0:00:02 > 0:00:07This programme/film contains scenes which some viewers may find upsetting.
0:00:07 > 0:00:11CHORAL VERSION OF KNOCKIN' ON HEAVEN'S DOOR
0:00:13 > 0:00:15'Hi, Debbie.
0:00:15 > 0:00:16'It's Simon here.
0:00:18 > 0:00:20'I know we've had our ups and downs,
0:00:20 > 0:00:25'but I really do appreciate everything you've done for me.'
0:00:25 > 0:00:28MUSIC PLAYING IN BACKGROUND
0:00:30 > 0:00:31Up!
0:00:33 > 0:00:36'I've been phenomenally lucky.
0:00:36 > 0:00:39'Such a loving family.
0:00:39 > 0:00:42'So many wonderful friends.
0:00:46 > 0:00:48'I will miss it all.'
0:00:56 > 0:01:00We will perhaps never know the full nature of
0:01:00 > 0:01:03Simon's thoughts on life and death.
0:01:03 > 0:01:08I suspect they were as complex and interesting as the man himself.
0:01:17 > 0:01:22The toll that his disease took seems cruel.
0:01:33 > 0:01:35The law is very clear.
0:01:35 > 0:01:37In this country, we can't help people end their lives.
0:01:42 > 0:01:45Everybody can change mind,
0:01:45 > 0:01:47right in the last moment.
0:01:51 > 0:01:55'I feel so strongly inside that this isn't the right thing to do.
0:01:57 > 0:02:01'He's still really, really enjoying life.'
0:02:10 > 0:02:13'If he goes to Switzerland, there is a price to be paid by other
0:02:13 > 0:02:17'people and they may not be that happy to pay it.'
0:02:21 > 0:02:23'How he dies is so important.
0:02:23 > 0:02:27'For our children, for his sisters, his mother.'
0:02:30 > 0:02:34However final it might feel to you now,
0:02:34 > 0:02:39today is not the last word for Simon.
0:02:59 > 0:03:01- DEBBIE:- This is our lovely room.
0:03:04 > 0:03:05Huh!
0:03:05 > 0:03:09Have you enjoyed your day in the mountains, Simon?
0:03:09 > 0:03:11SHE CHUCKLES
0:03:11 > 0:03:13Has it been frustrating, not being able to speak?
0:03:16 > 0:03:18But you had a nice time?
0:03:21 > 0:03:23Good.
0:03:24 > 0:03:28You know, it's your 14th wedding anniversary today.
0:03:30 > 0:03:31How does that make you feel?
0:03:31 > 0:03:33SHE CHUCKLES
0:03:35 > 0:03:40Happy anniversary to Debbie and Simon.
0:03:40 > 0:03:43Simon, I've zoomed in, I can see you really well!
0:03:45 > 0:03:48'We've been married 14 years and we've just had such fun together.'
0:03:48 > 0:03:50Aah! Simon!
0:03:50 > 0:03:54'He's like a little boy, in some ways!
0:03:54 > 0:03:56'But I like his energy.
0:03:56 > 0:04:01'I like the fact life seems very alive when he's there.'
0:04:01 > 0:04:03THEY LAUGH
0:04:07 > 0:04:14'He just makes every day just brighter and puts colour in life.
0:04:18 > 0:04:24'Six months ago, we got this diagnosis, motor neurone disease.
0:04:24 > 0:04:28'Terminal illness. Between six months and two years.'
0:04:28 > 0:04:33They can't do anything at all to slow the illness down
0:04:33 > 0:04:36or to change the prognosis, there is nothing at all, nothing.
0:04:39 > 0:04:40Grandad...
0:04:40 > 0:04:44ELECTRONIC VOICE: 'Roman, Roman, Roman.
0:04:44 > 0:04:47'Come here, I have got something to show you.'
0:04:47 > 0:04:49Did you hear that? Grandad's got something to show you.
0:04:49 > 0:04:51'You are a silly boy.'
0:04:52 > 0:04:56- No!- 'You are a silly boy.' - Top banana!
0:04:57 > 0:04:59'Top banana. Happy days.'
0:04:59 > 0:05:00Top banana, happy days!
0:05:00 > 0:05:05SIMON LAUGHS Top banana, happy days!
0:05:12 > 0:05:16'This machine is slow and frustrating
0:05:16 > 0:05:18'for a man of my immense intellect.'
0:05:18 > 0:05:21HE LAUGHS
0:05:27 > 0:05:32'For a man of my immense intellect and Cambridge education,
0:05:32 > 0:05:36'even though I only got a third-class degree.'
0:05:36 > 0:05:38THEY LAUGH
0:05:38 > 0:05:43'Third-class degree is a gentleman's degree that shows healthy
0:05:43 > 0:05:45'interest in other things.'
0:05:45 > 0:05:47Exactly.
0:05:47 > 0:05:50Ha! Exactly.
0:05:50 > 0:05:54'For Simon, who's a fantastic communicator, very amusing,
0:05:54 > 0:05:58'very quick-witted, if you could take something away from him
0:05:58 > 0:06:01'that would be the worst possible thing, it would be his voice.'
0:06:01 > 0:06:03ELECTRONIC VOICE: 'Dratted disease!'
0:06:03 > 0:06:05'People talk to me and not to him.'
0:06:05 > 0:06:09I don't want to take over, so it's quite a difficult balance between
0:06:09 > 0:06:12feeling quite protective, and I know my daughter Hannah does, as well.
0:06:12 > 0:06:16People always commented on your Northern accent,
0:06:16 > 0:06:19it's not something I really noticed at all.
0:06:19 > 0:06:21Um, but I probably just didn't care.
0:06:21 > 0:06:23Or maybe I wasn't listening most of the time!
0:06:23 > 0:06:27Christmas, December 2013.
0:06:27 > 0:06:30SIMON'S VOICE ON VIDEO CLIP: Will you give me a little kissy now?
0:06:30 > 0:06:33- Urgh!- Just give me a little kiss...
0:06:34 > 0:06:37- OK, here we go.- Yay!
0:06:38 > 0:06:40And what's this one?
0:06:40 > 0:06:43What's this one? What noise does it make?
0:06:43 > 0:06:45Yay!
0:06:45 > 0:06:47Yay!
0:07:26 > 0:07:29That's my little baby, at home in Leeds.
0:07:33 > 0:07:37There he is, now, that shows what he's going to be like, doesn't it?
0:07:37 > 0:07:39A laugh.
0:07:41 > 0:07:47Simon was only ever off school two days, he never got ill.
0:07:47 > 0:07:51It's come as a great shock to all of us, really.
0:07:51 > 0:07:54Sometimes, I wake up and it's absolutely dreadful
0:07:54 > 0:07:57and I think, now, how much must he be waking up
0:07:57 > 0:08:01thinking that he's got another thing that's not working?
0:08:10 > 0:08:11I mean...
0:08:36 > 0:08:38- VOICE ON SOUND CLIP: - 'Ever had a moment
0:08:38 > 0:08:41'when you realise just how much you care about the things you own?'
0:08:51 > 0:08:53'When it comes to a cooked breakfast,
0:08:53 > 0:08:55'some people pick and pack.'
0:09:00 > 0:09:03'Reducing our food waste by half could have the same
0:09:03 > 0:09:07'effect on CO2 emissions as taking thousands of cars off the road.'
0:09:13 > 0:09:15"Cool, natural, blokeish,
0:09:15 > 0:09:19"regional, warm, smooth, rich, gravelly..."
0:09:25 > 0:09:27HE LAUGHS
0:09:48 > 0:09:50'My name is Simon Binner.'
0:09:50 > 0:09:54I'm a very gregarious guy. An alpha male.
0:09:55 > 0:09:59'I have a loving family - Debbie, Hannah and her children,
0:09:59 > 0:10:03'and my brilliant daughter, Zoe, who lives in Germany.'
0:10:03 > 0:10:06I was extremely happy until my diagnosis.
0:10:09 > 0:10:14'I can feel my body changing week by week, and I'm now short of breath.
0:10:14 > 0:10:18'I'm going to give up driving a car imminently.
0:10:18 > 0:10:21'It's very sad for me.
0:10:22 > 0:10:26'I can't answer the phone or be a driving force at work.
0:10:26 > 0:10:28'In business, you need people to motivate
0:10:28 > 0:10:31'and paint sunlit visions of the future.
0:10:31 > 0:10:32'And I can't do that any more.
0:10:34 > 0:10:37'Originally, we were going to sell our business,
0:10:37 > 0:10:40'but I thought I would give my stepdaughter Hannah
0:10:40 > 0:10:42'the opportunity to see if she could do it.'
0:10:42 > 0:10:43How are you?
0:10:55 > 0:10:57- Add this to the gross.- Yes.
0:10:57 > 0:10:58This month?
0:10:58 > 0:11:00- No.- Next month.
0:11:01 > 0:11:03'He was operations director -
0:11:03 > 0:11:07'managing staff, organising meetings, everything.'
0:11:07 > 0:11:09So, we could save people a huge amount of money.
0:11:09 > 0:11:12So, who would it... Your company, who would it be...
0:11:12 > 0:11:16Sorry, your name again was...? Is it Brenda? Sorry, Deborah, sorry.
0:11:16 > 0:11:21Who is it in your company that we would need to speak to?
0:11:21 > 0:11:23'He was always the centre of attention,
0:11:23 > 0:11:25'the life and soul of the party.'
0:11:25 > 0:11:29AMERICAN ACCENT: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, good morning!
0:11:29 > 0:11:31My name's Rocco, Rocco Ancelotti,
0:11:31 > 0:11:34with the Global Pencil Company, here in New York City.
0:11:36 > 0:11:40When I first came in February, Simon was here most days.
0:11:40 > 0:11:44Now, Simon's probably here only one to two days a week,
0:11:44 > 0:11:45he gets quite tired.
0:12:47 > 0:12:49Oh...
0:12:52 > 0:12:54HE SOBS
0:13:04 > 0:13:06'I'm an independent type of guy
0:13:06 > 0:13:10'and the endgame of motor neurone disease is not to my taste.'
0:13:11 > 0:13:13Like a used car, I'm worn out,
0:13:13 > 0:13:17and it's no longer worth investing in the cost of repairs.
0:13:20 > 0:13:23'When we drove back from hospital after my diagnosis
0:13:23 > 0:13:26'in January, I decided then, en route in the car,
0:13:26 > 0:13:28'that I would have to either kill myself
0:13:28 > 0:13:30'or be euthanised in some way.'
0:13:32 > 0:13:35Motor neurone disease is a horrible disease to get.
0:13:35 > 0:13:38Typically, over six months to a year,
0:13:38 > 0:13:40their speaking is likely to get worse and worse
0:13:40 > 0:13:43until at some point, they won't be able to be understood by others.
0:13:43 > 0:13:46'Eventually, the arms will become completely paralysed,
0:13:46 > 0:13:50'the legs will become weaker and weaker, until eventually, someone
0:13:50 > 0:13:54'will need a stick to walk, then a walking frame, then a wheelchair.
0:13:54 > 0:13:58'But the thing that really carries people off is breathing difficulty.'
0:13:58 > 0:14:00It's fatal because, at some point,
0:14:00 > 0:14:04the muscles controlling the diaphragm will be affected.
0:14:04 > 0:14:06And when someone gets diaphragm weakness,
0:14:06 > 0:14:07they become short of breath,
0:14:07 > 0:14:10and we have things that can support people through that...
0:14:10 > 0:14:14through those symptoms, but, at some point, it becomes impossible.
0:14:15 > 0:14:17Whoa! Mummy!
0:14:20 > 0:14:23People might think, if they're able-bodied and able to walk around,
0:14:23 > 0:14:26they might think, "I would never want to be in a wheelchair."
0:14:26 > 0:14:29But it's not that the next day they'll be in a wheelchair,
0:14:29 > 0:14:32it's that, in a year's time they might be in a wheelchair.
0:14:32 > 0:14:35The process of getting to that point,
0:14:35 > 0:14:38they'll have adapted to other aspects of the illness,
0:14:38 > 0:14:39people actually cope far better
0:14:39 > 0:14:42than they might have thought at the beginning.
0:14:42 > 0:14:45Hardly anybody chooses assisted dying,
0:14:45 > 0:14:47less than 1% of our patients choose it.
0:14:47 > 0:14:50The vast majority choose palliative care
0:14:50 > 0:14:53and a peaceful death in that way.
0:15:15 > 0:15:19'I've always been quite anti assisted dying.'
0:15:19 > 0:15:22It's one of those dinner party conversations you have,
0:15:22 > 0:15:24never dreaming that you'd actually
0:15:24 > 0:15:26ever ACTUALLY be having this conversation.
0:15:29 > 0:15:34I think an assisted death, getting on a plane and going to Switzerland,
0:15:34 > 0:15:37actually, even the thought of it makes me feel physically sick,
0:15:37 > 0:15:40and I feel more and more,
0:15:40 > 0:15:44if I'm honest, utterly terrified of
0:15:44 > 0:15:47what it will be like, what the...
0:15:47 > 0:15:53And it's outside of most people's experience, so, um...
0:15:55 > 0:15:58- INTERVIEWER:- Have you tried to persuade him not to?
0:16:00 > 0:16:02I don't know, I feel... I feel very...
0:16:04 > 0:16:07..frightened to upset him any more.
0:16:07 > 0:16:12Because he is very upset, though you wouldn't necessarily see it,
0:16:12 > 0:16:14but he is becoming quite vulnerable.
0:16:14 > 0:16:17As I think people do when they become ill,
0:16:17 > 0:16:20however strong you are, when you become physically ill,
0:16:20 > 0:16:22you become more vulnerable.
0:16:22 > 0:16:25So, I think I kind of avoid conversations
0:16:25 > 0:16:27a lot of the time and just say,
0:16:27 > 0:16:30"Oh, a cup of tea?" Doing those...
0:16:30 > 0:16:33Trying to make everyday life OK.
0:16:33 > 0:16:36But, um, so, we don't really talk about it
0:16:36 > 0:16:39and I almost can't talk about it, because it...
0:16:40 > 0:16:41..makes it more real.
0:16:44 > 0:16:46CHILD GRIZZLES
0:16:46 > 0:16:49Shall we go to Grandad? Go to Grandad.
0:16:54 > 0:16:57- RADIO:- 'Should people have the right to die?
0:16:57 > 0:17:00'It's a question that's been asked for years.'
0:17:08 > 0:17:10'Helping someone to kill themselves is currently
0:17:10 > 0:17:14'punishable in England and Wales by up to 14 years in prison.'
0:17:14 > 0:17:17'There could be few issues of more fundamental importance
0:17:17 > 0:17:20'to society than how we treat the terminally ill.'
0:17:40 > 0:17:42'Thursday 19th.
0:17:45 > 0:17:47'E-mail to Dr Erika Preisig.
0:17:51 > 0:17:52'Hello, Dr Preisig.
0:17:55 > 0:17:59'I'm 57 and I was diagnosed with motor neurone disease
0:17:59 > 0:18:02'on the 7th January, 2015.
0:18:02 > 0:18:05'And I'd like to have an eccentric, rock-and-roll version
0:18:05 > 0:18:09'of your highly esteemed assisted-dying service.'
0:18:13 > 0:18:15'There's always so much traffic.
0:18:18 > 0:18:22'This is one reason why we usually start at 8.30.'
0:18:22 > 0:18:25- INTERVIEWER:- Do you always do them in the morning?
0:18:25 > 0:18:26Usually, yes.
0:18:26 > 0:18:29Usually, the authorities of Switzerland don't like us
0:18:29 > 0:18:31to do it in the afternoon.
0:18:33 > 0:18:36Because then, it runs into four or five o'clock
0:18:36 > 0:18:38and they want to go home.
0:18:43 > 0:18:45With assisted dying,
0:18:45 > 0:18:49there's three organisations who accept foreigners in Switzerland.
0:18:50 > 0:18:53Dignitas is the biggest one,
0:18:53 > 0:18:57lifecircle - it works in Basel.
0:18:59 > 0:19:02'We have two assisted dyings a week.
0:19:04 > 0:19:06'They have to send mails,
0:19:06 > 0:19:09'send doctor's reports about their illness.
0:19:11 > 0:19:15'I show the documents to another doctor, who is going to see them.
0:19:17 > 0:19:19'And if he says, "I think we can accept him,"
0:19:19 > 0:19:22'then he gets the provisional green light.'
0:19:43 > 0:19:45This is the medication.
0:19:51 > 0:19:53It's a powder that you have to dissolve.
0:19:57 > 0:20:00It's an anaesthetic, and if you take half a gram,
0:20:00 > 0:20:04you can have a big operation,
0:20:04 > 0:20:06which makes us feel safe
0:20:06 > 0:20:09that you feel no pain,
0:20:09 > 0:20:11you feel no fear, nothing.
0:20:13 > 0:20:18And this is 30 times the dose of a normal anaesthetic.
0:20:23 > 0:20:27'It takes 30 seconds until they fall asleep.
0:20:28 > 0:20:30'Within these 30 seconds,
0:20:30 > 0:20:33'the family can sit close, hold hands,
0:20:33 > 0:20:35'say a last few words.
0:20:37 > 0:20:40'And within about four minutes, the heart stops beating
0:20:40 > 0:20:42'and they are dead.'
0:20:44 > 0:20:47- BUZZER SOUNDS - OK, good.
0:20:58 > 0:21:00TRANSLATION:
0:21:19 > 0:21:21- RADIO:- 'In just two months' time, the controversial
0:21:21 > 0:21:25'Assisted Dying Bill will be voted on by MPs
0:21:25 > 0:21:28'for the first time in almost 20 years.'
0:21:36 > 0:21:39'Doctors would be allowed to give a lethal dose of drugs
0:21:39 > 0:21:41'to adults who have asked for help to die
0:21:41 > 0:21:44'and are thought to have less than six months to live.'
0:21:44 > 0:21:46'Disabled people and people who are terminally ill
0:21:46 > 0:21:49'would like people to alleviate our suffering
0:21:49 > 0:21:53'by helping us live better lives, not by killing us.'
0:21:53 > 0:21:57'The pressure that is going to be put on terminally ill people,
0:21:57 > 0:21:59'they'd end up thinking, "I should go, I'm going
0:21:59 > 0:22:01' "to be a burden on my family, it's right for me..." '
0:22:01 > 0:22:04'The Church remains strongly opposed to assisted dying...'
0:22:04 > 0:22:08'I want to see much more emphasis put on supporting people in living,
0:22:08 > 0:22:11'than assisting them in dying.'
0:22:14 > 0:22:15Come on.
0:22:18 > 0:22:20Onward!
0:22:20 > 0:22:22Good boy.
0:22:22 > 0:22:23Onward!
0:23:07 > 0:23:08Good boy.
0:23:09 > 0:23:10Good boy.
0:23:12 > 0:23:14Good boy.
0:23:18 > 0:23:21'In the future, when Ralph becomes poorly,
0:23:21 > 0:23:25'we'll call the vet to our house and we'll all stroke Ralph
0:23:25 > 0:23:29'and say our last goodbyes to the most loyal of dogs.
0:23:29 > 0:23:32'And then, he'll gently be put to sleep.'
0:23:32 > 0:23:35And that's what I'd like for me.
0:23:37 > 0:23:41'There's a time to live and a time to die.
0:23:42 > 0:23:46'Right now would be my ideal time to die.
0:23:50 > 0:23:53'Debbie's plight causes me incredible sadness,
0:23:53 > 0:23:57'because she's been so kind to me and so kind to Chloe.
0:23:59 > 0:24:01'We loved Chloe so much.
0:24:01 > 0:24:04'She was the centre of our lives.'
0:24:07 > 0:24:09Chloe was my youngest daughter.
0:24:15 > 0:24:18She got a rare bone cancer at 15.
0:24:21 > 0:24:23She had treatment for three years
0:24:23 > 0:24:25and then she died when she was 18,
0:24:25 > 0:24:27which was two years ago.
0:24:28 > 0:24:32But the pain became unbearable for her at one point
0:24:32 > 0:24:35and she asked me to kill her.
0:24:35 > 0:24:37And I think...
0:24:39 > 0:24:42..to have, you know, your 18-year-old daughter
0:24:42 > 0:24:43asking you to do that...
0:24:43 > 0:24:46But we had a fantastic palliative care team, absolutely fantastic
0:24:46 > 0:24:50palliative care team, and they came round and sorted it out.
0:24:50 > 0:24:54Then the next day, she woke up, as kids do at that age, and said,
0:24:54 > 0:24:57"Oh, I'm sorry I asked you to do that, Mum."
0:24:57 > 0:25:00It was like... "Oh, my God!"
0:25:00 > 0:25:04And then, we went on and had a few months of some lovely times.
0:25:11 > 0:25:14Losing a child, there's nothing worse than that,
0:25:14 > 0:25:16but there was something...
0:25:17 > 0:25:20..more natural? I don't know.
0:25:20 > 0:25:24In that we knew that we had...
0:25:24 > 0:25:26This is so hard,
0:25:26 > 0:25:30because motor neurone disease is such a different illness, but...
0:25:30 > 0:25:35There was still hope with my daughter, right up to the end,
0:25:35 > 0:25:40we were still hoping for another day, and we had lovely times,
0:25:40 > 0:25:42and I guess, maybe, if I thought about it,
0:25:42 > 0:25:46there's a bit of anger in me that, you know,
0:25:46 > 0:25:48why can't Simon just do that?
0:25:48 > 0:25:52You know, your life closes in when you get ill, I think,
0:25:52 > 0:25:56but we still really enjoyed watching telly together,
0:25:56 > 0:26:01or eating together, and it's those little things that become so...
0:26:01 > 0:26:04So, maybe, there's a bit of me that thinks, "Oh, why can't you,
0:26:04 > 0:26:06"you know, do that?" But...
0:26:26 > 0:26:27'Wednesday 24th.
0:26:29 > 0:26:30'Hello, Erika.
0:26:30 > 0:26:34'I've just used Google Maps and you're only 90 minutes' drive
0:26:34 > 0:26:36'from Freiburg, Germany, where Debbie and I
0:26:36 > 0:26:40'will be on holiday with two friends, Will and Chris Watson.
0:26:40 > 0:26:44'Will Watson is also my business partner.
0:26:44 > 0:26:47'We were both born in November 1957.
0:26:47 > 0:26:49'I've known him since we were
0:26:49 > 0:26:52'eight-year-old boys at Bolton School.
0:26:52 > 0:26:56'I could get Will to drive me over to meet you, if that was convenient.
0:26:58 > 0:27:02'I would like to book myself into your clinic on Monday, 2nd November.
0:27:02 > 0:27:04'Ebullient regards, Simon Binner.'
0:27:06 > 0:27:08If you say you want to go on the 2nd of November,
0:27:08 > 0:27:10what if you, a week before, say,
0:27:10 > 0:27:13"Well, I want to hang on a bit longer?"
0:27:19 > 0:27:21- You don't know that.- You don't know.
0:27:21 > 0:27:24- No, I won't. - Well, I'll ask her that.
0:27:24 > 0:27:26What's so significant about the 2nd of November?
0:27:26 > 0:27:28It's his birthday.
0:27:29 > 0:27:32'We met at primary school.'
0:27:34 > 0:27:38He was always the guy telling jokes, the, the...
0:27:38 > 0:27:41the big man in the crowd, the leader of the gang.
0:27:52 > 0:27:56- Oh, OK. - So, you'll be quirky in that...
0:27:56 > 0:28:00'One worry I have with Simon,
0:28:00 > 0:28:04'he has a tendency for the big gesture.
0:28:04 > 0:28:06'That this may be'
0:28:06 > 0:28:10the big gesture to end them all, if you see what I mean.
0:28:10 > 0:28:14And that once he's made the decision and publicised his intention,
0:28:14 > 0:28:19he will then feel locked into it, even though
0:28:19 > 0:28:22he might be having second thoughts later.
0:28:22 > 0:28:25- So, you haven't actually met her before?- No.
0:28:25 > 0:28:29- Have you thought of the questions you want to ask her?- No.
0:28:29 > 0:28:31Well, THAT is a worry.
0:28:31 > 0:28:34It worries me that you're not thinking these things through.
0:28:34 > 0:28:38No, I have thought these things through!
0:28:41 > 0:28:43How do you know you're going downhill?
0:28:50 > 0:28:52But that doesn't stop you living.
0:28:52 > 0:28:55You can eat, your arms and legs work, you can see,
0:28:55 > 0:28:57you can hear, you can...
0:28:59 > 0:29:02Everyone feels vulnerable at some point, so...
0:29:02 > 0:29:04And you're not thinking about these things, you're just saying,
0:29:04 > 0:29:07"I'm booking on the 2nd November."
0:29:07 > 0:29:08Because I think that's panic.
0:29:08 > 0:29:10I am going down like this.
0:29:10 > 0:29:14Yes, but... No, you are saying you are going down like this...
0:29:14 > 0:29:16- I am, I am!- You're not.
0:29:23 > 0:29:28We have far too many demands for assisted dying.
0:29:28 > 0:29:31More demands than you have dates to give to the people.
0:29:33 > 0:29:34Ja.
0:29:34 > 0:29:38Klar, klar, klar. Ja.
0:29:39 > 0:29:42'How can you decide to which ones you say no,
0:29:42 > 0:29:45'to which ones you say yes?'
0:29:45 > 0:29:47Come in. Come in.
0:29:49 > 0:29:51'In Switzerland, the guidelines are,
0:29:51 > 0:29:56'you must have some sort of illness, you must be of sound mind,
0:29:56 > 0:30:01'you must have been thinking about it for a long time.
0:30:02 > 0:30:04'I have to listen and make sure'
0:30:04 > 0:30:07they are not throwing something away, the most precious
0:30:07 > 0:30:12gift of life, that has ever been given to them, too early.
0:30:30 > 0:30:32- Yes.- Never.
0:30:43 > 0:30:45You have thought it through.
0:30:48 > 0:30:49- You want to die.- Yeah.
0:30:49 > 0:30:52Yes.
0:31:04 > 0:31:08You have an incurable illness, you are of sound mind,
0:31:08 > 0:31:12you don't seem to be depressed, even though you have a very bad illness,
0:31:12 > 0:31:13which is very good...
0:31:13 > 0:31:16- Can I ask you a question about it? - Yes, of course.
0:31:16 > 0:31:20Because how do you know he's of sound mind at the moment?
0:31:20 > 0:31:22Just by talking to him.
0:31:22 > 0:31:24- Right.- Just by listening to him.
0:31:24 > 0:31:27Could it be that he's just really scared today
0:31:27 > 0:31:30and that maybe as time...
0:31:30 > 0:31:34Like tomorrow, the next day, he might feel a bit different.
0:31:34 > 0:31:38Cos his... Cos I live with him and see his mood go up and down.
0:31:38 > 0:31:41Yes, yes.
0:31:41 > 0:31:45I think what makes me worry is that he's so frightened...
0:31:50 > 0:31:52But you're frightened of being incapacitated.
0:31:57 > 0:31:59Yeah, OK.
0:32:05 > 0:32:07It worries me that it's a knee-jerk reaction.
0:32:07 > 0:32:11"Right, that's it. I'm going and..."
0:32:12 > 0:32:16And I want him to think about it more deeply and...
0:32:16 > 0:32:18It depends on what you want.
0:32:18 > 0:32:21But it's your decision.
0:32:21 > 0:32:24Why are you so sure, Erika?
0:32:24 > 0:32:27Why do you feel so passionately about it?
0:32:27 > 0:32:30You only have to listen to people.
0:32:30 > 0:32:32You really have to listen to them.
0:32:32 > 0:32:34You know, he's not a child.
0:32:34 > 0:32:37He knows what he wants to do.
0:32:37 > 0:32:39And it is his life.
0:32:39 > 0:32:42He has been taking responsibility for his life
0:32:42 > 0:32:43for many, many years,
0:32:43 > 0:32:46and he's a strong-minded person.
0:32:46 > 0:32:49And now, at the end of life,
0:32:49 > 0:32:50that he gets weaker...
0:32:52 > 0:32:54..he is still strong-minded,
0:32:54 > 0:32:57but people tend to treat
0:32:57 > 0:33:00as if they were children.
0:33:02 > 0:33:05I can understand what you want.
0:33:05 > 0:33:08You would like to keep your husband as long as possible
0:33:08 > 0:33:10- because you love him.- Mm.
0:33:11 > 0:33:16- And it's very, very difficult to accept.- Mm.
0:33:18 > 0:33:21Saying goodbye before nature...
0:33:23 > 0:33:25..forces you to.
0:33:26 > 0:33:28- Mm.- Um...
0:33:28 > 0:33:32People who have to let go do the more difficult job
0:33:32 > 0:33:35- than the people who go.- Mm.
0:33:35 > 0:33:37That's very important to know.
0:33:37 > 0:33:40It is much easier to go into an assisted dying
0:33:40 > 0:33:44than to accept an assisted dying. Do you know why?
0:33:46 > 0:33:49After you're dead, you're dead.
0:33:49 > 0:33:52- Yeah.- You're out of the problems. - Yeah.
0:33:52 > 0:33:54But your wife has to go on living.
0:34:00 > 0:34:05You must ask yourself - is it his decision? Is it your decision?
0:34:05 > 0:34:07- Is it his life? Is it your life?- Mm.
0:34:09 > 0:34:11I know it's difficult.
0:34:14 > 0:34:19Dying does not have to be something horrible. Dying can be something...
0:34:19 > 0:34:21Something like a ceremony.
0:34:21 > 0:34:24Do you know, last week, we had an assisted dying
0:34:24 > 0:34:29and this lady had 21 people who were with her.
0:34:29 > 0:34:31- Really?- 21 people.
0:34:31 > 0:34:34That was the most... the highest number that we ever had.
0:34:34 > 0:34:37And it was so nice...
0:34:41 > 0:34:43You must do it your way.
0:34:51 > 0:34:54- You would like to die on your birthday?- Yeah.
0:34:58 > 0:35:03I'm a little bit afraid that you hang on to your birthday
0:35:03 > 0:35:08so strongly that you are not willing to postpone it.
0:35:08 > 0:35:13If you were as well as you are now on the end of October,
0:35:13 > 0:35:15would you postpone it?
0:35:15 > 0:35:18- If you were exactly like you are now?- Yes.
0:35:18 > 0:35:21- Then you would postpone it?- Yes.
0:35:21 > 0:35:25For me, it is important to know this.
0:35:25 > 0:35:27I do not want you to go too early.
0:35:36 > 0:35:38The 2nd November?
0:35:38 > 0:35:42You are welcome to have an assisted dying, for sure.
0:35:49 > 0:35:53(Things you bloody put me through.)
0:36:51 > 0:36:55It is a big step to take, isn't it?
0:36:55 > 0:36:57And he is doing it on his birthday.
0:36:58 > 0:37:01- Are you going to go, too? - Yes. I am.
0:37:02 > 0:37:04I was there when he was born.
0:37:07 > 0:37:11I don't encourage him, but I will go along with whatever he wants.
0:37:11 > 0:37:15He will stay as long as he's enjoying himself, won't he?
0:37:15 > 0:37:17I think.
0:37:17 > 0:37:21I don't know if anybody ever does go to Switzerland and come home,
0:37:21 > 0:37:25change their mind. I don't know if they've ever done. Do you?
0:37:29 > 0:37:32TEXT ALERT
0:37:32 > 0:37:33'Text message to College Boys.
0:37:36 > 0:37:40'I am booked to die now on Monday, 2nd November.
0:37:40 > 0:37:42'Thank you for bringing the annual Christ College reunion
0:37:42 > 0:37:44'forwards on my account.'
0:38:04 > 0:38:0539 years now.
0:38:08 > 0:38:10In a way, we're like brothers.
0:38:13 > 0:38:16He was the funny one, he always made us laugh.
0:38:24 > 0:38:26We have always laughed a lot.
0:38:26 > 0:38:29Binner told the best jokes that I'd ever heard.
0:38:29 > 0:38:31We used to do ludicrous things.
0:38:31 > 0:38:34Binner and I used to try and not go to bed for 72 hours.
0:38:34 > 0:38:37So, we would stay up for days and nights
0:38:37 > 0:38:39cos we'd try and hallucinate.
0:38:39 > 0:38:41Nothing was predictable.
0:38:41 > 0:38:44There was some holiday where he managed to tell people
0:38:44 > 0:38:46all the way through, for some bizarre reason,
0:38:46 > 0:38:48that he was a funeral director,
0:38:48 > 0:38:51and maintained this fiction for two weeks or something.
0:38:51 > 0:38:54- Salut!- Salute!- Get it right, man!
0:38:54 > 0:38:57Salut! Is it salut or salute?
0:38:57 > 0:39:01We are actually all feeling distraught, you know?
0:39:01 > 0:39:05We have sustained a very close set of friendships all this time
0:39:05 > 0:39:08and he is utterly central to our group.
0:39:08 > 0:39:10And, uh,
0:39:10 > 0:39:13I know I am probably more sentimental than many other people,
0:39:13 > 0:39:16and I have cried every time I've seen him for the last few months!
0:39:16 > 0:39:18So, I saw him last Saturday, I cried pathetically.
0:39:18 > 0:39:20Some of these people here,
0:39:20 > 0:39:22this will be the last time they see him.
0:39:22 > 0:39:24Really good to see you.
0:39:26 > 0:39:30I was sort of shocked and surprised
0:39:30 > 0:39:34to know that Simon had set a date for his, uh...
0:39:36 > 0:39:39What's the appropriate term? Assisted suicide?
0:39:39 > 0:39:44He seems to be checking out ahead of his time.
0:39:44 > 0:39:49And I am not entirely comfortable with his decision.
0:39:53 > 0:39:55We're all crushed.
0:39:56 > 0:39:59How can one be reconciled to someone who is so great
0:39:59 > 0:40:03taking themselves off at the age of 58 and killing themselves?
0:40:05 > 0:40:09I think he's chosen a date which is too soon.
0:40:15 > 0:40:17"Bins, I know you feel strongly about it
0:40:17 > 0:40:19"but I do feel that setting
0:40:19 > 0:40:24"a date in advance is potentially deeply problematic. Debs has real
0:40:24 > 0:40:28"qualms about you choosing the date in advance and that worries me, too.
0:40:29 > 0:40:31"Debbie has rights in this."
0:40:41 > 0:40:45Taking yourself off to Switzerland could be seen as selfish.
0:40:48 > 0:40:50Binner is very forceful,
0:40:50 > 0:40:53but he is arguable-with. If Debbie was more resolute in saying,
0:40:53 > 0:40:57"Binnie, no, you can't do this, I forbid you from doing it."
0:40:57 > 0:41:01That would make it a much more difficult matter for all of us.
0:42:22 > 0:42:24'He is changing as a person.
0:42:25 > 0:42:27'I sense his, kind of, creeping isolation.'
0:42:28 > 0:42:31I am doing more and more,
0:42:31 > 0:42:34which he gets increasingly cross about, but...
0:42:40 > 0:42:44'I hate the fact that he thinks because he has an illness,
0:42:44 > 0:42:47'he is somehow less worthy of being able to live,
0:42:47 > 0:42:49'enjoy things and have the right to stay alive.
0:42:51 > 0:42:54'I feel very, very strongly that he is not a burden.'
0:42:54 > 0:42:55DOORBELL RINGS
0:42:59 > 0:43:02It's those little practical things that can help.
0:43:02 > 0:43:05Ralph needs to be walked twice a day.
0:43:05 > 0:43:08Um, he can't walk Ralph now.
0:43:13 > 0:43:16- What?- Mountain biking.
0:43:17 > 0:43:19Mountain biking.
0:43:19 > 0:43:22- "Moneymaking"? - No! Mountain!
0:43:23 > 0:43:25Biking...
0:43:25 > 0:43:26Oh, yes, mountain biking.
0:43:26 > 0:43:31So, I mean, three months ago, less than three months ago,
0:43:31 > 0:43:35Bins and I were cycling in the Italian Alps, cycling up mountains.
0:43:36 > 0:43:39The speed of change, it's accelerated.
0:43:45 > 0:43:48We are all in fast-forward at the moment, and you want to try
0:43:48 > 0:43:52and stall it, you want to try and capture every moment. And you can't.
0:43:54 > 0:43:57How are you feeling about the November date?
0:43:57 > 0:44:00Uh, I am dreading it.
0:44:00 > 0:44:03And I am disbelieving it, in a way,
0:44:03 > 0:44:05I don't want to believe it,
0:44:05 > 0:44:07because that's...
0:44:07 > 0:44:10I'm probably not the only one, that's my way of coping.
0:44:10 > 0:44:12As I was coming over here today,
0:44:12 > 0:44:15I was figuring out how many days left, you know,
0:44:15 > 0:44:16how many weeks left.
0:44:16 > 0:44:19And it's... And it's...
0:44:19 > 0:44:21It's going so quickly.
0:44:22 > 0:44:27- Well, it's...- Uh...- It's eight weeks, just under eight weeks now.
0:44:41 > 0:44:45Are you OK this morning? Yes?
0:45:31 > 0:45:33All right?
0:45:33 > 0:45:35Yeah?
0:45:37 > 0:45:38Yes.
0:45:43 > 0:45:45Three.
0:45:45 > 0:45:47OK, OK.
0:45:56 > 0:45:58- Thank you.- Yes?
0:45:58 > 0:46:01- Thank you.- You're welcome.
0:46:11 > 0:46:14- RADIO:- 'MPs will today be debating whether to legalise assisted dying.
0:46:14 > 0:46:17'The Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby,
0:46:17 > 0:46:20'has described it as one of the biggest dilemmas of our time.'
0:46:21 > 0:46:23'Order!
0:46:23 > 0:46:26'It's a great honour to speak on a debate
0:46:26 > 0:46:28'which is actually a matter of life or death.'
0:46:37 > 0:46:40'I think it's naive to believe that we can prevent
0:46:40 > 0:46:44'the persuasion of an elderly, expensive or asset-rich relative
0:46:44 > 0:46:46'being encouraged, coerced or emotionally
0:46:46 > 0:46:49- 'blackmailed into taking their own life.- MPS:- Hear, hear!
0:46:49 > 0:46:53'I've cared for my husband for five years,
0:46:53 > 0:46:58'and I saw when life changed to being a burden.
0:46:58 > 0:47:02'Who wants to travel to Switzerland? Why should we have to?
0:47:02 > 0:47:05'Why can't we die at home, which is where most people want to?
0:47:05 > 0:47:09'We are here to protect the most vulnerable in our society,
0:47:09 > 0:47:12'not to legislate to kill them.
0:47:12 > 0:47:14'It says something for any society,
0:47:14 > 0:47:17'the way in which they look after their most vulnerable
0:47:17 > 0:47:20'and their elderly, and I fundamentally worry
0:47:20 > 0:47:23'that we are starting down a path that essentially says
0:47:23 > 0:47:25'that those lives are worth less.
0:47:25 > 0:47:26'MPS CHEER IN AGREEMENT'
0:47:30 > 0:47:34I am a GP from Margate and I'm very concerned that this bill,
0:47:34 > 0:47:36I think, is detrimental to this country.
0:47:36 > 0:47:40Essentially, if this goes through, metaphorically, on Monday morning,
0:47:40 > 0:47:42I could cure people with my left hand and kill them with my right.
0:47:42 > 0:47:47It is God who determines when a person should die.
0:47:47 > 0:47:50It is God's will, isn't it? Good old God!
0:47:50 > 0:47:52Oh, yes, oh, yes! It's the meaning of life.
0:47:52 > 0:47:55Well, that's good for you, cos I don't believe in God,
0:47:55 > 0:47:59cos your so-called God took my wife away.
0:47:59 > 0:48:01- RADIO:- 'The House of Commons has voted decisively
0:48:01 > 0:48:04'against proposals to give terminally ill patients
0:48:04 > 0:48:07'the right to end their lives under medical supervision.'
0:48:19 > 0:48:22'This is such a crushing defeat, it settles this matter
0:48:22 > 0:48:26'in terms of legislation for the foreseeable future.
0:48:26 > 0:48:30'It leaves us with the status quo of one Briton per fortnight
0:48:30 > 0:48:34'travelling to Switzerland to die with the help of the suicide...'
0:48:34 > 0:48:37SKYPE RINGTONE
0:49:08 > 0:49:11I've become suddenly very, kind of strong-willed about it.
0:49:11 > 0:49:14I think I was just going along with Simon,
0:49:14 > 0:49:16and I suddenly felt this isn't the right decision.
0:49:16 > 0:49:20This isn't right for him, and he's giving mixed messages.
0:49:21 > 0:49:24We need to explore another way.
0:49:29 > 0:49:32And when the Assisted Dying Bill got voted down yesterday
0:49:32 > 0:49:33I was pleased,
0:49:33 > 0:49:36and I thought it was the, kind of...
0:49:36 > 0:49:39I am only just saying what I think.
0:49:41 > 0:49:46It's a kind of vote for the sanctity of a human life, to me,
0:49:46 > 0:49:50without sounding too twee and dramatic about it. But, this...
0:49:51 > 0:49:53I want to look really, really carefully
0:49:53 > 0:49:55at what's on offer with hospice care.
0:49:55 > 0:49:57Simon can tell me to bugger off,
0:49:57 > 0:49:59it's his life, but that's how I feel.
0:50:06 > 0:50:11Simon was referred by his consultant at King's.
0:50:11 > 0:50:14His first appointment was very much focusing on
0:50:14 > 0:50:16what we could offer here at St Christopher's,
0:50:16 > 0:50:19what sort of medical intervention we could offer.
0:50:22 > 0:50:25If someone's breathless, for example when someone develops
0:50:25 > 0:50:28breathing difficulty because of diaphragm weakness,
0:50:28 > 0:50:31the first thing we can do is offer them non-invasive ventilation,
0:50:31 > 0:50:33which is a mask that goes over the face.
0:50:33 > 0:50:37When they breathe in, it detects that and helps by blowing air in.
0:50:38 > 0:50:40But at some point, it won't be effective.
0:50:42 > 0:50:47To take away the feeling of panic or breathlessness, we give morphine.
0:50:47 > 0:50:50If that happens to shorten life, then so be it.
0:50:50 > 0:50:53The law and the ethics around this are very clear.
0:50:53 > 0:50:55We're not allowed to give drugs to end someone's life,
0:50:55 > 0:50:58but if the aim of giving a drug is to relieve distress,
0:50:58 > 0:51:00and that might shorten life,
0:51:00 > 0:51:02we are ethically obliged to give that treatment.
0:51:07 > 0:51:09We then talked about the fact
0:51:09 > 0:51:13that he'd taken total control over going to Switzerland.
0:51:15 > 0:51:18But knowing that Debbie and his family didn't want him to go
0:51:18 > 0:51:21was really sort of conflicting him.
0:51:25 > 0:51:28He really sort of talked about Debbie...
0:51:28 > 0:51:30wanting to do it sort of right by her.
0:51:32 > 0:51:36With Debbie losing Chloe two years previously,
0:51:36 > 0:51:39the impact on her was going to be absolutely enormous.
0:51:39 > 0:51:41He was very mindful of that,
0:51:41 > 0:51:45so that really played into his decision-making.
0:52:00 > 0:52:02We'd been told very clearly
0:52:02 > 0:52:06that actually the death from motor neurone disease is not a bad death.
0:52:08 > 0:52:09It's often with pneumonia.
0:52:09 > 0:52:14And, actually, we're living with disability now and we're managing.
0:52:17 > 0:52:22And we have nice times and difficult times and sometimes you wake up
0:52:22 > 0:52:25and think, "God, this is dreadful, how has this happened?"
0:52:25 > 0:52:27And other times, we're sitting laughing,
0:52:27 > 0:52:29surrounded by family and friends.
0:52:29 > 0:52:34And there's still lots of bits that are really lovely about life.
0:52:34 > 0:52:40And I cannot take him to Basel
0:52:40 > 0:52:42because I don't think it's...
0:52:42 > 0:52:45One, I don't think it's the right thing to do, and two,
0:52:45 > 0:52:50and perhaps most importantly, I don't believe he really wants to go.
0:52:52 > 0:52:54- INTERVIEWER:- You are reconsidering?
0:52:57 > 0:52:59He is, apparently.
0:52:59 > 0:53:00I am.
0:53:03 > 0:53:06'In him reconsidering, we suddenly have hope again.'
0:53:08 > 0:53:09That's a real change.
0:53:17 > 0:53:21'I thought they'd be indifferent to the timing of my demise.
0:53:21 > 0:53:22'I was so wrong.
0:53:24 > 0:53:28'If I was single, I'd be gone. Definitely.'
0:53:32 > 0:53:34But I'm not single.
0:53:34 > 0:53:37And I have responsibilities to others
0:53:37 > 0:53:39that I'm only now starting to fully understand.
0:53:50 > 0:53:52'Tuesday, 22nd September.
0:53:53 > 0:53:55'Dear friends, we're having
0:53:55 > 0:53:58'another one of my ludicrous games parties this Friday.
0:54:01 > 0:54:03'Hoop a cone will be a featured event.
0:54:03 > 0:54:07'And women have all been instructed to wear trousers for the tree swing.
0:54:08 > 0:54:11'Tim, on account of your height and bulk,
0:54:11 > 0:54:14'you are hereby duly appointed CBTO -
0:54:14 > 0:54:17'Chief Bins Transportation Officer.
0:54:18 > 0:54:21'Congratulations upon your elevation to high office.'
0:54:30 > 0:54:32Here?
0:54:32 > 0:54:33Here?
0:54:42 > 0:54:44ALL CHATTER
0:54:47 > 0:54:50CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:54:52 > 0:54:54He's still taking part in things.
0:54:54 > 0:54:56He's very competitive.
0:54:58 > 0:54:59This wins it.
0:55:01 > 0:55:03Yes.
0:55:04 > 0:55:06Yes!
0:55:06 > 0:55:09He can still write.
0:55:09 > 0:55:13When his writing slows down, we don't know what will happen.
0:55:13 > 0:55:15But at the moment, he's doing very well, actually,
0:55:15 > 0:55:18and getting so much support from everybody.
0:55:18 > 0:55:23He's always been very sociable, and, in the years, it's paid off.
0:55:23 > 0:55:27He's got all his daft friends that have grown up very supportive.
0:55:27 > 0:55:29- It's the most uncomfortable bloody seat.- Are you on?
0:55:29 > 0:55:33- I suppose so, yes.- Right, do you want left hand or right hand?
0:55:33 > 0:55:37I think left hand, cos I'm going to hold on tight with my right hand.
0:55:37 > 0:55:41'It feels like a stay of execution. That's exactly what it feels like.
0:55:42 > 0:55:46'I still value his friendship, I still enjoy being in his company.'
0:55:54 > 0:56:00'When we were children, there was always some competition going on.
0:56:05 > 0:56:07'I think he's still enjoying life.
0:56:10 > 0:56:12'He laughs so much.'
0:56:13 > 0:56:15He writes his texts or his notes,
0:56:15 > 0:56:18and he's shaking with laughter at his own jokes.
0:56:25 > 0:56:28Whenever I see him, when I come home, I get in the car
0:56:28 > 0:56:33and I just think, "What a lovely day! What a happy house!"
0:56:39 > 0:56:43CHATTER
0:56:45 > 0:56:49Right, are you saying anything for me, you guys?
0:56:49 > 0:56:50Sunday.
0:56:52 > 0:56:54Nonsuch Park, the sun is shining.
0:57:02 > 0:57:05'Debbie doesn't want him to go to Switzerland.
0:57:06 > 0:57:09'It's given him a way to reconsider.
0:57:10 > 0:57:13'Analysing it day-by-day is probably a good thing.
0:57:13 > 0:57:16'But I think, in the end, it has to be his choice.
0:57:21 > 0:57:23'I don't think I do always know what he's feeling.'
0:57:30 > 0:57:36'I think the games are a way of Simon deflecting attention.
0:57:40 > 0:57:43'What is Simon going to be when he can't communicate?
0:57:46 > 0:57:49'And I wouldn't like him to let himself get to that stage
0:57:49 > 0:57:51'and then think,'
0:57:51 > 0:57:57"Oh, no, now, I'm hating everything, but I'm sort of trapped."
0:58:39 > 0:58:42'I'll be totally unable to communicate soon.
0:58:44 > 0:58:48'It's terrifying to think my only form of interaction will be gone.
0:58:51 > 0:58:54'Losing my voice is bad, but none...
0:58:56 > 0:58:57'None is terrible.'
0:59:09 > 0:59:11"Debbie Binner wrote.
0:59:11 > 0:59:13"Simon Binner - Urgent.
0:59:13 > 0:59:18"Dear Erika, Simon is sitting next to me after a terrifying morning.
0:59:18 > 0:59:20"He has tried to hang himself.
0:59:20 > 0:59:22"We have calmed him down.
0:59:22 > 0:59:26"But now, he is saying he needs to die now
0:59:26 > 0:59:28"and wants to come as soon as possible.
0:59:28 > 0:59:32"This Friday, 16th October, at the least.
0:59:32 > 0:59:35"Please, can you advise if it is possible.
0:59:35 > 0:59:37"He says he's desperate.
0:59:37 > 0:59:40"Debbie Binner. Kind regards."
0:59:43 > 0:59:48Yes, and I have told her that 16th October is not possible.
0:59:48 > 0:59:56And he promised me, by writing and by Debbie telling me,
0:59:56 > 1:00:00that he would accept to come on Monday 19th
1:00:00 > 1:00:04and he promised that he would not do something like that any more.
1:00:10 > 1:00:12Until this happened to Binner,
1:00:12 > 1:00:15I never really thought that you could be so frightened of not dying.
1:00:15 > 1:00:20And for Binns to have done what he did yesterday...
1:00:20 > 1:00:22sort of demonstrates -
1:00:22 > 1:00:25given he's not an unthinking or cruel person -
1:00:25 > 1:00:30sort of demonstrates the absolute horror that he feels,
1:00:30 > 1:00:33that, I think, you know, he was so overwhelmed
1:00:33 > 1:00:35that he kind of lost the plot, in a way,
1:00:35 > 1:00:38and did something which I think is...
1:00:39 > 1:00:42You know, he was properly sorry about.
1:00:46 > 1:00:53I think somehow we've missed those moments of unendurable tragedy.
1:00:53 > 1:00:57And...you know, you can just forget that
1:00:57 > 1:00:59because you just see him
1:00:59 > 1:01:01as funny and upbeat and...
1:01:01 > 1:01:03you know, hilarious.
1:01:05 > 1:01:10There's going to be a small farewell lunch party,
1:01:10 > 1:01:12which Debbie's sent a card...
1:01:12 > 1:01:14A sort of...
1:01:14 > 1:01:18Given where they are, quite a jolly note about...on...
1:01:18 > 1:01:19on Friday.
1:01:25 > 1:01:29"Dearest friends, our precious time is moving fast.
1:01:29 > 1:01:30"As I'm sure you all know,
1:01:30 > 1:01:33"my precious Simon is going to Switzerland to end his life
1:01:33 > 1:01:35"on Monday, 19th October.
1:01:36 > 1:01:37"We've had one hell of a week.
1:01:37 > 1:01:39"And in light of recent developments,
1:01:39 > 1:01:42"Switzerland seems the kindest and best option.
1:01:42 > 1:01:44"Simon has made it very clear that he's had enough."
1:01:51 > 1:01:53"Please know that you will find us beaten,
1:01:53 > 1:01:55"battle-weary and bruised on Friday.
1:01:55 > 1:01:58"But we love you all and want to celebrate one last time
1:01:58 > 1:02:02"in a gentle, more low-key way than before.
1:02:02 > 1:02:04"Love, hugs and strengths, Debbie."
1:02:26 > 1:02:28- INTERVIEWER:- Are you scared?
1:02:28 > 1:02:29No.
1:02:30 > 1:02:32No.
1:03:03 > 1:03:05He's not in a good state now,
1:03:05 > 1:03:09and I know, before, I fought and battled so hard,
1:03:09 > 1:03:14but he's made it very clear that he does not want to carry on his life.
1:03:17 > 1:03:19I feel furious, um...
1:03:22 > 1:03:24Tender. Loving.
1:03:24 > 1:03:27Um...protective.
1:03:27 > 1:03:29Um...
1:03:29 > 1:03:32So pleased I married him.
1:03:32 > 1:03:35And I'll miss him terribly.
1:03:41 > 1:03:43It's terribly sad, terribly sad.
1:03:43 > 1:03:47And, um... And we love each other.
1:03:47 > 1:03:48It's, um...
1:03:48 > 1:03:51But I think, at the end of the day,
1:03:51 > 1:03:53if you love someone,
1:03:53 > 1:03:56you have to do what they want to do.
1:03:58 > 1:03:59And...
1:03:59 > 1:04:04And I think we've got to the point where, when Simon does die,
1:04:04 > 1:04:05it's not...
1:04:05 > 1:04:09It won't...take away what we've had,
1:04:09 > 1:04:12it will be there still
1:04:12 > 1:04:15and I think I'm so glad I met him.
1:04:48 > 1:04:51I said goodbye to him at the party.
1:04:51 > 1:04:55He was lying down, tired, in the room
1:04:55 > 1:04:59and when he came to say goodbye to me, we had a good cry.
1:04:59 > 1:05:02And Elizabeth said, "Well, he didn't want to cry
1:05:02 > 1:05:05"when he was saying goodbye to us."
1:05:05 > 1:05:09He wanted to keep his act going all the time, didn't he?
1:05:10 > 1:05:12So, we both cried.
1:05:14 > 1:05:16Elizabeth said you could understand
1:05:16 > 1:05:19why he didn't invite me to Switzerland.
1:05:19 > 1:05:21I haven't been on a plane for a long time
1:05:21 > 1:05:23and my balance isn't all that good.
1:05:23 > 1:05:26But I was quite looking forward to going.
1:05:26 > 1:05:30I thought, "It was MY son, I had him, and..."
1:05:32 > 1:05:37I keep thinking, "Well, I can't get another son, can I?"
1:05:58 > 1:06:04'Hello, Five Musketeers. You can now print off your boarding passes.
1:06:05 > 1:06:11'Passengers - Debbie, Mike, Elizabeth, Dr Sandberg and Will.'
1:06:13 > 1:06:15- TANNOY:- 'Thank you for waiting, at this time,
1:06:15 > 1:06:17'will all remaining customers please board now...'
1:06:21 > 1:06:24Suicide in this country is not in offence.
1:06:26 > 1:06:29The law is very clear about what is the offence,
1:06:29 > 1:06:33and the offence is assisting or encouraging
1:06:33 > 1:06:35somebody to commit suicide.
1:06:35 > 1:06:38If you take somebody to Dignitas, for example,
1:06:38 > 1:06:40you arrange the flights, you put them on the plane,
1:06:40 > 1:06:43you take them there, that's the sort of assistance
1:06:43 > 1:06:45that could be an offence under the act.
1:06:47 > 1:06:49Maximum penalty is up to 14 years.
1:06:51 > 1:06:55But it's a matter of each individual case and circumstance.
1:06:57 > 1:07:01We'll take into account the clear and express intention, if there is,
1:07:01 > 1:07:06of the individual, the compassionate nature of the people who assisted.
1:07:06 > 1:07:09We will weigh up and decide
1:07:09 > 1:07:12whether or not that means we should prosecute or not.
1:08:01 > 1:08:02There's a handle just here.
1:08:27 > 1:08:30The person only knows the last evening
1:08:30 > 1:08:32if it is definitely accepted.
1:08:34 > 1:08:37- Hello, Mrs Binner? - Hello, very nice to meet you.
1:08:37 > 1:08:40- Nice to meet you. - Come in.
1:08:40 > 1:08:44'Simon must convince the second doctor, also.'
1:08:45 > 1:08:48Hello. Hello, Mr Binner.
1:08:48 > 1:08:52I'm a GP working with Erika.
1:08:52 > 1:08:53OK.
1:09:03 > 1:09:05There is no fear for dying.
1:09:09 > 1:09:12- In the UK, he tried to end his own life.- Uh-huh.
1:09:12 > 1:09:17So, we didn't really realise until that point how desperate he was.
1:09:17 > 1:09:19I believe that.
1:09:19 > 1:09:21That was so horrifying.
1:09:21 > 1:09:26You know what will happen tomorrow, what's going on?
1:09:26 > 1:09:31Erika explained everything, how it works, also with the infusion.
1:09:31 > 1:09:34- Yes, so, he will feel nothing?- No.
1:09:34 > 1:09:37- Just like going to sleep with an anaesthetic?- Yes.
1:09:37 > 1:09:41But you know that when you let this thing run,
1:09:41 > 1:09:45that you go to die, not to sleep.
1:09:46 > 1:09:49And you must be clear in mind that you are.
1:09:50 > 1:09:55You don't make me the impression of depression.
1:09:55 > 1:09:56No.
1:09:56 > 1:09:58And it doesn't look...
1:09:58 > 1:10:00You were deciding yourself.
1:10:00 > 1:10:04So, it's your decision and not from outside.
1:10:04 > 1:10:07There are important things I have to write down for legal reasons.
1:10:07 > 1:10:10- You have to assess, yes. - The assessment.
1:10:10 > 1:10:11So...
1:10:13 > 1:10:16..can I do something for you, otherwise,
1:10:16 > 1:10:18than to go and write my report?
1:10:20 > 1:10:22For me, it's OK.
1:10:45 > 1:10:49It hasn't been a laugh, it's been a belly laugh.
1:10:49 > 1:10:51- Laugh out loud.- Yes.
1:10:51 > 1:10:53You always make people laugh,
1:10:53 > 1:10:57people like Auntie Margaret, and Simon would start.
1:10:57 > 1:11:00We'd sit at a table like this, I didn't need to say anything,
1:11:00 > 1:11:04Sarah didn't need to say anything, cos the floor show is over here.
1:11:04 > 1:11:06LAUGHTER
1:11:08 > 1:11:10You've always been such a lovely brother.
1:11:20 > 1:11:22Thank you, Binns.
1:11:25 > 1:11:27- Top bloke.- Top banana.
1:11:50 > 1:11:56Simon will take off from his hotel with his family and friends.
1:11:56 > 1:11:59He will come to the place where we do the assisted dying
1:11:59 > 1:12:01in the city of Basel.
1:12:01 > 1:12:05And he will have to fill in some forms
1:12:05 > 1:12:08because the authority of Basel want him to sign,
1:12:08 > 1:12:12the day that he is dying, that he really has been
1:12:12 > 1:12:16thinking about it well again, slept over it another night.
1:12:16 > 1:12:22I want the family to be there to show acceptance,
1:12:22 > 1:12:25to show understanding what Simon wants to do,
1:12:25 > 1:12:28and then Simon has to do it
1:12:28 > 1:12:31at the moment that he wants to do it.
1:12:31 > 1:12:34And he has the possibility to say no and go back home
1:12:34 > 1:12:36until the very last moment.
1:12:36 > 1:12:40Even when the medicine is in the bag already
1:12:40 > 1:12:43and the perfusion is closed,
1:12:43 > 1:12:46and he, all of a sudden, is afraid of opening it,
1:12:46 > 1:12:50no problem, nobody's angry, he could go back home any time.
1:13:31 > 1:13:32We hang this up.
1:13:41 > 1:13:46We have to prove to the authorities that this person has opened the drip
1:13:46 > 1:13:51himself or herself, and you can only prove that by doing a little film.
1:14:01 > 1:14:05Yeah? OK, so we do the questions now.
1:14:05 > 1:14:10I know that you cannot speak because of your motor neurone disease.
1:14:10 > 1:14:13This is why I will ask the questions
1:14:13 > 1:14:18in a manner that you can just show with your head yes or no.
1:14:19 > 1:14:23Is it right that your name is Simon Binner?
1:14:24 > 1:14:26That is right.
1:14:26 > 1:14:32Is it right that you have been born on 2nd November, 1957?
1:14:32 > 1:14:33Yes.
1:14:34 > 1:14:39And you have written that you've come here to lifecircle
1:14:39 > 1:14:44to end your life because you have this very bad motor neurone disease,
1:14:44 > 1:14:48very progressed, is that right?
1:14:49 > 1:14:54Yes. I have put the perfusion into your brain.
1:14:54 > 1:14:58There is a medication in the perfusion now.
1:14:58 > 1:15:02And I have told you that you will die if you open it.
1:15:02 > 1:15:06Do you know that you will die if you open this perfusion?
1:15:06 > 1:15:08Yes, yes.
1:15:08 > 1:15:11So, Simon, it is now...
1:15:11 > 1:15:13What time is it?
1:15:13 > 1:15:169.38.
1:15:17 > 1:15:22If you would like to die, you are allowed to open the perfusion now.
1:15:33 > 1:15:36'Hi, Debbie. It's Simon here.
1:15:37 > 1:15:40'I've loved you very, very much, Debbie.
1:15:41 > 1:15:44'I haven't deserved you, or Hannah or Zoe.
1:15:46 > 1:15:48'Such loving and caring young ladies.
1:15:48 > 1:15:52'And I've been such a grumpy Gruffalo for much of the time.
1:15:54 > 1:15:55'But I really love you, Debbie.
1:15:57 > 1:16:00'We've had such a fun and laughter-filled marriage.
1:16:00 > 1:16:03'We were really blessed to have found one another.
1:16:05 > 1:16:08'The one blessing of a slow decline is that we've had time
1:16:08 > 1:16:11'to speak about things over ten long months,
1:16:11 > 1:16:13'not like losing me in a car smash.
1:16:14 > 1:16:18'We've really said everything that needs to be said.
1:16:19 > 1:16:22'You've been a truly fantastic wife to me, Debbie.
1:16:23 > 1:16:27'And I know that you've loved me and I've loved you.'
1:16:28 > 1:16:31Anyway, time and tide wait for no man.
1:16:31 > 1:16:33I love you very much, Debbie.
1:16:35 > 1:16:36Goodbye.
1:18:18 > 1:18:21BIRDS CAW
1:18:39 > 1:18:45I remember Simon dying and I know he played a tape,
1:18:45 > 1:18:47but I don't remember the tape.
1:18:50 > 1:18:54I remember the tenderness I felt towards him.
1:18:54 > 1:18:56I got him ready in the morning.
1:18:56 > 1:18:58He was still really, really keen
1:18:58 > 1:19:01that his cuff links were put on properly
1:19:01 > 1:19:04and that his shoes were done up properly
1:19:04 > 1:19:05and I found that very touching,
1:19:05 > 1:19:09and it's something I really loved about him, that he was so smart
1:19:09 > 1:19:12and I vaguely remember being on a plane...
1:19:14 > 1:19:18I remember Erika and that's about it.
1:19:18 > 1:19:20Yeah, big chunks just kind of...
1:19:20 > 1:19:23cos we were just trying to get through it for him.
1:19:26 > 1:19:28For him, I think he went to Switzerland
1:19:28 > 1:19:31at exactly the right time for him.
1:19:32 > 1:19:37But, for us, what we had to go through, to end his life,
1:19:37 > 1:19:40it was extraordinarily difficult.
1:19:40 > 1:19:43And I feel I'm still in shock and trauma.
1:19:44 > 1:19:47Somebody's there one minute and then not the next.
1:19:49 > 1:19:51And I can't...
1:19:51 > 1:19:54I haven't got the words to express about how big a deal it is.
1:19:56 > 1:19:58I'm angry,
1:19:58 > 1:20:00I'm missing him,
1:20:00 > 1:20:02I yearn for him.
1:20:03 > 1:20:08I'm guilty that somehow I couldn't make his life nice enough,
1:20:08 > 1:20:11you know, and maybe if I'd worked harder and made it easier,
1:20:11 > 1:20:15and hadn't snapped at him that time, or got this when he wanted,
1:20:15 > 1:20:17maybe he wouldn't have wanted to go,
1:20:17 > 1:20:19and I don't think any of that's logical,
1:20:19 > 1:20:23but I think it leaves you with those kind of feelings.
1:20:23 > 1:20:24"Did I do enough?"
1:20:24 > 1:20:28Maybe that's what I'm struggling with - did I do enough?
1:20:28 > 1:20:33Was it...? Did I do enough to make his life worthwhile
1:20:33 > 1:20:38when he had done so much for me, really, over the years,
1:20:38 > 1:20:42and helped me look after my daughter and all those kind of things.
1:20:42 > 1:20:46Maybe, that's the difficulty of what I'm struggling with.
1:21:03 > 1:21:04"I cannot begin to feel..."
1:21:04 > 1:21:08A lot of people said to me, "I think you're very brave."
1:21:08 > 1:21:10Well, I'm not very brave,
1:21:10 > 1:21:15I don't have...the option of being brave or not.
1:21:15 > 1:21:17Then some people say he is brave.
1:21:17 > 1:21:20And Elizabeth and I were discussing this
1:21:20 > 1:21:22and saying, "Yes, he was brave."
1:21:22 > 1:21:24But we have to remember
1:21:24 > 1:21:28that these other people were brave that have stuck it out, as well.
1:21:32 > 1:21:36You see, I'm mourning him as my baby boy.
1:21:39 > 1:21:41He wrote me something on a piece of paper.
1:21:50 > 1:21:54"It's sad, but it's for the best. Thank you for being my mum."
1:22:16 > 1:22:21The man I came to know was, as you will also remember him,
1:22:21 > 1:22:23a force of nature.
1:22:23 > 1:22:26Incisive, articulate,
1:22:26 > 1:22:29bursting with energy.
1:22:29 > 1:22:33He never wallowed in self-pity, he was absolutely fantastic to the end.
1:22:33 > 1:22:34He was a magnificent man.
1:22:34 > 1:22:37He was magnificent to the very end.
1:22:37 > 1:22:39And he wrote to me just before he died,
1:22:39 > 1:22:42warning me that I would never find another friend like him.
1:22:42 > 1:22:45- VOICE BREAKING:- I think we can say, without fear of contradiction,
1:22:45 > 1:22:48that none of us will ever know anyone like him.
1:22:48 > 1:22:51Si Binner, as he will always be known to me,
1:22:51 > 1:22:54was a guy from a slightly different planet.
1:22:54 > 1:22:56CHUCKLING
1:22:56 > 1:22:59I'm missing the daft bugger. A friend indeed.
1:23:03 > 1:23:06MUSIC: Don't Know Why (You Stay) By The Essex Green
1:23:12 > 1:23:16# If your silver wing is stuck on horizons
1:23:16 > 1:23:18# Catch it when it goes
1:23:18 > 1:23:22# Or they'll take a piece and pull back the curtains
1:23:22 > 1:23:25# And there's nothing left but your clothes
1:23:25 > 1:23:27# I don't know why... #
1:23:27 > 1:23:28Up.
1:23:28 > 1:23:31# I don't know why I don't know why you stay
1:23:31 > 1:23:35# No, I don't know why I don't know why
1:23:35 > 1:23:38# I don't know why you stay
1:23:38 > 1:23:40# No... #
1:23:51 > 1:23:53If you'd like to have your say
1:23:53 > 1:23:56about some of the issues around assisted suicide,
1:23:56 > 1:23:58visit the Open University's online discussion hub.
1:23:58 > 1:24:02Go to...
1:24:02 > 1:24:05and follow the links to the Open University.