0:00:06 > 0:00:08Hello, and welcome to Inside Versailles.
0:00:08 > 0:00:11So, Greg, Henriette, she's had a miscarriage,
0:00:11 > 0:00:14she's been shot at and now she's off to negotiate a treaty?
0:00:14 > 0:00:18- Yeah, it's a busy week.- Busy stuff. - Definitely. It's very difficult stuff.
0:00:18 > 0:00:20- But thankfully, we are joined by Dr Phil McCluskey...- Hello, Phil.
0:00:20 > 0:00:23..who knows all about this kind of thing.
0:00:23 > 0:00:26So, Henriette-Anne, sent off to England as a diplomat. Is that rare
0:00:26 > 0:00:31for a woman to be sent off to do these kind of high-level negotiations?
0:00:31 > 0:00:35It's relatively rare, but I think we have to remember that women
0:00:35 > 0:00:39did have a place in diplomacy at this period,
0:00:39 > 0:00:42particularly between England and France, because there's very
0:00:42 > 0:00:46close relations between the Bourbon and Stuart dynasties.
0:00:46 > 0:00:48They were cousins and so,
0:00:48 > 0:00:52Henriette-Anne was somebody who both sides could trust.
0:00:52 > 0:00:54So although Henriette-Anne was brought up at the French court,
0:00:54 > 0:00:58her first language was French, she was actually Catholic. At the same time,
0:00:58 > 0:01:01the English saw her as one of theirs and Charles II, who we've got
0:01:01 > 0:01:04a fabulous portrait of here, he thought she was quite marvellous.
0:01:04 > 0:01:06She was rather a favourite?
0:01:06 > 0:01:08Yeah, they have a very close relationship.
0:01:08 > 0:01:11We know they were very close and corresponded a lot.
0:01:11 > 0:01:16The correspondence still exists and he is very, very fond
0:01:16 > 0:01:20of her and I think it's fair to say that
0:01:20 > 0:01:23he didn't really like anybody in the world better than her.
0:01:23 > 0:01:26So she was his favourite? You can see quite a lot of similarities
0:01:26 > 0:01:28between Louis and Charles, couldn't you?
0:01:28 > 0:01:31They both liked mistresses and they both liked money and they both liked glory!
0:01:31 > 0:01:33There are some similarities.
0:01:33 > 0:01:36But I think there's two key differences between them.
0:01:36 > 0:01:40The first one is about the context in which Charles finds himself.
0:01:40 > 0:01:43He comes to the throne at the Restoration in 1660. However, there
0:01:43 > 0:01:48are quite severe constraints placed upon him as a ruler by Parliament.
0:01:48 > 0:01:51He's given quite a small amount of money to run the government
0:01:51 > 0:01:54with, and that includes being able to fund the Navy and things like that.
0:01:54 > 0:01:57So basically, he doesn't have a free hand.
0:01:57 > 0:01:59Louis obviously does, because of the system in France.
0:01:59 > 0:02:02- He's a shoestring king?- Indeed.
0:02:02 > 0:02:03And on a personal level,
0:02:03 > 0:02:07he's just not really as good a politician as Louis.
0:02:07 > 0:02:09He's quite devious, people don't trust him.
0:02:09 > 0:02:13Part of the problem with Parliament is that people can't really work with them.
0:02:13 > 0:02:17But also, of course, Charles is in power off the back of a Civil War.
0:02:17 > 0:02:20His father had his head chopped off and Cromwell ruled for
0:02:20 > 0:02:23a good number of years as a Lord Protector.
0:02:23 > 0:02:28And obviously, Louis emerged from the Fronde Civil War as an absolutist monarch.
0:02:28 > 0:02:30So interestingly enough, you have two kings,
0:02:30 > 0:02:35one who has absolute power, and one who is quite nervous of Parliament?
0:02:35 > 0:02:39Yeah. And I think they're both the product of the people who
0:02:39 > 0:02:43came before them, so Charles's father has lost the Civil War,
0:02:43 > 0:02:46whereas during the Fronde, Louis XIV's mother,
0:02:46 > 0:02:49Anne of Austria and Cardinal Mazarin, who was chief minister,
0:02:49 > 0:02:52faced down the opposition and actually succeeded and what
0:02:52 > 0:02:55- emerges is a much stronger crown. - It's fascinating, isn't it?
0:02:55 > 0:02:59Because in the drama, we see Louis saying, "What do you give the king who's got everything?"
0:02:59 > 0:03:02- You give him Catholicism, because that's what he really wants.- Mmm.
0:03:02 > 0:03:06And we do know, don't we, that Charles did have two marriage ceremonies?
0:03:06 > 0:03:09One Protestant and public and the next one secret and Catholic.
0:03:09 > 0:03:12Did that really reflect his attitude towards religion?
0:03:12 > 0:03:16Perhaps. I don't think anybody really knows whether Charles was sincere
0:03:16 > 0:03:19in his desire to convert to Catholicism.
0:03:19 > 0:03:22He ended up doing so on his deathbed, but at this stage,
0:03:22 > 0:03:26he may have just been using it as a kind of bargaining chip with Louis.
0:03:26 > 0:03:29Whether he was sincere or not, we don't know. He was a devious man.
0:03:29 > 0:03:31Sometimes I think he was hedging his bets.
0:03:31 > 0:03:34- He's got one foot in both camps, really.- Exactly.
0:03:34 > 0:03:37And Louis obviously is an absolutist monarch with
0:03:37 > 0:03:39a huge amount of cash, a lot of power.
0:03:39 > 0:03:43How are other kings around Europe reacting to what he's doing?
0:03:43 > 0:03:47Because, obviously, in England it's gone a bit wrong for absolutist monarchs.
0:03:47 > 0:03:50Louis seems to be making a pretty good fist of it.
0:03:50 > 0:03:52Is he actually setting a new example,
0:03:52 > 0:03:55are people trying to learn from him or emulate him?
0:03:55 > 0:04:01Yes, well, because I think France is the dominant power in Europe by this stage,
0:04:01 > 0:04:05Louis's style of kingship is seen as particularly successful.
0:04:05 > 0:04:08It's brought order where there was chaos before,
0:04:08 > 0:04:12a lot of other European rulers admire that.
0:04:12 > 0:04:16A lot of people hate him because they see him as the disturber
0:04:16 > 0:04:18of peace, they see him as a big warmonger.
0:04:18 > 0:04:21But equally, there's a lot of people, including Charles,
0:04:21 > 0:04:24who did admire him and admire his style of ruling.
0:04:24 > 0:04:26Do they all want their own little Versailles?
0:04:26 > 0:04:28Yes, it actually seems so.
0:04:28 > 0:04:32Versailles is a very, very successful statement that Louis makes
0:04:32 > 0:04:36and the other European rulers at this time try to emulate that
0:04:36 > 0:04:37in a lot of ways.
0:04:37 > 0:04:40Charles II actually does a lot of building work at Winchester
0:04:40 > 0:04:43for a big palace there, where he thinks he's going to move his court.
0:04:43 > 0:04:45He makes Versailles at Winchester?
0:04:45 > 0:04:48Indeed, yes, if you can believe such a thing.
0:04:48 > 0:04:52And I suppose the thing we haven't mentioned is that Philippe, Louis's brother,
0:04:52 > 0:04:55they're often falling out over things and once again,
0:04:55 > 0:04:58this is an example where Louis's policy has angered Philippe,
0:04:58 > 0:05:00- because Philippe doesn't want Henriette-Anne to go...- Mmm.
0:05:00 > 0:05:03..and he does quite a lot to try and stop it.
0:05:03 > 0:05:04He complains about it,
0:05:04 > 0:05:08he tries to set limitations about how far into England she can sail.
0:05:08 > 0:05:12Is Philippe a thorn in the side in this? Or is he just being Philippe?
0:05:12 > 0:05:13I think he's just being Philippe.
0:05:13 > 0:05:19He's extremely possessive of her, because of the jealousy with this relationship.
0:05:19 > 0:05:23And as you say, he set certain constraints on her movement while she was over in England,
0:05:23 > 0:05:26so she wasn't really allowed to go much further than Dover.
0:05:26 > 0:05:29But she did, while she was there, have various reunions with her
0:05:29 > 0:05:34family members, Charles obviously, and the Duke of York, her other brother, as well.
0:05:34 > 0:05:37So she has a few days in England getting to catch up,
0:05:37 > 0:05:41- but ultimately, Philippe is demanding her back?- Indeed.
0:05:41 > 0:05:43Ah, always the way. OK, well, thank you so much, Phil.
0:05:43 > 0:05:47I'm afraid we've run out of time on that one. So please, join us next week
0:05:47 > 0:05:50- for more on the inside of Versailles. Bonsoir.- Bonsoir!