0:00:18 > 0:00:22I think there is some use of corporal punishment. Are you in favour of this?
0:00:22 > 0:00:26Yes, now and again, I think it does wonders!
0:00:26 > 0:00:28Corporal punishment,
0:00:28 > 0:00:33the infliction of pain to punish, was once part of everyday life.
0:00:33 > 0:00:38Can we have a show of hands? How many of you have never, ever hit your children?
0:00:41 > 0:00:42Thank you.
0:00:42 > 0:00:45Well, strangely enough, belting works.
0:00:45 > 0:00:47It makes a good child better!
0:00:47 > 0:00:51This is not only the story of punishment in schools.
0:00:51 > 0:00:55Corporal punishment has been part of religious life and of the law.
0:00:55 > 0:01:01Well, on the eighteenth one I don't think I could have stood any more.
0:01:02 > 0:01:06It has been used in the nursery and in the bedroom.
0:01:06 > 0:01:10All we are saying here is that there is a sadomasochistic element
0:01:10 > 0:01:11running throughout society.
0:01:11 > 0:01:16Corporal punishment has been used and advocated by reasonable people
0:01:16 > 0:01:19who have argued forcefully for its merits.
0:01:19 > 0:01:23This is over in a few seconds and it's a salutary lesson,
0:01:23 > 0:01:25it's a short, sharp lesson.
0:01:26 > 0:01:29It connects with strong human instincts.
0:01:29 > 0:01:31We hear of an elderly lady
0:01:31 > 0:01:36taking her pension from the local Post Office, knocked to the ground,
0:01:36 > 0:01:40and kicked about the head, I think we all have a visceral reaction -
0:01:40 > 0:01:42why doesn't somebody punch this person?
0:01:42 > 0:01:45I think that that is almost a human instinct.
0:01:45 > 0:01:49Well, why can't we have a deterrent to protect ourselves?
0:01:49 > 0:01:52Corporal punishment has deep roots in British culture
0:01:52 > 0:01:56and its slow decline reflects a battle that has raged
0:01:56 > 0:01:58for over 200 years.
0:01:58 > 0:02:00Those debates about what is legitimate,
0:02:00 > 0:02:02how much force can you put in to it,
0:02:02 > 0:02:05who's entitled to inflict it, who are the victims,
0:02:05 > 0:02:08have actually been going on for a very, very, long time.
0:02:16 > 0:02:19Corporal punishment is often associated with the schoolmaster
0:02:19 > 0:02:24and the cane, but it once had a role throughout society.
0:02:24 > 0:02:29If we went back to the 18th century,
0:02:29 > 0:02:34we'd be pretty horrified by attitudes to other people's pain.
0:02:36 > 0:02:42The 18th century public could both witness and join in with the infliction of pain,
0:02:42 > 0:02:46such as the pillory, the most unpredictable of punishments.
0:02:47 > 0:02:52In London, the pillory, or one of the pillories was, at Charing Cross,
0:02:52 > 0:02:55where the statue of Charles I is now
0:02:55 > 0:02:58and it was the site of great excitement.
0:03:01 > 0:03:05And there was this poor man or woman in the pillory,
0:03:05 > 0:03:08abused by crowds of common people.
0:03:08 > 0:03:10This was the common peoples' sport
0:03:10 > 0:03:15because they were expected to come along with dead cats and oranges
0:03:15 > 0:03:21and eggs and such rotten fruit from Covent Garden as they could collect from the gutters
0:03:21 > 0:03:24and pelt this, the poor victim and the polite people
0:03:24 > 0:03:27would be in their coaches and they kind of watch
0:03:27 > 0:03:31this sensation and congratulate themselves on their refinement
0:03:31 > 0:03:32that they didn't indulge in this.
0:03:32 > 0:03:36But there was never a sense of pity
0:03:36 > 0:03:39for the poor wretch being stoned.
0:03:41 > 0:03:47Even women were not spared the indignity of public punishment.
0:03:47 > 0:03:52For petty thefts, petty larcenies, a woman was tied to the cart
0:03:52 > 0:03:56and she had to follow it like this, bare-breasted and bare-backed,
0:03:56 > 0:04:01through the market square being humiliatingly beaten.
0:04:05 > 0:04:10One way of explaining all these violent attacks in past times
0:04:10 > 0:04:14is through realising that the state in early modern times
0:04:14 > 0:04:20in the 16th, 17th, even 18th centuries was relatively weak.
0:04:20 > 0:04:22We have to remember that it was defended by
0:04:22 > 0:04:27a few thousand soldiers and by a few thousand parish constables
0:04:27 > 0:04:31and the wonder is that it all held together.
0:04:31 > 0:04:35And one reason that it held together was because of the violence that
0:04:35 > 0:04:38could be deployed by this minimalist state.
0:04:38 > 0:04:43The humiliation and the pain were a necessary part of punishment,
0:04:43 > 0:04:46the mere deprivation of liberty was not enough.
0:04:46 > 0:04:50Prisons were seen really as places where offenders were held
0:04:50 > 0:04:54awaiting trial and when the trial had been conducted
0:04:54 > 0:04:57the expectation was that they would be subjected
0:04:57 > 0:05:01to corporal or capital punishment in the vast majority of cases.
0:05:01 > 0:05:05The violence of the meted out by the state found its justification
0:05:05 > 0:05:07in the teachings of religion.
0:05:12 > 0:05:16The idea of a physical hell had always been used to underpin
0:05:16 > 0:05:20the idea of corporal punishment that if one accepts
0:05:20 > 0:05:23that God inflicts pain on people
0:05:23 > 0:05:26then by analogy it is perfectly possible
0:05:26 > 0:05:30for people with power to inflict pain on those
0:05:30 > 0:05:32they want to bring into line.
0:05:32 > 0:05:38So once you have this model of pain as something inflicted
0:05:38 > 0:05:42by a judgmental God, a God who punishes,
0:05:42 > 0:05:46who exerts retribution for sins
0:05:46 > 0:05:49then, of course, pain becomes something even acceptable.
0:05:49 > 0:05:53It's something that God inflicts on sinning mankind
0:05:53 > 0:05:56and, therefore, we can therefore inflict
0:05:56 > 0:06:04on those beneath us, children, women, our slaves, so called "savage races".
0:06:04 > 0:06:08So there is that sort of hierarchy of infliction of pain.
0:06:08 > 0:06:12Corporal punishment was not only about retribution,
0:06:12 > 0:06:15it could also benefit the soul.
0:06:15 > 0:06:20Is pain a way of imitating Christ, of, if you like, getting rid
0:06:20 > 0:06:24of your evil, evil nature, your sins here on this earth,
0:06:24 > 0:06:29so that you don't have to sort of suffer in the next life?
0:06:29 > 0:06:34But in the course of the 19th century, such views began to change.
0:06:34 > 0:06:37The infliction of pain in public disappeared.
0:06:37 > 0:06:41One reason was that the growing state could draw on other forms of punishment.
0:06:41 > 0:06:44Prisons were coming into favour.
0:06:44 > 0:06:48The machinery of control was becoming more sophisticated.
0:06:48 > 0:06:52The whippings, chastising, the burnings and the brandings
0:06:52 > 0:06:56and the hangings were no longer necessary
0:06:56 > 0:07:00because of a world which was now being better policed.
0:07:01 > 0:07:05Whipping moved indoors but it didn't disappear.
0:07:05 > 0:07:08Criminals could still be flogged and in English prisons,
0:07:08 > 0:07:14it was a punishment for mutiny or violence used until 1962.
0:07:14 > 0:07:17The doctor would come to your cell
0:07:17 > 0:07:21and would certify that you were fit for the punishment.
0:07:21 > 0:07:24You'd then be escorted to the flogging room,
0:07:24 > 0:07:27where there existed an apparatus called "the Triangle"
0:07:27 > 0:07:29and your legs were spread-eagled,
0:07:29 > 0:07:33your arms were spread-eagled above your head.
0:07:33 > 0:07:38A protective device was fitted around, just above your buttocks
0:07:38 > 0:07:40to protect your kidneys,
0:07:40 > 0:07:44and a proscribed number of lashes were laid on.
0:07:47 > 0:07:50Well, you were strapped to this triangle by your legs
0:07:50 > 0:07:54and then they pulled you up as tight as ever they could pull you
0:07:54 > 0:07:58on the triangle, and then they fixed the ropes up
0:07:58 > 0:08:00and then the governor says,
0:08:00 > 0:08:05"All set? One!" And down it comes like a ton of bricks.
0:08:10 > 0:08:14It nearly knocked all your entrails through you.
0:08:14 > 0:08:18It knocked all the wind right clean out of you.
0:08:18 > 0:08:20It was just like a house falling on you.
0:08:20 > 0:08:24People say you can't feel the next one,
0:08:24 > 0:08:26but I tell you, you feel every one.
0:08:29 > 0:08:35Well, on the eighteenth one, I don't think I could have stood any more.
0:08:35 > 0:08:38Your back's just like a bullock's liver.
0:08:39 > 0:08:43It may sound brutal but with no cheering crowds,
0:08:43 > 0:08:45no revelling in the humiliation,
0:08:45 > 0:08:48this punishment was seen as progress.
0:08:48 > 0:08:50As the 19th century went on,
0:08:50 > 0:08:55a driving force behind reform was a new evangelical Christianity.
0:08:55 > 0:09:00Once you start getting this increased notion of a benevolent God
0:09:00 > 0:09:05who actually is a loving father who wants to nurture
0:09:05 > 0:09:08his children then, of course, it's a very different model.
0:09:08 > 0:09:12Just like God wants to nurture and look after you,
0:09:12 > 0:09:16you, therefore, have to do the same thing with those beneath you.
0:09:16 > 0:09:21Campaigners targeted uses of corporal punishment in private.
0:09:21 > 0:09:24Wife beating became increasingly unacceptable.
0:09:24 > 0:09:28The scandal that had most impact
0:09:28 > 0:09:33was somebody beaten to death by her husband in 1854, which caused
0:09:33 > 0:09:38a big furore and a campaign against wife torture and the idea that
0:09:38 > 0:09:44you could beat your wife legitimately became less and less acceptable.
0:09:44 > 0:09:48Wives may have had less to fear but children weren't off the hook.
0:09:48 > 0:09:54Corporal punishment was thought particularly suitable for young criminals.
0:09:54 > 0:10:00Punishment of youth by caning or birching as a sentence of the court
0:10:00 > 0:10:03was actually regarded as quite progressive for the time,
0:10:03 > 0:10:07because the great fear was that a young person would go to prison
0:10:07 > 0:10:09and become contaminated.
0:10:09 > 0:10:14It was regarded as a more rational option to take a young person
0:10:14 > 0:10:17and to cane them rather than send them to prison.
0:10:17 > 0:10:22There's still, until very, very late in the century, this notion that,
0:10:22 > 0:10:26you know, that there is some evil in all of us
0:10:26 > 0:10:29and in order to reap the benefits of the afterlife
0:10:29 > 0:10:35we actually have to have that sinning nature, if you like,
0:10:35 > 0:10:37beaten out of us as a child.
0:10:37 > 0:10:41It was a view that was to remain prevalent for years to come.
0:10:42 > 0:10:46I think there is something to be said for original sin.
0:10:46 > 0:10:50No, I think they have to be trained to fall in with the ways of our society.
0:10:50 > 0:10:54Most children respond, but there are a few rebels, if you like, or misfits
0:10:54 > 0:10:58who do not respond very readily and some special attention has to be paid to them.
0:10:59 > 0:11:03In the late 19th century, as other forms of corporal punishment
0:11:03 > 0:11:08were being banned, its use in schools, actually increased.
0:11:08 > 0:11:10The 1870 Education Act
0:11:10 > 0:11:16introduces public elementary schooling for the first time
0:11:16 > 0:11:20and ten years later, in 1880, it becomes compulsory for all.
0:11:20 > 0:11:24And that period was a very dramatic one, where
0:11:24 > 0:11:30School Attendance Officers, literally, were dragging children into school.
0:11:30 > 0:11:35In Elementary Schools you had very large classes and discipline
0:11:35 > 0:11:38was a problem for many teachers.
0:11:38 > 0:11:42With conflict in the classroom and growing pressure on teachers from
0:11:42 > 0:11:47humanitarian campaigners, new and powerful justifications
0:11:47 > 0:11:49grew up for the use of the cane.
0:11:49 > 0:11:52The National Union of Teachers in 1900,
0:11:52 > 0:11:55explicitly forced the government
0:11:55 > 0:11:59to retain their right to inflict punishment.
0:11:59 > 0:12:03Corporal punishment is necessary, according to lots of these teachers
0:12:03 > 0:12:07for working class children, because they are already brutalised, that
0:12:07 > 0:12:11they are used to corporal punishment in their own homes
0:12:11 > 0:12:13and, therefore, if teachers don't do it,
0:12:13 > 0:12:15they will be regarded as a soft touch.
0:12:15 > 0:12:18It wasn't just about the classroom.
0:12:18 > 0:12:21This was about the future of the country.
0:12:21 > 0:12:26At the beginning of the 20th century, people are particularly
0:12:26 > 0:12:29exercised about the question of Britain's place in the world.
0:12:29 > 0:12:34They start commenting about the "un-flogged French" and the way in which their
0:12:34 > 0:12:39criminal malpractices reflect their not beating their children.
0:12:39 > 0:12:44They talk about the Boers as a worthy opponent in the South African wars,
0:12:44 > 0:12:49because they flog their children in the proper British way.
0:12:49 > 0:12:55So it gets tied in with the idea of a training in imperial masculinity.
0:12:55 > 0:12:59Corporal punishment is required for people in public schools
0:12:59 > 0:13:02because you have to harden them for the Empire.
0:13:02 > 0:13:05You have to harden them for public service.
0:13:05 > 0:13:07It teaches them these vital traits
0:13:07 > 0:13:12that they are supposed to, they require if they are to lead.
0:13:14 > 0:13:18Where better to see this training in practice, than at Eton College,
0:13:18 > 0:13:21training ground for the leaders of Empire.
0:13:21 > 0:13:22The 4th June at Eton.
0:13:22 > 0:13:26On this great day, the college presents itself to its own world
0:13:26 > 0:13:28as its own world likes best to think of it
0:13:28 > 0:13:32as the preserve of the English ruling class and the source of most of their virtues.
0:13:32 > 0:13:35This is what used to be called "the Top Drawer".
0:13:35 > 0:13:39To most of these people, it would be unthinkable to send their son anywhere else.
0:13:44 > 0:13:48When Eton opened its doors to the cameras for the first time in 1964,
0:13:48 > 0:13:53corporal punishment was still central to the school's ethos.
0:13:53 > 0:13:56The ultimate sanctions of this society are, of course,
0:13:56 > 0:13:58punishments of one sort or another.
0:13:58 > 0:14:02Members of Library can give lines and the captain of the House
0:14:02 > 0:14:07can beat boys, but nowadays only by permission of his Housemaster.
0:14:07 > 0:14:15Private schools educated large numbers of the elite and it is that sentiment
0:14:15 > 0:14:21of "What I had experienced was good for me because it made me the man I am today"
0:14:21 > 0:14:27that has helped to sustain the belief in corporal punishment and therefore support for the practice.
0:14:27 > 0:14:31The only useful thing I ever learned at Eton was to take a beating.
0:14:31 > 0:14:34We didn't feel degraded at all by it.
0:14:34 > 0:14:37We took it as a natural course of events.
0:14:37 > 0:14:38BOY!
0:14:50 > 0:14:52At Eton, as in the rest of society,
0:14:52 > 0:14:56corporal punishment went hand in hand with a strict hierarchy.
0:14:56 > 0:15:01Two tins of peaches and a pound of sugar, please. Thank you. OK.
0:15:01 > 0:15:05These two sixth formers, one an Oppitan and one a Colleger,
0:15:05 > 0:15:08act as the Headmaster's representatives for one week.
0:15:08 > 0:15:10They're called "Preposters".
0:15:10 > 0:15:13During their week of duty, they do no school work.
0:15:13 > 0:15:18What they are concerned with now is the "Bill", the list of boys who are summoned to see the Headmaster.
0:15:21 > 0:15:25The Preposters are very much aware that they are the Chief Magistrate's
0:15:25 > 0:15:28representatives, no knocking on doors.
0:15:32 > 0:15:35- Is Roach in this division, sir?- Yes.
0:15:35 > 0:15:39He's to see the headmaster at quarter past twelve.
0:15:39 > 0:15:44The masters beat people in addition to that, the boys beat each other.
0:15:44 > 0:15:45They fag for each other.
0:15:45 > 0:15:48They start as servants and end up as masters.
0:15:48 > 0:15:52They start by being beaten for their own good and then beating people
0:15:52 > 0:15:57for their good, so there is a kind of self-replicating notion that
0:15:57 > 0:15:59beating is great and beating goes on.
0:15:59 > 0:16:03What kind of life you have at Eton depends very largely on
0:16:03 > 0:16:06the kind of boys you have at the top of your House.
0:16:06 > 0:16:09Under an enlightened captain of the House, life can be very pleasant
0:16:09 > 0:16:14but with an unenlightened boy and a bad Housemaster, it could be a misery.
0:16:14 > 0:16:17What went for Eton went for other public schools.
0:16:17 > 0:16:21The usefulness of corporal punishment was rarely questioned.
0:16:21 > 0:16:25- Yes?- Can I beat Dormitory Four for pillow-fighting after lights out?
0:16:25 > 0:16:27- Who caught them?- I did, sir.
0:16:27 > 0:16:30- Have they had a warning? - Several times for talking, sir.
0:16:30 > 0:16:33- And they've been warned for ragging as well?- Yes, sir.- Well, carry on.
0:16:33 > 0:16:36- You better beat them. - Thank you, sir.
0:16:36 > 0:16:38These schools are closed societies.
0:16:38 > 0:16:41You pay a large amount of money to send your children there
0:16:41 > 0:16:44and, as a consequence of being there,
0:16:44 > 0:16:47they become part of a sort of club, or social order,
0:16:47 > 0:16:50so the inclination of everyone connected to the school is that
0:16:50 > 0:16:54the school should run itself as it pleases and no-one should interfere.
0:16:54 > 0:16:59Outside the public school tradition quite different ideas
0:16:59 > 0:17:02were circulating about the correct way to train a child.
0:17:02 > 0:17:05Oh, Lindsey. Come on, sausage!
0:17:07 > 0:17:09From the early 20th century,
0:17:09 > 0:17:13child psychologists had been arguing against corporal punishment.
0:17:13 > 0:17:16They were eager to spread the word.
0:17:16 > 0:17:22The vast majority of parenthood books argued, if you hurt a child
0:17:22 > 0:17:27as part of your educational process you gave the child a belief that
0:17:27 > 0:17:30hurting was what you did to other people
0:17:30 > 0:17:32when they had done something wrong.
0:17:32 > 0:17:37You thus created cruelty and violence rather than preventing it.
0:17:37 > 0:17:39What about children though?
0:17:39 > 0:17:43If you had them and when they were naughty, what would you do with them?
0:17:43 > 0:17:46Oh, just give them a scrub.
0:17:46 > 0:17:48THEY GIGGLE
0:17:48 > 0:17:54From psychology studies to parenting books, the dominant message was that corporal punishment was wrong.
0:17:54 > 0:17:58It wasn't a deterrent and it could confuse the child.
0:17:58 > 0:18:03By the 1960s, those keen to educate parents had a voice on television.
0:18:03 > 0:18:05We tell them all sorts of things.
0:18:05 > 0:18:07Lots of things, "Don't do this, don't do that,"
0:18:07 > 0:18:11and they have to try and make sense of everything we tell them.
0:18:11 > 0:18:14What does your mummy do when she sees bed covers
0:18:14 > 0:18:18all over the place and beds turned upside down, what does she do?
0:18:18 > 0:18:20- Give us a smack.- She does?- Yeah.
0:18:20 > 0:18:25- And does it stop you doing it again, when she gives you a smack?- No!
0:18:25 > 0:18:30- Yes, it does!- It stops you? Does it stop you, John?- No, not so much.
0:18:30 > 0:18:32It doesn't stop you so much?
0:18:32 > 0:18:34He gets two smacks if he does it again.
0:18:34 > 0:18:38Supposing that Mummy would explain to you why it's wrong,
0:18:38 > 0:18:40do you think that would help?
0:18:40 > 0:18:42- Yes.- Why?
0:18:42 > 0:18:44- I don't know.- You don't know why?
0:18:44 > 0:18:49Don't you think smacking is as good or do you think its better to explain to you?
0:18:49 > 0:18:53I think explaining would be a good way.
0:18:53 > 0:18:55Why do you think it would be a good way?
0:18:56 > 0:19:00Well, it would show why you shouldn't do it.
0:19:00 > 0:19:05- Maybe it would stop you from doing it.- You think so?- Yes.
0:19:07 > 0:19:12But the methods advocated on TV and in books did not always find
0:19:12 > 0:19:14favour with the parents.
0:19:14 > 0:19:19Even though the evidence put forward by child psychologists in particular
0:19:19 > 0:19:24very, very strongly suggest that corporal punishment is ineffective
0:19:24 > 0:19:26and it probably is counter productive.
0:19:26 > 0:19:29Actually, a lot of parents are not taking that on board.
0:19:29 > 0:19:34What's the worst thing that can happen to any of you when you've done something wrong?
0:19:34 > 0:19:35A daddy smack.
0:19:35 > 0:19:37A daddy smack?
0:19:37 > 0:19:39Not a mummy smack, well, Mummy smacks quite hard
0:19:39 > 0:19:41but it's less than Daddy's would be like.
0:19:41 > 0:19:48There's this hostility or anxiety about, "Well, who are they to tell me what to do?
0:19:48 > 0:19:51"This is the way my mother did it. This is the way my father did it,"
0:19:51 > 0:19:57that is passed down through the generations and somehow these child psychologists
0:19:57 > 0:20:03are intervening into the domestic sphere in a way that they do not have the right to do.
0:20:03 > 0:20:07John, please. John. John, I shall smack you.
0:20:07 > 0:20:10John Ladbury and his wife have four young children,
0:20:10 > 0:20:14beat the children when they misbehave.
0:20:14 > 0:20:16Children, it's bath time.
0:20:18 > 0:20:20Caning is an effective deterrent,
0:20:20 > 0:20:23the gentle approach, they believe, is a useless one.
0:20:23 > 0:20:26But do the Ladburys admit to being the strictest?
0:20:26 > 0:20:31Oh, yes, I think so. Yes, we are very strict, in as much,
0:20:31 > 0:20:35well I should think we come under the heading of "older discipline".
0:20:35 > 0:20:38- Oh, I don't know. - Well, we do use the cane.
0:20:38 > 0:20:40- Oh, yes, indeed. - We do cane them.- Yes, yes.
0:20:40 > 0:20:43- For what sort of thing? - When they get...
0:20:43 > 0:20:46Hooligan, hooliganism is a thing we can't tolerate.
0:20:46 > 0:20:49I mean, when they start leaping about on the furniture
0:20:49 > 0:20:52and that sort of thing, we'll warn them several times
0:20:52 > 0:20:55and if they continue, well, then "bend over,"
0:20:55 > 0:20:58- and we cane them. - How hard do you cane them?
0:20:58 > 0:21:01Well, it stings but, you know,
0:21:01 > 0:21:07it hurts me more than it does them I'm sure,
0:21:07 > 0:21:10but they have a little weep and then they're quiet, they sleep
0:21:10 > 0:21:13and the next morning, it's all forgotten.
0:21:13 > 0:21:15Are you sure it's all forgotten the next morning?
0:21:17 > 0:21:20They never mention it, they never seem to...
0:21:20 > 0:21:23Well, even if it isn't, so what?
0:21:23 > 0:21:24THEY LAUGH
0:21:25 > 0:21:27Mother and father were the head of the household,
0:21:27 > 0:21:31"What right do these outsiders have to come and tell us
0:21:31 > 0:21:35"what we should be doing within our four walls?"
0:21:35 > 0:21:38Is there anything your mummy and daddy do that you don't like?
0:21:38 > 0:21:42Yes, something what I really don't like, when they smack me.
0:21:42 > 0:21:46"Hmm, naughty boy!"
0:21:46 > 0:21:50Corporal punishment remained such a normal part of life
0:21:50 > 0:21:55that in popular culture it took on a distinctly humorous flavour.
0:21:55 > 0:21:58In its comic representations,
0:21:58 > 0:22:05corporal punishment, is kind of the risk that a high spirited boy runs.
0:22:05 > 0:22:09So, Dennis the Menace always gets the slipper
0:22:09 > 0:22:13because he's a menace but, you know, we love him for being so.
0:22:13 > 0:22:15Only creeps don't get beaten.
0:22:15 > 0:22:18In the 1950s, there is no doubt that corporal punishment
0:22:18 > 0:22:19was associated with jokes.
0:22:19 > 0:22:25I mean, in writing there's Molesworth Down With School 1953 which,
0:22:25 > 0:22:28I can still remember had a page - "Kanes I have known."
0:22:28 > 0:22:32They've all got different names, different types and they are drawn for you.
0:22:32 > 0:22:35And it was hilarious, you know. There was Old Faithful,
0:22:35 > 0:22:39the standard cane, there's the one with the swishy end, there's the one
0:22:39 > 0:22:40with the telescopic sight on it,
0:22:40 > 0:22:44there's the one that's like a wonderful carbon fibre fishing rod.
0:22:44 > 0:22:46And those are, "Kanes I have known"
0:22:46 > 0:22:49and it goes with "Tortures And Grips Of The Masters."
0:22:49 > 0:22:53You turn over and there's the clipping someone with a ruler, or punch at the numbskull hit
0:22:53 > 0:22:57and it was thought to be hilarious, with lots of cartoons by Ronald Searle.
0:22:57 > 0:23:01And that coincides with a little bit later Whack-O! on television.
0:23:01 > 0:23:03- I'll hear no more of it.- Sir...
0:23:03 > 0:23:05Don't argue with me, boy!
0:23:05 > 0:23:09In this school, I am the law.
0:23:09 > 0:23:11Le lois c'est moi!
0:23:11 > 0:23:14Et Jim le loi,
0:23:14 > 0:23:16and I am not only the judge I'm also the jury.
0:23:16 > 0:23:19And I'll tell you something else I am.
0:23:19 > 0:23:21I heard you say that!
0:23:21 > 0:23:25All right, fat pig or not, my boy,
0:23:25 > 0:23:27I will not stand for insubordination.
0:23:27 > 0:23:32You will all report to my study immediately after prep for a dose of Jim's immaculate,
0:23:32 > 0:23:35magical, cure all!
0:23:35 > 0:23:40Oh, it looks like we've only made things worse.
0:23:40 > 0:23:45Billy Bunter who's beatings at the end of almost every story
0:23:45 > 0:23:51at the hands of Mr Quelch are regarded by the storytellers, jolly good comeuppance.
0:23:51 > 0:23:54You know, we're not supposed to think, I fear,
0:23:54 > 0:23:59"Poor Billy Bunter, what an awful school, someone give him some psychotherapy."
0:23:59 > 0:24:02We're supposed to think "What a coward.
0:24:02 > 0:24:04"Just typical of him."
0:24:04 > 0:24:08- Oh, law!- You're wasting time, Bunter, turn round.
0:24:08 > 0:24:10The laughter seemed to precede a change of mood.
0:24:10 > 0:24:13In the 1960s, the anti-corporal punishment message
0:24:13 > 0:24:15suddenly reached a new audience.
0:24:15 > 0:24:18In the funny way that popular culture reflects things
0:24:18 > 0:24:20there's something going on that creates anxiety
0:24:20 > 0:24:22around corporal punishment.
0:24:22 > 0:24:25The film Spare the Rod, 1961, is about a supply teacher,
0:24:25 > 0:24:28played by Max Bygraves, Mr Saunders, who arrives
0:24:28 > 0:24:33in a school in the East End of London, Worral Street School, a difficult school.
0:24:33 > 0:24:36There's a scene at the beginning of the film where Saunders comes in
0:24:36 > 0:24:38and is first introduced to the headmaster.
0:24:38 > 0:24:40A hard bitten, cynical Donald Pleasance,
0:24:40 > 0:24:43the chain-smoking, coughing, Donald Pleasance,
0:24:43 > 0:24:46who is under great pressure to hold this school together.
0:24:46 > 0:24:49And the idealism of the new man, the supply teacher, is completely
0:24:49 > 0:24:53contrasted with this guy who's been in the business all his life.
0:24:53 > 0:24:56He sees it almost as a battle to keep discipline.
0:24:56 > 0:24:59Always cane on the left hand and leave the other for writing,
0:24:59 > 0:25:01unless you have to give two strokes then it can't be helped.
0:25:01 > 0:25:05- I see.- Make sure the arm is held out horizontally, then if you miss the hand,
0:25:05 > 0:25:09there's no risk of catching him across the body. You can't be too careful.
0:25:09 > 0:25:13- Thank you.- Oh, by the way, when you cane them you have to enter it in the Punishment Book.
0:25:13 > 0:25:16Thank you, but I'd like to try a few other methods first.
0:25:16 > 0:25:19It's up to you. If you can get along without it, so much the better
0:25:19 > 0:25:23but with class two, I don't think you've got very much chance.
0:25:23 > 0:25:27Most school films are on the side of tradition.
0:25:27 > 0:25:30This completely reverses that from the word go.
0:25:30 > 0:25:34Newfangled is good and old traditional is bad, because actually
0:25:34 > 0:25:36it's got sour, cynical, doesn't believe in themselves,
0:25:36 > 0:25:40no self esteem and doesn't believe in the children either.
0:25:40 > 0:25:43There's a boy in class played by Richard O'Sullivan called Harkness,
0:25:43 > 0:25:48who begins to understand and identify with the Max Bygraves character,
0:25:48 > 0:25:53but there is a riot in the classroom and the perpetrators that riot say,
0:25:53 > 0:25:56- "Why isn't Harkness getting beaten as well?"- What about Harkness then?
0:25:56 > 0:25:58Yeah, what about Harkness? He was shouting too.
0:25:58 > 0:26:01- Yeah, what about Harkness?- He was making more noise than anybody.
0:26:01 > 0:26:05- Bet you don't cane him. - Teacher's pet! Blue eyes!
0:26:05 > 0:26:08Be quiet!
0:26:08 > 0:26:10All right, come on. You too, Harkness.
0:26:10 > 0:26:14'Actually, Harkness was trying to stop the others from rioting,'
0:26:14 > 0:26:18but Bygraves doesn't know that so he whacks him as well as the others.
0:26:26 > 0:26:27Go and sit down.
0:26:32 > 0:26:34So you haven't just got resorting to the cane,
0:26:34 > 0:26:36you've got injustice as well.
0:26:36 > 0:26:38All the gains that have been made in the first half of the film,
0:26:38 > 0:26:42of getting this boy's confidence, are completely shattered in that moment.
0:26:42 > 0:26:46And the injustice of it, the resorting to the cane,
0:26:46 > 0:26:50the fact that Bygraves didn't believe him, all those things come through and it snapped.
0:26:50 > 0:26:53There's no trust between teacher and student any more.
0:26:53 > 0:26:55It's a very important moment.
0:26:55 > 0:26:58Why did you join in with them? Against me?
0:26:58 > 0:27:00I didn't, I was trying to shut 'em up.
0:27:02 > 0:27:05Oh, I should have known that, shouldn't I?
0:27:05 > 0:27:08Yeah, you should, shouldn't you!
0:27:10 > 0:27:12The film's moral is clear.
0:27:12 > 0:27:17The use of the cane is destructive, embittering. It creates rebellion.
0:27:17 > 0:27:23It was a view that would be represented even more vividly in the 1968 film If.
0:27:23 > 0:27:26You three have become a danger to the morale of the house.
0:27:26 > 0:27:29By the time of If, it's a state of the nation movie almost.
0:27:29 > 0:27:31It's not just about the school,
0:27:31 > 0:27:34it's about the establishment, it's about rebellion
0:27:34 > 0:27:38and it's about how the establishment sustains itself through violence.
0:27:38 > 0:27:41You should be prepared to set an example of responsibility.
0:27:41 > 0:27:42You're a damn nuisance.
0:27:42 > 0:27:45And as such, you must be punished.
0:27:45 > 0:27:48And my goodness, they really go for it. It is a terrifying scene.
0:27:48 > 0:27:55In fact at the time, I remember reviewers compared it with the Gestapo, that scene.
0:27:55 > 0:27:58You know, it's like a scene in a concentration camp movie.
0:27:58 > 0:28:02Not just because of the thrashing but because you've got the horizontal bars
0:28:02 > 0:28:06in the gym, you've got the boys going in and when Travis goes in, Malcolm McDowell,
0:28:06 > 0:28:11he puts out his hands on the horizontal, it's clearly a crucifixion that's going on.
0:28:11 > 0:28:12I mean, that's very clear.
0:28:12 > 0:28:14So it's much more than just a flogging.
0:28:35 > 0:28:39Wait till you are told! Get down.
0:28:51 > 0:28:56This is a ritual humiliation and it's going to sow the seeds of revolt.
0:28:56 > 0:29:01So you get the beating and then "Dissolve, Resistance" is the next chapter heading.
0:29:01 > 0:29:04That is the last straw.
0:29:04 > 0:29:09In the '60s, they did talk about collapse into disorder if it disappeared,
0:29:09 > 0:29:13but then there were films, like Lindsay Anderson's If,
0:29:13 > 0:29:14that indicated the opposite,
0:29:14 > 0:29:17that it actually caused a collapse into disorder.
0:29:22 > 0:29:25If's final scene was always meant to be a fantasy.
0:29:25 > 0:29:29Travis, the revolutionary, fighting the massed forces of the establishment
0:29:29 > 0:29:33with their obsession with tradition and discipline.
0:29:33 > 0:29:36But the potential for corporal punishment to lead to rebellion
0:29:36 > 0:29:38was beginning to be played out in reality.
0:29:40 > 0:29:44In 1972, school children took to the streets.
0:29:44 > 0:29:50Trafalgar Square, May 17th, the forces of law and order are on standby for trouble,
0:29:50 > 0:29:55ready to turn away a march of London schoolchildren organised by the Schools Action Union.
0:29:55 > 0:29:58Among those demonstrating are many who say they are angry
0:29:58 > 0:30:02at being treated by teachers as though they were less than human.
0:30:02 > 0:30:07Some young people here, see the movement as a way of bringing the class struggle into the classroom.
0:30:07 > 0:30:10The school strikes were initially about...
0:30:10 > 0:30:12They were very much issue based,
0:30:12 > 0:30:18and had some very specific aims, which were very relevant to all children in schools really.
0:30:18 > 0:30:21It's not just the uniforms, it's the caning that matters.
0:30:21 > 0:30:25Corporal punishment was very significant to their campaign.
0:30:25 > 0:30:29In public schools there was always the history of children should get
0:30:29 > 0:30:32six of the best, but I'm actually not sure it happened as much there
0:30:32 > 0:30:37as it did in a lot of the state schools, particularly in secondary moderns.
0:30:37 > 0:30:41Children from all over London, just kept on arriving
0:30:41 > 0:30:44and there were hundreds upon hundreds of children.
0:30:44 > 0:30:48What they did was, they split us into groups and they kept herding us all over the place,
0:30:48 > 0:30:51the main idea being to stop us getting into Trafalgar Square.
0:30:51 > 0:30:57The demonstration should have taken place here, in Trafalgar Square at 11 o'clock, but it didn't,
0:30:57 > 0:31:01because the police cordoned off the Square and refused to allow any of the children in.
0:31:01 > 0:31:07A crowd gathered on the steps on the far side of the Square decided to go to Hyde Park.
0:31:10 > 0:31:14The demonstration attracted plenty of media interest.
0:31:14 > 0:31:17From her parents' house in London, Liza Dresner acted
0:31:17 > 0:31:21as a representative for the Schools Action Union.
0:31:21 > 0:31:27I can remember a very a funny moment when I was asked how many members the Schools Action Union had.
0:31:27 > 0:31:28How many members do you have?
0:31:28 > 0:31:30We never give out membership figures.
0:31:30 > 0:31:33- It's policy that we don't give out membership figures.- Why not?
0:31:33 > 0:31:36We never have done and we will never do. It's part of our tactics.
0:31:36 > 0:31:38And I cobbled together some kind of answer.
0:31:38 > 0:31:39The fact was, we had no idea.
0:31:39 > 0:31:43If people are unaware how many of us there are, they never know if they've smashed us or not.
0:31:43 > 0:31:47But there are grown-ups, not schoolchildren, in your organisation,
0:31:47 > 0:31:48who are influencing it all?
0:31:48 > 0:31:53No, certainly not. Obviously we accept advice from everybody.
0:31:53 > 0:31:55People who respect us, we respect.
0:31:55 > 0:31:59'All of us got deeply frustrated by the fact that everybody seemed to be'
0:31:59 > 0:32:01looking for these hidden adults,
0:32:01 > 0:32:05because it just carried on this myth that children cannot think.
0:32:05 > 0:32:08There's nobody pulling strings, there's no, sort of, person paying us.
0:32:08 > 0:32:11I wish somebody was, we haven't got any money.
0:32:11 > 0:32:14But there's no one individual who's paying us and saying,
0:32:14 > 0:32:18"You do our views and we'll give you so much money."
0:32:18 > 0:32:22We're just working with school students and teachers fighting for revolutionary change.
0:32:22 > 0:32:25We were thinking for ourselves. We were making our own decisions.
0:32:25 > 0:32:28I'm very proud of the way we reacted during that time.
0:32:29 > 0:32:33I think what the SAU did and what the strikes did was bring
0:32:33 > 0:32:36corporal punishment as an issue to the forefront of discussion.
0:32:36 > 0:32:40It was extraordinary. I think a lot of children who came out were extraordinary.
0:32:40 > 0:32:43They took amazing risks.
0:32:43 > 0:32:44Just a year later,
0:32:44 > 0:32:50inner London schools did abolish the cane but only in primary schools.
0:32:50 > 0:32:52In the judicial system, by contrast,
0:32:52 > 0:32:56corporal punishment had been banned since 1948.
0:32:56 > 0:33:00In the reforming mood of the 1960s, young offenders who might have once
0:33:00 > 0:33:04been birched, were now described as victims of society.
0:33:04 > 0:33:06All this created a backlash.
0:33:06 > 0:33:12Let Mr Butler get his head out of the fluffy clouds of idealism.
0:33:12 > 0:33:15LAUGHTER
0:33:15 > 0:33:18And I say this very seriously.
0:33:18 > 0:33:24Let him be a man and let him reintroduce corporal punishment for these young offenders.
0:33:24 > 0:33:26CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:33:27 > 0:33:31This is the instrument of punishment and deterrents
0:33:31 > 0:33:36that people here on Clydeside, many of them, want to see brought back.
0:33:36 > 0:33:38Pressing the button...
0:33:38 > 0:33:41With growing fears about violent crime and delinquency,
0:33:41 > 0:33:45calls for a return to the short, sharp shock were frequent.
0:33:45 > 0:33:49In Glasgow, a society was formed to bring back the birch.
0:33:49 > 0:33:55The members of the society working actively in the campaign, defended their attitude vigorously.
0:33:55 > 0:33:58Let me quote you what one of those boys said.
0:33:58 > 0:34:03He said, "Nine times I felt this thing coming down on me and I just screamed and screamed and screamed."
0:34:03 > 0:34:08And what a coward he must have been, because think what he must have done to merit that.
0:34:08 > 0:34:13Think of it? And think of some of the people like the policeman,
0:34:13 > 0:34:15who was blinded in the course of his duty,
0:34:15 > 0:34:17that's a life sentence that he's got.
0:34:17 > 0:34:22There's another person that I spoke to who has ended up in a mental home for life.
0:34:22 > 0:34:25When we hear of an atrocious crime, I mean,
0:34:25 > 0:34:30we hear of an elderly lady taking her pension from the local Post Office,
0:34:30 > 0:34:33knocked to the ground and kicked about the head,
0:34:33 > 0:34:37a little bit of money stolen, I think we all have a visceral reaction -
0:34:37 > 0:34:40"Why doesn't somebody punch this person?
0:34:40 > 0:34:43"Why doesn't this person be subjected to some of the indignities
0:34:43 > 0:34:46"that they have been imposed on this innocent person?"
0:34:46 > 0:34:49I think that is almost a human instinct.
0:34:49 > 0:34:53Why do you want to see the birch brought back?
0:34:53 > 0:34:58Well, I would say my reasons are, because, at the moment,
0:34:58 > 0:35:03I feel the penalties being imposed for crimes of vicious assault
0:35:03 > 0:35:08are not really bringing these assaults to an end.
0:35:08 > 0:35:10They are not having the desired affect.
0:35:10 > 0:35:14It's against this background of increasing crimes of violence
0:35:14 > 0:35:18that the movement is growing for the reintroduction of the birch.
0:35:18 > 0:35:22It gathered momentum last July after an incident in the Isle of Man,
0:35:22 > 0:35:27when four Glasgow youths of 19 were convicted of assaulting two sunbathers.
0:35:27 > 0:35:29It was a serious assault.
0:35:29 > 0:35:34One of the sunbathers had his jaw broken and had to have five stitches put in his head.
0:35:34 > 0:35:39The youths from Glasgow were fined a total of £80 but that was not all.
0:35:39 > 0:35:44They were taken downstairs and each given nine strokes of the birch.
0:35:44 > 0:35:47This led to enormous publicity here in Scotland
0:35:47 > 0:35:51and many letters to the newspapers, welcoming this use of the birch.
0:35:51 > 0:35:56I think in a case like that, the birch would be a more effective deterrent than probation.
0:35:58 > 0:36:03Birching may have gone from UK courts, but in the Isle of Man,
0:36:03 > 0:36:06its use for young offenders increased in the '60s.
0:36:06 > 0:36:08Many on the mainland looked on with envy.
0:36:08 > 0:36:14The Isle of Man is the last place in Europe which allows corporal punishment by the state,
0:36:14 > 0:36:20the last place where a policeman can cane a child of eight, or birch a boy of 14.
0:36:20 > 0:36:24And the reason that birching was retained in the Isle of Man was
0:36:24 > 0:36:27the Isle of Man wanted to maintain its distinctive
0:36:27 > 0:36:30image of itself.
0:36:30 > 0:36:35Small towns, small communities, offenders come from the outside.
0:36:35 > 0:36:40It was a very big holiday resort until quite modern times,
0:36:40 > 0:36:43such disorder as there was came from those ruffians
0:36:43 > 0:36:47in Liverpool and Merseyside who descended
0:36:47 > 0:36:50on the island and misbehaved.
0:36:50 > 0:36:53The majority of Manxmen support the laws on corporal punishment
0:36:53 > 0:36:57because they fear that the tourists who treble the population
0:36:57 > 0:37:01during attractions like the TT Races bring hooliganism with them.
0:37:01 > 0:37:04They see Britain, which they call the adjacent island,
0:37:04 > 0:37:09as a thug-ridden country where no-one is safe to walk the streets at night.
0:37:09 > 0:37:14They think the birch helps to preserve the Isle of Man as a safe and civilised haven
0:37:14 > 0:37:18and the birching issue is just part of their bid to run the island
0:37:18 > 0:37:21the way they want, without any interference from Britain.
0:37:21 > 0:37:24I think people do see it as a feature.
0:37:24 > 0:37:27When I've been across on many occasions, one of the first things
0:37:27 > 0:37:31people greet me with, "Oh, you live on the Isle of Man, you've got the birch.
0:37:31 > 0:37:34"You're one of the few civilised places that are left."
0:37:34 > 0:37:41But by the late 1970s, the tide was turning against the Isle of Man, at least in Europe.
0:37:41 > 0:37:46The European Court of Human Rights was to pass judgment on the birching of a boy for assault.
0:37:46 > 0:37:52The Manx people took to the streets to defend the birch.
0:37:52 > 0:37:55The big political story comes to a climax tomorrow in Strasbourg
0:37:55 > 0:37:59where the Manx birching laws go on trial before the European Court of Human Rights.
0:37:59 > 0:38:04On the outcome of this depends future relations between the Manx and British governments.
0:38:04 > 0:38:07Do you think this is a civilising that you have corporal punishment,
0:38:07 > 0:38:09that you inflict pain on others, is that civilised?
0:38:09 > 0:38:13If they deserved punishment, I think it's an excellent idea
0:38:13 > 0:38:18and the removal of it would be absolutely disastrous.
0:38:18 > 0:38:20Turn round, Rita!
0:38:20 > 0:38:21LAUGHTER
0:38:25 > 0:38:30Do you feel that? Of course you don't!
0:38:30 > 0:38:34I mean, there's... I don't know what all the fuss and bother's about.
0:38:34 > 0:38:38This is over in a few seconds and it's a salutary lesson.
0:38:38 > 0:38:41It's a short, sharp lesson instead of a short, sharp prison sentence,
0:38:41 > 0:38:44which is costing the country so much money.
0:38:44 > 0:38:46The prisons are over-flowing in Britain.
0:38:46 > 0:38:50The Isle of Man's birch rod was actually made of hazel twigs,
0:38:50 > 0:38:54soaked in salt water to increase their flexibility and strength.
0:38:54 > 0:38:57This is a birch rod.
0:38:57 > 0:39:02They must not be longer than 40 inches, the overall weight
0:39:02 > 0:39:09must not exceed nine ounces, and the open end, when splayed, must not exceed six inches.
0:39:09 > 0:39:16The person who's to be punished is brought into this room, through this door,
0:39:16 > 0:39:18and he stands by this table.
0:39:18 > 0:39:23He's instructed to unfasten his trousers
0:39:23 > 0:39:28and drop them to the ground and he's to lean across the table.
0:39:28 > 0:39:29BIRCH WHIPPING
0:39:29 > 0:39:32I understand in recent weeks you have changed the rules,
0:39:32 > 0:39:35so that a person may now be birched wearing his trousers.
0:39:35 > 0:39:38Previously it had to be on the naked buttocks.
0:39:38 > 0:39:43Yes, that's quite correct. The rules by the governor have been changed recently to that effect.
0:39:43 > 0:39:46But all the people actually birched on the Isle of Man in history
0:39:46 > 0:39:49- were all birched on the naked buttocks?- That's quite true.
0:39:49 > 0:39:51BIRCH WHIPPING
0:39:51 > 0:39:57Nonetheless, the European Court Of Human Rights ruled that birching was degrading.
0:39:57 > 0:40:00There were no more birchings on the Isle of Man after 1976.
0:40:00 > 0:40:07Meanwhile, in mainland Britain, the attack on school corporal punishment continued.
0:40:07 > 0:40:11Anti-caning pressure group STOPP has led the campaign to banish all forms
0:40:11 > 0:40:14of physical punishment from the classroom.
0:40:14 > 0:40:16Its secretary is Tom Scott, and he's with us now
0:40:16 > 0:40:18in our Central London studio...
0:40:18 > 0:40:24Tom Scott was one of a minority of schoolteachers who came out against corporal punishment.
0:40:24 > 0:40:27I think we started with a moral objection to it.
0:40:27 > 0:40:31We felt it was a barbaric form of punishment.
0:40:31 > 0:40:36There is some evidence to suggest that discipline in the classroom has got much worse.
0:40:36 > 0:40:42- Is there not, do you think, a case for us to retain it in some circumstances?- No!
0:40:42 > 0:40:48STOPP was founded in 1968 and to begin with, it struggled to find support.
0:40:48 > 0:40:55The teaching unions fought tooth and nail against abolition of corporal punishment
0:40:55 > 0:40:58and the whole atmosphere would be one of...
0:40:58 > 0:41:00"You're a crank if you don't believe in hitting children.
0:41:00 > 0:41:02"You're a do-gooder."
0:41:02 > 0:41:06And it was very difficult to sort of find any common ground.
0:41:06 > 0:41:10By the late '70s, some of the unions were changing their line,
0:41:10 > 0:41:13but some continued to fight to keep corporal punishment.
0:41:13 > 0:41:16Belting works with your youngster,
0:41:16 > 0:41:21what I would call your reasonably well-behaved youngster,
0:41:21 > 0:41:25who perhaps has stepped out of line on a few issues
0:41:25 > 0:41:27and needs to be brought up sharp.
0:41:27 > 0:41:29It's effective with these youngsters.
0:41:29 > 0:41:33The whole language was kind of, you know, "Corporal punishment
0:41:33 > 0:41:38"is administered as a last resort, in a reasonable and moderate way."
0:41:38 > 0:41:41And then you'd find that this was absolute nonsense.
0:41:41 > 0:41:45And I felt we had to make this evident to everyone.
0:41:45 > 0:41:50A SIX-year-old who had his trousers pulled down by his teacher,
0:41:50 > 0:41:52in front of the rest of the class.
0:41:52 > 0:41:54He... She didn't even use the belt on him,
0:41:54 > 0:41:57she took his own sand shoe and walloped his backside
0:41:57 > 0:41:58with his sand shoe.
0:41:58 > 0:42:00Now, the Director Of Education said...
0:42:00 > 0:42:05The father complained and the Director Of Education said,
0:42:05 > 0:42:10"The integrity of that teacher cannot be questioned."
0:42:12 > 0:42:14WHISTLE BLOWS
0:42:14 > 0:42:17From the beginnings of compulsory education, the cane -
0:42:17 > 0:42:23in Scotland, the belt or tawse - had become tied up with a teacher's professional identity,
0:42:23 > 0:42:25protection against disorder in the classroom.
0:42:25 > 0:42:27# We don't need
0:42:27 > 0:42:30# No education... #
0:42:31 > 0:42:34There is this permanent fear,
0:42:34 > 0:42:37I experienced it myself as a young teacher,
0:42:37 > 0:42:40of perhaps losing control over a class.
0:42:40 > 0:42:44This was the most dreadful thing that could happen to a teacher,
0:42:44 > 0:42:48the idea of a class moving out of control.
0:42:48 > 0:42:52# We don't need no thought control... #
0:42:52 > 0:42:57It's difficult to explain to anybody that's not been a teacher just how uncomfortable this is.
0:42:57 > 0:43:03The knowledge that this group of children is out of control and that other teachers may hear
0:43:03 > 0:43:07and that people will see that you are... That you're failing.
0:43:07 > 0:43:11# Teachers, leave those kids alone... #
0:43:11 > 0:43:14It would almost be like you were in the trenches
0:43:14 > 0:43:18and teachers would sometimes say "Right, once more unto the breach!"
0:43:18 > 0:43:22And they would think of it as being that sort of battle,
0:43:22 > 0:43:25a battle where they'd have to survive.
0:43:25 > 0:43:28# Hey! Teachers!
0:43:28 > 0:43:30# Leave them kids alone! #
0:43:30 > 0:43:36The cane, rather like a field marshall's baton, in some kind of way, symbolised authority.
0:43:36 > 0:43:42Caning depended partly on the compliance of pupils themselves in submitting to it.
0:43:42 > 0:43:45Many were actually in favour of its use.
0:43:45 > 0:43:47I think they should use the cane for people
0:43:47 > 0:43:48who have been warned before,
0:43:48 > 0:43:52they've have had other punishments, detention or suspension or lines,
0:43:52 > 0:43:54and it just didn't have any effect on them.
0:43:54 > 0:44:01When I went into teaching myself, certainly, there was no thought of corporal punishment on my part.
0:44:01 > 0:44:04But there was a 15-year-old boy
0:44:04 > 0:44:07that I was teaching in my first year of teaching,
0:44:07 > 0:44:09and having a lot of trouble with.
0:44:09 > 0:44:11He was disruptive,
0:44:11 > 0:44:14noisy, difficult to teach.
0:44:14 > 0:44:17I said, "Why are you like this? Why are you behaving so badly?
0:44:17 > 0:44:21Why are you making the class so difficult for everybody else?"
0:44:21 > 0:44:25And he said, "You should hit us, you ought to hit me."
0:44:25 > 0:44:27And I was absolutely stunned.
0:44:27 > 0:44:29I said, "What do you mean?"
0:44:29 > 0:44:33He said, "If you don't hit us, you're not going to get anywhere."
0:44:33 > 0:44:37And he made it very clear to me that I looked weak
0:44:37 > 0:44:44and that if I didn't do something to rectify the situation, I was never going to get his respect.
0:44:44 > 0:44:50Most children want discipline, want authority, want structures.
0:44:50 > 0:44:52I'd hate to be suspended. My mum would kill me.
0:44:52 > 0:44:55You know, everybody would know you'd been suspended
0:44:55 > 0:44:58because you weren't in school, but if you had the cane,
0:44:58 > 0:45:02it's so quick and sharp that it's over in a few seconds,
0:45:02 > 0:45:05it wouldn't make an imprint on my memory.
0:45:05 > 0:45:08You have to treat violence with violence in some cases.
0:45:08 > 0:45:11You have to deal with bullying, and the only way to stop it is through caning,
0:45:11 > 0:45:14and if then it doesn't stop, I don't think anything else
0:45:14 > 0:45:18would really act as a deterrent other than caning.
0:45:19 > 0:45:24Many pupils, parents and teachers may have defended the cane,
0:45:24 > 0:45:29but increasingly, the media was airing the views of the abolitionists.
0:45:29 > 0:45:32Why were you called Killer?
0:45:32 > 0:45:34Well, I was the gentlest of men.
0:45:34 > 0:45:37Actually, I never laid a hand on a pupil unless I stumbled in the aisle.
0:45:37 > 0:45:41Do you think schoolmasters, most of them, believe in corporal punishment?
0:45:41 > 0:45:45When asked to vote, they vote to retain the tawse and the cane, why?
0:45:45 > 0:45:49Because when you are thrashing a child, you don't have to be teaching him.
0:45:49 > 0:45:52Ha, ha! There you are! You see, you know the ropes too well!
0:45:52 > 0:45:56Do you have any right to morally dictate to the child its course of conduct?
0:45:56 > 0:45:58Do you have any right to teach it religion?
0:45:58 > 0:46:01Do you have to keep on dinning into its head Christian ethics
0:46:01 > 0:46:04when you don't subscribe to them yourself?
0:46:04 > 0:46:06Of course we have the right to do this.
0:46:06 > 0:46:11After all, we are faced with a formless mass of more or less social nuisances.
0:46:11 > 0:46:16I mean, you are giving to the child the dignity, intelligence and genius that the child does not have!
0:46:17 > 0:46:22Anti-corporal punishment campaigners STOPP were even given their own programme.
0:46:22 > 0:46:26Four out of five British schools still use corporal punishment.
0:46:26 > 0:46:29In many schools, it is an everyday event.
0:46:29 > 0:46:33In most parts of Britain, teachers can cane infants, girls and boys of all ages up to 18,
0:46:33 > 0:46:36and even the mentally and physically handicapped...
0:46:36 > 0:46:40The Open Door film was one of the first things I got involved in.
0:46:40 > 0:46:43It was quite a good opportunity, because the whole idea
0:46:43 > 0:46:48of the Open Door was to give editorial control to campaigns.
0:46:48 > 0:46:52It was a way of publicising one's cause.
0:46:53 > 0:46:55Is THIS professional, Mr Jarvis?
0:46:55 > 0:46:57Or this?
0:46:57 > 0:46:59One argument highlighted in the Open Door film
0:46:59 > 0:47:03was the possible sexual element in corporal punishment.
0:47:03 > 0:47:05It's common... Common knowledge
0:47:05 > 0:47:08that there can be a sexual element, and...
0:47:08 > 0:47:12one sees the spate of pornographic magazines you can buy in Soho,
0:47:12 > 0:47:14they make this quite explicit.
0:47:14 > 0:47:18And the fact that you can make a lot of money selling these magazines,
0:47:18 > 0:47:23and a lot of them are to do with beating in a school context.
0:47:23 > 0:47:26If you look at these magazines, all these bare buttocks,
0:47:26 > 0:47:30and of people generally enjoying themselves, SUPPOSED to be.
0:47:30 > 0:47:36Now, all we are saying here is that there is a sadomasochistic element
0:47:36 > 0:47:37running throughout society
0:47:37 > 0:47:40and if you want to develop that sadomasochistic element,
0:47:40 > 0:47:43the best way of doing it is by beating children.
0:47:43 > 0:47:45Which was one that the...
0:47:45 > 0:47:51The adherents of beating hated it whenever we made that argument.
0:47:52 > 0:47:54The idea that punishing children
0:47:54 > 0:47:57could affect their sexual instincts was nothing new.
0:47:57 > 0:48:02Particularly influential were the ideas of a 19th-century psychiatrist working in Austria,
0:48:02 > 0:48:06who had written a best-selling book about sexual behaviour.
0:48:06 > 0:48:11Richard von Krafft-Ebing was an Austrian psychiatrist
0:48:11 > 0:48:12and in the 1880s,
0:48:12 > 0:48:16he started to write a book called Psychopathia Sexualis,
0:48:16 > 0:48:20because he had become interested in the subject
0:48:20 > 0:48:24of what were then known as "sexual perversions".
0:48:24 > 0:48:28There are obviously reasons why people are beginning
0:48:28 > 0:48:33to start theorising why people have these sexual interests
0:48:33 > 0:48:38which don't seem to have anything to do with marriage and reproduction
0:48:38 > 0:48:40and kind of normal heterosexuality.
0:48:40 > 0:48:47And he creates the term "sadism" based on the name of the Marquis de Sade,
0:48:47 > 0:48:50whose writings were, of course, well-known by that time.
0:48:50 > 0:48:56And "masochism", which is based on the Austrian writer Leopold von Sacher-Masoch,
0:48:56 > 0:49:00who had written the famous Venus In Furs,
0:49:00 > 0:49:02which is a novel about a man
0:49:02 > 0:49:07who becomes a sex slave of a woman in furs with a whip.
0:49:07 > 0:49:09# Shiny, shiny
0:49:09 > 0:49:14# Shiny boots of leather
0:49:14 > 0:49:18# Whiplash girl-child in the dark... #
0:49:20 > 0:49:26Sadomasochistic practices existed well, well before the invention of the term.
0:49:26 > 0:49:28So, you know, you get pornography, for example,
0:49:28 > 0:49:35of the 18th century in England is very, very sadomasochistic.
0:49:35 > 0:49:40Krafft-Ebing collected not only tales of sadomasochistic fantasies, but also images.
0:49:40 > 0:49:46This is... You've got a man who's on all fours.
0:49:46 > 0:49:51I guess it's what they would call "pony play", where he's being a horse for her.
0:49:51 > 0:49:58There is a long, long history of the idea that some people get off on flagellation.
0:49:58 > 0:50:03One of the Restoration comedies, there's a character who goes to a prostitute
0:50:03 > 0:50:08who is essentially a dominatrix to get his kind of erotic flogging,
0:50:08 > 0:50:14and she kind of says, "Well, how did you get to have this rather peculiar taste?"
0:50:14 > 0:50:17And he says, "Oh, I learnt it at Westminster School."
0:50:20 > 0:50:24So that connection between corporal punishment in the school context
0:50:24 > 0:50:30and the later kind of fetish was established, clearly, quite early on.
0:50:32 > 0:50:37But the theories of the late-19th century added another dimension to all this
0:50:37 > 0:50:38and were quickly taken up
0:50:38 > 0:50:41by the early campaigners against corporal punishment.
0:50:41 > 0:50:44There's this argument that you were getting pleasure
0:50:44 > 0:50:49from cruelty, but of course, you may not be aware of it consciously.
0:50:49 > 0:50:53This makes people very, very uneasy, because there is the notion also
0:50:53 > 0:50:56that sexuality is not something necessarily innate.
0:50:56 > 0:51:03That sexuality can change, it can be confused, it can be perverted by outside forces,
0:51:03 > 0:51:10and corporal punishment is one of the ways that you can actually pervert a child's sexuality.
0:51:10 > 0:51:15Ideas about the effect of corporal punishment on psychological make-up
0:51:15 > 0:51:18may have been part of some of the earliest abolitionists' campaigns,
0:51:18 > 0:51:24but it took until the late-20th century for such ideas to really take hold.
0:51:24 > 0:51:27One very important reason why corporal punishment went out
0:51:27 > 0:51:31of fashion was the link that's increasingly being made
0:51:31 > 0:51:35between physical pain and psychological pain.
0:51:35 > 0:51:38And increasingly, those two things are tied together.
0:51:38 > 0:51:42So in other words, the infliction of physical pain
0:51:42 > 0:51:49is not only bad in and of itself, but it is also bad because it creates psychological pain.
0:51:49 > 0:51:53And that notion of the psychological self, the inner self,
0:51:53 > 0:51:58that can be harmed by these external things impacting, happening to it,
0:51:58 > 0:52:01is a very, very modern phenomenon.
0:52:02 > 0:52:06By the late '70s, there were well-publicised cases of children
0:52:06 > 0:52:10refusing punishment, often with intimations of psychological harm.
0:52:13 > 0:52:17I've been away from school for four weeks nearly, nearly four weeks.
0:52:17 > 0:52:19I was meant to go to a detention,
0:52:19 > 0:52:24but I kept on avoiding it because I knew that I'd already done it.
0:52:24 > 0:52:28But they wouldn't have that, so they was going to give me the cane.
0:52:28 > 0:52:33So I told them "no". Because every time I do have it, I get ill,
0:52:33 > 0:52:36and I end up taking tablets and that.
0:52:36 > 0:52:40The pills I'm taking are Valium to calm me down because of my nerves.
0:52:40 > 0:52:43I kept getting nerve rashes, then I'm hardly eating at all.
0:52:43 > 0:52:45I've lost two stone since June.
0:52:45 > 0:52:48I always know when Susan's been caned,
0:52:48 > 0:52:50when she comes home from school,
0:52:50 > 0:52:53because she's in a very distressed condition.
0:52:53 > 0:52:56A medical view of pain had come to dominate,
0:52:56 > 0:52:59something to be cured and alleviated.
0:52:59 > 0:53:04The notion that a little pain might help form the character seemed outdated.
0:53:04 > 0:53:08Once the underpinning of corporal punishment,
0:53:08 > 0:53:12with the idea that it does good to the person who suffers,
0:53:12 > 0:53:15passes away, it is very hard
0:53:15 > 0:53:20to find a clear rationale for beating children in schools.
0:53:20 > 0:53:25It begins to look simply like sadistry when one person beats another.
0:53:27 > 0:53:30Corporal punishment would find finally be brought
0:53:30 > 0:53:34to an end in British state schools by a case that emerged in Scotland.
0:53:34 > 0:53:38In Edinburgh a few years ago, they tried to keep a record
0:53:38 > 0:53:41of how many times the strap was used in a term.
0:53:41 > 0:53:44They got to 10,000, and after that, they stopped counting.
0:53:44 > 0:53:50With the staggering frequency of beating in Scottish schools, unjust excesses inevitably occur.
0:53:50 > 0:53:55Mass beltings of whole classrooms, a seven-year-old strapped for opening a door for a teacher,
0:53:55 > 0:53:58something only monitors were supposed to do.
0:53:58 > 0:54:02When two boys refused to be beaten and were suspended from school,
0:54:02 > 0:54:07their parents took their case to the European Court Of Human Rights.
0:54:07 > 0:54:10The judges at Strasbourg ruled that to allow any form
0:54:10 > 0:54:14of physical punishment against the wishes of the parents
0:54:14 > 0:54:15was a violation of human rights.
0:54:15 > 0:54:20But the result wasn't an immediate ban on corporal punishment in Britain.
0:54:20 > 0:54:23The Government's decided corporal punishment
0:54:23 > 0:54:25should continue in English and Welsh schools,
0:54:25 > 0:54:28but new laws will be passed to enable parents
0:54:28 > 0:54:30to insist that their children aren't beaten.
0:54:30 > 0:54:36But the Government's opponents say the new laws will create confusion and injustice in the classroom.
0:54:38 > 0:54:41There was indeed confusion.
0:54:41 > 0:54:46So much so that in 1986, a bill to completely abolish corporal punishment
0:54:46 > 0:54:49went to the House Of Commons.
0:54:49 > 0:54:52The Government doesn't really know what to do about it.
0:54:52 > 0:54:56This is a Conservative government of the 1980s, Margaret Thatcher is prime minister.
0:54:56 > 0:55:01In the past, she has declared herself in favour of judicial flogging,
0:55:01 > 0:55:03she's in favour of hanging,
0:55:03 > 0:55:05she's not going to lead a government
0:55:05 > 0:55:09that's going to abolish corporal punishment in schools
0:55:09 > 0:55:10if she can help it.
0:55:10 > 0:55:14It was a free vote and it could not have been closer.
0:55:14 > 0:55:19230 MPs voted to retain corporal punishment in state schools,
0:55:19 > 0:55:22the number voting for a ban was 231.
0:55:22 > 0:55:26The change in the law was partly thanks to the Royal Family.
0:55:26 > 0:55:31More or less everything is now set for the marriage of Prince Andrew and Sarah Ferguson.
0:55:31 > 0:55:33A short time ago, Miss Ferguson...
0:55:33 > 0:55:36There was a Royal wedding taking place the next day
0:55:36 > 0:55:40between Prince Andrew and Sarah Ferguson, and a number of MPs,
0:55:40 > 0:55:47I believe about a dozen MPs, were actually held up because of the crowds queuing to get a good place,
0:55:47 > 0:55:52and about 12 Tories claimed that they were held up by the crowds and they couldn't get there.
0:55:52 > 0:55:55And also, even Mrs Thatcher wasn't able to vote against abolition,
0:55:55 > 0:55:58because she was entertaining Ronald Reagan's wife.
0:56:03 > 0:56:08Corporal punishment was only outlawed in independent schools in 1999.
0:56:11 > 0:56:15And today, the debate goes on over smacking in the home.
0:56:15 > 0:56:19The only arena in Britain in which corporal punishment survives.
0:56:20 > 0:56:24Over the past 200 years, there have been many arguments
0:56:24 > 0:56:29in favour of corporal punishment, but in Britain, these ideas have slowly been pushed aside.
0:56:29 > 0:56:35Certainly, the side that says you should not hit have won the day, there's no question about that.
0:56:35 > 0:56:36They have definitely won.
0:56:36 > 0:56:43The fate of a 2005 legal challenge by religious schools confirmed the prevailing attitude.
0:56:43 > 0:56:48The schools argued corporal punishment was an expression of religious belief,
0:56:48 > 0:56:51but the House Of Lords ruled that the right to hold the belief
0:56:51 > 0:56:54does not confer the right to act on that belief.
0:56:54 > 0:56:58Legislators have reacted to the views of psychologists and campaigners
0:56:58 > 0:57:03and responded to the changing notions of childhood, crime and human rights.
0:57:03 > 0:57:05But have WE really changed?
0:57:05 > 0:57:11I think we are a more squeamish, understanding, watchful, better-informed society
0:57:11 > 0:57:16and we don't have alibis like religion, for example,
0:57:16 > 0:57:19to justify the violence upon other people's bodies.
0:57:19 > 0:57:22But we're still the old Adam.
0:57:22 > 0:57:30We're still the basic primaly curious, violent people, I think, that our ancestors were.
0:57:30 > 0:57:33For many people in Britain and throughout the world,
0:57:33 > 0:57:38the arguments that once justified corporal punishment are still valid.
0:57:38 > 0:57:40So could it return?
0:57:40 > 0:57:44It would be quite impossible for corporal punishment and school beatings to come back,
0:57:44 > 0:57:48partly because of the European Convention Of Human Rights,
0:57:48 > 0:57:53which is now enshrined in British, or English, Welsh and Scottish law.
0:57:53 > 0:57:57I can not imagine a return to corporal punishment
0:57:57 > 0:58:03in our society, because it has been increasingly de-legitimised.
0:58:03 > 0:58:08Now, that said, I have to say, I was sort of hesitant because,
0:58:08 > 0:58:11of course, I think most people would have said that about torture.
0:58:11 > 0:58:18Most of us would have said, not that long ago, a few years ago, that it was impossible to consider
0:58:18 > 0:58:22that torture would come back in the Western world.
0:58:22 > 0:58:27So as an historian, I think we never want to say never.
0:58:27 > 0:58:32Human Rights laws may make this behaviour effectively unlawful today,
0:58:32 > 0:58:38but laws change, there may be more to come in the history of corporal punishment.
0:58:40 > 0:58:43To challenge your views and learn more about the justice system,
0:58:43 > 0:58:47go to...
0:58:47 > 0:58:51And follow the links to The Open University.
0:58:57 > 0:59:00Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd
0:59:00 > 0:59:03E-mail subtitling@bbc.co.uk