0:00:06 > 0:00:10- It's really old. - Andrea Macario de Oliviera.
0:00:11 > 0:00:17It's so cute that your grandparents put your photo in the local paper,
0:00:17 > 0:00:18and you still have it.
0:00:18 > 0:00:21You're not going to have this any more, ever.
0:00:21 > 0:00:23- After tomorrow.- What? A baby? - A baby.- That's fine.
0:00:25 > 0:00:28It doesn't bother me at all.
0:00:28 > 0:00:29It's for the best.
0:00:32 > 0:00:35One in five British women will end their child-bearing years
0:00:35 > 0:00:39without having a child, twice the number 30 years ago.
0:00:39 > 0:00:40I think we have to accept
0:00:40 > 0:00:43- that some people just really don't want children.- Yeah.
0:00:43 > 0:00:46We all know what a pain contraception is.
0:00:46 > 0:00:48And it must be even more infuriating
0:00:48 > 0:00:51when you really know you don't want to have children.
0:00:51 > 0:00:53The UK doesn't collect statistics for men,
0:00:53 > 0:00:57but figures from Europe suggest a similar decline in fatherhood.
0:00:58 > 0:01:02Now a growing child-free movement online is allowing people
0:01:02 > 0:01:05to share their advice and experiences with each other,
0:01:05 > 0:01:09away from the prejudice of their child-bearing friends and family.
0:01:09 > 0:01:12After spending time on the pages and forums,
0:01:12 > 0:01:16I found a group of young people so sure they never want children,
0:01:16 > 0:01:18they're getting permanently sterilised.
0:01:37 > 0:01:40Why do you want to go to the extreme of being sterilised?
0:01:40 > 0:01:43I think, essentially, because I'm so certain that I don't want kids
0:01:43 > 0:01:46that I don't want the possibility of getting pregnant.
0:01:46 > 0:01:48But with the potential for a lifetime of regret,
0:01:48 > 0:01:52should young people be allowed to do this to their own bodies?
0:01:52 > 0:01:54And should the NHS be supporting them?
0:02:03 > 0:02:04LAUGHTER
0:02:04 > 0:02:07- I mean, I don't want to be like... - I'm dying!
0:02:09 > 0:02:12I'm literally spinning around. I'm spinning around.
0:02:14 > 0:02:18- Yay! - Oh, my God, that was so stressful.
0:02:18 > 0:02:20I'm so stressed out, I've got back pain.
0:02:22 > 0:02:26'Last year, technology journalist Holly went public about her fight
0:02:26 > 0:02:28'to get a sterilisation on the NHS,
0:02:28 > 0:02:32'and her story became national news, sparking controversy.
0:02:32 > 0:02:35'She was accused of using the taxpayer to subsidise
0:02:35 > 0:02:38'what many thought was a lifestyle choice.'
0:02:38 > 0:02:42- Can you show me some of the comments that you've got?- OK.
0:02:42 > 0:02:43"Take responsibility for your own body.
0:02:43 > 0:02:46"The NHS isn't responsible for your sex life, you are.
0:02:46 > 0:02:49"There are other holes if you can't keep your legs shut."
0:02:49 > 0:02:50That's one I hear a lot.
0:02:50 > 0:02:53You know, hasn't she heard of the back door?
0:02:53 > 0:02:54This happens all the time.
0:02:54 > 0:02:58But this one was only particularly notable because she made a big point
0:02:58 > 0:03:00of the fact that she works in the NHS.
0:03:00 > 0:03:04"A&E is at breaking point, and this bird is bragging about this shit
0:03:04 > 0:03:06"like some kind of wronged heroine.
0:03:06 > 0:03:08"How about you take responsibility for your own sex life
0:03:08 > 0:03:10"and contraception like the rest of us do,
0:03:10 > 0:03:14"and stop acting like a stroppy, self-entitled teenager?"
0:03:14 > 0:03:16I've heard that I should kill myself many times.
0:03:16 > 0:03:19That I'm pointless as a human being, because I'm not going to reproduce.
0:03:19 > 0:03:21That I have no heart, no soul.
0:03:21 > 0:03:25And you must get this, but one of the first questions is,
0:03:25 > 0:03:29- "It's so drastic, isn't it?"- Yes. - "You're destroying a healthy organ."
0:03:29 > 0:03:31I have been thinking about this, researching it,
0:03:31 > 0:03:34and fighting it for so long, you don't make an irreversible decision
0:03:34 > 0:03:37unless you are 150% certain.
0:03:37 > 0:03:39What if you change your mind?
0:03:39 > 0:03:42Because you have to factor that that could potentially happen.
0:03:42 > 0:03:45I don't think this is ever going to be something I need to worry about,
0:03:45 > 0:03:48but in the event that that happens, there are other options.
0:03:48 > 0:03:51And so the people who are terribly, terribly concerned on my behalf
0:03:51 > 0:03:53that I'm going to die alone,
0:03:53 > 0:03:56those people can rest easy that there are other ways,
0:03:56 > 0:03:57if that comes to be.
0:03:57 > 0:04:01But what about this indescribable feeling of being a mother?
0:04:01 > 0:04:04Of having a child wrap its arm around you?
0:04:04 > 0:04:05Something that you've created?
0:04:05 > 0:04:08I mean, you're never going to feel that, ever.
0:04:08 > 0:04:12That is true. I will never get to hold a baby that I've made,
0:04:12 > 0:04:15I'll never feel what it's like to be a mother,
0:04:15 > 0:04:18but equally, I will never get to be a space ballerina.
0:04:18 > 0:04:20And I'm kind of OK with that, you know?
0:04:20 > 0:04:23Life is about closing certain doors so that you can open other ones.
0:04:23 > 0:04:26Have you ever been pregnant before?
0:04:26 > 0:04:27I have been pregnant.
0:04:29 > 0:04:32I don't think I've ever cried so much in my life.
0:04:32 > 0:04:34I was just crying, and crying, and crying.
0:04:34 > 0:04:35I didn't know what to do.
0:04:35 > 0:04:36Sorry.
0:04:39 > 0:04:40What did happen?
0:04:41 > 0:04:44When I was pregnant last year...
0:04:44 > 0:04:48I'm very, very much in favour of abortions being available,
0:04:48 > 0:04:51but I personally don't think I would be able to have one.
0:04:51 > 0:04:53So at the point where I was pregnant,
0:04:53 > 0:04:57I was 100% sure that I was going to be carrying that baby to term,
0:04:57 > 0:04:59and I was going to give it up for adoption.
0:04:59 > 0:05:04It wasn't necessary in the end, you know, the baby didn't survive.
0:05:04 > 0:05:10And I knew that people would say that somehow I had willed it away.
0:05:10 > 0:05:16You know, that the baby had somehow felt unwanted and couldn't stay.
0:05:17 > 0:05:20Because I didn't... It knew I didn't want to be its mother.
0:05:22 > 0:05:25Holly had been sterile for six months.
0:05:25 > 0:05:29Her story resonated with young, child-free people across the UK.
0:05:30 > 0:05:33I wanted to meet some of them who had just started that journey.
0:05:33 > 0:05:36- Hello.- Hi, Paul, I'm Poppy.
0:05:36 > 0:05:38- Nice to meet you.- Hi, Poppy. If you want to come in.
0:05:38 > 0:05:39'People such as Paul,
0:05:39 > 0:05:42'a 29-year-old Warhammer enthusiast from Hampshire.'
0:05:43 > 0:05:45Paul's wife didn't want to be in the film,
0:05:45 > 0:05:49because she was concerned about the trolling and abuse she might receive
0:05:49 > 0:05:51as a result of their decision to be child-free.
0:05:53 > 0:05:56Paul is a type one diabetic, a condition which can be fatal
0:05:56 > 0:06:00if not constantly monitored, and some studies indicate
0:06:00 > 0:06:03that type one diabetes can double the risk of depression.
0:06:03 > 0:06:05What does that say?
0:06:05 > 0:06:07Ooh, 16.7. That's really quite high.
0:06:07 > 0:06:12So all I'm going to do is dose up a little bit of extra insulin.
0:06:12 > 0:06:16- You mentioned that you had depression.- Mm.
0:06:16 > 0:06:19Is that one of the reasons why you also don't want to have children?
0:06:19 > 0:06:20Just because I've got depression,
0:06:20 > 0:06:24it doesn't guarantee that any kids I would have would have it.
0:06:24 > 0:06:25But it's an increased likelihood,
0:06:25 > 0:06:29and I wouldn't want them to suffer that either, because it...
0:06:29 > 0:06:33Mental health is so difficult for anyone to deal with,
0:06:33 > 0:06:36let alone, like, people around you. Because everyone's different.
0:06:36 > 0:06:38Why do you want a vasectomy?
0:06:38 > 0:06:42I've never really found much in the way of a parental instinct.
0:06:42 > 0:06:46If the worst should have occurred in the past and I had a child,
0:06:46 > 0:06:50I would have, of course, stepped up to help look after it.
0:06:51 > 0:06:55But I can't say I wouldn't resent the child.
0:06:55 > 0:06:58You've seen a GP about getting a vasectomy before, haven't you?
0:06:58 > 0:07:01When I was 18, I went in and tried to get one.
0:07:01 > 0:07:03When I was 19, I tried to get one.
0:07:03 > 0:07:06All the way through university and college.
0:07:06 > 0:07:08And how were you treated?
0:07:08 > 0:07:13It's the "you're too young, you definitely don't know what you want.
0:07:13 > 0:07:14"Go away".
0:07:14 > 0:07:17How far along are you in the whole process?
0:07:17 > 0:07:20Well, I've got an appointment coming up,
0:07:20 > 0:07:24but I'm not expecting them to give me that positive answer that I want.
0:07:24 > 0:07:28So I'm looking that I'm probably going to have to fight for it.
0:07:32 > 0:07:37As I spoke to more people online, I met Leah on a child-free forum.
0:07:37 > 0:07:40Leah suffers from depression and ME,
0:07:40 > 0:07:44also known as chronic fatigue, a debilitating condition
0:07:44 > 0:07:47which leaves sufferers constantly exhausted.
0:07:48 > 0:07:52Leah and her boyfriend, Phil, have both agreed not to have children.
0:07:53 > 0:07:55'Leah is looking to get sterilised,
0:07:55 > 0:07:58'and I wanted to know why a young couple would take
0:07:58 > 0:08:01'what some may consider such a drastic step.'
0:08:01 > 0:08:03Did kids come up on the first date?
0:08:03 > 0:08:04Not the first date.
0:08:04 > 0:08:07No, I certainly don't think it was anything like that.
0:08:07 > 0:08:10Did that come up much, much later?
0:08:10 > 0:08:13I don't think it was ever brought up.
0:08:13 > 0:08:17How did you both know neither of you want children?
0:08:17 > 0:08:22I think it's slightly more for Leah, in the fact that...
0:08:22 > 0:08:26I can bear to be around them for a little bit longer.
0:08:26 > 0:08:29- And, you know...- He's very good with them, in comparison to me.
0:08:29 > 0:08:33I blatantly look like I'm trying to interact with a foreign object.
0:08:33 > 0:08:36And, you know, obviously, health-wise...
0:08:36 > 0:08:38I couldn't physically handle one.
0:08:38 > 0:08:44I'd have to come off my medication to have a pregnancy.
0:08:44 > 0:08:46It would affect the health of a child,
0:08:46 > 0:08:49should I come off my medication.
0:08:49 > 0:08:53And that's the stuff that keeps me awake, keeps me pain free,
0:08:53 > 0:08:56and helps me be a normal person.
0:08:56 > 0:08:58And that is why I would opt out.
0:08:58 > 0:09:01I don't think I could handle it, and it wouldn't be fair.
0:09:01 > 0:09:04'Leah clearly had the full support of her boyfriend,
0:09:04 > 0:09:07'but I wanted to know what her parents thought of her decision
0:09:07 > 0:09:09'to get sterilised.'
0:09:09 > 0:09:13You probably know about Leah, and what she wants to do.
0:09:13 > 0:09:15- How do you feel about it? - Totally her decision.
0:09:15 > 0:09:18Yeah. Completely hers.
0:09:18 > 0:09:20Should she accidentally become pregnant,
0:09:20 > 0:09:23she could not cope with a baby.
0:09:23 > 0:09:25The fact that she's got ME...
0:09:26 > 0:09:28She hasn't got the energy.
0:09:28 > 0:09:30Leah was a very, very active baby.
0:09:31 > 0:09:37- Very active.- Really, even very active is underselling it.
0:09:37 > 0:09:40As she got older you'd hear the front door slam and she'd be out -
0:09:40 > 0:09:46pogo stick, skates, bike, nonstop, running everywhere.
0:09:46 > 0:09:49I think we've lost the person she used to be.
0:09:49 > 0:09:53I don't know if it's hit Leah yet, but I think...
0:09:53 > 0:09:57there's a sort of, I wouldn't say grieving process,
0:09:57 > 0:10:00but you're really aware that you've lost the person
0:10:00 > 0:10:03that they used to be, that you used to know,
0:10:03 > 0:10:06and it's a different person who's taken their place.
0:10:09 > 0:10:12The people I've met so far were in committed relationships
0:10:12 > 0:10:14and had arrived at their decision
0:10:14 > 0:10:16with the full consent of their partners.
0:10:16 > 0:10:20I wanted to meet someone who was single when I heard from Vaughan.
0:10:20 > 0:10:23He let me go with him to his vasectomy operation.
0:10:24 > 0:10:26'Vaughan has Asperger's syndrome,
0:10:26 > 0:10:28'and though he isn't in a relationship,
0:10:28 > 0:10:32'he was extremely concerned about the prospect of becoming a parent.'
0:10:32 > 0:10:34Can you tell me, why are you getting a vasectomy?
0:10:34 > 0:10:37It's quite a drastic decision, isn't it?
0:10:37 > 0:10:41It's because I am scared of the thought of having my own children,
0:10:41 > 0:10:43and how much I would stand to lose.
0:10:43 > 0:10:46- What you mean by that?- Many people don't notice it in me,
0:10:46 > 0:10:49but I am mildly on the autism spectrum.
0:10:49 > 0:10:52I have seen a lot of parents
0:10:52 > 0:10:56that can't cope with kids who are on the spectrum,
0:10:56 > 0:11:00and I wouldn't want to risk it.
0:11:00 > 0:11:04Do you worry about how you'll approach it when you, you know,
0:11:04 > 0:11:07start dating, when you want to be in a long-term relationship?
0:11:07 > 0:11:10I would find it difficult to break the news, and I mean,
0:11:10 > 0:11:14I sadly will have to. But I mean, I have...
0:11:14 > 0:11:18There have been situations where people have actually
0:11:18 > 0:11:20tried to force me to have sex with them.
0:11:21 > 0:11:23And I stopped myself.
0:11:24 > 0:11:27I just said, "I don't want to get anyone pregnant,"
0:11:27 > 0:11:31and I have had nightmares at night where people,
0:11:31 > 0:11:36where I have got someone pregnant, and then I just wake up in a sweat,
0:11:36 > 0:11:38and it is really scary.
0:11:38 > 0:11:41But you could always wear a condom, though, couldn't you?
0:11:41 > 0:11:45Well, it's because I know condoms can fail,
0:11:45 > 0:11:49and it was really watching EastEnders in 2009
0:11:49 > 0:11:54when Ronnie Mitchell secretly, desperately wanted children,
0:11:54 > 0:11:59and I even saw her sticking a pin in her partner's condom beforehand,
0:11:59 > 0:12:01to try and trick him into it.
0:12:01 > 0:12:04And I know I would never want to chance that.
0:12:07 > 0:12:12- So, Vaughan, good luck.- Thank you. - See you the on other side.- Yeah.
0:12:13 > 0:12:15Vaughan was so determined to get the operation
0:12:15 > 0:12:19that he was paying for it himself, despite his concerns
0:12:19 > 0:12:22about it affecting his chances of finding a partner.
0:12:24 > 0:12:28With the growing community of people supporting sterilisation online,
0:12:28 > 0:12:30there are some who are totally against it.
0:12:33 > 0:12:37Leonora Butau is a bioethicist, a mother,
0:12:37 > 0:12:40and specialist in the ethics of fertility and sex.
0:12:41 > 0:12:44What do you think about those people who've made themselves
0:12:44 > 0:12:48permanently infertile because they are worried they'll pass on
0:12:48 > 0:12:51their mental health to their future offspring?
0:12:51 > 0:12:55Sterilisation, basically, damages a perfectly healthy working organ.
0:12:55 > 0:12:56It destroys it.
0:12:56 > 0:12:59It's a really drastic procedure.
0:12:59 > 0:13:03Medicine is a profession of healing, of health,
0:13:03 > 0:13:05of restoring someone to health,
0:13:05 > 0:13:10so the very philosophy of medicine is challenged by these procedures.
0:13:10 > 0:13:12Would you go as far as to say that
0:13:12 > 0:13:15sterilisation should be totally abolished?
0:13:15 > 0:13:18I would say that sterilisation and vasectomy
0:13:18 > 0:13:20is not good for the human person.
0:13:20 > 0:13:23You know, our fertility is not a disease, it's a gift.
0:13:23 > 0:13:27You know, something that's part of us as a human being,
0:13:27 > 0:13:32and it has a huge stake on our overall health and wellbeing.
0:13:32 > 0:13:35We're approaching these people in a way that we feel
0:13:35 > 0:13:39that they're beyond redemption. They cannot be cured.
0:13:39 > 0:13:42They cannot be helped. And I think that's a really, um...
0:13:43 > 0:13:46That's a really harmful way of looking at people
0:13:46 > 0:13:48who are dealing with all these issues.
0:13:50 > 0:13:52Leonora seemed to believe that sterilisation
0:13:52 > 0:13:56was a form of mutilation rather than a legitimate medical procedure.
0:13:57 > 0:13:59Later that day,
0:13:59 > 0:14:02Vaughan called me to say tell me how he'd got on at his operation.
0:14:02 > 0:14:04PHONE RINGS
0:14:04 > 0:14:06Hi, Vaughan, how are you?
0:14:06 > 0:14:07What happened?
0:14:38 > 0:14:42Unlike Vaughan, Paul's progress so far had been successful,
0:14:42 > 0:14:45but perhaps the surgeon would eventually turn him away too,
0:14:45 > 0:14:48telling him it was for his own good.
0:14:48 > 0:14:49Now, you're coming in under your own steam?
0:14:49 > 0:14:51You're not being forced into this? This is...
0:14:51 > 0:14:53Yes, my own volition, yes.
0:14:53 > 0:14:55You've thought through the implications,
0:14:55 > 0:14:58and you're pretty happy, the both of you are happy about this?
0:14:58 > 0:15:00And you're not sneaking in without your wife's consent?
0:15:00 > 0:15:02Basically, she is fully in on this as well?
0:15:02 > 0:15:03She knows. She's fully in on this.
0:15:03 > 0:15:05OK. I'd like to examine you first, if that's all right.
0:15:05 > 0:15:07- Yeah.- Just to make sure that everything
0:15:07 > 0:15:09is structurally where we think it's going to be.
0:15:09 > 0:15:11You don't usually have any chronic issues at all?
0:15:11 > 0:15:14I've never had any issues other than catching it in a zip once.
0:15:14 > 0:15:15- OK.- So...
0:15:17 > 0:15:20- And the area we are basically trying to feel for is the vas.- Yeah.
0:15:20 > 0:15:23If you rub your finger over it, it feels like, just undercooked pasta.
0:15:23 > 0:15:24Yeah. Excellent.
0:15:24 > 0:15:27- So get yourself dressed, and come on through when you're ready.- OK.
0:15:27 > 0:15:30The vas coming down is cut here, folded back on itself,
0:15:30 > 0:15:33so that, basically, the sperm can't get back up.
0:15:33 > 0:15:36The volume of ejaculate that you produce is a little bit less,
0:15:36 > 0:15:37but it should still be the same intensity.
0:15:37 > 0:15:39It shouldn't affect your erectile function,
0:15:39 > 0:15:40it shouldn't affect your orgasm.
0:15:40 > 0:15:42- There are side effects of this.- Yep.
0:15:42 > 0:15:45Potential risk of bleeding and infection, about 1% or 2% risk
0:15:45 > 0:15:48for each of those, and there's a small risk of chronic pain.
0:15:48 > 0:15:51It can be weeks to months, it can be much longer than that,
0:15:51 > 0:15:54but very rarely, years or lifelong,
0:15:54 > 0:15:58but it's not something to embark on lightly.
0:15:58 > 0:16:02Do you get patients like Paul coming to you who don't have children?
0:16:02 > 0:16:04Yeah, there are a few.
0:16:04 > 0:16:06I can't say there's enough of them to be able to say, you know,
0:16:06 > 0:16:08two last year, four this year.
0:16:08 > 0:16:12There's not much of a trend. It's a smallish number, basically.
0:16:12 > 0:16:14- Nice to see you.- Indeed, thank you.
0:16:14 > 0:16:16'How do you feel now?'
0:16:16 > 0:16:19Quite elated that I can definitely get the procedure done.
0:16:19 > 0:16:21Things have gone rather well so far.
0:16:25 > 0:16:28'It was time to need the young person who got me looking
0:16:28 > 0:16:30'into this subculture in the first place.'
0:16:30 > 0:16:32Hello.
0:16:32 > 0:16:33'I first met Andie online.
0:16:34 > 0:16:38'Andie chooses not to identify as a specific gender,
0:16:38 > 0:16:41'so has asked to be referred to as they.
0:16:41 > 0:16:44'I went to see Andie the night before the sterilisation.'
0:16:44 > 0:16:47Ooh, hello, kitty cat. What's the cat's name?
0:16:47 > 0:16:50- Pepe.- Pepe?- Yeah.- Hello, Pepe. PEPE MEOWS
0:16:51 > 0:16:55Why are you doing this? What's motivated you?
0:16:55 > 0:16:58I don't know. I just feel like I shouldn't be having children.
0:16:58 > 0:17:00And I don't want to, you know...
0:17:00 > 0:17:02Mental health problems, and things like that.
0:17:02 > 0:17:04I just don't want to have to pass things on.
0:17:04 > 0:17:07I don't know. And then, obviously the work that I do,
0:17:07 > 0:17:08I just don't want to...
0:17:08 > 0:17:12accidentally fall pregnant. That would be awful.
0:17:12 > 0:17:14And what kind of work do you do?
0:17:14 > 0:17:18I'm a sex worker. So, yeah, there's more...
0:17:18 > 0:17:20I guess more risk of getting pregnant, in a way.
0:17:20 > 0:17:22Because I'm having a lot of sex.
0:17:26 > 0:17:28- Do you like my slippers? - Yeah, I didn't notice those.
0:17:28 > 0:17:31I do like them. It's not My Little Pony...
0:17:31 > 0:17:34- It is. - Oh, it IS My Little Pony.- Yeah.
0:17:34 > 0:17:36- Is that your dad? - No, that's my uncle.
0:17:38 > 0:17:40No, I never met my dad.
0:17:40 > 0:17:42- You never met him?- No.
0:17:42 > 0:17:45- You've got, you know, My Pony. - My Little Pony.- My Little Pony.
0:17:45 > 0:17:47You've got...Mr Squidgy there in the middle.
0:17:47 > 0:17:53I mean, they're dolls and ponies, it's something that children have.
0:17:53 > 0:17:58And yet, tomorrow, you're getting permanently sterilised.
0:17:58 > 0:18:02Yeah. I'm like a five-year-old child in an adult body.
0:18:04 > 0:18:07Yeah, I guess, like, I had a really difficult childhood.
0:18:07 > 0:18:12And for most of it I wasn't able to be a child, so I kind of, like,
0:18:12 > 0:18:16am, like, reliving my childhood, but, like, as an adult.
0:18:17 > 0:18:20- Do you talk to your mum? - No, no, no. My mum disowned me.
0:18:21 > 0:18:23So, no, I don't have a mother.
0:18:24 > 0:18:27Andie, do you think, you know,
0:18:27 > 0:18:30the trauma that you experienced when you were younger
0:18:30 > 0:18:33has anything to do with the fact that you don't want children?
0:18:33 > 0:18:36Oh, yeah, definitely. 100%.
0:18:36 > 0:18:39I wouldn't want to have kids and they go through the same experiences
0:18:39 > 0:18:41that I've been through. 100%.
0:18:42 > 0:18:45I'm sure I'd make a good mother, but...
0:18:45 > 0:18:47I suppose that's not what you want.
0:18:47 > 0:18:49- You don't want to be a mother. - Yeah, I don't want to be a mother.
0:18:51 > 0:18:54'I left Andie wondering whether their lifestyle was a result
0:18:54 > 0:18:57'of a difficult upbringing and, if things had turned out differently,
0:18:57 > 0:18:59'whether they would still deny themselves
0:18:59 > 0:19:01'the chance of motherhood.'
0:19:03 > 0:19:07The night before Paul's vasectomy, I went to meet his friends.
0:19:07 > 0:19:10I wanted to know whether they supported his decision,
0:19:10 > 0:19:13and if they did, was it due to friendship,
0:19:13 > 0:19:16or a belief in his own fundamental rights?
0:19:16 > 0:19:19Bonus points tonight if you have any cards referencing Paul's bollocks.
0:19:19 > 0:19:21LAUGHTER
0:19:21 > 0:19:23- Oh, I think I've got one. - Go on, Poppy.
0:19:23 > 0:19:25I bet it's going to be awful, isn't it?
0:19:25 > 0:19:28"Before I kill you, Mr Bond, I must show you...
0:19:28 > 0:19:30"Lance Armstrong's missing testicle."
0:19:30 > 0:19:32THEY LAUGH
0:19:34 > 0:19:37I think it would actually be Lance Armstrong's missing testicle.
0:19:37 > 0:19:39Yes!
0:19:39 > 0:19:42There we go, you get to keep the black one, that is your point.
0:19:42 > 0:19:45So what do you guys think about Paul's operation tomorrow?
0:19:45 > 0:19:48I think it's great, yeah. He's doing what he wants to do.
0:19:48 > 0:19:50It's like, there's not a lot of people that you'll see,
0:19:50 > 0:19:53cos everyone's like, "It's the dream - have kids, have a house,"
0:19:53 > 0:19:55all that jazz. I want kids, but if you don't want kids,
0:19:55 > 0:19:57then you don't want kids.
0:19:57 > 0:19:59And also, Paul not being in the gene pool?
0:19:59 > 0:20:02- Yay! - THEY LAUGH
0:20:02 > 0:20:06So none of you guys have tried to talk him out of it or...?
0:20:06 > 0:20:08There wouldn't be much point anyway.
0:20:08 > 0:20:10- He wouldn't listen.- I find it really weird, cos, obviously,
0:20:10 > 0:20:13we do the same thing. We both work for the same company,
0:20:13 > 0:20:15we do exactly the same job. And if I didn't like kids,
0:20:15 > 0:20:18I would find it really hard to do my job.
0:20:18 > 0:20:20I've met people who are getting vasectomies,
0:20:20 > 0:20:22who want to get sterilised,
0:20:22 > 0:20:25who are in different parts of the process, and I've met people
0:20:25 > 0:20:28who've got mental health problems who say that it runs in the family,
0:20:28 > 0:20:31they don't want to pass that on. What do you guys think about that?
0:20:31 > 0:20:33I think that's completely justified.
0:20:33 > 0:20:35Obviously, if you bring a child into life,
0:20:35 > 0:20:38then you have to witness part of yourself
0:20:38 > 0:20:39suffer through that as well.
0:20:39 > 0:20:41I can imagine that to be very emotionally hard.
0:20:41 > 0:20:44And having been, sort of, "the cause of it," for want of a better word.
0:20:44 > 0:20:46Yeah, cos I guess you could put yourself to blame.
0:20:46 > 0:20:50Do you think there's a gene or an innate thing in you
0:20:50 > 0:20:52that makes you not want to be a parent?
0:20:52 > 0:20:54- No.- If you're genetically deficient, yeah!
0:20:54 > 0:20:56THEY LAUGH
0:20:56 > 0:20:58I just think Paul is taking that one extra step and saying,
0:20:58 > 0:21:01"Well, I don't want kids. I'm a human being.
0:21:01 > 0:21:03"I'm civilised enough to go..." It's just another step
0:21:03 > 0:21:05in the civilisation process.
0:21:05 > 0:21:08Eventually, I'd say, 100 years down the line,
0:21:08 > 0:21:10one in five people will be doing it.
0:21:10 > 0:21:13He's more civilised than the rest of us.
0:21:13 > 0:21:16Don't tell him that! You can tell he's new to the group, can't you?
0:21:16 > 0:21:17- Yeah! - THEY LAUGH
0:21:24 > 0:21:26Andie had been posting live updates
0:21:26 > 0:21:29throughout the sterilisation procedure online,
0:21:29 > 0:21:31which had attracted a lot of attention.
0:21:33 > 0:21:35I headed to the hospital to meet Andie,
0:21:35 > 0:21:37where they were waiting with partner, Jo.
0:21:37 > 0:21:40Hi. How are you feeling?
0:21:41 > 0:21:43- In pain.- Yeah?
0:21:43 > 0:21:46I read on your Facebook status that they had to put fluid,
0:21:46 > 0:21:48and you're bleeding heavily and...
0:21:48 > 0:21:51Yeah, my womb lining collapsed.
0:21:51 > 0:21:53You didn't tell me on the phone! Oh, my God.
0:21:54 > 0:21:57- So what does that mean? Is that...? - Oh, no, it's fine.
0:21:58 > 0:22:00'Andie seemed upset about something,
0:22:00 > 0:22:02'and I soon found out it was because of a post
0:22:02 > 0:22:05'a cousin had written online about the sterilisation.'
0:22:05 > 0:22:06Why were you upset?
0:22:06 > 0:22:09What did your cousin say to you on this Facebook thread?
0:22:09 > 0:22:11"You're really going to regret it in the future," or something.
0:22:11 > 0:22:16Something like that. And it put a dampener on how I was feeling.
0:22:16 > 0:22:18Like, I was quite chirpy and stuff before,
0:22:18 > 0:22:21and it did make me kind of feel really sad and upset.
0:22:21 > 0:22:26It's easier to, like, put people in their place when it's, like,
0:22:26 > 0:22:28friends and stuff, or people you don't know,
0:22:28 > 0:22:30but it's a lot harder to have these conversations with family.
0:22:30 > 0:22:32I think the thing that upset me the most
0:22:32 > 0:22:34is that she then commented saying,
0:22:34 > 0:22:37"I'm her cousin, so I can say whatever I want".
0:22:37 > 0:22:40And it's kind of like, "Well, not really."
0:22:40 > 0:22:41My friend, she's in her 30s, I think,
0:22:41 > 0:22:44and she's been wanting to do this for ages and been struggling.
0:22:44 > 0:22:46So I think she messaged you, being like,
0:22:46 > 0:22:48"You've inspired me to try even harder now,"
0:22:48 > 0:22:49because they won't let her do it.
0:22:49 > 0:22:53I've got friends on there who are, like, nearing 40, and they...
0:22:53 > 0:22:55Like, their GP and stuff is still saying no.
0:22:55 > 0:22:56What's the reason for saying no?
0:22:56 > 0:23:00I think it's more of a wider problem
0:23:00 > 0:23:04in that the idea that particularly women,
0:23:04 > 0:23:08or people who have uteruses,
0:23:08 > 0:23:11having the control over their own body. Because even now,
0:23:11 > 0:23:15we're still discussing abortion and the right to have an abortion,
0:23:15 > 0:23:18and I think sterilisation kind of falls under that as well.
0:23:18 > 0:23:21But there are so many people who should not be parents,
0:23:21 > 0:23:23cos they're really unfit parents.
0:23:23 > 0:23:25And they're having children, and it's fine.
0:23:25 > 0:23:27And the state backs them up.
0:23:27 > 0:23:29But if you know that you don't want children,
0:23:29 > 0:23:32- and, you know, you're certain, it's so difficult.- Yeah.
0:23:34 > 0:23:36Andie's sterilisation seemed to be
0:23:36 > 0:23:38the culmination of a personal struggle
0:23:38 > 0:23:41about taking control of one's own fertility.
0:23:43 > 0:23:45Now it was time for Paul.
0:23:45 > 0:23:48It was the morning of his vasectomy,
0:23:48 > 0:23:50something he had wanted for 11 years.
0:23:51 > 0:23:54- Hi, Paul.- Hello. - How are you feeling?
0:23:54 > 0:23:56A little bit nervous, to be honest.
0:23:56 > 0:23:59Yeah? Because of the actual procedure, or is it because
0:23:59 > 0:24:01you're never going to have...?
0:24:01 > 0:24:04It's honestly that there is going to be a knife stuck into my bollocks.
0:24:04 > 0:24:06POPPY LAUGHS
0:24:06 > 0:24:07Right.
0:24:10 > 0:24:12So, Paul, I'm going to go now.
0:24:14 > 0:24:17I don't know why I feel nervous for you.
0:24:17 > 0:24:20- I shouldn't say that. I'll see you later.- See you.- Bye.
0:25:44 > 0:25:48This is it. Do you feel a huge sense of relief now?
0:25:48 > 0:25:51I do feel a sense of relief, yep,
0:25:51 > 0:25:55because it means that there's no risk of children in the future.
0:25:56 > 0:25:58And that makes you feel very happy?
0:25:58 > 0:26:01Yeah. It means I can get on with my sexual misadventures
0:26:01 > 0:26:04and not have to pay any prices for it.
0:26:04 > 0:26:08And how would you summarise this entire experience?
0:26:08 > 0:26:10Everyone has their own individual reason
0:26:10 > 0:26:12for not wanting to have children.
0:26:12 > 0:26:15And a lot of these people, like myself, have gone,
0:26:15 > 0:26:18"OK, well I've got this medical condition,
0:26:18 > 0:26:19"I don't want to risk that."
0:26:19 > 0:26:22Some people just flat out hate children.
0:26:22 > 0:26:24But is it like a growing movement here?
0:26:24 > 0:26:28More and more people coming out here?
0:26:28 > 0:26:30- In the UK?- I think there are.
0:26:30 > 0:26:33But at the same time, it's because we're so far-flung,
0:26:33 > 0:26:35and everyone has their own individual reasons.
0:26:35 > 0:26:38You can't really have a rallying banner and say,
0:26:38 > 0:26:41"We're all child-free, rah, rah, rah".
0:26:41 > 0:26:46Because we don't... We're not really oppressed or anything.
0:26:46 > 0:26:50We're just unfortunately not taken as seriously as we'd like.
0:26:52 > 0:26:55Sceptics might say the people I met
0:26:55 > 0:26:58were too young to make a decision so final
0:26:58 > 0:27:00with their lives still ahead of them.
0:27:01 > 0:27:04But it struck me their conviction was much more
0:27:04 > 0:27:07than just a choice of sexual convenience.
0:27:08 > 0:27:10They've carefully considered
0:27:10 > 0:27:13how serious their own mental and physical issues are,
0:27:13 > 0:27:17and they don't want to pass these on to any children,
0:27:17 > 0:27:21and, as such, have opted to remove themselves as potential parents.
0:27:21 > 0:27:23A course of action which could, perhaps,
0:27:23 > 0:27:28cost society and the taxpayer far less in the long run.
0:27:28 > 0:27:30And for those who choose sterilisation,
0:27:30 > 0:27:34it's not just contraception, but a means to fundamentally
0:27:34 > 0:27:38take control of their own bodies and their lives.