0:00:02 > 0:00:03Yeah. No, I really like that.
0:00:05 > 0:00:11Actor and presenter Amanda Holden is a well-known face on stage and TV,
0:00:11 > 0:00:15most famous for her role as a judge on Britain's Got Talent.
0:00:17 > 0:00:20She lives in West London with her husband, Chris,
0:00:20 > 0:00:22and their two daughters, Hollie and Lexie.
0:00:24 > 0:00:28But, growing up, her own family life wasn't so settled.
0:00:29 > 0:00:35When I was, I think, four or five, my parents divorced.
0:00:35 > 0:00:37My father was in the Navy, so I didn't see him,
0:00:37 > 0:00:40and I lost contact with his side of the family.
0:00:42 > 0:00:48The only thing I know about my paternal grandfather was that he
0:00:48 > 0:00:53was a male nurse, which, in itself, was fairly unique.
0:00:53 > 0:00:57That and the sad fact that he committed suicide.
0:00:57 > 0:01:01I'd love to find out about the kind of man he was
0:01:01 > 0:01:04before it all went so dark for him.
0:01:04 > 0:01:08Amanda also wants to investigate a family rumour
0:01:08 > 0:01:12- on her mother's side. - My middle name is Louise,
0:01:12 > 0:01:16and my great-grandfather was called Louis.
0:01:16 > 0:01:18And I think there were lots of Louis before that.
0:01:18 > 0:01:20And my grandmother has always said,
0:01:20 > 0:01:22"Oh, it's because we're French, dear.
0:01:22 > 0:01:25"We're French." I would love it to be true.
0:02:02 > 0:02:07My mum and stepfather came to live in Cornwall about 15 years ago,
0:02:07 > 0:02:10and it's where all our ancestors are from.
0:02:10 > 0:02:15But I think the thing that really interests me is this rumour
0:02:15 > 0:02:18of a whole French side of the family.
0:02:18 > 0:02:22I would love to find a French connection.
0:02:32 > 0:02:34Amanda's mother, Judy,
0:02:34 > 0:02:39has been doing some research into their family's history.
0:02:39 > 0:02:41- Mum! - Hello.
0:02:41 > 0:02:45I was standing by watching for that car.
0:02:48 > 0:02:52Now, that is me as a French person.
0:02:52 > 0:02:53That's right. Yeah.
0:02:53 > 0:02:57- I was obsessed with dressing up as French...- I know you were.
0:02:57 > 0:02:59But it's stereotypical French.
0:02:59 > 0:03:01I don't think I've ever seen a person in a stripy T-shirt
0:03:01 > 0:03:07- with onions around his neck.- And you won by winking at the judge.
0:03:07 > 0:03:08Winking at the judge.
0:03:08 > 0:03:11Which is a good tip for anybody that comes on Britain's Got Talent.
0:03:11 > 0:03:13- And you've never looked back, have you?- No.
0:03:14 > 0:03:17Amanda knows that the name Louis
0:03:17 > 0:03:20crops up a lot in her mother's family.
0:03:20 > 0:03:23So this Louis, who is my great-grandfather,
0:03:23 > 0:03:26and your grandfather, that's Louis.
0:03:26 > 0:03:28And that was Nanny's dad.
0:03:28 > 0:03:30- Yeah. - And wasn't he a brilliant swimmer?
0:03:30 > 0:03:32Oh, yes. He was.
0:03:32 > 0:03:34Actually, I've got...
0:03:34 > 0:03:41He won a trophy in 1913 for long distance swimming in Cornwall.
0:03:41 > 0:03:44Here. It says... What does it say? Can you read it?
0:03:44 > 0:03:46Yes. Let me just put it into the light.
0:03:46 > 0:03:49"Long distance swimmer, championship."
0:03:49 > 0:03:50- Oh, don't look in there. - Why?
0:03:50 > 0:03:52- Because he's in there! - What?!
0:03:53 > 0:03:54No, he is not!
0:03:56 > 0:03:59You are sick. Oh, my God.
0:04:03 > 0:04:06Judith! Let's put him over there.
0:04:06 > 0:04:08Anyway. Sorry, may he rest in peace.
0:04:08 > 0:04:10- So that's Nannie's dad. - Yeah.
0:04:10 > 0:04:12He was a Louis.
0:04:12 > 0:04:14- That's right, yeah. - And was his dad a Louis?
0:04:14 > 0:04:16- So how many greats? - Hang on a minute.
0:04:16 > 0:04:21One, two, three, four...
0:04:21 > 0:04:23He was obviously the first Louis,
0:04:23 > 0:04:27because if you look further, that was the one that was born
0:04:27 > 0:04:29between Collin Thomas, who wasn't a Louis,
0:04:29 > 0:04:31- because... - There was no Louis at that point.
0:04:31 > 0:04:36- He married this woman called Radegonde.- A French woman.
0:04:36 > 0:04:38- Which we think... - That's a funny name.- I know.
0:04:38 > 0:04:41- Did you know what her surname was?- No. No.
0:04:41 > 0:04:45- Radegonde? - There's a census here, actually.
0:04:45 > 0:04:47Radegonde.
0:04:47 > 0:04:50This is the 1841 census.
0:04:50 > 0:04:52So, where are they?
0:04:52 > 0:04:54Gosh, how can you see? It's such spidery writing.
0:04:54 > 0:04:57OK, there.
0:04:57 > 0:05:01With one L. It should be two, because I've found out since...
0:05:01 > 0:05:05- Collin's got two Ls?- All the Collins were spelt with two Ls.
0:05:05 > 0:05:09- OK. - Mm. So he was a shoemaker.
0:05:09 > 0:05:12This makes sense to me, because I love shoes.
0:05:12 > 0:05:15- It's genetic!- He could have made you them, couldn't he?
0:05:15 > 0:05:19Loads of shoes! And he was 50 in 1841... Oh, I'm rubbish at maths.
0:05:19 > 0:05:23So that's about 17... 90-ish.
0:05:23 > 0:05:25- That he was born? - Yeah.
0:05:25 > 0:05:29And on the next one, 1871.
0:05:29 > 0:05:32If we look down...
0:05:32 > 0:05:35- Oh, there we are.- Spelt right. - Spelt properly, yes.
0:05:35 > 0:05:38Collin Thomas, Radegonde, wife.
0:05:38 > 0:05:42But, look, you look across, where born...
0:05:44 > 0:05:46- Bordeaux. - Oh, my God.
0:05:46 > 0:05:48I knew we were French.
0:05:48 > 0:05:49Yeah, I know.
0:05:49 > 0:05:51And from a wine region!
0:05:51 > 0:05:55And we made shoes! This is two really good mixes.
0:05:55 > 0:05:57This is going very well.
0:05:57 > 0:05:59It would be brilliant if you could find something out.
0:05:59 > 0:06:02What, sort of... My family history is shoes and wine!
0:06:02 > 0:06:04- Yes! - Brilliant!
0:06:11 > 0:06:14Collin Thomas is Amanda's five times great-grandfather.
0:06:15 > 0:06:17But how did her Cornish ancestor
0:06:17 > 0:06:20come to marry a French woman from Bordeaux?
0:06:22 > 0:06:23Hello.
0:06:26 > 0:06:29So, I'm going to press the South West, which is Cornwall,
0:06:31 > 0:06:33Collin - two Ls...
0:06:36 > 0:06:37..Thomas.
0:06:40 > 0:06:43- Search.- Amanda has decided to start
0:06:43 > 0:06:46by looking at old local newspaper records.
0:06:47 > 0:06:48OK, so that means...
0:06:50 > 0:06:52OK. Two mentions here.
0:06:54 > 0:06:56The general quarter...
0:06:58 > 0:07:00Now there's Fs there. Are they Ss?
0:07:00 > 0:07:02Sessions?
0:07:02 > 0:07:07"The following prisoners were found guilty.
0:07:07 > 0:07:11"Stephen somebody and Collin Thomas
0:07:11 > 0:07:14"for felonies to be imprisoned for 12 months."
0:07:16 > 0:07:17What felonies?
0:07:19 > 0:07:21Collin Thomas!
0:07:21 > 0:07:26Oh, my God, so he's gone to prison for 12 months.
0:07:27 > 0:07:29My mum is not going to be happy with that.
0:07:29 > 0:07:31My nan is going to be even less happy with that.
0:07:33 > 0:07:34Exeter.
0:07:35 > 0:07:38So that court is in Exeter.
0:07:38 > 0:07:40So I need to go to Exeter.
0:07:40 > 0:07:41Wow!
0:07:49 > 0:07:51Amanda's come to Exeter Castle,
0:07:51 > 0:07:55the site of the city's courtrooms in January 1806,
0:07:55 > 0:07:56when Collin Thomas was put on trial.
0:07:57 > 0:08:00She's meeting historian, Professor Peter King.
0:08:00 > 0:08:03- Hi, Pete. I'm Amanda. Nice to meet you.- Hi.
0:08:03 > 0:08:08So, Peter, yesterday I found out that my fifth great-grandfather,
0:08:08 > 0:08:11Collin Thomas, went to prison.
0:08:11 > 0:08:14Or something. It said 12 months for felonies.
0:08:14 > 0:08:18And I have to say, I was completely shocked, but
0:08:18 > 0:08:21my gut instinct, just straightaway, said no.
0:08:21 > 0:08:22No way. He's an innocent man.
0:08:22 > 0:08:24Innocent man. What has he done?
0:08:24 > 0:08:26OK, was he innocent? That's the question.
0:08:26 > 0:08:28- Yes!- We're going to have to go back a bit.
0:08:28 > 0:08:32A felony means it's a crime that you get tried in a Jury Court for,
0:08:32 > 0:08:34so it's a major crime.
0:08:34 > 0:08:38To do that, I need to take you back to a couple of documents that were
0:08:38 > 0:08:42several years before 1806 when he ended up in court.
0:08:42 > 0:08:45So I'm going to start you off with a document here...
0:08:45 > 0:08:48- Oh, my goodness. - ..which is an apprentice indenture.
0:08:48 > 0:08:51Have a look and you'll just... The story will begin to reveal itself.
0:08:51 > 0:08:55- Between Deborah Thomas of the borough of Truro.- There's his mum.
0:08:55 > 0:09:00So that's his mum, and Andrew Stevens of the borough of Truro,
0:09:00 > 0:09:03aforesaid coordinator...
0:09:03 > 0:09:04- Coordinator? - Cordwainer.
0:09:04 > 0:09:06Cordwainer? What's a cordwainer?
0:09:06 > 0:09:09Cordwainer is a shoemaker.
0:09:09 > 0:09:11Yes! Collin was a shoemaker.
0:09:11 > 0:09:13It's an apprenticeship for...
0:09:13 > 0:09:16And if you read on a bit you'll find out how long he's committed to it.
0:09:16 > 0:09:22OK. To serve from the date hereof for the term of seven years. Wow!
0:09:22 > 0:09:24To be fully complete and ended.
0:09:24 > 0:09:28So he can't go away at all without his master's permission.
0:09:28 > 0:09:29Oh, this is interesting.
0:09:29 > 0:09:34Look. Alehouses he shall not frequent.
0:09:35 > 0:09:38- No.- He's not allowed in the pub, basically.- No pub.
0:09:38 > 0:09:39And now I've completely lost my place.
0:09:39 > 0:09:42- So his secrets keep... - And all lawful commands...
0:09:42 > 0:09:45- In other words, he's under the hammer.- OK.- At all times.
0:09:45 > 0:09:49At all times, readily do and obey.
0:09:49 > 0:09:52- I mean, it sounds very strict. - You're bound in.
0:09:52 > 0:09:55Your master feeds you and, effectively,
0:09:55 > 0:09:57you are in his household,
0:09:57 > 0:10:00and under his control for the rest of your seven years.
0:10:00 > 0:10:03The master would be able to correct him, ie, punish him,
0:10:03 > 0:10:05corporal punishment.
0:10:05 > 0:10:08Occasionally there are cases in the 18th century when apprentices
0:10:08 > 0:10:12are beaten to death. So let's just work out how old he is,
0:10:12 > 0:10:14first of all, when he gets here.
0:10:14 > 0:10:20Well, yesterday, on the 1841 census, he was 50.
0:10:20 > 0:10:23So that means he was born in 1790.
0:10:24 > 0:10:27- 1790, yes. - So this is 1800.
0:10:27 > 0:10:28- So he's ten. - He's only ten...
0:10:28 > 0:10:32That's the same age as Lexie, my daughter.
0:10:32 > 0:10:34I still feel like it's not going to...
0:10:34 > 0:10:37- I think he's still a good person. - Right, OK.
0:10:37 > 0:10:39I kind of have a suspicion now what I think...
0:10:39 > 0:10:42Let's have a look and see what might have happened to him.
0:10:42 > 0:10:45- What's that? - This is interesting, here.
0:10:45 > 0:10:48This is the Royal Marine descriptive register
0:10:48 > 0:10:51of people that they recruited.
0:10:51 > 0:10:54Recruits like Collin were tempted into the Royal Marines
0:10:54 > 0:10:57with the promise of the King's shilling,
0:10:57 > 0:11:00a cash bounty which they received on joining up.
0:11:02 > 0:11:04- There he is. - You've got him.
0:11:04 > 0:11:06- Double L, Collin. - Yeah.
0:11:06 > 0:11:12Collin Thomas, 20th of September, 1805.
0:11:12 > 0:11:13OK, so he was 17.
0:11:13 > 0:11:14Oh... No.
0:11:14 > 0:11:17Hang on. In 1805...
0:11:18 > 0:11:20- He's not even 16. - Oh, God. He was 15.
0:11:20 > 0:11:23- He's 15.- He's 15, yeah. So he's saying he was 17.
0:11:23 > 0:11:26The really important bit is this here.
0:11:26 > 0:11:28- OK, D... - That means discharged.
0:11:28 > 0:11:31Discharged... Claimed?
0:11:31 > 0:11:34- Claimed an apprentice. - Yeah.
0:11:34 > 0:11:35Claimed an apprentice.
0:11:35 > 0:11:38So the master has come back.
0:11:38 > 0:11:39Andrew Stevens?
0:11:39 > 0:11:43Mm. Because the seven years are not yet up, and claimed him back.
0:11:43 > 0:11:45So he's there a couple of months.
0:11:45 > 0:11:47He gets a couple of months in the Marines.
0:11:47 > 0:11:51So now we're going to have a look at the calendar of prisoners.
0:11:51 > 0:11:54So this is the January session.
0:11:54 > 0:11:55January 1806.
0:11:55 > 0:11:57It was in the newspaper, yeah.
0:11:57 > 0:11:59Now, Collin Thomas.
0:11:59 > 0:12:02Oh, my gosh. It says aged 17.
0:12:02 > 0:12:05- Which he isn't. - Which he's not.
0:12:05 > 0:12:08- Mm.- Charged with unlawfully having knowingly...
0:12:08 > 0:12:09By false pretences.
0:12:09 > 0:12:14..obtained the sum of £11 and 11 shillings.
0:12:14 > 0:12:17- 11 guineas, in other words. - Yeah.- So this is...
0:12:17 > 0:12:19- So he stole somebody's money? - His signing up money.
0:12:19 > 0:12:21Oh, it's signing up money.
0:12:21 > 0:12:23- Yep. - To the Marines?
0:12:23 > 0:12:25Yep. And it's a lot of money.
0:12:25 > 0:12:30It's the equivalent of 22 weeks of a labourer's wage.
0:12:30 > 0:12:34In modern terms, at the very least, £5,000, £6,000, £7,000.
0:12:34 > 0:12:35Oh, my gosh.
0:12:35 > 0:12:38More than he'll ever have thought he'd ever have in his hand before.
0:12:38 > 0:12:40- In his life, probably. - At the age of 15.- Yes.
0:12:40 > 0:12:43So that's why he ended up here.
0:12:43 > 0:12:46And he would have gone down to the cells first of all,
0:12:46 > 0:12:49awaiting his chance to come up in court and defend himself.
0:12:49 > 0:12:51So do the cells still exist?
0:12:51 > 0:12:53There are some of them there, yeah.
0:12:54 > 0:12:55Scary.
0:12:59 > 0:13:04So these are the cells, which are now a men's toilets.
0:13:04 > 0:13:06Which is grim, anyway.
0:13:06 > 0:13:13I mean, I can't help but think... I mean, he was only 15.
0:13:13 > 0:13:16This has now, obviously, got electricity,
0:13:16 > 0:13:18so it must have been virtually dark.
0:13:18 > 0:13:22You wouldn't be able to see anything down here, I wouldn't have thought.
0:13:22 > 0:13:27The cells where Collin was held as he awaited trial were still in use
0:13:27 > 0:13:29until 2003, when the Crown Court moved.
0:13:29 > 0:13:31So depressing.
0:13:32 > 0:13:36And spooky. It feels like I can feel something down here.
0:13:36 > 0:13:37It's freezing cold.
0:13:44 > 0:13:47Crime and punishment expert, Professor Barry Godfrey,
0:13:47 > 0:13:50- is waiting for Amanda. - Nice to meet you.
0:13:50 > 0:13:52Welcome to the Exeter courtroom. An amazing place, isn't it?
0:13:52 > 0:13:54Gosh, yeah. It's massive.
0:13:54 > 0:13:57That's where the judges would have sat,
0:13:57 > 0:13:59resplendent in their scarlet robes.
0:13:59 > 0:14:03- Literally looking down on Collin. - On 15-year-old Collin.
0:14:03 > 0:14:07He's 15, but he's an adult in the eyes of the law.
0:14:07 > 0:14:10- Really?- So this is where Collin would have stood 200 years ago,
0:14:10 > 0:14:12just exactly where you're standing now.
0:14:12 > 0:14:16- Poor Collin.- And this is the document that we have that describes
0:14:16 > 0:14:17what happened on that occasion.
0:14:17 > 0:14:19Oh, gosh. So there's his name.
0:14:19 > 0:14:20Collin Thomas. OK.
0:14:20 > 0:14:23So you can see here, this is what he's charged with.
0:14:23 > 0:14:27Well knowing himself, the said Collin Thomas to be an apprentice,
0:14:27 > 0:14:33and as such, not an eligible or proper person to enlist to serve
0:14:33 > 0:14:35our said...
0:14:35 > 0:14:38- Lord.- ..Lord the King as a private soldier, but being...
0:14:38 > 0:14:39Oh, my gosh!
0:14:39 > 0:14:44Look at that! Being an evil, disposed person.
0:14:44 > 0:14:46- Evil? - Yeah.
0:14:46 > 0:14:49Well, he's taken the money, but he's not going to provide the service.
0:14:49 > 0:14:52Yes, but he tried. They came to get him back.
0:14:52 > 0:14:54He tried. He wanted to serve. But he's not free to serve.
0:14:54 > 0:14:56He belongs to his master.
0:14:56 > 0:15:00And why...? I mean, the thing that I keep wanting to ask is,
0:15:00 > 0:15:03it said that he'd served almost five and a half years
0:15:03 > 0:15:06of his apprenticeship. He only had to do seven.
0:15:06 > 0:15:09- Yep.- So what person in their right mind...?
0:15:09 > 0:15:11Somebody who's very miserable, somebody who's being ill treated.
0:15:11 > 0:15:14- OK.- Maybe somebody who wants to go off with a swashbuckling hero
0:15:14 > 0:15:16- and serve the King. - So adventure?
0:15:16 > 0:15:18- Maybe adventure.- And that's why he lied about his age.
0:15:18 > 0:15:20Well, we can see here, actually, in another document,
0:15:20 > 0:15:24- what does happen to him. - OK. Ah, here we go.
0:15:24 > 0:15:26Collin Thomas, God, this writing!
0:15:26 > 0:15:28Convicted of a felony.
0:15:28 > 0:15:33- Let him be imprisoned in Bridewell, is that?- That's it.
0:15:33 > 0:15:38For the space of 12 months and kept to hard labour.
0:15:38 > 0:15:41Bridewell is another name for a house of correction.
0:15:41 > 0:15:43He's there to have his behaviour corrected.
0:15:43 > 0:15:45- Right.- And the hard labour really is hard labour.
0:15:45 > 0:15:48- And what would that be? - So, in Exeter Bridewell,
0:15:48 > 0:15:50it would have been stripping bark.
0:15:50 > 0:15:52So that's used in the tanning process,
0:15:52 > 0:15:55- where the hide is dipped in urine... - Oh!
0:15:55 > 0:16:00- So he would have been in pretty miserable...- Smelly, awful...
0:16:00 > 0:16:02Wet, smelly, yeah, unhealthy conditions.
0:16:02 > 0:16:04- That is not good. - No.
0:16:04 > 0:16:06So what happens to him afterwards? In 1807?
0:16:06 > 0:16:09We don't know what happened to him when he came out.
0:16:09 > 0:16:12Like lots of people, we just lose track of Collin.
0:16:12 > 0:16:16No record survives of Collin being released from prison,
0:16:16 > 0:16:19but Barry has found another document.
0:16:19 > 0:16:20So this is in French.
0:16:20 > 0:16:22- Uh-huh. - Gosh!
0:16:23 > 0:16:25Why didn't I listen very much in my French...?
0:16:25 > 0:16:27Ah, here we go. That's basically English.
0:16:27 > 0:16:31Acte de mariage. Marriage. Act of marriage.
0:16:31 > 0:16:33Absolutely. Something a little bit more pleasant for Collin.
0:16:33 > 0:16:38So how much longer after he left prison is this?
0:16:38 > 0:16:40This is about ten years.
0:16:40 > 0:16:44- Ten years!- Ten years we lose track of Collin, then he turns up here.
0:16:44 > 0:16:46And, look, hang on.
0:16:46 > 0:16:48Is that just because it's on the marriage certificate
0:16:48 > 0:16:51that it says "Thomas Colin" there, not "Collin Thomas"?
0:16:51 > 0:16:52The name's reversed.
0:16:52 > 0:16:54It may be because that's the way the French did it at the time.
0:16:54 > 0:16:58- Right.- It may be that he's changed his name to escape his past.
0:16:58 > 0:17:00- I'm going with that one. - It could be that.
0:17:00 > 0:17:03Because, look, I know that her name is Rad-e-GOOD.
0:17:03 > 0:17:05- Or however you say it. - Rad-e-GOND.
0:17:05 > 0:17:08- Rad-e-GOND.- Rad-e-GOND. - Wow.
0:17:08 > 0:17:09Her name's the right way around.
0:17:09 > 0:17:12That's right. So it may be that he's done that just to throw people off
0:17:12 > 0:17:15the scent, so he can put his past behind him.
0:17:15 > 0:17:17And that must be her surname.
0:17:17 > 0:17:19Charbonnel, which was what eluded my mum.
0:17:19 > 0:17:22This is the point she got completely stuck.
0:17:22 > 0:17:25We also know where they married as well.
0:17:25 > 0:17:26Oh, my God, where?
0:17:26 > 0:17:28That's really tricky to read.
0:17:30 > 0:17:32A... Is that an A or a C?
0:17:32 > 0:17:34That's A. In Caudrot.
0:17:34 > 0:17:36- Caudrot? - Yeah.
0:17:36 > 0:17:37- Your accent's a bit better than mine.- Caudrot.
0:17:37 > 0:17:40Yeah. That's a nice village south-east of Bordeaux.
0:17:41 > 0:17:43- That is even better. - Yep.
0:17:45 > 0:17:46It's a new beginning for Collin.
0:17:46 > 0:17:49- Yes.- A marriage, a new land, and as a free man.
0:17:59 > 0:18:01I absolutely love France.
0:18:01 > 0:18:03I mean...
0:18:03 > 0:18:07It's the most... This region is particularly gorgeous.
0:18:07 > 0:18:12I'm so curious to find out how Collin ended up here.
0:18:12 > 0:18:16How did a little shoemaker -
0:18:16 > 0:18:20just out of prison, as well - how did he get to Bordeaux?
0:18:30 > 0:18:33Amanda has come to the city of Bordeaux,
0:18:33 > 0:18:36the centre of France's famous winemaking region.
0:18:38 > 0:18:39Hello. I'm Amanda.
0:18:39 > 0:18:42I'm Carol Duvall. Welcome to Bordeaux.
0:18:42 > 0:18:43Thank you.
0:18:43 > 0:18:48Historian Carol Duvall has been researching Collin's time in France.
0:18:51 > 0:18:55So I suppose the question is, how did Collin get here?
0:18:55 > 0:18:58He got here because he was in Wellington's Peninsular Army.
0:18:59 > 0:19:01- Oh, my God. - Yes.
0:19:01 > 0:19:04Well, you know what Wellington said about his army?
0:19:04 > 0:19:05The scum of the earth!
0:19:06 > 0:19:11And therefore, you know, he would welcome ex-prisoners.
0:19:11 > 0:19:16And a year before he joined up, the Peninsular War had started.
0:19:16 > 0:19:18Napoleon, of course, had declared himself emperor by this time
0:19:18 > 0:19:20and he's extending his empire.
0:19:20 > 0:19:23I mean, his plan is to rule the whole of Europe.
0:19:23 > 0:19:27So after he left prison he joined up again?
0:19:27 > 0:19:29- This is a muster. - So where is he?
0:19:29 > 0:19:32Where is he? Ah, Collin, Thomas.
0:19:33 > 0:19:37Collin's name is on a register of soldiers serving in the Army
0:19:37 > 0:19:40on the 25th of September, 1807.
0:19:41 > 0:19:45- He joined the 51st light infantry. - OK.
0:19:45 > 0:19:49That was a very good regiment.
0:19:49 > 0:19:52And this gives you some idea of what he would have looked like
0:19:52 > 0:19:54- in his uniform. - Oh, my gosh!
0:19:54 > 0:19:59Mind you, when we talk about what he did for seven years,
0:19:59 > 0:20:01- he wouldn't have looked like that all the time.- No.
0:20:01 > 0:20:03They got new uniforms, in theory, once a year.
0:20:03 > 0:20:06- By the end of the year...- Oh, it would have been really grotty!
0:20:06 > 0:20:09- There was lice... - Ugh!
0:20:09 > 0:20:11It was just pretty horrendous, in fact.
0:20:11 > 0:20:14- Oh, my gosh. - He was in the 51st,
0:20:14 > 0:20:18which means that he took part in some really quite dramatic events.
0:20:19 > 0:20:25For seven years from 1807, the Peninsular War pitched the forces of
0:20:25 > 0:20:28Britain, Spain and Portugal against Napoleon's French army.
0:20:30 > 0:20:33Collin went first to the Iberian Peninsula,
0:20:33 > 0:20:37fighting his way up through Spain, as the Duke of Wellington
0:20:37 > 0:20:40battled Napoleon's forces, driving them back into France.
0:20:42 > 0:20:46By the time Wellington reached Bordeaux in 1814, the
0:20:46 > 0:20:49local population, who were sympathetic to Britain, had turned
0:20:49 > 0:20:55against Napoleon, and welcomed Wellington's army into the city.
0:20:55 > 0:20:58So, on the 12th of March, the seventh division...
0:20:58 > 0:21:01- OK.- ..which is the division that Collin is in,
0:21:01 > 0:21:03march into Bordeaux.
0:21:03 > 0:21:05They have cheers.
0:21:05 > 0:21:10He will have seen people actually throwing flowers and blowing kisses.
0:21:10 > 0:21:13- That would have been around here somewhere?- All round here, yes.
0:21:13 > 0:21:18That's right. So his particular Brigade of the seventh division
0:21:18 > 0:21:21are sent upstream - so that's up that way somewhere -
0:21:21 > 0:21:24to a string of villages, and there they are billeted.
0:21:24 > 0:21:28And now we move on to May 1814.
0:21:28 > 0:21:32At this point, this regiment, the 51st, were about to set sail
0:21:32 > 0:21:36- back to England, because, of course, the war was over.- Where is he?
0:21:36 > 0:21:38Collin. Oh, there's lots of Thomases.
0:21:38 > 0:21:43- Yes, yes. - OK, Thomas... Collin Thomas.
0:21:43 > 0:21:4425th of May...
0:21:47 > 0:21:48..deserted. No!
0:21:48 > 0:21:50- Yes. - Deserted?
0:21:50 > 0:21:53Yes. He must have deserted for a very good reason.
0:21:53 > 0:21:56- He's coming up to seven years' service.- Yes.
0:21:56 > 0:21:57He would have got a pension.
0:21:57 > 0:21:59The Army gave pensions for seven years' service.
0:21:59 > 0:22:01He doesn't like to do things that are seven years.
0:22:01 > 0:22:04His apprenticeship was seven years, and he finished that early as well.
0:22:04 > 0:22:08- The seven year itch.- It's interesting when you look at where
0:22:08 > 0:22:12the headquarters of the 51st was at this point.
0:22:12 > 0:22:16It was at a little village called Caudrot.
0:22:16 > 0:22:20- OK. This makes sense now. - And to throw up your pension...
0:22:21 > 0:22:24- It must be for love. - A very strong inducement, yes.- Yes.
0:22:24 > 0:22:28- It's not fear.- No.- We know he's been through all this.
0:22:28 > 0:22:32- He's coped with it.- Yes.- As far as we know he was never in trouble,
0:22:32 > 0:22:34no regimental court-martial, or anything like that.
0:22:34 > 0:22:38- So he was a good soldier. - So he deserted for love.
0:22:39 > 0:22:43- Which I love. - I'm such a romantic.
0:22:43 > 0:22:44That's incredible.
0:22:44 > 0:22:48I just think what a gorgeous man to follow his heart,
0:22:48 > 0:22:49but to be that tough and that strong.
0:22:49 > 0:22:51He's also lucky he has a trade, doesn't he?
0:22:51 > 0:22:53Yes, a cordwainer.
0:22:53 > 0:22:57A skill that will be acceptable wherever he settles.
0:22:57 > 0:22:59Always get a trade, that's what my nan says.
0:22:59 > 0:23:01- Absolutely. - This is our family.
0:23:02 > 0:23:04- I talked about the scum of the earth.- Yes.
0:23:04 > 0:23:06- Wellington said that. - Yes.
0:23:06 > 0:23:12But he also said, "See what fine fellows we've made of them."
0:23:12 > 0:23:15The best army, most military historians agree,
0:23:15 > 0:23:19the best army we ever put in the field was the Peninsular Army
0:23:19 > 0:23:22at the end of the Peninsular War.
0:23:22 > 0:23:24That is incredible. I don't know why I'm welling up.
0:23:24 > 0:23:27- I just feel so proud. - It's a lovely story.
0:23:30 > 0:23:33He joined as a lad. I suspect he left as a man.
0:23:33 > 0:23:36He left as a man. A lovely, gorgeous man.
0:24:01 > 0:24:04So we're going upriver,
0:24:04 > 0:24:08and I think we're doing the same journey that Collin will have done
0:24:08 > 0:24:10from Bordeaux to Caudrot.
0:24:10 > 0:24:13And so... Which is why it's fascinating for me, because
0:24:13 > 0:24:16I'm looking all around, thinking the landscape's exactly the same.
0:24:16 > 0:24:21So he will have seen these trees, that chateaux.
0:24:21 > 0:24:23I'm literally seeing what he's seen.
0:24:23 > 0:24:25It's incredible.
0:24:27 > 0:24:30Caudrot sits on the banks of the Garrone River,
0:24:30 > 0:24:3340 miles upstream from Bordeaux.
0:24:33 > 0:24:36Collin came here in the spring of 1814.
0:24:38 > 0:24:42Amanda has arranged to meet historian, Dr Gregory Chaput.
0:24:44 > 0:24:46- Bonjour. - Bonjour.
0:24:46 > 0:24:48- Hello. I'm Gregory. - Hello, Gregory, I'm Amanda.
0:24:48 > 0:24:50So this is Caudrot.
0:24:50 > 0:24:53Yeah, it is. You're actually on the Port of Caudrot.
0:24:53 > 0:24:57- Right.- Which was the Port of Caudrot in the early 19th century,
0:24:57 > 0:25:00that would have been a very bustling place.
0:25:00 > 0:25:02I've got postcards. You can see the river,
0:25:02 > 0:25:05full of boats and barges on which the goods were loaded.
0:25:05 > 0:25:08- The landscape's absolutely just unchanged.- Yeah, you can see.
0:25:08 > 0:25:12- Even the Cedar tree there, look, and the house, everything.- Exactly.
0:25:12 > 0:25:14It's the same thing. As you know, from Bordeaux,
0:25:14 > 0:25:17- this place was quite anti-Napoleon. - Mm-hm.
0:25:17 > 0:25:21So the local people would welcome the British troops.
0:25:21 > 0:25:23And there would be fraternisation,
0:25:23 > 0:25:26- and I've got here a very interesting document.- Mm-hm.
0:25:26 > 0:25:29So this was written by Lieutenant William Hare,
0:25:29 > 0:25:31who was in the same regiment as Collin.
0:25:31 > 0:25:32It's like a grid.
0:25:32 > 0:25:35Yeah, it is. Actually, it's written in two directions.
0:25:35 > 0:25:40- Why?- He wanted to use all paper, actually, so he didn't want to...
0:25:40 > 0:25:42Waste a tiny inch of space.
0:25:42 > 0:25:44- Exactly. - Oh, my goodness.
0:25:44 > 0:25:52"If I remain long in this country, and withstand seduction..."
0:25:52 > 0:25:54Yeah. It's underlined.
0:25:55 > 0:25:59"..it will be wonderful,
0:25:59 > 0:26:05"for I never saw such women in my life."
0:26:05 > 0:26:07- He's writing this to his wife? - Exactly.
0:26:10 > 0:26:17"At a party the other night, a handsome friend of mine
0:26:17 > 0:26:21"was there when one of the daughters
0:26:21 > 0:26:29"of the house gave him privately the key to her bedroom,
0:26:29 > 0:26:32"into which he found the way."
0:26:32 > 0:26:35Gosh, wouldn't that be amazing if that was Collin?
0:26:35 > 0:26:37Well, it could have been, actually, yeah.
0:26:37 > 0:26:41- So they were beautiful women. - Exactly.- And quite naughty!
0:26:41 > 0:26:46You see, I know I've inherited that as well from Radegonde.
0:26:46 > 0:26:49- That shows they got along very well. - I love that, yes!
0:26:49 > 0:26:51So that's what you mean by fraternisation.
0:26:51 > 0:26:54- That's a polite word for... We won't say.- Exactly.
0:26:56 > 0:26:59- So Collin... - Collin was having a fabulous time.
0:26:59 > 0:27:01I have to say, I think he blinking deserved it.
0:27:01 > 0:27:03Because he's been through so much.
0:27:03 > 0:27:07- He's fought so many battles. - That's true.
0:27:07 > 0:27:10The key to somebody's room is the very least he could expect.
0:27:10 > 0:27:13- And a barrel of wine. - Right, that's true!
0:27:14 > 0:27:18If you want we could go up the street here to have a look at
0:27:18 > 0:27:22- Radegonde's family house? - Really?- Yes.
0:27:22 > 0:27:25Oh, my God! Really?
0:27:34 > 0:27:37Collin, he wasn't an ordinary man, I think we've established that.
0:27:37 > 0:27:40But he was a private, he was a shoemaker, so that's quite humble.
0:27:40 > 0:27:43So I would imagine she had quite humble beginnings.
0:27:43 > 0:27:45Well...
0:27:45 > 0:27:48you're standing in front of it.
0:27:48 > 0:27:51- That's the actual house. - This house, number nine?- Yep.
0:27:55 > 0:27:58It's a good size.
0:27:58 > 0:28:02The whole row of houses here, it was full of shops.
0:28:02 > 0:28:05I've got here a picture showing the house,
0:28:05 > 0:28:07- so you can see the balcony was not here.- Yes.
0:28:13 > 0:28:17And that was the actual look of the house and Radegonde and her father
0:28:17 > 0:28:19Gerard Charbonnel...
0:28:19 > 0:28:22- What was his name? Gerard? - Gerard, yes. Charbonnel.
0:28:22 > 0:28:25- Charbonnel.- And her mother was Catherine Labrousse.- Mm-hm.
0:28:25 > 0:28:28This was the high street of Caudrot,
0:28:28 > 0:28:31linking the market street to the port, where we've been.
0:28:31 > 0:28:34And so Collin would not have had very far to come.
0:28:34 > 0:28:37- Just literally a little walk up the hill for secret trysts.- Exactly.
0:28:37 > 0:28:39Because I can't imagine she was naughty.
0:28:39 > 0:28:41She wouldn't have wanted to upset her parents.
0:28:41 > 0:28:46So could this have been the house when Collin deserted,
0:28:46 > 0:28:50that she could have possibly hidden him in?
0:28:50 > 0:28:53Well, that could have been. We have no evidence for that.
0:28:53 > 0:28:56But we know he was there. We know he met Radegonde.
0:28:56 > 0:28:58We know they fell in love.
0:28:58 > 0:29:03And we know they got married about 18 months later in early 1816.
0:29:03 > 0:29:06So they got married in the mairie, which was the town hall.
0:29:06 > 0:29:09- So not in the church? - Well, the church afterwards.- Right.
0:29:09 > 0:29:12They had a service there afterwards, like a blessing, if you would.
0:29:12 > 0:29:14So the church is not far away from here.
0:29:14 > 0:29:16- We can have a look, if you want? - I want.- OK.
0:29:25 > 0:29:27In France, marriage is always a civil ceremony,
0:29:27 > 0:29:29performed by the Mayor.
0:29:30 > 0:29:34In 1816, Radegonde and Collin would have followed this
0:29:34 > 0:29:36by going to the church for a religious service.
0:29:43 > 0:29:46So this is much grander than I thought.
0:29:51 > 0:29:54I've got extra information about the marriage.
0:29:56 > 0:30:00Actually, they've drawn up this prenup agreement.
0:30:00 > 0:30:02What? A prenup?
0:30:02 > 0:30:05- Well, it's a kind of prenup agreement, yes.- In 1816?
0:30:05 > 0:30:08- Yeah, in 1816. - Is that usual?
0:30:08 > 0:30:13Well, it wasn't usual, but I'd say that in the family of Radegonde,
0:30:13 > 0:30:15it was quite usual. It was kind of...
0:30:15 > 0:30:18Catherine Labrousse, her mother, did the same thing.
0:30:18 > 0:30:21So it's like a pattern in the family.
0:30:21 > 0:30:23I'm loving this - feisty women!
0:30:23 > 0:30:26- Exactly. Maybe they wanted to be independent, or...- Yeah.
0:30:26 > 0:30:29- So you've got a translation here. - Right.
0:30:29 > 0:30:33So it says, "Under and before God, Mr Thomas Collins..."
0:30:33 > 0:30:35I said this.
0:30:35 > 0:30:38I said he must have turned his name round.
0:30:38 > 0:30:42- Now we know, probably, why.- Now I know for absolutely sure, and why.
0:30:42 > 0:30:46Because he deserted, so he might have wanted to change his name,
0:30:46 > 0:30:47and to hide a bit.
0:30:47 > 0:30:50"Here Radegonde Charbonnel, minor."
0:30:51 > 0:30:54Minor? So was she underage?
0:30:54 > 0:30:56She was under 21.
0:30:56 > 0:31:00- That's what it means. - I wonder if that's why they waited.
0:31:00 > 0:31:04Because he landed at 1814, they got married in 1816.
0:31:04 > 0:31:06You would think... They just waited.
0:31:06 > 0:31:08Maybe.
0:31:08 > 0:31:13"The future spouses declare that there was born out of wedlock
0:31:13 > 0:31:17"a child of the feminine gender, to which they gave the name Catherine.
0:31:17 > 0:31:20"Born last the 26th of October
0:31:20 > 0:31:23"to legitimise, and legally recognise her."
0:31:25 > 0:31:26It's true.
0:31:26 > 0:31:29- Out of wedlock. So they didn't wait! - No, they didn't wait.
0:31:29 > 0:31:32- Oh, my God!- So you've got the answer to your question.
0:31:33 > 0:31:37- But I didn't know anything about her.- Well, that's their first child.
0:31:38 > 0:31:43- Remember the letter we read earlier about William Hare?- Yes.
0:31:43 > 0:31:48So maybe Radegonde gave the key to her bedroom to...
0:31:51 > 0:31:53There was me thinking,
0:31:53 > 0:31:57"They waited two years so they could get married and do it all right,
0:31:57 > 0:32:00"the right way round." Although, you know, what is the right way round?
0:32:00 > 0:32:02A baby is everything.
0:32:02 > 0:32:06How amazing. Would the French have been a bit more relaxed about that?
0:32:06 > 0:32:09I don't know. At the time, probably not.
0:32:09 > 0:32:12So after that, they had Louis, as you know.
0:32:12 > 0:32:18- In 1818.- Mm-hm.- And sometime before 1821 they moved back to England.
0:32:18 > 0:32:23We know that because they had another child, another girl,
0:32:23 > 0:32:28actually, born in Truro, in Cornwall, in 1821, Lisbeth.
0:32:28 > 0:32:30And they had nine children.
0:32:30 > 0:32:31- What?! - In total.
0:32:31 > 0:32:38- Nine?- Nine, including Catherine, Louis, Lisbeth, and the others.
0:32:38 > 0:32:39So they went back to England,
0:32:39 > 0:32:43but there is a French line of your family staying here, obviously.
0:32:43 > 0:32:45- Yes. - Catherine Labrousse, for example.
0:32:45 > 0:32:48So I've got another document here.
0:32:50 > 0:32:53- So this is... - Oh, I want to cry, I'm so happy.
0:32:54 > 0:32:57- So this is a document from 1832. - OK.
0:32:58 > 0:33:02It's about Catherine Labrousse, who is Radegonde's mother.
0:33:02 > 0:33:05So this document is actually listing a property.
0:33:05 > 0:33:08It says that she has a vineyard.
0:33:08 > 0:33:09What?!
0:33:10 > 0:33:12It's true.
0:33:12 > 0:33:13Oh, yes!
0:33:13 > 0:33:16Une piece de terre en vigne. That's what it means.
0:33:16 > 0:33:17Piece de terre en vigne.
0:33:17 > 0:33:20- Where's that? - And we actually have the name of it.
0:33:20 > 0:33:25- It's named Castouret. - Castouret.
0:33:25 > 0:33:28In the commune of Caudrot.
0:33:28 > 0:33:31Does it...? Is it...? Tell me it still exists!
0:33:31 > 0:33:34- It actually still exists. - Do they produce wine from it?
0:33:34 > 0:33:37Well, they still produce wine in this area.
0:33:37 > 0:33:40This is a modern map of Caudrot.
0:33:40 > 0:33:44- Oh, my God. - This is the centre of Caudrot.
0:33:44 > 0:33:48And if you look about here...
0:33:48 > 0:33:50- You can read... - Oh, yes, Castouret.
0:33:50 > 0:33:52Exactly. So that's the place.
0:33:52 > 0:33:54And there's still a vineyard there.
0:33:54 > 0:33:56So would she have gone there? Would she have worked there?
0:33:56 > 0:34:01Well, her mother, Catherine Labrousse's mother was called Radegonde.
0:34:01 > 0:34:03- Right. - Radegonde Ballan.
0:34:06 > 0:34:10Amanda has now discovered three generations of her maternal French
0:34:10 > 0:34:15ancestors, back to her seven times great-grandmother, Radegonde Ballan.
0:34:16 > 0:34:19The Ballans were a family of winemakers.
0:34:19 > 0:34:22They had several vineyards in the area.
0:34:23 > 0:34:25- Several? - And one of them was Castouret.
0:34:25 > 0:34:28Oh, I love you, Gregory!
0:34:28 > 0:34:30- Oh, my God. - So you could go there if you want.
0:34:30 > 0:34:32- I'm so going there. - Now we know where it is.
0:34:32 > 0:34:35I'm going there. They were owners!
0:34:36 > 0:34:37That's like a dream.
0:34:37 > 0:34:38- That's... - Oh, that's good.
0:34:47 > 0:34:51So, Gregory said come and find Castouret vineyard,
0:34:51 > 0:34:53so I'm literally at the fork here.
0:34:53 > 0:34:58There's a road there, road there. It's got to be over here somewhere.
0:35:08 > 0:35:09It's just incredible.
0:35:09 > 0:35:12This legacy has been inherited or passed down through all the women
0:35:12 > 0:35:16in the family. That's, in itself, unique.
0:35:16 > 0:35:17Three generations of women.
0:35:19 > 0:35:22I couldn't have asked for anything better.
0:35:22 > 0:35:24My family used to own a vineyard. That's like heaven.
0:35:26 > 0:35:28So this is it. Chateaux Castouret.
0:35:30 > 0:35:32- WINE GLUGS - I love that noise.
0:35:37 > 0:35:41For Collin to end up here,
0:35:41 > 0:35:44after so much...
0:35:44 > 0:35:46I don't know, I think the thing I love about Collin the most is he was
0:35:46 > 0:35:49a rule breaker. He was very instinctive.
0:35:49 > 0:35:51He led with his heart.
0:35:52 > 0:35:55He, kind of, didn't care if he got into trouble.
0:35:55 > 0:36:00He did what he felt was right, against all the odds.
0:36:00 > 0:36:02And it all turned out for him in the end.
0:36:04 > 0:36:06Cheers.
0:36:09 > 0:36:12It's actually delicious, you know.
0:36:12 > 0:36:14Apparently it was a very good year, 2010.
0:36:18 > 0:36:21Amanda's now returning to England to investigate
0:36:21 > 0:36:24her paternal grandfather, Frank Holden.
0:36:26 > 0:36:29On that side of the family, Amanda has less to go on.
0:36:34 > 0:36:39After her parents divorced, Amanda lost touch with her father, Frank,
0:36:39 > 0:36:42and never met her grandfather, Frank Holden senior,
0:36:42 > 0:36:46who died in 1983, aged 71.
0:36:46 > 0:36:50- Hello.- How lovely to see you. - How lovely to see you.
0:36:50 > 0:36:54Amanda's arranged to meet her Uncle George, her father's brother.
0:36:55 > 0:36:58George has brought Frank senior's photo albums with him.
0:36:59 > 0:37:03- Oh, look at him there.- He used to do the singing and dancing,
0:37:03 > 0:37:06- and entertaining.- Because I've always wondered where this...
0:37:06 > 0:37:09- Theatrical.- ..theatre side of me has come from.- Yeah.
0:37:09 > 0:37:11And so it's obviously come from the Holden side.
0:37:11 > 0:37:15The Holden family, both his brothers were entertainers.
0:37:15 > 0:37:22All I know, very sadly, about Frank senior is that, you know,
0:37:22 > 0:37:27I got a phone call from my mum to say that he'd taken his own life,
0:37:27 > 0:37:30and that's just, you know... It's heartbreaking.
0:37:30 > 0:37:32A lot of people were devastated.
0:37:32 > 0:37:35I never met anybody who had a bad word to say against him.
0:37:37 > 0:37:38Gosh, this is very precious.
0:37:38 > 0:37:40They are getting a bit old and fragile, these.
0:37:40 > 0:37:42No, it's just nice to have, isn't it?
0:37:42 > 0:37:46Oh, wow. So this is, what year is this, do you know?
0:37:46 > 0:37:48That will be about 1942.
0:37:48 > 0:37:51- During the war. - What did he do in the Army?
0:37:51 > 0:37:52He was in the Royal Army Medical Corps.
0:37:52 > 0:37:55He was a psychiatric nurse, he obviously...
0:37:55 > 0:37:56With his nursing training
0:37:56 > 0:37:59from before the war he was very well qualified.
0:37:59 > 0:38:03- When it started, obviously, he was a nothing, a Private.- Mm-hm.
0:38:03 > 0:38:04He ended up as a regimental Sergeant Major,
0:38:04 > 0:38:07which is the highest non-commissioned rank you can get,
0:38:07 > 0:38:10so he really is pulling up through the ranks.
0:38:12 > 0:38:15Gosh. He's very handsome.
0:38:16 > 0:38:17He's like a movie star there.
0:38:19 > 0:38:24Now, you see this person here, covered in oil...
0:38:24 > 0:38:27- Is that oil, not blood? - Oil and water.
0:38:29 > 0:38:32- That's your grandad. - What is he doing?
0:38:32 > 0:38:34He was shipwrecked.
0:38:34 > 0:38:36Really? Shipwrecked?
0:38:36 > 0:38:38In the 1940s, was this?
0:38:38 > 0:38:41Yes, 1940 exactly. June 1940.
0:38:41 > 0:38:43What was the name of the ship he was on?
0:38:43 > 0:38:45He was on the Lancastria.
0:38:45 > 0:38:47- I've never heard of that. - No, I don't suppose you have.
0:38:47 > 0:38:50It was one of these things that was kept very quiet during the war.
0:38:50 > 0:38:52- OK.- He used to get quite emotional about it,
0:38:52 > 0:38:53and that was unusual for my dad,
0:38:53 > 0:38:56because he was a very calm and collected guy.
0:38:56 > 0:38:58- But look at him. He's... - He's dishing out a pot of tea.
0:38:58 > 0:39:01Dishing out tea. He literally, just nearly drowned at that point,
0:39:01 > 0:39:02and now he's giving tea to everybody.
0:39:02 > 0:39:06He used to say to my brother and I, you know,
0:39:06 > 0:39:08"You've never been in the Navy until you've been shipwrecked."
0:39:16 > 0:39:18So I learned an awful lot about Frank senior then,
0:39:18 > 0:39:22but I think the most poignant and interesting was the fact that
0:39:22 > 0:39:25he was shipwrecked. So I think I need to find out, well,
0:39:25 > 0:39:27go and find his army records, I suppose.
0:39:27 > 0:39:30Look up the Lancastria.
0:39:41 > 0:39:45Amanda has an appointment at the Aldershot headquarters
0:39:45 > 0:39:48of the Royal Army Medical Corps, with their historian,
0:39:48 > 0:39:49Captain Peter Starling.
0:39:52 > 0:39:56So, Peter, I'm learning about my paternal grandfather, Frank Holden...
0:39:56 > 0:40:01Senior. I know he was a nurse,
0:40:01 > 0:40:04and I know he joined the Army.
0:40:04 > 0:40:05And that's about it, really.
0:40:05 > 0:40:08- Did you ever meet him, or...? - I didn't know him, no.
0:40:08 > 0:40:10I didn't know anything about him at all.
0:40:10 > 0:40:13He was obviously a very exceptional psychiatric nurse.
0:40:15 > 0:40:17"Dear Sir, I have pleasure in informing you that you
0:40:17 > 0:40:22"qualified for the Campbell Clark medal and prize.
0:40:22 > 0:40:24"Your medal is being engraved and will be forwarded
0:40:24 > 0:40:27"with a cheque for three guineas
0:40:27 > 0:40:29"in the near future."
0:40:29 > 0:40:33This medal, which is awarded for the person gaining top marks
0:40:33 > 0:40:36- in his examinations. - Oh, wow. In the country?
0:40:36 > 0:40:38Yes. He's going to be quite sought after.
0:40:38 > 0:40:41See, this is what interests me, because I didn't know...
0:40:41 > 0:40:44I thought that post-traumatic stress syndrome and, you know,
0:40:44 > 0:40:47mental health care with the Army and all our armed forces
0:40:47 > 0:40:49was a relatively new idea,
0:40:49 > 0:40:52and that they just kind of told you to get on with it back then.
0:40:52 > 0:40:55No, not by the time that we're looking at here,
0:40:55 > 0:40:58approaching the Second World War.
0:40:58 > 0:40:59It was after the First World War, really,
0:40:59 > 0:41:04with all the soldiers suffering from shellshock that they realised that
0:41:04 > 0:41:07this isn't cowardice. It's not a lack of moral fibre.
0:41:07 > 0:41:12It's a hidden wound. And we needed male nurses, doctors,
0:41:12 > 0:41:15who were trained to look after our psychiatric cases.
0:41:15 > 0:41:16So he would have been snapped up?
0:41:16 > 0:41:18He would have been snapped up.
0:41:18 > 0:41:20- Now the war clouds are looming, aren't they?- Yeah.
0:41:20 > 0:41:22- Through the summer of 1939. - Yes.
0:41:22 > 0:41:25And eventually, Britain declares war on Germany.
0:41:25 > 0:41:30- In September.- And I don't know if you can read this, it says...
0:41:30 > 0:41:34Mobilised. 1st of September, 1939.
0:41:35 > 0:41:37And then underneath it?
0:41:37 > 0:41:39- BEF? - British Expeditionary Force.
0:41:41 > 0:41:43Frank Holden was one of the first members of the
0:41:43 > 0:41:47British Expeditionary Force sent to France in September 1939
0:41:47 > 0:41:51to protect Western Europe from German invasion.
0:41:55 > 0:42:00He joined a team of about 200 medics, known as a field ambulance.
0:42:03 > 0:42:09On the 10th of May 1940, Germany invaded, unleashing blitzkrieg,
0:42:09 > 0:42:14lightning war, quickly overwhelming Allied forces.
0:42:14 > 0:42:18Nursing orderlies like Frank were the front line medics of their day,
0:42:18 > 0:42:21and would have been in the thick of the action.
0:42:21 > 0:42:2426th of May, 1940, is the crucial date.
0:42:24 > 0:42:28The British Army is being pushed back by the Germans
0:42:28 > 0:42:31towards the French coast at Dunkirk, and, as you know,
0:42:31 > 0:42:34this big flotilla of ships goes over there and rescues the British Army.
0:42:34 > 0:42:35- Yes. yes. - But look at this date here.
0:42:35 > 0:42:37That's the 26th of May 1940.
0:42:37 > 0:42:40But if you look at Frank's date...
0:42:40 > 0:42:43He doesn't leave France until the 20th of June.
0:42:43 > 0:42:46- Oh, until June.- Yes. - So where was he?
0:42:46 > 0:42:51Trapped south of Dunkirk, in St Nazaire.
0:42:51 > 0:42:55There's thousands more British soldiers that are there
0:42:55 > 0:42:58- in this little enclave. - So he was left behind?
0:42:58 > 0:43:03- He was left behind.- So, I know that Frank was shipwrecked.
0:43:03 > 0:43:06Could it have been a ship that was trying to get him home
0:43:06 > 0:43:08that was actually shipwrecked? The Lancastria.
0:43:08 > 0:43:13There's nothing in his record here that says he was on the Lancastria,
0:43:13 > 0:43:14or that he was shipwrecked.
0:43:14 > 0:43:17- There's no clue. If you didn't know, you just wouldn't know.- No.
0:43:17 > 0:43:19It looks like I'm going to have to go back to France!
0:43:19 > 0:43:20- I think so. - Brittany.
0:43:20 > 0:43:23I think if you go to Brittany you might find, hopefully,
0:43:23 > 0:43:25something else about him.
0:43:40 > 0:43:44So I'm heading towards St Nazaire to find out more about my grandfather,
0:43:44 > 0:43:48and his efforts to escape the Germans.
0:43:49 > 0:43:52I'm basically following the same route,
0:43:52 > 0:43:54on almost the same mode of travel.
0:44:02 > 0:44:05Amanda has discovered that her grandfather was stranded in France
0:44:05 > 0:44:08after the evacuation of Dunkirk,
0:44:08 > 0:44:11and ended up in St Nazaire,
0:44:11 > 0:44:14450 miles further south along the Brittany coast.
0:44:32 > 0:44:36Amanda is in the port of St Nazaire to find out more about the ship,
0:44:36 > 0:44:37the Lancastria,
0:44:37 > 0:44:41which she knows her grandfather was on when he was shipwrecked.
0:44:43 > 0:44:45She's meeting historian, Jonathan Fenby.
0:44:47 > 0:44:49So these are the docks, the quayside...
0:44:49 > 0:44:51- OK. - ..of St Nazaire.
0:44:52 > 0:44:56This is what it would have looked like, so it was a very, very...
0:44:56 > 0:44:58- Had been a very lively place. - Mm.
0:44:58 > 0:45:03Quite certainly. And these are men marching down the quayside,
0:45:03 > 0:45:08trying to get onto a lot of small boats which were moored here.
0:45:08 > 0:45:11Because the big boats, which had come in the rescue flotilla,
0:45:11 > 0:45:15including the Lancastria, were anchored four miles or so out there.
0:45:15 > 0:45:19It's very wide, the Loire estuary at this point, but it's very shallow,
0:45:19 > 0:45:22- so they couldn't get close in. - Right.
0:45:22 > 0:45:24They had to all be ferried out in much smaller boats.
0:45:26 > 0:45:3230,000 service personnel descended on St Nazaire from all over France.
0:45:34 > 0:45:37Everyone was desperate to find a way out,
0:45:37 > 0:45:38before German forces attacked.
0:45:41 > 0:45:43And when the men were here, they were looking...
0:45:43 > 0:45:45They all wanted to go out to the Lancastria.
0:45:45 > 0:45:48- They all thought it was the safest place to be.- Mm.
0:45:48 > 0:45:51One said, "It's as solid as the Strand Palace Hotel."
0:45:56 > 0:45:57Before the war,
0:45:57 > 0:46:02the Lancastria had been a luxury transatlantic cruise liner.
0:46:02 > 0:46:06In 1940, she was requisitioned as a troopship.
0:46:08 > 0:46:12Jonathan is taking Amanda to where her grandfather and thousands
0:46:12 > 0:46:17of others were queueing up to embark on the 17th of June, 1940.
0:46:18 > 0:46:22You can see here British troops, when crossing the bridge,
0:46:22 > 0:46:23and the ships were waiting for them down here.
0:46:23 > 0:46:28The smaller ships waiting here to take them out to the Lancastria.
0:46:28 > 0:46:30- There's absolutely hundreds of them.- Hundreds and hundreds.
0:46:30 > 0:46:34Coming round and getting onto the Highlander, which was a destroyer,
0:46:34 > 0:46:37which was one of the ships which is here.
0:46:37 > 0:46:41And we have these photographs because a member of the crew of the
0:46:41 > 0:46:44Highlander was a very keen amateur photographer called Clements.
0:46:44 > 0:46:49He exchanged a pair of socks for a roll of film in St Nazaire,
0:46:49 > 0:46:51and he took these photographs,
0:46:51 > 0:46:54but we don't know how many got onto the Lancastria.
0:46:54 > 0:46:55What was the normal capacity?
0:46:55 > 0:46:58Well, the normal capacity would have been 2,500.
0:46:58 > 0:47:01The captain reckoned they could take 4,000.
0:47:01 > 0:47:04He was told, take as many as arrive, basically.
0:47:04 > 0:47:08The stewards counted them in with a little clicker, but they
0:47:08 > 0:47:12were overheard to say, "We stopped counting when it reached 6,000."
0:47:12 > 0:47:14And some people think it may have been 8,000-9,000.
0:47:14 > 0:47:18- Gosh! So it was absolutely rammed. - Absolutely rammed.
0:47:18 > 0:47:21Frank Holden was one of the thousands who were taken out
0:47:21 > 0:47:25to the Lancastria and crammed into the ship's holds and on deck.
0:47:26 > 0:47:29Finally, the captain decided the ship could take no more.
0:47:31 > 0:47:36The last load from the destroyer, Highlander, was turned away.
0:47:36 > 0:47:38The ship could have left earlier, but, first of all,
0:47:38 > 0:47:40the French had not wanted it to leave,
0:47:40 > 0:47:43and then the captain made excuses not to go, not to go.
0:47:43 > 0:47:46He wanted an escort. He was afraid of submarines.
0:47:46 > 0:47:48- Mm.- And so on. It was really a sitting duck.
0:47:52 > 0:47:58At 3:43pm, the ship's air raid siren began to wail.
0:47:58 > 0:48:03And then a German plane dived down onto the Lancastria,
0:48:03 > 0:48:07unleashed four bombs, three of which went straight into the holds.
0:48:07 > 0:48:10One of which, according to some accounts, went down the funnel.
0:48:10 > 0:48:14It blew up, and the whole ship turned into an inferno.
0:48:14 > 0:48:15Oh, my God!
0:48:22 > 0:48:24Many of those who lost their lives
0:48:24 > 0:48:27were trapped in the holds of the ship.
0:48:29 > 0:48:31- A lot of people were killed instantly.- Yes.- For instance,
0:48:31 > 0:48:34the RAF crew who were in, ground crew, who were in the holds,
0:48:34 > 0:48:38they were all blown up. There were fires all over the place.
0:48:38 > 0:48:41One man said, "If there was a hell, this was it."
0:48:41 > 0:48:42- This was it. - This was it.
0:48:46 > 0:48:49Those who made it onto the upturned hull,
0:48:49 > 0:48:53or struggled in the water, were easy targets for the German planes,
0:48:53 > 0:48:55which machine gunned survivors.
0:48:58 > 0:49:03Just 24 minutes after the first bomb hit, the Lancastria sank.
0:49:06 > 0:49:10The sinking of the Lancastria remains the single worst disaster
0:49:10 > 0:49:12in Britain's maritime history.
0:49:13 > 0:49:17More people lost their lives than on the Titanic and Lusitania
0:49:17 > 0:49:18put together.
0:49:18 > 0:49:22I just can't imagine what it was like for Frank,
0:49:22 > 0:49:24and all those thousands of people.
0:49:24 > 0:49:27I mean, it must have been absolutely terrifying.
0:49:30 > 0:49:3176 years later,
0:49:31 > 0:49:36there is only a small number of survivors still left alive.
0:49:38 > 0:49:39Along with the military,
0:49:39 > 0:49:45British families and civilians were also being evacuated.
0:49:45 > 0:49:49The youngest person aboard the Lancastria was Jacqueline Tanner,
0:49:49 > 0:49:51who was travelling with her mother and father.
0:49:51 > 0:49:53She was two years old in June 1940.
0:49:56 > 0:49:58- Hello, I'm Amanda. - Hello, Amanda. I'm Jacqueline.
0:49:58 > 0:50:00- Lovely to meet you. - And you.
0:50:00 > 0:50:03I'm going to take you out to the wreck site...
0:50:03 > 0:50:06- How exciting. - ..where the Lancastria went down.
0:50:20 > 0:50:23The ship's sonar reveals the first sign of the Lancastria,
0:50:23 > 0:50:26sitting upright on the seabed below them.
0:50:27 > 0:50:31As you can see on the screen, this is the bow of the wreck,
0:50:31 > 0:50:33and this is the rear.
0:50:33 > 0:50:35It's 20 metres deep.
0:50:36 > 0:50:39So is it lying on its bottom?
0:50:39 > 0:50:42Yes, it's about ten metres high.
0:50:42 > 0:50:44So is this the deck we're looking at?
0:50:44 > 0:50:48Yes, this is... This part is the first deck.
0:50:53 > 0:50:56A buoy marks the spot where the Lancastria sank.
0:50:59 > 0:51:02Jacqueline's mother and father managed to get into a lifeboat,
0:51:02 > 0:51:04but it capsized,
0:51:04 > 0:51:07throwing them and their two-year-old daughter into the water.
0:51:08 > 0:51:12Mother looked across at my father and said, "What do we do"?
0:51:12 > 0:51:15And he went, "Swim".
0:51:15 > 0:51:18And luckily, they were both very good swimmers.
0:51:18 > 0:51:21- Yes. - And they started swimming.
0:51:21 > 0:51:26- And what about you? - Well, I was being held, apparently,
0:51:26 > 0:51:28in my father's teeth.
0:51:28 > 0:51:30One of the other survivors wrote an account
0:51:30 > 0:51:32of how he rescued Jacqueline.
0:51:33 > 0:51:36"A lifeboat was quite near, and I swam towards it."
0:51:36 > 0:51:39"Suddenly, a woman's agonised cry rang out.
0:51:39 > 0:51:41"Baby here! Baby here."
0:51:41 > 0:51:43- Is this your mother? - Yes.
0:51:44 > 0:51:50"As an echo, I heard the small voice of a child repeating, 'Baby, baby'."
0:51:50 > 0:51:53- That's me. - Oh, Jacqueline, that's you.
0:51:53 > 0:51:55"I looked over to see a man and a woman, swimming along,
0:51:55 > 0:51:59"holding up, out of the sea, a tiny mite, a little girl.
0:51:59 > 0:52:02"And I realised it was the same woman who had nearly landed
0:52:02 > 0:52:05"on top of me when the lifeboat tipped up.
0:52:05 > 0:52:08"The sight of this man plodding along in grim silence,
0:52:08 > 0:52:11"and the mother who cried out only for the safety of her child
0:52:11 > 0:52:14"warmed my heart, and I struggled on beside them.
0:52:15 > 0:52:17"Suddenly, I found a piece of wood,
0:52:17 > 0:52:18"not a very large piece,
0:52:18 > 0:52:21"but it would do fine to put the baby on, I thought.
0:52:21 > 0:52:23"And, swimming over, we pushed it under the baby.
0:52:25 > 0:52:26"She looked quite comfortable,
0:52:26 > 0:52:30"and I now felt that I must get away from those cries of distress,
0:52:30 > 0:52:32"and I swam away."
0:52:32 > 0:52:34Do you know who that was?
0:52:34 > 0:52:36- No. - You never knew who that was?
0:52:36 > 0:52:37No, I didn't, no.
0:52:37 > 0:52:39He saved your life.
0:52:39 > 0:52:41He did. Well, he helped save my life.
0:52:41 > 0:52:47And Mother and Father then were three hours in the water,
0:52:47 > 0:52:53and then they were eventually picked up, and we were being transferred
0:52:53 > 0:52:56- to the Highlander, which had... - Aha!
0:52:56 > 0:53:00- The Highlander, I have a picture here...- You do?
0:53:00 > 0:53:04..because my grandfather, Frank, there he is.
0:53:06 > 0:53:08- So this is on the Highlander? - This is on the Highlander,
0:53:08 > 0:53:12- and he's covered in oil, like you must have been.- Mm.
0:53:12 > 0:53:16And he's wrapped in a blanket, other people are wrapped in a blanket,
0:53:16 > 0:53:18- And he's... This is the thing that...- Pouring tea!
0:53:18 > 0:53:21He's pouring tea! A good old British cup of tea.
0:53:21 > 0:53:23He must have been on the shame ship as you.
0:53:23 > 0:53:25He must have been. And he was a lucky one as well.
0:53:25 > 0:53:27He survived.
0:53:53 > 0:53:584,000 men, women and children are known to have lost their lives,
0:53:58 > 0:54:01but the figure is thought to be much higher, as there was no
0:54:01 > 0:54:06accurate count of the thousands crowded on board the Lancastria.
0:54:14 > 0:54:18I think you and my grandfather were extremely lucky to get out of there.
0:54:18 > 0:54:22- Oh, yes.- But the thing I don't really understand, Jacqueline,
0:54:22 > 0:54:26is that this is a bigger disaster than the Titanic,
0:54:26 > 0:54:28and yet I've never heard of it.
0:54:28 > 0:54:30At the time, when this happened, of course,
0:54:30 > 0:54:37it was too big a disaster to publish. We have here a book.
0:54:37 > 0:54:40There's a piece on there you might like to read.
0:54:40 > 0:54:43OK. So this is Winston Churchill's...
0:54:43 > 0:54:45- Winston Churchill's... - ..diary.
0:54:45 > 0:54:49"One frightful incident occurred on the 17th at St Nazaire.
0:54:49 > 0:54:53"The 20,000 tonne liner, the Lancastria,
0:54:53 > 0:54:57"with 5,000 men on board, was bombed and set on fire
0:54:57 > 0:55:00"just as she was about to leave. When this news came to me in the
0:55:00 > 0:55:05"quiet cabinet room during the afternoon, I forbade its publication..."
0:55:05 > 0:55:08Ah, here we go. "..saying, 'the newspapers have got quite enough
0:55:08 > 0:55:13" 'disaster for today, at least.' I had intended to release the news
0:55:13 > 0:55:17"a few days later, but events crowded upon us so black
0:55:17 > 0:55:21"and so quickly that I forgot to lift the ban."
0:55:21 > 0:55:25I can see that it was done for morale, for the people in Britain,
0:55:25 > 0:55:28but now it needs recognition.
0:55:28 > 0:55:30Yes, it did need recognition.
0:55:30 > 0:55:32- There he is. - And there he is.
0:55:32 > 0:55:37Isn't it amazing that you both survived a massive disaster, and...
0:55:37 > 0:55:38And he was not very old?
0:55:38 > 0:55:40He wasn't very old, you were tiny.
0:55:40 > 0:55:42I just like to think that he may have seen you,
0:55:42 > 0:55:44- because it must have been... - Well, he probably did.
0:55:44 > 0:55:46A little tot like you.
0:55:46 > 0:55:49It's a small world, in some ways.
0:55:49 > 0:55:53Isn't it? It's taken a long time for us to find out
0:55:53 > 0:55:55that we've got something in common.
0:56:05 > 0:56:08HMT Lancastria.
0:56:08 > 0:56:12Opposite this place lies the wreck of the troopship Lancastria.
0:56:14 > 0:56:20Learning about Frank's story has just been incredible for me.
0:56:21 > 0:56:24He was a survivor. He was one of the lucky ones
0:56:24 > 0:56:30from this disaster, and I hope that this story
0:56:30 > 0:56:36will keep the memory alive of those 4,000 who didn't make it back home.
0:56:37 > 0:56:39It's odd that I never got to meet him,
0:56:39 > 0:56:42because that goes against what I feel about him now,
0:56:42 > 0:56:43what I've learned about him.
0:56:46 > 0:56:49I think the sad irony is that,
0:56:49 > 0:56:53you know, my grandfather took his own life in his 70s.
0:56:53 > 0:56:55He looked after so many mentally ill people,
0:56:55 > 0:57:01endured so much during the war, but wasn't able to save himself.
0:57:03 > 0:57:06Maybe all the trauma he witnessed,
0:57:06 > 0:57:11and everybody else's problems were too much for him to bear.