0:00:08 > 0:00:10Model, fashion designer
0:00:10 > 0:00:12and star on both stage and screen,
0:00:12 > 0:00:16Twiggy was an iconic face of the 1960s...
0:00:18 > 0:00:22..and is credited as one of the world's first supermodels.
0:00:28 > 0:00:31'I grew up... All my life, we lived in London.
0:00:31 > 0:00:35'I grew up in Neasden, which is a north-west suburb of London.'
0:00:35 > 0:00:37We didn't have lots of money,
0:00:37 > 0:00:39but, you know, we had a car, we had a telly,
0:00:39 > 0:00:42I had my mum and dad, I had my sisters.
0:00:45 > 0:00:47'He was brilliant, my dad.
0:00:47 > 0:00:49'I was devoted to him.'
0:00:51 > 0:00:53That doesn't mean I didn't love and adore Mum,
0:00:53 > 0:00:55but she was much, much more complicated.
0:00:55 > 0:00:59'Well, she suffered...we called it... She suffered with her nerves.'
0:01:01 > 0:01:04'My mum didn't like talking about the past.
0:01:04 > 0:01:07'I have a vague memory of her dad,
0:01:07 > 0:01:10'who died when I was, I think, about four-ish.
0:01:10 > 0:01:12'Um, I know nothing about her mum.'
0:01:14 > 0:01:19'I don't get the impression that she was from a bad family
0:01:19 > 0:01:21'or it was anything wrong with them.
0:01:21 > 0:01:24'I think she was very close to her mum and dad.'
0:01:25 > 0:01:27What am I going to find out?
0:01:27 > 0:01:30I'm off on an awfully big adventure and I'm very excited!
0:02:03 > 0:02:06'In the kitchen of 93 St Raphael's Way, Neasden,
0:02:06 > 0:02:09'Lesley Hornby has breakfast with her boyfriend,
0:02:09 > 0:02:11'while Mum has a cuppa.'
0:02:11 > 0:02:14- Did I know her, Aunty Jessie? - No, I don't think so.
0:02:14 > 0:02:17She knows Vivien but she doesn't know you.
0:02:17 > 0:02:20'I was born Lesley Hornby,
0:02:20 > 0:02:23'my dad's family name.'
0:02:23 > 0:02:25When I was about 15,
0:02:25 > 0:02:29I had a boyfriend whose brother used to tease me.
0:02:29 > 0:02:32And he used to call me Sticks first,
0:02:32 > 0:02:34cos my legs, he said, were like sticks,
0:02:34 > 0:02:36and then somehow that turned into Twiggy.
0:02:39 > 0:02:44I was a mod, I was 16 years old.
0:02:44 > 0:02:45I did...
0:02:45 > 0:02:48I did all those eyelashes and the painting on at weekends
0:02:48 > 0:02:50because we weren't allowed at school.
0:02:50 > 0:02:5416-year-old Twiggy was discovered in 1966
0:02:54 > 0:02:57when a reporter spotted a photo of her
0:02:57 > 0:02:59on the wall of a Mayfair hairdresser's,
0:02:59 > 0:03:03and a national newspaper decided to run the story.
0:03:03 > 0:03:06We thought it would be a little column, you know, a little bit,
0:03:06 > 0:03:09and my dad suddenly came in one morning really excited.
0:03:09 > 0:03:11He said, "Look, Les, look!" And he opened the paper
0:03:11 > 0:03:14and it was "Twiggy, the face of '66."
0:03:15 > 0:03:20And that day, in February, 1966, my life changed for ever.
0:03:21 > 0:03:23'It was madness.
0:03:23 > 0:03:26'I was suddenly in the newspapers or being flown all round the world
0:03:26 > 0:03:29'and, you know, we were all a very ordinary,
0:03:29 > 0:03:31'you know, happy family.
0:03:31 > 0:03:32'I had a happy childhood.'
0:03:36 > 0:03:40Twiggy now lives in West London and has one daughter, Carly.
0:03:41 > 0:03:44So...this is your mummy!
0:03:44 > 0:03:47- Aw-w, a tiny mummy. - Isn't that funny?
0:03:47 > 0:03:48- You're very funny. - I was quite fat, wasn't I?
0:03:48 > 0:03:51- You really...yeah. - That was pre-Twig.
0:03:51 > 0:03:53They used to say to me, "Lesley, pull a funny face."
0:03:53 > 0:03:55- Yeah.- And I used to do that.
0:03:55 > 0:03:57Aw-w... Pouting already!
0:03:57 > 0:04:00I feel, heart and soul, a Londoner.
0:04:00 > 0:04:01I'm very proud of it.
0:04:01 > 0:04:04My dad came from Lancashire,
0:04:04 > 0:04:07'which is weird my mum married him
0:04:07 > 0:04:09'because she hated going anywhere north of Watford.'
0:04:09 > 0:04:11They both had great noses, look.
0:04:11 > 0:04:15They did have good noses. Yeah, you have her nose.
0:04:15 > 0:04:18- Um...- Have I got Mum's nose, do you think?- I think so, yeah.- Yeah.
0:04:18 > 0:04:21Yeah. But she looks a lot like you.
0:04:21 > 0:04:24- Yeah, I can see me...- Yeah. - ..in Mum, a lot.
0:04:24 > 0:04:26'My mum...probably today,
0:04:26 > 0:04:30'she'd have probably been diagnosed as bipolar or something.'
0:04:30 > 0:04:32I had a happy childhood
0:04:32 > 0:04:34but then she would get lows
0:04:34 > 0:04:35and she'd get depressed,
0:04:35 > 0:04:38and so the doctor would give her, you know, medicine
0:04:38 > 0:04:40and then sometimes she'd end up in hospital.
0:04:40 > 0:04:44The nice thing was, you know, she... although she had dementia,
0:04:44 > 0:04:45but it would come and go,
0:04:45 > 0:04:47- cos sometimes she was quite lucid and...- Yeah.
0:04:47 > 0:04:51The last few days she was talking, she was talking about her mum a lot.
0:04:51 > 0:04:53- Really?- Yeah.
0:04:53 > 0:04:56- Aw-w...- So...hopefully she joined her.
0:04:56 > 0:04:58- That's so sweet.- Yeah.
0:04:58 > 0:05:00'My mum's mum, my grandma,
0:05:00 > 0:05:01'I don't even know her name
0:05:01 > 0:05:05'because when I was born she'd already been deceased.'
0:05:05 > 0:05:06I don't know when she died.
0:05:06 > 0:05:08I don't know anything cos Mum wouldn't talk about it.
0:05:08 > 0:05:12And because of Mum's...
0:05:12 > 0:05:14fragile mental health,
0:05:14 > 0:05:16we didn't ever want to upset her.
0:05:16 > 0:05:19I know she was close to her mum, that's all.
0:05:19 > 0:05:20It's a total blank space.
0:05:20 > 0:05:23I've always wanted to know. We all have.
0:05:23 > 0:05:25We're absolutely intrigued.
0:05:40 > 0:05:42So, I'm on my way to Woking in Surrey,
0:05:42 > 0:05:45where my elder sister Shirley lives,
0:05:45 > 0:05:48and Shirley's 15 years older than me,
0:05:48 > 0:05:52so I'm hoping she might know a little bit more
0:05:52 > 0:05:56about Mum's mum and dad than I do.
0:06:06 > 0:06:10- Hello.- Hello!- It's me! How are you? - Nice to see you. I'm fine.
0:06:10 > 0:06:11You all right?
0:06:11 > 0:06:15So, what have you've got in store to show me?
0:06:15 > 0:06:17Oh, photographs.
0:06:17 > 0:06:20- Cos we haven't got that many cos of...- No, we haven't.
0:06:20 > 0:06:22..you know, Dad getting rid of them,
0:06:22 > 0:06:24- but I think that was Mum telling him to do that, don't you?- Yes.
0:06:24 > 0:06:27- She wasn't well.- No, I know she wasn't.- No, she wasn't.
0:06:27 > 0:06:29My memories of Mum are, you know, she was a wonderful mum.
0:06:29 > 0:06:30I mean, I was spoilt to death,
0:06:30 > 0:06:32cos, like, you were like my second mum
0:06:32 > 0:06:35cos by the time I was old enough to really know you...
0:06:35 > 0:06:37- That's right, yeah, I was in my 20s...- ..five or six,
0:06:37 > 0:06:39you were in your 20s. So what have we got?
0:06:39 > 0:06:42- That's Dad and that's Mum. - Mum's swimsuit.
0:06:42 > 0:06:44- Yeah, yeah! - Looks like it was knitted.
0:06:44 > 0:06:46Well, mine definitely was,
0:06:46 > 0:06:49and when I went in the sea it all sort of dragged down.
0:06:51 > 0:06:52That's hysterical!
0:06:52 > 0:06:55How old's Mum then? She was born in 190...9?
0:06:55 > 0:06:58- ..9, yeah.- About in her late 20s.
0:06:58 > 0:07:00- 20s, yeah, yeah.- Aw-w...- Yeah.
0:07:00 > 0:07:03This is... That's Mum pregnant with me, right?
0:07:03 > 0:07:08- With you, yes.- So this must be the summer of 1949?- Yes.
0:07:08 > 0:07:11- Cos I was born September 19th. - In September, '49, yeah.
0:07:11 > 0:07:13- And there's Dad.- That's right.
0:07:13 > 0:07:16- Where are you? You're not here? - I'm not there, no.
0:07:16 > 0:07:19- You were out gallivanting. - Yes, definitely.
0:07:19 > 0:07:23Aw-w. And this is Mum's sister's wedding, right.
0:07:23 > 0:07:25- Yes. Yeah, yeah. - Who sent this to you?
0:07:25 > 0:07:26Somebody gave it to me
0:07:26 > 0:07:29but I can't tell you where it'd come from cos I haven't got a clue.
0:07:29 > 0:07:30That's Mum.
0:07:30 > 0:07:33- And that's Mum with the low hat. - Yeah, yeah.
0:07:33 > 0:07:36- That's Grandad and that's... - Oh, is that Grandad?
0:07:36 > 0:07:39- Yes.- Is that Mum's dad? - That's Mum's dad.- Oh, bli...
0:07:39 > 0:07:41- But you never saw him, did you? - Well, I did.
0:07:41 > 0:07:44- Oh, you did, I beg your pardon. - I remember him living in our house.
0:07:44 > 0:07:47- Oh, when he was in the flat. - And I've got a vague...
0:07:47 > 0:07:48I must have been really little,
0:07:48 > 0:07:51three or four, vague memory of a big man, which he is...
0:07:51 > 0:07:53- That's right. - ..with a big moustache.- That's right.
0:07:53 > 0:07:55- And that's Nanny.- That's Nanny.
0:07:55 > 0:07:56See, I don't remember her.
0:07:56 > 0:07:59So what...when did Nanny die, do you remember?
0:07:59 > 0:08:01I never met her, did I?
0:08:01 > 0:08:03No. No, I don't think so.
0:08:03 > 0:08:05No, because I was quite young when she died.
0:08:05 > 0:08:08And was her name Grace, I want to say, no?
0:08:08 > 0:08:11- It was either Alice or Grace. - Oh, Alice.- Alice.
0:08:11 > 0:08:13Yes, I'm almost certain it was Alice, yeah.
0:08:13 > 0:08:16- Isn't it awful we don't know? - We don't know, no.
0:08:16 > 0:08:22- We don't know anything about our mum's grandparents.- No.
0:08:22 > 0:08:24- No.- It's amazing, isn't it?
0:08:24 > 0:08:28I wonder if Mum ever met her grandparents.
0:08:28 > 0:08:32We don't know that either, do we? Interesting.
0:08:32 > 0:08:35- It's like...it's like some mad jigsaw puzzle, isn't it?- Yes!
0:08:35 > 0:08:37What do we know, what do we not know?!
0:08:37 > 0:08:40And this was Mum's...
0:08:40 > 0:08:42'Having talked to my lovely sister, Shirley,
0:08:42 > 0:08:45'I thought she might know a little bit more.'
0:08:45 > 0:08:48And she actually knew Nanny, but she did come up with her name,
0:08:48 > 0:08:50Alice, that she's sure she was called Alice.
0:08:52 > 0:08:54I'm hellbent on finding out now,
0:08:54 > 0:08:57you know, I really want to know about Alice and her life.
0:09:05 > 0:09:08To find out more about her maternal grandmother,
0:09:08 > 0:09:12and that side of the family, Twiggy has returned to London
0:09:12 > 0:09:14and is on her way to see a genealogist.
0:09:16 > 0:09:18After seeing my sister Shirley,
0:09:18 > 0:09:20I ordered our mum's birth certificate,
0:09:20 > 0:09:22which I've got on my lap!
0:09:22 > 0:09:28Which I'm hoping will start to open the doors to something I don't know.
0:09:28 > 0:09:31It's quite exciting, actually. I feel a bit weird.
0:09:31 > 0:09:35It's kind of funny but I'm going to go ahead.
0:09:35 > 0:09:36Oh-oh.
0:09:38 > 0:09:40Put me glasses on!
0:09:44 > 0:09:48Yeah, 10th... She was born 10th August, 1909,
0:09:48 > 0:09:50we were correct in that.
0:09:50 > 0:09:52Nellie Lydia. Yeah, I knew that.
0:09:52 > 0:09:54Lydia's such a pretty name.
0:09:54 > 0:09:58Oh, our grandma was... Oh, she was right, it's Alice.
0:09:58 > 0:10:00"Formerly Meadows."
0:10:01 > 0:10:03So her maiden name was...
0:10:05 > 0:10:06That's weird.
0:10:06 > 0:10:09I've never ever heard that mentioned in our family.
0:10:13 > 0:10:18So I think my line of action now is to look up this,
0:10:18 > 0:10:22you know, Alice Meadows' family.
0:10:34 > 0:10:36Thanks.
0:10:38 > 0:10:41At the Society of Genealogists,
0:10:41 > 0:10:44Laura Berry has been looking into Twiggy's grandmother
0:10:44 > 0:10:46and her family.
0:10:46 > 0:10:49- Shall I go in there? - Just take a seat, yeah.- OK.
0:10:57 > 0:11:03So, Laura, I'm here hoping that you can help me find my grandma,
0:11:03 > 0:11:05Alice Meadows.
0:11:05 > 0:11:09- Well, I have been able to find her on the 1891 Census.- Oh...
0:11:09 > 0:11:12So you can see her with her parents.
0:11:12 > 0:11:15- And we put in Alice Meadows...- Yeah.
0:11:15 > 0:11:18Just have a look and see what comes up.
0:11:23 > 0:11:26In fact, it's been transcribed as Meadow,
0:11:26 > 0:11:29- which is why you would have really struggled to find it.- Oh, why?
0:11:29 > 0:11:31Just because the person has misread it
0:11:31 > 0:11:34- when they've compiled this index. - OK. Oh, gosh,
0:11:34 > 0:11:35- that must happen a lot, mustn't it?- Yeah.
0:11:35 > 0:11:37Or misspell things.
0:11:37 > 0:11:39Oh, wow, what's this?
0:11:39 > 0:11:42So that's the beginning of the Meadows family.
0:11:42 > 0:11:45Alice, my grandma, who was 12.
0:11:45 > 0:11:46That's her dad -
0:11:46 > 0:11:51William Meadow, my great-grandad, yeah?
0:11:51 > 0:11:52- Yeah.- Head.
0:11:52 > 0:11:58Lived there with Elizabeth and then they had Alexander, a son.
0:11:58 > 0:12:01- And are these all their children as well?- Yeah.
0:12:01 > 0:12:03- Oh, my goodness! - Got all these children, here.
0:12:03 > 0:12:06That's one, two, three, four, five, six children!
0:12:06 > 0:12:09- You've got another there, as well, Frederick.- Oh, my goodness!- Seven.
0:12:09 > 0:12:12Seven children lived in two rooms.
0:12:12 > 0:12:17They lived in 1 Bridge Street, in two rooms!
0:12:17 > 0:12:19- Which is in...- Is where?
0:12:19 > 0:12:22- I don't know if you can read that. - In Willesden!- Willesden, yeah.
0:12:22 > 0:12:24Oh, wow! And what did he do?
0:12:24 > 0:12:27William was a slater.
0:12:27 > 0:12:30And would they have earned much money?
0:12:30 > 0:12:33It's doubtful. I mean, he's living in...
0:12:33 > 0:12:34- In a shared house.- Yeah.
0:12:34 > 0:12:36And it's got, well, a lot of people living in it.
0:12:36 > 0:12:41So we're thinking they were probably not very well off, right?
0:12:41 > 0:12:44- Yeah, I doubt it.- Elizabeth, presumably, wouldn't have worked?- No,
0:12:44 > 0:12:47- Elizabeth would have been looking after all of these children. - Oh, my God!
0:12:47 > 0:12:49- Hundreds of children she's got. - I know.
0:12:49 > 0:12:52So, I think I'd better write this down actually.
0:12:52 > 0:12:53Let's see.
0:12:56 > 0:12:57Right.
0:12:57 > 0:12:59So, how do I start?
0:12:59 > 0:13:03So Meadows...family.
0:13:03 > 0:13:06OK, so that's it - William Meadows, Elizabeth Meadows,
0:13:06 > 0:13:08my great-grandparents, right?
0:13:10 > 0:13:13So we've got William...
0:13:13 > 0:13:16Twiggy's discovered that in 1891,
0:13:16 > 0:13:18her grandmother Alice
0:13:18 > 0:13:20was part of a large family,
0:13:20 > 0:13:21living with her parents,
0:13:21 > 0:13:23William and Elizabeth,
0:13:23 > 0:13:26and six siblings.
0:13:26 > 0:13:29Frederick...
0:13:30 > 0:13:33..seven months.
0:13:35 > 0:13:37Wow, it's amazing.
0:13:37 > 0:13:39Cos these...
0:13:39 > 0:13:44were my mum's aunts and uncles
0:13:44 > 0:13:45and my great-aunts and uncles,
0:13:45 > 0:13:48- and I know nothing about any of them.- No.
0:13:48 > 0:13:50- My mum never ever... I mean, that's weird.- Never mentioned them?
0:13:50 > 0:13:54- Maybe they fell out. - Well...- Families do!
0:13:54 > 0:13:58- They do. And it is a bit odd because...- Why?
0:13:58 > 0:14:00- ..the next logical thing to do... - Yeah.
0:14:00 > 0:14:03..would be to search for this family on the next census return,
0:14:03 > 0:14:06- moving forwards, so... - Moving forwards? Oh, OK. - ..to find out what happen to them.
0:14:06 > 0:14:09- So if we try looking for them on 1901...- OK.
0:14:11 > 0:14:13..which I did try before you arrived,
0:14:13 > 0:14:16- and I've had real trouble, to be honest.- Oh!
0:14:16 > 0:14:19So I'm not 100% sure what's happened.
0:14:19 > 0:14:22- So they weren't at that house in 1901...- No, they weren't there.
0:14:22 > 0:14:25- ..in Bridge Street? They'd gone. - No, the family wasn't together.
0:14:25 > 0:14:29William and Elizabeth, my great-grandparents, right,
0:14:29 > 0:14:31where are they in 1901?
0:14:31 > 0:14:33Well, this is the interesting thing,
0:14:33 > 0:14:36I haven't actually been able to find them together in 1901.
0:14:36 > 0:14:39- What does that mean?- Well, I'm not sure.- Ooh...!
0:14:39 > 0:14:41I think something has gone amiss.
0:14:41 > 0:14:43Catastrophic?
0:14:43 > 0:14:48- Well, it might be something you have to look into.- Oh, OK.
0:14:48 > 0:14:52Unable to find the Meadows family living all together in 1901,
0:14:52 > 0:14:54Laura looked for the younger children,
0:14:54 > 0:14:58most likely still to be living with their parents.
0:14:58 > 0:15:01She couldn't find the youngest, Frederick...
0:15:01 > 0:15:03I'm looking for the next youngest.
0:15:03 > 0:15:05OK, which was...
0:15:05 > 0:15:07..so she searched for Henry,
0:15:07 > 0:15:12and finally found him by using the other common form of his name.
0:15:12 > 0:15:14- Henry is sometimes Harry. - Harry, oh, yeah.
0:15:14 > 0:15:16So maybe he was under Harry.
0:15:16 > 0:15:18- Harry Meadows, is that him? - Yep, that's him.
0:15:18 > 0:15:20- What does that say?- Inmate.
0:15:20 > 0:15:22Inmate!
0:15:22 > 0:15:24So, do you think he was in jail?
0:15:24 > 0:15:26It says up here...
0:15:26 > 0:15:28Aw-w...homeless little boy.
0:15:28 > 0:15:30Oh, my God! What happened?
0:15:30 > 0:15:34- So he's in the district home for homeless little boys.- Aw-w.
0:15:34 > 0:15:38- In Kent!- In Kent. - Not even in London.
0:15:38 > 0:15:40Horton Kirby in Kent - never heard of it.
0:15:42 > 0:15:44'It's amazing how emotionally it hits you, actually,
0:15:44 > 0:15:48'because my nan came from actually quite a big family
0:15:48 > 0:15:50'that we never knew about.
0:15:50 > 0:15:54'But by 1901, we can't find the family as a unit.'
0:15:54 > 0:15:57So all I can think is something awful has happened
0:15:57 > 0:16:02because the only one we can find is little Henry, who is now Harry,
0:16:02 > 0:16:04and he's about 13 or 14
0:16:04 > 0:16:07and he's in a school for homeless boys,
0:16:07 > 0:16:11which means the family must have disintegrated
0:16:11 > 0:16:13or they died or...
0:16:13 > 0:16:16and where are the other six kids,
0:16:16 > 0:16:18all my great-aunts and uncles?!
0:16:19 > 0:16:24So what did happen to the Meadows family during the 1890s?
0:16:24 > 0:16:26Twiggy's following her only lead.
0:16:29 > 0:16:34Right, I'm now on the trail of my great-uncle Harry.
0:16:34 > 0:16:37He turned up in Kent in a home for homeless boys,
0:16:37 > 0:16:40which is rather distressing.
0:16:41 > 0:16:45So I don't know if the building still exists, or the records.
0:16:45 > 0:16:48I don't know but I'm hoping to find out.
0:16:57 > 0:17:01Twiggy's enlisted the help of historian Dr Kate Bradley.
0:17:01 > 0:17:04They're meeting on the site of the boys' home,
0:17:04 > 0:17:06now a retirement community,
0:17:06 > 0:17:10although some of the original buildings remain.
0:17:10 > 0:17:12- So this would have been the chapel that the...- Yeah.
0:17:12 > 0:17:16- ..homeless boys would have used? - Absolutely.
0:17:16 > 0:17:19So my great-uncle Harry would have sat here?
0:17:19 > 0:17:21- Aw-w.- Yeah.
0:17:23 > 0:17:27Why would a boy like Harry, born and raised in London,
0:17:27 > 0:17:30be sent all the way out here into Kent?
0:17:30 > 0:17:34Well, if we look at the founding minutes of the home,
0:17:34 > 0:17:37we can get an insight into the circumstances
0:17:37 > 0:17:38in which he would have come here.
0:17:38 > 0:17:40So, here we are.
0:17:42 > 0:17:45"The object of this institution
0:17:45 > 0:17:49"is to feed, clothe and educate and train to industrial work
0:17:49 > 0:17:51"homeless and destitute little boys
0:17:51 > 0:17:54"and those in danger of falling into crime."
0:17:57 > 0:17:58To have been brought here,
0:17:58 > 0:18:01Twiggy's great-uncle Harry must have found himself
0:18:01 > 0:18:04in a desperate situation.
0:18:04 > 0:18:08With an estimated third of London's population living in poverty,
0:18:08 > 0:18:10its charities were over-subscribed,
0:18:10 > 0:18:14so some homeless children were sent to the countryside.
0:18:14 > 0:18:19At the home in Kent, Harry Meadows joined around 300 other boys.
0:18:20 > 0:18:24"All such children to be under ten years of age
0:18:24 > 0:18:25"at the time of admission."
0:18:25 > 0:18:28Oh, my goodness, cos in 1901,
0:18:28 > 0:18:31my great-uncle Harry was 13, it said,
0:18:31 > 0:18:35- so he would have come here before he was ten?- Yeah.
0:18:35 > 0:18:38Oh, gosh! That's awful.
0:18:38 > 0:18:43So does this mean that Harry was abandoned or orphaned?
0:18:43 > 0:18:46Or maybe he ran away? Maybe it was so horrible.
0:18:46 > 0:18:50And, you know, what happened to all his brothers and sisters
0:18:50 > 0:18:52- and his mum and dad? - It's hard to say.
0:18:52 > 0:18:55I mean, what we can infer from the fact that he's here
0:18:55 > 0:18:57is that there wouldn't have been anyone
0:18:57 > 0:18:59in a position to take care of him,
0:18:59 > 0:19:02that could have been his parents or older brothers or sisters,
0:19:02 > 0:19:05but there's another document that I have for you
0:19:05 > 0:19:06that might give you some insight
0:19:06 > 0:19:09- into what's happening with his older brothers and sisters.- Oh!
0:19:12 > 0:19:14Oh. "The Middlesex Courier."
0:19:14 > 0:19:17- That's obviously a newspaper.- Yeah.
0:19:17 > 0:19:18"Second Court."
0:19:18 > 0:19:21Oh. "Kilburn Schoolboys in Trouble -
0:19:21 > 0:19:25"Harry Wotten, 51 Lowfield Road, Kilburn,
0:19:25 > 0:19:27"and Samuel Meadows..."
0:19:27 > 0:19:28That's one of...
0:19:28 > 0:19:32That's Harry's brother, elder brother.
0:19:32 > 0:19:35"The schoolboys were charged with begging in Roxborough Park
0:19:35 > 0:19:37"on Tuesday afternoon."
0:19:37 > 0:19:40I mean, they were obviously hungry.
0:19:40 > 0:19:42Now, I didn't know begging, at that time,
0:19:42 > 0:19:44was considered a crime to go to court.
0:19:49 > 0:19:51In Victorian Britain,
0:19:51 > 0:19:54begging was a crime punishable by prison.
0:19:56 > 0:19:58Harry's brother, Samuel Meadows,
0:19:58 > 0:20:01was expected to work, not beg, to get by.
0:20:02 > 0:20:05"The boy Meadows said they were out of work
0:20:05 > 0:20:07"and they rambled as far as Pinner."
0:20:07 > 0:20:08Wow, that was a long way.
0:20:10 > 0:20:11"They came back through Harrow
0:20:11 > 0:20:14"and feeling hungry and having no money..." Aw-w!
0:20:14 > 0:20:18"..they went to a house and had a cup of water and a piece of bread.
0:20:18 > 0:20:20"The case was dismissed."
0:20:20 > 0:20:23Aw-w, that's really sad.
0:20:23 > 0:20:28My great-uncle Samuel had a nice judge who dismissed it.
0:20:28 > 0:20:30- Maybe he felt a bit sorry for them.- Yeah.
0:20:30 > 0:20:33In this case, it was quite possibly taking them to court
0:20:33 > 0:20:36as a means of trying to stop them from doing it in future.
0:20:38 > 0:20:41The family had obviously got into some sort of trouble
0:20:41 > 0:20:45- if Harry was here...- Yeah. - ..in the home for the homeless
0:20:45 > 0:20:49and his elder brother Samuel was begging.
0:20:57 > 0:20:59A few years before, they were all living together.
0:20:59 > 0:21:02Yeah, they were poor, but they were all together
0:21:02 > 0:21:04with the mum and dad and brothers and sisters.
0:21:04 > 0:21:05And now we can't find them.
0:21:05 > 0:21:08We don't know what happened to my great-grandparents.
0:21:08 > 0:21:13And why were these little boys, you know, in this situation?
0:21:13 > 0:21:15I've got to go back to London and try and find out
0:21:15 > 0:21:18cos it's going to drive me mad otherwise.
0:21:28 > 0:21:31To find out why the Meadows family broke up
0:21:31 > 0:21:36and what caused Harry to end up in a boys' home and Samuel to beg,
0:21:36 > 0:21:38Twiggy's meeting a historian in Hampstead.
0:21:41 > 0:21:44Douglas Brown has been searching for the family
0:21:44 > 0:21:47in records of the poor of North London.
0:21:47 > 0:21:49- How do you do?- Hello.
0:21:49 > 0:21:54Little Harry ended up in a home for homeless boys
0:21:54 > 0:21:57and Samuel had been arrested for begging.
0:21:57 > 0:22:01I'm trying to find the rest of the family,
0:22:01 > 0:22:03including my grandma, Alice.
0:22:03 > 0:22:06OK. Well, the first thing to look at is this.
0:22:06 > 0:22:07OK.
0:22:11 > 0:22:12What is this?
0:22:12 > 0:22:15This is the Religious Creed Register.
0:22:15 > 0:22:18- Oh, the year of the book is 1892. - Mm-hm.
0:22:18 > 0:22:22Oh, Master of the Workhouse. Oh, gosh.
0:22:22 > 0:22:24So what am I looking for?
0:22:24 > 0:22:26- I'm looking for Meadows, correct? - Mm-hm.
0:22:26 > 0:22:28Maff, Marrison, M...
0:22:28 > 0:22:31- Meadows.- Mm-hm.
0:22:31 > 0:22:36Oh, actually, can I look in my book? Cos I've got their names, look.
0:22:36 > 0:22:40Grace. That's her.
0:22:40 > 0:22:42Oh, they're all here!
0:22:42 > 0:22:46So they're in the workhouse. Aw-w.
0:22:46 > 0:22:47Where?
0:22:47 > 0:22:49So Parish of St John, Hampstead.
0:22:49 > 0:22:52So there was a workhouse in Hampstead?
0:22:52 > 0:22:53Yes, that's right.
0:22:53 > 0:22:55In fact, I can...
0:22:55 > 0:22:58- I can show you. That's what it looked like, then.- Wow!
0:22:58 > 0:23:01- If we have a look... - It's actually quite beautiful.
0:23:01 > 0:23:03Oh, my goodness, it's still here!
0:23:03 > 0:23:06- Yeah.- Oh, how fantastic.
0:23:07 > 0:23:09Thank God they didn't pull it down,
0:23:09 > 0:23:11- although I'm sure it wasn't as lovely inside...- No.
0:23:11 > 0:23:14- ..being a workhouse.- These are luxury flats, now.- Are they?- Yeah.
0:23:14 > 0:23:16- How times change.- Yes, quite.
0:23:16 > 0:23:19Long before the existence of the welfare state,
0:23:19 > 0:23:24the parish workhouse was the last resort for the Victorian poor.
0:23:24 > 0:23:26To keep numbers down,
0:23:26 > 0:23:28conditions were deliberately made worse
0:23:28 > 0:23:32than the lowest standards endured by labourers outside,
0:23:32 > 0:23:36as the more people who entered, the more it cost the parish.
0:23:36 > 0:23:39Inmates had to sell all their possessions
0:23:39 > 0:23:43and were issued with uniforms that marked them out as paupers.
0:23:43 > 0:23:46Lucy was born in...
0:23:46 > 0:23:49That's right, she's '80...'85.
0:23:49 > 0:23:52So the older ones didn't go to the workhouse?
0:23:52 > 0:23:55Samuel... Oh, he would have been 13.
0:23:55 > 0:23:59And then Alice, who is my nanny, who I never met,
0:23:59 > 0:24:01she was also 12-ish,
0:24:01 > 0:24:04so she didn't go to the workhouse.
0:24:04 > 0:24:08- So we've just got the four youngest. - The younger ones.- Yeah.
0:24:08 > 0:24:11- So Frederick's there...- Yeah. So he's a toddler at this point.
0:24:11 > 0:24:13Yeah. Harry's there.
0:24:13 > 0:24:14These are the little ones.
0:24:14 > 0:24:16Lucy's there.
0:24:16 > 0:24:18And Grace.
0:24:18 > 0:24:19"Name of..."
0:24:20 > 0:24:22What does that say? "In..."
0:24:22 > 0:24:25- "Informant."- "Informant." So Grace...
0:24:25 > 0:24:27- Grace Elizabeth... - ..admitted herself.- Yeah.
0:24:27 > 0:24:31Or at least was the spokesperson for ones who were there.
0:24:31 > 0:24:33Ah, OK.
0:24:33 > 0:24:39So Grace, who's the eldest of these four, admitted them all?
0:24:39 > 0:24:41She would have been 11.
0:24:41 > 0:24:43Oh, that's really...
0:24:43 > 0:24:46- What a thing to have to take on yourself at that age.- Yeah.
0:24:46 > 0:24:48In 1892,
0:24:48 > 0:24:50only a year after they'd all been
0:24:50 > 0:24:51living together in Willesden,
0:24:51 > 0:24:53Twiggy has discovered
0:24:53 > 0:24:55that the Meadows family split apart.
0:24:57 > 0:24:58Her grandmother Alice
0:24:58 > 0:24:59and the other older siblings
0:24:59 > 0:25:02had to find work to survive,
0:25:02 > 0:25:03while their younger
0:25:03 > 0:25:04brothers and sisters -
0:25:04 > 0:25:09Grace, Lucy, Henry, also known as Harry,
0:25:09 > 0:25:12then just five, and Frederick,
0:25:12 > 0:25:16went without them into the Hampstead workhouse.
0:25:16 > 0:25:19But it doesn't say where their parents are.
0:25:19 > 0:25:21Where do you think Mum was, does it say?
0:25:21 > 0:25:26- So, have a look at this one. This is another register.- OK.
0:25:26 > 0:25:29"Name and address of parents or nearest relative...
0:25:29 > 0:25:35"1891, '93...'93, '94.
0:25:35 > 0:25:41"Mother, Elizabeth Meadows, of Loveridge Road..."
0:25:41 > 0:25:43And that's their home address, presumably.
0:25:43 > 0:25:46So from these documents,
0:25:46 > 0:25:50it appears that my great-grandmother's still alive
0:25:50 > 0:25:52but obviously not in the workhouse.
0:25:52 > 0:25:55Look at what else is happening to the other members of the family.
0:25:55 > 0:25:58Now, a little baby... Oh, God, I can't bear this.
0:25:58 > 0:26:02"Baby Frederick, 18th July, '94,
0:26:02 > 0:26:06"to the North Western Fever Hospital."
0:26:08 > 0:26:10So he came down with a fever?
0:26:10 > 0:26:13Yeah. And then there's one more family member here.
0:26:14 > 0:26:17Oh, yeah, that... Oh, Elizabeth, she's in.
0:26:17 > 0:26:18Elizabeth admitted herself.
0:26:18 > 0:26:21She's managed to stay out of the workhouse until this point.
0:26:21 > 0:26:27Aw-w. So, "Date of entry: 11th of October, '94."
0:26:28 > 0:26:30Presumably she must have known...
0:26:30 > 0:26:32Well, she would have known by then how sick Frederick was.
0:26:32 > 0:26:34Yeah, it's possible that...
0:26:34 > 0:26:36And do you think that's why she admitted herself, to be with him?
0:26:36 > 0:26:38Yeah, it's very possible.
0:26:38 > 0:26:42- That he was getting sick, she needed to look after him.- Yeah.
0:26:42 > 0:26:43- You know, he was a toddler.- OK.
0:26:43 > 0:26:45- I mean, he was two or three. - Yeah, he was a baby.
0:26:45 > 0:26:48SHE GASPS Aw-w, he died.
0:26:48 > 0:26:50Oh.
0:26:50 > 0:26:52I thought...
0:26:52 > 0:26:55- I thought that might have happened. He was so young.- Yeah.
0:26:55 > 0:26:59Oh, God, how horrible.
0:26:59 > 0:27:03Yeah. It would have been really tough and they wouldn't have...
0:27:03 > 0:27:06She wouldn't have...
0:27:06 > 0:27:09She wouldn't have put them in unless there was a crisis like this.
0:27:09 > 0:27:12Well, it must have been terrible for Elizabeth.
0:27:12 > 0:27:16You know, as a mother, I can't even imagine
0:27:16 > 0:27:18what it must have been like.
0:27:18 > 0:27:19Yeah.
0:27:19 > 0:27:22Let's have a look at the next one.
0:27:22 > 0:27:24- Four years later?- Yeah.
0:27:24 > 0:27:27Where are we? Let's find... Oh, here we are.
0:27:27 > 0:27:30"Elizabeth Meadows.
0:27:30 > 0:27:36"Date of entry: 18th of February, 1898."
0:27:38 > 0:27:42- Oh, she died...- Yeah.
0:27:43 > 0:27:48..6th June, 1898. Aw-w.
0:27:48 > 0:27:50So she died in the workhouse?
0:27:50 > 0:27:52- Yeah.- Aw-w.
0:27:54 > 0:27:59So we know poor Elizabeth died in the workhouse,
0:27:59 > 0:28:01but where's William, my great-grandfather?
0:28:01 > 0:28:03Well, keep reading over.
0:28:07 > 0:28:11"Nearest known relative: Husband," yeah, "William."
0:28:11 > 0:28:14So William's still around.
0:28:14 > 0:28:17"Remarks...deserted"!
0:28:17 > 0:28:19He left them.
0:28:19 > 0:28:22- Is that what it means, he deserted the family?- Yeah.
0:28:22 > 0:28:24Why do you think...? Well, maybe he was...
0:28:24 > 0:28:27Maybe I shouldn't judge, maybe he was desperate,
0:28:27 > 0:28:30but you don't leave seven children, sorry.
0:28:30 > 0:28:34Well, let's go back six years to this document.
0:28:34 > 0:28:37This is the minutes of the Board of Guardians,
0:28:37 > 0:28:40who were the officials who ran the system,
0:28:40 > 0:28:43- and so it's 1892.- Mm-hm.
0:28:43 > 0:28:46And have a look at these three lines here.
0:28:46 > 0:28:52- "Resolved that a reward of 40 shillings..." Right?- Yeah.
0:28:52 > 0:28:57"..be offered for the apprehension of William Meadows
0:28:57 > 0:29:00"for deserting his four children, now in the workhouse."
0:29:00 > 0:29:04He deserted the family, so it's his fault, so they wanted him.
0:29:04 > 0:29:05- So they want him back, yeah.- Wow!
0:29:05 > 0:29:08- So they're offering this reward. - Quite right.
0:29:08 > 0:29:09I'm after you, William!
0:29:14 > 0:29:18'I didn't know my grandmother Alice, my mum's mum,
0:29:18 > 0:29:21'so then I learnt about her mum and dad,
0:29:21 > 0:29:23'William and Elizabeth.
0:29:23 > 0:29:27'I think their part of the story is probably the saddest
0:29:27 > 0:29:30'because they were obviously desperately poor.'
0:29:33 > 0:29:36'My great-grandmother Elizabeth became very, very ill
0:29:36 > 0:29:38'and finally died in the workhouse
0:29:38 > 0:29:40'which...you know, the shame on the family,
0:29:40 > 0:29:43'and maybe that's why we've never heard about them,
0:29:43 > 0:29:47'maybe that shame stopped the next generation talking about it.'
0:29:50 > 0:29:52'And then her husband also deserted her,
0:29:52 > 0:29:54'which, you know,
0:29:54 > 0:29:56'obviously he was going through a terrible time,
0:29:56 > 0:29:58'couldn't feed his children,
0:29:58 > 0:30:00'but I don't think you desert your wife and kids,
0:30:00 > 0:30:03'so I don't feel too kindly towards him.'
0:30:08 > 0:30:12'I feel a little bit against him at the moment.'
0:30:15 > 0:30:18By leaving his wife and children,
0:30:18 > 0:30:21William Meadows had broken the law.
0:30:21 > 0:30:23Deemed capable of working,
0:30:23 > 0:30:25the parish held him responsible
0:30:25 > 0:30:29for the expense it was put to, feeding and housing his children.
0:30:29 > 0:30:32To find out what happened to him,
0:30:32 > 0:30:34Twiggy's come to Hampstead's Burgh House Museum
0:30:34 > 0:30:37to meet historian Professor Joanne Bailey.
0:30:37 > 0:30:39Hello!
0:30:39 > 0:30:43Joanne's found relevant court records starting in 1893.
0:30:43 > 0:30:45- 'William Meadows, there he is.- Yes.'
0:30:45 > 0:30:47"Minute of Adjudication."
0:30:47 > 0:30:49That means sentence.
0:30:49 > 0:30:51"Committed as an idle and disorderly person
0:30:51 > 0:30:54"for one calendar month with WHL."
0:30:54 > 0:30:55What's that?
0:30:55 > 0:30:57That's "with hard labour."
0:30:59 > 0:31:02What does that mean, like, digging roads, railways?
0:31:02 > 0:31:03It is.
0:31:03 > 0:31:05It's a punishment that involves hard work,
0:31:05 > 0:31:09and something like digging roads, quarrying,
0:31:09 > 0:31:11- at least had an end result to it. - Yeah.
0:31:11 > 0:31:16But increasingly there was a form of hard labour which was unproductive.
0:31:16 > 0:31:19This is a picture from Pentonville Prison.
0:31:19 > 0:31:21Yeah. What are they doing?
0:31:21 > 0:31:23This is the treadwheel that was used for hard labour.
0:31:23 > 0:31:25- What was it turning? - Well, that's the thing.
0:31:25 > 0:31:30The treadmill didn't generally have any productive point to it at all.
0:31:30 > 0:31:33To discourage him from reoffending,
0:31:33 > 0:31:37William Meadows could have been forced on and off the treadmill
0:31:37 > 0:31:39for up to ten hours a day,
0:31:39 > 0:31:43for no purpose other than to exhaust him.
0:31:43 > 0:31:46Other futile tasks included turning the crank
0:31:46 > 0:31:49which became increasingly difficult to turn
0:31:49 > 0:31:51as wardens tightened it.
0:31:51 > 0:31:55It's said this earned them their nickname - screws.
0:31:56 > 0:31:59Do we know whether it did the trick?
0:31:59 > 0:32:01- Did he ever come back?! - Well, I'll show you...
0:32:01 > 0:32:04I'll show you the next record that we have.
0:32:04 > 0:32:07- This one is '98, so that's... - That's right.- ..five years later.
0:32:07 > 0:32:08Yes.
0:32:08 > 0:32:12- "William Meadows," the same guy checked him in.- Yes.
0:32:12 > 0:32:15"Not you again!" OK.
0:32:15 > 0:32:19"Nature of offence: Refusing to maintain his wife,
0:32:19 > 0:32:21- "chargeable to the parish."- Yes.
0:32:21 > 0:32:23So my great-grand...
0:32:23 > 0:32:28Yeah, I think my memory is that she died in '98 at some point,
0:32:28 > 0:32:32- so she's still alive but very, very ill.- Yes.
0:32:32 > 0:32:35And presumably what the parish is trying to do
0:32:35 > 0:32:38is to get payment for her time in the workhouse
0:32:38 > 0:32:42and presumably for the costs incurred with her illness.
0:32:42 > 0:32:46"Committed for three calendar months
0:32:46 > 0:32:50"with hard labour as a rogue and vagabond."
0:32:50 > 0:32:51What does that mean?
0:32:51 > 0:32:52It means he's moved up
0:32:52 > 0:32:56- the next stage of...- Badness! - ..the category of vagrant. Yes!
0:32:56 > 0:32:59So you start as an idle and disorderly person,
0:32:59 > 0:33:03then if you offend again, you become a rogue and a vagabond,
0:33:03 > 0:33:06and, of course, what that means
0:33:06 > 0:33:09- is you get a harsher penalty. - Sentence.
0:33:09 > 0:33:12- So in this case it's three months.- Mm.
0:33:12 > 0:33:16So why do you think my great-grandfather William
0:33:16 > 0:33:18kept reoffending?
0:33:18 > 0:33:20It really might be about desperation,
0:33:20 > 0:33:22it might be about lack of work.
0:33:23 > 0:33:28William Meadows was listed on the 1891 Census as a slater -
0:33:28 > 0:33:32heavy work, lifting and laying roof tiles.
0:33:32 > 0:33:35It was poorly paid and seasonal.
0:33:35 > 0:33:38It's likely the family could barely make ends meet
0:33:38 > 0:33:40when William was in employment,
0:33:40 > 0:33:43let alone when he was short of work.
0:33:43 > 0:33:46- It must have become overwhelming, mustn't it?- That's right.
0:33:46 > 0:33:50Cos they had seven children and four of them were really young.
0:33:50 > 0:33:53If he can't work, he can't make a living.
0:33:53 > 0:33:54There is, you know...
0:33:54 > 0:33:58As I said, it becomes a complete vicious circle, doesn't it?
0:33:58 > 0:34:00- Yes, that's it.- Unbelievable.
0:34:00 > 0:34:02Was that the pattern of his life, do you think?
0:34:02 > 0:34:05Do you think it just...? Do we know whether it continued?
0:34:05 > 0:34:09- Well, the next record that I have to show you...- Oh, gosh!
0:34:09 > 0:34:10What's this?
0:34:10 > 0:34:13- So, here we know...- Oh, dear!
0:34:13 > 0:34:17- "Copy Entry Of Death." It's a death certificate.- Yes. And...
0:34:17 > 0:34:19"1905. William Meadows."
0:34:19 > 0:34:22Oh, he was 58. Wow.
0:34:23 > 0:34:26"Slater from Marylebone Workhouse."
0:34:26 > 0:34:28Oh, so he ended up in the workhouse.
0:34:28 > 0:34:32Oh, not surprisingly. Aw-w.
0:34:32 > 0:34:34"Cause of death:
0:34:34 > 0:34:37"Strangulated hernia
0:34:37 > 0:34:42"and suppurative peritonitis."
0:34:42 > 0:34:45The interesting thing is when you think about a hernia,
0:34:45 > 0:34:49a hernia is caused by, you know, carrying heavy weights...
0:34:49 > 0:34:51- Heavy weights.- ..and it does make you wonder
0:34:51 > 0:34:54how long this was a problem for him.
0:34:54 > 0:34:57This is, you know, something which would have limited his ability
0:34:57 > 0:34:59- to work as a slater...- Of course. - ..or a labourer before that.
0:34:59 > 0:35:03- And surely the heavy work probably caused it, right?- Yes.
0:35:03 > 0:35:05So, it's interesting to me
0:35:05 > 0:35:10because although I didn't actually meet my grandmother,
0:35:10 > 0:35:12Alice,
0:35:12 > 0:35:15this is, you know, her family.
0:35:15 > 0:35:18- It's not that long ago, really, is it?- It isn't, so...
0:35:18 > 0:35:20So do we know about his family?
0:35:20 > 0:35:23- Well, I've got one more record to show you.- Wow!
0:35:25 > 0:35:29A page from the Old Bailey Calendar of Prisoners.
0:35:29 > 0:35:34- Oh, gosh! We're there again, are we?! - We are!- Oh, dear!
0:35:34 > 0:35:38And again we have the names of the offenders in this column.
0:35:38 > 0:35:40Oh, God! "Meadows...Grace."
0:35:40 > 0:35:43- Grace Meadows!- Yes.- Mother? - Yes.- Sister?
0:35:43 > 0:35:45- Mother?- Mother.
0:35:45 > 0:35:46- And she's an offender?- Yeah.
0:35:46 > 0:35:48Oh, God! Poor chap.
0:35:48 > 0:35:52So that's my great-great-grandmother.
0:35:52 > 0:35:54Oh, goodness, what has she done?
0:35:54 > 0:35:56And this is 1862.
0:35:56 > 0:35:59- So this is what she was charged with.- That's right.
0:35:59 > 0:36:02"Unlawfully uttering counterfeit coin
0:36:02 > 0:36:06"well knowing the same to be counterfeit."
0:36:06 > 0:36:10And the sentence of the order of court...
0:36:10 > 0:36:14"Six months house of correction, Westminster."
0:36:14 > 0:36:17So is that...? She got sent to jail?
0:36:17 > 0:36:19So where do I go now?
0:36:20 > 0:36:22The criminal records
0:36:22 > 0:36:23of her Meadows ancestors
0:36:23 > 0:36:25have brought Twiggy a generation
0:36:25 > 0:36:27further up her maternal line
0:36:27 > 0:36:29to her great-great-grandmother,
0:36:29 > 0:36:31Grace Meadows,
0:36:31 > 0:36:34who, like her son, was imprisoned.
0:36:34 > 0:36:36Her crime involved
0:36:36 > 0:36:37counterfeit coins.
0:36:46 > 0:36:47At the British Museum,
0:36:47 > 0:36:50which holds a large collection of historical coins,
0:36:50 > 0:36:53Twiggy's meeting Professor Barry Godfrey.
0:36:53 > 0:36:56He specialises in the history of crime.
0:36:56 > 0:36:58- Hello.- Morning, nice to meet you.
0:36:58 > 0:37:00- Nice to meet you. - It's a beautiful day.- Gorgeous.
0:37:00 > 0:37:03- If you come through to the... - Thank you.
0:37:05 > 0:37:09So I've just found out that my great-great-grandmother,
0:37:09 > 0:37:11Grace Meadows,
0:37:11 > 0:37:18- was arrested for unlawfully "uttering" counterfeit coins.- OK.
0:37:18 > 0:37:20What does that mean, "uttering"?
0:37:20 > 0:37:22OK, it's a good question.
0:37:22 > 0:37:24You've got counterfeiting and uttering.
0:37:24 > 0:37:27- Counterfeiting is making fake coins.- OK.
0:37:27 > 0:37:30Uttering is passing them on to members of the public,
0:37:30 > 0:37:32- so distributing.- OK, so using them to buy things?
0:37:32 > 0:37:34- Using them, that's it. That's exactly it.- OK.
0:37:34 > 0:37:36- Can I show you some of the coins? - Yes, please.
0:37:36 > 0:37:39We need to take a few precautions.
0:37:39 > 0:37:41- Oh, I get... Ooh!- Yeah. - Ooh, it matches me jacket!
0:37:41 > 0:37:43Lovely. Very stylish!
0:37:43 > 0:37:46And some coin-doms for me.
0:37:48 > 0:37:51Have a look at this rather beautiful gold one, there.
0:37:51 > 0:37:53- I need my glasses. - You'll need your glasses,
0:37:53 > 0:37:57- because the detail's just so fine. - Yeah. Ooh, lovely. That's beautiful.
0:37:58 > 0:37:59They are quite tremendous,
0:37:59 > 0:38:02- but people were desperate to copy these.- Yeah.
0:38:02 > 0:38:05If you flip it over, you'll see it should have Victoria on the back.
0:38:05 > 0:38:07Oh, yeah, it's beautiful.
0:38:07 > 0:38:09But the counterfeit ones aren't quite as...
0:38:09 > 0:38:12- as graceful.- Have we got one?- Yep. We'll have a look at some of those.
0:38:14 > 0:38:16And here's some of the counterfeit ones
0:38:16 > 0:38:18we've got from the British Museum.
0:38:19 > 0:38:21And there...
0:38:24 > 0:38:26- ..is something which is supposed to be similar to that.- Oh, OK.
0:38:26 > 0:38:28- Okey-doke.- And these...
0:38:28 > 0:38:31- Oh, yeah, it's lighter. - ..you can see the difference.
0:38:31 > 0:38:32And look at the colour.
0:38:32 > 0:38:36In comparison, the real one almost looks kind of rose goldy.
0:38:36 > 0:38:38And why has it got that big slice in it?
0:38:38 > 0:38:39Well, it's been crimped
0:38:39 > 0:38:42to see whether it's of the right base metal or not.
0:38:42 > 0:38:45- Oh, I see.- Actually, you can see there...
0:38:45 > 0:38:47- Can you see this silver... - Yeah.- ..showing through?
0:38:47 > 0:38:50Shows this has been probably electroplated.
0:38:50 > 0:38:53- Oh, I see. - So it's a base metal...
0:38:53 > 0:38:55- OK.- ..that's had something put over the top of it,
0:38:55 > 0:38:56but it's not quite doing the job.
0:38:56 > 0:38:58Obviously someone had suspicions
0:38:58 > 0:39:00- and that's how they've tested it.- OK.
0:39:00 > 0:39:02That's another one.
0:39:02 > 0:39:05That is a fake silver whatever... What's the coin?
0:39:05 > 0:39:07- It's a florin.- A florin, OK.
0:39:07 > 0:39:10But if you could get away with passing that
0:39:10 > 0:39:12- then you were effectively making money, you know.- That's true.
0:39:12 > 0:39:14This is worthless
0:39:14 > 0:39:16and you're passing it over for pieces of gold and silver.
0:39:16 > 0:39:20- And did some people get away with it? - Loads of people must have got away with it.- Wow!
0:39:20 > 0:39:23So how would my great-great-grandmother
0:39:23 > 0:39:26have made her money?
0:39:26 > 0:39:29Well, she probably would have purchased coins,
0:39:29 > 0:39:33- high value coins...- Oh, OK. - ..not for the full value of the coin itself,
0:39:33 > 0:39:35and then she will be passing it on, getting the goods,
0:39:35 > 0:39:38- getting some of the change back... - Oh, yeah.
0:39:38 > 0:39:40..so she's making a little bit of money there.
0:39:40 > 0:39:42So if you think of it a bit like the drugs trade is now.
0:39:42 > 0:39:46- We have the Mr Bigs at the top... - It's very similar, isn't it?
0:39:46 > 0:39:47Very similar to that.
0:39:47 > 0:39:50Then you get right to the bottom, you get people like Grace,
0:39:50 > 0:39:52who are the people who are running all of the risks,
0:39:52 > 0:39:55who are really vulnerable to being picked up by the police.
0:39:55 > 0:39:57Maybe that's why they used women?
0:39:57 > 0:39:59Would they look more trustworthy?
0:39:59 > 0:40:01- You know, if a woman had a nice... - It's a female crime.
0:40:01 > 0:40:04- It is!- It's overwhelmingly a female crime.- That's interesting.
0:40:04 > 0:40:08- I bet that's what they thought. - Women are the ones who are shopping. - Yeah.
0:40:08 > 0:40:10Women are the ones who are supposed to be more respectable,
0:40:10 > 0:40:12and less criminal,
0:40:12 > 0:40:13but also women are domestic servants,
0:40:13 > 0:40:16who might be sent out with coins to go and get things
0:40:16 > 0:40:18- for their masters or mistresses. - Ah, how interesting.
0:40:18 > 0:40:20So they're the ones who are doing all of this business.
0:40:20 > 0:40:23She may have been considered what the Victorians called
0:40:23 > 0:40:25the professional criminal classes.
0:40:25 > 0:40:28You know, society was so harsh in those days,
0:40:28 > 0:40:30especially on the poor classes.
0:40:30 > 0:40:32Society was unfair.
0:40:32 > 0:40:35Grace's life probably wasn't a very rosy one.
0:40:35 > 0:40:37My great-grandfather died in the workhouse
0:40:37 > 0:40:41and my great-grandmother did, so they were poverty-stricken.
0:40:41 > 0:40:44- And this is his mum.- OK.
0:40:44 > 0:40:47So I was wondering if that poverty had come from her
0:40:47 > 0:40:50- and it sounds like it more than likely...- Yeah,
0:40:50 > 0:40:51I mean, these are crimes of need
0:40:51 > 0:40:53but they're also a form of employment.
0:40:53 > 0:40:56- It's criminal, but your alternatives might be prostitution.- Mm-hm.
0:40:56 > 0:40:58In 1862,
0:40:58 > 0:40:59when Grace Meadows
0:40:59 > 0:41:00committed her crime,
0:41:00 > 0:41:02she was married
0:41:02 > 0:41:03and a mother to five children
0:41:03 > 0:41:05under the age of ten,
0:41:05 > 0:41:07in addition to her eldest son,
0:41:07 > 0:41:09Twiggy's great-grandfather, William.
0:41:12 > 0:41:14Women with as many small children as Grace
0:41:14 > 0:41:16could seldom take steady paid work.
0:41:16 > 0:41:19So if their husbands couldn't support them,
0:41:19 > 0:41:22their options included the workhouse and crime.
0:41:22 > 0:41:25Do we know anything more about Grace?
0:41:25 > 0:41:27Well, we're lucky because we do have some documents that tell us
0:41:27 > 0:41:30just a little bit more about Grace's life.
0:41:30 > 0:41:32Good. Can I take this off?
0:41:32 > 0:41:34You can take that off now, yeah.
0:41:36 > 0:41:39Now these are the Sessions papers of the Old Bailey.
0:41:39 > 0:41:43- Oh-h!- And this is from the year 1862.
0:41:45 > 0:41:48Oh, so this is the one I saw the shortened version of?
0:41:48 > 0:41:49You'll have seen a little summary...
0:41:49 > 0:41:52- Yeah.- ..and we get a lot more detail here.- Oh.
0:41:52 > 0:41:54Have a look here, this is the statement of Rebecca Dawson,
0:41:54 > 0:41:57- one of the witnesses. - She was one that she tried...
0:41:57 > 0:41:58- She was a victim, really.- Yeah.
0:41:58 > 0:42:00"On 25th November,
0:42:00 > 0:42:04"about half-past eight in the morning the prisoner came for
0:42:04 > 0:42:09"a farthing boot-lace, a child's neck scarf and two pocket handkerchiefs.
0:42:09 > 0:42:12"She paid me for the boot-lace first with a farthing
0:42:12 > 0:42:15"and asked me for change, which I gave her.
0:42:15 > 0:42:19"Mr Parks came back with it in his hand and said it was bad."
0:42:19 > 0:42:21- So this is the shop owner? - So this is the shop owner, yeah.
0:42:21 > 0:42:25And then, of course, they go off, find a police officer and...
0:42:25 > 0:42:26And she gets arrested.
0:42:26 > 0:42:29..Grace is arrested. She's tracked down.
0:42:29 > 0:42:32- There's a little bit more here... - Hold on.
0:42:32 > 0:42:33..about her arrest.
0:42:33 > 0:42:35Oh, this is another witness.
0:42:35 > 0:42:38"I do not know where she was in the morning,
0:42:38 > 0:42:42"she is a hard-working woman and keeps at home with her children."
0:42:42 > 0:42:46And then it says, "The prisoner received a good character."
0:42:46 > 0:42:48Aw-w, that's nice.
0:42:48 > 0:42:51And then it says, "Guilty on the first, second and third counts,
0:42:51 > 0:42:55"recommended to mercy by the jury on account of her family."
0:42:55 > 0:42:58So she could have got more than the six months?
0:42:58 > 0:43:01She could have got more than that, but for every mother that
0:43:01 > 0:43:04goes into prison, the children have to be looked after
0:43:04 > 0:43:06- and they have to go into the workhouse...- Oh, God,
0:43:06 > 0:43:09- back to the workhouse.- ..or thrown on to the relief of the parish.
0:43:09 > 0:43:10So, er, it's a desperate thing
0:43:10 > 0:43:12- for women going to prison at this time.- Yeah.
0:43:15 > 0:43:18There's no doubt that Grace,
0:43:18 > 0:43:21my great-great-grandmother, was a criminal,
0:43:21 > 0:43:27but I have to think that she was a goodie in horrible circumstances,
0:43:27 > 0:43:32I hope, I can't believe in my heart that she...
0:43:32 > 0:43:34I mean, she didn't kill anybody,
0:43:34 > 0:43:37she didn't break into somebody's house and steal anything.
0:43:37 > 0:43:40She was just trying to earn a crust, bless her.
0:43:42 > 0:43:45I'd like to know did she reoffend?
0:43:45 > 0:43:48Did it get better or did it go downhill?
0:43:58 > 0:44:01In nearby Clerkenwell Green,
0:44:01 > 0:44:03Twiggy's meeting Professor Dick Hobbs.
0:44:07 > 0:44:10Dick has researched what happened to Grace
0:44:10 > 0:44:13after she'd served her time for passing counterfeit coins.
0:44:15 > 0:44:20I'd like to know what happened, when she came out, to her and her family.
0:44:20 > 0:44:25Did she learn her lesson and stop committing crime?
0:44:25 > 0:44:26Well, things moved on.
0:44:26 > 0:44:34This is "Lloyd's Weekly London Newspaper, Sunday July 12th, 1874.
0:44:34 > 0:44:38"Police intelligence, a mother and daughter stealing banknotes."
0:44:38 > 0:44:39Oh, dear.
0:44:39 > 0:44:43"Grace Meadows, 50, and Lucy Meadows, 14,
0:44:43 > 0:44:48"mother and child, living at 51 Sewardstone Road, Old Ford..."
0:44:48 > 0:44:50- which is East End, right? - Yeah, very much.
0:44:50 > 0:44:55"..were charged on remand with being concerned together in stealing
0:44:55 > 0:44:57"three Bank of England notes..." Ooh!
0:44:57 > 0:45:02"..for £20 each, one for £5, and £6 in gold,
0:45:02 > 0:45:06"the moneys of Charles Pragnell.
0:45:06 > 0:45:09"The evidence showed that the prisoner, Lucy Meadows, was
0:45:09 > 0:45:13"in the service of the prosecutor..." which is Pragnell, right?
0:45:13 > 0:45:16- Yes.- Oh, so Lucy worked...
0:45:16 > 0:45:17- Yep.- ..for somebody.
0:45:17 > 0:45:21Yeah, she worked... she worked for, er, for Pragnell.
0:45:21 > 0:45:25Oh, I see, and she stole the money, his money?
0:45:25 > 0:45:28That's what they're saying, yeah.
0:45:28 > 0:45:32Ah! "Lucy Meadows had been in the service of the prosecutor
0:45:32 > 0:45:35"as servant girl and on 22nd June
0:45:35 > 0:45:36"he left the house in the girl's charge
0:45:36 > 0:45:38"whilst he and his wife went out.
0:45:38 > 0:45:41"On his return, the prosecutor on going upstairs found that
0:45:41 > 0:45:45"the staircase window was open whereas he had left it shut."
0:45:45 > 0:45:49Yeah, so, basically, we're at a point now where it's a burglary.
0:45:49 > 0:45:52You know, it's a burglary, but Lucy...
0:45:52 > 0:45:53Worked in the house.
0:45:53 > 0:45:55..worked in the... worked in the house, yeah.
0:45:55 > 0:45:58"A box in his wife's bedroom was open
0:45:58 > 0:46:00"and then it was discovered that a cash box,
0:46:00 > 0:46:02"left in the larger box,
0:46:02 > 0:46:05"had been forced open and the money in question stolen.
0:46:05 > 0:46:08"Some days afterwards, one of the £20 notes,
0:46:08 > 0:46:14"the numbers of which the prosecutor had obtained after the robbery,
0:46:14 > 0:46:16"was found to have been paid into the Bank of England.
0:46:16 > 0:46:21"It was traced back to a witness, the wife of a rate collector.
0:46:21 > 0:46:22"Grace Meadows,
0:46:22 > 0:46:26"it was proved, had paid it for taxes two days after the robbery."
0:46:26 > 0:46:28So she needed to pay her taxes.
0:46:28 > 0:46:30She needs to pay taxes and,
0:46:30 > 0:46:32and that's how... that's how they've traced it.
0:46:32 > 0:46:34Oh, I see.
0:46:34 > 0:46:37"The prisoners were then committed for trial."
0:46:37 > 0:46:40- Oh, dear.- And the trial was here...
0:46:40 > 0:46:43- Oh!- ..in this building. This is...this is why we're here.
0:46:43 > 0:46:47Oh, my goodness! So this was a courthouse?
0:46:47 > 0:46:50- Yes. Clerkenwell Green. - Oh, wow! It's an amazing building.
0:46:50 > 0:46:53Just...just on the edge of it. Just on the edge of it.
0:46:53 > 0:46:57- So my great-great-grandmother was here.- Was here. Yeah.- Wow.
0:46:57 > 0:47:01- Yeah.- Not in the happiest of circumstances.
0:47:01 > 0:47:03No, she wouldn't have been too pleased.
0:47:03 > 0:47:05Aw. Oh, dear. Do I want to know what happened?
0:47:05 > 0:47:08- So, then we, um... - Oh, it's not going to be nice.- So...
0:47:08 > 0:47:10here's a statement.
0:47:10 > 0:47:16"Thereupon Grace says the child knows nothing about it."
0:47:16 > 0:47:18- That's Lucy?- Yeah.- So she's saying,
0:47:18 > 0:47:20"My daughter had nothing to do with it"?
0:47:20 > 0:47:22Absolutely. She's clearing Lucy, she's taking responsibility.
0:47:22 > 0:47:25- Ah, that's nice. Cos she was only 14, wasn't she?- She was just a kid.
0:47:25 > 0:47:28Because Mum said she was nothing to do with it...
0:47:28 > 0:47:31- Yep.- ..um, they discharged...- Lucy's free. Yeah, no problem with Lucy.
0:47:31 > 0:47:34Oh, that's... Well, that... Well, that's nice. Yeah.
0:47:34 > 0:47:39Oh, that's... "Several previous convictions having been
0:47:39 > 0:47:42"proved against the prisoner, she was sentenced
0:47:42 > 0:47:45"to two years' hard labour."
0:47:45 > 0:47:49Oh-h, poor Grace. That's horrible.
0:47:49 > 0:47:52I mean, this isn't... this isn't petty crime.
0:47:52 > 0:47:54This is...this is a lot of money.
0:47:54 > 0:47:58It's the...it's the equivalent of about £5,600 in today's money.
0:47:58 > 0:48:00Oh, my God!
0:48:00 > 0:48:03- I mean, people then were earning shillings a week.- Wow!
0:48:03 > 0:48:04A pound would have been a lot of money.
0:48:04 > 0:48:07Yeah, it was a serious crime and hard labour was, er,
0:48:07 > 0:48:10was quite common for these... for these crimes.
0:48:10 > 0:48:11Even for women?
0:48:11 > 0:48:13Yeah, for women, very, very common indeed
0:48:13 > 0:48:15and it really was hard labour.
0:48:23 > 0:48:27Her son William, he did hard labour and it was pretty awful,
0:48:27 > 0:48:29but he did, like, six months at the time,
0:48:29 > 0:48:31but two years is a long time.
0:48:31 > 0:48:33- Two years is a long... - And a woman!- Yeah.
0:48:45 > 0:48:46Where is this? Oh, my God!
0:48:46 > 0:48:50- Well, we're in the, er, we're in the basement of the court now.- Yeah. OK.
0:48:50 > 0:48:53This would have been the holding cell, and this is where Grace
0:48:53 > 0:48:55would have been held before she went off to serve her sentence.
0:48:55 > 0:48:58- So she'd have been brought down from the court...- Yep.
0:48:58 > 0:49:00..she wouldn't have seen her family, presumably?
0:49:00 > 0:49:02No, she wouldn't have seen her family.
0:49:02 > 0:49:04She'd have been brought straight down here, held here
0:49:04 > 0:49:06- and then taken off to prison. - Oh, my goodness.
0:49:06 > 0:49:07That would have been it.
0:49:07 > 0:49:13We've got some pictures here of what it was like for her.
0:49:13 > 0:49:15Oh, wow!
0:49:17 > 0:49:19"Workroom on the silent system
0:49:19 > 0:49:21"at the House of Correction, Tothill Fields."
0:49:21 > 0:49:24What does silent system mean?
0:49:24 > 0:49:26The work that they were carrying out
0:49:26 > 0:49:28was carried out literally in silence.
0:49:28 > 0:49:30For six hours a day, they would work in silence,
0:49:30 > 0:49:33- they were not allowed to speak to anyone.- Really?
0:49:33 > 0:49:35And you can see the people round the edges were there
0:49:35 > 0:49:38to enforce that, these were the guards. That was the...
0:49:38 > 0:49:40- Oh, they're the guards.- Yep.
0:49:40 > 0:49:44Here, we've got an example of what they're...they're doing.
0:49:44 > 0:49:48They're picking oakum, and oakum was, you know the saying,
0:49:48 > 0:49:50- "Money for old rope"?- Yeah.
0:49:50 > 0:49:53- Well, oakum was old rope.- Oh, I see.
0:49:53 > 0:49:55And they made money from it.
0:49:55 > 0:49:58So they unpicked the rope and turned it into
0:49:58 > 0:50:02this rather fluffy substance that we can see there.
0:50:02 > 0:50:04And what was oakum used for?
0:50:04 > 0:50:05It was used in between the planking
0:50:05 > 0:50:09and wooden ships to seal it with tar, to seal it, and it was
0:50:09 > 0:50:14also used on joints for plumbing to seal the joint,
0:50:14 > 0:50:16so it had a value.
0:50:16 > 0:50:18They turned something that was useless, old rope...
0:50:18 > 0:50:21- Old rope. - ..they turned it into money.
0:50:21 > 0:50:24And we've actually got the opportunity for you to...
0:50:24 > 0:50:29- Oh, thank you(!)- ..to have a go at picking...at picking the oakum.
0:50:29 > 0:50:31There's a piece of old rope for you.
0:50:31 > 0:50:33- That's money for old rope. - Money for old rope.
0:50:33 > 0:50:36- Oh, it's really sticky, isn't it? - It is very harsh.
0:50:36 > 0:50:38- Ugh...ugh...- That's it.
0:50:38 > 0:50:42It feels like... You know what it feels like, it feels like, um,
0:50:42 > 0:50:44- wire wool.- Yeah, yeah.
0:50:47 > 0:50:49God! But their finger must have been raw.
0:50:49 > 0:50:51Yeah, it would have been, yeah.
0:50:51 > 0:50:54This was their task for two years, for Grace's case for two years,
0:50:54 > 0:50:56- it's what she had to do. - It's unbelievable.
0:50:56 > 0:51:00I've got a feeling it can't be a happy ending,
0:51:00 > 0:51:02having two years in this.
0:51:06 > 0:51:08I feel quite angry. I feel really sad
0:51:08 > 0:51:12cos my great-great-grandmother went through that,
0:51:12 > 0:51:16but I'd really like to know if she came out,
0:51:16 > 0:51:17how she was when she came out.
0:51:19 > 0:51:21Did she go on offending,
0:51:21 > 0:51:24or did she get back to her family?
0:51:24 > 0:51:26I... That's what I'd like to know.
0:51:36 > 0:51:37Twiggy's come to East London
0:51:37 > 0:51:40where her great-great-grandmother Grace had lived
0:51:40 > 0:51:42when she wasn't in prison.
0:51:43 > 0:51:47I know that she came out from there
0:51:47 > 0:51:51and I don't know what happened next to her, so I've come to Hackney
0:51:51 > 0:51:53to try and find out.
0:51:56 > 0:52:00She's meeting Professor Clive Emsley on Hackney's Mare Street.
0:52:00 > 0:52:03- Twiggy. Nice to meet you. - Hi. Good to see you.
0:52:03 > 0:52:08- Well, here she is in the 1881 Census.- OK.
0:52:08 > 0:52:14- So this is in Dalston Road... - Yeah.- ..which is in Hackney.
0:52:14 > 0:52:19- Grace Gillies. Is that her? - That's her. Back to her maiden name.
0:52:19 > 0:52:23- Oh!- People often use both names, yeah.
0:52:23 > 0:52:25And it says she's head of the family, so...
0:52:25 > 0:52:27Well, head of the household.
0:52:27 > 0:52:34And in the house was Sarah, daughter, John, son, Robert, son,
0:52:34 > 0:52:39and then Daniel Crackett, boarder.
0:52:39 > 0:52:42Oh! She...she let rooms.
0:52:42 > 0:52:44A policeman!
0:52:45 > 0:52:46That's hysterical.
0:52:46 > 0:52:48Well, yeah, he's a...
0:52:51 > 0:52:53- That's really funny.- Um...
0:52:53 > 0:52:56I mean, if you did that in a programme, they'd...
0:52:56 > 0:52:59- They might laugh, yeah. - ..come out of jail for hard labour
0:52:59 > 0:53:03and you board a police... Do you think he knew she was an ex-con?
0:53:03 > 0:53:05- Er, quite possibly, yeah. - TWIGGY LAUGHS
0:53:08 > 0:53:10That's brilliant! Absolutely brilliant.
0:53:10 > 0:53:14She's clearly going straight. It's quite rare.
0:53:14 > 0:53:17It's very, very difficult for a woman to go straight
0:53:17 > 0:53:20- in the 19th century.- Oh, really? Wow.
0:53:20 > 0:53:23Repeat offending by women is colossal.
0:53:23 > 0:53:27So what my great-great-grandmother did was quite unusual?
0:53:27 > 0:53:31To come out of two years' hard labour and then turn her back to crime...
0:53:31 > 0:53:34- It's... It is... - ..to become a respectable landlady.
0:53:34 > 0:53:36You're a respectable landlady, yeah, yeah.
0:53:36 > 0:53:41And this is the next Census, 1891.
0:53:41 > 0:53:43- OK, so they'd moved.- Yeah.
0:53:43 > 0:53:46Brett Road which is, oh, still in Hackney,
0:53:46 > 0:53:49so they're still in the East End. Now where is she?
0:53:49 > 0:53:57Grace Gillies, head, age 62, yes, she's ten years older, er...
0:53:57 > 0:54:02Oh, the... Robert, the son is 22, yeah. I can't read it all.
0:54:02 > 0:54:05- That's Maud.- Maud...
0:54:05 > 0:54:08- Grandchild.- Oh!
0:54:08 > 0:54:11- Maud...- Crackett.- Crackett.
0:54:11 > 0:54:14- Now here's an interesting thing... - Very Dickensian.
0:54:14 > 0:54:17..look at the name of the policeman we picked up over here.
0:54:17 > 0:54:20Oh-h! We've got a TV series here!
0:54:20 > 0:54:23- Daniel Crackett.- Oh, my goodness!
0:54:23 > 0:54:27He fell in love with her daughter! How romantic! And they had a baby.
0:54:27 > 0:54:29Well, they actually got married.
0:54:29 > 0:54:34Aw-w! Aw, that's lovely. She married a policeman.
0:54:34 > 0:54:36- Aw, it's a romance.- It is.
0:54:36 > 0:54:38I mean, this is brilliant.
0:54:38 > 0:54:40I never guessed this in a million years.
0:54:40 > 0:54:43I thought it was going to just dive downhill rapidly.
0:54:43 > 0:54:47- So...so we're 1891, right?- Yeah.
0:54:47 > 0:54:53Grace, my great-great-grandmother, is 62, renting her rooms to policemen.
0:54:53 > 0:54:55Brilliant. Did she stay on the straight and narrow
0:54:55 > 0:54:59- or did she revert back to crime? - Well, she certainly seems to have...
0:54:59 > 0:55:03- Brilliant.- ..stayed straight and there's some more information.
0:55:03 > 0:55:07Some more. What, she's in the paper again?
0:55:07 > 0:55:08She's in the paper again.
0:55:08 > 0:55:11She was famous, my great-great-grandmother,
0:55:11 > 0:55:13not for always the right reasons.
0:55:14 > 0:55:17Oh, my goodness! Oh my gosh!
0:55:17 > 0:55:21"The Western Gazette, Friday, August 20th, 1897,
0:55:21 > 0:55:24"killed at a bargain sale!"
0:55:24 > 0:55:27Oh, I shouldn't laugh. TWIGGY GASPS
0:55:27 > 0:55:30"An inquest was held at Hackney on Tuesday
0:55:30 > 0:55:33"respecting the death of Grace Gillies, aged 69,
0:55:33 > 0:55:36"who died during a great crush.
0:55:36 > 0:55:40"On Saturday morning, she attended a great sale at Messrs MacIlroys shop,
0:55:40 > 0:55:44"333 to 339 Mare Street, Hackney."
0:55:44 > 0:55:46- Which is...- Where we're sitting.
0:55:46 > 0:55:49- Yeah.- We're on Mare Street. - Yeah.- Wow!
0:55:49 > 0:55:52"It was the first day of a great clearance sale
0:55:52 > 0:55:55"and the doors were to be opened at eight o'clock.
0:55:55 > 0:55:59"She appeared to be very ill and on being assisted to a seat said,
0:55:59 > 0:56:02"'I have been beaten this time.'"
0:56:02 > 0:56:05- She went to a sale and...- Yeah. - ..she'd had a heart attack.
0:56:05 > 0:56:09They say your life flashes, you know, in front of you,
0:56:09 > 0:56:11she must have thought, "Well, I got...
0:56:11 > 0:56:16"I got through all my criminal life, got through hard labour,
0:56:16 > 0:56:22- "became a respectable landlady, but the sale got her."- Yes.
0:56:22 > 0:56:23THEY LAUGH
0:56:23 > 0:56:27Aw, bless her heart. Amazing.
0:56:32 > 0:56:35You know, I've always wanted to know about my ancestry
0:56:35 > 0:56:37and I never have.
0:56:37 > 0:56:43Before I did this programme, beyond grandmother Alice, it was blank,
0:56:43 > 0:56:48and now I've got a picture of these characters of my mum's line.
0:56:48 > 0:56:55Er, I'm looking for 333.
0:56:56 > 0:57:00'I mean, I think what this has shown to me is...
0:57:01 > 0:57:06'..that the women in my family are incredibly strong women.
0:57:06 > 0:57:10'I feel akin to them when I'm learning about them.'
0:57:13 > 0:57:18So this would have been 333... SIREN WAILS
0:57:18 > 0:57:23..where my great-great-grandmother came to a bargain sale...
0:57:24 > 0:57:27..and got crushed and died.
0:57:27 > 0:57:29What a way to go, in a way...
0:57:30 > 0:57:32..but amazing to think...
0:57:33 > 0:57:36..my...four generations ago from me,
0:57:36 > 0:57:39she was walking in here...
0:57:40 > 0:57:42..to a bargain sale.
0:57:46 > 0:57:50'I really do feel proud of my ancestors,
0:57:50 > 0:57:51'of what I've learnt about them.
0:57:51 > 0:57:54'I've found it fascinating...
0:57:55 > 0:57:59'..extraordinary in places, very sad in other places.
0:58:00 > 0:58:05'I grew up in a working-class family, but I wouldn't call us poor.
0:58:05 > 0:58:07'My dad had a good job.
0:58:07 > 0:58:11'So my grandmother Alice, when you think of it,
0:58:11 > 0:58:15'she and her husband Alfred were the first two
0:58:15 > 0:58:18'to come out of that terrible poor family'
0:58:18 > 0:58:20syndrome, really.
0:58:21 > 0:58:25And I'm a very lucky girl sitting here is all I can say,
0:58:25 > 0:58:29that I wasn't born 150 years ago.