0:00:04 > 0:00:08Suicide is the biggest killer of men under 45,
0:00:08 > 0:00:11which is something not a lot of people are aware of.
0:00:11 > 0:00:16This programme contains some strong language.
0:00:16 > 0:00:19Anyone, actually, who hasn't read those figures, if you asked them
0:00:19 > 0:00:21what was the biggest killer of men under 45,
0:00:21 > 0:00:25I'm sure they would say, cancer, getting hit by cars,
0:00:25 > 0:00:28stumbling out of clubs drunk, violence.
0:00:30 > 0:00:34Basically, anything other than... Than them taking their own lives.
0:00:34 > 0:00:37It's a very, very sad fact, but it's not a very widely known one.
0:00:39 > 0:00:43I'm Stephen Manderson. Better known as the rapper, Professor Green.
0:00:45 > 0:00:46CROWD CHEERS
0:00:46 > 0:00:49London, have you had a good time tonight?
0:00:52 > 0:00:55Do you mind if I do one more song, before I'm kicked out?
0:01:01 > 0:01:05Like so many others in the UK, I have to live with a dark reality,
0:01:05 > 0:01:06every day.
0:01:09 > 0:01:13Seven years ago, my dad, Peter, took his own life, aged just 43.
0:01:20 > 0:01:22Ever since, I've been tormented by his loss,
0:01:22 > 0:01:24and struggled to face up to it.
0:01:27 > 0:01:29Now, for the first time,
0:01:29 > 0:01:32I've decided to confront why he was driven to this extreme.
0:01:34 > 0:01:36I hope getting some answers will shine a light
0:01:36 > 0:01:39on the scourge of male suicide in Britain,
0:01:39 > 0:01:43and help me to move on to a new, happier chapter in my life.
0:01:43 > 0:01:46I'm not sure if it's possible to ever really come to terms
0:01:46 > 0:01:48with what my dad did.
0:01:48 > 0:01:51He's always going to be a part of my life that's missing.
0:01:51 > 0:01:55But I do hope, through the people that we talk to,
0:01:55 > 0:01:58that I can learn little bit more about perhaps what
0:01:58 > 0:02:02led to his suicide and maybe it will give me some closure.
0:02:21 > 0:02:25Through music, I've been lucky to enjoy success.
0:02:25 > 0:02:27And recognition.
0:02:31 > 0:02:33Away from the spotlight, I've been able to
0:02:33 > 0:02:37build a comfortable home with my two loves. Millie...
0:02:38 > 0:02:41Really, let's just work this out. Who's doing what?
0:02:41 > 0:02:42I'll do everything.
0:02:42 > 0:02:44..and Arthur.
0:02:44 > 0:02:45ARTHUR BARKS AND YELPS
0:02:45 > 0:02:47That dog! He's been making me jump.
0:02:51 > 0:02:54But there is one black day, when I was 24,
0:02:54 > 0:02:55that I'll never be able to forget.
0:02:58 > 0:03:02I was still in bed, and my nan came in, crying.
0:03:02 > 0:03:03A horrible feeling came over me,
0:03:03 > 0:03:06and I knew that something was really wrong.
0:03:06 > 0:03:09And she just blurted out, "Your dad's dead, he hung himself".
0:03:11 > 0:03:16The anger that came over me, straight away, you know?
0:03:16 > 0:03:19I just punched the wall, I was just livid.
0:03:19 > 0:03:23And I was... The next thing was the upset and then it was the confusion,
0:03:23 > 0:03:26I couldn't understand it. How could he have done this?
0:03:26 > 0:03:28What's he done it for?
0:03:28 > 0:03:31What was so bad that... That he had to take his own life?
0:03:33 > 0:03:37I'd like to get a better understanding as to why my dad did what he did.
0:03:37 > 0:03:41Over 6,000 people take their own lives in Britain each year,
0:03:41 > 0:03:43according to the most recent figures.
0:03:45 > 0:03:47Nearly 80% are male.
0:03:47 > 0:03:49A proportion that is on the rise.
0:03:51 > 0:03:55It's not a topic that anyone really wants to talk about, you know.
0:03:55 > 0:03:58If you want to empty a room, then you bring up suicide.
0:03:58 > 0:04:01I would like to heighten the awareness of the severity of the situation
0:04:01 > 0:04:04and bit by bit, removing the taboo that exists around it.
0:04:10 > 0:04:13There is only one place to begin my search, back in Hackney,
0:04:13 > 0:04:16east London, where I was born and raised.
0:04:16 > 0:04:18Where we are now is Chatsworth Road.
0:04:19 > 0:04:22You probably wouldn't have been able to pay people TO live here,
0:04:22 > 0:04:23when I was growing up.
0:04:23 > 0:04:26Now there's a lot of people who can't pay to live here.
0:04:26 > 0:04:29Still got your pound shop though.
0:04:29 > 0:04:31And this is my estate on the left, here.
0:04:36 > 0:04:38It was quite handy, living on the ground floor,
0:04:38 > 0:04:42because if I ever wanted to sneak anyone in, like my girlfriend, who wasn't allowed to stay over,
0:04:42 > 0:04:46She would leave... "Bye!" ..and then, shortly after,
0:04:46 > 0:04:47climb back in my window.
0:04:47 > 0:04:48Sorry, Nan.
0:04:52 > 0:04:53So, this is it.
0:04:53 > 0:04:57Looks quite a lot like every other estate in London, really, doesn't it?
0:04:57 > 0:05:00It was my Nanny Pat who brought me up here.
0:05:03 > 0:05:06My parents split up very soon after I was born,
0:05:06 > 0:05:08and my mum left when I was only one.
0:05:09 > 0:05:12My dad was never really around during my childhood.
0:05:14 > 0:05:19As a kid, my dad would be very in and out of my life. It wasn't very consistent.
0:05:19 > 0:05:22On his visits, he would come round, everything would be fine,
0:05:22 > 0:05:24and then I wouldn't see him for a year and a half.
0:05:24 > 0:05:27And it turns out the woman that he had left my mum for and subsequently
0:05:27 > 0:05:29had two children with had given him an ultimatum.
0:05:29 > 0:05:31She related me to my mum.
0:05:31 > 0:05:35And she said to him, "You either stop seeing him, or you stop seeing me."
0:05:35 > 0:05:40And, for whatever reason, my dad decided to stop seeing me.
0:05:40 > 0:05:42Which was hard.
0:05:42 > 0:05:46He was the parent that I favoured. So for him to have made that decision
0:05:46 > 0:05:49and to disappear from my life was horrible.
0:05:49 > 0:05:51And, you know, at times, I felt like it was my fault,
0:05:51 > 0:05:53maybe it was something I was doing.
0:05:53 > 0:05:56And I didn't want to, you know... God forbid
0:05:56 > 0:06:00I told him exactly how angry or upset I was and then he disappeared again.
0:06:00 > 0:06:02That was the last thing I wanted.
0:06:02 > 0:06:05You know, there were hours and hours, of days and days that
0:06:05 > 0:06:09I would sit at the window - on the front of that, there is a bus
0:06:09 > 0:06:12stop that's still right outside the front - and just watch the buses,
0:06:12 > 0:06:16you know, waiting for him to get off, and for the most part he never did.
0:06:32 > 0:06:35- Hello, darling. - How you doing, all right?
0:06:35 > 0:06:38- I'm good, I haven't seen you in years.- I know.
0:06:38 > 0:06:41- Lovely to see you.- Lovely to see you.- Gosh.
0:06:41 > 0:06:44It is funny, cos I got a photo out the other day, your dad was in it.
0:06:44 > 0:06:47Holding my one when she was newborn. And I thought, "Wow."
0:06:47 > 0:06:50Did you know... Well, you know what happened, don't you?
0:06:50 > 0:06:54- I know, it was sad.- Yeah.- So sad.
0:06:54 > 0:06:59- How are you doing, are you all right? - He's my grandson, my youngest one. - Bless him.
0:06:59 > 0:07:01- He keeps me on my toes. - Yes. Much like I did with Pat.
0:07:01 > 0:07:03THEY LAUGH
0:07:03 > 0:07:05- It is really nice to see you. - It is lovely to see you.
0:07:05 > 0:07:07- You take care of yourself. - You take care as well.
0:07:10 > 0:07:13I want to know if there are any clues that my dad was unhappy
0:07:13 > 0:07:16during my childhood...
0:07:16 > 0:07:18a time when he was mostly absent.
0:07:21 > 0:07:24I've never spoken to any of my family before about his death,
0:07:24 > 0:07:28so I'm facing a daunting conversation with my rock who raised me...
0:07:28 > 0:07:29Nanny Pat.
0:07:33 > 0:07:36- Hi, Nan.- Hi, Stephen.- How are you doing, you all right?- Yeah.
0:07:38 > 0:07:39- Are you all right?- Yes, come on. - Good.
0:07:39 > 0:07:42- Do you want a cup of tea? - Yes, please.
0:07:42 > 0:07:46Um, almond milk? No, you won't... Oh, I have got milk. What's the date?
0:07:48 > 0:07:51- 30th.- Yes, you're all right, you're in luck.
0:07:51 > 0:07:53Semi-skimmed, though, it is not full fat.
0:07:53 > 0:07:56- This is proper special treatment. - It better be.
0:07:56 > 0:07:58I don't make anyone a cup of tea.
0:07:58 > 0:08:00'Though she calls it talking music,
0:08:00 > 0:08:03'my nana has come to as many of my gigs as she can.'
0:08:03 > 0:08:07I mean, at that last one, this young fella came up to me
0:08:07 > 0:08:11and said, "Oh, are you Nanny Pat?" I said, "Yeah."
0:08:11 > 0:08:14He said, "Oh, will you sign this for...?"
0:08:14 > 0:08:15THEY LAUGH
0:08:15 > 0:08:19- And I thought that was absolutely stupid of him.- What did you sign it?
0:08:19 > 0:08:22- Did you sign it "Nanny Pat", or did you sign...- Yeah, Nanny Pat,
0:08:22 > 0:08:27- but they all call me Nanny Green, don't they?- Nanny Green, yes.
0:08:27 > 0:08:30'I want to hear my nan's memories of my dad during the period
0:08:30 > 0:08:33'he got together with her daughter, and when I was born.'
0:08:33 > 0:08:35Do you like your little dungarees what you're wearing?
0:08:35 > 0:08:38I think they are back in fashion now as well.
0:08:38 > 0:08:41Pretty much anything from the '80s or '90s is. That's a funny one.
0:08:41 > 0:08:46- Yeah, records.- Me with a record. Him with a cigarette in his mouth.
0:08:46 > 0:08:48So what was he like when you first met him?
0:08:50 > 0:08:53Um, a bit shy, a bit quiet.
0:08:53 > 0:08:55Do think that's where I got it from?
0:08:55 > 0:08:58- You shy and quiet? - I was shy and quiet.
0:08:58 > 0:09:01How old was Mum when she met...
0:09:01 > 0:09:04she met Peter, my dad?
0:09:04 > 0:09:06Well, she must have been 15.
0:09:06 > 0:09:11- Yeah, so they weren't really together that long before...- No.- ..before I popped up.- No.
0:09:11 > 0:09:15- I mean, they separated quite soon after my birth, didn't they?- Yes.
0:09:15 > 0:09:19- They were both too young to have a child.- I turned out all right.
0:09:19 > 0:09:21Yes, you've turned out all right, I'm not saying you're not.
0:09:21 > 0:09:23They were still both too young.
0:09:23 > 0:09:26- Yes, but I was very fond of him as a kid, wasn't I?- Oh, God, yes.
0:09:26 > 0:09:30You used to look out the window to see if he was coming up the road.
0:09:30 > 0:09:34And you was happy when he come to pick you up from school.
0:09:34 > 0:09:37- Did he do that? - Yes, of course he did.
0:09:37 > 0:09:39You were more happy when he picked you up than when I picked you up.
0:09:39 > 0:09:41HE LAUGHS
0:09:41 > 0:09:45I was quite anxious as a child, I didn't know what anxiety was.
0:09:45 > 0:09:49I think that was because people walked out on you and left you
0:09:49 > 0:09:51when you was little.
0:09:51 > 0:09:54I mean, Peter should have been more of a man where you was concerned.
0:09:54 > 0:09:57But, you know, I suppose...
0:09:58 > 0:10:02There's very few ways in which you can look at anything that
0:10:02 > 0:10:05happened in a positive light, but it has taught me to be one,
0:10:05 > 0:10:09- because I would never make the mistakes that he has.- No.
0:10:11 > 0:10:15There is quite a theme between the carpet and the sofa, isn't there?
0:10:15 > 0:10:17Yes, yes.
0:10:17 > 0:10:19SHE LAUGHS
0:10:20 > 0:10:23- We look happy.- You do, yes. Well, you was.
0:10:32 > 0:10:36- He's such a fucking... - No, don't be silly.
0:10:38 > 0:10:39Not me, him!
0:10:39 > 0:10:41I'm entitled to cry, he's a flippin' muppet.
0:10:43 > 0:10:46HE SOBS
0:10:47 > 0:10:50- The thing is, it makes me happy.- Mmm.
0:10:52 > 0:10:55But then it makes me sad, because he is not here.
0:10:55 > 0:10:58Well, he must have been suffering to do something like that.
0:10:58 > 0:11:03He must have been. But it also just, you know... Even in the time that he was alive,
0:11:03 > 0:11:07there were very few moments that... that I remember.
0:11:07 > 0:11:12- Mmm.- You know, I can look at these pictures but...
0:11:12 > 0:11:17You've got to remember, your dad loved you and he would have been so proud.
0:11:17 > 0:11:18Come on. Come on.
0:11:24 > 0:11:25Come on.
0:11:28 > 0:11:29You'll be all right.
0:11:47 > 0:11:51You know, going through the pictures, I never knew she had so many pictures of me and my dad.
0:11:51 > 0:11:54And obviously it brought a lot to the surface, but that night,
0:11:54 > 0:11:57I slept for eight hours for the first time in ages.
0:11:57 > 0:12:00Probably because I was, you know, emotionally exhausted, but also
0:12:00 > 0:12:03because I felt like a weight had been lifted in some way.
0:12:07 > 0:12:10Warm up set. Right, here we go,
0:12:10 > 0:12:13Shoulders tight, chin down. Now, three, two, one. Good.
0:12:15 > 0:12:17'All of those emotions are still there,'
0:12:17 > 0:12:21I'm just, on a day-to-day basis, quite good at keeping them at bay.
0:12:21 > 0:12:25Take your time to release. Last one, spend some time down here.
0:12:25 > 0:12:28'And to get it out sometimes is a great help.
0:12:28 > 0:12:31'Also, me and my nan are not that great at talking.'
0:12:31 > 0:12:34You know, we discussed things that we hadn't really.
0:12:34 > 0:12:38I got to ask her loads of questions that I've wanted to and haven't before.
0:12:38 > 0:12:42And hopefully it is a start of a much more open dialogue.
0:12:48 > 0:12:50My nan has confirmed suspicions that my dad struggled to
0:12:50 > 0:12:53face up to the responsibilities in his life.
0:12:57 > 0:13:00But I'm still a long way from understanding what may have
0:13:00 > 0:13:03driven him, like tens of thousands of other men in recent years,
0:13:03 > 0:13:06to the extreme of killing himself.
0:13:08 > 0:13:12To find answers, I need to reach out to those who were closest to my father.
0:13:14 > 0:13:16- Hello.- Hello, my boy.
0:13:16 > 0:13:18HE LAUGHS
0:13:18 > 0:13:22'After several years, I'm catching up again with one of his best mates, Ken.'
0:13:22 > 0:13:25- You all right?- Yes, you OK?- Yes. - Good, good.
0:13:25 > 0:13:28- Do you want a drink?- Yes, please.
0:13:28 > 0:13:33- Thanks, Chris.- You're welcome. - Cheers.- Cheers.
0:13:33 > 0:13:35- Long time no see.- Mm-hm.
0:13:35 > 0:13:37- Too bloody long.- Exactly.
0:13:39 > 0:13:42'Ken was friends with my dad, Peter, for over 30 years
0:13:42 > 0:13:44'and was also his brother-in-law.'
0:13:52 > 0:13:56- Can you play as good as your dad? - No, definitely not.
0:13:56 > 0:14:00- He'd be embarrassed. I mean... Yeah, I definitely didn't bring my own cue.- Oh, well.
0:14:00 > 0:14:01OK, then.
0:14:10 > 0:14:15- Because you were Dad's best man, weren't you?- I was. He asked me.
0:14:15 > 0:14:20That was one of the proudest, proudest days because I would...
0:14:20 > 0:14:21'I want to know from Ken
0:14:21 > 0:14:25'whether my father showed any signs of being unhappy or suicidal.'
0:14:26 > 0:14:28- Is there any clear reason?- No.
0:14:28 > 0:14:30No obvious reason?
0:14:30 > 0:14:32No. The world was his oyster.
0:14:32 > 0:14:36He had, as far as I was concerned, he didn't have a worry in the world.
0:14:36 > 0:14:42He was such a placid, quiet boy. He wouldn't hurt anyone for the world.
0:14:45 > 0:14:49Was he quite open? When you spoke to him, was he quite open?
0:14:49 > 0:14:54I didn't want to interfere and ask him about certain things.
0:14:54 > 0:14:56When we saw each other, it was a case of,
0:14:56 > 0:15:00"Right, let's go out and have a couple of beers, couple of games."
0:15:00 > 0:15:04Talk about football, about Spurs, obviously.
0:15:04 > 0:15:08- That's typical blokes, isn't it? - Yeah. We keep a lot in.
0:15:08 > 0:15:12- So he didn't ever talk about his own life?- He never.
0:15:12 > 0:15:16That's why it was so hurtful and devastating
0:15:16 > 0:15:20what happened, what he did.
0:15:20 > 0:15:23It kills you. It does.
0:15:23 > 0:15:27You think, why?
0:15:28 > 0:15:30Why didn't you come to me?
0:15:30 > 0:15:33Why didn't you say this? Why didn't you say that?
0:15:33 > 0:15:34He must have been holding on to a lot.
0:15:34 > 0:15:39It's got to be something like that. The truth always hurts.
0:15:39 > 0:15:41You've got to come out with it.
0:15:41 > 0:15:46Because, if you're carrying things around, it doesn't go away.
0:15:49 > 0:15:52The most obvious thing that comes from the conversation with Ken
0:15:52 > 0:15:56was that my dad didn't really disclose anything to him,
0:15:56 > 0:15:59you know, he kept everything to himself.
0:15:59 > 0:16:04Which is typical of a bloke's bloke, isn't it?
0:16:04 > 0:16:06Oh, look at him again.
0:16:06 > 0:16:11So, not really talk about stuff much, he just got on with it.
0:16:11 > 0:16:14He sucked it up and dealt with it the best you could.
0:16:14 > 0:16:16But, obviously, the problem that arises from that
0:16:16 > 0:16:19is that some people can't deal with it.
0:16:25 > 0:16:28'It seems my dad kept his demons hidden.
0:16:28 > 0:16:32'I want to investigate how far this classic male trait helps explain
0:16:32 > 0:16:35'why nearly four times as many men as women take their own lives.
0:16:40 > 0:16:43'So, I'm off to meet a man who, for years,
0:16:43 > 0:16:45'kept his darkest feelings secret.
0:16:46 > 0:16:49'And has twice nearly killed himself.'
0:16:55 > 0:16:59'Ben's a keen amateur rugby coach from London.
0:16:59 > 0:17:03'He says he used the sport to suppress his mental health struggles
0:17:03 > 0:17:06'and the effects of traumatic events in his life.'
0:17:07 > 0:17:09I was depressed for an awful long time.
0:17:09 > 0:17:11I was just able to function with it.
0:17:11 > 0:17:15Work silly hours in a professional job
0:17:15 > 0:17:17to try and mask the fact that I was miserable inside.
0:17:17 > 0:17:22What do you think made it possible to keep your feelings at bay?
0:17:22 > 0:17:24I think never taking a break.
0:17:24 > 0:17:27'Ben's troubles began when he was 17.
0:17:28 > 0:17:32'I'm shocked to discover his father also killed himself.'
0:17:33 > 0:17:37He took his own life unexpectedly.
0:17:37 > 0:17:41I remember being really upset for a couple of hours,
0:17:41 > 0:17:44and then, what do I do now?
0:17:44 > 0:17:47I don't know how to grieve.
0:17:47 > 0:17:49Was there anyone that you spoke to about it?
0:17:49 > 0:17:51I talked about it with my friends
0:17:51 > 0:17:55but only in a factual way, like, "My dad killed himself".
0:17:55 > 0:17:59And I think it caught up with me about two years ago.
0:17:59 > 0:18:03And it was nine years' worth of carrying around this burden.
0:18:03 > 0:18:05- Bottled-up emotion.- Yeah.
0:18:09 > 0:18:12I realised that I despised my job.
0:18:12 > 0:18:14My girlfriend at the time had broken up with me.
0:18:14 > 0:18:18I found a lump on one of my testicles
0:18:18 > 0:18:20and ended up going through my phonebook
0:18:20 > 0:18:24checking off people that I've not spoken to them in an age.
0:18:24 > 0:18:26If I'm dead, then it would be better for them.
0:18:26 > 0:18:30Just convincing myself that suicide was the best option.
0:18:30 > 0:18:36I ended up swallowing pills and just shovelling them down my neck
0:18:36 > 0:18:41because I was, like, I'm worthless, totally worthless.
0:18:41 > 0:18:44Just a sort of stain on life.
0:18:44 > 0:18:48You convinced yourself that you had no self-worth.
0:18:48 > 0:18:51And no-one else had a worth in me.
0:18:53 > 0:18:56'Ben's attempts to end his own life thankfully failed.
0:18:59 > 0:19:03'But he still has to live with his demons.'
0:19:03 > 0:19:05If I'm feeling really shit,
0:19:05 > 0:19:08I'll default to, "I'm going to kill myself."
0:19:08 > 0:19:11Do you think it's something always in the back of your mind
0:19:11 > 0:19:12- going to be an option?- Yeah.
0:19:12 > 0:19:16Trying to accept that and know that, if I am suicidal,
0:19:16 > 0:19:19it's OK, it's probably just going to pass.
0:19:19 > 0:19:23And I've got coping mechanisms and strategies in place.
0:19:23 > 0:19:25And people to reach out to.
0:19:25 > 0:19:28I've got a list of people who I call.
0:19:28 > 0:19:30I've got a little book I carry around
0:19:30 > 0:19:33and it's got a letter in the back from me to me,
0:19:33 > 0:19:36and a little sign saying - "Help me, I'm suicidal."
0:19:36 > 0:19:40Do you think as men, our inability to often voice our feelings
0:19:40 > 0:19:42is linked to the high rates of suicide?
0:19:42 > 0:19:48Definitely. Because, if you can't talk about how you're feeling,
0:19:48 > 0:19:51eventually, it just grinds you down.
0:19:51 > 0:19:55I managed to last nine years, and I've no idea how, looking back.
0:19:55 > 0:19:58I think, if you reach your mid-40s
0:19:58 > 0:20:01and you've never really talked about how you're feeling...
0:20:01 > 0:20:02BEN SIGHS
0:20:02 > 0:20:06- It's an awful lot of weight to carry around. It's a big burden.- Yeah.
0:20:07 > 0:20:10'Talking to Ben gave me a bit of insight into what it's like to reach
0:20:10 > 0:20:13'a proper crisis point where you really don't
0:20:13 > 0:20:14'want to carry on any more.
0:20:14 > 0:20:17'Which also helps me to understand a little bit better
0:20:17 > 0:20:19'what my dad might have been feeling like
0:20:19 > 0:20:20'just before he took his own life.'
0:20:20 > 0:20:23I'm happy for Ben. What he's done is the right thing.
0:20:23 > 0:20:26It's a positive, he's gone out and he's sought some help.
0:20:26 > 0:20:28But what his story also shows us is that,
0:20:28 > 0:20:30if you suffer a series of traumatic blows,
0:20:30 > 0:20:33and you combine that with not talking about your problems,
0:20:33 > 0:20:35it can trigger suicidal thoughts.
0:20:35 > 0:20:38Which is a dangerous cocktail, and it afflicts men especially badly.
0:20:45 > 0:20:47'I've learned that my dad hid his feelings,
0:20:47 > 0:20:50'but I want to build a picture of the particular events in his life
0:20:50 > 0:20:52'that could have helped trigger his suicide.'
0:20:56 > 0:21:00'My knowledge is limited because I last saw him on my 18th birthday,
0:21:00 > 0:21:02'seven years before he died.'
0:21:04 > 0:21:07'I don't know if it was really a conscious decision
0:21:07 > 0:21:12'to not contact him. It was just something that stopped happening.
0:21:12 > 0:21:15'You know, he didn't phone me, I didn't phone him.
0:21:15 > 0:21:17'That was that, really.'
0:21:17 > 0:21:20I was going through a point in my life where I was finding my feet,
0:21:20 > 0:21:22finding I had a bit more confidence.
0:21:22 > 0:21:25You know, I guess I was growing into a man.
0:21:25 > 0:21:29And I didn't, I don't think I did it spitefully.
0:21:29 > 0:21:32But I kind of felt, you know, "I can get by without you.
0:21:32 > 0:21:35"I'm proof of that, I'm still here."
0:21:35 > 0:21:37So I just stopped bothering.
0:21:39 > 0:21:42'In his final years, my father settled with a wife
0:21:42 > 0:21:45'and stepchildren outside London.
0:21:45 > 0:21:49'A few months before he killed himself, I decided to reach out.'
0:21:51 > 0:21:53It was just before Christmas.
0:21:53 > 0:21:55We arranged to meet the day after Boxing Day.
0:21:55 > 0:21:57I called him just to see where we were going to meet.
0:21:57 > 0:22:02And he said, you know, "Wife and kids, really excited to see you."
0:22:02 > 0:22:05I was like, "This ain't about me playing happy families,
0:22:05 > 0:22:08"this is about me seeing you, and us sitting down as adults and,
0:22:08 > 0:22:10"for the first time, having a conversation
0:22:10 > 0:22:12"about everything that's happened."
0:22:12 > 0:22:14And he started to stutter.
0:22:14 > 0:22:17And I just lost my temper because I knew exactly what was coming.
0:22:17 > 0:22:19And I told him to fuck off.
0:22:19 > 0:22:22I said, "If I ever see you again, I'm going to knock you out."
0:22:25 > 0:22:28It would be easy to look back and think, I wish I'd never said that,
0:22:28 > 0:22:31I wish they weren't the last words that I said to him.
0:22:31 > 0:22:33I had a right to be that angry.
0:22:33 > 0:22:35I had more than a right to be that angry,
0:22:35 > 0:22:38I had the right to be a damn sight angrier than that.
0:22:39 > 0:22:42But that was the last time we'd speak.
0:22:46 > 0:22:48'Because we were estranged, I never asked my dad about
0:22:48 > 0:22:50'any problems he'd faced throughout his life.
0:22:52 > 0:22:54'Something I now deeply regret.
0:22:57 > 0:22:59'There is one person I'm hoping can fill in these blanks
0:22:59 > 0:23:03'and tell me about any specific troubles he was having.'
0:23:03 > 0:23:07We are off to see Debbie, my dad's sister, my aunt...
0:23:09 > 0:23:11..in the place where they grew up.
0:23:11 > 0:23:15Initially, I thought today might be a bit daunting.
0:23:15 > 0:23:17I didn't see that much of Debbie growing up
0:23:17 > 0:23:20but, I don't know, I feel good about it.
0:23:20 > 0:23:24I'm quite interested to know more about my dad.
0:23:24 > 0:23:27It's mad to think, isn't it, today is going to be the first time
0:23:27 > 0:23:30I'm knowingly going to visit where he grew up.
0:23:44 > 0:23:47- Hiya. Are you all right? - Oh, good to see you.- Give me a hug.
0:23:51 > 0:23:54- How are you doing? - I'm all right, not bad.
0:23:54 > 0:23:57'Debbie and my dad Peter were two of six siblings
0:23:57 > 0:23:59'brought up on this estate in north London.'
0:24:03 > 0:24:06It's just along here that we used to live at, a two-bedroom flat.
0:24:06 > 0:24:09- Eight of us.- Bloody hell.
0:24:09 > 0:24:14Mum left home, that was when I was six. So, Pete was a baby.
0:24:14 > 0:24:19And he had to be taken into a home and had a bit of foster care.
0:24:19 > 0:24:23But, I remember Dad standing in the kitchen with all of us,
0:24:23 > 0:24:25saying, he's not going back.
0:24:25 > 0:24:28We were the only kids who only had one parent.
0:24:28 > 0:24:31So, there he was in the infants, I was in the juniors.
0:24:31 > 0:24:33We'd pick each other up and come home.
0:24:33 > 0:24:35So, as kids, were you all close,
0:24:35 > 0:24:38- brothers and sisters, was everyone close?- Yeah, yeah.
0:24:38 > 0:24:40Obviously, Mum leaving home when she did,
0:24:40 > 0:24:43and we all really stuck together.
0:24:43 > 0:24:46Him not having his mum there, that's always going to have some effect.
0:24:46 > 0:24:51- Did you know that Peter was a twin? Your dad was a twin.- No.- Yeah, yeah.
0:24:51 > 0:24:54He was an identical twin that died at birth.
0:24:55 > 0:24:58- Sorry, darling.- I had no idea. I didn't even know.- Yeah.
0:24:58 > 0:25:01He was going to be Daryl Thomas.
0:25:03 > 0:25:07'After revealing the adversity my father faced as a child,
0:25:07 > 0:25:09'Debbie brings up his final years...
0:25:10 > 0:25:13'..and what happened to his brother David and sister Susan.'
0:25:15 > 0:25:19Two years before he passed away,
0:25:19 > 0:25:22well, did you know that David died?
0:25:22 > 0:25:26- In the same way? - David committed suicide in 2006.
0:25:27 > 0:25:29Can't get my head around it.
0:25:29 > 0:25:34Um. But then Susan died in 2007.
0:25:35 > 0:25:39- How did she pass? - She hadn't been very well.
0:25:39 > 0:25:43In fact, Pete used to really watch over her a lot.
0:25:43 > 0:25:46She got a type of leukaemia, and was taken into hospital.
0:25:46 > 0:25:53And she fought so hard, so hard, but she...died.
0:25:54 > 0:25:57Was he upset about... Obviously he was upset.
0:25:57 > 0:26:00He'd suffered a lot of loss. Was he depressed noticeably?
0:26:01 > 0:26:05I certainly know Susan was massive.
0:26:05 > 0:26:08He wasn't good.
0:26:08 > 0:26:12Susan going was massive for him, really, really massive for him.
0:26:12 > 0:26:15I remember him saying to me afterwards, "You know what?
0:26:15 > 0:26:19"That was the most beautiful funeral I've ever been to."
0:26:19 > 0:26:22And then I think we gave it to him, because you were there.
0:26:22 > 0:26:24Yeah, he went in on my shoulder.
0:26:31 > 0:26:35He's a muppet, isn't he? Such a silly sod.
0:26:35 > 0:26:38I just hate to think of what he must have been going through.
0:26:44 > 0:26:47He went out of the house with the full intention of
0:26:47 > 0:26:50going to get some help.
0:26:50 > 0:26:53And we only found that out at the inquest.
0:26:53 > 0:26:57He'd been to the doctor and he was going to go to see Mind.
0:26:57 > 0:27:02- And he went out...- So he was... - He went out of the house to see Mind
0:27:02 > 0:27:04and, instead of turning left, he turned right.
0:27:07 > 0:27:10That's the only way I can describe it.
0:27:10 > 0:27:11SHE SIGHS HEAVILY
0:27:13 > 0:27:15It's really, really hard.
0:27:17 > 0:27:18Really hard.
0:27:22 > 0:27:26'Until now, I was unaware that my father lost two siblings
0:27:26 > 0:27:27'in such quick succession.
0:27:29 > 0:27:32'And of the terrible impact this seemed to have on his mental state
0:27:32 > 0:27:34'shortly before he killed himself.'
0:27:34 > 0:27:41It was hard to hear of all the suffering, you know?
0:27:41 > 0:27:45It's been quite a constant throughout my family, I suppose.
0:27:45 > 0:27:50Um. But it helps me understand a little more about why
0:27:50 > 0:27:53or why he may have done what he did.
0:27:53 > 0:27:56It just sounded like losing his sister was the final blow.
0:27:56 > 0:28:01And he must have already been fragile with all the loss he'd suffered.
0:28:01 > 0:28:07It's upsetting. Obviously, I knew he wasn't in a great place.
0:28:07 > 0:28:10But, I don't know, I wish I could have been there
0:28:10 > 0:28:12to help him through some of it.
0:28:22 > 0:28:27'Not being around for my dad has left me with a burning question.
0:28:27 > 0:28:30'What could I have done to prevent his death?
0:28:31 > 0:28:34'In the UK, suicide accounts for a staggering fifth
0:28:34 > 0:28:37'of all deaths of men under 45.
0:28:38 > 0:28:41'With so many choosing to take their own lives,
0:28:41 > 0:28:45'what kind of help is out there to reduce this toll?
0:28:45 > 0:28:48'To try to find out, I'm visiting a unique place
0:28:48 > 0:28:51'which specialises in caring for people who've reached crisis point.'
0:28:51 > 0:28:54We're off to a place called The Maytree which, from the outside,
0:28:54 > 0:28:58looks like any bog-standard north London terraced house.
0:28:58 > 0:29:01But it also happens to be a retreat for people who are feeling suicidal.
0:29:07 > 0:29:10- Hello, how are you doing. I'm Stephen.- Hi, Stephen. Hi, I'm Dave.
0:29:10 > 0:29:12- Nice to meet you.- Come in.
0:29:12 > 0:29:16Dave, tell me what goes on here at The Maytree?
0:29:16 > 0:29:20We are not a medical facility. So, it's run in a very homely way.
0:29:20 > 0:29:22So, we have bedrooms here.
0:29:22 > 0:29:25We have a kitchen where we prepare food for the guests.
0:29:25 > 0:29:28A lot of people that come here say they are expecting to find
0:29:28 > 0:29:31- some sort of facility. - Bars on windows!- Exactly.
0:29:31 > 0:29:33And then you get in here and there are no padded cells.
0:29:33 > 0:29:36It just feels like somewhere you can sit down, have a cup of tea.
0:29:38 > 0:29:40'Guests stay here for five days
0:29:40 > 0:29:44'and the key is encouraging them to explore their suicidal feelings.'
0:29:44 > 0:29:48So, these rooms are kind of used when you want to go somewhere
0:29:48 > 0:29:50a bit more intimate for a chat.
0:29:50 > 0:29:53We don't do counselling here or therapy. It's very much befriending.
0:29:53 > 0:29:59It's just a nice room and it creates a nice, quiet space for our guests.
0:30:03 > 0:30:05'In the 13 years it's been going,
0:30:05 > 0:30:08The Maytree has helped prevent hundreds of male suicides.
0:30:08 > 0:30:13Yet Dave explains why twice as many women have come through the doors.
0:30:13 > 0:30:15It sounds like a bit of a stereotype but,
0:30:15 > 0:30:17men tend to struggle a bit more in terms of
0:30:17 > 0:30:21engaging with their emotions, being able to express their feelings.
0:30:21 > 0:30:23You do find with a lot of male guests
0:30:23 > 0:30:26they are always trying to rationalise why they feel this way.
0:30:26 > 0:30:29There must be a reason for it. There must be an answer.
0:30:29 > 0:30:32- Trying to justify it. - Justify it, absolutely.
0:30:32 > 0:30:34It's like a solution-based approach.
0:30:34 > 0:30:38As men, we are often looking for answers to things, aren't we?
0:30:38 > 0:30:41Whereas The Maytree is more about not so much answers,
0:30:41 > 0:30:44it's more about having that space to sit and really feel
0:30:44 > 0:30:48what you're feeling, and allow those emotions to come through.
0:30:48 > 0:30:52So, the talking is a pivotal point, getting someone to open up.
0:30:52 > 0:30:54Absolutely. We talk about, you know, what were your plans?
0:30:54 > 0:30:57Were you going to hang yourself, were you going to drown yourself?
0:30:57 > 0:30:59It's not a taboo here.
0:30:59 > 0:31:01Even hearing some of those words, they still make me, you know.
0:31:01 > 0:31:04And I'm familiar with them obviously.
0:31:04 > 0:31:09Yeah, it is weird hearing them spoken about that freely.
0:31:09 > 0:31:11Once you've also got through that initial stuff,
0:31:11 > 0:31:14and you've talked about the suicide and the attempts,
0:31:14 > 0:31:16in a way, that creates the space for you to move on
0:31:16 > 0:31:19and talk about other things.
0:31:19 > 0:31:23I do feel that your strength is built when...
0:31:23 > 0:31:25'I'm eager for a closer insight into how The Maytree
0:31:25 > 0:31:27'could have helped my dad to open up.'
0:31:28 > 0:31:31- Stephen, do you want to have a go? - Under which role?
0:31:31 > 0:31:36- You would be the befriender, befriending a suicidal person.- OK.
0:31:36 > 0:31:39'So, I take part in one of the role-plays volunteers do
0:31:39 > 0:31:42'to learn how to befriend suicidal guests.'
0:31:44 > 0:31:46Hi, how are you?
0:31:46 > 0:31:50Um. I'm not really sure.
0:31:50 > 0:31:53I'm really confused.
0:31:53 > 0:31:59I've been here a few days and, er, my mind's all over the place.
0:31:59 > 0:32:02I'm scared I might harm myself again.
0:32:02 > 0:32:06Firstly, I think you need to remember that times are dark,
0:32:06 > 0:32:08but they do pass.
0:32:08 > 0:32:11And they may not pass forever, they may return.
0:32:11 > 0:32:14But the important thing you have to learn to hold on to
0:32:14 > 0:32:17is that there is always change coming.
0:32:17 > 0:32:19I can think rationally but...
0:32:19 > 0:32:23I just don't feel alive. I just feel dead.
0:32:23 > 0:32:27I'm like a walking zombie. I just don't want to be here.
0:32:27 > 0:32:30I've just got to a stage where I've just had enough.
0:32:30 > 0:32:33And suicide and killing myself is the only way.
0:32:33 > 0:32:36'It's a surprisingly realistic and intense experience.'
0:32:37 > 0:32:40What triggers your doubts, do you think?
0:32:40 > 0:32:42I'm just seeing a dark, bleak future.
0:32:43 > 0:32:49There's nothing good going on in my life. I've failed as a human.
0:32:49 > 0:32:51I'm not a happy person all the time.
0:32:51 > 0:32:54I'm smiling now because I'm sitting here, I'm with you,
0:32:54 > 0:32:56I feel, through our chats, we've bonded.
0:32:56 > 0:32:58So, you're having a down moment now,
0:32:58 > 0:33:00but you've still come and found me and asked to speak to me.
0:33:00 > 0:33:04So, deep down, inside is a person who wants to live, not that wants to die.
0:33:08 > 0:33:11OK. So, I want to ask Stephen,
0:33:11 > 0:33:14how was that hitting you? What did that feel like for you?
0:33:14 > 0:33:18I felt a hell of a lot of pressure to stay upbeat.
0:33:18 > 0:33:21Because the last thing you want to do is show someone
0:33:21 > 0:33:24what it's actually making you feel like, which is frightened.
0:33:24 > 0:33:26That is the hard part, befriending,
0:33:26 > 0:33:31it's trying to sort of stop yourself from going too far down that route.
0:33:31 > 0:33:36And actually saying, "OK, you are feeling very low, what's it about?"
0:33:36 > 0:33:39And staying with it. You said, "What triggered your depression?"
0:33:39 > 0:33:43That was such a good question because it allowed him
0:33:43 > 0:33:45to continue to explore where he was feeling.
0:33:45 > 0:33:49I was quite hyper aware of everything I was saying,
0:33:49 > 0:33:51and not wanting to say something that could trigger
0:33:51 > 0:33:54something he might later do.
0:33:54 > 0:33:58And that's an incredible amount of pressure.
0:33:58 > 0:34:02- Well done for having a go. - Thank you. Thank you.
0:34:02 > 0:34:04And thank you.
0:34:04 > 0:34:07What we saw there was day three.
0:34:07 > 0:34:09And when we get to a day five role-play...
0:34:09 > 0:34:12'Something that Dave did mention
0:34:12 > 0:34:15'about how he helps men to talk about their feelings
0:34:15 > 0:34:20'was just to help them stop looking for a reason for their every feeling,
0:34:20 > 0:34:23'and to try and stop them from attempting to justify everything
0:34:23 > 0:34:27'and to just accept how they feel, to talk about how they feel.'
0:34:32 > 0:34:36If my dad, along with all the other men who have sadly taken their lives
0:34:36 > 0:34:40through suicide, had somewhere like this,
0:34:40 > 0:34:43it could have changed everything.
0:34:49 > 0:34:52'I've discovered lots about the various traumas
0:34:52 > 0:34:54'my dad had to suffer in his life,
0:34:54 > 0:34:57'and that he seemingly kept these to himself.
0:34:57 > 0:35:01'Now, I want to uncover more about how his story fits
0:35:01 > 0:35:03'into the bigger picture of the UK's male suicide problem.'
0:35:09 > 0:35:11'So, I'm off to Glasgow University
0:35:11 > 0:35:15'to meet one of the most renowned experts in the field.'
0:35:18 > 0:35:19Hello.
0:35:19 > 0:35:21'Psychologist Professor Rory O'Connor.'
0:35:21 > 0:35:25- Good to meet you, Stephen.- A real professor.- I don't know about that.
0:35:25 > 0:35:27Slightly more questionable credentials.
0:35:29 > 0:35:32I found out that my dad suffered early abandonment
0:35:32 > 0:35:36and also later on in life he lost one of his three remaining sisters.
0:35:36 > 0:35:40Shortly before he took his own life, he was exposed to suicide.
0:35:40 > 0:35:41How common are those factors
0:35:41 > 0:35:44in people who later make attempts on their own life?
0:35:44 > 0:35:47Each of those factors, sadly, is too common.
0:35:47 > 0:35:50What your story highlights is how it is never or very rarely
0:35:50 > 0:35:54a single factor, but it's a complex set of factors which come together.
0:35:54 > 0:35:57And, sadly, for too many men and your dad,
0:35:57 > 0:36:01that sort of perfect storm of factors came together,
0:36:01 > 0:36:04which leads to suicide in far too many men in our country.
0:36:04 > 0:36:08'Rory also reveals that my dad's generation
0:36:08 > 0:36:11'has been especially afflicted by this issue.'
0:36:11 > 0:36:16In the 1990s, the person most likely to kill himself was a young man.
0:36:16 > 0:36:19What's really stark has been, now, 20 years later,
0:36:19 > 0:36:22people who are much more likely to kill themselves now
0:36:22 > 0:36:24are people in their 40s and 50s.
0:36:24 > 0:36:27- Essentially, they'll be men of the same generation.- Absolutely.
0:36:27 > 0:36:31Men of that generation have been described as the buffer generation.
0:36:31 > 0:36:33It's when they look ahead to their fathers,
0:36:33 > 0:36:36their fathers had the stiff upper lip, perhaps.
0:36:36 > 0:36:38When they look behind to their kids growing up behind them,
0:36:38 > 0:36:41their kids are much more comfortable with talking about their emotions
0:36:41 > 0:36:45or seeking help. They're caught in the middle, not knowing what to do.
0:36:51 > 0:36:53- OK, there you go.- Cheers.
0:36:56 > 0:36:57Sad music will appear on this,
0:36:57 > 0:36:59through the headphones, appear on the screen,
0:36:59 > 0:37:01and a number of statements.
0:37:01 > 0:37:03If you could read the statements out loud,
0:37:03 > 0:37:06and think about what those statements mean to you.
0:37:06 > 0:37:07- OK, I'm ready.- OK.
0:37:09 > 0:37:13'As well as common contributory factors, Rory's research also looks
0:37:13 > 0:37:16'at the thought processes which lead to people killing themselves.'
0:37:16 > 0:37:18"I can remember times when everybody but me
0:37:18 > 0:37:20"seemed happy and full of energy."
0:37:22 > 0:37:24'Over 20 years, he's conducted hundreds of tests
0:37:24 > 0:37:25'and on thousands of people.'
0:37:25 > 0:37:27"The same old thing day after day..."
0:37:27 > 0:37:29'I get a taste of one which investigates the link
0:37:29 > 0:37:33'between negative moods and suicidal thoughts.'
0:37:33 > 0:37:36"No matter how hard I try, I just can't help feeling
0:37:36 > 0:37:39"that things are going to get worse and worse."
0:37:39 > 0:37:41Will you take the headphones off now?
0:37:41 > 0:37:44What we're trying to do with this is look at
0:37:44 > 0:37:49how even small changes in mood in people who are already vulnerable
0:37:49 > 0:37:52can change the way you think. Because, ultimately,
0:37:52 > 0:37:55somebody makes a decision to take their own life,
0:37:55 > 0:37:58when their thoughts, combining with a whole range of other factors,
0:37:58 > 0:38:01change in such a way that they see no alternatives,
0:38:01 > 0:38:02they see themselves trapped.
0:38:02 > 0:38:05'Most of Rory's research points to one likelihood
0:38:05 > 0:38:07'about my dad's mental state just before he died.'
0:38:07 > 0:38:10In suicide, I just think entrapment is so fundamental.
0:38:10 > 0:38:14Sadly, in suicide notes from people who have attempted suicide,
0:38:14 > 0:38:18they often talk about this sense of, I just don't know what else to do.
0:38:18 > 0:38:22And they feel trapped and can't do anything else. So, it's fundamental.
0:38:22 > 0:38:26Initially, when I found out my father had taken his own life,
0:38:26 > 0:38:28I went through a whole spectrum of emotions.
0:38:28 > 0:38:32And something I did think initially was how selfish his behaviour was.
0:38:32 > 0:38:34It's an understandable reaction.
0:38:34 > 0:38:36But, from my point of view as a researcher, I think
0:38:36 > 0:38:39all the evidence points to the fact that it's not a selfish act.
0:38:39 > 0:38:41If you think about the notion of entrapment,
0:38:41 > 0:38:43from the point of view of the individual,
0:38:43 > 0:38:46they're just overwhelmed with pain that they can see no alternative.
0:38:46 > 0:38:49Indeed, they often think the complete opposite,
0:38:49 > 0:38:51they think they're a burden on loved ones and family members
0:38:51 > 0:38:53and, if they kill themselves,
0:38:53 > 0:38:56they're relieving their family of a burden.
0:38:56 > 0:38:58'My visit to Glasgow has helped me understand
0:38:58 > 0:39:02'how my dad probably convinced himself he only had one option.'
0:39:04 > 0:39:08'Everything I found out today about what makes a person more likely
0:39:08 > 0:39:15'to take that step, and to take their own life, relates to my dad's story.
0:39:15 > 0:39:19'From the generation he was from, from the age he was at.'
0:39:19 > 0:39:22He suffered bereavement, abandonment,
0:39:22 > 0:39:26adversity in his childhood. He was exposed to a suicide in the family
0:39:26 > 0:39:28when his brother took his life.
0:39:28 > 0:39:32Absolutely everything that could have happened, did.
0:39:32 > 0:39:34But there's still a lot of people who suffer all of those things
0:39:34 > 0:39:37and who will never take that step.
0:39:50 > 0:39:53'I set out to confront why my dad killed himself,
0:39:53 > 0:39:56'to highlight the scale of the male suicide scourge in the UK.
0:40:00 > 0:40:02'But I also did this to learn to cope better.
0:40:06 > 0:40:10'Up until now, music has been my way of trying to process the grief.'
0:40:12 > 0:40:15Sometimes I write things and it makes sense of things
0:40:15 > 0:40:17that I don't understand.
0:40:17 > 0:40:19I've mentioned my dad's suicide in a few songs,
0:40:19 > 0:40:22but in every instance it's been slightly different.
0:40:22 > 0:40:26A couple of times, I've kind of expressed of where it left me
0:40:26 > 0:40:29and the kind of situation I was in and what I was going through.
0:40:29 > 0:40:33# I'm thinking, "I wonder what I'm living for?"
0:40:33 > 0:40:34# "Is it only to hurt?"
0:40:34 > 0:40:37# First my great-nan, now I've got to put my dad in the dirt
0:40:37 > 0:40:39# Back in the earth
0:40:39 > 0:40:41# I wish we could have patched it up first
0:40:41 > 0:40:42# I was so angry though
0:40:42 > 0:40:44# I just couldn't handle the hurt
0:40:44 > 0:40:46# Now you're in the back of a hearse
0:40:46 > 0:40:48# It hurts more than it ever did. #
0:40:48 > 0:40:52I guess the most known song would be...would be Read All About It.
0:40:52 > 0:40:57You don't go into the studio thinking about the response you're going to get from people, really,
0:40:57 > 0:41:00you go in the studio and all that's in your mind is what you want to say
0:41:00 > 0:41:02and how you're going to get it out.
0:41:02 > 0:41:05And, you know, try and put it together in the best way you can.
0:41:05 > 0:41:07Erm...and when the song came out,
0:41:07 > 0:41:10what shocked me was just the replies I was getting
0:41:10 > 0:41:13from people on Twitter and stuff like that,
0:41:13 > 0:41:16who were just, you know, talking about how the song helped them.
0:41:16 > 0:41:19And there were a lot of people who have suffered abandonment or loss
0:41:19 > 0:41:21and it really connected.
0:41:21 > 0:41:25You know, sound is vibration and I think when words have conviction
0:41:25 > 0:41:27and they're meant by the person that's saying 'em,
0:41:27 > 0:41:30I think that carries through the song and you can really feel that.
0:41:30 > 0:41:32# As a kid I looked up to you
0:41:32 > 0:41:34# The only thing was I never saw enough of you
0:41:34 > 0:41:37# The last thing I said to you was I hated you
0:41:37 > 0:41:39# I loved you and now it's too late to say it to you
0:41:39 > 0:41:42# Just didn't know what to do or how to deal with it
0:41:42 > 0:41:44# Even now deep down I'm still livid
0:41:44 > 0:41:46# To think, I used to blame me
0:41:46 > 0:41:48# I wondered what I did to you to make you hate me
0:41:48 > 0:41:50# I wasn't even five
0:41:50 > 0:41:52# Life's a journey and mine wasn't an easy ride
0:41:52 > 0:41:54# You never even got to see me rhyme
0:41:54 > 0:41:56# I just wished you would have reached out
0:41:56 > 0:41:58# I wish you would've been round when I'd been down
0:41:58 > 0:42:00# I wish that you could see me now
0:42:00 > 0:42:03# Wherever you are I really hope you found peace
0:42:03 > 0:42:05# But know that if I ever have kids
0:42:05 > 0:42:08# Unlike you, I'll never let 'em be without me
0:42:08 > 0:42:09# I wanna sing
0:42:09 > 0:42:11# I wanna shout... #
0:42:15 > 0:42:17And it's weird, really, cos if you think about it
0:42:17 > 0:42:21that song wouldn't been what it was without what happened.
0:42:21 > 0:42:25Erm...it still doesn't mean that,
0:42:25 > 0:42:28you know, I don't wish it never did.
0:42:32 > 0:42:34BIRDSONG
0:42:34 > 0:42:37I'm just one of hundreds of thousands of people in Britain
0:42:37 > 0:42:40living with the effects of suicide.
0:42:42 > 0:42:44It's the stigma that surrounds it
0:42:44 > 0:42:47that makes the pain all the tougher to deal with.
0:42:51 > 0:42:54To investigate why suicide still remains such a taboo,
0:42:54 > 0:42:57I need to speak to others who have overcome this.
0:43:00 > 0:43:02Shall we go in the park? Shall be go in the park, then?
0:43:02 > 0:43:04- Yeah.- Come on, then.
0:43:04 > 0:43:07Giancarlo and Carlo Gaglione from North London
0:43:07 > 0:43:10lost their brother and son in 2012.
0:43:17 > 0:43:21Aged just 26, Lanfranco was a highly talented musician
0:43:21 > 0:43:24with a wide circle of friends.
0:43:28 > 0:43:30And this is...this is Lan?
0:43:30 > 0:43:32Yeah. These are some of the...
0:43:32 > 0:43:34some of the memories that we've had of him.
0:43:34 > 0:43:38One of his friends done a little character of him,
0:43:38 > 0:43:39a little...a drawing.
0:43:39 > 0:43:42Basically, he was such a good guy.
0:43:42 > 0:43:45That's how a lot of people described him after he passed,
0:43:45 > 0:43:48that he was...too good, too good to go.
0:43:50 > 0:43:53Erm...that's one of the questions you ask.
0:43:53 > 0:43:55You know, he had it all going for him.
0:43:55 > 0:43:58You know, beautiful girlfriend, happy home,
0:43:58 > 0:44:01that's why no-one knows why...
0:44:01 > 0:44:03why he did it.
0:44:03 > 0:44:06And now I have my own children.
0:44:06 > 0:44:08You know, having a brother, losing a brother is really tough,
0:44:08 > 0:44:11but losing your own son or daughter that's...
0:44:11 > 0:44:15- I can't even imagine.- Yeah. - I can't even fathom it.
0:44:15 > 0:44:20These are some of the memories that Lan's friends left at the wake.
0:44:20 > 0:44:24I mean, a lot of the messages say, "I can't believe you're gone. I can't believe you're gone."
0:44:24 > 0:44:27- If people had problems, they'd go to him.- Yeah.
0:44:27 > 0:44:31It's just that common thing that, you know, you're holding all that inside,
0:44:31 > 0:44:35and the reality is, you know, the pressure is eating you up inside.
0:44:35 > 0:44:38It really shows how it affects people,
0:44:38 > 0:44:41- cos it's not just the family that are affected...- Yeah.
0:44:41 > 0:44:44..it's everyone around 'em, it's their circle of friends.
0:44:44 > 0:44:47It's like an atomic bomb.
0:44:47 > 0:44:48You know, the impact that you have,
0:44:48 > 0:44:51the amount of people that you touch in different ways,
0:44:51 > 0:44:58those repercussions last, you know, much longer than what you think is an easy way out at the time.
0:44:58 > 0:45:01It's just particularly hard afterwards, I guess,
0:45:01 > 0:45:03because we didn't see any of the signs.
0:45:03 > 0:45:06We're a very close family and it's like he, you know,
0:45:06 > 0:45:09he just couldn't open up to us.
0:45:09 > 0:45:11And that hurt a little bit.
0:45:11 > 0:45:15The sense of taboo associated with suicide
0:45:15 > 0:45:17first surfaced within the family.
0:45:17 > 0:45:20I remember when we had the first conversation with my mum
0:45:20 > 0:45:22and told her what had happened,
0:45:22 > 0:45:25after she calmed down she was like, "What are we going to tell everyone?"
0:45:25 > 0:45:28And she was like... You know, she's a very strong Catholic,
0:45:28 > 0:45:30she just didn't want to tell people what had happened.
0:45:30 > 0:45:34- Because of the stigma attached to it.- Yeah.- And people are scared.
0:45:34 > 0:45:36Just like in the olden days, the cancer or the AIDS,
0:45:36 > 0:45:38people are scared of talking about it.
0:45:38 > 0:45:42I remember when I went into work, you know, after a few weeks off,
0:45:42 > 0:45:45no-one had... People found it really difficult to talk to me about it.
0:45:45 > 0:45:47It's hard usually when you lose someone,
0:45:47 > 0:45:51but I think when they know you've lost them to suicide,
0:45:51 > 0:45:54people really clam up and don't feel comfortable talking about it.
0:45:57 > 0:46:00Ultimately, the Gagliones decided to tackle this silence
0:46:00 > 0:46:03very publicly through the charity CALM.
0:46:03 > 0:46:08You know, the whole reason that this exists is because people don't talk about it,
0:46:08 > 0:46:11because people don't go out and help others communicate
0:46:11 > 0:46:14and remove the taboo that is around suicide.
0:46:14 > 0:46:17So we made the decision as a family that, "No, let's put our foot in the sand."
0:46:17 > 0:46:20And I think that started something within our community.
0:46:20 > 0:46:24And people went out, they were just doing all sorts of fundraising events. It was just crazy.
0:46:24 > 0:46:28Climbing mountains, playing gigs, you know, dinner dances.
0:46:28 > 0:46:31We managed to raise well over £50,000 or £60,000.
0:46:31 > 0:46:35- That's incredible.- Which...which was phenomenal.
0:46:35 > 0:46:37But we were never after the money,
0:46:37 > 0:46:39the one thing that we wanted was the awareness.
0:46:39 > 0:46:42You know, we're here today and we're comfortable talking about it
0:46:42 > 0:46:46- and trying to help spread the word more.- It's getting worse.- Yeah.
0:46:46 > 0:46:50'It's uplifting to see Lan's family changing attitudes
0:46:50 > 0:46:53'but at the same time rebuilding their lives.'
0:46:53 > 0:46:55BIRDSONG
0:46:55 > 0:46:57What's helping me to move on
0:46:57 > 0:47:01is having conversations I've never had before with my own family.
0:47:03 > 0:47:08My father Peter killed himself two years after his brother David did the same.
0:47:11 > 0:47:14My aunt Debbie has invited me over to talk with my cousin Ellen
0:47:14 > 0:47:18for the first time about how they have coped with the devastation.
0:47:20 > 0:47:24- Hi, Debbie.- Hello! Are you all right? - Yeah, good thanks.
0:47:24 > 0:47:26Excellent. Come on in.
0:47:26 > 0:47:29Both Debbie and Ellen were especially close to my dad.
0:47:29 > 0:47:34Oh, he adored you. He really adored you.
0:47:34 > 0:47:36Yeah.
0:47:36 > 0:47:39- I always remember Peter smiling all the time.- Yeah.
0:47:39 > 0:47:42You know, like, not a care in the world sort of thing.
0:47:42 > 0:47:44- Just...happy.- He was welcoming.
0:47:44 > 0:47:48- Just a happy man.- He was really warm. Warm's the word, innit? He really was.- Yeah.
0:47:48 > 0:47:52The terrible irony is Peter helped them both recover from David's death.
0:47:52 > 0:47:55I remember at David's funeral Peter was there.
0:47:55 > 0:47:59And I remember him saying to me, "It's hard, it's painful,
0:47:59 > 0:48:02"but don't be angry with him. Don't be angry."
0:48:02 > 0:48:06And that's why for me when Peter done it, I found it so hard
0:48:06 > 0:48:10because I remember him being there holding me up.
0:48:10 > 0:48:12I remember when my mum come and told me,
0:48:12 > 0:48:16- I was just like, "No way, not my Peter. No way!"- Yeah
0:48:16 > 0:48:18I felt much the same. I just couldn't...
0:48:18 > 0:48:20- It's not something you'd ever expect.- No.
0:48:20 > 0:48:23And then I was obviously worrying about my mum all the time,
0:48:23 > 0:48:25cos I thought if both of her brothers have done it,
0:48:25 > 0:48:28- what's to say my mum's not going to do?- Yeah.
0:48:28 > 0:48:30- It doesn't go away. - It never goes away.
0:48:30 > 0:48:33But that's why I always say to people,
0:48:33 > 0:48:38- "No matter whether you're 6ft tall or 10ft wide, talk to people."- Yeah.
0:48:38 > 0:48:43Just talk. You know, it's OK to cry, it's OK to talk about it.
0:48:43 > 0:48:46You know, it doesn't make you less of a man.
0:48:46 > 0:48:48Crying's all I've bloody done making this documentary.
0:48:48 > 0:48:52- You know.- We were in pain but we had each other and were in pain together.
0:48:52 > 0:48:55- Yeah.- You must have been just so isolated with it?
0:48:55 > 0:48:58It wasn't something I could really share with anyone either.
0:48:58 > 0:49:01Well, that's why I had to get the help that I got.
0:49:01 > 0:49:04And I got a lot of help. It was a real major thing for me to do it.
0:49:04 > 0:49:07- When I actually...- It's hard, because you're admitting to it.
0:49:07 > 0:49:10And that's a big problem, people don't want to admit to the, you know,
0:49:10 > 0:49:14- the issues or the problems that they have.- I think it took me...
0:49:14 > 0:49:16It must have been at least six months or eight months
0:49:16 > 0:49:21of probably just, you know, staying under the duvet feeling dreadful.
0:49:21 > 0:49:25When I finally took the step and went to that counselling service,
0:49:25 > 0:49:29well, she came to my house every week for 18 months.
0:49:29 > 0:49:34And that's one of the things that I have worked hard on,
0:49:34 > 0:49:38that if you get a day where you feel crap, allow yourself to feel crap.
0:49:38 > 0:49:40Yeah.
0:49:47 > 0:49:50There's people like my nan who have been there for me through it,
0:49:50 > 0:49:53but it's a difficult thing to talk about at the best of times.
0:49:53 > 0:49:57But talking to Debbie and Ellen about it was...was nice.
0:49:57 > 0:50:00I don't get the opportunity to talk about...
0:50:00 > 0:50:04about my dad taken his own life that much,
0:50:04 > 0:50:07not with people who went through it.
0:50:07 > 0:50:11You know...I didn't really realise that until Debbie brought it up.
0:50:11 > 0:50:13And it's true, I have kind of suffered it on my own.
0:50:13 > 0:50:16CHILDREN SHOUT
0:50:33 > 0:50:35What do you want me to do?
0:50:35 > 0:50:39You can stick the chickens in if you want.
0:50:39 > 0:50:42- OK. My dress rode up. - Stick it by the side.
0:50:42 > 0:50:45- I'll maintain your modesty. - Oh, baby, that's really heavy!
0:50:45 > 0:50:48- SHE GROANS There you go.- Yep.
0:50:48 > 0:50:50Timer on?
0:50:50 > 0:50:53- OK.- I've been married to Millie for two years,
0:50:53 > 0:50:57but have always kept what happened to my dad out of our relationship.
0:50:57 > 0:51:00I've seen you come back some days from filming really low
0:51:00 > 0:51:03- and other days you've been really positive.- Yeah.
0:51:03 > 0:51:06Finding out some of my dad's history and stuff was hard,
0:51:06 > 0:51:08cos he suffered a lot in his life.
0:51:10 > 0:51:13- But you've connected with more family.- Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:51:13 > 0:51:16- I can't wait for you to meet 'em. - Me, too.
0:51:16 > 0:51:20The last time I saw 'em, actually, up until recently was my dad's funeral.
0:51:20 > 0:51:24And I suppose that I've run away from most things to do with my dad.
0:51:24 > 0:51:28I just felt like I needed to focus on myself and to...
0:51:28 > 0:51:31to keep going over what he did,
0:51:31 > 0:51:34it just didn't seem conducive to me progressing.
0:51:34 > 0:51:37I didn't want to pry because it's a very delicate subject,
0:51:37 > 0:51:41- but I want to make sure you talk about stuff.- Yeah.
0:51:41 > 0:51:43Yeah.
0:51:43 > 0:51:46Yeah, I think it's important. You know, we're married,
0:51:46 > 0:51:49and I suppose the next step is having kids
0:51:49 > 0:51:52- and I really don't want to pass it on.- You'll be a great dad.- I hope so,
0:51:52 > 0:51:56but, you know what I mean, I don't want to still have my own problems.
0:51:56 > 0:52:00You know, I want to be there to support them through theirs.
0:52:00 > 0:52:04I would like to deal with things better than I have done so far.
0:52:07 > 0:52:10Exploring this chapter in my family history
0:52:10 > 0:52:13has thrown up one especially alarming anxiety.
0:52:15 > 0:52:18The reality that being exposed to suicide
0:52:18 > 0:52:21can make you more vulnerable to it.
0:52:23 > 0:52:28Perhaps the most important lesson I've learned is to share emotions, not suppress them.
0:52:28 > 0:52:32So I'm taking the big step of visiting a psychotherapist...
0:52:32 > 0:52:36You let me know if I'm probing too much,
0:52:36 > 0:52:40- or if I'm going into an area you're uncomfortable with.- ..Dr Aaron Balick.
0:52:40 > 0:52:43I'm not going to take my own life, but is there any way of knowing
0:52:43 > 0:52:46that something is not going to happen, it's not going to trigger something,
0:52:46 > 0:52:49especially when, you know, it can run in families?
0:52:49 > 0:52:52And also if you've been exposed to it, it's so frightening.
0:52:52 > 0:52:57You know, I'm married now and the next logical step will probably be children.
0:52:57 > 0:52:59I don't want to pass this on to them.
0:52:59 > 0:53:05I'm aware of, you know, how much of what your parents go through you take on,
0:53:05 > 0:53:08- cos I'm a product of my dad.- Yeah.
0:53:08 > 0:53:12Erm...I really don't want to pass it on.
0:53:12 > 0:53:14We're having a conversation about it,
0:53:14 > 0:53:18you're confronting the pain about it, and that's different.
0:53:18 > 0:53:22It's a really important difference between you and him.
0:53:22 > 0:53:25That means you are not condemned, in a sense,
0:53:25 > 0:53:28to the same path that you're worried about.
0:53:32 > 0:53:35You really miss him, don't you? Yeah.
0:53:41 > 0:53:44I'm crying again!
0:53:46 > 0:53:51- These are the real feelings though, aren't they?- They're not the fake ones.- No.
0:53:51 > 0:53:55- I mean, this isn't a side of myself that I see a lot.- Yeah.
0:53:55 > 0:54:00So to know that there's going to be people out there who I've never met or encountered,
0:54:00 > 0:54:05God knows how many people, seeing me like this is frightening.
0:54:05 > 0:54:10But then that takes it back to the whole view of an archetypal man and what a man should be.
0:54:10 > 0:54:13You know, why would I be scared of people seeing me like this?
0:54:13 > 0:54:16People can see me laugh, they should be able to see me cry.
0:54:16 > 0:54:19- But I don't want to appear vulnerable.- Yeah.
0:54:19 > 0:54:22And that's a huge part of the fucking problem.
0:54:23 > 0:54:28That we don't want to be appear vulnerable and we've got to show up strong all the time?
0:54:28 > 0:54:32- So what happens to all that vulnerability in people? - It gets piled up.
0:54:32 > 0:54:36I know it hurts, but does it also feel like a relief when it comes out?
0:54:36 > 0:54:39Or does it make it feel worse?
0:54:39 > 0:54:41I've had a better night's sleep
0:54:41 > 0:54:45- after some of the days we've been filming this.- Yeah?- Yeah.
0:54:45 > 0:54:47You've had a better night's sleep?
0:54:47 > 0:54:50- So you really do get something out of your system?- Yeah.
0:54:52 > 0:54:58Yeah. And it's made me take a long hard look at myself and, I guess,
0:54:58 > 0:55:01what has come from it is recognising how important it is for me
0:55:01 > 0:55:06to make seeing somebody for help a regular part of my life.
0:55:06 > 0:55:12As opposed to just waiting for it to get really bad before I dive into those feelings,
0:55:12 > 0:55:17when it's much harder to because it's much more raw and it's much more painful.
0:55:17 > 0:55:20You're in a position of having stuck your head in some pretty dark spaces
0:55:20 > 0:55:22and having to kind of carry that.
0:55:29 > 0:55:32I never expected it to be easy going through the process
0:55:32 > 0:55:35of finding out more about why my father might have committed suicide,
0:55:35 > 0:55:37but it has been really bloody hard.
0:55:42 > 0:55:44As hard as it's been, I haven't really got any doubts
0:55:44 > 0:55:47that it's been beneficial towards the healing process.
0:55:47 > 0:55:51It's brought a lot to the surface but they're obviously things that needed dealing with.
0:55:52 > 0:55:55If any good can come of me sharing my experience,
0:55:55 > 0:55:59I hope that it encourages more men to be vocal and not keep their feelings bottled up.
0:56:01 > 0:56:05I hope it helps diminish some of the stigma that still exists around suicide.
0:56:05 > 0:56:08But I think for us to make any real progress,
0:56:08 > 0:56:10the first and most important thing
0:56:10 > 0:56:12is for people to admit what a problem it is
0:56:12 > 0:56:15and to really understand what an extensive problem suicide is.