Minnie Driver

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0:00:08 > 0:00:11Over the last 15 years,

0:00:11 > 0:00:16Minnie Driver has become one of Britain's best known Hollywood actresses.

0:00:16 > 0:00:19Born in London in 1970, she made her breakthrough

0:00:19 > 0:00:22with films like Good Will Hunting, in the late '90s.

0:00:26 > 0:00:30Now 43, she lives in Los Angeles as a single mother

0:00:30 > 0:00:32with her four-year-old son, Henry.

0:00:38 > 0:00:43Having a baby obviously changes everything

0:00:43 > 0:00:50and Henry made me want to connect with who I really am, I suppose.

0:00:53 > 0:00:59My dad died a year and three months after Henry was born,

0:00:59 > 0:01:03and I'm so grateful that they had

0:01:03 > 0:01:06even a little amount of time together

0:01:06 > 0:01:09and...Dad just delighted in Henry.

0:01:13 > 0:01:16My parents met in around 1962

0:01:16 > 0:01:19and they were together for 13 years.

0:01:19 > 0:01:21They broke up when I was six

0:01:21 > 0:01:26and during that entire time, he, my dad was married to somebody else

0:01:26 > 0:01:27and had another family.

0:01:27 > 0:01:32I didn't know they weren't married until I was about 12 or 13.

0:01:35 > 0:01:37My dad lived, I think, a very split life,

0:01:37 > 0:01:41we just did not talk about where he came from.

0:01:41 > 0:01:45He spoke very succinctly about his mum and his dad.

0:01:45 > 0:01:48I never met either of my grandparents.

0:01:48 > 0:01:52I never saw even a photograph of them together

0:01:52 > 0:01:55and I always have wondered what they looked like.

0:01:55 > 0:02:01'I want Henry to have a different experience than I had.'

0:02:01 > 0:02:04Where I come from, there are these big gaps

0:02:04 > 0:02:07and I would like to fill those gaps for him.

0:02:07 > 0:02:10'I think it's powerful knowing where you come from.'

0:02:48 > 0:02:51Minnie has decided to find out who her father, Ronnie,

0:02:51 > 0:02:54really was and where he came from.

0:02:56 > 0:02:58While he never talked to her about his background,

0:02:58 > 0:03:02she does have one important document about his service with the RAF

0:03:02 > 0:03:04during World War II.

0:03:04 > 0:03:07This book was written in 1942 and a friend of ours,

0:03:07 > 0:03:12quite randomly, was at a jumble sale in Kent and found it.

0:03:12 > 0:03:17And it... In it is a story about my father

0:03:17 > 0:03:19and a battle in which he fought

0:03:19 > 0:03:21and I wanted to go to my mum's

0:03:21 > 0:03:24and to see if he'd ever talked to her about it.

0:03:28 > 0:03:31Minnie's mother, Gaynor, lives in west London.

0:03:31 > 0:03:33- Hello.- Darling.

0:03:34 > 0:03:37She's always eager for news of her grandson, Henry.

0:03:39 > 0:03:41Look, kickboxing with uncle Matthew.

0:03:41 > 0:03:43Oh, I see. Oh, my.

0:03:43 > 0:03:47- Look, and Matthew was holding the gloves.- Heavens.

0:03:47 > 0:03:49And then, that was them, look.

0:03:49 > 0:03:51Oh, look at him.

0:03:51 > 0:03:53- He's quite a personality, isn't he? - So cute, isn't he?

0:03:53 > 0:03:55Where does he get those blue eyes?

0:03:55 > 0:03:58I know, well, you know, they run in the family.

0:03:58 > 0:04:01- Look at that face.- Dad had one. - I know Dad did have one.

0:04:01 > 0:04:03He had one brown and one blue.

0:04:03 > 0:04:05THEY CHUCKLE

0:04:05 > 0:04:08I found some old pictures, which are quite interesting.

0:04:08 > 0:04:11- I mean, looking at them, it's so weird.- I remember that album.

0:04:11 > 0:04:14That's staying in, erm, Barbados.

0:04:14 > 0:04:16God, I haven't seen that.

0:04:16 > 0:04:19- That's a friend's house, where we stayed.- He's so handsome.

0:04:19 > 0:04:21- The playboy there, doesn't he? - He's such a gangster!

0:04:21 > 0:04:23- His Ray-Bans.- Well, he is.

0:04:23 > 0:04:25I love seeing the two of you together,

0:04:25 > 0:04:29- I don't have any pictures of you together.- I know.

0:04:29 > 0:04:31Did it bother you that he was married?

0:04:31 > 0:04:34Well, yes, because every day, we had,

0:04:34 > 0:04:36"You are the love of my life,

0:04:36 > 0:04:39"we are going to be together, it will all be fine."

0:04:39 > 0:04:41I mean, it's the classic thing of the married man

0:04:41 > 0:04:44telling the girlfriend it's all going to be all right

0:04:44 > 0:04:47and just hang around. So I hung around for years.

0:04:47 > 0:04:50Did you get the impression that he was hiding something or did you...?

0:04:50 > 0:04:53Absolutely, but it wasn't anything I wanted to dig out,

0:04:53 > 0:04:56because I could see it meant a lot to him to keep it hidden.

0:04:56 > 0:04:59You don't usually, when you go out with somebody,

0:04:59 > 0:05:03- you don't start quizzing them about where they were born and where they come from.- I do.

0:05:03 > 0:05:05But then, I'm unmarried at 43.

0:05:06 > 0:05:08Go on, carry on.

0:05:08 > 0:05:11Well, I don't know, it was just... It just didn't seem too appropriate

0:05:11 > 0:05:14to dig around in his past and I could see immediately he clammed up.

0:05:14 > 0:05:18I've got his birth certificate, got it in my bag.

0:05:19 > 0:05:20Yeah.

0:05:24 > 0:05:26So he was Welsh,

0:05:26 > 0:05:29born in Swansea, 1921.

0:05:29 > 0:05:32Charles Ronald, I wonder why he's called Ronnie and not Charles?

0:05:32 > 0:05:34Oh, cos his dad was called Charles.

0:05:34 > 0:05:38His dad was Charles Edmund Driver. Kelley, mother.

0:05:38 > 0:05:42- So she was Mary Jessica Kelley.- Oh!

0:05:42 > 0:05:44Wait a minute, Charles Edmund Driver, father.

0:05:44 > 0:05:48Kelley, mother, so they weren't, they weren't married.

0:05:48 > 0:05:51I think we're keeping up the family tradition, look,

0:05:51 > 0:05:55Charles Edmund Driver, father. Kelley, mother.

0:05:55 > 0:05:57That's very interesting then.

0:05:57 > 0:06:00So did you know much about his, about the Drivers,

0:06:00 > 0:06:03- about his family?- Very, very little.

0:06:03 > 0:06:06He did talk a little bit about the war,

0:06:06 > 0:06:08but there was never a punch line

0:06:08 > 0:06:11and you never really knew what really happened.

0:06:11 > 0:06:13Well, hold on, let's look in here.

0:06:13 > 0:06:15That's a war hero book.

0:06:15 > 0:06:17Yeah, there he is, there he is, look, with his funny tooth.

0:06:17 > 0:06:22Oh! "Aircraftman C R Driver, who fought against overwhelming odds

0:06:22 > 0:06:26"in the great air battle over Heligoland Bight.

0:06:26 > 0:06:30"His superb courage won the second Distinguished Flying Medal

0:06:30 > 0:06:31"to be awarded during the war."

0:06:31 > 0:06:34Did he tell you anything about that?

0:06:34 > 0:06:36I mean, this is like a story

0:06:36 > 0:06:40- that I, I can't, I can't believe he wouldn't tell.- Well...

0:06:40 > 0:06:44I think because he felt that all acts of bravery

0:06:44 > 0:06:47- were equal to his own and... - Did you ever see a medal?

0:06:47 > 0:06:51He actually told me that he'd thrown the medal in the Thames.

0:06:52 > 0:06:54- You're kidding?- Hm.

0:06:54 > 0:06:56It's a strange thing to do, yeah.

0:06:56 > 0:06:58- That's a really strange thing to do. - Hm.

0:06:58 > 0:07:00Why would he do that?

0:07:00 > 0:07:04Well, he said he didn't deserve it, I think, that was the bottom line.

0:07:10 > 0:07:15'I am astonished at how little my mum knew about my dad'

0:07:15 > 0:07:19and this was the great love of her life.

0:07:19 > 0:07:22Just the idea that someone can send a signal so strongly

0:07:22 > 0:07:26that they do not want to talk about who they are.

0:07:30 > 0:07:32'And I'm really interested in this medal

0:07:32 > 0:07:35'that Mum said Dad threw into the Thames.'

0:07:49 > 0:07:52Minnie's father was awarded the Distinguished Flying Medal

0:07:52 > 0:07:55after the Second World War air battle of Heligoland Bight.

0:07:58 > 0:08:01On 18th December 1939,

0:08:01 > 0:08:0524 Wellingtons, from three different RAF squadrons,

0:08:05 > 0:08:07left airfields in East Anglia

0:08:07 > 0:08:10on one of the first major bombing raids of the war.

0:08:14 > 0:08:17Ronnie Driver was just 18 years old

0:08:17 > 0:08:20when he and 128 other British airmen

0:08:20 > 0:08:22launched their attack on the German naval base

0:08:22 > 0:08:25at Wilhelmshaven, across the North Sea.

0:08:28 > 0:08:31They flew in broad daylight, without a fighter escort,

0:08:31 > 0:08:33in the belief that the Wellington,

0:08:33 > 0:08:36with its electrically-operated machine-gun turrets,

0:08:36 > 0:08:38would always get through to its target,

0:08:38 > 0:08:41no matter what opposition it faced.

0:08:41 > 0:08:45It was a catastrophic misjudgment by the RAF.

0:08:47 > 0:08:50Minnie has come to Brooklands Museum, in Surrey,

0:08:50 > 0:08:53to meet historian Robin Holmes.

0:08:53 > 0:08:55- Hi, Robin.- Good morning, Minnie.

0:08:55 > 0:08:58- Good morning. - Very nice to meet you.

0:08:58 > 0:09:01- Nice to meet you.- Very nice to meet you. Please.- OK, great.

0:09:01 > 0:09:06Robin and his team spent eight years salvaging, and partially restoring,

0:09:06 > 0:09:08the only surviving aircraft

0:09:08 > 0:09:11to have taken part in the Battle of Heligoland Bight.

0:09:11 > 0:09:13It's called a Wellington bomber.

0:09:13 > 0:09:14That, the big one there?

0:09:14 > 0:09:18Your father flew in an absolutely identical plane to that one,

0:09:18 > 0:09:21the biggest raid in history up till then.

0:09:21 > 0:09:23Very beginning of the war.

0:09:23 > 0:09:25He was in a very prominent position.

0:09:25 > 0:09:29- He was right at the very front of it in the gun turret.- Wow!

0:09:32 > 0:09:36The Wellingtons reached the German naval base unopposed

0:09:36 > 0:09:38and launched their attack.

0:09:41 > 0:09:45This is a photograph that was taken on the raid

0:09:45 > 0:09:48as your father flew across the harbour.

0:09:48 > 0:09:52This aircraft here dropped three 500-pound bombs

0:09:52 > 0:09:55- on these German ships.- OK.

0:09:55 > 0:09:58And another plane, but we don't know which one it was,

0:09:58 > 0:10:00it could have been your father's plane,

0:10:00 > 0:10:02also dropped bombs on those ships.

0:10:02 > 0:10:08- And then, that's when the Luftwaffe...- Oh, my goodness. - ..hit them like a ton of bricks.

0:10:08 > 0:10:12- Did they know what was coming at them?- Not really, no.

0:10:12 > 0:10:16The Germans were using their new Messerschmitts...

0:10:16 > 0:10:20That's the BF 109D, very fast.

0:10:20 > 0:10:23- Very fast, deadly.- 350 miles an hour.

0:10:23 > 0:10:27That was the very latest fighter that the Germans had.

0:10:27 > 0:10:31The bombers were defending themselves with these.

0:10:31 > 0:10:34That's a 303 rifle bullet

0:10:34 > 0:10:38and that's what your father was defending the aircraft with,

0:10:38 > 0:10:41what the Germans were attacking them with were these.

0:10:41 > 0:10:43Oh!

0:10:44 > 0:10:47Now, that's a 20-millimetre cannon shell.

0:10:47 > 0:10:49And the German fighters were equipped with those,

0:10:49 > 0:10:51so you can see the disparity there.

0:10:51 > 0:10:52This is their ammunition

0:10:52 > 0:10:55- and this is our ammunition?- Yes.

0:10:55 > 0:10:58Actually, there was an account of this whole battle

0:10:58 > 0:11:03and that was published at the time for sixpence.

0:11:03 > 0:11:06- Epics Of The RAF.- Yes.

0:11:07 > 0:11:09There we go.

0:11:09 > 0:11:11"Another Wellington forced out of its formation

0:11:11 > 0:11:14"was swooped on by a swarm of German fighters,

0:11:14 > 0:11:18"which swept over it continuously spraying it with machine-gun fire.

0:11:18 > 0:11:22"The bottom of the front gun turret had been blown away

0:11:22 > 0:11:24"and the turret set on fire.

0:11:24 > 0:11:27"Later I heard from the lips of the pilot himself

0:11:27 > 0:11:30"the story of that nightmare journey home.

0:11:30 > 0:11:33"'My gunner was very prompt with the fire

0:11:33 > 0:11:35"'and beat it out with his gloved hands.'" That's Dad!

0:11:35 > 0:11:37That's your father, yes.

0:11:37 > 0:11:41"'But for him, the aircraft would have been well alight in a few seconds.

0:11:41 > 0:11:44"'His quick action saved our lives.'"

0:11:52 > 0:11:55And for his actions he got the DFM,

0:11:55 > 0:11:58a medal, which he truly deserved.

0:12:08 > 0:12:11- I've got to read this next bit, cos it's good.- Please.

0:12:11 > 0:12:14"'When the bottom of the gun turret was blown away, the gunner found

0:12:14 > 0:12:18"'that his leg was dangling in the air over the water,

0:12:18 > 0:12:20"'but his huddled position kept him

0:12:20 > 0:12:23"'from falling through the hole into the sea.'"

0:12:23 > 0:12:25Oh, that's probably because he was so big as well.

0:12:25 > 0:12:28- Will you show me where the...erm? - Yes.

0:12:29 > 0:12:30So.

0:12:31 > 0:12:33- None of this was here?- No.

0:12:35 > 0:12:36This was all shot away.

0:12:36 > 0:12:39So this is what they're saying where his leg was dangling down?

0:12:39 > 0:12:42That's right, all the Perspex had been shot away from the turret.

0:12:42 > 0:12:45I think it would be rather nice

0:12:45 > 0:12:49if you were to see where your father actually sat in the plane.

0:12:49 > 0:12:52- Yeah.- Right. Can you manage?- Yeah.

0:12:54 > 0:12:56Oh. Oh, my God.

0:12:56 > 0:13:00Now, if you go up and stand on the little platform.

0:13:02 > 0:13:03So stand?

0:13:03 > 0:13:05Up there. OK.

0:13:05 > 0:13:06Holy cow!

0:13:06 > 0:13:09Can you look forward?

0:13:09 > 0:13:13- Oh, my God.- Look forward into the gun turret, can you get along?

0:13:13 > 0:13:14Yeah.

0:13:16 > 0:13:17You've got to be kidding me.

0:13:17 > 0:13:20- No.- My dad was huge, I can't believe...

0:13:20 > 0:13:24And he had all his flying gear on as well, cos it was very, very cold.

0:13:31 > 0:13:34I can't believe how tiny it is in there.

0:13:34 > 0:13:37How you're completely and utterly unprotected.

0:13:37 > 0:13:40- Nothing between you... - Nothing protecting you except...

0:13:40 > 0:13:44Nothing between you apart from Perspex.

0:13:44 > 0:13:49His very best friend was called Lilley, Aircraftsman Lilley,

0:13:49 > 0:13:51and he was in the rear gun turret,

0:13:51 > 0:13:54and sadly, he did not survive the battle.

0:13:54 > 0:13:56Your dad actually lost his best friend

0:13:56 > 0:13:59on the Battle of Heligoland Bight.

0:14:07 > 0:14:10Ronnie Driver and his best friend, Walter Lilley,

0:14:10 > 0:14:13both belonged to RAF Nine Squadron.

0:14:13 > 0:14:15While most of their contemporaries have passed away,

0:14:15 > 0:14:19one man who served alongside them is still alive.

0:14:19 > 0:14:23Minnie, I would like to introduce Mr Derek Alloway.

0:14:24 > 0:14:26Hello.

0:14:26 > 0:14:28- Hello, Minnie.- Hello, Derek.

0:14:28 > 0:14:30Very proud to meet you.

0:14:30 > 0:14:35Now 93, Derek Alloway is the last surviving RAF veteran

0:14:35 > 0:14:38to have been involved in the Battle of Heligoland Bight,

0:14:38 > 0:14:41and remembers Ronnie Driver well.

0:14:41 > 0:14:44So how exactly did you know my dad?

0:14:44 > 0:14:47Ronnie used to be a mechanic working like I was working,

0:14:47 > 0:14:49looking after the aircraft.

0:14:49 > 0:14:54I think he joined the...the squadron just...a little time after me.

0:14:54 > 0:14:58We did see each other quite a bit roundabout in the hangar

0:14:58 > 0:15:02or in the NAAFI or in the Honiton Fox having a little drinky-drink.

0:15:02 > 0:15:05Having a little drinky-drink, that doesn't surprise me.

0:15:05 > 0:15:07Was he a happy young fellow?

0:15:07 > 0:15:09He was very happy, very happy, he was one of us, one of us.

0:15:09 > 0:15:13Were you there on the day of the Battle of Heligoland, that...?

0:15:13 > 0:15:17- I was there on the day. - That December.- I was there on the day when he took off.

0:15:17 > 0:15:20I don't suppose you remember how he was feeling on that morning, do you?

0:15:20 > 0:15:24The last time I saw him, he was taking stuff from his pocket,

0:15:24 > 0:15:28giving them to a, a friend of his, like his personal stuff.

0:15:28 > 0:15:30- Yeah.- You know cos the, er...

0:15:30 > 0:15:32- You didn't know if you were coming back?- That's right.

0:15:32 > 0:15:35That's when I, when I last really saw him.

0:15:35 > 0:15:38And it wasn't until the next morning that we found out

0:15:38 > 0:15:43that Ronnie was one of the aircraft what had ditched in the North Sea.

0:15:43 > 0:15:46You might care to read the official report

0:15:46 > 0:15:49of what actually happened to his aircraft.

0:15:52 > 0:15:56"Aircraftman Driver subsequently succeeded in launching the dinghy

0:15:56 > 0:15:59"and assisted in saving the remainder of the crew,

0:15:59 > 0:16:01"some of whom were wounded.

0:16:01 > 0:16:04"It was largely due to his exertions

0:16:04 > 0:16:07"that the crew of this aircraft were brought to safety."

0:16:08 > 0:16:10That's right, that's right.

0:16:10 > 0:16:13That is right, he had to get the dinghy first,

0:16:13 > 0:16:16he made sure that the dinghy was out

0:16:16 > 0:16:19and they got the dinghy out and then, he got the crew,

0:16:19 > 0:16:22eventually got all the crew out except the, his friend,

0:16:22 > 0:16:26Lilley, who was, he was dead, he was in the back of the aircraft.

0:16:26 > 0:16:29They, they got him out of the turret, laid him on the floor

0:16:29 > 0:16:32and poor Lilley went down with the airplane.

0:16:32 > 0:16:34That was it.

0:16:34 > 0:16:36'Some of the RAF airmen

0:16:36 > 0:16:39'who took part in the recent engagement over Heligoland Bight

0:16:39 > 0:16:41'are here seen at their base. There's only...'

0:16:41 > 0:16:43Walter Lilley was one of 61 airmen

0:16:43 > 0:16:46who failed to return from the battle -

0:16:46 > 0:16:48almost half of those who set out.

0:16:48 > 0:16:51The raid was a disaster for the RAF.

0:16:51 > 0:16:54Of the 24 Wellingtons that took off that morning,

0:16:54 > 0:16:5612 were lost in action.

0:16:56 > 0:16:59And like many survivors of Heligoland,

0:16:59 > 0:17:0318-year-old gunner Ronnie Driver had not returned unscathed.

0:17:07 > 0:17:09Did you see Dad again, did...?

0:17:09 > 0:17:11No, I never saw your dad again, no.

0:17:11 > 0:17:15I understood that a couple of crew were in hospital with their injuries

0:17:15 > 0:17:18and I think Ronnie was a bit shaken up and he had,

0:17:18 > 0:17:22he had a bit of a problem with his health after that for, for a bit.

0:17:22 > 0:17:24That's about all I can tell you, really.

0:17:24 > 0:17:29That's when I last saw Ronnie - that morning,

0:17:29 > 0:17:32when he took off on that particular mission.

0:17:36 > 0:17:38I've never met anyone in my life that knew my father

0:17:38 > 0:17:40when he was 18 years old.

0:17:40 > 0:17:42And to sort of hear, that's really who he was,

0:17:42 > 0:17:44he was a good bloke and a good friend.

0:17:46 > 0:17:48That's a really, really good feeling.

0:17:49 > 0:17:53It was quite shocking hearing that Dad was unwell

0:17:53 > 0:17:55at the end of that battle.

0:17:55 > 0:18:00And...I really want to know what happened to him next because...

0:18:02 > 0:18:04..that's, that's as much as I know.

0:18:15 > 0:18:17Minnie has come to the RAF Museum at Hendon,

0:18:17 > 0:18:20to see if she can discover what happened to her father

0:18:20 > 0:18:23after the Battle of Heligoland Bight.

0:18:23 > 0:18:25- Hello.- Hello.

0:18:25 > 0:18:28- Are you Peter?- I'm Peter, welcome to the Royal Air Force Museum.

0:18:28 > 0:18:30- Thank you.- Shall we go to the archive?- Yes.

0:18:30 > 0:18:33She's arranged to meet curator Peter Devitt,

0:18:33 > 0:18:36who has been researching RAF documents from that time.

0:18:37 > 0:18:41This is one of the original copies of...

0:18:41 > 0:18:44Air Ministry Bulletin number 324.

0:18:44 > 0:18:46And they're press releases.

0:18:46 > 0:18:49They're written by the Air Ministry and then they're given to the press to print.

0:18:49 > 0:18:53- You see several airmen had been decorated...- Yes.

0:18:53 > 0:18:56..for their part in the battle.

0:18:56 > 0:18:59And there you see a little bit about your father,

0:18:59 > 0:19:01but there's a long interview with him,

0:19:01 > 0:19:04and he's the only one in the battle, as far as we know,

0:19:04 > 0:19:06who was singled out in this way.

0:19:06 > 0:19:11"Aircraftman Driver began life in Swansea but he is not Welsh.

0:19:11 > 0:19:15- "His mother is Scottish and his father is a Yorkshireman."- Uh-huh.

0:19:15 > 0:19:18"He appears to have inherited the tough qualities

0:19:18 > 0:19:20"of both Scotland and Yorkshire.

0:19:20 > 0:19:24"His father is a wool buyer, and his occupation meant

0:19:24 > 0:19:27"that Drivers were seldom in one town for more than a few years."

0:19:27 > 0:19:29That's why he was born in Wales!

0:19:29 > 0:19:32"On leaving school, he became a clerk in his father's firm

0:19:32 > 0:19:34"hoping to learn the wool business."

0:19:34 > 0:19:36- There's a lot of information about his background, his roots.- Yeah!

0:19:36 > 0:19:39And he comes from very humble beginnings.

0:19:39 > 0:19:41But why would they do that?

0:19:41 > 0:19:44- They want to stress that he's ordinary, he's not a superman. - Right.

0:19:44 > 0:19:47So that they can encourage other ordinary young men and women.

0:19:47 > 0:19:48To be heroes.

0:19:48 > 0:19:50And also, maintain public confidence

0:19:50 > 0:19:53in the way the Royal Air Force is conducting the war.

0:19:53 > 0:19:56Get them to focus on the upside as opposed to the fact

0:19:56 > 0:20:00- that it was a fairly bloody defeat. - It is, exactly that.

0:20:00 > 0:20:02- Wow!- But it also...

0:20:02 > 0:20:04- appears on The Times.- Sunday Times.

0:20:04 > 0:20:08The Sunday Times, December 24th 1939.

0:20:08 > 0:20:10This is the national press now, you see,

0:20:10 > 0:20:12they're talking about a young gunner.

0:20:12 > 0:20:14"This young gunner expressed

0:20:14 > 0:20:17"the greatest admiration for his sergeant pilot.

0:20:17 > 0:20:20"'We shall never know how the pilot managed to control his aircraft

0:20:20 > 0:20:22"'through such difficulties,' he said."

0:20:22 > 0:20:26You can see he's very modest, he wants to talk about his pilot,

0:20:26 > 0:20:31- but his story is being, if you like, managed.- Right.

0:20:31 > 0:20:35As, as a means of turning this in, into a sort of a victory.

0:20:35 > 0:20:36Right, right.

0:20:36 > 0:20:42- He is now firmly established as a hero.- Right.

0:20:42 > 0:20:46What happened to him after the Battle of Heligoland?

0:20:46 > 0:20:50Well, if we look at his service record, you'll see...

0:20:50 > 0:20:53His home address - Stockton-on-Tees...

0:20:53 > 0:20:55- County Durham.- County Durham.

0:20:55 > 0:20:58And we know he went back there, because...

0:21:01 > 0:21:04..he appears in the local press.

0:21:04 > 0:21:06This is the Stockton and Teesside Weekly Herald,

0:21:06 > 0:21:09Saturday December 30th 1939.

0:21:09 > 0:21:11And there's a reference here to his mother.

0:21:11 > 0:21:13Oh, where?

0:21:13 > 0:21:16- Oh!- There she is, talking to your father.

0:21:20 > 0:21:23That is the first picture I have ever seen of my grandmother.

0:21:25 > 0:21:27Wow, look at that.

0:21:29 > 0:21:32"Air Gunner Charles R Driver, the Stockton RAF hero, photographed at his home.

0:21:32 > 0:21:35"He was showing his mother the gloves, which protected his hands

0:21:35 > 0:21:38"when he beat out the flames in the bomber during the Heligoland raid."

0:21:38 > 0:21:41So he's gone back home and he's in uniform,

0:21:41 > 0:21:43how long did he stay there?

0:21:43 > 0:21:46I mean what, was he discharged, was he, what was the...?

0:21:46 > 0:21:48If we return to his service record...

0:21:50 > 0:21:55..you'll see he receives the medal in March 1940.

0:21:56 > 0:22:00And then, the next entry we have is this.

0:22:02 > 0:22:04What is that?

0:22:04 > 0:22:06- That's the discharge. - Discharged.

0:22:06 > 0:22:09From the RAF Hospital at Matlock.

0:22:09 > 0:22:11Oh, no.

0:22:13 > 0:22:16So what is the RAF Hospital at Matlock?

0:22:16 > 0:22:18It was a psychiatric hospital.

0:22:20 > 0:22:21Poor Dad.

0:22:23 > 0:22:25CRYING: Does it say how long he was there for?

0:22:25 > 0:22:28We just know he was, he was discharged.

0:22:28 > 0:22:29Well, that's good, he got out.

0:22:38 > 0:22:42I mean it, it reads like a movie script.

0:22:42 > 0:22:44You wouldn't believe it if you read,

0:22:44 > 0:22:48I mean, it would seem unbelievable what he did at 18.

0:22:49 > 0:22:54Being shot down, putting out a fire, saving his pilot.

0:22:54 > 0:22:58That then being used as propaganda

0:22:58 > 0:23:02and how, how it must have looked to his friends, to other aircraftman.

0:23:02 > 0:23:04He was somehow being singled out.

0:23:04 > 0:23:08I know what it's like to be singled out when you've asked for it,

0:23:08 > 0:23:13and to have a lot of media attention when you've asked for it.

0:23:13 > 0:23:16When you haven't asked for it, erm...

0:23:18 > 0:23:21..and you are not used to it

0:23:21 > 0:23:25and you don't know what to do with it, erm...

0:23:25 > 0:23:31I, I can only, I'm not surprised he, he ended up in hospital.

0:23:43 > 0:23:46Minnie has decided to travel north, to Derbyshire,

0:23:46 > 0:23:48where her father was sent for treatment

0:23:48 > 0:23:51following the Battle of Heligoland Bight.

0:23:51 > 0:23:54You lionise your parents, you know,

0:23:54 > 0:23:59and I think seeing the frailty and the fragility,

0:23:59 > 0:24:02being reminded of that, it's not a bad thing at all.

0:24:02 > 0:24:04That's why I couldn't sleep the other night,

0:24:04 > 0:24:07cos I was thinking about being young and being overwhelmed.

0:24:07 > 0:24:09And what that does to you

0:24:09 > 0:24:12and when you don't have family around you to ground you and to help you.

0:24:12 > 0:24:15I've never known how to connect with that young part of my father

0:24:15 > 0:24:19and I feel very close to a part of him that I never knew.

0:24:26 > 0:24:31Ronnie Driver arrived in the Peak District town of Matlock in early 1940.

0:24:31 > 0:24:35He was treated at Rockside Hall, a former spa hotel,

0:24:35 > 0:24:39which the RAF had converted into a specialist psychiatric hospital.

0:24:42 > 0:24:45It is now a block of luxury flats.

0:24:48 > 0:24:50- Hello.- Hi.

0:24:50 > 0:24:53- Are you Edgar?- Yes.- Hello.- Very nice to meet you.- Nice to meet you.

0:24:53 > 0:24:55Welcome to Rockside Hall. Would you like...?

0:24:55 > 0:24:59Professor Edgar Jones is an expert in the study of military psychiatry

0:24:59 > 0:25:02and has been looking into Ronnie Driver's convalescence at Matlock.

0:25:02 > 0:25:06What kind of treatment would he have received here?

0:25:06 > 0:25:10Your father was given a diagnosis of anxiety state.

0:25:10 > 0:25:13So I think the treatment would have been very much some sedatives

0:25:13 > 0:25:16to help him sleep at night, because he probably had nightmares.

0:25:16 > 0:25:20A little bit of exercise in the grounds here,

0:25:20 > 0:25:24and general encouragement with the view that he would get better on his own,

0:25:24 > 0:25:28if he was left alone with time to recuperate.

0:25:28 > 0:25:31I don't think they really understood

0:25:31 > 0:25:34the effect of the traumatic experience

0:25:34 > 0:25:38on men like your father, what it did to their minds.

0:25:43 > 0:25:46Flying stress, as a result of air combat,

0:25:46 > 0:25:49was a condition that had been studied during World War I.

0:25:49 > 0:25:53But the RAF were unprepared for the psychological impact

0:25:53 > 0:25:58of the huge casualty rates suffered by bomber crews in World War II.

0:25:58 > 0:26:03Of the 125,000 airmen who served in Bomber Command during the war,

0:26:03 > 0:26:07more than 55,000 died in action.

0:26:07 > 0:26:14And surviving crew members suffered much higher rates of mental breakdown than expected.

0:26:14 > 0:26:17The intense bonds that formed between members of the same crew

0:26:17 > 0:26:20gave them determination, confidence,

0:26:20 > 0:26:23the ability to go on in extreme hazard.

0:26:23 > 0:26:25But it was a double-edged sword,

0:26:25 > 0:26:27because if one member of the crew was killed,

0:26:27 > 0:26:29it was devastating for the others.

0:26:29 > 0:26:32So Dad's best friend, who was the rear gunner,

0:26:32 > 0:26:35was killed during this battle.

0:26:35 > 0:26:39Would that have had a sort of, of an accelerated impact?

0:26:39 > 0:26:43If they did try to get Walter Lilley out of the rear gun turret,

0:26:43 > 0:26:45then your father would have seen his dead body,

0:26:45 > 0:26:49and we know from experience just how traumatic it is

0:26:49 > 0:26:52to see a corpse in such a situation.

0:26:53 > 0:26:56Had to know that you couldn't get him out.

0:26:56 > 0:26:58We found this document here,

0:26:58 > 0:27:01which tells us a little bit about Walter Lilley.

0:27:01 > 0:27:05"Leading Aircraftman Walter Lilley, late of Helena Street, Kippax,

0:27:05 > 0:27:09"was killed in action, it is assumed on the 18th of December.

0:27:09 > 0:27:12"He was home on leave recently,

0:27:12 > 0:27:16"and was a well-known ambulance man, respected by all who knew him.

0:27:16 > 0:27:20"He celebrated his 21st birthday anniversary in August."

0:27:23 > 0:27:25He was a very skilled air gunner

0:27:25 > 0:27:30and he's credited with two kills at the Battle of Heligoland Bight.

0:27:30 > 0:27:31Is he?

0:27:32 > 0:27:34Why wasn't he decorated also?

0:27:35 > 0:27:39Which may be a question that your father had asked himself.

0:27:45 > 0:27:50Did you know what happened to my father after he left Matlock?

0:27:50 > 0:27:54If we come down here to December 1940,

0:27:54 > 0:27:59which is almost the anniversary of the Battle of Heligoland Bight,

0:27:59 > 0:28:02you can see that he's in hospital again.

0:28:02 > 0:28:04He's discharged and he's in hospital again.

0:28:04 > 0:28:07He's been at RAF Littleport, which is near Ely,

0:28:07 > 0:28:10and that's another psychiatric unit.

0:28:10 > 0:28:14So it looks as though his treatment here at Matlock was incomplete.

0:28:14 > 0:28:18The interesting thing is he doesn't give up -

0:28:18 > 0:28:21in November 1943, he's commissioned

0:28:21 > 0:28:24as a Pilot Officer in the Royal Air Force.

0:28:24 > 0:28:25He's been promoted?

0:28:25 > 0:28:29So he's been recognised, he's been trusted with more responsibility.

0:28:29 > 0:28:35There's no sense that he's been flawed by his traumatic experience.

0:28:35 > 0:28:40In June 1944, he's promoted to Flying Officer

0:28:40 > 0:28:44and we've got a photograph of him, taken a few months after that,

0:28:44 > 0:28:49in September, here, where he's wearing his officer's uniform.

0:28:49 > 0:28:52My God, wow!

0:28:54 > 0:28:56He looks so lovely.

0:28:56 > 0:28:58I've never seen it,

0:28:58 > 0:29:00but this is my dad on his wedding day

0:29:00 > 0:29:03to Ann Wilshaw, who was his wife.

0:29:03 > 0:29:07They look so young and so sweet.

0:29:07 > 0:29:09It not only shows him getting married,

0:29:09 > 0:29:11but moving up in social status,

0:29:11 > 0:29:15because Ann Wilshaw's father was obviously Sir Edward Wilshaw...

0:29:15 > 0:29:18- Yeah.- ..who was the Chairman of Cable & Wireless.

0:29:18 > 0:29:20And it's interesting that in the picture you can see

0:29:20 > 0:29:22he's wearing his best uniform.

0:29:22 > 0:29:25But the thing that seems to be missing is his decoration,

0:29:25 > 0:29:28he's not wearing his Distinguished Flying Medal.

0:29:28 > 0:29:31Yeah. No medal.

0:29:35 > 0:29:39I just understand him so much better because of this.

0:29:39 > 0:29:45He had this extraordinary experience in the Battle of Heligoland Bight,

0:29:45 > 0:29:47and it almost broke him.

0:29:49 > 0:29:53He healed by going back and carrying on, he healed by continuing,

0:29:53 > 0:29:59by not being broken, and I see that's what drove him.

0:29:59 > 0:30:05And I really understand him throwing his medal into the river.

0:30:06 > 0:30:08I understand the significance,

0:30:08 > 0:30:13the symbolism of chucking it into a body of water, you know,

0:30:13 > 0:30:18that swallowed up his lovely friend and so many other men.

0:30:34 > 0:30:37Minnie never met her father's parents.

0:30:37 > 0:30:40And having seen a photograph of her grandmother for the first time,

0:30:40 > 0:30:44she's decided to travel north, to Stockton-on-Tees,

0:30:44 > 0:30:47where the Driver family were living during the war.

0:30:52 > 0:30:56It was pretty fantastic seeing a picture of my granny and my dad.

0:30:59 > 0:31:02But I've never seen a photograph of my grandfather.

0:31:04 > 0:31:08I remember my, my father said that he died quite young.

0:31:08 > 0:31:10That's all I ever heard about him.

0:31:14 > 0:31:18I'm very interested in the fact

0:31:18 > 0:31:22that, clearly, my grandparents weren't married,

0:31:22 > 0:31:25so I would love to know a bit more about him.

0:31:25 > 0:31:28I would love that for me and I would love that for my son.

0:31:35 > 0:31:37Minnie has come to the Family History Centre,

0:31:37 > 0:31:39at Stockton Central Library.

0:31:42 > 0:31:46Genealogist Eileen Butcher has agreed to help her find out more

0:31:46 > 0:31:48about her father's parents.

0:31:49 > 0:31:51I know they weren't married.

0:31:51 > 0:31:53- No, cos they've got different names. - Yes.- Yeah.

0:31:53 > 0:31:54But that would have been her,

0:31:54 > 0:31:57- McGregor would have been her maiden name, right?- That's right.

0:31:57 > 0:31:59- And Kelley, who...someone she was married to?- Yes.

0:31:59 > 0:32:01Before or previously or something.

0:32:01 > 0:32:04That's right and that's her maiden name and then, her married name.

0:32:04 > 0:32:07Right, what we're going to do is we're going to do a search on here

0:32:07 > 0:32:08to see if we can find a marriage.

0:32:08 > 0:32:11- Yeah.- Because they might have got married at a later date.

0:32:11 > 0:32:14- So if you put Charles Edmund in there.- OK.

0:32:17 > 0:32:20Where it says "Spouse", we'll put the surname of Kelley in there.

0:32:20 > 0:32:22OK.

0:32:22 > 0:32:26- And that will pick up the right marriage, if there is one.- OK.- OK.

0:32:28 > 0:32:31They did get married. In 1936.

0:32:31 > 0:32:35- It looks like it, yes.- Ah!

0:32:35 > 0:32:38So they weren't married when Dad was born in 1921,

0:32:38 > 0:32:42- but they were married in '36.- Hm.

0:32:42 > 0:32:46That would have been extraordinarily unusual and unconventional

0:32:46 > 0:32:48to not be married, to be having babies in 1921?

0:32:48 > 0:32:51- Yeah, pretty shameful, really. - Pretty shameful, huh?- Yeah.

0:32:51 > 0:32:54I don't mean to wash my dirty linen in Stockton-on-Tees Library.

0:32:54 > 0:32:56THEY CHUCKLE

0:32:56 > 0:32:58- Best place for it. - Sins of the father, et cetera.

0:32:58 > 0:33:01Well, I think we need to get the marriage certificate to actually...

0:33:01 > 0:33:04- To be able to...- ..to get some more information from it.

0:33:04 > 0:33:05So is there any way of getting that?

0:33:05 > 0:33:07- We can't get that online...- OK.

0:33:07 > 0:33:10- ..any, any further information, we'd have to order that...- Right.

0:33:10 > 0:33:13..from the Middlesbrough Registry Office

0:33:13 > 0:33:16- and that'll take a few days to get that.- OK.

0:33:16 > 0:33:19While Minnie waits for the marriage certificate,

0:33:19 > 0:33:23Eileen Butcher has offered to help her find out more about the Driver family.

0:33:23 > 0:33:25She's found a reference for Minnie's grandfather,

0:33:25 > 0:33:30Charles Edmund Driver, on the 1891 census,

0:33:30 > 0:33:32when he was 11 years old.

0:33:32 > 0:33:35I can't read any of these, I've got...oh, Charles E.

0:33:35 > 0:33:43So he was one of one, two, three, four, one of five children.

0:33:43 > 0:33:48So, can I find out who my relatives would be from this census?

0:33:48 > 0:33:51Cos I've never met any family from that side of the family.

0:33:51 > 0:33:52- Nothing at all?- Nothing.

0:33:52 > 0:33:55The best way to do that would be going from the youngest child,

0:33:55 > 0:33:59Maud, OK, who's five, and we'll see

0:33:59 > 0:34:01if she perhaps got married and had children,

0:34:01 > 0:34:03and whether any of those are alive.

0:34:06 > 0:34:13Maud Driver, er, born 1886, from Bradford.

0:34:13 > 0:34:16She married Fred Thistlethwaite.

0:34:16 > 0:34:17That's a good Yorkshire name.

0:34:17 > 0:34:19It really is.

0:34:19 > 0:34:20She was 19.

0:34:20 > 0:34:23He was 32!

0:34:23 > 0:34:26His ship came sailing in.

0:34:26 > 0:34:30So Fred Thistlethwaite and Maud Thistlethwaite

0:34:30 > 0:34:35and John Thistlethwaite and Dorothy Thistlethwaite.

0:34:36 > 0:34:42So Dorothy is two and John is five in 1911.

0:34:44 > 0:34:46Minnie is now one step away

0:34:46 > 0:34:50from tracing a living relative of her father for the first time.

0:34:50 > 0:34:53If her great-aunt Maud's youngest child, Dorothy,

0:34:53 > 0:34:55married and had children,

0:34:55 > 0:34:58then, they would be of the same generation as her.

0:34:59 > 0:35:03We can see exactly who she married by,

0:35:03 > 0:35:06if you click on "Find Spouse" at the bottom.

0:35:06 > 0:35:09Nathaniel Cranson.

0:35:09 > 0:35:12They got married in 1928.

0:35:12 > 0:35:14What we can do is we can go and look

0:35:14 > 0:35:17to see if Dorothy and Nathaniel had any children.

0:35:17 > 0:35:18This is so cool.

0:35:20 > 0:35:24So Jean Cranson was born in 1929.

0:35:24 > 0:35:26Yeah, now what we're going to do,

0:35:26 > 0:35:29- we're going to go to this marriage index here.- This one?- Yeah.

0:35:29 > 0:35:32She married a Wiper.

0:35:32 > 0:35:34Jean Cranson married a Wiper.

0:35:34 > 0:35:39In Darlington. In 1950.

0:35:40 > 0:35:42She might be alive?

0:35:42 > 0:35:45Minnie has managed to trace forward from her great-aunt Maud

0:35:45 > 0:35:48to find Jean Wiper,

0:35:48 > 0:35:52who was married not far from Stockton-on-Tees, 63 years ago.

0:35:52 > 0:35:54If she is still alive,

0:35:54 > 0:35:58Minnie may be able to find her on the local electoral register.

0:36:00 > 0:36:03There she is. Oh, she's 84.

0:36:04 > 0:36:08Wow! I'm so glad she's still alive.

0:36:08 > 0:36:10That's great, thank you so much.

0:36:10 > 0:36:13- That's all right.- That's brilliant, really brilliant.

0:36:13 > 0:36:15Using directory enquiries,

0:36:15 > 0:36:19Minnie has found a contact number for Jean Wiper, her second cousin.

0:36:22 > 0:36:23Jean?

0:36:25 > 0:36:27You're known as Eileen.

0:36:27 > 0:36:32- Hello, Eileen, my name's Minnie Driver and erm...- 'Hello.'

0:36:32 > 0:36:34Hello. And I...

0:36:34 > 0:36:36'Nice to speak to you.'

0:36:36 > 0:36:38It's so nice to speak to you.

0:36:38 > 0:36:41Your granny was my grandpa's sister.

0:36:41 > 0:36:44You're the first relative of my father's

0:36:44 > 0:36:47that I've ever even known about,

0:36:47 > 0:36:49much less spoken to, so I'm thrilled.

0:36:49 > 0:36:52Do you think I could come and meet you?

0:36:52 > 0:36:54'I...I would love to meet you.'

0:36:54 > 0:36:56Would you?!

0:37:00 > 0:37:03Jean Wiper lives in the town of Darlington,

0:37:03 > 0:37:0512 miles from Stockton-on-Tees.

0:37:09 > 0:37:13She prefers to be known by her middle name, Eileen.

0:37:15 > 0:37:18- Hello.- Hello, Eileen. Hello!- Hello.

0:37:21 > 0:37:22How are you?

0:37:22 > 0:37:25Oh, it's so nice to meet you.

0:37:25 > 0:37:28Here, I'll shut the door, it's chilly.

0:37:29 > 0:37:31I've bought these for you.

0:37:31 > 0:37:33Oh, how lovely. Thank you.

0:37:33 > 0:37:36I don't know what colour they're going to be, but they are pretty.

0:37:36 > 0:37:39- Oh, I love...- And I bought you some, I've bought you some biscuits too.

0:37:39 > 0:37:42- I'll eat all of them for you. - Sit down.

0:37:42 > 0:37:45All right, I will. Ah, look at your lovely house.

0:37:45 > 0:37:48- Where shall I sit, here?- Yes.- OK.

0:37:48 > 0:37:50- That's lovely.- Look...

0:37:50 > 0:37:54- Oh, my goodness. - Well, this is a surprise.

0:37:54 > 0:37:56How lovely to meet you.

0:37:56 > 0:37:59You know when I, I've seen you on television,

0:37:59 > 0:38:02I wondered about the name and, and I thought,

0:38:02 > 0:38:05I wonder, "Is there some, you know, relation there?"

0:38:05 > 0:38:08And then I thought, "No, no, no."

0:38:08 > 0:38:10- That's funny.- Yeah.

0:38:10 > 0:38:13- And did you ever meet Charles? - Yes.

0:38:13 > 0:38:15- You did?- I did.- That's my grandpa.

0:38:15 > 0:38:17That was your grandpa, yes.

0:38:17 > 0:38:20Yes, I met him, he was a lovely, lovely gentleman, he really was.

0:38:20 > 0:38:22- Was he?- Yes.

0:38:22 > 0:38:24Did you meet my granny?

0:38:24 > 0:38:27Yes, I call her Jessie.

0:38:27 > 0:38:30- Jessie, right.- Jessie.- Jessie. - Aunt Jessie, yes.

0:38:30 > 0:38:34Oh, yes, she was an outgoing, fun person.

0:38:34 > 0:38:36- Was she?- Yes, yes.

0:38:36 > 0:38:41But uncle Charles was very reserved, very quiet,

0:38:41 > 0:38:43- a gentleman, actually, yeah.- Yeah.

0:38:43 > 0:38:45You know, yes. Oh, yes.

0:38:45 > 0:38:47But his wife was a, was, was, was a bit sparky?

0:38:47 > 0:38:51- Well, yes, you know, yes, yeah. - My dad was like that.

0:38:51 > 0:38:54- Yeah, was he?- And I'm a bit like that.- Bit like it.

0:38:54 > 0:38:58THEY LAUGH

0:38:58 > 0:39:01And did... So they lived in, they lived in Stockton?

0:39:01 > 0:39:03In Stockton when I met them, yes,

0:39:03 > 0:39:06we spent the weekend, a friend and I spent the weekend with them

0:39:06 > 0:39:10and they were really lovely and charming.

0:39:10 > 0:39:13I mean, I, I couldn't believe there were so many photos

0:39:13 > 0:39:18of your dad in his uniform and they were so proud of him.

0:39:18 > 0:39:20- They were, right.- So proud of him.

0:39:20 > 0:39:22I knew from my dad's birth certificate

0:39:22 > 0:39:25that...they weren't actually,

0:39:25 > 0:39:30that, that your uncle Charles and auntie Jessie weren't married when he was born

0:39:30 > 0:39:33and they, they got married in 1936.

0:39:33 > 0:39:37And I wondered if you knew anything about that?

0:39:38 > 0:39:40- Nothing at all.- No?- No.

0:39:40 > 0:39:44- No, whatever it was, was kept secret from the family.- Yeah.

0:39:44 > 0:39:48In those days, people didn't talk about things like that.

0:39:48 > 0:39:53Did you remember seeing pictures of my granny and grandpa,

0:39:53 > 0:39:56of erm, of your uncle Charles and auntie Jessie?

0:39:56 > 0:39:59Did you see pictures of them ever, were there any in the house?

0:39:59 > 0:40:03- No, I don't remember see any.- No? - No.

0:40:03 > 0:40:06- A shame, isn't it?- Do you know, it is, it's a real shame.

0:40:06 > 0:40:08Let's see.

0:40:08 > 0:40:11Eileen does have one family photograph

0:40:11 > 0:40:13that she wants to show Minnie.

0:40:13 > 0:40:15Oh, look.

0:40:15 > 0:40:18That is Maud, that's my grandmother.

0:40:18 > 0:40:22- That's Maud, so that's my grandpa's sister.- Yes.

0:40:22 > 0:40:25Wasn't she 19 when she got married?

0:40:25 > 0:40:27- She was 18.- 18?

0:40:27 > 0:40:30- And my grandfather was 32. - I know, I noticed that.

0:40:30 > 0:40:32I don't think the family liked that.

0:40:37 > 0:40:40I've made you a copy of this.

0:40:40 > 0:40:43That's fantastic. Oh, look.

0:40:43 > 0:40:47Oh, my goodness, thank you, I love it.

0:40:47 > 0:40:50Minnie may not have found a photograph of her grandfather,

0:40:50 > 0:40:54Charles Edmund Driver, but she does now have one of her great-aunt Maud.

0:40:54 > 0:40:58And she has met a member of her father's family for the first time.

0:40:58 > 0:41:01You and I are actually the same generation, we're the same,

0:41:01 > 0:41:04by birth, we are the same generation.

0:41:04 > 0:41:09- Uh-huh.- I think largely because my, Charles had children later...

0:41:09 > 0:41:13- Later.- ..and Maud had them so young. - Young, yes, that's right, yes, yes.

0:41:13 > 0:41:16That's why I become 84 and you're only young.

0:41:16 > 0:41:20And I'm only young, let's leave it at that, shall we?

0:41:27 > 0:41:30I love Eileen, she's fantastic.

0:41:30 > 0:41:32There's a funny familiarity about her,

0:41:32 > 0:41:34even though I've never met her before.

0:41:34 > 0:41:38I wish that she'd had a picture of her uncle Charles,

0:41:38 > 0:41:40who was my grandfather.

0:41:41 > 0:41:43It does still seem a little mysterious

0:41:43 > 0:41:47about my grandfather and my grandmother not being married.

0:41:47 > 0:41:50I'm convinced that there was some sort of something going on

0:41:50 > 0:41:53and I, I'd really like to know what that is.

0:42:01 > 0:42:02- Hi.- Hi.

0:42:02 > 0:42:04- Have you got a package for Minnie Driver?- I do, yes.

0:42:04 > 0:42:07- Oh, thank you.- Thank you very much.

0:42:07 > 0:42:10The marriage certificate for Minnie's grandparents,

0:42:10 > 0:42:13that she ordered at Stockton Library,

0:42:13 > 0:42:14has been delivered to her hotel.

0:42:14 > 0:42:16Right.

0:42:16 > 0:42:18Charles Edmund Driver

0:42:18 > 0:42:20and Mary Jessica Kelley.

0:42:20 > 0:42:25He was 56 and she was 41, she was a widow.

0:42:25 > 0:42:27Oh, and so is he!

0:42:31 > 0:42:34Wow! They both had whole other lives.

0:42:34 > 0:42:37The residence at the time of marriage,

0:42:37 > 0:42:40Southfield Road, Middlesbrough.

0:42:43 > 0:42:47Middlesbrough is separated from Stockton by the River Tees.

0:42:47 > 0:42:51When her grandparents were married there in 1936,

0:42:51 > 0:42:55the Tees Transporter Bridge had already been in operation for 25 years.

0:42:55 > 0:43:01It is now one of the few remaining transporter bridges in the world.

0:43:01 > 0:43:04And it still ferries cars and passengers between the two towns.

0:43:15 > 0:43:18Minnie has come to Middlesbrough Central Library

0:43:18 > 0:43:22to see if she can finally find out why her grandparents weren't married

0:43:22 > 0:43:25at the time of her father's birth, in 1921.

0:43:26 > 0:43:29- Hi.- Hello, Minnie.- Hello, Mike. - Very pleased to meet you.

0:43:29 > 0:43:31Genealogist Mike Tringham has uncovered a certificate

0:43:31 > 0:43:35for the first marriage of Minnie's grandmother, Mary Jessie.

0:43:36 > 0:43:38Robert Campbell Kelley...

0:43:39 > 0:43:42..and Mary Jessie Maggie McGregor.

0:43:42 > 0:43:45- Yes, married in Liverpool.- Wow!

0:43:45 > 0:43:48On 15th April 1917.

0:43:48 > 0:43:51She must have met my grandfather quite quickly afterwards.

0:43:51 > 0:43:54I mean, if my dad was born in 1921.

0:43:54 > 0:43:56There is a tragedy here, this is...

0:43:56 > 0:43:59- His death certificate. - ..his death certificate.

0:43:59 > 0:44:01He died in France.

0:44:01 > 0:44:04- He was serving King and country, he was one of the...- Wow!

0:44:04 > 0:44:08..the deaths that took place at the worst possible time,

0:44:08 > 0:44:10at the end of the war.

0:44:10 > 0:44:13So your grandmother was widowed

0:44:13 > 0:44:15about a year after her marriage.

0:44:15 > 0:44:18- He didn't even die at home.- No.

0:44:18 > 0:44:23So what about my, my grandfather's wife, who was he married to?

0:44:23 > 0:44:27Well, I've got some information for you about your grandfather.

0:44:27 > 0:44:29I'll show you this next document.

0:44:29 > 0:44:32- Another marriage certificate. - If you'd like to, yes.

0:44:32 > 0:44:36Ada. Oh! Ada Wood Stancliffe.

0:44:36 > 0:44:39She was 30 and he was 21,

0:44:39 > 0:44:43- and they were married in 1901. - 1901.

0:44:43 > 0:44:45And he married again in 1936.

0:44:45 > 0:44:48But he was with my grandmother before that, so...

0:44:48 > 0:44:51BOTH: What happened to Ada?

0:44:51 > 0:44:54Well, I can tell you what happened to Ada.

0:44:54 > 0:44:57So this is her death certificate.

0:44:57 > 0:45:00The 12th December 1932...

0:45:00 > 0:45:02is when she died.

0:45:02 > 0:45:03Wait a minute.

0:45:03 > 0:45:06- They were still definitely married. - They were still married,

0:45:06 > 0:45:09which meant that he had fallen in love my grandmother

0:45:09 > 0:45:12and had my dad while he was still married.

0:45:12 > 0:45:16- Oh, the tangled web we weave.- Hm.

0:45:19 > 0:45:22Wait a minute - he had a son.

0:45:22 > 0:45:26- Dad had a brother. Leslie.- Yes.

0:45:26 > 0:45:27Leslie Driver.

0:45:30 > 0:45:34Minnie has discovered that her grandfather, Charles,

0:45:34 > 0:45:37and his first wife, Ada Wood Stancliffe,

0:45:37 > 0:45:39had a son called Leslie -

0:45:39 > 0:45:42a half-brother to her father, Ronnie.

0:45:44 > 0:45:47- Did your father ever mention him? - No.

0:45:47 > 0:45:49Do you think he knew about him?

0:45:49 > 0:45:51Probably.

0:45:51 > 0:45:53- My dad was full of secrets.- Hm.

0:45:53 > 0:45:56I came across a marriage for him.

0:45:59 > 0:46:03Oh, my God! He was an actor!

0:46:03 > 0:46:04Ah, yes.

0:46:04 > 0:46:06And she was a variety artist!

0:46:06 > 0:46:08I wondered when you'd notice.

0:46:08 > 0:46:12I'm so happy. Finally, there's someone else who does...

0:46:12 > 0:46:17- Yes.- ..does the same thing... ridiculous profession as me.

0:46:17 > 0:46:19It's in the genes.

0:46:19 > 0:46:23That is just brilliant!

0:46:25 > 0:46:28So, here we have a programme.

0:46:28 > 0:46:30Oh, look.

0:46:30 > 0:46:34- What do you make of that?- The Hippodrome, St Petersgate, Stockport.

0:46:34 > 0:46:38This was in 1944, this particular production.

0:46:38 > 0:46:42He was part of the Frank H Fortescue's Repertory Players,

0:46:42 > 0:46:45- which was quite a reputable... - Was it?

0:46:45 > 0:46:48..and well-thought-of repertory company.

0:46:48 > 0:46:50Oh, he went by Leslie Stancliffe.

0:46:50 > 0:46:53He didn't go by Leslie Driver.

0:46:53 > 0:46:56Oh, I wonder if that's because he was angry with his dad.

0:46:57 > 0:46:59Oh! Wait. Stancliffe...

0:46:59 > 0:47:01Stancliffe's HER maiden name.

0:47:02 > 0:47:05Ada Wood Stancliffe.

0:47:05 > 0:47:08- That's his mother's maiden name. - So that's what he went by.

0:47:09 > 0:47:11Wow!

0:47:11 > 0:47:12Thank you so much.

0:47:12 > 0:47:15It's been my pleasure.

0:47:15 > 0:47:16Thanks.

0:47:23 > 0:47:27Minnie is on the trail of her half-uncle, Leslie,

0:47:27 > 0:47:29who worked as an actor during the 1940s

0:47:29 > 0:47:32in Stockport, Greater Manchester.

0:47:33 > 0:47:36I've been trying to figure out why it tickles me so much

0:47:36 > 0:47:39that my uncle Leslie was an actor.

0:47:39 > 0:47:41Cos I've always been a bit of a freak in my family.

0:47:43 > 0:47:48I think I announced when I was about five, that that's what I was...

0:47:48 > 0:47:51that I wanted to do music and acting.

0:47:51 > 0:47:55The first and only time that I think my parents took it seriously

0:47:55 > 0:47:58was when we arrived at the Oscars when I was nominated,

0:47:58 > 0:48:03and you walk in and I was holding my dad's hand and he leant over

0:48:03 > 0:48:06and he said, "You're probably not going to win."

0:48:06 > 0:48:08SHE CHUCKLES

0:48:08 > 0:48:10I was like, "I know!"

0:48:25 > 0:48:27Minnie has come to the Stockport Plaza

0:48:27 > 0:48:31to meet Associate Professor James Moran,

0:48:31 > 0:48:34an expert on the repertory theatre movement.

0:48:38 > 0:48:40Here we are.

0:48:42 > 0:48:44Isn't it beautiful?

0:48:44 > 0:48:46Oh, look at that.

0:48:46 > 0:48:49This is the Stockport Plaza.

0:48:49 > 0:48:51It's one of the surviving grand theatres

0:48:51 > 0:48:54from the period when your uncle was in Stockport.

0:48:54 > 0:48:58Now, he performed certainly at the Stockport Hippodrome,

0:48:58 > 0:49:00which is about 150 yards away from here.

0:49:00 > 0:49:02Is that still surviving?

0:49:02 > 0:49:05I'm afraid not. That's been burnt down. That doesn't exist any more.

0:49:05 > 0:49:09But you have some sense of the kind of place that he was performing in.

0:49:09 > 0:49:10How beautiful.

0:49:13 > 0:49:16By the 1930s, local repertory theatre companies,

0:49:16 > 0:49:19offering audiences a new play every week,

0:49:19 > 0:49:23had become one of the most popular forms of entertainment in Britain.

0:49:23 > 0:49:26While often derided by serious theatre critics,

0:49:26 > 0:49:31the popularity of commercial rep was to have a significant impact

0:49:31 > 0:49:34on the development of British culture.

0:49:35 > 0:49:38Stars such as Ronnie Barker and Eric Sykes,

0:49:38 > 0:49:41and the casts of popular shows like Dad's Army,

0:49:41 > 0:49:45all started their careers in the commercial repertory system.

0:49:47 > 0:49:50- I've got a programme from the Hippodrome...- Great.

0:49:50 > 0:49:54..that my... Well, the play that my uncle Leslie was in.

0:49:54 > 0:49:58This is a comedy, Spring Cleaning, about a man who was worried

0:49:58 > 0:50:02that his wife is mixing with some disreputable people

0:50:02 > 0:50:04and he's worried that she might have an affair, so...

0:50:04 > 0:50:08- Was my uncle one of the disreputable characters in...- He was, yes.

0:50:08 > 0:50:09Why doesn't that surprise me?

0:50:09 > 0:50:12He could do comic parts like this,

0:50:12 > 0:50:15but he could also play leading men,

0:50:15 > 0:50:18he could play old men, with talcum powder in his hair,

0:50:18 > 0:50:20he could play butlers, he often did that.

0:50:20 > 0:50:23He could do a range of accents. He could do Manchester accents,

0:50:23 > 0:50:25London accents, New York accents,

0:50:25 > 0:50:28and the thing that really makes his name,

0:50:28 > 0:50:30that makes him famous in the Fortescue Players,

0:50:30 > 0:50:35is a performance in 1944 of a play called Peg O' My Heart.

0:50:35 > 0:50:37- If you look at the review... - So exciting.

0:50:37 > 0:50:40..you'll see what happens in performance.

0:50:40 > 0:50:42"Two quick changes at short notice

0:50:42 > 0:50:44"were necessary at the beginning of the week.

0:50:44 > 0:50:47"Mr T Mostoll Willey takes the part of Jerry,

0:50:47 > 0:50:49"intended for Mr Alan Caesar,

0:50:49 > 0:50:53"and Mr Leslie Stancliffe takes the part of Alaric Chichester."

0:50:53 > 0:50:56It's so successful, that part, that the following week

0:50:56 > 0:51:00the Stockport Express newspaper carries a special profile...

0:51:00 > 0:51:03- Let me see that. - ..of Leslie Stancliffe.

0:51:03 > 0:51:05Oh, look at him.

0:51:08 > 0:51:12"Leslie Stancliffe has considerably widened his circle of admirers.

0:51:12 > 0:51:17"He had his first taste of acting as a junior in silent films.

0:51:17 > 0:51:22"Leslie is becoming known to the theatre-going public of Stockport

0:51:22 > 0:51:24"as the man with the funny laugh."

0:51:24 > 0:51:26SHE LAUGHS

0:51:26 > 0:51:29I know where I get it from, then!

0:51:29 > 0:51:32That is a good thing to be known for, Leslie.

0:51:34 > 0:51:37I can't get over how he looks like my dad.

0:51:38 > 0:51:41"He joined Cissie Langley in a sketch on the variety stage."

0:51:41 > 0:51:44That must be where he met, um, Grace McKie.

0:51:44 > 0:51:48It absolutely was. His wife was known on stage...

0:51:48 > 0:51:51Ohh! You've only got a picture of her. Oh, let me see!

0:51:51 > 0:51:55- There you go. - Oh, my gosh! She's gorgeous.

0:51:57 > 0:51:59Oh, look, she has such a lively face.

0:51:59 > 0:52:03And if you want, I have a better image of your uncle there.

0:52:05 > 0:52:08Oh, my God, he's so handsome.

0:52:10 > 0:52:12Oh, goodness me, look at them.

0:52:14 > 0:52:17So he's dedicated that, you can see, to my darling Billie,

0:52:17 > 0:52:20and Billie McKie was Grace's stage name.

0:52:20 > 0:52:21Oh, it was?

0:52:21 > 0:52:26It was her stage name when she was performing on the variety stage.

0:52:26 > 0:52:28What happened to them, do you know?

0:52:28 > 0:52:32After the war, he left the Fortescue Players

0:52:32 > 0:52:35and I have a different programme here for the Popular Players

0:52:35 > 0:52:38near Blackpool, playing at St-Anne's-on-Sea.

0:52:38 > 0:52:41This piece is called Daddy Long-Legs.

0:52:41 > 0:52:43Oh, look, he had the lead. He had the lead role.

0:52:43 > 0:52:46- What year is this, sorry? - This is 1945.

0:52:46 > 0:52:49- OK.- And then the trail goes a bit cold

0:52:49 > 0:52:53and I just have one more document relating to Leslie.

0:52:53 > 0:52:57This is from The Stage, the theatrical newspaper.

0:52:57 > 0:53:02"Loving memories of Leslie, died March 6th 1947.

0:53:02 > 0:53:07"The rest is yours, dear, the loneliness ours - Billie.

0:53:07 > 0:53:11"God bless my darling daddy - Jean."

0:53:12 > 0:53:15Oh, dear. He died so young.

0:53:15 > 0:53:18He was 38, I think.

0:53:18 > 0:53:19Oh... But he had a daughter.

0:53:19 > 0:53:22Yeah, he did have a daughter. The interesting thing is,

0:53:22 > 0:53:25if you look at the last programme that I showed you,

0:53:25 > 0:53:27of Daddy Long-Legs,

0:53:27 > 0:53:29I don't know if you notice anything familiar about the list

0:53:29 > 0:53:32of orphan children who are on stage?

0:53:32 > 0:53:34Jean Stancliffe. Oh, my gosh!

0:53:35 > 0:53:38So his little girl was in it.

0:53:38 > 0:53:42Now, I do have a contact number for Jean.

0:53:42 > 0:53:44- Oh, God.- She's still alive.

0:53:44 > 0:53:47- Oh, my God. - And she would be happy to...

0:53:47 > 0:53:49- Oh, my God.- ..to speak to you.

0:53:53 > 0:53:57Minnie's cousin, Jean Driver, does not want to appear on camera,

0:53:57 > 0:54:00but she has agreed to speak to Minnie on the phone.

0:54:00 > 0:54:02- '2677.'- Jean?

0:54:02 > 0:54:05- 'Hello.'- Hello, Jean?

0:54:05 > 0:54:08- 'Yes.' - Hello, it's Minnie Driver.

0:54:08 > 0:54:09'Oh, hello.'

0:54:09 > 0:54:13Would you be happy to talk to me about your dad and your mum?

0:54:13 > 0:54:15- 'Yes, of course, yes.'- Oh. - 'That would be lovely.'

0:54:15 > 0:54:18I saw that you were in a play with him?

0:54:18 > 0:54:21'Yes, when they did a production of Daddy Long-Legs

0:54:21 > 0:54:23- 'at the Ashton Pavilion.'- Right.

0:54:23 > 0:54:25'And I played one of the orphans.'

0:54:25 > 0:54:29Oh, I love that you were on stage with your dad! That's so great.

0:54:29 > 0:54:33- 'I don't really remember very well, but...'- Oh!- 'Yes.'

0:54:33 > 0:54:37Did you know that your dad had a half-brother?

0:54:37 > 0:54:40- 'Yes, I did.'- You did?- 'Yes.'

0:54:40 > 0:54:42So, did they ever meet, do you know?

0:54:42 > 0:54:44- 'No, no.'- They never did?

0:54:44 > 0:54:46'Certainly from my parents marrying,

0:54:46 > 0:54:49'I don't think my father went home,

0:54:49 > 0:54:53'but my mother and I went maybe a year after Father had died.

0:54:53 > 0:54:57'Obviously, I met my grandfather and his wife.'

0:54:57 > 0:55:00It's so funny that we share a grandfather.

0:55:00 > 0:55:01- 'It is, yes.'- Isn't it?- 'Yes.'

0:55:01 > 0:55:04Do you have any memories of him at all?

0:55:04 > 0:55:06'Unfortunately not. I wish I did.'

0:55:06 > 0:55:08- Ah!- 'But I do have a photograph.'

0:55:08 > 0:55:12- You don't?- 'Just one.' - Oh, I'm going to cry.

0:55:12 > 0:55:16That is absolutely fantastic news.

0:55:16 > 0:55:18I've been longing to see a picture of him.

0:55:20 > 0:55:23Yeah, I would absolutely love to have your address

0:55:23 > 0:55:26- and maybe we could stay in contact. - 'Yes. That would be great.'

0:55:26 > 0:55:30- I've got a son who's four called Henry.- 'Oh!'

0:55:30 > 0:55:33And he's ever so sweet, and I could maybe send you a picture?

0:55:33 > 0:55:36'Oh, that would... That would be great.'

0:55:36 > 0:55:39Yeah, I'd like that. I'd like that a lot.

0:55:39 > 0:55:41'It's been lovely to speak to you.'

0:55:41 > 0:55:43- Oh, well, I...- 'Wonderful.'

0:55:43 > 0:55:46It's been really nice talking to you. Thank you, Jean.

0:55:46 > 0:55:48- Thank you very much indeed. - 'It's a pleasure.'

0:55:48 > 0:55:51- All right.- 'Yeah.' - Bye-bye.- 'Bye-bye.'- Bye.

0:56:10 > 0:56:14A package from England has arrived at Minnie's house

0:56:14 > 0:56:16in the Hollywood hills.

0:56:18 > 0:56:20Hen!

0:56:20 > 0:56:22Coming.

0:56:23 > 0:56:25Look at this.

0:56:25 > 0:56:28OK, you pull it out really, really gently.

0:56:29 > 0:56:31Oh, wow!

0:56:33 > 0:56:35Look, it's Granny and Grandpa.

0:56:36 > 0:56:41That's my dad's dad, and that's my dad's mum.

0:56:42 > 0:56:45Oh, my goodness.

0:56:45 > 0:56:48And this is your great-grandpa and your great-grandma.

0:56:48 > 0:56:51- You're their great-grandson. - I think they look handsome.

0:56:51 > 0:56:53You think they look handsome?

0:56:53 > 0:56:57- I think you look handsome. - I think you look handsome.

0:56:57 > 0:56:58Thanks so much!

0:57:11 > 0:57:15I wanted to be able to tell Henry more than I knew myself.

0:57:15 > 0:57:18I didn't want it to just be a bunch of question marks.

0:57:18 > 0:57:24When you don't know anything about a certain part of your life,

0:57:24 > 0:57:27finding out some things is both amazing,

0:57:27 > 0:57:30but also incredibly difficult,

0:57:30 > 0:57:33because it's like pulling the thread on a blanket -

0:57:33 > 0:57:37it just begins all of these other questions.

0:57:37 > 0:57:41And it's definitely made me wonder so much about my father

0:57:41 > 0:57:45and why he chose to keep everything so secret.

0:57:46 > 0:57:50Not just for us, but for him, to carry that around.

0:57:50 > 0:57:53It would have been nice to talk to him about it all.

0:57:53 > 0:57:57But I'm glad I can fill in the blanks for Henry, um,

0:57:57 > 0:58:00with some really wonderful stories.

0:58:00 > 0:58:03It will be a great thing for him to have

0:58:03 > 0:58:05and for us to look back on over time.

0:58:29 > 0:58:31Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd