0:00:02 > 0:00:05Emmy-award-winning talk show host Rosie O'Donnell
0:00:05 > 0:00:08is also an accomplished actor and author.
0:00:08 > 0:00:09Five...four...
0:00:09 > 0:00:12Her most recent venture is hosting a morning radio show
0:00:12 > 0:00:16that she runs from her family home outside New York City,
0:00:16 > 0:00:18where she lives with her four children.
0:00:18 > 0:00:21I come from a large, Irish-Catholic family.
0:00:21 > 0:00:24I grew up on Long Island, I'm the middle of five kids.
0:00:24 > 0:00:27Once I got older and I was lucky enough to have some success,
0:00:27 > 0:00:31I built a home in Nyack as a sort of haven
0:00:31 > 0:00:32for me and my kids.
0:00:32 > 0:00:34I wanted privacy, but I also dreamed of a place
0:00:34 > 0:00:38where we could have fun and be creative.
0:00:38 > 0:00:40I think the desire to provide a fun home
0:00:40 > 0:00:42comes from the fact that, you know,
0:00:42 > 0:00:44my childhood home was not so fun.
0:00:44 > 0:00:46You know. I mean, it was sad.
0:00:46 > 0:00:49My mom was sick.
0:00:49 > 0:00:52I was ten years old when my mom died of cancer.
0:00:52 > 0:00:56And, you know, it was the defining moment of my life, without a doubt.
0:00:56 > 0:01:00And, um, it was like all the colour was sucked out of the movie.
0:01:00 > 0:01:03You know? And it went to black and white.
0:01:03 > 0:01:07It was life-altering.
0:01:07 > 0:01:10I try hard to sort of reframe the picture of my life,
0:01:10 > 0:01:14like, you know, I'm not only the motherless daughter,
0:01:14 > 0:01:15I am now the mother.
0:01:15 > 0:01:19So I want to find out about my mother's family
0:01:19 > 0:01:20and their history.
0:01:20 > 0:01:23To see them as fully fleshed-out individuals
0:01:23 > 0:01:26and to understand what their journey here was like.
0:01:45 > 0:01:47I'd like to thank the crew of Who Do You Think You Are,
0:01:47 > 0:01:50because they're here filming... Hello! ..today.
0:01:50 > 0:01:51WOMAN LAUGHS
0:01:51 > 0:01:56And it's the beginning of my journey. We don't know where we're going, what we're doing.
0:01:56 > 0:01:59I can't even imagine. Wouldn't the O'Donnells be from Ireland or...?
0:01:59 > 0:02:02- MAN:- You'd think. - My mother's name, McKenna, Murtha
0:02:02 > 0:02:05- Irish, we're all Irish.- Right.
0:02:05 > 0:02:08Imagine if we find out, like, we're going to Israel - I'm Jewish.
0:02:08 > 0:02:12It's really McKenna... Rabowitz or something.
0:02:12 > 0:02:15I think if we end up NOT going to Ireland,
0:02:15 > 0:02:16it would be a shock.
0:02:16 > 0:02:20I mean, that was always what we were told. That was our identity.
0:02:20 > 0:02:23One thing about growing up Irish-Catholic,
0:02:23 > 0:02:26we didn't talk about anything bad that happened. Nothing at all.
0:02:26 > 0:02:28Not my mother's death,
0:02:28 > 0:02:30never mind my family history.
0:02:30 > 0:02:32All I know about my mother's side
0:02:32 > 0:02:34is that HER mother, who lived with us,
0:02:34 > 0:02:35was Kathryn McKenna.
0:02:35 > 0:02:38We called her Nana.
0:02:38 > 0:02:40But I never knew my grandfather, Daniel Murtha,
0:02:40 > 0:02:43because he died before I was born.
0:02:45 > 0:02:47Rosie has asked her brother Ed
0:02:47 > 0:02:51to help her get started with her research.
0:02:51 > 0:02:54I have all of, um, Nana's photos and letters
0:02:54 > 0:02:57from her bedroom furniture. It was all in the same drawer.
0:02:57 > 0:02:59- Really? - From when it left from Commack.
0:02:59 > 0:03:01Yeah, kind of scary. So I went through all the stuff.
0:03:01 > 0:03:06- What did you find? What's this? - This is Dan Murtha's draft card
0:03:06 > 0:03:07for World War I.
0:03:07 > 0:03:11"Daniel A Murtha, age 22.
0:03:11 > 0:03:15"Date of birth - November 22nd, 1894.
0:03:15 > 0:03:21"604 Henderson Street, Jersey City, New Jersey."
0:03:21 > 0:03:23Where do you think you would start looking
0:03:23 > 0:03:25to find more information about them? Any ideas?
0:03:25 > 0:03:27Uh, I don't know.
0:03:27 > 0:03:30Jersey City.
0:03:30 > 0:03:32It's not going to be as easy as it looks on TV.
0:03:32 > 0:03:33No!
0:03:33 > 0:03:35ROSIE LAUGHS
0:03:35 > 0:03:36And so we begin, Ed.
0:03:36 > 0:03:38Let's see what we find out.
0:03:42 > 0:03:46So I need to track down more information about Daniel Murtha.
0:03:48 > 0:03:53Rosie knows her grandfather Daniel Murtha's address and date of birth.
0:03:53 > 0:03:55Now she's meeting a genealogist in Jersey City
0:03:55 > 0:03:59to help her find more information about him in the census records.
0:03:59 > 0:04:01All right, let's load it up.
0:04:08 > 0:04:10OK, this... I think this is it here.
0:04:10 > 0:04:12- OK.- Henderson Street.
0:04:12 > 0:04:13Here we are, right?
0:04:13 > 0:04:15BOTH: Murtha.
0:04:15 > 0:04:17There's my grandfather, Daniel.
0:04:17 > 0:04:19Oh...
0:04:19 > 0:04:20BOTH: Murtha.
0:04:20 > 0:04:21Michael?
0:04:21 > 0:04:24That was my grandfather's father.
0:04:24 > 0:04:27- My great grandfather.- OK.
0:04:27 > 0:04:29And then continue down on the next page.
0:04:29 > 0:04:33Ellen was my great-grandmother.
0:04:33 > 0:04:37Rosie has discovered that Daniel's parents, Rosie's great-grandparents,
0:04:37 > 0:04:39were Ellen and Michael Murtha.
0:04:39 > 0:04:42To look for more information about them,
0:04:42 > 0:04:44Rosie has printed out the census record.
0:04:44 > 0:04:47What does it say about Michael?
0:04:47 > 0:04:49He's white, male.
0:04:49 > 0:04:54He was born February 1855, it looks like.
0:04:54 > 0:04:56And we have where he's born.
0:04:56 > 0:04:57Canada.
0:04:58 > 0:05:01In French Canada.
0:05:01 > 0:05:03So he was in French Canada,
0:05:03 > 0:05:05which would be Montreal?
0:05:05 > 0:05:08In that area, yeah. Somewhere in that area.
0:05:08 > 0:05:10And his parents, we have where they're born.
0:05:10 > 0:05:13Ireland. I knew it.
0:05:13 > 0:05:15Now, does it say what town in Ireland?
0:05:15 > 0:05:19A lot of times, vital records for Irish immigrants only say,
0:05:19 > 0:05:23"born in Ireland." They don't give you the exact town.
0:05:23 > 0:05:26And the hardest thing is to get the exact place of origin in Ireland.
0:05:26 > 0:05:29- It's not an easy task.- Right.
0:05:29 > 0:05:32So is there anything else we can tell about him from this?
0:05:32 > 0:05:35I have information on his wife, Ellen.
0:05:35 > 0:05:38Uh, she was born in August of 1864,
0:05:38 > 0:05:41so she was almost ten years younger than her husband.
0:05:41 > 0:05:45He was robbin' the cradle! You know those Murthas!
0:05:45 > 0:05:47SHE LAUGHS
0:05:47 > 0:05:52Rosie is on the trail of her great-grandfather Michael Murtha.
0:05:52 > 0:05:55She knows that he was born in 1855 in French Canada,
0:05:55 > 0:05:58and that his parents came from Ireland.
0:05:58 > 0:06:00So she's heading to Montreal
0:06:00 > 0:06:02to try to find out what part of Ireland they came from
0:06:02 > 0:06:04and why they left their homeland.
0:06:09 > 0:06:12She's meeting archivist Guillaume Lesage
0:06:12 > 0:06:14to look at some baptismal records
0:06:14 > 0:06:18from around the time her great-grandfather was born.
0:06:19 > 0:06:22OK, so here is the index.
0:06:22 > 0:06:24- Wow.- OK.
0:06:24 > 0:06:28OK, we're at 1855.
0:06:28 > 0:06:30OK. If you look in the margin,
0:06:30 > 0:06:32you have B for baptism,
0:06:32 > 0:06:35so that's what you're looking for.
0:06:36 > 0:06:39Ah! There he is.
0:06:39 > 0:06:40That is Michael Murtagh.
0:06:40 > 0:06:43- That is my great-grandfather right there.- Oh!
0:06:43 > 0:06:45So that means he was baptised...
0:06:45 > 0:06:48- He was baptised...- ..in Montreal. - In Montreal, yes.
0:06:48 > 0:06:50That means that I am part French-Canadian.
0:06:50 > 0:06:51Yes, we could say that.
0:06:51 > 0:06:54I've wondered why I've always enjoyed a chocolate croissant.
0:06:54 > 0:06:57- Well...- Now, maybe, Guillaume, it all makes sense.
0:06:57 > 0:06:59Yes, maybe, yeah.
0:06:59 > 0:07:02- OK, can you tell me what this says right here?- Yes, for sure.
0:07:02 > 0:07:07So it says that on the 25th of February, 1855,
0:07:07 > 0:07:10"I, priest undersigned, have baptised Michael
0:07:10 > 0:07:15"from the legitimate wedding of Andrew Murtagh,
0:07:15 > 0:07:19"who was a day worker, and Ann Doyle."
0:07:20 > 0:07:22Wow. I'm going to write down these names,
0:07:22 > 0:07:27because I had no knowledge of his parents' names.
0:07:27 > 0:07:29'So I'm closing in on my Irish heritage.'
0:07:29 > 0:07:34Rosie has just found out the names of her great-great-grandparents,
0:07:34 > 0:07:37Andrew Murtagh and Ann Doyle.
0:07:37 > 0:07:39So, er, Guillaume,
0:07:39 > 0:07:43do they ever list the nationality or where the parents are from?
0:07:43 > 0:07:47Maybe if you go at the National Archive Of Quebec...
0:07:47 > 0:07:49- Is that here in Montreal?- Yes, yes.
0:07:49 > 0:07:51- The National Archive Of Quebec?- Yeah.
0:07:51 > 0:07:54- That would be great.- Yeah, I hope you good luck on that one.
0:07:54 > 0:07:55Thank you so much.
0:07:57 > 0:08:01Rosie is off to meet an archivist at the National Archives of Quebec
0:08:01 > 0:08:05to try to solve the mystery of where her family came from in Ireland.
0:08:07 > 0:08:09Look at this.
0:08:09 > 0:08:14- This is a copy of the 1861 census.- OK.
0:08:14 > 0:08:17- I see a Murtagh there. - Exactly. That's Andrew.
0:08:17 > 0:08:21He's a labourer. "Place of birth, Ireland."
0:08:21 > 0:08:23Fantastic. I knew it.
0:08:23 > 0:08:26Does it say anything about their children or not?
0:08:26 > 0:08:27- Yep, yep.- Yes, it does.
0:08:27 > 0:08:32We see here there's Eliza. This looks like she's 18.
0:08:32 > 0:08:33The 1861 Canadian census
0:08:33 > 0:08:38reveals that Andrew Murtagh and Ann Doyle had six children.
0:08:38 > 0:08:41Rosie's great-grandfather Michael, George, and Ellen
0:08:41 > 0:08:42were born in Canada.
0:08:42 > 0:08:47But Eliza, Thomas, and Daniel were born in Ireland.
0:08:47 > 0:08:49So they had three in Ireland and three here.
0:08:49 > 0:08:53So, Denyse, is there any way that we could look up
0:08:53 > 0:08:56any other vital records on Andrew Murtagh
0:08:56 > 0:08:58or Ann, the parents?
0:08:58 > 0:09:01- We can see...- Ann, no E.
0:09:01 > 0:09:03- Right.- Doyle.
0:09:03 > 0:09:06Let's try Montreal.
0:09:07 > 0:09:11Look at that, there's an Ann Doyle. "Spouse - Murtagh."
0:09:11 > 0:09:15And it says, "burial, 1876."
0:09:15 > 0:09:18- So this is when she died.- Yeah.
0:09:18 > 0:09:21But it doesn't list what town or county
0:09:21 > 0:09:24- they were from in Ireland?- Nope.
0:09:24 > 0:09:26So I've sort of... I'm at a brick wall again.
0:09:26 > 0:09:29If you're lucky, there might be an obituary in the newspaper.
0:09:29 > 0:09:31We don't keep them in the archives,
0:09:31 > 0:09:34but the grande bibliotheque is just a few blocks away.
0:09:34 > 0:09:37We'll take a shot. We'll go to la bibliotheque.
0:09:37 > 0:09:39- Well, thanks for all your help. - You're welcome.
0:09:39 > 0:09:43'Now I know the year my great-great grandmother died.
0:09:43 > 0:09:47'This is the only clue I have to find my way to Ireland.
0:09:47 > 0:09:49'Looks like this might be my last shot,
0:09:49 > 0:09:53'so hopefully 1876 is my lucky number.'
0:09:54 > 0:09:57Rosie knows her great-great grandmother Ann Doyle
0:09:57 > 0:09:59died in 1876.
0:10:01 > 0:10:04Now she's going to search for any records that could reveal
0:10:04 > 0:10:07what town Ann Doyle was from in Ireland.
0:10:12 > 0:10:15I feel like I'm on a scavenger hunt in another time, another country,
0:10:15 > 0:10:17in another language.
0:10:19 > 0:10:21OK.
0:10:21 > 0:10:23Here we go.
0:10:34 > 0:10:36There it is.
0:10:36 > 0:10:38I don't believe it.
0:10:38 > 0:10:41"Ann Doyle,
0:10:41 > 0:10:44"Beloved wife of Andrew Murtagh,
0:10:44 > 0:10:48"a native of Kildare, Ireland."
0:10:48 > 0:10:51Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
0:10:51 > 0:10:53We have a winner.
0:10:53 > 0:10:57Kildare.
0:10:57 > 0:11:01OK. I've got my Ireland connection.
0:11:01 > 0:11:04I am sure my father used to sing songs about Kildare.
0:11:04 > 0:11:09# In the county Tyrone by the town of Kildaren. #
0:11:09 > 0:11:11I don't know if that's the same place, but...
0:11:11 > 0:11:14Kildare, Ireland. How about that?
0:11:14 > 0:11:17'At last, I have found a link to Ireland.
0:11:17 > 0:11:19'I feel like I won the lottery, in a way.
0:11:19 > 0:11:21'Because I never thought that there would be
0:11:21 > 0:11:24'a mention of Ann Doyle's death in the newspaper.
0:11:24 > 0:11:26'But there it was.
0:11:26 > 0:11:27'From Kildare, Ireland.'
0:11:27 > 0:11:30We have some place to start
0:11:30 > 0:11:33in, er, the old country.
0:11:35 > 0:11:38What are the chances of that?
0:11:38 > 0:11:42It's much more moving than I expected it to be.
0:11:42 > 0:11:46So Rosie is finally heading to Ireland, and the capital, Dublin.
0:11:50 > 0:11:53My whole journey has been building up to this moment.
0:11:55 > 0:11:59Next up, I want to find out about my great, great grandparents,
0:11:59 > 0:12:01Andrew Murtagh and Ann Doyle.
0:12:01 > 0:12:03I want to know about their family and why they left Ireland.
0:12:03 > 0:12:07Rosie has arranged to meet genealogist Nicola Morris.
0:12:07 > 0:12:10We have found Andrew Murtagh's family.
0:12:10 > 0:12:12- You have?- Yeah.
0:12:12 > 0:12:14In a parish called Blessington,
0:12:14 > 0:12:17just beside County Kildare.
0:12:17 > 0:12:21OK, so do you want to go and take a look at the records?
0:12:21 > 0:12:23- I do, and I have some scary news for you.- OK.
0:12:23 > 0:12:25- I'm going to try to drive us there. - OK.
0:12:25 > 0:12:28And I've never driven on the wrong side of the road. No insult.
0:12:28 > 0:12:31- It's not the wrong side! - Come with me. We'll see what happens.
0:12:31 > 0:12:34Do you have insurance?
0:12:34 > 0:12:35I do, yes. You should be fine.
0:12:35 > 0:12:39- Watch yourself. You're OK, you're OK.- OK, good. Thank you.
0:12:40 > 0:12:42Rosie and Nicola are heading to a local church
0:12:42 > 0:12:45close to the area where the Murtagh family lived.
0:12:47 > 0:12:50In Montreal, Rosie discovered that her great-great grandparents
0:12:50 > 0:12:52had three children born in Ireland.
0:12:52 > 0:12:55Now she's going to search for any record of them
0:12:55 > 0:12:56in the baptismal records.
0:12:56 > 0:12:58All right, so what do we have here?
0:12:58 > 0:13:01This is the register of baptisms and marriages
0:13:01 > 0:13:03for the parish of Blessington.
0:13:03 > 0:13:06So what we think this is is that it's actually a collection
0:13:06 > 0:13:09of some of the records made by the individual chapels.
0:13:09 > 0:13:13- Of course, the handwriting is different in some.- Exactly.
0:13:13 > 0:13:14Now, I have this.
0:13:14 > 0:13:17This is the census that I had.
0:13:17 > 0:13:21- OK.- Um, I don't know if this is all the Murtaghs that we had.
0:13:21 > 0:13:25OK, and so what sort of period were they having children, then?
0:13:25 > 0:13:26- Um, this was...- 1861.
0:13:26 > 0:13:28Yes, exactly.
0:13:28 > 0:13:30So in the 1830s, 1840s.
0:13:30 > 0:13:33Right, that's when they would have been baptised.
0:13:33 > 0:13:37OK. Here is one of the baptismal records.
0:13:43 > 0:13:46- "Daniel of Andrew Murtagh."- Mm-hmm.
0:13:46 > 0:13:47"And Ann Doyle!"
0:13:47 > 0:13:49- Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner. - Yep.
0:13:49 > 0:13:52That would be it.
0:13:52 > 0:13:53Wow.
0:13:53 > 0:13:55OK, are there other children?
0:13:55 > 0:14:01Because from the other census, there were six that we found.
0:14:01 > 0:14:04There were three and then there was a nine-year break,
0:14:04 > 0:14:05and then there were three more.
0:14:05 > 0:14:09We did find two other children for them in the register.
0:14:09 > 0:14:11Here we go.
0:14:11 > 0:14:13So there's the name of the child.
0:14:13 > 0:14:15- Eileen? Or is that Ellen?- Eliza.
0:14:15 > 0:14:18- Oh, Eliza.- Short for Elizabeth.
0:14:18 > 0:14:20- We had that one as well. - She's in the census?
0:14:20 > 0:14:22- Yes.- OK.
0:14:22 > 0:14:23And what date would this be?
0:14:23 > 0:14:27- This page is 1839.- Wow.
0:14:27 > 0:14:30And the last one...
0:14:30 > 0:14:31Here we go.
0:14:31 > 0:14:34- So here's a Murtagh. - Yep, that's right.
0:14:34 > 0:14:37- So that's Patrick.- Patrick.
0:14:37 > 0:14:39Patrick?
0:14:39 > 0:14:41So there's no record anywhere of Thomas in here?
0:14:41 > 0:14:44No, but I think from looking at this register,
0:14:44 > 0:14:46because it appears to be in fragments,
0:14:46 > 0:14:49I think that there are probably elements of it missing.
0:14:49 > 0:14:51- That were lost.- Yeah.
0:14:51 > 0:14:55And Patrick...we have no record of on the census.
0:14:55 > 0:14:59- So he isn't with the family in 1861. - He is not.
0:14:59 > 0:15:02Of the three children listed on the Canadian census,
0:15:02 > 0:15:06Rosie has found Eliza and Daniel in the church records.
0:15:06 > 0:15:08And while there's no trace of Thomas,
0:15:08 > 0:15:11there is another Irish-born child named Patrick.
0:15:11 > 0:15:14A child Rosie didn't know about.
0:15:14 > 0:15:17- Now, he was born in 1846.- Right.
0:15:17 > 0:15:20- That was just at the start of the famine in Ireland.- Oh, right.
0:15:23 > 0:15:28The potato famine was one of the darkest moments in Irish history,
0:15:28 > 0:15:32and over a million people died as a result of this national crisis.
0:15:32 > 0:15:35When disease attacked the potato crops in the 1840s,
0:15:35 > 0:15:39the devastation was compounded by the fact that the Irish
0:15:39 > 0:15:43were already among the most impoverished people in Europe.
0:15:43 > 0:15:45And most families were heavily dependent
0:15:45 > 0:15:48on the potato crops for survival.
0:15:48 > 0:15:51This catastrophe created mass starvation in Ireland,
0:15:51 > 0:15:53and children were at much greater risk
0:15:53 > 0:15:56of disease and death than adults.
0:15:56 > 0:15:59The harsh reality for families like the Murtaghs
0:15:59 > 0:16:04was that it was not uncommon for babies to die in infancy.
0:16:04 > 0:16:08Patrick may not have survived to leave for Canada with the family.
0:16:11 > 0:16:14It's a hard thing to think.
0:16:14 > 0:16:17It's an impossible concept for any mother.
0:16:17 > 0:16:23And, er, to know that that's sort of part of your heritage and history
0:16:23 > 0:16:26makes you, I think, or me, really grateful
0:16:26 > 0:16:29for the children that I have that are healthy,
0:16:29 > 0:16:31that are alive, and for the time that I live in,
0:16:31 > 0:16:34where, you know, it's not so commonplace.
0:16:44 > 0:16:47It looks as though baby Patrick died in infancy.
0:16:47 > 0:16:50But now Rosie wants to know how her great-great grandparents
0:16:50 > 0:16:53Andrew and Ann and their children
0:16:53 > 0:16:56survived the famine and made it to Canada.
0:16:57 > 0:17:00Nicola Morris, the genealogist I met,
0:17:00 > 0:17:02suggested I go to the Kildare Library in Newbridge
0:17:02 > 0:17:04to look into the records being kept
0:17:04 > 0:17:06by the Poor Law Union,
0:17:06 > 0:17:10which she tells me was a governmental agency that provided food, shelter,
0:17:10 > 0:17:14and sometimes assisted immigration for families stricken by poverty.
0:17:14 > 0:17:15How are you?
0:17:15 > 0:17:18Rosie is meeting librarian Mario Corrigan.
0:17:18 > 0:17:20- Very nice to meet you. - Good to meet you.
0:17:20 > 0:17:22I was wondering if you could help me.
0:17:22 > 0:17:24I have relatives from Kildare.
0:17:24 > 0:17:29The first record we have of them existing in Montreal, Canada,
0:17:29 > 0:17:32- was February 1855.- OK.
0:17:32 > 0:17:36So with that information, where should I go?
0:17:36 > 0:17:37You're looking for a period
0:17:37 > 0:17:40when they would have left Ireland to go to Montreal?
0:17:40 > 0:17:43Yes, and perhaps why, and what their life was like
0:17:43 > 0:17:45before they left, if there's any way?
0:17:45 > 0:17:48OK, let's look at the Poor Law Union minute books
0:17:48 > 0:17:51for the year preceding, just in and around maybe June, July,
0:17:51 > 0:17:54when we would expect them to actually leave Ireland.
0:17:54 > 0:17:57- OK.- If that's OK. So you take a seat here.
0:17:57 > 0:18:00And...what we're going to look at,
0:18:00 > 0:18:02the minute book for 1854.
0:18:02 > 0:18:06I'm shocked, Mario, that this paper even exists.
0:18:06 > 0:18:08This is the actual paper, right?
0:18:08 > 0:18:12These are the original minute books of the poor law union from,
0:18:12 > 0:18:15as we're looking at here, this is in June of 1854.
0:18:15 > 0:18:17And the original handwriting
0:18:17 > 0:18:19of the people who had actually
0:18:19 > 0:18:22minuted the meetings of the Poor Law Union.
0:18:22 > 0:18:25And these are the only records that could shed that sort of light
0:18:25 > 0:18:27on your family's history.
0:18:27 > 0:18:29These people, if they're shown in these minutes,
0:18:29 > 0:18:31would actually be within the workhouse.
0:18:31 > 0:18:34Now, I'm sorry for my ignorance, but the workhouse was a place
0:18:34 > 0:18:37where people lived who were not currently working?
0:18:37 > 0:18:39Is that? The workhouse was what?
0:18:39 > 0:18:42It was basically for the poorest of the poor.
0:18:42 > 0:18:45The people who had no other recourse to work
0:18:45 > 0:18:47or to any kind of home comforts.
0:18:47 > 0:18:49And they would live there?
0:18:49 > 0:18:52They would live there until such a stage that they could request leave.
0:18:52 > 0:18:55So their life at that particular time
0:18:55 > 0:18:57is really, really low.
0:18:57 > 0:19:01And this is certainly at the height of the famine,
0:19:01 > 0:19:03which is ravaging Ireland.
0:19:03 > 0:19:06And this is the place where they can find food
0:19:06 > 0:19:09and some sort of comfort.
0:19:09 > 0:19:11It's almost the last stop for them.
0:19:11 > 0:19:12It really is.
0:19:12 > 0:19:16We're gonna start with June of 1854.
0:19:16 > 0:19:22What we're looking for are the actual handwritten minutes of the meetings.
0:19:26 > 0:19:29There is the name, right there. "Andrew Murtagh."
0:19:29 > 0:19:35It was Andrew, Andrew Murtagh, his wife, and four children.
0:19:35 > 0:19:38And this would mean that they did live...in the workhouse?
0:19:38 > 0:19:40Yeah.
0:19:40 > 0:19:44To qualify for emigration, they would be at least a year,
0:19:44 > 0:19:45and possibly even more.
0:19:45 > 0:19:48And this is the reasoning behind their choice to go.
0:19:48 > 0:19:50Wow.
0:19:50 > 0:19:53To survive the workhouse system
0:19:53 > 0:19:59and these difficult years, in itself, was a huge accomplishment.
0:19:59 > 0:20:05"Proposed by Mr McDonald, and seconded by Mr Wolff,
0:20:05 > 0:20:09"that Andrew Murtagh, his wife, and four children
0:20:09 > 0:20:12"be sent immediately to Canada."
0:20:12 > 0:20:14Wow.
0:20:14 > 0:20:18McDonald and Wolff are on the board which managed this workhouse
0:20:18 > 0:20:19and workhouse district.
0:20:19 > 0:20:23They people with the power are this board of guardians
0:20:23 > 0:20:25and they are the people who decide
0:20:25 > 0:20:28- on the people who are going to emigrate.- Mm.
0:20:28 > 0:20:32It is George Wolff who proposes that those people
0:20:32 > 0:20:35be helped or assisted to emigrate to Canada.
0:20:35 > 0:20:37So this is the proof that they went there.
0:20:39 > 0:20:41Do you think they must have known the family?
0:20:41 > 0:20:46There's a lot that we don't know about it, obviously.
0:20:46 > 0:20:51But it's certainly... there's a feeling that it's well-intentioned.
0:20:51 > 0:20:54Maybe they're concerned with their particular plight,
0:20:54 > 0:20:58the condition that this man, his wife, and four small children,
0:20:58 > 0:21:01who obviously say that they want to go.
0:21:03 > 0:21:06I didn't know about my mother's family cos she died when I was ten.
0:21:06 > 0:21:09And so all of this is sort of new information.
0:21:09 > 0:21:12It's really overwhelming to, er,
0:21:12 > 0:21:19to imagine and to sort of incorporate into who I view myself as as a 48-year-old woman today.
0:21:19 > 0:21:22Yeah, but it's the ultimate great story
0:21:22 > 0:21:24of coming from these difficult, really horrendous times...
0:21:24 > 0:21:26Yes!
0:21:26 > 0:21:31- To a new country.- Yeah. - And actually making good.
0:21:31 > 0:21:35Which...obviously has happened.
0:21:35 > 0:21:37Yes, it has, I think.
0:21:37 > 0:21:40Not just me, but all my siblings are, you know, knock wood,
0:21:40 > 0:21:42very successful at what they do.
0:21:42 > 0:21:47And, you know, when you think of the death and the suffering and...
0:21:47 > 0:21:51it's really, um, it's very overwhelming.
0:21:51 > 0:21:55I always have felt... that my life was blessed.
0:21:55 > 0:21:59And, er, if the McDonald and the Wolff family
0:21:59 > 0:22:04hadn't sponsored Andrew and Ann, I would not be here, literally.
0:22:04 > 0:22:05It would not be me.
0:22:05 > 0:22:10There may be a descendent of theirs doing something else,
0:22:10 > 0:22:11but it wouldn't be me.
0:22:11 > 0:22:16And, er...that's pretty intense... to think about.
0:22:24 > 0:22:26To get a sense of the kind of conditions
0:22:26 > 0:22:30her ancestors were faced with before they emigrated to Canada,
0:22:30 > 0:22:33Rosie is visiting the site of one of the last standing workhouses -
0:22:33 > 0:22:37similar to the one where the Murtaghs lived with their children.
0:22:45 > 0:22:47Wow.
0:22:47 > 0:22:51Doesn't look like I thought it would look.
0:22:51 > 0:22:54I thought it would be smaller. It's huge.
0:22:54 > 0:22:57To think how many people were in there, families and...
0:22:57 > 0:22:59Definitely creepy.
0:23:01 > 0:23:03Hello.
0:23:03 > 0:23:05Rosie is meeting historian Gerry Moran
0:23:05 > 0:23:08to find out about the living conditions her family endured.
0:23:08 > 0:23:10So when a family arrived,
0:23:10 > 0:23:13like my great-grandfather and his wife and four children,
0:23:13 > 0:23:14what was the procedure?
0:23:14 > 0:23:17You would get a number? You would get a...what happened?
0:23:17 > 0:23:21As they came to the door here, the segregation would start.
0:23:21 > 0:23:23The males go into the right-hand side,
0:23:23 > 0:23:26the females go to the left-hand side.
0:23:26 > 0:23:29Boys and girls from ages of two up to 15,
0:23:29 > 0:23:31were kept... were segregated away.
0:23:31 > 0:23:34Never saw their parents again,
0:23:34 > 0:23:35after the, er, until...
0:23:35 > 0:23:39That's horrifying. Horrifying. A two-year-old baby.
0:23:39 > 0:23:44- A two-year-old baby would have been taken off the mother.- Horrifying.
0:23:44 > 0:23:49OK, if we head, um, inside, we can take a look inside.
0:23:49 > 0:23:53- I'll follow you.- OK. - Since I'm mildly scared.- Yeah.
0:23:53 > 0:23:56I don't know if I necessarily believe in ghosts,
0:23:56 > 0:23:59- but I definitely tell you you can feel something.- Yes.
0:24:02 > 0:24:04And inside here, you have the dormitories.
0:24:04 > 0:24:08You could have had anything from... maybe 40, 50, sort of...
0:24:08 > 0:24:11Just a bed after bed, after bed, after bed.
0:24:11 > 0:24:13- After bed.- Bunks?
0:24:13 > 0:24:16It was just pure mattresses. Straw mattresses.
0:24:16 > 0:24:17- On the floor?- On the floor.
0:24:17 > 0:24:22We also know, from some of the, er...the evidence
0:24:22 > 0:24:26- that you could have had up to four people in the one bed.- Mm.
0:24:26 > 0:24:30Now, the problem that that created was it led to disease.
0:24:30 > 0:24:31Yeah, illness.
0:24:31 > 0:24:34And illness, yes. Being carried very, very quickly.
0:24:34 > 0:24:36When you have cholera or typhoid,
0:24:36 > 0:24:39your total may be up to ten people a day dying.
0:24:39 > 0:24:42Mm. Wow.
0:24:42 > 0:24:46It does remind you of a concentration camp.
0:24:46 > 0:24:50It has a certain feel of that to it, definitely.
0:24:50 > 0:24:54We're moving up now into the-the attic.
0:24:54 > 0:24:57- And this would be...- It's quite cold up here. It's noticeably colder.
0:24:57 > 0:25:01Very, very cold. Yeah, this is where many of the children...
0:25:01 > 0:25:02sort of, would have been kept.
0:25:02 > 0:25:04Yeah, so we're in the male side.
0:25:04 > 0:25:07So this is boys between the ages of two and 15...
0:25:07 > 0:25:08- Oh, my lord! - ..would have been here.
0:25:08 > 0:25:11Really horrifying.
0:25:11 > 0:25:14The entire nation went through a crisis.
0:25:14 > 0:25:17There was a lot of death. A lot of people.
0:25:19 > 0:25:23My great-great0grandfather was here.
0:25:23 > 0:25:25With his wife and four children.
0:25:25 > 0:25:28Boy!
0:25:28 > 0:25:30This is creepy.
0:25:30 > 0:25:32And sad.
0:25:32 > 0:25:36Overwhelmingly sad. Like, literally have a stomach ache kind of...
0:25:36 > 0:25:38cos you can visualise it.
0:25:40 > 0:25:43Now get me the hell out of here!
0:25:44 > 0:25:47Gerry, your knowledge is invaluable,
0:25:47 > 0:25:51- and I appreciate you taking your time to show me this.- My pleasure.
0:25:51 > 0:25:54Bye-bye. Best to you.
0:25:54 > 0:25:57It's sad. It's really sad.
0:25:57 > 0:26:00To actually know, you know, that your own relatives, er...
0:26:00 > 0:26:05suffered in that kind of way is pretty overwhelming for me.
0:26:07 > 0:26:11You know, I only knew one thing. I had a mother who died.
0:26:11 > 0:26:15That's all I knew. And that felt... felt like...
0:26:19 > 0:26:23..an unliveable tragedy. It felt like an unbearable tragedy.
0:26:23 > 0:26:28But now, you know, I think to myself...
0:26:28 > 0:26:31her life existed because of, you know,
0:26:31 > 0:26:34the suffering and pain that...
0:26:34 > 0:26:38I don't know. It doesn't diminish my own suffering
0:26:38 > 0:26:43but it's not any longer the focal point of my existence.
0:26:43 > 0:26:46I think that's a gift.
0:26:51 > 0:26:54This experience has been life-changing for me.
0:26:54 > 0:26:56And I couldn't imagine coming to Ireland
0:26:56 > 0:26:58without sharing my family's story
0:26:58 > 0:27:01with the person who helped me start this journey.
0:27:01 > 0:27:03Here he is.
0:27:06 > 0:27:09- Well, hello!- Hello.- Welcome home!
0:27:09 > 0:27:12- How are you?- How was your flight? - Good, really good.
0:27:12 > 0:27:15- Really good?- Yeah.- Oh, boy, do I have a lot to tell you!
0:27:15 > 0:27:17- Found out a lot?- Found out a lot.
0:27:17 > 0:27:20- You ready to have a pint?- Sure.- Sure.
0:27:20 > 0:27:24- Let's go find a pub cos it's the coldest day in the history of the country.- OK.
0:27:24 > 0:27:27- All right.- Do you have jetlag? - Not really.- No?
0:27:27 > 0:27:31- Wait till you find out what I found out.- Oh, really?
0:27:31 > 0:27:33I really can't wait to tell my children the story
0:27:33 > 0:27:36about...the fragility of life
0:27:36 > 0:27:40and the impermanence that we all live with.
0:27:40 > 0:27:43You know, nothing is guaranteed.
0:27:43 > 0:27:45- It's amazing.- It really is.
0:27:45 > 0:27:47'The fact is that the Murtaghs are, you know,'
0:27:47 > 0:27:52alive and well, er, right today, inside of me.
0:27:52 > 0:27:55And we all have the choice
0:27:55 > 0:27:59to focus on the horror or the redemption.
0:27:59 > 0:28:02And the gift is to focus on the redemption.
0:28:06 > 0:28:08Murtagh's Corner. Hey, do you think
0:28:08 > 0:28:11- one of our relatives owned this place, Ed?- Sure.
0:28:13 > 0:28:17captioning by Brian at Captionmax www.Captionmax.com
0:28:17 > 0:28:19E-mail subtitling@bbc.co.uk