0:00:02 > 0:00:07This programme contains some scenes which some viewers may find upsetting
0:00:07 > 0:00:11The Holocaust is one of the defining events of the 20th century.
0:00:15 > 0:00:20There are many testimonies, many stories about those who survived
0:00:20 > 0:00:23and those that died.
0:00:24 > 0:00:27And every one is remarkable,
0:00:27 > 0:00:30moving and unique.
0:00:33 > 0:00:35Merci beaucoup, merci.
0:00:35 > 0:00:38Freddie Knoller is one of the survivors.
0:00:38 > 0:00:43At the age of 17 he was sent away from home to escape the Nazis
0:00:43 > 0:00:47and for most of the war he remained one step ahead of them...
0:00:51 > 0:00:55..but he was finally caught.
0:00:58 > 0:01:00Just sit yourself down.
0:01:02 > 0:01:06Now 93, Freddie lives in north London.
0:01:06 > 0:01:07Excuse me, where's the camera?
0:01:07 > 0:01:10Ah, yeah, I can see your face now, yeah, yeah,
0:01:10 > 0:01:13because this is quite strong, that light.
0:01:13 > 0:01:16What follows is his story -
0:01:16 > 0:01:21his memories of what happened over 70 years ago.
0:01:21 > 0:01:23Everyone happy?
0:01:23 > 0:01:24Then we shall begin.
0:01:36 > 0:01:39- NEWSREEL:- Vienna, even now, gayest city of central Europe
0:01:39 > 0:01:42with an architectural beauty from the historic buildings
0:01:42 > 0:01:45on the Ring Platz to the great modern flats.
0:01:49 > 0:01:51My name is Freddie Knoller.
0:01:51 > 0:01:55I was born in Vienna in 1921.
0:01:58 > 0:02:04Our district was the second district of Vienna, the Leopoldstadt.
0:02:04 > 0:02:07A lot of Jews lived in the second district,
0:02:07 > 0:02:11but it was a mixed district.
0:02:11 > 0:02:13We had neighbours, Christian neighbours.
0:02:13 > 0:02:17In fact, in the school we were mixed with Christian children.
0:02:21 > 0:02:25Near us there was a big funfair, the Prater.
0:02:36 > 0:02:42And I remember our big dream was to go on the Riesenrad,
0:02:42 > 0:02:45the wheel, the big wheel.
0:02:53 > 0:02:56My father was an accountant,
0:02:56 > 0:02:59or Buchhalter they called it in German,
0:02:59 > 0:03:02and he was very strict with us.
0:03:06 > 0:03:09My mother was terrific.
0:03:09 > 0:03:13She gave us so much love and support.
0:03:22 > 0:03:25Music was very important.
0:03:31 > 0:03:35In the evening, the three of the brother Knollers, we'd play together.
0:03:42 > 0:03:47We played for our own pleasure Viennese music,
0:03:47 > 0:03:51The Blue Danube and, you know, all the popular music of that time.
0:03:54 > 0:03:57The atmosphere was, in our house, was really wonderful
0:03:57 > 0:03:59because of that music.
0:04:03 > 0:04:06I was a happy-go-lucky boy.
0:04:07 > 0:04:12I tried to stay away from serious things.
0:04:13 > 0:04:16I enjoyed life.
0:04:18 > 0:04:20Um...
0:04:20 > 0:04:26life was quite fantastic for me during my childhood.
0:04:40 > 0:04:4311th March was my brother Erich's birthday...
0:04:45 > 0:04:50..and on that day we had festivities at home.
0:04:50 > 0:04:56And we heard on the radio that German troops went into Austria.
0:04:56 > 0:05:00- NEWSREEL:- All peoples around the globe were electrified
0:05:00 > 0:05:03with Germany's lightning-like invasion of Austria.
0:05:06 > 0:05:10From Innsbruck to Brenner Pass, Austrian independence was crushed
0:05:10 > 0:05:13beneath the heels of goose-stepping Nazi legions.
0:05:13 > 0:05:14CHEERING
0:05:15 > 0:05:17Millions jammed country lanes and city streets
0:05:17 > 0:05:19to gain a glimpse of the man who proclaimed himself a leader
0:05:19 > 0:05:22of the peaceful country of seven million.
0:05:22 > 0:05:25We were quite amazed
0:05:25 > 0:05:28because we didn't think that Austria
0:05:28 > 0:05:32would welcome Germany to come into Austria, but they did.
0:05:35 > 0:05:40Austrians were very happy to have the Germans in their country.
0:05:44 > 0:05:48We were told not to go to our school any more.
0:05:48 > 0:05:52The Jews were only allowed to learn a trade.
0:05:55 > 0:05:59My oldest brother Otto could not continue his medical studies.
0:06:04 > 0:06:10And then we heard about the harassment of Jews in our district.
0:06:14 > 0:06:18This is when I heard for the first time this shouting,
0:06:18 > 0:06:22"Jude verrecke!" - Jews perish,
0:06:22 > 0:06:27and it affected me terribly because somehow I said,
0:06:27 > 0:06:31"How do they want me to perish? Why do they want me to perish?"
0:06:38 > 0:06:44There was one event, actually, which I feel I should talk about.
0:06:45 > 0:06:49Erm, I had a Christian friend.
0:06:49 > 0:06:55After the Anschluss, I suddenly saw him in the Untere Augartenstrasse
0:06:55 > 0:06:58in a Hitlerjugend's uniform.
0:06:59 > 0:07:03And I saw him walking on the other side of the street
0:07:03 > 0:07:06and I shouted,
0:07:06 > 0:07:12"Kurtl, Kurtl, where are you going? Wo gehst du?"
0:07:13 > 0:07:17He looked at me and he continued walking.
0:07:19 > 0:07:24And this was the beginning of our life under the Nazis.
0:07:26 > 0:07:30HITLER SPEECH IN GERMAN
0:07:32 > 0:07:36- TRANSLATION:- Let our vow tonight be that every hour on every day
0:07:36 > 0:07:41to think only of the people of the Reich and of the German nation.
0:07:47 > 0:07:49- ALL:- Sieg heil.
0:07:49 > 0:07:52Sieg heil. Sieg heil.
0:07:52 > 0:07:56CROWD CHEERS
0:08:07 > 0:08:13One day, I suddenly saw smoke coming out in the next street
0:08:13 > 0:08:16where our synagogue was, the polnische Tempel.
0:08:17 > 0:08:21Right away, I saw fire engines coming
0:08:21 > 0:08:26but the Nazis in brown uniform wouldn't allow them to spray water
0:08:26 > 0:08:29onto the synagogue, but they were only allowed to spray water
0:08:29 > 0:08:33on the buildings adjoining the synagogue.
0:08:33 > 0:08:38And when I came home and I told my parents what I've seen,
0:08:38 > 0:08:42my father said, "You children, you cannot possibly live in a country
0:08:42 > 0:08:46"where these things are happening. This is not for you.
0:08:46 > 0:08:49"You have to live in different countries."
0:08:52 > 0:08:56Then my oldest brother Otto was able to get himself a boat
0:08:56 > 0:08:58to take him to England
0:08:58 > 0:09:01and my brother Erich left for Florida.
0:09:03 > 0:09:09I really felt, "Well, he's a lucky guy to go to America."
0:09:09 > 0:09:10SHIP'S HORN BLARES
0:09:13 > 0:09:17I was the youngest and my father said to me,
0:09:17 > 0:09:20"Look, we have some friends in Belgium,"
0:09:20 > 0:09:23and he phoned these friends
0:09:23 > 0:09:28and ask them, "Can I send our youngest boy, Freddie, over to you?"
0:09:28 > 0:09:29And naturally they said,
0:09:29 > 0:09:32"By all means, send Freddie over. We'll take care of him."
0:09:34 > 0:09:39Before I left, I cuddled and kissed my mother
0:09:39 > 0:09:41and I was crying.
0:09:41 > 0:09:42TRAIN BELL RINGS
0:09:47 > 0:09:49WHISTLE BLOWS
0:09:53 > 0:09:57I had that fear to go into a different country
0:09:57 > 0:10:00not knowing what is going to happen...
0:10:02 > 0:10:06..going into a place where I have to make my own decisions all the time
0:10:06 > 0:10:09rather than being told by my father what to do.
0:10:34 > 0:10:39What actually happened, because so many refugees went into Belgium,
0:10:39 > 0:10:45the Belgium government created refugee camps and I was put into
0:10:45 > 0:10:49a refugee camp for children my own age,
0:10:49 > 0:10:51Jewish children.
0:10:53 > 0:10:56I must say it felt a little bit like a holiday for me.
0:10:59 > 0:11:02In that camp, we had an orchestra.
0:11:03 > 0:11:07My father sent me my cello
0:11:07 > 0:11:12and for me to have my cello again
0:11:12 > 0:11:15was something so wonderful
0:11:15 > 0:11:18because this was part of my home
0:11:18 > 0:11:22with my parents, with my brothers.
0:11:24 > 0:11:30It brought back my memories from a wonderful time which I had at home.
0:11:41 > 0:11:42RADIO PIPS
0:11:50 > 0:11:52- NEWSREEL:- This is the national programme from London.
0:11:52 > 0:11:56Please stand by for a very important announcement.
0:11:56 > 0:12:00Germany has invaded Poland and has bombed many towns.
0:12:00 > 0:12:04- WINSTON CHURCHILL:- I have to tell you now that no such undertaking
0:12:04 > 0:12:08has been received and that, consequently,
0:12:08 > 0:12:12this country is at war with Germany.
0:12:12 > 0:12:14- AMERICAN NEWSREEL:- The leaders of Nazi Germany shifted
0:12:14 > 0:12:18their war machine into high gear.
0:12:18 > 0:12:19On May 10th, 1940, they blitzed
0:12:19 > 0:12:21into Holland and Belgium.
0:12:29 > 0:12:32There we were again under the Nazis.
0:12:32 > 0:12:34What are we going to do now?
0:12:35 > 0:12:39I, who spoke a bit of French,
0:12:39 > 0:12:43I decided I wanted to go to France...
0:12:45 > 0:12:49..because I read in these naughty books all about Paris,
0:12:49 > 0:12:50about Montmartre,
0:12:50 > 0:12:54about the Moulin Rouge with the half-naked dancers on the stage
0:12:54 > 0:12:57and this is where I wanted to go.
0:12:57 > 0:13:01So I made my way together with two other boys,
0:13:01 > 0:13:04who also spoke a bit of French, towards the French border.
0:13:06 > 0:13:12But I couldn't go with much luggage and I left the cello in the camp.
0:13:17 > 0:13:20- NEWSREEL:- The Nazis are marching ahead at the fastest speed
0:13:20 > 0:13:22a conquering army has moved in all history.
0:13:22 > 0:13:25All roads in France are choked with slow-moving masses of refugees.
0:13:30 > 0:13:33The roads were full with people just walking,
0:13:33 > 0:13:36some with cars and some with bicycles.
0:13:38 > 0:13:43And, while we were walking, actually, suddenly planes came,
0:13:43 > 0:13:48German planes came, and started to shoot at us.
0:13:52 > 0:13:57Some people jumped into the ditches to get away from it.
0:13:58 > 0:14:03Lied down on the ground, shivering,
0:14:03 > 0:14:06you know, erm, afraid,
0:14:06 > 0:14:09hoping that nothing will happen to me.
0:14:16 > 0:14:18Everybody just screaming
0:14:18 > 0:14:24and mothers shouting to their children and children screaming.
0:14:24 > 0:14:27It was a terrible situation. It was a...
0:14:28 > 0:14:33Together with the gunshots from the aeroplanes, it was terrible.
0:14:38 > 0:14:41I was there together with two other friends of mine.
0:14:41 > 0:14:47We both, all three of us, we approached the French border
0:14:47 > 0:14:52and in French I said, "Moi, je veux rentrer en France
0:14:52 > 0:14:55"parce'que je ne pas rester avec Monsieur Hitler."
0:14:55 > 0:14:57"I want to go into France
0:14:57 > 0:15:00"because I don't want to stay with Mr Hitler in Germany."
0:15:02 > 0:15:06So they asked me for my passport.
0:15:06 > 0:15:10The Germans put on the front page of each passport,
0:15:10 > 0:15:14they put a big red 'J' on it
0:15:14 > 0:15:17to indicate that the owner of the passport is a Jew.
0:15:19 > 0:15:24But as soon as they saw the German passport with stamps
0:15:24 > 0:15:28with the swastika on it, right away they couldn't care less
0:15:28 > 0:15:31whether I was a Jew or not, it was a German passport.
0:15:31 > 0:15:36They arrested me and my two friends as an enemy alien.
0:15:53 > 0:15:56- NEWSREEL:- The first block now on June 5th.
0:15:56 > 0:15:59The French Resistance was determined but by June 8th, the left flank army
0:15:59 > 0:16:04had been shattered and on June 9th the German main attack came.
0:16:04 > 0:16:08Within two days, the German armoured and motorised divisions
0:16:08 > 0:16:10roared out into the open terrain.
0:16:10 > 0:16:15With this breakthrough, the issue of the Battle of France was decided.
0:16:18 > 0:16:22Immediately, the real German Nazis were released from the camp
0:16:22 > 0:16:25and only Jewish people stayed there.
0:16:27 > 0:16:31The problem was, because of the little food that we had
0:16:31 > 0:16:34and no washing facilities there,
0:16:34 > 0:16:39people became ill and started to die of cholera.
0:16:39 > 0:16:43And when the two friends who came with me to the camp
0:16:43 > 0:16:46also contracted cholera,
0:16:46 > 0:16:50I said to myself, "I don't want to die. I've got to get out of there."
0:16:50 > 0:16:55And I went at night-time to the barbed wire
0:16:55 > 0:16:59and I dug myself underneath the barbed wire
0:16:59 > 0:17:02and escaped from that camp.
0:17:20 > 0:17:25I made my way to meet my cousins in Gaillac.
0:17:27 > 0:17:34It was actually a big farming community and as it was harvest-time,
0:17:34 > 0:17:37the farmers needed help to take the harvest in.
0:17:40 > 0:17:44They paid us very well and we worked very hard,
0:17:44 > 0:17:49but I wasn't very happy really.
0:17:56 > 0:18:02My plan was to go and find my own cello,
0:18:02 > 0:18:05which I missed very much,
0:18:05 > 0:18:09because the cello was part of my former life
0:18:09 > 0:18:11with my family in Vienna.
0:18:14 > 0:18:20Being the way I am, I did what I wanted to do.
0:18:20 > 0:18:23When I saved up 100 francs,
0:18:23 > 0:18:27I got myself some false identification papers.
0:18:27 > 0:18:30So I became a Frenchman.
0:18:30 > 0:18:35With 100 francs, I became Robert Metzner from Alsace-Lorraine.
0:18:38 > 0:18:43My cousins were absolutely against it.
0:18:43 > 0:18:46"Why do you want to go to Belgium again,
0:18:46 > 0:18:49"which is occupied by the Germans?
0:18:49 > 0:18:53"You are absolutely meshuga. You're mad."
0:18:53 > 0:18:57Yeah, that was the Jewish word for being mad.
0:19:01 > 0:19:07With these false papers, I made my way through the demarcation line
0:19:07 > 0:19:08back to Belgium.
0:19:14 > 0:19:17I went to our refugee camp
0:19:17 > 0:19:24but the place was completely empty, um...
0:19:24 > 0:19:27and nobody was there.
0:19:27 > 0:19:30I went through the barracks where we lived
0:19:30 > 0:19:33and I couldn't find any cello.
0:19:33 > 0:19:36I didn't know what I should do.
0:19:41 > 0:19:46But I think within myself,
0:19:46 > 0:19:49I became quite cocky
0:19:49 > 0:19:55and self-assured with these false documents,
0:19:55 > 0:19:59which I can do whatever I want.
0:19:59 > 0:20:01"I am not a Jew.
0:20:01 > 0:20:06"I am Robert Metzner from Alsace-Lorraine
0:20:06 > 0:20:10"and I want to go to Paris!" - that simple.
0:20:10 > 0:20:12MUSIC: Paris Sera Toujours Paris by Maurice Chevalier
0:20:12 > 0:20:16# Paris sera toujours Paris
0:20:16 > 0:20:19# La plus belle ville du monde
0:20:19 > 0:20:23# Malgre l'obscurite profonde
0:20:23 > 0:20:26# Son eclat ne peut etre assombri. #
0:20:26 > 0:20:30- AMERICAN NEWSREEL:- Paris, two short syllables but what a word it is.
0:20:30 > 0:20:33Capital of France and the centre of French national life,
0:20:33 > 0:20:37it is regarded by many as the most beautiful city in all the world.
0:20:37 > 0:20:40So let's open wide the gates that we too may see the sights
0:20:40 > 0:20:43and thrill to their fascination.
0:20:46 > 0:20:48Arriving at the Gare du Nord,
0:20:48 > 0:20:50it was just incredible.
0:20:50 > 0:20:53The place was full of German soldiers.
0:20:55 > 0:20:58Then I saw a big sign there - Metro -
0:20:58 > 0:21:01and I went towards that sign
0:21:01 > 0:21:05and I saw the map of Paris there
0:21:05 > 0:21:08and I saw Place Pigalle.
0:21:10 > 0:21:15I took the underground, got out at Place Pigalle.
0:21:15 > 0:21:16I was fascinated.
0:21:16 > 0:21:21This was the naughty district of Paris which I read so much about.
0:21:23 > 0:21:25# Menilmontant
0:21:25 > 0:21:27# Mais oui, madame
0:21:28 > 0:21:32# C'est la que j'ai laisse mon coeur... #
0:21:33 > 0:21:36I was standing in front of the Folies Bergere,
0:21:36 > 0:21:38which was in Montmartre,
0:21:38 > 0:21:44and I saw these photos with the half-naked dancers on the stage there
0:21:44 > 0:21:46and I enjoyed myself.
0:21:46 > 0:21:48# ..petite eglises
0:21:50 > 0:21:54# Ou les mariages allaient gaiement
0:21:55 > 0:21:59# Quand je revois ma vieille maison grise
0:21:59 > 0:22:04# Meme la grise parle d'antan. #
0:22:05 > 0:22:09One day, I saw a Mediterranean-looking fellow
0:22:09 > 0:22:16talking to a group of German soldiers and I heard him say he was Cristos.
0:22:16 > 0:22:18In German, he was telling him,
0:22:18 > 0:22:22"Come with me, I will show you beautiful sights of Paris
0:22:22 > 0:22:25"and to a beautiful place where lots of girls are there.
0:22:25 > 0:22:30"You will have lots of fun and I saw them entering into a nightclub."
0:22:32 > 0:22:37When I approached Cristos, I said to him, "Look here, I also speak German.
0:22:37 > 0:22:41"I heard you talking to the German soldiers.
0:22:41 > 0:22:44"Between you and me, I'm a little bit broke.
0:22:44 > 0:22:47"Is there any possibility for me to join you
0:22:47 > 0:22:50"and can we make a living?"
0:22:50 > 0:22:55He said to me, "If you want to join me, I will introduce you to these
0:22:55 > 0:23:01"nightclubs and whenever you take German soldiers into these places,
0:23:01 > 0:23:04"they will pay commission for taking you there."
0:23:04 > 0:23:08I said, "Oh, I would love to do that,"
0:23:08 > 0:23:13and we made an appointment for the next day to meet at Place Pigalle.
0:23:16 > 0:23:18- BRITISH NEWSREEL: - Up with the curtain,
0:23:18 > 0:23:20when Paris dances she lets herself go.
0:23:20 > 0:23:23Ring-a-Ring-o-Roses is grand fun.
0:23:23 > 0:23:25Would any of you boys like to join in?
0:23:36 > 0:23:38# La musique negre et le jazz hot
0:23:38 > 0:23:39# Sont deja de vieilles machines
0:23:39 > 0:23:41# Maintenant pour etre dans la note
0:23:41 > 0:23:43# Il faut du swing... #
0:23:43 > 0:23:47Cristos introduced me to the music,
0:23:47 > 0:23:51the dancers, jazz, which he loved.
0:23:54 > 0:23:59I enjoyed doing the work that I was doing with the Germans.
0:23:59 > 0:24:03It was an adventure for me to take them to the cabarets
0:24:03 > 0:24:05and the brothels.
0:24:08 > 0:24:12I met a lot of lovely people,
0:24:12 > 0:24:14interesting people, actually.
0:24:14 > 0:24:18I don't mean the German soldiers but the girls in the cabarets
0:24:18 > 0:24:21and the people that I met with them,
0:24:21 > 0:24:25the owners of the brothels, which I became very friendly with.
0:24:26 > 0:24:30You know, half-naked dancers, all the girls, and I enjoyed
0:24:30 > 0:24:35looking at it and enjoyed the music and it was very pleasant.
0:24:38 > 0:24:43I must say we did earn quite a lot of money, actually, from these places.
0:24:46 > 0:24:52In reality, I was really a pimp, but I didn't consider myself, er...
0:24:52 > 0:24:57that this is a situation which I should be ashamed of
0:24:57 > 0:25:00because, somehow, it saved my life what I did.
0:25:18 > 0:25:22One day, I was standing on Place Pigalle
0:25:22 > 0:25:27and I saw two civilians coming towards me.
0:25:28 > 0:25:33Each one had a hat on and long black leather coat on
0:25:33 > 0:25:36and I recognised them immediately.
0:25:36 > 0:25:38These must be two people from the Gestapo.
0:25:40 > 0:25:43And they asked me in French,
0:25:43 > 0:25:44"Qu'est-ce que vous faites ici
0:25:44 > 0:25:47"de parler avec les soldats allemands?"
0:25:47 > 0:25:51"What are you doing here to talk to German soldiers all the time?"
0:25:52 > 0:25:55So I answered them in German.
0:25:55 > 0:25:59I said, "Oh, but I'm a guide. I'm a guide.
0:25:59 > 0:26:05"I show these soldiers, who maybe come from the Russian front, I show
0:26:05 > 0:26:10"them the beautiful sights of Paris, because they do not know Paris."
0:26:11 > 0:26:18Immediately they took me in their car to Gestapo headquarters
0:26:18 > 0:26:20and they started interrogating me.
0:26:25 > 0:26:28Their office was a large room.
0:26:28 > 0:26:33There was a big picture on the wall behind them which was Adolf Hitler.
0:26:44 > 0:26:48The first question was, "Show me your papers."
0:26:48 > 0:26:52I showed them my papers and, while he was talking,
0:26:52 > 0:26:58I saw on his desk a plaster head of a human being...
0:26:59 > 0:27:01..and he saw me looking at it.
0:27:01 > 0:27:05He said, "Oh, this plaster head, that's a head of a Jew
0:27:05 > 0:27:11"because we were taught how to recognise Jews
0:27:11 > 0:27:14"by the structure of the head."
0:27:14 > 0:27:19With that, he got up from his desk, went behind me
0:27:19 > 0:27:23and he took my head between his two hands, tracing it.
0:27:24 > 0:27:26He said, "Oh, yes."
0:27:26 > 0:27:32I must say that I'm not ashamed to say, I wet my pants
0:27:32 > 0:27:37because I was so sure that I will now be recognised as a Jew.
0:27:37 > 0:27:42He said, "Oh, yes, oh, yes, I can see, I can see.
0:27:42 > 0:27:46"Yes, I can see you come from good German background
0:27:46 > 0:27:52"and I think you should be joining our organisation as an interpreter.
0:27:52 > 0:27:55"You will be earning a lot of money
0:27:55 > 0:27:59"and finally you will be working with your own people."
0:27:59 > 0:28:04Well, I felt so amazed, laughing,
0:28:04 > 0:28:07not... more or less laughing of myself,
0:28:07 > 0:28:12said, "Wow, what an adventure did... to be able to get away
0:28:12 > 0:28:16"from the Gestapo and they want me to work with them!"
0:28:18 > 0:28:20Merci beaucoup.
0:28:20 > 0:28:26'It never entered my mind to accept the offer because to be
0:28:26 > 0:28:31'working with the Gestapo would have been so dangerous for me.
0:28:40 > 0:28:44'I went back to my friend Cristos on Place Pigalle
0:28:44 > 0:28:47and I said to him, "Look, I cannot work here any more
0:28:47 > 0:28:51"because if they see me... they will just arrest me
0:28:51 > 0:28:54"and deport me to a concentration camp."
0:28:54 > 0:28:56He said, "Leave it with me, I have some ideas."
0:28:56 > 0:29:01I went home and two days later Cristos introduced me
0:29:01 > 0:29:04to a leader of the French Resistance.
0:29:26 > 0:29:32The Resistance leader took me from Paris to a place called Figeac.
0:29:33 > 0:29:37It is a town, a beautiful town, actually,
0:29:37 > 0:29:42surrounded by very high mountains,
0:29:42 > 0:29:48and in the mountains the Resistance groups were hiding.
0:29:50 > 0:29:53We were really taught how to use guns.
0:29:53 > 0:29:57We were taught how to put explosives together
0:29:57 > 0:30:02and to do the things that I've never done in my life before.
0:30:04 > 0:30:09It was...a great joy for me
0:30:09 > 0:30:14to fight my enemies, instead of earning money from them.
0:30:16 > 0:30:18RADIO: 'Ici Londres.
0:30:18 > 0:30:22'Veuillez ecouter tout d'abord quelques messages personelles.
0:30:22 > 0:30:24'L'etoile filante repassera...'
0:30:24 > 0:30:31One day, we were told early in the morning to go together
0:30:31 > 0:30:34to derail this troops train.
0:30:37 > 0:30:40Our leader told us that the train should be arriving
0:30:40 > 0:30:44somewhere around eleven, eleven-thirty in the morning.
0:30:48 > 0:30:51And he made sure that
0:30:51 > 0:30:56whenever we put explosives onto the railway line,
0:30:56 > 0:31:02we hide it with leaves, grass coming out
0:31:02 > 0:31:05so that it shouldn't be noticed immediately.
0:31:10 > 0:31:15Then he told us that we should go and observe,
0:31:15 > 0:31:19but quite far away, what is going to happen up in the hills.
0:31:22 > 0:31:25The train came.
0:31:28 > 0:31:30We heard the explosion.
0:31:30 > 0:31:35We saw the first engine topple over on the side
0:31:35 > 0:31:39and the whole thing just collapsed itself.
0:31:39 > 0:31:44But we run away immediately back to our Resistance group.
0:31:44 > 0:31:47I must say, it was wonderful.
0:31:47 > 0:31:52I enjoyed this day...wonderfully.
0:32:00 > 0:32:04I went to a certain bistro in Figeac.
0:32:05 > 0:32:10I was beautifully received there by the owner of the bistro
0:32:10 > 0:32:12and I became quite friends with them.
0:32:12 > 0:32:17He actually introduced me to a lovely, beautiful girl,
0:32:17 > 0:32:20a French girl called Jacqueline.
0:32:20 > 0:32:26I fell in love with her because she was a very, very pretty girl
0:32:26 > 0:32:29and, you know, I always love pretty girls.
0:32:31 > 0:32:36Full hair, very buxomy, they say, yeah?
0:32:36 > 0:32:42Erm, and, erm, she was always smiling
0:32:42 > 0:32:46and laughing and making jokes.
0:32:48 > 0:32:53It was a very, very close relationship and especially
0:32:53 > 0:32:56when we started to make love to each other,
0:32:56 > 0:33:00it became even stronger, our relationship.
0:33:05 > 0:33:08I really trusted Jacqueline
0:33:08 > 0:33:13and on a weak moment I said to her,
0:33:13 > 0:33:16"I trust you to know that
0:33:16 > 0:33:20"I'm really working for the Resistance group up in the hills."
0:33:20 > 0:33:25And, um, she was quite happy to hear about it.
0:33:25 > 0:33:30She told me she doesn't like the Nazis being in France
0:33:30 > 0:33:31but I was a fool
0:33:31 > 0:33:36because I should never have given away what I was doing.
0:33:39 > 0:33:44In spite of the good relationship that we had,
0:33:44 > 0:33:48sometimes...we had arguments
0:33:48 > 0:33:50because I became jealous
0:33:50 > 0:33:54that she was having another affair with other man.
0:33:56 > 0:34:01I wanted to know more really what she was doing, so I said,
0:34:01 > 0:34:03"Come on, tell me about it."
0:34:03 > 0:34:08"No, this is my own business and I'm not going to talk about it."
0:34:09 > 0:34:13I...was fed up with her. I was...
0:34:13 > 0:34:17It was a moment when I shouted to her,
0:34:17 > 0:34:19"Jacqueline, just go your own way.
0:34:19 > 0:34:22"I don't want to have anything to do with you,"
0:34:22 > 0:34:25and she went and smacked my face and run away.
0:34:29 > 0:34:33I should not have really broken off with her
0:34:33 > 0:34:36because the risk of exposure was so great.
0:34:36 > 0:34:40So I decided to go the next day
0:34:40 > 0:34:43back to that bistro where we usually meet
0:34:43 > 0:34:47and, um, hoping to find her,
0:34:47 > 0:34:53or maybe apologise to her what has happened the day before.
0:34:53 > 0:34:58Jacqueline wasn't there but the French gendarmes,
0:34:58 > 0:35:02two gendarmes were waiting for me, arrested me,
0:35:02 > 0:35:06took me to their office and they started interrogating me.
0:35:06 > 0:35:11They wanted to know all about my Resistance group
0:35:11 > 0:35:15and I knew immediately Jacqueline must have told them that.
0:35:24 > 0:35:30Naturally, I would not say anything against my friends
0:35:30 > 0:35:33in the Resistance.
0:35:33 > 0:35:38These were people who were fighting the enemies, like I was fighting
0:35:38 > 0:35:43the enemies, and when they saw I wouldn't talk about it, they started
0:35:43 > 0:35:49to hitting me, smashing in my face, blood all over me to make me talk.
0:35:53 > 0:35:56They even burned my body with the cigarettes,
0:35:56 > 0:35:58torturing me to make me talk.
0:35:58 > 0:36:02It was so painful. When I couldn't stand it any more, I said,
0:36:02 > 0:36:04"Stop, I will tell you the truth."
0:36:12 > 0:36:16"The truth is I've nothing to do with any Resistance group
0:36:16 > 0:36:21"but the truth is that my name is not Robert Metzner
0:36:21 > 0:36:23"from Alsace-Lorraine.
0:36:23 > 0:36:25"This is a false papers.
0:36:25 > 0:36:27"But in reality I'm Freddie Knoller,
0:36:27 > 0:36:31"a Jew from Vienna hiding up there in the hills."
0:37:02 > 0:37:07I remember a big empty courtyard...
0:37:09 > 0:37:12..surrounded by block of flats.
0:37:18 > 0:37:22This is quite amazing because it... they haven't changed at all,
0:37:22 > 0:37:27the buildings, but it was a square without trees
0:37:27 > 0:37:31and we were hundreds and thousands of people around here.
0:37:34 > 0:37:38We slept in these abandoned blocks.
0:37:42 > 0:37:45We knew that we were going in the east somewhere.
0:37:46 > 0:37:50Nobody knew exactly where we are going
0:37:50 > 0:37:54so the children invented a name - Pitchipoi.
0:37:54 > 0:37:57"Oh, we're all going to Pitchipoi."
0:38:03 > 0:38:09And every transport from Drancy were exactly 1,000 people -
0:38:09 > 0:38:14men, women, children, all together taken in cattle wagons.
0:38:18 > 0:38:25Whenever the list of deportation to the east was displayed...
0:38:25 > 0:38:32we all tried to run towards the building where the list was displayed
0:38:32 > 0:38:35and trying to see who is actually going.
0:38:39 > 0:38:43The 6th October, the list came up and...
0:38:43 > 0:38:46my name came up.
0:39:04 > 0:39:09I became a friend in Drancy with a French doctor,
0:39:09 > 0:39:11Dr Robert Waitz
0:39:11 > 0:39:14and he went with me into that wagon.
0:39:24 > 0:39:28We were squeezed in like sardines.
0:39:28 > 0:39:33It was impossible to be comfortable there
0:39:33 > 0:39:35or even sit down.
0:39:39 > 0:39:41My friend, Dr Robert Waitz, said,
0:39:41 > 0:39:45"Look here, we don't know how long we are going to be in the train.
0:39:45 > 0:39:49"Let's organise making sure that we survive it properly,"
0:39:49 > 0:39:55and he said, "Why don't we give the women and the old people a seat
0:39:55 > 0:40:00"so they can lean against the wall of the wagon?"
0:40:00 > 0:40:01And then he says,
0:40:01 > 0:40:04"We young people, half of us will sit on the floor
0:40:04 > 0:40:10"and half...half of us will stand and every four hours we change,"
0:40:10 > 0:40:14and this is how we survived a journey
0:40:14 > 0:40:17which I will never, never forget.
0:40:19 > 0:40:21People, women, had to empty themselves
0:40:21 > 0:40:23in front of everybody.
0:40:24 > 0:40:27The crying of the children,
0:40:27 > 0:40:32the...the hunger that we felt of not being able to get any food
0:40:32 > 0:40:38whatsoever, this was the situation on our transport to the east.
0:40:46 > 0:40:48Finally the train stopped...
0:40:49 > 0:40:55..the doors opened up and we saw SS in uniform.
0:40:56 > 0:41:01They all had dogs on their lead and whips in their hands
0:41:01 > 0:41:05and the loudspeaker was coming out,
0:41:05 > 0:41:09telling us, "You are here in Auschwitz concentration camp
0:41:09 > 0:41:13"and we want the young men
0:41:13 > 0:41:18"who are able to walk to the camp
0:41:18 > 0:41:20"to line up in rows of five."
0:41:27 > 0:41:34When we arrived, we saw prisoners in pyjama-like striped uniforms.
0:41:39 > 0:41:43And we even heard music coming from an orchestra
0:41:43 > 0:41:50and we had to march with the rhythm of that music to a building.
0:41:50 > 0:41:53We had to undress completely
0:41:53 > 0:41:56and we were given our uniform to put on.
0:42:00 > 0:42:04Some people were saying, asking the old prisoners,
0:42:04 > 0:42:08and said, "Tell me, we only see men here.
0:42:08 > 0:42:10"What happened to our families?"
0:42:10 > 0:42:16Apparently, the old prisoners were telling the...the...the people,
0:42:16 > 0:42:18said, "You don't ever ask that question
0:42:18 > 0:42:22"because you will never, ever see the women again.
0:42:24 > 0:42:29"Quite soon you will smell the sweet smell in the air
0:42:29 > 0:42:31"when the bodies are being burned."
0:42:34 > 0:42:39We actually didn't believe what they were saying because Germany was...
0:42:39 > 0:42:45in fact, was a cultured country, to a certain extent, in our minds.
0:42:49 > 0:42:52But, um, quite soon afterwards, we smelt that sweet smell
0:42:52 > 0:42:55coming from Birkenau, all right,
0:42:55 > 0:42:58to show that it was really true what they were saying,
0:42:58 > 0:43:04that they were cremating the bodies of their relatives.
0:43:20 > 0:43:22Then we went for registration.
0:43:28 > 0:43:32I gave them the name of my parents.
0:43:32 > 0:43:34I gave them the address where we lived in Vienna.
0:43:36 > 0:43:39Each one of us was given...
0:43:40 > 0:43:42..a number.
0:43:42 > 0:43:45They put down a number and they said to us,
0:43:45 > 0:43:49"You will be now tattooed on your forearm with a number."
0:43:52 > 0:43:56And my number was 157108.
0:43:56 > 0:44:00And they said, "You will never be called by your name any more,
0:44:00 > 0:44:04"but when they call your number, you will have to answer."
0:44:04 > 0:44:10And I realised at that moment that we are not any more human beings
0:44:10 > 0:44:12but we are really a number.
0:44:30 > 0:44:36The first job that I was given was to carry 25-kilo cement bags
0:44:36 > 0:44:38on my shoulder -
0:44:38 > 0:44:43which we had to take out from a wagon, a railway wagon -
0:44:43 > 0:44:46cement bags on our shoulder
0:44:46 > 0:44:52and we had to take it to a building and then emptying it.
0:44:52 > 0:44:57But we were not allowed just to walk with these 25 kilos -
0:44:57 > 0:45:01they forced us to run with these 25 kilos
0:45:01 > 0:45:04and if we didn't run fast enough, we were whipped.
0:45:09 > 0:45:12From time to time,
0:45:12 > 0:45:18we told to line up in front of the SS...
0:45:19 > 0:45:24..and told to walk
0:45:24 > 0:45:28and there the SS either said to us,
0:45:28 > 0:45:30"Go left," or, "Go right."
0:45:33 > 0:45:37I put my chest out and I smiled at him
0:45:37 > 0:45:39and more or less to say,
0:45:39 > 0:45:43"I'm OK, I'm OK for continue working,"
0:45:43 > 0:45:47and this is what I did, er, when I walked in front.
0:45:47 > 0:45:50I wasn't meek at all about it
0:45:50 > 0:45:54because I knew if we were ever taken on the left-hand side,
0:45:54 > 0:45:56they would gas us.
0:46:03 > 0:46:06- NEWSREEL:- 'Little by little, the Nazis were reaching
0:46:06 > 0:46:08'what they called "the Final Solution" -
0:46:08 > 0:46:10'the total extermination of the Jews of Europe.
0:46:12 > 0:46:15'It took from three to 15 minutes to kill the people in the death chamber
0:46:15 > 0:46:19'depending on climatic conditions.
0:46:19 > 0:46:22'We knew when the people were dead because their screaming stopped.'
0:46:26 > 0:46:31Sometimes when I knew that somebody was hiding a piece of bread
0:46:31 > 0:46:35underneath their mattress, maybe to eat it later on,
0:46:35 > 0:46:39and I saw that he was hiding that piece of bread,
0:46:39 > 0:46:42um, I...
0:46:42 > 0:46:49ashamed to say that I did go to the mattress,
0:46:49 > 0:46:54I took out the bread when he wasn't there and I took it away from him.
0:46:58 > 0:47:03You only think of yourself, not of others - don't look around
0:47:03 > 0:47:07and feel what others are suffering.
0:47:07 > 0:47:10You have to become selfish and you
0:47:10 > 0:47:14become a completely different person as you were maybe in the past.
0:47:16 > 0:47:23It was a selfishness which today I am ashamed of,
0:47:23 > 0:47:28but by the time when I did it there was no shame.
0:47:28 > 0:47:32It was only...my only thought - "I've got to survive."
0:47:49 > 0:47:54One day, in the evening, I saw my friend Dr Robert Waitz
0:47:54 > 0:47:56in the camp and he said,
0:47:56 > 0:48:01"Oh, Freddie, how are you? What you doing?"
0:48:01 > 0:48:04So I told him what I'm... what I was doing and I said,
0:48:04 > 0:48:07"Look here, you will not see me in two weeks' time,
0:48:07 > 0:48:09because I'll be dead."
0:48:10 > 0:48:12He said, "Because I'm a doctor,
0:48:12 > 0:48:15"they put me in charge of the hospital of Auschwitz.
0:48:15 > 0:48:18"I will try to find extra food for you."
0:48:23 > 0:48:27But he also got me out of that cement Kommando
0:48:27 > 0:48:31and into a easier Kommando
0:48:31 > 0:48:36where my job was sweeping in a building,
0:48:36 > 0:48:39an empty building, sweeping the floor
0:48:39 > 0:48:45and I must say it was so easy to be in the walls
0:48:45 > 0:48:49in a...in a building rather than carrying the cement bags
0:48:49 > 0:48:52outside in the open air in winter
0:48:52 > 0:48:57when it was minus 20-25 degrees temperature.
0:48:57 > 0:49:00It was a life-saver.
0:49:02 > 0:49:06'And I know that I'm alive today
0:49:06 > 0:49:11'because of that wonderful, er, help I received from Dr Robert Waitz.'
0:49:20 > 0:49:22- NEWSREEL:- 'This is the BBC Home Service.
0:49:22 > 0:49:24'Here is a special bulletin read by John Snagge.
0:49:26 > 0:49:27'D-Day has come.
0:49:27 > 0:49:30'Early this morning, the Allies began the assault
0:49:30 > 0:49:33'on the northwestern face of Hitler's European fortress.'
0:49:33 > 0:49:34BOMBS WHISTLE
0:49:41 > 0:49:43'During the fifth year of this war,
0:49:43 > 0:49:47'the German invaders have been driven headlong from Russian soil.
0:49:47 > 0:49:50'As her armies keep on westward, they know that the Germans
0:49:50 > 0:49:54'fight now only to gain time to stave off inevitable defeat
0:49:54 > 0:49:55'at the hands of the Allies.'
0:50:12 > 0:50:15It was bitter, bitter cold.
0:50:18 > 0:50:23We were told that we're going to march to a town called Gleiwitz,
0:50:23 > 0:50:2550 kilometres away.
0:50:27 > 0:50:34We walked on that big road on ice and snow and some people just
0:50:34 > 0:50:39collapsed of the freezing cold in our thin clothes.
0:50:40 > 0:50:44As soon as people could not walk any more,
0:50:44 > 0:50:47the Germans, who surrounded us, shot them.
0:50:51 > 0:50:54Some people run away into the woods -
0:50:54 > 0:50:56the Germans kill them.
0:51:02 > 0:51:05All who were able to walk still,
0:51:05 > 0:51:09we walked as fast as we could in order to remain alive.
0:51:11 > 0:51:16I walked and walked without caring what happened to anybody else.
0:51:16 > 0:51:20We saw people being killed but it didn't affect me.
0:51:20 > 0:51:24This was just one of the thing -
0:51:24 > 0:51:26"I am still walking and I'm still alive" -
0:51:26 > 0:51:29that's the only thought that I had.
0:51:39 > 0:51:43After Gleiwitz, we were taken to a railway station
0:51:43 > 0:51:49and we were put into these open carriages by the...by the Germans
0:51:49 > 0:51:52and we were taken to the next camp.
0:51:54 > 0:52:00Er, so many people actually died on the train
0:52:00 > 0:52:05and we were quite happy actually to throw them out from the train
0:52:05 > 0:52:09because we wanted to have more room to be able to move
0:52:09 > 0:52:13because we were so squeezed together there.
0:52:17 > 0:52:19We passed Vienna, we saw the Prater
0:52:19 > 0:52:23and right away my thoughts were, "What happened to my parents?"
0:52:25 > 0:52:28It was over six years that I didn't see my parents.
0:52:32 > 0:52:37My feeling was, "Will...will I find them live...alive again?"
0:52:45 > 0:52:49- NEWSREEL:- 'Tonight, we're attacking the retreating German army,
0:52:49 > 0:52:51'streaming back into Cologne from the west
0:52:51 > 0:52:53'and hoping to cross the Rhine.'
0:52:57 > 0:53:00'We're circling round now, watching the inferno below us
0:53:00 > 0:53:01'and silhouetted against it,
0:53:01 > 0:53:04'the Lancasters and the Halifaxes making off
0:53:04 > 0:53:06'in the all-revealing light of the moon.'
0:53:14 > 0:53:17Bergen-Belsen - we arrived there
0:53:17 > 0:53:23beginning March 1945.
0:53:26 > 0:53:29We really didn't see any guards.
0:53:29 > 0:53:35They were there but they didn't come into the camp.
0:53:39 > 0:53:43No food was given to us at all,
0:53:43 > 0:53:50I...I remember digging into the ground to get hold of some roots,
0:53:50 > 0:53:54something to eat, because...
0:53:56 > 0:53:59..I never, ever experienced
0:53:59 > 0:54:02a hunger so strong.
0:54:02 > 0:54:10It hurt my...my stomach and my body hurt me from the hunger that we had.
0:54:16 > 0:54:22I saw some young people coming to these bodies
0:54:22 > 0:54:24with sharp stones.
0:54:24 > 0:54:27They went to the bodies to...
0:54:27 > 0:54:30and cut up the flesh of these dead bodies
0:54:30 > 0:54:34and they were able to try to find a fire
0:54:34 > 0:54:39and to roast that flesh from these dead bodies.
0:54:39 > 0:54:42I don't know whether...
0:54:42 > 0:54:46I really don't know whether this was...immoral for me.
0:54:46 > 0:54:51I...I don't think so, but this is something I just couldn't do.
0:54:55 > 0:55:00'I am the officer commanding the regiment of Royal Artillery
0:55:00 > 0:55:01'guarding this camp.
0:55:01 > 0:55:06'Our most unpleasant task has been making the SS,
0:55:06 > 0:55:10'of which there are about 50, bury the dead.
0:55:11 > 0:55:15'Up to press, we've buried about 17,000 people...
0:55:17 > 0:55:20'..and we expect to bury about half as much again.
0:55:21 > 0:55:25'The officers and men regard this job...
0:55:26 > 0:55:29'..as a duty that has to be performed
0:55:29 > 0:55:31'and none of us are likely to forget
0:55:31 > 0:55:33'what the German people have done here.'
0:55:56 > 0:55:59'The British interviewed the prisoners,'
0:55:59 > 0:56:03asking their background and everything and I was asked,
0:56:03 > 0:56:05"Where would you like to go?"
0:56:05 > 0:56:08and naturally I told them, "I want to go to Vienna."
0:56:08 > 0:56:14Er, the officer said, "Vienna is occupied by the Russian troops
0:56:14 > 0:56:20"and we know that no Jews are any more living in Vienna,
0:56:20 > 0:56:22"so you better...
0:56:22 > 0:56:26"don't go to Vienna because you will not find your parents there."
0:56:27 > 0:56:29I only found out what happened
0:56:29 > 0:56:30to my parents
0:56:30 > 0:56:33until after 50 years
0:56:33 > 0:56:35of liberation of Auschwitz.
0:56:35 > 0:56:40In 1995, I was told that my parents
0:56:40 > 0:56:44were deported from Vienna in 1942...
0:56:45 > 0:56:48..and were gassed and cremated
0:56:48 > 0:56:52on 22nd November, 1944...
0:56:54 > 0:56:56..in Auschwitz.
0:56:58 > 0:57:00And I was there in Auschwitz
0:57:00 > 0:57:03but, naturally, I didn't know anything about it.
0:57:39 > 0:57:47'What I went through in my lifetime made me...believe in myself.
0:57:48 > 0:57:54I'm proud to have experienced what I've experienced and, er,
0:57:54 > 0:57:56I'm proud to have been...
0:57:58 > 0:58:01..er, to have fought for my life
0:58:01 > 0:58:07and proud to be able to tell the world what has happened.
0:58:09 > 0:58:10I'm...
0:58:10 > 0:58:13I'm a fantastic guy, I must say!
0:58:16 > 0:58:19I don't know! I shouldn't have said that.
0:58:22 > 0:58:24I'm very proud of myself!
0:58:29 > 0:58:32# Tombe du ciel
0:58:33 > 0:58:35# Je suis tombe du ciel
0:58:37 > 0:58:39# Destin providentiel
0:58:40 > 0:58:42# Car sur la terre
0:58:45 > 0:58:46# Tout est charmant
0:58:48 > 0:58:51# Surtout quand vient l'printemps
0:58:52 > 0:58:54# Et qu'on voit les etangs
0:58:55 > 0:58:57# Pleins de lumiere... #