0:00:22 > 0:00:24I'm standing in one of my favourite rooms
0:00:24 > 0:00:27in one of my favourite buildings in the world.
0:00:27 > 0:00:28This is the British Museum.
0:00:28 > 0:00:30I've been coming here since I was a little girl,
0:00:30 > 0:00:33when my mum and dad used to drive us down to London
0:00:33 > 0:00:34for an educational day trip.
0:00:34 > 0:00:37The Greeks were always my favourite.
0:00:39 > 0:00:42I was obsessed with the statues and the sculpture,
0:00:42 > 0:00:44the pots, the missing limbs - all of it.
0:00:44 > 0:00:46It's so extraordinary.
0:00:51 > 0:00:53Now the museum is putting on a new exhibition
0:00:53 > 0:00:56about Ancient Greek sculpture which I can't wait to see.
0:00:56 > 0:00:59It's not just going to be for Classics nerds like me
0:00:59 > 0:01:01because it's going to ask - and I hope answer -
0:01:01 > 0:01:05one of the most fundamental questions about all of art -
0:01:05 > 0:01:06what is beauty?
0:01:07 > 0:01:15In this room, you can see 500 years of what Europeans have thought
0:01:15 > 0:01:18were the most beautiful forms of the human body.
0:01:20 > 0:01:24Constructing a statue of yourself or of an ideal athlete
0:01:24 > 0:01:29is saying something about your position near to the gods.
0:01:29 > 0:01:31They made sense of their world
0:01:31 > 0:01:35by using the human body as a bearer of meaning.
0:01:45 > 0:01:47I used to be a stand-up comedian,
0:01:47 > 0:01:50so tonight, I'm going back in time -
0:01:50 > 0:01:52both to my own past when I walk on stage again,
0:01:52 > 0:01:54and to a more distant past,
0:01:54 > 0:01:58as I'll be exploring the Ancient Greeks and their ideas of beauty.
0:01:58 > 0:02:00APPLAUSE
0:02:03 > 0:02:05Ah, thanks very much for coming.
0:02:05 > 0:02:07I am Natalie Haynes, and finally,
0:02:07 > 0:02:11after many years of just almost repeatedly crying,
0:02:11 > 0:02:15the BBC have agreed to let me make a documentary
0:02:15 > 0:02:18about the Ancient Greek world, and specifically,
0:02:18 > 0:02:21they've agreed to let me run around the British Museum after hours,
0:02:21 > 0:02:23having a lovely time, so I'm extremely excited.
0:02:31 > 0:02:33The exhibition I've come to see at the museum
0:02:33 > 0:02:38is called Defining Beauty - The Body In Ancient Greek Art.
0:02:38 > 0:02:40And it's looking at the influence the Greeks still have
0:02:40 > 0:02:43on modern thinking about the human form.
0:02:46 > 0:02:47Most of the really path-breaking
0:02:47 > 0:02:51and historically important sculptures in this exhibition
0:02:51 > 0:02:55actually come from the democratic period of Classical Athens.
0:02:55 > 0:02:58That covers approximately the fifth century BC
0:02:58 > 0:03:01and the first half of the fourth.
0:03:01 > 0:03:05It was 150 years of extraordinary cultural innovation.
0:03:07 > 0:03:10If we're going to talk about beauty in the Ancient Greek world,
0:03:10 > 0:03:12it seems to me that we have to start
0:03:12 > 0:03:16with the Greeks talking about beauty in the Ancient Greek world.
0:03:16 > 0:03:17The nice thing about the Greeks is
0:03:17 > 0:03:19not only do they create extraordinary things,
0:03:19 > 0:03:22but they talk about them, they interrogate them,
0:03:22 > 0:03:24they ask questions about them, and it's constant.
0:03:24 > 0:03:26When they make their extraordinary sculptures -
0:03:26 > 0:03:29their crazily realistic or beautifully idealised sculptures -
0:03:29 > 0:03:31they're not just putting them out there and leaving you to it,
0:03:31 > 0:03:33they're asking questions.
0:03:42 > 0:03:45Now, I think... I don't want to offend any of the others,
0:03:45 > 0:03:50but I feel like if there's one statue which probably everyone knows
0:03:50 > 0:03:54above all others, it must be the discus thrower, the Discobolus.
0:03:54 > 0:03:57Yeah, the discus thrower by Myron.
0:03:57 > 0:04:01So, Myron is demonstrating that sculptors can be philosophers, too,
0:04:01 > 0:04:07and he employs more symmetria in his figures than any other sculptor.
0:04:07 > 0:04:09He was an obsessive measurer
0:04:09 > 0:04:12in order to construct, calculate ideal beauty -
0:04:12 > 0:04:14but there is more than that.
0:04:14 > 0:04:17He also used the balancing of opposites,
0:04:17 > 0:04:19which had been the central theme of natural philosophy
0:04:19 > 0:04:22of the sixth century BC
0:04:22 > 0:04:26in determining the nature of the world and man's place in it.
0:04:29 > 0:04:34One arm extends behind holding the discus, the muscle contracted,
0:04:34 > 0:04:35the other arm hangs free.
0:04:38 > 0:04:40One leg is weight-bearing,
0:04:40 > 0:04:42the other leg is weight-free.
0:04:45 > 0:04:47One set of toes arch up,
0:04:47 > 0:04:49the other set of toes curl under.
0:04:49 > 0:04:54And when you look at the composition of opposites together,
0:04:54 > 0:04:59you see a construction of balance, harmony and rhythm.
0:04:59 > 0:05:05And you also see the arc of a bow running through the arms,
0:05:05 > 0:05:08and then the zigzag of the string attached to that bow,
0:05:08 > 0:05:13pulled as if it were the outline of the right flank.
0:05:13 > 0:05:16And there's this saying of Heraclitus,
0:05:16 > 0:05:19"Bios bios" - life is a bow.
0:05:19 > 0:05:22Life is a continuous entasis,
0:05:22 > 0:05:26a continuous tension between the pushing energy
0:05:26 > 0:05:28and the pulling energy of life.
0:05:50 > 0:05:53As you can see, the Greeks were obsessed with the human body
0:05:53 > 0:05:55and how they could represent it,
0:05:55 > 0:05:58and their ideas - some of which are over 2,500 years old -
0:05:58 > 0:06:01still have a massive impact on how we view ourselves
0:06:01 > 0:06:03and our own body image today.
0:06:05 > 0:06:07I think when you come into the first room of the exhibition,
0:06:07 > 0:06:13and you see the great heroic figures of the discus thrower,
0:06:13 > 0:06:16you are in the world that we now regard - still regard -
0:06:16 > 0:06:22as what the athletic, male, muscular body ought to be.
0:06:22 > 0:06:26And you are really looking at our modern conceptions of the body.
0:06:28 > 0:06:31One of the things about the Greek body in particular
0:06:31 > 0:06:33is that it's kind of moulded our subconscious,
0:06:33 > 0:06:34if you like,
0:06:34 > 0:06:37for thinking about how our bodies are, or how our bodies should be.
0:06:37 > 0:06:40Anyone who's spent time working out, anyone who worries
0:06:40 > 0:06:43about what they eat, anyone who wants to bulk up or slim down
0:06:43 > 0:06:46is in their own way responding to a particular aspect
0:06:46 > 0:06:48that goes all the way back to Ancient Greece.
0:06:48 > 0:06:51No-one goes to the gym to look like a Henry Moore.
0:06:51 > 0:06:55They go to the gym in order to have the ideal body.
0:06:56 > 0:06:59So here's Heracles, demigod and hero.
0:06:59 > 0:07:02His body type is 2,500 years old.
0:07:02 > 0:07:04He doesn't look like he's gone out of fashion to me.
0:07:04 > 0:07:08No, definitely not. I think that is still the type of body that we want.
0:07:08 > 0:07:12Obviously, you can see he's got very strong arms and nice abs.
0:07:12 > 0:07:14We appreciate people who have taken a little bit more time
0:07:14 > 0:07:15with their bodies.
0:07:15 > 0:07:17We're in the age of, like, the gym selfie
0:07:17 > 0:07:19and your image as your currency.
0:07:24 > 0:07:26One of the things that really interests me about Greek sculpture
0:07:26 > 0:07:29is that everyone says, of course, this is deeply naturalistic,
0:07:29 > 0:07:30this is deeply lifelike,
0:07:30 > 0:07:32this is what the body really looks like -
0:07:32 > 0:07:36yet there are all sorts of elements that are deeply non-realistic.
0:07:39 > 0:07:41One of the things people have noticed
0:07:41 > 0:07:43is what they label the iliac crest.
0:07:43 > 0:07:44It's a very strong line,
0:07:44 > 0:07:48a line of ligament that separates the legs from the torso.
0:07:50 > 0:07:53If you try and work out very hard in the gym, you can get that line,
0:07:53 > 0:07:56but you can never get it round the back,
0:07:56 > 0:07:58which is one of the things that you find on Greek sculptures.
0:07:58 > 0:08:01Likewise, that deep groove of the chest is something
0:08:01 > 0:08:04that you can never actually achieve, however hard you try,
0:08:04 > 0:08:07so there's something, kind of, hyper-realistic
0:08:07 > 0:08:09or hyper-naturalistic or hyper-lifelike
0:08:09 > 0:08:11about Greek sculpture.
0:08:13 > 0:08:16And so, once again, I think that Greek sculpture has given us
0:08:16 > 0:08:19an ideal of what the body should be -
0:08:19 > 0:08:22one that's resonated throughout the last 2,000 years-plus
0:08:22 > 0:08:25of Western art history, and yet there are all sorts of fabrications
0:08:25 > 0:08:27and artificial conventions at work here.
0:08:30 > 0:08:33What I wanted to do was talk to you about beauty
0:08:33 > 0:08:35in the Ancient Greek world by talking about what the Greeks
0:08:35 > 0:08:38thought about beauty in their world
0:08:38 > 0:08:41and the right place to do that is to begin with Socrates,
0:08:41 > 0:08:45who is of course the father of Western philosophy.
0:08:45 > 0:08:49Erm, he's kind of a nuisance, I'm not going to lie to you.
0:08:49 > 0:08:51Erm, I mean, brilliant - don't get me wrong.
0:08:51 > 0:08:53He's always called himself "Athens' gadfly",
0:08:53 > 0:08:57he has to sting the body politic into behaving properly.
0:08:57 > 0:09:00He's always asking questions about the world that we live in,
0:09:00 > 0:09:03and his primary question is, "Ti esti?" - "What is it?"
0:09:10 > 0:09:14Amid the rippling pectorals and bulging biceps of this exhibition,
0:09:14 > 0:09:16there's also this little guy.
0:09:16 > 0:09:19He was fascinated by the question, "What is beauty?"
0:09:19 > 0:09:22and his name is Socrates.
0:09:26 > 0:09:31There are statues of Socrates all over the world now,
0:09:31 > 0:09:32and they all look like this.
0:09:32 > 0:09:36He's instantly recognisable with his turned-up snub nose, with the beard.
0:09:38 > 0:09:40Socrates may not have been much of a looker,
0:09:40 > 0:09:44but he was certainly fascinated by beauty, particularly male beauty.
0:09:44 > 0:09:48He felt that a citizen had a genuine moral obligation
0:09:48 > 0:09:52not to let themselves run to seed, to get fat or out of shape.
0:09:52 > 0:09:53I know that seems a little odd,
0:09:53 > 0:09:56cos he's definitely got a slight paunch going on there,
0:09:56 > 0:09:59but obviously he was still very fit,
0:09:59 > 0:10:01or maybe he was just - I can't bear to say it -
0:10:01 > 0:10:02maybe he was a hypocrite.
0:10:05 > 0:10:06It's very interesting, isn't it,
0:10:06 > 0:10:09that the philosopher who really invented the discussion
0:10:09 > 0:10:11of the question, "What is beauty?"
0:10:11 > 0:10:13was himself known to be really rather ugly.
0:10:13 > 0:10:16He's not only short with a rather distorted face
0:10:16 > 0:10:20and possibly rather a snubby sort of nose,
0:10:20 > 0:10:23and he, I think, just grew up as an ugly little boy
0:10:23 > 0:10:26who was fascinated with looking at beautiful people.
0:10:35 > 0:10:36For the Greeks,
0:10:36 > 0:10:39looking beautiful was a physical manifestation
0:10:39 > 0:10:41of being beautiful inside.
0:10:41 > 0:10:44If you looked good, you probably WERE moral.
0:10:50 > 0:10:53That connection between physical outward beauty
0:10:53 > 0:10:55and inner ethical goodness
0:10:55 > 0:10:59is absolutely integral to a Greek idea of the body beautiful.
0:10:59 > 0:11:02In Ancient Greek, the idea is "kalokagathia" -
0:11:02 > 0:11:05a bit of a mouthful, but it means "kalos kai agathos" -
0:11:05 > 0:11:08to be beautiful, to be handsome, is the same as being ethically good.
0:11:08 > 0:11:11And that's an ideal, an idea,
0:11:11 > 0:11:14that again has resonated throughout the longue duree of Western history.
0:11:20 > 0:11:24If you look at the figure, the human figure in Ancient Egypt,
0:11:24 > 0:11:27in Ancient Persia, in Assyria -
0:11:27 > 0:11:31those great empires all have great figural sculpture,
0:11:31 > 0:11:34but all of them clothe the figure,
0:11:34 > 0:11:38and to be shown naked in those cultures is to be humiliated.
0:11:38 > 0:11:41Greece sees the body quite differently.
0:11:41 > 0:11:46The body is entirely something which can be beautiful,
0:11:46 > 0:11:51can be virtuous, and your duty as a citizen
0:11:51 > 0:11:55is to make your body beautiful, and to make your mind virtuous.
0:12:00 > 0:12:04The nude male body was a uniform of the righteous -
0:12:04 > 0:12:07it was nude but not naked.
0:12:07 > 0:12:09Naked is what you are when you're walking down the street
0:12:09 > 0:12:12and suddenly, your trouser elastic goes and your bottom's showing
0:12:12 > 0:12:15in Athens high street. That's naked.
0:12:15 > 0:12:19Or if you behave lewdly without your clothes on, that's naked,
0:12:19 > 0:12:23but when you take off your clothes to exercise,
0:12:23 > 0:12:28or you put on a skin of bronze and go into battle,
0:12:28 > 0:12:30there you are wearing a new uniform,
0:12:30 > 0:12:34a virtuous uniform of the citizen pursuing civic values.
0:12:34 > 0:12:38And the Greeks are unique in this respect.
0:12:40 > 0:12:44So we know the Greeks saw nudity as an honourable state,
0:12:44 > 0:12:48and physical beauty was intimately connected with moral goodness.
0:12:48 > 0:12:51No wonder defining beauty was so important to them.
0:12:54 > 0:12:56It was a subject that the philosopher Socrates
0:12:56 > 0:12:59would discuss in detail in one particular early dialogue.
0:13:01 > 0:13:04The Hippias Major is the dialogue that I want to talk to you about,
0:13:04 > 0:13:08written in 390 and asking the question, "What is beauty?"
0:13:08 > 0:13:09and it takes place between Socrates -
0:13:09 > 0:13:12the man whose only claim to knowledge is to say
0:13:12 > 0:13:14that he knows he knows nothing...
0:13:15 > 0:13:17..between him and Hippias.
0:13:17 > 0:13:19Hippias is a sophist,
0:13:19 > 0:13:22so he's a practitioning philosopher, I suppose.
0:13:22 > 0:13:24And so, Hippias turns up and Socrates says,
0:13:24 > 0:13:26"Hippias, great to see you.
0:13:26 > 0:13:30"I was trying to discuss beauty with a friend of mine the other day,
0:13:30 > 0:13:33"and I couldn't quite do it and I was wondering if you could help."
0:13:33 > 0:13:35Now, you need to understand that whenever Socrates says,
0:13:35 > 0:13:37"I was talking to a friend of mine,"
0:13:37 > 0:13:39- he means him, right? - LAUGHTER
0:13:39 > 0:13:42He has an imaginary friend.
0:13:42 > 0:13:44And so, he says, "Yeah, yeah, I can help," and Socrates says,
0:13:44 > 0:13:46"That's great. You offer definitions,
0:13:46 > 0:13:51"and then I'll pretend to be my hypercritical obnoxious friend...
0:13:51 > 0:13:52LAUGHTER
0:13:52 > 0:13:55"..and critique your ideas. Doesn't that sound like fun?"
0:13:57 > 0:14:00And so, they agree that they'll discuss beauty.
0:14:00 > 0:14:01Socrates says, "Great, you start,"
0:14:01 > 0:14:04and Hippias says, "OK. What is beauty? Erm...
0:14:04 > 0:14:06"A beautiful girl is beautiful."
0:14:08 > 0:14:11Now, you've probably noticed that what he's done there
0:14:11 > 0:14:13is NOT answer the question.
0:14:13 > 0:14:16The question wasn't, "Could you give me an example of something beautiful?" -
0:14:16 > 0:14:20the question was, "What is beauty?" Socrates knows that, too.
0:14:20 > 0:14:23He could say, "Actually, you haven't answered the question,"
0:14:23 > 0:14:26but that would rob him of a chance of a masterclass
0:14:26 > 0:14:27in passive aggression.
0:14:27 > 0:14:28- So... - LAUGHTER
0:14:31 > 0:14:35..he instead says, "Oh, yeah, a beautiful girl is beautiful.
0:14:35 > 0:14:37"That's a great answer, Hippias, I love that.
0:14:37 > 0:14:39"A beautiful girl is beautiful - brilliant, yeah."
0:14:47 > 0:14:50The women, I think it's fair to say, when they're naked,
0:14:50 > 0:14:54look a great deal more erotically charged than the men.
0:14:54 > 0:14:55Why is that?
0:14:55 > 0:14:59Because it is as sexual objects that they're being represented.
0:14:59 > 0:15:01There is no male club equivalent for the women.
0:15:03 > 0:15:09So there are differences of experience implied
0:15:09 > 0:15:13in the naked or nude representation of women.
0:15:16 > 0:15:20Athenian women lived lives very separate from their men.
0:15:20 > 0:15:23It was a curiously divided society.
0:15:23 > 0:15:26Now, Athenian women did not do public athletics,
0:15:26 > 0:15:29and it would have been considered very shocking
0:15:29 > 0:15:31if they'd shown themselves naked in public.
0:15:40 > 0:15:43This is Nereid, she's a sea nymph,
0:15:43 > 0:15:45and she's got wet, not unreasonably.
0:15:45 > 0:15:48Nymphs get a terrible press, I think,
0:15:48 > 0:15:51because their name implies that they are all up for sex all the time -
0:15:51 > 0:15:54hence "nymphomaniac" - but actually, the opposite is true.
0:15:54 > 0:15:59Nymphs are always trying to avoid having sex with male figures
0:15:59 > 0:16:01who are pursuing them - they're always on the run.
0:16:03 > 0:16:06She's wearing clothes, but as you can see,
0:16:06 > 0:16:10they make no difference whatsoever to how naked it makes her look.
0:16:10 > 0:16:14The clothing is so thin, you can see her navel through it,
0:16:14 > 0:16:16you can see the line at the bottom of her belly,
0:16:16 > 0:16:20and the lines of the drapery, if anything, draw our eyes
0:16:20 > 0:16:25down her body to make us gaze at her more longingly.
0:16:25 > 0:16:28The drapery does nothing to hide her modesty.
0:16:28 > 0:16:30If anything, it makes her more erotically charged.
0:16:30 > 0:16:34It's a direct contrast to the way the male statues are shown.
0:16:39 > 0:16:41Anyway, where were we? And then, Socrates says,
0:16:41 > 0:16:44"No, hold on a minute. Is there anything that isn't a beautiful girl
0:16:44 > 0:16:46"which is beautiful, would you say, Hippias?
0:16:46 > 0:16:48"Anything at all, like a horse?"
0:16:48 > 0:16:49Wait, what?
0:16:49 > 0:16:50A what?
0:16:50 > 0:16:54That's your first counter-example of something that's beautiful
0:16:54 > 0:16:56that isn't a beautiful woman is a horse?
0:16:56 > 0:16:58Has it all gone a bit Equus here?
0:16:58 > 0:17:00Well, not Equus, cos that would be Latin. Erm,
0:17:00 > 0:17:01Hippos would be...
0:17:01 > 0:17:03Doesn't matter now. Erm, so, yes,
0:17:03 > 0:17:05he says, "Yes, a horse is beautiful.
0:17:05 > 0:17:07"Yeah, fair play - a beautiful horse can be beautiful."
0:17:07 > 0:17:10And Socrates says, "Well, what about man-made things?
0:17:10 > 0:17:12"A lovely musical instrument like a lyre,
0:17:12 > 0:17:14"or a pot, a beautiful pot - are those beautiful?"
0:17:14 > 0:17:17and Hippias says, "Yeah, those are beautiful."
0:17:29 > 0:17:31Socrates suggests to Hippias
0:17:31 > 0:17:33that beauty can be in all kinds of objects,
0:17:33 > 0:17:35including a two-handled pot.
0:17:35 > 0:17:38Looking at this, you can't help but think he was right.
0:17:38 > 0:17:41This pot is even older than Socrates.
0:17:41 > 0:17:43It dates back from about 480 BC.
0:17:43 > 0:17:47So it would have been ten years old when Socrates was born,
0:17:47 > 0:17:50and it's still absolutely exquisite.
0:17:51 > 0:17:54This particular pot shows a relatively rare study
0:17:54 > 0:17:57of the African body in Greek art.
0:17:57 > 0:18:01It depicts Memnon, the mythical hero and Ethiopian king,
0:18:01 > 0:18:05flanked by his warriors as they fought to defend Troy
0:18:05 > 0:18:06against the Greeks.
0:18:08 > 0:18:11I think the idea was to show that he had transcended
0:18:11 > 0:18:14to becoming godlike, that he really had risen in the ranks
0:18:14 > 0:18:19and fought in battle, and here he was - now he stands before you
0:18:19 > 0:18:21as something of an inspiration.
0:18:21 > 0:18:25He is both black but also part of the Greek identity,
0:18:25 > 0:18:28because there was at that time less of a focus
0:18:28 > 0:18:32on your race being what defined you, and more about strength and ability.
0:18:32 > 0:18:34So I love the idea of looking back
0:18:34 > 0:18:40and seeing a heritage of incredibly strong, able, black heroes.
0:18:40 > 0:18:42This man's looking at him,
0:18:42 > 0:18:45it looks to me with a little envy in his heart, do you think?
0:18:45 > 0:18:49Yeah, it does, doesn't it? It looks like it's where he would like to be!
0:18:49 > 0:18:50That's exactly what I think, yeah.
0:18:50 > 0:18:52- You said he's somebody to be emulated.- Yeah.
0:18:52 > 0:18:55I think it's a point that often gets overlooked
0:18:55 > 0:18:58is that this vase was made in Greece, in Athens,
0:18:58 > 0:19:01and the Greeks were on the other side of the Trojan War.
0:19:01 > 0:19:05- But they still love him that much to celebrate him.- Absolutely, yeah.
0:19:05 > 0:19:06Memnon fought with the Trojans,
0:19:06 > 0:19:09and that's who they've chosen to celebrate on this pot -
0:19:09 > 0:19:12- not their own guys, the other guys.- Yeah!- How rare is that?
0:19:12 > 0:19:13Yeah, I thought it was great,
0:19:13 > 0:19:18because it really does show how respected Memnon was.
0:19:18 > 0:19:21This isn't just some warrior,
0:19:21 > 0:19:25this is one who came in and impressed the enemy so much
0:19:25 > 0:19:27that the enemy crafted a vase in his honour.
0:19:27 > 0:19:30- Yeah, he's a hero to his enemies. - Yeah.
0:19:32 > 0:19:35So, Hippias, he offers one last definition
0:19:35 > 0:19:39before Socrates takes over. He says, "OK, a beautiful life,
0:19:39 > 0:19:42"a fine, beautiful life," - the word is the same in Greek, "kalos" -
0:19:42 > 0:19:45he says, "OK, one of those - that's if you live for a long time,
0:19:45 > 0:19:49"and you're healthy and you're rich, and you bury your parents,"
0:19:49 > 0:19:51- brackets, after they are dead... - LAUGHTER
0:19:51 > 0:19:54"..and you, in turn, will be buried by your children,
0:19:54 > 0:19:56"and you're respected by everyone."
0:20:02 > 0:20:05Even in this exhibition, which is filled with so many
0:20:05 > 0:20:07beautiful, living bodies,
0:20:07 > 0:20:10there's a little bit of death, including this fellow here.
0:20:12 > 0:20:17This is a Roman grave marker from the second century AD,
0:20:17 > 0:20:19and it's written in Greek.
0:20:19 > 0:20:23Beneath the inscription, there is a decomposing body.
0:20:23 > 0:20:28You can see his skull, his ribs, the bones in his arms and legs.
0:20:28 > 0:20:31In other words, we're not seeing a celebration
0:20:31 > 0:20:33of who this person was when they were alive,
0:20:33 > 0:20:37we're seeing who they're rotting away to be now that they are dead.
0:20:37 > 0:20:40And the inscription backs that up.
0:20:40 > 0:20:43It asks the question of a passer-by, "Can you tell who's buried here?
0:20:43 > 0:20:47"Is it Hyllus..." - a very beautiful youth, a friend of Heracles,
0:20:47 > 0:20:51"..or is it Thersites?" - a very plain, ugly man from the Iliad.
0:20:51 > 0:20:55In other words, was this person beautiful or were they ugly?
0:20:55 > 0:20:58It doesn't matter - in death, we're all the same.
0:21:00 > 0:21:03And Socrates says, "OK, I'll offer some definitions. I'll do that.
0:21:03 > 0:21:05"Number one -
0:21:05 > 0:21:08"things that are beautiful need to be appropriate."
0:21:08 > 0:21:10That sounds reasonable.
0:21:10 > 0:21:12He says, "OK, erm...
0:21:12 > 0:21:16"So maybe what's beautiful is a type of pleasure,
0:21:16 > 0:21:19"auditory or visual - auditory AND visual - pleasure.
0:21:19 > 0:21:24"So a beautiful song is beautiful, is fine,
0:21:24 > 0:21:27"a beautiful painting is fine... Yeah, this is great."
0:21:27 > 0:21:28And then Socrates goes,
0:21:28 > 0:21:31"I suppose my friend might have a couple of exceptions..."
0:21:31 > 0:21:33- And Hippias is like, "Oh, come on!" - LAUGHTER
0:21:33 > 0:21:36"Could he overlook them? Could we go?"
0:21:36 > 0:21:39So, he tries one last time, one final roll of the dice.
0:21:39 > 0:21:42Socrates' clinching argument, he says, "And sex?
0:21:42 > 0:21:45"Which feels delightful, it's a very pleasant experience,
0:21:45 > 0:21:46"but it is," - and I quote -
0:21:46 > 0:21:47"a contemptible sight..."
0:21:47 > 0:21:49LAUGHTER
0:21:52 > 0:21:55So in every regard, these men are admirable and desirable,
0:21:55 > 0:21:59and which not-so-six-packed person wouldn't want to look like them?
0:21:59 > 0:22:04There's just maybe one aspect to these statues
0:22:04 > 0:22:07that I think people might not find quite so...
0:22:08 > 0:22:10..ambitious - is that fair? What's that, Natalie?
0:22:10 > 0:22:13- It's the fact that they all have really small genitals.- Do they(?)
0:22:13 > 0:22:15They do, I'm sorry to disappoint you.
0:22:15 > 0:22:16SHE CHUCKLES
0:22:16 > 0:22:19I mean, they could be average, don't judge me.
0:22:19 > 0:22:22Well, once that's been said, nobody's going to deny it, are they?
0:22:22 > 0:22:26But I think they are...
0:22:26 > 0:22:27sexually reduced, let's say.
0:22:27 > 0:22:31- Let's, let's say that.- The sexual charge of the object is reduced
0:22:31 > 0:22:36so as to emphasise the fact that these are not sexual objects.
0:22:36 > 0:22:43They are representations of the nude ideal figure in art.
0:22:55 > 0:22:58So, in the Hippias,
0:22:58 > 0:23:00Socrates suggests that what's beautiful
0:23:00 > 0:23:03should also be appropriate,
0:23:03 > 0:23:08and this figure doesn't look as obviously appropriate
0:23:08 > 0:23:11to an exhibition on the Greek body as some of the other pieces
0:23:11 > 0:23:12as you can see.
0:23:12 > 0:23:14He's a man, quite clearly.
0:23:16 > 0:23:19He's extremely primitive, comparatively speaking.
0:23:19 > 0:23:21He is from the eighth century BC.
0:23:21 > 0:23:27There's no musculature or beauty obvious to it at first glance.
0:23:27 > 0:23:30Instead, he's quite a simplistic figure.
0:23:30 > 0:23:32You can see he has quite spindly arms and legs.
0:23:35 > 0:23:38As for the mystery of why he has an erect penis,
0:23:38 > 0:23:42I think it's meant to convey the enormous trauma
0:23:42 > 0:23:45that this character is undergoing.
0:23:45 > 0:23:52He's probably Ajax, the Greek hero who loses a fight with Odysseus
0:23:52 > 0:23:55for Achilles' armour during the Trojan War.
0:23:55 > 0:23:59He's so traumatised by the loss of face,
0:23:59 > 0:24:02because reputation is everything to Greek heroes,
0:24:02 > 0:24:05that he goes on a killing spree overnight.
0:24:05 > 0:24:08He kills livestock, thinking that they are Trojan enemies.
0:24:08 > 0:24:11He's so humiliated when he realises it the next morning
0:24:11 > 0:24:12that he takes his own life,
0:24:12 > 0:24:15and he does that by driving a sword in to his belly.
0:24:15 > 0:24:19This is the exact moment which this sculpture has caught,
0:24:19 > 0:24:21which makes it especially extraordinary -
0:24:21 > 0:24:24that it's telling a whole story with this tiny, tiny figure.
0:24:26 > 0:24:27It's a strange piece of sculpture.
0:24:27 > 0:24:30I thought, when I first saw it, that I probably didn't like it,
0:24:30 > 0:24:34because it's so much less beautiful than so many other pieces here.
0:24:34 > 0:24:38But the more time I spend looking at it, the more I've taken to him.
0:24:38 > 0:24:41There is something infinitely tragic about him.
0:24:41 > 0:24:43The way his whole body seems to be tensed and strained
0:24:43 > 0:24:46as the knife is coming towards him.
0:24:46 > 0:24:48It's incredibly poignant.
0:25:02 > 0:25:05The Ancient Greeks invented the human body
0:25:05 > 0:25:07as we now understand it.
0:25:07 > 0:25:11They invented the human condition, they invented the human being,
0:25:12 > 0:25:15They took the representation of the human body
0:25:15 > 0:25:21to an extent of importance in our sense of ourselves
0:25:21 > 0:25:26that nobody has been able ever since to forget it or to deny it.
0:25:29 > 0:25:31I think within our Western subconscious
0:25:31 > 0:25:32and within our Western culture,
0:25:32 > 0:25:35we've inherited a Greek ideal of the beautiful figure.
0:25:35 > 0:25:39We're married to this legacy of antiquity for better and for worse,
0:25:39 > 0:25:42and I think we have to recognise that in all sorts of different ways.
0:25:45 > 0:25:48The Greek sculpture of the body
0:25:48 > 0:25:53shapes and changes the way Europeans think about the body today.
0:25:53 > 0:25:56For Europe, what happens in Greece and subsequently
0:25:56 > 0:25:59is the determinate model, and that is the point of the exhibition -
0:25:59 > 0:26:03it changes the way you can look at something you thought you knew.
0:26:04 > 0:26:06So in the end, they agreed that they know nothing.
0:26:06 > 0:26:09They are exactly where they started out, knowing nothing at all.
0:26:09 > 0:26:11The final words of this dialogue,
0:26:11 > 0:26:13Socrates quotes an old Greek aphorism.
0:26:13 > 0:26:16He says it is true that, "khalepa ta kala" -
0:26:16 > 0:26:18"everything beautiful is difficult."
0:26:18 > 0:26:22But it's worth bearing in mind that beautiful objects
0:26:22 > 0:26:24for the Greeks have a resonance that perhaps -
0:26:24 > 0:26:27well, let's say hopefully - they don't always have for us.
0:26:27 > 0:26:31Perhaps my favourite story about any statue in the ancient world
0:26:31 > 0:26:34is about the statue of Aphrodite at Knidos -
0:26:34 > 0:26:36long since gone, I'm afraid -
0:26:36 > 0:26:41which was legendarily beautiful and extremely saucy, to put it mildly.
0:26:41 > 0:26:47So saucy, in fact, that legend has it that a young man fell in love
0:26:47 > 0:26:49with the statue when he went to visit it,
0:26:49 > 0:26:52and he got himself locked in the temple overnight,
0:26:52 > 0:26:55and then had what I think we can euphemistically describe
0:26:55 > 0:26:57as a delightful evening...
0:26:57 > 0:26:58LAUGHTER
0:26:58 > 0:27:04..and then, the next day, proof of his delightful evening...
0:27:04 > 0:27:07was visible on the thigh of the statue.
0:27:07 > 0:27:10I'm trying so hard not to use the word "stain" and it's going so badly
0:27:10 > 0:27:13that I think we're just going to have to accept it.
0:27:13 > 0:27:16And he was so ashamed of his behaviour
0:27:16 > 0:27:19that he ran and threw himself off a cliff and died.
0:27:19 > 0:27:21So the problem with beauty is that it IS difficult,
0:27:21 > 0:27:25and occasionally too alluring, and cliffs, too near.
0:27:25 > 0:27:27So...that's everything.
0:27:27 > 0:27:29APPLAUSE
0:27:40 > 0:27:43When Socrates tried to define beauty,
0:27:43 > 0:27:46the best he could come up with was that it was difficult to define.
0:27:46 > 0:27:49That's exactly how I feel 2,500 years later.
0:27:49 > 0:27:53Like Socrates, I guess, at least I know that I know nothing.
0:27:53 > 0:27:54But Socrates also said
0:27:54 > 0:27:57that the unexamined life was not worth living.
0:27:57 > 0:28:01Asking questions is important, coming up with answers, less so.
0:28:01 > 0:28:04If you do want to ask questions about what beauty really is,
0:28:04 > 0:28:06there are a lot worse places to start
0:28:06 > 0:28:10than with the legacy the Ancient Greeks left to us.