Children Saved from the Nazis: The Story of Sir Nicholas Winton

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0:00:14 > 0:00:18Nicky's story came out by accident after this scrapbook surfaced

0:00:18 > 0:00:21after gathering dust for decades.

0:00:21 > 0:00:25Once it did, though, it set about a whole chain of incredible events.

0:00:27 > 0:00:30That's me before I left for England.

0:00:30 > 0:00:35But until 1988, I had no idea who had rescued me

0:00:35 > 0:00:38from all but certain death.

0:00:44 > 0:00:48It was this old man who had saved my life

0:00:48 > 0:00:52and that of hundreds of others in the Second World War.

0:00:54 > 0:00:59Yet for 50 years, we knew nothing about him.

0:00:59 > 0:01:01Not even that he existed.

0:01:03 > 0:01:06I think there is much too much harping in the past.

0:01:06 > 0:01:09Quite frankly, I can't see the point of all that.

0:01:09 > 0:01:11We've never learnt anything from the past.

0:01:11 > 0:01:15I think the future lies in forgetting the past,

0:01:15 > 0:01:16not remembering it.

0:01:24 > 0:01:27It started with Adolf Hitler instilling hatred

0:01:27 > 0:01:31in Germans from childhood up for everything he considered foreign.

0:01:31 > 0:01:36Most of all, for Jews, Gypsies and Slavs.

0:01:36 > 0:01:40And he used the hate he had whipped up to

0:01:40 > 0:01:42prepare his nation for war.

0:01:42 > 0:01:46HE SPEAKS GERMAN

0:01:46 > 0:01:51You could hear Hitler's voice raving on the radio and you could

0:01:51 > 0:01:56feel the danger getting closer and closer and closer.

0:02:00 > 0:02:03We were seven-year-old children in second grade.

0:02:03 > 0:02:07And one day, a girl comes up to me and slaps me on the face,

0:02:07 > 0:02:09left and right and left and right

0:02:09 > 0:02:13and she said, "My father told me to do that," so I was stunned.

0:02:13 > 0:02:16I was flabbergasted. How can she do that?

0:02:21 > 0:02:25I was only about four or five years old but I hit my head

0:02:25 > 0:02:28on a central heating radiator and I cut my head open

0:02:28 > 0:02:32and I remember my father taking me to the doctor

0:02:32 > 0:02:34and the doctor looked at it and he said,

0:02:34 > 0:02:40"Erm, that does need stitching but I don't stitch Jews."

0:02:42 > 0:02:46The hatred coming from Germany didn't just endanger Jews

0:02:46 > 0:02:48but also the Czechs as well.

0:02:49 > 0:02:53They turned out to protest Hitler's demands for a chunk of their country -

0:02:53 > 0:02:56the so-called Sudeten borderlands.

0:02:56 > 0:02:59CHILDREN SING

0:03:00 > 0:03:04The Czechs mobilised to defend themselves but they needed

0:03:04 > 0:03:06help from their allies in the West.

0:03:08 > 0:03:11Neither in Britain - nor for that matter in any other democracy -

0:03:11 > 0:03:15was there any great will to confront Hitler and risk war.

0:03:17 > 0:03:21So the British and French prime ministers went to Munich

0:03:21 > 0:03:26and ended up signing a humiliating deal with Hitler.

0:03:26 > 0:03:30The word Munich has ever since then stood for cowardly appeasement.

0:03:30 > 0:03:33At the time, though, when Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain

0:03:33 > 0:03:35returned here to Parliament

0:03:35 > 0:03:39and waved that piece of paper he brought back from Munich

0:03:39 > 0:03:42and declared it to have brought "peace for our time",

0:03:42 > 0:03:46a wave of relief swept through most of Europe -

0:03:46 > 0:03:49but not in Czechoslovakia, of course.

0:03:49 > 0:03:52PIPE AND DRUM MUSIC

0:04:01 > 0:04:04We lived in Sudetenland,

0:04:04 > 0:04:10this town of Pobezovice which is near to the border of Germany.

0:04:10 > 0:04:16It all happened so suddenly - my mother took us four children.

0:04:16 > 0:04:20We didn't manage to take anything at all.

0:04:20 > 0:04:23We just ran for our lives.

0:04:23 > 0:04:26This was frightening for children.

0:04:26 > 0:04:29I remember standing in front of a shop window where there was

0:04:29 > 0:04:35a map of Czechoslovak Republic and in a black ink was

0:04:35 > 0:04:39marked in the part which was handed over to Hitler.

0:04:39 > 0:04:44And there were people all around the shop making all kinds of bad remarks

0:04:44 > 0:04:46and saying, "Well, you can't do that.

0:04:46 > 0:04:49"We will fight and we will fight and fight."

0:04:49 > 0:04:53I remember the following day, loading all our few belongings,

0:04:53 > 0:05:00there weren't too much, on a horse and cart and we were out of there.

0:05:00 > 0:05:04My parents, my brother and I and at the time,

0:05:04 > 0:05:07I was just six years old - we had no clue what was going on.

0:05:16 > 0:05:20There was a new refugee girl in our class

0:05:20 > 0:05:27and I was most surprised to see that she had no shoes on her feet.

0:05:27 > 0:05:30When break came, I ran across the road

0:05:30 > 0:05:38and took out of my wardrobe my best shoes and brought them to her.

0:05:38 > 0:05:44I told Mother what had happened - tears appeared on her face.

0:05:44 > 0:05:47And she hugged me and she said,

0:05:47 > 0:05:50"You did the right thing, my little girl."

0:06:04 > 0:06:08The first pages of the scrapbook, and of our story, came to be

0:06:08 > 0:06:11written in December 1938.

0:06:11 > 0:06:15You look at the pictures, and the list of all of us and you have

0:06:15 > 0:06:21to wonder - what made a 29-year-old Englishman do such a thing?

0:06:21 > 0:06:24BELL TOLLS

0:06:29 > 0:06:32In a way, what Winton did was surprising -

0:06:32 > 0:06:34the world was his oyster.

0:06:34 > 0:06:36In the depth of the Great Depression,

0:06:36 > 0:06:40his job as a stockbroker allowed him to enjoy the good life.

0:06:40 > 0:06:44He was a champion fencer who also loved to sail, to ski

0:06:44 > 0:06:46and to travel.

0:06:46 > 0:06:49SWING MUSIC

0:06:51 > 0:06:55In 1938, with Christmas approaching,

0:06:55 > 0:07:00Winton had his mind set on going to Switzerland for a skiing holiday.

0:07:00 > 0:07:03In other words, he wasn't exactly the kind of young man

0:07:03 > 0:07:07you'd normally associate with a passion for altruism.

0:07:07 > 0:07:11At least, not until that phone call that changed his life,

0:07:11 > 0:07:15my life and the life of so many others.

0:07:17 > 0:07:19PHONE RINGS

0:07:19 > 0:07:20Hello?

0:07:20 > 0:07:23'The phone call was from Prague, from Martin Blake,'

0:07:23 > 0:07:27a friend with whom Nicky had planned to go on that skiing trip.

0:07:27 > 0:07:29Blake said he couldn't make it

0:07:29 > 0:07:31because he had gone to Czechoslovakia

0:07:31 > 0:07:36to help people in trouble with the Germans, so Nicky decided to forget

0:07:36 > 0:07:41the ski trip and join Blake to take a look at what was going on there.

0:07:41 > 0:07:44SWING MUSIC

0:07:49 > 0:07:51Hello.

0:07:51 > 0:07:55'I went to Prague with the background knowledge'

0:07:55 > 0:07:58of people in England

0:07:58 > 0:08:02who felt they knew much more about what Hitler was up to

0:08:02 > 0:08:04than the present government.

0:08:09 > 0:08:13The first thing I did then was to go around the camps where all

0:08:13 > 0:08:17those people endangered by the Nazis were living.

0:08:19 > 0:08:22Some Nissen huts with one little stove in the middle

0:08:22 > 0:08:25and the conditions were pretty terrible.

0:08:29 > 0:08:32It was very cold, snow on the ground

0:08:32 > 0:08:35and a lot of the refugees were really in very bad shape.

0:08:35 > 0:08:39They felt that the days were numbered before the Germans were

0:08:39 > 0:08:44going to arrive in Czechoslovakia, but how could they save themselves?

0:08:44 > 0:08:48What could they do? Where should they go? They were stuck.

0:08:52 > 0:08:56While Winton was in Prague, he was given a map that shook him up.

0:08:56 > 0:08:59He showed the map, a map of German plans

0:08:59 > 0:09:03and ambitions for territorial expansion to France.

0:09:06 > 0:09:08And what it showed

0:09:08 > 0:09:12was that the Germans had ambition to take over the whole of Europe.

0:09:13 > 0:09:15Nobody had believed it.

0:09:31 > 0:09:35There were many other people, refugees like us,

0:09:35 > 0:09:42small children. There was a fire, smoke from cooking and heating

0:09:42 > 0:09:48and I remember being given something hot cos it was cold weather then.

0:09:52 > 0:09:56The respiration was not just among the poor in the camps.

0:09:56 > 0:09:59In Prague and elsewhere, anxious parents,

0:09:59 > 0:10:03having heard about this concerned Englishman,

0:10:03 > 0:10:05headed for Winton's hotel. KNOCK ON DOOR

0:10:07 > 0:10:08KNOCK ON DOOR

0:10:08 > 0:10:10Well, I didn't get much sleep when I was at the Sroubek.

0:10:10 > 0:10:12I got to bed very late

0:10:12 > 0:10:16and there were people knocking at my door in the morning.

0:10:16 > 0:10:19INDISTINCT CHATTER

0:10:21 > 0:10:28I saw those people who were in difficulty, in danger.

0:10:28 > 0:10:33People on Hitler's blacklist for whom there was nobody to help.

0:10:34 > 0:10:38I thought, at least I ought to try and save the children.

0:10:44 > 0:10:47INDISTINCT CHATTER

0:10:47 > 0:10:49Can you please, please take them?

0:10:49 > 0:10:51Everybody in Prague said,

0:10:51 > 0:10:54"Look, there is no organisation to deal with the children.

0:10:54 > 0:10:56"We can't deal with them.

0:10:56 > 0:10:59"Anyway, nobody will let the children in on their own

0:10:59 > 0:11:02"but if you want to have a go, have a go."

0:11:02 > 0:11:07And I have a motto that if something isn't blatantly impossible,

0:11:07 > 0:11:09there must be a way of doing it.

0:11:20 > 0:11:23So he started writing letters - here, there, everywhere -

0:11:23 > 0:11:27asking for help, and he had no hesitation about going

0:11:27 > 0:11:30right to the top, writing to the White House,

0:11:30 > 0:11:32to President Franklin Roosevelt.

0:11:39 > 0:11:43A few weeks later he got a reply, not from the White House, though,

0:11:43 > 0:11:46but from much lower down on the diplomatic food chain,

0:11:46 > 0:11:49from this building here in London right behind me -

0:11:49 > 0:11:52the American Embassy. And the reply said,

0:11:52 > 0:11:56"The United States Government is unable to permit immigration

0:11:56 > 0:12:01"in excess of that provided for by existing laws."

0:12:10 > 0:12:13But Winton wasn't about to let this stop him.

0:12:13 > 0:12:17He and his helpers started making up the list of children

0:12:17 > 0:12:21without actually knowing whether they would be able to help them.

0:12:23 > 0:12:27'This is the cafe that I came down every day.'

0:12:27 > 0:12:30I wasn't sitting there for more than about two minutes

0:12:30 > 0:12:33before the first people came to talk to me

0:12:33 > 0:12:36and find out how they could get their children to England.

0:12:36 > 0:12:40And this went on the whole time I was here.

0:12:45 > 0:12:47The picture must be of good quality.

0:12:49 > 0:12:52As word of his campaign spread,

0:12:52 > 0:12:54it drew the attention of the Germans.

0:12:54 > 0:12:59They suspected that Nicky Winton's efforts were about something more

0:12:59 > 0:13:02than just getting out a few children.

0:13:02 > 0:13:05They decided they needed to get closer to him,

0:13:05 > 0:13:10which they did, using one of the oldest tricks in the spy business -

0:13:10 > 0:13:12the lure of a beautiful woman.

0:13:26 > 0:13:31They met as if by chance at the Hotel Sroubek.

0:13:31 > 0:13:35Nicky was enchanted, and not just by her beauty.

0:13:35 > 0:13:37Her name, she said, was Kerstin

0:13:37 > 0:13:39and she was the Prague representative

0:13:39 > 0:13:41of the Swedish Red Cross.

0:13:44 > 0:13:47'I dare say she was very beautiful.'

0:13:47 > 0:13:51I mean, traditional for a spy to be beautiful, isn't it?

0:13:53 > 0:13:57You can't have an ugly spy. It's a contradiction in terms.

0:14:00 > 0:14:05Kerstin told him she had permission to bring refugee children to Sweden.

0:14:05 > 0:14:07CLASSICAL MUSIC PLAYS

0:14:13 > 0:14:16Winton's hopes soared.

0:14:16 > 0:14:19Finally, a chance perhaps to get some children out.

0:14:21 > 0:14:24Friends warned him that she was a known Nazi spy.

0:14:24 > 0:14:28Nicky forged ahead anyway and kept on seeing her.

0:14:34 > 0:14:36And it paid off.

0:14:36 > 0:14:40Kerstin got 25 children admitted to Sweden.

0:14:40 > 0:14:43In fact, she flew off to Sweden with them

0:14:43 > 0:14:47and disappeared from Nicky's life completely.

0:14:58 > 0:15:03My parents tried every way to get us out of Czechoslovakia.

0:15:05 > 0:15:09We tried to get to America. We tried to get to England.

0:15:09 > 0:15:11We tried to get to Palestine.

0:15:11 > 0:15:15But all the governments said, "Our borders are now closed."

0:15:17 > 0:15:21My mother got up every day at four o'clock

0:15:21 > 0:15:25and went to stand in the queues of different consuls,

0:15:25 > 0:15:28for getting papers for Uruguay

0:15:28 > 0:15:32and some other unmentionable places.

0:15:32 > 0:15:34And there was no way out.

0:15:36 > 0:15:40We knew that the timing was absolutely essential

0:15:40 > 0:15:42to do everything now and quickly.

0:15:45 > 0:15:50The number of children who were in urgent need of leaving

0:15:50 > 0:15:55the country for safety was certainly over 2,000.

0:16:00 > 0:16:03Winton kept on meeting with the families,

0:16:03 > 0:16:06working on a list of children.

0:16:06 > 0:16:08Then, suddenly,

0:16:08 > 0:16:12his work was threatened by a phone call from London.

0:16:12 > 0:16:15The call was from his boss.

0:16:15 > 0:16:18'My boss from the stock exchange'

0:16:18 > 0:16:21didn't think that what I was doing in Prague was important.

0:16:21 > 0:16:25He didn't think what I was doing in Prague was necessary.

0:16:25 > 0:16:28He said, "Why do you want to stay in Czechoslovakia

0:16:28 > 0:16:33"and help those far-off people that people don't know anything about?"

0:16:33 > 0:16:36He was just a money chap on the stock exchange,

0:16:36 > 0:16:40completely non-humanitarian with bags of money,

0:16:40 > 0:16:43and all he thought about was money.

0:16:44 > 0:16:47Winton, to the relief of his co-workers,

0:16:47 > 0:16:51decided to defy his boss and stay in Prague.

0:16:51 > 0:16:54No, I'm telling you, it's important...

0:16:54 > 0:16:56Nicky Winton's efforts

0:16:56 > 0:16:59came to the ears of all those who had decided

0:16:59 > 0:17:01to send their children away.

0:17:01 > 0:17:07My father also approached this refugee committee.

0:17:10 > 0:17:16My mother took me to the Winton office on Hrubesova Ulice.

0:17:16 > 0:17:21We stood in line on a winding staircase for hours

0:17:21 > 0:17:25till my turn came and I was registered.

0:17:25 > 0:17:28INDISTINCT CHATTER

0:17:32 > 0:17:36The parents exchanged their hopes and fears and we children

0:17:36 > 0:17:40eyed each other for potential friends.

0:17:44 > 0:17:46BABY SCREAMS

0:17:46 > 0:17:50You had all these refugees who were fleeing from Hitler

0:17:50 > 0:17:53and who were in danger of their lives

0:17:53 > 0:17:57if Hitler made another move into Czechoslovakia.

0:18:00 > 0:18:03MARCHING BAND MUSIC PLAYS

0:18:09 > 0:18:13This was the day the Germans occupied Prague.

0:18:13 > 0:18:16There were convoys approaching.

0:18:16 > 0:18:20Germans with motorcycles in front, with sidecars,

0:18:20 > 0:18:24and behind them there were the big trucks - open trucks -

0:18:24 > 0:18:27with soldiers seated on two rows.

0:18:27 > 0:18:30The people on the street were screaming at them.

0:18:30 > 0:18:32Women were crying.

0:18:39 > 0:18:43Finally, a very large Mercedes drove past,

0:18:43 > 0:18:47Hitler standing there with his arm raised

0:18:47 > 0:18:50with three officers sitting behind.

0:18:50 > 0:18:55It was so quiet, it was like you could hear a pin drop.

0:19:06 > 0:19:09As soon as Hitler came in,

0:19:09 > 0:19:11a Nazi officer came to our school and said,

0:19:11 > 0:19:13"Who are the Jewish children?"

0:19:13 > 0:19:15And another child and I put our hands up.

0:19:15 > 0:19:18So he said, "You sit at the back.

0:19:18 > 0:19:20"Jewish children sit at the back."

0:19:22 > 0:19:26When he went out, the headmaster came in and he said,

0:19:26 > 0:19:29"From now on, the back seat is the seat of honour.

0:19:29 > 0:19:32"Only the best children sit there."

0:19:32 > 0:19:34That was Czechoslovakia.

0:19:38 > 0:19:43Winton wrote all over, looking for countries to take in his children.

0:19:43 > 0:19:47Only one responded positively - his own country, Britain.

0:19:47 > 0:19:49The rest of the world

0:19:49 > 0:19:54closed its eyes, its ears, its hearts

0:19:54 > 0:19:55and its gates.

0:20:00 > 0:20:03Winton started his work in London from scratch.

0:20:03 > 0:20:07There was no organisation, no existing pipeline and he was

0:20:07 > 0:20:12convinced that time was running out, that war was about to come.

0:20:14 > 0:20:18From this house on Hampstead Heath, Winton conducted his campaign

0:20:18 > 0:20:20to get the Germans to let the children out,

0:20:20 > 0:20:23the British Home Office to let them in,

0:20:23 > 0:20:26to find British families to take them into their homes

0:20:26 > 0:20:30and to raise the money to make it all possible.

0:20:37 > 0:20:41One of the chief problems was people said that the English government

0:20:41 > 0:20:46would never allow children in on their own without their parents.

0:20:48 > 0:20:51I asked the Home Office and they said yes.

0:20:51 > 0:20:54And they gave me certain conditions which were difficult.

0:20:54 > 0:20:57I had to find a family

0:20:57 > 0:21:04which would look after the child until the emergency was over.

0:21:04 > 0:21:08And each child had to have a guarantor of £50.

0:21:08 > 0:21:10It was a hell of a lot of money.

0:21:11 > 0:21:15When I say the committee in London, it was me and a secretary,

0:21:15 > 0:21:18working from home. I mean, we had no office.

0:21:18 > 0:21:21We weren't an official body at all.

0:21:21 > 0:21:25So all I had to do was buy some notepaper and print,

0:21:25 > 0:21:30"British Committee of Refugees from Czechoslovakia Children's Section."

0:21:39 > 0:21:42Then I had the police round, asking me why I had so much

0:21:42 > 0:21:45correspondence with Prague.

0:21:45 > 0:21:48The situation in Prague was serious.

0:21:52 > 0:21:56There was active, menacing hostility from the Germans.

0:22:06 > 0:22:11When Hitler came, when the Germans occupied Czechoslovakia,

0:22:11 > 0:22:13I had to leave school.

0:22:13 > 0:22:17We couldn't go to the movies, we wouldn't go to the opera,

0:22:17 > 0:22:20to concerts - everything was forbidden.

0:22:22 > 0:22:26Father was driving along Karlovo Namesti

0:22:26 > 0:22:30and they saw that the Gestapo had made an action there

0:22:30 > 0:22:33and they were taking people out and putting them onto a truck.

0:22:33 > 0:22:36SHOUTING IN GERMAN

0:22:36 > 0:22:38Every family was scared. Which family was not scared?

0:22:38 > 0:22:40Every family was scared.

0:22:42 > 0:22:45Whenever my father left for the office in the morning,

0:22:45 > 0:22:49my mother was terribly upset and quite often cried

0:22:49 > 0:22:53because she was so worried that he might never come home again,

0:22:53 > 0:22:56being arrested by the Germans.

0:22:58 > 0:23:00My father was a wanted person

0:23:00 > 0:23:03and he was warned to leave.

0:23:04 > 0:23:07A few days later, the Gestapo did come to look for him.

0:23:07 > 0:23:10They took my mother away for questioning.

0:23:17 > 0:23:19Well, I was beginning to pick up

0:23:19 > 0:23:22tension and worry in the grown-ups.

0:23:23 > 0:23:27My uncle and his wife committed suicide.

0:23:31 > 0:23:35And then, the next day, someone came to our house

0:23:35 > 0:23:37and said, "Brno is burning."

0:23:37 > 0:23:41And so - I was terrified of fire.

0:23:41 > 0:23:45That was the day, then, that there were three,

0:23:45 > 0:23:49four synagogues burnt down to the ground.

0:23:53 > 0:23:58As the despair of the parents grew, so did the pressure on Winton,

0:23:58 > 0:24:02with photographs of applicants continuing to flow in.

0:24:02 > 0:24:08A simple snapshot could often decide the fate of a child.

0:24:12 > 0:24:15BIG BEN TOLLS

0:24:18 > 0:24:21We received the pictures of the children from Prague

0:24:21 > 0:24:24with details of each child.

0:24:24 > 0:24:29We enlisted these pictures in the local press, the national press,

0:24:29 > 0:24:35in Picture Post which was a journal which helped us enormously.

0:24:39 > 0:24:42What made Winton so effective

0:24:42 > 0:24:46was that in addition to his skills as a salesman,

0:24:46 > 0:24:50he also had a creative spark and a willingness to experiment.

0:24:59 > 0:25:05We put six or eight of these children together on one card,

0:25:05 > 0:25:07merely to speed up the process

0:25:07 > 0:25:10of getting the British families to choose.

0:25:12 > 0:25:15If somebody said, "We'd like to take a child,"

0:25:15 > 0:25:17we just said, "What sex?"

0:25:17 > 0:25:20And then we said, "What age?"

0:25:20 > 0:25:22We gave them pictures of half a dozen children

0:25:22 > 0:25:25and then we asked them to choose a child.

0:25:26 > 0:25:31Which was rather a commercial way of dealing with it

0:25:31 > 0:25:34but it was quick and effective and it worked

0:25:34 > 0:25:37and in most cases it went right.

0:26:03 > 0:26:06But when somebody wanted to take a child,

0:26:06 > 0:26:10say they were up in Newcastle from London, which is a long way away,

0:26:10 > 0:26:12we got somebody in Newcastle

0:26:12 > 0:26:16to vet the family to see that the family was OK.

0:26:19 > 0:26:24We were sitting round a little table, you know, having supper

0:26:24 > 0:26:28that Mother wasn't eating and suddenly she put...

0:26:30 > 0:26:35..her knife and fork down and looked at Father and said very quietly,

0:26:35 > 0:26:43"I heard today...that both Eva and Vera can go to England."

0:26:43 > 0:26:48And my father looked up and there were tears in his eyes and...

0:26:48 > 0:26:50as he said...

0:26:50 > 0:26:53"We'll have to let them go."

0:27:00 > 0:27:02There was a lot of sadness

0:27:02 > 0:27:04in the house and also...

0:27:04 > 0:27:07um...sort of...

0:27:07 > 0:27:09a peculiar atmosphere.

0:27:09 > 0:27:13My father looked sad, my mother, obviously, was devastated.

0:27:16 > 0:27:18One day, I remember my father...

0:27:18 > 0:27:21called me and he said,

0:27:21 > 0:27:22"You're going on a long journey.

0:27:22 > 0:27:27"You're going to a country called England.

0:27:27 > 0:27:30"We can't come with you."

0:27:47 > 0:27:51The pressure from the parents was incredible.

0:27:57 > 0:28:00We in London at that time

0:28:00 > 0:28:04thought there was going to be a catastrophe at any moment,

0:28:04 > 0:28:07and for us, time was absolutely essential.

0:28:07 > 0:28:10We cut all kinds of corners...

0:28:11 > 0:28:17..even having fake passports or travel documents made at some time

0:28:17 > 0:28:19because the Home Office was a bit slow.

0:28:24 > 0:28:27But it was a forgery to bamboozle the Germans, really,

0:28:27 > 0:28:30not to bamboozle the British.

0:28:30 > 0:28:32We didn't bring anybody in illegally,

0:28:32 > 0:28:36we just speeded the process up a little.

0:28:47 > 0:28:49TRAIN WHISTLE BLOWS

0:28:51 > 0:28:55My mother, with a friend of hers, took me to the station.

0:28:55 > 0:28:57I can still see

0:28:57 > 0:29:00the tension on my mother's face.

0:29:02 > 0:29:04Looking anxious.

0:29:04 > 0:29:08There were German soldiers with the swastika standing nearby,

0:29:08 > 0:29:11lots of other parents seeing their children off.

0:29:11 > 0:29:17And a clear sense of tension which even a six-year-old child felt.

0:29:19 > 0:29:25My mom, she is crying so hard and... she was hysterical.

0:29:25 > 0:29:27And she's asking us over and over,

0:29:27 > 0:29:30"Are you sure you want to go, are you sure you want to go?"

0:29:30 > 0:29:33I'm frustrated, "Why is my mother crying like that?

0:29:33 > 0:29:35"I've never seen her like that."

0:29:39 > 0:29:42Transport was due to leave, I'd get a message from the Germans -

0:29:42 > 0:29:46"We can't let the transport go unless you give us

0:29:46 > 0:29:48"so much more money."

0:29:48 > 0:29:50So they were terrible.

0:29:50 > 0:29:52We just had to find the money.

0:29:52 > 0:29:55I mean, it was an egg you couldn't unscramble any more.

0:29:57 > 0:30:00There's no way you can cancel a big operation like that.

0:30:16 > 0:30:19SOLDIER SHOUTS IN GERMAN

0:30:19 > 0:30:23The last thing my dad said to me was I should be his brave,

0:30:23 > 0:30:26cheerful little girl.

0:30:26 > 0:30:28And I think I have been.

0:30:29 > 0:30:32And he said, "See you soon."

0:30:45 > 0:30:50My mother was beside herself. My little sister was crying.

0:30:50 > 0:30:52My mother wanted to hold her.

0:30:55 > 0:30:58She took my sister through the open window of the train.

0:30:58 > 0:31:02We kept on telling my mother to keep her.

0:31:02 > 0:31:05"Keep her, keep her," when she took her out of the window.

0:31:05 > 0:31:10- And she held her.- I know how much she suffered, really.

0:31:10 > 0:31:12I can just be sure...

0:31:12 > 0:31:15It just makes me cry when I think about it.

0:31:20 > 0:31:23DROWNED OUT BY DRAMATIC MUSIC

0:31:29 > 0:31:30WHISTLE BLOWS

0:32:20 > 0:32:28Today you have to realise the sacrifice our parents did for us.

0:32:28 > 0:32:32They didn't know where they were sending us to.

0:32:36 > 0:32:40It was the courage of our parents to send their children away.

0:32:43 > 0:32:46Then the next day, when we were crossing Germany,

0:32:46 > 0:32:48we're passing through these railway stations

0:32:48 > 0:32:52bedecked with Nazi flags, uniforms.

0:32:54 > 0:32:59And there were big portraits of Hitler and the swastikas everywhere.

0:33:05 > 0:33:07We arrived at the German border.

0:33:07 > 0:33:12There were lots of Germans crowding around

0:33:12 > 0:33:15and we wondered what was going to happen.

0:33:15 > 0:33:18SOLDIER SPEAKS GERMAN

0:33:18 > 0:33:22There was something very frightening about the way

0:33:22 > 0:33:25they walked into the cabin, looked at our luggage.

0:33:25 > 0:33:28There was a feeling that there was going to be trouble.

0:33:31 > 0:33:34BABY CRIES

0:33:45 > 0:33:48THEY SPEAK GERMAN

0:33:48 > 0:33:50BABY CRIES

0:33:54 > 0:33:58We were terrified they would do something like maybe...

0:33:58 > 0:34:03arrest us. We didn't know. We had the biggest fears.

0:34:03 > 0:34:05We were dumbfounded.

0:34:05 > 0:34:09But finally they got off and we were delighted.

0:34:09 > 0:34:11We breathed a sigh of relief.

0:34:14 > 0:34:16HORN BLASTS

0:34:17 > 0:34:20We finally did reach the Channel coast and boarded a ship,

0:34:20 > 0:34:24and the ship just seemed huge to me because the only ships I'd ever seen

0:34:24 > 0:34:26before in my life were the little paddle steamers

0:34:26 > 0:34:29that went up and down the Danube in Bratislava.

0:34:35 > 0:34:38And, being little boys, we were fascinated by the ship

0:34:38 > 0:34:41and looking around, climbing up and down gangways

0:34:41 > 0:34:43and just running along all over the place.

0:34:45 > 0:34:50It was fun to go on a boat. I'd never been on a big boat...

0:34:50 > 0:34:53- HE CHUCKLES - ..to cross the Channel.

0:34:55 > 0:34:57That night, as we crossed the English Channel,

0:34:57 > 0:35:00suspended for a few hours in the calmness of

0:35:00 > 0:35:02the ship rocking us to sleep,

0:35:02 > 0:35:06I heard voices from nearby cabins singing the Czech national anthem.

0:35:06 > 0:35:09THEY SING KDE DOMOV MUJ?

0:35:15 > 0:35:19Kde domov muj? Kde domov muj?

0:35:19 > 0:35:23"Where is my home? Where is my home?"

0:35:23 > 0:35:28It was a question that remained unanswered for many of us for years.

0:35:31 > 0:35:36The question that, for a few, remains unanswered to this day.

0:35:45 > 0:35:50Liverpool Street station. This is where we arrived in London.

0:35:50 > 0:35:53It's all changed, of course, except for all the noise.

0:35:53 > 0:35:57What I remember most is one of those little odd facts

0:35:57 > 0:35:59that stick in your mind your whole life,

0:35:59 > 0:36:03and that is getting off the train, that you didn't have to climb down

0:36:03 > 0:36:06to the rails as you did in Central Europe,

0:36:06 > 0:36:08but the platform was even with the train door

0:36:08 > 0:36:11and all you had to do was just step out.

0:36:13 > 0:36:16I was very, very impressed.

0:36:16 > 0:36:19- FILM NARRATOR:- 'Liverpool Street station saw the arrival of another

0:36:19 > 0:36:20'group of refugee children,

0:36:20 > 0:36:23'another piteous cargo thrown overboard by the ruthless

0:36:23 > 0:36:25'code of the modern European temper.

0:36:25 > 0:36:29'A special effort is being made to help the refugees on Mother's Day.'

0:36:30 > 0:36:36Then the train arrived and you had up to 200, 250 children getting out

0:36:36 > 0:36:40and you had to get the right child to the right family.

0:36:46 > 0:36:49And you had to treat it as a business.

0:36:49 > 0:36:52When you got the right child with the right family, the family had to

0:36:52 > 0:36:56sign for the child so that you had some proof of delivery.

0:37:16 > 0:37:19They assembled us kids in the corner.

0:37:19 > 0:37:22There were a bunch of grown-ups waiting behind the barrier,

0:37:22 > 0:37:26craning their necks, waiting to pick us up.

0:37:26 > 0:37:28A lady behind a wooden table called my name...

0:37:28 > 0:37:31"Ben Abeles!"

0:37:31 > 0:37:37A lady my mother's age came over, embraced me and kissed me.

0:37:49 > 0:37:52I remember when I arrived,

0:37:52 > 0:37:55having this uncomfortable string around my neck

0:37:55 > 0:38:02and a big placard on my chest and I just was totally alone

0:38:02 > 0:38:03with nobody around me,

0:38:03 > 0:38:05and I was obviously waiting

0:38:05 > 0:38:08for the family who I was going to to pick me up

0:38:08 > 0:38:11and I was just three years old.

0:38:14 > 0:38:18There was bound to be troubles and difficulties.

0:38:18 > 0:38:21Some children got left behind and the police looked after them

0:38:21 > 0:38:24until we could sort things out.

0:38:24 > 0:38:27It was fairly chaotic but it worked out.

0:38:32 > 0:38:36There were five boys sitting on suitcases,

0:38:36 > 0:38:38waiting for somebody to pick us up.

0:38:42 > 0:38:47Nobody picked us up. It was late at night and, uh...

0:38:47 > 0:38:51a taxi driver came over

0:38:51 > 0:38:54and asked us, "Have you been here since seven o'clock in the morning?

0:38:54 > 0:38:57"Are you hungry?"

0:38:57 > 0:39:00And he drove us not far away from the station,

0:39:00 > 0:39:03to a fish and chip shop.

0:39:03 > 0:39:08Later, he took us to his own wife and small child

0:39:08 > 0:39:12in a single-bedroom apartment

0:39:12 > 0:39:15in which he put us up - the five of us.

0:39:17 > 0:39:20English people as a people...

0:39:20 > 0:39:22are extremely kind

0:39:22 > 0:39:26and I would say the, uh...

0:39:29 > 0:39:33..the poorer they were, the kinder they were.

0:39:35 > 0:39:38And we all were ushered into a big hall

0:39:38 > 0:39:41and there were hundreds of the children.

0:39:41 > 0:39:45And I was left sitting there...

0:39:45 > 0:39:47trembling at the knees.

0:39:47 > 0:39:52And suddenly the door opened and a little lady ran towards me,

0:39:52 > 0:39:57laughing and smiling at the same time,

0:39:57 > 0:40:01with tears streaming down her face as well and she hugged me.

0:40:02 > 0:40:05Mr and Mrs Num,

0:40:05 > 0:40:11the family that took us in, they were Methodists, farmers

0:40:11 > 0:40:15in Redgrave in Suffolk, East Anglia.

0:40:15 > 0:40:20Their cottage had a thatched roof. I'd never seen a thatched roof.

0:40:20 > 0:40:22My cousin and I went around the walls, knocking -

0:40:22 > 0:40:24we were afraid it may fall down!

0:40:24 > 0:40:26HE LAUGHS

0:40:26 > 0:40:29And, for instance, the toilet was outside.

0:40:29 > 0:40:33There was no electricity. And they were good to us.

0:40:33 > 0:40:38They were true Christians in the real sense of the word.

0:40:40 > 0:40:44And the only people who objected to what I was doing

0:40:44 > 0:40:49was when one day a couple of rabbis arrived at home

0:40:49 > 0:40:55and said that they understood that some of the good Jewish children

0:40:55 > 0:40:59I was bringing over to this country were going to Christian homes

0:40:59 > 0:41:01and that must stop.

0:41:01 > 0:41:05And I said, "Well, it won't stop and if you prefer a dead Jew in Prague

0:41:05 > 0:41:10"to a live one who is being brought up in a Christian home,

0:41:10 > 0:41:12"that's your problem, not mine."

0:41:12 > 0:41:16As the months passed, Winton knew the end was nearing and so

0:41:16 > 0:41:21he kept on pressing even harder for permits for more children.

0:41:24 > 0:41:29There were thousands of children on the list who wanted to get out.

0:41:31 > 0:41:36We had organised eight transports from Prague.

0:41:36 > 0:41:39No transport completed the operation.

0:41:39 > 0:41:43It was an operation without end.

0:41:43 > 0:41:46For the beginning of September, we had arranged

0:41:46 > 0:41:51our biggest transport which would have comprised 250 children.

0:41:51 > 0:41:53All the paperwork was done,

0:41:53 > 0:41:56all the families were prepared to take the children,

0:41:56 > 0:42:00all the children were waiting in the train.

0:42:00 > 0:42:02DOG BARKS

0:42:04 > 0:42:07GERMAN SPEAKS OVER LOUDSPEAKER

0:42:20 > 0:42:22GUNFIRE

0:42:26 > 0:42:28BOMBS WHISTLE

0:42:34 > 0:42:37Our greatest regret was that our biggest transport,

0:42:37 > 0:42:39which was 250 children,

0:42:39 > 0:42:42which was due to leave at the beginning of September,

0:42:42 > 0:42:46was cancelled because war started.

0:42:46 > 0:42:51I was in London. We watched the planes coming over, dropping bombs.

0:42:51 > 0:42:55I remember the houses fell down

0:42:55 > 0:42:59like cards or domino sticks.

0:42:59 > 0:43:01Just collapsed.

0:43:08 > 0:43:12During the Battle of Britain, bombs were raining down on us every night.

0:43:12 > 0:43:17I was then an apprentice cook at the Bailey's Hotel in London

0:43:17 > 0:43:19as a dishwasher and pot washer

0:43:19 > 0:43:24and every night, practically, we ended up in the air raid shelter.

0:43:24 > 0:43:27BOMBS EXPLODE OUTSIDE

0:43:27 > 0:43:30My mother wrote us long letters.

0:43:30 > 0:43:33"My dearest children,

0:43:33 > 0:43:37"I'm very happy that you're over there and don't know about evil.

0:43:39 > 0:43:43"All Jews under 50 here must work in labour camps.

0:43:43 > 0:43:49"We will come through it somehow and you mustn't worry about us.

0:43:50 > 0:43:53"But I'm very happy that you are not here."

0:44:02 > 0:44:05We learnt about the concentration camps

0:44:05 > 0:44:10and the possibility that our parents might have been taken to them.

0:44:11 > 0:44:16We all hoped that nothing awful happened to them,

0:44:16 > 0:44:19that they were well.

0:44:20 > 0:44:24The last letter from my father came in 1942.

0:44:24 > 0:44:28He wrote that they had received orders to pack up,

0:44:28 > 0:44:32that they were being transported somewhere else.

0:44:32 > 0:44:35And in which he...

0:44:35 > 0:44:37wrote to his sons...

0:44:38 > 0:44:41..telling them...

0:44:41 > 0:44:45not to forget the precepts they were taught at home.

0:44:45 > 0:44:51And he hoped the Almighty would allow us to grow up

0:44:51 > 0:44:54into just and decent men.

0:44:58 > 0:45:01And that was the last thing I heard from my parents.

0:45:08 > 0:45:11SOMBRE CLASSICAL MUSIC PLAYS

0:45:30 > 0:45:35Nothing that happened prior to the war starting

0:45:35 > 0:45:38was really of any importance any more.

0:45:39 > 0:45:41What was done was done,

0:45:41 > 0:45:45what couldn't be done couldn't be done, what had been done was done.

0:45:45 > 0:45:49Once you can't stop a war and there is a war you, I suppose,

0:45:49 > 0:45:52go to the defence of your country and I joined the RAF.

0:46:22 > 0:46:25# There's a garden, what a garden

0:46:25 > 0:46:27# Only happy faces bloom there

0:46:27 > 0:46:29# And there's never any room there

0:46:29 > 0:46:32# For a worry or a gloom there

0:46:32 > 0:46:34# Oh, there's music and there's dancing

0:46:34 > 0:46:36# And a lot of sweet romancing... #

0:46:36 > 0:46:42We decided to go to town to see how everybody was celebrating and...

0:46:42 > 0:46:45Trafalgar Square, I remember, in London,

0:46:45 > 0:46:49where everybody went around putting up their two V for Victory.

0:46:49 > 0:46:53Everybody laughed. That was so gay.

0:46:53 > 0:46:56We were dancing with American soldiers.

0:46:59 > 0:47:04# Then they hear a rumble on the floor... #

0:47:04 > 0:47:06The war was over.

0:47:06 > 0:47:08But still no news of our families.

0:47:08 > 0:47:11Many of us came back to Czechoslovakia to look for them.

0:47:11 > 0:47:15I came to Prague, here to this building behind me,

0:47:15 > 0:47:19which served as a clearing house for separated families.

0:47:19 > 0:47:24Inside, wall upon wall filled with notices put up by people

0:47:24 > 0:47:26looking for their missing loved ones.

0:47:26 > 0:47:29Of my parents, though, not a trace.

0:47:29 > 0:47:32I know they were deported to Poland

0:47:32 > 0:47:36but to this day, I'm not certain how they came to die.

0:47:37 > 0:47:41My first stop in Prague was the house from which my parents

0:47:41 > 0:47:43were deported to Terezin.

0:47:43 > 0:47:48There was a minimal chance that they would have come back.

0:47:51 > 0:47:57I lingered for a while, as if I were waiting for them to appear suddenly.

0:47:59 > 0:48:01But in vain.

0:48:04 > 0:48:06My mother and my brother,

0:48:06 > 0:48:10together with about ten other children,

0:48:10 > 0:48:11arrived to Auschwitz...

0:48:14 > 0:48:18..and were sent to the gas chamber.

0:48:18 > 0:48:23An old friend of the family who took care of the dead bodies

0:48:23 > 0:48:26immediately recognised my mother.

0:48:26 > 0:48:31He told her, "Take your children, go in, sit down in the corner

0:48:31 > 0:48:34"and start to sing with them.

0:48:34 > 0:48:39"Because if you sing and you inhale the gas,

0:48:39 > 0:48:42"you will die very quickly."

0:48:52 > 0:48:54MUSIC BEGINS

0:49:38 > 0:49:43WIND HOWLS AND GAS HISSES

0:49:54 > 0:49:57When my parents went to concentration camps

0:49:57 > 0:50:01and when they saw other children around them, young boys and girls,

0:50:01 > 0:50:04being taken to gas chambers and so forth,

0:50:04 > 0:50:06they must have then...

0:50:12 > 0:50:14HE SOBS

0:50:16 > 0:50:19They must have then realised what they...

0:50:21 > 0:50:23..what they had done...

0:50:29 > 0:50:31..when they sent the children.

0:51:00 > 0:51:03My family...

0:51:03 > 0:51:05my parents...

0:51:05 > 0:51:08none of these people survived.

0:51:08 > 0:51:14So after the war we had to continue living, to overcome the past.

0:51:14 > 0:51:20We were all young, we were beginning, we had to build careers.

0:51:21 > 0:51:23When you're young you take everything in life,

0:51:23 > 0:51:25including survival, for granted.

0:51:25 > 0:51:29As I grew older, though, I began to wonder more and more how it was

0:51:29 > 0:51:32that when so many died, our parents, friends,

0:51:32 > 0:51:34families and millions of others,

0:51:34 > 0:51:37how it came to be that we fortunate few

0:51:37 > 0:51:40on those trains from Prague were spared.

0:51:40 > 0:51:46That is, until 50 years later when this scrapbook surfaced.

0:51:46 > 0:51:50The scrapbook and its story gathered dust for decades

0:51:50 > 0:51:51in the Wintons' attic,

0:51:51 > 0:51:55until one day Nicky's wife, Grete, found it, opened it,

0:51:55 > 0:51:59became fascinated, and yet was puzzled.

0:51:59 > 0:52:02And so 50 years after it happened,

0:52:02 > 0:52:08Nicky Winton finally told his wife what he had for so long kept secret.

0:52:10 > 0:52:13And his wife went to London and she tried to

0:52:13 > 0:52:17give this story to several people

0:52:17 > 0:52:19but nobody was interested

0:52:19 > 0:52:25until she came to me. I was given the scrapbook and this list of names

0:52:25 > 0:52:27and I thought it was very moving

0:52:27 > 0:52:31because they were ordinary names

0:52:31 > 0:52:34of people and Czech children.

0:52:34 > 0:52:37For instance, Berman, Thomas,

0:52:37 > 0:52:39Bekefi, Jiri,

0:52:39 > 0:52:41Benedict, Ruth.

0:52:41 > 0:52:43And we wrote to every one of them

0:52:43 > 0:52:46and from these...

0:52:46 > 0:52:51over 600 names, we got 250 answers.

0:52:51 > 0:52:53And most of the children were delighted.

0:52:53 > 0:52:55They did not know who had saved them

0:52:55 > 0:52:58and they did not know their own story.

0:52:58 > 0:53:04It caught the eye of Esther Rantzen, who was working for the BBC.

0:53:04 > 0:53:07So we did some research

0:53:07 > 0:53:11and we managed to track down some of those children,

0:53:11 > 0:53:13now adults, living in England.

0:53:13 > 0:53:15We were absolutely thrilled.

0:53:15 > 0:53:18This lady said to me, "What's your name?"

0:53:18 > 0:53:22So I said, "Pinkasovic."

0:53:22 > 0:53:27When I saw my name and my brother's name printed in this...

0:53:28 > 0:53:30The biggest shock of my life.

0:53:33 > 0:53:36I couldn't speak, I couldn't breathe.

0:53:36 > 0:53:39I had goose bumps all over my arms.

0:53:41 > 0:53:44All these years, 50 years.

0:53:50 > 0:53:54Nobody knew who masterminded our rescue and then out of the blue,

0:53:54 > 0:54:00I was asked to take part in a television show - That's Life! -

0:54:00 > 0:54:03where, to my joy and...

0:54:04 > 0:54:07..oh, such fulfilment,

0:54:07 > 0:54:10I came face-to-face

0:54:10 > 0:54:13with the man who saved my life.

0:54:13 > 0:54:17They got me there, in a way, under false pretences.

0:54:17 > 0:54:22I was sat in a seat which was focused on the camera and...

0:54:25 > 0:54:27..I became part of this programme.

0:54:27 > 0:54:30I didn't know I was going to meet for the first time

0:54:30 > 0:54:34the children that I'd brought over so many years before.

0:54:34 > 0:54:37..managed to save 664 children.

0:54:37 > 0:54:42This is his scrapbook. There are all kinds of fascinating pictures in it.

0:54:42 > 0:54:45Perhaps you can see - this is a picture of Nicholas Winton himself

0:54:45 > 0:54:47with one of the children he rescued.

0:54:47 > 0:54:50If you look at the very back of this scrapbook...

0:54:50 > 0:54:54Fascinating things in it, all the letters...

0:54:54 > 0:54:58But back here is the list of all the children.

0:54:58 > 0:55:01This is Vera Diamant, now Vera Gissing.

0:55:01 > 0:55:04We did find her name on his list.

0:55:04 > 0:55:08Vera Gissing is with us here tonight. Hello, Vera.

0:55:08 > 0:55:10And I should tell you that you are actually

0:55:10 > 0:55:13sitting next to Nicholas Winton.

0:55:13 > 0:55:14Hello.

0:55:40 > 0:55:41Thank you.

0:55:43 > 0:55:46I wore this around my neck

0:55:46 > 0:55:51and this is the actual pass that we were given to come to England.

0:55:51 > 0:55:54And I'm another of the children that you saved.

0:55:59 > 0:56:04Can I ask, is there anyone in our audience tonight who owes their life

0:56:04 > 0:56:08to Nicholas Winton? If so, could you stand up, please?

0:57:14 > 0:57:17The handkerchief I'm holding

0:57:17 > 0:57:23goes back to 1939.

0:57:23 > 0:57:29My mother saw me off on the Kindertransport from Prague

0:57:29 > 0:57:34and she took a handkerchief out of her bag,

0:57:34 > 0:57:37in order to wipe my tears

0:57:37 > 0:57:40at our goodbyes.

0:57:40 > 0:57:45I knew I would never see my parents again

0:57:45 > 0:57:48and I've kept this handkerchief,

0:57:48 > 0:57:52newly laundered, ever since.

0:57:54 > 0:57:58I'm glad that I've shared my stories

0:57:58 > 0:58:03for the sake of being recorded for posterity.

0:58:04 > 0:58:10Sadly, I don't think the world has learnt lessons

0:58:10 > 0:58:12from the past.

0:58:12 > 0:58:18Everybody has to learn to live with everybody else,

0:58:18 > 0:58:22regardless of creed or religion.

0:58:24 > 0:58:29I never thought what I did 70 years was going to have such a big impact

0:58:29 > 0:58:31as apparently it has.

0:58:31 > 0:58:34And if it has now got a story

0:58:34 > 0:58:38which helps people to live for the future,

0:58:38 > 0:58:41well, that will be an added bonus.