0:00:04 > 0:00:07Greg Davies is a giant of British comedy.
0:00:08 > 0:00:12He made his name playing the world-weary teacher Mr Gilbert
0:00:12 > 0:00:14in the hit TV series The Inbetweeners.
0:00:14 > 0:00:17If there's one thing no-one likes, it's a grass.
0:00:17 > 0:00:20So I will ask you how this happened and you will reply, "I tripped."
0:00:20 > 0:00:24But, Sir, if no-one reported crimes, the justice system would collapse!
0:00:24 > 0:00:27I'll ask you again. How did this happen?
0:00:28 > 0:00:29I tripped.
0:00:29 > 0:00:31- HE TUTS - Clumsy.
0:00:31 > 0:00:34'Are you ready for your closing act of the first half, Comedy Store?'
0:00:34 > 0:00:36APPLAUSE
0:00:36 > 0:00:39But his first love is stand-up.
0:00:39 > 0:00:42'..and he's a very, very funny man. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome...'
0:00:42 > 0:00:44- We'll see about that! - '..to the Comedy Store, London,
0:00:44 > 0:00:47'Mr Greg Davies!'
0:00:47 > 0:00:50APPLAUSE
0:00:50 > 0:00:53My dad died a couple of years ago and I am so my father's son.
0:00:53 > 0:00:56He is to this day - obviously I'm biased -
0:00:56 > 0:00:58the funniest person I've ever met.
0:00:58 > 0:01:00This is the noise she made...
0:01:00 > 0:01:02HE SCREAMS
0:01:02 > 0:01:05I used to watch him hold court at their parties when I was a kid.
0:01:05 > 0:01:06And I remember thinking,
0:01:06 > 0:01:09"Yeah, I'd like people to listen to me tell stories."
0:01:09 > 0:01:12So it all comes from him.
0:01:12 > 0:01:16- Then, I got on with my day. - LAUGHTER
0:01:16 > 0:01:20I think the Welsh roots were incredibly important to my dad.
0:01:20 > 0:01:22He told me that's why I had to be born in Wales,
0:01:22 > 0:01:26just to make absolutely certain that when my rugby career took off,
0:01:26 > 0:01:28I would be a Welsh international.
0:01:28 > 0:01:32And I'm very sorry that he got a fat comedian instead.
0:01:32 > 0:01:36- Houston, we have a problem. - LAUGHTER
0:01:36 > 0:01:39My dad did suggest there was a Davies secret,
0:01:39 > 0:01:42so if there is a secret - great!
0:01:42 > 0:01:44I would love it.
0:01:44 > 0:01:46Ladies and gentlemen, you were really lovely,
0:01:46 > 0:01:48thank you so much.
0:01:48 > 0:01:51Enjoy the rest of the show. Bye.
0:02:24 > 0:02:29I am embarrassed about my knowledge of my father's side of the family.
0:02:32 > 0:02:35I'm heading back to my mum's house in Shropshire
0:02:35 > 0:02:39and I'm hoping that she can help me piece together some basics, really,
0:02:39 > 0:02:42about my Welsh grandparents and great-grandparents.
0:02:49 > 0:02:50Ah.
0:02:52 > 0:02:54- Hello!- Hello.
0:02:54 > 0:02:58- Are you all right?- Yes, thank you. - Good.- You got here.- I got here.
0:03:00 > 0:03:03What I've discovered so far is that I know hardly anything
0:03:03 > 0:03:04about my family.
0:03:04 > 0:03:07- So I'll be intrigued to see if you know more.- Yeah.
0:03:07 > 0:03:11On which side of the family would you like to know more about?
0:03:11 > 0:03:13- Well, on Dad's side, I think.- Yeah.
0:03:13 > 0:03:15- Well, I've hunted a few photos and things out...- Have you?
0:03:15 > 0:03:16..which might help.
0:03:17 > 0:03:22- Ready?- OK.- What have you dug out then?- Well, this one.
0:03:22 > 0:03:24Do you think I look like Dad in this picture?
0:03:24 > 0:03:25Not so much in that one.
0:03:25 > 0:03:27Not in the one where I'm pulling his ears out.
0:03:27 > 0:03:30This one, definitely. Look at your grins, look.
0:03:30 > 0:03:33What I like about this is I remember I was deliberately
0:03:33 > 0:03:35trying to make him laugh.
0:03:35 > 0:03:37- And I did.- You succeeded. - And then I'm pleased.
0:03:37 > 0:03:39You can see in my face I'm desperately pleased
0:03:39 > 0:03:42- that I got him laughing. - Got one over on him.
0:03:42 > 0:03:44I've got this excellent one.
0:03:44 > 0:03:47HE LAUGHS
0:03:47 > 0:03:49- Your grandmother.- That's me and Nain, as I shall call her.
0:03:49 > 0:03:53Everyone in North Wales calls granny nain, don't they?
0:03:53 > 0:03:57- Yeah, and grandfather taid. - Yes. That's it, nain and taid.- Yeah.
0:03:58 > 0:04:00Do you know, I remember doing that.
0:04:00 > 0:04:02What a prat I was.
0:04:02 > 0:04:04I was in her hat and coat.
0:04:04 > 0:04:08The thing that strikes me about it is there just no doubt
0:04:08 > 0:04:10that I am her grandson. Facially.
0:04:10 > 0:04:13- No, none at all. - I don't look unlike her at all.
0:04:13 > 0:04:15- Put an old lady's hat on... - With that hat on.
0:04:15 > 0:04:18- ..me as a 12-year-old, and I am an old lady.- You are, yes.
0:04:18 > 0:04:20Things haven't changed!
0:04:20 > 0:04:24- She was very funny.- She was great. - She was great.
0:04:24 > 0:04:26Is there a picture of Nain's mum?
0:04:26 > 0:04:29- Just this one.- So this is Elizabeth?
0:04:29 > 0:04:32- Yes. Your great-grandmother.- Blimey.
0:04:32 > 0:04:34I remember visiting her in that room.
0:04:35 > 0:04:371972. I was four.
0:04:37 > 0:04:40That'll be one of my earliest memories, I think.
0:04:40 > 0:04:44So Nain, Edith, was the oldest of Elizabeth's children, is that right?
0:04:44 > 0:04:46Of seven. Yes.
0:04:46 > 0:04:49The thing I remember that Dad always alluded to was that
0:04:49 > 0:04:53her children didn't all necessarily look very alike.
0:04:53 > 0:04:56No, because they didn't have the same fathers.
0:04:56 > 0:04:58Well, that was the rumour.
0:04:58 > 0:05:00We don't know who her father really is.
0:05:00 > 0:05:02- We don't know who Nain's father is? - No.
0:05:02 > 0:05:04What was written on her birth certificate?
0:05:04 > 0:05:06- I can show you that.- Right.
0:05:08 > 0:05:13- Right. Caernarfon. - It tells you which area, Porthmadog.
0:05:13 > 0:05:19June, 1904, Edith was her name, girl.
0:05:19 > 0:05:22And Elizabeth, the mother is listed as Elizabeth Thomas, obviously,
0:05:22 > 0:05:25who was a domestic servant, which I didn't know.
0:05:25 > 0:05:28- And the father is just left blank. - Yeah.
0:05:28 > 0:05:31I'm just amazed that I never thought to question
0:05:31 > 0:05:33who Dad's grandfather was.
0:05:33 > 0:05:38So we know that Nain definitely existed
0:05:38 > 0:05:40- before Elizabeth got married.- Yes.
0:05:40 > 0:05:44- And Elizabeth married who? - David Jones.- David Jones.- Yes.
0:05:44 > 0:05:47- But David Jones definitely wasn't Nain's father?- Definitely not.
0:05:47 > 0:05:50She was born before Elizabeth got married.
0:05:51 > 0:05:54The only other person I can think of that would hopefully fill in a gap
0:05:54 > 0:05:59- would be Viona. Her mother and Edie were sisters.- Right.
0:06:01 > 0:06:04Greg's great-grandmother, Elizabeth Thomas,
0:06:04 > 0:06:06had seven children.
0:06:06 > 0:06:10The eldest of whom were Edith, Greg's grandmother,
0:06:10 > 0:06:12and her sister Rebecca.
0:06:12 > 0:06:17Edith and Rebecca's father was not the man Elizabeth married,
0:06:17 > 0:06:19David Jones.
0:06:19 > 0:06:22The identity of their father, Greg's great-grandfather,
0:06:22 > 0:06:24is a mystery.
0:06:32 > 0:06:34Greg is on his way to Mold in Wales
0:06:34 > 0:06:38to visit his first cousin once removed, Viona.
0:06:40 > 0:06:41Ah, now.
0:06:42 > 0:06:48I think we're about to enter the land of my father, Wales.
0:06:48 > 0:06:49Yes, we are.
0:06:50 > 0:06:52We are officially,
0:06:52 > 0:06:54we are officially Welsh now.
0:06:56 > 0:06:58It feels different.
0:07:06 > 0:07:10Greg's hoping that Viona may know more about their family history.
0:07:11 > 0:07:14- Hello, Viona. - Hello, Greg, how are you?
0:07:14 > 0:07:17- I'm very well, how are you? - Very well.- Nice to see you.
0:07:17 > 0:07:18Nice to see you!
0:07:20 > 0:07:23So, yesterday Mum showed me
0:07:23 > 0:07:26my grandmother Edie's birth certificate.
0:07:26 > 0:07:30And looking along the official description, when it says "father",
0:07:30 > 0:07:33- it's just left blank.- Right.
0:07:33 > 0:07:35Well, it's the same on my mother's.
0:07:35 > 0:07:39- I've got my mother's here.- Ah! - This is Rebecca, my mother.
0:07:39 > 0:07:42You can see when she was born, 1907.
0:07:42 > 0:07:46- And that's blank as well. - Blank as well, yeah.
0:07:46 > 0:07:50In those days, that would have been pretty scandalous, wouldn't it,
0:07:50 > 0:07:52for there to be no father, no registered father?
0:07:52 > 0:07:55- Oh, yes, yeah.- Yeah. - It would have been, yeah.
0:07:55 > 0:08:00So you would wonder how, with two daughters out of wedlock,
0:08:00 > 0:08:02that Elizabeth would support herself, really.
0:08:02 > 0:08:05She was very lucky, really, that her mother brought
0:08:05 > 0:08:07Auntie Edie and my mother up.
0:08:07 > 0:08:11They were brought up in Porthmadog in Snowdon Street, I think it was,
0:08:11 > 0:08:13cos otherwise she would have ended up
0:08:13 > 0:08:15on the street or in the workhouse.
0:08:15 > 0:08:18So is that the picture of my great-grandmother, Elizabeth?
0:08:18 > 0:08:20- That's it.- That's amazing.
0:08:20 > 0:08:22Very stern-looking woman, wasn't she?
0:08:22 > 0:08:24She was a very stern looking lady.
0:08:24 > 0:08:27If it was from a film, you'd say, "She looks a bit far-fetched.
0:08:27 > 0:08:28"We should tone her down a bit!"
0:08:30 > 0:08:32Dad told me he went round and took her out once
0:08:32 > 0:08:33when she was having a good day,
0:08:33 > 0:08:35and he said, "Where do you want to go?"
0:08:35 > 0:08:37And she said, "The pub," straightaway.
0:08:37 > 0:08:39- She knew exactly what pub she wanted to go to.- Yes.
0:08:39 > 0:08:41Well, she never went out, afterwards.
0:08:41 > 0:08:43- They used to bring her a drink to the house.- Oh, did they?
0:08:43 > 0:08:45And she used to hide it in the bed.
0:08:45 > 0:08:47- She liked a drink, did she? - Hide it in the bed!
0:08:47 > 0:08:50THEY LAUGH
0:08:50 > 0:08:55So have you any clues as to who the father of Rebecca and my grandmother
0:08:55 > 0:08:59- might have been?- Well, this is Edie's marriage certificate.- Ah!
0:08:59 > 0:09:02So if I follow her line, Edith Thomas.
0:09:02 > 0:09:06Father's name, David Thomas, deceased. Butcher.
0:09:07 > 0:09:11Yes, that's very strange, isn't it?
0:09:11 > 0:09:14But why would he be named on a marriage certificate,
0:09:14 > 0:09:16all those years later,
0:09:16 > 0:09:19and not on her birth certificate and not on your mum's?
0:09:19 > 0:09:22- I think she made it up. - You think this is made up?
0:09:22 > 0:09:26- I think it is.- So David Thomas, the deceased butcher...
0:09:27 > 0:09:29..could be a real man,
0:09:29 > 0:09:32or could be a flight of fancy from my grandmother!
0:09:32 > 0:09:36THEY LAUGH
0:09:36 > 0:09:38You know what it's like when you tell a fib?
0:09:38 > 0:09:41- It goes on.- You start to believe it after a while.- Well, you do.
0:09:41 > 0:09:43- You do, yes. You do.- Not that I've told many, of course, Viona!
0:09:43 > 0:09:46- No!- Going to track down the mystery butcher.
0:09:50 > 0:09:52It shouldn't be that hard,
0:09:52 > 0:09:55- there wouldn't be so many butchers in Porthmadog.- No.
0:09:55 > 0:09:57It's just tracking down imaginary butchers,
0:09:57 > 0:10:00- that's the difficult task, isn't it? - Well, yes!
0:10:01 > 0:10:03That's it. Oh.
0:10:06 > 0:10:09Greg has come to Caernarfon in North Wales,
0:10:09 > 0:10:11where the local records for Porthmadog,
0:10:11 > 0:10:15the town of his grandmother Edith's birth, are kept.
0:10:16 > 0:10:19He's looking for any clues which might help him discover
0:10:19 > 0:10:24the identity of Edith's father, his great-grandfather.
0:10:24 > 0:10:28- Annwen?- Hi.- Hello! Nice to meet you.- You too.
0:10:28 > 0:10:32- I'm on the trail, I think, of my great-granddad...- Right.
0:10:32 > 0:10:35..who had some children with Elizabeth Thomas,
0:10:35 > 0:10:37- my great-grandmother.- OK.
0:10:37 > 0:10:39I've been having a look through our newspapers
0:10:39 > 0:10:41and I think I've found a little snippet
0:10:41 > 0:10:43that could be of use to you.
0:10:43 > 0:10:45This is the copy of the Herald Cymraeg,
0:10:45 > 0:10:48which is the local Welsh-language newspaper for 1907.
0:10:48 > 0:10:50And they're giant. That's the first thing I noticed.
0:10:50 > 0:10:52They are giant. Yes!
0:10:52 > 0:10:54So, this is an entry for May 14th.
0:10:54 > 0:10:58You might be able to pick out a couple of words that are familiar.
0:10:58 > 0:11:00Well, not really. My Welsh isn't...
0:11:00 > 0:11:03No, but you might be able to spot Porthmadog,
0:11:03 > 0:11:05which is the area your great-grandmother lived.
0:11:05 > 0:11:09Ah! Elizabeth Thomas, yeah.
0:11:09 > 0:11:11And Snowdon Street, which is where she lived.
0:11:11 > 0:11:12- That's right.- Right.
0:11:12 > 0:11:14Unfortunately, I don't understand what it says.
0:11:14 > 0:11:17I have got a translation for you, which...
0:11:17 > 0:11:18- You can take that.- Brilliant.
0:11:20 > 0:11:22"On the request of Mr J Jones Morris,
0:11:22 > 0:11:27"William Owen of New Street was ordered to pay maintenance
0:11:27 > 0:11:31"for the children of Elizabeth Thomas, Snowdon Street."
0:11:34 > 0:11:35So...
0:11:35 > 0:11:38William Owen is the name of my great-grandfather.
0:11:38 > 0:11:40It would seem so, yes.
0:11:40 > 0:11:44And that's a totally new name in this.
0:11:44 > 0:11:47So the butcher was made up - and that won't mean anything to you.
0:11:47 > 0:11:49SHE CHUCKLES
0:11:49 > 0:11:52That would have been a local scandal, do you think?
0:11:52 > 0:11:56- Um, yes, probably. Um... - They weren't married.
0:11:56 > 0:11:57No, they weren't, no.
0:11:57 > 0:11:59And they've had two children together,
0:11:59 > 0:12:02so it would have been known about in the local area.
0:12:04 > 0:12:06At the beginning of the 20th century,
0:12:06 > 0:12:09illegitimacy cases were not uncommon,
0:12:09 > 0:12:13but the court system did little to reduce the shame and stigma
0:12:13 > 0:12:15associated with being a single mother.
0:12:17 > 0:12:20Women seeking child maintenance, like Elizabeth,
0:12:20 > 0:12:22faced public humiliation,
0:12:22 > 0:12:26as they were expected to testify against the father in court.
0:12:29 > 0:12:31I think we can take this a little bit further,
0:12:31 > 0:12:34and have a look to see if we can find mention of that case
0:12:34 > 0:12:37- coming up in the courthouse. - Wonderful.
0:12:37 > 0:12:39- So, luckily for you, this is in English.- Yes!
0:12:39 > 0:12:41So you should be able to find the entry yourself,
0:12:41 > 0:12:44- so I'll leave you to it. - Well, thank you, Annwen.
0:12:44 > 0:12:45Thank you very much.
0:12:47 > 0:12:50"Elizabeth Thomas versus William Owen."
0:12:50 > 0:12:51There it is.
0:12:51 > 0:12:53This is June, now.
0:12:53 > 0:12:55So the case is ongoing.
0:12:55 > 0:12:58Do you know, I think that says "bastards".
0:12:59 > 0:13:01It can't, can it?
0:13:02 > 0:13:05It's actually, "bastardy", with a Y.
0:13:05 > 0:13:09So they've gone back to court because presumably -
0:13:09 > 0:13:11"debt brought up" - yeah, he hasn't paid.
0:13:11 > 0:13:14Yeah, he's a very irresponsible father.
0:13:15 > 0:13:18Is what we've learned, I think.
0:13:18 > 0:13:20Already I am softening towards Elizabeth
0:13:20 > 0:13:22and what she's had to deal with.
0:13:22 > 0:13:28The amount due was now £1-12-6.
0:13:28 > 0:13:29And there's an order from the court,
0:13:29 > 0:13:33"Arrears to be paid by instalments of five shillings.
0:13:33 > 0:13:36"One month for first payment...
0:13:36 > 0:13:39"or 14 days."
0:13:39 > 0:13:42"Or?" What does that mean?
0:13:42 > 0:13:44"One month or 14 days"?
0:13:44 > 0:13:47Probably need Annwen to help me with.
0:13:47 > 0:13:48Hello.
0:13:49 > 0:13:51This is what I don't understand.
0:13:51 > 0:13:55Right, I assumed that the 14 days would refer to a prison sentence,
0:13:55 > 0:13:58for not paying the amount.
0:13:58 > 0:14:00Oh, so he would go to prison if he didn't pay.
0:14:00 > 0:14:03- If he didn't pay the amount. - Within a month.- Within the month.
0:14:03 > 0:14:04- Yes.- Of course, it's prison.
0:14:04 > 0:14:07Well, they were serious then.
0:14:07 > 0:14:10I don't understand why he hasn't paid her.
0:14:10 > 0:14:14He admits no effects, so he doesn't have the money to pay.
0:14:14 > 0:14:18So he hasn't... Right. So it's not he won't pay, he can't pay.
0:14:18 > 0:14:22- It's a case of he can't pay. - Because he hasn't got any money.
0:14:26 > 0:14:29To follow the story of his great-grandfather William,
0:14:29 > 0:14:31Greg has come along the Welsh coast to Porthmadog.
0:14:37 > 0:14:40It's really quite peculiar having known my grandmother
0:14:40 > 0:14:44as well as I knew her, that years after her death
0:14:44 > 0:14:47I suddenly uncover the name of her dad.
0:14:49 > 0:14:52William Owen is never mentioned by our family,
0:14:52 > 0:14:56and the reason he was never mentioned by our family
0:14:56 > 0:14:59is because no-one, apart from Elizabeth,
0:14:59 > 0:15:02my great-grandmother, I don't think knew who he was.
0:15:02 > 0:15:05So I would like to know more about him.
0:15:07 > 0:15:11Greg is meeting a local researcher, Eilir Daniels.
0:15:11 > 0:15:14- Hello.- Hello.- Nice to meet you. - And you.
0:15:15 > 0:15:18Can you tell me something more about my great-grandfather?
0:15:18 > 0:15:20- Yes. William Owen?- Yes.
0:15:20 > 0:15:25Luckily for us, he did get mentioned a few times in the local newspapers.
0:15:25 > 0:15:29- Oh, was that unluckily for him though?- Well, we shall see.
0:15:29 > 0:15:31The first mention is in 1901.
0:15:31 > 0:15:34So this is before my grandmother was born.
0:15:34 > 0:15:38Yes. Yes. A couple of years before.
0:15:38 > 0:15:40- Interesting.- Now then...
0:15:40 > 0:15:44- There you see his name. - Hang on a minute.
0:15:44 > 0:15:46Well, I mean, straightaway,
0:15:46 > 0:15:48- that's interesting because he was a butcher.- Yes.
0:15:48 > 0:15:50HE GASPS
0:15:50 > 0:15:52And I've written...
0:15:52 > 0:15:56I'd written the idea of a butcher off.
0:15:56 > 0:16:00The fact that that half-truth got passed down is so fascinating.
0:16:00 > 0:16:04So, "William Owen, butcher, from Bank Place,
0:16:04 > 0:16:08"was charged with having been drunk in charge of a horse and cart,
0:16:08 > 0:16:10"on the night of February 12th.
0:16:10 > 0:16:16"Catherine Caroll and Letitia Evans of Smith Street stated they saw
0:16:16 > 0:16:20"the defendant leading a horse attached to a trap
0:16:20 > 0:16:21"about eight in the evening.
0:16:21 > 0:16:24"Mrs Caroll said she could not say he was drunk,
0:16:24 > 0:16:29"neither could she say he was sober, but he was more drunk than sober."
0:16:29 > 0:16:33That's a great quote. "More drunk than sober."
0:16:33 > 0:16:37- HE LAUGHS - Oh, William!
0:16:37 > 0:16:41Well, he was proved to have been drunk in charge of a horse.
0:16:41 > 0:16:42Which, I'm laughing at,
0:16:42 > 0:16:45but I suppose was fairly serious business in 1901.
0:16:45 > 0:16:49Yes, it wouldn't have been regarded lightly at all.
0:16:49 > 0:16:51- It's drink-driving really, isn't it? - Yes.
0:16:51 > 0:16:55The next article relates
0:16:55 > 0:16:58to an incident that took place
0:16:58 > 0:17:01up the road, on Snowdon.
0:17:02 > 0:17:07- What date is this, sorry?- 1906.- '06. - So this is moving on a little bit.
0:17:07 > 0:17:11- Now, my grandmother is now two. - Yes.- "Accident.
0:17:11 > 0:17:16"A party of Porthmadogites ascended Snowdon on Saturday night.
0:17:16 > 0:17:22"Whilst ascending on Sunday morning, after sunrise, William Owen,
0:17:22 > 0:17:24"in trying to jump over some big stones,
0:17:24 > 0:17:27"fell and seriously injured his leg."
0:17:27 > 0:17:32I don't want to sort of start casting aspersions, but was he...
0:17:32 > 0:17:35Climbing Snowdon on a Saturday night sort of suggests to me that
0:17:35 > 0:17:37- maybe drink was involved.- Yeah.
0:17:37 > 0:17:39He was probably trying to impress people.
0:17:39 > 0:17:43That's my gut instinct, but that might reflect very badly on me,
0:17:43 > 0:17:47because I spent a lot of time as a young man showing off.
0:17:47 > 0:17:50The first thing that came into my head was he was a bit of a show-off.
0:17:50 > 0:17:52So interesting.
0:17:52 > 0:17:55We managed to get hold of his birth certificate.
0:17:55 > 0:18:00- You can read that. - So he was born in 1877.
0:18:00 > 0:18:02- Yeah.- His father is Evan Owen. - Mm-hm. Yeah.
0:18:02 > 0:18:08And his mother is Elizabeth Owen, formally Jones.
0:18:09 > 0:18:13- Occupation of father. He was a farmer.- Yeah.- At Tremadog.
0:18:13 > 0:18:15- That's right. - Where's Tremadog then?
0:18:15 > 0:18:18It's just on the outskirts of Porthmadog.
0:18:18 > 0:18:22And here we find William himself, in 1881.
0:18:22 > 0:18:25So this is the first census he would have been on.
0:18:25 > 0:18:28- Four years after his birth. - Yeah.- Right. William Owen.
0:18:28 > 0:18:30There. There he is.
0:18:30 > 0:18:33He lived in Bank Place, in Porthmadog.
0:18:33 > 0:18:37Relation to the head of the family, grandson.
0:18:37 > 0:18:38- Are these the grandparents?- Yeah.
0:18:38 > 0:18:41Robert Jones, Elizabeth Jones.
0:18:41 > 0:18:44- So he's living with his grandparents.- Yes.
0:18:44 > 0:18:47- Not with his parents. - The Jones grandparents, yes.
0:18:47 > 0:18:50Right. What did they do? Did they work?
0:18:50 > 0:18:54- Oh, so the grandfather is a butcher. - Yes.
0:18:54 > 0:18:56I presume he went into the family business then.
0:18:56 > 0:18:59So why is he living with Elizabeth's parents
0:18:59 > 0:19:02and not with Elizabeth and Evan?
0:19:02 > 0:19:04That's the big question.
0:19:05 > 0:19:08- What's the big answer? - You need to go to Tremadog next.
0:19:08 > 0:19:13- Where William was born. - He was registered in Tremadog.
0:19:13 > 0:19:16- I knew I was born to be a detective. - SHE LAUGHS
0:19:16 > 0:19:19- I mean, admittedly, you've done all the hard work.- Yeah.
0:19:22 > 0:19:26Having uncovered the identity of his great-grandfather, William Owen,
0:19:26 > 0:19:30Greg has also found out that his great-great-grandparents
0:19:30 > 0:19:32were Evan and Elizabeth Owen.
0:19:34 > 0:19:38Greg now wants to investigate why four-year-old William
0:19:38 > 0:19:41was not living with his parents, Evan and Elizabeth,
0:19:41 > 0:19:45but with his maternal grandparents, Robert and Elizabeth Jones.
0:19:49 > 0:19:52Greg has come to Tremadog on the edge of Snowdonia
0:19:52 > 0:19:54to meet social historian Russell Davies.
0:19:59 > 0:20:04This is the wedding certificate of Evan Owen and Elizabeth Jones.
0:20:04 > 0:20:08So they were married in 1875
0:20:08 > 0:20:12and William was born, I think, 1877.
0:20:12 > 0:20:14All right. So they were married two years before William,
0:20:14 > 0:20:16so that's all above board.
0:20:16 > 0:20:19So when they got married, my great-great-grandfather
0:20:19 > 0:20:23was living in - I am scared of my pronunciation -
0:20:23 > 0:20:28- Cwm Mawr.- That's good.- Is it? - Cwm Mawr.- Cwm Mawr.- Yeah.
0:20:28 > 0:20:30Farmers at Cwm Mawr.
0:20:30 > 0:20:33If we look on to the next document.
0:20:33 > 0:20:36- This is a death certificate. - A death certificate, yes.- Right.
0:20:36 > 0:20:37For Elizabeth.
0:20:39 > 0:20:43- HE GASPS - ..she died 1877.- Yeah.
0:20:43 > 0:20:46The year that William was born.
0:20:48 > 0:20:51She was only 19 years of age.
0:20:51 > 0:20:52She died in...
0:20:52 > 0:20:54So she died in childbirth.
0:20:55 > 0:20:57Giving birth to William.
0:20:57 > 0:21:00HE SIGHS
0:21:00 > 0:21:04Nine days after childbirth, she passed away.
0:21:06 > 0:21:08Wow.
0:21:08 > 0:21:11So, of course, that's why William is not living with his parents,
0:21:11 > 0:21:13it's because his mother died.
0:21:13 > 0:21:15He lives with the grandparents.
0:21:15 > 0:21:17How common would that be?
0:21:17 > 0:21:21It would be pretty common, sadly.
0:21:21 > 0:21:22You're working the land,
0:21:22 > 0:21:24unforgiving the circumstances,
0:21:24 > 0:21:26that you can't look after a child.
0:21:26 > 0:21:29- Of course not, right. - And run a farm.
0:21:29 > 0:21:34So, what became of Evan and his relationship with William?
0:21:34 > 0:21:37- Perhaps, if you take a look at this. - It's a marriage certificate.
0:21:37 > 0:21:40Ah.
0:21:40 > 0:21:42So he remarried.
0:21:42 > 0:21:44Martha Parry.
0:21:46 > 0:21:491879, so only two years later.
0:21:49 > 0:21:53Because Evan is only 24 years of age.
0:21:53 > 0:21:55Well, I'm glad he got remarried.
0:21:56 > 0:21:59That's, that's a...
0:21:59 > 0:22:03There's a happiness there in a sea of woe.
0:22:03 > 0:22:07The final document might throw a little light on Evan himself.
0:22:07 > 0:22:11This is a clip from the North Wales Observer and Express.
0:22:11 > 0:22:14- Yes.- In November, 1902.
0:22:14 > 0:22:19"Mr Evan Owen has been elected a deacon
0:22:19 > 0:22:22"at the Peniel Chapel.
0:22:22 > 0:22:24"He held a similar post at...
0:22:24 > 0:22:28- Cwmystradllyn. - "..Cwmystradllyn Chapel."
0:22:28 > 0:22:32- He's found God and he's rising through the ranks.- Yeah.- Yeah.
0:22:40 > 0:22:43Greg now wants to go one generation further back,
0:22:43 > 0:22:50to discover more about his great-great-grandfather Evan's life.
0:22:50 > 0:22:52I'm going to try and find some more clues about
0:22:52 > 0:22:55what had happened to Evan over those years,
0:22:55 > 0:22:57since losing his wife and try and find out
0:22:57 > 0:23:01if there's any connection at all between him and his son William,
0:23:01 > 0:23:02my great-grandfather.
0:23:08 > 0:23:11The last time I came on this little railway,
0:23:11 > 0:23:13which is stunningly beautiful,
0:23:13 > 0:23:16I was with my mum and dad,
0:23:16 > 0:23:20and over 30 years later, it's really exciting to be back on it.
0:23:20 > 0:23:22And it's really exciting
0:23:22 > 0:23:25to be delving into my dad's past in this way.
0:23:25 > 0:23:28I can't tell you how much he would have loved this.
0:23:28 > 0:23:32I can't tell you how much he would have loved to have been part of it,
0:23:32 > 0:23:36and how sad I am that he isn't.
0:23:52 > 0:23:53Nantmor!
0:23:58 > 0:24:01Greg has come to find the Peniel Chapel
0:24:01 > 0:24:06where his great-great-grandfather Evan was elected deacon in 1902.
0:24:09 > 0:24:10- Hello.- Hi.
0:24:10 > 0:24:12I'm really looking for evidence
0:24:12 > 0:24:14to see what role religion played in his life,
0:24:14 > 0:24:17cos it was a big part of my immediate family's life.
0:24:17 > 0:24:19Certainly my grandmother was also a deacon,
0:24:19 > 0:24:21which is what Evan was at this chapel,
0:24:21 > 0:24:27and my dad described a lot of chapel activity
0:24:27 > 0:24:29when they were kids.
0:24:29 > 0:24:33Well, there it is. Peniel Chapel.
0:24:37 > 0:24:38It's very strange.
0:24:38 > 0:24:40It's very strange to find it.
0:24:46 > 0:24:50CHOIR SING "CWM RHONDDA"
0:25:00 > 0:25:03SINGING CONTINUES
0:25:09 > 0:25:12SINGING CONTINUES
0:25:12 > 0:25:16Watching the service, imagining a blood relative
0:25:16 > 0:25:18who I didn't know existed until three days ago,
0:25:18 > 0:25:23being part of this very building, it's most peculiar.
0:25:23 > 0:25:27SINGING CONTINUES
0:25:37 > 0:25:39HE SPEAKS IN WELSH
0:25:39 > 0:25:42It's lovely to see a ritual that was a big part of my dad's life,
0:25:42 > 0:25:45and my grandmother's, and now I'm learning
0:25:45 > 0:25:48of my great-great-grandfather's.
0:25:48 > 0:25:50It's been a pretty overwhelming day.
0:25:50 > 0:25:53It's amazing. And very exciting.
0:25:55 > 0:25:57And quite moving.
0:26:03 > 0:26:06To learn more about Evan's life,
0:26:06 > 0:26:09Greg is meeting historian Dr Eryn White.
0:26:09 > 0:26:12What I'm trying to find out is a little more
0:26:12 > 0:26:17about my great-great-grandfather Evan and anything that might explain
0:26:17 > 0:26:19his relationship with his son.
0:26:19 > 0:26:24- We've got some information from the 1891 census.- Ah.
0:26:24 > 0:26:28So this is when Evan was living in Tal-y-llyn,
0:26:28 > 0:26:30- before he moved to this area.- Right.
0:26:30 > 0:26:34So you see he's listed here with his family.
0:26:34 > 0:26:36Oh, with his new wife, Martha.
0:26:36 > 0:26:39Oh, so he had more children. Three daughters.
0:26:39 > 0:26:45- So he has a whole second family of half-sisters to William.- Yeah.
0:26:45 > 0:26:48And they had two servants. So the farm was going well.
0:26:48 > 0:26:49He was doing all right, wasn't he?
0:26:49 > 0:26:51He WAS doing all right.
0:26:51 > 0:26:53So it's interesting that, of course, you know,
0:26:53 > 0:26:56the elder son is not living with him at this point.
0:26:56 > 0:26:58No connection with William,
0:26:58 > 0:27:00he's just moved on and had another family.
0:27:02 > 0:27:04That's interesting, isn't it?
0:27:05 > 0:27:09Right. This whole process, I'm very quick to make judgments.
0:27:09 > 0:27:12This is what's so difficult to get to the heart of,
0:27:12 > 0:27:14because we've got the historical documents,
0:27:14 > 0:27:16but it's so hard to get the human story behind these,
0:27:16 > 0:27:19so it's very difficult to know if they had any contact whatsoever.
0:27:19 > 0:27:22I think it's not unfair to say that father and son
0:27:22 > 0:27:27are on very different paths, from a certain point onwards.
0:27:27 > 0:27:30William liked to have a drink
0:27:30 > 0:27:32and he had two illegitimate children.
0:27:32 > 0:27:35The fact is they were actually geographically very close,
0:27:35 > 0:27:39Porthmadog isn't that far away from Nantmor here,
0:27:39 > 0:27:41but socially and culturally,
0:27:41 > 0:27:45- they seem to have been living very separate lives.- Yeah.
0:27:45 > 0:27:47Somebody like Evan, of course, who was elected a deacon
0:27:47 > 0:27:50with the Calvinistic Methodists would probably be expected
0:27:50 > 0:27:52to sign the pledge to be teetotal.
0:27:52 > 0:27:55So we know for a fact that he would have disapproved of alcohol.
0:27:55 > 0:27:58We know for a fact that he would have disapproved of alcohol.
0:27:58 > 0:28:01- And actively disapproved of alcohol. - Yes, actively disapproved.
0:28:03 > 0:28:05During the 19th century,
0:28:05 > 0:28:08a rise in heavy drinking sparked mounting concern.
0:28:11 > 0:28:15Local temperance groups preached the evils of the demon drink
0:28:15 > 0:28:18and encouraged members to sign pledge cards,
0:28:18 > 0:28:20committing them to lives of sobriety.
0:28:22 > 0:28:26I can show you the banner...
0:28:26 > 0:28:27that...
0:28:29 > 0:28:33- ..we have from 1836.- Right. - From Beddgelert, this very area.
0:28:33 > 0:28:35- And this is anti-alcohol? - This is anti-alcohol.
0:28:35 > 0:28:37This is a temperance society banner,
0:28:37 > 0:28:41and it shows you the sort of contrast.
0:28:41 > 0:28:46So you have this devout Victorian patriarch, who frowns on alcohol,
0:28:46 > 0:28:50and goodness and prosperity will come if you keep away
0:28:50 > 0:28:52- from the demon drink. - Stay away from the evil drink
0:28:52 > 0:28:55- and you'll have wonderfully rosy-faced children.- Yes.
0:28:55 > 0:28:59And here we have, "Glwth a meddw yw efe."
0:28:59 > 0:29:01"He's a glutton and a drunkard."
0:29:01 > 0:29:05Glutton and a drunkard. Dear me!
0:29:05 > 0:29:07So that does tell you an awful lot
0:29:07 > 0:29:10about the relationship between father and son.
0:29:10 > 0:29:13- They're almost acting out these roles, aren't they?- They are.
0:29:13 > 0:29:15Of course he's going to disapprove of that boy.
0:29:15 > 0:29:17It's very sad.
0:29:17 > 0:29:21- There is one other item we've got from a newspaper.- OK.
0:29:21 > 0:29:24This takes us forward to 3rd August 1920.
0:29:24 > 0:29:28This headline here - "Trychineb yn Llanrothen."
0:29:28 > 0:29:32- We do have the English translation here.- Just as well. Yes.
0:29:32 > 0:29:34"Disaster in Llanrothen.
0:29:34 > 0:29:35"Two drowned."
0:29:39 > 0:29:41Oh.
0:29:41 > 0:29:45"Friday afternoon, Mr Evan Owen and Mrs Anne Hughes were travelling
0:29:45 > 0:29:47"in a vehicle to the market in Porthmadog.
0:29:47 > 0:29:49"It appears that when they were crossing Point y Traeth,
0:29:49 > 0:29:51"a bridge, the horse became disturbed
0:29:51 > 0:29:54"and started to move backwards until he hit the rail
0:29:54 > 0:29:57"and fell into the River Glaslyn."
0:29:57 > 0:30:00"The bodies of Mr Evan Owen and Mrs Hughes could be seen
0:30:00 > 0:30:02"carried away by the flood."
0:30:02 > 0:30:05HE SIGHS
0:30:05 > 0:30:06Oh, dear, Evan.
0:30:09 > 0:30:11Well, I wasn't expecting that.
0:30:14 > 0:30:16And I wonder what William thought of this,
0:30:16 > 0:30:18I wonder if he was even in touch with William.
0:30:18 > 0:30:19It's very difficult to know at this point.
0:30:19 > 0:30:22We're sort of willing him, "Get back in touch with your son!"
0:30:22 > 0:30:24- That's what I'm thinking.- Mm.
0:30:24 > 0:30:25"Get back in touch with your son!
0:30:25 > 0:30:28"Maybe he needs you, he's drinking too much."
0:30:29 > 0:30:33So I'm willing their relationships to all sort themselves out,
0:30:33 > 0:30:34and then he goes and drowns.
0:30:40 > 0:30:41I mean, you know...
0:30:44 > 0:30:46It's so strange when you get involved in someone's life
0:30:46 > 0:30:48like this, someone who's long dead.
0:30:51 > 0:30:53I'm so sad to hear that he drowned.
0:31:04 > 0:31:08Greg has come to the Point y Traeth, the scene of Evan's drowning,
0:31:08 > 0:31:10to meet local historian Nia Powell.
0:31:12 > 0:31:16- So I was given this report, Nia, that gives more detail.- Yes.
0:31:16 > 0:31:20There's a witness statement here, actually, from Doctor Tarleton,
0:31:20 > 0:31:24who was the person who got Evan's body out of the water?
0:31:24 > 0:31:27Well, he was a fisherman and he happened to be here
0:31:27 > 0:31:29on the bank fishing and saw what happened.
0:31:29 > 0:31:32Right. "Doctor Paul Tarleton gave evidence and stated that he was
0:31:32 > 0:31:35"on the furthest side of the bridge when he saw the vehicle approach
0:31:35 > 0:31:37"from the direction of Garreg.
0:31:37 > 0:31:41"The horse started to take fright and it went against the rail,
0:31:41 > 0:31:44"which broke, and the cart and its passengers fell into the river.
0:31:44 > 0:31:48"He could not say what caused the horse to take fright."
0:31:48 > 0:31:50What happened, apparently, I've heard,
0:31:50 > 0:31:53is that as they were crossing the bridge,
0:31:53 > 0:31:58the water was so high that it actually bubbled through the planks.
0:31:58 > 0:32:01- Yes.- And the horse shied because of this,
0:32:01 > 0:32:07started backing and the whole cart fell through the railing,
0:32:07 > 0:32:10which was defective, into the water.
0:32:10 > 0:32:14Right. "Doctor Paul Tarleton jumped into the river and he swam as far
0:32:14 > 0:32:17"as he could but he could not reach them as the current was too fierce.
0:32:17 > 0:32:21"Then he called on Jones to give him a fishing rod and he succeeded in
0:32:21 > 0:32:24"dragging the body towards the river bank.
0:32:24 > 0:32:26"He tried to resuscitate him but to no avail.
0:32:26 > 0:32:30"He saw the other body being carried away but couldn't reach it."
0:32:31 > 0:32:34Yes, sad story, isn't it?
0:32:34 > 0:32:36It is, it really is a sad story.
0:32:38 > 0:32:42So, Nia, this story at the time was pretty big news in the area then?
0:32:42 > 0:32:44Oh, it was.
0:32:44 > 0:32:46I think it shook the whole area.
0:32:46 > 0:32:49He was such a well-known figure, really.
0:32:49 > 0:32:51- A prosperous farmer, etc.- Yeah.
0:32:51 > 0:32:52And in a sense, I think, well,
0:32:52 > 0:32:55some modern myths have arisen out of it.
0:32:55 > 0:33:00My mother always told me that around this area there's ghosts
0:33:00 > 0:33:03of a man and a woman, in a horse and cart,
0:33:03 > 0:33:07- with the man cracking his whip to get the horse to go.- Really?
0:33:07 > 0:33:09And that it's associated with this accident.
0:33:09 > 0:33:12Well, I think that's a fitting point for us to leave here,
0:33:12 > 0:33:16with the idea of my great-great-grandfather
0:33:16 > 0:33:19still riding the bridge and cracking his whip.
0:33:19 > 0:33:22- I think that's wonderful.- He may just come along that road now.
0:33:22 > 0:33:23He may, he may.
0:33:32 > 0:33:37Learning about the sad demise of Evan throws up lots of questions
0:33:37 > 0:33:39about fathers and sons.
0:33:41 > 0:33:45This whole area of Wales brings back lots of memories
0:33:45 > 0:33:47of spending time with my dad.
0:33:50 > 0:33:54And for me to be discovering the story of two men from my family,
0:33:54 > 0:33:58a father and son, who seemingly had no relationship,
0:33:58 > 0:34:01is quite a contrast.
0:34:01 > 0:34:03And sort of niggles at me,
0:34:03 > 0:34:06to the extent that I have to find out more about William,
0:34:06 > 0:34:09because I do think it will have cast such a shadow on his life.
0:34:16 > 0:34:20The last thing Greg discovered about William was that he fathered
0:34:20 > 0:34:23two daughters, Edith and Rebecca,
0:34:23 > 0:34:25with his great-grandmother, Elizabeth,
0:34:25 > 0:34:29and that she was pursuing him for child maintenance for them.
0:34:34 > 0:34:37Greg's now picking up William's story
0:34:37 > 0:34:40and he's come to Snowdon Street in Porthmadog,
0:34:40 > 0:34:42to see the house where the girls were born.
0:34:44 > 0:34:47- Eilir.- Hello.- Hello again. - Hello again.- Nice to see you.
0:34:47 > 0:34:52- And you too.- So, this is number 56,
0:34:52 > 0:34:56- the place where my nain was born. - Yes.
0:34:56 > 0:35:01Which is most peculiar, to think of Nain being born here.
0:35:01 > 0:35:06So I've learned an awful lot, Eilir, since we last met, about my family,
0:35:06 > 0:35:09but I'm sort of at a bit of a dead end with William.
0:35:09 > 0:35:12I've been delving deeper.
0:35:12 > 0:35:14See what you make of this.
0:35:14 > 0:35:17Something tells me this isn't going to be good.
0:35:17 > 0:35:20Ah! Now, this is a birth certificate.
0:35:20 > 0:35:23So this is a daughter that William's had, Elizabeth,
0:35:23 > 0:35:26a girl, in 1907.
0:35:26 > 0:35:28So this is a new...
0:35:28 > 0:35:34This is a new daughter by a different lady.
0:35:34 > 0:35:37Martha Owen, formerly Williams.
0:35:37 > 0:35:39Formerly Williams?
0:35:39 > 0:35:42So that suggests that he was married to this lady?
0:35:42 > 0:35:44It suggests that, doesn't it?
0:35:44 > 0:35:47Oh, goodness me. Well, this is...
0:35:49 > 0:35:52- This is complicated. - It does get complicated now, yeah.
0:35:53 > 0:35:57- So this is 1907.- Yes.- And...
0:36:00 > 0:36:02I'm just trying to remember,
0:36:02 > 0:36:05Edith, my nain, was born in 1904.
0:36:05 > 0:36:09- That's right. - But Rebecca was born in 1907.
0:36:09 > 0:36:11That's right, yes.
0:36:11 > 0:36:13Oh.
0:36:13 > 0:36:15You're doing the maths, and...
0:36:15 > 0:36:17So the same year...
0:36:18 > 0:36:22The same year William fathered Rebecca,
0:36:22 > 0:36:24my nain's younger sister,
0:36:24 > 0:36:28he also fathered a daughter called Elizabeth,
0:36:28 > 0:36:32by a different - a different lady.
0:36:32 > 0:36:35- So really, we're into proper scandal territory here.- Yes.
0:36:35 > 0:36:37He's been shockingly irresponsible.
0:36:39 > 0:36:42- That's one way of putting it! - That's what I would say.
0:36:42 > 0:36:44Oh, goodness me, William.
0:36:44 > 0:36:48So there were two ladies pregnant, for a period of several months,
0:36:48 > 0:36:51- by the same man.- In the same town.
0:36:51 > 0:36:54In the same town, which is not a big town,
0:36:54 > 0:36:55- Porthmadog.- Not at all, no.
0:36:55 > 0:36:58That would have been really scandalous.
0:36:58 > 0:37:02And he's still listed as a butcher, so he's still in the same place.
0:37:02 > 0:37:05We know it's an established butcher's,
0:37:05 > 0:37:07so everyone will know him.
0:37:07 > 0:37:09- Very much so. - Do we know where the butcher's was?
0:37:09 > 0:37:13We do, yeah. It's along the High Street, not far at all.
0:37:16 > 0:37:18Right.
0:37:18 > 0:37:21- The butcher's shop, number 11, Bank Place.- There it is.
0:37:21 > 0:37:23- Shall we go in?- After you.
0:37:27 > 0:37:30Clearly not a butcher's any more, but the signs are there.
0:37:30 > 0:37:33These presumably would be for hanging the meat on.
0:37:33 > 0:37:36So, dare I ask, Eilir, if you have anything else,
0:37:36 > 0:37:40now we're here, where William worked?
0:37:40 > 0:37:41I do, yes.
0:37:41 > 0:37:46I have this document, well, it's an article from the Cambrian News.
0:37:46 > 0:37:51- Right.- And See if you can have a look at this article
0:37:51 > 0:37:52in the middle, there.
0:37:52 > 0:37:54"Lot number one. Mr Henry Roberts,
0:37:54 > 0:37:57"is instructed by the representatives
0:37:57 > 0:37:59"of the late Mrs Jones, butcher,
0:37:59 > 0:38:03"to sell by auction at 11 Bank Place."
0:38:03 > 0:38:081907, so the year of this great drama of William
0:38:08 > 0:38:11fathering two children by two different ladies.
0:38:11 > 0:38:13The butcher's shop has been put up for sale.
0:38:13 > 0:38:15It was owned by his grandmother.
0:38:15 > 0:38:18- Yes, it was his grandparents' business.- Yes.
0:38:18 > 0:38:20His grandmother had only just recently died.
0:38:20 > 0:38:25And now he's essentially lost his job, lost his livelihood.
0:38:25 > 0:38:30So, now, now we know why in a court case with Elizabeth,
0:38:30 > 0:38:32he was unable to pay.
0:38:32 > 0:38:35- It's pretty grim all round, really. - Yes.
0:38:35 > 0:38:38I can't imagine, in a small town like this,
0:38:38 > 0:38:42faced with this situation what he could do.
0:38:42 > 0:38:44There weren't many options available to him.
0:38:44 > 0:38:49He was mentioned again in the local newspapers.
0:38:49 > 0:38:54- In the news.- Now, this is three years on.- Three years later.
0:38:54 > 0:38:56An English translation.
0:38:56 > 0:38:58- "Avoiding payment." - "Avoiding payment."
0:38:58 > 0:39:01"In the courthouse on Thursday, Mr William Owen,
0:39:01 > 0:39:05"butcher from Porthmadog was prosecuted for not paying
0:39:05 > 0:39:08"maintenance for his illegitimate child
0:39:08 > 0:39:11"in accordance with a court order of May 1907.
0:39:11 > 0:39:15- "It was said that the debt was £16 by now." A lot of money.- It is.
0:39:17 > 0:39:19"Mr John Humphrys, for the defendant,
0:39:19 > 0:39:22"said that William Owen had behaved well in the South."
0:39:22 > 0:39:23"He had behaved well in the South."
0:39:23 > 0:39:26What does that mean, "in the South"?
0:39:26 > 0:39:30- The South would mean South Wales. - Right.
0:39:30 > 0:39:33So I wonder why he went to South Wales, what led him there?
0:39:33 > 0:39:38Presumably he had to flee North Wales and put some space
0:39:38 > 0:39:41between him and the mess he's created.
0:39:41 > 0:39:44"The bench committed him to prison for a fortnight."
0:39:44 > 0:39:47So he did go to prison. Blimey.
0:39:47 > 0:39:50I think what I've got to find out now is where he went
0:39:50 > 0:39:54in South Wales, to get a full picture of what happened next.
0:39:54 > 0:39:59Well, Eilir, thank you so much for delivering...
0:40:01 > 0:40:05..you know, by any definition, an amazing raft of grim news,
0:40:05 > 0:40:08in the story of William Owen.
0:40:14 > 0:40:18Greg has discovered that by 1910 his great-grandfather William
0:40:18 > 0:40:20had left Porthmadog.
0:40:22 > 0:40:25- Thank you.- There you go. You're welcome.- Thank you.
0:40:25 > 0:40:31Right, so, I'm going to try and find out where William went to,
0:40:31 > 0:40:35after a pretty disastrous period in his life.
0:40:35 > 0:40:37We know that he went to South Wales.
0:40:37 > 0:40:41Ah-ha, right, there he is, William Owen.
0:40:41 > 0:40:45And he's listed as living in 25 Upper Terrace, Stanleytown,
0:40:45 > 0:40:47in Glamorgan in South Wales.
0:40:48 > 0:40:51His spouse is still listed as Martha Owen,
0:40:51 > 0:40:54so I guess that bodes slightly well for him.
0:40:54 > 0:41:00He's got two children now, Bessie Owen, and a son, Robert.
0:41:00 > 0:41:01He's no longer a butcher.
0:41:01 > 0:41:03He's now down as a colliery labourer.
0:41:03 > 0:41:06So he's in mining now.
0:41:06 > 0:41:10So it feels to me, if I'm going to really find out about, uh,
0:41:10 > 0:41:13about William's life from this point,
0:41:13 > 0:41:15I probably need to go to Stanleytown.
0:41:20 > 0:41:23The thing that strikes me is what a long distance it is,
0:41:23 > 0:41:25even in a modern car.
0:41:26 > 0:41:28It's going to take the best part of four hours.
0:41:28 > 0:41:31Of course, William would have been, presumably,
0:41:31 > 0:41:33travelling by horse and cart.
0:41:35 > 0:41:38I can't shake the idea that William may have been taking
0:41:38 > 0:41:43his family away from the chaos he's caused in North Wales.
0:41:45 > 0:41:48But if my great-grandfather did think he could evade
0:41:48 > 0:41:50his responsibilities,
0:41:50 > 0:41:54I'm here to tell him that 105 years on,
0:41:54 > 0:41:55I'm coming for him.
0:41:57 > 0:41:59Into the Valleys, real mining country.
0:42:03 > 0:42:05By the early 1900s,
0:42:05 > 0:42:08when Greg's great-grandfather William came to work in Stanleytown
0:42:08 > 0:42:13in the Rhondda Valley, the area's mining boom was in full swing.
0:42:15 > 0:42:18At their peak in 1913,
0:42:18 > 0:42:21the mines of South Wales employed a quarter of a million men,
0:42:21 > 0:42:25and produced 57 million tonnes of coal.
0:42:29 > 0:42:32Greg is meeting local historian Dr Daryl Leeworthy,
0:42:32 > 0:42:35who's been looking into William's life in Stanleytown.
0:42:36 > 0:42:39So, welcome to the Rhondda, Greg, and to Stanleytown itself.
0:42:39 > 0:42:41Thank you, I'm happy to be here.
0:42:41 > 0:42:45And I must say, it's really surreal to be standing outside
0:42:45 > 0:42:48William's next home, from Porthmadog.
0:42:48 > 0:42:51If I show you this photograph here,
0:42:51 > 0:42:54which you can immediately place yourself in just by looking
0:42:54 > 0:42:56- at the rows of houses. - Absolutely, yeah.
0:42:56 > 0:42:59You can see the pits along the valley floor there.
0:42:59 > 0:43:01- Following the line of the valley. - Absolutely.- Going round.
0:43:01 > 0:43:05So that picture was taken probably when he was living in the house.
0:43:05 > 0:43:11- Yeah.- So, my feeling is that as well as finding work here,
0:43:11 > 0:43:15he was using this distance to get away from a fairly sticky situation
0:43:15 > 0:43:16up in Porthmadog.
0:43:16 > 0:43:19Well, if you think there were about 500 people
0:43:19 > 0:43:20living in the Rhondda in 1801.
0:43:20 > 0:43:26And by the time William is down here, there's over 150,000 people.
0:43:26 > 0:43:29- Wow.- They've come from the North, the North of England,
0:43:29 > 0:43:31the West Midlands, the West Country.
0:43:31 > 0:43:33His neighbours, they've never met him before,
0:43:33 > 0:43:34- they might be from Bristol.- Right.
0:43:34 > 0:43:37So it doesn't really matter. You're making a new society.
0:43:37 > 0:43:41- Yeah, it's an entirely logical journey in a way.- Yeah.
0:43:41 > 0:43:43So, the big question is, Daryl,
0:43:43 > 0:43:46have you found any other information that would give me more of a picture
0:43:46 > 0:43:49- of William? - Well, we've managed to find,
0:43:49 > 0:43:54to trace William and Martha's last surviving daughter, Meirionwen,
0:43:54 > 0:43:57who's rather keen to meet you.
0:43:57 > 0:43:59- Who's still alive? - She is indeed, yes.
0:44:03 > 0:44:06Well, that is incredible.
0:44:06 > 0:44:09I'm trying to think what relation she is to me then.
0:44:09 > 0:44:11Step-grandmother?
0:44:12 > 0:44:14No. Half-granny?
0:44:14 > 0:44:16I've got a half-great-aunt.
0:44:16 > 0:44:19- HE LAUGHS - I didn't know about!
0:44:22 > 0:44:24Greg knows that as well as having two daughters
0:44:24 > 0:44:26with his great-grandmother Elizabeth,
0:44:26 > 0:44:29his great-grandfather, William Owen,
0:44:29 > 0:44:32had another family with Martha Williams,
0:44:32 > 0:44:33the woman he married.
0:44:37 > 0:44:40Their eldest children were Bessie and Robert,
0:44:40 > 0:44:44and Greg's now discovered that their youngest daughter, Meirionwen,
0:44:44 > 0:44:48who was born in 1928, is still living in South Wales.
0:44:55 > 0:44:59Greg has come across the valley to the Welfare Hall in Tylorstown,
0:44:59 > 0:45:03which has been the hub of the local community since the 1930s.
0:45:05 > 0:45:07He's meeting Meirionwen here.
0:45:09 > 0:45:12- Hello.- Hello.
0:45:12 > 0:45:14- Hello, Meirionwen.- Hello.
0:45:14 > 0:45:16How lovely to meet you.
0:45:16 > 0:45:18- I'll need a ladder for me to get up! - You will.
0:45:18 > 0:45:20- THEY CHUCKLE - How are you?- Very well, thank you.
0:45:20 > 0:45:22- It's nice to meet you. - You're like my family.
0:45:22 > 0:45:24- Yeah?- Yes.
0:45:24 > 0:45:27- Do I look like them? - Yes, you do, yes, yes.
0:45:27 > 0:45:29I can see it in your face as well, I really can!
0:45:29 > 0:45:32You've such similar eyes to my nain.
0:45:32 > 0:45:36- Have I?- Yeah.- You look like a big great-grandson.- Really?- Yeah.
0:45:36 > 0:45:40Well, it's pretty recent news to you that there were,
0:45:40 > 0:45:43- that you had two half-sisters. - Of course it was, I was gutted.
0:45:43 > 0:45:45I couldn't believe it. Never, ever thought of it.
0:45:45 > 0:45:48What I know is that by the time your dad came down here,
0:45:48 > 0:45:50- he already had two children. - Yes, that's it.
0:45:50 > 0:45:53How many brothers and sisters were there in the end?
0:45:53 > 0:45:56Six boys and three girls.
0:45:56 > 0:46:00Now then, that's Evan, a bit like you, by there.
0:46:00 > 0:46:03- I can't tell you how much he looks like my dad.- Yes.
0:46:03 > 0:46:06- And my brother Gwynedd. - That's your brother?- Yes.
0:46:06 > 0:46:09- He was a smooth one, wasn't he? - Oh, yes.- Yeah.
0:46:09 > 0:46:11- And there's me, by there.- Ah!
0:46:11 > 0:46:15- And that's my mother. - That's your mum?- Yes.
0:46:15 > 0:46:17- Hard-working woman, she was. - Martha. Was she?- Yeah.
0:46:17 > 0:46:20Do you think your mother knew that he had other children?
0:46:20 > 0:46:21No, I don't think she did.
0:46:21 > 0:46:24- She didn't have a very nice life with him at all.- Really?
0:46:24 > 0:46:28- Very jealous. Very moody. - He was a very jealous man?- Yes.
0:46:28 > 0:46:30So, he wanted to be jealous and all, didn't he?
0:46:30 > 0:46:33Well, it's amazing that he was the jealous one, because he was...
0:46:33 > 0:46:36Yes, yes, awful jealous. She had three daughters,
0:46:36 > 0:46:37and my mother used to say to us,
0:46:37 > 0:46:42"If you had the life that I've had... I'd rather bury you."
0:46:43 > 0:46:46Didn't want us three girls to get married.
0:46:46 > 0:46:48Because life with William was that bad?
0:46:48 > 0:46:52- There he is, by there. - There he is.- Yeah.
0:46:52 > 0:46:55- William.- Mm. - It's the first time I've seen him.
0:46:55 > 0:46:59And I feel like I've got to know him very well over the last few days.
0:46:59 > 0:47:01- SHE CHUCKLES - Yeah.
0:47:01 > 0:47:03The picture we've picked up of him as a young man,
0:47:03 > 0:47:05he was a real Jack-the-lad, you know?
0:47:05 > 0:47:08Oh, yeah, oh, he was Jack-the-lad, all right.
0:47:08 > 0:47:10- He looks tall, was he tall? - Yes, he was, yes.
0:47:10 > 0:47:14- Big man, very big man. - Like, over six foot, was he?- Yeah.
0:47:14 > 0:47:17- Not freakish, not 6"8? Not like me. - No, no, not like you, no!
0:47:19 > 0:47:22Here's his great-grandson, tracking his daughter down,
0:47:22 > 0:47:25hundred years later, I bet he never thought that would happen, did he?
0:47:25 > 0:47:30- No. I bet he's turning in his grave, he is.- Well, yeah. He got found out.
0:47:30 > 0:47:32You always get found out in the end.
0:47:32 > 0:47:35- In the end, even if it is 110 years later.- Yeah.
0:47:42 > 0:47:45William died in 1941,
0:47:45 > 0:47:48and Meirionwen has told Greg that his grave is just up the road
0:47:48 > 0:47:51in the local Tylorstown Cemetery.
0:47:55 > 0:47:58I'm looking for William's final resting place.
0:48:01 > 0:48:04Ah, here he is.
0:48:06 > 0:48:10I don't think it would be right for me to be too negative
0:48:10 > 0:48:13about a man, when I'm standing next to his grave.
0:48:13 > 0:48:16I don't think my nain would like that, but the truth is,
0:48:16 > 0:48:20I've followed the journey of, by most accounts,
0:48:20 > 0:48:21quite a difficult man.
0:48:23 > 0:48:26What I'm left feeling is, that I don't connect with him.
0:48:27 > 0:48:30I can see my family in Meirionwen
0:48:30 > 0:48:32but I can't see my family in William,
0:48:32 > 0:48:34from everything I know about him.
0:48:34 > 0:48:37Weirdly, I feel more connected to Evan.
0:48:38 > 0:48:41What it feels like to me is I should go back to North Wales,
0:48:41 > 0:48:43where my family really started.
0:48:55 > 0:49:00The final thing Greg wants to do is retrace his steps to North Wales,
0:49:00 > 0:49:03where he hopes to find out more about his Owen family roots.
0:49:09 > 0:49:14So I'm on the road towards Cwm Mawr, probably pronounced badly,
0:49:14 > 0:49:18which is the farm that we know Evan was living in when he got married.
0:49:18 > 0:49:21So it will be interesting to see what sort of farm it is.
0:49:21 > 0:49:25He's come to the hills of Snowdonia to visit the Owen family farm,
0:49:25 > 0:49:28where he knows Evan lived as a young man.
0:49:28 > 0:49:31The view is amazing.
0:49:34 > 0:49:36Yeah, that is an incredible view.
0:49:39 > 0:49:41Here it is.
0:49:48 > 0:49:52Greg is meeting another of his Owen relations, Alwena Lamping.
0:49:54 > 0:49:57- Hello, Alwena.- Hello, Greg. - How nice to meet you.
0:49:57 > 0:49:59Yes, lovely to meet you too.
0:49:59 > 0:50:01I understand we have a shared heritage.
0:50:01 > 0:50:03Well, a shared ancestry in Evan Owen, I think,
0:50:03 > 0:50:05- yes, certainly, yes.- Yes.
0:50:05 > 0:50:09I am Evan Owen's great-great-grandson.
0:50:09 > 0:50:13- I'm his great-granddaughter. - Are you?- I am.- Right.
0:50:13 > 0:50:16This is where he grew up, then?
0:50:16 > 0:50:21I can trace back the family to this farm since about 1660.
0:50:21 > 0:50:22- Really?!- Yeah.
0:50:24 > 0:50:28- Wow.- So little Evan, in the 1850s, with his brothers and sisters,
0:50:28 > 0:50:30would have run around here.
0:50:30 > 0:50:33That's incredible, I had no idea there were generations
0:50:33 > 0:50:36- before him even at this farm house. - Absolutely.
0:50:36 > 0:50:40I have got a photograph of him and his wife,
0:50:40 > 0:50:42and I think it's the four daughters.
0:50:42 > 0:50:44- Here.- Can I take it out?
0:50:44 > 0:50:47- You can indeed. - That is an incredible photograph.
0:50:48 > 0:50:51- You see, there's the man himself, there's Evan Owen.- Yes.
0:50:51 > 0:50:54- There's his wife, she's called Martha.- Yeah.
0:50:54 > 0:50:57This is my grandmother, Mattie.
0:50:57 > 0:50:59- This is clearly their Sunday best, isn't it?- Yes.
0:50:59 > 0:51:02- Is that a Bible he's got there?- Yes. - Of course.
0:51:02 > 0:51:05- Of course it is. - What else? What else?
0:51:05 > 0:51:08The impression I've form of Evan is that he was a very upright
0:51:08 > 0:51:13and respected member of the community and a chapel man, or,
0:51:13 > 0:51:15as my nain would say, he was chapel.
0:51:15 > 0:51:18But I haven't really formed an impression of the man
0:51:18 > 0:51:19outside of that.
0:51:19 > 0:51:23One of the obituaries, one of the tributes to him was from this,
0:51:23 > 0:51:26- The Herald Cymraeg. - After the awful horse incident.
0:51:26 > 0:51:27- After the accident, yes.- Yeah.
0:51:27 > 0:51:31I do have a transcription of it here, in English.
0:51:31 > 0:51:35"Mr Evan Owen had lived for many years in Tal-y-llyn.
0:51:35 > 0:51:37"He was a very intelligent man,
0:51:37 > 0:51:41"a great theologian with extensive knowledge of the Scriptures.
0:51:41 > 0:51:44"He could talk skilfully of both religious and national matters.
0:51:44 > 0:51:47"He also had a certain mischievous or comic talent,
0:51:47 > 0:51:50"which showed when he was with his closest friends
0:51:50 > 0:51:52"and he was a very sociable man."
0:51:52 > 0:51:54That's great to know.
0:51:56 > 0:51:58Mischievous, comic talent, that is not,
0:51:58 > 0:52:02- that is not a phrase that I would attribute to that face.- No!
0:52:03 > 0:52:08My nain had a wicked sense of humour and was extremely mischievous,
0:52:08 > 0:52:12and my father was a wonderful show-off, yeah,
0:52:12 > 0:52:14- and a very funny man. - So it was there?
0:52:14 > 0:52:16It was, yeah, it was there.
0:52:18 > 0:52:21Through her research, Alwena has discovered that at least
0:52:21 > 0:52:25eight generations of the Owen family farmed at Cwm Mawr.
0:52:27 > 0:52:30So is this farm still in the Owen family?
0:52:30 > 0:52:34No, it isn't. Evan Owen's brother was the last one to farm this land.
0:52:34 > 0:52:38The actual land belonged to one of the big estates
0:52:38 > 0:52:40- and was sold in 1897.- I see.
0:52:40 > 0:52:44Which was actually detailed in Gwalia.
0:52:44 > 0:52:47And there's quite interesting information about the family in it,
0:52:47 > 0:52:51- which I've got a translation here for you.- OK.
0:52:53 > 0:52:57"At the recent farm stock sales in the Eifionydd area,
0:52:57 > 0:53:00"we were surprised to see the last of the old lineage
0:53:00 > 0:53:03"of the Cwm Mawr family was leaving.
0:53:04 > 0:53:08"We find that the current family and their ancestors had lived there
0:53:08 > 0:53:10"for at least 200 years.
0:53:10 > 0:53:15"The Owens, who lived there, were descended from Owen..."
0:53:15 > 0:53:16- Gwynedd.- "..Gwynedd."
0:53:16 > 0:53:21- Do you know who Owen Gwynedd is? - I don't.- Right.
0:53:21 > 0:53:24He was King of Gwynedd in the 12th century.
0:53:25 > 0:53:27He was king of this area?
0:53:27 > 0:53:31King of the whole of this part of North Wales in the 12th century.
0:53:31 > 0:53:33And he was the first Prince of Wales,
0:53:33 > 0:53:36he was the first to be styled Prince of Wales.
0:53:42 > 0:53:44Are you saying we're descended from the first Prince of Wales?
0:53:44 > 0:53:47- I am, yes.- I knew it!
0:53:47 > 0:53:49- SHE CHUCKLES - I knew it!
0:53:49 > 0:53:52- I knew I had royal blood.- Yes...
0:53:52 > 0:53:54But it is a long time ago,
0:53:54 > 0:53:59this is the 12th century and Owen Gwynedd had a lot of children,
0:53:59 > 0:54:00I mean a lot of children.
0:54:00 > 0:54:05So if you think of the descendants coming back from the 12th century,
0:54:05 > 0:54:07he did have a lot of descendants.
0:54:07 > 0:54:09He had, some reports say he had 19 children...
0:54:09 > 0:54:11I'm sure he did but...
0:54:11 > 0:54:14- I'm sure he had an awful lot of children.- Yes.
0:54:14 > 0:54:16And I'm sure there are many, many descendants,
0:54:16 > 0:54:19but all I'm hearing is that I'm descended
0:54:19 > 0:54:21- from the original Prince of Wales. - Yes.
0:54:21 > 0:54:25And that's all I'm going to hear, I'll be honest with you.
0:54:25 > 0:54:27That's fine. And this, of course, was Gwynedd,
0:54:27 > 0:54:30which is what he was king of, look, behind you. All of that.
0:54:30 > 0:54:33- It's not a bad landscape to be king of.- No, it's not, is it?
0:54:35 > 0:54:36If I've read you correctly...
0:54:38 > 0:54:39..I rule this.
0:54:43 > 0:54:47Owen Gwynedd became ruler of Gwynedd in 1137,
0:54:47 > 0:54:50and afterwards conquered most of North Wales.
0:54:52 > 0:54:57In 1165, he triumphed over the English king, Henry II,
0:54:57 > 0:54:59who had invaded his kingdom,
0:54:59 > 0:55:03and afterwards took the title Prince of Wales.
0:55:04 > 0:55:08I've been led to believe that there is an outside chance
0:55:08 > 0:55:11that I may not be the only person who is descended from Owen Gwynedd.
0:55:13 > 0:55:16So I'm heading to an appropriately named pub.
0:55:22 > 0:55:26Hello. I'm looking for people who might be related to Owen Gwynedd.
0:55:26 > 0:55:28- ALL:- Us...- Me.
0:55:28 > 0:55:31- All of you?- Yes.- Of course.- Right.
0:55:31 > 0:55:34- LAUGHTER - Let me guess...
0:55:34 > 0:55:36You're all descended from Owen the Great.
0:55:36 > 0:55:38- ALL:- Yes!
0:55:38 > 0:55:40Hands up who's got proof of that?
0:55:40 > 0:55:42All of them.
0:55:42 > 0:55:44How many of you are descended from Owen Gwynedd?
0:55:44 > 0:55:48- ALL:- Yes.- You all are?- Yes. - And you've all got proof?- Yes.
0:55:48 > 0:55:50There we are, look.
0:55:50 > 0:55:54How many of you are descended from Owen Gwynedd?
0:55:55 > 0:55:58Including our little friend there, as well?
0:55:58 > 0:56:00Is there anyone in this part of the world that isn't descended
0:56:00 > 0:56:03- from Owen Gwynedd?- Not many. - Not many!
0:56:03 > 0:56:06People at home are going to be very upset by this.
0:56:06 > 0:56:08They thought they'd found their new leader.
0:56:08 > 0:56:11North Walians thought their leader had come home,
0:56:11 > 0:56:16and now I find out they're all the Prince of Wales, even the women!
0:56:22 > 0:56:25It's been quite an overwhelming journey,
0:56:25 > 0:56:27there's a lot to think about.
0:56:27 > 0:56:31I've never really considered the significance of extended family
0:56:31 > 0:56:36before, because we, as a family, were quite a tight unit,
0:56:36 > 0:56:39and obviously I knew my grandparents,
0:56:39 > 0:56:43but didn't really consider the influence of those further back.
0:56:43 > 0:56:47And that's one thing that I'm left in no doubt of -
0:56:47 > 0:56:49is that the people who've gone before you,
0:56:49 > 0:56:52shape who you become, to a degree.
0:56:53 > 0:56:57And I haven't really worked out to what extent,
0:56:57 > 0:57:00but I've felt it for the first time ever, really.
0:57:05 > 0:57:07So much of this has been, for me,
0:57:07 > 0:57:10about fathers and sons and the relationship of fathers and sons,
0:57:10 > 0:57:12and the importance of that,
0:57:12 > 0:57:16and I think my father would be, uh,
0:57:16 > 0:57:20both delighted and annoyed
0:57:20 > 0:57:25that I have at last taken an interest in his family,
0:57:25 > 0:57:27and the roots that were so dear to him,
0:57:27 > 0:57:31and I will come back here and I will find out more,
0:57:31 > 0:57:34and I'm only sorry I didn't do it sooner.
0:58:04 > 0:58:06All mine!