0:00:02 > 0:00:05- Who's going to win today? - Guys, don't forget...
0:00:05 > 0:00:09Actor Warwick Davis lives in East Anglia,
0:00:09 > 0:00:12- with his wife and two children. - Look at the nice new karts.
0:00:12 > 0:00:16Having a strong family around you is hugely important.
0:00:16 > 0:00:20I am really lucky to have my wife Sam and my kids,
0:00:20 > 0:00:21Annabel and Harrison,
0:00:21 > 0:00:24as my solid rock foundations.
0:00:24 > 0:00:27Look at you. He's a little Lego figure.
0:00:27 > 0:00:32And I strongly believe that I wouldn't be the person that I am without them.
0:00:32 > 0:00:35- Come on then, who wants to be beaten?- Go and have fun. Be careful, guys.
0:00:35 > 0:00:38- Let's go.- Drive careful.
0:00:38 > 0:00:42Warwick owes his big break as an actor at the age of 11
0:00:42 > 0:00:43to his grandmother.
0:00:43 > 0:00:47She heard a radio commercial,
0:00:47 > 0:00:50and it was basically Lucasfilm who make Star Wars looking for
0:00:50 > 0:00:54short people to appear in Return Of The Jedi.
0:00:54 > 0:00:57The fact that I was short gave me a lucky break
0:00:57 > 0:00:59and I've took advantage of that.
0:00:59 > 0:01:01So here I am, 35 years later,
0:01:01 > 0:01:05still running with that opportunity and I have my grandmother
0:01:05 > 0:01:06to thank for it.
0:01:08 > 0:01:13I don't think there will be any other performers in my family history.
0:01:13 > 0:01:14I'm not expecting that at all.
0:01:18 > 0:01:22I'd like people in my history to be a little bit maverick,
0:01:22 > 0:01:23a little bit...
0:01:25 > 0:01:29..ducking and diving, wheeling and dealing perhaps.
0:01:29 > 0:01:31Cos I don't tend to follow the rules.
0:01:34 > 0:01:39I'd be excited to discover stories of people overcoming a challenge
0:01:39 > 0:01:43and making something of their lives.
0:01:43 > 0:01:46There's a couple of bends there where you're just clinging on for dear life.
0:01:46 > 0:01:49And I won't be embarrassed by whatever I discover.
0:01:51 > 0:01:54Yeah, bring it on. Let's have an adventure.
0:02:27 > 0:02:30- ANNOUNCER:- Platform 10 for the 10.43 Southern...
0:02:36 > 0:02:37I'm going to see my mum today.
0:02:37 > 0:02:42I'm hoping that she might know a little bit about some of the people
0:02:42 > 0:02:44in our family.
0:02:44 > 0:02:46Fingers crossed she'll have a nugget of information
0:02:46 > 0:02:48that will set me on my way.
0:02:50 > 0:02:53Warwick's parents separated when he was a teenager.
0:02:53 > 0:02:55His mum Sue now lives in Sussex.
0:02:58 > 0:03:00- Hello.- Hello.- How are you?
0:03:00 > 0:03:02Fine, thank you. Lovely to see you.
0:03:02 > 0:03:05- And you.- Come in, come in. - Thank you.
0:03:08 > 0:03:10I'm kind of on a journey at the minute,
0:03:10 > 0:03:13trying to figure out where I come from, basically.
0:03:13 > 0:03:15- Mm-hmm.- I know you're my mum, but...
0:03:16 > 0:03:19It's all about beyond that, further back than that.
0:03:19 > 0:03:22- We never really talked about it, did we?- No, I know. As a family,
0:03:22 > 0:03:25I think we should have spoken a lot more about it, but my mother,
0:03:25 > 0:03:27she never really told me anything.
0:03:27 > 0:03:31So, have you ever done any research into our family history?
0:03:31 > 0:03:35Well, I have done a little here,
0:03:35 > 0:03:39which helps you see the line that we go back.
0:03:39 > 0:03:45- There is me and Kim.- There's you and Kim, coming up to me and Dad.
0:03:45 > 0:03:46That's a relief.
0:03:47 > 0:03:51And then we come up here to my parents.
0:03:51 > 0:03:53Winifred, which was your nana.
0:03:53 > 0:03:55- Oh, yeah.- And Waller Edward.
0:03:55 > 0:03:58Great names, Winifred and Waller.
0:03:58 > 0:04:01Fabulous. We don't have names like that any more, do we?
0:04:01 > 0:04:05And that is your great-grandfather, and his name was McGregor.
0:04:05 > 0:04:09And then of course it goes up to your great-great-granddad...
0:04:09 > 0:04:11- Frederick Durban. - ..who was Frederick Durban.
0:04:12 > 0:04:13Wow.
0:04:14 > 0:04:19And we also found out that McGregor
0:04:19 > 0:04:25was a postman, and also the great-grandad, Frederick Durban,
0:04:25 > 0:04:27he was a postman.
0:04:27 > 0:04:31- Really?- Mmm.- I wondered why I had a strange affinity for our postman.
0:04:31 > 0:04:34- I always like to chat to him for some reason.- Do you? Well, there you go.
0:04:34 > 0:04:36It's in your genes.
0:04:36 > 0:04:41So, Frederick Durban is my great-great-grandfather.
0:04:41 > 0:04:42That's right.
0:04:42 > 0:04:45- I need to find out more about him, I think.- Mmm.
0:04:50 > 0:04:53Warwick has ordered up the birth certificate for his
0:04:53 > 0:04:56great-great-grandfather, Frederick Durban.
0:04:59 > 0:05:03Right. This should be the birth certificate
0:05:03 > 0:05:06of my great-great-grandfather,
0:05:06 > 0:05:07Frederick Durban.
0:05:10 > 0:05:13He was born on July 19th, 1841.
0:05:14 > 0:05:17Frederick Durban King.
0:05:17 > 0:05:21His father was called Frederick John Durban, which is a bit confusing,
0:05:21 > 0:05:23cos they've both got the same name.
0:05:23 > 0:05:25So, we've got Frederick Snr, Frederick Jr.
0:05:27 > 0:05:29His mum was Sarah King.
0:05:29 > 0:05:33So it looks like Frederick Jr's mum and dad weren't married.
0:05:35 > 0:05:37Because they've both got different surnames.
0:05:37 > 0:05:41So that makes Frederick Durban King an illegitimate child.
0:05:41 > 0:05:43But, I mean, that is horrible to label, isn't it?
0:05:43 > 0:05:45I mean, it is still their son, whatever happens, so...
0:05:47 > 0:05:49Don't mind that.
0:05:50 > 0:05:52To find out more about the family,
0:05:52 > 0:05:57Warwick is looking up Frederick Snr on the census from 1841.
0:05:58 > 0:05:59Let's see what we get.
0:06:02 > 0:06:05So we've got here, Fred Durban.
0:06:05 > 0:06:08So Frederick Snr, age 35.
0:06:08 > 0:06:10Another letter carrier.
0:06:12 > 0:06:14In the parish or township of Croydon.
0:06:16 > 0:06:19The next person listed is...
0:06:22 > 0:06:25It doesn't match Sarah there, it is another Durban.
0:06:28 > 0:06:30So...
0:06:30 > 0:06:32Sophia Durban.
0:06:32 > 0:06:33Who's that? Ooh.
0:06:35 > 0:06:37That could have been his wife.
0:06:37 > 0:06:40So the list continues below.
0:06:40 > 0:06:41There's loads of kids.
0:06:41 > 0:06:44Look at them all, there's a huge list here.
0:06:44 > 0:06:47Mmm. So, he was married...
0:06:48 > 0:06:51..and he had a child with Sarah while he was married,
0:06:51 > 0:06:52by the look of it here.
0:06:54 > 0:06:58Ooh. I don't know what to take away from this,
0:06:58 > 0:06:59other than a lot more questions.
0:07:07 > 0:07:10What I've discovered is potentially quite...
0:07:11 > 0:07:12..an awkward situation.
0:07:14 > 0:07:16I want to make sure I've got my facts right here.
0:07:17 > 0:07:19But it is kind of intriguing, isn't it?
0:07:19 > 0:07:22I didn't think this early on I would discover something quite so
0:07:22 > 0:07:24exciting as this.
0:07:33 > 0:07:36Warwick has come to Croydon, where, according to the census,
0:07:36 > 0:07:39Frederick Snr was living in 1841.
0:07:40 > 0:07:42He is meeting historian Fern Riddell.
0:07:46 > 0:07:47Hello.
0:07:49 > 0:07:53Fern, I'm a bit confused about the family situation.
0:07:53 > 0:07:56So can you figure out what is going on?
0:07:56 > 0:07:59Is it, as it seems to be,
0:07:59 > 0:08:01a bit naughty?
0:08:01 > 0:08:05Well, I have some records for you that might shed a bit of light
0:08:05 > 0:08:07- on this.- Cool.
0:08:07 > 0:08:10So I have census records.
0:08:10 > 0:08:12We are now in 1861.
0:08:13 > 0:08:18- And on here, we have Frederick Durban.- Yeah.
0:08:18 > 0:08:23And he is here with Sophia, his wife, and one of their daughters.
0:08:26 > 0:08:28Very good. Very good.
0:08:28 > 0:08:32But, for the same census in 1861,
0:08:32 > 0:08:37we also have Fred Snr living with another S Durban...
0:08:38 > 0:08:39..wife.
0:08:41 > 0:08:46- Well, I never.- And the entry below is a very ornate F.
0:08:46 > 0:08:47- That's Frederick Jr...- Yeah.
0:08:47 > 0:08:50..they've called him here. So this is Sarah then perhaps?
0:08:50 > 0:08:51Yeah.
0:08:53 > 0:08:55In Deptford, this one is.
0:08:55 > 0:08:59- Yep.- So he had two houses, or he was registered at two houses,
0:08:59 > 0:09:02according to the census of the same year, yes?
0:09:02 > 0:09:04Mm-hmm.
0:09:04 > 0:09:07Wow. He's pretty light on his feet then, isn't he?
0:09:07 > 0:09:09SHE CHUCKLES
0:09:09 > 0:09:11Goodness me.
0:09:11 > 0:09:13That is excellent, isn't it?
0:09:13 > 0:09:16I mean, it's... It is excellent, it's fun.
0:09:17 > 0:09:18What a crafty thing.
0:09:20 > 0:09:23Yeah. He must have been stressed out, honestly.
0:09:23 > 0:09:26I mean, one wife is bad enough, but trying to...
0:09:26 > 0:09:29I mean, she has got the name Durban.
0:09:29 > 0:09:33- Mm-hmm.- Do you think that was, like, put on here for effect,
0:09:33 > 0:09:36because he couldn't have married both women, surely?
0:09:36 > 0:09:39No, he's not up to that sort of mischief, is he, as well?
0:09:39 > 0:09:42Well, a few years before this census,
0:09:42 > 0:09:44we have a marriage certificate...
0:09:46 > 0:09:48..in 1856.
0:09:48 > 0:09:50- Right.- And down here...
0:09:53 > 0:09:57Look at that. Frederick John Durban, Sarah King.
0:10:00 > 0:10:01- They did get married then.- Yeah.
0:10:02 > 0:10:03Well, I never.
0:10:05 > 0:10:07What is the name of that, when you do that?
0:10:07 > 0:10:08- Bigamy, isn't it?- Yeah.
0:10:09 > 0:10:14So he's definitely married Sarah while he is still married to Sophia.
0:10:15 > 0:10:19Was there a...? What was the punishment for that in those days?
0:10:19 > 0:10:22It's punishable by going to prison, or a fine.
0:10:22 > 0:10:25It is very... You don't do it, it's against the law.
0:10:25 > 0:10:27Bigamy is something we do see in the Victorian period.
0:10:27 > 0:10:32Because divorce wasn't really an option, relationships broke down,
0:10:32 > 0:10:37and if you wanted to move forward and you fell in love with someone else,
0:10:37 > 0:10:38you didn't really have a lot of options.
0:10:38 > 0:10:42You either had to wait for your first partner to die,
0:10:42 > 0:10:45or you married secretly and bigamously,
0:10:45 > 0:10:48and hoped that no-one would find out.
0:10:48 > 0:10:50See, we don't know, from this document, whether...
0:10:52 > 0:10:55..they had come to some sort of arrangement between themselves,
0:10:55 > 0:10:58like, "We can't get divorced, love, you know what it's like in these times."
0:10:58 > 0:11:00Yeah.
0:11:00 > 0:11:04"I'm going to go and live with Sarah, but... Census, I'll put it on...
0:11:04 > 0:11:06"It'll all be fine, I'll look good as well."
0:11:06 > 0:11:09- That could have happened, couldn't it?- It could have.
0:11:09 > 0:11:11It's like a farce, a little bit, isn't it?
0:11:11 > 0:11:16Trying to live these two lives at the same time, goes out one door,
0:11:16 > 0:11:18comes in another.
0:11:18 > 0:11:22It's fantastic. And the fact that he was a postman, it's just...
0:11:22 > 0:11:24You couldn't have written this better.
0:11:24 > 0:11:25I don't think.
0:11:25 > 0:11:26It's fabulous.
0:11:28 > 0:11:31Warwick's confirmed that his great-great-great-grandfather,
0:11:31 > 0:11:34Frederick Snr, had two families.
0:11:35 > 0:11:40One in Croydon with Sophia, and one in Deptford with Sarah,
0:11:40 > 0:11:42the mother of Warwick's great-great-grandfather,
0:11:42 > 0:11:43Frederick Jr.
0:11:50 > 0:11:54Frederick Snr, he's a bit of a rascal, isn't he, really?
0:11:55 > 0:11:58But, you know, you don't know the circumstances.
0:11:58 > 0:12:01We know some of the story,
0:12:01 > 0:12:05but we really don't know what was going on in his personal life
0:12:05 > 0:12:09with his own wife at the time, the stress of having six children
0:12:09 > 0:12:10running around.
0:12:12 > 0:12:16I was surprised that he did also marry Sarah.
0:12:17 > 0:12:19But imagine if he hadn't met her.
0:12:19 > 0:12:22I wouldn't be here. And that is what this is all about,
0:12:22 > 0:12:23at the end of the day, isn't it?
0:12:23 > 0:12:25How I became me, and I'm here today,
0:12:25 > 0:12:29and it is all due to the fact that he one day met Sarah and indeed
0:12:29 > 0:12:32had a child with her, my great-great-grandfather.
0:12:34 > 0:12:36I hope it ended happily, really.
0:12:36 > 0:12:39But I don't see how it can, because somebody is going to lose,
0:12:39 > 0:12:40aren't they, in those situations?
0:12:41 > 0:12:44Either Sophia or Sarah is going to lose.
0:12:48 > 0:12:52To find out how Frederick Snr managed to lead a double life,
0:12:52 > 0:12:55Warwick is meeting local historian Carol Roberts.
0:12:58 > 0:13:00Let's have a look at his life in Croydon.
0:13:02 > 0:13:07This is dated January 1841, and it is what is called a rate book.
0:13:07 > 0:13:11Right, and 1841 was the year that Frederick Jr was born.
0:13:11 > 0:13:13Yes, that's true.
0:13:14 > 0:13:18This is a list of those who were due to pay the rates in Croydon.
0:13:18 > 0:13:20Which is the sort of tax...
0:13:20 > 0:13:23- Yes.- So, there's Frederick there.
0:13:23 > 0:13:25And follow this across here...
0:13:25 > 0:13:27Right. That is the rateable value.
0:13:27 > 0:13:31£28.10.
0:13:31 > 0:13:35Now, this is the next year, this is the rate bok of January 1842.
0:13:37 > 0:13:40This is George Street, we're no longer in the High Street,
0:13:40 > 0:13:42so he has moved around the corner to George Street in Croydon.
0:13:42 > 0:13:44Better?
0:13:44 > 0:13:47Let's have a look. That figure there...
0:13:47 > 0:13:49£13.10.
0:13:49 > 0:13:51- Yes.- This is half the price.
0:13:51 > 0:13:54- Exactly.- He's gone down-market here.
0:13:54 > 0:13:57Or maybe he had to reduce his outgoings because he is indeed
0:13:57 > 0:14:00supporting another family in Deptford,
0:14:00 > 0:14:04perhaps paying rent over there as well.
0:14:04 > 0:14:06I can't imagine he could carry this on for long
0:14:06 > 0:14:08without something breaking.
0:14:09 > 0:14:11Do you know any more about that part of the story?
0:14:11 > 0:14:14Cos I want to figure out how it all ends for him.
0:14:14 > 0:14:16I'm hoping it all ends well.
0:14:16 > 0:14:21Well, in 1870, his wife Sophia dies.
0:14:21 > 0:14:22Oh.
0:14:22 > 0:14:25And then, six months after that, something else happens.
0:14:25 > 0:14:29So this is a marriage certificate between Frederick John Durban
0:14:29 > 0:14:34and Sarah King. Wasn't he already married to her?
0:14:34 > 0:14:35Haven't I seen that somewhere?
0:14:35 > 0:14:39- That's right.- What's going on? - There was a marriage in 1856.
0:14:39 > 0:14:41I see, so she is...
0:14:41 > 0:14:43Even though they were already married...
0:14:44 > 0:14:45..they did it again...
0:14:47 > 0:14:50..legally this time, because his wife had passed away,
0:14:50 > 0:14:52Sophia, at this point.
0:14:52 > 0:14:55- This was about six months after Sophia died. - He didn't hang about, did he?
0:14:55 > 0:14:57- He didn't.- He thought, "I'll get this sorted before I get found out."
0:14:57 > 0:15:01There was always the chance that someone else could have discovered this, even after the fact.
0:15:01 > 0:15:04Yes, they were taking a chance, and the marriage in
0:15:04 > 0:15:08Deptford was actually by bans, which meant that the bans were read out
0:15:08 > 0:15:11- in church...- Yes.- ..three consecutive Sundays before
0:15:11 > 0:15:13they actually married.
0:15:13 > 0:15:16So if anyone from Croydon had been in Deptford, in church...
0:15:16 > 0:15:20- They could have shouted out. - "Hang on a minute, that's..."- Mmm.
0:15:20 > 0:15:21And something that intrigues me,
0:15:21 > 0:15:24and whether you'll be able to answer this, I don't know,
0:15:24 > 0:15:26was whether these two families...
0:15:27 > 0:15:31..knew of each other. Was this an arrangement,
0:15:31 > 0:15:33or was it very sort of cloak and dagger?
0:15:33 > 0:15:36Yes. Well, we have no actual evidence,
0:15:36 > 0:15:39but you might like to have a look at this document.
0:15:43 > 0:15:46- So this is a will... - That's right.
0:15:46 > 0:15:48..of Frederick John Durban.
0:15:50 > 0:15:52It's quite hard to read, even though it is beautiful.
0:15:52 > 0:15:53We have a transcript if it helps.
0:15:53 > 0:15:55Thank you very much.
0:15:58 > 0:16:02"Frederick John Durban do will and bequeath to my daughter
0:16:02 > 0:16:06"Sophia Elizabeth Rose, five pounds."
0:16:06 > 0:16:09- Would she have been delighted? - It was worth having.
0:16:09 > 0:16:12A fiver? I wouldn't have been delighted, but let's move on.
0:16:12 > 0:16:14It acknowledges her, doesn't it, as his daughter.
0:16:14 > 0:16:16Oh, OK. All right.
0:16:16 > 0:16:20And then to Charles, his son, five pounds as well.
0:16:20 > 0:16:21Yeah.
0:16:21 > 0:16:23What I noticed...
0:16:23 > 0:16:25That Frederick Jr is not mentioned on here.
0:16:27 > 0:16:28Is that right?
0:16:28 > 0:16:31Have a look down the names.
0:16:31 > 0:16:36John Durban. Oh, and, "My son Frederick Durban, five pounds."
0:16:36 > 0:16:40So he's acknowledged all of his children in one will here.
0:16:40 > 0:16:43Taking what I know of Frederick Snr,
0:16:43 > 0:16:45I don't think he would have left that
0:16:45 > 0:16:48as a surprise for the family once he'd passed on.
0:16:48 > 0:16:51It would have been nice to paint a picture
0:16:51 > 0:16:53that they all lived together.
0:17:04 > 0:17:08Warwick has come to Queen's Road Cemetery in Croydon to find where
0:17:08 > 0:17:10Frederick Snr is buried.
0:17:11 > 0:17:13So would this be the curve here?
0:17:16 > 0:17:18Maybe this way.
0:17:18 > 0:17:20What happens if it's this one?
0:17:20 > 0:17:22You'd never be able to tell.
0:17:22 > 0:17:23It could be this.
0:17:24 > 0:17:26No. No.
0:17:27 > 0:17:31Sorry, Frederick, I don't think I'm going to exactly find where you are,
0:17:31 > 0:17:33but I know you're round here somewhere.
0:17:36 > 0:17:38Without those chance moments, that time that...
0:17:39 > 0:17:41..Frederick met Sarah...
0:17:42 > 0:17:44Without that one encounter,
0:17:44 > 0:17:48which I would absolutely love to have known what that was,
0:17:48 > 0:17:51how did they meet? Did he knock on her door one day with some post
0:17:51 > 0:17:54and say, "Oh, hello," and she was just...
0:17:54 > 0:17:56You know. What happened?
0:17:56 > 0:17:59You know, did they meet in a pub?
0:17:59 > 0:18:02But without that moment, that chance meeting,
0:18:02 > 0:18:06I wouldn't be standing here now, talking about them...
0:18:06 > 0:18:08as a person. You know, it's incredible, isn't it?
0:18:11 > 0:18:14You know, it's a shame I couldn't have met Frederick Snr,
0:18:14 > 0:18:16because I feel he was the kind of guy I could have got on with.
0:18:18 > 0:18:20He wasn't a scallywag.
0:18:20 > 0:18:22Cos there was a point in this story I was thinking,
0:18:22 > 0:18:25"Hang on a minute, maybe we've got a bit of a naughty one on our hands here,"
0:18:25 > 0:18:30but he's come out of this, you know, as a decent human being, and...
0:18:30 > 0:18:33Yeah, I would have liked to have bought him a pint.
0:18:48 > 0:18:52Warwick now wants to find out more about his father Ashley's
0:18:52 > 0:18:54side of the family.
0:18:54 > 0:18:57He is on his way to visit him at his home in Herefordshire.
0:19:03 > 0:19:07I'm not sure what I'm expecting to find as I start to look back
0:19:07 > 0:19:09on my father's side of the family.
0:19:09 > 0:19:12My first thoughts are it's not going to be anything particularly exciting
0:19:12 > 0:19:15or dramatic, although, that said,
0:19:15 > 0:19:17look at the Durbans on my mum's side of the family.
0:19:17 > 0:19:19I mean, that was quite the saga.
0:19:20 > 0:19:21So who knows?
0:19:27 > 0:19:30- Hello.- How are you? - How's it going?
0:19:30 > 0:19:32- Here at last, eh?- Nice to see you.
0:19:32 > 0:19:33Lovely to see you.
0:19:33 > 0:19:36Yes. Come on in.
0:19:36 > 0:19:40There's not a lot I know about your side of the family beyond nana
0:19:40 > 0:19:41and your dad.
0:19:41 > 0:19:44Cos you never really talked about it yourself, particularly,
0:19:44 > 0:19:46who was before your dad, your grandparents.
0:19:46 > 0:19:50No, we would never sit down and ask him about his family, so, you know,
0:19:50 > 0:19:52I'm interested to find out.
0:19:52 > 0:19:53- And, your dad...- Yes.
0:19:53 > 0:19:57If you were to kind of imagine a city gent...
0:19:57 > 0:20:00He was pinstriped suit and rolled umbrella.
0:20:00 > 0:20:03- Really? The umbrella as well?- Yeah, that was him.- Perfect. Bowler hat?
0:20:03 > 0:20:05Oh, definitely, yes.
0:20:05 > 0:20:07- Wow.- He had a bowler hat.
0:20:07 > 0:20:09I've found a couple of photos.
0:20:09 > 0:20:12As you can see, you can see
0:20:12 > 0:20:14the hairstyle there, can't you?
0:20:14 > 0:20:16Chiselled features as well.
0:20:16 > 0:20:17Yes.
0:20:18 > 0:20:21- You didn't inherit that, did you?- No.
0:20:21 > 0:20:23I'm older than him there, though.
0:20:23 > 0:20:25Would he have been working in London at that point?
0:20:25 > 0:20:30Yes. He worked in the City, as a broker, as I was too.
0:20:30 > 0:20:31A handsome man.
0:20:31 > 0:20:33- Absolutely.- And there he is...
0:20:34 > 0:20:36..with the lady that started it all for you.
0:20:38 > 0:20:41My nan. Wow, she looks different.
0:20:41 > 0:20:43I can't even recognise her.
0:20:43 > 0:20:46Seriously. It looks like a completely different person.
0:20:46 > 0:20:48Well, how about that picture there?
0:20:50 > 0:20:51Wow.
0:20:53 > 0:20:57You see, I can see her in that a little bit more, that picture.
0:20:57 > 0:20:58You can see there's a glint in her eye there,
0:20:58 > 0:21:01- cos she used to have quite a sense of humour as well.- Yes.
0:21:01 > 0:21:03- A wicked sense of humour, actually. - Yeah.
0:21:05 > 0:21:08This is the certificate of marriage from my mum and dad.
0:21:08 > 0:21:12And I can see Nana's first name here.
0:21:12 > 0:21:13- Edith.- Edith Louise.
0:21:15 > 0:21:19And then Dennis John Manning was a waiter, Nana's father.
0:21:19 > 0:21:23Yes. Apparently he was an Irish waiter.
0:21:23 > 0:21:25I knew that there might be some Irish.
0:21:25 > 0:21:27See, I thought the Davis bit was Irish.
0:21:27 > 0:21:30But it's not that bit, it's Nana's side,
0:21:30 > 0:21:32- the Manning side.- Yes.
0:21:32 > 0:21:34- But do you know any more? - No, I know nothing about him,
0:21:34 > 0:21:37because Mum never really mentioned him,
0:21:37 > 0:21:40never had a conversation about him.
0:21:40 > 0:21:41Did he go back to Ireland?
0:21:41 > 0:21:43Did he disappear? I don't know.
0:21:45 > 0:21:48So I think that is what I have got to do, try and discover
0:21:48 > 0:21:50more about Dennis.
0:21:50 > 0:21:51That would be into the unknown.
0:21:53 > 0:21:54Great.
0:21:56 > 0:21:59Warwick wants to get to the bottom of why his grandmother Edith
0:21:59 > 0:22:02didn't appear to know her father, Dennis John Manning.
0:22:06 > 0:22:08After chatting to my dad yesterday, I don't feel
0:22:08 > 0:22:11particularly enlightened about his side of the family.
0:22:11 > 0:22:13His grandfather, Dennis Manning...
0:22:15 > 0:22:18..there wasn't really anything to say.
0:22:18 > 0:22:20Which is interesting. Cos I was thinking that...
0:22:21 > 0:22:25..my nan, Edith, was born in 1911,
0:22:25 > 0:22:29so the war wasn't far away, and perhaps Dennis, her father,
0:22:29 > 0:22:30was involved somehow in the war,
0:22:30 > 0:22:34and that is why we don't know much about him at this point.
0:22:34 > 0:22:36But, yeah, I'm determined to uncover the mystery of what happened
0:22:36 > 0:22:38to Dennis.
0:22:38 > 0:22:42Warwick is meeting genealogist Olivia Robinson.
0:22:44 > 0:22:48This is the marriage certificate
0:22:48 > 0:22:52for Dennis and your great-grandmother.
0:22:52 > 0:22:57So there we have Dennis John Manning and Lucy Louise Topping,
0:22:57 > 0:23:00getting married in 1903.
0:23:01 > 0:23:02In Lambeth.
0:23:04 > 0:23:05Bachelor and spinster.
0:23:05 > 0:23:08Just checking that, because on the other side of the family,
0:23:08 > 0:23:09there was some shenanigans.
0:23:09 > 0:23:11- It is worth checking.- Yes.
0:23:11 > 0:23:14And Lucy was actually living at this address here.
0:23:14 > 0:23:17It used to be a pub called the Cock and Bottle.
0:23:17 > 0:23:20- China Walk in Lambeth. - Yeah. Which is about...
0:23:20 > 0:23:22- The Cock and Bottle. - ..500 yards in that direction.
0:23:22 > 0:23:24Is that rhyming slang for something else?
0:23:24 > 0:23:26I'm sure you could find something for that.
0:23:26 > 0:23:27So it is not far from here?
0:23:27 > 0:23:29Not far at all. I don't know if you can tell,
0:23:29 > 0:23:33make out, Dennis's occupation at the time of his marriage.
0:23:33 > 0:23:35Let's see. Rank or profession -
0:23:35 > 0:23:37licensed victualler manager.
0:23:37 > 0:23:42Yeah, so he is a manager of a pub, and her address is a pub,
0:23:42 > 0:23:46so she may well have been living in rooms behind the pub or...
0:23:46 > 0:23:49- She could have been the barmaid. - She could have been the barmaid, exactly.
0:23:49 > 0:23:52What I'll show you next perhaps takes us a little bit further
0:23:52 > 0:23:54on in his life.
0:23:56 > 0:24:02So we've got a birth certificate for Dennis John Robert,
0:24:02 > 0:24:04and his father is Dennis John Manning.
0:24:06 > 0:24:07So who's that then?
0:24:07 > 0:24:10I guess if we can call this one Baby Dennis, perhaps.
0:24:11 > 0:24:13We'll go with Baby Dennis then.
0:24:13 > 0:24:16OK, when married - 11th of April 1903,
0:24:16 > 0:24:22and Baby Dennis was born 30th of July 1903.
0:24:22 > 0:24:24They didn't hang about, did they?
0:24:24 > 0:24:26- Yes.- So this is April...
0:24:26 > 0:24:28- Yes, I know!- They were married in April, and they got...
0:24:28 > 0:24:31And it's amazing. It's a very, very quick gestation.
0:24:31 > 0:24:33So, Dennis was unexpected, probably.
0:24:33 > 0:24:37And they thought, "We've got to get married to make this proper."
0:24:37 > 0:24:40It was actually a relatively common occurrence...
0:24:40 > 0:24:41- Was it?- ..for women to be...
0:24:42 > 0:24:45..pregnant at the altar, as it were.
0:24:45 > 0:24:47Somewhere between one in four,
0:24:47 > 0:24:51one in five brides, was already expecting
0:24:51 > 0:24:52at the time of their marriage.
0:24:52 > 0:24:54A lot of rather large wedding dresses...
0:24:54 > 0:24:58In my own life and marriage, a similar thing happened,
0:24:58 > 0:25:01our son was born very shortly after we got married.
0:25:01 > 0:25:03That's extraordinary. What a link.
0:25:03 > 0:25:06- Indeed.- So if we take it on a little bit further now.
0:25:09 > 0:25:12So I've got a death certificate.
0:25:14 > 0:25:15Dennis John Robert Manning.
0:25:15 > 0:25:19Oh, so this is Baby Dennis who died when he was eight months old.
0:25:21 > 0:25:24Of acute tubercular meningitis.
0:25:25 > 0:25:29Eight months old. That must have been really hard for their parents.
0:25:31 > 0:25:35- And it says here that his mum was present at the death.- Yeah.
0:25:40 > 0:25:42I mean...
0:25:42 > 0:25:44For me, I mean, this is...
0:25:44 > 0:25:48We... My wife and I had a baby boy who died
0:25:48 > 0:25:50when he was 11 days old, and...
0:25:50 > 0:25:54So we can understand how this is...
0:25:55 > 0:25:57- How it would have been for these... - Yeah.
0:25:57 > 0:25:59These parents here. But, I mean,
0:25:59 > 0:26:02knowing a child for eight months as well is probably even more
0:26:02 > 0:26:07difficult, because you get to know their character, their personality,
0:26:07 > 0:26:09and then... Yeah, that must have been hard.
0:26:09 > 0:26:12Around about one in seven children
0:26:12 > 0:26:16would have died before they were one, at this time.
0:26:16 > 0:26:19Which is not to deny the trauma that the parents
0:26:19 > 0:26:22would have gone through, but in some ways,
0:26:22 > 0:26:24the community around them, the fact that it was a bit more common,
0:26:24 > 0:26:29it may have been easier for the family to have talked about it,
0:26:29 > 0:26:31to have had a support network, so...
0:26:31 > 0:26:33Yeah, there might have been other people who had had a similar
0:26:33 > 0:26:35- experience not too far away.- Yeah.
0:26:35 > 0:26:38But it is worth saying here that Dennis, the father,
0:26:38 > 0:26:42and Lucy go on to have 11 children in total.
0:26:44 > 0:26:47They lose this child and they lose one other child,
0:26:47 > 0:26:50but nine of their children survive into adulthood.
0:26:50 > 0:26:53- Nine?- Yes. Including Edith.
0:26:53 > 0:26:58- My nan.- Mm-hmm.- So now I know that Dennis had 11 children,
0:26:58 > 0:27:01nine survived and my nan was one of those,
0:27:01 > 0:27:04but I still don't know what happened to Dennis.
0:27:04 > 0:27:08Hopefully, this will give you a clue as to where you may want
0:27:08 > 0:27:10to look next.
0:27:11 > 0:27:16Right. This is a birth certificate of Brian Austin.
0:27:16 > 0:27:18Another one of my nan's brothers.
0:27:18 > 0:27:22- And Dennis, his father at this time, he was a munitions worker.- Yeah.
0:27:23 > 0:27:25So that's to do with the war effort then.
0:27:25 > 0:27:28- Yeah.- So making ammunition.
0:27:28 > 0:27:29Where would he have been doing this?
0:27:29 > 0:27:32For somebody living in south London,
0:27:32 > 0:27:36it's most likely that he would have been involved at Woolwich,
0:27:36 > 0:27:37at the Woolwich Arsenal.
0:27:37 > 0:27:39- Yeah.- Oh, yes, I have heard of that.
0:27:39 > 0:27:42- Yes.- I thought it was a football team.
0:27:42 > 0:27:44Yeah.
0:27:44 > 0:27:47I guess, to find out more, that's where I need to go.
0:27:57 > 0:28:02Thanks to Olivia, I feel I know a little bit more about Dennis.
0:28:03 > 0:28:07And I also feel a certain affinity towards the man because...
0:28:09 > 0:28:13..like me, he lost a baby son when they were very young.
0:28:14 > 0:28:18And so I do feel a connection with him now in that way.
0:28:18 > 0:28:21But I'm on my way to Woolwich Arsenal, which is
0:28:21 > 0:28:25where he was working, helping with the war effort.
0:28:25 > 0:28:28And it begs the question,
0:28:28 > 0:28:30did this...
0:28:30 > 0:28:31contribute to his disappearance?
0:28:35 > 0:28:38By the time Dennis was working at the arsenal in Woolwich,
0:28:38 > 0:28:41it had been manufacturing weapons for over 200 years.
0:28:43 > 0:28:45During the First World War,
0:28:45 > 0:28:49it expanded its operations massively to meet the demand
0:28:49 > 0:28:51from the Western Front for guns and shells.
0:28:56 > 0:29:01At its peak, 80,000 men and women were employed here,
0:29:01 > 0:29:04including Dennis, who, at 42,
0:29:04 > 0:29:06was too old to be conscripted to fight in the war.
0:29:08 > 0:29:12I want to get a sense of what life might have been like working here
0:29:12 > 0:29:14- for someone like Dennis. - It was stressful.
0:29:14 > 0:29:16It was hard work.
0:29:16 > 0:29:21And, in 1915, he would probably be working with cordite or lyddite,
0:29:21 > 0:29:23which were the explosives they used then.
0:29:23 > 0:29:26TNT comes along later.
0:29:26 > 0:29:28They are all quite dangerous.
0:29:28 > 0:29:30TNT is very poisonous.
0:29:30 > 0:29:34And these chemicals made you feel ill.
0:29:34 > 0:29:35They made you giddy and tired.
0:29:35 > 0:29:38They gave you headaches, particularly cordite.
0:29:38 > 0:29:40It gave people very severe headaches.
0:29:40 > 0:29:41My goodness. That's horrendous.
0:29:41 > 0:29:46And we've got an image here of people working with explosives.
0:29:48 > 0:29:51They've got the basic of protective clothing on here,
0:29:51 > 0:29:54they've got gloves on and there is a face mask here as well.
0:29:55 > 0:29:57But, I mean, there's still exposed skin around their wrists
0:29:57 > 0:30:00- and their face and neck.- Yes.
0:30:00 > 0:30:04And it is thought that TNT is absorbed through the skin,
0:30:04 > 0:30:08whereas cordite poisons you through breathing.
0:30:08 > 0:30:11But you notice that some of them don't have masks.
0:30:11 > 0:30:16No. It's mainly the chaps, they are not wearing masks at all, are they?
0:30:16 > 0:30:17Sleeves rolled up.
0:30:18 > 0:30:23Not only did munition workers like Dennis risk being poisoned,
0:30:23 > 0:30:26they also faced another constant threat -
0:30:26 > 0:30:28that the chemicals might explode at any time.
0:30:31 > 0:30:35On top of these hazardous conditions, they worked long shifts,
0:30:35 > 0:30:38often with no days off,
0:30:38 > 0:30:41in the drive to keep Britain's war machine supplied.
0:30:45 > 0:30:49So I'm imagining my great-grandfather having to come
0:30:49 > 0:30:53and work here every day, the stress of the long hours...
0:30:55 > 0:30:58..and the conditions here, and the danger as well,
0:30:58 > 0:31:02but what could have happened to him beyond his work here?
0:31:02 > 0:31:07I mean, the trail is very difficult to follow, and my grandmother...
0:31:07 > 0:31:11She had very little recollection of him, and my dad knew nothing of him,
0:31:11 > 0:31:14so he wasn't a figure that featured in their lives.
0:31:14 > 0:31:16We know that he didn't die here.
0:31:16 > 0:31:18We know that he died somewhere else,
0:31:18 > 0:31:22and we've got a copy of his death certificate
0:31:22 > 0:31:23for you to have a look at.
0:31:26 > 0:31:27So...
0:31:28 > 0:31:31This is dated 1918.
0:31:31 > 0:31:32Dennis John Manning.
0:31:32 > 0:31:34And the cause of death...
0:31:36 > 0:31:39General paralysis.
0:31:39 > 0:31:43Perhaps the way to look further into this is to look at where he died.
0:31:44 > 0:31:45Croydon...
0:31:47 > 0:31:49..mental hospital, does that say?
0:31:50 > 0:31:52Yes, I think it does.
0:31:52 > 0:31:54Oh.
0:31:54 > 0:31:57Because I'm trying to think, you know, how would you end up...
0:31:59 > 0:32:03..in a mental hospital, you know, was there stress involved here?
0:32:03 > 0:32:06Was it to do with working here and the conditions that
0:32:06 > 0:32:08he was working under?
0:32:09 > 0:32:10What happened?
0:32:22 > 0:32:25Warwick has come to Bethlem Museum of the Mind,
0:32:25 > 0:32:29where the records from Croydon Mental Hospital are kept.
0:32:29 > 0:32:32He is meeting psychiatrist Rob Howard.
0:32:35 > 0:32:40So, Rob, here is my great-grandfather's death certificate,
0:32:40 > 0:32:44and on here it is documented that he died at Croydon Mental Hospital.
0:32:46 > 0:32:49So what I am wondering is,
0:32:49 > 0:32:53did the work he was doing at Woolwich Arsenal, you know,
0:32:53 > 0:32:55the stress and the difficult conditions there,
0:32:55 > 0:32:57basically drive him mad?
0:32:57 > 0:33:00OK. So, let's have a look at the records.
0:33:00 > 0:33:02If we go to the entry...
0:33:02 > 0:33:03This is an amazing book.
0:33:03 > 0:33:07Every single patient who came into Croydon Mental Hospital
0:33:07 > 0:33:09would have had an entry.
0:33:10 > 0:33:13- So here we are.- There he is, Dennis John Manning.
0:33:14 > 0:33:16- And...- Let's have a look at the date he was admitted.
0:33:16 > 0:33:1929th of June, is that 1914...?
0:33:19 > 0:33:22- '17.- 1917.
0:33:22 > 0:33:27"Facts indicating insanity observed by myself at time of examination.
0:33:27 > 0:33:31"Can hear ventriloquists talking in the ward,
0:33:31 > 0:33:37"sees imaginary people walking about, memory defective,
0:33:37 > 0:33:39"talks incoherently,
0:33:39 > 0:33:44"no idea of time or place, very resistive at times."
0:33:44 > 0:33:47You can understand exactly why he was brought to a mental health hospital...
0:33:47 > 0:33:50- Absolutely.- ..with those symptoms. But read on,
0:33:50 > 0:33:53cos here's something here about what your great-grandmother reported.
0:33:53 > 0:33:58"His wife, Lucy Manning, 118 Burlington Road, Thornton Heath,
0:33:58 > 0:34:03"says he has been failing mentally for the past two years,
0:34:03 > 0:34:06"he has been violent and has threatened her,
0:34:06 > 0:34:07"and she had to run away from him.
0:34:09 > 0:34:11"Says men are in the house with her...
0:34:13 > 0:34:18"..attacked her violently, and she had to call in the police."
0:34:18 > 0:34:22So it sounds like she had a terrible time, dealing with him, having to call the police.
0:34:22 > 0:34:26- It's a terrible situation all round, isn't it?- Mmm.
0:34:26 > 0:34:29And so, bringing him to hospital was obviously the thing to do.
0:34:29 > 0:34:31It was a place of safety for him, it was safety for her.
0:34:31 > 0:34:35But then, this is her husband, let's not forget, somebody she loved,
0:34:35 > 0:34:41somebody she had children with, and then to have to basically report him
0:34:41 > 0:34:46mentally ill, and knowing that that would mean he would be taken away,
0:34:46 > 0:34:49you know, in spite of the fact that he was violent and threatening,
0:34:49 > 0:34:51but a difficult decision for her at the same time.
0:34:51 > 0:34:55But here she actually gives what she thinks has caused
0:34:55 > 0:34:57his mental health difficulties.
0:34:57 > 0:35:03"I consider long hours of work and smell arising from such work
0:35:03 > 0:35:06"which made his head ache."
0:35:06 > 0:35:07Now, that's interesting.
0:35:07 > 0:35:10- Cordite.- Mm-hmm. So it is clear what she thinks has caused the problem.
0:35:10 > 0:35:14But cordite isn't the cause of general paralysis.
0:35:14 > 0:35:15Goodness me.
0:35:15 > 0:35:19He now admits that he was, for some time, before he was 21,
0:35:19 > 0:35:21suffering from syphilis.
0:35:22 > 0:35:25For which he was treated at the Lock Hospital in London.
0:35:27 > 0:35:29Right. So I know what that is.
0:35:31 > 0:35:33And that...
0:35:33 > 0:35:36That virus, could that then cause other things?
0:35:36 > 0:35:40So, yeah. Syphilis is a complicated infection.
0:35:40 > 0:35:42Unfortunately, in a proportion of cases,
0:35:42 > 0:35:47the germ stays in your body and manifests later, and it results,
0:35:47 > 0:35:50I'm afraid, in these horrible central nervous system
0:35:50 > 0:35:54manifestations, as well as affecting the heart and the great blood vessels.
0:35:54 > 0:35:59So, general paralysis, general paralysis of the insane,
0:35:59 > 0:36:03as it was fully called, was actually a manifestation of syphilis.
0:36:03 > 0:36:08So then this concludes that his mental illness
0:36:08 > 0:36:13and his ultimate death had no connection with the work
0:36:13 > 0:36:16he was doing at Woolwich Arsenal.
0:36:16 > 0:36:19I think that's right. But there's something else very interesting
0:36:19 > 0:36:22in his records, it tells us something about his character.
0:36:22 > 0:36:23Just read from here, Warwick.
0:36:23 > 0:36:29"He thought, after that, he had better not marry for some time.
0:36:29 > 0:36:32"As a matter of fact, he did not marry until he was 31."
0:36:32 > 0:36:35So he waited at least ten years after he had been infected,
0:36:35 > 0:36:38- before he got married.- Wow.
0:36:38 > 0:36:40Which would have been unusual at that period,
0:36:40 > 0:36:44but no doubt that was motivated by his not wishing to pass on...
0:36:44 > 0:36:45He was doing the right thing there,
0:36:45 > 0:36:48- wasn't he?- Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
0:36:48 > 0:36:50Well, it's certainly not the...
0:36:51 > 0:36:54Not the reason I thought he was going to be here.
0:36:54 > 0:36:57I was convinced it was going to be connected to his work at...
0:36:58 > 0:37:01..Woolwich Arsenal and the chemicals or the stress
0:37:01 > 0:37:04that workers were under.
0:37:04 > 0:37:07And it's interesting that your great-grandmother thought that.
0:37:07 > 0:37:11But, I mean, it's good to see he was being very responsible about it,
0:37:11 > 0:37:12- you know...- I think that's right.
0:37:12 > 0:37:15- He comes out well, doesn't he, really?- Yeah.
0:37:15 > 0:37:18Or his reputation does - it didn't end well for him, though, did it?
0:37:18 > 0:37:20- No.- I mean, it's...
0:37:20 > 0:37:22It couldn't have been a more tragic...
0:37:23 > 0:37:26..story, or ending to the story.
0:37:26 > 0:37:27- I think that's right.- It's...
0:37:28 > 0:37:31You know, what a way to go, honestly.
0:37:37 > 0:37:40Dennis died when he was 46, which is my age.
0:37:42 > 0:37:45And I feel relatively young, so...
0:37:45 > 0:37:47It's no time to go, is it?
0:37:49 > 0:37:54My nan, Edith, was only six years old when he died a tragic death.
0:37:54 > 0:37:57And I think this gives us the answer as to why
0:37:57 > 0:37:59she didn't know her father.
0:38:01 > 0:38:04I think there would have been a certain amount of shame
0:38:04 > 0:38:08associated with a relative being in an asylum,
0:38:08 > 0:38:11so it probably wouldn't really have been talked about.
0:38:11 > 0:38:12Which is really sad.
0:38:14 > 0:38:18And it's sad that I can't tell my nan, because she is no longer here.
0:38:24 > 0:38:27Having solved the mystery of what happened to his grandmother Edith's
0:38:27 > 0:38:30father, Dennis John Manning,
0:38:30 > 0:38:33Warwick has one more thing he wants to discover about the Mannings.
0:38:35 > 0:38:38His father told him that Dennis was Irish.
0:38:38 > 0:38:41To find out if he really does have any Irish ancestry,
0:38:41 > 0:38:44Warwick is meeting historian Graham Davis.
0:38:46 > 0:38:49So Graham, can the Mannings be traced back to Ireland?
0:38:49 > 0:38:54Well, we know that your great-great-great-grandparents,
0:38:54 > 0:38:55Owen and Margaret,
0:38:55 > 0:39:02lived, in 1851, in this little street, Maidstone Street,
0:39:02 > 0:39:05off the main thoroughfare there, in London,
0:39:05 > 0:39:09on the fringes of London actually, as it was then, and we can...
0:39:10 > 0:39:13..look at the census of 1851, the same year,
0:39:13 > 0:39:18to see the family recorded in that house in Maidstone Street.
0:39:18 > 0:39:23So I'm seeing Manning here, Owen Manning, living at number 22,
0:39:23 > 0:39:25the head of the household.
0:39:26 > 0:39:28And he was a labourer.
0:39:30 > 0:39:32And, where born?
0:39:32 > 0:39:33Ireland.
0:39:35 > 0:39:37So there is Irish ancestry.
0:39:37 > 0:39:41Definitely. And if you look at his wife Margaret.
0:39:41 > 0:39:44There she is, there's Margaret - wife. And she's from...
0:39:45 > 0:39:47County Longford.
0:39:47 > 0:39:49That's in Leinster province.
0:39:49 > 0:39:53So I'm slightly intrigued as to why Owen and Margaret came over
0:39:53 > 0:39:56to this country. Is this another famine story? Where they...?
0:39:56 > 0:39:59No, no. If you look at the dates,
0:39:59 > 0:40:05your great-great-great-grandparents must have come across in the 1820s,
0:40:05 > 0:40:09long before the famine, which starts in 1845 through to '52.
0:40:09 > 0:40:13So if they were planning a family at this point, they might have thought,
0:40:13 > 0:40:17"Actually, let's move now and then we'll be in a better position
0:40:17 > 0:40:19- "to support..."- Yes. London wages were better.
0:40:19 > 0:40:21There were more opportunities.
0:40:21 > 0:40:24And also, not only could they earn more money,
0:40:24 > 0:40:28there were opportunities for the children and they
0:40:28 > 0:40:31could get schooling, which they couldn't do in Ireland.
0:40:31 > 0:40:32So with this in mind...
0:40:34 > 0:40:37..how much Irishness is in me now?
0:40:37 > 0:40:40- Well, that's difficult to know. - A little tiny bit.- A little bit.
0:40:40 > 0:40:42- A little finger perhaps. - I think a little bit.
0:40:42 > 0:40:47And another little sort of Irish connection is that I have played
0:40:47 > 0:40:50leprechauns in seven different films in my career.
0:40:50 > 0:40:53- Really?- Yes. I've got a very dodgy Irish accent but I'm not
0:40:53 > 0:40:55going to do it for you now.
0:40:55 > 0:40:58Warwick has confirmed he does have Irish roots,
0:40:58 > 0:41:01thanks to his great-great-great-grandparents,
0:41:01 > 0:41:02Owen and Margaret Manning.
0:41:04 > 0:41:07And he has already discovered the sad fate of their grandson,
0:41:07 > 0:41:10Dennis John Manning, who died of syphilis.
0:41:10 > 0:41:13But he knows nothing about the man who links them,
0:41:13 > 0:41:17his great-great-grandfather, also called Dennis.
0:41:19 > 0:41:23Now, the person I'm most interested in finding out more about is my
0:41:23 > 0:41:27great-great-grandfather, Dennis here, who at this point was 17,
0:41:27 > 0:41:29a labourer like his father.
0:41:29 > 0:41:31- Yes.- What happened next?
0:41:31 > 0:41:35Well, we do have the census of 1881.
0:41:35 > 0:41:3630 years on.
0:41:36 > 0:41:40And here you will find Dennis again.
0:41:40 > 0:41:46Right, this is Dennis, the head of the household here, who is now 48.
0:41:46 > 0:41:48- Mm-hmm.- He is a musician.
0:41:48 > 0:41:50- Yes.- Wow.
0:41:50 > 0:41:53- That's cool.- Yes.
0:41:53 > 0:41:54Musician stands out, doesn't it?
0:41:54 > 0:41:56- It does.- I mean, could you make a living being a musician?
0:41:56 > 0:42:01Well, we do have some information about what he's up to, Dennis.
0:42:01 > 0:42:04Now, this is from the Northampton Mercury.
0:42:05 > 0:42:0812th of June 1858.
0:42:08 > 0:42:09Entertainment.
0:42:09 > 0:42:13"Pell's American Opera Troupe gave an entertainment at the Town Hall
0:42:13 > 0:42:18"on Wednesday week. The troupe consists of Messrs GW Pell,
0:42:18 > 0:42:23"the original Bones, D Manning, that's Dennis, violinist.
0:42:23 > 0:42:26"HW Page, solo banjoist."
0:42:26 > 0:42:27Etc, etc, etc.
0:42:27 > 0:42:30"The performances on the violin and banjo were good."
0:42:30 > 0:42:32So he got a good review there.
0:42:32 > 0:42:34- Yeah.- "And elicited applause.
0:42:35 > 0:42:37"The assembly was not large."
0:42:37 > 0:42:40- No.- Not a great crowd, but they applauded loudly.
0:42:40 > 0:42:42- But they did well. Yes.- That's good.
0:42:42 > 0:42:45So we now know that Dennis is a violinist.
0:42:45 > 0:42:49Mmm. So he was playing with Pell's American Opera Troupe.
0:42:49 > 0:42:52But there is a banjo involved here as well,
0:42:52 > 0:42:54so it must have been quite an unusual sort of opera.
0:42:54 > 0:42:58Perhaps a... A trip to Northampton.
0:42:58 > 0:43:00Of course, the Northampton Mercury.
0:43:00 > 0:43:01- Yeah.- Absolutely.
0:43:05 > 0:43:07You know, when I started out on this journey,
0:43:07 > 0:43:11I was convinced I wasn't going to find any other performers,
0:43:11 > 0:43:13but lo and behold there is one.
0:43:14 > 0:43:16I'm excited to find out more, actually,
0:43:16 > 0:43:20and just kind of learn what sort of music he was playing
0:43:20 > 0:43:22and how accomplished he became.
0:43:29 > 0:43:33Warwick's come to the Guild Hall in Northampton to meet Rachel Cowgill,
0:43:33 > 0:43:36who has been looking into the musical career
0:43:36 > 0:43:38of his great-great-grandfather, Dennis Manning.
0:43:43 > 0:43:47So, Rachel, I have here a review of Pell's American Opera Troupe...
0:43:47 > 0:43:49- Yep.- ..of which my great-great-grandfather,
0:43:49 > 0:43:52Dennis Manning, was a member, in fact violinist.
0:43:52 > 0:43:55So I'm intrigued, who were Pell's American Opera Troupe,
0:43:55 > 0:43:58and what sort of music did they play?
0:43:58 > 0:44:04Well, they were a group of American musicians that were touring the UK, 1858-59.
0:44:04 > 0:44:08Pell was an impresario, he recruited musicians in America,
0:44:08 > 0:44:11brought them with him, but also, we think en route,
0:44:11 > 0:44:14picked up one or two talented musicians to join the ensemble.
0:44:14 > 0:44:16So they might have needed a violinist,
0:44:16 > 0:44:19and my great-great-grandfather fitted the bill.
0:44:19 > 0:44:23Presumably they met up with him at some point and were really impressed, sufficiently to invite
0:44:23 > 0:44:26him to join what was actually quite a small ensemble, a small group.
0:44:26 > 0:44:28Right. I mean, what type of music was it?
0:44:28 > 0:44:31I mean, did they play opera or...?
0:44:31 > 0:44:33They did include opera in their performances,
0:44:33 > 0:44:36but it tended to be a sort of parody, sort of slightly mocking,
0:44:36 > 0:44:39but at the same time, with this type of performance,
0:44:39 > 0:44:42they blended it with comedy and physical humour and dance,
0:44:42 > 0:44:44and it was a real mixed bag, a real variety of staff.
0:44:44 > 0:44:46- A real variety show.- Yes.
0:44:46 > 0:44:48I'd love to see it. I mean, it sounds fantastic.
0:44:48 > 0:44:50To discover that, you know, in my ancestry,
0:44:50 > 0:44:54there is a history of performance, in particular comedy,
0:44:54 > 0:44:57perhaps some slapstick, it's great.
0:44:57 > 0:44:59- Yeah.- It's great to discover that.
0:44:59 > 0:45:02So this is another document you might find very interesting.
0:45:02 > 0:45:03I love these playbills.
0:45:03 > 0:45:07- Yeah.- Fantastic, from the Music Hall in Shrewsbury.
0:45:07 > 0:45:10"Grand Fashionable American Entertainments."
0:45:10 > 0:45:12- Yes.- I love it, "Entertainments," plural, there.
0:45:12 > 0:45:17So, "A reunion of celebrated and original American minstrels."
0:45:17 > 0:45:21And we've got, "The Real Delineators of Ethiopian character."
0:45:21 > 0:45:24And then we've got Pell, during his stay at St James's Theatre
0:45:24 > 0:45:27had the honour of performing in the presence
0:45:27 > 0:45:30of her most gracious majesty, the Queen.
0:45:30 > 0:45:32- Indeed, yeah.- Wow.
0:45:32 > 0:45:35- Yeah.- So I'm looking at this, the minstrels,
0:45:35 > 0:45:37were they the top of the bill here?
0:45:37 > 0:45:39Or, or... Pell?
0:45:40 > 0:45:43- Uh...- What do you reckon?- But the American minstrels and Pell's
0:45:43 > 0:45:45opera troupe are one and the same.
0:45:45 > 0:45:47This is all referring to their performance.
0:45:47 > 0:45:48- Wow.- So...
0:45:51 > 0:45:53Opening chorus, "Happy are we..."
0:45:54 > 0:45:56I'm not going to say that.
0:45:56 > 0:45:58- Yeah.- I can't. I mean, obviously this is of a time.
0:45:58 > 0:46:00Yes. Absolutely.
0:46:01 > 0:46:02With this style of performance,
0:46:02 > 0:46:05we have a real difficulty from a 21st-century perspective,
0:46:05 > 0:46:07looking at the terminology.
0:46:07 > 0:46:10- There's all sorts of instances on here, aren't there?- Yeah.- Yeah.
0:46:10 > 0:46:12MUSIC: Miss Lucy Long
0:46:12 > 0:46:15Minstrel shows originally came from America.
0:46:16 > 0:46:20Over there, blacked up performers presented an often bawdy
0:46:20 > 0:46:25and demeaning parody of African-American songs and manners.
0:46:25 > 0:46:28The version that developed in Britain was aimed at a more
0:46:28 > 0:46:31respectable family audience.
0:46:32 > 0:46:36But the minstrels carried on presenting racial caricatures
0:46:36 > 0:46:37in their shows.
0:46:40 > 0:46:42So does this mean that my great-great-grandfather Dennis
0:46:42 > 0:46:46- blacked up at some point? - Yes, he did.
0:46:46 > 0:46:48He would have been part of the ensemble performance,
0:46:48 > 0:46:52they all blacked up at this point, so that's very difficult for us now.
0:46:54 > 0:46:56Yeah.
0:46:56 > 0:46:59I think it's fascinating, the range of materials you have here.
0:46:59 > 0:47:03Is there anything of my great-great-grandfather at all?
0:47:03 > 0:47:05There is. There is.
0:47:05 > 0:47:09There is an image, it's very fuzzy, but it's something at least,
0:47:09 > 0:47:13and I'll just show this to you.
0:47:13 > 0:47:14This is...
0:47:15 > 0:47:17..a newspaper article.
0:47:19 > 0:47:23Again, some of this text is similar to what we have just seen.
0:47:23 > 0:47:24Right in the middle there,
0:47:24 > 0:47:29you've got a representation of Pell's American Opera Troupe.
0:47:29 > 0:47:35- Now, it's not a passport photo, is it?- It's not, it's fuzzy, but you can see in the middle there...
0:47:35 > 0:47:36- There is a violinist. - There is a violinist.
0:47:36 > 0:47:39He is right in the middle of that ensemble.
0:47:39 > 0:47:42- He is, isn't he? Yeah. He's right in the middle.- Centre-stage.
0:47:42 > 0:47:47And this was at the Atheneum Lecture Hall, Bury St Edmunds.
0:47:47 > 0:47:49Positively for two nights only.
0:47:50 > 0:47:53- If you miss it... - That's it, it's gone.
0:47:53 > 0:47:54Maybe.
0:47:55 > 0:47:57It's fabulous, isn't it?
0:47:58 > 0:47:59What an amazing discovery.
0:48:14 > 0:48:18It was a bit of a shock when I first discovered exactly the sort of
0:48:18 > 0:48:20musician that Dennis was.
0:48:20 > 0:48:23I don't really know quite how to feel about it at this point.
0:48:23 > 0:48:28It's... On one hand, it kind of amuses me, because I'm thinking,
0:48:28 > 0:48:31"Yeah, that's what it was back then."
0:48:31 > 0:48:34But on the other hand, I'm almost slightly horrified by it.
0:48:36 > 0:48:39We've kind of started to learn about Dennis and the fact that he was
0:48:39 > 0:48:42a violinist and he went on tour, and I was thinking,
0:48:42 > 0:48:44"Yes, this is terrific."
0:48:44 > 0:48:47And then that was the bombshell right there, wasn't it?
0:48:51 > 0:48:52Bigamy, syphilis...
0:48:54 > 0:48:56..blacking up as a minstrel.
0:48:57 > 0:48:58It's quite a variety...
0:49:01 > 0:49:02..of ancestry.
0:49:10 > 0:49:13Warwick has come to meet music historian Derek Scott
0:49:13 > 0:49:18at the Atheneum in Bury St Edmunds, where Dennis Manning performed
0:49:18 > 0:49:21with Pell's American Opera Troupe in 1858.
0:49:24 > 0:49:27Dennis Manning, my great-great-grandfather ,
0:49:27 > 0:49:29he was the son of an Irish labourer.
0:49:29 > 0:49:33So how does he end up playing music of this type?
0:49:33 > 0:49:36The thing is how does he get from Irish music
0:49:36 > 0:49:39into African-American music?
0:49:39 > 0:49:45And there are a surprising number of links, both socially and culturally.
0:49:45 > 0:49:47In New York,
0:49:47 > 0:49:51you'd have adjacent neighbourhoods of free black Americans
0:49:51 > 0:49:53and poor Irish,
0:49:53 > 0:49:57so there is some linking there, but musically, too,
0:49:57 > 0:50:02if I play you a typical popular minstrel song of the period...
0:50:02 > 0:50:06# The Camptown ladies sing this song, doo-dah, doo-dah
0:50:06 > 0:50:11# The Camptown racetrack five miles long, oh, doo-dah day. #
0:50:11 > 0:50:13You can see, to make that into a real...
0:50:13 > 0:50:15I'd only really have to do something like this.
0:50:21 > 0:50:22That's amazing.
0:50:22 > 0:50:24And it's suddenly a different style.
0:50:24 > 0:50:28Yeah, it is. And they are not poles apart at all, are they?
0:50:28 > 0:50:29No, not really.
0:50:29 > 0:50:34What makes it African-American is it has a device called
0:50:34 > 0:50:37call and response.
0:50:37 > 0:50:39You've got the one bit like that, and then the...
0:50:39 > 0:50:40# Doo-dah, doo-dah... #
0:50:40 > 0:50:43I don't know how you are on doo-dahs, do you want to...?
0:50:43 > 0:50:44- I'm not bad at a doo-dah.- If I do...
0:50:44 > 0:50:47If you are accomplished with doo-dahs...?
0:50:47 > 0:50:51- I'll try the narrative bit and you do the...- I'll get ready for a doo-dah, yeah.- Right.- OK.- So...
0:50:51 > 0:50:56- # The Camptown ladies sing this song.- Doo-dah, doo-dah.
0:50:56 > 0:51:00- # The Camptown racetrack five miles long.- Doo-dah, doo-dah day. #
0:51:00 > 0:51:04- I don't know whether I did that right.- But that's right. It's a throwing it to and fro.- Yeah.
0:51:04 > 0:51:09So there is a kind of influence from the African-American side
0:51:09 > 0:51:13into Irish music, and from Irish music into African-American music.
0:51:13 > 0:51:16Now, we know that Dennis played the violin
0:51:16 > 0:51:20in a very successful touring group.
0:51:20 > 0:51:21Is that what he did throughout his career?
0:51:21 > 0:51:26If I show you something a little later on, from the era,
0:51:26 > 0:51:28right down the bottom there,
0:51:28 > 0:51:31you'll find comments on what he is doing later.
0:51:31 > 0:51:34This is an important notice to concert hall proprietors.
0:51:34 > 0:51:38"Mr D Manning, late musical director of Pell's Opera Troupe."
0:51:38 > 0:51:42- So he was musical director? - Yes, that's right.
0:51:42 > 0:51:45"Sentimental vocalist, guitarist, and solo violinist."
0:51:45 > 0:51:47Yeah, notice that.
0:51:47 > 0:51:49It is not just violinist now, is it?
0:51:49 > 0:51:53It isn't. Sentimental vocalist, what does that mean in musical terms?
0:51:53 > 0:51:59Even in the '50s, minstrels were playing some sentimental songs.
0:51:59 > 0:52:02One of the great favourites of your great-great-grandfather's troupe
0:52:02 > 0:52:05was the Hazel Dell.
0:52:05 > 0:52:14# All alone my watch I'm keeping, in the Hazel Dell
0:52:15 > 0:52:21# For my darling Nelly's near me sleeping
0:52:21 > 0:52:26# Nelly, dear, farewell. #
0:52:26 > 0:52:29- Oh, dear.- Warwick, you've sung, haven't you?
0:52:29 > 0:52:34- I'm sure I've seen you in performances singing. - Not as well as you, sir.
0:52:34 > 0:52:36- That's lovely. - Is there any chance...?
0:52:36 > 0:52:38Lovely. Very sentimental.
0:52:38 > 0:52:41I am trying to divert you away from asking me to sing.
0:52:41 > 0:52:42Do not ask me to sing.
0:52:42 > 0:52:44I'm just wondering...
0:52:44 > 0:52:48To join me in the chorus on this.
0:52:48 > 0:52:50Without the tears rolling down you.
0:52:50 > 0:52:52I don't know the words.
0:52:52 > 0:52:54- Well, as it happens...- Oh, no!
0:52:56 > 0:52:59By amazing coincidence...
0:52:59 > 0:53:02- Oh, Derek.- .. I have some words.
0:53:02 > 0:53:06Yeah, OK. So I've just got to join in with this bit here?
0:53:06 > 0:53:09- Yeah? Just the chorus. - Yes, just the chorus.
0:53:09 > 0:53:11But you must sing as well, don't stop, none of that.
0:53:11 > 0:53:12- OK.- All right.
0:53:12 > 0:53:15- Shall we try just the, "all alone...?"- Yeah, yeah.
0:53:15 > 0:53:25BOTH: # All alone my watch I'm keeping, in the Hazel Dell
0:53:25 > 0:53:31# For my darling Nelly's near me sleeping
0:53:31 > 0:53:36# Nelly, dear, farewell. #
0:53:38 > 0:53:42It's lovely. And that is quite touching to think that my
0:53:42 > 0:53:45great-great-grandfather Dennis would have sung that as well,
0:53:45 > 0:53:47- and now I can sing it.- Now you...
0:53:47 > 0:53:52But the last document we have has to be the death certificate.
0:53:52 > 0:53:53I'll let you see it.
0:53:53 > 0:53:57I've seen a fair number of these on my travels over the last few days.
0:53:57 > 0:53:591890.
0:53:59 > 0:54:03Dennis Manning, died at 52.
0:54:03 > 0:54:08- Oh, dear.- If you look at the address he's living at - 6 Betterton Street.
0:54:08 > 0:54:10This is in the Covent Garden area.
0:54:10 > 0:54:15We know that number six was actually a boarding house that was licensed
0:54:15 > 0:54:19for 95 borders.
0:54:19 > 0:54:2095?
0:54:20 > 0:54:22Unfortunately, it does look as if...
0:54:24 > 0:54:29..Dennis Manning was on his uppers when he died.
0:54:31 > 0:54:32From the great days...
0:54:32 > 0:54:35I hate to end on this kind of note for you.
0:54:35 > 0:54:40Well, the journey was lovely. His story was inspiring and enjoyable.
0:54:40 > 0:54:43But kind of ended too soon, in a way.
0:54:43 > 0:54:45And not particularly happily, obviously, for him.
0:54:45 > 0:54:48You'd think he'd be at the peak of his career.
0:54:48 > 0:54:51Yes. Yes, you would, wouldn't you?
0:54:51 > 0:54:55It's just a lesson in the insecurity of the life of an artist.
0:54:55 > 0:54:57Well, it's one that I know very well as an actor myself.
0:54:57 > 0:55:00You know, you can never take this business for granted,
0:55:00 > 0:55:02and you have to have a plan B.
0:55:02 > 0:55:04Dennis, I don't think had a plan B.
0:55:04 > 0:55:06There you are, the insecurity of the musician.
0:55:06 > 0:55:07Absolutely.
0:55:16 > 0:55:19Warwick's come to the ballroom at the Athenaeum,
0:55:19 > 0:55:22where his great-great-grandfather, Dennis Manning,
0:55:22 > 0:55:25performed more than 150 years earlier.
0:55:26 > 0:55:31It's lovely to actually be somewhere that one of my ancestors
0:55:31 > 0:55:32actually was.
0:55:38 > 0:55:39To think that Dennis...
0:55:40 > 0:55:43..was in this very room,
0:55:43 > 0:55:46doing what he loved doing, entertaining people.
0:55:47 > 0:55:50That's a really lovely feeling.
0:55:53 > 0:55:56And I'm just enjoying being here,
0:55:56 > 0:55:58and kind of soaking the atmosphere up.
0:56:05 > 0:56:08Part of me feels slightly guilty,
0:56:08 > 0:56:12having unearthed all of these family secrets.
0:56:14 > 0:56:17I'm sort of imagining my ancestors looking down, saying,
0:56:17 > 0:56:21"Who do you think you are? Unearthing all our secrets,
0:56:21 > 0:56:22"telling the world."
0:56:27 > 0:56:29The thing that strikes me about their stories is there was
0:56:29 > 0:56:34always a struggle, there was always a fight and a determination in them.
0:56:35 > 0:56:36And I've got that as well.
0:56:36 > 0:56:41I've got a determination to succeed and to get through life
0:56:41 > 0:56:43in the best way possible,
0:56:43 > 0:56:45and do things the right way as well.
0:56:47 > 0:56:49So I've got a great deal of respect for...
0:56:50 > 0:56:53..all of the people in the stories that I've told.