0:00:03 > 0:00:05Is Europe them or us?
0:00:05 > 0:00:08Should this island nation be part of
0:00:08 > 0:00:10or separate from the European club?
0:00:10 > 0:00:13It's a question we've faced for decades.
0:00:14 > 0:00:16We are better off out.
0:00:16 > 0:00:18- In.- Why's that? - We'd be mugs to come out.
0:00:18 > 0:00:21I think we're best left alone out of it altogether.
0:00:21 > 0:00:23Personally, I'm very much in favour of it.
0:00:23 > 0:00:26I can't see any good coming out of it for the British people.
0:00:26 > 0:00:29At least we'll have a say as to what goes on in Europe,
0:00:29 > 0:00:30but if we're not in, we won't.
0:00:30 > 0:00:32I don't think our sovereignty will be affected.
0:00:32 > 0:00:36We should keep out of the common market, cos we've dealt with the Germans twice.
0:00:36 > 0:00:40At the moment, all I can see is that it's all talk, talk, talk.
0:00:40 > 0:00:43Everyone always says, you know, you've got to listen to the people.
0:00:43 > 0:00:45When you listen to the people, you hear different things.
0:00:45 > 0:00:48Yes, it's true, some people are virulently anti-Europe,
0:00:48 > 0:00:50there are others that aren't.
0:00:50 > 0:00:53Now the people will decide our future in Europe,
0:00:53 > 0:00:55but it's not for the first time.
0:00:55 > 0:01:00Are you prepared to accept the verdict of the people on Thursday?
0:01:00 > 0:01:05Today, like four decades ago, we face a historic choice.
0:01:12 > 0:01:16This is the story of how and why the British people are being asked
0:01:16 > 0:01:19to decide our future in Europe again.
0:01:19 > 0:01:22It is the story of a long and turbulent debate,
0:01:22 > 0:01:25told with interviews old and new.
0:01:25 > 0:01:28This is our generation's moment to have that debate.
0:01:28 > 0:01:32For a small minority, on either side, this is a matter of passion.
0:01:32 > 0:01:34For most people, it's like the weather -
0:01:34 > 0:01:36it's there and they got on with it.
0:01:36 > 0:01:39But we've got to settle this issue. Britain has to decide -
0:01:39 > 0:01:41the British people have to decide.
0:01:41 > 0:01:45It's no excuse afterwards to say, "Well, I couldn't be bothered."
0:01:45 > 0:01:49One Prime Minister after another, one party after another,
0:01:49 > 0:01:54has sought to resolve our European question. None has so far succeeded.
0:01:54 > 0:01:58Indeed, one after another has paid a heavy political price
0:01:58 > 0:01:59for trying to do so.
0:01:59 > 0:02:03No wonder it's been so very tempting for the politicians to ask
0:02:03 > 0:02:06the people to resolve it for them,
0:02:06 > 0:02:09to promise to renegotiate our relationship with Europe
0:02:09 > 0:02:12and then give us a vote in a referendum.
0:02:12 > 0:02:14Sound familiar?
0:02:14 > 0:02:17Not today, but more than 40 years ago...
0:02:17 > 0:02:19TICKING
0:02:20 > 0:02:24# Waterloo - I was defeated you won the war... #
0:02:24 > 0:02:29Britain hosted Eurovision in the year which was Ted Heath's Waterloo.
0:02:29 > 0:02:32Out went the Tory Prime Minister who'd taken us INTO Europe,
0:02:32 > 0:02:34in came Labour's Harold Wilson.
0:02:36 > 0:02:39He promised a fundamental renegotiation
0:02:39 > 0:02:41to be followed by a referendum,
0:02:41 > 0:02:44and he put his Foreign Secretary Jim Callaghan in charge.
0:02:46 > 0:02:49Callaghan summoned all of Britain's ambassadors
0:02:49 > 0:02:50to common market countries.
0:02:50 > 0:02:52When they came to the Foreign Office,
0:02:52 > 0:02:54he told them how things were going to change.
0:02:56 > 0:02:58He called all the ambassadors together,
0:02:58 > 0:03:02came in, opened his blue Foreign Office box
0:03:02 > 0:03:06and took out eight copies of the Labour Party manifesto,
0:03:06 > 0:03:09which he handed round to the ambassadors.
0:03:09 > 0:03:11Made a joke about them having to pay for them
0:03:11 > 0:03:14and they weren't quite sure whether this was a joke or not -
0:03:14 > 0:03:16some were half fumbling for change in their pockets!
0:03:16 > 0:03:19And then told them the page on which to open the manifesto,
0:03:19 > 0:03:21which they duly did.
0:03:21 > 0:03:25And Jim said, "Would you read the paragraphs on Britain in Europe."
0:03:25 > 0:03:27They weren't quite sure whether
0:03:27 > 0:03:30they were supposed to read these tout ensemble out loud or whether...
0:03:30 > 0:03:31but they read them and Jim said,
0:03:31 > 0:03:34"I thought you'd like to know, this is our European policy."
0:03:34 > 0:03:36We, I suppose, rather cynical Foreign Office people
0:03:36 > 0:03:39thought this a bit odd.
0:03:39 > 0:03:42- Did you do that?- I don't think we did do the manifesto, no.
0:03:42 > 0:03:45I honestly never got the manifesto out and started reading it.
0:03:45 > 0:03:47No, I never did that.
0:03:47 > 0:03:51The renegotiation that we were pledged to
0:03:51 > 0:03:54by our manifestos in 1974,
0:03:54 > 0:03:56binding the next Labour government,
0:03:56 > 0:03:59was a "fundamental renegotiation".
0:03:59 > 0:04:01Those were the words deliberately inserted.
0:04:01 > 0:04:05At the end of the period of renegotiation,
0:04:05 > 0:04:08it will be important for us to decide,
0:04:08 > 0:04:11both in Europe's interest and in Britain's interest,
0:04:11 > 0:04:15whether this is an arrangement that is suitable and agreeable
0:04:15 > 0:04:18and worthwhile to both of us.
0:04:18 > 0:04:20Callaghan wasted no time,
0:04:20 > 0:04:24he headed across the Channel to deliver Labour's election promise.
0:04:25 > 0:04:28Jim Callaghan went to Brussels as Foreign Secretary and made
0:04:28 > 0:04:33the first speech, which sounded very tough and reassured people.
0:04:33 > 0:04:39But then every point was conceded, and at the very end,
0:04:39 > 0:04:42the constitutional question, which was the really important one,
0:04:42 > 0:04:44were never discussed.
0:04:46 > 0:04:50But how do you renegotiate a treaty that Britain has already signed
0:04:50 > 0:04:53and other countries don't want to rewrite?
0:04:53 > 0:04:57It was a problem then, just as it's been a problem now.
0:04:59 > 0:05:04I suspect that he came to the conclusion very early on,
0:05:04 > 0:05:08either that a fundamental renegotiation was impractical,
0:05:08 > 0:05:11or that it wasn't worth the fury
0:05:11 > 0:05:14and the difficulties of disengagement that might follow.
0:05:16 > 0:05:19If Britain was to stay in the European Community,
0:05:19 > 0:05:23the divided public and a split party would have to be persuaded.
0:05:23 > 0:05:27The German chancellor Helmut Schmidt, a fellow man of the left,
0:05:27 > 0:05:32was invited to address a special Labour Party conference.
0:05:34 > 0:05:37It was unclear to me whether Harold Wilson really wanted to
0:05:37 > 0:05:41stay inside the community, or was...left his options open.
0:05:42 > 0:05:46And I would not have been surprised if he had taken Britain out again.
0:05:46 > 0:05:49Eternal greetings of the largest...
0:05:49 > 0:05:51But how could the German leader avoid looking like
0:05:51 > 0:05:54he was telling the British people what to do?
0:05:55 > 0:05:59The anti-Common Market Cabinet minister Barbara Castle
0:05:59 > 0:06:03took it upon herself to give Schmidt some friendly advice.
0:06:03 > 0:06:07I warned that if Helmut, who could be an aggressive man -
0:06:07 > 0:06:10I knew him quite well, of course -
0:06:10 > 0:06:12were to take that line,
0:06:12 > 0:06:17he would face booing and possibly a slow handclap.
0:06:17 > 0:06:23Your comrades on the Continent want you to stay and you, please,
0:06:23 > 0:06:29will have to weigh this, if you talk of solidarity.
0:06:29 > 0:06:31You have to weigh it.
0:06:31 > 0:06:33APPLAUSE
0:06:33 > 0:06:36Helmut's speech was absolutely masterly
0:06:36 > 0:06:40and I noted in my diary that night
0:06:40 > 0:06:42that probably I, an anti-marketeer,
0:06:42 > 0:06:46had done more than anybody to help keep Britain in the Common Market.
0:06:46 > 0:06:49Schmidt and Wilson met at Chequers to do a deal.
0:06:49 > 0:06:53Wilson would back staying in, in return Schmidt would give Wilson
0:06:53 > 0:06:58enough concessions to claim his renegotiation had made a difference.
0:06:58 > 0:07:01Many believe that today's British and German leaders
0:07:01 > 0:07:03have done much the same.
0:07:03 > 0:07:09If he was to let Britain stay within the community,
0:07:09 > 0:07:13it was necessary to give him some...
0:07:13 > 0:07:18er, success in the renegotiations.
0:07:18 > 0:07:22On his 59th birthday, Harold Wilson celebrated.
0:07:22 > 0:07:26He claimed to have substantially achieved our objectives.
0:07:26 > 0:07:29The Common Market would now, he said, be firmly under the political
0:07:29 > 0:07:32direction of the governments of member states.
0:07:32 > 0:07:37But many saw his deal as a ruse to hold the Labour Party together.
0:07:38 > 0:07:40Nothing fundamental came out of the renegotiation.
0:07:40 > 0:07:43Nothing fundamental could have come out of the renegotiation.
0:07:43 > 0:07:47And it was essentially a brilliant ploy by Harold Wilson to make
0:07:47 > 0:07:51the antis feel that their position had been taken seriously
0:07:51 > 0:07:54and every possible attempt had been made to meet it -
0:07:54 > 0:07:57but, you know, sadly, unfortunately our European colleagues were not
0:07:57 > 0:08:00very sympathetic, so there was only a certain amount we could do.
0:08:00 > 0:08:02I thought it was very clever, it was a sort of brilliant waltz.
0:08:07 > 0:08:09All that remained was to get the thumbs-up
0:08:09 > 0:08:11from the British people in a referendum.
0:08:11 > 0:08:13Easier said than done.
0:08:13 > 0:08:18Public opinion backed saying no by 2-1.
0:08:18 > 0:08:20'What do you think of the Common Market?'
0:08:20 > 0:08:22I don't think much of it, why?
0:08:22 > 0:08:24I mean, what have they got for us? Nothing.
0:08:24 > 0:08:27And what have they done for us? Nothing.
0:08:27 > 0:08:28It's not doing us any good at the moment,
0:08:28 > 0:08:32so I don't see any reason why it should do us any good in the future.
0:08:32 > 0:08:36So, how could the country be persuaded to vote yes to Europe?
0:08:39 > 0:08:41- The facts.- The facts.- It's a good one.
0:08:41 > 0:08:46Now, you said sizes - 32, 36 - we must have a 38.
0:08:48 > 0:08:50We simply must.
0:08:50 > 0:08:52I can't get into one less and it's absolutely vital.
0:08:52 > 0:08:57And they're going to have on them, what was it - "Europe or Bust"?
0:08:57 > 0:09:01Compared to its well-funded rival, the No campaign looked bust.
0:09:01 > 0:09:05Right, well, let's put some pins in showing where we're going to hold these large meetings.
0:09:05 > 0:09:09- Starting in the north, with the Newcastle.- And then we'll move...
0:09:09 > 0:09:11'We were massive. I mean, it was a huge organisation.'
0:09:11 > 0:09:14There were three of us!
0:09:14 > 0:09:16It was a no contest from the start.
0:09:16 > 0:09:18They had the ability and they did wage
0:09:18 > 0:09:22a very efficient and sophisticated campaign,
0:09:22 > 0:09:25because they had the financing to do it.
0:09:25 > 0:09:27Over the last few weeks, Conservative,
0:09:27 > 0:09:29Liberal and Labour Party leaders
0:09:29 > 0:09:31have been travelling the country
0:09:31 > 0:09:35talking to all sorts of people in all sorts of places.
0:09:35 > 0:09:37Whatever their differences,
0:09:37 > 0:09:41on this issue these politicians are united as never before.
0:09:42 > 0:09:45The Yes campaign had one more asset.
0:09:45 > 0:09:47The new Tory leader Margaret Thatcher,
0:09:47 > 0:09:52who, back then, wore her pro-European colours with pride.
0:09:52 > 0:09:54We want a jumper parade.
0:09:54 > 0:09:56Come on, we want a jumper parade.
0:09:58 > 0:10:02It's very fitting that you should keep an all-night vigil under
0:10:02 > 0:10:05the statue of Sir Winston Churchill -
0:10:05 > 0:10:08the first person to have the great vision
0:10:08 > 0:10:11of working together for peace in Europe.
0:10:14 > 0:10:15CHEERING
0:10:16 > 0:10:18What would HE have made of it all?
0:10:19 > 0:10:22Labour's leaders had never been Euro enthusiasts.
0:10:22 > 0:10:25They'd hinted they were prepared to leave
0:10:25 > 0:10:29but now they warned that the risks were simply too great.
0:10:29 > 0:10:32First of all, please make sure that you go
0:10:32 > 0:10:35and vote in the Common Market referendum on Thursday.
0:10:36 > 0:10:40And secondly, the government asks you to vote Yes,
0:10:40 > 0:10:42clearly and unmistakably.
0:10:42 > 0:10:46MUSIC: I Do, I Do, I Do by ABBA
0:10:50 > 0:10:55On 5th June, the votes of the British jury came in.
0:10:56 > 0:11:00# Make your choice But believe me... #
0:11:00 > 0:11:02Let's go and see what Bob's got there on his map
0:11:02 > 0:11:04which is gradually filling up with green.
0:11:04 > 0:11:08Here we are with our 22 counting areas indicated on the map.
0:11:08 > 0:11:12If we cast our minds back to 1975, we're still in the period
0:11:12 > 0:11:16where Britain is the so-called sick man of Europe.
0:11:16 > 0:11:19That year, inflation within the United Kingdom
0:11:19 > 0:11:22went up to 27%.
0:11:23 > 0:11:25There was industrial strife, there was
0:11:25 > 0:11:29a real sense that Britain was becoming a basket case.
0:11:29 > 0:11:32The idea of economically being part of something that was doing
0:11:32 > 0:11:38better than us really trumped any arguments about sovereignty.
0:11:38 > 0:11:40And it's beginning to look as if
0:11:40 > 0:11:44we may not have a single No counting area in Britain itself.
0:11:46 > 0:11:47The referendum was decisive.
0:11:47 > 0:11:49The country said Yes to Europe
0:11:49 > 0:11:52and the Common Market by a margin of 2-1.
0:11:52 > 0:11:55Now we make way gracefully for Play School.
0:11:55 > 0:11:57We'll be back with more results at 4:25.
0:11:58 > 0:12:00There was to be no happy ending.
0:12:00 > 0:12:03In fact, what followed that referendum more than 40 years ago
0:12:03 > 0:12:06felt more like a playground fight.
0:12:06 > 0:12:09Those who won said to those who'd lost,
0:12:09 > 0:12:12"Get over it, you've had your chance!"
0:12:12 > 0:12:15Those who were defeated complained they'd been cheated,
0:12:15 > 0:12:17it wasn't fair.
0:12:17 > 0:12:20They'd been asked whether we wanted to join a Common Market
0:12:20 > 0:12:23and we had ended up joining something that would turn into
0:12:23 > 0:12:26something very, very different.
0:12:27 > 0:12:29We hear it on the doorsteps all the time.
0:12:29 > 0:12:31"I voted to join the Common Market,
0:12:31 > 0:12:35"but I worry about what it has become or is becoming."
0:12:37 > 0:12:41So, who was it who would sign up to the changes which transform
0:12:41 > 0:12:42the Common Market?
0:12:42 > 0:12:45None other than Margaret Thatcher.
0:12:45 > 0:12:47Now seen as the Euro-sceptic's pin-up,
0:12:47 > 0:12:51she was staunchly pro-European when she first came to power.
0:12:53 > 0:12:58This was the Europhoria of the Tories and even Mrs Thatcher in '79.
0:12:58 > 0:13:01History is rewritten, of course, that she was always opposed to the
0:13:01 > 0:13:04European Community, always antagonistic.
0:13:04 > 0:13:06She became antagonistic
0:13:06 > 0:13:12about how she was treated in Dublin in the autumn of 1979.
0:13:12 > 0:13:15Dublin was Mrs Thatcher's first big summit.
0:13:15 > 0:13:18She arrived with a demand for what became known
0:13:18 > 0:13:20as Mrs Thatcher's Billion,
0:13:20 > 0:13:24the gap between what Britain paid in and what we got out.
0:13:24 > 0:13:28Broadly speaking, for every £2 we contribute,
0:13:28 > 0:13:30we get £1 back.
0:13:30 > 0:13:35That leaves us with a net contribution of £1,000 million
0:13:35 > 0:13:39next year to the community, and rising in the future.
0:13:41 > 0:13:44Some saw this as a sort of late entry fee for joining
0:13:44 > 0:13:48the European club after its rules had been drawn up.
0:13:48 > 0:13:52Mrs Thatcher complained that Britain, along with Germany,
0:13:52 > 0:13:54was footing the bill for everyone else.
0:13:55 > 0:14:00Her fellow leaders didn't much like being lectured by the new girl.
0:14:00 > 0:14:04The position of Mrs Thatcher was to say,
0:14:04 > 0:14:06"I want my money back."
0:14:06 > 0:14:09It was not HER money, no.
0:14:09 > 0:14:11It was the money she had to pay.
0:14:11 > 0:14:16She, several times during this meeting in Dublin,
0:14:16 > 0:14:18said she wanted her money back.
0:14:18 > 0:14:21And she wanted it now.
0:14:21 > 0:14:25Honestly, how irritating... the way she did it.
0:14:27 > 0:14:32I made the remark to my friend, she hasn't paid a single penny as yet.
0:14:32 > 0:14:34Already she wants her pennies back.
0:14:34 > 0:14:40Schmidt and Giscard were fed up, one of them pretending to go to sleep,
0:14:40 > 0:14:42the other got very bored.
0:14:42 > 0:14:44And I think she prejudiced our case.
0:14:44 > 0:14:46They're all so smooth.
0:14:46 > 0:14:50I like some bony bits in personality, some prickly bits,
0:14:50 > 0:14:52some things you can argue with
0:14:52 > 0:14:55because it's only that way that you get to a solution.
0:14:55 > 0:14:58Diplomacy won't necessary bring you to a solution.
0:14:58 > 0:15:02The response of the European smoothies was far from diplomatic.
0:15:02 > 0:15:04The summit went from bad to worse.
0:15:06 > 0:15:07I think they were quite rude to her.
0:15:07 > 0:15:10I remember she really was hopping mad they paid no attention
0:15:10 > 0:15:14to her interventions and more or less told her to shut up.
0:15:14 > 0:15:17Well, it's anybody's guess who has been more discourteous
0:15:17 > 0:15:19at that meeting than the other.
0:15:23 > 0:15:26The leaders gathered for a glum photo call.
0:15:26 > 0:15:28Dublin had set the tone.
0:15:30 > 0:15:34From then on, year after year, summit after summit,
0:15:34 > 0:15:36the budget row rumbled on.
0:15:36 > 0:15:39Again and again, Mrs Thatcher would insist
0:15:39 > 0:15:42that Britain should get our money back.
0:15:48 > 0:15:51Eventually, five years later, in Fontainebleau,
0:15:51 > 0:15:53she swung that famous handbag
0:15:53 > 0:15:56and did get a rebate of SOME of her billion,
0:15:56 > 0:15:58but at what cost?
0:15:58 > 0:16:02I was ashamed to see the British government as a beggar.
0:16:02 > 0:16:07And, if a win is to receive a lot of money as a beggar,
0:16:07 > 0:16:09it was a victory.
0:16:11 > 0:16:14She got far more than she should have got.
0:16:14 > 0:16:17On the short run, she won,
0:16:17 > 0:16:21but whether a political price had to be paid on the longer run
0:16:21 > 0:16:22is very difficult to say.
0:16:24 > 0:16:28In the course of that argument, her good relations,
0:16:28 > 0:16:29her intention to be
0:16:29 > 0:16:33a new constructive spirit to Europe,
0:16:33 > 0:16:36if you like, the cause of Conservative Europeanism,
0:16:36 > 0:16:39really perished in that argument.
0:16:39 > 0:16:43Europe is a community of nations dedicated towards one goal.
0:16:45 > 0:16:47May we share the joke, Humphrey?
0:16:47 > 0:16:49Oh, Minister, let's look at this objectively.
0:16:49 > 0:16:53It is a game played for national interests and always was.
0:16:53 > 0:16:55Why do you suppose we went into it?
0:16:55 > 0:16:57To strengthen the brotherhood of free Western nations.
0:16:57 > 0:16:58Oh, really?
0:16:58 > 0:17:01We went in to screw the French by splitting them off from the Germans.
0:17:01 > 0:17:02LAUGHTER
0:17:02 > 0:17:06The whole axis there was France and Germany.
0:17:07 > 0:17:09France and Germany,
0:17:09 > 0:17:13and what those said, the others tended to agree with.
0:17:13 > 0:17:16It was not, though, an idea from the French or the Germans
0:17:16 > 0:17:19that would turn Margaret Thatcher against Europe.
0:17:19 > 0:17:24It was, ironically, an idea that emerged from her very own handbag.
0:17:24 > 0:17:26She wanted to make it easier for companies to do
0:17:26 > 0:17:32business across Europe, to turn the Common Market into a single market.
0:17:32 > 0:17:36The problem was, that would involve watering down the power
0:17:36 > 0:17:41of governments to block, or veto, proposals they didn't like.
0:17:43 > 0:17:45The grand ambition of a Europe without frontiers
0:17:45 > 0:17:47had become logjammed.
0:17:48 > 0:17:52Countries were looking after their own, protecting their industries
0:17:52 > 0:17:57not respecting the rules. At national borders, cash was king.
0:17:57 > 0:17:59I'll be there for a day or two days.
0:17:59 > 0:18:01At times, you might be able to get out of it
0:18:01 > 0:18:03with a little coffee money.
0:18:03 > 0:18:05What does coffee money mean?
0:18:05 > 0:18:07Everybody knows what coffee money means.
0:18:07 > 0:18:09Be a bit thick if...
0:18:10 > 0:18:12It's a backhander.
0:18:12 > 0:18:15Margaret Thatcher's ambition was not just to do away with coffee money,
0:18:15 > 0:18:19but to lift all other barriers to free trade.
0:18:19 > 0:18:22The historic ambition is to sweep away the frontiers,
0:18:22 > 0:18:25visible and invisible, that still separate the nations
0:18:25 > 0:18:27of the community.
0:18:27 > 0:18:31- NICK CLEGG:- If you have a marketplace, which is bound by common rules,
0:18:31 > 0:18:34then, of course, logic dictates that you can't, sort of,
0:18:34 > 0:18:36pick and choose the rules.
0:18:36 > 0:18:39If you don't have a set of rules which are incumbent on everyone
0:18:39 > 0:18:42to follow, then the whole thing falls apart and that,
0:18:42 > 0:18:43ironically, of course,
0:18:43 > 0:18:46was at the heart of a British initiative -
0:18:46 > 0:18:47the single market.
0:18:47 > 0:18:50MUSIC: Don't You (Forget About Me) by Simple Minds
0:18:50 > 0:18:52The man in charge of securing the powers Brussels needed
0:18:52 > 0:18:55to enforce and police the single market
0:18:55 > 0:18:57was the European Commission's new president, Jacques Delors,
0:18:57 > 0:18:59a French socialist.
0:19:01 > 0:19:04For Delors, a single market was just as much
0:19:04 > 0:19:07about the rights of workers as business -
0:19:07 > 0:19:09the message he would take to Thatcher's enemies
0:19:09 > 0:19:10in the trade unions.
0:19:12 > 0:19:13Jacques Delors is no pushover.
0:19:14 > 0:19:19Or, as we say in French, "Il ne pas un pushover."
0:19:19 > 0:19:21LAUGHTER
0:19:21 > 0:19:23But it was another Delors plan that would
0:19:23 > 0:19:25outrage Mrs Thatcher's supporters.
0:19:25 > 0:19:30He wanted to revive the idea of a single European currency.
0:19:30 > 0:19:35Ironically, he'd been backed by her to be the top man in Brussels,
0:19:35 > 0:19:38but theirs was a relationship which quickly soured.
0:19:42 > 0:19:43After one summit in London,
0:19:43 > 0:19:46she wouldn't let him get a word in edgeways.
0:19:47 > 0:19:49No, I think it's much simpler than that.
0:19:49 > 0:19:52She answered every question
0:19:52 > 0:19:54and never let Delors say a word,
0:19:54 > 0:19:56which was not really nice to him.
0:19:56 > 0:19:59We did have a brief discussion, obviously...
0:20:00 > 0:20:05Our policy on that has not changed.
0:20:05 > 0:20:08'She quite simply forgot that Mr Delors was there.'
0:20:08 > 0:20:10I missed the beginning of your...
0:20:10 > 0:20:13'And then, when she did finally remember,'
0:20:13 > 0:20:15Delors, I think, was sufficiently miffed by having
0:20:15 > 0:20:18been hitherto ignored and excluded, not to wish to play much part
0:20:18 > 0:20:20in the proceedings.
0:20:20 > 0:20:23Monsieur Delors, I'm sure you'd like to say something about that.
0:20:23 > 0:20:25If not, would you say it anyway?
0:20:25 > 0:20:27LAUGHTER
0:20:27 > 0:20:29No, no, no, no.
0:20:29 > 0:20:31I am obliged to such discretion.
0:20:33 > 0:20:35And he looked up, waking up,
0:20:35 > 0:20:37he probably hadn't been listening to the English.
0:20:37 > 0:20:40It's quite hard to listen in a different language,
0:20:40 > 0:20:42and he didn't say anything.
0:20:42 > 0:20:45Do you mean you can refuse to talk to them?
0:20:45 > 0:20:47LAUGHTER
0:20:47 > 0:20:50Well, would you very kindly confirm that what I said
0:20:50 > 0:20:53was absolutely strictly accurate and...
0:20:53 > 0:20:55LAUGHTER
0:20:55 > 0:20:57..that you are looking forward to this and rising...
0:20:57 > 0:20:59LAUGHTER
0:20:59 > 0:21:03..and rising to the challenge it represents
0:21:03 > 0:21:05and you will hope to solve it during your coming two years
0:21:05 > 0:21:08- as presidency of the Commission? - LAUGHTER
0:21:08 > 0:21:09I hope.
0:21:09 > 0:21:10I hope.
0:21:10 > 0:21:13'She misinterpreted his silence and said...'
0:21:13 > 0:21:15I had no idea you were such a strong, silent man.
0:21:15 > 0:21:17LAUGHTER
0:21:17 > 0:21:21'He understood that, and he thought it was addressed at his expense.'
0:21:21 > 0:21:26So that both sides had caused each other offence quite inadvertently.
0:21:26 > 0:21:29Delors is the kind of guy who is not pleased with this
0:21:29 > 0:21:32kind of joke, and he didn't speak.
0:21:48 > 0:21:51To keep Delors and his grand schemes under control,
0:21:51 > 0:21:54Thatcher sent one of her own Cabinet to Brussels.
0:21:54 > 0:21:56Arthur Cockfield was a former taxman.
0:21:59 > 0:22:01Thatcher thought he was a pen pusher,
0:22:01 > 0:22:03who would be prepared to do her bidding,
0:22:03 > 0:22:05but Cockfield went native,
0:22:05 > 0:22:08backing his new boss, Jacques Delors, instead.
0:22:08 > 0:22:13He explained to Thatcher that the single market meant harmonising VAT.
0:22:13 > 0:22:16I got no reply to this
0:22:16 > 0:22:20and realising, of course, that I wasn't going to get a reply,
0:22:20 > 0:22:23I pressed a little further.
0:22:23 > 0:22:25I said, "It was in the Treaty of Rome
0:22:25 > 0:22:28"and you ought to have read it before you signed it."
0:22:28 > 0:22:30She said, "I didn't sign it."
0:22:30 > 0:22:31I said, "I know you didn't,
0:22:31 > 0:22:34"but you were a member of the Cabinet which did."
0:22:34 > 0:22:37And that also was greeted in total silence.
0:22:37 > 0:22:40The way they needed to get that past Mrs Thatcher,
0:22:40 > 0:22:42which has become very clear now,
0:22:42 > 0:22:45is that Cockfield came back and, with the connivance of others,
0:22:45 > 0:22:48sold this directly to her as a market mechanism.
0:22:48 > 0:22:51She was never aware and never accepted
0:22:51 > 0:22:55how wide the single market was.
0:22:56 > 0:22:59Delors' plans where the most significant changes
0:22:59 > 0:23:02to the European Community ever made.
0:23:02 > 0:23:05Back then, there were only ten members at the table.
0:23:05 > 0:23:08Now, there are almost three times that number.
0:23:08 > 0:23:11But what they, what she agreed in Luxembourg,
0:23:11 > 0:23:14didn't just expand what Europe did,
0:23:14 > 0:23:17it limited any country's veto power to block it
0:23:17 > 0:23:20by expanding so-called majority voting.
0:23:21 > 0:23:24I suppose there are some people who are going to say this
0:23:24 > 0:23:27majority voting means that we could be voted down on important subjects?
0:23:27 > 0:23:31Yes, but on the other hand, we do need to get some of our trade
0:23:31 > 0:23:35and business into the Common Market, which has stopped now because they
0:23:35 > 0:23:38won't agreed to certain standards because one person can veto it.
0:23:38 > 0:23:41So, we need to stop some of those abuses.
0:23:41 > 0:23:46She accepted this very, very big increase in majority voting
0:23:46 > 0:23:49because she thought it necessary in order to get the right decisions
0:23:49 > 0:23:53taken to complete the single market, and I think she was right.
0:23:54 > 0:23:58At the last moment, Mrs Thatcher hesitated about the whole deal.
0:24:24 > 0:24:26She swallowed hard and signed up,
0:24:26 > 0:24:29but how would she persuade her MPs to do the same?
0:24:33 > 0:24:38Simple - brief reporters that nothing much had changed at all.
0:24:38 > 0:24:41The Common Market summit ended late last night in Luxembourg
0:24:41 > 0:24:43after two long days of debate.
0:24:43 > 0:24:45But all that emerged were a few modest reforms
0:24:45 > 0:24:47of the Treaty of Rome.
0:24:51 > 0:24:53The law enacting the transfer of so many powers
0:24:53 > 0:24:57from Westminster to Brussels, the Single European Act,
0:24:57 > 0:24:59was rushed through the Commons at top speed.
0:24:59 > 0:25:01The debates lasted just a few days,
0:25:01 > 0:25:06many MPs scarcely knew what they were voting on.
0:25:06 > 0:25:10I can well remember how Mrs Thatcher got that through the Commons.
0:25:10 > 0:25:12We started the debates on a Thursday,
0:25:12 > 0:25:14and MPs don't like complex debates on Thursday
0:25:14 > 0:25:17because they want to go home, and the Whip simply said to us,
0:25:17 > 0:25:19"You've got to keep going forever.
0:25:19 > 0:25:21"If need be, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
0:25:21 > 0:25:24"Keep going until we've got all this through."
0:25:25 > 0:25:27I'm not sure that I gave the Single European Act
0:25:27 > 0:25:31the close attention that I should have done.
0:25:31 > 0:25:33I felt that if Mrs Thatcher,
0:25:33 > 0:25:37with her well-known nationalistic views, was happy with the
0:25:37 > 0:25:41Single European Act, that I ought to be able to go along with it.
0:25:41 > 0:25:44I remember asking her, "Why did you vote for the Single European Act?"
0:25:44 > 0:25:47For, surely, that was the beginning of it, of the real
0:25:47 > 0:25:50change in the European Union, as far as we were concerned.
0:25:50 > 0:25:54She said, "I accept I shouldn't have, I was misled over this."
0:25:54 > 0:25:59This woman is totally in control of every facet of policy.
0:25:59 > 0:26:02She knew that this was a big expansion of majority voting.
0:26:02 > 0:26:05Mrs Thatcher was, in many ways,
0:26:05 > 0:26:06the Trojan horse...
0:26:08 > 0:26:13..the British veto position, which had been held on to
0:26:13 > 0:26:16as long and as vigorously as possible,
0:26:16 > 0:26:19was now substantially abandoned by
0:26:19 > 0:26:24the one British Prime Minister who took, generally speaking,
0:26:24 > 0:26:29the most resolutely critical line against the European Community.
0:26:29 > 0:26:30It is a paradox.
0:26:32 > 0:26:36For decades, opponents of Britain's membership of the European club
0:26:36 > 0:26:39have claimed that it involves sacrificing our sovereignty,
0:26:39 > 0:26:43giving away the power of Parliament to decide what's right for us.
0:26:44 > 0:26:47Over just six nights, it was the House of Commons itself
0:26:47 > 0:26:50which voted to surrender the British veto on proposals
0:26:50 > 0:26:54coming from Brussels on a wide swathe of policy.
0:26:54 > 0:26:56And whose lead were they following?
0:26:56 > 0:26:58Margaret Thatcher's.
0:26:59 > 0:27:01It is etched on my heart.
0:27:02 > 0:27:05I trusted them, I believed in them,
0:27:05 > 0:27:10I believed it was good faith between nations cooperating together.
0:27:10 > 0:27:12So, we got our fingers burnt.
0:27:12 > 0:27:17Once you got your fingers burnt, you don't go and burn them again.
0:27:20 > 0:27:21That pain wouldn't stay hidden
0:27:21 > 0:27:24behind the door of Number Ten for long.
0:27:24 > 0:27:27Mrs Thatcher prepared a speech that would reveal the
0:27:27 > 0:27:28full depth of her fury.
0:27:28 > 0:27:30To be delivered in - where else? -
0:27:30 > 0:27:33Belgium, in the small town of Bruges.
0:27:35 > 0:27:38There had been, initially, a very, sort of,
0:27:38 > 0:27:42pro-European Foreign Office draft,
0:27:42 > 0:27:44which Margaret Thatcher
0:27:44 > 0:27:47had rejected with contempt.
0:27:50 > 0:27:52There had been then a new draft, which had
0:27:52 > 0:27:57emanated from Number Ten, in which she really spoke from the heart
0:27:57 > 0:28:02and it was an extremely xenophobic speech.
0:28:02 > 0:28:06And, of course, the Foreign Office had kittens, understandably.
0:28:07 > 0:28:10The Foreign Office was increasingly reluctant as the awful truth
0:28:10 > 0:28:14of what was going to emerge in Bruges dawned upon it.
0:28:14 > 0:28:17And it made some valiant attempts to get the draft changed.
0:28:19 > 0:28:21By the time Thatcher arrived in Belgium,
0:28:21 > 0:28:24the Foreign Office had managed to get one or two emollient phrases
0:28:24 > 0:28:27into the speech, but that wasn't enough.
0:28:29 > 0:28:32Mr Chairman, you have invited me to speak
0:28:32 > 0:28:35on the subject of Britain and Europe.
0:28:35 > 0:28:38Perhaps, I should congratulate you on your courage.
0:28:38 > 0:28:41LAUGHTER
0:28:41 > 0:28:43If you believe some of the things said
0:28:43 > 0:28:47and written about my views on Europe, it must seem rather like
0:28:47 > 0:28:51inviting Genghis Khan to speak on the virtues of peaceful coexistence.
0:28:51 > 0:28:53LAUGHTER
0:28:53 > 0:28:57To try to suppress nationhood and concentrate power at the
0:28:57 > 0:29:00centre of a European conglomerate
0:29:00 > 0:29:02would be highly damaging.
0:29:02 > 0:29:06We have not successfully rolled back the frontiers of the state
0:29:06 > 0:29:10in Britain, only to see them reimposed at a European level,
0:29:10 > 0:29:14with a European superstate exercising a new dominance
0:29:14 > 0:29:15from Brussels.
0:29:15 > 0:29:20Phrases about the "superstate at the heart of Europe",
0:29:20 > 0:29:22"decisions being taken by bureaucracy",
0:29:22 > 0:29:26really challenging all the central institutions of the community,
0:29:26 > 0:29:29they hadn't been used by heads of government in any country
0:29:29 > 0:29:31until that time.
0:29:31 > 0:29:34So, they produced a sense of shock and hostility which,
0:29:34 > 0:29:38in retrospect, look almost surprising.
0:29:41 > 0:29:44Mrs Thatcher feared not just the growing power of Brussels,
0:29:44 > 0:29:46but growing German power too.
0:29:49 > 0:29:52Helmut Kohl, the German chancellor, wanted to reassure her.
0:29:52 > 0:29:54He invited her to visit his home village,
0:29:54 > 0:29:57just over the border from France.
0:29:57 > 0:30:01They'd chew over their differences at his favourite restaurant.
0:30:01 > 0:30:04Not for the first time in Britain's relationship with Europe,
0:30:04 > 0:30:07food was about to take centre stage.
0:30:07 > 0:30:12They had German Saumagen, which is pig's stomach which is stuffed
0:30:12 > 0:30:14with all sorts of goodies.
0:30:14 > 0:30:17It was a rather heavy meal but it was quite good, actually.
0:30:18 > 0:30:24I don't think Mrs Thatcher really relished it very much.
0:30:24 > 0:30:26Unfortunately, we had his favourite dish which was pig's stomach
0:30:26 > 0:30:30which appealed greatly to him, but didn't appeal very much to
0:30:30 > 0:30:33Mrs Thatcher, who chased it rather anxiously around the plate
0:30:33 > 0:30:35with her fork and then tried to conceal it under her knife and fork.
0:30:35 > 0:30:37I noticed.
0:30:40 > 0:30:43I think the entire population had turned out to greet
0:30:43 > 0:30:47Margaret Thatcher, and they burst into song as Germans are apt
0:30:47 > 0:30:52to do, and I was saddened a little bit, because I don't
0:30:52 > 0:30:56think that the Prime Minister was as touched by this scene as I was.
0:30:59 > 0:31:01She grew up at a time when Germany was the enemy and Hitler
0:31:01 > 0:31:03was invading the Rhineland.
0:31:03 > 0:31:06I think that developed in her a feeling that Germany could
0:31:06 > 0:31:08never quite be trusted.
0:31:08 > 0:31:11Secondly, there was a more recent feeling that Germany
0:31:11 > 0:31:15wanted to get its way in Europe - and getting its way was not always
0:31:15 > 0:31:16in tune with our interests.
0:31:16 > 0:31:23It is quite extraordinary how, 20-odd years later, Germany is now,
0:31:23 > 0:31:30you know, by far a long, long way the supreme power within
0:31:30 > 0:31:32the European Union.
0:31:32 > 0:31:35I think a few years ago, you could say Europe was
0:31:35 > 0:31:38dominated by a Franco-German axis
0:31:38 > 0:31:42but now on most issues it's dominated by a German-German axis.
0:31:43 > 0:31:46Chancellor Kohl was well aware that German power was growing
0:31:46 > 0:31:49and that didn't only frighten Mrs Thatcher.
0:31:49 > 0:31:51ORGAN PLAYS
0:31:54 > 0:31:58He took her to Speyer Cathedral to listen to some Bach.
0:31:58 > 0:32:02His message was that closer European integration would mean less
0:32:02 > 0:32:04German national power.
0:32:04 > 0:32:06She thought precisely the opposite.
0:32:11 > 0:32:15In the crypt are the tombs of some of the early Holy Roman emperors.
0:32:15 > 0:32:19While Mrs Thatcher was admiring these visions of an earlier
0:32:19 > 0:32:23European unity, Chancellor Kohl took me off into a corner and said,
0:32:23 > 0:32:28"Look, now she's seen me in my part of Germany by the French border,
0:32:28 > 0:32:33"surely she will finally understand that I'm not German, I'm European."
0:32:33 > 0:32:35I said, "Well, Chancellor Kohl, I'll do my best."
0:32:35 > 0:32:39Off we went back to the aeroplane to take us back to London
0:32:39 > 0:32:42and as we went into the plane, Mrs Thatcher sat down,
0:32:42 > 0:32:45threw herself back in his seat, kicked off her shoes and said,
0:32:45 > 0:32:47"My God, that man is so German."
0:32:51 > 0:32:54Germany was about to get not just more powerful
0:32:54 > 0:32:57but a whole lot bigger. So too was Europe.
0:33:00 > 0:33:04The fall of the Berlin Wall led not just to the reunification
0:33:04 > 0:33:07of a country, but of a continent as well.
0:33:07 > 0:33:11It began a process that would lead to a dozen new countries
0:33:11 > 0:33:15joining the European club and to calls for European integration
0:33:15 > 0:33:17to go faster and deeper.
0:33:20 > 0:33:24Margaret Thatcher's strident opposition to that, her fears about
0:33:24 > 0:33:28the creation of a European superstate, would cost her dear.
0:33:29 > 0:33:31Statement, the Prime Minister.
0:33:31 > 0:33:33Chairman and President of the Commission,
0:33:33 > 0:33:36Mr Delors, said at the press conference the other day
0:33:36 > 0:33:40that he wanted the European Parliament to be the democratic body
0:33:40 > 0:33:41of the community.
0:33:41 > 0:33:43He wanted the commission to be the executive
0:33:43 > 0:33:46and he wanted the Council of Ministers to be the Senate.
0:33:46 > 0:33:49No, no, no!
0:33:51 > 0:33:57Her celebrated "no, no, no" was so manifestly a declaration
0:33:57 > 0:34:01of defiance and, if you like, of UDI on her part
0:34:01 > 0:34:04and...prospectively on Britain's part.
0:34:04 > 0:34:06It was that which finally led to my conclusion that
0:34:06 > 0:34:08I couldn't stay in the same team any longer.
0:34:08 > 0:34:12I find Winston Churchill's perception a good deal more
0:34:12 > 0:34:16convincing and more encouraging for the interests of our nation
0:34:16 > 0:34:18than the nightmare image sometimes conjured up
0:34:18 > 0:34:20by my right honourable friend,
0:34:20 > 0:34:23who seems sometimes to look out upon
0:34:23 > 0:34:28a continent that is positively teeming with ill-intentioned people,
0:34:28 > 0:34:31scheming, in her words, to extinguish democracy,
0:34:31 > 0:34:35to dissolve our national identities, to lead us through
0:34:35 > 0:34:37the back door into a federal Europe.
0:34:37 > 0:34:39OPERATIC SINGING
0:34:42 > 0:34:45Mrs Thatcher, could I ask you to comment?
0:34:45 > 0:34:49Europe had split Margaret Thatcher's party and her Cabinet.
0:34:49 > 0:34:53Her downfall began live on camera in Paris.
0:34:53 > 0:34:57- REPORTER:- Do you feel betrayed...? - Thank you very much.
0:35:20 > 0:35:24Being the awkward squad did become counter-productive.
0:35:24 > 0:35:28The blitzkrieg approach at the beginning when she was able
0:35:28 > 0:35:32to take the others by surprise became progressively less effective.
0:35:32 > 0:35:34It wears out a bit.
0:35:34 > 0:35:38I think that quite a lot of her colleagues began to regard
0:35:38 > 0:35:42it as theatre. I had that quite strong sense.
0:35:42 > 0:35:45They liked it and they missed her when she'd gone
0:35:45 > 0:35:48because they missed the excitement of it.
0:35:48 > 0:35:51Ultimately, it reached the paradoxical
0:35:51 > 0:35:55and unfortunate position where she was a great unifying force.
0:35:56 > 0:36:00Unifying Europe against Britain's interests,
0:36:00 > 0:36:02often very legitimate interests.
0:36:06 > 0:36:09You've got to be prepared to do deals
0:36:09 > 0:36:11and there was nothing being achieved.
0:36:16 > 0:36:18The lady who like to say no might have gone,
0:36:18 > 0:36:21but the ideas she wanted to say no to had not.
0:36:21 > 0:36:26Not least the long-held European dream that as you travelled across
0:36:26 > 0:36:30Europe's borders, you shouldn't worry about whether your wallet or
0:36:30 > 0:36:36your purse was filled with pounds or Deutschmarks or drachma or lire.
0:36:36 > 0:36:40There should instead be a single European currency.
0:36:40 > 0:36:44That dream was to become a nightmare for Margaret Thatcher's successors.
0:36:47 > 0:36:49None more so than John Major.
0:36:49 > 0:36:51He may have changed the message,
0:36:51 > 0:36:55speaking warmly of Britain being at the very heart of Europe,
0:36:55 > 0:36:57but at a summit in the Dutch town of Maastricht,
0:36:57 > 0:37:02he faced a fight to keep the pound to give Britain an opt-out,
0:37:02 > 0:37:07the right to choose whether to join the euro at a later date.
0:37:07 > 0:37:09But the pound had ideas of its own.
0:37:11 > 0:37:13Lamont concedes defeat.
0:37:13 > 0:37:16Britain withdraws from the Exchange Rate Mechanism.
0:37:16 > 0:37:18Markets in chaos. Interest rates are 2% higher.
0:37:20 > 0:37:23On Black Wednesday, Britain was dramatically forced
0:37:23 > 0:37:27out of the Exchange Rate Mechanism, the forerunner to the euro.
0:37:29 > 0:37:31One adviser to the then Chancellor, Norman Lamont,
0:37:31 > 0:37:34still remembers the shock of those events.
0:37:36 > 0:37:40There's a moment when I walked across the camera shot which
0:37:40 > 0:37:43I'm sure I wasn't meant to do. It wasn't like things are now.
0:37:44 > 0:37:47You know, great big podium in the middle of the road
0:37:47 > 0:37:49and everything organised.
0:37:49 > 0:37:51This was quite rough and ready.
0:37:52 > 0:37:56The bit I absolutely recall is the sense I had on that day
0:37:56 > 0:38:00and afterwards, in the aftermath of it, was never again should
0:38:00 > 0:38:04Britain tie our currency into an arrangement like that.
0:38:04 > 0:38:08That had a major impact on young politicians like myself,
0:38:08 > 0:38:10young MPs like myself.
0:38:10 > 0:38:15That made an enormous impact that we must never again get
0:38:15 > 0:38:17halfway in to a...
0:38:19 > 0:38:24..a project of European unity that we didn't really believe in.
0:38:24 > 0:38:27It made me absolutely believe that all ideas of Britain ever
0:38:27 > 0:38:31being part of a single currency, you know, were wrong, are wrong
0:38:31 > 0:38:34and for me it's a real never issue.
0:38:34 > 0:38:37When John Major agreed the Maastricht Treaty,
0:38:37 > 0:38:40he boasted that it was game, set and match.
0:38:40 > 0:38:43He had not just kept Britain out of the euro but also out of other
0:38:43 > 0:38:48plans for what was now renamed the EU, the European Union.
0:38:48 > 0:38:51That's not how many of his own MPs saw it.
0:38:51 > 0:38:54A six-month battle would tear his party apart.
0:38:56 > 0:38:59I suppose in retrospect we might have considered
0:38:59 > 0:39:03whether we should have forced it through very quickly, very speedily.
0:39:03 > 0:39:06But I'm not sure on an issue that has that sort of importance
0:39:06 > 0:39:09that it would necessarily have been the right thing to do.
0:39:09 > 0:39:12I think the scars and bruises of having done that would have
0:39:12 > 0:39:14been very real as well.
0:39:16 > 0:39:19I think there was an error of judgment in allowing as much
0:39:19 > 0:39:23time as people wanted to debate it. Mrs Thatcher knew how to do it.
0:39:23 > 0:39:25She shoved through the single act,
0:39:25 > 0:39:28basically had us sitting up all night on a Thursday, cut
0:39:28 > 0:39:33down the debating time and in theory it was much better for democracy
0:39:33 > 0:39:38what was done, but it was probably worse for the Conservative Party.
0:39:38 > 0:39:42Tory Euro-sceptic rebels joined forces with the pro-Europe
0:39:42 > 0:39:44Labour Party to humiliate the government.
0:39:47 > 0:39:49It was quite an exhilarating experience.
0:39:49 > 0:39:52Rather like when one was at boarding school in my youth, with
0:39:52 > 0:39:56a group of you all beaten together for some minor offence.
0:39:56 > 0:39:59It gave one a sort of collective sense of
0:39:59 > 0:40:01camaraderie which survives after half a century.
0:40:03 > 0:40:05There was a very large majority in the House of Commons for the
0:40:05 > 0:40:07agreement that I had reached in Maastricht.
0:40:07 > 0:40:11The Labour Party and the Liberal party overwhelmingly supported it
0:40:11 > 0:40:15and many people in the Labour Party in the early 1970s had
0:40:15 > 0:40:19voted for their principles on Europe.
0:40:19 > 0:40:21During the passage of the Maastricht Bill,
0:40:21 > 0:40:23the Labour Party did not do that.
0:40:23 > 0:40:25They voted for their own political interests
0:40:25 > 0:40:28and against the principles that they believed in.
0:40:28 > 0:40:32The Labour Party strategy had been to wreck the government
0:40:32 > 0:40:34but not wreck the treaty.
0:40:34 > 0:40:38We had significantly opened wounds in the Conservative Party from
0:40:38 > 0:40:43which I think they will take maybe half a century to recover from.
0:40:43 > 0:40:46I think it was very destructive for the Conservative Party,
0:40:46 > 0:40:51the row over the Maastricht Treaty, where it just took over
0:40:51 > 0:40:56the government between '92 and '97.
0:40:56 > 0:40:59A growing number of Conservatives came to the view that all those
0:40:59 > 0:41:04warnings about the loss of British sovereignty had been proved right.
0:41:04 > 0:41:07Notch by notch, grade by grade, change by change,
0:41:07 > 0:41:11we were going in the direction that Peter Shore, Michael Foot,
0:41:11 > 0:41:15Wedgwood Benn, all these other characters at the time,
0:41:15 > 0:41:17and even Enoch Powell, all said,
0:41:17 > 0:41:20"This is the destination. We don't want to be there."
0:41:21 > 0:41:25The Tory's European wounds cost them the election that followed
0:41:25 > 0:41:29and those wounds had been festering ever since.
0:41:33 > 0:41:36In came another new Prime Minister who thought
0:41:36 > 0:41:38he could make things better with Europe.
0:41:38 > 0:41:41He did, in fact, arrive by aircraft
0:41:41 > 0:41:44though given his reception here, you would have thought Tony Blair
0:41:44 > 0:41:47had walked on water across the North Sea.
0:41:48 > 0:41:51The Dutch were in the presidency of the EU
0:41:51 > 0:41:54and they held an informal meeting at Noordwijk on the
0:41:54 > 0:41:58North Sea coast, where Tony Blair went very soon after the election.
0:41:58 > 0:42:02And, I mean, it was as if Brad Pitt had arrived in town.
0:42:03 > 0:42:07# Things can only get better... #
0:42:07 > 0:42:10I mean, all these other leaders wanted to have their picture
0:42:10 > 0:42:14taken with Tony Blair, so there was a lot of enthusiasm.
0:42:14 > 0:42:16That was then...
0:42:17 > 0:42:19Yeah, no, look... It was a...
0:42:22 > 0:42:25It was obviously... For them, it was a big moment,
0:42:25 > 0:42:28where they felt Britain's relationship would be different.
0:42:28 > 0:42:32It was a big moment for us cos I felt it could be different, too.
0:42:32 > 0:42:35He immediately made it clear he wanted New Labour's new Britain
0:42:35 > 0:42:38to take the lead in building a new Europe.
0:42:38 > 0:42:41Europe itself has got to be a Europe that refocuses,
0:42:41 > 0:42:43that shifts its horizons
0:42:43 > 0:42:47so that it's focusing on the things that really matter to the people.
0:42:47 > 0:42:52The very basic issues of jobs, and industry, the environment.
0:42:52 > 0:42:58Tony Blair arrived young, energetic, extremely good at presentation
0:42:58 > 0:43:02and with an enormous majority, and for a couple of years,
0:43:02 > 0:43:05he could have done what he wanted.
0:43:08 > 0:43:11In fact, those early years were spent wrestling over
0:43:11 > 0:43:13whether Britain should scrap the pound
0:43:13 > 0:43:16and adopt Europe's new single currency instead.
0:43:17 > 0:43:21Politically, the case for joining is overwhelming because politically,
0:43:21 > 0:43:24it's best for Britain to be at the centre of Europe.
0:43:24 > 0:43:27Economically, it isn't, and that's our problem.
0:43:33 > 0:43:36The euro was launched to replace the franc and the Deutschmark
0:43:36 > 0:43:38but not the pound.
0:43:38 > 0:43:40Once again, Europe celebrated moves
0:43:40 > 0:43:42to ever-closer union without Britain.
0:43:43 > 0:43:47This was one party, though, most are glad they missed.
0:43:48 > 0:43:51The union will now stretch from Estonia on the borders with
0:43:51 > 0:43:56Russia in the north, all the way down to Cyprus in the Mediterranean.
0:43:56 > 0:44:01One other huge change was coming. The EU welcomed in 12 new members.
0:44:01 > 0:44:05..cross-border handshakes to more eccentric euros stunts...
0:44:05 > 0:44:09The countries which had been cut off by the Berlin Wall were
0:44:09 > 0:44:11queueing up to join.
0:44:11 > 0:44:14Slovenian parachutists descended on Italian
0:44:14 > 0:44:18and Austrian diplomats high up in their newly opened border.
0:44:18 > 0:44:22The EU would gain 100 million new citizens with new rights to
0:44:22 > 0:44:25live and travel and work where they liked,
0:44:25 > 0:44:28with consequences for them and us, too.
0:44:30 > 0:44:34Poland, early morning October 2004.
0:44:34 > 0:44:37A group of men are gathering, ready to come to Britain.
0:44:37 > 0:44:41Last May, their country joined the European Union.
0:44:41 > 0:44:43Now they have the right to work here.
0:44:45 > 0:44:48- TRANSLATION:- I'm happy that I am leaving to work.
0:44:48 > 0:44:50Work normally, for normal money.
0:44:52 > 0:44:55I was very pleasantly surprised that Britain didn't take
0:44:55 > 0:45:00advantage of its right to impose a seven-year transitional period.
0:45:01 > 0:45:06We got evidence that if we lifted the immediate restrictions
0:45:06 > 0:45:10on free movement, rather than having a phase-in period of seven years,
0:45:10 > 0:45:14the net effect on migration to the UK would only be 13,000.
0:45:14 > 0:45:17There were hundreds of thousands of people,
0:45:17 > 0:45:20rather than what we thought, so it was a big, big difference.
0:45:22 > 0:45:24Germany didn't allow Poles
0:45:24 > 0:45:28and other East Europeans to work in their country for seven years.
0:45:28 > 0:45:31It was a power Tony Blair's government had,
0:45:31 > 0:45:33but chose not to use.
0:45:33 > 0:45:37One of Blair's ministers said, it would have been unneighbourly.
0:45:37 > 0:45:40I personally don't think we have suffered from these people
0:45:40 > 0:45:43coming in. I think on the contrary.
0:45:43 > 0:45:45They've come in.
0:45:45 > 0:45:48They are hard-working, determined, committed people,
0:45:48 > 0:45:50and have really worked hard in this country.
0:45:50 > 0:45:52The research was wrong
0:45:52 > 0:45:55and our judgment based on the research was heroically wrong.
0:45:57 > 0:46:01Another consequence of so many new countries joining the EU,
0:46:01 > 0:46:05was that its decision-making processes needed an overhaul.
0:46:06 > 0:46:09The former French President, Valery Giscard d'Estaing,
0:46:09 > 0:46:11was given the job.
0:46:11 > 0:46:14He decided to write a new constitution for Europe
0:46:14 > 0:46:18with greater powers for its parliament, its own foreign minister
0:46:18 > 0:46:20and even its own president.
0:46:20 > 0:46:23It was a folie de grandeur by Giscard d'Estaing,
0:46:23 > 0:46:25who was full of folies de grandeur.
0:46:25 > 0:46:28So, that was why it was ridiculous to call it a constitution.
0:46:28 > 0:46:31It would have to be called a constitution but it was...
0:46:31 > 0:46:34People who wanted to turn Europe into a sort of country.
0:46:34 > 0:46:37It was to put the house in order.
0:46:39 > 0:46:43And everyone agreed that we needed
0:46:43 > 0:46:49to have something more organised and better defined.
0:46:49 > 0:46:50I knew from the very outset
0:46:50 > 0:46:53this constitution was going to be very difficult.
0:46:53 > 0:46:56I didn't think it was a sensible thing to do, frankly,
0:46:56 > 0:46:57and I argued against it.
0:46:59 > 0:47:02But the gossip at Westminster was that Tony Blair secretly
0:47:02 > 0:47:07coveted the job to become the new president of Europe himself,
0:47:07 > 0:47:11after he'd finally handed over Number Ten to Gordon Brown.
0:47:11 > 0:47:14It is, of course, rumoured that one Tony Blair may now be
0:47:14 > 0:47:17interested in the job.
0:47:17 > 0:47:20Now, if that makes us uncomfortable on these benches,
0:47:20 > 0:47:23just imagine how it is viewed in Downing Street.
0:47:23 > 0:47:26It is the funniest speech I've ever heard in the House of Commons.
0:47:26 > 0:47:29Then the awful moment when the motorcade of the
0:47:29 > 0:47:32President of Europe sweeps into Downing Street.
0:47:32 > 0:47:36The gritted teeth and bitten nails, the Prime Minister
0:47:36 > 0:47:39emerging from his door with a smile of intolerable anguish.
0:47:40 > 0:47:43The choking sensation as the words "Mr President" are forced...
0:47:43 > 0:47:45LAUGHTER DROWNS OUT SPEECH
0:47:47 > 0:47:49And then, once in the Cabinet Room,
0:47:49 > 0:47:53the melodrama of, "When will you hand over to me all over again?"
0:47:55 > 0:47:57The serious question now was
0:47:57 > 0:48:01whether the people should be given a referendum on the new constitution.
0:48:01 > 0:48:03In public, ministers said no.
0:48:03 > 0:48:07In private, Tony Blair and his Foreign Secretary argued about
0:48:07 > 0:48:09whether to make a dramatic U-turn.
0:48:09 > 0:48:13I found it more and more difficult to make the case that
0:48:13 > 0:48:15I was mouthing in public,
0:48:15 > 0:48:19and formed the view that we should commit ourselves to a referendum.
0:48:19 > 0:48:23I went to a meeting with Tony Blair in Chequers in the early
0:48:23 > 0:48:27months of 2004, and put this view to him.
0:48:27 > 0:48:33This was not a popular thing for me to say, there was quite a ding-dong.
0:48:33 > 0:48:36It was Jack Straw's initiative,
0:48:36 > 0:48:40and I think, in a weak moment, Tony Blair agreed.
0:48:40 > 0:48:44In the end, it became impossible to resist the public pressure
0:48:44 > 0:48:48for a referendum on it, although I conceded it with great misgiving.
0:48:49 > 0:48:53Putting his misgivings to one side, Tony Blair went to the
0:48:53 > 0:48:54House of Commons to announce
0:48:54 > 0:48:58Britain's first referendum on Europe for 30 years.
0:48:59 > 0:49:02Once and for all, whether this country, Britain,
0:49:02 > 0:49:07wants to be at the centre and heart of European decision-making or not,
0:49:07 > 0:49:11time to decide whether our destiny lies as a leading partner
0:49:11 > 0:49:14and ally of Europe or on its margins,
0:49:14 > 0:49:16let the Euro-sceptics, whose true agenda we will expose,
0:49:16 > 0:49:18make their case.
0:49:18 > 0:49:22Let the issue be put and let the battle be joined.
0:49:22 > 0:49:25I'll never forget the drama of the moment in the House of Commons.
0:49:25 > 0:49:28Tony Blair saying, "Let battle be joined."
0:49:28 > 0:49:31Les Francais rejettent la constitution europeenne...
0:49:33 > 0:49:35But the British people did not get a vote,
0:49:35 > 0:49:37because the French got in first.
0:49:37 > 0:49:40They threw out the constitution in their own referendum.
0:49:45 > 0:49:49And so too did the Dutch, proving again that the public don't
0:49:49 > 0:49:54always do what the pundits and the politicians expect them to do.
0:49:54 > 0:49:55Well, battle never was joined.
0:49:55 > 0:49:58Because the European constitution was defeated in France
0:49:58 > 0:50:01and the Netherlands, and no referendum took place.
0:50:04 > 0:50:06The European constitution might have died,
0:50:06 > 0:50:09and many of its key ideas were simply copied
0:50:09 > 0:50:13and bound into a new document, now called the Lisbon Treaty.
0:50:16 > 0:50:17They changed some bits,
0:50:17 > 0:50:20but in the end, the structure and the fundamental things
0:50:20 > 0:50:21were the same.
0:50:23 > 0:50:27The same mess of a dish - just reheated and renamed.
0:50:29 > 0:50:31I was asked, from time to time, how closely does
0:50:31 > 0:50:36this resemble your constitution treaty, which...
0:50:36 > 0:50:40the Labour Party promised would be subject to referendum,
0:50:40 > 0:50:43and I found it difficult to answer these questions.
0:50:45 > 0:50:48On the whole, I kept my trap shut.
0:50:48 > 0:50:52Ministers insisted that this new EU treaty was not
0:50:52 > 0:50:54the same as the constitution,
0:50:54 > 0:50:58so they could sign it without having a referendum on it first.
0:50:58 > 0:51:01I was very struck by the extent to which people really
0:51:01 > 0:51:04did think they had been lied to, that they
0:51:04 > 0:51:06had been promised a referendum,
0:51:06 > 0:51:07and then on a pretext,
0:51:07 > 0:51:10the promise of the referendum had been withdrawn.
0:51:10 > 0:51:14I think that did then create a kind of grievance that wasn't very
0:51:14 > 0:51:16readily going to go away.
0:51:16 > 0:51:18People, not just Conservatives, I think
0:51:18 > 0:51:21many others felt cheated of a referendum, because the
0:51:21 > 0:51:25Lisbon Treaty had many similarities to the European constitution.
0:51:25 > 0:51:28When people say, "Oh, yeah, but there was a huge explosion
0:51:28 > 0:51:31"of feeling about this amongst the British people," I... Bull dust.
0:51:31 > 0:51:32I mean, no, there wasn't.
0:51:32 > 0:51:35There was a huge explosion of feeling amongst the very
0:51:35 > 0:51:39people that have driven the referendum onto the agenda today.
0:51:41 > 0:51:44Just like all those who'd come before, Tony Blair's promise that
0:51:44 > 0:51:49things would get better in Europe had turned into, well, dust.
0:51:50 > 0:51:54After 13 years of Labour came the Coalition, which agreed to hold
0:51:54 > 0:52:00a referendum, but only if new powers were being transferred to Brussels.
0:52:00 > 0:52:03Its leaders agreed that Europe was like a ticking bomb.
0:52:03 > 0:52:08Their aim should simply be to avoid it blowing up in their faces.
0:52:10 > 0:52:14The irony, of course, looking back on it, is that David Cameron
0:52:14 > 0:52:17and I, I remember, in those sleepless discussions
0:52:17 > 0:52:19that took place after
0:52:19 > 0:52:23the inconclusive result of the 2010 general election,
0:52:23 > 0:52:26we warmly agreed with each other that the one thing
0:52:26 > 0:52:28we didn't want to blight the Coalition government,
0:52:28 > 0:52:31or to loom particularly large, was the subject of Europe.
0:52:33 > 0:52:37Europe as an issue going away? That WAS wishful thinking.
0:52:37 > 0:52:41The Eurozone crisis brought protesters out onto the streets there -
0:52:41 > 0:52:45and here, Euro-sceptics wanted to shout, "We told you so!"
0:52:47 > 0:52:49Quick fag, and then we'll be on our way.
0:52:50 > 0:52:55Enter Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader, who set out to surf
0:52:55 > 0:53:00a wave of disenchantment with a grin and a pint.
0:53:00 > 0:53:03I tell you, I've been up half the night, this is absolutely marvellous.
0:53:03 > 0:53:07Ukip has acted as a catalyst, in a sense, to force this
0:53:07 > 0:53:10debate, in part, to the surface.
0:53:10 > 0:53:13Sometimes you need those things, otherwise they become conspiracy
0:53:13 > 0:53:17of elites, really, that just don't want to discuss the subject.
0:53:17 > 0:53:22There was a legitimate demand fuelling the rise of Ukip,
0:53:22 > 0:53:25creating great problems within the Conservative Party.
0:53:25 > 0:53:30A completely legitimate demand for a referendum on "In-Out",
0:53:30 > 0:53:34- which many of us sympathised with. - Look, you know, this is...
0:53:34 > 0:53:36I'm going to say something that you shouldn't say,
0:53:36 > 0:53:40but this stuff about, you know, you've got the elites here, you've got the people here,
0:53:40 > 0:53:43a lot of who are driving the people are people,
0:53:43 > 0:53:45they're just a different elite, if you want to put it that way.
0:53:45 > 0:53:47They've got a different perspective.
0:53:47 > 0:53:50'Is this the man who's broken the mould of British politics?'
0:53:50 > 0:53:52Go, Nigel, go!
0:53:52 > 0:53:56Former city trader, now professional politician,
0:53:56 > 0:53:59Farage posed as the scourge of the elites.
0:53:59 > 0:54:01We were told that when we had a president,
0:54:01 > 0:54:05we'd see a giant, global, political figure.
0:54:05 > 0:54:09Remember that job Blair was rumoured to want - President of Europe?
0:54:09 > 0:54:10Well, he didn't get it.
0:54:10 > 0:54:13It had gone instead to a relatively unknown Belgian,
0:54:13 > 0:54:17Herman Van Rompuy, who Nigel Farage now had in his sights.
0:54:17 > 0:54:19Well, I'm afraid what we got was you.
0:54:19 > 0:54:25And I don't want to be rude, but you have the charisma of a damp rag
0:54:25 > 0:54:28and the appearance of a low-grade bank clerk.
0:54:28 > 0:54:31And the question I want to ask, that we're all going to ask, is,
0:54:31 > 0:54:35who are you?! I'd never heard of you.
0:54:35 > 0:54:37Nobody in Europe had ever heard of you.
0:54:37 > 0:54:41Rude? All I did was, I said, "Who are you?! I'd never heard of you."
0:54:41 > 0:54:46I would like to ask you, President, who voted for you?
0:54:46 > 0:54:50And I think I was basically pointing out, in a...
0:54:50 > 0:54:54not aggressive, but a slightly mickey-taking way, the complete lack
0:54:54 > 0:54:58of democratic accountability that exists within these institutions.
0:54:58 > 0:55:01We don't know you, we don't want you,
0:55:01 > 0:55:05and the sooner you're put out to grass, the better.
0:55:05 > 0:55:08'For my pains, I was fined,'
0:55:08 > 0:55:11and I was told by the President of the Parliament, when he imposed this
0:55:11 > 0:55:15fine, "Nigel, you cannot criticise Mr Van Rompuy
0:55:15 > 0:55:17"because he hasn't been elected."
0:55:17 > 0:55:20I said, "I know, that's the point I was making."
0:55:21 > 0:55:24As Ukip won a bigger and bigger share of the vote,
0:55:24 > 0:55:27more and more Conservative MPs turned on their leader
0:55:27 > 0:55:30and demanded he delivered an "In-Out" referendum.
0:55:30 > 0:55:32# Another one bites the dust. #
0:55:32 > 0:55:36If you look across the political battlefield in Britain, I think
0:55:36 > 0:55:39you could see growing pressure for a referendum.
0:55:39 > 0:55:43Parties thinking, "How do we try and put this issue beyond doubt?
0:55:43 > 0:55:48"How do we restore the link between Europe, this issue,
0:55:48 > 0:55:52"and the British public?" Because it was growing more distant.
0:55:53 > 0:55:57So it was that David Cameron made a speech on the EU which could
0:55:57 > 0:55:59change Britain's history.
0:55:59 > 0:56:02He pledged to renegotiate Britain's relationship with it
0:56:02 > 0:56:06and then hold a referendum, just what his predecessor,
0:56:06 > 0:56:08Harold Wilson, had done 40 years earlier.
0:56:09 > 0:56:12When we have negotiated that new settlement,
0:56:12 > 0:56:15we will give the British people a referendum.
0:56:15 > 0:56:17As is the nature of these speeches, it is
0:56:17 > 0:56:20often just a few phrases or a few sentences which are remembered
0:56:20 > 0:56:22afterwards, and it was the shift in his stance as
0:56:22 > 0:56:26leader of the Conservative Party, on the issue of the referendum,
0:56:26 > 0:56:29for which the Bloomberg speech will be remembered.
0:56:29 > 0:56:30The famous Bloomberg speech,
0:56:30 > 0:56:33that was all about getting Ukip off his back.
0:56:33 > 0:56:37He feared defections on his backbenches. He was right.
0:56:37 > 0:56:41To stay in the European Union on these new terms,
0:56:41 > 0:56:43or to come out altogether.
0:56:43 > 0:56:47It will be an "In-Out" referendum.
0:56:48 > 0:56:52David Cameron then found himself in the same boat as Harold Wilson,
0:56:52 > 0:56:55dependent on a German chancellor to deliver him
0:56:55 > 0:56:59a better deal for Britain in Europe.
0:56:59 > 0:57:02Angela Merkel warned Cameron that if he asked for too much,
0:57:02 > 0:57:04he'd have to jump ship.
0:57:06 > 0:57:10We do now all have a vote on our future in the EU, but not
0:57:10 > 0:57:13because of something that's happened in Europe, not the migration crisis,
0:57:13 > 0:57:15not because of the problems in the Eurozone,
0:57:15 > 0:57:19not because of some new European treaty, but because a British
0:57:19 > 0:57:23Prime Minister wants to resolve our future in Europe
0:57:23 > 0:57:25once and for all.
0:57:25 > 0:57:30But will this referendum resolve anything more than the last one?
0:57:30 > 0:57:35A referendum now will clear the air for quite a long time to come.
0:57:35 > 0:57:37- But not for ever. - This is a very, very big moment.
0:57:37 > 0:57:41I mean, if Britain votes to leave and does so clearly,
0:57:41 > 0:57:44there will be other member states of the European Union saying,
0:57:44 > 0:57:46"Do you know what, actually, that's what we want, too."
0:57:46 > 0:57:49I'm a democrat, I believe in not just the sovereignty
0:57:49 > 0:57:52of Parliament, but the sovereignty of the British people.
0:57:52 > 0:57:56I think the time has come when it is right to make this choice.
0:57:56 > 0:58:00The trouble with Britain's relations with Europe has always lain
0:58:00 > 0:58:03with the politicians and not with the public.
0:58:03 > 0:58:06That's been the history of decade after decade after decade,
0:58:06 > 0:58:09but nobody ever seems to learn.
0:58:10 > 0:58:12Is Europe them or us?
0:58:12 > 0:58:15They have failed to resolve that question.
0:58:16 > 0:58:20Prenez garde! Je vais parler francais.
0:58:20 > 0:58:22CHEERING
0:58:22 > 0:58:24We have a different history,
0:58:24 > 0:58:27we have ties and links which run across the whole world.
0:58:27 > 0:58:31Are you prepared to accept the verdict of the people on Thursday?
0:58:33 > 0:58:37Is Europe stronger with Britain a member?
0:58:37 > 0:58:40- Yes.- No, no.
0:58:40 > 0:58:42Non. Merci beaucoup.
0:58:46 > 0:58:49It won't now be the politicians who will decide.