0:00:02 > 0:00:05'I'm Keith Dube, also known as Mr Exposed.
0:00:05 > 0:00:08'I'm a blogger with a massive following on social media
0:00:08 > 0:00:10'and I host the breakfast show
0:00:10 > 0:00:12'on one of London's newest radio stations.
0:00:12 > 0:00:15Please call in today, we want to hear your experiences.
0:00:15 > 0:00:19'But behind the microphone, I used to have a very big secret.'
0:00:19 > 0:00:22I was diagnosed with depression a few years ago.
0:00:22 > 0:00:24It was a hollow feeling of worthless a lot of the times
0:00:24 > 0:00:27and there's times when you're supposed be happy,
0:00:27 > 0:00:29but you can't feel happy, no matter what's going on around you.
0:00:29 > 0:00:32That's when I realised, "Something's really wrong here."
0:00:32 > 0:00:35It was a horrible experience, very confusing,
0:00:35 > 0:00:38cos black people don't really do mental illness.
0:00:38 > 0:00:40It's not something you grow up hearing a lot about.
0:00:40 > 0:00:42Why did I get depressed?
0:00:42 > 0:00:45When I was younger, I was obsessed with money and status
0:00:45 > 0:00:48and I broke the rules to get it.
0:00:48 > 0:00:50But over time, that lifestyle impacted
0:00:50 > 0:00:52more and more on my state of mind.
0:00:53 > 0:00:58My lowest point was when I was continually waking up thinking,
0:00:58 > 0:01:00"I don't want to live any more."
0:01:01 > 0:01:03For over two years,
0:01:03 > 0:01:06I didn't utter a single word about my depression to anyone.
0:01:06 > 0:01:10I was too ashamed, but then I decided to out myself.
0:01:11 > 0:01:14I wrote a blog, closed my laptop and I went to sleep,
0:01:14 > 0:01:17So I've woken up a couple of hours later and yeah,
0:01:17 > 0:01:19I had a crazy amount of messages from people.
0:01:19 > 0:01:21All the messages were positive
0:01:21 > 0:01:24and I also did realise that there were a lot of people just like me
0:01:24 > 0:01:26that were going through the exact same things I was.
0:01:28 > 0:01:30After that response,
0:01:30 > 0:01:32I started to look into black mental health
0:01:32 > 0:01:33and what I found shocked me.
0:01:33 > 0:01:36I'm 17 times more likely to be diagnosed
0:01:36 > 0:01:40with a serious mental health issue. That's scary.
0:01:40 > 0:01:44I'm also six times more likely than a white man to be an inpatient
0:01:44 > 0:01:47or sectioned to a mental health hospital.
0:01:47 > 0:01:49I want to find out what's going on,
0:01:49 > 0:01:52why black people are more likely to end up with mental illness.
0:01:52 > 0:01:54Why is it more prevalent in our community?
0:01:54 > 0:01:56What is the cause and what can we do about it?
0:01:56 > 0:01:58What can we do to stop it?
0:02:03 > 0:02:05Even though I struggled with my depression for years,
0:02:05 > 0:02:07I was lucky that I was never so unwell
0:02:07 > 0:02:10that I had to be admitted into a mental health unit.
0:02:12 > 0:02:15But every year, thousands of black people do end up here and many
0:02:15 > 0:02:19of them are detained against their will under the Mental Health Act.
0:02:26 > 0:02:29I want to find out why and how this is happening.
0:02:30 > 0:02:33What kind of conditions do most people come in here with?
0:02:33 > 0:02:36Schizophrenia, depression, anxiety.
0:02:36 > 0:02:39Psychotic depression, bipolar affective disorder.
0:02:39 > 0:02:43How does your assessment process work? How do you decide?
0:02:43 > 0:02:47We have two assessment rooms. You can see it's just soft chairs.
0:02:47 > 0:02:50The patient normally stays here with their relatives or the police.
0:02:50 > 0:02:52Sometimes we need the police to stay.
0:02:52 > 0:02:54They need to search the patient and their bag
0:02:54 > 0:02:56in case they have any sharps,
0:02:56 > 0:02:58especially if they are harming themselves.
0:02:58 > 0:02:59We don't want them to harm themself.
0:02:59 > 0:03:03A lot of black patients kind of feel like they're treated differently
0:03:03 > 0:03:05from, I guess, their white counterparts.
0:03:05 > 0:03:06Is there any truth to that?
0:03:06 > 0:03:09It will happen, it happens,
0:03:09 > 0:03:13but I wouldn't say on the whole that that is what the staff do.
0:03:13 > 0:03:15As a black woman, would you be worried
0:03:15 > 0:03:18about coming through the mental health system?
0:03:18 > 0:03:20Maybe if I didn't have any knowledge of mental health,
0:03:20 > 0:03:23I probably would be worried.
0:03:23 > 0:03:25I would be worried about going anywhere actually
0:03:25 > 0:03:27because I have so many things against me -
0:03:27 > 0:03:30being black, being a woman.
0:03:34 > 0:03:39'To find out just how it feels to be sectioned, I'm meeting Kemeta.
0:03:39 > 0:03:41'She's been in and out of hospital since 2010
0:03:41 > 0:03:43'and suffers from bipolar disorder,
0:03:43 > 0:03:47'a condition where your moods can swing from one extreme to another.'
0:03:48 > 0:03:51So, how did you find yourself here?
0:03:51 > 0:03:56My first admission was back in 2010 at the birth of my son.
0:03:56 > 0:04:00So, after I gave birth... It was quite a difficult birth.
0:04:00 > 0:04:02I lost two litres of blood or something
0:04:02 > 0:04:05so eventually I went home, tried to relax,
0:04:05 > 0:04:07but I still wasn't fully recovered.
0:04:07 > 0:04:09So, my mum thought something was wrong.
0:04:09 > 0:04:13I then went to a GP and then when I was at the GP,
0:04:13 > 0:04:17apparently no-one from the early intervention team was available,
0:04:17 > 0:04:19so they called the police.
0:04:19 > 0:04:24So five policemen came into the GP and held me down,
0:04:24 > 0:04:27physically held me down to the floor, because no woman
0:04:27 > 0:04:30in their right mind is going to give up their six-month-old.
0:04:30 > 0:04:33Wow. So how did that make you feel at the time?
0:04:33 > 0:04:35Words cannot describe the pain.
0:04:35 > 0:04:37Even now, I still have a lot of pain.
0:04:37 > 0:04:39What's your experience been like since then?
0:04:39 > 0:04:42How many times have you been in hospital?
0:04:42 > 0:04:44About three to four times I've been in hospital.
0:04:44 > 0:04:48I feel it's, like, taken a chunk of my life away
0:04:48 > 0:04:52and it's just made me so frustrated at times. Yeah.
0:04:52 > 0:04:55Now I try to do too much and then if I do too much,
0:04:55 > 0:04:58then I can become unwell again and then be back in hospital.
0:04:58 > 0:05:01You know, cos with me, I get manic episodes.
0:05:01 > 0:05:03I don't get depressed, I just get manic.
0:05:03 > 0:05:06I know it's something that's not very easy.
0:05:06 > 0:05:08- Thank you very much.- Thank you.
0:05:08 > 0:05:11'My heart goes out to Kemeta for what she's been through,
0:05:11 > 0:05:14'but I've no idea if she'd have been treated any differently
0:05:14 > 0:05:15'if she was white.
0:05:15 > 0:05:19'How normal an experience is this for black people getting sectioned?
0:05:21 > 0:05:23'Twice a week I host a show on internet radio
0:05:23 > 0:05:25'and I want to ask my listeners what they think.'
0:05:26 > 0:05:29We'll be talking about black mental health,
0:05:29 > 0:05:32cos I think it's something that's very, very, very slept on.
0:05:32 > 0:05:34We've got an amazing guest coming on the show today.
0:05:34 > 0:05:37He's a psychologist, I'll be talking to him,
0:05:37 > 0:05:40seeing what he's seen in his 25 years
0:05:40 > 0:05:42in the mental health industries.
0:05:42 > 0:05:43- Good morning, Malcolm.- Good morning.
0:05:43 > 0:05:46Tell us a little bit about you and what you do.
0:05:46 > 0:05:49At the moment, I manage mental health services.
0:05:49 > 0:05:55We look after around 450 people with severe and enduring mental illness.
0:05:55 > 0:05:57We've got a caller on the line.
0:05:57 > 0:06:00- Good morning, sir.- I'm actually a carer for my mum.
0:06:00 > 0:06:03Mum has been sectioned quite a few times.
0:06:03 > 0:06:05It's always been something where the sectioning is,
0:06:05 > 0:06:07in my opinion, very unreasonable.
0:06:07 > 0:06:11Were you given support to understand what was going on for your mum?
0:06:11 > 0:06:13Not really. I don't know.
0:06:13 > 0:06:17The way the sectioning works, if someone reports someone in,
0:06:17 > 0:06:19they'll section first and explain later.
0:06:19 > 0:06:22That's not how the act is supposed to work.
0:06:22 > 0:06:24We must work with families.
0:06:24 > 0:06:26You're the people who are closest,
0:06:26 > 0:06:28you're the people who have the most information.
0:06:28 > 0:06:30I would encourage you to not accept that,
0:06:30 > 0:06:32demand that the family are more involved.
0:06:32 > 0:06:34That's not something that's easy to talk about.
0:06:34 > 0:06:37- We're very, very grateful for your input.- Thank you.- Take care.
0:06:37 > 0:06:43Me and you, as black men, we're 17 times more likely to be diagnosed
0:06:43 > 0:06:45with a serious mental condition.
0:06:45 > 0:06:49When I look at the picture across Britain, it's poor, man,
0:06:49 > 0:06:52it's pretty bad. You're much more likely to be diagnosed as suffering
0:06:52 > 0:06:56from schizophrenia, you're much less likely
0:06:56 > 0:06:58to get any talking treatment,
0:06:58 > 0:07:01much more likely to be held under compulsion of the Mental Health Act.
0:07:01 > 0:07:04You're going to be sectioned, you're going to be locked up,
0:07:04 > 0:07:07you'll get higher doses of medication, it's pretty rough.
0:07:07 > 0:07:10Why is it that black people are being diagnosed,
0:07:10 > 0:07:13why are we being put in that box?
0:07:13 > 0:07:14Black people when they go for help
0:07:14 > 0:07:16are generally seen as more dangerous.
0:07:17 > 0:07:20So they're more likely to get a more severe diagnosis.
0:07:22 > 0:07:25It's shocking to hear someone who works in mental health
0:07:25 > 0:07:27say we're seen as more dangerous,
0:07:27 > 0:07:29and it goes a long way to explaining the stats.
0:07:32 > 0:07:34But I do feel that sometimes as a community,
0:07:34 > 0:07:37we're too quick to blame everything on racism.
0:07:38 > 0:07:41Instead, do we need to look at our own behaviour?
0:07:41 > 0:07:44Why is there such a stigma around mental health?
0:07:52 > 0:07:54I've tweeted my followers to find out
0:07:54 > 0:07:56what kind of experiences they've had.
0:07:57 > 0:08:01"I lost my dad, a middle-aged black Caribbean man.
0:08:01 > 0:08:03"He committed suicide aged 39.
0:08:03 > 0:08:05"I myself, as a result, have struggled
0:08:05 > 0:08:09"with my own mental health quite severely." We've got a message here.
0:08:09 > 0:08:12"I'm happy to discuss my struggle with mental health.
0:08:12 > 0:08:14"I don't think people talk about it enough,
0:08:14 > 0:08:16"so I'm happy to help lift the stigma."
0:08:16 > 0:08:20I didn't think this many people would be up to talk about it.
0:08:20 > 0:08:24It definitely proved me wrong on that one.
0:08:26 > 0:08:28One message in particular has caught my eye.
0:08:28 > 0:08:32It's from a 20-year-old uni student from Surrey called Simone.
0:08:32 > 0:08:35I'm going to read a little bit of my exchange with Simone to you guys.
0:08:36 > 0:08:40"Even though I wasn't diagnosed by a doctor, I knew I was depressed.
0:08:40 > 0:08:42"I've been in and out of it for about five years now.
0:08:42 > 0:08:45"I think the mentality towards mental health like depression
0:08:45 > 0:08:47"and anxiety that some black people currently have
0:08:47 > 0:08:49"may have been passed down by their parents.
0:08:49 > 0:08:53"Usually it should be our parents that we can turn to, to express how
0:08:53 > 0:08:55"we feel, but if they have a negative thought towards this,
0:08:55 > 0:08:58"then who else can we turn to?" That's the same as me.
0:08:58 > 0:09:00When I was going through it, I didn't want anyone to know.
0:09:00 > 0:09:04I was embarrassed by it, but in my case I prejudged the situation
0:09:04 > 0:09:07and I didn't really step forward and speak to my parents
0:09:07 > 0:09:08and when I initially did
0:09:08 > 0:09:11and actually spoke to my dad, his response was not what I expected.
0:09:11 > 0:09:16For me it was like, wow, "We could have had this conversation many years ago
0:09:16 > 0:09:19"and things could have turned out different," but because I assumed
0:09:19 > 0:09:21he'd be a certain way about it, I kept it all to myself.
0:09:21 > 0:09:25- Hey, Simone.- Hey! - We finally get to meet.
0:09:25 > 0:09:27How are you doing?
0:09:27 > 0:09:28I'm good. How are you?
0:09:28 > 0:09:29I'm not too bad.
0:09:30 > 0:09:32Wow, you have a wonderful little room.
0:09:32 > 0:09:34I try to make it as holy as possible.
0:09:34 > 0:09:38I've got my Bible verses and prayers.
0:09:38 > 0:09:39You're very religious.
0:09:39 > 0:09:44- Yeah.- How do you fit religion into your battle with depression?
0:09:44 > 0:09:47- There were times when I felt like I was alone...- Yeah.
0:09:47 > 0:09:50..and I just turned to God.
0:09:50 > 0:09:54When did you first kind of feel like something wasn't right?
0:09:54 > 0:09:56I think one time in year ten,
0:09:56 > 0:09:59there was a week where I just started having breakdowns.
0:09:59 > 0:10:01There was one time when I just started crying
0:10:01 > 0:10:03randomly during break time.
0:10:03 > 0:10:04I didn't even know why I was crying.
0:10:04 > 0:10:06I just kept on crying.
0:10:06 > 0:10:07I just felt so low.
0:10:07 > 0:10:09I realised there was something wrong.
0:10:09 > 0:10:11At any point did you speak to your parents?
0:10:11 > 0:10:13Uh-uh.
0:10:13 > 0:10:16Why did you feel that you couldn't speak to your parents?
0:10:16 > 0:10:19I felt that if I was to tell my parents,
0:10:19 > 0:10:22"Hey, I'm going through X, Y, Z,"
0:10:22 > 0:10:25I knew that the first reaction would be,
0:10:25 > 0:10:28"God forbid, no, I rebuke this," and...
0:10:29 > 0:10:31..they would kind of brush over it
0:10:31 > 0:10:34and not find out the root of the problem.
0:10:34 > 0:10:38Do you feel like there's a stigma surrounding mental health?
0:10:38 > 0:10:43With parents, especially African parents, erm...
0:10:44 > 0:10:47..they don't have enough knowledge about it,
0:10:47 > 0:10:50especially the ones that were born and raised in Africa.
0:10:50 > 0:10:52My parents were born and raised in Congo.
0:10:52 > 0:10:56Speaking to a professional, essentially,
0:10:56 > 0:10:59I got to speak to someone that was impartial.
0:10:59 > 0:11:02Could you say you're scared of speaking to the doctors?
0:11:02 > 0:11:04Is there a kind of fear?
0:11:04 > 0:11:05It's the fear of...
0:11:08 > 0:11:10..just being so exposed to someone
0:11:10 > 0:11:15- and telling them exactly what I'm going through, it's scary.- Yeah.
0:11:15 > 0:11:19- It's that fear of knowing that I could have something.- Yeah.
0:11:19 > 0:11:24At this point, do you feel like you're ready to see a doctor?
0:11:24 > 0:11:29I think I'm ready to see a doctor and finally get all checked out.
0:11:29 > 0:11:32OK. Would you be comfortable with me coming along?
0:11:32 > 0:11:35Yeah, that would be great. Thank you.
0:11:39 > 0:11:42I've heard from Kemeta, the woman I met at the hospital.
0:11:44 > 0:11:46She's been discharged from the unit,
0:11:46 > 0:11:49but instead has ended up in temporary accommodation.
0:11:50 > 0:11:51Hi, Kemeta.
0:11:51 > 0:11:53- Come in.- How are you doing?
0:11:53 > 0:11:54I'm fine, thank you.
0:11:54 > 0:11:57'I want to find out why she's in a B&B above a shop
0:11:57 > 0:12:00'and not being cared for by her family at home.'
0:12:00 > 0:12:02I'll be here for one week.
0:12:04 > 0:12:06- A roof over my head, so I'm quite happy.- It's a really nice place.
0:12:06 > 0:12:07Yeah, I think it's nice.
0:12:07 > 0:12:10The discharge coordinator kindly pushed for my case
0:12:10 > 0:12:13for me to have somewhere to stay so that I could be out of hospital
0:12:13 > 0:12:15because it just wasn't the right environment
0:12:15 > 0:12:18and I needed to move on, and I had nowhere else to go.
0:12:18 > 0:12:22What kind of things did you do in your spare time in hospital?
0:12:22 > 0:12:25I just did some reading. I like modern architecture
0:12:25 > 0:12:29and also I like Bauhaus and I like design as well.
0:12:29 > 0:12:32Those are the kind of books that I read, a bit of self-help.
0:12:32 > 0:12:35Now you're out of the hospital, how does that feel?
0:12:35 > 0:12:39I'm very happy that I'm out of hospital, I feel relieved,
0:12:39 > 0:12:41I feel like I'm in my own skin.
0:12:41 > 0:12:45So being unwell, how has that affected your family life?
0:12:45 > 0:12:50My dad has been very understanding and very supportive, practically,
0:12:50 > 0:12:54but my mum, we have had a relationship breakdown, yes.
0:12:54 > 0:12:56I still love my mum, I still respect my mum,
0:12:56 > 0:13:00but I'm looking for the future to get my own flat
0:13:00 > 0:13:06and have my son living with me, as opposed to my mum caring for him.
0:13:06 > 0:13:08How does it feel to be away from your son?
0:13:08 > 0:13:11Pretty, pretty painful.
0:13:11 > 0:13:15Yeah. I mean, there were times that I couldn't sleep.
0:13:15 > 0:13:18I could just feel... It's like a stone in your stomach or your womb.
0:13:18 > 0:13:24You know, just like a weight, like a heavy weight.
0:13:24 > 0:13:26I couldn't concentrate.
0:13:26 > 0:13:29Now, I just want him for myself, like every mother would.
0:13:29 > 0:13:32A lot of people see mental illness as embarrassing.
0:13:32 > 0:13:35- A curse.- The person's dirty little secret,
0:13:35 > 0:13:37because some people see stuff like that, they think,
0:13:37 > 0:13:38"I'm not going to say anything,"
0:13:38 > 0:13:40- because of how other people treat it.- Yeah.
0:13:40 > 0:13:42Do you think that plays a big part?
0:13:42 > 0:13:45That does play a big part, actually.
0:13:45 > 0:13:47When I first was in hospital and I came back to study,
0:13:47 > 0:13:49there was a Ghanaian woman. She put her hands on me
0:13:49 > 0:13:55and was praying on me as if to exorcise a demon from me.
0:13:55 > 0:13:58This is apparently an educated woman,
0:13:58 > 0:14:00she had a master's from the UK.
0:14:00 > 0:14:02This is a Ghanaian black woman,
0:14:02 > 0:14:05so, um, I can imagine anyone in that position,
0:14:05 > 0:14:06you'd probably never want to tell
0:14:06 > 0:14:09that you had any mental health difficulty.
0:14:09 > 0:14:12'It's good to see her well and happy.
0:14:12 > 0:14:15'From talking to her, you can tell that the situation'
0:14:15 > 0:14:17with her family is kind of complex,
0:14:17 > 0:14:21but I don't personally think that's a great place for someone
0:14:21 > 0:14:25going through mental health issues - to be in a B&B by themselves.
0:14:25 > 0:14:28I think she should be with her family.
0:14:28 > 0:14:31Both Kemeta and Simone had talked to me about religion
0:14:31 > 0:14:35and over the years I've heard plenty of stories of pastors that
0:14:35 > 0:14:39believed in prayer and even exorcism as a cure for mental health.
0:14:39 > 0:14:40What effect is the church having?
0:14:48 > 0:14:52In north London, I'm meeting the leader of an evangelical church
0:14:52 > 0:14:55who also has a day job as a mental health professional.
0:14:55 > 0:14:58Peace into your life!
0:14:58 > 0:15:03As a pastor and as a nurse, how does that work out for you?
0:15:03 > 0:15:06Cos I guess it's conflicting theories, essentially.
0:15:25 > 0:15:28So you're following the Bible correctly, to a T,
0:15:28 > 0:15:30could that keep me from ever experiencing
0:15:30 > 0:15:32any mental health issues?
0:16:03 > 0:16:05So, you know, I come forward to you, pastor,
0:16:05 > 0:16:08and I tell you that I've been hearing voices
0:16:08 > 0:16:10and I'm not sure what's wrong with me.
0:16:10 > 0:16:11Where do we go from there?
0:16:20 > 0:16:23So if I'm hearing, I guess, the not so good voices?
0:16:46 > 0:16:48A lot of people go to pastors to speak to them when they need help
0:16:48 > 0:16:53and there's many pastors that encourage people only to pray
0:16:53 > 0:16:55and they keep them away from seeking medical help.
0:16:55 > 0:16:57What are your views on that?
0:17:19 > 0:17:22I was glad to hear that the pastor draws a line between preaching
0:17:22 > 0:17:25and his day job in the NHS.
0:17:25 > 0:17:27But if some churches are encouraging unwell people
0:17:27 > 0:17:28to stay away from doctors,
0:17:28 > 0:17:32that has to be a factor in the black mental health crisis.
0:17:32 > 0:17:35If people are warned against getting an early diagnosis and treatment,
0:17:35 > 0:17:37their problems will only become more severe.
0:17:40 > 0:17:44For the past five years, student Simone has been using prayer
0:17:44 > 0:17:46to deal with her mental health issues.
0:17:47 > 0:17:49- Hey, Simone.- Hey, how are you?
0:17:49 > 0:17:52- I'm not too bad. How are you doing? - I'm good, thank you.
0:17:52 > 0:17:55'But now she's visiting a GP to ask for help.'
0:17:56 > 0:17:57How are you feeling about today?
0:17:57 > 0:18:00I feel like now,
0:18:00 > 0:18:02I'll be able to actually...
0:18:03 > 0:18:06..speak to someone and know that somebody's actually listening to me.
0:18:10 > 0:18:13- Hi.- Hi, Simone. My name's Martin, lovely to meet you.
0:18:13 > 0:18:14Nice to meet you, too.
0:18:14 > 0:18:17- Have a seat, please. - Nice to meet you. I'm Keith.
0:18:17 > 0:18:20- I'll be sitting in with Simone. - Have a seat.
0:18:20 > 0:18:23I just thought I'd like to hear it in your own words, if you could,
0:18:23 > 0:18:25so just take your time. We've got plenty of time.
0:18:25 > 0:18:28It started off in, like, secondary school times.
0:18:28 > 0:18:31My education, I wasn't really doing well.
0:18:31 > 0:18:36I wasn't really receiving any positive energy from anyone.
0:18:36 > 0:18:41When I moved to university, I was having more breakdowns.
0:18:41 > 0:18:43I basically just broke down,
0:18:43 > 0:18:46I was like, "I don't like how I'm growing up too fast."
0:18:46 > 0:18:48You've used the phrase "breakdowns".
0:18:50 > 0:18:51Yeah.
0:18:51 > 0:18:52What does that mean to you?
0:18:52 > 0:18:56I can feel myself breaking down in my head, feeling like...
0:18:58 > 0:18:59..I'm not worth it.
0:19:01 > 0:19:05My mind is basically attacking my heart and everything
0:19:05 > 0:19:07and basically having a battle with myself.
0:19:07 > 0:19:10And then I basically just give up and then I'm just like...
0:19:10 > 0:19:13I don't know what to do with myself, but the battle's still going on.
0:19:13 > 0:19:15What about family at the time?
0:19:15 > 0:19:21I didn't really tell them how I felt, because my parents,
0:19:21 > 0:19:24I didn't feel like they would understand either, so...
0:19:24 > 0:19:25I just left it.
0:19:25 > 0:19:28It can be incredibly normal,
0:19:28 > 0:19:30and I say that wholeheartedly, to have...
0:19:32 > 0:19:34..quite negative thoughts.
0:19:34 > 0:19:38By that, I mean thoughts of doing something to harm yourself...
0:19:38 > 0:19:39Mm-hm.
0:19:39 > 0:19:42..even thoughts of ending your own life.
0:19:42 > 0:19:45The question is, have you had those types of thoughts
0:19:45 > 0:19:48over the last couple of weeks?
0:19:48 > 0:19:50- Not at all?- Mm-mm.- OK.
0:19:50 > 0:19:52That was a pretty decisive answer.
0:19:52 > 0:19:53OK.
0:19:53 > 0:20:00There's a very big, big crossover between depression and anxiety.
0:20:02 > 0:20:04It sounds to me like you do have...
0:20:06 > 0:20:08..various things that trigger off...
0:20:09 > 0:20:12..prolonged episodes of anxiety.
0:20:12 > 0:20:16But if there is an element of depression, it's mild, I would say.
0:20:16 > 0:20:18A perfect starting point would be
0:20:18 > 0:20:21seeing a counsellor or a psychologist
0:20:21 > 0:20:25and talking to them about basically what you've spoken to me about,
0:20:25 > 0:20:27but in a lot more depth.
0:20:27 > 0:20:29What do you think about that?
0:20:29 > 0:20:32I feel like it'll be helpful.
0:20:32 > 0:20:36By sitting here today and talking to me, you've done the hardest bit.
0:20:36 > 0:20:37Thank you so much.
0:20:37 > 0:20:38It's a pleasure.
0:20:40 > 0:20:42So, what were your thoughts on, you know,
0:20:42 > 0:20:43the meeting with the doc today?
0:20:43 > 0:20:47He gave me the answers that I needed and I wanted to know.
0:20:47 > 0:20:49After what you've gone through today,
0:20:49 > 0:20:52do you feel like it would be easier to speak to your family?
0:20:52 > 0:20:54I think it's just...
0:20:54 > 0:20:57Their reaction is what I'm fearful of.
0:20:59 > 0:21:03For Simone, school was where her anxiety attacks first began.
0:21:03 > 0:21:06But for me, the trigger was very different.
0:21:06 > 0:21:11The majority of my depression was based on my lifestyle.
0:21:11 > 0:21:13I was doing a lot of things I wasn't supposed to be doing -
0:21:13 > 0:21:14I was chasing money,
0:21:14 > 0:21:17I was addicted to, you know, an unsavoury lifestyle,
0:21:17 > 0:21:18and with that kind of lifestyle
0:21:18 > 0:21:21comes an unsavoury type of people you're around.
0:21:21 > 0:21:24You're always thinking,
0:21:24 > 0:21:27"When are these people going to do something to me?"
0:21:27 > 0:21:29And, you know, living like that's not a nice way...
0:21:29 > 0:21:31It's not a nice way to live.
0:21:31 > 0:21:34You're anxious all the time, you're paranoid
0:21:34 > 0:21:37and I eventually lost all my money.
0:21:37 > 0:21:39I went through a point in time where I felt worthless.
0:21:40 > 0:21:44I didn't even see a point in living at some point, essentially.
0:21:44 > 0:21:47And that's something that I do see in a lot of people like myself.
0:21:47 > 0:21:51You know, we attach our self-worth to the wrong kind of things.
0:22:00 > 0:22:03I want to find out what we can do to support people like me,
0:22:03 > 0:22:05so I'm visiting a local mental health charity.
0:22:07 > 0:22:10Do you struggle to bring young black males in?
0:22:10 > 0:22:12Yeah, definitely. It's just the fear factor, isn't it?
0:22:12 > 0:22:15A lot of people are out in the community unsupported,
0:22:15 > 0:22:17which is half of our problem.
0:22:17 > 0:22:20Because they're the people that people see in the black community -
0:22:20 > 0:22:23unwell, shuffling around, heavily medicated
0:22:23 > 0:22:27and not making any kind of journey to wellbeing or recovery.
0:22:27 > 0:22:30So obviously why would you want to tell anybody
0:22:30 > 0:22:33if you even think that you've got mental health issues?
0:22:33 > 0:22:35Cos you're looking at the result of what we do as a society
0:22:35 > 0:22:37- when we look after people. - As you know,
0:22:37 > 0:22:40us black males think we're 17 times more likely to be diagnosed
0:22:40 > 0:22:43with a serious mental health issue.
0:22:43 > 0:22:45Why do you think that is, personally?
0:22:45 > 0:22:50We keep on putting black communities in rundown, poor, deprived areas,
0:22:50 > 0:22:52generation upon generation,
0:22:52 > 0:22:55and then expect them to do, what, better than the last generation?
0:22:55 > 0:22:57There's something about living in a ghetto
0:22:57 > 0:22:58that isn't good for us anyway.
0:22:58 > 0:23:02Long before you get to a point where you need specialist services
0:23:02 > 0:23:03or need to be sectioned, there's a journey.
0:23:03 > 0:23:06You don't wake up one day with mental health.
0:23:06 > 0:23:08So that means lots of people in your community
0:23:08 > 0:23:10saw you becoming more and more unwell,
0:23:10 > 0:23:11whether it's with your anxiety,
0:23:11 > 0:23:14with your depression or just with your thoughts,
0:23:14 > 0:23:15what's going on in your life.
0:23:15 > 0:23:18So somewhere along the line, our communities are failing us,
0:23:18 > 0:23:20not just professionals.
0:23:20 > 0:23:22Because you only get to a professional
0:23:22 > 0:23:23at the point that you're really unwell.
0:23:23 > 0:23:26So we need to step up and look after our own communities,
0:23:26 > 0:23:29and more people need to get involved in going out
0:23:29 > 0:23:31and raising awareness about mental health.
0:23:31 > 0:23:35We can mitigate against the urban situations they put us in
0:23:35 > 0:23:38if we're aware that that's not good for us.
0:23:43 > 0:23:47Lynette wants me to meet her newest recruit,
0:23:47 > 0:23:49who's going to be joining the charity as a support worker.
0:23:51 > 0:23:53- How are you doing, man?- Yeah, hi.
0:23:53 > 0:23:55- I'm Keith.- My name's Ashley.
0:23:55 > 0:23:58- Nice to meet you, man. - Yeah, yeah, nice to meet you.
0:23:58 > 0:24:00'Like me, 26-year-old Ashley
0:24:00 > 0:24:03'has personal experience of mental health problems.
0:24:03 > 0:24:06'Five years ago, he was diagnosed with psychosis,
0:24:06 > 0:24:08'a condition whose symptoms can include hallucinations
0:24:08 > 0:24:10'and paranoia.'
0:24:10 > 0:24:12So, yeah, tell me a bit about yourself
0:24:12 > 0:24:14and how you got to where you are now.
0:24:14 > 0:24:16When I was eight, I went into care.
0:24:16 > 0:24:18I stayed in that care home for, like, nearly eight years,
0:24:18 > 0:24:20but I weren't getting the love that I needed.
0:24:20 > 0:24:22I was still missing those hugs,
0:24:22 > 0:24:25all the little things that I didn't get from having my own family.
0:24:27 > 0:24:31I think that played a part on my mental state later on in life.
0:24:31 > 0:24:34When I was like 18, I went to jail for the first time.
0:24:34 > 0:24:35And then, from then,
0:24:35 > 0:24:39I went to jail, like, five or six more times, probably,
0:24:39 > 0:24:40after that.
0:24:40 > 0:24:42Then it's only when I got to...
0:24:43 > 0:24:47..21, coming out of jail, I got stabbed.
0:24:47 > 0:24:50When I was laying there, I was thinking, "Am I going to die?"
0:24:50 > 0:24:51All the things I've done.
0:24:51 > 0:24:53"Am I going to go to hell, heaven?"
0:24:53 > 0:24:55That was the breaking point,
0:24:55 > 0:24:57cos that year I was diagnosed with bipolar.
0:24:57 > 0:24:59I had my first psychotic breakdown.
0:24:59 > 0:25:00When you were going through psychosis,
0:25:00 > 0:25:02what was your story, essentially?
0:25:02 > 0:25:04What did you kind of see?
0:25:04 > 0:25:06I started thinking I'm a superhero!
0:25:06 > 0:25:09And, like, superstitious things.
0:25:09 > 0:25:11So when I go into psychosis,
0:25:11 > 0:25:14I start going down, like, demons, superheroes,
0:25:14 > 0:25:16people with power, supernatural.
0:25:16 > 0:25:18And that's where it always takes me,
0:25:18 > 0:25:21cos that's the stuff I was interested in before.
0:25:21 > 0:25:23And that's what a lot of people don't realise.
0:25:23 > 0:25:26They just think psychosis is totally random, but it goes with the person.
0:25:26 > 0:25:28So what was your first hospital experience like?
0:25:28 > 0:25:30That's probably the worst.
0:25:30 > 0:25:33It's awful because I'm put in a place that I don't know about.
0:25:33 > 0:25:35There's people ordering me about.
0:25:35 > 0:25:39From living life freely to now being told I'm locked away,
0:25:39 > 0:25:42I'm not allowed to have exercise, everything.
0:25:42 > 0:25:46Getting told everything - when to smoke, when to eat.
0:25:46 > 0:25:49So, were you involved in, you know, I guess, drug use,
0:25:49 > 0:25:50smoking weed and stuff like that?
0:25:50 > 0:25:54And do you think that played a big part in your psychotic break?
0:25:54 > 0:25:56That's what I think drugs do.
0:25:56 > 0:25:58They take people that are unstable with their thinking
0:25:58 > 0:26:02and they make them more unstable, or possibly have a breakdown.
0:26:02 > 0:26:05If I was manic, it definitely made me psychotic.
0:26:05 > 0:26:08So, I guess this is the best point your life has been
0:26:08 > 0:26:09in the last couple of years?
0:26:09 > 0:26:11Up till now, it's been a year and a half, roughly,
0:26:11 > 0:26:14that I've stayed out of hospital. And, before that,
0:26:14 > 0:26:16I was going to hospital every single year,
0:26:16 > 0:26:18sometimes twice, three times a year.
0:26:18 > 0:26:19It was nice to meet you, man.
0:26:19 > 0:26:20And thanks a lot for taking the time...
0:26:20 > 0:26:24'He reminds me quite a bit of me, you know?
0:26:24 > 0:26:27'We're literally two guys that got caught up in a lot of things
0:26:27 > 0:26:28'that we weren't supposed to.
0:26:28 > 0:26:31'He got psychotic, I went through depression,'
0:26:31 > 0:26:34and I sit there and I think that could have easily been me, you know,
0:26:34 > 0:26:36going down a worse route.
0:26:39 > 0:26:43I want to check in on another person whose story has struck a chord.
0:26:43 > 0:26:45Hey, Simone.
0:26:45 > 0:26:47- How are you?- I'm good. How are you?
0:26:47 > 0:26:48I'm not too bad.
0:26:50 > 0:26:51'Like me, Simone spent many years
0:26:51 > 0:26:54'hiding her mental health problems from her family,
0:26:54 > 0:26:56'but now she's finally had the courage
0:26:56 > 0:26:57'to speak to her mum and dad.'
0:26:57 > 0:26:59You've spoken to Mum and Dad.
0:26:59 > 0:27:01You know, tell us a bit about how that went.
0:27:01 > 0:27:03I expected them, originally, to...
0:27:05 > 0:27:09..get a bit ticked off,
0:27:09 > 0:27:11but they were quite calm about it.
0:27:11 > 0:27:13Do you kind of feel like this is the start of a process, you know,
0:27:13 > 0:27:17the start of you kind of talking more about it to them
0:27:17 > 0:27:20and hopefully getting it all out into the open eventually?
0:27:20 > 0:27:22I think that this will be, like, the start
0:27:22 > 0:27:24of me just opening up to them,
0:27:24 > 0:27:28and also a way for them to understand.
0:27:28 > 0:27:29I know this isn't easy...
0:27:29 > 0:27:31- Yeah.- ..but you will get through it.
0:27:31 > 0:27:32- Yeah.- And it does get easier.
0:27:32 > 0:27:35It's true. Like, I'm doing well now, so...
0:27:35 > 0:27:37- Yeah.- ..it'll get better.
0:27:37 > 0:27:38I wish you all the best.
0:27:38 > 0:27:41- You too.- Take care.- You take care.
0:27:48 > 0:27:52Ashley's also trying to move on from his mental health issues.
0:27:52 > 0:27:54- How's it going, man?- Love, man.
0:27:54 > 0:27:56Are you ready for it today?
0:27:56 > 0:27:59Yeah, I'm ready to start. Yeah, good to go.
0:27:59 > 0:28:01- After you.- Yeah, let's go upstairs. - All right.
0:28:01 > 0:28:02'It's a big day for him,
0:28:02 > 0:28:04'he's starting his new job at the charity.'
0:28:04 > 0:28:06It's my desk, bruv!
0:28:08 > 0:28:10It's my desk!
0:28:10 > 0:28:11Look at that.
0:28:11 > 0:28:13My table. MY table!
0:28:13 > 0:28:15ASHLEY LAUGHS
0:28:15 > 0:28:18So, do you think, I guess, people like yourself, me,
0:28:18 > 0:28:22we're the people that are going to change society's view, you know,
0:28:22 > 0:28:25our community's view on mental health?
0:28:25 > 0:28:28I just want to help with the knowledge that I've got.
0:28:28 > 0:28:31But the way I see it is I can only help one, two, three,
0:28:31 > 0:28:33four people at a time. The most I can do.
0:28:33 > 0:28:35Like, I can only help as many people as I can help.
0:28:35 > 0:28:38But the way it's going to change... Like I said,
0:28:38 > 0:28:41it's not going to change from individuals like ourselves,
0:28:41 > 0:28:45it's young black males that are living...normal already.
0:28:45 > 0:28:46They're the ones who are getting judged.
0:28:46 > 0:28:48So we're not the ones to change it,
0:28:48 > 0:28:50it's for other people to change their opinions.
0:28:50 > 0:28:52And the only way that's going to happen, like I said,
0:28:52 > 0:28:54is by everyone jumping on board.
0:28:54 > 0:28:55Best of luck, man.
0:28:55 > 0:28:57Thanks for letting me come along on your journey
0:28:57 > 0:28:58and see how everything's going.
0:28:58 > 0:29:00I wish you the best for the future, man.
0:29:00 > 0:29:03Yeah, thank you very much, man. Thanks for everything, Keith.
0:29:03 > 0:29:05Love, bro, thank you very much.
0:29:05 > 0:29:07We need more people like Ashley
0:29:07 > 0:29:09to show that you can go from a very bad situation
0:29:09 > 0:29:10with your mental health
0:29:10 > 0:29:14to having a job where you help other people.
0:29:14 > 0:29:17It was an interesting journey, you know what I mean, to see...
0:29:18 > 0:29:22..someone like Ashley, someone like myself, you know what I mean,
0:29:22 > 0:29:24who's gone through a lot...
0:29:25 > 0:29:27..who has definitely gone through a lot,
0:29:27 > 0:29:30coming to a point where great things are happening for him.
0:29:30 > 0:29:33So I wouldn't say the journey's ending, you know what I mean,
0:29:33 > 0:29:34it's just the beginning.
0:29:39 > 0:29:40The last few months have been...
0:29:40 > 0:29:43It's been a real eye-opener for me, you know what I mean.
0:29:43 > 0:29:44'I've met a lot of wonderful people.'
0:29:44 > 0:29:46- It was very nice to meet you. - Take care.
0:29:46 > 0:29:48'It's a privilege that they were willing
0:29:48 > 0:29:50'to share their intimate experiences with me.'
0:29:50 > 0:29:53- How's it going, man?- Love, man.
0:29:53 > 0:29:54'As you dig deeper into it,'
0:29:54 > 0:29:58you start to realise it's a complex issue with multiple causes.
0:30:01 > 0:30:02I hate to use the word racism,
0:30:02 > 0:30:05but the authorities aren't getting it right all the time
0:30:05 > 0:30:07and a lot of black people are getting treated differently
0:30:07 > 0:30:08and that has to change,
0:30:08 > 0:30:10because it is, really... It's disgraceful.
0:30:13 > 0:30:14But within our communities,
0:30:14 > 0:30:17we have to be a lot more supportive of our own people.
0:30:17 > 0:30:18We need to drop the taboo.
0:30:18 > 0:30:19It's not a dirty little secret.
0:30:19 > 0:30:21You know, and if you or a family member
0:30:21 > 0:30:23is going through mental health issues,
0:30:23 > 0:30:25you know, you need to drop the shame.
0:30:26 > 0:30:29And those churches that see everything as a spiritual problem
0:30:29 > 0:30:31and they encourage people not to seek medical help,
0:30:31 > 0:30:32they need to grow up.
0:30:34 > 0:30:35So what can we do about this?
0:30:35 > 0:30:37We can start talking about it more.
0:30:37 > 0:30:39You know, start a conversation - that's something I'm good at.
0:30:39 > 0:30:42Getting people to think about things differently, that's what we need.
0:30:42 > 0:30:45We're not going to solve the problems of the system
0:30:45 > 0:30:47overnight, but if we do talk about these things,
0:30:47 > 0:30:48that's the beginning.
0:30:50 > 0:30:53And what I want to do is send out a tweet, #blackmentalhealth,
0:30:53 > 0:30:56get everyone talking about it, because that's what worked for me.
0:30:56 > 0:30:58And I'm hoping that this does get people thinking
0:30:58 > 0:31:02and it does help people realise that this isn't a dirty little secret,
0:31:02 > 0:31:04it's something that a lot of people go through
0:31:04 > 0:31:06and you could go through it yourself.