0:00:00 > 0:00:04This programme contains some strong language
0:00:04 > 0:00:08'I'm Jasmine Harman and I've lived with my mother's compulsive 'hoarding all my life.'
0:00:08 > 0:00:10I'm telling you, I'm keeping those.
0:00:10 > 0:00:14If that isn't with your agreement, then we have to fall out.
0:00:14 > 0:00:17'With help, my mum's made huge improvements,
0:00:17 > 0:00:20'and now I want to help other hoarders around the country
0:00:20 > 0:00:22'who are living in terrible conditions.'
0:00:22 > 0:00:26I'm feeling desperate because I can't cope with it.
0:00:26 > 0:00:27This isn't me.
0:00:27 > 0:00:30This isn't me, living like this.
0:00:30 > 0:00:31I am shocked.
0:00:31 > 0:00:34It's literally a wall of stuff.
0:00:35 > 0:00:40'These are people who have lost their homes and lives to hoarding.'
0:00:40 > 0:00:44It's going to feel like you can't make it, and that's totally normal.
0:00:44 > 0:00:48Do you want to spend the rest of your years with this hanging
0:00:48 > 0:00:50- over you?- I can't do it.
0:00:51 > 0:00:54'I want hoarders up and down the country to realise
0:00:54 > 0:00:56'they aren't alone...'
0:00:56 > 0:00:57Get rid.
0:00:57 > 0:00:59You can't use them so that's a good decision you've made.
0:00:59 > 0:01:01I'm really proud of you.
0:01:01 > 0:01:02Ohh!
0:01:02 > 0:01:06'..And that with the right help, their lives can improve, too.'
0:01:06 > 0:01:10Really good to have my space back.
0:01:10 > 0:01:12Look what I have found!
0:01:12 > 0:01:15The things that I've found and that I never actually knew that I had.
0:01:17 > 0:01:18THEY LAUGH
0:01:18 > 0:01:20I've got something wrong with me
0:01:20 > 0:01:25which lots of other people have got, and it can be cured.
0:01:36 > 0:01:39'71-year-old Wendy, who taught English to foreign students,
0:01:39 > 0:01:45'has lived in this one-bedroom house in South London for 24 years.'
0:01:45 > 0:01:46This used to be such a nice room.
0:01:46 > 0:01:49There's a settee under there and a bed under there.
0:01:51 > 0:01:55When you get a certain amount of clutter and stuff hoarded,
0:01:55 > 0:02:00it becomes an almost insurmountable task, which anybody will tell you.
0:02:01 > 0:02:04I feel very ashamed, really. I mean, I must admit.
0:02:08 > 0:02:12'Wendy's house is packed to the rafters with bags and boxes,
0:02:12 > 0:02:15'a bathroom full of clothes, a bedroom
0:02:15 > 0:02:18'so stacked with belongings that only a sliver of bed remains...
0:02:19 > 0:02:22'..and a living room almost submerged by clutter.'
0:02:24 > 0:02:28There's a heater there that's broken that I've got to take back.
0:02:28 > 0:02:30Don't know where the receipt is.
0:02:32 > 0:02:35'Wendy lives alone, but her best friend, Giovanni,
0:02:35 > 0:02:37'is a regular visitor.'
0:02:38 > 0:02:42Everything is difficult here, you know, but...
0:02:44 > 0:02:47- Cos of the clutter.- What can I do?
0:02:47 > 0:02:50We have, you know, arguments but, if you like, you know...
0:02:50 > 0:02:51I don't argue.
0:02:51 > 0:02:53- ..small arguments. - I don't argue, you do.
0:02:55 > 0:03:00- I forgot, you know, because she's in... She interferes.- Interrupts.
0:03:04 > 0:03:07'Wendy has a particular attachment to the newspapers she's been
0:03:07 > 0:03:10'collecting for 17 years.'
0:03:10 > 0:03:13I'm very possessive about the newspapers.
0:03:13 > 0:03:16If they all went, just imagine how much space I'd have.
0:03:16 > 0:03:21I wouldn't believe it. I think, will I ever look at them again? It's true.
0:03:21 > 0:03:25I don't how to throw things away, you know. I don't.
0:03:31 > 0:03:35'Wendy's friends, workmates and neighbours have tried to help
0:03:35 > 0:03:39'her clear her hoard before but haven't been successful.
0:03:39 > 0:03:42'She's contacted me to see if I can help.'
0:03:44 > 0:03:46Hello, Wendy.
0:03:48 > 0:03:52Now you see, Jasmine, that is my main problem.
0:03:52 > 0:03:54Under there, I've got a computer.
0:03:54 > 0:03:57I've got a wardrobe of clothes that I haven't looked at at least 15 years.
0:03:57 > 0:03:59They're probably all eaten up by a moth.
0:03:59 > 0:04:01I had a cat in there for three days and I had mice in there.
0:04:01 > 0:04:04They climbed up the wall. I didn't even know the cat was there.
0:04:06 > 0:04:09You see these? They're probably quite valuable. They're a large size.
0:04:09 > 0:04:13- I don't know where I got them from. Don't ever ask me!- They're huge!
0:04:13 > 0:04:15- I know but...- But what are they for?
0:04:15 > 0:04:18- Well, they're football boots, aren't they?- No, but why have you got them?
0:04:18 > 0:04:21I don't know. Don't ask me why I've got anything!
0:04:21 > 0:04:23It's like Christmas every day.
0:04:23 > 0:04:27When I work with the Kosovans and the refugees in Wimbledon,
0:04:27 > 0:04:30where I work now, the asylum seekers, I was in charge of the shoes
0:04:30 > 0:04:31and the clothes, right?
0:04:31 > 0:04:34I was bringing stuff back that was being chucked out,
0:04:34 > 0:04:36and I was bringing it back here.
0:04:36 > 0:04:41This is largely why, for about at least six years,
0:04:41 > 0:04:43I was bringing stuff back.
0:04:43 > 0:04:48'As well as the items from her charity work, Wendy, an only child,
0:04:48 > 0:04:49'says she inherited much of her hoard
0:04:49 > 0:04:52'after her aunt and mother died.'
0:04:52 > 0:04:55The trouble about my mother was that being born in the War,
0:04:55 > 0:04:57she would never throw anything away.
0:04:57 > 0:05:00So every drawer in the house was full of things that would have
0:05:00 > 0:05:01a use for it.
0:05:01 > 0:05:03So you've still got all that stuff?
0:05:03 > 0:05:06- To be honest, I don't know what I've got.- You don't know?
0:05:06 > 0:05:11- So do you think that is learned behaviour?- It's ingrained in me.
0:05:11 > 0:05:13I don't know if other people are like this,
0:05:13 > 0:05:16but when I see something, I don't want to get rid of it.
0:05:16 > 0:05:19I might not look at it for ten years. It's this sort of mentality...
0:05:19 > 0:05:23Mother there, "Don't throw that away! It'll be useful." You know?
0:05:23 > 0:05:27'I've met so many hoarders who feel their hoarding comes from a parent.
0:05:27 > 0:05:30'And it often makes the condition even harder to tackle.'
0:05:32 > 0:05:38- Have you ever tried to...- Help her? - ..to clear up or to help?
0:05:38 > 0:05:41Yeah, to help her sort things out or let go of some things?
0:05:41 > 0:05:47I tried for a long time and I've given up.
0:05:47 > 0:05:52And, you know, I just say, "Well." Yeah, you know. What can you do?
0:05:52 > 0:05:56Her future... I mean, she's still 70, 71.
0:05:56 > 0:05:59She's still fit but, you know, obviously,
0:05:59 > 0:06:00she's not getting any younger.
0:06:00 > 0:06:03So I think she should do something about it.
0:06:03 > 0:06:04Is it empty? Ow!
0:06:05 > 0:06:06Ooh dear!
0:06:08 > 0:06:10'It's not always been like this for Wendy.
0:06:10 > 0:06:13'Her career started as a medical secretary before her talent as
0:06:13 > 0:06:18'a linguist took her into teaching, where she lived and worked abroad.
0:06:18 > 0:06:19'Now, she wants to regain the life
0:06:19 > 0:06:22'she feels she's lost to her hoarding.'
0:06:22 > 0:06:25- Hello.- Wendy, how lovely to meet you.
0:06:25 > 0:06:28- I'm really looking forward to this. - Would you like some fruitcake?
0:06:28 > 0:06:32- So you're the clutter lady? - I'm the clutter lady, yeah.
0:06:32 > 0:06:35You got a problem on your hands here, I tell you!
0:06:35 > 0:06:38'I've brought professional de-clutterer, Heather Matuozzo,
0:06:38 > 0:06:44'along to see if she can help give Wendy a plan to start clearing.'
0:06:44 > 0:06:48One of the things I can't stand is lack of space. I need freedom.
0:06:48 > 0:06:52- The irony!- I get claustrophobic in here. I can't...
0:06:52 > 0:06:53I'm not surprised, Wendy.
0:06:53 > 0:06:55I come in and I want to do it, and I don't know where to start.
0:06:55 > 0:06:58Let's say we've solved the problem of space,
0:06:58 > 0:07:01- so you've got somewhere to sort. - G had some...
0:07:01 > 0:07:05You had some quite interesting suggestions of how some stuff
0:07:05 > 0:07:06could move around here?
0:07:06 > 0:07:12Well, take it to a bigger place for her to look through all the...
0:07:13 > 0:07:17You know, that for her to feel more comfortable to take a look at
0:07:17 > 0:07:22all the stuff and maybe, you know, hopefully, get rid of some of it.
0:07:22 > 0:07:27So we find a space, we take the stuff out and put it in the space,
0:07:27 > 0:07:30and then you sit there and sort through it and decide where it goes.
0:07:30 > 0:07:31Oh, yeah. That's so easy.
0:07:31 > 0:07:34I've always said, if I had more space... I mean, I can do that.
0:07:34 > 0:07:35'Wendy agrees to us
0:07:35 > 0:07:39'hiring a warehouse space for her to sort through her possessions.
0:07:39 > 0:07:42'When my mum did this, it was a really effective,
0:07:42 > 0:07:45'but incredibly difficult, experience.'
0:07:45 > 0:07:50She's a very clever lady, very articulate, very intelligent,
0:07:50 > 0:07:58but she doesn't pause for breath when she's telling you her stories.
0:07:58 > 0:08:03And she doesn't answer questions because her mind goes off on a
0:08:03 > 0:08:07completely different tangent because she's got so much going on in there.
0:08:07 > 0:08:10And I think that is a reflection of the state of the house
0:08:10 > 0:08:14affecting the state of what's going on in her head and vice versa.
0:08:14 > 0:08:16The two affect each other.
0:08:24 > 0:08:26'80 miles away in Northamptonshire,
0:08:26 > 0:08:31'the local environmental health team has told me about another hoarder.'
0:08:31 > 0:08:33This might be a bit difficult.
0:08:35 > 0:08:36Right.
0:08:36 > 0:08:38'Laurence is a repeat offender.
0:08:38 > 0:08:40'After complaints four years ago,
0:08:40 > 0:08:44'the council cleared several skips of clutter from his home.
0:08:44 > 0:08:47'Now, they're threatening a second clearance
0:08:47 > 0:08:49'because he's back in the same mess.'
0:08:49 > 0:08:55This big TV is something I picked up, I was going to repair,
0:08:55 > 0:08:59but really needs to move out of the room.
0:09:00 > 0:09:03All this is sort of accumulation over a...
0:09:05 > 0:09:10..over quite a long... Oh, I don't know, a period of time.
0:09:10 > 0:09:12A lot of it is rubbish, unfortunately.
0:09:14 > 0:09:17'Laurence has no access to his kitchen or dining room,
0:09:17 > 0:09:20'and the rest of the home he bought 12 years ago has a thick
0:09:20 > 0:09:23'layer of rubbish on the floor.
0:09:23 > 0:09:25'He has dozens of electrical appliances, which he
0:09:25 > 0:09:29'had planned to fix, but now sit abandoned amongst the rubbish.'
0:09:32 > 0:09:33And this is the hallway.
0:09:35 > 0:09:36Into the hallway.
0:09:36 > 0:09:41It goes down there to a little conservatory in the back which,
0:09:41 > 0:09:47unfortunately, again is... That one is floor-to-ceiling high.
0:09:47 > 0:09:50You know, and people say, "Why don't you just do a bin bag of rubbish a day?"
0:09:50 > 0:09:54But it's... It just doesn't... Doesn't seem that easy to do.
0:09:55 > 0:09:58It should be, but it doesn't seem that easy to do.
0:10:01 > 0:10:03I've had enough of living in a mess.
0:10:08 > 0:10:11'If the council carry out their threat to clear
0:10:11 > 0:10:17'the clutter from Laurence's home, he will have to bear the cost.'
0:10:17 > 0:10:19- Hello.- Hello.- I'm Jasmine. - Hi, Jasmine.
0:10:21 > 0:10:24- It hasn't always been like this, has it?- Oh, no.
0:10:24 > 0:10:27Tell me about what happened the last time you cleared out.
0:10:29 > 0:10:31Umm...
0:10:31 > 0:10:33Well, I had some help
0:10:33 > 0:10:38and we cleared... Most of this room was practically clear.
0:10:39 > 0:10:44I just need to start again, refresh. I can't live like this any more.
0:10:45 > 0:10:50- So I've been going on too long. - It seems to me that you...
0:10:51 > 0:10:55You are at the stage where you really don't
0:10:55 > 0:10:58enjoy this environment...
0:10:58 > 0:11:01- No.- ..but you just sort of feel a bit overwhelmed...- Definitely.
0:11:01 > 0:11:04- ..and don't know how to tackle it... - Exactly.
0:11:04 > 0:11:09..cos it's a mountain of stuff and, you know, it won't be easy.
0:11:11 > 0:11:14'Like Wendy, life used to be very different for Laurence.
0:11:14 > 0:11:19'He, too, worked abroad for many years as a salesman and tour guide.
0:11:19 > 0:11:20'An extrovert,
0:11:20 > 0:11:23'he regularly demonstrated kitchenware at trade
0:11:23 > 0:11:26'shows in front of hundreds of people until a few years ago
0:11:26 > 0:11:29'when a bout of depression kicked off his hoarding.'
0:11:29 > 0:11:33Tell me about the real Laurence.
0:11:33 > 0:11:35What kind of place does he really live in?
0:11:39 > 0:11:41Probably not here.
0:11:41 > 0:11:47Somewhere where I can move about without so much clutter and rubbish.
0:11:47 > 0:11:50So I can move about freely. Umm...
0:11:51 > 0:11:54Not just this room but, I mean, the whole... Be able to
0:11:54 > 0:11:59get into the kitchen and use the cooker, which I can't at the moment.
0:11:59 > 0:12:02'The kitchen is the room Laurence feels most ashamed of.
0:12:02 > 0:12:05'It takes a lot of courage for him to even show me
0:12:05 > 0:12:08'behind the curtain he's put up to conceal it.'
0:12:08 > 0:12:14I know how difficult this is for you to show me this kitchen but...
0:12:14 > 0:12:18That's awful. It's not me. I can't get in there.
0:12:18 > 0:12:22I'm telling you, Laurence, yes, OK, this is a mess.
0:12:24 > 0:12:29- But we can help you with it. This is not...- Can I put this down now?
0:12:29 > 0:12:34- You can put it down.- It's bad for me.- Yeah, it's bad. I agree with you.
0:12:34 > 0:12:36It's bad.
0:12:37 > 0:12:41But it's not as though it has to stay like that for ever.
0:12:44 > 0:12:48'Laurence is now just a shadow of the man I can see he once was.
0:12:49 > 0:12:52'Clearing won't get rid of his depression,
0:12:52 > 0:12:53'but it would be a start.'
0:12:55 > 0:12:58What are your priorities with this?
0:12:58 > 0:13:03Is it getting things sorted out inside, in your head,
0:13:03 > 0:13:05or is actually getting the house sorted out?
0:13:05 > 0:13:06Everything. Everything.
0:13:09 > 0:13:12All the stuff that Laurence has gathered around him
0:13:12 > 0:13:14is like a comfort blanket.
0:13:14 > 0:13:17He's almost made a little nest for himself.
0:13:17 > 0:13:20So if you just take all that away, it's like stripping him bare.
0:13:21 > 0:13:27And if you don't replace it with some other kind of comfort,
0:13:27 > 0:13:30then there'll always be that tendency to bring it all back,
0:13:30 > 0:13:31as has happened before.
0:13:33 > 0:13:39To get the house cleared would be one major thing off my worries
0:13:39 > 0:13:44in life, to be able to move about and not step on things all the time.
0:13:45 > 0:13:50At least that would be one step nearer to a normal life, maybe.
0:14:03 > 0:14:07'In South London, it's two weeks since Wendy agreed she'd move
0:14:07 > 0:14:11'some of her hoard out of the house and into a warehouse.
0:14:11 > 0:14:15'Today's the big day, but getting started is proving difficult.'
0:14:16 > 0:14:20Can I just explain something to you that you might not realise,
0:14:20 > 0:14:24is that what you're anticipating happening is actually not
0:14:24 > 0:14:28going to be as bad as you think it's going to be?
0:14:28 > 0:14:32So just know, it's going to be uncomfortable,
0:14:32 > 0:14:36it may even be painful, but you will come out the other side.
0:14:36 > 0:14:38As long as I don't lose things.
0:14:38 > 0:14:41You can stay exactly as you are, if you want to.
0:14:41 > 0:14:43Honestly, I mean, I don't...
0:14:43 > 0:14:48If it's going to tip your over the edge, don't do it.
0:14:48 > 0:14:51But I can genuinely say, from experience,
0:14:51 > 0:14:55that what you're thinking, how you're thinking it's going to
0:14:55 > 0:14:58feel, it's not actually going to feel as bad as all that.
0:14:58 > 0:15:01I'm quite excited, in a certain way, especially upstairs
0:15:01 > 0:15:05cos I've made such chaos up there. It's going to be easy.
0:15:05 > 0:15:09Once I start going through things, I just don't realise how much I've got.
0:15:09 > 0:15:13'We'd agreed that the entire contents of her living room would
0:15:13 > 0:15:15'go to the warehouse, but now,
0:15:15 > 0:15:18'Wendy is trying to control what can be moved
0:15:18 > 0:15:19'and what must stay at home.'
0:15:20 > 0:15:23Anything like this, I don't want to go.
0:15:23 > 0:15:27- I want this to go in the bathroom. - So hold on.
0:15:27 > 0:15:28What you want is for us
0:15:28 > 0:15:31to just move this stuff all around the house rather than taking it out?
0:15:31 > 0:15:34No, no, no. I don't want any material things going into the warehouse,
0:15:34 > 0:15:38like the curtains. I'll watch you as you do it.
0:15:38 > 0:15:40There's no point us filling up the bathroom, Wendy,
0:15:40 > 0:15:43cos then you won't... Then you'll be in a muddle in the bathroom.
0:15:43 > 0:15:46No, no, no. Those are not going into the warehouse!
0:15:46 > 0:15:48- They're going in the bathroom cos I'll sort that...- Why?
0:15:48 > 0:15:49The bathroom doesn't matter!
0:15:49 > 0:15:52The bathroom is clothes, and I'm not sorting...
0:15:52 > 0:15:55- The bathroom is clothes, but it's a bathroom!- It doesn't matter.
0:15:55 > 0:15:58- I'm used to it. - And you can't get in the bath!
0:15:58 > 0:16:00- Well, I'll get in the bath eventually.- Oh, nice.
0:16:00 > 0:16:04Why don't you like the idea of the clothes going to the warehouse to be sorted?
0:16:04 > 0:16:09- Oh, Jasmine, don't ask me, please. - OK, fine.- It's not necessary.
0:16:09 > 0:16:13SHOUTS: I told you, the clothes are in the bathroom!
0:16:13 > 0:16:15Can I have some more camomile tea?
0:16:17 > 0:16:21Yes, we'll put the clothes upstairs in the bathroom like you've asked,
0:16:21 > 0:16:27but I want you to be aware that there are other alternatives
0:16:27 > 0:16:29to the way you're doing things.
0:16:29 > 0:16:31Because it hasn't worked so far.
0:16:31 > 0:16:35It might be for other people, but not for me at the moment, Jasmine!
0:16:35 > 0:16:39- SHOUTS: Please don't go on at me any more! Leave things as they are.- OK.
0:16:46 > 0:16:53'I think everybody that hoards has a need to be in control
0:16:53 > 0:16:56'and a need to use the things that they've got.
0:16:56 > 0:17:00'They've got them for a reason. They can see value in them.'
0:17:00 > 0:17:02But it's...
0:17:05 > 0:17:08I think it's even more difficult with Wendy,
0:17:08 > 0:17:15because she's absolutely adamant that there is no other way.
0:17:15 > 0:17:19But can you clean later, once everything is sorted?
0:17:19 > 0:17:23- Then you clean it.- I want to clean the Hoover before I take it out.
0:17:31 > 0:17:33I mean, you went through this with your mother.
0:17:33 > 0:17:37I did, and my mum was having psychiatric treatment.
0:17:37 > 0:17:40- She was on antidepressants, she was having a psychologist once a week. - Well, I'm not.
0:17:40 > 0:17:44And I don't need psychiatrists, because it just screws me up.
0:17:44 > 0:17:46It brings back the past of my mother,
0:17:46 > 0:17:49and I don't want the past to come back. What's the point?
0:17:49 > 0:17:52- Is this not the past all around you? - Psychosynthesis...
0:17:52 > 0:17:56- I mean, I'm not going to start analysing you, because I know you don't like it.- Yeah, just tell me.
0:17:56 > 0:18:01- What I mean is, for you...- Don't expect me to change.- No, I don't.
0:18:01 > 0:18:06What I'm saying is, Wendy has got a little bit of tunnel vision
0:18:06 > 0:18:10- and that it might be good to take the blinkers off. - Probably more than a little.
0:18:10 > 0:18:13It might be good to take the blinkers off and just say,
0:18:13 > 0:18:16"Oh, OK, these people are trying to help me. They've made a suggestion.
0:18:16 > 0:18:19"I could try it and see how it goes."
0:18:19 > 0:18:22D-d-d-don't tear that cloth!
0:18:22 > 0:18:24You've torn it!
0:18:24 > 0:18:28You've torn it. It's probably rotting because it's sat there for years.
0:18:28 > 0:18:30That's my nice picture there.
0:18:33 > 0:18:37'Wendy wins the battle to move her clothes to the bathroom,
0:18:37 > 0:18:39'but paperwork, boxes full of clutter
0:18:39 > 0:18:42'and newspapers are moving out.'
0:18:42 > 0:18:46'At the end of the day, I'm sure she'll be happy with that.'
0:18:46 > 0:18:49Hopefully, cos she's my friend.
0:18:49 > 0:18:51- Aww!- She's my friend.
0:19:12 > 0:19:15I'm feeling desperate, because I can't cope with it.
0:19:15 > 0:19:21I just realised that's the story of my life, my childhood - not coping.
0:19:21 > 0:19:24You know, it's something in here and in me.
0:19:24 > 0:19:27I'm not strong like you think I am. I appear to be,
0:19:27 > 0:19:32and even having people in the house putting things in boxes,
0:19:32 > 0:19:35I don't know where anything is.
0:19:35 > 0:19:39I don't know what I've got. There's so much of it, just for one room.
0:19:39 > 0:19:43And the bedroom, there's three times more stuff in there.
0:19:50 > 0:19:55For all hoarders, the thought of losing their possessions is traumatic, but for Laurence,
0:19:55 > 0:19:59with an enforced clearance hanging over him, there's little choice.
0:20:03 > 0:20:04Videos?
0:20:04 > 0:20:08- Oh, no, throw them or recycle them, I suppose.- OK.
0:20:08 > 0:20:11But nobody really wants videos these days.
0:20:11 > 0:20:13What are we going to do that, then?
0:20:13 > 0:20:16- Skip?- Yeah, I guess.
0:20:16 > 0:20:17Skip, please.
0:20:21 > 0:20:22Rubbish.
0:20:22 > 0:20:25We've hired a skip, and Laurence's hoard will be
0:20:25 > 0:20:29separated into what's recyclable and what can be binned.
0:20:29 > 0:20:30OK.
0:20:34 > 0:20:36- Two TVs down.- Brilliant.
0:20:36 > 0:20:38- Several to go! - THEY LAUGH
0:20:40 > 0:20:44'But even with the threat of a huge bill from a forced clearance,
0:20:44 > 0:20:50'Laurence is still struggling to let go of some of his broken electrical appliances.'
0:20:50 > 0:20:52It might be repairable and usable,
0:20:52 > 0:20:59and I've already committed certain monies to getting the door.
0:20:59 > 0:21:01What you have to think about is,
0:21:01 > 0:21:04what's your track record of doing that?
0:21:04 > 0:21:08Are you going to be hindering yourself more than what
0:21:08 > 0:21:11that could be worth to you if it's fixed?
0:21:11 > 0:21:15- And weight it up. Then you make the decision. Up to you.- It's difficult.
0:21:15 > 0:21:19- This is the only thing...- Is this the only one?- This is the only...
0:21:19 > 0:21:22Well, there's the tumble dryer.
0:21:22 > 0:21:25The tumble dryer and that would be the only one.
0:21:25 > 0:21:28And there's a dishwasher in there as well.
0:21:28 > 0:21:32'While it seems like the clearout is coming easy to Laurence,
0:21:32 > 0:21:36'it just takes one memory of his former life to remind him
0:21:36 > 0:21:37'how bad things have become.'
0:21:39 > 0:21:42What's amazing is you've been travelling around overseas
0:21:42 > 0:21:47exhibiting and selling at the equivalent of the Ideal Home Show.
0:21:47 > 0:21:51- Yeah, I worked at the Ideal Home Show in London for eight years.- Did you?
0:21:51 > 0:21:54Selling various products, yeah.
0:21:54 > 0:21:57VOICE CRACKS: Bringing tears back to my eyes again.
0:21:57 > 0:22:00People see me out and about and they think, "Oh, there's nothing wrong."
0:22:03 > 0:22:06Unfortunately, there has been.
0:22:06 > 0:22:11To have got in a state like this, it's not normal, and it's not me.
0:22:11 > 0:22:16But here we are, hopefully doing something about it.
0:22:16 > 0:22:19Hopefully we are doing something about it.
0:22:20 > 0:22:22- It's a big step.- Yeah.
0:22:26 > 0:22:30When I look at Laurence, I just think...
0:22:30 > 0:22:34he doesn't relate to any of this.
0:22:34 > 0:22:39And just finding that photograph, you know, you can see who he was.
0:22:39 > 0:22:46He had a responsible job, you know, he's lived abroad,
0:22:46 > 0:22:48he's done loads of things with his life.
0:22:48 > 0:22:51For him to have ended up like this is really, really sad.
0:22:55 > 0:22:58He shuts that front door and hides in here and it's like he's
0:22:58 > 0:23:02almost shut the front door on his emotions at the same time.
0:23:02 > 0:23:04And now, it's like we've opened the floodgates.
0:23:04 > 0:23:09It's all coming spilling out emotionally and physically.
0:23:09 > 0:23:14So, it's a time of huge change for Laurence.
0:23:14 > 0:23:18One day in, and Laurence has made a good dent in his hold.
0:23:18 > 0:23:20He's been here before,
0:23:20 > 0:23:24so we need to make sure this time he doesn't slip back.
0:23:24 > 0:23:25Rubbish.
0:23:27 > 0:23:32When we get it back to a normal, liveable state,
0:23:32 > 0:23:35I am sure I am going to feel 100% better.
0:23:35 > 0:23:38Today, yes, I do feel a little bit better,
0:23:38 > 0:23:40but there's still a way to go.
0:23:40 > 0:23:44Yeah, what we've done today has been brilliant. A good start.
0:23:44 > 0:23:49Now, what about this? I guess you don't want it any more?
0:23:49 > 0:23:52Great.
0:23:52 > 0:23:54He's starting to uncover
0:23:54 > 0:23:59and take off all these layers that he's built up around him.
0:23:59 > 0:24:01I think he's kind of enjoying it.
0:24:03 > 0:24:06Just being able to release the emotions
0:24:06 > 0:24:11and to talk about the past and think that he's got a future ahead of him.
0:24:18 > 0:24:20In south London,
0:24:20 > 0:24:25we're slowly relocating Wendy's downstairs hoard to the warehouse.
0:24:25 > 0:24:28'But today, she's decided to take some of her vast
0:24:28 > 0:24:32'collection of clothes - and some more from a friend - to charity.'
0:24:32 > 0:24:35How long has it taken you to get those two cases ready to go to...?
0:24:35 > 0:24:40Well, ten years, really. I haven't looked through them for ten years.
0:24:43 > 0:24:46'Wendy does a huge amount of good work of charity,
0:24:46 > 0:24:50'volunteering to help refugees and donating clothes,
0:24:50 > 0:24:53'but my worry is that it doesn't help her hoarding,
0:24:53 > 0:24:57'allowing her to sort endlessly while not tackling her problem.'
0:24:59 > 0:25:03- Wendy wants to go through that stuff.- It won't take a minute. - No, it won't take a minute.
0:25:03 > 0:25:06Does she need to go through it or do you take anything?
0:25:06 > 0:25:11- We'll take it. We'll happily take it.- I just want to see what's here.
0:25:13 > 0:25:15I was just putting things as to what they are.
0:25:15 > 0:25:18Trousers are together, shirts together.
0:25:18 > 0:25:22I just want to see what's here. It's obvious what I'm doing, isn't it?
0:25:22 > 0:25:26No, because all these are probably bags of mixed stuff waiting to be sorted.
0:25:26 > 0:25:28Yeah, but I... Jasmine, for goodness' sake.
0:25:28 > 0:25:31Isn't it obvious what I'm doing? You really get...
0:25:31 > 0:25:35No, I just wasn't sure if you were sorting them into things that were going
0:25:35 > 0:25:38and things that were going somewhere else or coming back to your house.
0:25:42 > 0:25:45See, once I get going, I'm very speedy.
0:25:47 > 0:25:51It would be speedier to just leave them. I know I'm annoying you.
0:25:51 > 0:25:55- I realise I'm annoying you and I'm sorry.- No, I'm interested.
0:25:55 > 0:25:59I'm a very organised person, Jasmine, you'll see that.
0:25:59 > 0:26:01Oh, look, brand-new socks.
0:26:13 > 0:26:16'After a three-hour round-trip and endless arguments over
0:26:16 > 0:26:21'parting with her clothes, we finally get back home with two empty suitcases.'
0:26:27 > 0:26:30'In one sense, it was great, because she let some stuff go.
0:26:30 > 0:26:33'That's really good and I really want to encourage that.'
0:26:33 > 0:26:36But in the other sense,
0:26:36 > 0:26:41if that's how we have to get rid of everything,
0:26:41 > 0:26:43it's too time-consuming.
0:26:43 > 0:26:47It's too labour-intensive.
0:26:47 > 0:26:51And I don't see how we can really make a huge impact
0:26:51 > 0:26:53if everything has got to be done in that way.
0:26:56 > 0:26:59'It's hard to watch Wendy wrestle with her hoard.
0:26:59 > 0:27:05'Her resistance so reminds me of my mum's struggle to clear her hoard from our home.
0:27:05 > 0:27:10'Thankfully, after many years, my mum did change.
0:27:10 > 0:27:12'But for some hoarders, that never happens.
0:27:15 > 0:27:19'I've been contacted by two sisters who have spent a lifetime
0:27:19 > 0:27:22'living with their mother's hoarding.'
0:27:22 > 0:27:27- This door here, you couldn't get to.- Where did it lead to?
0:27:27 > 0:27:29Another room, which was full.
0:27:29 > 0:27:32Couldn't even get up the stairs, could we?
0:27:32 > 0:27:34Couldn't get up the stairs.
0:27:34 > 0:27:37Chris and Maggie grew up in a military family.
0:27:37 > 0:27:39They had many moves throughout their childhood,
0:27:39 > 0:27:42with the family eventually settling in Hampshire.
0:27:43 > 0:27:48When their parents separated in the 1970s, their mum Sheila began to hoard,
0:27:48 > 0:27:52and her house became increasingly difficult to live in.
0:27:52 > 0:27:55But as with many hoarders, few people knew.
0:27:55 > 0:28:00To those people who didn't know she had a problem and who had no
0:28:00 > 0:28:04knowledge of her other life,
0:28:04 > 0:28:06which she hid very well...
0:28:06 > 0:28:08She put up a very good smokescreen,
0:28:08 > 0:28:12but she was a really good fun lady. She loved partying.
0:28:12 > 0:28:15She just didn't like throwing things away.
0:28:15 > 0:28:18She had in her head that they were going to have this dream home,
0:28:18 > 0:28:23so she was always collecting wallpaper and lamp shades.
0:28:23 > 0:28:25- Curtains.- Curtains was...
0:28:25 > 0:28:30- Hundreds of pairs of curtains and carpets.- For the dream home? - For the dream home.
0:28:30 > 0:28:36One year, I took her two grandsons down to try and remove some stuff
0:28:36 > 0:28:40from the garage, because it was just so full you couldn't get in there.
0:28:40 > 0:28:46And as we tried to get a very, very old rotten carpet
0:28:46 > 0:28:50out into the car to take to the tip, she physically became ill.
0:28:50 > 0:28:54You know, we're talking about an elderly lady who was having
0:28:54 > 0:28:56to climb over goodness knows what.
0:28:56 > 0:28:59Her heating wasn't working properly
0:28:59 > 0:29:01because the plumber couldn't get to the pipes.
0:29:01 > 0:29:03It was very sad, really,
0:29:03 > 0:29:07because if she hadn't had this hoarding syndrome,
0:29:07 > 0:29:09for want of a better word,
0:29:09 > 0:29:12it's my belief that she'd still be here today.
0:29:15 > 0:29:19Towards the end of her life, Sheila was suffering from anaemia
0:29:19 > 0:29:22and unable to eat because of an infected tooth.
0:29:22 > 0:29:26Her hoarding meant she was confined to living in a small space in her
0:29:26 > 0:29:31kitchen, sleeping at the table or on the floor amongst rotting rubbish.
0:29:32 > 0:29:38The outcome was she had to be admitted to the medical hospital
0:29:38 > 0:29:41so they could carry out some more tests.
0:29:41 > 0:29:44She wasn't even in there 24 hours.
0:29:44 > 0:29:45But...
0:29:47 > 0:29:52- ..she died in a clean room with clean sheets.- And people who cared.
0:29:54 > 0:29:56And she said thank you to them.
0:30:01 > 0:30:04She said thank you to them, half an hour before he died.
0:30:10 > 0:30:14All she wanted was her family near her, to come
0:30:14 > 0:30:16and stay, grandchildren to come and stay.
0:30:16 > 0:30:19She'd got all these rooms in her house, but they couldn't get in them.
0:30:21 > 0:30:25It's a little bit like somebody who's got an alcohol problem
0:30:25 > 0:30:30or a drug problem, where they eventually have to admit that this
0:30:30 > 0:30:34isn't really what they want, and that there's help out there.
0:30:38 > 0:30:42It's like they've lived my worst nightmare.
0:30:44 > 0:30:46They've lived the worst nightmare
0:30:46 > 0:30:51of any family member of a hoarder.
0:30:54 > 0:31:00Nobody deserves to end their days unhappy...
0:31:02 > 0:31:07..living in a home where they can't function, that's dirty,
0:31:07 > 0:31:10that's jam-packed, so they can't move.
0:31:12 > 0:31:13Nobody deserves that.
0:31:21 > 0:31:24'I firmly believe that it was the therapy my mum received,
0:31:24 > 0:31:29'alongside the practical help, that set her on the road to recovery.'
0:31:29 > 0:31:32'I want Wendy to be given the chance, too,
0:31:32 > 0:31:35'so I've asked clinical psychologist Professor Paul Salkovskis
0:31:35 > 0:31:36'to meet her.'
0:31:37 > 0:31:41So, which room's this? Bathroom? Toilet? Toilet, OK.
0:31:41 > 0:31:44'Wendy's told me she doesn't want to rake up the past,
0:31:44 > 0:31:47'but I'm worried she won't make any progress without understanding
0:31:47 > 0:31:49'why she began hoarding.'
0:31:49 > 0:31:51I left home when I was 18.
0:31:51 > 0:31:53I went to the French Lycee Secretarial College,
0:31:53 > 0:31:55sent to boarding school when I was 17
0:31:55 > 0:31:57because I was always a problem to my mother,
0:31:57 > 0:32:01and then I worked in a stockbrokers', and then I went to Nigeria.
0:32:01 > 0:32:02And I lived in flats in London.
0:32:02 > 0:32:04I'm going to interrupt you.
0:32:04 > 0:32:07Do you find that your thoughts are jumping around a lot?
0:32:07 > 0:32:08Oh, I always do.
0:32:08 > 0:32:11Is that always the case for you?
0:32:11 > 0:32:14When I think of one thing,
0:32:14 > 0:32:16then I start thinking of something else.
0:32:16 > 0:32:18You're having problems putting things in order
0:32:18 > 0:32:20in your own mind, aren't you, a bit?
0:32:20 > 0:32:22Trouble is, I'm a perfectionist.
0:32:23 > 0:32:28And when I tell you something, I have to tell you the whole story.
0:32:28 > 0:32:30Whole story, OK, all the details.
0:32:30 > 0:32:31Basically, my mother...
0:32:31 > 0:32:35Every drawer and every cupboard was full of stuff from the war.
0:32:35 > 0:32:38That's what I'm telling you, wartime.
0:32:38 > 0:32:40Never touch anything, never throw anything away.
0:32:40 > 0:32:42It's so ingrained in me.
0:32:42 > 0:32:44But you've been obeying that ever since.
0:32:45 > 0:32:47It's just the way I am, you know.
0:32:47 > 0:32:49It's just the way you are?
0:32:49 > 0:32:50No, what I mean is...
0:32:50 > 0:32:52Don't you choose a bit about who you are?
0:32:52 > 0:32:55What I mean is I've never thrown things away all my life,
0:32:55 > 0:32:56I don't know how to do it.
0:32:56 > 0:32:58What you've just told me was that your mother...
0:32:58 > 0:33:01I've got all my diaries from ten years,
0:33:01 > 0:33:04because in seven years' time I'll be able to use that diary again.
0:33:04 > 0:33:07You're drowning in detail, aren't you?
0:33:07 > 0:33:09You're really drowning in detail here.
0:33:09 > 0:33:10I told you, I always go into detail.
0:33:10 > 0:33:12You're drowning in detail, and I don't quite...
0:33:12 > 0:33:15I'm drowning in everything around me, aren't I?
0:33:15 > 0:33:19I know, it's the same thing. I actually think there's a connection.
0:33:19 > 0:33:22I don't actually think that's very funny for you.
0:33:22 > 0:33:23Well, it's not funny, no.
0:33:23 > 0:33:26Some of this is about how painful it is.
0:33:26 > 0:33:30I think the detail that you're going in is blocking off
0:33:30 > 0:33:32some of how you feel.
0:33:32 > 0:33:35Whenever we talk about anything that might be about how you feel,
0:33:35 > 0:33:39you laugh it off, or you go into the detail,
0:33:39 > 0:33:41you go off at another tangent.
0:33:41 > 0:33:42Mmm.
0:33:42 > 0:33:45I think, all my life, I've shut it out.
0:33:45 > 0:33:48What was the feeling that you were shutting out?
0:33:50 > 0:33:54I mean, I'm guessing there's going to be feelings of loneliness.
0:33:54 > 0:33:57Well, if you don't relate to people...
0:33:57 > 0:34:01That's a problem you have? You have difficulty relating to people?
0:34:03 > 0:34:05Well, in all reality,
0:34:05 > 0:34:08I've probably never really come to terms with anything in my life,
0:34:08 > 0:34:10really, because I've always felt out of it,
0:34:10 > 0:34:14I've always felt different, I've always felt ostracised.
0:34:15 > 0:34:18I always feel I've been misunderstood all my life.
0:34:18 > 0:34:19Mmm.
0:34:19 > 0:34:22But, Wendy, you're still living with it,
0:34:22 > 0:34:25and this is one of the ways you're living with it.
0:34:25 > 0:34:27Yeah, probably, the clutter is my life.
0:34:27 > 0:34:29The clutter is your life.
0:34:29 > 0:34:31Yeah, OK, there is a good way of putting it,
0:34:31 > 0:34:32and is that what you want?
0:34:32 > 0:34:34Do you want this clutter to be your life?
0:34:34 > 0:34:35Of course not.
0:34:37 > 0:34:39- What's the outcome to that? - I don't know.
0:34:39 > 0:34:41I can't change now at 71.
0:34:43 > 0:34:47I don't believe you can't change. I believe you can change this.
0:34:47 > 0:34:49You're trapped in a number of ways.
0:34:49 > 0:34:50Some of it is in here,
0:34:50 > 0:34:54being trapped in here by some of the things you've had to go through.
0:34:54 > 0:34:56And it tumbles out, it tumbles out.
0:34:56 > 0:35:00Actually, as you say that, there was a lot of pain there.
0:35:00 > 0:35:03The reason that you're thinking the way you're thinking is
0:35:03 > 0:35:06because you're trying very hard not to sink
0:35:06 > 0:35:09beneath the surface of what you're really feeling.
0:35:25 > 0:35:27I don't know what I kept those for.
0:35:28 > 0:35:30That's hoarding, isn't it?
0:35:30 > 0:35:312001. Crikey.
0:35:37 > 0:35:39'In Northamptonshire, a week into his clearance,
0:35:39 > 0:35:42'and Lawrence is making real progress.'
0:35:42 > 0:35:46'With Heather's help, he's grasping the opportunity to change
0:35:46 > 0:35:49'and take responsibility for himself.'
0:35:49 > 0:35:51Have you got a telly that works?
0:35:52 > 0:35:54Yeah, I've got a telly that works.
0:35:54 > 0:35:55Why do you need another one?
0:35:55 > 0:35:57Well, I don't. But...
0:35:57 > 0:35:59Come on, let's get rid of it.
0:35:59 > 0:36:03To keep the momentum going, a couple of friends are here to help.
0:36:03 > 0:36:05The great unveiling.
0:36:05 > 0:36:07The great unveiling.
0:36:07 > 0:36:08Just start there.
0:36:08 > 0:36:10OK.
0:36:10 > 0:36:13Right. Plastic, recycling.
0:36:13 > 0:36:15Aaargh!
0:36:20 > 0:36:21Another pipe!
0:36:21 > 0:36:23Yeah, throw that one.
0:36:23 > 0:36:26- Lawrence's situation is a perfect example
0:36:26 > 0:36:28of a lot of people that I see.
0:36:28 > 0:36:30They have lost their way,
0:36:30 > 0:36:34they become paralysed by their belongings, they've over-acquired,
0:36:34 > 0:36:38for whatever reason, usually to make them feel better.
0:36:38 > 0:36:44But with help, once you make a start, that's what it is.
0:36:44 > 0:36:48It's breaking the back of silence, isolation, shame,
0:36:48 > 0:36:52and once that happens, it's just magical, really.
0:36:57 > 0:37:01I've just got to the stage where enough is enough,
0:37:01 > 0:37:04and I want my house back, I want my space back,
0:37:04 > 0:37:07I want to be able to live, I want to be able to use the kitchen.
0:37:07 > 0:37:08It's gone.
0:37:08 > 0:37:11A piece of my life, in some respects,
0:37:11 > 0:37:13but not a piece of my life I want to remember, really.
0:37:23 > 0:37:26'In South London, after four days of shuttling vanloads
0:37:26 > 0:37:29'from Wendy's house to the warehouse,
0:37:29 > 0:37:33'even a knee injury won't stop her seeing her ground-floor
0:37:33 > 0:37:36'possessions laid out for the first time.'
0:37:36 > 0:37:38Right.
0:37:38 > 0:37:39Oh, my God. Is that all my stuff?
0:37:39 > 0:37:40Here we are.
0:37:40 > 0:37:42That's just one room!
0:37:43 > 0:37:45What's that metal thing over there?
0:37:45 > 0:37:46A big pot, by the look of it.
0:37:46 > 0:37:47- Is that mine?- Yeah.
0:37:47 > 0:37:49Where did that come from?
0:37:49 > 0:37:52I don't know. Somewhere in your house.
0:37:52 > 0:37:55Extraordinary. I tell you, half the things in here I won't recognise.
0:37:55 > 0:37:57You haven't done the bedroom yet.
0:37:57 > 0:38:00There's far more in the bedroom than there was in the sitting room.
0:38:00 > 0:38:04Are you surprised at how much there is here?
0:38:04 > 0:38:07Absolutely amazed. This is only the sitting room?
0:38:10 > 0:38:1120 years.
0:38:13 > 0:38:17'Immediately, it becomes clear just how painstakingly meticulous
0:38:17 > 0:38:21'Wendy is when it comes to sorting through her hoard.'
0:38:21 > 0:38:23- Can you give me another small box or bag?- Another one?
0:38:23 > 0:38:26These are the things that I'll take home and go through
0:38:26 > 0:38:27when I'm watching telly.
0:38:27 > 0:38:30'And that there's one collection
0:38:30 > 0:38:32'which is going to be a real wrench for her.'
0:38:33 > 0:38:36I'd love if you give me some newspapers.
0:38:36 > 0:38:37OK.
0:38:37 > 0:38:38I need about...
0:38:39 > 0:38:41..eight, nine, ten.
0:38:41 > 0:38:44I need at least ten pallets of newspapers
0:38:44 > 0:38:46for a papier-mache sculpture I'm making.
0:38:46 > 0:38:48Are you serious? Come on.
0:38:50 > 0:38:53Come on. Pull the other leg.
0:38:55 > 0:38:57Oh, my goodness, Jasmine.
0:38:58 > 0:39:03I feel great, because I've got space around me.
0:39:03 > 0:39:05How come you like space when you're not at home,
0:39:05 > 0:39:07but you're not sure about it when you are at home?
0:39:07 > 0:39:10- Because, I just said, that feeling, just this space.- But it's nice?
0:39:10 > 0:39:12Nothing in it. Oh, it's fantastic.
0:39:12 > 0:39:16It's necessary. Look, that's a house I nearly bought in Putney.
0:39:16 > 0:39:17I wanted to move.
0:39:18 > 0:39:23Wendy needs to work really slowly. I mean, it's going to take an age.
0:39:23 > 0:39:26I don't even know how it's going to happen.
0:39:28 > 0:39:32Because right now, the little bit of paperwork that she was sorting,
0:39:32 > 0:39:36all of it's gone back into boxes to go back into the house to be sorted.
0:39:49 > 0:39:52Don't put anything in any bag without me seeing it, please.
0:39:54 > 0:39:57I'm not saying I'm going to keep it, but I just want to see what's there.
0:40:00 > 0:40:04Look! There's a John Williams CD box in the rubbish, Max!
0:40:04 > 0:40:06'A week into sorting in the warehouse,
0:40:06 > 0:40:10'and Wendy is still struggling to part with any of her possessions.'
0:40:10 > 0:40:12'She's going through everything in detail,
0:40:12 > 0:40:16'and not addressing the pressing issue of the newspapers.'
0:40:17 > 0:40:20If you could let go of this in one go...
0:40:20 > 0:40:22What does one go mean?
0:40:22 > 0:40:25Like you said, "OK, it's all going. Just bring the van in.
0:40:25 > 0:40:27- "It's all going."- No.
0:40:27 > 0:40:30- If you could... - No, not yet, not yet.
0:40:30 > 0:40:33'And by the end of the day, it begins to overwhelm her.'
0:40:34 > 0:40:36- Listen...- I don't know where all this came from!
0:40:36 > 0:40:38I've never seen these things before!
0:40:38 > 0:40:40But if you've never seen them before,
0:40:40 > 0:40:43then don't bother looking through them.
0:40:43 > 0:40:44I've got to look through them.
0:40:44 > 0:40:46You haven't. I'll look through them for you.
0:40:46 > 0:40:48If you haven't seen them,
0:40:48 > 0:40:51and you don't have any attachment to them, then I can sort them for you.
0:40:51 > 0:40:53You don't have to do it.
0:40:53 > 0:40:55It's only things you recognise.
0:41:05 > 0:41:09'Before she's finished sorting through the warehouse, Wendy decides
0:41:09 > 0:41:13'to divert her attention to the clutter upstairs in her house.'
0:41:13 > 0:41:17'But, as ever, she is captivated by her possessions.'
0:41:17 > 0:41:19"Conscientious, with an eye for detail." That's me.
0:41:19 > 0:41:21"Now seeking a career restart opportunity
0:41:21 > 0:41:23"using newly-acquired computer skills."
0:41:23 > 0:41:25I think that's quite a good CV, isn't it?
0:41:27 > 0:41:30Oh, letters to people I never sent. Now that's a typical thing of me.
0:41:30 > 0:41:32Oh, my God! Jigsaw puzzle.
0:41:34 > 0:41:37Oh, look at that!
0:41:38 > 0:41:39Isn't that amazing?
0:41:39 > 0:41:41Oh!
0:41:41 > 0:41:42It's too small.
0:41:43 > 0:41:45Oh!
0:41:45 > 0:41:48Well, now, I mean, and then I find something beautiful like this,
0:41:48 > 0:41:51and, of course, maybe it is the whole thing worthwhile.
0:41:51 > 0:41:52I don't know.
0:41:52 > 0:41:53This place smells.
0:41:53 > 0:41:55So do you.
0:41:55 > 0:41:59Everything smells in this house, according to you.
0:41:59 > 0:42:01You don't have to help. It's better if you don't.
0:42:01 > 0:42:02There's another armchair here.
0:42:02 > 0:42:05I know there's another armchair here.
0:42:05 > 0:42:07- You know I've got two armchairs. - Are you going to keep it?
0:42:07 > 0:42:09- Of course.- Oh, fuck!
0:42:10 > 0:42:14'If Wendy's going to make progress at home,
0:42:14 > 0:42:17'she's going to have to make some tough calls about her possessions.'
0:42:18 > 0:42:22I'm just worried now. I'm worried. I didn't know all this stuff was here.
0:42:22 > 0:42:25I mean, it's an absolute nightmare to me.
0:42:25 > 0:42:27I'm beginning to almost despair.
0:42:30 > 0:42:33It's so much worse than I could have ever imagined.
0:42:38 > 0:42:42'Although clearing can bring trauma for a hoarder, sometimes
0:42:42 > 0:42:46'the space that's left behind is just as difficult to deal with.'
0:42:49 > 0:42:52'Lawrence's efforts have averted a clearance from the council,
0:42:52 > 0:42:55'but I want to find out how he's coping mentally.'
0:42:56 > 0:42:59It's been very hard, the last couple of weeks.
0:43:02 > 0:43:04Has your depression reared up again?
0:43:04 > 0:43:05Yeah, big time.
0:43:05 > 0:43:06Really?
0:43:06 > 0:43:08Mmm.
0:43:08 > 0:43:13Are you feeling worse, more depressed now, than you were before?
0:43:13 > 0:43:15Erm, no.
0:43:15 > 0:43:18I don't know. No, I don't think so, no.
0:43:18 > 0:43:20OK, well, that's good.
0:43:20 > 0:43:22Yeah.
0:43:22 > 0:43:25That is a good step, and in the last two weeks,
0:43:25 > 0:43:29when you been feeling down, and unmotivated, you've maintained it.
0:43:29 > 0:43:32I've managed to keep the place clear, yeah.
0:43:32 > 0:43:34Yes! Good!
0:43:34 > 0:43:36That's brilliant!
0:43:36 > 0:43:38And made sure that I put it in a rubbish bag.
0:43:38 > 0:43:40Brilliant.
0:43:40 > 0:43:46So, I would think about ideas, not just for the clearing part of it,
0:43:46 > 0:43:48but for everything, you know.
0:43:50 > 0:43:52How you're going to get Lawrence back.
0:43:52 > 0:43:56Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's the next step, as it were.
0:43:59 > 0:44:05The thing is, with Lawrence, I wonder if he thought, before,
0:44:05 > 0:44:09"The mess goes, and all my problems will go."
0:44:09 > 0:44:13Now that the house is largely clear...
0:44:15 > 0:44:19..and the problems inside, the emotional upsets,
0:44:19 > 0:44:23the lack of motivation, that kind of thing...
0:44:23 > 0:44:25..might still be there.
0:44:25 > 0:44:29So we have to also work towards getting some systems
0:44:29 > 0:44:34in place for him, some support networks, you know.
0:44:34 > 0:44:36Something to keep Lawrence upbeat,
0:44:36 > 0:44:39get him out of bed in the morning, and some self-esteem.
0:44:42 > 0:44:45'I've arranged for him to see clinical psychologist
0:44:45 > 0:44:47'Dr Victoria Bream Oldfield,
0:44:47 > 0:44:50'to see if she can give him a plan to deal with this spiral.'
0:44:54 > 0:44:58The bad feeling is that I haven't done any more,
0:44:58 > 0:45:04and I feel quite guilty about not, I don't know, it seems that
0:45:04 > 0:45:07I get up, I watch television, and go to bed, and that's it.
0:45:07 > 0:45:09And I shouldn't be doing that.
0:45:09 > 0:45:12I should be carrying on with the clearing of my bedroom
0:45:12 > 0:45:14and the back room and the second bedroom.
0:45:14 > 0:45:19Right. It sounds like you are being very tough on yourself,
0:45:19 > 0:45:23and you are feeling bad, and in your experience, how easy is it to get
0:45:23 > 0:45:27difficult things done when you're feeling bad and beating yourself up?
0:45:28 > 0:45:30- Not very easy, really, at all.- No, no.
0:45:30 > 0:45:33If you're the same as everyone else then yeah, that's the case.
0:45:33 > 0:45:36If you get out of bed in the morning and berate yourself
0:45:36 > 0:45:37and are tough on yourself,
0:45:37 > 0:45:41that's going to lessen the chances of you getting everything else done.
0:45:41 > 0:45:42Mmm.
0:45:42 > 0:45:44And I guess that's a really important thing
0:45:44 > 0:45:45that we need to take forward.
0:45:45 > 0:45:47How are you feeling just now?
0:45:47 > 0:45:50Because you're looking pretty troubled.
0:45:50 > 0:45:51Upset, again.
0:45:51 > 0:45:55Yeah. What were you thinking about just then?
0:45:55 > 0:45:57Was it something I said that touched a nerve?
0:45:57 > 0:46:02Not maybe being able to get up at all until very late, in the afternoon.
0:46:02 > 0:46:04Yeah.
0:46:04 > 0:46:07And I feel bad about that, as well.
0:46:07 > 0:46:10I guess maybe what we can be on the lookout for
0:46:10 > 0:46:12is what's keeping that going,
0:46:12 > 0:46:15and if there's anything we can start to do that's going to help you
0:46:15 > 0:46:18to feel a bit more able to get out of bed in the morning,
0:46:18 > 0:46:21and start doing things in your day that are going to keep
0:46:21 > 0:46:23your spirits up a bit, keep you feeling a bit
0:46:23 > 0:46:26more like there's something enjoyable you're doing in the day,
0:46:26 > 0:46:29and something where you can feel a bit of that sense of achievement
0:46:29 > 0:46:31and satisfaction of having done something,
0:46:31 > 0:46:33in your house or elsewhere,
0:46:33 > 0:46:36other things that you want to be getting on with in your life.
0:46:36 > 0:46:39Does that sound a reasonable suggestion?
0:46:39 > 0:46:40Yeah.
0:46:45 > 0:46:49'I think Lawrence will gain a huge amount from ongoing therapy.'
0:46:49 > 0:46:52'He's just at the start of his long recovery from hoarding.'
0:46:56 > 0:46:59'Wendy's progress on the same journey seems to have stalled.
0:46:59 > 0:47:02'After a month of micro-sorting in the warehouse,
0:47:02 > 0:47:05'what remains is due to come home today.'
0:47:05 > 0:47:09'To make space for her newly sorted possessions to return,
0:47:09 > 0:47:11'she needs to let some things here go.'
0:47:11 > 0:47:13'I've come to make one last appeal.'
0:47:15 > 0:47:20It's always going to be difficult. It was the same with my mum.
0:47:20 > 0:47:24The day that we had to get out, it was so stressful, it was,
0:47:24 > 0:47:28you know, there were tears.
0:47:28 > 0:47:30It was a nightmare.
0:47:30 > 0:47:37But I think if I can only help Wendy to see that, actually,
0:47:37 > 0:47:43letting go will be pleasurable,
0:47:43 > 0:47:45actually, she would gain so much.
0:47:45 > 0:47:48She's got to think about what she's gaining,
0:47:48 > 0:47:50not what she thinks she's losing.
0:47:50 > 0:47:55Actually all she's losing is stuff that weighs her down.
0:47:55 > 0:47:56Hi, Wendy.
0:47:56 > 0:47:58- Oh, hello, Jasmine. - How are you?
0:47:59 > 0:48:01Well, I don't want to answer that question.
0:48:03 > 0:48:04I'm surviving.
0:48:04 > 0:48:06Surviving.
0:48:06 > 0:48:10I'm not as young as I was, and I can't cope.
0:48:10 > 0:48:11I'm here to help.
0:48:11 > 0:48:14This is my aunt's clothes from the 1950s.
0:48:14 > 0:48:16And what do you want done with them?
0:48:16 > 0:48:17They go in the bath.
0:48:19 > 0:48:20Really?
0:48:20 > 0:48:24Well, because this room's got to be cleared to bring stuff into.
0:48:24 > 0:48:26It'll all have to be piled up again on here.
0:48:27 > 0:48:30Is that really what you want to do, Wendy? Pile everything back up?
0:48:30 > 0:48:31I don't know.
0:48:31 > 0:48:33I can see that it's a lot of stress.
0:48:33 > 0:48:36No, this has all got to go upstairs.
0:48:36 > 0:48:37OK.
0:48:39 > 0:48:42'Wendy is adamant that nothing more can go from the house,
0:48:42 > 0:48:46'despite desperately needing to make space for what's coming back.'
0:48:46 > 0:48:48How can I help you now?
0:48:48 > 0:48:50Just stuff things in bags.
0:48:52 > 0:48:54Stuff things in bags.
0:48:56 > 0:48:58I actually...
0:48:58 > 0:49:02All I'm doing now is making space. Making space.
0:49:02 > 0:49:05I feel bad just throwing everything in bags.
0:49:05 > 0:49:07Don't feel bad about anything.
0:49:07 > 0:49:08I do, because...
0:49:08 > 0:49:10Well, don't!
0:49:10 > 0:49:12It's just making the situation more...
0:49:12 > 0:49:15I've got to put boxes in here, and they can't go in here,
0:49:15 > 0:49:19when all this junk is on the table! I'm just trying to make space.
0:49:19 > 0:49:20Why can't you see that?
0:49:20 > 0:49:22All right, all right.
0:49:22 > 0:49:23God Almighty!
0:49:23 > 0:49:24I'm sorry.
0:49:24 > 0:49:27I'm just saying I would rather we didn't have to put them all in...
0:49:27 > 0:49:30Don't say it, because otherwise I get upset.
0:49:30 > 0:49:32I don't know what I'm allowed to say.
0:49:32 > 0:49:35I don't want to do this either, Jasmine. I don't want to do this.
0:49:35 > 0:49:38Do you really think I want to do this myself?
0:49:38 > 0:49:41Of course I don't, but there's no alternative!
0:49:41 > 0:49:43I just can't have it any more!
0:49:52 > 0:49:54It's very difficult.
0:49:54 > 0:49:57This is not a solution, just putting everything into bags
0:49:57 > 0:49:59and throwing it in the corner, or putting it on the bed.
0:49:59 > 0:50:02That's probably how it started 20 years ago.
0:50:06 > 0:50:10'The final trip to the warehouse can't be put off any longer.'
0:50:10 > 0:50:11'There is some light.'
0:50:13 > 0:50:18'After struggling for weeks to let go of her single biggest hoard,
0:50:18 > 0:50:21'the bags upon bags of newspapers,
0:50:21 > 0:50:22'Wendy's asked us to get rid of them.'
0:50:22 > 0:50:27'After blocking her hallway and dominating the house for 17 years,
0:50:27 > 0:50:31'at the warehouse, they're packed up and ready to go.'
0:50:31 > 0:50:32Wendy, that's pretty amazing.
0:50:35 > 0:50:37What's pretty amazing?
0:50:38 > 0:50:41All of that newspaper sorted to go.
0:50:46 > 0:50:49The newspapers, the newspapers.
0:50:49 > 0:50:55I was amazed that she just didn't bat an eyelash
0:50:55 > 0:50:57when those newspapers went.
0:50:57 > 0:51:03I thought there might be some drama or other,
0:51:03 > 0:51:04but nothing.
0:51:06 > 0:51:09'Getting rid of her precious newspapers will create
0:51:09 > 0:51:13'much-needed space at Wendy's, and she's managed to part
0:51:13 > 0:51:16'with about a third of the rest of her possessions in the warehouse.'
0:51:16 > 0:51:22'She's made progress, but the echoes of her past are never far away.'
0:51:22 > 0:51:25This is the record of my birth, and everything that happened to me.
0:51:25 > 0:51:27My mother was such a perfectionist.
0:51:27 > 0:51:30"Very cheerful, happy child. Always loved going places."
0:51:30 > 0:51:34"Very mischievous into everything. Always made a fuss of."
0:51:34 > 0:51:36"Loved air raids, until we got a bomb."
0:51:38 > 0:51:40"From then on, got frequent nightmares."
0:51:40 > 0:51:42"She got turned out of one place after another,
0:51:42 > 0:51:44"and each time we moved, she got worse."
0:51:44 > 0:51:47"I got very bitter about it all, as especially said
0:51:47 > 0:51:51"she wouldn't get better until we really settled down."
0:51:52 > 0:51:55I wanted to read that, but my mother never told me that.
0:51:57 > 0:52:00She was a very, very fastidious, good, kind woman, my mother,
0:52:00 > 0:52:02but there was no love between us, I'm afraid.
0:52:04 > 0:52:06There's masses of things all about my childhood.
0:52:08 > 0:52:11Well, I'm sure you can enjoy reading through all that,
0:52:11 > 0:52:12now you've rediscovered it.
0:52:14 > 0:52:17'The month in the warehouse has been really tough for Wendy,
0:52:17 > 0:52:21'but by letting her newspapers go, and engaging with the past,
0:52:21 > 0:52:24'I think she's taken a big step forward.'
0:52:24 > 0:52:30It has been funny at times, stressful at times.
0:52:30 > 0:52:31Heartbreaking at times.
0:52:34 > 0:52:36But this is...
0:52:38 > 0:52:44It's a work in progress. I just hope that Wendy feels like...
0:52:46 > 0:52:53..some progress has been made, and that she will keep going with it.
0:52:53 > 0:53:00I just don't want to find that she's stagnated, nothing's changed.
0:53:00 > 0:53:03She's been intending to do things with all these
0:53:03 > 0:53:06possessions for decades.
0:53:06 > 0:53:07We'll see.
0:53:17 > 0:53:20'When I met Lawrence four months ago, he was at his wit's end.'
0:53:20 > 0:53:24'His house was full of rubbish and old electrical appliances.'
0:53:24 > 0:53:28'Now I've come, for one last time, to check on his progress.'
0:53:28 > 0:53:30I'm excited! I've heard good things.
0:53:30 > 0:53:32Uh-huh?
0:53:32 > 0:53:33- Right.- Oh, my God.
0:53:38 > 0:53:40It looks almost like a proper front room.
0:53:40 > 0:53:42You can sit down, you've got space.
0:53:42 > 0:53:46Yeah, got a little bit of sorting out to do.
0:53:46 > 0:53:48So that's stuff that you're keeping.
0:53:48 > 0:53:50Yeah, just needs to go through.
0:53:50 > 0:53:54Are you ready for this? This will be a big shock, I think.
0:53:54 > 0:53:56Oh!
0:53:59 > 0:54:02I was going to move that, but...
0:54:02 > 0:54:06This is amazing. So how's it been, having a working kitchen?
0:54:06 > 0:54:08It's great, fantastic.
0:54:08 > 0:54:09I've got my microwave,
0:54:09 > 0:54:13and I've got my other cooker with the two hotplates there that I use.
0:54:13 > 0:54:17Yeah, it's great, fantastic.
0:54:17 > 0:54:19Come and have a look down here.
0:54:19 > 0:54:22I've actually never been beyond that point before.
0:54:26 > 0:54:27Oh!
0:54:30 > 0:54:35Yeah, it's fantastic, having my space back.
0:54:35 > 0:54:38I mean, obviously, when I get...
0:54:38 > 0:54:42I hope I can get it even better than it is at the moment.
0:54:42 > 0:54:44Of course you can.
0:54:44 > 0:54:46Have you been able to get on with anything
0:54:46 > 0:54:49when you haven't had other people here, or other people coming round?
0:54:49 > 0:54:52I hate to say I haven't done anything.
0:54:52 > 0:54:55I haven't been able to do anything. Why is that? I don't know.
0:54:55 > 0:54:58Depression? I just haven't managed to...
0:54:59 > 0:55:00Motivate yourself.
0:55:00 > 0:55:02Yeah, motivate myself.
0:55:02 > 0:55:04I mean, as we spoke to Victoria and she said,
0:55:04 > 0:55:06- "Well, don't beat yourself up." - Exactly.
0:55:06 > 0:55:08But I do beat myself up,
0:55:08 > 0:55:12because I feel guilty that I haven't done anything on my own.
0:55:12 > 0:55:16We've been talking right from the start about getting the old
0:55:16 > 0:55:21Lawrence back, but I think even in reinventing the new Lawrence
0:55:21 > 0:55:24is probably even better, because things have changed,
0:55:24 > 0:55:27and you've had a lot of different experiences.
0:55:27 > 0:55:28Yeah.
0:55:28 > 0:55:30And really, the world is your oyster.
0:55:36 > 0:55:39'For Lawrence, clearing his hoard is just the start of the journey
0:55:39 > 0:55:43'to discovering what life could be with a proper home to live in.'
0:55:45 > 0:55:50'In south London, two months after we moved her possessions back from
0:55:50 > 0:55:53'the warehouse, Wendy is at home, and I've come for one final visit.'
0:55:54 > 0:55:56Wendy?
0:55:56 > 0:55:57- Yes?- Hi!
0:55:59 > 0:56:01Hello.
0:56:01 > 0:56:05I reckon, in here, Wendy,
0:56:05 > 0:56:09there's probably about 70% less than the was the first time I came here.
0:56:09 > 0:56:10Yes.
0:56:10 > 0:56:13Because, do you remember, it was just a tiny gap.
0:56:13 > 0:56:14Yes, I know, I know.
0:56:14 > 0:56:18You couldn't get. There was a little, tiny bit of...
0:56:18 > 0:56:19- Yes, I know.- It's amazing!
0:56:21 > 0:56:22Oh, Wendy.
0:56:23 > 0:56:26'There's still a lot of stuff at Wendy's,
0:56:26 > 0:56:30'but she's made a start, which is often the hardest step of all.'
0:56:30 > 0:56:33The thing is, as long as I can get to bed...
0:56:33 > 0:56:38Exactly! I mean, you can actually get into bed.
0:56:38 > 0:56:41Before, it was up to here, and it was up to the ceiling.
0:56:45 > 0:56:52I honestly never expected you to let go of so much stuff!
0:56:52 > 0:56:55All those newspapers, all the clothes that have gone.
0:56:55 > 0:56:57Well, actually, Giovanni was flabbergasted,
0:56:57 > 0:56:59the day I let the newspapers go.
0:56:59 > 0:57:01He really was speechless. He couldn't believe it.
0:57:01 > 0:57:05'And her best friend Giovanni is doing his bit to keep her going
0:57:05 > 0:57:07'with regular encouragement.'
0:57:07 > 0:57:10"You've done well so far, but only for..."
0:57:10 > 0:57:12"But only for your sake, and remember,
0:57:12 > 0:57:14"you can never take your stuff with you for ever."
0:57:14 > 0:57:16"Love, G."
0:57:16 > 0:57:20Do you know, that is a true friend, who is saying to you, do it,
0:57:20 > 0:57:23because actually, you can't take this stuff with you.
0:57:23 > 0:57:28Your sake, he said, it's for your sake. Not for his sake.
0:57:28 > 0:57:31You don't care about his sake!
0:57:31 > 0:57:35You have to do it for your own sake, nobody else.
0:57:37 > 0:57:43I think, for somebody who just felt they were worthless,
0:57:43 > 0:57:47now she's starting to acknowledge her successes.
0:57:49 > 0:57:52All of the hoarders I've met,
0:57:52 > 0:57:56they feel ostracised from their families and from society.
0:57:57 > 0:58:03But actually, what they need is not judgement, they need support,
0:58:03 > 0:58:07and with the right support, miracles can happen.
0:58:50 > 0:58:53Subtitles by Red Bee Media