0:00:04 > 0:00:08Actress Tamzin Outhwaite is known for her role as
0:00:08 > 0:00:11Detective Chief Inspector Sasha Miller in the
0:00:11 > 0:00:15BBC's popular crime series New Tricks.
0:00:15 > 0:00:18Alessandro Manzini, 65, he'd been drinking.
0:00:18 > 0:00:21He's knifed in the throat and his body's stuffed upside down
0:00:21 > 0:00:24in a water bath which then freezes solid overnight
0:00:24 > 0:00:26as the temperature drops below zero.
0:00:26 > 0:00:29Has to be thawed out before the PM can take place.
0:00:29 > 0:00:31Don't get one of these every day of the week.
0:00:31 > 0:00:33So, what do you think?
0:00:33 > 0:00:35EXPLOSION
0:00:39 > 0:00:42But Tamzin is probably best remembered for her
0:00:42 > 0:00:45role as Mel in EastEnders.
0:00:45 > 0:00:48Move, all of you! Get out!
0:00:52 > 0:00:53Noooo!
0:00:56 > 0:01:00My family, as far back as I know, are East Enders.
0:01:00 > 0:01:05My mum was born in Clapton and my dad was Hackney.
0:01:05 > 0:01:08So I often play a London character.
0:01:08 > 0:01:12Quite recently I was doing a play at Hampstead and a friend of mine,
0:01:12 > 0:01:14Izzy, she said to me after the read through,
0:01:14 > 0:01:16"I've just worked it out.
0:01:16 > 0:01:18"I know what it is. You're Italian, aren't you?"
0:01:18 > 0:01:22She said, "You're just very free and very expressive
0:01:22 > 0:01:24"and that must come from the Italian side."
0:01:24 > 0:01:28And I said, "I do know that there's definitely an Italian
0:01:28 > 0:01:31"influence within the family."
0:01:31 > 0:01:34I'd like to get much more in touch with my Italian roots.
0:02:11 > 0:02:17I'm going to see my mum, and she's going to hopefully tell us
0:02:17 > 0:02:19a bit more about the Italian side.
0:02:21 > 0:02:25My mum's father is Remo. Grandad Remo.
0:02:25 > 0:02:27My mum and her dad had a great relationship,
0:02:27 > 0:02:31from what I can remember. She loved her dad dearly.
0:02:31 > 0:02:34But I don't know any of his ancestors.
0:02:35 > 0:02:39I should imagine this is a real treat for my mum to be
0:02:39 > 0:02:41able to find out about her family too.
0:02:41 > 0:02:48And she is far more linked to Italy, far more spiritually drawn to it.
0:02:48 > 0:02:54And I think this will be a really exciting thing for her.
0:02:54 > 0:02:59And she's going to hopefully tell us a bit more about her mum
0:02:59 > 0:03:02and dad's families, how they came here.
0:03:10 > 0:03:12Tamzin has arranged to meet her mother,
0:03:12 > 0:03:15Anna Santi, in the heart of London's East End.
0:03:16 > 0:03:19- ..over there.- Oh, yeah, number 94.
0:03:19 > 0:03:22- Yeah.- Top Marks, London.- Yeah.
0:03:26 > 0:03:2994 Commercial Road was where Tamzin's Italian
0:03:29 > 0:03:33great-grandfather, Tony Gonnella, once ran his cafe.
0:03:33 > 0:03:35That's the picture of it.
0:03:35 > 0:03:37Oh, my gosh, Tony's. That's what it was called.
0:03:37 > 0:03:40- I thought it was called Gonnella's. - No, it was Tony's.
0:03:40 > 0:03:43So that's exactly...the shop front's the same except for that.
0:03:43 > 0:03:45- Except for the sign writing. - Oh, yeah.
0:03:45 > 0:03:48And they lived above the shop. No bathroom.
0:03:48 > 0:03:50Would he have had a tin bath?
0:03:50 > 0:03:53A tin bath, yeah. In front of the fire.
0:03:53 > 0:03:54Gosh, it's funny.
0:03:54 > 0:03:56- That's Nanny and Grandad Gonnella. - Oh, my gosh!
0:03:56 > 0:04:00- And that's in the shop at first. - Look at them! Gosh.
0:04:00 > 0:04:03That's with Nanny Lina, your nanny, my mother.
0:04:03 > 0:04:06- Oh, my gosh! Oh, yeah, look at Nanny Lina!- Yeah.
0:04:08 > 0:04:12- And that's them outside the shop. - Oh, that's amazing.
0:04:12 > 0:04:17And look at the shop, look how the shop was, you know, so different.
0:04:17 > 0:04:19And they opened till midnight.
0:04:19 > 0:04:22- I remember they worked very hard. - From 6:00 in the morning.
0:04:22 > 0:04:24- Yeah, they did work very hard. - It was always open.- Yeah.
0:04:24 > 0:04:26Come in. Have a Coca-Cola.
0:04:26 > 0:04:27SHE LAUGHS
0:04:27 > 0:04:31This is White Church Lane, which leads down to, um, Brick Lane.
0:04:31 > 0:04:32- Oh, does it?- Yeah.
0:04:32 > 0:04:35The Gonnellas opened the cafe in the 1930s.
0:04:35 > 0:04:38They were Italian and obviously could offer
0:04:38 > 0:04:40really nice Italian food.
0:04:40 > 0:04:43They wanted to keep everything very English.
0:04:43 > 0:04:45They wanted to be accepted.
0:04:45 > 0:04:47Ham, egg and chips. Sausage, egg and chips, beans on toast.
0:04:47 > 0:04:50Did they? Did they start doing as much English food as...?
0:04:50 > 0:04:52- It was all English food. - Through the war?
0:04:52 > 0:04:55All the way through the war, after the war, all the through the '50s.
0:04:55 > 0:04:56Most of the '60s.
0:04:56 > 0:04:59They didn't start bringing like spaghetti,
0:04:59 > 0:05:02pastasciutta or anything like that in until much, much later
0:05:02 > 0:05:05because they weren't sure how the British people would take it.
0:05:05 > 0:05:08- You know, they like, kept a low profile.- Did they fit...?
0:05:08 > 0:05:09Like, did they feel like outsiders?
0:05:09 > 0:05:13Yeah, they did at first, very much like outsiders in their area.
0:05:14 > 0:05:18Antonio and Antonietta Gonnella ran their East End
0:05:18 > 0:05:21cafe for over 40 years.
0:05:21 > 0:05:24When their daughter, Lina, married Remo Santi,
0:05:24 > 0:05:27Remo and Lina helped around the shop.
0:05:27 > 0:05:30Remo was Anna's father,
0:05:30 > 0:05:34and Tamzin wants to know more about his side of the family.
0:05:34 > 0:05:39What did Nanny and Grandad Gonnella think of your dad, Grandad Remo?
0:05:40 > 0:05:42Um, he was...
0:05:42 > 0:05:44They probably thought he was a bit of a liability.
0:05:44 > 0:05:46More often than not you'd find him
0:05:46 > 0:05:49playing cards with all the local rogues in the shop.
0:05:49 > 0:05:51- In the shop.- In the shop.
0:05:51 > 0:05:54I do remember the card games that were continuous every time
0:05:54 > 0:05:58I visited Nanny and Grandad. Cards were big, weren't they?
0:05:58 > 0:06:00- Yeah. They used to have lots of... - For money?
0:06:00 > 0:06:02Always, always for money, yeah.
0:06:02 > 0:06:04It was a bit of a gambling thing, really.
0:06:04 > 0:06:06- I suppose you could say it was... - Yeah.
0:06:06 > 0:06:08But we didn't take too much notice of it.
0:06:08 > 0:06:10What did Grandad Remo do?
0:06:10 > 0:06:11He ran the shop, really.
0:06:11 > 0:06:15He's quite a mystery really, Grandad Remo.
0:06:15 > 0:06:19So I suppose Nanny Lina is the person to talk to.
0:06:19 > 0:06:22- Yes, definitely.- And she's... - You need to go and see Nanny Lina.
0:06:24 > 0:06:30My Nanny Lina is this little girl here in this picture outside Tony's
0:06:30 > 0:06:34who has turned into my 83-year-old Nan.
0:06:34 > 0:06:39Hopefully what she can tell me is a bit more about her husband,
0:06:39 > 0:06:43my grandad Remo Santi's origins,
0:06:43 > 0:06:47where his family came from, where the Santis originated.
0:06:47 > 0:06:51And I'm sure she's got some amazing stories stored away.
0:07:09 > 0:07:11What have you done to me, Tammy?!
0:07:11 > 0:07:13THEY LAUGH
0:07:13 > 0:07:15Oh...
0:07:19 > 0:07:22This is Grandad Remo's birth certificate.
0:07:26 > 0:07:32Registration District in the County of Durham. 2nd December, 1924.
0:07:33 > 0:07:37Remo, boy. Adelmo Santi, father.
0:07:37 > 0:07:40Occupation of Father - Ice Cream Vendor, Master.
0:07:43 > 0:07:44That's a wedding picture.
0:07:46 > 0:07:48- Gosh, look at that, Nan!- Right.
0:07:48 > 0:07:53Look at the dresses. That's quite lavish, isn't it? Gosh.
0:07:53 > 0:07:56That's Grandad Remo, your husband, my grandad.
0:07:56 > 0:07:59Yeah, your grandad, that's right, yes.
0:07:59 > 0:08:03Where is grandad's dad Adelmo? Why is he not in the wedding photo?
0:08:04 > 0:08:09Because he...being a businessman, he wanted to stay in the shop.
0:08:09 > 0:08:11Which shop? In the fish and chip shop?
0:08:11 > 0:08:14No, he didn't have a fish and chip shop, he had a ice cream parlour.
0:08:14 > 0:08:16So he kept...stayed in the shop...
0:08:16 > 0:08:19He kept the shop open because he was the sort of man that,
0:08:19 > 0:08:21you know, business must go on.
0:08:21 > 0:08:23On the day of his son's wedding, he stayed in the shop.
0:08:23 > 0:08:27- He didn't close the shop for the wedding?- No. No.- Wow!
0:08:29 > 0:08:32That's Adelmo, Grandad Remo's dad.
0:08:32 > 0:08:34- This is Adelmo.- Mm-hmm.
0:08:34 > 0:08:36What a stylish man, though.
0:08:36 > 0:08:39A shirt, a tie, a waistcoat, buttoned up.
0:08:39 > 0:08:42Always a tie and he always had his sleeves rolled up,
0:08:42 > 0:08:45whether it was winter, summer, spring or autumn.
0:08:45 > 0:08:50He opened the shop up in Fishburn, 12 Chaytor Terrace was the shop.
0:08:50 > 0:08:55But he was a very generous man in Fishburn, everybody liked him.
0:08:55 > 0:08:58He bought all his children a house each.
0:08:58 > 0:09:01He must have come over in the early '20s
0:09:01 > 0:09:03because grandad was born in '24.
0:09:03 > 0:09:08I know that my Grandad Remo's older brother was called Peter.
0:09:08 > 0:09:11From what Mum tells me, Peter was the only one that was born in Italy.
0:09:11 > 0:09:16Yes. Well that's Peter, and that's his wife Iris.
0:09:16 > 0:09:18Iris still lives in Fishburn.
0:09:18 > 0:09:24Now, during the war, Grandad Remo's dad, Adelmo, right,
0:09:24 > 0:09:26and Peter both got interned.
0:09:26 > 0:09:28Gosh.
0:09:28 > 0:09:29Yeah.
0:09:29 > 0:09:34Because they were born in Italy and enemy aliens at the time.
0:09:34 > 0:09:36Cos the Italians are like the enemy.
0:09:36 > 0:09:39They were the enemy because they were...
0:09:39 > 0:09:41they went in the war with Germany.
0:09:43 > 0:09:47So therefore, because Peter was born in Italy
0:09:47 > 0:09:50and Adelmo born in Italy, they took them
0:09:50 > 0:09:54to a concentration camp on the Isle of Man.
0:09:56 > 0:09:58What?!
0:09:58 > 0:10:00But that was war, you know.
0:10:00 > 0:10:02Only because they were born in Italy?
0:10:02 > 0:10:07- That's right. - Gosh! That's quite unbelievable.
0:10:07 > 0:10:10And actually, Adelmo and Peter never even spoke
0:10:10 > 0:10:12of being in a concentration camp.
0:10:14 > 0:10:15He's... Oh, I can't...
0:10:15 > 0:10:19- I've got to stop here because I'm... - It's all right, Nan.
0:10:19 > 0:10:21- HER VOICE BREAKS - Um...
0:10:21 > 0:10:22It's all good. Don't worry.
0:10:24 > 0:10:27Yeah, so, what else is there.
0:10:27 > 0:10:30- It's...I've completely gone off my track.- Don't worry.
0:10:39 > 0:10:43So, I'm now off to the Isle of Man, of all places, to see
0:10:43 > 0:10:48whether or not this internment camp exists that my great-grandfather
0:10:48 > 0:10:52Adelmo and his eldest son Peter, my great-uncle, were sent
0:10:52 > 0:10:56to during the war, supposedly just because they were Italian.
0:10:57 > 0:11:00If my nan's right, then that seems quite harsh.
0:11:00 > 0:11:02But we're going to go and have a look.
0:11:06 > 0:11:10During Victorian times, the Isle of Man had become one of the most
0:11:10 > 0:11:13popular seaside resorts in Britain.
0:11:13 > 0:11:16But located in the middle of the Irish Sea,
0:11:16 > 0:11:19over 60 miles off the coast of mainland Britain,
0:11:19 > 0:11:25the Isle of Man was also the ideal place to detain enemy aliens.
0:11:31 > 0:11:35I need to find out if there are records that exist
0:11:35 > 0:11:38that would tell me why they put away ice cream vendors...
0:11:40 > 0:11:45..who were peaceful people, who had been in this country for a long time.
0:11:45 > 0:11:48And just what happened, really.
0:11:48 > 0:11:55So I think I need to just see where it is that my great-granddad
0:11:55 > 0:11:59and my great-uncle were sent.
0:11:59 > 0:12:01How long they were here for.
0:12:01 > 0:12:05If they were both together and if they were in the same camp.
0:12:05 > 0:12:07Was it pretty grim or was it OK?
0:12:09 > 0:12:12At the moment, it looks like quite a pretty place to be.
0:12:17 > 0:12:22Tamzin has come to the Manx Museum to meet curator Yvonne Creswell.
0:12:22 > 0:12:25So, Yvonne, what I'm looking to establish really is,
0:12:25 > 0:12:27whether or not these stories are true.
0:12:27 > 0:12:29Well we've got records for some of the internment camps,
0:12:29 > 0:12:32so what nationality were your family?
0:12:32 > 0:12:33- They were Italian.- Right.
0:12:33 > 0:12:36OK, well, we have got records for Italians who were held here,
0:12:36 > 0:12:40so hopefully we'll be lucky and we'll have some information.
0:12:40 > 0:12:42- Brilliant. - So we'll see what we can find.
0:12:42 > 0:12:44- OK, let's go and look.- OK.
0:13:03 > 0:13:06Right, so here's the book for Palace Internment Camp.
0:13:06 > 0:13:09and this is actually a register,
0:13:09 > 0:13:12so it's their own sort of camp administration.
0:13:14 > 0:13:17So, August 15th, 1940.
0:13:21 > 0:13:23Oh, wow, I feel like I need to have gloves on.
0:13:25 > 0:13:26S...
0:13:28 > 0:13:32Santi. Oh, my gosh! Santi.
0:13:32 > 0:13:35Santi A, Santi P - Adelmo and Peter.
0:13:37 > 0:13:4112 Chaytor Terrace, Fishburn, County Durham.
0:13:43 > 0:13:46So you've now got proof. They were here.
0:13:53 > 0:13:54Goodness.
0:13:56 > 0:14:00They were definitely here. My nan was right.
0:14:01 > 0:14:04When they arrived on the Isle of Man, they would have been
0:14:04 > 0:14:08marched along the promenade to the Palace Camp,
0:14:08 > 0:14:11being jeered and heckled by the crowds.
0:14:11 > 0:14:15As far as they were concerned, these were...Italian Fascists,
0:14:15 > 0:14:17these were German and Austrian Nazis and...
0:14:17 > 0:14:19So my great-granddad
0:14:19 > 0:14:23and great-uncle would have been made to feel like criminals?
0:14:23 > 0:14:27Yeah. Yeah. Dangerous criminals at the height of the war.
0:14:27 > 0:14:28Gosh.
0:14:29 > 0:14:31- They made ice cream.- Yeah.
0:14:32 > 0:14:34Goodness me.
0:14:39 > 0:14:45On the 10th June, 1940, Fascist dictator Benito Mussolini
0:14:45 > 0:14:47joined forces with Hitler.
0:14:47 > 0:14:51Britain was now at war with both Germany and Italy.
0:14:53 > 0:14:58Like Germans and Austrians, Italians living in Britain for less
0:14:58 > 0:15:01than 20 years, who had not become British citizens,
0:15:01 > 0:15:05were regarded as enemy aliens and a potential threat.
0:15:07 > 0:15:11Anti-Italian riots broke out up and down the country.
0:15:11 > 0:15:15Long standing Italian businesses were forced to close,
0:15:15 > 0:15:20and many Italian men between the ages of 16 and 70 were interned.
0:15:24 > 0:15:28Tamzin's great-grandfather, Adelmo, and his son,
0:15:28 > 0:15:31her great-uncle, Peter, would have been living in Britain for almost
0:15:31 > 0:15:3620 years when they were arrested and sent to the Isle of Man.
0:15:36 > 0:15:38Tamzin wants to find out
0:15:38 > 0:15:42if the buildings they were held in still exist.
0:15:42 > 0:15:45There you can see, um, places...
0:15:45 > 0:15:50That's actually on Douglas promenade with the barbed wire.
0:15:50 > 0:15:52Gosh, look at that.
0:15:52 > 0:15:55They were being held in internment camps that were basically
0:15:55 > 0:15:57requisitioned boarding houses.
0:15:57 > 0:16:02And we have a plan of the camp.
0:16:02 > 0:16:07So you can actually see what it would have
0:16:07 > 0:16:09been like in the summer of 1939.
0:16:09 > 0:16:14People had been staying in as holiday-makers for one or two weeks,
0:16:14 > 0:16:18by the summer of 1940, had barbed wire all the way round it.
0:16:18 > 0:16:23And you might have anything from 1,000 to 3,000 men
0:16:23 > 0:16:25interned in these blocks of hotels.
0:16:25 > 0:16:28Well you can imagine, with the sea view, that would be quite
0:16:28 > 0:16:32a lovely place to stay if it wasn't covered in barbed wire.
0:16:32 > 0:16:36Yeah. And a lot of this promenade is still there.
0:16:36 > 0:16:40I'd like to try and go there, if possible.
0:16:40 > 0:16:42Yeah. So...
0:16:43 > 0:16:48Here you go. This is where you need to go.
0:16:48 > 0:16:52- There are hotels from the camp still there.- Thank you.
0:17:03 > 0:17:08So this is where my grandad and great-uncle must have come in.
0:17:08 > 0:17:11From what Yvonne says, they would have been
0:17:11 > 0:17:16marched along the promenade, which much have been quite humiliating
0:17:16 > 0:17:19because there would have been lots of people standing out
0:17:19 > 0:17:22jeering and hissing them because they thought they were the enemy.
0:17:22 > 0:17:25And have been marched all along to one of these buildings.
0:17:25 > 0:17:27I think it's one of those in the end there.
0:17:29 > 0:17:31So, what I'm going to do is, um,
0:17:31 > 0:17:35just take this trip all along the promenade.
0:17:43 > 0:17:47I'd like to find the Palace Camp, see what is was like inside,
0:17:47 > 0:17:50see if I can find out what the conditions were like.
0:17:50 > 0:17:52STRONG WIND BLOWS
0:17:52 > 0:17:53Palace View Terrace.
0:17:56 > 0:18:01OK, so this is the beginning of the internment camp.
0:18:02 > 0:18:06So this would have had barbed wire all along here.
0:18:09 > 0:18:11Surrounded by security fences,
0:18:11 > 0:18:14with the perimeters patrolled by British Army personnel,
0:18:14 > 0:18:18Palace Camp was used for the internment of Italian nationals.
0:18:20 > 0:18:23Germans, Austrians and other enemy nationals
0:18:23 > 0:18:26were held elsewhere on the island.
0:18:28 > 0:18:32So this will all have been enclosed.
0:18:32 > 0:18:36All these apartments... Palace Terrace.
0:18:36 > 0:18:41Few witness statements survive about life inside.
0:18:41 > 0:18:45The Italians, locked within the camp, ran it by themselves -
0:18:45 > 0:18:48from who did the cooking and cleaning,
0:18:48 > 0:18:51to who shared which room with who.
0:18:52 > 0:18:55Bet this is quite lovely in summer.
0:18:55 > 0:18:57WIND WHISTLES
0:18:57 > 0:19:00Gosh, it's windy.
0:19:02 > 0:19:05Trevelyan. Ah...
0:19:07 > 0:19:09Rutland Hotel.
0:19:15 > 0:19:17I suppose we should take a look inside.
0:19:19 > 0:19:21Ooh, if we don't get blown into the sea!
0:19:39 > 0:19:44This hotel is one of the 33 boarding houses that made up the Palace Camp.
0:19:51 > 0:19:53Ah, this is one of the rooms.
0:19:56 > 0:19:58There's a bathroom there.
0:19:58 > 0:20:01I wonder how many people would have shared one room.
0:20:01 > 0:20:05I suppose it would have been like a dormitory situation.
0:20:05 > 0:20:09With just under 100 people in each boarding house, Tamzin is
0:20:09 > 0:20:13keen to know what life would have been like for Adelmo and Peter.
0:20:24 > 0:20:27It's just strange to think that lots of Italians and...
0:20:27 > 0:20:31any kind of supposed threat to our country
0:20:31 > 0:20:33would have all been packed into here.
0:20:33 > 0:20:35KNOCK ON DOOR
0:20:35 > 0:20:36- Yvonne. Hi.- Hi.
0:20:37 > 0:20:39Found some more things.
0:20:39 > 0:20:42- Brilliant. Your pictures. - Thank you.
0:20:42 > 0:20:45OK.
0:20:45 > 0:20:49So, one of the things you've got to remember is, in the Italian camps
0:20:49 > 0:20:55you had everybody from die-hard Communists, Fascists, to
0:20:55 > 0:21:00people like your family who probably had no interest in Italian politics.
0:21:00 > 0:21:04But because you've got the full political spectrum,
0:21:04 > 0:21:07it means you're going to have a lot of issues.
0:21:07 > 0:21:12There seems to be sort of Fascist minority of thugs, bullying,
0:21:12 > 0:21:17intimidating and threatening all the other internees in the camp.
0:21:17 > 0:21:22I mean, here we have a cartoon where it's, you know,
0:21:22 > 0:21:27they're calling the island and the Italian camps Little Italy
0:21:27 > 0:21:30with Fascist rule in the Manx Camps.
0:21:30 > 0:21:32"Fascist rule in Manx Camp.
0:21:33 > 0:21:36"An aggressive Fascist minority self-appointed to all
0:21:36 > 0:21:39"posts of responsibility dominates Italian
0:21:39 > 0:21:42"internees at the Palace Camp, Isle of Man."
0:21:43 > 0:21:48Isle of Man, and he's doing a Nazi salute.
0:21:48 > 0:21:49Yeah.
0:21:49 > 0:21:52As I say, there's a group of sort of, um,
0:21:52 > 0:21:58Fascist thugs that see it as their role to remind their fellow
0:21:58 > 0:22:03Italian internees that Mussolini rules supreme
0:22:03 > 0:22:06and that this is a little Italian Fascist state.
0:22:06 > 0:22:11And here we've got an account of the cartoonist
0:22:11 > 0:22:14who was attacked in the camp.
0:22:14 > 0:22:20This was a cartoonist who had produced this cartoon.
0:22:20 > 0:22:25The Fascist thugs found out about it and decided to teach him a lesson.
0:22:25 > 0:22:27So it's real intimidation tactics.
0:22:27 > 0:22:30- What did they do? Beat him? - They beat him up.
0:22:31 > 0:22:34So, basically, it was published without his permission
0:22:34 > 0:22:36and then he was beaten up.
0:22:36 > 0:22:38"Fascist thugs sent to prison.
0:22:38 > 0:22:43"Italian internee beaten up by masked men, hooded like the Ku-Klux-Klan."
0:22:43 > 0:22:46So it will have been a very threatening place.
0:22:46 > 0:22:49Your great-uncle is going to be fearful of
0:22:49 > 0:22:51your great-grandfather being attacked.
0:22:51 > 0:22:54Your great-grandfather is going to be fearful that your
0:22:54 > 0:23:00great-uncle Peter is going to be targeted by the Fascists
0:23:00 > 0:23:03who would be wanting to get a young man to become a Fascist
0:23:03 > 0:23:05and join their group.
0:23:05 > 0:23:07You know, you've either got to side with them
0:23:07 > 0:23:09or you've got to keep your head down.
0:23:09 > 0:23:13Was there a way that you could somehow prove
0:23:13 > 0:23:15or work your way out of here?
0:23:15 > 0:23:20For young men, you could sort of volunteer to join the Pioneer Corps.
0:23:20 > 0:23:24The Pioneer Corps was viewed by a lot of people as being
0:23:24 > 0:23:27the lowest of the low in the British Army, doing all the labouring work.
0:23:27 > 0:23:31But it was kind of like an initial first step to sort of get
0:23:31 > 0:23:35yourself out of the camp, working for the British War Effort
0:23:35 > 0:23:37and then you could take it from there.
0:23:38 > 0:23:42Yvonne has found documents revealing more information about what
0:23:42 > 0:23:44happened to Adelmo and Peter.
0:23:46 > 0:23:49Here is your great-grandfather's card.
0:23:49 > 0:23:56Adelmo Santi. Date and place of birth - 3/5/1896 at Barga, Italy.
0:23:56 > 0:23:59Released 8/5/41.
0:23:59 > 0:24:02- And if you turn it over... - Oh, hold on one sec.
0:24:04 > 0:24:08"Home Office reference - Number 12 Chaytor Terrace, ice cream vendor.
0:24:08 > 0:24:10"Release recommended. Yes."
0:24:12 > 0:24:15And this is why they felt that he should be released.
0:24:15 > 0:24:17Oh, my gosh!
0:24:20 > 0:24:22"Santi, Adelmo is 44 years old.
0:24:24 > 0:24:27"He first came to this country in 1913
0:24:27 > 0:24:30"and worked for four years as an ice cream vendor.
0:24:38 > 0:24:40SHE SNIFFLES
0:24:44 > 0:24:48"Eventually settled in Fishburn, County Durham, where his wife
0:24:48 > 0:24:52"opened a confectionary and ice cream business.
0:24:52 > 0:24:55"His only relative in Italy is his father
0:24:55 > 0:24:59"and he has no property or investments there.
0:24:59 > 0:25:04"His eldest son, aged 19, is now interned in the Isle of Man
0:25:04 > 0:25:08"and he has five younger children,
0:25:08 > 0:25:12"all born in this country, who are living with their mother.
0:25:12 > 0:25:16"He has no money in the bank, no insurance policies.
0:25:16 > 0:25:20"The appellant is a harmless and colourless individual,
0:25:20 > 0:25:24"but he impressed the committee with his friendliness to this
0:25:24 > 0:25:28"country and it seems desirable that he should return to his shop..."
0:25:28 > 0:25:31HER VOICE BREAKS
0:25:35 > 0:25:39"..to keep the business going to his large family.
0:25:39 > 0:25:41SHE SOBS
0:25:41 > 0:25:44"He first came to this country in 1913."
0:25:45 > 0:25:49So we thought he came in the early '20s.
0:25:49 > 0:25:51SHE INHALES SHARPLY
0:25:52 > 0:25:58So that's your great-grandfather's. Now here is your great-uncle's.
0:25:58 > 0:26:03"He was born 10/12/1921 at Barga, Italy.
0:26:03 > 0:26:08It says, "Release not recommended." That's the 15/4.
0:26:14 > 0:26:17"The appellant is a boy who is now in his 20th year
0:26:17 > 0:26:21"and has been in England since he was a child of 11 months.
0:26:21 > 0:26:25"He has no intention of returning to Italy but has declined to show
0:26:25 > 0:26:30"his friendliness to this country by volunteering for the Pioneer Corps.
0:26:30 > 0:26:33"The committee are unable to recommend his release
0:26:33 > 0:26:35"in these circumstances."
0:26:35 > 0:26:40He won't volunteer for the Pioneer Corps, so they're viewing
0:26:40 > 0:26:44that as meaning that he's not friendly towards Britain.
0:26:44 > 0:26:46He's a Fascist. Gosh.
0:26:46 > 0:26:51What's interesting is why he doesn't want to join the Pioneer Corps.
0:26:51 > 0:26:55And I wonder whether Peter is worried about saying, yeah,
0:26:55 > 0:26:57fine, I'll join the Pioneer Corps
0:26:57 > 0:27:01and heaven forbid he gets released even a few
0:27:01 > 0:27:05days before his father, leaving his father in the camp on his own.
0:27:05 > 0:27:09You're still having people being attacked by Fascist thugs
0:27:09 > 0:27:11in the Palace Camp.
0:27:11 > 0:27:14You wonder whether Peter just cannot take
0:27:14 > 0:27:18the chance of leaving his father on his own.
0:27:18 > 0:27:21Mm. That's quite a gallant thing to do, isn't it?
0:27:21 > 0:27:24SHE EXHALES
0:27:28 > 0:27:31So the discoveries are pretty horrific really,
0:27:31 > 0:27:37what Great-Granddad Adelmo and Great-Uncle Peter went through
0:27:37 > 0:27:41when they were sent here to the Palace Internment Camp.
0:27:41 > 0:27:47Bullying and intimidation, probably violence...
0:27:47 > 0:27:51And both of them worrying that the other one was OK.
0:27:51 > 0:27:55And then of course eventually, after ten months for Adelmo,
0:27:55 > 0:27:59him being able to be released. And a year for Peter.
0:27:59 > 0:28:03But the interesting thing I found out today was that
0:28:03 > 0:28:05Adelmo came over in 1913.
0:28:05 > 0:28:09That means Adelmo was 16 or 17 years old.
0:28:09 > 0:28:12So I'd like to find out how he got here, who he came with.
0:28:12 > 0:28:17And I think the next step is Italy. And Barga.
0:28:17 > 0:28:20So I'm quite excited about that.
0:28:34 > 0:28:39Barga is a medieval hilltop town in rural Tuscany.
0:28:39 > 0:28:45Tamzin's great-grandfather, Adelmo, left here more than a century ago.
0:28:45 > 0:28:48Now she hopes to find out why.
0:28:48 > 0:28:52Since I was a child, I've been coming here.
0:28:52 > 0:28:54We came as children on holiday.
0:28:54 > 0:28:58This is the old town and we always used to come to the old town
0:28:58 > 0:29:01to get food. It's very, very pretty.
0:29:01 > 0:29:05Although we didn't appreciate the beauty of it quite back then.
0:29:07 > 0:29:09But not much has really changed here.
0:29:09 > 0:29:11It still looks exactly the same to me.
0:29:11 > 0:29:14The colours of the walls and the yellows and the pinks
0:29:14 > 0:29:15and the oranges.
0:29:22 > 0:29:28It seems like Adelmo came over to England in 1913.
0:29:28 > 0:29:32So how did he go over as a 16-year-old?
0:29:32 > 0:29:34Did he go over with his parents?
0:29:35 > 0:29:39So I suppose I'm looking for why that journey happened,
0:29:39 > 0:29:42where they ended up, why would you leave here?
0:29:42 > 0:29:47Tamzin has arranged to meet researcher Maria Laura Frullini.
0:29:47 > 0:29:48Ah. Maria Laura?
0:29:48 > 0:29:50Records of local births,
0:29:50 > 0:29:54marriages and deaths are held in Barga's Town Hall.
0:29:56 > 0:30:00Tamzin wants to find out about the life of her great-grandfather
0:30:00 > 0:30:06Adelmo, before he left Italy for Britain at such a young age.
0:30:06 > 0:30:09She's starting with his birth certificate.
0:30:16 > 0:30:23This is a registry that is listing people for that period.
0:30:23 > 0:30:26Look at the writing. Just...
0:30:27 > 0:30:29..so beautifully done.
0:30:29 > 0:30:31Yeah.
0:30:35 > 0:30:37Ah, wow.
0:30:40 > 0:30:43- Santi. Adelmo.- Yes.
0:30:45 > 0:30:47Barga.
0:30:48 > 0:30:55He was born here, 5th May, 1896.
0:30:55 > 0:30:59He...he has many names before Santi.
0:30:59 > 0:31:02Yes. He has three names.
0:31:02 > 0:31:07So he is Adelmo Alfredo Nello Santi.
0:31:07 > 0:31:11- Giuseppe, the father. - Santi, Giuseppe.
0:31:11 > 0:31:16So Adelmo's father was a colono - he's a farmer.
0:31:17 > 0:31:23Maria Laura can find no record of Adelmo leaving Barga in 1913.
0:31:23 > 0:31:26But there's another route they can take.
0:31:26 > 0:31:30Adelmo left Italy the year before World War I broke out.
0:31:34 > 0:31:37Unlike World War II, during the First World War
0:31:37 > 0:31:39Italy joined Britain and her allies,
0:31:39 > 0:31:41fighting against Germany and Austria.
0:31:46 > 0:31:50The Italian Government began calling up
0:31:50 > 0:31:54hundreds of thousands of Italian men who had emigrated abroad.
0:31:54 > 0:31:58Adelmo Santi was in Britain in 1913,
0:31:58 > 0:32:03so there may be a record of him being called back to Italy to fight.
0:32:03 > 0:32:10This is, er, army call up lists for young people living abroad
0:32:10 > 0:32:13that were called for the Italian army.
0:32:22 > 0:32:28Santi, Adelmo. So this is him being called up.
0:32:28 > 0:32:31- Yeah.- In what year would this have been?
0:32:31 > 0:32:34- Er, 1916.- 19th July, 1916.
0:32:34 > 0:32:37At the Italian Consulate in Glasgow.
0:32:37 > 0:32:43Glasgow! The Italian Consulate in Glasgow.
0:32:43 > 0:32:46- Yeah.- Called him up. So he was living in Glasgow?
0:32:46 > 0:32:51He was living, well, in Glasgow or in Scotland, yes.
0:32:51 > 0:32:55So, in 1913, he must have gone to Scotland.
0:32:55 > 0:33:01Yeah. And he was there on January 25th, 1916.
0:33:01 > 0:33:06- And that's when he was called up. He had to come back to Italy.- Yes.
0:33:06 > 0:33:09Maria Laura has another document
0:33:09 > 0:33:13which shows where Adelmo was living when he returned to Italy.
0:33:13 > 0:33:16Carpinecchio, two. Due.
0:33:18 > 0:33:19It's not far from Barga.
0:33:19 > 0:33:22So number two, Carpinecchio.
0:33:22 > 0:33:25Will I be able to find this in Barga? Is it easy to find?
0:33:25 > 0:33:26Yes.
0:33:29 > 0:33:34So we know that Adelmo turned up in Great Britain in 1913,
0:33:34 > 0:33:38which means he would have left here at about 16/17 years old.
0:33:38 > 0:33:41- Yeah.- I'd love to find out what actually happened.
0:33:43 > 0:33:48Tamzin wants to discover what Adelmo was doing
0:33:48 > 0:33:51in Glasgow between 1913 and 1916.
0:33:52 > 0:33:56Farming families like Adelmo's, could barely scratch
0:33:56 > 0:33:59a living from the land in mountainous areas like Barga.
0:34:01 > 0:34:05In the 50 years before Adelmo left in 1913,
0:34:05 > 0:34:10grinding poverty in these rural communities had forced
0:34:10 > 0:34:12millions of Italians to desert their homeland.
0:34:16 > 0:34:20Tamzin is meeting local historian, Nicoletta Franchi.
0:34:20 > 0:34:23- Ah, Nicoletta.- Yes. Hi.
0:34:25 > 0:34:27- Hi. Sono Tamzin.- Piacere.
0:34:27 > 0:34:29OK.
0:34:32 > 0:34:36Adelmo Santi was just one of several hundred young boys who left
0:34:36 > 0:34:41Barga to work in the emerging ice cream trade in Glasgow.
0:34:43 > 0:34:45How could you leave Barga,
0:34:45 > 0:34:48you left your family and go to Glasgow?
0:34:48 > 0:34:52I mean, what would be the pull and what would be the reasons for going?
0:34:52 > 0:34:55The people from Barga had a long tradition
0:34:55 > 0:34:59since the 1700s of migrating during the winter to Scotland.
0:34:59 > 0:35:02Most of the people that actually immigrated they were coming...
0:35:02 > 0:35:06had a farm background and, by the end of the December, the harvest is
0:35:06 > 0:35:10finished and therefore there's not much to do during the harsh winters.
0:35:10 > 0:35:14And so I think your great-grandfather was
0:35:14 > 0:35:15actually in this trend.
0:35:15 > 0:35:19He was coming from a place that was 1,000 inhabitants,
0:35:19 > 0:35:22whereas Glasgow was 750,000 inhabitants.
0:35:22 > 0:35:25It was the second city within Great Britain,
0:35:25 > 0:35:29- so that was one of the main attraction points.- Of course.
0:35:29 > 0:35:33- Many people from Barga had ice cream shops...- In Glasgow?
0:35:33 > 0:35:34In Glasgow itself.
0:35:34 > 0:35:39So they would actually need boys or young apprentices
0:35:39 > 0:35:42to work in the shop and prepare the ice cream.
0:35:42 > 0:35:45Which would explain, you know, why people were,
0:35:45 > 0:35:49would leave Barga and go to Glasgow because they would know people,
0:35:49 > 0:35:51their families would all know each other.
0:35:54 > 0:35:58Italy has always been famous for its gelato or ice cream.
0:35:58 > 0:36:03Thought to date back to Roman banquets around 2,000 years ago,
0:36:03 > 0:36:07gelato was originally made from snow and ice
0:36:07 > 0:36:11brought down from the mountaintops and preserved deep below ground.
0:36:11 > 0:36:13Ciao.
0:36:13 > 0:36:15By the 20th century,
0:36:15 > 0:36:19gelato had become a popular street food throughout Europe.
0:36:19 > 0:36:21For emigrants like Adelmo,
0:36:21 > 0:36:26making and selling ice cream was a potential route to economic success.
0:36:26 > 0:36:28Ooh, that's good!
0:36:29 > 0:36:32So it's a massive thing, Italians and ice cream.
0:36:32 > 0:36:34I mean, they're just famous for it, aren't they?
0:36:34 > 0:36:36Ah, we are. Well we're exporting all over the world.
0:36:36 > 0:36:39It's like, we're the Santis - ice cream.
0:36:39 > 0:36:43And then I know the Rossis - that's ice cream.
0:36:43 > 0:36:47It seemed like quite a steady profession for Italians.
0:36:48 > 0:36:51- All part of the catering trade, isn't it?- It is.
0:36:53 > 0:36:56What Nicoletta's going to do is, she is going to give me
0:36:56 > 0:36:59a lift to Carpinecchio, number two Carpinecchio, which is
0:36:59 > 0:37:03the house, the last place that my great-granddad lived in
0:37:03 > 0:37:07before he decided to leave Italy forever and go and live in the UK.
0:37:07 > 0:37:10So I'm really desperate to see it, if it's still there.
0:37:25 > 0:37:29This is where Adelmo, my great-grandfather, came from.
0:37:29 > 0:37:31In a hamlet or a village.
0:37:31 > 0:37:36Being in a remote place up here, on the side of a hill,
0:37:36 > 0:37:41kind of makes you think, going all the way to Glasgow must
0:37:41 > 0:37:44have been a massively brave move.
0:37:44 > 0:37:49Well it's not unthinkable, but at 16/17 it seems to be.
0:37:49 > 0:37:54- In my head, I'm thinking that's a really brave...- Thing to do.
0:37:54 > 0:37:57..move. Well, it's quite ambitious, isn't it?
0:38:08 > 0:38:10It's so quiet.
0:38:12 > 0:38:17I can really see my great-granddad, Adelmo, here.
0:38:17 > 0:38:19I can really see him in this place.
0:38:19 > 0:38:22And you do think, why would you want to leave
0:38:22 > 0:38:24if your family are around you?
0:38:24 > 0:38:28But something must have been very attractive in Glasgow.
0:38:28 > 0:38:30I can understand why at 16 or 17
0:38:30 > 0:38:33you would want to go and see what else was out there.
0:38:33 > 0:38:37But if this is all he knew, I can completely understand why he'd
0:38:37 > 0:38:41want to go and have a look for some bright lights and more opportunity.
0:38:41 > 0:38:43I think I need to go to Glasgow next.
0:38:55 > 0:39:00By the time Adelmo arrived in Glasgow in 1913
0:39:00 > 0:39:04there were several thousand Italian immigrants living here,
0:39:04 > 0:39:09and more than 300 Italian shops and cafes selling ice cream
0:39:09 > 0:39:12in the summer and fish and chips in the winter.
0:39:15 > 0:39:18The Italians have left their mark on the city.
0:39:18 > 0:39:22It is estimated that around 2% of Scotland's population
0:39:22 > 0:39:24is of Italian descent.
0:39:26 > 0:39:29What I want to do now is find out a bit more about ice cream
0:39:29 > 0:39:31and what my great-granddad,
0:39:31 > 0:39:36Adelmo, must have gone through in 1913 when he was 16 years old.
0:39:36 > 0:39:40And so I've arranged to meet someone called Ivan, he's a historian.
0:39:40 > 0:39:44I'm going to meet him at one of the very few ice cream parlours
0:39:44 > 0:39:46that are left here in Glasgow.
0:39:48 > 0:39:50- Ivan?- Tamzin.
0:39:50 > 0:39:53- It's lovely to meet you. - Come and have a seat.
0:39:53 > 0:39:55This place looks amazing.
0:39:55 > 0:39:58It is lovely, isn't it? It's a time warp, really.
0:39:59 > 0:40:03Italians had been coming to England since the early 1850s,
0:40:03 > 0:40:05making ice cream in the summer,
0:40:05 > 0:40:09selling it on the streets, chestnuts in the winter
0:40:09 > 0:40:11or even barrel organs with monkeys, that kind of thing,
0:40:11 > 0:40:13just to make a living.
0:40:13 > 0:40:18By 1913, there were even two generations of Italians here,
0:40:18 > 0:40:23so people would come from Barga, particularly to Glasgow.
0:40:23 > 0:40:26So when he came as a young man,
0:40:26 > 0:40:31there would have been a network of relatives, friends of the family.
0:40:31 > 0:40:34That doesn't mean to say it was cosy, because a lot of these
0:40:34 > 0:40:39young men at that age were really exploited by distant relatives.
0:40:39 > 0:40:42Now I've got an amazing thing here for you.
0:40:42 > 0:40:43Let's have a look.
0:40:43 > 0:40:48This is the Bible for Italian ice cream makers from this period.
0:40:48 > 0:40:49It's an amazing book.
0:40:49 > 0:40:53- It was written by a man called Pinot Grifoni...- Grifoni.
0:40:53 > 0:40:57- And it was published, look, in 19...- 1911.- Yeah.
0:40:57 > 0:41:00- So that was just before Adelmo came here.- Yeah.
0:41:00 > 0:41:01Milano...
0:41:01 > 0:41:05So this is the state of the art book for the gelateria of the
0:41:05 > 0:41:07pre-First World War period.
0:41:07 > 0:41:10What you're looking at here is something which is
0:41:10 > 0:41:15probably like the premises that Adelmo worked in here in Glasgow.
0:41:15 > 0:41:17What would they have called that? A parlour?
0:41:17 > 0:41:20Well this is called a laboratorio di gelato.
0:41:20 > 0:41:23- Laboratorio.- A laboratorio. A laboratory of gelato.
0:41:23 > 0:41:27What I find baffling is how do you do this without freezing equipment?
0:41:27 > 0:41:31OK. This is actually the sort of equipment that Adelmo would
0:41:31 > 0:41:36have used when he first came to England in 1913.
0:41:36 > 0:41:38This is an ice cream maker.
0:41:38 > 0:41:43This is a wooden pale and this is called the sorbettiera, which,
0:41:43 > 0:41:47it's made of pewter, and I'm going to get you to actually make some
0:41:47 > 0:41:51ice cream using the sort of method that he would have used himself.
0:41:56 > 0:41:59What we've got to do is get some ice.
0:41:59 > 0:42:00I've got some here.
0:42:05 > 0:42:08And I've also got this thing here.
0:42:08 > 0:42:10- You need to... - Oh, I can I do that?
0:42:10 > 0:42:13You're going to. If you can... Not too forcefully.
0:42:13 > 0:42:16- OK.- But just try and crush it up a bit, OK.
0:42:19 > 0:42:22No, you've got to whack it harder than that.
0:42:22 > 0:42:23Ooh, that's satisfying.
0:42:26 > 0:42:28- That's brilliant.- Basta.
0:42:28 > 0:42:30- You enjoy that.- Finito.
0:42:30 > 0:42:33Next thing, I'm going to...
0:42:33 > 0:42:37When Adelmo first learnt to make gelato, blocks of ice were
0:42:37 > 0:42:40broken up with hammers and packed between the walls
0:42:40 > 0:42:42of the wooden pale and the inner metal container.
0:42:42 > 0:42:44You can put your salt in again now.
0:42:44 > 0:42:47Adding salt to the ice brought the temperature down to
0:42:47 > 0:42:48well below freezing point.
0:42:48 > 0:42:50Just a little sprinkling...
0:42:50 > 0:42:52Now the business of making ice cream can begin.
0:42:52 > 0:42:53Be quite generous.
0:42:53 > 0:42:56Got to put some over my left shoulder, just because you have to.
0:42:56 > 0:42:58But the ice cream is going to be
0:42:58 > 0:43:02made from what your great-grandfather would have
0:43:02 > 0:43:06called fior di latte, which is actually a very thin cream.
0:43:06 > 0:43:11- Right.- Pour that cream into your ice cream maker there.
0:43:13 > 0:43:18- So just put the lid down, pour it in, OK.- OK.
0:43:18 > 0:43:21Now the other ingredient, the most important of all,
0:43:21 > 0:43:26- is this, which is sugar syrup.- Wow!
0:43:26 > 0:43:29You can't make ice cream without sugar.
0:43:29 > 0:43:33So I've got about half the quantity of sugar syrup to cream.
0:43:33 > 0:43:34Gosh, that's syrupy.
0:43:34 > 0:43:38Let me show you the two things that he would have done.
0:43:38 > 0:43:42First of all, the first thing is, once it's generally mixed up,
0:43:42 > 0:43:43you spin it like that, OK.
0:43:43 > 0:43:47Keep spinning it and it's going to whirl around and it's going to
0:43:47 > 0:43:51mean that the cold is going to work through the whole mixture.
0:43:51 > 0:43:53OK. Now if you take the lid off...
0:43:56 > 0:43:57OK, now look in there,
0:43:57 > 0:44:01can you see now that it's really beginning to freeze hard?
0:44:01 > 0:44:02- Yeah.- OK.
0:44:02 > 0:44:05Now what I'm going to teach you to do now is one of the skills that
0:44:05 > 0:44:08Adelmo would have learned as a young lad,
0:44:08 > 0:44:12and that is to spin it like this, look.
0:44:12 > 0:44:14- Oh, so it's...- Oops!
0:44:14 > 0:44:16THEY LAUGH
0:44:16 > 0:44:19Did I catch you? I'm terribly sorry.
0:44:19 > 0:44:21Have we got a wet cloth somewhere?
0:44:21 > 0:44:26You're going to have to get your make-up guy to do something now.
0:44:26 > 0:44:28Oh, my gosh!
0:44:28 > 0:44:30THEY LAUGH
0:44:31 > 0:44:32Oh, dear!
0:44:34 > 0:44:36Hold it at the top, that's it.
0:44:36 > 0:44:39Just very gently and it'll go, it'll just...
0:44:39 > 0:44:41That's it. Do it fast.
0:44:42 > 0:44:46When you get really good at it, like Adelmo was, you can
0:44:46 > 0:44:49sort of do it with one hand. Try it with one hand.
0:44:52 > 0:44:55- Ahh...- Yeah. Now what you're doing now is you're getting...
0:44:55 > 0:44:56SHE YELPS
0:44:56 > 0:44:59You're getting air into the mixture, OK.
0:44:59 > 0:45:01You've got this in your genes, I think.
0:45:01 > 0:45:02It looks like it.
0:45:04 > 0:45:06OK, I think you're there, actually.
0:45:10 > 0:45:14When Adelmo was making ice cream in Glasgow in 1913,
0:45:14 > 0:45:18the cone, as a way of serving it, had just come in.
0:45:18 > 0:45:22Most of the ice cream vendors were selling their ices in these
0:45:22 > 0:45:25- little things which are called 'licks.'- Licks.
0:45:25 > 0:45:28You've got a penny lick there cos that gives you a big helping.
0:45:28 > 0:45:31- Mine is smaller, it's called halfpenny lick.- Right.
0:45:31 > 0:45:33And what you actually do with these,
0:45:33 > 0:45:36is you get your serving of ice cream on there with a spoon and you
0:45:36 > 0:45:38give it to your customer and they lick it off
0:45:38 > 0:45:41- and then they give you... - What, no spoon?- No, no spoon.
0:45:41 > 0:45:44You just lick it off and then you give the glass back to Adelmo
0:45:44 > 0:45:48- and he washes it...- Oh. - ..and gives it to the next customer.
0:45:48 > 0:45:49But let's serve it out.
0:45:49 > 0:45:52I think the ice cream is really perfect now.
0:45:52 > 0:45:55I get it like that and I try and...
0:45:57 > 0:46:00get it to form a little kind of pyramid.
0:46:00 > 0:46:03So you hang on to that. I'm going to serve myself...
0:46:03 > 0:46:06- Quite uncouth just licking it off. - ..a halfpenny worth.
0:46:06 > 0:46:08Doesn't feel right.
0:46:10 > 0:46:11- Salute, eh.- Salute.
0:46:16 > 0:46:17Go on, do it.
0:46:17 > 0:46:19I can't do it in one go... Mmm.
0:46:23 > 0:46:24Mmm.
0:46:25 > 0:46:27We made that.
0:46:27 > 0:46:29Mm.
0:46:29 > 0:46:30- Wow, that's gorgeous.- Mm.
0:46:33 > 0:46:38By the early 1920s, Glasgow was teeming with Italian cafes.
0:46:38 > 0:46:41About eight years after he had first arrived,
0:46:41 > 0:46:46Tamzin's great-grandfather decided to seek new opportunities.
0:46:46 > 0:46:49He headed south to Fishburn in County Durham.
0:46:49 > 0:46:52I suppose what I learnt about Adelmo is,
0:46:52 > 0:46:56he was willing to start from scratch, from absolutely nothing.
0:46:56 > 0:47:02To learn a trade that he didn't know much about at a very young age.
0:47:02 > 0:47:06And then eventually turn that trade into a business.
0:47:06 > 0:47:09Well, being Italian was, at that time, probably...
0:47:11 > 0:47:13They were in favour, they were out of favour,
0:47:13 > 0:47:18just before the war they had...they suffered some racism.
0:47:18 > 0:47:19And then once the war happened,
0:47:19 > 0:47:21then they were put in internment camps
0:47:21 > 0:47:23because they were classed as the enemy.
0:47:23 > 0:47:26And then suddenly people decided they quite liked ice cream,
0:47:26 > 0:47:29so then they were all in favour of the Italians.
0:47:29 > 0:47:31So there was definitely an element of,
0:47:31 > 0:47:34oh, we'll have your ice cream and your fish and chips
0:47:34 > 0:47:38and all the good bits about you, but you know, don't be too Italian.
0:47:38 > 0:47:41And so I think they had to become British to fit in.
0:47:41 > 0:47:46And that takes a lot of swallowing your pride.
0:47:46 > 0:47:50And the integrity and the determination that he must have had
0:47:50 > 0:47:54to make that work, sounds like such a man of substance.
0:47:56 > 0:47:58So now we're off to Fishburn.
0:47:58 > 0:48:03I've been to Fishburn many times. And the shop, I remember really well.
0:48:03 > 0:48:06And the ice cream, it was called Santi's Ices.
0:48:07 > 0:48:13My memory of Fishburn was the smell of coal, which was so strong.
0:48:13 > 0:48:16As soon as you came in to the village,
0:48:16 > 0:48:19you saw the smoke and then you smelled the coal.
0:48:22 > 0:48:26In the 1920s, Fishburn's existing colliery expanded to employ
0:48:26 > 0:48:28over 500 men.
0:48:28 > 0:48:32With small but steady incomes to tap from the local miners' families,
0:48:32 > 0:48:37Fishburn was the perfect place for Adelmo to open
0:48:37 > 0:48:40the village's first Italian ice cream parlour.
0:48:42 > 0:48:46A century later, Tamzin has returned to Fishburn to see how
0:48:46 > 0:48:49successful Adelmo's venture was.
0:48:51 > 0:48:56Chaytor Terrace. Goodness me. It's exactly the same.
0:48:56 > 0:49:00The only difference is, it doesn't smell of coal any more.
0:49:00 > 0:49:02So this looks familiar.
0:49:02 > 0:49:06This must have been... where are we... 15, 14, 13,
0:49:06 > 0:49:09so this is number 12, this was the shop.
0:49:09 > 0:49:11Hello there, Tamzin.
0:49:11 > 0:49:13Lifelong resident, Bert Draycott,
0:49:13 > 0:49:17has tracked down the keys to Adelmo Santi's old shop.
0:49:17 > 0:49:18This is the...
0:49:18 > 0:49:22Bert grew up with Santi's ice cream and knew the family well.
0:49:23 > 0:49:27When I was a lad, Santi's was the place, the ice cream.
0:49:27 > 0:49:29It was lovely.
0:49:29 > 0:49:32The kids used to say, "Santi's ice cream is the best.
0:49:32 > 0:49:34"It's good for your belly and chest.
0:49:34 > 0:49:37"You pay a penny, you get too many, Santi's ice cream is the best."
0:49:37 > 0:49:39Did they? That's so cute!
0:49:39 > 0:49:43That was the thing they used to say. Cos it was. It was lovely ice cream.
0:49:43 > 0:49:47So I know Adelmo as being my Italian great-grandfather.
0:49:47 > 0:49:49- Yeah.- Everyone called him Arthur,
0:49:49 > 0:49:52- maybe because he wanted to not seem too out of place.- Mm.
0:49:52 > 0:49:56And, er, the main thing that I've found out along the way
0:49:56 > 0:49:58is just how hard he worked.
0:49:58 > 0:50:01He came from absolutely nothing. He had no money.
0:50:01 > 0:50:05He then went on to buy all of his children houses in the area.
0:50:05 > 0:50:09Oh, yeah, they used to say, "Arthur Santi, richest man in Fishburn."
0:50:09 > 0:50:12Yes, which he owns houses, he owns houses that...he owns houses.
0:50:12 > 0:50:14When would that have been?
0:50:14 > 0:50:16- 1950, something like that.- Right.
0:50:16 > 0:50:19It took him that long to be known as the richest man in Fishburn,
0:50:19 > 0:50:22but what an achievement, that my great-granddad was called
0:50:22 > 0:50:24the richest man in Fishburn. HE LAUGHS
0:50:28 > 0:50:31- This is obviously where the pit was. - Yeah.
0:50:34 > 0:50:38So it seems to me that Adelmo - Arthur - Santi
0:50:38 > 0:50:40must have spotted an opportunity.
0:50:40 > 0:50:43The pit is the reason that Adelmo came here,
0:50:43 > 0:50:47because he saw it as a place that would bring cash into the village.
0:50:47 > 0:50:50Yeah. Yeah, well Fishburn would be an up-and-coming place then.
0:50:50 > 0:50:55He probably knew that there was no ice cream parlours in the area.
0:50:55 > 0:50:57- Exactly, yes. - He must have known that.
0:50:58 > 0:51:03Fishburn was a coal town, and during the years of the depression
0:51:03 > 0:51:07in the 1930s, colliery wages were low.
0:51:07 > 0:51:12But after the pits were nationalised in 1947, Adelmo's customers'
0:51:12 > 0:51:17disposable income rose as they topped the industrial wages league.
0:51:21 > 0:51:26Now, my Auntie Iris and Peter lived on a corner house.
0:51:26 > 0:51:31It could be this corner, but I think it might be that one.
0:51:31 > 0:51:35Tamzin's Great-Uncle Peter died some years ago,
0:51:35 > 0:51:38but his wife, Iris, still lives in Fishburn.
0:51:38 > 0:51:41Cleveland View. It's this one here.
0:51:41 > 0:51:45It's very different, they've obviously got a new fence.
0:51:45 > 0:51:50So this was where Uncle Peter and Auntie Iris lived.
0:51:50 > 0:51:53I remember, they always had a lovely garden.
0:51:55 > 0:51:57That's right. Look how close everything is.
0:52:09 > 0:52:11Auntie Iris!
0:52:11 > 0:52:15Tamzin! Where have you been all my life?
0:52:15 > 0:52:18- Oh, you look exactly the same. - Ohhh...
0:52:18 > 0:52:20You don't look any different at all.
0:52:20 > 0:52:24Nanny Lina sent her love as well, I spoke to her today.
0:52:24 > 0:52:26Oh, yes. I spoke to her on Saturday.
0:52:28 > 0:52:31It's so surreal being back here.
0:52:31 > 0:52:38In the last ten days I have been on a magical mystery tour
0:52:38 > 0:52:43- of Great-Granddad Adelmo's path. - He was a lovely, lovely man.
0:52:43 > 0:52:46- He was really well respected round here, wasn't he?- Definitely.
0:52:46 > 0:52:49And when Nanny told me about... when she showed me
0:52:49 > 0:52:51the wedding pictures of her and Grandad, Nanny Lina
0:52:51 > 0:52:56and Grandad Remo, and I said, "Where is Adelmo, why is he not there?"
0:52:56 > 0:52:58And she said he had to open the shop.
0:52:58 > 0:53:01- Yes.- Because someone... - The shop came first.
0:53:01 > 0:53:02- Shop came first.- Absolutely.
0:53:02 > 0:53:05And although he was such a family man,
0:53:05 > 0:53:08he let everybody else go to the wedding because the idea of him
0:53:08 > 0:53:11closing the shop for a day would be too much of a loss.
0:53:11 > 0:53:17- Ooh, no. No, no. - What a hardworking man.- Definitely.
0:53:19 > 0:53:26Iris reveals that Adelmo had another son who Tamzin knows nothing about.
0:53:28 > 0:53:34Well, there was Henry, but they were playing on a swing,
0:53:34 > 0:53:38a rope over a tree, and they fell.
0:53:38 > 0:53:44And I was told that he injured his liver and he died.
0:53:44 > 0:53:48- How old was he?- Just a child.- Gosh.
0:53:49 > 0:53:53I can't imagine what that must have been like for Maria and Adelmo.
0:53:53 > 0:53:54Oh, terrible.
0:53:54 > 0:54:01In the garden across the road there, is a tree, a cherry tree it is...
0:54:01 > 0:54:08- Right.- And Grandad, he sat there and we're talking like this,
0:54:08 > 0:54:12and he really sobbed his heart out.
0:54:13 > 0:54:15And that tree was in flower.
0:54:15 > 0:54:22I thought maybe it had triggered something in his mind of Italy
0:54:22 > 0:54:23cos he was old then.
0:54:24 > 0:54:30If Henry died from falling off a swing from a tree...
0:54:30 > 0:54:33- Yeah, it could be. I don't know. - ..would it be to do with that?
0:54:33 > 0:54:38Yeah. I couldn't ask him because I didn't want him to cry.
0:54:38 > 0:54:41I would say it was more about Henry than Italy.
0:54:41 > 0:54:43Yes. I suppose.
0:54:47 > 0:54:50- Look how pretty it is over here. - Specially when the sun shines on it.
0:54:50 > 0:54:52Isn't it?
0:54:52 > 0:54:54Bert has brought Tamzin to Fishburn Cemetery
0:54:54 > 0:54:59to look for the grave of Henry, the great-uncle she never knew.
0:54:59 > 0:55:03Down this way. It's the one that's fell over.
0:55:03 > 0:55:05Oh, wow. Look.
0:55:11 > 0:55:15"In loving memory of a dear husband and dad. Arthur Santi.
0:55:15 > 0:55:20"Died 11th November, 1978, aged 82 years.
0:55:20 > 0:55:28"Also a dear wife and mam, Maria Santi, died 27th June, 1980."
0:55:28 > 0:55:34Two years later. "Aged 78 years.
0:55:34 > 0:55:42"And Henry, their dear son, died 1936, aged 13 years."
0:55:42 > 0:55:46When Henry died, they hadn't been in Fishburn very long,
0:55:46 > 0:55:49and they were...they had no money for the funeral.
0:55:49 > 0:55:54Fishburn people had a collection and paid for the funeral.
0:55:54 > 0:56:00So later years, when they said, "Mr Santi, richest man in Fishburn,"
0:56:00 > 0:56:04he bought a field, not to be built on, donated to the village
0:56:04 > 0:56:10as a playground for the Fishburn children as a thank you for
0:56:10 > 0:56:12the kindness of the village people.
0:56:12 > 0:56:16- So when his son died, he didn't have any money?- No.
0:56:16 > 0:56:19- And so everyone clubbed together to pay for the funeral?- Mm.
0:56:19 > 0:56:21- That just tells you what kind of a man he was.- Yeah.
0:56:21 > 0:56:23They must have loved him.
0:56:23 > 0:56:26And then when he did eventually have the money,
0:56:26 > 0:56:30- that's how he repaid Fishburn. - Yes. It was, yes.
0:56:30 > 0:56:32That's lovely.
0:56:32 > 0:56:36Came from nowt up to being richest man in Fishburn.
0:56:36 > 0:56:39Such an honourable, loyal thing to do.
0:56:41 > 0:56:44I'm going to go down to the playing field now, to the playground.
0:56:44 > 0:56:46CHILDREN PLAYING LOUDLY
0:56:46 > 0:56:50My great-granddad, Adelmo, bought the plot of land to say thank you
0:56:50 > 0:56:53to all the local people.
0:56:53 > 0:56:55Looks busy.
0:57:01 > 0:57:02Wow!
0:57:03 > 0:57:05What a great place.
0:57:10 > 0:57:15"In memory of Mr Arthur Santi who bequeathed this
0:57:15 > 0:57:18"ground in 1952 to the children of Fishburn."
0:57:20 > 0:57:22How lovely.
0:57:33 > 0:57:39Having traced his journey, you just think what a tale of,
0:57:39 > 0:57:45you know, immigration, and the achievement...
0:57:46 > 0:57:51Well, all the achievements - his businesses, his travelling,
0:57:51 > 0:57:57his learning the language, his children, his grandchildren,
0:57:57 > 0:58:01keeping everyone as together as possible.
0:58:01 > 0:58:05And striving and fighting, and the hard work and the determination
0:58:05 > 0:58:09that it took him to get to that stage.
0:58:09 > 0:58:12And look, now he's had recognition.
0:58:12 > 0:58:14Doesn't get much better than that.
0:58:20 > 0:58:22It's all done in the name of family.