0:00:05 > 0:00:07We met at work.
0:00:07 > 0:00:10We just clicked, something in us clicked.
0:00:10 > 0:00:12He was nice-looking.
0:00:12 > 0:00:13We just really loved each other.
0:00:17 > 0:00:20Where did all that go so sadly wrong?
0:00:20 > 0:00:23When people come to see us, their relationships are over.
0:00:23 > 0:00:28They're in dispute about the most fundamental things in their lives.
0:00:28 > 0:00:30All right, are we ready to go through?
0:00:30 > 0:00:34This is Britain's hidden world of family mediation.
0:00:34 > 0:00:37The house was going to be our financial security
0:00:37 > 0:00:39for when we sold it and downsized later on in life.
0:00:39 > 0:00:43He comes back, spends time with the kids and he disappears back to his
0:00:43 > 0:00:44new woman, and I've had enough of it.
0:00:44 > 0:00:47It's just pure bitterness and that's why she's doing it.
0:00:47 > 0:00:49Why should I put up with somebody who's acting like that?
0:00:49 > 0:00:53For a year, we follow the work of National Family Mediation,
0:00:53 > 0:00:56who try to help feuding couples to reach agreement.
0:00:56 > 0:00:59Did I leave with any jewellery? Did I leave with any jewellery?
0:00:59 > 0:01:01- That's all I'm asking. - I'm asking you.
0:01:01 > 0:01:03They need to find a compromise...
0:01:03 > 0:01:0420,000's nothing.
0:01:04 > 0:01:06I'm not just having that.
0:01:06 > 0:01:09..to avoid a costly court battle.
0:01:09 > 0:01:11Why can't you come to London?
0:01:11 > 0:01:14Why should a two-year-old child have to travel?
0:01:14 > 0:01:17Are you able to stay in the room and continue this...?
0:01:17 > 0:01:20- Yeah, I am.- She's going to sit there and make snidey remarks.
0:01:40 > 0:01:42Hello, there. My name is Chris.
0:01:42 > 0:01:45You left us a voicemail stating you were interested
0:01:45 > 0:01:47in our mediation services.
0:01:58 > 0:02:03People are coming to you in a time of stress, heightened anxiety.
0:02:03 > 0:02:04They've got a lot going on.
0:02:08 > 0:02:12They're being asked to sit in a room and negotiate
0:02:12 > 0:02:14with somebody that they
0:02:14 > 0:02:19perhaps don't respect and really don't want to be talking to.
0:02:19 > 0:02:20Have a seat.
0:02:20 > 0:02:23'The atmosphere in the room can be quite charged.'
0:02:25 > 0:02:29What's going to happen is I'm going to go and get Lizzie in a minute.
0:02:29 > 0:02:31- Yeah.- You'll both be next to each other.
0:02:31 > 0:02:32How does that feel for you?
0:02:32 > 0:02:34Well, I ain't seen her for months so I don't know.
0:02:34 > 0:02:36When was the last time you saw her?
0:02:38 > 0:02:39March.
0:02:39 > 0:02:43- All right. So what I'm going to do is go and get her.- Yeah, no problem.
0:02:43 > 0:02:45- So a couple of deep breaths and I'll be back.- All right.
0:02:50 > 0:02:53'Our relationship finished six months ago.
0:02:53 > 0:02:57'We couldn't agree on terms about our son.'
0:02:57 > 0:03:00You can't reason with her. She is argumentative.
0:03:00 > 0:03:01You can't do it.
0:03:13 > 0:03:15Come in. Are you OK to sit there?
0:03:15 > 0:03:17- Yeah, that's fine. - Do you want to hang your...?
0:03:17 > 0:03:19- There's a chair back there. - Yeah, thanks, Irene.
0:03:19 > 0:03:22'We're here because of him, not cos of me.'
0:03:22 > 0:03:24The thing about Richie is he needs someone to blame.
0:03:24 > 0:03:26But never himself.
0:03:31 > 0:03:36Lizzie and Richie have come to mediation to try to solve a problem.
0:03:36 > 0:03:39Where will Richie see their son now that they live
0:03:39 > 0:03:41almost 100 miles apart?
0:03:41 > 0:03:44So, we're here to talk about Teddy.
0:03:44 > 0:03:46- That's what you both call him, yeah? - Yes.- OK.
0:03:46 > 0:03:48Remind me, how old is Teddy?
0:03:48 > 0:03:50- 18 months.- Ooh, lovely age.
0:03:53 > 0:03:55So I don't mind who talks to me first.
0:03:55 > 0:03:56You're both going to talk to me.
0:03:56 > 0:03:58Liz can go first if she wants.
0:03:58 > 0:04:00Basically, I'm here just to get...
0:04:00 > 0:04:02I did try to make an arrangement with Richie,
0:04:02 > 0:04:04which he wasn't happy with,
0:04:04 > 0:04:05which is why we are here today.
0:04:05 > 0:04:08So, basically, all I want is for that to be, sort of, set up.
0:04:08 > 0:04:11- I'm not...- It's about setting up an arrangement for Teddy.
0:04:11 > 0:04:12Yeah, so that nobody can say,
0:04:12 > 0:04:15you stopped me doing this or you didn't allow it
0:04:15 > 0:04:17or you put barriers up.
0:04:18 > 0:04:20Which I don't think I have.
0:04:23 > 0:04:25And for you, Richie, what do you want to talk about?
0:04:25 > 0:04:30My thing is, cos I live in London and Ted lives in Isle of Wight,
0:04:30 > 0:04:33my issue is, I want him with me in London
0:04:33 > 0:04:35and all my family should see him.
0:04:35 > 0:04:36So we want to look at the extended family.
0:04:36 > 0:04:38My whole family miss him like anything.
0:04:38 > 0:04:41They ain't seen him for three, four months.
0:04:41 > 0:04:42I hear what Richie's saying,
0:04:42 > 0:04:44that he misses his son and all he wants is his son,
0:04:44 > 0:04:47but he's had every opportunity to see him.
0:04:47 > 0:04:49- I don't understand.- Lie.
0:04:49 > 0:04:51- Richie, I feel that you're... - I'll let you talk in a minute.
0:04:51 > 0:04:53I'm not a liar, actually. I'm not a liar.
0:04:53 > 0:04:54I said, come to the Isle of Wight.
0:04:54 > 0:04:57He could have come and seen him but he keeps saying,
0:04:57 > 0:04:58"All I want to do is see my son."
0:04:58 > 0:05:01Well, then don't go out on a weekend and maybe you could have seen him.
0:05:03 > 0:05:06I think that Lizzie never thought that I would move back to London.
0:05:06 > 0:05:08I honestly do believe that.
0:05:13 > 0:05:15She could probably say, "No, no, I didn't care."
0:05:15 > 0:05:17- Thank you.- Here we go.- Cheers, mate.
0:05:17 > 0:05:19But I honestly think that she thinks
0:05:19 > 0:05:21that I shouldn't have left her down there.
0:05:21 > 0:05:25In 2014, Lizzie and Richie moved from London
0:05:25 > 0:05:29to start a new life on the Isle of Wight, near Lizzie's parents.
0:05:31 > 0:05:34I made a go of it because Lizzie wanted to make a go of it.
0:05:34 > 0:05:36There's less worries down there for children than in London,
0:05:36 > 0:05:39I have to say that. But if there's no work and you're arguing
0:05:39 > 0:05:41all the time, what are you meant to do?
0:05:41 > 0:05:43So, obviously, I'm going to move back to where I know.
0:05:43 > 0:05:45Lovely, cheers, thanks a lot, mate, thank you.
0:05:45 > 0:05:48And I don't understand why Lizzie's putting a block on it
0:05:48 > 0:05:51where he's not allowed to come to my family or my mum's house
0:05:51 > 0:05:54and I can't have him. I don't know why there's such a fuss about it,
0:05:54 > 0:05:56if I'm going to be totally honest.
0:05:58 > 0:06:01You can't just expect a young child to be able to go somewhere
0:06:01 > 0:06:04for a certain amount, say two weeks, three weeks.
0:06:04 > 0:06:07He has to have contact, really,
0:06:07 > 0:06:12on a very regular basis for Teddy to benefit from spending that time,
0:06:12 > 0:06:16to build a relationship again with his dad, so I think Richie
0:06:16 > 0:06:20does need to see him very regularly, as in every other week.
0:06:20 > 0:06:21And in my eyes,
0:06:21 > 0:06:24if I had to go to the Isle of Wight every weekend to see Teddy,
0:06:24 > 0:06:27if the tables were turned, I would do it.
0:06:27 > 0:06:28Liz, it is a lot of money to come down here,
0:06:28 > 0:06:30stay in a hotel on the Isle of Wight.
0:06:30 > 0:06:33Isle of Wight is the most expensive place to go in the UK.
0:06:33 > 0:06:35It's a nightmare.
0:06:36 > 0:06:40He'll tell you that he split up with me...by the way.
0:06:40 > 0:06:44But I think it was probably, let's just say, mutual,
0:06:44 > 0:06:45more mutual my side.
0:06:46 > 0:06:49He wouldn't literally do anything in the house.
0:06:52 > 0:06:54"Why don't you do the garden?" "Na."
0:06:54 > 0:06:56Not doing anything for Teddy,
0:06:56 > 0:07:00not pulling his weight but thinking he was doing the world cos he had to
0:07:00 > 0:07:01watch him for an hour or two.
0:07:01 > 0:07:03Wow. Big deal.
0:07:04 > 0:07:06We had to split up. There was no other way.
0:07:08 > 0:07:10So, he moved back.
0:07:10 > 0:07:14He was going to get his own place, I don't know what happened there,
0:07:14 > 0:07:16and he ended up back at his mum's.
0:07:19 > 0:07:22I don't want Ted to go down to London,
0:07:22 > 0:07:26stay at Richie's mum's and Richie's mum look after him when Richie,
0:07:26 > 0:07:28"All right, Ted," or Richie might give him his dinner
0:07:28 > 0:07:31but then I'm going out with my mates. No.
0:07:31 > 0:07:32I don't want that.
0:07:32 > 0:07:35It always seems it has to be on her terms and no way.
0:07:35 > 0:07:38And that's what I always feel. There's no budging whatsoever.
0:07:38 > 0:07:41You know why, Richie? Because you bullied me for years
0:07:41 > 0:07:43and I'm sick of it, and now, I'm standing up for myself.
0:07:43 > 0:07:47- Have I asked this question?- Hold on. Now I'm standing up for myself.
0:07:47 > 0:07:49I'm standing up for myself because I can.
0:07:49 > 0:07:50Liz, you can do what you want, love.
0:07:50 > 0:07:52But at the end of the day, you do not budge.
0:07:52 > 0:07:55You're not bullying me into doing something, you're not.
0:07:55 > 0:07:57If I wanted to see my son as much as you're saying,
0:07:57 > 0:07:58then I would do what was necessary.
0:07:58 > 0:08:00I am, but why, at the end of the day,
0:08:00 > 0:08:01I'm coming to the Isle of Wight?
0:08:01 > 0:08:04I also want him with me in London, you know?
0:08:11 > 0:08:16# I walk along the city streets you used to walk along with me
0:08:18 > 0:08:23# And every step I take recalls how much in love we used to be
0:08:23 > 0:08:28# Oh, how can I forget you?
0:08:28 > 0:08:31# When there is always something there to remind me
0:08:34 > 0:08:38# Always something there to remind me... #
0:08:47 > 0:08:50'We had a lot of history together. We laughed a lot, we cried a lot.
0:08:50 > 0:08:55'We argued a lot, you know, like most couples do.
0:08:55 > 0:08:58'You think that you're in a partnership for life.'
0:08:58 > 0:09:01You don't never expect that 5, 10, 15 years,
0:09:01 > 0:09:0520 years down the line that you fall out of love with somebody and that
0:09:05 > 0:09:08you decide that you don't want to live with them no more.
0:09:12 > 0:09:14All right?
0:09:20 > 0:09:23There was no love. There was no love between us.
0:09:23 > 0:09:25And it got worse as we were going on.
0:09:27 > 0:09:29I just felt unhappy and I just said it.
0:09:29 > 0:09:32"All right, I'm moving out. I've had enough."
0:09:33 > 0:09:36She packed all me clothes and I was manhandled out.
0:09:36 > 0:09:39She literally wants me
0:09:39 > 0:09:41as if I don't exist.
0:09:43 > 0:09:47When people break up, they're often left with a whole set of tricky
0:09:47 > 0:09:48problems to solve.
0:09:49 > 0:09:51And as a mediator,
0:09:51 > 0:09:53the first thing I need to do is to work out what each of them wants to
0:09:53 > 0:09:57talk about. And it's not always the same thing.
0:10:00 > 0:10:02How's Josh?
0:10:02 > 0:10:04- He's all right.- Is he good?
0:10:04 > 0:10:07- Behaving himself?- Yeah.
0:10:07 > 0:10:11This is the first time Mandy and Peter have seen each other
0:10:11 > 0:10:13since they split up six years ago.
0:10:15 > 0:10:17- You must be Peter. I'm Lesley. - Hello, Lesley.
0:10:17 > 0:10:21- Pleased to meet you.- Mandy. Would you like to come in?- Yeah.
0:10:21 > 0:10:25Peter's problem is getting to see their teenage son, Josh.
0:10:25 > 0:10:29Mandy's issue is that Peter still has a claim to half of their flat.
0:10:35 > 0:10:39I brought it forward to come about the property that we
0:10:39 > 0:10:41both co-own at the moment.
0:10:41 > 0:10:44OK. And, Peter, is that what you're here for?
0:10:44 > 0:10:46I've come about getting access to the son,
0:10:46 > 0:10:49the property and personal belongings.
0:10:49 > 0:10:51OK. If I put all of those up...
0:10:53 > 0:10:54..as an agenda...
0:10:57 > 0:11:02Me and Peter, we met in June of 1991.
0:11:02 > 0:11:06We kind of courted, as you do then, back in the olden days.
0:11:09 > 0:11:13We bought this property and then set up home together, hoping it would be
0:11:13 > 0:11:17forever. And then a few years later,
0:11:17 > 0:11:20you know, Josh came along.
0:11:20 > 0:11:24I thought our family was complete then, but things change.
0:11:25 > 0:11:28Peter walked out on
0:11:28 > 0:11:3210 February 2010.
0:11:32 > 0:11:34And that was the last time I saw him.
0:11:35 > 0:11:38At the end of the day, Peter is on the mortgage.
0:11:38 > 0:11:40His name's legally binding there.
0:11:41 > 0:11:45If I died, Joshua could then have nothing.
0:11:45 > 0:11:49Peter could legally come in, take it all away.
0:11:49 > 0:11:53I'm asking him just to sign the property over in my name,
0:11:53 > 0:11:54and that is it.
0:11:56 > 0:11:58I'm not asking it for selfish reasons.
0:11:58 > 0:12:00I'm looking at it for our son.
0:12:03 > 0:12:09I've come here today to ensure that our son has a secure future and to
0:12:09 > 0:12:11ensure that he's got a roof over his head
0:12:11 > 0:12:15and that he can continue living there.
0:12:15 > 0:12:18- And for you, Peter?- The same.
0:12:18 > 0:12:22I might have left the property, but he's living there with Amanda
0:12:22 > 0:12:23and I agree with.
0:12:23 > 0:12:27But if Mandy wishes to sell the property at any point,
0:12:27 > 0:12:32we were in a relationship, therefore it's 50-50 at the time.
0:12:32 > 0:12:35OK, I left, that is irrelevant to the point,
0:12:35 > 0:12:39but the property is in joint name.
0:12:42 > 0:12:44We were together for 19 years.
0:12:46 > 0:12:49She was good fun. She always loved to have a laugh
0:12:49 > 0:12:52and a joke and it was great.
0:12:52 > 0:12:55It was like a happy relationship.
0:12:55 > 0:12:59We actually moved in on February 1998.
0:12:59 > 0:13:02To get the money together, we were doing two jobs.
0:13:02 > 0:13:05I was doing a curry run, delivering people's curries,
0:13:05 > 0:13:07plus a full-time job.
0:13:07 > 0:13:11Mandy was doing her job, plus she was doing a little cleaning job
0:13:11 > 0:13:13in a health fitness centre.
0:13:15 > 0:13:17We worked hard to get it.
0:13:18 > 0:13:20That flat was bought as our retirement.
0:13:22 > 0:13:24Mandy and Peter's investment
0:13:24 > 0:13:27was a small former council flat in Wimbledon.
0:13:29 > 0:13:33Just around the corner from the world-famous tennis courts.
0:13:35 > 0:13:38They bought it for £50,000,
0:13:38 > 0:13:41but today it's worth around 350,000.
0:13:41 > 0:13:46Why should I just turn around to her and say, "OK, it's yours, bye-bye"?
0:13:48 > 0:13:52When I got with Mandy, it was a 50-50 relationship.
0:13:52 > 0:13:55All relationships are meant to be 50-50, Peter.
0:13:55 > 0:13:57- OK.- Until one walks out.
0:13:57 > 0:14:03One walked out for reasons we're not going to talk about at the moment.
0:14:04 > 0:14:07So, it feels to you like when Peter left,
0:14:07 > 0:14:10he left behind any rights he had.
0:14:10 > 0:14:15I don't want him stealing our life, or my life, should I say.
0:14:15 > 0:14:19I'm asking him nicely to sign it over and walk away.
0:14:29 > 0:14:30We know that mediation's not easy.
0:14:30 > 0:14:33That's what coming in and having a chat to us is about,
0:14:33 > 0:14:37and it's working out what actually does make the most sense, you know,
0:14:37 > 0:14:41for you and for the whole situation and moving on from there, really.
0:14:41 > 0:14:42Mediation is voluntary,
0:14:42 > 0:14:46so we're not here to impose solutions on people.
0:14:46 > 0:14:51Our aim is to give them the space and the opportunity to find a way
0:14:51 > 0:14:53forward for themselves.
0:14:53 > 0:14:56All right, so, let's start to work on some of these issues, then,
0:14:56 > 0:14:59that you've brought to the table.
0:15:00 > 0:15:03My issue is that you've got to, I believe, that...
0:15:03 > 0:15:05Cos when my mum and dad split up -
0:15:05 > 0:15:07Lizzie's never had her mum and dad split up so she don't know.
0:15:07 > 0:15:09My mum and dad split up. It was the worst thing.
0:15:09 > 0:15:11But then on the other hand,
0:15:11 > 0:15:13I know people that have split up and are friends with their
0:15:13 > 0:15:16ex-partners for their kids' sake. Their kids are brilliant.
0:15:16 > 0:15:17Which is what we're trying...
0:15:17 > 0:15:18That's what I'm trying to say.
0:15:18 > 0:15:21We need to build bridges ourself when we see each other.
0:15:21 > 0:15:23Not sitting here now. I mean, when we see each other,
0:15:23 > 0:15:25do you know what I mean, Liz?
0:15:25 > 0:15:28Maybe if you can just be civil and I don't get abuse
0:15:28 > 0:15:33because he's angry that day or he's annoyed with me or, you know,
0:15:33 > 0:15:35I don't feel I should put up with that,
0:15:35 > 0:15:38because I don't reciprocate what he does to me.
0:15:38 > 0:15:41I don't do it back to him because I don't see the point in it.
0:15:41 > 0:15:43At the end of the day, Liz, yeah.
0:15:43 > 0:15:44It was raw, so we were arguing,
0:15:44 > 0:15:47we couldn't stand the sight of each other, both ways.
0:15:47 > 0:15:49But now I'm not like that.
0:15:49 > 0:15:51I don't need to be bitter towards Liz.
0:15:51 > 0:15:53I understand Richie is frustrated.
0:15:53 > 0:15:56Look, I wouldn't be human if I didn't understand that.
0:15:56 > 0:15:58I'm happy she said that cos that's all it is.
0:15:58 > 0:16:01I must admit, I've got a wicked tongue, I ain't going to lie.
0:16:01 > 0:16:05In that case, you know, I understand that, but in all these years,
0:16:05 > 0:16:07and I've told him even before Teddy come along,
0:16:07 > 0:16:11you need to channel that frustration in a different way because
0:16:11 > 0:16:13the way he goes about things makes things worse.
0:16:13 > 0:16:17So I think maybe we have to look at this in stages and hopefully,
0:16:17 > 0:16:20with whatever you start with now,
0:16:20 > 0:16:24that's not going to be how it's going to be forever because
0:16:24 > 0:16:29he has two parents, which means he has two homes,
0:16:29 > 0:16:34which means he should spend time in those two homes.
0:16:34 > 0:16:36- Yeah.- So what I'm asking is,
0:16:36 > 0:16:40can you both give and take a little bit now
0:16:40 > 0:16:43and maybe if you do some of
0:16:43 > 0:16:47the giving now, what I would expect of you, Lizzie,
0:16:47 > 0:16:52- is that you do some of the giving perhaps in the next step.- Yeah.
0:16:52 > 0:16:57So in terms of this first stage, what might it look like?
0:17:01 > 0:17:05Well, basically, a first stage is going to have to be on the island,
0:17:05 > 0:17:08isn't it? Cos, obviously, that's what Liz wants, so that's the...
0:17:08 > 0:17:11The first stage has got to be on Lizzie's rules, basically.
0:17:11 > 0:17:13Not rules, but, like, agreement,
0:17:13 > 0:17:15and I'll have to go to the Isle of Wight.
0:17:15 > 0:17:18How often do you think, realistically, that is affordable?
0:17:18 > 0:17:21Realistically, Isle of Wight, once a month.
0:17:21 > 0:17:23- Once a month.- And that's realistically.- Yeah.
0:17:23 > 0:17:26For me and for Teddy, I'd need Richie to prove
0:17:26 > 0:17:28that it isn't going...
0:17:28 > 0:17:31Teddy isn't going to be dropped because he's got something to do
0:17:31 > 0:17:35or he's going out. Please, Richie, you do do that.
0:17:35 > 0:17:39How many times would Richie need to
0:17:39 > 0:17:42do this before we can review it and
0:17:42 > 0:17:45then start to look at stage two?
0:17:45 > 0:17:48I think, it couldn't just be two times, I don't think that's enough.
0:17:48 > 0:17:51- OK.- I think it would probably maybe be four times.
0:17:51 > 0:17:54- And you're saying you'd...- I'm happy with that. Four times is happy.
0:17:54 > 0:17:56I'm more than happy with four times to come down the Isle of Wight.
0:17:56 > 0:17:59Let me try and squeeze it on this same piece of paper.
0:18:04 > 0:18:07Here's a thing. First day, I come down next Saturday.
0:18:07 > 0:18:10You want me to put that down as a definite agreement, then?
0:18:10 > 0:18:14- But only for the day, like, it will be a day one, yeah.- Yeah.- Lovely.
0:18:22 > 0:18:26I asked you to either sign the property off, OK?
0:18:26 > 0:18:30I will take over all the debt and you walk away from it, right?
0:18:30 > 0:18:34- Yeah.- Or you back pay the last six years and you continue paying
0:18:34 > 0:18:38half the mortgage and the cost of the maintenance as well.
0:18:38 > 0:18:43So, Peter left six years ago, you've been paying
0:18:43 > 0:18:46- the mortgage and the bills since then?- Yeah.
0:18:48 > 0:18:52I never expected it would come to this.
0:18:52 > 0:18:56He may tell you a different story, but I think that he felt neglected.
0:18:56 > 0:18:58He said that he wasn't happy,
0:18:58 > 0:19:01that I spend more time with my family and not him.
0:19:02 > 0:19:07And on this occasion, my mum was taken ill and rushed into hospital.
0:19:07 > 0:19:11I remember standing in the kitchen where we are now and him telling us
0:19:11 > 0:19:15we need to talk, and I turned round at this point and I said to him,
0:19:15 > 0:19:19"You know, you...you know, my mum's ill.
0:19:19 > 0:19:22"She's in hospital, you know. I just... You know,
0:19:22 > 0:19:25"don't be so selfish."
0:19:25 > 0:19:30And then he told me that he wanted to take time out
0:19:30 > 0:19:34and for me to decide what I wanted - my family or him.
0:19:34 > 0:19:37I then packed a suitcase for him,
0:19:37 > 0:19:40put it out the front door and asked him to leave.
0:19:41 > 0:19:47Not once since the separation have I ever not paid the mortgage.
0:19:47 > 0:19:51It's a lot of money that he'll have to pay, a lot of money.
0:19:51 > 0:19:53There is no way I pay maintenance.
0:19:53 > 0:19:57I pay my rent, I also play travel.
0:19:57 > 0:20:00And my wages would not cover paying
0:20:00 > 0:20:03towards the mortgage. I am not asking for 50-50.
0:20:03 > 0:20:06I am not asking for 50-50.
0:20:06 > 0:20:09- OK.- If Mandy sells the property, then, as I said, we will talk again.
0:20:12 > 0:20:14OK. Any other options?
0:20:14 > 0:20:16She buys me out.
0:20:16 > 0:20:18And how am I going to buy you out?
0:20:18 > 0:20:20I'm a single mum with a child.
0:20:20 > 0:20:23I would have to take out another mortgage.
0:20:23 > 0:20:26The debt we took up when you was out of work, remember that, Peter.
0:20:26 > 0:20:28Hang on. 50-50 when we were together.
0:20:28 > 0:20:30- You were out of work, Peter. - We were 50-50.
0:20:30 > 0:20:33- How many times was you out of...? - I stood by you, you stood by me.
0:20:33 > 0:20:35You never stood by me. I was never out of work.
0:20:35 > 0:20:36I didn't say you were.
0:20:36 > 0:20:39- I said...- 27 years I've been at my job.
0:20:39 > 0:20:41How many jobs have you had in that 27 years?
0:20:44 > 0:20:46'I'm being punished.'
0:20:46 > 0:20:50I'm being punished for walking out on her, for leaving her.
0:20:50 > 0:20:53She wants that flat, but I don't want her just taking it away from me
0:20:53 > 0:20:58and saying, "Right, you don't exist. You're gone. You're history."
0:20:58 > 0:21:01It's the only thing I've got to keep hold of my son.
0:21:01 > 0:21:04I feel that if I lose the flat, then I'll lose him
0:21:04 > 0:21:07and I lose everything and it will all be gone.
0:21:09 > 0:21:13If Peter was to say none of your three options work for him and you
0:21:13 > 0:21:17were to say none of Peter's two options work for you...
0:21:17 > 0:21:20Then there's no starting point for negotiation.
0:21:23 > 0:21:25Something has to shift.
0:21:39 > 0:21:44# Love and marriage Love and marriage
0:21:44 > 0:21:47# Go together like a horse and carriage
0:21:47 > 0:21:52# This I tell you, brother
0:21:52 > 0:21:57# You can't have one without the other. #
0:22:12 > 0:22:16A marriage is something that you should want to keep going.
0:22:16 > 0:22:18When you try, you get nowhere.
0:22:20 > 0:22:24You can only get beaten down so many times before - a phrase,
0:22:24 > 0:22:26if the horse is dead, get off.
0:22:32 > 0:22:35When he's sold the house...
0:22:35 > 0:22:38we obviously need to decide who's going to get what.
0:22:40 > 0:22:44I think it just all boils down to what he's willing to give
0:22:44 > 0:22:46for me and the kids to survive.
0:22:48 > 0:22:51Yvonne and her husband Alan have two young children.
0:22:51 > 0:22:54They're divorcing after 13 years together.
0:22:58 > 0:23:02Couples who are divorcing often come here because they're struggling
0:23:02 > 0:23:03to divide their finances.
0:23:05 > 0:23:08They need to be able to afford to live separately,
0:23:08 > 0:23:13but there simply isn't enough money for life to go on as it did before.
0:23:21 > 0:23:24Alan and Yvonne need to make decisions quickly.
0:23:24 > 0:23:26Their house is about to be sold,
0:23:26 > 0:23:29but they can't agree how to split the cash.
0:23:29 > 0:23:31So, have you both started to think about
0:23:31 > 0:23:35where you are going to be living
0:23:35 > 0:23:38and how much it's going to cost you to live there?
0:23:38 > 0:23:42Well, I've got a short-term option, but it is a short-term option
0:23:42 > 0:23:47while we sort things out, is that I should go and live with my mother.
0:23:47 > 0:23:51- OK.- But, in the long-term...
0:23:51 > 0:23:55Well, I don't know where I'm going to live.
0:23:59 > 0:24:03We've got a four-bedroom house and knowing that you're going to lose it
0:24:03 > 0:24:05is heartbreaking. That's why...
0:24:05 > 0:24:08That's why I think we've stayed where we are.
0:24:08 > 0:24:10For the last two years,
0:24:10 > 0:24:14Alan and Yvonne had been living separate lives in the same house.
0:24:14 > 0:24:16Sleeping in separate bedrooms.
0:24:17 > 0:24:21We're at either ends of the landing upstairs with the two kids
0:24:21 > 0:24:24in the middle and that's, basically, what we've been doing for
0:24:24 > 0:24:27the last couple of years as sort of living arrangements.
0:24:28 > 0:24:32I was always hopeful that, yes, we could work things out.
0:24:34 > 0:24:36But there was no
0:24:36 > 0:24:39willingness on the other side...
0:24:40 > 0:24:42..so there's no point.
0:24:44 > 0:24:48Yvonne, what's your position in terms of your income?
0:24:48 > 0:24:51Currently, or when I become a single parent?
0:24:51 > 0:24:55When you... Yes, when you physically separate,
0:24:55 > 0:24:57what will your financial position be?
0:24:57 > 0:25:01I won't have a job, cos I'll be moving away.
0:25:01 > 0:25:03The only thing will be benefits.
0:25:03 > 0:25:07OK. So bearing that in mind, same question to you.
0:25:07 > 0:25:09What are your accommodation costs going to be?
0:25:09 > 0:25:13If I get the money from the split of the house, then I won't have a
0:25:13 > 0:25:15- mortgage, I'll be able to buy the house outright.- Mm-hm.
0:25:15 > 0:25:17So that's what you'll be looking for,
0:25:17 > 0:25:19- to buy a property mortgage-free. - Yeah.
0:25:21 > 0:25:23Well, my priority is obviously the kids.
0:25:26 > 0:25:30It's got to this point now, I don't want my kids growing up in this environment.
0:25:30 > 0:25:32We never do anything as a family.
0:25:33 > 0:25:35We're showing them all the wrong things.
0:25:38 > 0:25:40Obviously, they're going to come with me.
0:25:40 > 0:25:45I need to be able to house them properly, without any hassle or strain or stress.
0:25:46 > 0:25:50Yvonne set out to find an affordable new home for herself
0:25:50 > 0:25:52and the two children, Lewis and Brooke.
0:25:54 > 0:25:56And she thinks she's found one.
0:25:56 > 0:25:57But it's in Somerset,
0:25:57 > 0:26:01over 100 miles from where the family currently live.
0:26:03 > 0:26:06I would like to stay local, but it's just not possible.
0:26:06 > 0:26:08Anywhere within the Surrey,
0:26:08 > 0:26:10Hampshire area is just going to be too expensive.
0:26:10 > 0:26:12We found a house, they like the house,
0:26:12 > 0:26:14they've already picked out their bedrooms.
0:26:14 > 0:26:17They know we're not that far away from beaches and stuff.
0:26:17 > 0:26:19It's a completely different lifestyle.
0:26:21 > 0:26:25Well...I'm not totally happy with it,
0:26:25 > 0:26:29but I can see it's a fait accompli
0:26:29 > 0:26:33for reasons of buying the house that you can afford.
0:26:33 > 0:26:36The problem being with that is that
0:26:36 > 0:26:39I have to up sticks and move as well,
0:26:39 > 0:26:43because I can't be leaving myself three hours
0:26:43 > 0:26:46each way on a Friday and a Sunday.
0:26:46 > 0:26:48Three hours there and back?
0:26:48 > 0:26:50Well, it's three hours to get down there, isn't it?
0:26:50 > 0:26:52No, that's if you're stuck in traffic.
0:26:52 > 0:26:55Well, what's the chances of sitting in traffic on a Friday?
0:26:55 > 0:26:56Or a Sunday?
0:26:58 > 0:27:00Probably quite high.
0:27:01 > 0:27:03Past Stonehenge.
0:27:03 > 0:27:05I found a detour.
0:27:05 > 0:27:06Right.
0:27:07 > 0:27:10It needs to be sorted because it's been going on for so long now.
0:27:10 > 0:27:13We've got to cash buy it, ready to move in.
0:27:13 > 0:27:15I've got a house, I'm ready to buy
0:27:15 > 0:27:17and I need a certain figure to be able
0:27:17 > 0:27:20to buy the house outright.
0:27:20 > 0:27:24The difficult part of it is making Alan understand that
0:27:24 > 0:27:27I'm doing it for the kids. I'm not doing it for me.
0:27:35 > 0:27:39Mandy and Peter's discussions about their flat have reached a stalemate.
0:27:41 > 0:27:45Leslie has suggested they try to make progress on one of the issues
0:27:45 > 0:27:47Peter wanted to discuss.
0:27:48 > 0:27:52I'd like to know about his personal effects that he's asking for.
0:27:52 > 0:27:55Is it a watch? There's an Omega watch.
0:27:55 > 0:27:57- Right.- There's a...
0:27:57 > 0:28:01There's a fob watch that Ray bought me before he died.
0:28:01 > 0:28:07- Right.- There's other items like CDs, there's books, there's cassettes.
0:28:07 > 0:28:08Peter, after six years,
0:28:08 > 0:28:11do you think I'd leave a shrine of your stuff there?
0:28:14 > 0:28:17When we got together, I mean, for ten years or so,
0:28:17 > 0:28:18it was a happy atmosphere.
0:28:20 > 0:28:22Things started changing when she was pregnant.
0:28:25 > 0:28:29She became quite obsessed and domineering.
0:28:32 > 0:28:34After Joshua was born, she got worse.
0:28:36 > 0:28:39As time went on, the love was gone.
0:28:40 > 0:28:42I felt I wasn't wanted around.
0:28:42 > 0:28:45I was just a...
0:28:45 > 0:28:47I just was the lodger.
0:28:49 > 0:28:51Don't get me wrong, I'm not jealous.
0:28:51 > 0:28:57But I felt that she just wanted her Josh and her family.
0:28:57 > 0:28:58That is it. End of subject.
0:29:00 > 0:29:01And I had to get out.
0:29:03 > 0:29:05- What about the jewellery? - What jewellery?
0:29:05 > 0:29:07Right. Exactly. Did I leave with any jewellery?
0:29:07 > 0:29:10- You had...- Did I leave with any jewellery?
0:29:10 > 0:29:12Did I leave with any jewellery? That's all I'm asking.
0:29:12 > 0:29:14I'm asking you because you knew where it was.
0:29:14 > 0:29:16- It was not there. - It was in your...
0:29:16 > 0:29:17OK. It was in your jewellery box,
0:29:17 > 0:29:20in the blue jewellery box with a crown on it,
0:29:20 > 0:29:23the Omega watch, which was in the black tin.
0:29:23 > 0:29:25- Yeah. And where is the black tin? - I've got no idea.
0:29:25 > 0:29:29It was in the bottom of the cupboard and I didn't take that.
0:29:29 > 0:29:31- The black tin, you had the key to it.- I didn't.
0:29:31 > 0:29:32Cos it had your personal bits in there.
0:29:32 > 0:29:34That black tin is not there.
0:29:34 > 0:29:36Right. The tin was in the bedroom, in the cupboard.
0:29:36 > 0:29:38I've been waiting for this.
0:29:38 > 0:29:40I've been waiting for this,
0:29:40 > 0:29:42because I knew for a fact she'd say that.
0:29:42 > 0:29:44You were nodding when Peter
0:29:44 > 0:29:47was talking about watches and fobs and things.
0:29:49 > 0:29:50Do you still have those?
0:29:50 > 0:29:53- I do not. I know for a fact he took everything.- That's not true.
0:29:53 > 0:29:57- I haven't got nothing that belongs to him in the house.- Right.
0:29:57 > 0:30:00- So...- Any personal effects that were left, like bits of clothing,
0:30:00 > 0:30:02were thrown years ago.
0:30:02 > 0:30:04The property was left there. She told me I couldn't have it.
0:30:04 > 0:30:07- Well, that's your word against mine, isn't it?- That's it.- And only one of
0:30:07 > 0:30:10us is telling the truth, so if you want to be petty...
0:30:10 > 0:30:12- And it would be you, wouldn't it? - Yeah, well.- Exactly.- OK.
0:30:12 > 0:30:18So, that doesn't feel like there's any progress to be made here.
0:30:18 > 0:30:21- No.- I knew there wouldn't be. - So did I.
0:30:32 > 0:30:34Two months have now passed
0:30:34 > 0:30:37since Richie and Lizzie agreed an initial plan
0:30:37 > 0:30:41that could lead to their son Teddy staying with Richie in London.
0:30:42 > 0:30:44Oh, Liz, I'm not arguing with you, I'm not having this.
0:30:44 > 0:30:48I'm not arguing with people no more and I can't be bothered with this.
0:30:48 > 0:30:51- I'm not arguing with you.- It seems you want arguments.- No, Richie,
0:30:51 > 0:30:54what you're not understanding is I'm not arguing with you.
0:30:54 > 0:30:58- Hello.- Hi.- Hello.- How are you? - Have I interrupted something?
0:30:58 > 0:31:01- Only an argument.- That's what I thought. That was good timing.
0:31:03 > 0:31:05So other than the little tete-a-tete...
0:31:05 > 0:31:06It's been very good.
0:31:06 > 0:31:09- ..how are things?- Yeah. - Things have been really good.
0:31:09 > 0:31:12- Good.- Richie's been down to see Teddy in... Last...
0:31:12 > 0:31:13Or three weeks ago -
0:31:13 > 0:31:16I can't remember how long ago it was now - he came to stay.
0:31:16 > 0:31:18- I went to stay at my mum's, obviously.- Oh, right.
0:31:18 > 0:31:20So I let him come to spend a couple of days with Teddy.
0:31:20 > 0:31:22- Lovely.- And he looked after Teddy in my house...
0:31:22 > 0:31:24- Lovely.- ..on his own with him, so...
0:31:24 > 0:31:27- How was that?- Very good, yeah, brilliant.- Yeah, I can imagine.
0:31:27 > 0:31:29Fantastic. So it sounds as though things are moving
0:31:29 > 0:31:32- in the right direction.- Yes, it is, definitely.- Yeah.
0:31:35 > 0:31:38I've been going down the Isle of Wight
0:31:38 > 0:31:41to see my son and come to an arrangement.
0:31:41 > 0:31:43I go down there four times and this is my fourth time now.
0:31:43 > 0:31:45It's been going well.
0:31:45 > 0:31:48It's been really good, yeah. It's been really good.
0:31:48 > 0:31:51I'm going to mention that today about seeing...
0:31:51 > 0:31:53About having him at the end of October, up in London.
0:31:56 > 0:31:58But, hopefully, she agrees with it.
0:31:58 > 0:32:00I've kept to all the things. I've come down.
0:32:00 > 0:32:04I've accepted everything, so I think it's about time she gave me a little
0:32:04 > 0:32:06bit of leeway, sort of thing.
0:32:07 > 0:32:10So, in terms of stage two,
0:32:10 > 0:32:12what we said was that both of you
0:32:12 > 0:32:15will present some proposals in respect
0:32:15 > 0:32:17of what you think should happen next.
0:32:17 > 0:32:19I don't mind who talks to me first.
0:32:19 > 0:32:22- Neither do I. If Richie wants to go first.- I'll let Liz talk.
0:32:22 > 0:32:25Let Liz talk. I'm fine. Go on, Liz.
0:32:25 > 0:32:31OK. The thing is, I'm looking at it from a completely...
0:32:31 > 0:32:35The perspective I'm looking from is what is practical.
0:32:35 > 0:32:38I need to see consistency with him with Teddy
0:32:38 > 0:32:41and building a proper relationship. At the moment, he's so young,
0:32:41 > 0:32:44I don't want too much disruption for him.
0:32:44 > 0:32:47He doesn't travel really a lot with me anywhere, because when they're
0:32:47 > 0:32:48that sort of age, it is a big upheaval,
0:32:48 > 0:32:50their sleeping patterns and things like that.
0:32:50 > 0:32:53Hold on, Richie. You will get to talk.
0:32:53 > 0:32:55And he knows this is the truth, because I don't.
0:32:55 > 0:32:58I mean, I'm going to my sister's for my birthday.
0:32:58 > 0:33:00I haven't been to see her for I don't know how many months.
0:33:00 > 0:33:03Why can't I have him, then, in London, if you're going to your sister's?
0:33:03 > 0:33:06Right, because it's my birthday and I want my son with me.
0:33:06 > 0:33:08- I'm the main parent. - I'm not talking about that weekend.
0:33:08 > 0:33:11You ain't the main... Whoa, whoa. You ain't the main parent.
0:33:11 > 0:33:13He's half-half. He's my son as much as your son.
0:33:13 > 0:33:16- But he lives with me.- Main parent, I don't agree with that.
0:33:16 > 0:33:18- So let's change the terminology. - You ain't the main parent.
0:33:18 > 0:33:23- Well, I'll be regarded as the main carer.- You're both parents, but you... Yes.- Do you know what?
0:33:23 > 0:33:25I'm done with this, all right? Seriously.
0:33:25 > 0:33:27I'm not doing this, cos this is getting on my...
0:33:27 > 0:33:29Seriously, I've come here and it's just bickering.
0:33:29 > 0:33:31I'm not bickering.
0:33:31 > 0:33:33- I can't deal this, man. - What I'm going to say, Richie,
0:33:33 > 0:33:35is let's just separate you off for a minute.
0:33:35 > 0:33:38- I can't deal with this...- Let's just separate you for a minute.
0:33:38 > 0:33:41Liz, it's the same thing what we done when we're together,
0:33:41 > 0:33:43just bicking heads, and I don't do that no more, love.
0:33:43 > 0:33:46- Come with me.- Neither do I, Richie, and I never have.- I don't do it.
0:33:46 > 0:33:49I thought you had your anger under control, but you clearly haven't.
0:33:49 > 0:33:51Lizzie, if you just wait here for a minute.
0:33:51 > 0:33:54Richie, do you want to just come with me for a minute?
0:33:54 > 0:33:58- Seriously. Anger control... - I'll be back in a tick.- All right.
0:33:58 > 0:34:01- Richie, shall we go in here for a minute?- Yes, please.
0:34:03 > 0:34:06I'm walking out the room, defusing the situation, and she thinks
0:34:06 > 0:34:11I'm getting angry and like the old times, cos I did get angry with her. I ain't going to lie, I did.
0:34:11 > 0:34:13But at the end of the day, I'm not that person no more.
0:34:13 > 0:34:16I haven't been that person for months and that's why I walked out
0:34:16 > 0:34:18the room, cos I'd rather not row with her and she still thinks
0:34:18 > 0:34:20I'm still the same old person and I'm not.
0:34:20 > 0:34:23Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'm easy. I'm not.
0:34:23 > 0:34:25I must admit I can be a bad boyfriend, or husband,
0:34:25 > 0:34:28whatever you want to call it. I'm not saying that.
0:34:33 > 0:34:35- How are you?- I'm fine, Irene.
0:34:35 > 0:34:38I just... You know what? That, I expect.
0:34:38 > 0:34:42That's nothing. That's mild, believe me, because I'm surprised I didn't
0:34:42 > 0:34:46get called every name under the sun. That I can deal with, no problem.
0:34:46 > 0:34:50What Richie needs to understand is I've opened my home to this man,
0:34:50 > 0:34:53who totally doesn't deserve me even doing that.
0:34:55 > 0:34:59A lot of people will say, you know, he's really nice, he's really funny.
0:34:59 > 0:35:03But then, once you get to know him,
0:35:03 > 0:35:06you know, the real him is a completely different person.
0:35:07 > 0:35:09I wanted to help him.
0:35:09 > 0:35:11I wanted to help Richie cos, you know,
0:35:11 > 0:35:15I don't believe everyone is bad and that's it.
0:35:15 > 0:35:19I think people are the way they are for certain reasons and I try to...
0:35:19 > 0:35:22I felt a bit sorry for him and I tried to help him.
0:35:22 > 0:35:25- INTERVIEWER:- Why did you and Richie split up?
0:35:25 > 0:35:27Because of his behaviour.
0:35:28 > 0:35:33Because, you know, there's a lot of things that I won't... Like I say,
0:35:33 > 0:35:36he's not here to defend himself and I won't go into all that,
0:35:36 > 0:35:39but it's mainly because of his behaviour.
0:35:42 > 0:35:46I had a lot of issues in my life from a very young age.
0:35:46 > 0:35:48But I'll be the first to admit that.
0:35:48 > 0:35:50But...I'm changing that.
0:35:52 > 0:35:56I do voluntary work for drug and alcohol recovery up here.
0:35:57 > 0:36:00- INTERVIEWER:- Is that because you had problems in the past like that?
0:36:00 > 0:36:04Mmm. Which I don't want to talk about myself.
0:36:04 > 0:36:07It's not about me, but, yeah, I did have problems with things like that, yeah.
0:36:07 > 0:36:10Yeah. But she thinks I'm always the same person,
0:36:10 > 0:36:12going to be the same person.
0:36:14 > 0:36:16Which, you can't win with someone like that. They're not going to give
0:36:16 > 0:36:20you a little chance to change, then you can't win with someone like that.
0:36:20 > 0:36:22That's what I mean by can't win with her.
0:36:22 > 0:36:25You can't cos she won't let me win. Cos she won't let me change.
0:36:25 > 0:36:27Well, she don't think I'm going to change.
0:36:30 > 0:36:33When Richie proves to me after a little, you know...
0:36:33 > 0:36:38I think it'd take even up to a year of consistently good behaviour
0:36:38 > 0:36:40for me to think, "Actually, I trust him now."
0:36:40 > 0:36:43I'd rather it be solid, built on something solid.
0:36:43 > 0:36:45Come in, Richie. Have a seat.
0:36:47 > 0:36:52So, I've heard both of you on your own and how you feel,
0:36:52 > 0:36:55and you're both so passionate about this little boy, you know,
0:36:55 > 0:36:56- he is so lucky, cos...- He is.
0:36:56 > 0:36:59..he clearly has two parents that love him...
0:36:59 > 0:37:01- Yeah.- ..so very, very much.
0:37:01 > 0:37:06What a lucky little soldier to have you two, but it's now about finding
0:37:06 > 0:37:11- a way of putting some of that passion into a constructive plan for him.- Yeah.
0:37:11 > 0:37:14I'm going to stop you for one minute.
0:37:14 > 0:37:16Richie, let's hear your voice first.
0:37:16 > 0:37:19Yeah. I'm happy going down the Isle of Wight.
0:37:19 > 0:37:21I've got no issues with that.
0:37:21 > 0:37:22But my family miss out.
0:37:22 > 0:37:25I'm not talking about now, I'm talking about the end of next month.
0:37:25 > 0:37:29The end of October. All I want is my boy to be...
0:37:29 > 0:37:32to be with my boy, do you know? Cos Lizzie has her boy.
0:37:32 > 0:37:35I want my boy to be with me, you know what I mean? That's my boy, you know?
0:37:35 > 0:37:38I'm getting upset now, you know what I mean?
0:37:38 > 0:37:41- I don't want you to reply just yet. - No, yes, fine.- I want to write
0:37:41 > 0:37:45some of that down and that will give you time to compose yourself
0:37:45 > 0:37:48- and you time to think about what Richie has just said.- Yeah.
0:37:48 > 0:37:51And Lizzie thinks I'm the old person as well and that's another thing,
0:37:51 > 0:37:54that she thinks I'm still the same Richie when we were together.
0:37:54 > 0:37:57I was an arsehole, admittedly, but I'm not that person no more,
0:37:57 > 0:38:00at the end of the day, seriously. Until she sees that...
0:38:00 > 0:38:03Do you know what I mean? I can't do nothing. I can't win.
0:38:16 > 0:38:18# The sun is out
0:38:18 > 0:38:21# The sky is blue
0:38:21 > 0:38:25# There's not a cloud to spoil the view
0:38:25 > 0:38:27# But it's raining
0:38:29 > 0:38:34# Raining in my heart. #
0:38:43 > 0:38:45I want to see my son.
0:38:45 > 0:38:47That's all this is all about. This is all I've come for.
0:38:47 > 0:38:49I didn't want to talk about property.
0:38:49 > 0:38:51I didn't want to talk about anything else at the moment.
0:38:51 > 0:38:54But the question is, can we make some progress?
0:38:54 > 0:38:57The ball's in her court.
0:38:57 > 0:38:59When we first went through all of this,
0:38:59 > 0:39:01the original decision was that
0:39:01 > 0:39:05he was to have him on a Wednesday afternoon, after school,
0:39:05 > 0:39:10and on a day on the weekend, and he refused, stating that he
0:39:10 > 0:39:15was working on Wednesday and that he worked with chemicals and he was
0:39:15 > 0:39:20unable to get a shower to be able to come and spend some time with Josh.
0:39:20 > 0:39:25He wanted every weekend and there's also, I'm entitled to spend some
0:39:25 > 0:39:29quality time with Josh as well, so I said no to it.
0:39:31 > 0:39:34A woman scorned is a very dangerous thing
0:39:34 > 0:39:37and it is getting that way that...
0:39:37 > 0:39:39OK, she wants me out of her life, OK.
0:39:39 > 0:39:42But she wants me, literally, out of her life, out of Joshua's life.
0:39:44 > 0:39:47Joshua's hers and we had a lot of rows over it.
0:39:50 > 0:39:52I wanted to have fun.
0:39:52 > 0:39:54I wanted to go away camping.
0:39:54 > 0:39:56Me and Joshua on our own.
0:39:56 > 0:39:57I wasn't allowed to.
0:39:57 > 0:40:00I wasn't allowed to do anything like that.
0:40:02 > 0:40:05I mean, my Joshua is the apple of my eye.
0:40:05 > 0:40:07He always was.
0:40:07 > 0:40:09Excuse me.
0:40:09 > 0:40:10Typical this would happen.
0:40:12 > 0:40:14Excuse me.
0:40:15 > 0:40:16Erm...
0:40:19 > 0:40:22I've seen my son once...
0:40:22 > 0:40:23in six years.
0:40:25 > 0:40:27When it comes to the child, I just want to be able...
0:40:27 > 0:40:30- His name's Joshua.- OK.
0:40:30 > 0:40:32When I want to see Joshua,
0:40:32 > 0:40:35what I want Mandy to do is just tell me what to do,
0:40:35 > 0:40:38when to pick him up, when to drop him off - fine.
0:40:38 > 0:40:40Other people manage to do it.
0:40:40 > 0:40:44- Why can't we?- How would you like to sort out Joshua?
0:40:45 > 0:40:47She would like me not to be seeing him.
0:40:47 > 0:40:48Yeah, truthfully.
0:40:48 > 0:40:51I don't want him fluttering in and out of Josh's life.
0:40:51 > 0:40:54He's asked questions.
0:40:54 > 0:40:56As a child, he wanted to know where his dad was.
0:40:56 > 0:40:58I told him that his dad was unhappy, in an unhappy place
0:40:58 > 0:41:00and he's going to find himself,
0:41:00 > 0:41:02and one day, he'll come back and look for him.
0:41:06 > 0:41:11The last time he saw Joshua was in the middle of May 2010.
0:41:11 > 0:41:15He took him out for a little while and brought him back quite late.
0:41:16 > 0:41:19In that time we've been apart,
0:41:19 > 0:41:25Joshua has had two birthday cards and a Christmas card and promises of
0:41:25 > 0:41:27presents were followed, but they never did.
0:41:27 > 0:41:32He doesn't expect anything from his dad now because of it and he doesn't
0:41:32 > 0:41:34hear from him neither, so...
0:41:34 > 0:41:39Where do you think he'd be at with being in touch with his dad?
0:41:39 > 0:41:41That's something you would have to ask Josh,
0:41:41 > 0:41:43because whatever I would say,
0:41:43 > 0:41:46Peter would most probably turn around and say that I've
0:41:46 > 0:41:51brainwashed him, or done something, as you can see.
0:41:51 > 0:41:54But the question is, can we make some progress from here?
0:41:54 > 0:41:57Maybe me seeing Josh?
0:41:57 > 0:41:58Yeah, yeah.
0:41:58 > 0:42:00That would be good.
0:42:00 > 0:42:02Would that work for you, Peter?
0:42:02 > 0:42:05- Fine.- Cos what I'd probably do is say, you know,
0:42:05 > 0:42:09"Your mum and dad both love you and they would really like to hear what you think."
0:42:09 > 0:42:12So, what if he said he was angry with you, Peter,
0:42:12 > 0:42:13and didn't want to see you?
0:42:13 > 0:42:15We'll cross that bridge when we get there.
0:42:15 > 0:42:19OK. I mean, that would clearly be a very hard thing to hear.
0:42:19 > 0:42:20Of course it would.
0:42:32 > 0:42:37Alan and Yvonne's progress depends on just one decision -
0:42:37 > 0:42:39how much money Yvonne will get.
0:42:41 > 0:42:45Who would like to present their proposals first?
0:42:54 > 0:42:56Have you got a proposal that you'd like to present?
0:42:58 > 0:43:05I would like, from the sale of the house, 205.
0:43:05 > 0:43:09So you're proposing that the family home is sold and the equity that you
0:43:09 > 0:43:13- receive from that, you would like to take 205,000.- Mm-hm.
0:43:17 > 0:43:22Selling their family home will give Alan and Yvonne over £300,000
0:43:22 > 0:43:26to divide, but they bought it using £200,000
0:43:26 > 0:43:29that Alan had saved before they met.
0:43:29 > 0:43:32Yvonne never brought anything to the party
0:43:32 > 0:43:36in terms of finance, house, whatever.
0:43:37 > 0:43:42I strived over years to earn money to build up a fund of some sort
0:43:42 > 0:43:44and then someone determines that
0:43:44 > 0:43:47they're going to take more than half of that away from you.
0:43:51 > 0:43:52Is that fair?
0:43:54 > 0:43:57I had you down as 195.
0:43:57 > 0:43:59Now, you've gone up ten grand.
0:43:59 > 0:44:02Yeah. To keep myself afloat if I don't find a job.
0:44:02 > 0:44:05- All right.- That's all I want. I don't want anything else.
0:44:05 > 0:44:07I don't want to dip into your pension,
0:44:07 > 0:44:09- your life or anything like that.- There's no pension!
0:44:09 > 0:44:11Well, there you go, then. Lucky you.
0:44:11 > 0:44:13Lucky...? What do you mean, lucky me?
0:44:13 > 0:44:17Yvonne, my pension was based around the house.
0:44:17 > 0:44:19The house was going to be our financial security
0:44:19 > 0:44:22for when we sold it and downsized later on in life.
0:44:24 > 0:44:26Right?
0:44:26 > 0:44:29So, you don't want my pension,
0:44:29 > 0:44:31you're taking that pension.
0:44:37 > 0:44:40I never wanted to be a stay-at-home mum.
0:44:40 > 0:44:42Our life stops as soon as we're pregnant.
0:44:43 > 0:44:45The guy's life continues.
0:44:45 > 0:44:48They don't understand what we do at home.
0:44:49 > 0:44:52I suppose, over time, I just got fed up with the fact that I didn't feel
0:44:52 > 0:44:56appreciated, so then I just started either ignoring him, or...
0:44:56 > 0:44:59not talking to him properly or, you know...
0:44:59 > 0:45:01Stuff I shouldn't have done.
0:45:02 > 0:45:05He doesn't want to give me everything that he's got, which is fair enough.
0:45:05 > 0:45:08But I need to be able to have a certain amount of money
0:45:08 > 0:45:10to buy the house outright,
0:45:10 > 0:45:14and to survive on until I get myself sorted down there.
0:45:16 > 0:45:18If you went for 50-50,
0:45:18 > 0:45:23you'd be looking at 168,000, 170,000.
0:45:23 > 0:45:24- All right?- Yeah.
0:45:24 > 0:45:26That you've put nothing into.
0:45:26 > 0:45:29All the money for the house in the first place
0:45:29 > 0:45:35has come from me, prior to getting together, etc.
0:45:35 > 0:45:37And haven't I said from the start of all this
0:45:37 > 0:45:40that I'm sorry you're going to lose the house?
0:45:40 > 0:45:43If I could walk away without having you lose the house
0:45:43 > 0:45:45then I would, but we've had kids.
0:45:45 > 0:45:47Yes, we've had kids.
0:45:47 > 0:45:48And so when we were happily married,
0:45:48 > 0:45:51what's yours was mine and what's mine was yours,
0:45:51 > 0:45:52but now we're unhappily married,
0:45:52 > 0:45:55it's gone to what's yours is yours and what's mine is...
0:45:55 > 0:45:56- Not totally.- Yeah.
0:45:56 > 0:46:00- Anyway.- Not totally, because if you look at the...
0:46:00 > 0:46:04- the 50% of that anyway.- You should be thinking about your children.
0:46:04 > 0:46:06I am thinking about the children.
0:46:16 > 0:46:19If I may say one thing, I think that I've already...
0:46:23 > 0:46:25..over-compromised really, because I've allowed Richie...
0:46:25 > 0:46:28- Yeah, but...- Can I speak? - Sorry, sorry, yeah.
0:46:28 > 0:46:31I want consistency for a good while before I think, yeah, OK, he really,
0:46:31 > 0:46:34really means it. And I don't think I'm unreasonable in asking for that.
0:46:34 > 0:46:36I don't think... I honestly, honestly...
0:46:36 > 0:46:38So let me stop you. Lizzie, are going to let Richie speak?
0:46:38 > 0:46:41- Yeah, of course, sorry, yeah. Apologies.- Your turn.
0:46:41 > 0:46:44Do you know what? I've said what I wanted to say,
0:46:44 > 0:46:45to be honest with you, and that's it. I can't,
0:46:45 > 0:46:48I don't want to keep doing this, if I'm going to be honest.
0:46:48 > 0:46:50And I just think it's so unfair. It's so unfair.
0:46:50 > 0:46:53You think it's unfair. I think other things are unfair,
0:46:53 > 0:46:56all right? And because you're not getting your own way,
0:46:56 > 0:46:58this is what happens. If it was me...
0:46:58 > 0:47:00Do you know what? I ain't coming on weekends.
0:47:00 > 0:47:02So I'm not coming down to the Isle of Wight.
0:47:02 > 0:47:04- OK, that's your choice.- But you're making it hard for me, Liz.
0:47:04 > 0:47:07- You're making it so hard for me. - Let me stop you both for a minute.
0:47:07 > 0:47:09- I'm not, I'm making it very easy. - You are.
0:47:09 > 0:47:12- Let me stop you both for a minute. - You're making it hard for me, Liz.
0:47:12 > 0:47:14You've both said what you want,
0:47:14 > 0:47:16and what you want is very different,
0:47:16 > 0:47:21but for both of you, is there any compromising to be done?
0:47:21 > 0:47:24If I was to go to London, I would quite happily let Richie
0:47:24 > 0:47:27have Teddy for the day or however long I was there for,
0:47:27 > 0:47:30- and then take him back with me. - OK. So that is making an offer,
0:47:30 > 0:47:33doing something different to what you've already said.
0:47:34 > 0:47:36It's not what you want, Richie,
0:47:36 > 0:47:40but it's something else that's on the table.
0:47:41 > 0:47:43Yeah, that's fine. That would be fine. Great.
0:47:43 > 0:47:45So, you would be happy to accept that?
0:47:45 > 0:47:49Yeah, for four hours, yeah, I accept having him for four hours, yeah.
0:47:49 > 0:47:50Definitely. Definitely.
0:47:50 > 0:47:53- It's called consequences of actions. - When we was together, we said...
0:47:53 > 0:47:55- Unfortunately. Consequences of actions.- ..that's the past.
0:47:55 > 0:47:58Yeah, but this is the consequence, isn't it, of it?
0:47:58 > 0:48:00You're putting a block on my family seeing him.
0:48:00 > 0:48:02- No, I'm concerned about Ted's welfare.- His welfare?
0:48:02 > 0:48:04You know what? Seriously, that is me done here.
0:48:04 > 0:48:05Forget about your family.
0:48:05 > 0:48:07- Sorry, I'm done here. - Why are you going?- I'm done.
0:48:07 > 0:48:10- It's building a relationship with you and Ted.- I am done.
0:48:10 > 0:48:15- I am done.- That's a shame, because I bought him a nice book called My Daddy. What a shame.
0:48:15 > 0:48:16Well, I'm done, Liz. I can't...
0:48:16 > 0:48:19Yeah, because yet again you think it's about your family.
0:48:19 > 0:48:22- OK.- It is not about my family. - You just sat there and said it.
0:48:22 > 0:48:25OK, so, if you're done, let's just leave again.
0:48:28 > 0:48:31I'll explain that to Ted, shall I?
0:48:31 > 0:48:33This is why I'm doing what I'm doing, Richie.
0:48:33 > 0:48:34Cos your true colours.
0:48:35 > 0:48:38A leopard don't change his spots, yeah?
0:48:38 > 0:48:39Surely you can see that.
0:48:39 > 0:48:41You can see that, can't you?
0:48:45 > 0:48:47No, you're not being unreasonable.
0:48:47 > 0:48:50But what are you going to do?
0:48:50 > 0:48:51Are you going to go to court?
0:48:51 > 0:48:54What are you going to do to get to see your son?
0:48:58 > 0:49:02I don't want you to walk out of here
0:49:02 > 0:49:05with the passion that you've got
0:49:05 > 0:49:07and then not be able to see your son.
0:49:07 > 0:49:09What's the sense in that?
0:49:19 > 0:49:21He is trying to change his life, and I applaud him.
0:49:21 > 0:49:24I applaud anyone who tries to change their life.
0:49:24 > 0:49:28But you have to actually change. You can't just say it.
0:49:28 > 0:49:30You can't just do it for three weeks.
0:49:30 > 0:49:33It's got to be forever. And mean it.
0:49:35 > 0:49:39Cos the old Richie's still there. I just saw it not two minutes ago.
0:49:47 > 0:49:49# One can wish upon a star
0:49:49 > 0:49:53# Two can make that wish come true, yeah
0:49:53 > 0:49:56# One can stand alone in the dark
0:49:56 > 0:49:58# Two can make the light shine through
0:49:58 > 0:50:02# It takes two, baby
0:50:02 > 0:50:05# It takes two, baby
0:50:05 > 0:50:06# Me and you
0:50:08 > 0:50:10# Just takes two. #
0:50:12 > 0:50:16Alan and Yvonne were hoping to complete their mediation today.
0:50:16 > 0:50:18But their session is nearly over.
0:50:20 > 0:50:26You're not a million miles away from reaching an agreement now.
0:50:26 > 0:50:28Could Yvonne have that figure
0:50:28 > 0:50:32or does that figure still need to change?
0:50:32 > 0:50:33You got 205...
0:50:35 > 0:50:41..so why has that 195 gone up to 205?
0:50:41 > 0:50:42The house was 185.
0:50:42 > 0:50:45- Yeah.- Fees for the solicitor.- Mmm.
0:50:45 > 0:50:47So, wasn't that, like, ten grand?
0:50:47 > 0:50:51And then, if I don't get a job when I'm down there straightaway,
0:50:51 > 0:50:53what's going to pay the bills?
0:50:55 > 0:50:57It's finding that balance.
0:50:57 > 0:51:00Maybe I am going in there asking for too much.
0:51:00 > 0:51:02Maybe I'm going in there asking too less, who knows?
0:51:07 > 0:51:11If I moved into the house and something bad happens...
0:51:12 > 0:51:15..you know, the washing machine breaks down,
0:51:15 > 0:51:18I don't know, the roof leaks.
0:51:22 > 0:51:25I'm not going to go out there and spend it on absolutely nothing.
0:51:31 > 0:51:33Do I force the issue so much
0:51:33 > 0:51:38that she's scraping together pennies to look after and bring up the kids?
0:51:40 > 0:51:42But you've got to look at...
0:51:43 > 0:51:45..the wellbeing of your kids
0:51:45 > 0:51:47and the area your kids are growing up in.
0:51:49 > 0:51:50I don't want my kids to suffer.
0:51:54 > 0:51:57Do you need time to go away and think about this
0:51:57 > 0:52:01rather than being asked to make a decision about it now?
0:52:02 > 0:52:04If we're going to end up settling on 205...
0:52:06 > 0:52:08..we're going to end up settling on 205.
0:52:17 > 0:52:20If that's what it's going to end up being,
0:52:20 > 0:52:21that's what it's going to end up being.
0:52:25 > 0:52:26OK, good. So, what I'll do, then,
0:52:26 > 0:52:30is just record the discussion that we've had today
0:52:30 > 0:52:32and then send it out to you, and then if there's anything
0:52:32 > 0:52:35that you both feel needs adding to that,
0:52:35 > 0:52:39or any further discussion that you feel needs to be had,
0:52:39 > 0:52:40we can do that.
0:52:40 > 0:52:44But I do think you need to take some advice before we finalise things.
0:52:45 > 0:52:48- Yep.- Is that all right for both of you?- Mm-hmm.- Mm-hmm.
0:52:52 > 0:52:55Success in mediation doesn't look the same for everyone.
0:52:55 > 0:52:57Thanks, Yvonne, take care now.
0:52:57 > 0:52:58For some people,
0:52:58 > 0:53:01it's a written agreement to take to their solicitors
0:53:01 > 0:53:03and then have made legally binding.
0:53:03 > 0:53:07Thanks, Alan, you take care now. Goodbye.
0:53:07 > 0:53:10For others, I think just starting to listen to each other
0:53:10 > 0:53:12is an achievement in itself.
0:53:15 > 0:53:17Five months after they started mediation,
0:53:17 > 0:53:19Lizzie and Richie returned
0:53:19 > 0:53:23to see if they could find a way to repair relations.
0:53:23 > 0:53:26Is there any value in you both sitting in a room together
0:53:26 > 0:53:28to talk about this?
0:53:28 > 0:53:29Well, if she wants to.
0:53:29 > 0:53:33What I need from both of you is to allow each other to speak...
0:53:33 > 0:53:36- Yeah, course. - ..and not to interrupt.- Yeah.
0:53:36 > 0:53:40- And I will ensure that you have the opportunity to respond.- Yeah.
0:53:43 > 0:53:44Why can't you come to London?
0:53:44 > 0:53:47- So, we're going to stop.- Why should a two-year-old child have to travel?
0:53:47 > 0:53:50Why can't you - you - travel instead of making Teddy get up...?
0:53:50 > 0:53:52Like you don't stay at your Uncle Larry's. Come on, love.
0:53:52 > 0:53:55- I don't go to London.- OK.- I'm the one who started this process.
0:53:55 > 0:53:57- It's always on your terms, Liz. - Because you're erratic.
0:53:57 > 0:54:00- Who's erratic? You're erratic. - You let him down.- You're a nut job.
0:54:00 > 0:54:02- Why am I a nut job?- Let's try...
0:54:02 > 0:54:05But you're not... There's no consistency in your behaviour.
0:54:05 > 0:54:09This was Lizzie and Richie's last mediation meeting.
0:54:09 > 0:54:12In the five months that followed,
0:54:12 > 0:54:15Richie visited Teddy on the Isle of Wight once.
0:54:15 > 0:54:18Teddy didn't go to stay with him in London.
0:54:23 > 0:54:28Peter is still waiting to hear whether Josh would like to see him.
0:54:29 > 0:54:31They're going to find out if Joshua wants to see me.
0:54:32 > 0:54:34You don't know how hard I'm praying.
0:54:37 > 0:54:41If Joshua doesn't want to see me again, it will bloody hurt.
0:54:44 > 0:54:47Mandy still hasn't convinced Peter
0:54:47 > 0:54:51to hand over his share of their flat.
0:54:51 > 0:54:52It's still my home,
0:54:52 > 0:54:56why should I be giving him anything that I feel he's not entitled to?
0:54:56 > 0:54:58If he knows me from old, he knows
0:54:58 > 0:55:03I'll put my heels down and I will fight.
0:55:03 > 0:55:04I will fight.
0:55:08 > 0:55:11The deal Alan and Yvonne reached in mediation
0:55:11 > 0:55:14was finalised and they will soon be divorced.
0:55:15 > 0:55:17Obviously, from my point of view, it wasn't perfect.
0:55:18 > 0:55:20It's not ideal financially but...
0:55:22 > 0:55:28..it's a way, then, to move forward in a more harmonious way,
0:55:28 > 0:55:31so that, ultimately, you can see the kids.
0:55:31 > 0:55:33To me, it is fair.
0:55:33 > 0:55:35To me, I'm happy with what I got.
0:55:35 > 0:55:37I could've come out with a lot more but...
0:55:37 > 0:55:40If I'd pushed for it, you know, but I didn't want to.
0:55:40 > 0:55:43That's it, Lewis, nearly squashed you!
0:55:43 > 0:55:46In the end, Yvonne and the children didn't move to Somerset.
0:55:46 > 0:55:49Ah! My bed, get off!
0:55:49 > 0:55:53Instead, they've been renting close to their former home.
0:55:53 > 0:55:55This is the headboard, isn't it?
0:55:55 > 0:55:56Which side do you want the headboard on?
0:55:56 > 0:55:59It's got to a point where I was just like I can't do it
0:55:59 > 0:56:02because I don't know who I'm doing it for
0:56:02 > 0:56:05and I don't think it would agree with the kids.
0:56:05 > 0:56:07I think the kids would suffer an awful lot.
0:56:07 > 0:56:09There you go!
0:56:09 > 0:56:11So when it came to me changing my mind,
0:56:11 > 0:56:14I think they were probably really happy about that
0:56:14 > 0:56:17cos they'd still be at their school and they'd see Daddy more often.
0:56:19 > 0:56:23It's now 12 months since their mediation finished
0:56:23 > 0:56:26and Yvonne and the children are moving house once again.
0:56:26 > 0:56:29- I've met someone.- Keep going all the way. Keep your finger on it,
0:56:29 > 0:56:31otherwise it's going to drain the battery.
0:56:31 > 0:56:35I said to my kids that, "Tim wants to be my boyfriend. What do you think about that?"
0:56:35 > 0:56:37I just hope it's... Where's the bottom bit?
0:56:37 > 0:56:40'They're like, "Yeah, no, all right, then, Mum. Tim's a nice man.
0:56:40 > 0:56:41'"We'll let you." And stuff.'
0:56:41 > 0:56:44I can't trust you with any of this stuff.
0:56:44 > 0:56:46I won't lie. There's a little bit...
0:56:46 > 0:56:48that told me to stick around for him, as well.
0:56:50 > 0:56:53We're now a couple. We're buying a house together.
0:56:54 > 0:56:57Tim's got some money saved up
0:56:57 > 0:56:59and, obviously, I've got my money from the house.
0:57:01 > 0:57:03It's all working out slowly, nicely.
0:57:03 > 0:57:04Unexpectedly.
0:57:05 > 0:57:07I ended up, erm...
0:57:07 > 0:57:12moving down to my parents' house on the coast.
0:57:14 > 0:57:16Who's that?
0:57:16 > 0:57:18But I'm only an hour away.
0:57:18 > 0:57:20So, after work, I can go and see the kids.
0:57:23 > 0:57:25How's school?
0:57:25 > 0:57:27All r-r-right!
0:57:27 > 0:57:29Give us a kiss.
0:57:29 > 0:57:30M-wah!
0:57:30 > 0:57:32I shall see you.
0:57:33 > 0:57:37- You need to talk to them tomorrow at football.- All right.
0:57:37 > 0:57:40'Being pragmatic and looking at the whole bigger picture,
0:57:40 > 0:57:44'perhaps that extra money has made her be more acceptable
0:57:44 > 0:57:46'to me having the kids more of the time.'
0:57:46 > 0:57:48THEY LAUGH
0:57:48 > 0:57:49One, two, three, in you go.
0:57:51 > 0:57:52Is life all about money?
0:58:03 > 0:58:06- You can't punish me, which is what you're doing... - I'm not punishing you!
0:58:06 > 0:58:08..because it's a personal vendetta.
0:58:08 > 0:58:09- No, I don't...- I will stick by that.
0:58:09 > 0:58:12- It's a personal vendetta. - I don't care what you do.
0:58:12 > 0:58:14There are options that benefit everybody here
0:58:14 > 0:58:16but you haven't explored them.
0:58:16 > 0:58:21I cannot see any better option than going back to Portugal.
0:58:21 > 0:58:25I want my money. I'm not just having that. You've got more than me.
0:58:25 > 0:58:28- What am I getting, Robina? - The house.
0:58:28 > 0:58:29MUSIC: Knowing Me, Knowing You by Abba
0:58:29 > 0:58:32- # Knowing me, knowing you - A-ha
0:58:32 > 0:58:34# There is nothing we can do
0:58:34 > 0:58:38- # Knowing me, knowing you - A-ha
0:58:38 > 0:58:41# We just have to face it, this time we're through
0:58:41 > 0:58:44# This time we're through, this time we're through
0:58:44 > 0:58:46# This time we're through, we're really through
0:58:46 > 0:58:50# Breaking up is never easy, I know but I have to go
0:58:50 > 0:58:54# I have to go this time I have to go, this time I know
0:58:54 > 0:58:55# Knowing me, knowing you
0:58:55 > 0:58:58# It's the best I can do. #