0:00:04 > 0:00:07Comedian John Bishop was born in Liverpool.
0:00:07 > 0:00:10He worked as a sales director for a pharmaceutical company
0:00:10 > 0:00:14before deciding to reinvent himself as a stand-up comic -
0:00:14 > 0:00:16a step that would change his life.
0:00:20 > 0:00:23I tried the session with a personal trainer.
0:00:23 > 0:00:26NEVER get a personal trainer.
0:00:26 > 0:00:30Never. This personal trainer had me doing a thing called lunges.
0:00:30 > 0:00:31This is a lunge.
0:00:35 > 0:00:38Coming to things later in my life has been important because
0:00:38 > 0:00:42it's meant that I have got a sense of perspective, I am very grounded,
0:00:42 > 0:00:45and the family's definitely the mainstay of that.
0:00:45 > 0:00:49Obviously, you know, my whole life has changed dramatically
0:00:49 > 0:00:51in the last five years
0:00:51 > 0:00:55but me relationships, certainly within the family, haven't.
0:00:55 > 0:00:58A temporary break-up with his wife Melanie
0:00:58 > 0:00:59prompted the change of career.
0:01:00 > 0:01:05We'd been married for six or seven years, I think, then we split up.
0:01:05 > 0:01:07So what I ended up doing was, er,
0:01:07 > 0:01:09looking for things to do that I could on me own.
0:01:09 > 0:01:11I went to a comedy club.
0:01:11 > 0:01:14I turned up. The guy said it was an open mic night
0:01:14 > 0:01:16which I didn't even know what that meant,
0:01:16 > 0:01:19but he just said that if you get up you don't have to pay to get in.
0:01:19 > 0:01:22I said, "I can't walk."
0:01:22 > 0:01:24He said, "That's cos you've been exercising muscles
0:01:24 > 0:01:26"you don't normally use."
0:01:26 > 0:01:30I said, "I'm 43, if I don't use them, I don't bloody need them!"
0:01:30 > 0:01:34After that first initial fear of 30 seconds,
0:01:34 > 0:01:36I just thought, "I want to do this again."
0:01:36 > 0:01:38Come here!
0:01:38 > 0:01:41'It was just something that I felt I had to do.
0:01:41 > 0:01:45'I couldn't imagine now how I would feel had I not made that decision.'
0:01:46 > 0:01:49I'm curious to see how far back the family goes
0:01:49 > 0:01:52in terms of its relationship with Liverpool,
0:01:52 > 0:01:54cos it is a port, so we could have come from anywhere.
0:01:54 > 0:01:58I'd be interested to see as well if anybody in my family
0:01:58 > 0:02:03in the past did anything like me, if anybody worked in show business,
0:02:03 > 0:02:08as it was, or if anybody has made those decisions in their life -
0:02:08 > 0:02:12to change their career and move in a different direction.
0:02:45 > 0:02:48What I learnt so far came from being on a quiz show
0:02:48 > 0:02:50and they did a bit of research.
0:02:50 > 0:02:57So far, I know that my dad - his dad worked as a warehouseman.
0:02:57 > 0:03:02And then his father, who would be my great-grandfather,
0:03:02 > 0:03:07Ernest Charles Bishop, worked his way up to be the head waiter
0:03:07 > 0:03:12around the pubs and hotels in Liverpool and Chester.
0:03:12 > 0:03:16My great-great-grandfather Charles Bishop,
0:03:16 > 0:03:22he's down on the Census in 1861 as a Lay Vicar,
0:03:22 > 0:03:25living at the time in Chichester.
0:03:25 > 0:03:26I really find that interesting
0:03:26 > 0:03:30because I don't know what a Lay Vicar is,
0:03:30 > 0:03:35and at some point it would have been him or his son that moved north.
0:03:41 > 0:03:46I think the year of his birth is about 1825
0:03:46 > 0:03:51in Paddington, London.
0:03:52 > 0:03:54Might find out he's a bear!
0:03:54 > 0:03:56So we've got...
0:03:58 > 0:04:01..a Charles Bishop married to Catherine Bishop,
0:04:01 > 0:04:05born about 1825
0:04:05 > 0:04:09and residence in 1861 in Chichester.
0:04:09 > 0:04:11Catherine...
0:04:11 > 0:04:15So this is my great-great-grandmother,
0:04:15 > 0:04:18is from Armagh in Ireland.
0:04:19 > 0:04:21(IRISH ACCENT) Armagh.
0:04:25 > 0:04:30Now that John has Catherine's name, he can search for a marriage record.
0:04:32 > 0:04:40Ernest was born around 1854, so if I look for a marriage certificate
0:04:40 > 0:04:44around about 1852 to '53,
0:04:44 > 0:04:47because we don't stand around in our family!
0:04:47 > 0:04:50Soon as you're married you get knocked up.
0:04:50 > 0:04:51OK.
0:04:51 > 0:04:56So that first one, 1846, no good.
0:04:56 > 0:05:01There's a second one, Charles Bishop, Catherine Evitt,
0:05:01 > 0:05:05married in 1852, Montreal, Quebec.
0:05:09 > 0:05:11That's a long way from Armagh in Ireland.
0:05:13 > 0:05:17John's great-great-grandparents' marriage record reveals
0:05:17 > 0:05:20that Charles Bishop was a Lance Sergeant in the Army
0:05:20 > 0:05:23when he married Catherine in Montreal in Canada.
0:05:25 > 0:05:29So how did he then go from there into the job
0:05:29 > 0:05:32that he's got as a Lay Vicar ten years later?
0:05:34 > 0:05:37So it's an interesting evolution.
0:05:39 > 0:05:42What I'd like to know is when he joined the Army
0:05:42 > 0:05:46and when he left the Army, because that will possibly give me
0:05:46 > 0:05:50an insight into what made him change his life and change his career.
0:05:55 > 0:06:00John has come to London to meet military historian Andy Robertshaw.
0:06:00 > 0:06:01Hello.
0:06:01 > 0:06:03Thanks for seeing me.
0:06:03 > 0:06:05Not at all.
0:06:05 > 0:06:08- Cos I've been doing some research... - Yeah.
0:06:08 > 0:06:14..into one of my relatives, Charles Bishop.
0:06:14 > 0:06:19And what I found is that he was a Lay Vicar in the Census in 1861.
0:06:19 > 0:06:23- Right.- But prior to that he was in the Army.
0:06:23 > 0:06:28- Yep.- And I can't work out what happened in-between.
0:06:28 > 0:06:31Well, what we can do is use this material here.
0:06:31 > 0:06:37These are the quarterly pay lists for an infantry regiment,
0:06:37 > 0:06:43and your relative, Charles Bishop, joins as a boy soldier.
0:06:43 > 0:06:45Um, and, er, there he is.
0:06:45 > 0:06:49And he's being paid at basically fourpence a day,
0:06:49 > 0:06:54not a full rate of pay, because he's actually only 14 years old.
0:06:54 > 0:06:57And he's also only 4 foot 11 inches high.
0:06:59 > 0:07:01Where's the 4 foot 11 inches?
0:07:01 > 0:07:04Well, that's his height. 4 foot 11½ inches tall.
0:07:04 > 0:07:06He's a foot smaller than some.
0:07:06 > 0:07:07Yeah, isn't he?
0:07:07 > 0:07:10When we next find records of him,
0:07:10 > 0:07:13it was getting married in 1852 in Quebec.
0:07:13 > 0:07:18Is there anything that fills in the gap between 1838 and '52?
0:07:18 > 0:07:21Well, by 1841 the regiment's moved to Bermuda.
0:07:21 > 0:07:22Bermuda?
0:07:22 > 0:07:27So he's gone to Bermuda. And look at this one here.
0:07:27 > 0:07:30"To pay at one penny extra from the 30th June."
0:07:30 > 0:07:32Why is he getting a penny extra?
0:07:32 > 0:07:34- "Band."- Yeah.
0:07:34 > 0:07:37- He's in the band. - He's in the band.
0:07:37 > 0:07:39He's in the band in Bermuda.
0:07:39 > 0:07:40Yeah. Yeah.
0:07:40 > 0:07:43So what he's done, he's now not just an infantryman,
0:07:43 > 0:07:44he's now in the band.
0:07:44 > 0:07:47And obviously, the music's really important for regiment, ceremonials,
0:07:47 > 0:07:52parades, marching. He's now getting extra pay cos he's in the band.
0:07:52 > 0:07:56Do we know what he played in the band? Have you been able to find that out?
0:07:56 > 0:07:57That's one we don't know.
0:07:57 > 0:07:59We just don't know what he's doing in the band.
0:07:59 > 0:08:01He was in Bermuda, it was probably the triangle! Eh?
0:08:01 > 0:08:04Oh, leave it! What? Come on!
0:08:04 > 0:08:06No, is it that type of show? We're having a giggle.
0:08:06 > 0:08:09It could well be. I don't think it was a steel band, though.
0:08:09 > 0:08:12But then what happens is that it gets better from there,
0:08:12 > 0:08:16because he does so well that by 1849...
0:08:16 > 0:08:18I thought so, he's the lead singer!
0:08:18 > 0:08:19Ah, no.
0:08:19 > 0:08:23He goes to Corporal, OK, in the band, yeah.
0:08:23 > 0:08:24Which, again, is even more money.
0:08:24 > 0:08:28Then the unit then moves round Canada into Ontario
0:08:28 > 0:08:31and eventually up to Montreal.
0:08:31 > 0:08:36And at that point he marries a girl who was the daughter of a soldier.
0:08:36 > 0:08:42He then comes back from Canada, yeah, back to the UK.
0:08:42 > 0:08:46And the last one gives some useful information, abbreviation,
0:08:46 > 0:08:47Sergeant...
0:08:47 > 0:08:48"Leader of the band."
0:08:48 > 0:08:51Yep. He's actually the band Sergeant.
0:08:51 > 0:08:53He is now in charge of the band.
0:08:53 > 0:08:56No longer just a musician, he's the band Sergeant.
0:08:56 > 0:09:00There he is again, 1st July to 30th September,
0:09:00 > 0:09:03but you'll see his name's crossed out in red.
0:09:03 > 0:09:05- "Discharged."- Yeah.
0:09:05 > 0:09:10"30th September on payment of £5."
0:09:10 > 0:09:15It's the equivalent of today between £8,000 and £10,000.
0:09:15 > 0:09:17He pays the Paymaster to leave the Army.
0:09:17 > 0:09:20So he bought himself out?
0:09:20 > 0:09:21He bought himself out.
0:09:21 > 0:09:24And the critical thing about that is, that he would have been
0:09:24 > 0:09:27entitled within six years to a pension.
0:09:27 > 0:09:28So he's gone...
0:09:28 > 0:09:30But that wouldn't give you more of an incentive to stay in?
0:09:30 > 0:09:33There must have been something that said that it's time to get out now.
0:09:33 > 0:09:35But it's a hell of a risk.
0:09:35 > 0:09:37There must be a reason for that.
0:09:37 > 0:09:39And as to what his wife thought, I don't know.
0:09:39 > 0:09:42She's heavily pregnant on that voyage all the way back.
0:09:42 > 0:09:44So he left the Army...
0:09:44 > 0:09:45Yeah.
0:09:45 > 0:09:48..just when he needed the security most.
0:09:48 > 0:09:51- Yeah.- And he actually paid the bounty to do that?
0:09:51 > 0:09:52Correct.
0:09:52 > 0:09:54But we don't know why.
0:09:56 > 0:09:59The shock is that he joined the band, but obviously the band
0:09:59 > 0:10:02seemed to be the vehicle to moving forward in the ranks.
0:10:02 > 0:10:05But what I find crazy is that
0:10:05 > 0:10:09he then goes to Canada, marries Catherine,
0:10:09 > 0:10:14comes back to England, has a baby, and then a couple of months later
0:10:14 > 0:10:20pays what would have been a king's ransom to then leave the Army.
0:10:20 > 0:10:22And that's the bit that intrigues me.
0:10:22 > 0:10:25I want to find out more about what would have motivated him
0:10:25 > 0:10:27to make such a massive decision.
0:10:32 > 0:10:37The last information that I know is that in 1861 he was in Chichester,
0:10:37 > 0:10:40so I think the most sensible thing is to go to Chichester and perhaps
0:10:40 > 0:10:44look at church records and try and fill in some gaps in-between.
0:10:49 > 0:10:53John is meeting organist Alan Thurlow, to find out what
0:10:53 > 0:10:57would have brought an Army band leader to Chichester Cathedral.
0:10:59 > 0:11:03What we have here are the Chapter Minutes
0:11:03 > 0:11:08and what we managed to find is October in 1853...
0:11:08 > 0:11:09Would you like to read that?
0:11:09 > 0:11:14"Charles Bishop was admitted as a..."
0:11:14 > 0:11:15Probationer, that's...
0:11:15 > 0:11:21Oh, "probationer for the office of a Lay Vicar of this Cathedral."
0:11:21 > 0:11:25But of course Lay Vicar is a deceptive title.
0:11:25 > 0:11:28It's actually a musical job.
0:11:28 > 0:11:29He came to sing in the choir.
0:11:29 > 0:11:33So that title of a Lay Vicar means that you work within the church
0:11:33 > 0:11:35but you're not necessarily...
0:11:35 > 0:11:36Yes...
0:11:36 > 0:11:38..a religious person.
0:11:38 > 0:11:41One would hope that the people who come and sing in the choir
0:11:41 > 0:11:43- have some feeling for what they're doing...- Yeah.
0:11:43 > 0:11:46..but the requirement of the job is a musical one,
0:11:46 > 0:11:48and it's quite a dedicated team.
0:11:48 > 0:11:52It's a small team with just six men, two altos, two tenors,
0:11:52 > 0:11:57two basses, and they're making music daily on a very high standard.
0:11:57 > 0:12:00What I'd love to do is, if it's possible,
0:12:00 > 0:12:01is to see where he actually sang.
0:12:01 > 0:12:04Yes, absolutely, that's downstairs in the Cathedral.
0:12:04 > 0:12:05Shall we go down and look at that?
0:12:18 > 0:12:20THEY CHANT EVENSONG
0:12:23 > 0:12:26The Cathedral dates back to the 11th Century,
0:12:26 > 0:12:32and Evensong is still sung daily, as it has been for hundreds of years.
0:12:43 > 0:12:46To be honest, I think that was quite an emotional experience,
0:12:46 > 0:12:50because it wasn't till I heard them sing that you realised
0:12:50 > 0:12:55not only how brilliant they are as singers but how different they are.
0:12:55 > 0:12:57You know, there were six men there with different voices,
0:12:57 > 0:13:01so he would have had to have filled the gap that was available.
0:13:01 > 0:13:05But to actually sit there and listen to the song resonate,
0:13:05 > 0:13:09and I think that he would have been singing it.
0:13:09 > 0:13:12He would have been singing like that.
0:13:12 > 0:13:17I don't know, it's like, it is... You can almost touch it.
0:13:17 > 0:13:20The lady I was sat next to said that there's a saying
0:13:20 > 0:13:25that the walls here have had 900 years of people singing
0:13:25 > 0:13:27and people laughing and people crying.
0:13:27 > 0:13:30And when you sit here it's just your turn to share it.
0:13:30 > 0:13:32And I...
0:13:32 > 0:13:33That's... That's what it felt like.
0:13:33 > 0:13:36It felt like my turn to be in the same place that he was in.
0:13:43 > 0:13:47I mean, the atmosphere in this place is gorgeous
0:13:47 > 0:13:53and I would imagine the difference is that you're a musician first,
0:13:53 > 0:13:57whereas in the Army you're a soldier first who plays music.
0:13:57 > 0:14:02And he's in the band here, you know, that's your job to be a musician.
0:14:02 > 0:14:04That was obviously what he loved doing.
0:14:04 > 0:14:09So I think that gave him that sense of following his own...
0:14:09 > 0:14:13I suppose his own passion, which is really odd
0:14:13 > 0:14:15when I think of me own journey,
0:14:15 > 0:14:19because he came to music relatively late in his Army career.
0:14:19 > 0:14:23He was in the Army for seven years before he appears
0:14:23 > 0:14:26to be in the band, and then he decides to take a big chance
0:14:26 > 0:14:30by leaving the Army to carry on being more of a musician
0:14:30 > 0:14:34than a soldier, which does mirror, to some extent, my own life.
0:14:36 > 0:14:39But there was another side to Charles' musical career.
0:14:39 > 0:14:43Alan is taking John to Chichester's Assembly Room.
0:14:43 > 0:14:46So this would have been the main place for him to come and play?
0:14:46 > 0:14:47Yes.
0:14:47 > 0:14:50It was here that Charles was able to break away from church music
0:14:50 > 0:14:55and make his mark as a popular musician and entertainer.
0:14:55 > 0:14:58The Assembly Room was at the heart of Chichester's lively social life,
0:14:58 > 0:15:01where fashionable society would gather for dances
0:15:01 > 0:15:04and to hear some of the most famous musicians of the day.
0:15:07 > 0:15:10And we know this is the place, for example, um, they had
0:15:10 > 0:15:13balls to celebrate the Battle of Trafalgar
0:15:13 > 0:15:15and the Coronation of William IV.
0:15:15 > 0:15:19It's a great social centre as well as being used for all the concerts.
0:15:19 > 0:15:21But we've got in here some documents,
0:15:21 > 0:15:26some of the concerts that Charles Bishop took part in.
0:15:26 > 0:15:30So shall we just spread those out, if we put ourselves down here.
0:15:30 > 0:15:34And this first one, Hampshire Telegraph and Sussex Chronicle,
0:15:34 > 0:15:39and if you look here, there is a little bit about the concert and Charles Bishop.
0:15:39 > 0:15:41"There was a concert on Monday night.
0:15:41 > 0:15:44"Not the least pleasing feature of the entertainment was
0:15:44 > 0:15:49"the performance of two songs, on the Cornet-a-Piston,
0:15:49 > 0:15:54"by Mr Charles Bishop, the newly appointed vicar of the Cathedral.
0:15:54 > 0:15:57"The audience was not large but fashionable."
0:15:57 > 0:15:59That's a wonderful end, isn't it?
0:15:59 > 0:16:03I've done loads of gigs where the audience hasn't been large.
0:16:03 > 0:16:07- But fashionable.- But certainly not been fashionable, either!
0:16:07 > 0:16:09And then there's another one, there's one here.
0:16:09 > 0:16:13The next one is in 1859.
0:16:13 > 0:16:16Oh, "Goodwood races closed, as usual, with a ball,
0:16:16 > 0:16:17"which was given Friday last,
0:16:17 > 0:16:22"in the Assembly Room under the most distinguished patronage.
0:16:22 > 0:16:28"Dancing commenced early and was kept up with spirit until the morning.
0:16:28 > 0:16:34"The entire arrangements were under the superintendence
0:16:34 > 0:16:39"of Mr Charles Bishop, and gave great satisfaction."
0:16:39 > 0:16:41That's rather nice, isn't it?
0:16:41 > 0:16:44Yeah, it's a better review than some of the ones I've had!
0:16:44 > 0:16:46- That is great, that, isn't it?- Yes.
0:16:46 > 0:16:49But actually, I mean, his reputation might have been slightly wider,
0:16:49 > 0:16:53er, than that, um, because he also composed some music.
0:16:53 > 0:16:58And we've got some copies here of some of the works.
0:16:58 > 0:17:04There's The Watergate Polka, and that's the original size of it.
0:17:04 > 0:17:06"A Lay Vicar of Chichester Cathedral.
0:17:06 > 0:17:09"A professor of the cornet-a-piston."
0:17:09 > 0:17:11But what instrument is this written for?
0:17:11 > 0:17:13This is actually written for the piano.
0:17:13 > 0:17:17Oh, right. I mean, can...can we hear this?
0:17:17 > 0:17:19Do you want to hear a little extract from it?
0:17:19 > 0:17:21Let's move across to the piano.
0:17:23 > 0:17:25So this is just the opening of it.
0:17:25 > 0:17:27It starts with an introduction.
0:17:27 > 0:17:29JOLLY-SOUNDING INTRODUCTION
0:17:31 > 0:17:35And then a kind of theme that comes and goes during the piece.
0:18:13 > 0:18:15And that gives you a kind of flavour.
0:18:15 > 0:18:17It's all sort of dancey type music.
0:18:17 > 0:18:20You can imagine in this room people dancing to that.
0:18:20 > 0:18:22Yes. Yes, indeed.
0:18:22 > 0:18:26In the style of... It's a bit breath-taking,
0:18:26 > 0:18:28- because it's like hearing his voice, hearing his music.- Yes.
0:18:28 > 0:18:30As you're listening to it,
0:18:30 > 0:18:34it's impossible not to go, # Ding, ding, ding, da-ding, ding. #
0:18:34 > 0:18:37- Yes. Yes.- Oh, fantastic. That was beautiful.
0:18:37 > 0:18:39- Can I keep that?- Yes.
0:18:39 > 0:18:43But the surprising thing I think, to us, is he'd moved here, he'd got his
0:18:43 > 0:18:50family and bringing them up here, and then in 1864 he moves away.
0:18:50 > 0:18:55Um, and it's perhaps slightly a mystery because the chapter minutes
0:18:55 > 0:18:59show that he was actually given his notice by the Cathedral. And...
0:18:59 > 0:19:01So he was sacked.
0:19:01 > 0:19:05And there's no reason given at all as to why.
0:19:05 > 0:19:08So we're...we're left wondering, er, what...what happened,
0:19:08 > 0:19:13why did he fall out of favour, and why did he decide to move on?
0:19:16 > 0:19:17Hm.
0:19:20 > 0:19:23Coming here has been fascinating, and to hear the music
0:19:23 > 0:19:27was brilliant, it was something to think that he put it together
0:19:27 > 0:19:30and you could see his name in the corner, Charles Bishop.
0:19:30 > 0:19:32But, like all of this, it's got more questions than answers now,
0:19:32 > 0:19:35because I've filled in that gap of what he did when he came
0:19:35 > 0:19:40here in 1853, but to leave in 1864 and to be given notice...
0:19:40 > 0:19:42Now, I don't know what that notice was served on
0:19:42 > 0:19:45and whether that was something that he wanted to happen,
0:19:45 > 0:19:48whether it was something that they...decided to get rid of him.
0:19:48 > 0:19:51I don't know. And that's the next stage, really, is to try
0:19:51 > 0:19:54and find out what happened next.
0:19:54 > 0:19:58I can't imagine that they would have upped sticks from Chichester.
0:19:58 > 0:20:02As much as anything, the job came with a house, he would have had to
0:20:02 > 0:20:06find a house, he would have had to find some other form of employment.
0:20:07 > 0:20:10Got some newspapers down here as well,
0:20:10 > 0:20:12so I'll just go and get the volume.
0:20:12 > 0:20:15John decides to search local newspapers,
0:20:15 > 0:20:18with the help of archivist Nicola Court.
0:20:18 > 0:20:20I'll just put this out here for you.
0:20:23 > 0:20:25This is the West Sussex Gazette,
0:20:25 > 0:20:27which we might be able to find something out
0:20:27 > 0:20:30about your ancestor in here. Um...
0:20:30 > 0:20:321865.
0:20:32 > 0:20:33Yeah.
0:20:46 > 0:20:52Oh. "Mr C Bishop, having received the appointment of Lay Vicar
0:20:52 > 0:20:58"in York Cathedral, begs to announce that he will give a farewell
0:20:58 > 0:21:01"concert on Thursday, 3rd August, on which occasion
0:21:01 > 0:21:05"he will be assisted by the Lay Vicars of Chichester Cathedral."
0:21:05 > 0:21:08So that's pretty good, York Cathedral.
0:21:08 > 0:21:13Bit of a step up from Chichester, I would think. Lay Vicar at York Cathedral.
0:21:13 > 0:21:19So...he obviously left Chichester Cathedral on good terms?
0:21:19 > 0:21:21Looks... Well, yeah.
0:21:21 > 0:21:24If the Lay Vicars of Chichester Cathedral are going to do it...
0:21:24 > 0:21:25And the organist, yeah.
0:21:25 > 0:21:28..and he's giving a farewell concert, which means
0:21:28 > 0:21:33- he obviously feels that there's an audience to say farewell to.- Mm.
0:21:33 > 0:21:39So he's definitely leaving Chichester with his head held high.
0:21:39 > 0:21:44- Definitely.- Is there any other information that we can look at as to what happened after this bit?
0:21:44 > 0:21:47Obviously, we know now that he went up to York Minster,
0:21:47 > 0:21:50so we could perhaps go and do, er, some searching on the internet and
0:21:50 > 0:21:53try and pick up some newspapers for the York area and see if we can find
0:21:53 > 0:21:58any information about what happened to him after he left Chichester.
0:21:58 > 0:21:59So we know he went to York,
0:21:59 > 0:22:03so it might be worth maybe searching for York Cathedral.
0:22:03 > 0:22:05York Cathedral.
0:22:05 > 0:22:10We know when he left, which was... August 1865, to start from.
0:22:10 > 0:22:14Maybe give it five years, so maybe try to the end of 1869
0:22:14 > 0:22:16or something and see if that...see where that picks up.
0:22:16 > 0:22:17OK, '69.
0:22:20 > 0:22:25"The Freeman's Journal under Published Amusements in Dublin."
0:22:27 > 0:22:28Dublin?
0:22:28 > 0:22:32"The Queen's Minstrels, the accomplished vocalists,
0:22:32 > 0:22:35"dancers, comedians and humorous,
0:22:35 > 0:22:40"beautifully harmonised quartets and choruses, screaming comic acts,
0:22:40 > 0:22:45"grotesque and eccentric dances and comic songs and sayings."
0:22:48 > 0:22:50Minstrel.
0:22:50 > 0:22:52Minstrel!
0:22:52 > 0:22:55These are the...ba, ba, ba... No way.
0:22:57 > 0:22:58I don't believe it.
0:22:58 > 0:23:03And in the bass section we've got "Mr Charles Bishop,
0:23:03 > 0:23:09"Late Bass Profundo of York Minster and Chichester Cathedral."
0:23:09 > 0:23:15Late. Which seems to suggest that he's left York Minster.
0:23:15 > 0:23:22So he's 50, and he's jibbed his job to almost run away
0:23:22 > 0:23:26with the circus to join the minstrels and get on the road.
0:23:28 > 0:23:32Black-faced minstrels first appeared in Britain in the 1830s,
0:23:32 > 0:23:36and were hugely popular until the turn of the century.
0:23:36 > 0:23:39The tradition began in America,
0:23:39 > 0:23:43with white performers blackening their faces with burnt cork.
0:23:43 > 0:23:44But after the Civil War
0:23:44 > 0:23:49several all-black companies toured both Britain and America.
0:23:49 > 0:23:52The minstrel shows drew on Afro-American music,
0:23:52 > 0:23:55as well as European jigs and reels.
0:23:57 > 0:24:01Although the shows caricatured life on the slave plantations, some of
0:24:01 > 0:24:06the traditions came from the slaves making fun of the plantation owners.
0:24:06 > 0:24:09Shows would feature stock comic characters,
0:24:09 > 0:24:14female impersonators and wild novelty acts.
0:24:17 > 0:24:20Oh, hang on, there's more here!
0:24:20 > 0:24:24December 13th, 1867, Theatre Royal, Hull,
0:24:24 > 0:24:26where I've actually gigged.
0:24:28 > 0:24:31Oh, there's another one. "Sam Hague's Minstrels.
0:24:31 > 0:24:35"This clever company of Negro minstrels enters upon
0:24:35 > 0:24:39"the second week of their engagement at St George's Hall."
0:24:40 > 0:24:42I've gigged there as well!
0:24:43 > 0:24:49Wow. "Yesterday evening, there was a very full house."
0:24:49 > 0:24:53There was when I was there! "From first to last, the audience
0:24:53 > 0:24:56"is kept well-entertained." Can't say the same when I was there!
0:24:56 > 0:24:59"And the songs by Mr Charles Bishop
0:24:59 > 0:25:03"and Master Pearson were much applauded.
0:25:03 > 0:25:08"Mr Sam Hague's minstrels are certainly deserving of a visit.
0:25:08 > 0:25:12"They are probably the best as well as the most numerous troupe
0:25:12 > 0:25:14"that has been seen in Bradford."
0:25:16 > 0:25:18Blinking heck, Charlie!
0:25:19 > 0:25:22He is in a travelling minstrels' show!
0:25:22 > 0:25:27This is a man who was a boy soldier, and when he gets to his 50s, thinks,
0:25:27 > 0:25:32"No, I now want to be part of a Negro minstrel group."
0:25:32 > 0:25:36That was it... He got blacked-up and sung on the stage!
0:25:36 > 0:25:39I think that's just unbelievable!
0:25:39 > 0:25:42I wasn't expecting any of that, I've got to be honest with you.
0:25:42 > 0:25:45That's a complete curveball!
0:25:45 > 0:25:49I had this view of Charles Bishop as a stern...
0:25:49 > 0:25:54When we were playing his music and getting a view of his life,
0:25:54 > 0:25:58I almost thought if he walked down the street I would recognise him.
0:25:58 > 0:26:03I wouldn't if he was doing this! Not a chance! I wasn't expecting that!
0:26:03 > 0:26:06Top boy. Well done, Charlie!
0:26:06 > 0:26:08How you lived your life!
0:26:09 > 0:26:12I don't know how I'll explain this to me kids.
0:26:14 > 0:26:15Or me dad!
0:26:20 > 0:26:24John is on his way to St George's Hall in Bradford,
0:26:24 > 0:26:27a theatre where he and his great-great-grandfather,
0:26:27 > 0:26:29Charles Bishop, have both performed.
0:26:29 > 0:26:34The weird thing about coming to Bradford is...
0:26:34 > 0:26:38take the next link in the chain with Charles Bishop's life to find out
0:26:38 > 0:26:43what his life would have been like as this performing minstrel.
0:26:43 > 0:26:46And whether it was a good position to be in.
0:26:46 > 0:26:50I'm looking forward to filling in those gaps, really,
0:26:50 > 0:26:54and just getting a better sense of him as a man.
0:26:54 > 0:26:57This Victorian theatre has changed very little
0:26:57 > 0:27:00since Charles Bishop appeared here in the 1870s.
0:27:01 > 0:27:03I've gigged here and I've loved it.
0:27:03 > 0:27:06Every time I've come, it's just so brilliant.
0:27:06 > 0:27:09This is one of the first big theatres
0:27:09 > 0:27:11when I kind of like made the breakthrough.
0:27:11 > 0:27:13I remember saying to my tour manager,
0:27:13 > 0:27:15"You're not going to beat that for a gig."
0:27:15 > 0:27:19To think that he was there, performing, is just mind-blowing.
0:27:21 > 0:27:25This is dressing room number one in St George's Hall in Bradford.
0:27:25 > 0:27:29So I've sat there, at those seats, prior to going on the stage
0:27:29 > 0:27:33and performing, and, er, for all we know,
0:27:33 > 0:27:37Charles Bishop could have sat there as well, in exactly the same seat.
0:27:37 > 0:27:40The backstage may have changed,
0:27:40 > 0:27:43dressing room one definitely would have been the same.
0:27:43 > 0:27:46But definitely to go from dressing room one to get on the stage,
0:27:46 > 0:27:48you walk straight out that way,
0:27:48 > 0:27:52which is I think where we should go, and follow definitely his footpath.
0:27:54 > 0:27:56Up here.
0:28:05 > 0:28:09There we go. Look at that.
0:28:11 > 0:28:14John is meeting theatre historian Jim Davis.
0:28:14 > 0:28:18- Nice to meet you.- Nice to meet you. - What a beautiful place.
0:28:19 > 0:28:21Staggering, isn't it?
0:28:21 > 0:28:25So, I believe, Jim, you know a little bit of what
0:28:25 > 0:28:29my great-great-granddad's life as a minstrel might have been like?
0:28:29 > 0:28:32What would the show have been structured like?
0:28:32 > 0:28:35Well, it would have been a good family entertainment evening
0:28:35 > 0:28:39first of all, and it would have been incredibly lively.
0:28:39 > 0:28:43So for Charles Bishop to join a minstrel group,
0:28:43 > 0:28:46he would have definitely had a black face when he was singing?
0:28:46 > 0:28:52Yes. And I've got a picture here which you might be interested in.
0:28:52 > 0:28:54- It's a picture of Sam Hague's Minstrels.- Oh, right.
0:28:54 > 0:28:57- And I think you can take this book away with you.- Oh, can I?
0:28:57 > 0:29:01He's probably somewhere in there, within that picture.
0:29:01 > 0:29:02The troupe is represented,
0:29:02 > 0:29:05and he would have been a member of that troupe.
0:29:05 > 0:29:07So that gives you a bit of an idea of...
0:29:07 > 0:29:11That is brilliant! That's better than some of my tour posters!
0:29:11 > 0:29:14- And he's mentioned in the book as well.- In this book?
0:29:14 > 0:29:16Yes. There we are.
0:29:16 > 0:29:20Ah! OK. In the year 1880... 1880!
0:29:20 > 0:29:24So he was still at it in 1880. He was born in 1825.
0:29:24 > 0:29:27So he's 55 years of age.
0:29:27 > 0:29:32"Charles Bishop, a powerful basso profundo.
0:29:32 > 0:29:36"His favourite battle horse was the old song of
0:29:36 > 0:29:38"Every Bullet Has Its Billet...
0:29:40 > 0:29:42"..who remained with the company for many years."
0:29:44 > 0:29:47So he was still with the company after 1880?
0:29:47 > 0:29:49Sounds like it.
0:29:49 > 0:29:51Would that have been a good career move?
0:29:51 > 0:29:54I think it probably was, actually.
0:29:54 > 0:29:57Er, because people think of minstrels as being, er,
0:29:57 > 0:30:02- rather like music hall performers... - Yeah.- ..as itinerant performers,
0:30:02 > 0:30:05but the best minstrel troupes in the 19th century,
0:30:05 > 0:30:10the best British minstrel troupes were actually highly respectable.
0:30:10 > 0:30:13They were one of the few forms of popular entertainment
0:30:13 > 0:30:16that clergymen would take their wives and families to.
0:30:16 > 0:30:18- Oh, really?- Children were taken.
0:30:18 > 0:30:21The better minstrel acts were considered highly respectable,
0:30:21 > 0:30:25and there's no vulgarity, as there was in music hall, in their acts.
0:30:25 > 0:30:28So he's performing to the higher end of society.
0:30:28 > 0:30:30Would that have meant that he was getting well paid?
0:30:30 > 0:30:31I think it would.
0:30:31 > 0:30:35It was probably one of the best ways for anybody with singing talent,
0:30:35 > 0:30:39um, and musical talent to make a living outside the concert hall
0:30:39 > 0:30:42or the opera stage.
0:30:42 > 0:30:45So I suspect it was a much more lucrative profession
0:30:45 > 0:30:48than working for the Church.
0:30:48 > 0:30:51You might also be interested in this picture, which actually shows
0:30:51 > 0:30:54Sam Hague's Minstrels performing in St James' Hall in Liverpool.
0:30:54 > 0:30:56Oh, St James'!
0:30:56 > 0:31:01And Sam Hague's troupe based itself in Liverpool for many years
0:31:01 > 0:31:04in the latter part of the 19th century.
0:31:04 > 0:31:09That may well explain the next stage in my family's heritage.
0:31:09 > 0:31:11That's the thing I've not understood
0:31:11 > 0:31:13all the way through this process.
0:31:13 > 0:31:16I was expecting just to have a long line of...
0:31:16 > 0:31:19of people leading to Liverpool from Ireland
0:31:19 > 0:31:25or...I was not expecting to have a Lay Vicar turned minstrel.
0:31:25 > 0:31:29But the minstrel path is what took him to the city of my birth.
0:31:30 > 0:31:34It was probably a very good place to live in this period.
0:31:34 > 0:31:35It still is.
0:31:39 > 0:31:42Liverpool in the 1880s was one of the wealthiest
0:31:42 > 0:31:45and most important cities in the world.
0:31:45 > 0:31:47As the British Empire's second largest port,
0:31:47 > 0:31:49it was the gateway to America and beyond,
0:31:49 > 0:31:53and had a vibrant entertainment scene to rival London.
0:31:54 > 0:31:57Its theatres drew huge international crowds passing through
0:31:57 > 0:32:01the city, who in turn brought musical influences
0:32:01 > 0:32:04from Italian opera and sailors' sea shanties
0:32:04 > 0:32:07to Irish ballads and Negro spirituals.
0:32:07 > 0:32:10For anyone with a love of music, it was the place to be.
0:32:13 > 0:32:16John knows that Charles Bishop first came here with
0:32:16 > 0:32:18Sam Hague's Minstrels.
0:32:18 > 0:32:19He wants to discover if this was
0:32:19 > 0:32:22when the family put down roots in Liverpool.
0:32:22 > 0:32:25He's come to the Victorian Playhouse Theatre
0:32:25 > 0:32:28to meet local historian Frank Carlyle.
0:32:30 > 0:32:34And I have a couple of play bills, and here they are.
0:32:34 > 0:32:39This was the most-seen show in Liverpool,
0:32:39 > 0:32:45and you had a full orchestra, you had up to 60 chorus people,
0:32:45 > 0:32:48so it was a very spectacular event.
0:32:48 > 0:32:54"Messrs Ferguson and Mack in their Irish eccentricities."
0:32:54 > 0:32:59So they might have been the first Riverdancers.
0:32:59 > 0:33:02- We don't know, do we? - We'll never know.
0:33:02 > 0:33:05That might have been their Irish eccentricities!
0:33:05 > 0:33:07And also here as well, "Professor Evans
0:33:07 > 0:33:12"and his wonderful performing dogs, goats and monkeys."
0:33:12 > 0:33:15Yeah, well, I'll just show you them, John, they're up at the back here!
0:33:15 > 0:33:19But exactly, this is what kind of a show...
0:33:19 > 0:33:21So it was a proper family show.
0:33:21 > 0:33:23It was family-orientated,
0:33:23 > 0:33:25and everything was geared up to entertain.
0:33:25 > 0:33:28And if you have a look, just there, see?
0:33:28 > 0:33:34Oh. "Bass Song. Rocked In The Cradle Of The Deep, Mr C Bishop.
0:33:36 > 0:33:41"Special attention performance on New Year's Day at 3 o'clock."
0:33:41 > 0:33:42Well, this is it, it was a matinee.
0:33:42 > 0:33:45You know, there was no holidays for these people.
0:33:45 > 0:33:48They must have been absolutely shattered.
0:33:48 > 0:33:50But that's just the way it is.
0:33:50 > 0:33:53It is, though, you're working when everyone else is out,
0:33:53 > 0:33:58- but that's obviously the life he chose.- Yeah.
0:33:58 > 0:34:02How long was he with Sam Hague's group, do you know?
0:34:02 > 0:34:07Well, he was under contract for 14 years.
0:34:07 > 0:34:13However, by 1882, he actually went to America to tour.
0:34:13 > 0:34:14Touring?
0:34:14 > 0:34:16Touring in America in 1882.
0:34:18 > 0:34:20John has come to Liverpool Library to see
0:34:20 > 0:34:23if he can find any information about Charles' American tour
0:34:23 > 0:34:25and whether he then settled in Liverpool.
0:34:25 > 0:34:27Roger. John Bishop.
0:34:27 > 0:34:30He's being helped by researcher Roger Hull.
0:34:39 > 0:34:42New York passenger list.
0:34:42 > 0:34:43Charles Bishop,
0:34:43 > 0:34:48arrival date into New York was the 12th September, 1882.
0:34:48 > 0:34:50He was aged 57.
0:34:51 > 0:34:55These are some reviews of the minstrel company in America.
0:34:55 > 0:34:57- Hague's?- Yeah.
0:34:57 > 0:35:01"British Operatic Minstrels opened a week's engagement last night.
0:35:01 > 0:35:04"The entertainment furnished by this company is somewhat
0:35:04 > 0:35:07"different from that which is usually given by minstrel troupes
0:35:07 > 0:35:12"and free from jokes of a questionable character."
0:35:12 > 0:35:14Questionable character!
0:35:14 > 0:35:16"The music is of good order." That's good!
0:35:16 > 0:35:18"And the solos are well rendered.
0:35:18 > 0:35:22"And in the choruses the voices blend harmoniously."
0:35:22 > 0:35:26So he was over there as one of the singers with the Americans,
0:35:26 > 0:35:29in New York.
0:35:29 > 0:35:32Big Charlie went to break America.
0:35:32 > 0:35:33Top lad.
0:35:35 > 0:35:38Finally, we've got his obituary here in another paper.
0:35:40 > 0:35:43He obviously had an interesting life,
0:35:43 > 0:35:45so I'll leave you to read through that.
0:35:45 > 0:35:48- All right, thank you.- Bye. - Thanks a lot, Roger.
0:35:50 > 0:35:55He was 74, and he was obviously very well-respected.
0:35:55 > 0:35:59"General regret amongst a large circle will be created
0:35:59 > 0:36:02"by the announcement of the death in Liverpool,"
0:36:02 > 0:36:05so he came back from America,
0:36:05 > 0:36:07"the death in Liverpool of Mr Charles Bishop,
0:36:07 > 0:36:11"long and honourably identified with music in various phases
0:36:11 > 0:36:15"as a bass singer of considerable power.
0:36:15 > 0:36:19"Latterly, he settled in Liverpool and has been a welcome guest
0:36:19 > 0:36:22"at musical gatherings besides being attached to the choirs
0:36:22 > 0:36:25"of St Margaret's and St Dustin's churches."
0:36:29 > 0:36:30Yeah.
0:36:32 > 0:36:34He had a good life.
0:36:37 > 0:36:41John is on his way to the Great Western docks,
0:36:41 > 0:36:44where Charles would have travelled from.
0:36:44 > 0:36:48Performing was the big thing that he was after and also what's
0:36:48 > 0:36:52great for me is the fact that he was doing it in his advanced years.
0:36:52 > 0:36:55You know, I came to my life, this life late,
0:36:55 > 0:37:00and I always wondered how long my career would be,
0:37:00 > 0:37:04but it's nice to think that when he was in his 60s he was still at it.
0:37:04 > 0:37:07I've got a real sense for him now as an adventurous bloke
0:37:07 > 0:37:10and fun-loving.
0:37:13 > 0:37:15You've got to say he had... he had something about him,
0:37:15 > 0:37:19that definitely I can relate to. Definitely.
0:37:19 > 0:37:21I always thought I was the first person in our family
0:37:21 > 0:37:25to go into show business, and I clearly wasn't.
0:37:25 > 0:37:28And to be fair, you know, I didn't...I haven't done it
0:37:28 > 0:37:31as long as he's done it and to the level that he's done it.
0:37:31 > 0:37:33I think that's been an education.
0:37:33 > 0:37:35That's opened the doors to me.
0:37:35 > 0:37:37Because it's made me think that, yeah,
0:37:37 > 0:37:40that feeling that I get on the stage of thinking, this is where I was
0:37:40 > 0:37:44meant to be, was obviously exactly the same feeling that Charles got.
0:37:44 > 0:37:47And that's why he kept on changing his path to follow his dreams,
0:37:47 > 0:37:49which is brilliant.
0:37:49 > 0:37:54I wish I'd have met him. I think we could have had a laugh.
0:37:54 > 0:37:57Now I know why Charlie brought the family to Liverpool.
0:37:57 > 0:38:01I know that his kids then stayed, particularly my dad's granddad,
0:38:01 > 0:38:04Ernest, he was the one who really established them in Liverpool.
0:38:04 > 0:38:08What I don't know is my dad's grandmother, Ernest's wife,
0:38:08 > 0:38:11I don't know what the link is there and what the Scouse connection is.
0:38:11 > 0:38:14And that's the next stage of the journey, really, trying to tie that up.
0:38:15 > 0:38:19John is now interested in looking at the other side of his father's
0:38:19 > 0:38:22family and finding out where his great-grandmother,
0:38:22 > 0:38:24Elizabeth Beaton, came from.
0:38:28 > 0:38:31He returns to London to meet Roy Stockdill
0:38:31 > 0:38:33at the Society of Genealogists.
0:38:37 > 0:38:41We've got here the birth certificate of your great-grandmother,
0:38:41 > 0:38:43Elizabeth Beaton.
0:38:43 > 0:38:46I think you'll find it interesting, so I want you to have a look at it.
0:38:46 > 0:38:49And if there's anything you'd like to ask me about it,
0:38:49 > 0:38:53- I'd be delighted to see if I can help you.- OK.
0:38:53 > 0:38:57She was born in 1862, Landport, Southampton.
0:38:57 > 0:39:00Mother's name's Elizabeth. Thomas Beaton was her father.
0:39:00 > 0:39:07I'm trying to find out what brought her to Liverpool.
0:39:07 > 0:39:11Well, bearing in mind that her father was in the Navy,
0:39:11 > 0:39:15there is a possibility that Portsmouth was a huge naval base
0:39:15 > 0:39:19and Liverpool was a port as well, maybe that's where the connection is.
0:39:19 > 0:39:21Can you explain what this says here?
0:39:21 > 0:39:25- Ah, that is her father's occupation.- Occupation.
0:39:25 > 0:39:29- He was a stoker on Her Majesty's Ship Pigmy.- Oh.
0:39:29 > 0:39:32What would I do if I want to get some further research?
0:39:32 > 0:39:35Well, I think possibly what you need to do is go online,
0:39:35 > 0:39:39look at various websites that have the, you know, naval records,
0:39:39 > 0:39:43Royal Naval records, and see if you can find him in those.
0:39:50 > 0:39:52Ah, there he is.
0:39:53 > 0:39:55Thomas Beaton.
0:39:55 > 0:39:59"We've examined the before-mentioned boy as to
0:39:59 > 0:40:02"his fitness for Her Majesty's Navy.
0:40:02 > 0:40:07"He is a well-grown, stout lad of perfectly sound
0:40:07 > 0:40:11"and healthy constitution and intelligent,
0:40:11 > 0:40:15"and we consider him fit in all respects."
0:40:15 > 0:40:19John has discovered that, as Charles Bishop had joined the Army as a boy soldier,
0:40:19 > 0:40:23Thomas Beaton also joined the Navy young, when he was just 17.
0:40:24 > 0:40:28Look at that. Look at that.
0:40:28 > 0:40:29That's his mark.
0:40:33 > 0:40:39Oh! He received a medal, a Crimea Medal.
0:40:39 > 0:40:44He was in the Crimean War serving on a ship called "Harpy".
0:40:44 > 0:40:47Medal was delivered on board to Thomas Beaton.
0:40:47 > 0:40:50Don't know what it says he's got the medal for.
0:40:50 > 0:40:52Mm.
0:40:55 > 0:41:00Well, it looks here that on this ship,
0:41:00 > 0:41:02on the Tiger,
0:41:02 > 0:41:06he was court-martialled for something.
0:41:06 > 0:41:11April '55 is the date of the court martial.
0:41:12 > 0:41:14He's on a ship called Tiger
0:41:14 > 0:41:19and then he has a court martial for which he goes to prison.
0:41:19 > 0:41:21But why?
0:41:21 > 0:41:23That'll be worth looking into.
0:41:26 > 0:41:32What I find quite interesting with these two stories is Charles
0:41:32 > 0:41:35went into the army at 14
0:41:35 > 0:41:39and seems to have worked through the ranks and is clearly,
0:41:39 > 0:41:42by the time he's an adult man, he's educated.
0:41:42 > 0:41:48Thomas signs with an X, so to me it appears that he was
0:41:48 > 0:41:51a man of little choices or didn't feel he had any choices.
0:41:51 > 0:41:54But that's a story to find, isn't it?
0:41:57 > 0:42:03John has come to Portsmouth to meet naval historian Andrew Lambert on board HMS Warrior.
0:42:03 > 0:42:08He hopes to find out more about Thomas' life as a stoker in the Victorian Navy.
0:42:10 > 0:42:14- Ah, Andrew.- John.- Hiya. - Good to meet you.- Nice to meet you.
0:42:14 > 0:42:17- Thank you. Lovely ship. - Yeah, it's magnificent.
0:42:17 > 0:42:21So I wanted to meet you because I'm looking into my great-great-granddad, Thomas Beaton.
0:42:21 > 0:42:24I've got some of his service records.
0:42:24 > 0:42:29The thing that stood out to me, really, he's got a court martial
0:42:29 > 0:42:31and then spends a period of time in prison.
0:42:31 > 0:42:34So I wanted to try and understand what had gone on there
0:42:34 > 0:42:38and also, really, what his life would have been like on a ship,
0:42:38 > 0:42:40cos he's listed down as being a stoker.
0:42:40 > 0:42:45I mean, my impression, in all honestly, is he's joined the Navy
0:42:45 > 0:42:49because he didn't have much else to do in terms of options.
0:42:49 > 0:42:52Is that a fair assessment, or was joining the Navy a good...
0:42:52 > 0:42:54a good opportunity for somebody?
0:42:54 > 0:42:57This is going to be a really aspirational thing to do.
0:42:57 > 0:42:59First of all, it's going to teach him to be a sailor, then it
0:42:59 > 0:43:03teaches him to be a stoker, which is a skilled and very demanding job.
0:43:03 > 0:43:05To be a working-class man in the mid-19th century,
0:43:05 > 0:43:09a skilled man in the Royal Navy, is about as high as you'll get.
0:43:09 > 0:43:11This ship, it really sums the whole thing up.
0:43:11 > 0:43:14This is a ship that he would have seen during his service career.
0:43:14 > 0:43:18- We can go below and have a look at where they live. - Oh, brilliant, yeah.
0:43:18 > 0:43:19Thank you.
0:43:21 > 0:43:25So we're going down now into the stokehold,
0:43:25 > 0:43:28and when Thomas comes on duty, coming down this way,
0:43:28 > 0:43:31he'd have found that the heat would be rising up from the engines.
0:43:31 > 0:43:33You've got a huge amount of coal being burned.
0:43:33 > 0:43:35Why would you pick to do this, then,
0:43:35 > 0:43:39cos this seems like the most grimmest job on the ship?
0:43:39 > 0:43:43- Extra money, shorter shifts, it's got potential.- Oh.
0:43:43 > 0:43:46And here we are. This is the stokehold.
0:43:46 > 0:43:50- Wow!- The sheer scale of it, you know, you've got ten boilers,
0:43:50 > 0:43:53six in this boiler room, four in the back boiler room,
0:43:53 > 0:43:57each of them with two fronts, and they're using so much coal
0:43:57 > 0:44:00they need these mechanical hoists to get the coal out of the bunkers
0:44:00 > 0:44:04fast enough for the stokers to ram it into the stokehold.
0:44:04 > 0:44:09Working the ship's engines was intensive and back-breaking work,
0:44:09 > 0:44:13shovelling coal in stifling heat for hours at a time,
0:44:13 > 0:44:15and with the risk of serious burns.
0:44:16 > 0:44:20There was no ventilation in the stokeholds, and the temperature
0:44:20 > 0:44:24of the furnaces could soar to 100 degrees, causing men to pass out.
0:44:25 > 0:44:30But coal-fired steam propulsion gave the Royal Navy's warships a military advantage.
0:44:30 > 0:44:34No longer dependent on prevailing winds, they could now take
0:44:34 > 0:44:37direct routes with increased speed and manoeuvrability.
0:44:37 > 0:44:42Stokers like Thomas were at the heart of this new technology.
0:44:45 > 0:44:49So how many men would work in a space like this?
0:44:49 > 0:44:5140 men, stoking.
0:44:51 > 0:44:55And stoking's basically shovelling coal in?
0:44:55 > 0:44:57It's a combination of getting the coal in there
0:44:57 > 0:44:59and then making sure it burns efficiently.
0:44:59 > 0:45:02So you've got this huge grate area here
0:45:02 > 0:45:05and the air is coming in the bottom, it's going through the coal
0:45:05 > 0:45:08and the hot air is then heating the water up here.
0:45:08 > 0:45:10So this is your boiler, this is very hot.
0:45:10 > 0:45:13You don't want to be touching this when the boiler's running.
0:45:13 > 0:45:15It's about 120 degrees Fahrenheit down here
0:45:15 > 0:45:17when everything is running at full speed.
0:45:17 > 0:45:20- I'm going to do what me great-great-granddad did? - Yeah, absolutely.
0:45:26 > 0:45:28- I mean, just doing that...- Yeah.
0:45:31 > 0:45:36- How long would he be down here doing this?- Shift, four hours. - It's a hell of a workout, innit?
0:45:38 > 0:45:42So for Thomas and making that decision to be a stoker,
0:45:42 > 0:45:45and to join the Navy, has it been a positive step up?
0:45:45 > 0:45:50Yeah, absolutely. He's joined the most important military organisation in the world
0:45:50 > 0:45:53and he's made a choice to move from being a sailor, old technology,
0:45:53 > 0:45:57to being a stoker, new technology. So he's...he's going with the flow.
0:45:57 > 0:46:01But then I've still got this... this blip on his career
0:46:01 > 0:46:03when he's had this court martial and put in prison.
0:46:03 > 0:46:06Have you got any... any explanation for that?
0:46:06 > 0:46:08Um, I think there's a good place we can look
0:46:08 > 0:46:11and we might be able to get to the bottom of that,
0:46:11 > 0:46:13because the Navy's pretty good at keeping records.
0:46:13 > 0:46:15- So we'd better head for the library. - Oh, OK.
0:46:18 > 0:46:19Shall I turn the fire off?
0:46:23 > 0:46:28So, this is the Crimea at the time of the Crimean War,
0:46:28 > 0:46:31and while it's called the Crimean War, it only actually
0:46:31 > 0:46:35happened down here, this little bit around the Naval base at Sevastopol.
0:46:35 > 0:46:40In 1854, the Crimean War began when Britain and France
0:46:40 > 0:46:44declared war on Russia in an attempt to hold back Russian expansion.
0:46:46 > 0:46:49Thomas Beaton was serving at the time on HMS Tiger,
0:46:49 > 0:46:55one of the ships sent as part of the mission to capture Russian ports in the Black Sea.
0:46:55 > 0:46:59But things did not go according to plan.
0:46:59 > 0:47:01The Tiger, with two other ships,
0:47:01 > 0:47:06had been sent from the fleet to put a blockade on Odessa.
0:47:06 > 0:47:10Now, I think things start to go badly wrong when they get here.
0:47:10 > 0:47:12- Why?- Why?
0:47:12 > 0:47:15The ship was lost.
0:47:15 > 0:47:21So our man is in a major naval disaster, he's in a shipwreck.
0:47:21 > 0:47:24They'd run aground in a thick fog, they were under a high cliff
0:47:24 > 0:47:27so they're in a very bad position, they could be fired down on
0:47:27 > 0:47:30and they desperately needed to get off that beach as soon as possible.
0:47:30 > 0:47:34But the problem is the Russians are going to be along pretty soon
0:47:34 > 0:47:39and critically, um, this is the account of Alfred Royer,
0:47:39 > 0:47:41he was the senior surviving officer of the ship.
0:47:41 > 0:47:45And you can see here.
0:47:45 > 0:47:48"A small boat with two oars pulled across our bows,
0:47:48 > 0:47:52"close along shore towards the city, evidently intent upon giving
0:47:52 > 0:47:56"notice of the catastrophe, while just above, on the cliff,
0:47:56 > 0:47:58"through the slowly disappearing fog, we could discover
0:47:58 > 0:48:03"the well-known figure of a Cossack on horseback..." What an image!
0:48:03 > 0:48:07"..with long lance in hand, galloping off to announce the news
0:48:07 > 0:48:11"to his superiors of the grounding of a steamer on the coast."
0:48:11 > 0:48:15"To increase, if possible, the interest of the scene,
0:48:15 > 0:48:18"we could discern two ladies with pink parasols,
0:48:18 > 0:48:22"promenading in their garden, which reached the edge of the cliff."
0:48:22 > 0:48:24What an image!
0:48:24 > 0:48:26I mean, that just gives you such a...
0:48:26 > 0:48:29such a sense of what was going on.
0:48:29 > 0:48:32This idea of a Cossack with a lance in hand who just happened
0:48:32 > 0:48:35to be riding around, and there's ladies with pink parasols,
0:48:35 > 0:48:40whilst downstairs Thomas would have been
0:48:40 > 0:48:43working his socks off along with everybody else
0:48:43 > 0:48:48- under the constant threat that they'd have been targeted.- Yep.
0:48:49 > 0:48:55And then we've got a contemporary Illustrated London News recap of the scene.
0:48:55 > 0:48:58Here's the Tiger, hard aground under the cliff.
0:48:58 > 0:49:03This is probably the house of the garden of the ladies with the famous pink parasols.
0:49:03 > 0:49:06The Russians brought up an artillery battery onto the cliffs,
0:49:06 > 0:49:10they opened fire and before the sailors on the ship could
0:49:10 > 0:49:14get the ship off the ground and away, the ship was badly damaged.
0:49:14 > 0:49:17The captain was mortally wounded, several other men were killed
0:49:17 > 0:49:19and they had to lower their colours and surrender.
0:49:19 > 0:49:24Why would being in a shipwreck mean that you get a court martial?
0:49:24 > 0:49:28In the Navy, if you lose your ship, you have to account for it.
0:49:28 > 0:49:32A court martial is a standard procedure at which the survivors
0:49:32 > 0:49:36of any shipwreck have to account for the loss of their ship.
0:49:36 > 0:49:37So let's just have a look. So...
0:49:37 > 0:49:41"The rest of the crew, about 200 in number, remained prisoners
0:49:41 > 0:49:45"and taken to Odessa, where they were treated with great respect."
0:49:45 > 0:49:48News accounts of the time tell a dramatic story.
0:49:48 > 0:49:53Captured, and then released in exchange for Russian prisoners,
0:49:53 > 0:49:55Thomas was still facing court martial
0:49:55 > 0:49:57when he was ordered into the Naval Brigade.
0:49:57 > 0:50:01These brigades were detachments of sailors who supported the army on land.
0:50:01 > 0:50:04Thomas found himself in the middle
0:50:04 > 0:50:09of one of the most notorious battles of the 19th century.
0:50:09 > 0:50:12So what we've got here is the French forces in blue,
0:50:12 > 0:50:16the British forces in red, and in the middle of the British position
0:50:16 > 0:50:18is the sailors' camp.
0:50:18 > 0:50:22So our man is now at the siege of Sevastopol.
0:50:22 > 0:50:25He's in the sailors' camp, he's building batteries and he's
0:50:25 > 0:50:29helping to man and fire heavy artillery, bombarding Sevastopol.
0:50:29 > 0:50:32So it's a big camp. It's not just a couple of them, is it?
0:50:32 > 0:50:34Well over a thousand men, about 1,400 men at most.
0:50:34 > 0:50:38And were they regarded as making a valuable contribution?
0:50:38 > 0:50:41The Naval Brigade was absolutely essential to the siege of Sevastopol.
0:50:41 > 0:50:44Without their guns, without their skills and their fire power,
0:50:44 > 0:50:47Sevastopol would not have been taken.
0:50:47 > 0:50:51So he sees all of this through from the autumn of 1854
0:50:51 > 0:50:54to the late spring of 1855.
0:50:54 > 0:50:56It's just a critical phase with the Crimean War.
0:50:56 > 0:51:01- And it was for this period that he received his medal?- Yeah.
0:51:01 > 0:51:04- So you've been effectively a prisoner of war...- Yeah.
0:51:04 > 0:51:11..released, you come and then spend the year fighting the enemy,
0:51:11 > 0:51:16laying siege, winning, but then when you sail home
0:51:16 > 0:51:19you face a court martial for losing the ship.
0:51:19 > 0:51:22And the court martial is held in Portsmouth.
0:51:23 > 0:51:26That's a nice return, isn't it?
0:51:26 > 0:51:28It seems a little bit harsh.
0:51:31 > 0:51:34It's quite interesting, really, because what today's taught me
0:51:34 > 0:51:38is that Thomas was serving on a ship and, through no fault of his own,
0:51:38 > 0:51:40it would appear the ship ran aground.
0:51:40 > 0:51:45He ends up being a prisoner of war and then ends up in the...
0:51:45 > 0:51:49in the Naval Brigade, fighting the war in the Crimea,
0:51:49 > 0:51:53which I didn't actually even know that the Navy did that.
0:51:53 > 0:51:57So, he was amongst a thousand men in a significant siege.
0:51:57 > 0:52:02And it just gives you a sense that that commitment that they made
0:52:02 > 0:52:04when they joined the Forces was...was total.
0:52:04 > 0:52:10What I, as yet, don't understand is what actually happened during the court martial.
0:52:10 > 0:52:13Because by all the reports and all accounts
0:52:13 > 0:52:16him and the others stokers performed well.
0:52:18 > 0:52:25John is on his way to meet Portsmouth curator Matthew Sheldon on board HMS Victory,
0:52:25 > 0:52:29Admiral Nelson's famous flagship from the Battle of Trafalgar.
0:52:29 > 0:52:32It has also played its part in Thomas Beaton's story.
0:52:36 > 0:52:38Matthew. Thanks for seeing me.
0:52:38 > 0:52:40- John, welcome aboard HMS Victory. - Thank you.
0:52:40 > 0:52:44We have here, um, a document that shows that he was on board.
0:52:44 > 0:52:47Thomas Beaton, stoker, and he's here with lots of his mess mates,
0:52:47 > 0:52:52awaiting trial by court martial for the loss of HMS Tiger.
0:52:52 > 0:52:55So I thought perhaps I'd show you where he would have lived while he was on board.
0:52:55 > 0:52:58- Yeah, if you could, please. - If we go on down...
0:52:58 > 0:53:01- Impressive ship, isn't it? - It is fantastic.
0:53:01 > 0:53:03Three full gun decks, and he was on the lower gun deck.
0:53:03 > 0:53:06So I have to take you all the way down.
0:53:06 > 0:53:08How many people would live on here?
0:53:08 > 0:53:11- It would have been about 800 people on here.- Oof!
0:53:11 > 0:53:13Absolutely crammed in.
0:53:14 > 0:53:18- So this is... would have been his quarters?- Yeah.
0:53:18 > 0:53:23This is the lower gun deck, this is basically where the men ate
0:53:23 > 0:53:24and slept and lived on board.
0:53:24 > 0:53:27How many would have been here when he was here?
0:53:27 > 0:53:29So he'd have been here with about 300 to 400 men.
0:53:29 > 0:53:32- 400 men?- Yeah.
0:53:32 > 0:53:35You got, I think, 14 inches to sling your hammock and you had to
0:53:35 > 0:53:38do everything here - you had to eat, you had to do your washing,
0:53:38 > 0:53:42get up at six in the morning, get to work, clean the decks.
0:53:44 > 0:53:47And so, in terms of his life here, how long was he here?
0:53:47 > 0:53:49He was here for six weeks.
0:53:49 > 0:53:52Six weeks, and this is all waiting for this court martial?
0:53:52 > 0:53:54It is, yeah.
0:53:54 > 0:53:59- So, what is this? - This is a great cabin.
0:53:59 > 0:54:02This is where the court martial would have taken place.
0:54:02 > 0:54:06I mean, this was the quarters of Nelson when he was on board.
0:54:06 > 0:54:08So they would have been brought in here.
0:54:08 > 0:54:12Presumably this would be the first time they'd seen anything like this?
0:54:12 > 0:54:15- Yeah, this was the most formal, most important part of the ship. - It's impressive, innit?
0:54:15 > 0:54:18Yeah, it is. Um, it was literally a court.
0:54:18 > 0:54:21You'd have had about ten captains all assembled
0:54:21 > 0:54:24and formal charges would have been read and so on.
0:54:24 > 0:54:27But this is the thing for me that I can't get my head around -
0:54:27 > 0:54:31he's a stoker, I can't understand why he's getting court-martialled
0:54:31 > 0:54:33for something that's completely beyond his control.
0:54:33 > 0:54:37He wasn't deciding the direction of the ship, so why is he getting a court martial?
0:54:37 > 0:54:39You had to inquire into what happened
0:54:39 > 0:54:42so that he might have known some details of what happened.
0:54:42 > 0:54:45But the people who were really responsible were the master,
0:54:45 > 0:54:48who had to navigate, and the lieutenant.
0:54:48 > 0:54:50So fairly quickly the court decide
0:54:50 > 0:54:54that no blame was imputable to any of the prisoners.
0:54:54 > 0:54:56So Thomas is acquitted.
0:54:56 > 0:54:59The other thing that doesn't make sense to me then
0:54:59 > 0:55:03- is on his service records it's got listed that he was in prison. - Mm-hmm.
0:55:03 > 0:55:05But not for this?
0:55:05 > 0:55:08Not for this incident. For something that he alone did.
0:55:08 > 0:55:13Um, and we've got some documents that will show us exactly what he got up to.
0:55:17 > 0:55:19We've got him here, Thomas Beaton.
0:55:19 > 0:55:24And this is a time when he's gone back out to the Mediterranean
0:55:24 > 0:55:26on a merchant ship,
0:55:26 > 0:55:30and we can see here he spends a period in Corradino Prison.
0:55:30 > 0:55:32Where's that?
0:55:32 > 0:55:37It is actually out in Malta, which was the headquarters of the fleet.
0:55:37 > 0:55:41This is Malta at the date that he was there.
0:55:41 > 0:55:43Oh! Oh, it's a proper picture.
0:55:43 > 0:55:46Pull it all the way out.
0:55:46 > 0:55:48Wow!
0:55:48 > 0:55:51You can see this is called "Ricasoli to Corradino",
0:55:51 > 0:55:55so right at the far side here is Corradino.
0:55:55 > 0:55:58And that's where they built the prison.
0:55:58 > 0:55:59Do we know why he was in prison?
0:55:59 > 0:56:04What's most likely is, it's just when he's gone out to Malta,
0:56:04 > 0:56:08and he probably was distracted by the delights of a run ashore.
0:56:09 > 0:56:12Went ashore in Malta, maybe had too much to drink
0:56:12 > 0:56:15and then was days late reporting back.
0:56:15 > 0:56:19And the captain can award up to 28 days, and he does that,
0:56:19 > 0:56:22and he then spends his time in this prison.
0:56:22 > 0:56:25So did this have a detrimental effect on his career, then?
0:56:25 > 0:56:27Cos I know that he stayed in for a long time afterwards.
0:56:27 > 0:56:29Yeah. I don't think it did.
0:56:29 > 0:56:32We've got his latest service career here
0:56:32 > 0:56:34and he's serving on the Victoria and Albert.
0:56:34 > 0:56:36And, as that sounds, it was the Royal yacht.
0:56:36 > 0:56:39- Oh.- Still a stoker.
0:56:39 > 0:56:42She's a paddle ship, you can see, she had engines on board,
0:56:42 > 0:56:44but a very smart vessel.
0:56:44 > 0:56:46Well, that's a surprise.
0:56:46 > 0:56:49And the kind of turnout of the crew was really important.
0:56:49 > 0:56:52So you have an image here of what the crew looked like.
0:56:52 > 0:56:54They're in really quite smart gear.
0:56:54 > 0:56:59- Yeah.- You know, they have kind of square rig whites as it were.
0:56:59 > 0:57:01I don't think we've got Thomas in the picture here,
0:57:01 > 0:57:05but this is absolutely the same date as this ship was being sailed.
0:57:05 > 0:57:09We know that the date that he was on board, September 1868,
0:57:09 > 0:57:12Queen Victoria and her family actually do come on board.
0:57:12 > 0:57:14That's fantastic.
0:57:15 > 0:57:19- So he finished at the top.- Mm.
0:57:19 > 0:57:20Well done, Tommy!
0:57:21 > 0:57:25It's been an interesting journey, because I started off
0:57:25 > 0:57:29wanting to find out where our family link with Liverpool came,
0:57:29 > 0:57:34and that obviously came via Charles Bishop going there in his career as an entertainer.
0:57:34 > 0:57:40And then if you look at both men, Thomas and Charles,
0:57:40 > 0:57:42living as they did in the 1840s, '50s and '60s
0:57:42 > 0:57:45when there was lots of changes going on in society,
0:57:45 > 0:57:49and they basically had a better life than what was allotted to them.
0:57:49 > 0:57:52They both became educated by joining the Forces,
0:57:52 > 0:57:54they were both at the top of their game.
0:57:54 > 0:57:57I mean, the fact that Thomas served on the Royal yacht,
0:57:57 > 0:57:59he couldn't have got a better job.
0:57:59 > 0:58:03And from Charles' point of view, he followed his dream,
0:58:03 > 0:58:06he found his love of music, he then developed that into a career
0:58:06 > 0:58:12as a Lay Vicar, and to be good enough to then tour in America.
0:58:12 > 0:58:14You know, the lesson I've learned from it is it doesn't matter
0:58:14 > 0:58:17where you're from, what matters is to make the most of your life.
0:58:17 > 0:58:21None of us are here forever, so you've just got to try and be the best that you can,
0:58:21 > 0:58:24and I think in their case they both definitely did it.
0:58:49 > 0:58:53Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd