0:00:05 > 0:00:11The chemistry and the ingredients between my brothers was absolutely essential.
0:00:11 > 0:00:15And if I had to do it all over again, it would only be with Barry and Maurice.
0:00:15 > 0:00:19MUSIC: "Night Fever"
0:00:28 > 0:00:34Robin Gibb, with his brothers Barry and Maurice made up the legendary band The Bee Gees.
0:00:37 > 0:00:43They've sold over 200 million records and their music has made them multi-millionaires.
0:00:43 > 0:00:48We had a huge song catalogue and been very successful,
0:00:48 > 0:00:52but we've never really become Hollywood-ised.
0:00:54 > 0:00:57I like being a down-to-earth kind of guy.
0:00:57 > 0:01:01I've always loved history.
0:01:01 > 0:01:05Ever since I was a child, it was my favourite subject at school.
0:01:05 > 0:01:09I'm looking forward to finding out about my family history intensely.
0:01:15 > 0:01:21I think the traits that run through the, er, Gibb family is this need not to conform.
0:01:21 > 0:01:25That spirit of saying, yes, to everybody's no and,
0:01:25 > 0:01:26and not being like everyone else.
0:01:26 > 0:01:29I think I'd like to find out where that actually began.
0:01:29 > 0:01:33I think a lot of people worry about well, maybe somebody was mad.
0:01:33 > 0:01:38I don't worry about finding out if someone's crazy or not cos I'm already mad!
0:02:16 > 0:02:19Robin lives on a 20-acre estate in Oxfordshire,
0:02:19 > 0:02:24in a converted medieval monastery that he shares with his wife Dwina and son RJ.
0:02:27 > 0:02:30He came from modest beginnings.
0:02:30 > 0:02:38He and his twin brother Maurice were born in 1949 into a working-class family on the Isle of Man.
0:02:38 > 0:02:42I know that... I know this is me and Maurice here in this, in the pram here.
0:02:42 > 0:02:44Whereabouts is it? Do you know where it is?
0:02:44 > 0:02:48- Yeah, Isle of Man.- Yeah, but do you know whereabouts on it? - Some back alley!
0:02:48 > 0:02:53No, I can always remember my mother as she was pushing this pram
0:02:53 > 0:02:57- saying, "If you don't behave, I'm going to give you away."- Oh, dear.
0:02:57 > 0:03:00To sell me to the woman next door, that was it, yeah.
0:03:00 > 0:03:02Anyway, it silenced us.
0:03:02 > 0:03:06Robin lost his twin brother eight years ago,
0:03:06 > 0:03:11when Maurice died suddenly from complications arising from surgery.
0:03:11 > 0:03:14He was more than a brother, he was a soul mate.
0:03:14 > 0:03:19There are times when I can't believe that he's not in the world any more.
0:03:19 > 0:03:24But Maurice will always be in our lives because he's part of us.
0:03:24 > 0:03:27My favourite picture of my dad, it's got to be this one,
0:03:27 > 0:03:32where he's on the drums, because he did have a band on the Isle of Man
0:03:32 > 0:03:34for about, you know, ten years.
0:03:34 > 0:03:40I don't know much about my ancestry, but there's this military thread that runs through.
0:03:41 > 0:03:44This one I think is Matthew, it says on the back.
0:03:44 > 0:03:48He's my grandfather's father and he died...
0:03:48 > 0:03:51- What did he do?- ..in his 70s. Mathew was a military man.
0:03:51 > 0:03:54I think I'd like to know more about him
0:03:54 > 0:03:57because my father never really spoke much about him.
0:03:57 > 0:04:01- No.- And yet he must have met him.
0:04:08 > 0:04:12Robin's keen to find out more about Matthew Gibb's Army career.
0:04:12 > 0:04:16He's arranged a meeting in London with his cousin Anne Bracegirdle,
0:04:16 > 0:04:18Matthew's last surviving grandchild.
0:04:21 > 0:04:25I'm meeting Anne, er, who is the granddaughter of Matthew Gibb
0:04:25 > 0:04:27who was my great-grandfather.
0:04:27 > 0:04:33So, in essence it's quite interesting because having just an old
0:04:33 > 0:04:35photograph to go by, I know very little.
0:04:35 > 0:04:40- Good morning, Madame, how are you today?- Thank you. Very well, thank you.
0:04:40 > 0:04:43- Let me help you. - Thank you very much.- All right.
0:04:43 > 0:04:45Hi, Robin. Pleased to meet you.
0:04:45 > 0:04:48- Hello. Are you Anne? - Yes. After all these years!
0:04:48 > 0:04:51- Lovely to see you.- Can you believe it?!- Unbelievable.
0:04:57 > 0:04:59You've got some photographs here.
0:04:59 > 0:05:04Oh, yes, but they're pretty ancient and not terribly good.
0:05:04 > 0:05:05This is a photograph of your great-grandfather.
0:05:05 > 0:05:08Yeah. That's Matthew.
0:05:08 > 0:05:12And Matthew's wife Mary James - and that's my father.
0:05:12 > 0:05:14That's Charles, is it?
0:05:14 > 0:05:15Yes, that's Charles.
0:05:15 > 0:05:22- So you want to know some more about your great-grandfather.- Yeah.
0:05:22 > 0:05:25Um, my cousin got this from the Scottish Records Office.
0:05:25 > 0:05:30I understand that he was from Paisley in Scotland.
0:05:30 > 0:05:36- He enlisted in 1867, so I worked out he'd be 18, wouldn't he?- Yes.
0:05:36 > 0:05:41When he enlisted he was at home first of all and then he went to
0:05:41 > 0:05:46India in 1867 and then to Afghanistan, 1881.
0:05:46 > 0:05:48He got around a bit, didn't he?
0:05:48 > 0:05:53- He did. He was abroad for, er, virtually 15 years.- Yeah.
0:05:53 > 0:05:55He did get some medals.
0:05:55 > 0:05:58See, he's got a Long Service and Good Conduct medal and, um,
0:05:58 > 0:06:01that medal there, for Afghanistan.
0:06:01 > 0:06:04Oh, that's wonderful.
0:06:04 > 0:06:06So, obviously he was good soldier.
0:06:06 > 0:06:12But also, an amusing anecdote is the fact that in 1874,
0:06:12 > 0:06:16when he was serving in India, he was arrested for drunkenness,
0:06:16 > 0:06:21tried and reduced in rank from corporal back to private.
0:06:21 > 0:06:23- That's interesting.- Yes.
0:06:25 > 0:06:28It fascinates me that because three of his sons,
0:06:28 > 0:06:33Uncle Matt, Uncle Willie and my father, were all teetotal.
0:06:33 > 0:06:37Yeah. I'd like to know more about the situation that got, caused him
0:06:37 > 0:06:41to be demoted, because it's hard to believe just being drunk alone.
0:06:41 > 0:06:44There must have been something else. I'm not saying something ghastly.
0:06:44 > 0:06:48He may not have been a heavy drinker. It may have just been...
0:06:48 > 0:06:51- No. A one-off! - ..a one-off situation.- Absolutely.
0:06:51 > 0:06:57It appears out of character because when you see a photograph of him,
0:06:57 > 0:07:00he looks quite stern and, um, you know, rigid.
0:07:10 > 0:07:13Robin's going to Winchester to see what he can find out at
0:07:13 > 0:07:18the headquarters of Matthew's regiment, the 60th Rifles.
0:07:23 > 0:07:27Military historian Andy Robertshaw has a acquired a copy of Matthew's
0:07:27 > 0:07:31service record, which details every stage of his Army career.
0:07:31 > 0:07:36That page there is actually his Attestation Paper.
0:07:36 > 0:07:40That's filled in when he joins the Army on the 1st July, 1867.
0:07:40 > 0:07:46And below it then is everything that there is that tells you where he leaves the Army.
0:07:46 > 0:07:48Actually, it tells you more about his age.
0:07:48 > 0:07:51This one, where he is in the world -
0:07:51 > 0:07:55home, India, Afghanistan, Mari County, India generally,
0:07:55 > 0:07:58South Africa, then back home.
0:07:58 > 0:08:01So his first port of call, he was actually sent to India?
0:08:01 > 0:08:03That's right. So he's part of the garrison of India,
0:08:03 > 0:08:06he's what's called a BOR, British Other Rank in an army
0:08:06 > 0:08:09that's very largely recruited from Indian soldiers,
0:08:09 > 0:08:14and he's part of that small minority of white soldiers who are in the cantonments
0:08:14 > 0:08:17all over India, waiting to be called in case there's a campaign.
0:08:20 > 0:08:25When Matthew began his tour of duty in 1867, India was the largest
0:08:25 > 0:08:29and most important colonial territory in the British Empire.
0:08:30 > 0:08:33The Army acted as a vast Imperial Police Force,
0:08:33 > 0:08:37maintaining British interests in the region.
0:08:37 > 0:08:41Matthew was one of over 60,000 British soldiers living and
0:08:41 > 0:08:46working alongside the Indian Army in military stations or cantonments.
0:08:48 > 0:08:51It was an uneventful routine.
0:08:51 > 0:08:54His battalion was moved around from station to station,
0:08:54 > 0:08:58carrying out peacekeeping duties and training exercises,
0:08:58 > 0:09:01ready to be called upon if trouble broke out.
0:09:05 > 0:09:08When he got to India he's promoted fairly quickly
0:09:08 > 0:09:13to a lance corporal, which is actually, it's not really a rank, it's an appointment.
0:09:13 > 0:09:15- Right.- See how you're going to do.
0:09:15 > 0:09:18He obviously does a good job there, then he's made a corporal,
0:09:18 > 0:09:21that means he gets more privileges, he gets more pay.
0:09:21 > 0:09:24Obviously, looking to the future, his pension's going to be better.
0:09:24 > 0:09:30So, was there any action to be dealt with at that time or were we having a peaceful time in India?
0:09:30 > 0:09:35There's constant little battles, little skirmishes, I should say really,
0:09:35 > 0:09:40but for him, much of his career is spent training, living in the cantonments.
0:09:40 > 0:09:42Basically, you get up, you parade,
0:09:42 > 0:09:46there might be an inspection,
0:09:46 > 0:09:50and apart from guard duties, that's virtually it. And that's one of the problems.
0:09:50 > 0:09:55For many of these soldiers there is nothing to do during the day other than go to the wet canteen, drink,
0:09:55 > 0:09:58and they drink rum and local spirits, Arak.
0:09:58 > 0:10:01And they then also gamble.
0:10:01 > 0:10:06And it's really this round of losing your money and drinking too much,
0:10:06 > 0:10:09and then getting up again and doing it all over again.
0:10:09 > 0:10:12- Was that a major problem at the time? - It is.
0:10:12 > 0:10:15You often get things outside pubs that said "no Redcoats or dogs",
0:10:15 > 0:10:18because they know they'll drink to excess.
0:10:18 > 0:10:23- So if you're a Redcoat walking your dog, you weren't allowed in.- It'd be a double whammy, wouldn't it?
0:10:26 > 0:10:29Alcohol had long been a part of army life.
0:10:29 > 0:10:31It was a long-held belief
0:10:31 > 0:10:35that it helped the troops withstand the heat, and was healthier to drink
0:10:35 > 0:10:37than the water in India.
0:10:37 > 0:10:41But by the 1860s, there was growing concern about the effects of alcohol
0:10:41 > 0:10:43on discipline and wellbeing.
0:10:43 > 0:10:46Soldiers were encouraged to join army temperance groups,
0:10:46 > 0:10:52and severe punishments were meted out to anyone found drunk on duty.
0:10:52 > 0:10:56Apparently, a lot of his sons, his offspring, were teetotallers.
0:10:56 > 0:10:59- Yeah.- Do you think this was a one-off experience,
0:10:59 > 0:11:01that he had just a slip?
0:11:01 > 0:11:06Because it seems such a, you know, a much ado about nothing
0:11:06 > 0:11:09to be demoted from where he was...
0:11:09 > 0:11:14Yeah. In 1874, in the January, as you say, he is found to be drunk.
0:11:14 > 0:11:17The problem with that is, we're not talking about somebody
0:11:17 > 0:11:19who's had just a couple of drinks too many.
0:11:19 > 0:11:20He is so drunk,
0:11:20 > 0:11:24he's actually taken before his commanding officer.
0:11:24 > 0:11:28He is then given two weeks of basically solitary confinement.
0:11:28 > 0:11:30Here we've got it.
0:11:30 > 0:11:35"Arrest, Corporal, 17th January 1874".
0:11:35 > 0:11:39And then "Tried and reduced for drink on the 31st January."
0:11:39 > 0:11:41That's the end of his promotion.
0:11:41 > 0:11:46- It must have been a crushing blow, having done so well. - It must have been traumatic.
0:11:53 > 0:11:58I've looked in the service records, but the other thing that then happens which is really interesting
0:11:58 > 0:12:03is that, having been demoted in the January, by the December he's got
0:12:03 > 0:12:06what's called the Army Certificate of Education, Second Class.
0:12:06 > 0:12:09Basically, he's gone to the school teachers and said,
0:12:09 > 0:12:12"Teach me to read and write, I want to know my three Rs",
0:12:12 > 0:12:15and he gets it within 11 months.
0:12:15 > 0:12:18How long did it take him to get back to where he wanted to be?
0:12:18 > 0:12:21We've got to go right the way down the page,
0:12:21 > 0:12:27all the way down here to actually 30th January 1882,
0:12:27 > 0:12:32before he again is promoted to Corporal once again.
0:12:32 > 0:12:35So it takes him another eight years to get back to where he was.
0:12:35 > 0:12:37So having moved up quickly,
0:12:37 > 0:12:40he's blotted his copy book to such an extent,
0:12:40 > 0:12:42he's got to drag himself back,
0:12:42 > 0:12:43possibly giving up drink,
0:12:43 > 0:12:47but certainly getting an educational qualification to say,
0:12:47 > 0:12:50"Look, I can be a corporal and I can keep on that rank. I can keep it."
0:12:50 > 0:12:52He was certainly determined,
0:12:52 > 0:12:55with another eight years before he got promoted again.
0:12:55 > 0:12:59Absolutely. This guy is a really, really determined bloke.
0:12:59 > 0:13:02And he eventually ends up actually being a staff sergeant.
0:13:02 > 0:13:04So he does really, really well.
0:13:04 > 0:13:08He's a Warrant Officer. He has done everything you might have expected
0:13:08 > 0:13:11and more, actually, in what turns out to be a career of 37 years.
0:13:11 > 0:13:13- It's a long, long career. - It's marvellous.
0:13:15 > 0:13:19Matthew's dedication to the army was rewarded with decorations
0:13:19 > 0:13:23for long service, good conduct and for combat in Afghanistan.
0:13:23 > 0:13:27By the end of his career, he'd risen up the ranks
0:13:27 > 0:13:31to become a staff sergeant, retiring on an officer's pension in 1905.
0:13:32 > 0:13:39I admire him because he seems to be a man of great character, and tough.
0:13:40 > 0:13:43To me, that's great qualities to have.
0:13:44 > 0:13:48Robin now knows that Matthew started out as a raw recruit,
0:13:48 > 0:13:49with little education.
0:13:49 > 0:13:52So he wants to find out more about Matthew's upbringing.
0:13:59 > 0:14:03The obvious route for me to take now is
0:14:03 > 0:14:07to go north to Scotland to find out where the trail begins.
0:14:09 > 0:14:12To find out more of a personal history of the man,
0:14:12 > 0:14:14to see what we can uncover.
0:14:14 > 0:14:17I don't know anything about his childhood.
0:14:17 > 0:14:22According to Robin's cousin, Anne, Matthew was born in 1849
0:14:22 > 0:14:24in Paisley in Scotland.
0:14:26 > 0:14:30Census. This is 1851.
0:14:30 > 0:14:32Here we go.
0:14:32 > 0:14:33Matthew.
0:14:34 > 0:14:39That's obviously two years old, that's Matthew Gibb.
0:14:39 > 0:14:45His father, William, obviously head of family, married.
0:14:45 > 0:14:48Agnes, obviously his wife.
0:14:48 > 0:14:50There's Jean and a Janet.
0:14:50 > 0:14:53Very interesting.
0:14:53 > 0:14:59It's describing William Gibb as a hand-loom weaver
0:14:59 > 0:15:00and the daughter,
0:15:00 > 0:15:02who was ten years old,
0:15:02 > 0:15:05is a hand-loom weaver's assistant,
0:15:05 > 0:15:08which would make sense, considering her age.
0:15:08 > 0:15:10Do the search.
0:15:12 > 0:15:15So...I'm looking at the 1861 census.
0:15:15 > 0:15:19In 1861, Matthew Gibb would have been about 12 years old.
0:15:19 > 0:15:22Here we go.
0:15:22 > 0:15:24Matthew Gibb, 12.
0:15:24 > 0:15:27Reading the address now - Road, Street...
0:15:27 > 0:15:34It's East Lane Ragged School. Why wouldn't it mention the parents?
0:15:39 > 0:15:44Matthew's parents were William and Agnes, and he had five siblings.
0:15:45 > 0:15:49In 1851, the family were living together in Paisley.
0:15:50 > 0:15:52So why does the 1861 census
0:15:52 > 0:15:55show Matthew living away from his family
0:15:55 > 0:15:59at an address listed as the Ragged School?
0:16:01 > 0:16:04I'm very curious to find out what happened to the family,
0:16:04 > 0:16:07because they slipped through the cracks.
0:16:07 > 0:16:11What were the circumstances that split them up? It's a mystery.
0:16:25 > 0:16:29Robin's come to Edinburgh and the National Library of Scotland
0:16:29 > 0:16:32to find out more about the Paisley Ragged School.
0:16:39 > 0:16:42He's meeting local historian Andrew Eadie.
0:16:46 > 0:16:49I'm trying to find out information about
0:16:49 > 0:16:53the life of my ancestor, Matthew Gibb.
0:16:53 > 0:16:58- And he was in an establishment called a Ragged School.- Right.
0:16:58 > 0:17:01So tell me, what is a Ragged School?
0:17:01 > 0:17:04It was really for...
0:17:04 > 0:17:07if we look at the, you know, street directory for Paisley,
0:17:09 > 0:17:14it's called Ragged or Industrial School for Destitute Children.
0:17:14 > 0:17:19The idea was, the Ragged School was really for orphaned children
0:17:19 > 0:17:23or where the children couldn't be looked after by the parents
0:17:23 > 0:17:24for any reason.
0:17:24 > 0:17:26What do they do there?
0:17:26 > 0:17:30Well, the idea was really to give them a good education
0:17:30 > 0:17:33and three square meals a day.
0:17:33 > 0:17:35And did they do any work there?
0:17:35 > 0:17:41Yes, the boys had lessons in the trade of shoe making, tailoring,
0:17:41 > 0:17:42to teach them discipline
0:17:42 > 0:17:45and sort of a work ethos.
0:17:49 > 0:17:53The Ragged School in Paisley was part of a nationwide movement.
0:17:53 > 0:17:57One of the earliest ragged schools was started in 1818
0:17:57 > 0:18:00by a Portsmouth cobbler who took in a group of boys
0:18:00 > 0:18:01to teach them his trade.
0:18:03 > 0:18:07Various philanthropists, churches and charities followed suit.
0:18:07 > 0:18:09And by the middle of the century,
0:18:09 > 0:18:13there were nearly 700 ragged schools across Britain,
0:18:13 > 0:18:15providing a home, a basic education
0:18:15 > 0:18:19and a trade for society's poorest children.
0:18:19 > 0:18:24- This is a...- Ah.- ..picture...- Yeah.
0:18:24 > 0:18:28- ..taken in the late 19th Century. - This would have been the Ragged School?
0:18:28 > 0:18:30This bit here is the Ragged School.
0:18:30 > 0:18:33- So that was almost certainly the place he went?- Yes, yes.
0:18:33 > 0:18:37- And do you think that building's still there?- No, no. Unfortunately,
0:18:37 > 0:18:41- the waste ground, that's where the Ragged School was.- Right.
0:18:41 > 0:18:46So what can we tell about Matthew Gibb's personal circumstances
0:18:46 > 0:18:50that puts him in the Ragged School?
0:18:50 > 0:18:55There's no records relating to the Ragged School itself,
0:18:55 > 0:18:58but almost certainly, Matthew had been sent because his family
0:18:58 > 0:19:00were in very straitened times
0:19:00 > 0:19:02and there was nobody there to support him.
0:19:02 > 0:19:05Because of the limited number of places,
0:19:05 > 0:19:09the Ragged School in Paisley had a strict admissions policy.
0:19:09 > 0:19:13Only children from the margins of society were selected,
0:19:13 > 0:19:15particularly those begging on the street
0:19:15 > 0:19:17or in danger of falling into crime.
0:19:17 > 0:19:19The Paisley Ragged School
0:19:19 > 0:19:23was inspired by the work of Thomas Guthrie, an evangelical minister
0:19:23 > 0:19:25who was so appalled
0:19:25 > 0:19:29by the numbers of children he saw living on the street
0:19:29 > 0:19:31that he decided to take action.
0:19:31 > 0:19:34This is Ragged Schools.
0:19:34 > 0:19:38- This was written by the Reverend Thomas Guthrie.- Right.
0:19:38 > 0:19:43The Reverend Thomas Guthrie was really important
0:19:43 > 0:19:47- relating to the spread of ragged schools throughout Scotland.- Right.
0:19:47 > 0:19:49It was actually first printed
0:19:49 > 0:19:52just about a month before they had the first meeting in Paisley
0:19:52 > 0:19:54- about forming a ragged school in Paisley.- Ah.
0:19:54 > 0:19:57Guthrie's book was written
0:19:57 > 0:20:00to drum up financial support for ragged schools,
0:20:00 > 0:20:04which were funded largely by private benefactors.
0:20:04 > 0:20:07It was also an impassioned plea on behalf of street children,
0:20:07 > 0:20:12who he believed should be treated with kindness and compassion.
0:20:12 > 0:20:16"Poor fellow. It's a bitter day, and he has neither shoes nor stockings.
0:20:16 > 0:20:20"His naked feet are red, swollen, cracked, ulcerated with the cold.
0:20:20 > 0:20:23"He's a master in posture - lying, begging, stealing.
0:20:23 > 0:20:27"Small blame to him, but much for those who have neglected him."
0:20:27 > 0:20:31"He had otherwise pined and perished."
0:20:31 > 0:20:34- Yes. Very, very, very hard times. - Yes.
0:20:45 > 0:20:49Robin still has many questions about Matthew's family,
0:20:49 > 0:20:51so he's heading to Paisley,
0:20:51 > 0:20:53seven miles west of Glasgow,
0:20:53 > 0:20:55to try and find some answers.
0:20:55 > 0:20:57Here was Matthew at the Ragged school.
0:20:57 > 0:21:00What was the family doing?
0:21:00 > 0:21:03All I know about William, his father,
0:21:03 > 0:21:06is that he was a hand-loom weaver.
0:21:06 > 0:21:09He's the guy I've got to shed more light on, William.
0:21:10 > 0:21:14Paisley was at the centre of the weaving trade,
0:21:14 > 0:21:18and the town's museum has a huge collection relating to the industry.
0:21:23 > 0:21:26- Hi, there.- Hello. How do you do?- Good to see you.
0:21:26 > 0:21:29Dan Coughlin has spent 20 years researching the history
0:21:29 > 0:21:31and technology of the Paisley weavers.
0:21:31 > 0:21:34I know that my great-great-grandfather, William,
0:21:34 > 0:21:35was a hand-loom weaver.
0:21:35 > 0:21:38- I think one of his daughters was also an assistant.- Is that right?
0:21:38 > 0:21:41What exactly would that entail?
0:21:41 > 0:21:45Well, at that time, if he was in Paisley,
0:21:45 > 0:21:47he was probably a shawl weaver.
0:21:47 > 0:21:49I have some shawls here which I can show you,
0:21:49 > 0:21:52just to show you what they were producing,
0:21:52 > 0:21:55which is quite impressive.
0:21:55 > 0:21:56Gosh. That's great.
0:21:56 > 0:22:00This would have been a typical product of the looms
0:22:00 > 0:22:04at the time your ancestor was here.
0:22:04 > 0:22:07How long would it take to make one of those?
0:22:07 > 0:22:10Well, it was broken up into maybe 12 or 13 different trades -
0:22:10 > 0:22:15the dyer, the warper, the beamer, lots of different trades. The weaver was highly skilled.
0:22:15 > 0:22:19You can see yourself, it's a very, very fine fabric.
0:22:19 > 0:22:23What was so special about Paisley being at the centre of this?
0:22:23 > 0:22:27Weaving during that period was probably the biggest industry in Britain,
0:22:27 > 0:22:32and you had areas which specialised in particular fabrics.
0:22:32 > 0:22:35So you had, for instance, Dunfermline specialised in damask.
0:22:35 > 0:22:37Paisley specialised in the Paisley shawl.
0:22:37 > 0:22:39So you had a very highly trained,
0:22:39 > 0:22:42highly skilled body of weavers in Paisley.
0:22:42 > 0:22:44So if there was any special fabric to be produced,
0:22:44 > 0:22:47this is where it would be produced.
0:22:47 > 0:22:51The famous Paisley pattern people speak of all over the world originated here?
0:22:51 > 0:22:52It takes its name from Paisley.
0:22:52 > 0:22:57It was originally called an imitation Indian, because it was an imitation of the cashmere shawl.
0:22:57 > 0:23:00But Paisley produced them in such abundance
0:23:00 > 0:23:01and the trade lasted for so long
0:23:01 > 0:23:04that it became known as the Paisley pattern.
0:23:04 > 0:23:08In the 1851 census, William's daughter Jean
0:23:08 > 0:23:11was listed as a hand-loom weaver's assistant.
0:23:11 > 0:23:14The fact that there was a girl helping him suggests
0:23:14 > 0:23:18that he was probably working on a drawloom, and the young boy or girl,
0:23:18 > 0:23:20which was called a draw boy or a draw girl,
0:23:20 > 0:23:22had to draw the strings here,
0:23:22 > 0:23:25and that raised the warped threads for the weaver.
0:23:25 > 0:23:28So it was a two-person loom. It does look very complicated.
0:23:28 > 0:23:31It's getting tangled up that I would worry about.
0:23:31 > 0:23:33I can show how the loom works if you want.
0:23:33 > 0:23:35That would be lovely, yes.
0:23:36 > 0:23:38This is the Jacquard Loom here,
0:23:38 > 0:23:41and the pattern is actually encoded into these cards here.
0:23:41 > 0:23:43So when I press my foot on the treadle,
0:23:43 > 0:23:46it activates the Jacquard head up there.
0:23:55 > 0:23:59- Doing this is very, obviously, time-consuming.- It is indeed, yeah.
0:23:59 > 0:24:03And this one here, it's 100 threads per inch.
0:24:03 > 0:24:06But if you were doing it in a Paisley shawl
0:24:06 > 0:24:09and you had 100 threads per inch, you'd have to multiply that
0:24:09 > 0:24:14by seven or eight or how many colours you were using. So it could be several hundred per inch.
0:24:17 > 0:24:20You had different cards, you could put different cards in?
0:24:20 > 0:24:23- There's a different card for every colour.- Right.
0:24:26 > 0:24:28Weavers worked in small groups for an agent,
0:24:28 > 0:24:32who decided on the designs and yarns and negotiated prices.
0:24:35 > 0:24:38The patterns were lavish and intricate,
0:24:38 > 0:24:41and the Paisley shawl was a high-fashion garment,
0:24:41 > 0:24:45worn by wealthy women and popularised by Queen Victoria.
0:24:48 > 0:24:50At the height of the trade,
0:24:50 > 0:24:54the Paisley weavers were amongst the highest-paid artisans in Britain.
0:24:54 > 0:24:58At one time, weaving was a very prosperous trade to be in.
0:24:58 > 0:25:00They call it the golden age of hand weaving.
0:25:00 > 0:25:02The weavers were very well paid.
0:25:02 > 0:25:07So in 1851, William, who was 38 years old by the time,
0:25:07 > 0:25:12was a full-time weaver and probably at the peak of his powers.
0:25:12 > 0:25:13Yes.
0:25:13 > 0:25:17Where was the situation in Paisley as far as weaving went?
0:25:17 > 0:25:21They were almost exclusively weaving shawls at that time,
0:25:21 > 0:25:24and that was just about the peak of the shawl trade.
0:25:24 > 0:25:26- After that... - So that was the best?
0:25:26 > 0:25:28- Probably, yes.- That's fascinating.
0:25:37 > 0:25:40What I've learnt is that it was a very prestigious profession
0:25:40 > 0:25:42when it was at its height in Paisley.
0:25:42 > 0:25:47My problem is, there's so many things left unanswered.
0:25:48 > 0:25:50Here we have William.
0:25:50 > 0:25:52We know him by name and we know what he did.
0:25:52 > 0:25:57But I think maybe something went dramatically wrong within the family.
0:25:57 > 0:26:04There was some kind of crisis that actually affected the whole family to a critical point.
0:26:04 > 0:26:08To find out what it was that caused the family breakdown,
0:26:08 > 0:26:10Robin's come to Paisley Library
0:26:10 > 0:26:14to search the archives with librarian David Weir.
0:26:15 > 0:26:22One of the things to understand about the weaving trade is that it had severe fluctuations.
0:26:22 > 0:26:25So one year you could be earning top dollar,
0:26:25 > 0:26:30and next year be out of work.
0:26:31 > 0:26:33The newspapers date from 1850 and '51.
0:26:36 > 0:26:39So look, we've got an article here.
0:26:39 > 0:26:43State of trade, and this is for 1850.
0:26:43 > 0:26:45It says, "There is no improvement in the condition of trade,
0:26:45 > 0:26:49"so far as the working population are concerned.
0:26:49 > 0:26:52"Large numbers are still out of employment,
0:26:52 > 0:26:54"and have been so for many weeks past".
0:26:54 > 0:26:56And here...
0:26:57 > 0:27:01..if I can look... state of trade, that one there.
0:27:01 > 0:27:03So this is state of trade.
0:27:03 > 0:27:07"Paisley has suffered very severely in the general dullness
0:27:07 > 0:27:09"prevalent throughout the country."
0:27:09 > 0:27:11We've got a month later.
0:27:11 > 0:27:15This is another article on similar lines,
0:27:15 > 0:27:17and it's there, state of trade.
0:27:17 > 0:27:19So it says here, "State of trade.
0:27:19 > 0:27:22"We are very happy to state that the trade of the town,
0:27:22 > 0:27:25"which has been very dull for several months past,
0:27:25 > 0:27:26"has now generally improved."
0:27:26 > 0:27:29I think what the articles in these papers
0:27:29 > 0:27:33illustrate is just how volatile the trade was.
0:27:33 > 0:27:35But from this period on,
0:27:35 > 0:27:37the volatility continues
0:27:37 > 0:27:42and really, there's a general decline in the number of weavers
0:27:42 > 0:27:45employed in hand-loom weaving.
0:27:47 > 0:27:50Despite the popularity of Paisley shawls in the early 1850s,
0:27:50 > 0:27:53the trade was under threat.
0:27:53 > 0:27:56Britain was in the midst of a revolution.
0:27:56 > 0:28:01Mechanised power looms were taking over from the hand-loom weavers.
0:28:01 > 0:28:04And when they worked harder to compete,
0:28:04 > 0:28:08they succeeded only in flooding the market and driving down prices.
0:28:08 > 0:28:13The power loom could never weave a pattern as complex as a Paisley,
0:28:13 > 0:28:16but the mass production of cheap printed shawls
0:28:16 > 0:28:18drove down demand for the real thing.
0:28:18 > 0:28:24For the town's weaving community, the results were disastrous.
0:28:27 > 0:28:30Now these documents here are statements
0:28:30 > 0:28:33from the Paisley Poorhouse.
0:28:33 > 0:28:38This system was the equivalent of today's Social Security or Unemployment Benefit.
0:28:40 > 0:28:44This is William Gibb, Matthew's father.
0:28:44 > 0:28:474th November, that is 1854.
0:28:47 > 0:28:49Yeah.
0:28:49 > 0:28:50William Gibb.
0:28:50 > 0:28:53Applicant's name, married -
0:28:53 > 0:28:56of course it has him married in Paisley to Agnes...
0:28:58 > 0:29:02..and of course here she died on 12th July last.
0:29:02 > 0:29:03Yeah.
0:29:03 > 0:29:08- So she died in 1854, in July of that year.- Yeah.
0:29:09 > 0:29:10That's very sad.
0:29:12 > 0:29:18"On the 16th November, 1854, William Gibb left his family destitute...
0:29:21 > 0:29:27"..and said that he was going in search of work."
0:29:27 > 0:29:31He said he was going in search of work.
0:29:31 > 0:29:33"As he had nothing to do in Paisley,"
0:29:33 > 0:29:35so there was no work for him in Paisley.
0:29:35 > 0:29:38- Clearly his wife... - His wife had died.
0:29:38 > 0:29:42..his wife had died, and probably he just wasn't able
0:29:42 > 0:29:45to cope with five children.
0:29:46 > 0:29:50According to the records, William was away for two years.
0:29:50 > 0:29:53He travelled round Scotland looking for work,
0:29:53 > 0:29:56leaving his children to be cared for by the parish.
0:29:58 > 0:30:00"4th September, 1856,
0:30:00 > 0:30:05"William Gibb never returned to receive his children.
0:30:05 > 0:30:07"All his children are away from him."
0:30:07 > 0:30:12It's almost as if he abandoned them, abandoned the family.
0:30:12 > 0:30:15While William was absent, his children,
0:30:15 > 0:30:19aged from four to 17, were fending for themselves.
0:30:19 > 0:30:2112th November, 1857 again...
0:30:21 > 0:30:24"Matthew in Ragged School..."
0:30:24 > 0:30:27And Agnes was with...
0:30:27 > 0:30:30..with a person in service.
0:30:30 > 0:30:35Right, so she was in service, obviously she as a maid or something.
0:30:35 > 0:30:37Janet and Bell...
0:30:37 > 0:30:40..in New Street, so he's not looking after any of his children.
0:30:40 > 0:30:42Right.
0:30:42 > 0:30:45By 1860, nearly 750 of the 800 weavers
0:30:45 > 0:30:49registered in Paisley were unemployed.
0:30:51 > 0:30:55Three years later, William Gibb reappeared in the records.
0:30:57 > 0:31:00"On the 31st of June is certified by...
0:31:00 > 0:31:01"..Falconer."
0:31:01 > 0:31:03- Dr Falconer?- Yeah.
0:31:03 > 0:31:05- "To be weak from destitution."- Yes.
0:31:05 > 0:31:09His physical state has really deteriorated to the extent
0:31:09 > 0:31:12where he doesn't feel he can go on, I think.
0:31:12 > 0:31:13You know, by that period, really,
0:31:13 > 0:31:17the weaving trade was well in decline, and you know,
0:31:17 > 0:31:20William Gibb wouldn't have been the only person
0:31:20 > 0:31:22to have ended up destitute.
0:31:27 > 0:31:31"January 30th, 1863, William Gibb."
0:31:31 > 0:31:35It says, "Depression of spirits and...
0:31:35 > 0:31:39- "leading to insanity."- Yeah.
0:31:43 > 0:31:44Mm, not a very happy life.
0:31:44 > 0:31:46Not very happy reading either, is it?
0:31:46 > 0:31:49No, I'm afraid there's not a lot of fun in the poor lot.
0:31:49 > 0:31:53I mean, I've no doubt, if I was him, I'd be depressed as well.
0:31:53 > 0:31:55I mean it would be hard for anybody
0:31:55 > 0:31:58to actually feel good in his situation.
0:31:59 > 0:32:03By the 1870s, demand for the Paisley shawl had disappeared.
0:32:03 > 0:32:07The hand-weaving industry - once the life blood of the town -
0:32:07 > 0:32:08had all but died.
0:32:13 > 0:32:17The final record for William appears in 1874 -
0:32:17 > 0:32:2020 years after his first application for Poor Relief.
0:32:20 > 0:32:24"The 18th March..."
0:32:24 > 0:32:25Yeah.
0:32:25 > 0:32:29"William Gibb died in Poorhouse today."
0:32:30 > 0:32:33So, on March 18th, he died in the Poorhouse.
0:32:33 > 0:32:34Yeah.
0:32:35 > 0:32:38Not a very happy ending, is it?
0:32:38 > 0:32:40No. No, it's very unfortunate.
0:32:41 > 0:32:44Sad life and an unhappy ending.
0:32:44 > 0:32:47A sad life and a miserable end, I would have thought.
0:32:47 > 0:32:48Yeah.
0:32:52 > 0:32:56It's a very sad story, actually, because...
0:32:56 > 0:32:59you feel helpless, because when you read
0:32:59 > 0:33:02about the situation, the conditions,
0:33:02 > 0:33:06you feel like you want to reach out and help from this point of history.
0:33:06 > 0:33:10But that's the problem - you can't and it did happen,
0:33:10 > 0:33:13and there's no real redeeming factors here.
0:33:13 > 0:33:15That's the sadness.
0:33:15 > 0:33:18There's a black cloud appears over William's life
0:33:18 > 0:33:22that affects the whole family, and it stays there till the very end,
0:33:22 > 0:33:23until he dies in the Poorhouse.
0:33:38 > 0:33:43Robin's final stop in Scotland is the site of the Paisley Ragged School.
0:33:53 > 0:33:59Matthew actually had the best option of going to the Ragged School.
0:33:59 > 0:34:02It turned out that it wasn't such a bad idea
0:34:02 > 0:34:05because after that he did go into the Army and he had
0:34:05 > 0:34:10a very solid and long career, and obviously a successful career.
0:34:10 > 0:34:13And perhaps we owe our progress in our family
0:34:13 > 0:34:15down to Matthew's decisions.
0:34:32 > 0:34:35Back in Oxfordshire, Robin's starting a new search -
0:34:35 > 0:34:38this time into his maternal line.
0:34:38 > 0:34:42He wants to find out about his grandmother Nora's family.
0:34:42 > 0:34:44I loved my grandmother.
0:34:44 > 0:34:46She was a lovely, lovely person.
0:34:46 > 0:34:49I'm glad I got to know her as an adult.
0:34:49 > 0:34:54She was a lovely lady, and she lived well into her 90s.
0:34:54 > 0:34:59Now, I know that her mother was called Lynch.
0:35:00 > 0:35:03There are no photographs and very little information
0:35:03 > 0:35:08in the family about Robin's great-grandmother, Cecilia Lynch.
0:35:08 > 0:35:12I know nothing about her life at all, except she was midwife.
0:35:12 > 0:35:16Very important job, I suppose, to have, you know, delivering babies,
0:35:16 > 0:35:18and very few went to hospital.
0:35:18 > 0:35:22It would be very interesting to find out more about that.
0:35:27 > 0:35:32I'm actually trying to trace back now my mother's side,
0:35:32 > 0:35:35the maternal line, and see what that comes up with.
0:35:36 > 0:35:41Here we go, we've got the 1911 census up now.
0:35:43 > 0:35:45There's my grandmother, Nora, anyway,
0:35:45 > 0:35:49and then we've got Lawrence, Eileen, daughter, age two.
0:35:49 > 0:35:52Head of the family, James Lynch.
0:35:54 > 0:35:58And then it's got Cecilia - she's crossed out.
0:35:58 > 0:35:59Why? Why is she crossed out?
0:35:59 > 0:36:02Do you think that she might have been out and about,
0:36:02 > 0:36:05as her job would have taken her?
0:36:05 > 0:36:08The fact that Cecilia's name is crossed out suggests
0:36:08 > 0:36:12that she was out of the house when the census was taken.
0:36:13 > 0:36:17She's listed on the census as a certified midwife.
0:36:17 > 0:36:20Robin's searching the website of the National Archives
0:36:20 > 0:36:23to see if she was registered with a professional body.
0:36:23 > 0:36:25Well, we have scope and content.
0:36:25 > 0:36:27Here we have Lynch, Cecilia.
0:36:27 > 0:36:30So what we've got here, this is the reference DV5,
0:36:30 > 0:36:37this is the Central Midwives Board, which is the penal board case files.
0:36:37 > 0:36:40"These files contain correspondence and papers concerning
0:36:40 > 0:36:44"the prosecution of midwives by the Central Midwives Board."
0:36:44 > 0:36:46Prosecution of midwives?!
0:36:46 > 0:36:49Are we looking at some kind of criminal act here, or is it...
0:36:49 > 0:36:53"Access condi... Closed for 75 years,
0:36:53 > 0:36:58"record opening date will be the 1st January, 2013."
0:36:58 > 0:37:02It's just got, "Legal status - Not Public Record."
0:37:02 > 0:37:04I mean, I don't know. Why is it closed?
0:37:04 > 0:37:06And not open till 1st January, 2013?
0:37:06 > 0:37:10This is not a very pleasant discovery.
0:37:10 > 0:37:12This is something...something dark about this.
0:37:12 > 0:37:16It would be very interesting to find out,
0:37:16 > 0:37:18because it just doesn't make sense to me.
0:37:22 > 0:37:25The Central Midwives Board which brought the prosecution
0:37:25 > 0:37:30against Cecilia, is now called the Nursing and Midwifery Council.
0:37:32 > 0:37:35Robin's come to their headquarters in London
0:37:35 > 0:37:38to meet Education and Research Officer Sue Macdonald.
0:37:38 > 0:37:40- Hello. - Hi Robin, good to meet you.
0:37:40 > 0:37:42Pleased to meet you, I'm Robin.
0:37:42 > 0:37:43'Cecilia Lynch, er...'
0:37:43 > 0:37:48was prosecuted by the Central Midwife Penal Board.
0:37:48 > 0:37:53I don't know what that entails, because it's closed for 75 years,
0:37:53 > 0:37:56and I wonder if you could shed any light on that?
0:37:56 > 0:37:59I mean the reason why, for the length of time would be
0:37:59 > 0:38:02if the case involved a mother or a child...
0:38:02 > 0:38:03Of course.
0:38:03 > 0:38:06..it would be to protect that mother or child.
0:38:06 > 0:38:09That's what I felt, but then there must be a reason
0:38:09 > 0:38:11why it came about in the first place.
0:38:11 > 0:38:14It could be many things, because at that time midwives
0:38:14 > 0:38:19had to follow very prescribed rules, very prescribed ways of life.
0:38:19 > 0:38:23And if they did anything that was considered of bad character,
0:38:23 > 0:38:25they could be referred to the Board.
0:38:25 > 0:38:29If they did anything wrong in practice, they could be referred to the Board.
0:38:29 > 0:38:35And if you look at these old rules, everything is very prescribed,
0:38:35 > 0:38:36even what you wear,
0:38:36 > 0:38:41the way you have to wash your hands before you see a woman and her baby.
0:38:41 > 0:38:46Every part of your professional life is prescribed in these rules.
0:38:52 > 0:38:57Up until the early 1900s, there were no national standards in midwifery,
0:38:57 > 0:38:59and midwives needed no formal training.
0:38:59 > 0:39:02Because they sometimes performed other roles -
0:39:02 > 0:39:06like laying out the dead and providing abortions -
0:39:06 > 0:39:09some midwives were regarded with suspicion.
0:39:09 > 0:39:14One newspaper from 1896 called them 'drunk and disreputable old women'.
0:39:15 > 0:39:18But, in 1902, the Midwives Act was passed,
0:39:18 > 0:39:23which required every midwife to be properly trained and registered.
0:39:23 > 0:39:26Cecilia was one of this new breed of professionals,
0:39:26 > 0:39:28qualifying in 1910.
0:39:29 > 0:39:33I notice in the Register, though, of the Midwives,
0:39:33 > 0:39:36because she's down here as Cecilia
0:39:36 > 0:39:40and she will have achieved the CMB examination.
0:39:40 > 0:39:43She came in directly as a professional midwife,
0:39:43 > 0:39:47having undertaken the Central Midwives Board examination.
0:39:47 > 0:39:49So, she was highly qualified.
0:39:49 > 0:39:51For that time, absolutely, absolutely.
0:39:51 > 0:39:55And obviously years of experience behind her by 1937.
0:39:55 > 0:39:57She must have been, yeah.
0:40:00 > 0:40:03So getting back to the actual job of being midwives,
0:40:03 > 0:40:07what would have been my great-grandmother's day-to-day?
0:40:07 > 0:40:09Was it actually a very busy job?
0:40:09 > 0:40:12She would have had quite a busy time.
0:40:12 > 0:40:14She'd have had her own patch,
0:40:14 > 0:40:19and it says in this book that she was in Worsley in Manchester.
0:40:19 > 0:40:22And the women and the families would have known her.
0:40:22 > 0:40:25But of course, some midwives would have had, in their patch,
0:40:25 > 0:40:28might have had very poor women who didn't have the money
0:40:28 > 0:40:31to pay for the midwife, and certainly didn't have the money
0:40:31 > 0:40:33to pay for a doctor,
0:40:33 > 0:40:36and so midwives were quite often not very well off,
0:40:36 > 0:40:40depending on how many poor women they had in their patch.
0:40:41 > 0:40:43In the early part of the 20th century,
0:40:43 > 0:40:47the majority of babies were born at home, and independent midwives,
0:40:47 > 0:40:51like Cecilia, would have been on call day and night.
0:40:52 > 0:40:56They dealt with around 100 - 150 births a year
0:40:56 > 0:41:00and would be paid by the expectant mother to attend the delivery
0:41:00 > 0:41:02and for a month of post-natal care.
0:41:02 > 0:41:07They would have encountered anything from premature babies to stillbirths.
0:41:07 > 0:41:10And, of course, there weren't the methods of pain relief
0:41:10 > 0:41:14to lessen the pain during childbirth as we have today,
0:41:14 > 0:41:17so it must have been quite traumatic.
0:41:17 > 0:41:20There's a lot that your great-grandmother was doing
0:41:20 > 0:41:24for women that would have taken a lot of internal strength.
0:41:24 > 0:41:27- She would have been a very strong woman...- Yeah.
0:41:27 > 0:41:30..and tremendously admired and respected for that,
0:41:30 > 0:41:32because she'd get women through
0:41:32 > 0:41:35what was sometimes quite a dangerous time.
0:41:35 > 0:41:38I did notice that the records could not be opened.
0:41:38 > 0:41:42There's no way of finding out until the 1st January, 2013.
0:41:42 > 0:41:46Is there any way of finding out before then?
0:41:46 > 0:41:50Well, unless you apply to the Nursing Midwifery Council
0:41:50 > 0:41:54- for them to open the records early, that might be a possibility.- Right.
0:41:58 > 0:42:01Very interesting getting the background
0:42:01 > 0:42:03on what midwives had to do,
0:42:03 > 0:42:06but it still didn't shed any light on the circumstances
0:42:06 > 0:42:10surrounding that Penal Board, which is the Prosecution Board.
0:42:10 > 0:42:15I have made a request to the Council to see
0:42:15 > 0:42:18if I can get access to that information before 2013,
0:42:18 > 0:42:20to see if I can get it opened and have a look,
0:42:20 > 0:42:24because it's something I really sincerely want to get to the bottom of.
0:42:25 > 0:42:27While Robin waits to hear back
0:42:27 > 0:42:30about his Freedom of Information request,
0:42:30 > 0:42:34he's contacting De Partu, a group of researchers
0:42:34 > 0:42:37studying the history of childbirth and midwifery.
0:42:39 > 0:42:43Going to type the message in asking if there's anybody
0:42:43 > 0:42:45that knew her or has any record of the babies
0:42:45 > 0:42:49that she might have delivered, or anything else they might know of.
0:42:49 > 0:42:52So, let's see what we can come up with.
0:42:56 > 0:42:59The next step of Robin's journey takes him north.
0:43:02 > 0:43:06I'm hoping that, going to Manchester, the trail might turn up something,
0:43:06 > 0:43:09because, after all, that's where she lived,
0:43:09 > 0:43:13that's where she came from, and I'm hoping that there may be some
0:43:13 > 0:43:16nugget that I can actually grab hold of and find some reason in this.
0:43:24 > 0:43:28Cecilia lived in Worsley Road in Manchester for three decades.
0:43:30 > 0:43:33This was a working-class neighbourhood,
0:43:33 > 0:43:36with higher-than-average levels of infant mortality
0:43:36 > 0:43:38and poor maternal health.
0:43:39 > 0:43:43She would have been well known in the community.
0:43:43 > 0:43:46Before the advent of contraception,
0:43:46 > 0:43:49the average woman experienced five to 12 pregnancies in her life,
0:43:49 > 0:43:55and a single street could keep a midwife busy all year.
0:44:01 > 0:44:04On his arrival in Worsley Road,
0:44:04 > 0:44:06Robin gets a response from his online post.
0:44:06 > 0:44:11It says here, "I am in touch with a lady
0:44:11 > 0:44:15"who qualified as a midwife in 1947.
0:44:15 > 0:44:18"She also was delivered by Cecilia Lynch,
0:44:18 > 0:44:24"and has some memories of her and where she lived."
0:44:24 > 0:44:27This is more than I expected, really.
0:44:29 > 0:44:30Five miles away in Irlam,
0:44:30 > 0:44:34Robin's arranged to meet 90-year-old Mary Cherry.
0:44:43 > 0:44:45- Hello.- Hello.
0:44:45 > 0:44:47My name's Robin Gibb.
0:44:47 > 0:44:50- I'm very pleased to meet you. - Pleased to meet you.
0:44:50 > 0:44:51- My name's Mary Cherry.- Yes.
0:44:51 > 0:44:55- This is my sister, Margaret. This is Robin.- Hello, Margaret.
0:44:55 > 0:44:56- Hello, Robin.- How do you do?
0:44:56 > 0:44:58- Pleased to meet you. - Please, sit down.
0:44:58 > 0:45:01Yes, where, where can I... Shall I sit here?
0:45:01 > 0:45:04So, Mary, did you know Cecilia Lynch?
0:45:04 > 0:45:09My mother's midwife was called Lynch,
0:45:09 > 0:45:14and Nurse Lynch brought me into the world.
0:45:14 > 0:45:15So, there we have it.
0:45:15 > 0:45:22And she also brought my brother into the world,
0:45:22 > 0:45:28and then she brought my dear sister, Margaret, into the world.
0:45:28 > 0:45:33She had a nice, smiling face, and she had white hair.
0:45:34 > 0:45:38And she wore brown uniform.
0:45:40 > 0:45:44Now this is my little sister, Margaret, who is two,
0:45:44 > 0:45:48this is Fred, who is two years younger than me,
0:45:48 > 0:45:52and these are Nurse Lynch's babies.
0:45:55 > 0:45:59This is me when I knew Nurse Lynch.
0:45:59 > 0:46:00Oh, yes.
0:46:00 > 0:46:03This is me at school, I was seven,
0:46:03 > 0:46:09and when I came home Nurse Lynch had brought me my little sister.
0:46:09 > 0:46:16She used to let me watch her bath my little sister in a bowl.
0:46:16 > 0:46:17Amazing.
0:46:17 > 0:46:21We had an old-fashioned hand stand,
0:46:21 > 0:46:25and we had a jug and bowl on there,
0:46:25 > 0:46:29and my little sister fitted in that bowl.
0:46:29 > 0:46:33So, Mary, did you know your mum was pregnant?
0:46:33 > 0:46:34Oh, no.
0:46:34 > 0:46:36Oh, no.
0:46:36 > 0:46:38My mum wore a mac.
0:46:38 > 0:46:40- Oh, she hid it?- Hid it.
0:46:40 > 0:46:42You didn't go about like you do today,
0:46:42 > 0:46:45letting everybody see, "Hooray, I'm pregnant."
0:46:47 > 0:46:49We didn't know we're having a baby.
0:46:49 > 0:46:51Oh, no.
0:46:51 > 0:46:54- So you didn't know till... - We didn't know till we got you.
0:46:54 > 0:46:56I came home from school and there she was.
0:46:56 > 0:46:59And I was so fascinated by Nurse Lynch
0:46:59 > 0:47:02that I wanted to be like her.
0:47:03 > 0:47:07So I brought babies into the world.
0:47:07 > 0:47:10Following in Cecilia's footsteps,
0:47:10 > 0:47:13Mary became a certified midwife in 1947
0:47:13 > 0:47:17and worked in Manchester's Hope Hospital.
0:47:17 > 0:47:21I went on a computer, online, and I found
0:47:21 > 0:47:24the Central Midwives Board penal report
0:47:24 > 0:47:27actually regarding Cecilia Lynch.
0:47:27 > 0:47:31What would be the most important things to look out for
0:47:31 > 0:47:35that could actually, um, get a midwife into trouble?
0:47:35 > 0:47:39She could be called to anything to cope with.
0:47:39 > 0:47:41Yeah.
0:47:41 > 0:47:43And there were a lot of sick children then,
0:47:43 > 0:47:45because things were so poor.
0:47:45 > 0:47:47But as far as Nurse Lynch, I do know that
0:47:47 > 0:47:50she was such a woman that she would do the right thing.
0:47:50 > 0:47:52- A very competent woman.- Yes.
0:47:52 > 0:47:54A competent midwife.
0:47:54 > 0:47:57- That's what comes out, very kind and loving.- I'm sure.
0:47:57 > 0:47:59Thank you very much, Mary, it was lovely.
0:47:59 > 0:48:01You're very welcome, I'm glad to have helped you.
0:48:01 > 0:48:04- I hope I have. - I'm awfully glad to meet you.
0:48:11 > 0:48:15In 1937, the year she was prosecuted,
0:48:15 > 0:48:20Cecilia was 58 and had almost three decades of experience behind her.
0:48:21 > 0:48:23What I don't understand is, I mean,
0:48:23 > 0:48:28I know that from all accounts she was a dedicated, passionate, particular
0:48:28 > 0:48:34and self-sacrificing midwife, and the only thing I can think about
0:48:34 > 0:48:39is that it was just something that today wouldn't have meant very much.
0:48:41 > 0:48:43And my job now is, of course, to try
0:48:43 > 0:48:47and get access to that information as soon as I can, somehow.
0:48:56 > 0:49:01Robin's heard back about his Freedom of Information request.
0:49:04 > 0:49:08He's been sent the case notes relating to Cecilia's prosecution.
0:49:08 > 0:49:13They've been edited to protect the identity of the family involved.
0:49:32 > 0:49:37Well, what I have found is what I hoped it would be,
0:49:37 > 0:49:39and it was actually, um...
0:49:39 > 0:49:44She was doing the right thing, she was just going against the rules.
0:49:44 > 0:49:47She was looking after a...
0:49:47 > 0:49:50The way I see it, she was looking after a baby who had a problem
0:49:50 > 0:49:54almost, I would say, from birth, but sounded like conjunctivitis to me,
0:49:54 > 0:49:59something that they could cure with penicillin today.
0:49:59 > 0:50:03She was doing the best thing and she was attending the child every day.
0:50:03 > 0:50:06Um, but apparently, the rules were that you have to call the doctor in
0:50:06 > 0:50:10when you're dealing with the child's eyes, bathing it every day.
0:50:10 > 0:50:14She was looking after the child, she just didn't call the doctor, and that was her big mistake.
0:50:20 > 0:50:22To help him interpret the document,
0:50:22 > 0:50:28Robin's come to the University of Salford to meet Jeanne Lythgoe,
0:50:28 > 0:50:31a supervisor of midwives and lecturer in midwifery.
0:50:32 > 0:50:34- Hello.- Hello. - Hi.- How are you?
0:50:36 > 0:50:40The first impressions I get from this report is that, um...
0:50:40 > 0:50:43she was guilty of some kind of neglect,
0:50:43 > 0:50:49and my view was that her only real neglect was that she didn't inform the doctor.
0:50:49 > 0:50:54She was, you know, very concerned, bathing the child's eyes,
0:50:54 > 0:50:57and I just wondered what your take on it is?
0:50:57 > 0:51:01I mean, I think you're right, you know, you are right that she
0:51:01 > 0:51:05did pay, um, good attention to the baby's eyes.
0:51:05 > 0:51:09I think the problem for Cecilia was that as a midwife,
0:51:09 > 0:51:13- she was working under certain rules that were set.- Of course.
0:51:13 > 0:51:16And the reason for that was because
0:51:16 > 0:51:19some conditions of the eyes discharging could be as a result
0:51:19 > 0:51:25of a very serious condition called ophthalmia neonatorum.
0:51:25 > 0:51:28And that was a result of infection
0:51:28 > 0:51:32from the mum having gonorrhoea, having suffered from gonorrhoea.
0:51:32 > 0:51:35And the baby's eyes get infected as the baby
0:51:35 > 0:51:37comes down the birth canal.
0:51:37 > 0:51:44And Cecilia would have known that she was to notify the Medical Officer for Health
0:51:44 > 0:51:46if she came across or had any suspicions
0:51:46 > 0:51:48of this actual condition.
0:51:52 > 0:51:55When the case was brought against Cecilia in 1937,
0:51:55 > 0:51:59gonorrhoea was a major public health problem.
0:51:59 > 0:52:02Because of the stigma attached to the disease,
0:52:02 > 0:52:08and the difficulty of diagnosing and treating it, many cases went unreported.
0:52:08 > 0:52:11This led to a nationwide sexual-health campaign,
0:52:11 > 0:52:15and midwives were under strict instructions to report
0:52:15 > 0:52:18any suspected cases in infants to a doctor.
0:52:19 > 0:52:24There are probably about 60,000 new infections each year.
0:52:24 > 0:52:28If untreated in the expectant mother,
0:52:28 > 0:52:33it may infect the eyes of the infant at birth, causing blindness.
0:52:34 > 0:52:38On, I think it's about the fourth or fifth day after the baby was born,
0:52:38 > 0:52:40a doctor came to see the lady.
0:52:40 > 0:52:44He says he wasn't there to actually look at the baby's eyes, he was...
0:52:44 > 0:52:47he'd visited the mum for a previous condition.
0:52:47 > 0:52:51But he looked at the baby's eyes and he said that he'd advise
0:52:51 > 0:52:54the mum to contact him if the eyes got worse.
0:52:54 > 0:52:55Yeah.
0:52:55 > 0:53:00Now Cecilia obviously felt that because those eyes had been seen by a doctor,
0:53:00 > 0:53:05that actually she had abided by the rules and she had notified a doctor.
0:53:05 > 0:53:08Maybe she thought by seeing the doctor already
0:53:08 > 0:53:11that she'd got the green light to look after this child
0:53:11 > 0:53:14and give it the follow-up care she needed.
0:53:14 > 0:53:18I... I don't doubt in my mind she wouldn't have done something wittingly.
0:53:20 > 0:53:23Cecilia continued to follow the doctor's instructions,
0:53:23 > 0:53:25bathing the eyes daily.
0:53:25 > 0:53:29When a health visitor paid a routine visit six days later,
0:53:29 > 0:53:33she noticed the condition of the eyes had deteriorated.
0:53:33 > 0:53:35The baby was sent to hospital.
0:53:35 > 0:53:40The outcomes for a lot of the babies were maybe sight problems
0:53:40 > 0:53:43or maybe the loss of sight in one eye.
0:53:43 > 0:53:47But unfortunately in this particular instance,
0:53:47 > 0:53:51the baby's eyes were severely both affected, and the child was blind.
0:53:53 > 0:53:58It is very sad, but it must have been tremendously distressing,
0:53:58 > 0:54:01and that's probably putting it mildly.
0:54:01 > 0:54:04I'm sure the baby being blind as a result
0:54:04 > 0:54:07would probably also have really upset Cecilia
0:54:07 > 0:54:13and affected, you know, affected the way she approached her practice in the future.
0:54:14 > 0:54:19Cecilia was reported to the Central Midwives Board by the local authority,
0:54:19 > 0:54:22because it was she who was officially in charge of the case.
0:54:22 > 0:54:25She had to go to a hearing there,
0:54:25 > 0:54:29and had to stand in front of a large number of people,
0:54:29 > 0:54:33a lot of them dignitaries, lords and people with MBEs.
0:54:33 > 0:54:37How do you think she would have been able to deal with this,
0:54:37 > 0:54:39mentally, I mean?
0:54:39 > 0:54:42Um, I think it's really to her credit
0:54:42 > 0:54:47that she seems to conduct herself well within this investigation.
0:54:47 > 0:54:51I think that comes through really well within her writing.
0:54:51 > 0:54:56She's almost defiant that she is innocent and she wants to prove that.
0:54:56 > 0:54:59She could have easily decided, no, I'm not going to face that,
0:54:59 > 0:55:02I will retire and, you know, I won't continue.
0:55:02 > 0:55:04I think it was an injustice.
0:55:04 > 0:55:09I think she was blamed unnecessarily, considering the reputation that she had
0:55:09 > 0:55:12and the amount of people that she delivered into the world.
0:55:12 > 0:55:15But unfortunately, the Central Midwives Board,
0:55:15 > 0:55:18it was a very punitive type of organisation...
0:55:18 > 0:55:19Obviously, yes.
0:55:19 > 0:55:23And it was really developed by doctors.
0:55:23 > 0:55:25So the rules were actually developed by doctors.
0:55:25 > 0:55:27So what was the outcome for Cecilia?
0:55:27 > 0:55:30Was there any punishment?
0:55:30 > 0:55:33Well, what happened was, they actually looked at the case
0:55:33 > 0:55:37and they found her guilty of breaking, breaching that rule,
0:55:37 > 0:55:39because she didn't notify.
0:55:39 > 0:55:42But then they actually looked at all the supporting evidence,
0:55:42 > 0:55:47and in that instance they then decided they would just give her a caution.
0:55:47 > 0:55:50And she was able to continue as a midwife.
0:55:50 > 0:55:52It must have been a blow to her, though.
0:55:52 > 0:55:57Yeah. I don't think we can underestimate the stress and upset that that would have caused her.
0:55:57 > 0:56:01I certainly think that it must have been really traumatic for her.
0:56:05 > 0:56:09The case notes include character references for Cecilia
0:56:09 > 0:56:12written by some of the doctors who worked with her.
0:56:12 > 0:56:14So it was written in April '37.
0:56:14 > 0:56:17"I have known Nurse Lynch for almost three years,
0:56:17 > 0:56:21"and during that time always found her to be highly efficient
0:56:21 > 0:56:25"and conscientious in her work and good to her patients.
0:56:25 > 0:56:29"And as far as I'm concerned she's the best midwife with whom
0:56:29 > 0:56:31"I have ever worked."
0:56:31 > 0:56:35And that's just an example of the many good letters of support that she had.
0:56:38 > 0:56:42Robin's final stop is the local history library in Salford.
0:56:42 > 0:56:48He wants to find out if Cecilia was able to restore her good name.
0:56:48 > 0:56:52She died in 1939, just two years after the case,
0:56:52 > 0:56:56and only three days before she was due to retire.
0:57:01 > 0:57:04Robin's searching the local papers for an obituary.
0:57:04 > 0:57:07The local news, Eccles, Swinton, Urmston.
0:57:07 > 0:57:09Ah, here we are.
0:57:09 > 0:57:11This is Chat and Comment.
0:57:11 > 0:57:14Nurse Lynch, Death of Popular Winton Midwife.
0:57:17 > 0:57:21"Yesterday Nurse Cecilia Lynch, of Worsley Road, Winston,
0:57:21 > 0:57:24"should have retired from her practice and started to take things easy
0:57:24 > 0:57:26"after a life of hard work.
0:57:26 > 0:57:30"Today her remains will be interred at the Peel Green Cemetery,
0:57:30 > 0:57:33"and her many acquaintances will be left with
0:57:33 > 0:57:36"but a memory of one of the most popular figures in the district.
0:57:36 > 0:57:39"She had attended numerous patients
0:57:39 > 0:57:42"and assisted in bringing hundreds of babies into the world.
0:57:42 > 0:57:49"Throughout the area she served, she was respected and admired by all with whom she came into contact."
0:57:49 > 0:57:55I think that's a great dedication to her. I don't think you can get much better than that.
0:57:55 > 0:57:58She did do great things.
0:57:58 > 0:58:01To bring thousands of people into this world, safely.
0:58:10 > 0:58:14I feel now that I know someone in my not-too-distant past
0:58:14 > 0:58:17that I'd like to have known when they were alive.
0:58:17 > 0:58:19I feel richer for knowing.
0:58:24 > 0:58:28The fact is that you can affect people's lives in many different ways.
0:58:28 > 0:58:33And what I've found so far is, on my father's side
0:58:33 > 0:58:35and on my mother's side, is two heroes.
0:58:38 > 0:58:41The world is different because they lived.
0:59:01 > 0:59:05Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd
0:59:05 > 0:59:09E-mail subtitling@bbc.co.uk