45:42 > 0:45:48It's very hard to let people know exactly what I think, how I feel and what have you.
0:45:48 > 0:45:51I'm a fairly strange person as well.
0:46:03 > 0:46:10The last time when we were here and we were drawing together, do you remember?
0:46:10 > 0:46:13I said that my job was a very special job
0:46:13 > 0:46:16because I've got to keep you safe.
0:46:17 > 0:46:21And you said you were going to help me with that.
0:46:22 > 0:46:25And do you think you've done it?
0:46:25 > 0:46:28Hmm, I think so too.
0:46:29 > 0:46:33And what does it feel like to know you've helped me with that special job?
0:46:33 > 0:46:35Fine.
0:46:36 > 0:46:40Because I have to say it makes me feel brilliant.
0:46:40 > 0:46:43Is that how big a face is...
0:46:43 > 0:46:45a mouth is when you smile?
0:46:45 > 0:46:47Well, it feels like it.
0:46:47 > 0:46:50I'm feeling so happy, Liam.
0:46:50 > 0:46:53And how are you feeling?
0:46:53 > 0:46:55- Happy.- Happy.
0:46:57 > 0:47:03- And what's making you happy, Liam? - That I've kept a promise and I'm getting more attention.- Brilliant.
0:47:03 > 0:47:07I'm so proud of you. That's fantastic. Really, really good.
0:47:07 > 0:47:14I know I say it a lot. That's because I mean it. I'm so chuffed. That's terrific. You've done really well.
0:47:17 > 0:47:22How do you feel it's going so far with the Fire Service? Is it what you expected?
0:47:22 > 0:47:28It's going really well. Liam really enjoys it and he's opening up really well, which is good.
0:47:28 > 0:47:32He was setting fire to his mattresses cos he was cross with me
0:47:32 > 0:47:37over blaming him for things that Holly had done and he got upset.
0:47:37 > 0:47:40Sometimes he feels a bit left out
0:47:40 > 0:47:44and that I don't pay enough attention to him.
0:47:44 > 0:47:48That's why he starts setting fire to things
0:47:48 > 0:47:53and kicking off and just basically saying to me that he needs a bit more attention.
0:47:53 > 0:47:57It's good that he can actually talk to me about everything now.
0:48:08 > 0:48:11'Two weeks after walking out of his session,
0:48:11 > 0:48:16'Ryan has started attending meetings with the fire service again.'
0:48:16 > 0:48:18Kiss Mum, kiss.
0:48:18 > 0:48:21- See you later.- Love you. See ya.
0:48:21 > 0:48:27- Ryan, how long are you going to be? - What time do you want me back? - In a minute.- No!- Yeah.- Mum!
0:48:27 > 0:48:31- Listen, I want you back by two.- What time is it now?- It's half twelve.
0:48:31 > 0:48:35- Three o'clock.- I said two! - Three o'clock, thanks, Mum!
0:48:38 > 0:48:42- Do you think that your mums are strict enough with you?- Yeah.
0:48:43 > 0:48:49I reckon so. I don't know about Jason's mum because I don't live with her, but...
0:48:49 > 0:48:52My mum's a bit soft with me.
0:48:53 > 0:48:56- I reckon my mum could be a bit stricter, but...- Yeah.
0:48:56 > 0:49:01Sometimes you can get real frustrated like the other day.
0:49:01 > 0:49:04I don't know, probably I've got a short fuse, really.
0:49:04 > 0:49:08I just get really aggravated and angry really easy.
0:49:13 > 0:49:18- Is that something that you try and stop? - Yeah, I don't like shouting at Mum.
0:49:20 > 0:49:25My mum does everything herself. She never had a man do anything. She does it all herself.
0:49:25 > 0:49:30When I offer my mum help, she goes, "I ain't had a man for 22 years and I don't need one now."
0:49:30 > 0:49:36Even though my mum's got a boyfriend, she'll still do all the fixing stuff herself.
0:49:36 > 0:49:40Our swing outside broke. She'll fix that herself soon. So...
0:49:40 > 0:49:44- Do you feel quite proud of your mum?- Yeah.
0:49:44 > 0:49:46She's done well with us, I reckon.
0:49:47 > 0:49:51Do you understand why she takes the fire safety quite seriously?
0:49:51 > 0:49:54Yeah, cos I could kill everyone.
0:50:09 > 0:50:12HORNS TOOT
0:50:14 > 0:50:16I like these, look.
0:50:16 > 0:50:18A bit Cheryl Cole.
0:50:18 > 0:50:21Hulya, can you see me wearing them?
0:50:21 > 0:50:23You really are so frustrating.
0:50:23 > 0:50:25What about this, look, for you?
0:50:25 > 0:50:31- It's nice.- You'd walk down the street with me wearing that?- Yeah. "Look at my mum, she's so hot!"
0:50:43 > 0:50:48We talk about day-to-day things, like silly things, and make a joke,
0:50:48 > 0:50:52but when it comes to serious talk, she doesn't want to talk about it.
0:50:52 > 0:50:57She just shuts away and I think she doesn't like being questioned either.
0:50:57 > 0:51:00When I start questioning her, she gets a bit...
0:51:01 > 0:51:04Well, she shuts down, really.
0:51:04 > 0:51:06Do you think that's fair, Hulya?
0:51:06 > 0:51:08Yeah.
0:51:08 > 0:51:11Do you admit it?
0:51:12 > 0:51:13Ow!
0:51:14 > 0:51:17Thank you for admitting that. That's nice.
0:51:17 > 0:51:23You just don't... You don't ask appropriately or you're always in a mood, something like that.
0:51:23 > 0:51:26- Do I?- Yeah.
0:51:30 > 0:51:34Sorry about that, but I thought I was asking the right questions
0:51:34 > 0:51:40when I was asking when you come in, "What's the matter, why are you upset?"
0:51:40 > 0:51:43I don't know. I'm going wrong somewhere.
0:51:43 > 0:51:46You're just... You're just in your face, like.
0:51:47 > 0:51:50You think you ask calmly, yeah?
0:51:50 > 0:51:54In your head, it's all calm, but in real life, it's just like...
0:51:54 > 0:52:00You're like... It sounds really rude, but you're just like an animal let out of its cage.
0:52:00 > 0:52:03I'm just saying that's the way it is.
0:52:03 > 0:52:06- So I need to be tamed?- Yeah.
0:52:11 > 0:52:16All right. We've got a lot of work to do, but we'll get there.
0:52:16 > 0:52:19- Do you think you'll get there, - Hulya?
0:52:20 > 0:52:23It's a long road. That's all I can say.
0:52:23 > 0:52:29Well, you know what? Every road is a long road and at the end of it, you come to a destination.
0:52:30 > 0:52:36And how are you feeling, both of you, about the fire setting and the self-harming?
0:52:38 > 0:52:41As a mother, it's distressing.
0:52:41 > 0:52:47But I know that we're going to work through it and get through it.
0:52:48 > 0:52:52I'm hoping. I don't think she's done anything silly in a while
0:52:52 > 0:52:55which I'm very proud of and happy about.
0:52:58 > 0:53:00What about you, Hulya?
0:53:03 > 0:53:07I've found different... I've found different strategies
0:53:07 > 0:53:10to, um...take out my anger.
0:53:11 > 0:53:13- Yeah?- Yeah.
0:53:13 > 0:53:15Just like shutting my door.
0:53:15 > 0:53:18Turn up the volume on my music.
0:53:20 > 0:53:23And just ignoring everything my mum says.
0:53:25 > 0:53:28That's a good strategy.
0:53:28 > 0:53:30It's better than...
0:53:30 > 0:53:33hurting yourself, anyway.
0:53:36 > 0:53:39You know I love you, don't you?
0:53:39 > 0:53:41Yes, Mum!
0:53:41 > 0:53:43Good. Keep that in your mind.
0:53:43 > 0:53:49So every time we sort of agree to disagree, always have that in the back of your mind.
0:53:50 > 0:53:53I might do things because I love you.
0:53:54 > 0:53:59It makes me proud that I've got a 14-year-old who's as tall as me
0:53:59 > 0:54:03that I can just hug and say, "I'm proud of you and I love you."
0:54:03 > 0:54:08- You don't do that enough. - I know in the past I've had difficulty doing that,
0:54:08 > 0:54:12but lately, I'm finding it easier.
0:54:17 > 0:54:19Can we compare?
0:54:20 > 0:54:23I think that's near enough the same colour, isn't it?
0:54:23 > 0:54:26- No, mine's better.- OK.
0:54:26 > 0:54:29- Thank you ever so much, ladies. - Thank you.
0:54:29 > 0:54:34- I felt very, very pampered today, thank you. Have a nice evening. Bye-bye.- Thank you.
0:54:35 > 0:54:38Come here, you!
0:54:41 > 0:54:44- I've had a good day. Have you?- Yeah.- Yeah?
0:54:44 > 0:54:47I think it's been a good week.
0:54:49 > 0:54:51HULYA SIGHS
0:54:51 > 0:54:54SEAGULLS CRY
0:54:59 > 0:55:02These are actually quite good.
0:55:03 > 0:55:09'Having taken advice from the Fire Service, Anna has been attending parenting classes.'
0:55:09 > 0:55:13I always say, "Will you come down now?" Or, "Can you come down?"
0:55:13 > 0:55:16Instead of "I need you to come down", which makes more sense.
0:55:16 > 0:55:23Instead of saying, "You really piss me off," say, "I'm really angry when you do that. Can you not change it?"
0:55:23 > 0:55:25This "smiley" chart...
0:55:25 > 0:55:28That's for mood management which is very good.
0:55:28 > 0:55:34I make him a set of cards as well, so if he's in a mood, he'll have it on his jacket or jumper, so I'll know.
0:55:34 > 0:55:40I don't bother talking to him because if you talk to him when he's in one of his moods,
0:55:40 > 0:55:44it's effing and blinding and "leave me alone", blah-blah-blah.
0:55:44 > 0:55:46- Good morning.- Good morning.
0:55:46 > 0:55:50'And Ryan has agreed to make more of an effort to go to school.'
0:55:51 > 0:55:53Are you ready, Ry?
0:56:00 > 0:56:03Just a minute. Wait, wait, wait!
0:56:03 > 0:56:05Fudge, stay!
0:56:16 > 0:56:21Do you feel safer about setting fire since being with the Fire Service?
0:56:21 > 0:56:26- Do you feel like you're less likely to do it?- Yeah.
0:56:26 > 0:56:28And how did you feel on Friday?
0:56:28 > 0:56:33- What happened on Friday?- You went to school.- Yeah, it was all right.
0:56:33 > 0:56:37- Did you feel quite proud of yourself?- Yeah.
0:56:38 > 0:56:40I went along to five lessons.
0:56:40 > 0:56:46- Do you think you're feeling more positive about your future at the moment?- No.
0:56:46 > 0:56:51What do you think it would take for you to feel more positive about your future?
0:56:51 > 0:56:56Stay in the school for a whole month. No, like a whole year or something.
0:56:59 > 0:57:02- Can you imagine that ever happening?- Yeah.
0:57:04 > 0:57:08- Do you think your relationship with your mum is getting better?- Yeah.
0:57:08 > 0:57:12I'm becoming a bit better at school, better at home.
0:57:21 > 0:57:23Do you think you're growing up?
0:57:23 > 0:57:25I don't know.
0:57:26 > 0:57:29PURRING
0:58:21 > 0:58:25Subtitles by Subtext for Red Bee Media Ltd 2011
0:58:25 > 0:58:28Email subtitling@bbc.co.uk