Will Britain Ever Have a Black Prime Minister?

Download Subtitles

Transcript

0:00:04 > 0:00:07We've had 54 British prime ministers to date,

0:00:07 > 0:00:10going back almost three centuries.

0:00:11 > 0:00:14And all of those prime ministers have something in common.

0:00:16 > 0:00:18They are all white.

0:00:21 > 0:00:24I'm David Harewood, a British TV and film actor,

0:00:24 > 0:00:26and I intend to find out why.

0:00:28 > 0:00:33And to ask just how socially mobile is Britain today?

0:00:35 > 0:00:38Could anyone, despite their background

0:00:38 > 0:00:41or the colour of their skin, become leader of our country?

0:00:43 > 0:00:45What if you were not born into privilege?

0:00:47 > 0:00:50What if you were black, state educated,

0:00:50 > 0:00:52and from a low-income household?

0:00:55 > 0:00:57To work this out, we'll be carrying out

0:00:57 > 0:01:00a comprehensive analysis of the data,

0:01:00 > 0:01:05allowing us to make a unique probability calculation.

0:01:05 > 0:01:07The odds from the start are stacked against them.

0:01:07 > 0:01:09- Yeah, right from the start, literally.- Yeah.

0:01:11 > 0:01:14'I'll find out just how difficult it would be

0:01:14 > 0:01:17'for a black person to rise up through the British system,

0:01:17 > 0:01:20'break into a top profession...'

0:01:22 > 0:01:23It's a sea of white faces.

0:01:25 > 0:01:30'..and, ultimately, make it to the country's very top job.'

0:01:33 > 0:01:37What are the chances of Britain having a black prime minister?

0:01:53 > 0:01:57Our journey to the very top of the British system starts,

0:01:57 > 0:01:59as it did for me,

0:01:59 > 0:02:01here in this Birmingham hospital.

0:02:13 > 0:02:17BABY CRIES

0:02:18 > 0:02:21Right, come on.

0:02:21 > 0:02:24We've just had word that there's a brand-new arrival,

0:02:24 > 0:02:26it's just inside this room,

0:02:26 > 0:02:28so I'm going to go and speak to the new couple

0:02:28 > 0:02:31and this brand-new child. Come on.

0:02:36 > 0:02:39- Hello. How you? I'm David.- Nice to meet you.

0:02:39 > 0:02:41- What's your name?- Abel.- Abel. And you are?

0:02:41 > 0:02:44- Janette.- Janette.- Janette? - Who's this one?- Robel.

0:02:44 > 0:02:47Robel, look at him!

0:02:47 > 0:02:50Beautiful! Beautiful!

0:02:54 > 0:02:58Abel and Janette are immigrants from Eritrea, east Africa,

0:02:58 > 0:03:00who came to the UK three years ago.

0:03:02 > 0:03:04What do you hope that he will achieve here in England?

0:03:04 > 0:03:07What kind of job would you like him to do?

0:03:08 > 0:03:10- Doctor.- Yeah.

0:03:10 > 0:03:13Or movie actor, I don't know.

0:03:13 > 0:03:16Movie actor? Or Prime Minister, that's good ambitions.

0:03:16 > 0:03:19He looks like he's going to be a movie star to me, actually.

0:03:21 > 0:03:23Definitely. He's got that look.

0:03:24 > 0:03:25HE CHUCKLES

0:03:25 > 0:03:28BABY CRIES Do you mind if I pick him up?

0:03:37 > 0:03:39Most parents believe that if your child works hard enough

0:03:39 > 0:03:41and stays out of trouble,

0:03:41 > 0:03:44they'll have a fair chance of success in this country.

0:03:44 > 0:03:46Whether Robel here will have an equal chance

0:03:46 > 0:03:49as his white counterparts to succeed in Britain

0:03:49 > 0:03:51is really what this programme's all about.

0:03:51 > 0:03:55Could he actually dare to be a prime minister of this country?

0:03:56 > 0:03:57What do you think?

0:04:10 > 0:04:14The place has changed so much since I've been here.

0:04:20 > 0:04:22'I was brought up here in Birmingham

0:04:22 > 0:04:26'in a place called Small Heath in the '70s.'

0:04:28 > 0:04:30I sort of grew up in a bit of a bubble, I suppose, here.

0:04:30 > 0:04:32I didn't really venture out very much.

0:04:32 > 0:04:35Didn't really venture out very far, we didn't really have much money,

0:04:35 > 0:04:37so it was a case of make your own fun,

0:04:37 > 0:04:39make your own entertainment.

0:04:40 > 0:04:42Thanks, pal.

0:04:54 > 0:04:55Here it is.

0:05:00 > 0:05:03So this is really the house that I, kind of, grew up in, really.

0:05:06 > 0:05:08I had two brothers and a sister.

0:05:08 > 0:05:10We were very much a working-class family.

0:05:10 > 0:05:13This was very much a working-class area.

0:05:13 > 0:05:17My dad was a lorry driver and my mother worked as well.

0:05:17 > 0:05:19I think my father came here in '58

0:05:19 > 0:05:22and my mother, I think, came here in '62.

0:05:22 > 0:05:26There were lots of adverts across the Caribbean

0:05:26 > 0:05:29saying come to England, the streets are paved with gold.

0:05:31 > 0:05:33The reason why most of the first-generation

0:05:33 > 0:05:35West Indian migrants came here

0:05:35 > 0:05:39was to get better lives, to improve their family, make some money,

0:05:39 > 0:05:40get good jobs.

0:05:42 > 0:05:46When the immigrants arrived, many found themselves positioned

0:05:46 > 0:05:48on the bottom rung of the social ladder,

0:05:48 > 0:05:51occupying mostly working-class jobs.

0:05:54 > 0:05:56I was one of the lucky ones.

0:05:56 > 0:05:58I got a break getting into drama school,

0:05:58 > 0:06:02and then becoming a professional actor, now working in Hollywood.

0:06:05 > 0:06:07But what are the prospects like for today's generation?

0:06:09 > 0:06:13If a young black kid was born here today, and grew up here today,

0:06:13 > 0:06:17what would his chances be of success in modern Britain?

0:06:18 > 0:06:21To calculate what the chance actually are

0:06:21 > 0:06:24of Britain having a black prime minister,

0:06:24 > 0:06:26'we've asked statistician Dr Faiza Shaheen

0:06:26 > 0:06:29'from the Centre for Labour and Social Studies

0:06:29 > 0:06:32'to examine the data and come up with an estimate

0:06:32 > 0:06:35'for the probability of exactly that happening.

0:06:36 > 0:06:39'It's always difficult to predict the future,

0:06:39 > 0:06:42'but she'll be feeding in data from a wide range of sources.

0:06:42 > 0:06:46'She'll also be looking at the particular hurdles black people face

0:06:46 > 0:06:49'if they want to make it to the top.'

0:06:51 > 0:06:55OK, David, so let's start by looking at the economic circumstances

0:06:55 > 0:06:57that black children are growing up in in Britain today.

0:06:57 > 0:07:01The last survey of the mass population in the UK

0:07:01 > 0:07:03was a census in 2011.

0:07:05 > 0:07:09And that found that 40% of black people live in social housing.

0:07:10 > 0:07:12That's one indicator of poverty.

0:07:14 > 0:07:16More recent government statistics

0:07:16 > 0:07:19have found that as many as 45% of all black children,

0:07:19 > 0:07:22so African and black Caribbean, are growing up in poverty.

0:07:24 > 0:07:27That compares to 25% of white children.

0:07:29 > 0:07:31Wow!

0:07:31 > 0:07:35Nearly half of the black children in the country are growing up poor.

0:07:35 > 0:07:38- Yes.- That's...

0:07:38 > 0:07:43- Shocking.- The odds from the start are stacked against them.- Yeah.

0:07:43 > 0:07:45- Right from the start, literally. - Yeah, yeah.

0:07:45 > 0:07:48OK, so we know that black children are twice as likely

0:07:48 > 0:07:50to be growing up poor than white children.

0:07:50 > 0:07:53And on the flipside, white children are four times more likely

0:07:53 > 0:07:55to live in wealthy households than black children.

0:07:57 > 0:07:59And that disparity has huge consequences,

0:07:59 > 0:08:02because we know wealthy children

0:08:02 > 0:08:04overtake poorer children

0:08:04 > 0:08:05in their development

0:08:05 > 0:08:06very early on in life.

0:08:06 > 0:08:08So by the time they start school,

0:08:08 > 0:08:11the vocabulary of the poorest kids

0:08:11 > 0:08:13lags more than a year behind

0:08:13 > 0:08:16that of a wealthy child.

0:08:16 > 0:08:20That's why poverty is the biggest determining factor in anyone's life.

0:08:20 > 0:08:23Those children growing up in poor households

0:08:23 > 0:08:27- are at a disadvantage from day one. - Which obviously has a huge impact,

0:08:27 > 0:08:29because it means they're starting education

0:08:29 > 0:08:35- already a huge step behind their white counterparts, really.- Yep.

0:08:39 > 0:08:42Obviously, there are large numbers of poor white children, too,

0:08:42 > 0:08:45who are just as disadvantaged, if not more so.

0:08:46 > 0:08:49But for black kids, there are other significant factors

0:08:49 > 0:08:51that can impact on their early development.

0:08:58 > 0:09:01Not far from when I grew up, in nearby Edgbaston,

0:09:01 > 0:09:03there's a nursery which specialises

0:09:03 > 0:09:05in helping black children, in particular,

0:09:05 > 0:09:09take their first few tentative steps in life.

0:09:13 > 0:09:14- Hello!- How are you doing?

0:09:14 > 0:09:16Good, thank you, how are you?

0:09:16 > 0:09:18- Very well, very well. - Lovely. Nice to meet you.

0:09:18 > 0:09:21- Thank you for having me.- Welcome to Edgbaston Park Day Nursery.

0:09:21 > 0:09:24'Liz Kerr is the nursery manager.'

0:09:28 > 0:09:32We tend to make sure that we're catering for the specific needs

0:09:32 > 0:09:35of the black African-Caribbean community.

0:09:35 > 0:09:37A lot of the things that we do here

0:09:37 > 0:09:39really go towards pushing expectation levels up.

0:09:39 > 0:09:41A focus, really, on behaviour

0:09:41 > 0:09:43and just getting the children really school ready

0:09:43 > 0:09:46so the school readiness is a big thing here.

0:09:46 > 0:09:49- Right.- (They're having story time.

0:09:49 > 0:09:52- (Story time?)- Sorry, preschool.

0:09:52 > 0:09:53I've got a visitor.

0:09:53 > 0:09:57- Preschool, say hello to David. - CHILDREN:- Hello, David.

0:09:57 > 0:09:59Beautiful! These are the preschool.

0:09:59 > 0:10:02Hold on, two seconds, I'm just speaking, OK?

0:10:02 > 0:10:04I'll talk to you afterwards.

0:10:04 > 0:10:06So they've had their dinner.

0:10:06 > 0:10:08Because they're getting school ready, they don't sleep.

0:10:10 > 0:10:14'Even at this tender age, Liz says that some of these black children

0:10:14 > 0:10:16'have been singled out in mainstream nurseries

0:10:16 > 0:10:20'and labelled as being problematic and that's why they've come to her.'

0:10:23 > 0:10:26Describe some of the problems that black parents have had elsewhere

0:10:26 > 0:10:28that bring them to your nursery.

0:10:28 > 0:10:30We have four or five children

0:10:30 > 0:10:32who have come from nurseries, mainstream nurseries,

0:10:32 > 0:10:35where parents have told me that the demographic of the nursery

0:10:35 > 0:10:36is predominantly white

0:10:36 > 0:10:39and there have been labels around their particular children

0:10:39 > 0:10:42and I think it's more a lack of understanding in the mainstream

0:10:42 > 0:10:44about how to manage certain behaviours

0:10:44 > 0:10:47if it's not something that they, perhaps, have seen before.

0:10:47 > 0:10:49When I say behaviour,

0:10:49 > 0:10:51really what I am talking about is just personality.

0:10:51 > 0:10:53Put your toys down, please.

0:10:53 > 0:10:58So, a child with lots of energy in a predominantly white setting

0:10:58 > 0:11:00might just come across as a child that's problematic.

0:11:00 > 0:11:04Problematic, naughty, disruptive. Doesn't want to engage in learning.

0:11:04 > 0:11:06CHILD SHOUTS

0:11:06 > 0:11:09I'm aware that, you know, black children,

0:11:09 > 0:11:12black boys, in particular, are very energetic.

0:11:12 > 0:11:16It's important that we don't label those boys who are black

0:11:16 > 0:11:19as problematic or as having behavioural issues

0:11:19 > 0:11:22and we just look at them as children.

0:11:22 > 0:11:23It's all right, don't cry.

0:11:23 > 0:11:26Knowing that these are just boys who have got a lot of energy,

0:11:26 > 0:11:30a lot of personality and we just engage with them appropriately.

0:11:30 > 0:11:33Cos it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, in a sense.

0:11:33 > 0:11:34If you are always told you are this way

0:11:34 > 0:11:37and you're always told you are a problem and you're naughty,

0:11:37 > 0:11:40you go through life just believing that that is who you are.

0:11:40 > 0:11:42At a certain point, it's going to become where you're just like,

0:11:42 > 0:11:45"You know what? I'm just going to be that person then."

0:11:47 > 0:11:48Yeah, go have a look over that side.

0:11:48 > 0:11:50There's been very little research

0:11:50 > 0:11:53into possible labelling of black children at nurseries.

0:11:53 > 0:11:57However, some parents who have children here believe it's an issue.

0:11:59 > 0:12:02Tizai Shaw is a four-year-old boy who his mum says was treated

0:12:02 > 0:12:06as being a problematic child by his previous nursery.

0:12:09 > 0:12:11Rachel, what have been your experiences

0:12:11 > 0:12:14in the mainstream predominantly white nurseries?

0:12:14 > 0:12:15It was OK to start with.

0:12:15 > 0:12:17No problems, great nursery.

0:12:17 > 0:12:19I thought it was good, recommended it.

0:12:19 > 0:12:23He got to about the age of two, he started biting, you know,

0:12:23 > 0:12:25just pushing the boundaries.

0:12:25 > 0:12:27Playing up, kicking, hitting.

0:12:27 > 0:12:31And I used to say to them, "Can't you put him on a time-out,

0:12:31 > 0:12:34"can't you just, you know, talk to him

0:12:34 > 0:12:37"and just know that you can't do that?

0:12:37 > 0:12:39No, thank you. Don't do that.

0:12:39 > 0:12:41They were like, "We've got this new policy

0:12:41 > 0:12:43"where we can't put him on a time-out.

0:12:43 > 0:12:45And I was like, "But that's what I do at home."

0:12:45 > 0:12:47So they'd phoned me, "Tizai's being naughty.

0:12:47 > 0:12:48"Tizai's not being good.

0:12:48 > 0:12:50"He's doing this, he's doing that."

0:12:50 > 0:12:54Not anything else, it was always Tizai this, Tizai that,

0:12:54 > 0:12:58Tizai... And it was just so awful for me it was so stressful

0:12:58 > 0:13:01and I just used to cry cos I didn't know what else to do.

0:13:03 > 0:13:08Rachel says that eventually Tizai was permanently excluded...

0:13:08 > 0:13:09at just three years old.

0:13:11 > 0:13:14Was his behaviour quite boisterous at home, too?

0:13:14 > 0:13:15He's a boisterous child.

0:13:15 > 0:13:17That's just the way he is. He plays with his dad all the time.

0:13:17 > 0:13:19Him and his brother, they are boisterous children.

0:13:19 > 0:13:22Wait, wait, Tizai, please.

0:13:22 > 0:13:26But he wasn't behaving how he was at nursery at home

0:13:26 > 0:13:28because, obviously, he has boundaries.

0:13:28 > 0:13:31Nursery didn't give him those kind of boundaries.

0:13:31 > 0:13:34Some people take it as he's being naughty, he's being out of hand,

0:13:34 > 0:13:36but that's just him being playful.

0:13:41 > 0:13:43Since he's been coming to Edgbaston Day Nursery,

0:13:43 > 0:13:47Tizai's behaviour has been transformed.

0:13:48 > 0:13:50Hi!

0:13:50 > 0:13:53Can I have a hug? Ohhhhh!

0:13:53 > 0:13:55Have you been a good boy?

0:13:58 > 0:14:03You know, I'm really inspired by what I've seen here today,

0:14:03 > 0:14:04particularly talking to Liz.

0:14:04 > 0:14:07The kids that come here seem to flourish in her school

0:14:07 > 0:14:10and that's wonderful.

0:14:10 > 0:14:13What worries me, though, when you think about it,

0:14:13 > 0:14:16all the Tizais that are out there in Britain

0:14:16 > 0:14:21not getting this tailored care, not getting this cultural understanding.

0:14:21 > 0:14:23What kind of start in life are they getting?

0:14:23 > 0:14:25They are being constantly told that they are bad,

0:14:25 > 0:14:28constantly told that their behaviour is inappropriate,

0:14:28 > 0:14:29constantly told they're a problem.

0:14:29 > 0:14:33What kind of start in life are we giving those children?

0:14:44 > 0:14:48If a black person is going to make it to become prime minister

0:14:48 > 0:14:50it's quite likely they will have come

0:14:50 > 0:14:54from a disadvantaged inner-city area like this -

0:14:54 > 0:14:58South London's Elephant and Castle.

0:14:58 > 0:15:00BELL RINGS

0:15:08 > 0:15:11And that presents a challenge to schools like Globe Academy.

0:15:13 > 0:15:14Morning, gentlemen. How are you doing?

0:15:14 > 0:15:17Headmaster Matt Jones is working hard

0:15:17 > 0:15:20to give his many black and ethnic minority pupils

0:15:20 > 0:15:21a fighting chance.

0:15:22 > 0:15:24He's just said something

0:15:24 > 0:15:26and I've heard it from there. Go and sit down.

0:15:27 > 0:15:29Hurry up!

0:15:31 > 0:15:33What are the particular problems

0:15:33 > 0:15:37that face young black kids at this age at school?

0:15:37 > 0:15:40Well, Ark Globe Academy is based in South London,

0:15:40 > 0:15:42Elephant And Castle, which is, you know,

0:15:42 > 0:15:45in the highest 20% for levels of deprivation.

0:15:45 > 0:15:46So you've got your challenges there

0:15:46 > 0:15:49and all the social and economic issues around that.

0:15:49 > 0:15:51We are a very diverse community,

0:15:51 > 0:15:5590% of our community is from black or minority ethnic groups,

0:15:55 > 0:15:59of which 50%-ish are black Caribbean or black African.

0:15:59 > 0:16:02I think some of the issues revolve around aspiration

0:16:02 > 0:16:05and having real positive role models in their community

0:16:05 > 0:16:08to aspire to and to be like.

0:16:08 > 0:16:10I think the other issue is, obviously,

0:16:10 > 0:16:12some low levels of attainment.

0:16:12 > 0:16:15Dual is two, right, like two things coming together.

0:16:15 > 0:16:19School attainment levels, or exam results,

0:16:19 > 0:16:23are obviously a key factor in deciding young people's futures.

0:16:23 > 0:16:25Brainstorming, mind mapping...

0:16:27 > 0:16:29Let's take a look at how well black kids are doing

0:16:29 > 0:16:31throughout their schooling.

0:16:32 > 0:16:35Our statistician Faiza has been looking at pupil test results.

0:16:36 > 0:16:39I've been looking at pupil assessment data

0:16:39 > 0:16:41and breaking it down by ethnicity.

0:16:41 > 0:16:44In this graph, you can see pupil assessment scores

0:16:44 > 0:16:47for those aged seven to 16 years old.

0:16:47 > 0:16:49White people start at this midpoint

0:16:49 > 0:16:52and they maintain that level up to the age of 14.

0:16:56 > 0:17:00Black African and black Caribbean students start at a lower point

0:17:00 > 0:17:03and whilst black Africans maintain their scores,

0:17:03 > 0:17:06black Caribbean performance declines steeply.

0:17:06 > 0:17:08My word, look at that!

0:17:08 > 0:17:10That's pretty stark, isn't it?

0:17:10 > 0:17:12- Yep.- I mean, that's an incredible decline.

0:17:12 > 0:17:14- Yeah.- You can't argue with it.

0:17:14 > 0:17:16But that's not the end of the story.

0:17:16 > 0:17:21Between the ages of 14 and 16, black pupils start doing a lot better.

0:17:21 > 0:17:23Both black Caribbean and black African pupils

0:17:23 > 0:17:26see a massive increase in their scores. In fact,

0:17:26 > 0:17:28by the time they come to do GCSEs,

0:17:28 > 0:17:33black African pupils surpass white pupils at age 16.

0:17:33 > 0:17:35That's extraordinary.

0:17:36 > 0:17:38I don't quite get... I can't quite get my head around that.

0:17:38 > 0:17:41Why are they suddenly performing better?

0:17:41 > 0:17:43What's going on there, then?

0:17:44 > 0:17:46I think it's a puzzle, to be honest.

0:17:51 > 0:17:54Research by Professor Simon Burgess from the University of Bristol

0:17:54 > 0:17:56might provide an answer.

0:17:56 > 0:18:00He has uncovered evidence of a shocking explanation

0:18:00 > 0:18:02of the sharp rise in attainment levels

0:18:02 > 0:18:05when black children get to their GCSEs.

0:18:05 > 0:18:08He believes it is linked to the fact

0:18:08 > 0:18:11that those exams are marked by independent examiners.

0:18:13 > 0:18:16When we take GCSEs, of course,

0:18:16 > 0:18:18they are exams that are marked outside of the school.

0:18:18 > 0:18:20They are not marked by your teacher.

0:18:20 > 0:18:23So that's your big chance to show how well you can really do

0:18:23 > 0:18:26in a, kind of, anonymised context.

0:18:27 > 0:18:32So we looked at some data comparing the test scores of pupils in England

0:18:32 > 0:18:34against their teacher assessment.

0:18:34 > 0:18:36For some ethnic groups, we found that the teachers

0:18:36 > 0:18:39systematically underestimated their performance,

0:18:39 > 0:18:43relative to how they did in these remotely marked tests.

0:18:43 > 0:18:47So that suggests to us that some stereotyping is going on -

0:18:47 > 0:18:49that teachers have a view,

0:18:49 > 0:18:52form a view about the likely capabilities of students

0:18:52 > 0:18:56from outside knowledge and that informs the expectations they have

0:18:56 > 0:18:59of students in the classroom

0:18:59 > 0:19:02and the stereotyped view might be that black students

0:19:02 > 0:19:05are not very good in school, and so they tend to under-assess them

0:19:05 > 0:19:08and have lower expectations for their attainment and their progress

0:19:08 > 0:19:10than perhaps they should

0:19:10 > 0:19:14and these stereotypes will interact with the child's motivation

0:19:14 > 0:19:18and therefore they are going to try less hard at school.

0:19:20 > 0:19:22If Professor Burgess is right,

0:19:22 > 0:19:24then there's almost an in-built prejudice

0:19:24 > 0:19:26against black kids within the system,

0:19:26 > 0:19:29where they are being labelled and stereotyped negatively.

0:19:34 > 0:19:36Here at Globe Academy, they are working hard

0:19:36 > 0:19:39to break those stereotypes and to give their pupils

0:19:39 > 0:19:43the tools necessary to succeed at university and in the workplace.

0:19:43 > 0:19:48Perhaps Globe Academy might produce a prime minister one day.

0:19:48 > 0:19:50So, you've got business class here.

0:19:50 > 0:19:52- Let's go and have a look.- OK.

0:19:54 > 0:19:57- Good morning, guys. How are we doing?- Morning.

0:19:58 > 0:20:00Does anybody recognise this guy?

0:20:00 > 0:20:03- Yeah.- Marvellous, marvellous!

0:20:03 > 0:20:05This is, obviously, David Harewood, Hollywood actor

0:20:05 > 0:20:07and he is working with the BBC,

0:20:07 > 0:20:10doing a documentary on social mobility.

0:20:10 > 0:20:11Miss, what are we doing today?

0:20:11 > 0:20:13We are looking at interview practice

0:20:13 > 0:20:16and how can we really prepare to go in confidently to these interviews

0:20:16 > 0:20:21that they are going to carry out after school, to go into workplaces.

0:20:21 > 0:20:23Would you like to have a go?

0:20:23 > 0:20:25Love to. Am I interviewing or being interviewed?

0:20:25 > 0:20:28- You can be the interviewer. - OK, fine.

0:20:28 > 0:20:31We'll swap the interview. Can we have Michael George, please?

0:20:31 > 0:20:34- Can I be Mr Nasty?- Yes, please do.

0:20:34 > 0:20:36- Nice to meet you, sir. - Hello, come in. Sit down.

0:20:36 > 0:20:41'Where they are now is 90% black minority ethnic group.'

0:20:41 > 0:20:43What we are preparing them for is an environment

0:20:43 > 0:20:45that is totally different to that -

0:20:45 > 0:20:47socially, culturally, and in terms of ethnicity.

0:20:47 > 0:20:49Tell me about a time in which you were required

0:20:49 > 0:20:52to produce something to a very, very high standard

0:20:52 > 0:20:54and was there a fixed period to this time?

0:20:54 > 0:20:56That's a very good question, first of all.

0:20:56 > 0:20:59'If you're going to access these type of careers

0:20:59 > 0:21:02'and these type of institutions, you have to perform in a certain way'

0:21:02 > 0:21:05and be able to relate to others from a different ethnic group

0:21:05 > 0:21:07and some people find that difficult.

0:21:07 > 0:21:11Describe a time when effective time management skills

0:21:11 > 0:21:12were key to success.

0:21:12 > 0:21:14OK. So that's a very good question, once again.

0:21:14 > 0:21:16- Erm...- Thank you. LAUGHTER

0:21:16 > 0:21:19I think that if I didn't put the time and effort...

0:21:19 > 0:21:20'Some people don't accept

0:21:20 > 0:21:24'that you have to adapt your behaviour based on context'

0:21:24 > 0:21:27and that can be a challenge for young black students

0:21:27 > 0:21:28growing up in south London.

0:21:28 > 0:21:31Yeah, I thought you were very, very confident.

0:21:31 > 0:21:34Be careful of the repetition of "That is a good question,"

0:21:34 > 0:21:37because then it does become just a tad insincere.

0:21:37 > 0:21:39- Thank you.- Thank you very much. Thank you.

0:21:46 > 0:21:49You know, what's become clear to me today

0:21:49 > 0:21:51is just how critical the school stage in life is

0:21:51 > 0:21:54if children from black or mixed ethnicity backgrounds

0:21:54 > 0:21:57are ever going to progress up the social ladder.

0:21:57 > 0:22:01What this school is doing is giving these kids a springboard

0:22:01 > 0:22:04onto, hopefully, brighter and better futures.

0:22:07 > 0:22:09But if any one of these black kids

0:22:09 > 0:22:11is going to make it to prime minister,

0:22:11 > 0:22:14the chances are they'll need to go to a top university.

0:22:14 > 0:22:17And, for that, they'll good A-level grades.

0:22:21 > 0:22:24So, what are the chances of black pupils getting the required grades?

0:22:28 > 0:22:31Faiza has been studying the A-level exam results data.

0:22:32 > 0:22:35OK, David. To get into a top university,

0:22:35 > 0:22:39you need to get three As or more at A level.

0:22:39 > 0:22:40I'm already out of the equation.

0:22:40 > 0:22:44I think I scraped two, I think. I can't remember.

0:22:47 > 0:22:49The chances of a black pupil getting three As

0:22:49 > 0:22:54- is just four in 100 or- 4%. What?

0:22:55 > 0:22:57The chances of a white pupil

0:22:57 > 0:23:00getting three As at A level is...

0:23:00 > 0:23:02Double the chance.

0:23:03 > 0:23:06But, for those who went to private schools,

0:23:06 > 0:23:09and, statistically speaking, they are mostly white,

0:23:09 > 0:23:12the chance increases dramatically

0:23:12 > 0:23:16to 28 in 100, or 28%.

0:23:16 > 0:23:21- Wow!- 28% of those that go to private school will get three As or more

0:23:21 > 0:23:23- at A level.- That's just stunning.

0:23:23 > 0:23:25I mean, that's...

0:23:27 > 0:23:31Those people who can afford to send their kids to private school,

0:23:31 > 0:23:33they are already a step ahead, anyway, aren't they?

0:23:33 > 0:23:36I'm not, kind of, angry or bashing the system,

0:23:36 > 0:23:39but these are just fact that speak for themselves.

0:23:39 > 0:23:44The system is almost designed to assist those

0:23:44 > 0:23:47who have an economic advantage.

0:23:47 > 0:23:51In fact, David, if you're a state educated black boy,

0:23:51 > 0:23:55you're more likely to be excluded from school than to get the three As

0:23:55 > 0:23:58that you need to get into a top university.

0:24:00 > 0:24:02That's...

0:24:02 > 0:24:03staggering, really.

0:24:03 > 0:24:09And that speaks to... expectation, discrimination,

0:24:09 > 0:24:11stereotypes, everything.

0:24:11 > 0:24:14You are more likely to be excluded than get three As.

0:24:14 > 0:24:17It's deeply troubling.

0:24:17 > 0:24:21So this is a huge hurdle on that way to being prime minister.

0:24:21 > 0:24:24This one knocks out a lot of black people.

0:24:24 > 0:24:27- There's very few that will jump that hurdle.- Right.

0:24:27 > 0:24:30You have to beat these huge odds.

0:24:30 > 0:24:31- Yeah.- Huge!- Huge odds.

0:24:39 > 0:24:43So getting into a top university is critical for any black person

0:24:43 > 0:24:45aiming to make it to make it to become prime minister.

0:24:50 > 0:24:52And there's one university in particular

0:24:52 > 0:24:56which outshines all the rest when it comes to producing PMs.

0:24:58 > 0:25:01Every prime minister who has won an election since 1937,

0:25:01 > 0:25:05if they went to university, it was Oxford,

0:25:05 > 0:25:07including our previous and current prime ministers,

0:25:07 > 0:25:09David Cameron and Theresa May.

0:25:16 > 0:25:19Today, it's Oxford University's open day

0:25:19 > 0:25:21and I'm meeting young hopeful Aisha,

0:25:21 > 0:25:24a pupil from a South London state school.

0:25:25 > 0:25:29- Hello.- How are you? - How are you?- I'm fine, thank you.

0:25:29 > 0:25:32- Nice to meet you, nice to meet you. - You, too.- Shall we go inside? Yeah.

0:25:32 > 0:25:33Brilliant.

0:25:33 > 0:25:36Aisha has done really well in her school,

0:25:36 > 0:25:39making it into their top 10%,

0:25:39 > 0:25:42and she is predicted to get the three As necessary for entry here.

0:25:43 > 0:25:46She has her heart set on studying at Oxford.

0:25:49 > 0:25:51So of all the universities that you could apply to,

0:25:51 > 0:25:55why do you particularly want to come to Oxford University?

0:25:55 > 0:26:00As everyone knows, Oxford University is one of the best in the world.

0:26:00 > 0:26:06If I can get the same grades as someone who goes to Eton or Harrow,

0:26:06 > 0:26:08or even any other, sort of, private college,

0:26:08 > 0:26:13then I should be able to then apply for that same university.

0:26:13 > 0:26:15I feel like I deserve that right,

0:26:15 > 0:26:18especially because it's not so common within, you know,

0:26:18 > 0:26:22- the urban black...- Environment.

0:26:22 > 0:26:24Yeah. That's what drives me,

0:26:24 > 0:26:27just wanting to sort of go against the odds

0:26:27 > 0:26:30and actually help people like me,

0:26:30 > 0:26:33sort of, break the mould and, you know,

0:26:33 > 0:26:36just get up there in life as well.

0:26:36 > 0:26:39Because there isn't any reason why intelligent young black people

0:26:39 > 0:26:43shouldn't be able to go to one of the best universities in the world.

0:26:43 > 0:26:44That's how I feel, anyway.

0:26:53 > 0:26:55A couple of prime ministers up there.

0:26:55 > 0:26:59Clement Attlee is just on the right and Wilson is on the left.

0:27:01 > 0:27:04You know, I'm really impressed with Aisha.

0:27:04 > 0:27:07What a mature, determined and purposeful young lady.

0:27:07 > 0:27:10She knows exactly what she wants and how to get there.

0:27:11 > 0:27:15We need more young people like her in more elite places like this

0:27:15 > 0:27:18if we're ever going to break through the glass ceiling to success.

0:27:18 > 0:27:20I really hope she gets offered a place.

0:27:22 > 0:27:24Go on, girl!

0:27:24 > 0:27:27- Have you got the university prospectus?- Erm, no.

0:27:27 > 0:27:31Aisha may be hopeful of getting a place at Oxford, but the truth is,

0:27:31 > 0:27:33being black and state educated,

0:27:33 > 0:27:35the odds are heavily stacked against her,

0:27:35 > 0:27:37as Faiza has been finding out.

0:27:39 > 0:27:41Fortunately, the University of Oxford

0:27:41 > 0:27:45publishes their admissions data and breaks it down by ethnicity.

0:27:45 > 0:27:46So I've been taking a look at that

0:27:46 > 0:27:49and these are the figures, despite big outreach efforts

0:27:49 > 0:27:52being made by the university to attract black students.

0:27:52 > 0:27:57We'd expect to see about 4% of their students

0:27:57 > 0:27:59being black or black mixed race

0:27:59 > 0:28:02if it was to be representative of the broader population.

0:28:03 > 0:28:06But, as you can see, they've been below the mark.

0:28:06 > 0:28:10In 2009, they had a low of 1.5%

0:28:10 > 0:28:14and in 2015, that rose to 2.5%.

0:28:14 > 0:28:18That's still painfully below the representative target of 4%

0:28:18 > 0:28:20and Oxford's not the worst.

0:28:20 > 0:28:24Black students are under-represented in many UK universities.

0:28:25 > 0:28:27Things are improving.

0:28:27 > 0:28:31But as recently as 2012, Oxford and Cambridge universities

0:28:31 > 0:28:34were found to be disproportionately selecting their students

0:28:34 > 0:28:36from just three prestigious private schools

0:28:36 > 0:28:38and two elite sixth form colleges.

0:28:38 > 0:28:40Eton, Westminster, Saint Pauls,

0:28:40 > 0:28:42Peter Symonds College

0:28:42 > 0:28:43and Hills Road College in Cambridge

0:28:43 > 0:28:45were getting as many pupils

0:28:45 > 0:28:46into Oxford and Cambridge

0:28:46 > 0:28:50as 1,800 state schools and colleges

0:28:50 > 0:28:52in England combined.

0:28:52 > 0:28:53Wow!

0:28:55 > 0:28:57That's staggering.

0:28:57 > 0:29:00Those top schools - Eton, Westminster, Saint Pauls -

0:29:00 > 0:29:03these are amongst the most expensive private schools in the country.

0:29:03 > 0:29:09Those are clearly fast tracks into Oxford and Cambridge University.

0:29:09 > 0:29:14And then onwards into the more top jobs,

0:29:14 > 0:29:19and, obviously, on to being prime minister.

0:29:19 > 0:29:21And here's another troubling statistic.

0:29:21 > 0:29:25When black and minority ethnic pupils apply to Oxford

0:29:25 > 0:29:30or those top universities, they are less likely to get in

0:29:30 > 0:29:35than their white counterparts, even when they have the same grades.

0:29:36 > 0:29:38What?!

0:29:40 > 0:29:42I'm just staggered by that.

0:29:42 > 0:29:44I mean, again, that speaks to discrimination.

0:29:44 > 0:29:45It speaks to prejudice.

0:29:47 > 0:29:50A complete lack of understanding of the hurdles,

0:29:50 > 0:29:52of the difficulties that that black child has overcome

0:29:52 > 0:29:54- just to make it to that point.- Yeah.

0:29:54 > 0:29:57I mean, you would think, given the odds they've faced

0:29:57 > 0:29:59and the odds they've beaten, they'd be more likely to get in

0:29:59 > 0:30:04- because they've shown... - Tenacity, strength, all of that.

0:30:04 > 0:30:07They've shown the desire,

0:30:07 > 0:30:11a strength of personality to overcome all the hurdles

0:30:11 > 0:30:12that have been thrown at them,

0:30:12 > 0:30:15and then they're still not being given entrance

0:30:15 > 0:30:16into that institution.

0:30:16 > 0:30:20It makes me feel angry, because you think, you know, it's...

0:30:21 > 0:30:24It's not that we are less intelligent,

0:30:24 > 0:30:26it's not that we are less capable.

0:30:28 > 0:30:30It's the fact that there is...

0:30:31 > 0:30:33There is a layer,

0:30:33 > 0:30:38there is a barrier which is that barrier of discrimination and bias.

0:30:42 > 0:30:47Doctor Vikki Boliver from Durham University carried out the research

0:30:47 > 0:30:50into Oxford and other top universities' admissions data.

0:30:50 > 0:30:52She believes it reveals an inherent bias

0:30:52 > 0:30:55within the universities' admissions process.

0:30:56 > 0:30:58The disparity in offer rate

0:30:58 > 0:31:01suggests that black students are being turned away

0:31:01 > 0:31:03in greater numbers than white students,

0:31:03 > 0:31:05even when they are very well qualified

0:31:05 > 0:31:06to enter these universities.

0:31:09 > 0:31:13I think that unconscious bias is likely to be playing a role here.

0:31:13 > 0:31:16Unconscious bias describes the stereotypes

0:31:16 > 0:31:19that exist in our society about different social groups,

0:31:19 > 0:31:21different genders, different ethnic groups,

0:31:21 > 0:31:23that admission selectors hold, that all of us hold

0:31:23 > 0:31:26and have the potential to creep into decision-making.

0:31:26 > 0:31:31It might be that admission tutors have in the back of their minds

0:31:31 > 0:31:34negative stereotypes about black students.

0:31:34 > 0:31:37It might be that they have unconscious thoughts

0:31:37 > 0:31:40about whether somebody will fit in in the environment,

0:31:40 > 0:31:42which, of course, Oxford University

0:31:42 > 0:31:44is quite a white, socially elite environment.

0:31:44 > 0:31:47These things might be at the back of people's minds

0:31:47 > 0:31:49not consciously, but unconsciously.

0:31:51 > 0:31:55The effects of unconscious bias are well known

0:31:55 > 0:31:57and can also have an opposite, positive effect

0:31:57 > 0:32:02on the chances for white, privately educated, middle-class students.

0:32:03 > 0:32:08Part of unconscious bias is that we tend to gravitate towards

0:32:08 > 0:32:11and unconsciously prefer people who are like us.

0:32:11 > 0:32:15So it's quite possible that, to a degree, these admissions tutors

0:32:15 > 0:32:17are recruiting in their own image

0:32:17 > 0:32:19because they have very positive associations

0:32:19 > 0:32:21with people who are like them.

0:32:21 > 0:32:24It's still the case that the vast majority of the tutors

0:32:24 > 0:32:28are white, middle- to upper middle-class British

0:32:28 > 0:32:31and so the values that are celebrated there

0:32:31 > 0:32:33and the cultures that are appreciated there

0:32:33 > 0:32:35are relatively narrow.

0:32:35 > 0:32:38And it's harder, I think, for those institutions

0:32:38 > 0:32:41to value other cultures and other contributions.

0:32:41 > 0:32:42But clearly they need to do that.

0:32:48 > 0:32:51Oxford University's director of admissions declined our request

0:32:51 > 0:32:52to be interviewed for this programme,

0:32:52 > 0:32:55claiming that the issue of under-representation

0:32:55 > 0:32:57of black and minority ethnic groups at the university

0:32:57 > 0:33:00is an old and out of date story.

0:33:01 > 0:33:03We tried again.

0:33:03 > 0:33:07- We asked if- any- representative from the university would come forward

0:33:07 > 0:33:11to be interviewed to defend the university's record on this matter.

0:33:11 > 0:33:15We were finally told, "We do not think the premise of your programme

0:33:15 > 0:33:18"is strong enough to warrant an institutional response."

0:33:21 > 0:33:23I think that pretty much speaks for itself.

0:33:29 > 0:33:32- 'Someone who- was- willing to be interviewed

0:33:32 > 0:33:34'was president of Oxford University's

0:33:34 > 0:33:38'African and Caribbean Society, Cameron Alexander.'

0:33:38 > 0:33:40Where did you go up?

0:33:40 > 0:33:41In Luton. I grew up in Luton,

0:33:41 > 0:33:44in the estate called Tintown.

0:33:44 > 0:33:45Is that a kind of working-class area?

0:33:45 > 0:33:47Yeah. Very working-class, very working-class.

0:33:50 > 0:33:53'Cameron is now in his third year at Oxford.

0:33:53 > 0:33:55'He went to a state school in his hometown of Luton

0:33:55 > 0:33:57'before winning a scholarship

0:33:57 > 0:33:59'to a prestigious sixth form boarding school.

0:34:01 > 0:34:04'He's become quite used to being one of the few black people

0:34:04 > 0:34:06'in a white person's world.'

0:34:06 > 0:34:10So, why do you think that black people

0:34:10 > 0:34:13are under-represented here at Oxford?

0:34:13 > 0:34:17I think it comes down to, like, a lot of structural factors.

0:34:17 > 0:34:20I think if you look at the nature of the education

0:34:20 > 0:34:23that the majority of the black people who might apply

0:34:23 > 0:34:25or might want to apply are receiving,

0:34:25 > 0:34:27it isn't necessarily as good

0:34:27 > 0:34:29and is not necessarily as focused on Oxbridge.

0:34:29 > 0:34:31I think if you look at what Oxbridge are looking for

0:34:31 > 0:34:33in their students, there's a lot of things

0:34:33 > 0:34:36that are more easily accessible within public schools.

0:34:36 > 0:34:38They are looking for kids who have been to, like, talks,

0:34:38 > 0:34:41kids who have engaged with magazines or The Economist

0:34:41 > 0:34:43or different types of things.

0:34:43 > 0:34:45Some things are expensive to engage with, you know.

0:34:45 > 0:34:50If you've got an entirely kind of like monolithic, homogenous professor,

0:34:50 > 0:34:55you know, then why would they know about the nature of inner-city London

0:34:55 > 0:34:56or the nature of estates?

0:34:56 > 0:34:58They wouldn't have known half the hurdles.

0:34:58 > 0:35:00Exactly. They wouldn't have known the hurdles,

0:35:00 > 0:35:02they might not necessarily be engaging

0:35:02 > 0:35:03with what's hard about your path.

0:35:03 > 0:35:05Maybe they are just not resonating with that

0:35:05 > 0:35:07and I think those things do have an impact.

0:35:11 > 0:35:13It's perhaps understandable

0:35:13 > 0:35:15that a white, middle-class Oxford professor

0:35:15 > 0:35:18might fail to fully understand the desires and anxieties

0:35:18 > 0:35:21of inner-city working-class black kids.

0:35:22 > 0:35:25But Cameron believes the problem is more fundamental than that.

0:35:27 > 0:35:29It's not the most damning condemnation ever of Oxford

0:35:29 > 0:35:31to say, "Oxford's a racist institution,"

0:35:31 > 0:35:32or, "Oxford has a cultural preference

0:35:32 > 0:35:35"which is against black people." It's the reality of the situation.

0:35:35 > 0:35:37You know, it's a reality of the history.

0:35:37 > 0:35:40Are you suggesting that Oxford is institutionally racist?

0:35:40 > 0:35:42Yeah.

0:35:42 > 0:35:44I think that's something we should really just, kind of, like,

0:35:44 > 0:35:47just get with and accept and understand

0:35:47 > 0:35:51and say it's something that they are working towards making better.

0:35:51 > 0:35:54But I think, you know, Britain's institutionally racist.

0:35:54 > 0:35:55Oxford's institutionally racist.

0:35:55 > 0:35:57We should engage with it.

0:35:57 > 0:35:59We should say, "Look, Oxford carries a bias."

0:35:59 > 0:36:02Institutionally, it's harder for black people to be here.

0:36:02 > 0:36:03That's a form of systematic racism.

0:36:03 > 0:36:06It's an uncomfortable situation. It's an uncomfortable conversation,

0:36:06 > 0:36:08but we need to embrace that uncomfortable conversation.

0:36:16 > 0:36:18You know, I've been on a really incredible journey

0:36:18 > 0:36:20with this programme and it's really struck me today

0:36:20 > 0:36:23that if you were going to design a system

0:36:23 > 0:36:27that disadvantaged black people at every level from nursery,

0:36:27 > 0:36:30to schooling, to university and on up through the social system...

0:36:31 > 0:36:34..you couldn't actually design it any better.

0:36:34 > 0:36:37And there seems to be this begrudging reluctance

0:36:37 > 0:36:40to acknowledge, dismantle and change that system.

0:36:43 > 0:36:46Maybe there are certain groups that have a vested interest

0:36:46 > 0:36:47in keeping it that way?

0:37:03 > 0:37:06Oh, yeah, here we go. Great title sequences.

0:37:06 > 0:37:07Air and naval forces of the United States

0:37:07 > 0:37:10launched a series of strikes against terrorist facilities...

0:37:10 > 0:37:12Oh, I love this. I love it.

0:37:14 > 0:37:15Fabulous, fabulous, fabulous.

0:37:15 > 0:37:17Oh, here we go.

0:37:22 > 0:37:24(This guy's really good.)

0:37:24 > 0:37:26Sergeant Brody called me.

0:37:26 > 0:37:29You know, there's nothing I like more than staying in of an evening

0:37:29 > 0:37:32and catching up on some of my favourite US drama shows.

0:37:32 > 0:37:34Homeland - what a great show that was.

0:37:38 > 0:37:40You know...

0:37:42 > 0:37:44..when I first started working in America,

0:37:44 > 0:37:47I became acutely aware of just how many great roles

0:37:47 > 0:37:49there were for black actors in the US.

0:37:49 > 0:37:53And I realised it was because, in American society,

0:37:53 > 0:37:56black people do actually occupy powerful and influential roles

0:37:56 > 0:38:00in a way that they just don't here in Britain.

0:38:01 > 0:38:05It's pretty shameful, really, that we should be still so far behind

0:38:05 > 0:38:08and that's not just true in the world of acting.

0:38:08 > 0:38:12It's the same in many of the UK's top industries and professions.

0:38:25 > 0:38:28If a black person is going to make it to prime minister,

0:38:28 > 0:38:30the likelihood is they will need real word experience

0:38:30 > 0:38:33in a top profession or industry.

0:38:34 > 0:38:36So just how many black people are working

0:38:36 > 0:38:39at the top of our key professions and institutions?

0:38:43 > 0:38:46How about the judiciary, the people who implement the law?

0:38:46 > 0:38:50Out of 161 High Court judges, Supreme Court judges,

0:38:50 > 0:38:53Lords Justices of Appeal and heads of division,

0:38:53 > 0:38:56how many of them are black?

0:38:57 > 0:38:59Zero.

0:38:59 > 0:39:01How about those who lead our Armed Forces?

0:39:01 > 0:39:04The people who protect us and under whom our troops serve.

0:39:04 > 0:39:07Out of 133 generals, admirals, and marshalls,

0:39:07 > 0:39:10how many of them are black?

0:39:10 > 0:39:12Zero.

0:39:12 > 0:39:14And how about the media?

0:39:14 > 0:39:17The people who feed us all the news and influence the way we think?

0:39:17 > 0:39:19How many top national newspaper editors,

0:39:19 > 0:39:22broadsheet or tabloid, are black?

0:39:24 > 0:39:27You get the picture now, don't you?

0:39:28 > 0:39:30Many people in modern politics

0:39:30 > 0:39:33come from top jobs in the media or journalism.

0:39:38 > 0:39:41So, I wonder how many black people are working in key positions

0:39:41 > 0:39:44at our biggest public service broadcaster, for example?

0:39:45 > 0:39:47Here in the heart of London,

0:39:47 > 0:39:50where non-whites make up around 40% of the population.

0:39:57 > 0:40:01As I'm working for them, I thought I'd make good use of my BBC pass

0:40:01 > 0:40:02and take a look for myself.

0:40:09 > 0:40:11This is the BBC newsroom, the hub,

0:40:11 > 0:40:16the pumping heart of the BBC's rolling 24-hour news operation.

0:40:17 > 0:40:19It is here where all of the key decisions are made

0:40:19 > 0:40:22about the editorial and creative content

0:40:22 > 0:40:24that we see on our BBC news programmes every day

0:40:24 > 0:40:27and through whose eyes those stories are told.

0:40:29 > 0:40:31Let's have a look and see

0:40:31 > 0:40:34just how many black BBC faces there are busy at work down there.

0:40:45 > 0:40:47Very, very, very white.

0:40:51 > 0:40:54Mainly... Mainly white faces.

0:40:54 > 0:40:56Very, very, very white.

0:41:01 > 0:41:02It's a sea of white faces.

0:41:04 > 0:41:07An ocean of white faces.

0:41:07 > 0:41:10There's a black face just there.

0:41:10 > 0:41:11There's another one.

0:41:13 > 0:41:15Two.

0:41:16 > 0:41:17Two black faces...

0:41:19 > 0:41:22..in a room full of about 300 people.

0:41:24 > 0:41:29It's hideously white, as the former director-general said

0:41:29 > 0:41:32a number of years ago. Obviously, not much has changed.

0:41:37 > 0:41:40Pat Younge is one of the few black people to have made it

0:41:40 > 0:41:42to the highest echelons of the BBC

0:41:42 > 0:41:45when he rose to be chief creative officer.

0:41:45 > 0:41:47He's had a real insider's view

0:41:47 > 0:41:49of the internal structures and hierarchy.

0:41:53 > 0:41:56I've just been down to the BBC newsroom

0:41:56 > 0:42:00and found it to be very white and very middle-class.

0:42:00 > 0:42:04How has the BBC managed to remain

0:42:04 > 0:42:07such a middle-class white institution?

0:42:07 > 0:42:10I don't think it's ever been anything other

0:42:10 > 0:42:13than a middle-class white institution, by and large.

0:42:13 > 0:42:17I mean, people often recruit in their own image and that part of it.

0:42:17 > 0:42:23I remember when I applied to join the BBC News scheme in 1989

0:42:23 > 0:42:27and I got the literature and it said people criticise the BBC

0:42:27 > 0:42:29and this scheme for being Oxbridge-biased,

0:42:29 > 0:42:33but, last year, only half of the successful applicants

0:42:33 > 0:42:35came from Oxford or Cambridge. And I thought, wow,

0:42:35 > 0:42:39just half of the people in this senior stream

0:42:39 > 0:42:41went to one or two universities!

0:42:41 > 0:42:44You know, so what chance does a comprehensive school guy

0:42:44 > 0:42:46from a regional university have?

0:42:46 > 0:42:48So they are picking from a particular pool of people?

0:42:48 > 0:42:51Absolutely. What's happened in the BBC's history

0:42:51 > 0:42:54is one or two black or Asian people have moved forward,

0:42:54 > 0:42:55and then one of them leaves,

0:42:55 > 0:42:57and one of them decides to do something else

0:42:57 > 0:43:00or gets made redundant, and, suddenly, there's none again.

0:43:00 > 0:43:03I think the real challenge for the BBC and, in fact,

0:43:03 > 0:43:05for all the media organisations,

0:43:05 > 0:43:10is that they are largely staffed with middle-class graduates

0:43:10 > 0:43:14who don't have much of an idea about working-class life,

0:43:14 > 0:43:16never mind black life or Asian life.

0:43:21 > 0:43:25The BBC announced its new diversity strategy earlier this year,

0:43:25 > 0:43:29which aims to help black and ethnic minority staff

0:43:29 > 0:43:30get to those top jobs.

0:43:31 > 0:43:34It includes a new leadership development programme,

0:43:34 > 0:43:39an assistant commissioner's training scheme and more interns.

0:43:41 > 0:43:44Tunde Ogungbesan is the BBC's head of diversity

0:43:44 > 0:43:49and he recognises the BBC still has some way to go.

0:43:50 > 0:43:53We would like to have a more representative newsroom, yes.

0:43:53 > 0:43:55I'm not going to look around and have a look,

0:43:55 > 0:43:59but what I can say, again, is that this new strategy

0:43:59 > 0:44:05that we've got in place is aimed at helping the BBC reflect

0:44:05 > 0:44:08and represent the United Kingdom in its workforce.

0:44:08 > 0:44:10That's what this new strategy is all about.

0:44:12 > 0:44:15So, yes, there are things we haven't got to where we want to be yet,

0:44:15 > 0:44:18that's why we've put a strategy in place.

0:44:18 > 0:44:21We can do better and we will do better.

0:44:26 > 0:44:29Almost every institution and influential profession you look at,

0:44:29 > 0:44:31black men and women are under-represented

0:44:31 > 0:44:33in positions of power and influence.

0:44:33 > 0:44:36The media, law, the armed services and politics

0:44:36 > 0:44:40are all top-heavy white, bottom-heavy black institutions.

0:44:40 > 0:44:43That is a shocking reality of today's Britain.

0:44:49 > 0:44:53We are almost there, nearly at the top job.

0:44:53 > 0:44:56It's been a long and difficult journey,

0:44:56 > 0:44:59but if a black person were going to make it

0:44:59 > 0:45:01to the office of prime minister,

0:45:01 > 0:45:03they'd have to get into this place first.

0:45:26 > 0:45:28How diverse is that place?

0:45:28 > 0:45:32How reflective is it of the wider public that it serves?

0:45:32 > 0:45:36How representative are our representatives?

0:45:40 > 0:45:42Let's look at our members of Parliament

0:45:42 > 0:45:44and compare them to the country at large,

0:45:44 > 0:45:46who they are in Parliament to represent.

0:45:48 > 0:45:50White people make up 87%

0:45:50 > 0:45:52of the wider population,

0:45:52 > 0:45:55but white MPs make up 94% of Parliament.

0:45:57 > 0:46:00Non-white people make up 13% of the wider population.

0:46:00 > 0:46:05However, they only make up 6.3% of MPs in Parliament.

0:46:07 > 0:46:09And while people of black African-Caribbean heritage

0:46:09 > 0:46:12make up 4% of the wider population,

0:46:12 > 0:46:15they only make up 2% of the MPs in Parliament.

0:46:18 > 0:46:21Out of a total of 650 MPs,

0:46:21 > 0:46:25just 13 are black or mixed-race black.

0:46:31 > 0:46:35'I arranged to have lunch with one of those black MPs, Kate Osamor

0:46:35 > 0:46:39'a working-class, state-educated black woman.

0:46:43 > 0:46:46'Quite a number of minorities all wrapped up in one.'

0:46:46 > 0:46:49- Do you like spicy food?- I love spicy food.- Well, you'll like this place.

0:46:49 > 0:46:51- I'm looking forward to that. - Wonderful. Thank you.

0:46:51 > 0:46:53- Oh, wow!- Oh, gosh!

0:46:54 > 0:46:56You've got to make sure you dip it in a bit of the...

0:46:56 > 0:46:58Look at that!

0:47:00 > 0:47:02'If someone like Kate can make it into Parliament,

0:47:02 > 0:47:05'and into the Shadow Cabinet,

0:47:05 > 0:47:07'then the chances of a black person one day

0:47:07 > 0:47:10'making it to the very top job must be improving.'

0:47:13 > 0:47:17What was it like for you arriving in Parliament,

0:47:17 > 0:47:23being surrounded by these very white, very upper-class individuals?

0:47:23 > 0:47:27Well, first and foremost, it's not the first time I've met posh people!

0:47:27 > 0:47:29- THEY LAUGH - I've met them before.

0:47:29 > 0:47:32So I wasn't totally a fish out of water.

0:47:32 > 0:47:34But, you know, in all seriousness,

0:47:34 > 0:47:37there are loads of protocols that you have to adhere to,

0:47:37 > 0:47:40you've got to learn, which I was never taught.

0:47:40 > 0:47:44So I'm learning how to speak in a language that I don't normally use.

0:47:44 > 0:47:48I'm learning to always get permission before I speak,

0:47:48 > 0:47:51I don't come from that. I come from, just, you fight your way through.

0:47:51 > 0:47:53If you've got something to say, just say it!

0:47:53 > 0:47:55Quickly! And get out of the room.

0:47:57 > 0:48:01But, no, in all seriousness, I think that's one of the biggest issues.

0:48:01 > 0:48:02If you're not confident,

0:48:02 > 0:48:05if you don't think someone wants to hear your voice,

0:48:05 > 0:48:06then you're not going to ask.

0:48:06 > 0:48:09You're going to sit back and you're going to be intimidated,

0:48:09 > 0:48:12whereas I'm the opposite. I have a story and I want to speak.

0:48:12 > 0:48:15I want to speak up for all of those people that I grew up with

0:48:15 > 0:48:17that didn't have anyone speaking for them.

0:48:17 > 0:48:21I have to push past the poshness, the upper-class...

0:48:21 > 0:48:24Just forget that. They are like me.

0:48:24 > 0:48:27They do the same things as I do.

0:48:27 > 0:48:29What do you think the chances are

0:48:29 > 0:48:31of Britain having a black prime minister?

0:48:31 > 0:48:35It's possible. But we do need to have more MPs first

0:48:35 > 0:48:36for that to happen.

0:48:36 > 0:48:39So you need more of your critical mass

0:48:39 > 0:48:41for you to be able to get through.

0:48:41 > 0:48:43And at this point in time, that's not happened,

0:48:43 > 0:48:47so we need more MPs that are coming from diverse communities first

0:48:47 > 0:48:51before we can look at having a black, you know, prime minister.

0:49:02 > 0:49:05You know, we have an incredible situation in Britain today

0:49:05 > 0:49:08where it's entirely possible for our politicians,

0:49:08 > 0:49:10who rely on policy advisers to advise,

0:49:10 > 0:49:13and civil servants to devise policy,

0:49:13 > 0:49:16and for journalists who report on them

0:49:16 > 0:49:21all to have studied the same courses at the same universities

0:49:21 > 0:49:25and, quite possibly, have been taught by the same tutors.

0:49:26 > 0:49:29The British system is elitist and it has to change.

0:49:29 > 0:49:30The question is,

0:49:30 > 0:49:32how is that change going to happen?

0:49:39 > 0:49:42I dipped my own toe into political waters last year

0:49:42 > 0:49:45when I agreed to front a TV advert

0:49:45 > 0:49:47'designed to encourage black people to vote.

0:49:47 > 0:49:49'It didn't pull its punches.'

0:49:51 > 0:49:54If you're black or Asian, and you're not registered to vote,

0:49:54 > 0:49:57you're actually taking the colour out of Britain.

0:49:57 > 0:49:58And, quite frankly...

0:49:59 > 0:50:01..that looks ridiculous.

0:50:01 > 0:50:04Now, I know you don't feel represented by politicians.

0:50:04 > 0:50:07The thing is, if you're not registered,

0:50:07 > 0:50:10- then they won't- ever- listen.

0:50:10 > 0:50:11It's the chicken and egg.

0:50:13 > 0:50:17The advert was for campaign group Operation Black Vote.

0:50:17 > 0:50:23It's led by former race equality and human rights commissioner Simon Woolley.

0:50:23 > 0:50:25- Hey!- Hello.

0:50:25 > 0:50:28- Good to see you, man.- You, too. How are you?- Yeah, really good.

0:50:28 > 0:50:32'Along with encouraging black people to use their vote,

0:50:32 > 0:50:34'Operation Black Vote also does what it can

0:50:34 > 0:50:36'to support black candidates and MPs,

0:50:36 > 0:50:38'whatever their political party.'

0:50:42 > 0:50:45We've been doing some work so it's a bit of a mess at the moment.

0:50:45 > 0:50:47'Simon has been closely studying

0:50:47 > 0:50:49'black politics in the UK for decades.

0:50:50 > 0:50:53'He understands better than most the compromises

0:50:53 > 0:50:56'black politicians need to make in order to get on.'

0:51:00 > 0:51:02I have all these conversations because I need to,

0:51:02 > 0:51:04with politicians from all political parties.

0:51:04 > 0:51:09And one black MP, who will remain nameless, once said to me,

0:51:09 > 0:51:11"Simon, when I joined the party,

0:51:11 > 0:51:17"there was a real engagement to beat the blackness out of me..."

0:51:19 > 0:51:21"..if I was to make progress..."

0:51:21 > 0:51:23I said to him, "What do you mean by that?"

0:51:23 > 0:51:25He said, "Look, we know you're black,

0:51:25 > 0:51:26"but we don't want you to talk about it."

0:51:26 > 0:51:29- Can you say which party it was?- No.

0:51:30 > 0:51:33So, for a black candidate, then...

0:51:33 > 0:51:35- You have to play the game. - You have to play the game.

0:51:35 > 0:51:37But playing the game, you can't be too black...

0:51:37 > 0:51:40- You can't be too black.- Because if you are, it frightens the horses.

0:51:40 > 0:51:42- You're not going to get that vote. - No.

0:51:42 > 0:51:45How ready and willing do you think the British public are

0:51:45 > 0:51:48to elect a black prime minister?

0:51:49 > 0:51:52I'm an eternal optimist.

0:51:52 > 0:51:56And I do think, with the right character, the right individual,

0:51:56 > 0:51:59an individual that's smart enough,

0:51:59 > 0:52:03that the British public could readily vote

0:52:03 > 0:52:05for a black prime minister.

0:52:05 > 0:52:08And a black Prime Minister that says to the public,

0:52:08 > 0:52:11"Look, our diversity is our strength.

0:52:11 > 0:52:13"We embrace that."

0:52:13 > 0:52:14I mean, I genuinely feel -

0:52:14 > 0:52:17and I wouldn't have said this ten years ago, David -

0:52:17 > 0:52:23that in our lifetime, within the next, I would say the next decade,

0:52:23 > 0:52:25that we will see a black prime minister.

0:52:25 > 0:52:29So, how important do you think it would therefore be

0:52:29 > 0:52:33for this potential black prime minister

0:52:33 > 0:52:37not just to win the black vote, but to win the majority white vote?

0:52:37 > 0:52:39It's going to take a special individual

0:52:39 > 0:52:42that is able to speak to the majority,

0:52:42 > 0:52:45the white majority, if you like,

0:52:45 > 0:52:48that you have their best interests at heart,

0:52:48 > 0:52:51that you understand their challenges and concerns.

0:52:51 > 0:52:54And you, as a minority prime minister,

0:52:54 > 0:52:58are not going to favour your racial group,

0:52:58 > 0:53:00that you're able to take everybody along.

0:53:00 > 0:53:02It's critically important.

0:53:05 > 0:53:08If they can take their constituencies along with them,

0:53:08 > 0:53:11then they become the kind of rounded politician

0:53:11 > 0:53:14that is able to resonate in all these different areas

0:53:14 > 0:53:16that you need to do if you're going to be prime minister.

0:53:16 > 0:53:19You cannot leave anyone behind.

0:53:26 > 0:53:29So, our journey up through the British system,

0:53:29 > 0:53:32through education, employment, politics

0:53:32 > 0:53:35and, finally, to the office of prime minister

0:53:35 > 0:53:36is almost at an end.

0:53:40 > 0:53:42So what is the statistical likelihood

0:53:42 > 0:53:47of a black person making it through the door of ten Downing St?

0:53:56 > 0:53:58Faiza has developed her statistical model

0:53:58 > 0:54:01which enables her to make a probability calculation.

0:54:03 > 0:54:06OK, David, the calculation is complete.

0:54:06 > 0:54:10The chances of a black child, born today,

0:54:10 > 0:54:12making it up through the British system

0:54:12 > 0:54:15and to number ten Downing Street

0:54:15 > 0:54:19as Prime Minister is...

0:54:19 > 0:54:22One in 17 million?!

0:54:23 > 0:54:28That compares to one in 1.4 million for their white counterparts.

0:54:28 > 0:54:32So a black person is 12 times less likely

0:54:32 > 0:54:34to make it to number ten Downing Street

0:54:34 > 0:54:38as Prime Minister than their white counterparts.

0:54:42 > 0:54:45I'm kind of speechless about that, actually.

0:54:45 > 0:54:4812 times less likely...

0:54:50 > 0:54:53Wow! So, what were we saying earlier on

0:54:53 > 0:54:54about having to work twice as hard?

0:54:54 > 0:54:58Maybe it's having to work 12 times as hard.

0:55:00 > 0:55:03I mean, of course, we know that people do beat the odds.

0:55:03 > 0:55:06- Of course.- But that is a huge odd to beat.

0:55:06 > 0:55:09OK. One in 17 million.

0:55:10 > 0:55:12You know what you've got to do!

0:55:13 > 0:55:15But, David, that isn't the end of the story.

0:55:15 > 0:55:20For those who are white and born into wealthy households,

0:55:20 > 0:55:24who go to private school, get into the top universities,

0:55:24 > 0:55:26onto the top jobs...

0:55:28 > 0:55:34..their chances of becoming prime minister are...

0:55:34 > 0:55:36Hugely smaller numbers.

0:55:36 > 0:55:41In fact, they are 90 times more likely

0:55:41 > 0:55:46to make it to prime minister than a black person.

0:55:47 > 0:55:49Huge difference.

0:55:49 > 0:55:52- Huge difference. - Incredible numbers.

0:55:52 > 0:55:55Really fundamentally staggering numbers.

0:55:56 > 0:55:59So what this has clearly demonstrated to me

0:55:59 > 0:56:03is that the system is structured in such an elitist way

0:56:03 > 0:56:08that it favours wealth, privilege over others,

0:56:08 > 0:56:09particularly people of colour.

0:56:09 > 0:56:12If you're a state school-educated black kid,

0:56:12 > 0:56:17even if you cross all those hurdles that we've already talked about,

0:56:17 > 0:56:21the system still, inherently, is going to disadvantage you.

0:56:21 > 0:56:26- Yep.- You would think that they have a more fundamental understanding

0:56:26 > 0:56:27of the difficulties of life,

0:56:27 > 0:56:31as opposed to somebody who's really been fed privilege all his life.

0:56:31 > 0:56:32What does he really understand about life?

0:56:32 > 0:56:35What does he really know about the struggles of life?

0:56:35 > 0:56:39How is he then able to walk into Number Ten

0:56:39 > 0:56:43and tell us how to live our lives?

0:56:44 > 0:56:46It's quite staggering, really.

0:57:01 > 0:57:03I refuse to be disheartened.

0:57:03 > 0:57:06If there's one thing I've learned from my own life,

0:57:06 > 0:57:11it's that black people can and will, despite the odds,

0:57:11 > 0:57:13break through those barriers to success.

0:57:16 > 0:57:20It's a struggle that starts from the day you were born

0:57:20 > 0:57:23and would appear to remain throughout your life.

0:57:28 > 0:57:31But the people I've met making this film

0:57:31 > 0:57:32have given me real optimism

0:57:32 > 0:57:38that, one day in the not too distant future,

0:57:38 > 0:57:42- we- will- make it to the very top job.

0:57:47 > 0:57:50If a black man or woman is ever going to make it here,

0:57:50 > 0:57:53they are going to have to make the most extraordinary journey.

0:57:53 > 0:57:56They will most likely have had to overcome the barriers of poverty

0:57:56 > 0:57:58and the lack of social networks.

0:57:58 > 0:58:01They will have to fight past the obstacles in our education system

0:58:01 > 0:58:02and avoid the pitfalls.

0:58:02 > 0:58:05The chances are they will have to face down discrimination

0:58:05 > 0:58:08in the workplace and defeat political prejudice

0:58:08 > 0:58:10in order to rise to the top.

0:58:10 > 0:58:12Any black individual who can achieve this

0:58:12 > 0:58:15will need to have a set of superhuman characteristics

0:58:15 > 0:58:18and qualities and be the most multifaceted

0:58:18 > 0:58:21and resilient of individuals.

0:58:21 > 0:58:24And, of course, they'll need a healthy dose of luck.

0:58:24 > 0:58:25That...

0:58:26 > 0:58:29Well, that could take a lifetime.