0:00:03 > 0:00:05"Tis maybe someday I'll go back to Ireland
0:00:05 > 0:00:08"If only at the closing of my day."
0:00:08 > 0:00:11That's the opening lines to Galway Bay,
0:00:11 > 0:00:14a crowd-pleasing "all-come-all-you"
0:00:14 > 0:00:18that talks of the beauty of Galway Bay.
0:00:23 > 0:00:26I've already travelled the southern half of the country,
0:00:26 > 0:00:29the Ireland I knew from my youth,
0:00:29 > 0:00:34and now I'm headed north to a land I'm less familiar with.
0:00:34 > 0:00:36The border was a dangerous place.
0:00:36 > 0:00:39'I'll be recalling Northern Ireland's unsung heroes.'
0:00:39 > 0:00:43He signed up with White Star and off he went on Titanic.
0:00:43 > 0:00:47'I want to see how much of that old Catholic prudery has survived.'
0:00:47 > 0:00:51Three, two, one, go!
0:00:51 > 0:00:56'I want to bathe in the glories of great Irish success stories.'
0:00:56 > 0:00:59It was interesting - the journey of traditional Irish dance...
0:00:59 > 0:01:02a little bit of flamenco, a little bit of Broadway.
0:01:03 > 0:01:07'Back in Dublin, I've agreed to subject myself to a grilling
0:01:07 > 0:01:09'from Ireland's father confessor.'
0:01:09 > 0:01:12Did you decide that you do not believe in God, or otherwise?
0:01:30 > 0:01:34I spent the first 30 years of my life here in my own lovely country
0:01:34 > 0:01:37and the next 40 years over the water in England.
0:01:37 > 0:01:41As I set off on the second leg of my journey, I can't help reflecting
0:01:41 > 0:01:46on what the people of these two countries think of each other.
0:01:46 > 0:01:49The English took a very superior view
0:01:49 > 0:01:53that the Irish were not particularly intelligent, they believed in fairies,
0:01:53 > 0:01:55they believed in leprechauns.
0:01:55 > 0:01:57Just as, indeed,
0:01:57 > 0:02:01the Irish continue to have, in some cases,
0:02:01 > 0:02:04a view of the British as being cold,
0:02:04 > 0:02:06stand-offish,
0:02:06 > 0:02:10superior in their attitudes.
0:02:12 > 0:02:15Since there's no great racial difference between the two peoples,
0:02:15 > 0:02:20it's obvious that the differences have been formed by history.
0:02:20 > 0:02:23This thought will be on my mind
0:02:23 > 0:02:26as I travel through the rest of the country.
0:02:27 > 0:02:32Galway is the starting point of this second leg.
0:02:36 > 0:02:39'The seaside suburb of Salthill
0:02:39 > 0:02:45'was as far north as we Wogans ever went when I was a lad.'
0:02:45 > 0:02:48I spent many a holiday here with my family.
0:02:48 > 0:02:53Salthill, an endless promenade, as I remember it.
0:02:53 > 0:02:59Up and down which the Da, the Ma, the brother and myself used to walk.
0:02:59 > 0:03:04I have here a picture of us.
0:03:04 > 0:03:08As you can see, that's myself with the old Dumbo ears -
0:03:08 > 0:03:13it's very brave of me to be standing out in the high wind, because I could take off at any moment.
0:03:13 > 0:03:15And the brother behind, in a pullover
0:03:15 > 0:03:17that could only have been knitted by my granny.
0:03:17 > 0:03:20The Da is smoking a fag at the corner of the mouth,
0:03:20 > 0:03:22but he's wearing a beret.
0:03:22 > 0:03:26That was a sign that my father was on holiday,
0:03:26 > 0:03:30because normally, my father, in his workaday life,
0:03:30 > 0:03:33he would wear what I am wearing, which is called a cap.
0:03:35 > 0:03:39Galway has always been known as a place for young people,
0:03:39 > 0:03:43and to this day, it is full of young people.
0:03:43 > 0:03:46And that's one of the main reasons I resent it.
0:03:49 > 0:03:52A couple of miles down the coast from Salthill
0:03:52 > 0:03:55is the 1,000-year-old city of Galway.
0:03:55 > 0:03:58Always been the most international of Ireland's cities,
0:03:58 > 0:04:04it was visited by Christopher Columbus, and its medieval Spanish Arch recalls a time
0:04:04 > 0:04:09when it was the country's principal port of trade with Spain and France.
0:04:09 > 0:04:14And it's always had a uniquely independent spirit.
0:04:20 > 0:04:25'1,000 years on, Galway is the Republic's fastest-growing city,
0:04:25 > 0:04:27'and its arts festival is Ireland's answer
0:04:27 > 0:04:30'to the Notting Hill Carnival and the Edinburgh Fringe,
0:04:30 > 0:04:34'all wrapped up in one explosive package.'
0:04:38 > 0:04:41'I think Galway is a very rich place.
0:04:41 > 0:04:45'It's a tapestry of culture, song, craic.'
0:04:45 > 0:04:49It's big and it's beautiful and it's bashful and it's buzzing.
0:04:52 > 0:04:55'This big, beautiful, bashful street parade
0:04:55 > 0:04:57'will be watched by 80,000 people
0:04:57 > 0:05:01'as it weaves its way through Galway's maze of medieval streets.
0:05:01 > 0:05:04'It's staged by the theatre company, Macnas.
0:05:04 > 0:05:08'Its artistic director is Noeline Kavanagh.'
0:05:08 > 0:05:12- Over on the wall are various representations, is that a dancing bear?- It is.
0:05:12 > 0:05:15- And also a bull with enormous horns?- Yes.
0:05:15 > 0:05:17So what's all that about?
0:05:17 > 0:05:21Basically, what you see here is a tapestry of inspiration
0:05:21 > 0:05:24that was the foundation for the work this year
0:05:24 > 0:05:28that inspired our artists in the company to make the sculptures.
0:05:31 > 0:05:36'Over the last two decades, Macnas has transformed street theatre in Ireland,
0:05:36 > 0:05:39'making it the inclusive and visceral experience it is here.'
0:05:41 > 0:05:45'Macnas means "joyful abandonment",
0:05:45 > 0:05:48'something my education and upbringing didn't prepare me for.'
0:05:50 > 0:05:52'But like so many other Irish people,
0:05:52 > 0:05:56'I was no stranger to the stage.
0:05:56 > 0:05:59'When I was at Belvedere College in Dublin during the '50s,
0:05:59 > 0:06:01'I was a keen member of the school's drama group.
0:06:01 > 0:06:04'We put on countless Gilbert and Sullivan productions.
0:06:04 > 0:06:09'Here in Galway, I've arranged to meet my old school friend, Eugene Kearney.
0:06:09 > 0:06:14'He and I were the Olivier and Richardson of Belvedere College.'
0:06:14 > 0:06:19Did you feel at any time when we were doing that
0:06:19 > 0:06:22that you had a future on the stage?
0:06:22 > 0:06:25Eh...frankly, no. I did think you had.
0:06:25 > 0:06:27You had the style and you had the, eh...
0:06:27 > 0:06:30- What you're saying is... - ..the je ne sais quoi.
0:06:30 > 0:06:33- ..What you're saying is I upstaged you?- Absolutely.
0:06:33 > 0:06:39This is the evidence of T Wogan as the Grand Inquisitor.
0:06:39 > 0:06:45- Even over-acting in the still photograph.- You're kind of unrecognisable in that.
0:06:45 > 0:06:48- I'm a little heavier since then. - You're very well made up.
0:06:48 > 0:06:52You were very favourably reviewed. "Eugene Kearney" - notice I came first -
0:06:52 > 0:06:56"and Terence Wogan gave us the Two Noble Lords as Gilbert intended them to be,
0:06:56 > 0:06:59"quite out of the ordinary in brainlessness and ineptitude
0:06:59 > 0:07:03"but superbly convinced of their own omni-competence."
0:07:03 > 0:07:06Perhaps we should stop there. But anyway, that's, erm...
0:07:06 > 0:07:09Yes, that's a favourable review.
0:07:09 > 0:07:13So do you think the Irish have a talent,
0:07:13 > 0:07:16have a performance gene in them more than anybody else?
0:07:16 > 0:07:19Or do they just think they have?
0:07:19 > 0:07:21Possibly a higher proportion of people in Ireland
0:07:21 > 0:07:26are given to getting up on the stage, or singing or dancing,
0:07:26 > 0:07:29whatever talent they may have. Yeah, I think so.
0:07:29 > 0:07:34In Galway, they're not afraid to take their talent out onto the streets.
0:07:34 > 0:07:38But I've been tipped off to look out for a re-enactment
0:07:38 > 0:07:43of the execution of King Charles I in London in 1649.
0:07:43 > 0:07:45It was an event the city of Galway
0:07:45 > 0:07:48has a surprisingly strong connection with.
0:07:53 > 0:07:57Please. I am your King!
0:07:57 > 0:08:02It stars Oliver Cromwell, hardly Ireland's favourite Protestant,
0:08:02 > 0:08:04given what he did to the Catholics.
0:08:04 > 0:08:06I, Oliver Cromwell,
0:08:06 > 0:08:11accuse Charles Stuart, King of England, of treason!
0:08:11 > 0:08:14The prisoner is King Charles I,
0:08:14 > 0:08:16complete with flowing locks
0:08:16 > 0:08:20and a bevy of women protesting his innocence.
0:08:20 > 0:08:25This King has shown himself to be an enemy of our Parliament
0:08:25 > 0:08:27and is hereby sentenced to death!
0:08:27 > 0:08:29Axe man, do your duty!
0:08:29 > 0:08:32'But the Royal executioner refuses -
0:08:32 > 0:08:34'the hunt is on for a replacement.'
0:08:34 > 0:08:35GUNSHOT
0:08:35 > 0:08:37'Up steps a new recruit,
0:08:37 > 0:08:40'ready and willing to do the job for a handsome fee.'
0:08:40 > 0:08:43Axe man, off with his head!
0:08:43 > 0:08:45SCREAMING AND SHOUTING
0:08:50 > 0:08:52SCREAMING
0:08:54 > 0:08:58'It turns out, the anonymous executioner was a Galway man,
0:08:58 > 0:09:03'and this very building, now the King's Head pub, was his reward.'
0:09:03 > 0:09:05Jonathan Gunning, I may say,
0:09:05 > 0:09:10you played that role of executioner as if you were born to it.
0:09:10 > 0:09:14Thank you. You know what, the funny thing is - in a way, I was.
0:09:14 > 0:09:18The man that got to do the execution was a man called Richard Gunning,
0:09:18 > 0:09:20and my name is Jonathan Gunning.
0:09:20 > 0:09:23You are a direct descendant of the man who did the regicide?
0:09:23 > 0:09:26Well, we could say that, and I'm very good with a hatchet.
0:09:26 > 0:09:30But in a way, you're responsible as well, Mr Wogan.
0:09:30 > 0:09:32What have we got here?
0:09:32 > 0:09:39We have here a copy of the death warrant from 1649...
0:09:39 > 0:09:41- Of Charles I.- ..of Charles I.
0:09:41 > 0:09:47There were 59 signatories, and right here is the signature of Sir Wogan.
0:09:47 > 0:09:50- A Thomas Wogan? - A Thomas Wogan - very, very good.
0:09:50 > 0:09:53We have his name right here - Thomas Wogan.
0:09:53 > 0:09:56I'm as guilty of regicide as your ancestor?
0:09:56 > 0:09:59But his name was Sir Thomas Wogan, and of course you're a Sir as well,
0:09:59 > 0:10:02- so clearly it works out quite well for you.- Yes, it does.
0:10:02 > 0:10:05So maybe you could keep going, and we could work together.
0:10:05 > 0:10:07- Kill a king, become a knight? - That's it.
0:10:14 > 0:10:16From Galway, city of culture and vitality,
0:10:16 > 0:10:19we travel northwards to the beautiful county of Sligo.
0:10:19 > 0:10:24We're heading for a deserted beach miles from anywhere.
0:10:26 > 0:10:29Ireland was a very prudish place to grow up in,
0:10:29 > 0:10:32and I remember as a child when you went for a dip in the sea,
0:10:32 > 0:10:37Catholic modesty demanded we reveal as little flesh as possible.
0:10:45 > 0:10:49Today, these golden sands are going to be alive with 200 or more ladies
0:10:49 > 0:10:52putting two fingers up to Irish prudery.
0:10:59 > 0:11:01Unfortunately, I can't be there -
0:11:01 > 0:11:05today is the day I do my radio show, Weekend Wogan, back in London.
0:11:05 > 0:11:07But I still hope to be able to make
0:11:07 > 0:11:10my little contribution to The Dip In The Nip.
0:11:10 > 0:11:14CHEERING
0:11:19 > 0:11:21'I'm not sure that this could have happened
0:11:21 > 0:11:24'even five, ten years ago in Ireland.
0:11:24 > 0:11:27'For example, I used to go to Donegal beach
0:11:27 > 0:11:28for holidays when I was a kid,
0:11:28 > 0:11:31and everybody, particularly the adults,
0:11:31 > 0:11:32you kept yourself well wrapped up.
0:11:32 > 0:11:35If you went in for a swim you went to the water,
0:11:35 > 0:11:36got in for a swim, came out again.
0:11:36 > 0:11:38There was no real freedom of it.
0:11:38 > 0:11:40What I found last year,
0:11:40 > 0:11:42when I organised this event for the first time,
0:11:42 > 0:11:45was I actually had to remind people that it was a fundraiser,
0:11:45 > 0:11:49because it became about something else, about a sense of liberation.
0:11:52 > 0:11:55'Public nudity in Ireland is actually still illegal.'
0:11:55 > 0:11:58In many ways, I suppose it is an Irish solution to an Irish problem.
0:11:58 > 0:12:02The Gardai come and make sure everybody's privacy's protected.
0:12:02 > 0:12:06In fact, they should be arresting us, and my father was afraid I was going to get arrested.
0:12:06 > 0:12:10But because we're not setting out to cause offence, that's the key thing.
0:12:10 > 0:12:15We make sure it is kept private, so it's OK. Everybody takes it in the spirit in which it's intended.
0:12:15 > 0:12:20'The man himself, Sir Terry Wogan!'
0:12:20 > 0:12:22CHEERING
0:12:32 > 0:12:36- ON RADIO - 'Oh, stop! Pack it in!'
0:12:36 > 0:12:42This is a very, very special day in County Sligo in the west of Ireland.
0:12:42 > 0:12:45There are a fine body of women, even as we speak,
0:12:45 > 0:12:51and they're there on behalf of a breast cancer charity fundraising event
0:12:51 > 0:12:53and they call it The Dip In The Nip.
0:12:53 > 0:12:57'And it's up to us to launch them.'
0:12:57 > 0:12:59So ladies and gentlemen, here we go.
0:12:59 > 0:13:03Three, two, one! Go!
0:13:32 > 0:13:36It's my mother's 90th birthday, and she has breast cancer.
0:13:36 > 0:13:40She didn't want presents - she wanted people to do things for charity.
0:13:40 > 0:13:42So this is my birthday present for her.
0:13:42 > 0:13:48My mum passed away from cancer three years ago, so I came to support that cause.
0:13:48 > 0:13:50Initially, we said we'd do it for a bit of a craic,
0:13:50 > 0:13:56but unfortunately, our brother died of cancer last month,
0:13:56 > 0:13:58so now we're doing it for him,
0:13:58 > 0:14:02and I'm sure he's looking down now and laughing his head off!
0:14:26 > 0:14:28Onwards, relentlessly onwards.
0:14:28 > 0:14:33Past Sligo town, we encountered the extraordinary peak of Ben Bulben,
0:14:33 > 0:14:36formed by glaciers during the Ice Age.
0:14:38 > 0:14:42Looking down on it, it has the appearance of a slice of ripe Brie,
0:14:42 > 0:14:46its sides falling away to the ground below.
0:14:49 > 0:14:52The north face of Ben Bulben
0:14:52 > 0:14:55is reputed to be one of the most dangerous climbs in Ireland,
0:14:55 > 0:14:57and the flat top of the mountain,
0:14:57 > 0:15:02one of the most isolated and inhospitable places in the country.
0:15:04 > 0:15:07An American aircraft crashed here during World War Two.
0:15:07 > 0:15:08It is said that some of its remains
0:15:08 > 0:15:11can still be found on that windswept plateau.
0:15:16 > 0:15:22'Before we know it, we're in Donegal, courtesy of Dave, my loyal driver.'
0:15:22 > 0:15:28Donegal is the most northerly county in the Republic of Ireland.
0:15:28 > 0:15:32In fact, it's more northerly than any county in Northern Ireland.
0:15:32 > 0:15:34We're hoping to cross the border
0:15:34 > 0:15:37between the Republic and Northern Ireland.
0:15:37 > 0:15:41I have memories of, several years ago, crossing the border,
0:15:41 > 0:15:44and it was no joke then.
0:15:44 > 0:15:47There were watchtowers,
0:15:47 > 0:15:49there were soldiers in the watchtowers, armed,
0:15:49 > 0:15:51there was barbed wire.
0:15:53 > 0:15:58The border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland
0:15:58 > 0:16:00was a dangerous place.
0:16:00 > 0:16:03Now the watchtowers are gone,
0:16:03 > 0:16:06the soldiers and the barbed wire are distant memories.
0:16:06 > 0:16:10You'd be hard-pressed to say exactly where the border is.
0:16:10 > 0:16:13Then all of a sudden, you see ghosts from the past,
0:16:13 > 0:16:16like this disused guardhouse.
0:16:16 > 0:16:20Security has been replaced by commerce
0:16:20 > 0:16:25as countless bureaux de changes compete to exchange euros for pounds
0:16:25 > 0:16:29and road signs change from kilometres to miles.
0:16:29 > 0:16:37We are now crossing the border. You are now in Derry in Northern Ireland.
0:16:37 > 0:16:40So we go from kilometres to miles,
0:16:40 > 0:16:44we've gone from a country that's enthusiastically a member of the EU
0:16:44 > 0:16:48to another country that is perhaps not quite as enthusiastic.
0:16:48 > 0:16:50Correct.
0:16:51 > 0:16:55Just over the border is Northern Ireland's second-biggest city,
0:16:55 > 0:16:57known by two very different names.
0:16:57 > 0:17:00Derry and Londonderry.
0:17:00 > 0:17:03Good morning, Gerald Michael Anderson here, spinster of this parish...
0:17:03 > 0:17:06'I've asked my old friend Gerry Anderson,
0:17:06 > 0:17:09'the voice of BBC Radio Foyle,
0:17:09 > 0:17:13'to explain the significance of these two names to me and you.'
0:17:13 > 0:17:16You'd be stopped at night, and somebody would say,
0:17:16 > 0:17:17"Where are you going?"
0:17:17 > 0:17:21And you'd say..."Derry?",
0:17:21 > 0:17:22wondering if it was right,
0:17:22 > 0:17:25because if you say Derry, it means you're probably a Catholic.
0:17:25 > 0:17:29But if you say Londonderry, you're most definitely a Protestant.
0:17:29 > 0:17:33So he knows instantly what religion you are, which is important during the Troubles.
0:17:37 > 0:17:40It's well over a decade since the peace agreement was signed,
0:17:40 > 0:17:44but the River Foyle still acts as a kind of no-man's-land,
0:17:44 > 0:17:46separating the Catholics on the west side
0:17:46 > 0:17:49from the Protestants on the east,
0:17:49 > 0:17:54with just one bridge connecting the two communities in the city centre.
0:17:59 > 0:18:01The old walled city of Derry
0:18:01 > 0:18:05is a powerful reminder of what this is all about.
0:18:05 > 0:18:09The walls were built by English and Scottish Protestants,
0:18:09 > 0:18:13to keep the native Catholics out.
0:18:13 > 0:18:15'Gerry brings me here to explain how the time bomb
0:18:15 > 0:18:19'of nearly four centuries of anti-Catholic discrimination
0:18:19 > 0:18:21'was finally ignited.'
0:18:21 > 0:18:24It was left to fester, it was never sorted out.
0:18:24 > 0:18:26'It all began in 1947,
0:18:26 > 0:18:30'when Catholics started receiving secondary education
0:18:30 > 0:18:31'for the first time.'
0:18:33 > 0:18:37'This was the very first generation of Catholics to be made aware
0:18:37 > 0:18:41'of how unfairly they'd been treated over the centuries.'
0:18:41 > 0:18:44The guys who had normally not got an education said,
0:18:44 > 0:18:46"Hold on a minute. I'm a second-class citizen."
0:18:46 > 0:18:50By the time people who are 12 years old get to university,
0:18:50 > 0:18:52it'll be 1959, perhaps 1960.
0:18:52 > 0:18:55They will leave university when they are 21.
0:18:55 > 0:18:57They will see around a little bit, they'd think about it.
0:18:57 > 0:19:02They'd be 25 or 26 by the time they realise they have to do something about this place.
0:19:02 > 0:19:06Oh, look, it's 1969! Time to start the Troubles.
0:19:07 > 0:19:10Down below the old city,
0:19:10 > 0:19:12a series of murals tell the story of the Troubles
0:19:12 > 0:19:16and, most famously, of Bloody Sunday.
0:19:18 > 0:19:21On the 30th of January 1972,
0:19:21 > 0:19:25a civil rights march through the city ended in tragedy,
0:19:25 > 0:19:29and 13 demonstrators were shot dead by the British Army.
0:19:33 > 0:19:35A 14th died later.
0:19:35 > 0:19:40They were all Catholics.
0:19:40 > 0:19:43It took 38 years for the truth to be unravelled,
0:19:43 > 0:19:47and in 2010, an investigation led by Lord Saville
0:19:47 > 0:19:53concluded that the deaths were "unjustified and unjustifiable".
0:19:53 > 0:19:58The Saville Report was the first time that anything has happened
0:19:58 > 0:20:00that has been actually really positive.
0:20:00 > 0:20:03Because somebody was coming out and saying,
0:20:03 > 0:20:07"You were right that the people were innocent. We believe you now.
0:20:07 > 0:20:09"We didn't believe you before but you were right."
0:20:09 > 0:20:12It gave the city a tremendous boost of self-confidence.
0:20:12 > 0:20:16Everybody just went, "Thank you - that's all we want."
0:20:20 > 0:20:21The Saville Report's conclusions
0:20:21 > 0:20:24sent a wave of hope and optimism through the city,
0:20:24 > 0:20:29as well as giving a further boost to existing initiatives
0:20:29 > 0:20:35to help pull the next generation of Catholics and Protestants together in this town.
0:20:35 > 0:20:38One of the most successful is he Foyle Cup.
0:20:41 > 0:20:44Now one of Europe's biggest youth football tournaments,
0:20:44 > 0:20:47this match between Derry City Boys and St Kevin's from Dublin
0:20:47 > 0:20:51is taking place in the middle of the Creggan housing estate
0:20:51 > 0:20:53on the outskirts of Derry.
0:20:53 > 0:20:57The Foyle Cup attracts top under-18 players
0:20:57 > 0:21:00from throughout the United Kingdom, Ireland and Europe,
0:21:00 > 0:21:05and it's become a favourite for talent spotters from the big football clubs.
0:21:08 > 0:21:11Not only that, but the tournament's given Derry's next generation
0:21:11 > 0:21:13something else to think about.
0:21:13 > 0:21:16'The Foyle Cup is one of the best competitions in Europe.'
0:21:16 > 0:21:20There's Premiership teams in this. Wolves is playing under-16 and stuff.
0:21:20 > 0:21:24There's American teams. There's actually a CET Spain
0:21:24 > 0:21:26playing in our age group, under-19s.
0:21:26 > 0:21:30A lot of clubs and places in the world know about the competition.
0:21:33 > 0:21:36The worst of the Troubles would've been before us, but it has died down.
0:21:36 > 0:21:40A lot of it has been down to playing football, because they're all mixing -
0:21:40 > 0:21:44Catholics and Protestants - so people tend to forget about it.
0:21:52 > 0:21:54The other great initiative is the Peace Bridge.
0:21:54 > 0:21:58Work has begun on a pedestrian bridge across the River Foyle,
0:21:58 > 0:22:01to link of two halves of the centre of the city -
0:22:01 > 0:22:03east and west, Protestant and Catholic.
0:22:05 > 0:22:08The new structure is a 235-metre footbridge,
0:22:08 > 0:22:12supported by two curved suspension structures.
0:22:12 > 0:22:15It's been described as a handshake across the Foyle.
0:22:15 > 0:22:19It will be the biggest single regeneration project
0:22:19 > 0:22:22in Derry city for over 30 years.
0:22:25 > 0:22:32# BBC Radio 2. #
0:22:32 > 0:22:37Back in the good old days when I was chained to my desk at BBC Broadcasting House,
0:22:37 > 0:22:39doing Wake Up to Wogan on Radio 2 every morning,
0:22:39 > 0:22:42I'd hand over the pastoral care of my audience
0:22:42 > 0:22:48to a controversial Irish Catholic priest called Father Brian D'Arcy.
0:22:48 > 0:22:51You'll remember his wise words, I'm sure...
0:22:51 > 0:22:54'People are unreasonable, illogical and self-centred.
0:22:54 > 0:22:56'Love them anyway.'
0:22:56 > 0:23:00Every week, Father Brian presented a two-minute programme on my show
0:23:00 > 0:23:02called Pause For Thought...
0:23:02 > 0:23:03So, you're very welcome, Terry...
0:23:03 > 0:23:06'..in which he'd disseminate words of wisdom
0:23:06 > 0:23:09'from the monastery here at St Gabriel's Retreat.'
0:23:09 > 0:23:12Mostly, we want it to be a welcoming place.
0:23:12 > 0:23:14'Now he's the rector of the monastery here.
0:23:14 > 0:23:19'Father Brian is regarded as a rebel in the Catholic Church,
0:23:19 > 0:23:22'which is why he doesn't always wear priestly clothes.
0:23:22 > 0:23:26'After all these years, I'm hoping to see the very place
0:23:26 > 0:23:29'from which Father Brian broadcast to the nation.'
0:23:29 > 0:23:31I always assumed you'd have a cell.
0:23:31 > 0:23:34- Here's the cell.- Is this going to disappoint me now?- Well...
0:23:34 > 0:23:36Is there a bed of rushes and things?
0:23:36 > 0:23:40- Well, it's a plank. This is my room. - Your simple bedroom.
0:23:40 > 0:23:42And also... What have you got here?
0:23:42 > 0:23:46This is a lovely red light, which should remind you of something.
0:23:46 > 0:23:49For 20 years on Pause For Thought,
0:23:49 > 0:23:52usually on a Monday morning, I joined you.
0:23:52 > 0:23:55So this little red light was burning outside the door.
0:23:55 > 0:24:00- It's of no religious significance whatsoever?- Only that Terry Wogan broadcast at the other end.
0:24:00 > 0:24:03I sat down here, put on my headphones
0:24:03 > 0:24:07and spoke to the nation, to 8 million people,
0:24:07 > 0:24:10from this little desk and then went back to bed.
0:24:10 > 0:24:13I got up at 5.20 every morning...
0:24:13 > 0:24:15traipsed into London,
0:24:15 > 0:24:17into Broadcasting House.
0:24:17 > 0:24:20- You, in the pyjamas...- Got out of bed, turned round, in the pyjamas,
0:24:20 > 0:24:22and said, "Good morning, Terry."
0:24:22 > 0:24:26ARCHIVE RECORDING: 'There are times when we let the world get the better of us,
0:24:26 > 0:24:31'and there are times we let depression blind us to the good things all around us.'
0:24:31 > 0:24:33'Outside of his radio broadcasts,
0:24:33 > 0:24:35'Father Brian works in a troubled world.
0:24:35 > 0:24:39'In 2009, the Murphy Report confirmed
0:24:39 > 0:24:42'that there had been a number of cases of child abuse
0:24:42 > 0:24:47'by Catholic priests in Dublin from the 1970s.
0:24:47 > 0:24:51'And this has seriously undermined people's confidence in the Catholic Church.
0:24:51 > 0:24:54'Father Brian has been a very public critic
0:24:54 > 0:24:57'of the way the Vatican has handled these revelations.'
0:24:57 > 0:25:01The present Irish Catholic Church is in a complete mess.
0:25:01 > 0:25:05The Murphy Report discovered there were 11 abusive priests in one diocese.
0:25:05 > 0:25:08I was on the Council of Priests in Dublin during that time,
0:25:08 > 0:25:09and it was never mentioned.
0:25:09 > 0:25:12I have to say, it shook be to my roots,
0:25:12 > 0:25:16not just in priesthood but in faith itself,
0:25:16 > 0:25:18that so much could have been hidden.
0:25:18 > 0:25:20And in the middle of all of that,
0:25:20 > 0:25:24you had abusive priests who joined the priesthood
0:25:24 > 0:25:26so that they could abuse children.
0:25:26 > 0:25:27That's the fact of it.
0:25:27 > 0:25:31And what is even more difficult for the people to understand
0:25:31 > 0:25:36is not just the abusive priests, but that these people could be hidden,
0:25:36 > 0:25:39enabled, changed and, in turn, helped to abuse more
0:25:39 > 0:25:42by those in authority who should have known better.
0:25:42 > 0:25:44It has to be said, the Irish people...
0:25:44 > 0:25:47I think their faith has been shattered.
0:25:50 > 0:25:54'To seek refuge from the crisis the Church finds itself in,
0:25:54 > 0:25:59'Father Brian is drawn back to a time before organised religion,
0:25:59 > 0:26:03'a time before Catholic and Protestant Churches.'
0:26:08 > 0:26:14Brian, tell me why you've brought me to this idyllic spot - Lough Erne.
0:26:14 > 0:26:17I used to be with you in the programme, and you'd say,
0:26:17 > 0:26:18"Where are you speaking from?"
0:26:18 > 0:26:23I'd say, "I'm looking out across the idyllic Lough Erne," and you'd never believe me.
0:26:23 > 0:26:25So now you see how idyllic this place is.
0:26:25 > 0:26:29All those word pictures I gave you, they fade into nothing,
0:26:29 > 0:26:31when you actually see the beauty of it.
0:26:31 > 0:26:34I would have to say that in the last 20 years
0:26:34 > 0:26:36it is this scene - what you're looking at now -
0:26:36 > 0:26:38and this man, Pat Lundy, in the boat,
0:26:38 > 0:26:42who has kept me reasonably sane - I can't claim sanity.
0:26:42 > 0:26:46So you'd be madder than you are if it wasn't for this lake?
0:26:46 > 0:26:49Terry, I would be unbearably mad.
0:26:49 > 0:26:52So what you do, you come out here and reflect?
0:26:52 > 0:26:55- Or just sit and think of nothing? - I think both are the same thing.
0:26:55 > 0:26:59This has always been a sacred thing, it's a Celtic thing.
0:26:59 > 0:27:03It is here for thousands of years, long before Christianity
0:27:03 > 0:27:06and the Christians used this in the very beginning.
0:27:06 > 0:27:10Right back to St Molaise of Devenish, the famous Columbanus of Iona,
0:27:10 > 0:27:13all of those came on this lake and reflected on it.
0:27:13 > 0:27:19This was the kind of place that bred the island of saints and scholars.
0:27:19 > 0:27:21Somehow or another, once you get into this,
0:27:21 > 0:27:23there's a kind of spirituality
0:27:23 > 0:27:26that is missing everywhere else in Ireland.
0:27:34 > 0:27:37The tension, the stress of the modern world,
0:27:37 > 0:27:40and particularly the modern Catholic Church, drains out of you,
0:27:40 > 0:27:42and you get filled with a spirituality
0:27:42 > 0:27:47that is far more ancient and beautiful than anything that religion has to offer.
0:27:51 > 0:27:55Father Brian takes his inspiration from the early Christian fathers,
0:27:55 > 0:28:00and with people's faith in the Catholic Church at an all-time low in Ireland
0:28:00 > 0:28:05it needs ambassadors like Father Brian D'Arcy more than ever before.
0:28:17 > 0:28:23I'm headed for Belfast, capital of Northern Ireland.
0:28:27 > 0:28:29Now, when I was in my teens and 20s,
0:28:29 > 0:28:32you have to understand that people who lived in Dublin
0:28:32 > 0:28:35very rarely crossed the border to go to Belfast -
0:28:35 > 0:28:38and vice versa.
0:28:38 > 0:28:40In fact, they're so disconnected
0:28:40 > 0:28:44that they've only just completed the final section of the new motorway
0:28:44 > 0:28:48that links the two cities.
0:28:48 > 0:28:51If I went to Belfast at all, it was to play rugby
0:28:51 > 0:28:54for my school team at Belvedere College in Dublin.
0:28:56 > 0:28:59In those days, the city was probably best known for its shipyards,
0:28:59 > 0:29:02which were owned and run by Harland and Wolff,
0:29:02 > 0:29:05once the biggest shipbuilders in the world.
0:29:05 > 0:29:11They employed over 30,000 people here on Queen's Island,
0:29:11 > 0:29:14almost all of them Protestant.
0:29:16 > 0:29:21Nicknamed Samson and Goliath, these monstrous yellow cranes
0:29:21 > 0:29:25were symbols of Harland and Wolff's global supremacy.
0:29:27 > 0:29:30Back in their heyday, Harland and Wolff were responsible
0:29:30 > 0:29:35for the creation of the most notorious ship of all time.
0:29:35 > 0:29:39The Titanic was the largest passenger ship in the world
0:29:39 > 0:29:46when she set sail on her maiden voyage to New York on 10th April 1912.
0:29:46 > 0:29:50Four days later, she struck an iceberg and sank,
0:29:50 > 0:29:54and more than 1,500 people drowned.
0:29:54 > 0:29:59What is much less well known is that 22 of the victims were local Ulstermen,
0:29:59 > 0:30:04their lives quietly commemorated by the Titanic memorial
0:30:04 > 0:30:07in the grounds of Belfast's City Hall.
0:30:07 > 0:30:11The story of one, Thomas Millar, was typical of the ordinary Irishmen
0:30:11 > 0:30:15who had had the misfortune to be on the ship when it sank.
0:30:15 > 0:30:19Is that a picture of the man himself?
0:30:19 > 0:30:20That's him. He was only 33 when he died,
0:30:20 > 0:30:23so he was still a young man with his whole future ahead of him.
0:30:23 > 0:30:28Susie Millar is the great- granddaughter of Thomas Millar.
0:30:28 > 0:30:32Thomas Millar worked in Harland and Wolff as an engine fitter
0:30:32 > 0:30:35and, for the three years it took to complete Titanic,
0:30:35 > 0:30:38he was watching the ship getting bigger and bigger
0:30:38 > 0:30:40and he started to think about the places it would be going
0:30:40 > 0:30:42and the opportunities it would offer.
0:30:42 > 0:30:47So he really set his mind to improving himself
0:30:47 > 0:30:51and he went and studied to become a sea-going engineer, a marine engineer.
0:30:51 > 0:30:54Just three months before Titanic was due to sail, his wife died.
0:30:54 > 0:30:57He was left with these two young children and he wanted to give them
0:30:57 > 0:30:59the best start in life,
0:30:59 > 0:31:05so he signed up with White Star and off he went on Titanic with the idea of going to America,
0:31:05 > 0:31:10basing himself there, then, once he had himself organised, sending for those two boys.
0:31:10 > 0:31:15Those two boys were Susie's grandfather and great uncle.
0:31:15 > 0:31:17Not only had they lost their mother,
0:31:17 > 0:31:20but with their father on the Titanic,
0:31:20 > 0:31:23they were about to lose him too.
0:31:23 > 0:31:26As a deck engineer, part of his responsibility
0:31:26 > 0:31:30was for the mechanisms which controlled the lifeboats,
0:31:30 > 0:31:33so he, in all likelihood, was helping to get people away,
0:31:33 > 0:31:36working those lifeboats and getting them lowered down,
0:31:36 > 0:31:39so at least he was doing something to help others.
0:31:39 > 0:31:42Probably no room for him on the boats?
0:31:42 > 0:31:45No, crew would have been expected to do their duty until the end.
0:31:45 > 0:31:50This poor man who thought he was doing good for his children...
0:31:50 > 0:31:52in the end, he left them orphaned.
0:31:52 > 0:31:55He left them something else as well.
0:31:55 > 0:31:58He did. Where we are standing would have been the last place
0:31:58 > 0:32:01that my grandfather saw his father before he sailed off on Titanic.
0:32:01 > 0:32:04Before he left, my great grandfather took
0:32:04 > 0:32:08my five-year-old grandfather to one side and gave him two new pennies.
0:32:08 > 0:32:10He said, "Don't spend those until I see you again."
0:32:10 > 0:32:14And of course, because he never did see his son again,
0:32:14 > 0:32:17my grandfather kept those all his life.
0:32:17 > 0:32:20- 1912.- Yes, that's George V.
0:32:27 > 0:32:34The sinking of the Titanic was one of the darkest days in the history of Belfast shipyards,
0:32:34 > 0:32:38and yet that ill-fated ship has given its name to a massive project,
0:32:38 > 0:32:41to regenerate this entire Docklands area.
0:32:45 > 0:32:50Belfast shipyards is now known as the Titanic Quarter.
0:32:50 > 0:32:52The irony of it.
0:32:54 > 0:32:55Like London's Docklands,
0:32:55 > 0:33:01it's going to include a brand-new financial and business district,
0:33:01 > 0:33:08and a major new museum devoted to the memory of one of the 20th century's greatest tragedies.
0:33:12 > 0:33:16This marvellous building, once the world headquarters of Harland and Wolff,
0:33:16 > 0:33:21is destined to become the Titanic-themed hotel.
0:33:21 > 0:33:22But before the developers move in,
0:33:22 > 0:33:25I want to have a look at the old place.
0:33:29 > 0:33:34Once inside, there are echoes of more gracious, elegant times.
0:33:34 > 0:33:39The whole building feels like a glamorous transatlantic liner
0:33:39 > 0:33:44with grand stairways and aristocratic sanitary ware.
0:33:46 > 0:33:50But without doubt, the piece de resistance is this...
0:33:50 > 0:33:52the drawing offices.
0:33:52 > 0:33:55There are two of them. It was here that a sizable proportion
0:33:55 > 0:34:00of the 20th century's greatest ships were designed and drawn.
0:34:02 > 0:34:06When I can walk into these drawing offices and I can see people,
0:34:06 > 0:34:10I can put names to people, where they sat, where they were based.
0:34:10 > 0:34:14It is tinged with sadness to see the building in its state now.
0:34:14 > 0:34:19'I'm joined by retired workers John Higgins and Rodney McCullough.'
0:34:19 > 0:34:23You were here in the '50s and '60s, that's when you worked here,
0:34:23 > 0:34:25so it must have been a tremendous hive of industry.
0:34:25 > 0:34:31It was. In the '50s and '60s, and at the tail-end of the '40s,
0:34:31 > 0:34:36- there were 51,000 people employed by the Harland and Wolff group.- No?
0:34:36 > 0:34:39And here in Belfast, we had 31,000.
0:34:39 > 0:34:42So there was a massive empire
0:34:42 > 0:34:47with branches in Liverpool, Southampton, London, three shipyards on the Clyde,
0:34:47 > 0:34:49three engineering works on the Clyde,
0:34:49 > 0:34:53so it was all controlled from this space here in Belfast.
0:34:53 > 0:34:56What kind of people were they to work for?
0:34:56 > 0:34:58Very disciplined, very disciplined workforce,
0:34:58 > 0:35:02everything was very disciplined, even down to going to the toilet.
0:35:02 > 0:35:05Back in those days you didn't clock in,
0:35:05 > 0:35:08there were none of the fancy systems there are today.
0:35:08 > 0:35:11You had a little block of wood called a board
0:35:11 > 0:35:13with a number stamped across the top.
0:35:13 > 0:35:16You called that in the morning from the timekeeper
0:35:16 > 0:35:18and you threw it in to the timekeeper at night,
0:35:18 > 0:35:23and that was the time recording system, so this board became a critical piece of infrastructure.
0:35:23 > 0:35:28And when you went to the toilet, you used this board.
0:35:28 > 0:35:32There was a man in the toilet, and when you went in, you gave him your board,
0:35:32 > 0:35:33he looked at your number,
0:35:33 > 0:35:38he recorded your time in and in seven minutes,
0:35:38 > 0:35:42he came and he rattled the door to tell you it was time to get out.
0:35:42 > 0:35:48So consequently, as a result of that, toilets were not known as toilets in Harland and Wolff,
0:35:48 > 0:35:50they were widely known as "minutes",
0:35:50 > 0:35:53because you only got seven minutes to do what ever you had to do.
0:35:53 > 0:35:56TOILET FLUSHES
0:35:57 > 0:36:00Absolutely right too. We've all become too soft.
0:36:00 > 0:36:03Seven minutes should be plenty of time!
0:36:06 > 0:36:10Sadly, though, time ran out for the shipyards.
0:36:14 > 0:36:17Less than 50 miles south of Belfast,
0:36:17 > 0:36:21Armagh is one of Northern Ireland's five border counties.
0:36:26 > 0:36:30It's one of the most fertile and beautiful parts of the country.
0:36:30 > 0:36:33But its beauty belies its recent history.
0:36:33 > 0:36:35During the three decades of the Troubles,
0:36:35 > 0:36:39around 250 people were killed in South Armagh,
0:36:39 > 0:36:43many of them British soldiers and police officers.
0:36:46 > 0:36:50At that time, South Armagh was known as bandit country.
0:36:50 > 0:36:52Not any more.
0:36:53 > 0:36:56DRUMS PLAY
0:36:58 > 0:37:02ACCORDIONS PLAY
0:37:07 > 0:37:09St Brigid's Accordion Band
0:37:09 > 0:37:11has members not only from both sides of the border,
0:37:11 > 0:37:14but from both Catholic and Protestant backgrounds.
0:37:14 > 0:37:16'Given the size of the place,
0:37:16 > 0:37:19'most of the village seems to be in the band!'
0:37:27 > 0:37:31How is it that, in an area that really only has about 200 people in it,
0:37:31 > 0:37:35you have 80 accordionists, not all here today...
0:37:35 > 0:37:39playing the drums, playing all sorts of instruments?
0:37:39 > 0:37:43How did you manage to generate that kind of enthusiasm?
0:37:43 > 0:37:45A lot of hard work.
0:37:45 > 0:37:47It all started back in 1991, Terry,
0:37:47 > 0:37:51where there was not really anything going on in this locality,
0:37:51 > 0:37:54and there was a lady from across the border who joined here
0:37:54 > 0:37:58with four people, including my brother and sister and her own two daughters.
0:37:58 > 0:38:00They decided that they would start music lessons.
0:38:02 > 0:38:05THEY PLAY DRUMS AND ACCORDIONS
0:38:08 > 0:38:10Why did you pick accordions?
0:38:10 > 0:38:15I think it's a great instrument, it's easy to listen to,
0:38:15 > 0:38:19it's not easy to play, but it's affordable.
0:38:19 > 0:38:23And you've got all these people playing accordions and drums.
0:38:23 > 0:38:26And of course, you become internationally famous -
0:38:26 > 0:38:29you win competitions all over Europe, don't you?
0:38:29 > 0:38:31Yes, we've won the All Ireland three years in a row,
0:38:31 > 0:38:33we've won five All Irelands altogether,
0:38:33 > 0:38:36and we are currently the Ulster champions for a junior band.
0:38:36 > 0:38:38So we have a senior band and a junior band.
0:38:38 > 0:38:43It's an extraordinary tribute to the fact that in this tiny area, and in an area
0:38:43 > 0:38:50- that has certainly been embattled - you have had your share of violence here...- We have indeed.
0:38:50 > 0:38:53This border land area would be a focal point throughout history.
0:38:53 > 0:38:55Economically and politically,
0:38:55 > 0:38:57the border would be viewed as legitimate,
0:38:57 > 0:39:00but culturally, the only differences
0:39:00 > 0:39:02between here and the south
0:39:02 > 0:39:06is the postboxes are green down there and red up here.
0:39:06 > 0:39:08There's no line in a map with music.
0:39:12 > 0:39:16I think I could grow to love the accordion.
0:39:16 > 0:39:19And in Jonesborough, you'd better!
0:39:23 > 0:39:28Within minutes, we're across the border back into the Republic.
0:39:28 > 0:39:32I know the Irish like to think they're the only people that ever had a history,
0:39:32 > 0:39:35but they do have a lot of it.
0:39:35 > 0:39:38And the Boyne Valley is where it's at its richest.
0:39:47 > 0:39:53Bru na Boinne is one of the most spectacular megalithic sites in Europe.
0:39:53 > 0:39:59It's a chamber of tombs that's older than the pyramids of Egypt.
0:40:01 > 0:40:06And these strange earthworks on the Hill of Tara mark the seat of Loegaire,
0:40:06 > 0:40:11High King of Ireland and legendary adversary of St Patrick.
0:40:15 > 0:40:18Nearby is a statue of St Patrick himself.
0:40:18 > 0:40:19Keep an eye on that shamrock.
0:40:19 > 0:40:24At some point in the 1st century AD, St Patrick won an argument
0:40:24 > 0:40:31with the druids, and the old king gave him free rein to bring Christianity to this pagan isle.
0:40:34 > 0:40:39The event that the Boyne Valley is best known for is the Battle of the Boyne -
0:40:39 > 0:40:45the only significant battle, in European terms, ever fought in Ireland.
0:40:45 > 0:40:50Back in 1690, the Protestants and the Catholics fought
0:40:50 > 0:40:54to the death for Irish rule.
0:40:54 > 0:41:0030,000 Catholics, led by King James II and his Jacobites, marched up from the south.
0:41:00 > 0:41:0340,000 Protestant troops, led by King William -
0:41:03 > 0:41:07King Billy, as he's become known - headed down from the north.
0:41:07 > 0:41:11The armies met here on opposing sides of the River Boyne.
0:41:11 > 0:41:14The Catholics never stood a chance.
0:41:14 > 0:41:17Historian Turtle Bunbury explains why.
0:41:17 > 0:41:21Several reasons why one army won... which ended up being King Billy.
0:41:21 > 0:41:24One of them is that they were outnumbered - that's pretty obvious.
0:41:24 > 0:41:28Secondly, King Billy's men were veterans of all the wars in Europe,
0:41:28 > 0:41:31whereas King James's Jacobites were...
0:41:31 > 0:41:3417,000 of them were farmers from round and about
0:41:34 > 0:41:36who hadn't really fought before.
0:41:36 > 0:41:39And, thirdly, lately, it's been discovered that the brandy rations
0:41:39 > 0:41:43arrived on the morning of the battle itself for the Jacobite forces,
0:41:43 > 0:41:46and a lot of them got stuck into it that day.
0:41:46 > 0:41:49Are you sure this is not a part of Irish mythology?
0:41:49 > 0:41:55I'm quite sure. A diary has been recently located and out of that...
0:41:55 > 0:41:57The Jacobites were then driven down to Limerick.
0:41:57 > 0:42:00Finally defeated at Limerick. That was the end of the Jacobites.
0:42:00 > 0:42:06The Battle of the Boyne saw the end of Catholic rule in Ireland.
0:42:06 > 0:42:08It was the last hoorah, definitely.
0:42:10 > 0:42:13The drink gets blamed for nearly everything in Ireland.
0:42:13 > 0:42:18What is clear is that Catholics were outnumbered and finally outdone.
0:42:30 > 0:42:36After driving nearly 2,000 kilometres around the old Emerald Isle, I'm back in Dublin.
0:42:39 > 0:42:41'When I was 15, one hour ahead of the posse,'
0:42:41 > 0:42:46we Wogans moved here from Limerick, where I'd spent my childhood.
0:42:46 > 0:42:5312 years later, I made Helen Joyce the happiest woman in the planet by marrying her.
0:42:54 > 0:43:00At that time, I was speaking to the great Irish public - as a continuity announcer, no less.
0:43:04 > 0:43:08Like most city dwellers, Dubliners are a breed apart.
0:43:08 > 0:43:11They're known by country people as Jackeens,
0:43:11 > 0:43:15and Dublin's always been seen as the most English city in Ireland.
0:43:15 > 0:43:19And so, the Jack in Jackeen refers to the Union Jack.
0:43:19 > 0:43:23The diminutive "een" makes them little Jacks.
0:43:23 > 0:43:25That's country people for you.
0:43:25 > 0:43:27And, by the way, they're called culchies,
0:43:27 > 0:43:29but I'm not going to get into that.
0:43:34 > 0:43:38I left Dublin in a marked manner for London in 1969.
0:43:38 > 0:43:44'But this is the city that made me, so I suppose I could call myself a Jackeen.
0:43:46 > 0:43:51'Is there any real difference though between the English and the Irish now?
0:43:51 > 0:43:54'David Norris is a senator, here in the Irish Parliament.
0:43:54 > 0:43:58'His father was English, his mother was Irish.'
0:43:58 > 0:44:03I'm just trying to identify the differences, the similarities,
0:44:03 > 0:44:06between the Irish and the British.
0:44:06 > 0:44:08I think we're actually very similar in a lot of ways.
0:44:08 > 0:44:11A slightly different sense of humour, I think.
0:44:11 > 0:44:15But we are remarkably similar genetically. We're all mixed up.
0:44:15 > 0:44:18If you look at Her Majesty, The Queen, a woman I greatly admire,
0:44:18 > 0:44:22she is a direct descendant of both Brian Boru and Hugh O'Neill
0:44:22 > 0:44:26through her mother, who was so gloriously Irish.
0:44:26 > 0:44:31You know...fag in her mouth, gin in her handbag.
0:44:31 > 0:44:35Punting on the nags, fairies in the kitchen.
0:44:35 > 0:44:41Absolutely wonderful! And a woman, of whom Adolf Hitler said, "The most dangerous woman in Europe."
0:44:41 > 0:44:46What an accolade, what a gal! I thought that was wonderful.
0:44:48 > 0:44:53Not surprisingly then, there aren't many differences between the Irish and the English any longer.
0:44:53 > 0:44:56Most of us are a mixture of the two.
0:44:56 > 0:45:01Of course, like me, a lot of Irish don't live in Ireland any longer.
0:45:01 > 0:45:05There are more of us in England than there are in Ireland.
0:45:05 > 0:45:11I'm all in favour of bringing people together as much as possible, rather than fomenting division.
0:45:11 > 0:45:13Celebrate difference, that's wonderful.
0:45:13 > 0:45:20And I'm glad there are still people doing Morris dancing and rolling cheeses down the hillside.
0:45:20 > 0:45:24Those are terribly English things. Irish people wouldn't do them. We have our own idiocies.
0:45:25 > 0:45:28We may not roll cheeses or Morris dance,
0:45:28 > 0:45:32but here in Ireland, we're taught to dance as though our lives depended on it.
0:45:32 > 0:45:36Riverdance is now a world-famous stage show,
0:45:36 > 0:45:41but I'm proud to say I was there at the very beginning,
0:45:41 > 0:45:45before Michael Flatley and Jean Butler became household names.
0:45:47 > 0:45:50APPLAUSE AND CHEERING
0:45:50 > 0:45:53Good grief! That brought the folk memories out.
0:45:53 > 0:45:58Small hairs rising at the back of every Irishman's neck.
0:45:59 > 0:46:03By anybody's standards, it was dramatic, it was dynamic.
0:46:05 > 0:46:09It probably changed Irish dancing forever.
0:46:09 > 0:46:14For 15 years, Riverdance has been a global, blockbusting stage show
0:46:14 > 0:46:19and now it's back in Dublin rehearsing for another sell-out season at the Gaiety Theatre.
0:46:23 > 0:46:26I've come to meet my old friend, Moya Doherty,
0:46:26 > 0:46:29one of the original creators of Riverdance.
0:46:34 > 0:46:37I can only tell you what an impact it had
0:46:37 > 0:46:39on a simple old presenter like myself,
0:46:39 > 0:46:43in terms of television, in terms of drama.
0:46:43 > 0:46:46There was nothing to touch it. And it was you that started it.
0:46:46 > 0:46:48Where did you get the idea?
0:46:48 > 0:46:50HOW did you get the idea?
0:46:50 > 0:46:53I needed to do something as a producer that wasn't song-based.
0:46:53 > 0:46:56I wanted to present dance.
0:46:56 > 0:47:00We don't have a history of ballet, we don't have a history of contemporary dance.
0:47:00 > 0:47:07So, really, just to reach back into our very rich culture was the best place to go.
0:47:07 > 0:47:11And I think marrying that with these two extraordinary Irish-American dancers,
0:47:11 > 0:47:12Michael Flatley and Jean Butler,
0:47:12 > 0:47:14brought an athleticism to Irish dance,
0:47:14 > 0:47:18because they were first- and second- generation Irish-Americans.
0:47:18 > 0:47:22And it was interesting what happened, the journey of traditional Irish dance,
0:47:22 > 0:47:26- which was hands by the side and... - So you wouldn't show the knickers.- Yeah.
0:47:26 > 0:47:30Just... The Catholic Church had a very close hold on it all.
0:47:30 > 0:47:34But obviously, those Irish-Americans were much freer
0:47:34 > 0:47:37and they introduced the fusion of different cultures.
0:47:37 > 0:47:43A little bit of flamenco, a little bit of Broadway, and that driving, building music.
0:47:45 > 0:47:51Well, with the new show just about to open, rehearsals are at fever pitch.
0:47:51 > 0:47:54Irish dancing has been transformed by Riverdance,
0:47:54 > 0:47:56and nowadays, every parent in the country
0:47:56 > 0:47:59is desperate to see their progeny clicking their heels
0:47:59 > 0:48:02and stomping about like mad things on the stage.
0:48:02 > 0:48:08'Moya and I look in on the next generation of Riverdancers in the making.'
0:48:08 > 0:48:11We're going to do St Patrick's Day with all the dancers,
0:48:11 > 0:48:17which is a very traditional dance, and it's known worldwide.
0:48:17 > 0:48:21Each dancer will have learned this dance on their ranks all the way up.
0:48:32 > 0:48:35'Susan Ginnety was one of the dancers
0:48:35 > 0:48:39'on that very first performance of the fledgling Riverdance
0:48:39 > 0:48:41'during the Eurovision Song Contest.'
0:48:41 > 0:48:45- There you were on that wonderful night.- Yeah. A long, long, time ago.
0:48:45 > 0:48:50What did you feel? Did you think that something rather extraordinary had happened?
0:48:50 > 0:48:54Absolutely! When we danced it first, we had our rehearsals
0:48:54 > 0:48:56and we always knew it was fantastic.
0:48:56 > 0:48:58Great camaraderie between everybody.
0:48:58 > 0:49:04Then when we finished the dance that night, there was that, "Ah!" and then the applause.
0:49:04 > 0:49:07- An extraordinary intake of breath. - Absolutely. It was brilliant for us.
0:49:07 > 0:49:09We were very young at the time.
0:49:09 > 0:49:13I was 16 at the time, so I was only a baby myself.
0:49:13 > 0:49:15It was brilliant - a great experience.
0:49:15 > 0:49:21In many ways, Riverdance was the touch-paper that lit the beginning of a new Ireland,
0:49:21 > 0:49:24proud of its heritage, confident about its future.
0:49:26 > 0:49:29From the mid-1990s, Dublin became the epicentre
0:49:29 > 0:49:35of a massive economic boom, dubbed the Celtic Tiger.
0:49:35 > 0:49:39Lured by attractive tax incentives and compliant banks,
0:49:39 > 0:49:43the speculators and developers descended on the capital,
0:49:43 > 0:49:46built glass and steel palaces up and down the Liffey.
0:49:46 > 0:49:51But with the crash of 2007, the smart money moved out,
0:49:51 > 0:49:53the boom was over.
0:49:53 > 0:49:56But for a while there at the beginning of the new millennium,
0:49:56 > 0:50:01Dublin felt like the most affluent city in Europe.
0:50:01 > 0:50:05'40 years earlier, I took my first staggering steps
0:50:05 > 0:50:10'in broadcasting here in Dublin, alongside RTE's Gay Byrne.
0:50:10 > 0:50:13'He has become the most famous man on Irish television and radio,
0:50:13 > 0:50:17'but that's after I'd left the country, you know.'
0:50:17 > 0:50:22For more than 37 years, he hosted The Late Late Show, the world's longest-running chat show.
0:50:22 > 0:50:26It's been the biggest catalyst for social change this country has seen.
0:50:26 > 0:50:33Landmark editions featuring lesbian nuns, women's rights and an AIDS special
0:50:33 > 0:50:34showing how to put on a condom
0:50:34 > 0:50:39have all helped to bring Ireland and the Irish into the 21st century.
0:50:39 > 0:50:45Would you say that Ireland's changes have been considerable?
0:50:45 > 0:50:50When you think that people walked out of the studio of The Late Late Show
0:50:50 > 0:50:57because we were discussing the possibility of divorce being legalised in Ireland...
0:50:57 > 0:51:00we were only discussing the possibility,
0:51:00 > 0:51:02and people walked out in disgust and outrage.
0:51:02 > 0:51:10We were speaking about contraception, we were speaking about gayness, and that was just...
0:51:10 > 0:51:11the reaction to that,
0:51:11 > 0:51:16even discussing it on the Late Late Show was so appalling, in the view of so many.
0:51:16 > 0:51:24- When was that, the '60s, the '70s? - Well into the '70s and even into the '80s, and now,
0:51:24 > 0:51:31when you see gay partnerships being hunky-dory and contraception, of course,
0:51:31 > 0:51:34no longer a point of discussion, neither is divorce,
0:51:34 > 0:51:36and the ceiling didn't fall in and the sky...
0:51:36 > 0:51:38whatever, nothing happened.
0:51:38 > 0:51:46But people were roused to apoplexy about even the discussion.
0:51:46 > 0:51:51To keep Gay going in his declining years, Auntie have given him a new series where he pins
0:51:51 > 0:51:54well-known Irish people to their seat
0:51:54 > 0:51:59with personal and penetrating questions until they cry for mercy.
0:51:59 > 0:52:02It's called, modestly, The Meaning Of Life.
0:52:04 > 0:52:05'What's it all about?
0:52:05 > 0:52:07'Why are we here?
0:52:07 > 0:52:09'Is there a God?'
0:52:09 > 0:52:16Gay has talk to people like Edna O'Brien, Brenda Fricker and Gabriel Byrne and now it's my turn.
0:52:16 > 0:52:21'I have foolishly agreed to succumb to his iron will. I'm beginning to regret it already.'
0:52:23 > 0:52:27It's very important that I look my best for this.
0:52:27 > 0:52:30'Gay is known for going for the jugular.'
0:52:30 > 0:52:34I don't know why you're actually wasting tape doing this.
0:52:34 > 0:52:36- We've got enough make-up on.- We do.
0:52:36 > 0:52:39Are we about to call the master?
0:52:39 > 0:52:41Would that noise not be too much, no?
0:52:43 > 0:52:46Ah, what a man, because when you're talking,
0:52:46 > 0:52:51for some reason, particularly when it's not going well, you do get a bit dry.
0:52:51 > 0:52:52OK, let's go, thank you.
0:52:52 > 0:52:55And I don't anticipate this going very well.
0:52:55 > 0:52:58Action.
0:52:58 > 0:53:03Good evening to you and welcome again, and our guest this time is Sir Terence Wogan.
0:53:03 > 0:53:07Good day to you, sir, and thank you very much indeed for joining us.
0:53:07 > 0:53:12- The pleasure is mine.- This programme is called The Meaning Of Life.
0:53:12 > 0:53:14A fairly pretentious title.
0:53:14 > 0:53:16Indeed, it is.
0:53:16 > 0:53:21Perhaps a little overreaching in its ambition. Nonetheless,
0:53:21 > 0:53:26what do you think life has as a meaning? What do you think the meaning of life is?
0:53:26 > 0:53:30My life, if you're asking me about MY life and the meaning of MY life...
0:53:32 > 0:53:35..it's been absolutely wonderful.
0:53:35 > 0:53:38I've had the most wonderful time,
0:53:38 > 0:53:42I've had a lovely family, I've had a loving wife.
0:53:42 > 0:53:46I've had...success in the material world.
0:53:46 > 0:53:49I've done something I wanted to do.
0:53:49 > 0:53:51I've had an ideal life.
0:53:51 > 0:53:57So, I can only tell you what it means to me, which is happiness.
0:53:57 > 0:54:01You're overreaching feeling, then, would be one of gratitude?
0:54:01 > 0:54:03Absolutely.
0:54:03 > 0:54:06But not to anybody or anything in particular?
0:54:06 > 0:54:08You could say fate.
0:54:08 > 0:54:10Luck.
0:54:11 > 0:54:14Yes, but I can't believe that...
0:54:14 > 0:54:22somebody out there, beyond the clouds, particularly picked me out to have a good time.
0:54:22 > 0:54:26In the end, did you decide that you do not believe in God or otherwise?
0:54:26 > 0:54:33Yeah, I don't believe in God. I don't believe in heaven and I don't believe in hell.
0:54:33 > 0:54:38I know it's arrogant, as I said before, better men than me have believed in God,
0:54:38 > 0:54:43far more intelligent people than me, but at this stage of my life, let me put it that way,
0:54:43 > 0:54:49that I don't... I can't accept the logic.
0:54:49 > 0:54:51OK, last question.
0:54:51 > 0:54:54Suppose it's all true,
0:54:54 > 0:54:57what the Js told you at the Crescent and Belevedere,
0:54:57 > 0:55:03suppose it's all absolutely true, and they were right, and you get up there to wherever,
0:55:03 > 0:55:07when you made that great Director-General in the sky,
0:55:07 > 0:55:08what will you say to him?
0:55:11 > 0:55:13I'll look around a bit and I think I'll say...
0:55:15 > 0:55:18.."Where am I?"
0:55:18 > 0:55:20And then,
0:55:20 > 0:55:22"You're having me on!
0:55:23 > 0:55:26"I don't believe this!"
0:55:27 > 0:55:29But I'll take it if it's there.
0:55:32 > 0:55:35Won't we all, dear, won't we all!
0:55:41 > 0:55:45It's up for discussion - there may be no heaven, there may be no hell -
0:55:45 > 0:55:47but somewhere in between the two here in Dublin,
0:55:47 > 0:55:51there is a kind of immortality, if you're famous enough...
0:55:51 > 0:55:53the city is full of statues.
0:55:53 > 0:55:58They celebrate most of Ireland's good and great, but most of them
0:55:58 > 0:56:04have been given rhyming nicknames of such rudeness I couldn't possibly disclose them here.
0:56:08 > 0:56:10So, Oscar Wilde is the...
0:56:10 > 0:56:13"person" on the crag.
0:56:15 > 0:56:19James Joyce is the... "person" with the stick.
0:56:21 > 0:56:26And Molly Malone is the "person" with the cart.
0:56:27 > 0:56:30The Irish put you on a pedestal only to knock you off.
0:56:31 > 0:56:36'But they can bide their time before they erect one of me, thank you very much.
0:56:36 > 0:56:41'Besides, I can't think of anything too rude rhyming with microphone. Can you?'
0:56:43 > 0:56:48'The people of Ireland have always been its most important resource.
0:56:48 > 0:56:50'They've also been the country's main export.
0:56:53 > 0:56:58'The thing about the Irish is that, whether they are in Chicago or Riga or London,
0:56:58 > 0:57:01'they remain Irish to the core.
0:57:01 > 0:57:05'And the ones that have stayed in the old country
0:57:05 > 0:57:08'have helped redefine and strengthen the culture.
0:57:08 > 0:57:14'Ireland and Irishness are probably one of the world's best-known national identities.'
0:57:14 > 0:57:18Because of centuries of emigration, there are about 80 million people
0:57:18 > 0:57:22around the world who can claim an Irish birthright.
0:57:22 > 0:57:26That makes us one of the most widely dispersed nations throughout the globe.
0:57:26 > 0:57:33Which reminds me, the other thing about the Irish is that every so often, they do like to come home.
0:57:37 > 0:57:40This is Phoenix Park, Dublin -
0:57:40 > 0:57:45probably the biggest walled park in Europe.
0:57:45 > 0:57:52Five square miles of grass and trees, and in the middle of it, Aras an Uachtarain,
0:57:52 > 0:57:57which is Gaelic for the Presidential Palace where the President of Ireland sits.
0:57:57 > 0:58:01In that top left-hand window, you'll see a light.
0:58:01 > 0:58:04That's a permanent light.
0:58:04 > 0:58:07That's a light to welcome back
0:58:07 > 0:58:11the millions of Irish who have left this country.
0:58:13 > 0:58:15As I have done myself
0:58:15 > 0:58:17and as I have to do again.
0:58:19 > 0:58:21OK, Dave, take us away.
0:58:42 > 0:58:46Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd
0:58:46 > 0:58:51E-mail subtitling@bbc.co.uk