0:00:06 > 0:00:09Bonjour, and welcome to Inside Versailles, episode nine.
0:00:09 > 0:00:12It's been pretty tragic for poor old Liselotte.
0:00:12 > 0:00:15A terrible tragedy happened in the Palatinate,
0:00:15 > 0:00:16and that did really happen.
0:00:16 > 0:00:19So, Linda, you came to talk to us earlier about Liselotte
0:00:19 > 0:00:21and when she'd just joined the court.
0:00:21 > 0:00:24Now she's established, but she's in this awful position in which
0:00:24 > 0:00:28her countrymen have all died at the hands of Louis' men.
0:00:28 > 0:00:31That's true. The Palatinate has been razed by Louis XIV's troops,
0:00:31 > 0:00:35and it just shows that, despite the good relationship
0:00:35 > 0:00:37that the two enjoy, Louis XIV
0:00:37 > 0:00:40never lets personal affection get in the way of political advantage.
0:00:40 > 0:00:42So she writes in her letters that she is distraught,
0:00:42 > 0:00:46and yet is powerless, really, to do anything about it.
0:00:46 > 0:00:48So we've got scandal brewing at court.
0:00:48 > 0:00:51Not just murders and poisons, but also witchcraft.
0:00:51 > 0:00:54We can see in this painting here, which is phenomenally lurid
0:00:54 > 0:00:57and ridiculous, you've got the 17th century as a time
0:00:57 > 0:00:59of real witch crazes, even.
0:00:59 > 0:01:02We're coming to the end of a period of time in France from about
0:01:02 > 0:01:071580 to 1680 where there had been a real kind of glut of witchcraft,
0:01:07 > 0:01:11and it seems utterly mystifying to the 21st-century mind
0:01:11 > 0:01:13that people could believe in black magic,
0:01:13 > 0:01:18that they could believe in the Devil present and at work in the world.
0:01:18 > 0:01:21But we have to remember that this is a culture of belief
0:01:21 > 0:01:26and a system of looking at the world that relies upon God,
0:01:26 > 0:01:30and also that relies upon white magic in order to, say,
0:01:30 > 0:01:33protect crops, livestock, for their children's health,
0:01:33 > 0:01:35for their own health.
0:01:35 > 0:01:36And it's no coincidence, then,
0:01:36 > 0:01:41the witchcraft craze of the Medieval Period really gets
0:01:41 > 0:01:44off and running around the same time as the Black Death.
0:01:44 > 0:01:48So, again, you know, a disease that is inexplicable in its own time,
0:01:48 > 0:01:51apart from saying, "The Devil is to blame," or, "God is punishing."
0:01:51 > 0:01:54And then we've got these amatory black masses.
0:01:54 > 0:01:56So that's what we see going on in the show.
0:01:56 > 0:02:00What exactly happened in a black mass and then what do I get for it?
0:02:00 > 0:02:03Well, ideally speaking, you get your heart's desire.
0:02:03 > 0:02:05Whatever it is that you crave, be it favour at court,
0:02:05 > 0:02:08the love of the King, in the case of de Montespan.
0:02:08 > 0:02:11Others get started on a much smaller scale.
0:02:11 > 0:02:14So you have different counts, for instance, at the court,
0:02:14 > 0:02:17the Count de Cessac, I think, who starts off by going to
0:02:17 > 0:02:19someone like Etienne Guibourg and looking for help
0:02:19 > 0:02:21with his gambling debt.
0:02:21 > 0:02:24So, I want a black mass for my heart's desire,
0:02:24 > 0:02:27and I go to Father Guibourg. Who is this man?
0:02:27 > 0:02:31Well, he's a Catholic priest, and he has a very respectable day job.
0:02:31 > 0:02:34And he does occupy some fairly lucrative positions,
0:02:34 > 0:02:36let's say, in Paris at this time.
0:02:36 > 0:02:39- But obviously not lucrative enough. - No.
0:02:39 > 0:02:42Because this is a very good sideline, and one that you
0:02:42 > 0:02:46can weave in with your everyday duties, if you're careful enough.
0:02:46 > 0:02:49This whole craze for witches and craze for black masses does
0:02:49 > 0:02:52testify to how religious the French people really were.
0:02:52 > 0:02:55Well, there's, I suppose, a crossover in terms of belief,
0:02:55 > 0:02:57and the faith that is put in certain things.
0:02:57 > 0:03:03But to directly compare the magic that is performed in black masses
0:03:03 > 0:03:05with that performed in Catholic mass,
0:03:05 > 0:03:08that's the type of thing that will get you into big trouble
0:03:08 > 0:03:09and into the Bastille very, very...
0:03:09 > 0:03:11So, that's heresy.
0:03:11 > 0:03:14Yes. There's a very fine line between orthodoxy and heresy.
0:03:14 > 0:03:17- OK.- Yeah.- So we see Father Guibourg in the drama,
0:03:17 > 0:03:20- and he's a real guy, is what you're saying.- Yes, that's right.
0:03:20 > 0:03:23He's also implicated in some pretty horrible stuff.
0:03:23 > 0:03:26- Basically, the sacrifice of babies. - Mm-hm.
0:03:26 > 0:03:29Is that also grounded in some reality?
0:03:29 > 0:03:31Well, in this so-called magical underworld,
0:03:31 > 0:03:34especially within Paris, there would be very close links between
0:03:34 > 0:03:40women who would supply poisons, midwives, and abortionists.
0:03:40 > 0:03:43So, it is true that a lot of reproductive material,
0:03:43 > 0:03:46for instance, like the caul or the afterbirth,
0:03:46 > 0:03:51would've been used as substances that would be magical, basically.
0:03:51 > 0:03:54But it's a stretch to say that babies were killed...
0:03:54 > 0:03:56I mean, that's the accusation made, isn't it?
0:03:56 > 0:03:59But perhaps that's made by people who are being tortured, or who are,
0:03:59 > 0:04:03sort of, you know, making stuff up in order to save their skins.
0:04:03 > 0:04:07That's true. I mean, we are reliant upon testimony drawn out of torture,
0:04:07 > 0:04:09and that obviously has its problems.
0:04:09 > 0:04:14But it falls in with traditional beliefs about Satanic masses,
0:04:14 > 0:04:18and that newborn babies are involved then, in part of their sacrifices.
0:04:18 > 0:04:21So why would someone like Montespan bother with this?
0:04:21 > 0:04:25Well, she seems to have used it for the first time in 1667,
0:04:25 > 0:04:26and, given that date,
0:04:26 > 0:04:29that indicates that she had met with a great level of success.
0:04:29 > 0:04:32- Later on... - So she gets Louis...- Mm-hm.
0:04:32 > 0:04:34But she has to keep him then, and that's the tricky part.
0:04:34 > 0:04:38So by the end of the 1670s, she's had several children,
0:04:38 > 0:04:42she's rumoured at the Court to have lost her looks, lost her figure,
0:04:42 > 0:04:47she wears long, flowing gowns in order to hide the growing waistline.
0:04:47 > 0:04:49I mean, like anyone else who goes to a tarot reader
0:04:49 > 0:04:51or fortune-teller at the time,
0:04:51 > 0:04:53trying to make connection with the afterlife,
0:04:53 > 0:04:56she is doing everything she possibly can in order
0:04:56 > 0:04:58to keep the attention of the King.
0:04:58 > 0:05:01Well, we've seen Father Guibourg get his comeuppance in the drama,
0:05:01 > 0:05:03and we've got one more episode to see
0:05:03 > 0:05:04what happens to Athenais, as well.
0:05:04 > 0:05:07So it's going to be pretty exciting. But, unfortunately, we've run out of
0:05:07 > 0:05:10time for tonight, so thank you so much for joining us, Linda,
0:05:10 > 0:05:13and I hope you'll join us for the big finale next week.
0:05:13 > 0:05:14- Until then, bon soir.- Bon soir.