Spike Lee

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0:00:03 > 0:00:05Let's go!

0:00:06 > 0:00:11Spike Lee is one of America's most controversial film directors.

0:00:11 > 0:00:14He was born in Atlanta, Georgia, in 1957,

0:00:14 > 0:00:17but grew up in Brooklyn, New York.

0:00:17 > 0:00:21I've always been interested in genealogy.

0:00:21 > 0:00:26I know that my ancestors were stolen from the Motherland, Africa.

0:00:28 > 0:00:31America still hasn't dealt with slavery.

0:00:35 > 0:00:39I don't think people understand that 1865...

0:00:39 > 0:00:41That's not that long ago.

0:00:41 > 0:00:44So I'm only four generations removed from slavery.

0:00:44 > 0:00:47Not a long time at all.

0:00:47 > 0:00:51I would like to know all my ancestors.

0:00:51 > 0:00:53Who was Massa?

0:00:54 > 0:00:57I just hope it's not George Bush!

0:00:57 > 0:00:59HE LAUGHS

0:01:19 > 0:01:24Spike Lee first shot to fame in 1986 with his ground-breaking film,

0:01:24 > 0:01:25She's Gotta Have It.

0:01:27 > 0:01:32Not only the writer-director, Spike also starred as the motor-mouthed Mars Blackmon.

0:01:34 > 0:01:39The success of this film enabled him to set up his production company,

0:01:39 > 0:01:4240 Acres & A Mule Filmworks.

0:01:43 > 0:01:47He's also a passionate chronicler of African-American experiences in film,

0:01:47 > 0:01:51with movies like Do The Right Thing,

0:01:51 > 0:01:53Malcolm X

0:01:53 > 0:01:55and Miracle At St Anna.

0:01:55 > 0:01:59But for all the attention he brings to African-American history,

0:01:59 > 0:02:04Spike knows very little about the ancestry of his mother, Jacquelyn Shelton Lee.

0:02:06 > 0:02:08We know everything about my father's side.

0:02:08 > 0:02:12But my mother's is a lot less known.

0:02:12 > 0:02:16It was during my sophomore year my mother died of cancer.

0:02:18 > 0:02:22One day, didn't feel well. She went in the hospital.

0:02:22 > 0:02:24Then she was dead, like, two weeks later.

0:02:25 > 0:02:27It was a devastating blow.

0:02:27 > 0:02:30I don't think the family really healed after that.

0:02:33 > 0:02:38Today I'm taking my wife Tonya, and my kids Satchel and Jackson to her final resting place

0:02:38 > 0:02:41so we can pay our respects as I begin this journey

0:02:41 > 0:02:42into my mother's history.

0:02:50 > 0:02:56Basically, I wouldn't have been who I am now if my mother had not, you know, gone.

0:02:56 > 0:02:59It was like a sacrifice or something, you know.

0:02:59 > 0:03:01I don't know if that makes sense,

0:03:01 > 0:03:04but that's the way I feel, because when she died, I still hadn't...

0:03:04 > 0:03:06I still had not even decided I wanted to be a filmmaker.

0:03:06 > 0:03:08Everybody grab a rock.

0:03:10 > 0:03:12She was always on our ass,

0:03:12 > 0:03:15"You have to do better. You have to do better."

0:03:15 > 0:03:19It was like, "Give us a break." So my drive...

0:03:19 > 0:03:22I get from my mother.

0:03:25 > 0:03:28My mother died when I was 19 years old,

0:03:28 > 0:03:31and my grandmother, Zimmie Retha Shelton,

0:03:31 > 0:03:35became the most important person in my life.

0:03:35 > 0:03:37My grandmother put me through Morehouse College

0:03:37 > 0:03:40and NYU Graduate Film School.

0:03:40 > 0:03:42And she gave me the seed money for She's Gotta Have It,

0:03:42 > 0:03:46my first feature film. She was a great woman.

0:03:46 > 0:03:51"Mama," as we called her, died in 2006.

0:03:51 > 0:03:53She was 100 years old.

0:03:53 > 0:03:59And I had squandered many opportunities

0:03:59 > 0:04:03to ask her what she knew about her family.

0:04:03 > 0:04:04The legacy of her family.

0:04:04 > 0:04:10So I want to find my ancestors going back,

0:04:10 > 0:04:14way back to slavery... on my mother's side.

0:04:14 > 0:04:20So I have to start with my grandmother, Zimmie Retha Shelton.

0:04:24 > 0:04:27Spike's beginning his search in Atlanta, Georgia,

0:04:27 > 0:04:29his grandmother Zimmie's hometown.

0:04:34 > 0:04:37Zimmie was educated here at Spelman College in the 1920s

0:04:37 > 0:04:41when it was unusual for a black woman to get a university education.

0:04:42 > 0:04:46Spelman was founded just 16 years after Emancipation

0:04:46 > 0:04:50and is America's oldest black college for women.

0:04:53 > 0:04:57Spike's come to meet Peggy Dow, one of Zimmie's oldest friends.

0:04:59 > 0:05:04- When you had She's Gotta Have It, remember that?- The first film.

0:05:04 > 0:05:06- The first film.- Right.

0:05:06 > 0:05:09She wanted to go see it and she didn't want to go by herself.

0:05:09 > 0:05:11And I said, "Oh, I'll take you."

0:05:11 > 0:05:14- HE LAUGHS - We got dressed.

0:05:14 > 0:05:16We got there, we were all excited.

0:05:16 > 0:05:18And the picture started.

0:05:18 > 0:05:24Now, Spike, I'm going to tell you that your grandmother, she wasn't prepared to see what she saw.

0:05:24 > 0:05:25Naked people?

0:05:25 > 0:05:28- And not only that... - Butt naked, right?

0:05:28 > 0:05:32The scene where you were in the bed with your sneakers on!

0:05:32 > 0:05:34I couldn't get over that!

0:05:34 > 0:05:39But, anyway, she was so shocked and so surprised about a lot of things in that film

0:05:39 > 0:05:41that happened.

0:05:41 > 0:05:44Well the picture was over and we went to leave.

0:05:44 > 0:05:48There waiting outside the theatre was the press.

0:05:48 > 0:05:52She says, "Oh, it was fine. It was fine."

0:05:52 > 0:05:57But let me tell you, after the press had left and we'd left them and got to the car, she says,

0:05:57 > 0:05:59"Wait till I see Spike!

0:05:59 > 0:06:01"I'm going to tell him about that!"

0:06:01 > 0:06:03But she was proud of you.

0:06:03 > 0:06:05Thank you.

0:06:06 > 0:06:09After graduating from Spelman,

0:06:09 > 0:06:13Spike's grandmother settled in Atlanta.

0:06:13 > 0:06:17Living in the segregated South during the '50s and '60s,

0:06:17 > 0:06:21she witnessed some of the country's worst racial unrest.

0:06:22 > 0:06:25My grandmother lived in this house.

0:06:25 > 0:06:27We haven't had the heart to sell it yet.

0:06:29 > 0:06:32Inside, it is exactly as she left it.

0:06:34 > 0:06:38My sister Joie has come down from Brooklyn to see if there is anything here

0:06:38 > 0:06:41to help us get back to our slave origins.

0:06:41 > 0:06:45Well, I have something to show you that I've found.

0:06:45 > 0:06:48- What's that?- We have here...

0:06:49 > 0:06:50Mrs Zimmie Retha.

0:06:50 > 0:06:52- What is this?- This is her death certificate.

0:06:57 > 0:07:00Her father's name is Phillip Jackson.

0:07:00 > 0:07:05Her mother's name was Jessie Anna Roseer.

0:07:05 > 0:07:07And there they are.

0:07:07 > 0:07:09This is Phillip Jackson?

0:07:10 > 0:07:11He's a distinguished guy.

0:07:11 > 0:07:14He really is, he's a distinguished-looking gentleman.

0:07:14 > 0:07:16This is Mamma's grandmother.

0:07:16 > 0:07:17- Lucinda.- Jackson.

0:07:17 > 0:07:21- She was a slave.- Born a slave?

0:07:21 > 0:07:22She was born a slave.

0:07:22 > 0:07:26She looks like she has some Native American features in her.

0:07:27 > 0:07:31- She was definitely born a slave? - She was definitely born a slave.

0:07:34 > 0:07:38Mamma was very close with... She called her granny.

0:07:38 > 0:07:43- Granny would tell Mamma stories all the time and everywhere. - An oral tradition.- Yeah.

0:07:43 > 0:07:48An oral history. So, Granny told Mamma that when she was little

0:07:48 > 0:07:51she remembers all the slave children would be sitting around

0:07:51 > 0:07:56and they would bring out their slop in a trough.

0:07:56 > 0:07:59- Like pigs have a slop thing?- Yeah.

0:07:59 > 0:08:01Eating out of a trough.

0:08:01 > 0:08:06So Granny didn't want to eat that way so she'd go around and she'd bop each kid in the head

0:08:06 > 0:08:08with her wooden spoon.

0:08:08 > 0:08:12And all the kids would be like, "Lucinda hit me! Lucinda hit me!"

0:08:12 > 0:08:13HE LAUGHS

0:08:13 > 0:08:18Then the master would come out.

0:08:18 > 0:08:20- What was the master's name? - I don't know.

0:08:22 > 0:08:28Spike now knows that his grandmother Zimmie Retha's father was called Phillip Jackson.

0:08:29 > 0:08:34And his mother was Lucinda Jackson, Spike's great-great grandmother.

0:08:35 > 0:08:38We've always known that my grandmother Zimmie's family

0:08:38 > 0:08:41came from the city of Dublin, in Laurens County, Georgia.

0:08:41 > 0:08:44So I'm going there to see if I can find out more

0:08:44 > 0:08:47about her grandmother Lucinda, who was born into slavery.

0:08:50 > 0:08:53If I could find Lucinda's death records,

0:08:53 > 0:08:57it might tell me more about her life.

0:08:57 > 0:09:02'Melvin Collier is an expert in African-American genealogy.

0:09:02 > 0:09:06'He's helping me search the records at the Laurens County library.'

0:09:06 > 0:09:09I need to find out the year that Lucinda died.

0:09:09 > 0:09:11How we going to do that?

0:09:11 > 0:09:15OK, we'll look at the Georgia death records, and go from there.

0:09:15 > 0:09:20Put in "Lucinda Jackson".

0:09:20 > 0:09:22See what we find.

0:09:24 > 0:09:26We have several Lucinda Jacksons.

0:09:26 > 0:09:29Let's see if we find one from Laurens County.

0:09:29 > 0:09:32- There it is.- There it is.

0:09:32 > 0:09:34We have a death date.

0:09:34 > 0:09:38May 13, 1934.

0:09:38 > 0:09:39Since we have a death date,

0:09:39 > 0:09:42let's see if we can find an obituary for her.

0:09:42 > 0:09:44Melvin and I are going through old Dublin newspapers

0:09:44 > 0:09:48from around the time of Lucinda's death.

0:09:48 > 0:09:52They put black people in the obituary, though?

0:09:52 > 0:09:55It wasn't often, but sometimes, you know,

0:09:55 > 0:09:57people may, you know, get lucky

0:09:57 > 0:09:59and find their ancestor in the newspaper.

0:09:59 > 0:10:01OK, hold on. Stop, stop.

0:10:01 > 0:10:03I saw something.

0:10:04 > 0:10:08May 13, 1934.

0:10:08 > 0:10:12- There it is!- There it is.

0:10:12 > 0:10:15"The Passing of Mrs Lucinda Jackson."

0:10:15 > 0:10:19My great-great-grandmother.

0:10:19 > 0:10:23"The many friends of Mrs Lucinda Jackson regret to learn of her death.

0:10:23 > 0:10:30"Mrs Jackson departed this life after a lingering illness, Sunday morning of May 13th.

0:10:30 > 0:10:34"Mrs Jackson survived by three sons."

0:10:34 > 0:10:36Three! Oh!

0:10:36 > 0:10:38Oh, she had three sons.

0:10:38 > 0:10:40- Wow.- "Isaac Jackson,

0:10:40 > 0:10:42"Phillip Jackson of the city,

0:10:42 > 0:10:45"and Wilson Jackson of Jeffersonville."

0:10:45 > 0:10:49You know, this would be considered a genealogical goldmine

0:10:49 > 0:10:53to find your great-great grandmother

0:10:53 > 0:10:58who was once enslaved, now she has an obituary in the paper.

0:10:58 > 0:11:05And another thing, you notice... they gave her respect. Mrs Lucinda Jackson.

0:11:05 > 0:11:07Along with his great-grandfather Phillip,

0:11:07 > 0:11:10Spike now knows Lucinda had two more sons,

0:11:10 > 0:11:12Isaac and Wilson.

0:11:12 > 0:11:17But there's no mention of their father in Lucinda's obituary.

0:11:17 > 0:11:20So who was Mr Jackson?

0:11:20 > 0:11:23Well, maybe if we can look up the death certificate

0:11:23 > 0:11:27for Phil Jackson, we'll find who was the father.

0:11:34 > 0:11:37His father's name was Mars.

0:11:37 > 0:11:40That's familiar.

0:11:42 > 0:11:45Mars lives. HE CHUCKLES

0:11:45 > 0:11:48Isn't that amazing?

0:11:48 > 0:11:52When I was writing the script for She's Gotta Have It,

0:11:52 > 0:11:57I was stuck for the name of a character.

0:11:57 > 0:12:01And I called my grandmother up, and I said, "I need a name."

0:12:01 > 0:12:04And she came with this "Mars."

0:12:04 > 0:12:06I remember vaguely her saying

0:12:06 > 0:12:08she had a crazy uncle named Mars.

0:12:08 > 0:12:14But she probably said she had a crazy grandfather named Mars.

0:12:14 > 0:12:19And it fit, because Mars, in the film, is crazy.

0:12:19 > 0:12:21That's insane.

0:12:21 > 0:12:25My great-great-grandfather's name was Mars.

0:12:25 > 0:12:30So if Lucinda was born a slave,

0:12:30 > 0:12:34definitely Mars was born...

0:12:34 > 0:12:36a slave.

0:12:40 > 0:12:43Both Spike's great-great grandparents, Mars and Lucinda,

0:12:43 > 0:12:46were born into slavery.

0:12:46 > 0:12:49Throughout the 17th and 18th centuries,

0:12:49 > 0:12:53slaves were brought to North America from both the West Indies and Africa.

0:12:54 > 0:13:00But after 250 years, the northern states called for slavery to be abolished.

0:13:00 > 0:13:05Years of intense debate over slavery, liberty and states' rights

0:13:05 > 0:13:09led to the outbreak of the American Civil War in 1861.

0:13:09 > 0:13:12The battle between the North and the South of the country

0:13:12 > 0:13:16proved to be one of the bloodiest conflicts in American history,

0:13:16 > 0:13:22lasting four years until the surrender of the Southern Confederates in April, 1865.

0:13:25 > 0:13:29Spike is heading to the Georgia State Archives, just south of Atlanta

0:13:29 > 0:13:33on the trail of his great-great grandfather Mars Jackson.

0:13:33 > 0:13:35He's meeting historian Mark Schultz.

0:13:35 > 0:13:38I got to find my great-great-grandfather Mars Jackson.

0:13:38 > 0:13:41- He was born a slave. - All right.

0:13:41 > 0:13:43I want to know who owned him.

0:13:43 > 0:13:48OK, I'll work through the census manuscript.

0:13:48 > 0:13:50Mars Jackson.

0:13:53 > 0:13:56- That's Texas.- No. - That's not him yet.

0:13:56 > 0:14:00Let's double check that name and see what happens if we get rid of "Jackson".

0:14:00 > 0:14:03Let's see what we get if we have an open search

0:14:03 > 0:14:05with Mars... and residence Georgia.

0:14:07 > 0:14:09There's something here. There's Mars Woodall

0:14:09 > 0:14:11In Twiggs County.

0:14:11 > 0:14:13Woodall?

0:14:13 > 0:14:15Let me see what... what we get here.

0:14:18 > 0:14:20"Mars Woodall."

0:14:20 > 0:14:22What's this right here?

0:14:22 > 0:14:24- He's a farmer.- A farmer?

0:14:24 > 0:14:25There's a...

0:14:25 > 0:14:26- Lucy.- ..a Lucy.

0:14:26 > 0:14:30- Short for Lucinda.- It very well could be short for Lucinda.

0:14:30 > 0:14:31"Wife."

0:14:31 > 0:14:33And then we've got Isaac, Phillip...

0:14:33 > 0:14:36And Wilson.

0:14:36 > 0:14:40- Wilson. - Wilson and Isaac and Phil

0:14:40 > 0:14:46were the children of Mars and Lucinda.

0:14:46 > 0:14:48That's them.

0:14:48 > 0:14:50That looks like a good match.

0:14:52 > 0:14:54He's a farmer.

0:14:54 > 0:14:58- A farmer is independent.- Right. - So he's running his own show.

0:14:58 > 0:15:02- Has land probably, too.- He may have land. He may be a renter.

0:15:02 > 0:15:08But at this point in time in 1880, you're going in the name of Woodall.

0:15:09 > 0:15:16The end of the Civil War in 1865 brought emancipation to America's four million slaves.

0:15:16 > 0:15:21Many freed men and women took the last name of their former slave owners as their own.

0:15:23 > 0:15:27Jackson is the surname that Mars chose to use later in life.

0:15:27 > 0:15:33However, in the 1880 census, his family name is recorded as Woodall.

0:15:35 > 0:15:39You asked earlier about tracking him back to see if you could find out

0:15:39 > 0:15:43- his former owner.- Right.

0:15:43 > 0:15:46So we're probably not going to be looking for Jackson now.

0:15:46 > 0:15:49It's going to be looking for Woodall in the area right around Twiggs.

0:15:49 > 0:15:53- Uh, let's go on back up to...- Uh-oh, are we coming to this moment?

0:15:53 > 0:15:57- We're coming to this moment.- Who owned him?- We're going there.

0:15:57 > 0:15:58We're going there.

0:15:58 > 0:16:00And we're going to look for a Woodall...

0:16:00 > 0:16:02Twiggs County, Georgia.

0:16:05 > 0:16:08There's a match. Uh, there's three here.

0:16:08 > 0:16:11What it looks like to me is man and wife right there.

0:16:11 > 0:16:13- Mm-hmm.- And their son.

0:16:13 > 0:16:15Let's go see James Woodall.

0:16:15 > 0:16:17August, 1860.

0:16:17 > 0:16:19This is the 1860 census.

0:16:19 > 0:16:22So right before the Civil War breaks out.

0:16:22 > 0:16:26We're looking for...

0:16:26 > 0:16:30James Woodall - farmer.

0:16:30 > 0:16:33He's a farmer. He's got a big plantation.

0:16:33 > 0:16:35This is the value of the property.

0:16:35 > 0:16:38And at that time, that was - this is a big place.

0:16:38 > 0:16:42The only Woodall that we find in Twiggs County...

0:16:42 > 0:16:44We've got, uh...

0:16:44 > 0:16:47your great-great-grandfather and mother

0:16:47 > 0:16:48in Twiggs County.

0:16:48 > 0:16:50- Mars and Lucinda.- Mm-hmm.

0:16:50 > 0:16:52That's who owned them.

0:16:52 > 0:16:57Uh, I think that's... that's very likely.

0:16:57 > 0:16:59There is the slave schedule that we go to.

0:16:59 > 0:17:03We're going to look for a James Woodall.

0:17:03 > 0:17:05In Twiggs County.

0:17:09 > 0:17:12There is James Woodall.

0:17:14 > 0:17:17These are all his slaves. Let's count them.

0:17:17 > 0:17:20One, two, three, four,

0:17:20 > 0:17:23five, six, seven, eight...

0:17:23 > 0:17:25One of those nameless people could be

0:17:25 > 0:17:28my great-great-grandfather Mars,

0:17:28 > 0:17:30but because he was a slave,

0:17:30 > 0:17:32he wasn't deemed important enough to be named.

0:17:32 > 0:17:34A little-known fact is that,

0:17:34 > 0:17:37according to the United States constitution, at the time,

0:17:37 > 0:17:42slaves were considered to be three-fifths of a human being.

0:17:42 > 0:17:47After emancipation, former slaves were promised 40 acres of land.

0:17:47 > 0:17:51The promise became known as 40 acres and a mule

0:17:51 > 0:17:55because it was believed this was the minimum requirement needed

0:17:55 > 0:17:56to make a living.

0:17:56 > 0:18:00For the majority of slaves, the promise was never honoured.

0:18:00 > 0:18:04So even though they were free, many were still dependent on their former slave masters.

0:18:06 > 0:18:10In the 1880 census, Mars is listed as a farmer.

0:18:10 > 0:18:12To find out if he owned the land,

0:18:12 > 0:18:15Spike is looking at the agricultural census for that year.

0:18:17 > 0:18:21So, let's see if we can find Mr Mars Woodall.

0:18:21 > 0:18:24And this is the census of agriculture?

0:18:24 > 0:18:28Twiggs County, State of Georgia, 1880.

0:18:28 > 0:18:34Here, down this line here, is actually Woodall, Mars.

0:18:34 > 0:18:38That says, "I'm an owner of this land".

0:18:38 > 0:18:41- He owned.- He owns.- He's a landowner! - He's a landowner, 1880.

0:18:41 > 0:18:4580 acres...of tilled land.

0:18:45 > 0:18:48- 80!- 80 acres, which is pretty... - That's two times 40!

0:18:48 > 0:18:50Yeah, two times 40. He's doubled up your...

0:18:50 > 0:18:53- You got some catching up to do with that 40 acres!- I know!

0:18:53 > 0:18:57He's got 200 worth of livestock which is a lot of livestock.

0:18:57 > 0:19:00He's got two working oxen here...

0:19:00 > 0:19:02two milk cows...

0:19:02 > 0:19:06um, six other cows, I guess beef cows...

0:19:06 > 0:19:09- two...- How many pigs?

0:19:09 > 0:19:11- Ten pigs.- Ten pigs.- Ten pigs.

0:19:11 > 0:19:14- Chickens?- Chickens, he's got a mess of chickens,

0:19:14 > 0:19:17he's got... I saw...

0:19:17 > 0:19:19and he's got peas he's raising too.

0:19:19 > 0:19:23- He's got sweet potatoes that he's raising.- Mm, sweet potatoes, sweet potatoes.

0:19:23 > 0:19:25- Right, that's an African import. - It is.

0:19:25 > 0:19:31He raised 650 worth of produce off that farm.

0:19:31 > 0:19:32That's a lot of money in 1880.

0:19:32 > 0:19:35Now, some of this they were eating themselves,

0:19:35 > 0:19:39- raising corn, taking it... - They'd sell the surplus, right?

0:19:39 > 0:19:44Exactly, they're taking the surplus to sell, so he has a very successful farm going right now.

0:19:44 > 0:19:46And this is 15 years after emancipation?

0:19:46 > 0:19:50- In less than a generation he's got...- How did he get that land?

0:19:50 > 0:19:56Is it plausible that...

0:19:56 > 0:19:58he bought this land from Woodall,

0:19:58 > 0:20:01- or it was loaned to him? - It sure is.

0:20:01 > 0:20:05Frequently, ex-slaves who got ahead, who got land,

0:20:05 > 0:20:08used relationships with previous masters,

0:20:08 > 0:20:11that they had some kind of good relationship with,

0:20:11 > 0:20:12to put in a good word for them.

0:20:12 > 0:20:14If it wasn't Woodall giving him a loan,

0:20:14 > 0:20:17it's going down to the bank and saying, you know,

0:20:17 > 0:20:18"I can speak for this man.

0:20:18 > 0:20:21"I think he's a hard worker. He's a responsible guy."

0:20:21 > 0:20:23Because once you get that first break,

0:20:23 > 0:20:24the next break's easier.

0:20:24 > 0:20:26It's just getting something to work with.

0:20:26 > 0:20:28So it all comes down to ownership of the land.

0:20:28 > 0:20:29- It did.- Get some land.

0:20:29 > 0:20:31- It did for these people. - Get some land.

0:20:31 > 0:20:37All I want to know, this 80 acres, where is it?

0:20:37 > 0:20:39Where is his 40? That's in the map room over here.

0:20:39 > 0:20:43We're going to take a look and see if we can find out where it is.

0:20:43 > 0:20:46This is the original document?

0:20:46 > 0:20:49This is the original document, this is the L-shaped district,

0:20:49 > 0:20:54in the north-east part of the county that Woodall was finding.

0:20:54 > 0:20:59The nice thing with this map is it shows where the streams are.

0:20:59 > 0:21:04That's going to be important for farming, you need the water.

0:21:04 > 0:21:06All through here, there is a stream coming through here,

0:21:06 > 0:21:08all kinds of natural irrigation.

0:21:08 > 0:21:12This is what's called body land. That's where you made your money.

0:21:12 > 0:21:17It tended to be difficult for black folks to get access to that kind of land on their own, after slavery.

0:21:17 > 0:21:22They went to a place like this, where the land was barren.

0:21:22 > 0:21:25Off the roads, sandier soil.

0:21:25 > 0:21:28Here they are, these people have connections, respect,

0:21:28 > 0:21:33some kind of thing that's giving them access to really good land.

0:21:33 > 0:21:37So that's where they were. Right there.

0:21:37 > 0:21:40Amazing. He was a farmer.

0:21:40 > 0:21:42Had a lot of land.

0:21:42 > 0:21:45That was the number one goal coming out of slavery.

0:21:45 > 0:21:47You wanted to be a landowner.

0:21:47 > 0:21:49You lived off the land. You worked the land.

0:21:49 > 0:21:53This area, Twiggs County, in the middle of Georgia,

0:21:53 > 0:21:57it was hostile for negroes at that time.

0:21:57 > 0:21:58The Klan was roaming.

0:21:58 > 0:22:01This area was also known for lynching.

0:22:01 > 0:22:04So in order to do what he did, he had...

0:22:06 > 0:22:08..great adversity.

0:22:12 > 0:22:15Spike is on his way to the land that was thought to have been owned

0:22:15 > 0:22:18by his great-great grandfather, Mars.

0:22:19 > 0:22:23That's Georgia clay right there - Red Georgia clay.

0:22:41 > 0:22:44It is hard for me to believe I'm walking the same 80 acres

0:22:44 > 0:22:50that my great-great grandfather, Mars Jackson, owned and worked.

0:22:50 > 0:22:53This is a magnificent view.

0:22:53 > 0:22:56And at one time,

0:22:56 > 0:23:01my great-great grandfather, Mars Jackson,

0:23:01 > 0:23:06owned this land.

0:23:09 > 0:23:11In tribute to Mars,

0:23:11 > 0:23:14I had sent to me from New York

0:23:14 > 0:23:18what I wore in my first film,

0:23:18 > 0:23:20She's Gotta Have It.

0:23:23 > 0:23:26This is it. This is what Mars looked like.

0:23:28 > 0:23:31Many years later. But it all started here.

0:23:32 > 0:23:35It was not an accident that I called up my grandmother

0:23:35 > 0:23:38to ask her for a name.

0:23:40 > 0:23:42That was a spirit.

0:23:43 > 0:23:47That was a spirit that made me pick up the phone and say,

0:23:47 > 0:23:50"Mamma, I need a name."

0:23:52 > 0:23:56That was the spirit of Mars that made that happen.

0:23:56 > 0:23:59And his wife Lucinda.

0:24:02 > 0:24:04The United States of America may not have given Mars

0:24:04 > 0:24:06his 40 acres and a mule,

0:24:06 > 0:24:09but it looks like he did much better than that.

0:24:09 > 0:24:10He had more than 80 acres.

0:24:10 > 0:24:12Before I go,

0:24:12 > 0:24:15there's one last thing I must do.

0:24:15 > 0:24:18Dig up some of this land.

0:24:18 > 0:24:22I'm going to show it to my children.

0:24:22 > 0:24:27Say, "This is where you came from, this Georgia red clay."

0:24:37 > 0:24:39The sun's about to set here.

0:24:41 > 0:24:43And we got to get out of here.

0:24:43 > 0:24:49They said, "Don't let the sun go down on your black ass.

0:24:49 > 0:24:53"You better get out of town, boy,

0:24:53 > 0:24:56"if you know what's good for you."

0:24:56 > 0:25:00"Oh, yes, massa. No trouble, sir.

0:25:00 > 0:25:04"No trouble, I'm leaving right now.

0:25:04 > 0:25:07"Just passing through, minding my business."

0:25:22 > 0:25:26The red clay on my hands is the same dirt Mars worked,

0:25:26 > 0:25:31making a life for himself and his family after the civil war.

0:25:31 > 0:25:35Unfortunately, no one knows what happened to Mars

0:25:35 > 0:25:38or how he lost his land after the 1880s.

0:25:38 > 0:25:40But he set the bar high early.

0:25:40 > 0:25:43To go from a slave to a landowner?

0:25:43 > 0:25:49Now I know where my family gets that entrepreneurial spirit.

0:25:49 > 0:25:51Spike's found out as much as he can about Mars.

0:25:51 > 0:25:55So now, he's turning his attention to Mars's wife, Lucinda -

0:25:55 > 0:25:58his great-great grandmother.

0:25:58 > 0:26:01He's received a copy of her death certificate.

0:26:04 > 0:26:08It says her parents were...

0:26:08 > 0:26:14Wilson Griswold and Matilda Griswold.

0:26:14 > 0:26:18But who were they?

0:26:18 > 0:26:21Because the slaves weren't freed

0:26:21 > 0:26:24until after the civil war ended in 1865,

0:26:24 > 0:26:28the first possible census that Lucinda's parents,

0:26:28 > 0:26:32Wilson and Matilda, could have been listed in, is 1870.

0:26:35 > 0:26:41So I'm going to try to find Griswold here.

0:26:41 > 0:26:47There's a... Matilda Griswold.

0:26:47 > 0:26:49She's a cook.

0:26:51 > 0:26:55And she was... It's listed here,

0:26:55 > 0:26:59Matilda is a mulatto, mixed race.

0:26:59 > 0:27:02Hmm.

0:27:02 > 0:27:05In Griswoldville.

0:27:05 > 0:27:09Matilda Griswold.

0:27:09 > 0:27:11Mulatto.

0:27:14 > 0:27:17Given that both Lucinda's parents were called Griswold

0:27:17 > 0:27:19and her mother lived in Griswoldville,

0:27:19 > 0:27:24it's likely that Griswold was the name of the man who owned them.

0:27:24 > 0:27:28We don't see Wilson Griswold on this census,

0:27:28 > 0:27:32who is Lucinda's father.

0:27:34 > 0:27:36So where is Griswoldville, Georgia,

0:27:36 > 0:27:40and what happened to Wilson Griswold?

0:27:40 > 0:27:41I'm meeting Daina Berry,

0:27:41 > 0:27:45a historian of the 19th century south in Macon, Georgia.

0:27:45 > 0:27:48So let's look at Griswold, OK?

0:27:48 > 0:27:51So this is the 1850 slave census schedule.

0:27:51 > 0:27:55And we have here Samuel Griswold.

0:27:55 > 0:27:57Then, as we look to see how many slaves he has,

0:27:57 > 0:27:59these are all Griswold slaves.

0:27:59 > 0:28:03- He owned a lot of slaves. - Very, yep.

0:28:03 > 0:28:06So a large slave holder. A large slave holder.

0:28:06 > 0:28:11- But that makes sense, because it's Griswoldville.- Even has a town named after him, right?

0:28:11 > 0:28:14- Right. He named the town himself. - Yeah.

0:28:14 > 0:28:17So that brings us to where's Wilson, right?

0:28:17 > 0:28:20- Where's Wilson? - I've come across this document.

0:28:22 > 0:28:26This is actually a contract for slaves to work in a business.

0:28:26 > 0:28:29They worked the cotton gin business.

0:28:29 > 0:28:31The owner is Griswold.

0:28:31 > 0:28:34And he's naming his slaves to be hired out.

0:28:34 > 0:28:38"George, Jerry, Henry, Little Jackson,

0:28:38 > 0:28:40Matthew, and Wilson."

0:28:40 > 0:28:43- There he is.- Wilson.

0:28:43 > 0:28:45And the thing I think was most interesting about this

0:28:45 > 0:28:48is that when you have slaves that are named,

0:28:48 > 0:28:49they're obviously valued slaves.

0:28:49 > 0:28:54- So these are probably skilled mill workers...- Right.- Uh, mechanics.

0:28:54 > 0:28:57They'd go into the gin shop, and that's when they did the work.

0:28:57 > 0:29:00And that's probably where Wilson was,

0:29:00 > 0:29:03- which means Griswold owned skilled slaves.- Right.

0:29:03 > 0:29:06And I also came across this document.

0:29:06 > 0:29:09"On or about the 21st day of November last,

0:29:09 > 0:29:16"The federal army under General W T Sherman..."

0:29:16 > 0:29:18Mmm-hmm!

0:29:18 > 0:29:22"..came to the residences of said Sam Griswold

0:29:22 > 0:29:26"and destroyed by burning his grist and saw mills, "foundry, gin shop.

0:29:26 > 0:29:31"Said enemy also took and carried away five negro men,

0:29:31 > 0:29:33"four of them mechanics."

0:29:33 > 0:29:36- All right. That might be him. - Mmm-hmm.

0:29:36 > 0:29:39As the union army commander for the north,

0:29:39 > 0:29:42General Sherman conducted a strategy of total war

0:29:42 > 0:29:45and scorched earth in Georgia.

0:29:45 > 0:29:50He destroyed industries that supported the southern confederacy,

0:29:50 > 0:29:53including the cotton gin factory in Griswoldville,

0:29:53 > 0:29:57where Wilson built and maintained cotton engines.

0:29:57 > 0:30:03This was just one stop on Sherman's march from Atlanta to Savannah.

0:30:06 > 0:30:09So, Wilson...

0:30:09 > 0:30:12might have left with General Sherman.

0:30:12 > 0:30:14It's possible.

0:30:14 > 0:30:16- Either taken or killed.- Killed?

0:30:16 > 0:30:19We don't know that. They never returned. They never saw them again.

0:30:19 > 0:30:22- This is 1865.- Right.- So right before the war ended.

0:30:22 > 0:30:24This is in February. The war ends in April.

0:30:25 > 0:30:30An ancestor of mine was on a plantation...

0:30:30 > 0:30:34that General Sherman...

0:30:34 > 0:30:37came and burned to the ground.

0:30:37 > 0:30:39Exactly.

0:30:39 > 0:30:41- That's history right there. - It sure is.

0:30:41 > 0:30:44Absolutely.

0:30:49 > 0:30:54There's nothing left of Griswoldville today.

0:30:54 > 0:30:57There's just a street sign, train tracks,

0:30:57 > 0:30:59and a plaque commemorating the spot

0:30:59 > 0:31:01where the cotton gin factory once stood.

0:31:01 > 0:31:05The factory and the town were destroyed during the civil war.

0:31:05 > 0:31:08The Confederate Pistol Factory.

0:31:08 > 0:31:11"In 1862, to meet the pressing need

0:31:11 > 0:31:14"of the confederate states' army for revolvers

0:31:14 > 0:31:16"of the Colt pattern,

0:31:16 > 0:31:20"the Griswold cotton gin company's plant on this site

0:31:20 > 0:31:24"was converted to a pistol factory."

0:31:24 > 0:31:29"In March, production of cotton gin machinery was discontinued

0:31:29 > 0:31:32"and retooling was begun.

0:31:32 > 0:31:36"The Griswold and Grier revolver is known to collectors

0:31:36 > 0:31:39"as the brass-framed Confederate Colt.

0:31:39 > 0:31:43"It is the most common of all Confederate-manufactured revolvers."

0:31:46 > 0:31:47MOUTHS

0:31:48 > 0:31:52So...

0:31:52 > 0:31:54not only were they slave owners,

0:31:54 > 0:31:59they were supplying Colt pistols

0:31:59 > 0:32:02for the Confederacy.

0:32:02 > 0:32:08And Wilson, my great-great-great-grandfather,

0:32:08 > 0:32:10worked there.

0:32:13 > 0:32:15And Sherman's march towards the sea,

0:32:15 > 0:32:18they burnt down this factory

0:32:18 > 0:32:20and, er,

0:32:20 > 0:32:25that's really the last time, Wilson, we know what happened to him.

0:32:25 > 0:32:26Either...

0:32:26 > 0:32:30Which I hope is not the case.

0:32:30 > 0:32:35Either he died protecting massa's factory,

0:32:35 > 0:32:39or...

0:32:39 > 0:32:43he became a sab...a saboteur...

0:32:43 > 0:32:47CHUCKLES ..and started - boom! - blowing stuff up...

0:32:47 > 0:32:49as the Union approached

0:32:49 > 0:32:52and left with Sherman's army. We don't know what happened.

0:32:52 > 0:32:57Griswold historian Bill Bragg is joining Spike

0:32:57 > 0:33:01to shed some light on Wilson's experience at the cotton-engine factory.

0:33:01 > 0:33:04- Hi.- How you doing?- Bill Bragg. - Spike Lee.

0:33:04 > 0:33:06- Nice to meet you. - How you doing?- Pretty good.

0:33:06 > 0:33:10- So you got some information?- A little bit. Let's see what we have here.

0:33:10 > 0:33:13This was built right here.

0:33:13 > 0:33:16- That's authentic?- This is authentic.

0:33:16 > 0:33:19And there's a good chance that my

0:33:19 > 0:33:23great-great-great-grandfather, Wilson Griswold, built this.

0:33:23 > 0:33:25Oh, yes.

0:33:25 > 0:33:28He would have to have been involved in part of the process.

0:33:28 > 0:33:32Right. It's like a factory - everyone works on a certain part.

0:33:32 > 0:33:36Oh, then, he definitely had a part in this.

0:33:36 > 0:33:40No other pistol manufacturer in the Confederacy made more than this one did.

0:33:40 > 0:33:43This factory here, made more than any of the others.

0:33:43 > 0:33:46My great-great-great-grandfather...

0:33:46 > 0:33:52built this Confederate... CHUCKLES ..pistol.

0:33:52 > 0:33:55- Exactly.- Which was used to kill...

0:33:55 > 0:33:57..the people who were coming to liberate him.

0:33:57 > 0:34:01- Yep.- A-ha...- The irony.- Yeah,

0:34:01 > 0:34:04very heavy irony.

0:34:06 > 0:34:10- So no pictures of the...? - No pictures of the factory.

0:34:10 > 0:34:13What about Massa Griswold?

0:34:13 > 0:34:16- LAUGHS - There is a picture of him.

0:34:22 > 0:34:25That's probably around 1860. He had a stroke by that time

0:34:25 > 0:34:27and he doesn't look real happy.

0:34:27 > 0:34:31"Mm, mm, mm," as my grandma would say.

0:34:31 > 0:34:35- Is this the only known picture of him?- That's the only known picture.

0:34:35 > 0:34:38What about...? What was his wife's name?

0:34:38 > 0:34:40- Oh, Louisa.- Louisa. You got a picture of her?

0:34:40 > 0:34:42There is a picture of her.

0:34:45 > 0:34:48- Neither one of them look real happy. - THEY LAUGH

0:34:48 > 0:34:49Whoo!

0:34:54 > 0:34:57Now, let me ask you a question.

0:34:59 > 0:35:02Wilson Griswold...

0:35:04 > 0:35:09..married a woman named Matilda.

0:35:09 > 0:35:13In the census, she's listed as mulatto.

0:35:13 > 0:35:17Is there a chance... he was her father?

0:35:17 > 0:35:19Oh, yes, there's a chance.

0:35:19 > 0:35:22There's a good chance, particularly if you look at, um,

0:35:22 > 0:35:25all of the other similar situations here in Central Georgia.

0:35:33 > 0:35:37At the very beginning of this journey,

0:35:37 > 0:35:39I wanted to know all my ancestors.

0:35:39 > 0:35:42Now we know. There's also a good chance

0:35:42 > 0:35:47that I might be related to this person.

0:35:47 > 0:35:50To find out more about his ancestor Matilda,

0:35:50 > 0:35:53Spike has returned to historian Daina Berry.

0:35:53 > 0:35:59How can I find out, who were the parents of Matilda?

0:35:59 > 0:36:04- Is she the daughter of Griswold? - Good question.

0:36:04 > 0:36:07- She's listed as mulatto. - Right, looking at slave narratives,

0:36:07 > 0:36:12- I looked at a number of the narratives from Jones County and neighbouring counties.- Right.

0:36:12 > 0:36:16There were female slaves talking about being the daughters of their owners in their narratives.

0:36:16 > 0:36:22- So that definitely sets a precedent for that particular community in this region.- Right.

0:36:22 > 0:36:26And looking at some family papers, I came across family memoirs

0:36:26 > 0:36:28of the Griswold family

0:36:28 > 0:36:31from the granddaughter.

0:36:31 > 0:36:35Here where they're talking about Griswold,

0:36:35 > 0:36:37the grandchildren mention they never spent time with him

0:36:37 > 0:36:40because he was with his favourite negroes.

0:36:40 > 0:36:44He gave them money. You know, she talks about

0:36:44 > 0:36:46they would constantly slip in,

0:36:46 > 0:36:48beg him for money and would always get it.

0:36:48 > 0:36:52He just loved some of his negroes.

0:36:52 > 0:36:55- Love them how? - That's a good question.

0:36:57 > 0:37:01And we know his wife... almost hated negroes.

0:37:03 > 0:37:05Why do you think that is?

0:37:05 > 0:37:07Very good question.

0:37:14 > 0:37:17I did some research and came across a descendant...

0:37:17 > 0:37:19of the Griswold family.

0:37:19 > 0:37:23- That's alive today?- Yes. And I think she would like to meet you.

0:37:25 > 0:37:29- So...what are your thoughts? - Does she know she owned slaves?

0:37:29 > 0:37:33- THEY CHUCKLE - I'm quite sure she does.

0:37:33 > 0:37:35LAUGHTER

0:37:35 > 0:37:40Spike's on his way to Arlington, Texas, to meet Guinevere Grier,

0:37:40 > 0:37:43a direct descendant of Samuel Griswold,

0:37:43 > 0:37:45the slave master who owned his ancestors.

0:37:48 > 0:37:52'I've really been, uh...

0:37:52 > 0:37:56'trying to keep an open mind.

0:37:56 > 0:38:01'She had nothing to do with slavery.

0:38:01 > 0:38:06'I still have this problem about human beings owning

0:38:06 > 0:38:08'other human beings.

0:38:08 > 0:38:14'How many white Americans even think about that?

0:38:14 > 0:38:18'That their ancestors owned slaves?

0:38:21 > 0:38:25'Do they think about that or do they just try to...

0:38:25 > 0:38:28'block that out of their minds?' BELL RINGS

0:38:28 > 0:38:32CHUCKLES

0:38:32 > 0:38:36- Hi.- Hello.- Mr Lee.- How you doing, Guinevere?- Please call me Guinevere.

0:38:39 > 0:38:41- So... - CHUCKLES

0:38:41 > 0:38:43..I understand

0:38:43 > 0:38:46that we have Samuel Griswold in our lives.

0:38:46 > 0:38:51- Who was he to you? - He's my great-great-grandfather.

0:38:51 > 0:38:53And what about you?

0:38:53 > 0:38:58My great-great-great-grandparents...

0:38:58 > 0:39:01- Right, both. - ..Wilson and Matilda Griswold.

0:39:01 > 0:39:05- Right.- They took on the name... - Mm-hm.

0:39:05 > 0:39:08- ..of the slave master.- Right.

0:39:08 > 0:39:12And your great-great-grandfather

0:39:12 > 0:39:15was possibly the father of

0:39:15 > 0:39:22my great-great-great-grandmother.

0:39:24 > 0:39:30We are possibly third cousins, twice removed.

0:39:30 > 0:39:33Twice removed.

0:39:33 > 0:39:36- THEY CHUCKLE - I have a famous relative.

0:39:36 > 0:39:41Throughout the years, I would just...

0:39:41 > 0:39:45be in the airport in New York,

0:39:45 > 0:39:47or anywhere in America,

0:39:47 > 0:39:51and just see a random white American say,

0:39:51 > 0:39:54- and think to myself, "You know, I could be related to that person." - Mm-hm.

0:39:54 > 0:39:59And I never thought any more about that.

0:39:59 > 0:40:04- CHUCKLES But now... - Yeah.- ..it's hitting me in the face.

0:40:04 > 0:40:09- I'm on your couch, and we're cousins.- Wow.

0:40:09 > 0:40:12You've been...

0:40:12 > 0:40:17- You know what I would like you to know...- What's that?

0:40:17 > 0:40:20SIGHS

0:40:20 > 0:40:23- Slavery is awful.- Mm-hm.

0:40:23 > 0:40:28Um, the situation of the people...

0:40:28 > 0:40:31who lived for generations after,

0:40:31 > 0:40:37you know, was really horrible and bad. But I think a lot more people

0:40:37 > 0:40:41were just as horrified by both slavery

0:40:41 > 0:40:45and the treatment of blacks in our country.

0:40:45 > 0:40:49I just... I think that...

0:40:49 > 0:40:52I don't want you to apologise for what the ancestors did.

0:40:52 > 0:40:54You had nothing to do with that.

0:40:54 > 0:40:58- Excuse me, I'm getting snivelly. - LAUGHS

0:41:00 > 0:41:04- How do you feel about it?- How... how do I feel?- Yeah?

0:41:04 > 0:41:09- About Samuel Griswold, your...? - Well, I can't love the man.- Mm-hm.

0:41:09 > 0:41:15I just can't. Or his wife or any slave owner,

0:41:15 > 0:41:18because I just...

0:41:18 > 0:41:21How can you own another human being?

0:41:24 > 0:41:27So do you know who you are?

0:41:27 > 0:41:31Oh, I've always known who I've been, who I am. But now I know more.

0:41:42 > 0:41:45This journey's been very meaningful.

0:41:45 > 0:41:49It's a living record...

0:41:49 > 0:41:51of my ancestors

0:41:51 > 0:41:54on my mother's side of the family.

0:41:58 > 0:42:03And my grandmother, she'd have been proud of her ancestry.

0:42:03 > 0:42:07She'd have been happy that we're doing this for sure.

0:42:07 > 0:42:11I hope that my children understand

0:42:11 > 0:42:14that they're on the shoulders of great people.

0:42:14 > 0:42:20They should use that to motivate them to excel.

0:42:20 > 0:42:22History's very important.

0:42:22 > 0:42:27I am who I am today based upon my ancestors.

0:42:29 > 0:42:31Hopefully, in the future,

0:42:31 > 0:42:35I'll do a film, a slave epic.

0:42:35 > 0:42:41Really do something that, um, deals with the complexities

0:42:41 > 0:42:45that happened on the plantation.

0:43:06 > 0:43:09Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd