Paula Rego: Secrets and Stories

0:00:02 > 0:00:06This programme contains some strong language

0:00:06 > 0:00:11and some scenes which some viewers may find upsetting

0:00:26 > 0:00:30When I'm doing a picture and I've got the story...

0:00:30 > 0:00:32and I don't know where to put it -

0:00:32 > 0:00:35like, you know, the background, the setting for it -

0:00:35 > 0:00:39I go back to a place I knew as a child

0:00:39 > 0:00:41and I remember the room.

0:00:41 > 0:00:45I draw in the furniture and the room

0:00:45 > 0:00:47and then put the story in there.

0:00:55 > 0:00:58CLASSICAL MUSIC PLAYS

0:01:22 > 0:01:29A Paula Rego painting goes to places of psychic and emotional experience

0:01:29 > 0:01:31that had really been off limits.

0:01:32 > 0:01:35The permission she gave to enter these areas,

0:01:35 > 0:01:38it was a flinging open of the barricades.

0:01:47 > 0:01:50It's terribly important to have what I call a story

0:01:50 > 0:01:54and the transformations that it goes through are colossal.

0:01:54 > 0:01:57You take the most enormous risks.

0:02:19 > 0:02:22Paula's produced a body of work over 50 years

0:02:22 > 0:02:27which stands right up with the best things that people have done.

0:02:27 > 0:02:30She'll have a huge, lasting legacy.

0:02:32 > 0:02:34I think that if you do pictures,

0:02:34 > 0:02:41they are about what's inside you as much as what's outside you,

0:02:41 > 0:02:46but that you've got secrets and stories

0:02:46 > 0:02:49that you want to put out there in the pictures.

0:02:51 > 0:02:54My mother has always been a bit of a mystery to me,

0:02:54 > 0:02:58not only as an artist, but also as a mum.

0:02:58 > 0:03:01Secretive and guarded.

0:03:01 > 0:03:04Then, unexpectedly, after her 80th birthday,

0:03:04 > 0:03:07she started telling me stories I'd never heard before

0:03:07 > 0:03:11so I asked her if she'd make a film about her experiences,

0:03:11 > 0:03:16the struggles that turned her into one of our most important artists,

0:03:16 > 0:03:18and to my surprise, she agreed.

0:03:38 > 0:03:39She was a good painter.

0:03:39 > 0:03:42She was an amazing painter, that she could do anything.

0:03:44 > 0:03:46I've got some pictures...

0:03:46 > 0:03:50The room upstairs with ten legs

0:03:50 > 0:03:54and peculiar tops and things

0:03:54 > 0:03:57and she drew that in a flash, right away.

0:03:57 > 0:04:01Even without looking too closely at it, she'd do it quickly.

0:04:01 > 0:04:05I mean, sometimes I used to go behind her with an easel

0:04:05 > 0:04:08when I was very little and do a picture,

0:04:08 > 0:04:10but that was to be near her.

0:04:10 > 0:04:14She didn't encourage me to paint, particularly.

0:04:15 > 0:04:18She used to be knitting all the time for the soldiers

0:04:18 > 0:04:24and when they had a sale, she used to ask me to decorate the walls.

0:04:28 > 0:04:31It was a long time ago and I was very little,

0:04:31 > 0:04:33but here she is, still at it, huh?

0:04:35 > 0:04:37Good girl.

0:04:37 > 0:04:39Naughty girl sometimes.

0:04:39 > 0:04:42- Why?- Well, she was... My mother was quite harsh.

0:04:43 > 0:04:45You weren't close, were you?

0:04:45 > 0:04:47- No.- No?

0:04:47 > 0:04:49- Not at all.- No.

0:04:49 > 0:04:53- You were always fighting? - Yes, quite a lot.

0:04:53 > 0:04:55She told me off and stuff.

0:04:55 > 0:04:57Did she?

0:04:58 > 0:05:00She didn't tell me anything.

0:05:00 > 0:05:03Nothing, you know, like having babies and all that sort of thing.

0:05:03 > 0:05:05Never, never.

0:05:05 > 0:05:07When I had my first period,

0:05:07 > 0:05:11she just said, "Now, you must be careful.

0:05:11 > 0:05:15"You mustn't let any man come near you",

0:05:15 > 0:05:17and I was very surprised,

0:05:17 > 0:05:20but I didn't pay any attention to it, of course.

0:05:20 > 0:05:23I didn't know what she meant.

0:05:27 > 0:05:32My mother is really a casualty of the society she lived in.

0:05:32 > 0:05:37That society was a deadly killer society for women

0:05:37 > 0:05:40and I despised it for that.

0:05:40 > 0:05:42You see, they encourage women to do nothing,

0:05:42 > 0:05:44and the less they did,

0:05:44 > 0:05:47the more they were admired for it.

0:05:49 > 0:05:51That is women of a certain class -

0:05:51 > 0:05:54the poor women had to do bloody everything.

0:05:57 > 0:06:01Well, Portugal was a fascist country, actually,

0:06:01 > 0:06:02and it was...

0:06:02 > 0:06:05There was no freedom of speech.

0:06:05 > 0:06:09There was censorship all over the place, you couldn't speak your mind,

0:06:09 > 0:06:11so it was an immensely repressive society.

0:06:11 > 0:06:12It didn't show

0:06:12 > 0:06:15because people went about behaving themselves.

0:06:15 > 0:06:16There were rebellions at times,

0:06:16 > 0:06:19but most of them were put down, ruthlessly.

0:06:19 > 0:06:21So, on the whole, on the surface, everything ran.

0:06:21 > 0:06:24People talked about football a lot

0:06:24 > 0:06:26and behaved themselves.

0:06:29 > 0:06:31When they had lunch together,

0:06:31 > 0:06:34when my father and my grandfather, or whatever it is,

0:06:34 > 0:06:36went out to lunch in the cafe,

0:06:36 > 0:06:40there would probably be a whorehouse next door or something.

0:06:40 > 0:06:42They'd have lunch and then they'd go and fuck.

0:06:42 > 0:06:45It was part of the life in Portugal.

0:06:45 > 0:06:48It was...normal.

0:06:48 > 0:06:52In fact, it was a good thing for your health.

0:06:56 > 0:06:59My sister and I found many of these childhood pictures

0:06:59 > 0:07:02rolled up in the basement of our grandmother's house.

0:07:02 > 0:07:06Mum told us that although she started drawing when she was four,

0:07:06 > 0:07:09it wasn't until her father began reading to her

0:07:09 > 0:07:12that she became obsessed with painting the stories.

0:07:13 > 0:07:16He would scare her with this book of Dante's Inferno...

0:07:18 > 0:07:21..but also introduced her to the operas of Verdi

0:07:21 > 0:07:23and Walt Disney movies.

0:07:23 > 0:07:26Even as a little girl, Mum discovered that she could escape

0:07:26 > 0:07:28her repressive middle-class upbringing

0:07:28 > 0:07:30by painting whatever she liked,

0:07:30 > 0:07:34acting out her fantasies and fears in her pictures.

0:07:39 > 0:07:42My dad was a complete liberal.

0:07:42 > 0:07:45He hated the politics that they had there.

0:07:45 > 0:07:49In fact, he came away to England and left me

0:07:49 > 0:07:52to be looked after by my grandparents

0:07:52 > 0:07:54and came back when I was two-and-a-half,

0:07:54 > 0:07:56so I didn't know them.

0:07:56 > 0:07:59I didn't know my mother or my father until they came back.

0:08:09 > 0:08:13But he also had a tough life in his own way.

0:08:13 > 0:08:15- Yes.- He suffered from depression quite a lot.

0:08:15 > 0:08:17Yes, he did.

0:08:17 > 0:08:20You see, he's got a crown of thorns.

0:08:20 > 0:08:23Poor man, he had a bad time.

0:08:23 > 0:08:27Didn't speak. He would come along, sit down to dinner,

0:08:27 > 0:08:29have dinner without saying a word

0:08:29 > 0:08:33and getting up and turning on the radio, the BBC,

0:08:33 > 0:08:37to hear the news because we could hear what was really going on

0:08:37 > 0:08:40in Portugal only from the BBC Overseas Service,

0:08:40 > 0:08:42because it was all lies in Portugal.

0:08:57 > 0:08:59My grandmother said to me once,

0:08:59 > 0:09:02"You know, you must always obey your husband.

0:09:02 > 0:09:06"You must never go against him or say anything against him

0:09:06 > 0:09:09"and never cross him. Whatever he wants, you have to do."

0:09:09 > 0:09:13But I just didn't take any notice of it,

0:09:13 > 0:09:18but it must have sunk in because I was pretty obedient with my husband.

0:09:18 > 0:09:19PAULA LAUGHS

0:09:19 > 0:09:21It must've sunk in, you know?

0:09:25 > 0:09:28So women get quite a raw deal in Portugal at this time?

0:09:28 > 0:09:30They do. They do now, I'm sure.

0:09:30 > 0:09:32That's what my father said -

0:09:32 > 0:09:35"This isn't a place for women, you must go away."

0:09:39 > 0:09:41- NEWSREEL:- At the Slade School

0:09:41 > 0:09:43in University College London,

0:09:43 > 0:09:46about 400 students apply for admission every January.

0:09:49 > 0:09:52We had to draw from sculptures,

0:09:52 > 0:09:55old-fashioned sculptures like Michelangelo and so on.

0:09:55 > 0:09:57We had a room full of them.

0:09:57 > 0:09:59And we had to sit there copying them.

0:09:59 > 0:10:01I didn't like doing that,

0:10:01 > 0:10:04so I hid behind them and I did my own pictures.

0:10:09 > 0:10:11So they allowed me to go to the life classes,

0:10:11 > 0:10:13so I could draw from the model.

0:10:14 > 0:10:16But at the same time as this,

0:10:16 > 0:10:19I loved doing things from the imagination.

0:10:19 > 0:10:22I always had a corner in the antique room

0:10:22 > 0:10:27where I could put up an easel and a canvas,

0:10:27 > 0:10:29and do a picture from my head.

0:10:32 > 0:10:34And, of course, then one becomes very self-conscious

0:10:34 > 0:10:40at art school, being a day girl, not being an intellectual,

0:10:40 > 0:10:44the restricted way of teaching in those days,

0:10:44 > 0:10:48the Euston Road method, which I could not do.

0:10:48 > 0:10:50You lose your...

0:10:50 > 0:10:53It's not so much your confidence you lose, you lose your...

0:10:54 > 0:10:56You hide more.

0:10:59 > 0:11:02Somebody said that women would have to marry

0:11:02 > 0:11:03so they could support the men,

0:11:03 > 0:11:06give the moral support as well as financial.

0:11:07 > 0:11:11The smartest men's student, the cleverest,

0:11:11 > 0:11:13wanted to go to bed with me,

0:11:13 > 0:11:15and I think that came above everything else.

0:11:15 > 0:11:19There were others that seemed to admire what I did.

0:11:19 > 0:11:22But the elite, no.

0:11:23 > 0:11:26And I wanted to be like them.

0:11:27 > 0:11:30And I wanted to learn how to be like them.

0:11:30 > 0:11:33You know, I wanted to be part of that.

0:11:52 > 0:11:57And how was it that you met Dad? You met him at a party, didn't you?

0:11:57 > 0:12:00Yeah, I met him. I'd seen him before.

0:12:00 > 0:12:04And we were at a party in Seymour Place,

0:12:04 > 0:12:07something to do with the Queen being crowned or something,

0:12:07 > 0:12:12and I was keen on a guy - I don't remember, John something -

0:12:12 > 0:12:15and he was there with his girlfriend.

0:12:15 > 0:12:18So I left him and I went downstairs,

0:12:18 > 0:12:23and I suddenly felt the feet coming down after me.

0:12:24 > 0:12:25It was your father.

0:12:25 > 0:12:27And he said, "Come in here."

0:12:27 > 0:12:29It was a room,

0:12:29 > 0:12:32an empty room belonging to another student,

0:12:32 > 0:12:37and he said, "Take down your knickers."

0:12:38 > 0:12:39I didn't even say, "What?"

0:12:39 > 0:12:41I just did it.

0:12:44 > 0:12:47I've done a picture of it called The Wedding Guest,

0:12:47 > 0:12:48as a matter of fact.

0:12:48 > 0:12:50That's why I can talk about it.

0:12:51 > 0:12:54Only the wedding guest is a bit older than I was,

0:12:54 > 0:12:56because I was very, very young.

0:13:01 > 0:13:05I was a virgin, so you can imagine the mess that caused.

0:13:05 > 0:13:07He could at least have taken me in a taxi,

0:13:07 > 0:13:09or hailed a taxi or something.

0:13:09 > 0:13:11Not at all. He stayed in there tidying up.

0:13:14 > 0:13:18One day, I went to the movies in Chelsea,

0:13:18 > 0:13:20one of those classic cinemas.

0:13:20 > 0:13:25I never, in my life, have left a film, ever.

0:13:25 > 0:13:31And some time during the movie, I said, "I've got to go."

0:13:31 > 0:13:34And there, in the street, was your father.

0:13:34 > 0:13:37Imagine? What a coincidence.

0:13:37 > 0:13:39It was just strange.

0:13:39 > 0:13:42And he said, "You come with me."

0:13:42 > 0:13:46He took me down to his studio by the river

0:13:46 > 0:13:51and he said, "Well, I really would like to do a picture of you."

0:13:53 > 0:13:54And it was a wonderful picture.

0:13:54 > 0:14:00I'm nude, of course, and he painted it for quite a long time.

0:14:00 > 0:14:03There were quite a lot of intermissions.

0:14:03 > 0:14:04Why? To make love?

0:14:04 > 0:14:06THEY CHUCKLE

0:14:06 > 0:14:10And I spent all my time there, you know?

0:14:10 > 0:14:11Yeah.

0:14:11 > 0:14:14- Were you a good model?- Yeah.

0:14:14 > 0:14:17I did as I was told, as always.

0:14:17 > 0:14:19I still do!

0:14:22 > 0:14:26And for him, of course, I did everything.

0:14:26 > 0:14:28Everything he wanted.

0:14:29 > 0:14:34He was the big star of the Slade when Paula was there as a student,

0:14:34 > 0:14:37cos he had a show with the sort of leading gallery of the time

0:14:37 > 0:14:40shortly after he left the Slade,

0:14:40 > 0:14:45the Hanover Gallery, so, you know, it was very glamorous for Paula.

0:14:45 > 0:14:47Did you fall for him right away?

0:14:47 > 0:14:48Yes.

0:14:48 > 0:14:50Because he was so intelligent

0:14:50 > 0:14:53and he knew so much about painting.

0:14:55 > 0:14:59# All for just the chance to love you

0:14:59 > 0:15:04# Would I love you, love you, love you

0:15:04 > 0:15:08# To take you away in my arms

0:15:08 > 0:15:12# Has always been my goal... #

0:15:14 > 0:15:17I thought he was so smart, so clever.

0:15:17 > 0:15:21He was a friend of Francis Bacon and David Sylvester.

0:15:21 > 0:15:23He drank at the Colony Room.

0:15:23 > 0:15:25He was just...

0:15:25 > 0:15:27an extraordinary man.

0:15:27 > 0:15:30And he was a very good painter.

0:15:31 > 0:15:33Although, he was married.

0:15:33 > 0:15:37His wife was a ballet dancer and he painted her very well too,

0:15:37 > 0:15:40but that didn't come into it because he lived in London

0:15:40 > 0:15:42and his wife lived in Guildford.

0:15:42 > 0:15:45Did he tell you that he was married?

0:15:45 > 0:15:47- Yeah!- Right away?

0:15:47 > 0:15:51Yeah, of course, everybody knew he was married.

0:15:51 > 0:15:53Yeah, sure.

0:15:54 > 0:15:56But she never turned up at the Slade or anything.

0:15:56 > 0:15:58She was always at home.

0:16:00 > 0:16:03I never saw her. I only met her once.

0:16:04 > 0:16:09I wasn't particularly jealous, which is strange, isn't it?

0:16:11 > 0:16:15He seemed so different, so independent from other married men.

0:16:21 > 0:16:23I had lots of abortions.

0:16:23 > 0:16:26Not just me, but every girl...

0:16:26 > 0:16:28at the Slade had them,

0:16:28 > 0:16:33because, in those days, there wasn't any contraception or anything

0:16:33 > 0:16:36and they didn't care, you know, the men didn't care

0:16:36 > 0:16:38so you just got knocked up.

0:16:42 > 0:16:43Knocked up.

0:16:43 > 0:16:47"Oh, my God, I'm knocked up again, what am I going to do?"

0:16:47 > 0:16:49"Oh, I'm going to talk to so-and-so,

0:16:49 > 0:16:54"who will ask his friend if he can spare the time

0:16:54 > 0:16:56"to come and see to you."

0:16:56 > 0:16:58"Oh, good, thank you so much."

0:16:58 > 0:17:03"You have to go to Soho and go to a pub and meet this guy -

0:17:03 > 0:17:05"he was a doctor -

0:17:05 > 0:17:08"and ask him if he can come and do it."

0:17:08 > 0:17:11"Oh, all right, then, I'll be there on Tuesday."

0:17:11 > 0:17:13And these were backstreet abortions,

0:17:13 > 0:17:15- he'd come to your house and do it?- Yeah.

0:17:19 > 0:17:21That's how it was.

0:17:22 > 0:17:24Everybody had one.

0:17:24 > 0:17:26Did you ever think, "I'll have the baby"?

0:17:26 > 0:17:29Eventually you did, but at that time, when you were young,

0:17:29 > 0:17:31did you ever think, "I'll just have the baby",

0:17:31 > 0:17:36or was it a time when it was too much of a shame?

0:17:36 > 0:17:40I didn't dare come home with a baby.

0:17:40 > 0:17:42My mother would kill me.

0:17:44 > 0:17:49If she knew I was having an affair with a married man, can you imagine?

0:17:53 > 0:17:56I never talked to my parents about it,

0:17:56 > 0:17:58because I knew that I was very young.

0:17:58 > 0:18:00If they'd found out that summer,

0:18:00 > 0:18:04they would have kept me in Portugal, and I couldn't have done that,

0:18:04 > 0:18:06because that would have been the end of me.

0:18:06 > 0:18:08I wouldn't have been an artist, you see?

0:18:08 > 0:18:11I would have been looked down on,

0:18:11 > 0:18:13patronised as a single mother,

0:18:13 > 0:18:15which now is fashionable,

0:18:15 > 0:18:18but in those days in Portugal, you can imagine.

0:18:18 > 0:18:21I would have to stay, I would never see Vic again.

0:18:21 > 0:18:24My friend Teresa was in England.

0:18:24 > 0:18:26She told Vic about it.

0:18:26 > 0:18:29He said "Why can't she have the child? Why can't she?"

0:18:29 > 0:18:32You know, it was perfectly all right for a young girl to have a child.

0:18:32 > 0:18:36And Teresa said, "Look, you have no idea what it's like in Portugal.

0:18:36 > 0:18:38"It's a very conventional society

0:18:38 > 0:18:41"and she'd be outcast", you know, and all that.

0:18:47 > 0:18:50Isn't that why you did the abortion pictures,

0:18:50 > 0:18:52to help change the law in Portugal?

0:18:52 > 0:18:55Yes. Because it was forbidden in Portugal.

0:18:55 > 0:19:00And there was a referendum for people to vote

0:19:00 > 0:19:04to have abortions legally and nobody went to vote.

0:19:04 > 0:19:08Right. That was the first referendum in 1998, wasn't it,

0:19:08 > 0:19:11when there weren't enough votes to change the law?

0:19:11 > 0:19:17Yes. I did the pictures to make people go to vote

0:19:17 > 0:19:21because I had to say, you have to have proper clinics to do it.

0:19:21 > 0:19:25The stories we heard of, you know...

0:19:25 > 0:19:29of fish wives doing it on the beach

0:19:29 > 0:19:31and I knew of a cousin of mine

0:19:31 > 0:19:34that aborted one of his girlfriend's,

0:19:34 > 0:19:36and she turned up.

0:19:36 > 0:19:38They threw her in the water and she turned up

0:19:38 > 0:19:41with her belly all full of water, you know,

0:19:41 > 0:19:43all swollen on the beach,

0:19:43 > 0:19:47and everybody knew, but he wasn't arrested.

0:19:47 > 0:19:49Everybody did it, it was just normal.

0:19:51 > 0:19:53So he killed his girlfriend, basically?

0:19:53 > 0:19:54Yes.

0:19:56 > 0:19:57Yes, he did.

0:19:57 > 0:19:58Oh, my God.

0:20:01 > 0:20:05And what was the reaction to the pictures like in Portugal?

0:20:05 > 0:20:08It was very good because they were shown at the Gulbenkian.

0:20:08 > 0:20:12And women, when they came to see it...

0:20:13 > 0:20:19..whispered and talked to each other and were surprised, you know?

0:20:19 > 0:20:22It was quite a surprise.

0:20:22 > 0:20:26I did prints too because I thought where the pictures couldn't go,

0:20:26 > 0:20:28the prints would go, you see?

0:20:28 > 0:20:31- Yes.- Because they're easier to transport.

0:20:31 > 0:20:33And did they go all over Portugal, the prints?

0:20:33 > 0:20:36I think they went to several places, yes.

0:20:37 > 0:20:40They were political things, you know,

0:20:40 > 0:20:45that I wanted to show, that it wasn't fair.

0:20:45 > 0:20:50The very harsh brutality of her pictures

0:20:50 > 0:20:54at the time and the suffering of women

0:20:54 > 0:20:57and how she expressed this,

0:20:57 > 0:21:00even if it was, for many people, in an aggressive way,

0:21:00 > 0:21:02it was an influence.

0:21:02 > 0:21:05The echo she brought indirectly,

0:21:05 > 0:21:08even if you liked the pictures or if you didn't like the pictures,

0:21:08 > 0:21:12was a tremendous way to really show

0:21:12 > 0:21:17that we cannot go on with this kind of stuff any more.

0:21:17 > 0:21:20And then they had another referendum in 2007

0:21:20 > 0:21:23and voted in favour of abortion, didn't they?

0:21:23 > 0:21:25Yes.

0:21:26 > 0:21:28It was actually quite influential

0:21:28 > 0:21:31and a lot of people were very cross at her,

0:21:31 > 0:21:34those of them who were for the preservation...

0:21:34 > 0:21:37Against abortion, and they were very mad at her,

0:21:37 > 0:21:41because they realised that she had touched a nerve.

0:21:44 > 0:21:50The pain, the physical pain and the erotic...

0:21:50 > 0:21:53Those girls in the pictures are in the position

0:21:53 > 0:21:56which could be either for penetration

0:21:56 > 0:22:00of some kind of abortionist's hand...

0:22:01 > 0:22:03..or penetration from her lover,

0:22:03 > 0:22:06one or the other, they were both equal.

0:22:06 > 0:22:10And the two things are deeply tied in those pictures

0:22:10 > 0:22:13and they mean a great deal to me.

0:22:13 > 0:22:16I think it's the best thing I've ever done,

0:22:16 > 0:22:19because they're totally true.

0:22:19 > 0:22:23The actual resolve to survive,

0:22:23 > 0:22:25the kind of defiance

0:22:25 > 0:22:29and the fact that you never feel guilt, ever.

0:22:29 > 0:22:34And you don't, because guilt doesn't come into it.

0:22:34 > 0:22:36It's not important. It's a form of survival.

0:22:36 > 0:22:39It's the only thing that I will fight for,

0:22:39 > 0:22:43because I think that it's atrocious that it's forbidden, I really do.

0:22:43 > 0:22:47They have no idea, because it will go on always, you see, always.

0:22:53 > 0:22:59Sacrifice is something she uses to prove her love, somehow.

0:22:59 > 0:23:01"Look how much I love you,

0:23:01 > 0:23:03"I will do anything for you.

0:23:03 > 0:23:05"I will be butchered,

0:23:05 > 0:23:07"I will get knocked up over and over again.

0:23:07 > 0:23:11"I'll go through absolutely anything, this is my love.

0:23:11 > 0:23:14"And you screw me, that is your love."

0:23:16 > 0:23:20When I got pregnant with Cassie,

0:23:20 > 0:23:25I decided, "This time, I'm not going to have an abortion."

0:23:27 > 0:23:29And I was alone in the house...

0:23:31 > 0:23:33..and Vic rang me up...

0:23:34 > 0:23:36..and said to me,

0:23:36 > 0:23:39"I'm afraid I'm going back to my wife."

0:23:39 > 0:23:42Is this because he knew you were pregnant?

0:23:42 > 0:23:44Yes, he knew I was pregnant, yes.

0:23:44 > 0:23:49And the next thing I did was to ring up my dad.

0:23:49 > 0:23:52And he said, "Don't worry, I'll be there in two days,

0:23:52 > 0:23:55"and I'll bring you back with me."

0:23:55 > 0:23:59And he did. In two days, he was in England from Portugal,

0:23:59 > 0:24:03driving like anything and I had to tell him.

0:24:03 > 0:24:04We went to Soho.

0:24:04 > 0:24:09We walked around and he said, "Well, don't worry,

0:24:09 > 0:24:11"I'll take you back to Portugal.

0:24:11 > 0:24:14"We're going to buy some clothes because you're fat."

0:24:14 > 0:24:18And he got me in the car...

0:24:18 > 0:24:22and we spent all the way back, playing opera...

0:24:22 > 0:24:25and eating wonderfully,

0:24:25 > 0:24:27stopping at nice hotels.

0:24:28 > 0:24:31We got there and he said,

0:24:31 > 0:24:33"Don't worry about your mother,

0:24:33 > 0:24:37"I've taken her to the beach and she screamed all she could."

0:24:41 > 0:24:45And next thing I knew, Cassie was born.

0:24:45 > 0:24:48What was it like, suddenly being a mum?

0:24:48 > 0:24:50After you had had all those abortions

0:24:50 > 0:24:53and you were back in Portugal alone with a daughter,

0:24:53 > 0:24:55what was that like?

0:24:55 > 0:24:58Well, I was a bit scared at first,

0:24:58 > 0:25:00that people would treat me very badly,

0:25:00 > 0:25:04and humiliate me, but in fact they didn't.

0:25:04 > 0:25:07Almost like village people, they accepted it.

0:25:07 > 0:25:10It was very, very, very common, but not in the middle-classes.

0:25:10 > 0:25:14- No.- And my mother, I think, must have been pretty distraught.

0:25:18 > 0:25:22'Dad told me that being thought of as a future star of the art world

0:25:22 > 0:25:26'couldn't make up for feeling hungry every day.

0:25:26 > 0:25:29'He had to rely on his friend Francis Bacon to buy him breakfast,

0:25:29 > 0:25:32'often the only meal of the day,

0:25:32 > 0:25:34'and he said he couldn't stop thinking about Mum

0:25:34 > 0:25:37'and the daughter he didn't know.'

0:25:37 > 0:25:40So when did Dad eventually leave his wife?

0:25:40 > 0:25:44Oh, weeks later, weeks later.

0:25:44 > 0:25:49He wrote to my father and my father wrote back and said, "Come over."

0:25:49 > 0:25:51Just like that.

0:26:06 > 0:26:08He's a person that knew my work,

0:26:08 > 0:26:13and certainly better than anybody else in the world.

0:26:13 > 0:26:16And he could tell what I was about

0:26:16 > 0:26:18just from looking at the work, really.

0:26:18 > 0:26:21And there's nothing more special than that.

0:26:21 > 0:26:23I mean if your work, if there is somebody

0:26:23 > 0:26:25that actually understands your work really well,

0:26:25 > 0:26:28then that person will understand you really well.

0:26:31 > 0:26:35Well, we're living in this house that had been my grandparents' house

0:26:35 > 0:26:37that I loved.

0:26:37 > 0:26:40It was really marvellous to be there all year round.

0:26:43 > 0:26:47When we got married, it was... I was so delighted.

0:26:47 > 0:26:50My work became very exuberant...

0:26:51 > 0:26:57..and very gutsy then, and I was very interested in a kind of energy.

0:26:57 > 0:26:59So I was able to play again.

0:26:59 > 0:27:02I felt that I was playing with all these paints

0:27:02 > 0:27:05and it was a very exciting time for me.

0:27:09 > 0:27:11Everything became very visceral and sexual,

0:27:11 > 0:27:14and being pregnant, all stuffed up with things.

0:27:14 > 0:27:19Either sex things or babies or food going in the other end!

0:27:29 > 0:27:33The act of giving birth seemed to me to be separate

0:27:33 > 0:27:36from the child being born,

0:27:36 > 0:27:40and it had something to do with my own body and with Vic.

0:27:41 > 0:27:45The outcome of it, which was the children,

0:27:45 > 0:27:49were the outcome of it, not what it was for.

0:27:49 > 0:27:52It was like having a great big screw, that's what it was.

0:27:52 > 0:27:54That's what it was like.

0:27:54 > 0:27:57A kind of general feeling

0:27:57 > 0:28:01of sexuality and pain joined up together,

0:28:01 > 0:28:05which was very interesting.

0:28:18 > 0:28:20Dad was THE artist.

0:28:20 > 0:28:22He was the main artist, he was the better known.

0:28:22 > 0:28:28Mum was younger and he wasn't her tutor in any way,

0:28:28 > 0:28:31he didn't tell her what to do, he just supported her.

0:28:31 > 0:28:36Where they did affect each other, is that they painted in the adega.

0:28:36 > 0:28:38She was on one side, he was on the other,

0:28:38 > 0:28:41there was just a screen of rush matting that hung between the two.

0:28:41 > 0:28:44But Mum just painted and painted and painted,

0:28:44 > 0:28:46the productivity was just endless.

0:28:46 > 0:28:49And on the other side of the screen, Dad couldn't work.

0:28:49 > 0:28:53The critical voice in his head was catastrophic.

0:28:53 > 0:28:55Completely crippled him.

0:28:55 > 0:28:58The only reason some of the paintings in this room survive

0:28:58 > 0:29:00is because Baba would steal them.

0:29:00 > 0:29:02"Oh, this looks nice. I'll have it for my living room!"

0:29:02 > 0:29:04You know, just take them away,

0:29:04 > 0:29:06or else they would have been painted over.

0:30:11 > 0:30:13MUSIC: Naufragio by Amalia Rodrigues

0:30:28 > 0:30:32We had a dictator called Salazar.

0:30:32 > 0:30:37And I was painting a picture against Salazar,

0:30:37 > 0:30:41which is called, Salazar a Vomitar a Patria.

0:30:41 > 0:30:43He's vomiting the nation.

0:30:43 > 0:30:49And as I was painting it, I began to feel sorry for him.

0:30:49 > 0:30:53You felt sorry for the dictator, Salazar?

0:30:53 > 0:30:54Why?

0:30:56 > 0:30:57I don't know.

0:30:57 > 0:31:00It's one thing that happens in pictures,

0:31:00 > 0:31:03- you never know what you're going to feel about them, you know?- Yeah.

0:31:03 > 0:31:07Of course, I didn't want to feel sorry for him, for heaven's sake,

0:31:07 > 0:31:10he was a brute - a violent and sinister man.

0:31:10 > 0:31:12Do you think that's what pictures do,

0:31:12 > 0:31:16that they help you understand how you feel about something?

0:31:16 > 0:31:18I think they certainly...

0:31:19 > 0:31:22..manage to change your feelings.

0:31:26 > 0:31:29I felt a feeling for him that wasn't allowed,

0:31:29 > 0:31:33and it certainly wasn't even, in real life, true.

0:31:33 > 0:31:35But in the picture, it was allowed.

0:31:35 > 0:31:38So the picture actually allows you

0:31:38 > 0:31:41to feel all sorts of forbidden things,

0:31:41 > 0:31:43and that is why you do pictures,

0:31:43 > 0:31:48because you get at things that you didn't realise, actually,

0:31:48 > 0:31:51and you're allowed to do outrageous thing, and everything.

0:31:59 > 0:32:03I looked at those old magazines of Blanco y Negro

0:32:03 > 0:32:06that my grandfather had.

0:32:06 > 0:32:10And I loved those because they had lots of people hitting people.

0:32:10 > 0:32:15All cartoons, I loved cartoons, old cartoons,

0:32:15 > 0:32:16because they were clear, the lines,

0:32:16 > 0:32:20you could tell what they were doing and they were funny.

0:32:20 > 0:32:24I started using the books, by tearing them up, you know,

0:32:24 > 0:32:26and do what's called collages.

0:32:29 > 0:32:32It was all a means to an ends, that is to say

0:32:32 > 0:32:37it was all a way of discovering, in there, a figure,

0:32:37 > 0:32:40the sensual pleasure, that's what it is.

0:32:40 > 0:32:42A sensual pleasure of cutting.

0:32:44 > 0:32:47I had so many dolls when I was little

0:32:47 > 0:32:51and this particular baby doll felt like flesh.

0:32:51 > 0:32:52It was supposed to.

0:32:52 > 0:32:57I remember saying, "Look at this little baby, isn't it cute, Mum?"

0:32:57 > 0:33:01And I remember then going and then cutting all of its fingers off.

0:33:02 > 0:33:06Then I cried apparently, so my mother says, after having done it.

0:33:06 > 0:33:08My mother used to say,

0:33:08 > 0:33:11"You do things, and then you say you're sorry afterwards."

0:33:11 > 0:33:13She said it to me just before she died.

0:33:13 > 0:33:17But my pictures, meaning, "Well, of course you go and do these things

0:33:17 > 0:33:21"and then you worry about it and then you reflected."

0:33:25 > 0:33:29And the collages became...

0:33:29 > 0:33:35associated to the politics of what was going on in the country.

0:33:35 > 0:33:39For instance, they were all fighting the Angolans.

0:33:39 > 0:33:44I thought of Angola. A picture I did, quite long.

0:33:44 > 0:33:45I called it...

0:33:53 > 0:33:57Because that's what they were doing there, in the time of Salazar.

0:33:59 > 0:34:02The Portuguese establishment was horrified,

0:34:02 > 0:34:04but impressed as hell.

0:34:04 > 0:34:07They tried to sort of play her down, saying,

0:34:07 > 0:34:09"Oh, she creates some monsters.

0:34:09 > 0:34:11"Yes, I'm sure it's very good,

0:34:11 > 0:34:13"but I couldn't live with that stuff."

0:34:13 > 0:34:18I'm surprised she was not bothered directly by the establishment.

0:34:18 > 0:34:21- And by the ministry for information. - Yes.

0:34:21 > 0:34:25Why do you think they didn't harass her more?

0:34:25 > 0:34:28I don't know. To tell you the truth, that's a mystery. I don't know.

0:34:28 > 0:34:32I think there is probably an element of respect,

0:34:32 > 0:34:35but their respect is not genuine respect as we understand it,

0:34:35 > 0:34:37it is something else.

0:34:37 > 0:34:39"If we interfere with this person,

0:34:39 > 0:34:42"goodness knows what's going to happen."

0:34:42 > 0:34:45You weren't afraid that the government would come after you?

0:34:45 > 0:34:47- No.- Why not?

0:34:47 > 0:34:50I wasn't afraid.

0:34:50 > 0:34:54Oh, if I was taken to court, I'd explain to them what happens...

0:34:54 > 0:34:56and tell them what goes on.

0:34:56 > 0:34:58How women suffer. It's totally unfair.

0:35:01 > 0:35:03The artists,

0:35:03 > 0:35:09they formed a way in which many kind of messages were put across.

0:35:09 > 0:35:12Don't forget we had a one-party system,

0:35:12 > 0:35:14we had a terrible censorship,

0:35:14 > 0:35:17there was no liberty of the press, there was no liberty at all.

0:35:17 > 0:35:20We had a secret police, and we were a blocked country

0:35:20 > 0:35:24so the way in which musicians, painters,

0:35:24 > 0:35:27sculptors expressed themselves,

0:35:27 > 0:35:30it was easier to pass that message

0:35:30 > 0:35:34because censors were not so attentive to that kind of thing.

0:35:36 > 0:35:39Although Dad wasn't painting very much,

0:35:39 > 0:35:41he helped Mum with her work,

0:35:41 > 0:35:44not only in the studio but also by writing about it.

0:35:44 > 0:35:48I remember him talking about incredibly complex things

0:35:48 > 0:35:51in a way that even I, as a child, could understand.

0:35:51 > 0:35:54And by being able to explain to Mum,

0:35:54 > 0:35:56what otherwise came unconsciously to her,

0:35:56 > 0:36:00he gave her the courage to take bigger risks.

0:36:00 > 0:36:03It wasn't like, you know, some men are jealous of their wives,

0:36:03 > 0:36:05he never was.

0:36:23 > 0:36:28"The time of the day in that place, of that climate,

0:36:28 > 0:36:31"has the presence of an animal,

0:36:31 > 0:36:36"a heavy, uneasy, sun-baked thing

0:36:36 > 0:36:40"which twitters and whines in one's ear.

0:36:40 > 0:36:46"One must tease it, humiliate it, gouge it, pity it.

0:36:46 > 0:36:50"The picture becomes its face.

0:36:50 > 0:36:53"If it can be described, it can be forgiven

0:36:53 > 0:36:55"for being what it is,

0:36:55 > 0:36:57"and made lovable, even.

0:36:57 > 0:37:03"Such creatures fawning, violent, lethargic, illusive,

0:37:03 > 0:37:08"rush about or wander, lost, singly,

0:37:08 > 0:37:10"and even in packs.

0:37:10 > 0:37:14"For Paula, painting is trapping them, breaking them,

0:37:14 > 0:37:17"putting on brands and hanging them,

0:37:17 > 0:37:19"groomed and pampered on the wall."

0:37:21 > 0:37:24It's really very, very good, this.

0:37:24 > 0:37:25This is... This...

0:37:25 > 0:37:29It need not...no-one else to write after this.

0:37:30 > 0:37:33This is fabulous.

0:37:33 > 0:37:35And it's just true.

0:37:43 > 0:37:46Then Vicky came along, right?

0:37:46 > 0:37:48Yes.

0:37:48 > 0:37:50And then there was me.

0:37:53 > 0:37:56And suddenly you had a big family.

0:37:57 > 0:38:02And you continued making political pictures like The Dogs At Barcelona.

0:38:02 > 0:38:05That's a wonderful picture, one of my best pictures.

0:38:05 > 0:38:08It's a true story.

0:38:08 > 0:38:11In Barcelona, the Franco regime,

0:38:11 > 0:38:14they wanted to poison the stray dogs,

0:38:14 > 0:38:19and they threw meat into the streets that was poisoned,

0:38:19 > 0:38:21and dogs ate them

0:38:21 > 0:38:23and they all died.

0:38:23 > 0:38:26And even starving people, who didn't realise, and kids

0:38:26 > 0:38:29- picked it up and ate it, right? - It was indiscriminate.

0:38:29 > 0:38:33I thought it was like Portugal, you see, the indiscriminate killing.

0:38:33 > 0:38:36But...I was doing this picture.

0:38:36 > 0:38:37I did all this

0:38:37 > 0:38:40but I didn't know what to put up here.

0:38:40 > 0:38:45And then I went downstairs and we'd met recently a beautiful girl,

0:38:45 > 0:38:49she looked like Claudia Cardinale, she was Italian,

0:38:49 > 0:38:51and Dad really liked her, etc.

0:38:51 > 0:38:57And I went down to the living room and there was Dad snogging her.

0:38:57 > 0:39:00He was kissing this girl.

0:39:00 > 0:39:03I just ran away, I didn't say anything.

0:39:03 > 0:39:07I ran to my best friend and I was crying.

0:39:07 > 0:39:11I said, "Oh, Vic was snogging with this woman."

0:39:11 > 0:39:15And lo and behold, she started crying too.

0:39:15 > 0:39:17I was very surprised.

0:39:17 > 0:39:20Afterwards, I knew that she had been shagging Dad

0:39:20 > 0:39:24and wanted him to leave me to go and live with her.

0:39:25 > 0:39:27She was seeing him too?

0:39:27 > 0:39:29She was in love with Dad.

0:39:29 > 0:39:31And she...

0:39:31 > 0:39:34But I had something to put on here,

0:39:34 > 0:39:38which was the figure of the woman that he was snogging.

0:39:38 > 0:39:40I put it up here with a tongue hanging out.

0:39:40 > 0:39:43It doesn't look like a tongue, it looks like a willy.

0:39:43 > 0:39:46And it was her figure, this monstrous creature there.

0:39:46 > 0:39:50So she becomes the poison, in a way?

0:39:50 > 0:39:56Yeah, she becomes the lewd monster with the tongue hanging out.

0:39:56 > 0:40:00And then, interestingly, Dad wrote about this picture

0:40:00 > 0:40:02for your exhibition in 1965,

0:40:02 > 0:40:05that when the picture had reached the press, there was a girl

0:40:05 > 0:40:08that was threatening the security of the family,

0:40:08 > 0:40:11that the picture, itself, was a way of you figuring out

0:40:11 > 0:40:15what you thought about yourself and the world and him and everything.

0:40:15 > 0:40:17- You poured it all into this picture? - Absolutely.

0:40:18 > 0:40:20That is always the case.

0:40:20 > 0:40:22Yes.

0:40:22 > 0:40:24And it was right.

0:40:46 > 0:40:49Obviously, I was terribly jealous.

0:40:49 > 0:40:51I was desperately jealous.

0:40:51 > 0:40:55Sick with jealousy, when I found out.

0:40:55 > 0:40:57Sick. Sick with it, when he thought

0:40:57 > 0:41:01that he should be allowed to do this and that, you know.

0:41:04 > 0:41:06I never said anything

0:41:06 > 0:41:11because I never, never want to put him off.

0:41:11 > 0:41:15Because if I become demanding or something like that, he might go.

0:41:15 > 0:41:17I just was there.

0:41:17 > 0:41:22I was really just some kind of passive thing there for his use.

0:41:22 > 0:41:25But never mind because later on in the work,

0:41:25 > 0:41:28I could do something about it.

0:41:28 > 0:41:31But personally, it's always difficult

0:41:31 > 0:41:33to do things on a personal nature.

0:41:33 > 0:41:38It is always easier to do it in pictures than to do it personally.

0:41:38 > 0:41:41You know, one's so inhibited.

0:41:42 > 0:41:45I always thought he might leave...

0:41:46 > 0:41:51..but what had happened was that I tried not to care so much.

0:41:51 > 0:41:55When he had his first heart attack, which he had very young...

0:41:57 > 0:42:02..32, or something, I realised that I couldn't survive.

0:42:02 > 0:42:04I'd better do something,

0:42:04 > 0:42:06perhaps be interested in other men or something,

0:42:06 > 0:42:09because if he died, I wouldn't survive.

0:42:09 > 0:42:12And I did. I did.

0:42:12 > 0:42:16And it was terrible then, because it was like a kind of amputation.

0:42:16 > 0:42:21We were so tied. I was so tied to him, so bound to him.

0:42:23 > 0:42:27MUSIC: Gimme Some Lovin' by Spencer Davis Group

0:42:45 > 0:42:46# Hey!

0:42:48 > 0:42:51# Well, my temperature's rising got my feet on the floor

0:42:51 > 0:42:55# Crazy people rocking cos they want to some more

0:42:55 > 0:42:57# Let me in, baby I don't know what you got

0:42:57 > 0:43:00# But you better take it easy Cos this place is hot

0:43:00 > 0:43:03# And I'm so glad we made it

0:43:04 > 0:43:06# So glad we made it

0:43:06 > 0:43:11# But won't you give me some lovin'?

0:43:11 > 0:43:14# Gimme some lovin'

0:43:14 > 0:43:17# Gimme some lovin' every day

0:43:33 > 0:43:34# Hey! #

0:43:34 > 0:43:38The '60s, the 1960s - very, very different.

0:43:38 > 0:43:40Everybody was fucking around.

0:43:43 > 0:43:44It wasn't...

0:43:44 > 0:43:47I had a lover. Yes, I had a lover.

0:43:47 > 0:43:50I had several, as a matter of fact,

0:43:50 > 0:43:53but it was normal,

0:43:53 > 0:43:55as my husband did.

0:43:55 > 0:43:57He had them as well, lots of them.

0:43:57 > 0:44:00That painting, The Hangman, that's her getting her revenge

0:44:00 > 0:44:04on all her various lovers. Yeah, she thought,

0:44:04 > 0:44:05"I can kill them in my painting."

0:44:05 > 0:44:09Either because they were wary of continuing a relationship

0:44:09 > 0:44:11where they also liked the husband,

0:44:11 > 0:44:15or maybe it was not something that they wanted to continue.

0:44:15 > 0:44:18They probably knew Dad,

0:44:18 > 0:44:20so it was probably a bit awkward.

0:44:20 > 0:44:23If she can face things head-on in the work

0:44:23 > 0:44:28and she uses everything, and there's always sex in there.

0:44:28 > 0:44:29Everything's erotic.

0:44:29 > 0:44:32Work itself is erotic.

0:44:32 > 0:44:38Doing work, that is to say drawing, is an erotic activity...

0:44:40 > 0:44:41..actually.

0:44:42 > 0:44:46She was so physically glamorous or seemed to be as a small child,

0:44:46 > 0:44:48that you could only sort of stand

0:44:48 > 0:44:50in the corner of the room and watch her,

0:44:50 > 0:44:53you know, dressing up to go out or putting on her make-up or whatever,

0:44:53 > 0:44:55and she was just so beautiful.

0:44:55 > 0:44:58She was sort of like a film star.

0:44:58 > 0:44:59I think I always felt

0:44:59 > 0:45:04like we weren't really the main story, you know?!

0:45:04 > 0:45:07We were the kind of bit-part players.

0:45:07 > 0:45:09We were the subplot, very much a subplot.

0:45:11 > 0:45:15It was brush or baby - that was always the case.

0:45:15 > 0:45:18Doing pictures has nothing to do with having children.

0:45:18 > 0:45:21You do the pictures, you have the children.

0:45:21 > 0:45:23It's not part of the same life.

0:45:25 > 0:45:27Painting pictures is like being a man, really.

0:45:27 > 0:45:31It's the part of you that's the man.

0:45:31 > 0:45:35Even the way you stand or sit, confronting the work like a man

0:45:35 > 0:45:39and it has to do with the aggressive part.

0:45:39 > 0:45:41It has the kind of push, the thrust,

0:45:41 > 0:45:43which you must normally associate

0:45:43 > 0:45:45with what being a man is, I don't know,

0:45:45 > 0:45:48but I always thought that this kind of having babies,

0:45:48 > 0:45:50playing at house,

0:45:50 > 0:45:54it's like when you're little and you pretend cooking supper,

0:45:54 > 0:45:57that sort of thing, there was a sort of play acting element in it

0:45:57 > 0:46:00whilst when you were, like, doing a picture,

0:46:00 > 0:46:03you were much more yourself.

0:46:03 > 0:46:06I love my children, I'm not saying that, I do,

0:46:06 > 0:46:07but it's just different.

0:46:07 > 0:46:09They were never in the studio.

0:46:09 > 0:46:13In Portugal, they were never allowed to come into the studio, never.

0:46:15 > 0:46:19She is her work and her work is her.

0:46:19 > 0:46:22There is no way to extricate yourself from that

0:46:22 > 0:46:27and switch off and be a mother, a lover, a friend.

0:46:29 > 0:46:32There was something that wasn't quite reachable with Mum.

0:46:32 > 0:46:36So a lot of early childhood memories are about

0:46:36 > 0:46:39wanting something I couldn't get.

0:46:39 > 0:46:41Somehow I didn't feel the same about Dad,

0:46:41 > 0:46:46because, I don't know, maybe he just seemed to be more available somehow.

0:46:46 > 0:46:47Mum was really...

0:46:47 > 0:46:51There was always some sort of wall between her and me

0:46:51 > 0:46:55and probably all of us, I don't know.

0:46:55 > 0:46:57Dad was more real, somehow.

0:46:59 > 0:47:03It's interesting that there is so much emotion and power

0:47:03 > 0:47:07and intensity in your pictures,

0:47:07 > 0:47:10and yet in your personal life,

0:47:10 > 0:47:15you're quite quiet and private and closed.

0:47:15 > 0:47:16- Yes.- Would you say?

0:47:16 > 0:47:19- Yes.- Shy?

0:47:19 > 0:47:22I'm shy. I'm shy. I never...

0:47:22 > 0:47:25When Dad would be speaking with his friends,

0:47:25 > 0:47:27I remember once...

0:47:28 > 0:47:32..people sitting around the fire and he was talking,

0:47:32 > 0:47:35talking about art is this, that, the other.

0:47:35 > 0:47:36I was just listening.

0:47:36 > 0:47:40And suddenly he asked me, "What do you think?"

0:47:40 > 0:47:45I tell you, I only wish the floor had opened out and swallowed me up.

0:47:45 > 0:47:51I was so shy and so embarrassed that I had been asked what I think.

0:47:51 > 0:47:53I didn't say anything.

0:47:55 > 0:47:59So in a way you put all of those feelings into your pictures?

0:47:59 > 0:48:02- Yes. In my pictures, I could do anything.- Yeah.

0:48:04 > 0:48:06If she hadn't been so shy,

0:48:06 > 0:48:08if she had been able to talk about her work,

0:48:08 > 0:48:12if she had been busting balls, or saying no, ever,

0:48:12 > 0:48:14then, probably, she wouldn't have needed to get it out

0:48:14 > 0:48:16in her painting, you know?

0:48:21 > 0:48:23Was the shyness actually a symptom of depression?

0:48:23 > 0:48:26I mean, did you always suffer from depression?

0:48:26 > 0:48:28- I always suffered from depression. - Even as a little girl?

0:48:28 > 0:48:31Yes, I did. Yes, I remember.

0:48:31 > 0:48:35I remember being frightened of everything,

0:48:35 > 0:48:37being frightened of being in the garden,

0:48:37 > 0:48:41being frightened of playing with Tony,

0:48:41 > 0:48:43a little boy that was next door.

0:48:43 > 0:48:46Alfredo, my teacher, who came to teach me at home,

0:48:46 > 0:48:50a Portuguese teacher, I was terrified of him.

0:48:50 > 0:48:52I was afraid of everything.

0:48:52 > 0:48:55It's a wonder that I actually came to the Slade, but I did.

0:48:55 > 0:48:59When you'd get depressed, did it stop you from working?

0:48:59 > 0:49:02No, no. Working was good for it.

0:49:02 > 0:49:03Working helped.

0:49:05 > 0:49:08You told me that when you were having a particularly bad depression

0:49:08 > 0:49:11in 2007, you did a series of pictures

0:49:11 > 0:49:15which you locked away in a drawer and haven't seen since?

0:49:15 > 0:49:16Yeah...

0:49:27 > 0:49:30Lila stands in for me.

0:49:30 > 0:49:31She's always...

0:49:31 > 0:49:33She's me, really.

0:49:35 > 0:49:37That's how I was feeling.

0:49:37 > 0:49:41So that when you get depressed, it feels like your tied up?

0:49:41 > 0:49:42Yes.

0:49:42 > 0:49:46Well, you're kind of stuck, really,

0:49:46 > 0:49:49and you hold on to things that make you more stuck.

0:49:49 > 0:49:53Like she's holding this rubber thing, you see?

0:49:53 > 0:49:56You hold on to the wrong things, thinking they will help,

0:49:56 > 0:49:59- but on the contrary?- Yes, exactly.

0:49:59 > 0:50:01On the contrary.

0:50:03 > 0:50:04I don't know good from bad.

0:50:06 > 0:50:09And do you feel that you drew your way out of your depression?

0:50:09 > 0:50:11It helped a little.

0:50:11 > 0:50:13But you did say that when you finished them

0:50:13 > 0:50:15that it helped you a lot.

0:50:15 > 0:50:16Did I? Yeah?

0:50:18 > 0:50:23But you've kept them and you won't show them, sort of like your secret?

0:50:23 > 0:50:26They were to be put in a drawer and never seen again.

0:50:26 > 0:50:27Why, do you think?

0:50:27 > 0:50:30Because I was ashamed of them...

0:50:30 > 0:50:32of being so depressed.

0:50:34 > 0:50:37MUSIC: As Penas by Amalia Rodrigues

0:50:55 > 0:50:57'66 was the year that Dad

0:50:57 > 0:50:59got officially diagnosed with MS.

0:51:01 > 0:51:06It only sunk in as Dad started getting more and more...

0:51:06 > 0:51:11incapacitated. You know, he had the stick and then he had crutches.

0:51:11 > 0:51:14And Mum went into a massive depression.

0:51:14 > 0:51:16I mean, she just kind of shut down.

0:51:22 > 0:51:24I mean you can only take things...

0:51:24 > 0:51:26Sometimes it takes a long time

0:51:26 > 0:51:31before you can actually accept things and take them on board.

0:51:31 > 0:51:33And I think this was so with his illness, really.

0:51:40 > 0:51:42I remember you feeling helpless.

0:51:42 > 0:51:44I remember you drinking a lot.

0:51:44 > 0:51:45Yes, I drank a lot.

0:51:45 > 0:51:46It's true.

0:51:46 > 0:51:48I used to drink a lot.

0:51:48 > 0:51:49Always red wine.

0:51:49 > 0:51:52So much so, that my father said,

0:51:52 > 0:51:54"Look, I must tell you this,

0:51:54 > 0:51:58"drop the bottle and pick up the brush."

0:51:58 > 0:51:59He was worried.

0:52:03 > 0:52:06When he died, I took him to hospital.

0:52:06 > 0:52:08I watched him die.

0:52:17 > 0:52:18Just before he died,

0:52:18 > 0:52:21my grandfather told Mum that she should sell

0:52:21 > 0:52:24his electronics business and move to London.

0:52:24 > 0:52:28But I remember Dad thinking this was his chance to pay the family back

0:52:28 > 0:52:31so he turned himself into a businessman,

0:52:31 > 0:52:33started wearing a suit and convinced everyone

0:52:33 > 0:52:36that, he, a painter with limited Portuguese,

0:52:36 > 0:52:38should take over my grandfather's specialist

0:52:38 > 0:52:40electrical engineering factory.

0:52:43 > 0:52:45It was a disaster.

0:52:45 > 0:52:47It was my fault. I should have stopped him.

0:52:49 > 0:52:50But I didn't.

0:52:51 > 0:52:54Well, you didn't stand up to Dad very often, though, did you?

0:52:54 > 0:52:56- Never.- You never stood up to him.

0:52:56 > 0:52:59- So if he wanted to do something... - He'd do it.

0:53:01 > 0:53:04He was really suffering. He was suffering from the paralysis.

0:53:04 > 0:53:06The business was going tits-up.

0:53:06 > 0:53:08There was no money.

0:53:08 > 0:53:10Everything was mortgaged because of him.

0:53:10 > 0:53:13So, it's not as if this happened to Dad,

0:53:13 > 0:53:15he caused this to happen.

0:53:15 > 0:53:18He instigated it, he drove it forward.

0:53:18 > 0:53:19He was going to make it good,

0:53:19 > 0:53:22and actually, he was going to lose everything.

0:53:23 > 0:53:25We lost everything.

0:53:25 > 0:53:27We lost the Quinta, we lost everything.

0:53:30 > 0:53:32Everything.

0:53:39 > 0:53:41So, when we came to live in London,

0:53:41 > 0:53:43we were completely broke, weren't we?

0:53:43 > 0:53:44Yes.

0:53:48 > 0:53:51MUSIC: Who Knows Where The Time Goes? by Fairport Convention

0:53:53 > 0:53:58# Across the evening sky

0:53:58 > 0:54:04# All the birds are leaving

0:54:07 > 0:54:10# But how can they know

0:54:11 > 0:54:16# It's time for them to go?

0:54:19 > 0:54:24# Before the winter fire... #

0:54:24 > 0:54:26I had a dealer in Portugal

0:54:26 > 0:54:29who used to come and take away everything

0:54:29 > 0:54:31I had on the floor of my studio,

0:54:31 > 0:54:36and just the crappiest drawing, he took everything away and sold it.

0:54:36 > 0:54:38- Did he give you good money? - Well, he cheated.

0:54:38 > 0:54:43He said the pictures sold for less money than they were.

0:54:43 > 0:54:45And people used to say to me,

0:54:45 > 0:54:47"Oh, your pictures are so expensive",

0:54:47 > 0:54:53but I didn't think so, because I didn't get that kind of money.

0:54:53 > 0:54:55Actually, being an artist during those years,

0:54:55 > 0:55:00you did not expect to make money, not like you might do nowadays.

0:55:00 > 0:55:03You didn't expect to be able to live off being an artist.

0:55:03 > 0:55:08Between 1966 and 1979...

0:55:08 > 0:55:10it was treading-water time.

0:55:10 > 0:55:13Something must have got stuck.

0:55:13 > 0:55:16I couldn't move on and I couldn't do things properly.

0:55:16 > 0:55:19Images began to be influenced by pop art,

0:55:19 > 0:55:24so I would draw things much more naturalistic,

0:55:24 > 0:55:26out of comic books and things and cut them up...

0:55:27 > 0:55:31..and the work went really badly downhill.

0:55:35 > 0:55:38The world seemed to lose its reality.

0:55:38 > 0:55:42My home, everything became a place you looked at,

0:55:42 > 0:55:45not a place that you didn't take notice of.

0:55:45 > 0:55:48That's what places are when they're real - you don't notice them.

0:55:48 > 0:55:52It became a place I saw and walked in.

0:55:52 > 0:55:55And then all this business with lawyers and Portugal and everything,

0:55:55 > 0:55:57it was just incredible. It wasn't real.

0:55:57 > 0:56:00The pictures suffer if it's like that.

0:56:00 > 0:56:02You couldn't make anything real.

0:56:03 > 0:56:08Dr Hoerder recommended I go to see a shrink,

0:56:08 > 0:56:11because I was in a very bad way.

0:56:11 > 0:56:15He said, "I think she must see somebody, she's not very well."

0:56:15 > 0:56:18And then, of course, I had a Jungian analyst.

0:56:21 > 0:56:22He helped a lot.

0:56:38 > 0:56:43And it was my Jungian therapy that I started in 1973,

0:56:43 > 0:56:46and that awakened a lot of need

0:56:46 > 0:56:50for thinking that it was terribly important to go to the...

0:56:50 > 0:56:55some kind of source, imaginative source.

0:56:55 > 0:56:57The imaginative source that gave images

0:56:57 > 0:57:01to what we've got inside but we don't know what it is.

0:57:02 > 0:57:04And through the fairytales and folk tales,

0:57:04 > 0:57:07there seemed to be a pretty good picture.

0:57:07 > 0:57:10Sometimes there's God, you know,

0:57:10 > 0:57:12and sometimes there's the folk tales.

0:57:12 > 0:57:14All these things are the same thing,

0:57:14 > 0:57:16that is to say they all give a reflection

0:57:16 > 0:57:19of what the mind is and the imagination is.

0:57:24 > 0:57:25It was also, I think,

0:57:25 > 0:57:29possibly a reaction against the disruption in our lives,

0:57:29 > 0:57:32with the business and all that side of living I hated.

0:57:36 > 0:57:41We had terrible difficulties until I wrote to the Gulbenkian.

0:57:42 > 0:57:46I said, "Look, I need a grant

0:57:46 > 0:57:50"but I don't know what I'm going to have a grant for,

0:57:50 > 0:57:52"I just have no money."

0:57:52 > 0:57:57They said to me, "Well, we'll give you a grant,

0:57:57 > 0:57:59"you go and do whatever you like",

0:57:59 > 0:58:02and that's when I went to the British Museum,

0:58:02 > 0:58:05in that round room as it was years ago,

0:58:05 > 0:58:08and I began to read fairy stories.

0:58:11 > 0:58:14And I did all these drawings,

0:58:14 > 0:58:18which I then gave to the Gulbenkian thanking them for the grant.

0:58:18 > 0:58:23I read Italian stories, French stories, Portuguese stories,

0:58:23 > 0:58:27the Portuguese stories are the most cruel and the most close to me.

0:58:33 > 0:58:36SHE SPEAKS PORTUGUESE

0:58:38 > 0:58:41'Once upon a time, there was a woman who was crying

0:58:41 > 0:58:45'and crying because she couldn't have a baby.

0:58:45 > 0:58:50'And an old woman came up to her and said, "What's the matter?'

0:58:50 > 0:58:53"You can't have a baby? Well, look, take this cake",

0:58:53 > 0:58:55and she gave her a cake.

0:58:55 > 0:58:58But the woman was afraid the cake was poisoned,

0:58:58 > 0:59:00so she gave it to her husband.

0:59:00 > 0:59:03And the husband suddenly started,

0:59:03 > 0:59:07"Oh, my God, my tummy's getting big, my tummy's getting big.

0:59:07 > 0:59:11"I can't fit into my trousers, I don't know what the matter is."

0:59:12 > 0:59:16And suddenly, there was a big explosion,

0:59:16 > 0:59:23and the trousers burst, and out comes a baby.

0:59:23 > 0:59:28The baby is just in mid-air and the eagle comes down,

0:59:28 > 0:59:31takes the baby to her nest

0:59:31 > 0:59:35and looks after her as her daughter.

0:59:35 > 0:59:38Gave her clothes, gave her food

0:59:38 > 0:59:42and forbade her never to go out of the nest.

0:59:42 > 0:59:44She must stay in there always.

0:59:44 > 0:59:49Then there was a milkmaid who comes and does the washing

0:59:49 > 0:59:53for the palace because there's a great big palace, of course.

0:59:53 > 0:59:58And she says, "People say I'm ugly,

0:59:58 > 1:00:02"and look, I can see now in the reflection in this water

1:00:02 > 1:00:05"that I'm actually beautiful."

1:00:05 > 1:00:08Of course, it's the girl being reflected

1:00:08 > 1:00:11from the top that she can see, not herself.

1:00:14 > 1:00:20I like the idea of the man having the baby and his gut bursting.

1:00:25 > 1:00:29I like that he says, "Oh, my tummy is getting fat,

1:00:29 > 1:00:32"I can't get into my trousers." I love that.

1:00:34 > 1:00:37It kind of serves him right.

1:00:38 > 1:00:43- I don't mean that. - It serves him right because...?

1:00:43 > 1:00:45Well, the men never have the babies, do they?

1:00:57 > 1:01:01I remember Mum working really hard throughout the 1970s,

1:01:01 > 1:01:04but her collages pictures didn't break through in London.

1:01:04 > 1:01:07Dad, meanwhile, asked me to time him every day

1:01:07 > 1:01:09as he walked to the lamppost and back,

1:01:09 > 1:01:13and every day, he'd take a few more seconds.

1:01:13 > 1:01:15No-one was making any money,

1:01:15 > 1:01:18and it wasn't long before the Gulbenkian grant ran out.

1:01:20 > 1:01:24It was only thanks to Rudy who kept me going, really.

1:01:24 > 1:01:27I met him at a party in 1973,

1:01:27 > 1:01:31and Rudy, for good or for bad, he was able to advise me.

1:01:31 > 1:01:34He was a practical man, to do with businesses and things like that.

1:01:34 > 1:01:39And Vic was mad by then because he was taking cortisone

1:01:39 > 1:01:42and he sometimes had temper flare-outs, which would...

1:01:42 > 1:01:46He was like a mad person, really, how the cortisone affected him.

1:01:46 > 1:01:48Mad.

1:01:48 > 1:01:52Rudy, would say, "Listen, you must just work", and I did.

1:01:52 > 1:01:55He was a very, very strong influence.

1:01:55 > 1:01:58A bit of a bully, but that's what I needed.

1:01:58 > 1:02:04Dad knew about it and Mum and Dad came to some sort of agreement

1:02:04 > 1:02:05so a deal was struck.

1:02:07 > 1:02:11You can love someone very much, even if you're unfaithful to them.

1:02:11 > 1:02:15It's not very nice, or even respectable,

1:02:15 > 1:02:17but you love them just as much.

1:02:17 > 1:02:20And I loved Vic just the same.

1:02:20 > 1:02:23And I just had this other man who paid for things.

1:02:28 > 1:02:32MUSIC: La Norma, Act I: 'Casta Diva' by Jana Jonasova

1:02:32 > 1:02:34And I think it was only afterwards

1:02:34 > 1:02:37when my private life came back into the work

1:02:37 > 1:02:39that things began to get a bit better.

1:02:49 > 1:02:53But this was already 1979, you see, so things were changing.

1:02:53 > 1:02:55You didn't have to do art any more.

1:02:55 > 1:02:59It was so disgusting to do art, there's nothing worse.

1:02:59 > 1:03:02So, it was like freedom again.

1:03:21 > 1:03:26Then I became more down to earth and came to the monkey and the bear

1:03:26 > 1:03:28and the unfaithful wife,

1:03:28 > 1:03:30which was a really personal story.

1:03:30 > 1:03:32It was Vic's story.

1:03:32 > 1:03:34He had the theatre when he was a boy,

1:03:34 > 1:03:38with a dog with one ear, a monkey and a bear.

1:03:38 > 1:03:41He would entertain soldiers doing little puppets with them,

1:03:41 > 1:03:43and I thought, "God, that's fantastic."

1:03:43 > 1:03:46And I drew that down and I realised that the monkey was him

1:03:46 > 1:03:50and the bear was Rudy, and then I introduced...

1:03:50 > 1:03:52The dog with the one ear disappeared very quickly,

1:03:52 > 1:03:55and a woman came in, which was myself.

1:03:55 > 1:03:57And all these...

1:03:57 > 1:04:00Then, of course, variations on this took place.

1:04:00 > 1:04:01It was great fun.

1:04:01 > 1:04:02Of course, I can say that now

1:04:02 > 1:04:04but I wouldn't have said so at the time.

1:04:04 > 1:04:06No-one knew, except Vic.

1:04:09 > 1:04:14In this picture, the monkey beats his adulterous wife,

1:04:14 > 1:04:17and then the next one, where the wife cuts off the monkey's tail.

1:04:17 > 1:04:22I realise that what she's doing is not cutting off his tail,

1:04:22 > 1:04:24she's cutting herself off from him.

1:04:24 > 1:04:27She's separating, that's what she's doing in the picture,

1:04:27 > 1:04:30what I did unconsciously.

1:04:30 > 1:04:33I called it that at the time cos I didn't realise what was going on,

1:04:33 > 1:04:35but that's what was going on in my life.

1:04:35 > 1:04:39I was trying to cut myself away from Vic...

1:04:39 > 1:04:41in order to survive.

1:04:43 > 1:04:45I think Dad probably thought that was it.

1:04:45 > 1:04:48And the only thing he could do -

1:04:48 > 1:04:53end of act two, lose your house, lose your wife, dog dies, you know?

1:04:54 > 1:04:59Act two, turning point, you bloody get on with it.

1:04:59 > 1:05:04So, after a lifetime, so far, for him, of having painter's block,

1:05:04 > 1:05:08if you will, when things couldn't be at their worst, he starts to paint?

1:05:08 > 1:05:11Yes. When it really took off

1:05:11 > 1:05:14was when he had nothing else to fall back on.

1:05:14 > 1:05:15All was lost, pretty much.

1:05:19 > 1:05:21He was incredibly brave.

1:05:21 > 1:05:24He went to SPACE studio got himself a studio.

1:05:24 > 1:05:26He bought these canvasses,

1:05:26 > 1:05:28which were a mile long...

1:05:28 > 1:05:32He was already limping from MS, with crutches,

1:05:32 > 1:05:35and he moved into these crappy studios

1:05:35 > 1:05:37and started painting these big paintings.

1:05:37 > 1:05:40I thought, "Who on Earth is going to buy

1:05:40 > 1:05:43"these big pictures? He must be crazy."

1:05:44 > 1:05:47It's when he risked everything and he went for it

1:05:47 > 1:05:49that he got there.

1:05:51 > 1:05:53And it made a big impact.

1:05:53 > 1:05:55Like Nick Serota giving him a show

1:05:55 > 1:05:57at the Whitechapel.

1:05:57 > 1:06:00Because it made Vic's life, you know?

1:06:00 > 1:06:02It did, it made Vic's life.

1:06:06 > 1:06:10They both became successful in the '80s.

1:06:10 > 1:06:14But the sort of exhibition that really did the trick for Paula,

1:06:14 > 1:06:18was that show in 1978, which was mostly about looking after Vic.

1:06:18 > 1:06:21He was the dog, wasn't he, or the fox?

1:06:21 > 1:06:23She couldn't do any of that caring stuff.

1:06:23 > 1:06:26She couldn't do it with her children and she couldn't do it with Dad.

1:06:27 > 1:06:29And Dad didn't want it either,

1:06:29 > 1:06:31because it was humiliating,

1:06:31 > 1:06:34and he didn't want their relationship to be about that.

1:06:34 > 1:06:36She observed the feeding of the doggie,

1:06:36 > 1:06:38but that wasn't her doing it.

1:06:38 > 1:06:40And she wouldn't have made him take his medicine,

1:06:40 > 1:06:43she couldn't make anybody do anything, literally, like that.

1:06:45 > 1:06:48When you feed medicine into a dog,

1:06:48 > 1:06:51you have to open his mouth by force, like this,

1:06:51 > 1:06:54and then put in the medicine.

1:06:54 > 1:06:58I thought there is both tenderness and aggression

1:06:58 > 1:07:00so I thought that all those things together

1:07:00 > 1:07:04were what it was like at the time, you see?

1:07:04 > 1:07:07Because there are so many mixed feelings

1:07:07 > 1:07:09about somebody who was very ill.

1:07:09 > 1:07:11No matter how much you love them,

1:07:11 > 1:07:14you resent them dreadfully for being ill.

1:07:21 > 1:07:23It was so liked...

1:07:24 > 1:07:26..the girls and dogs...

1:07:27 > 1:07:31..that I got a call from the Marlborough.

1:07:31 > 1:07:34Marlborough was a business that was founded just after the war,

1:07:34 > 1:07:39and we got a reputation for representing important artists -

1:07:39 > 1:07:41Francis Bacon, Henry Moore,

1:07:41 > 1:07:43Barbara Hepworth, Lucien Freud.

1:07:43 > 1:07:46We had galleries in New York, we had galleries in Madrid,

1:07:46 > 1:07:50so we could offer someone like Paula a place on the international stage.

1:07:50 > 1:07:54And the first pictures that we got from her were,

1:07:54 > 1:07:57up to then, her greatest paintings, I felt.

1:08:03 > 1:08:05The Family was about Vic.

1:08:05 > 1:08:09They're trying anything to get their father to come alive,

1:08:09 > 1:08:11rubbing themselves against him and everything.

1:08:12 > 1:08:16I used to bring all my pictures and hang them up in front of his bed

1:08:16 > 1:08:17- for him to see.- In this room, right?

1:08:17 > 1:08:20- This room, yeah. - He would be lying there...

1:08:20 > 1:08:22Here, the light's up there. Yeah.

1:08:22 > 1:08:26And I'd say, "What do you think of this, then?"

1:08:26 > 1:08:29"Just paint it all out."

1:08:29 > 1:08:32He said, The Maids, I had it here.

1:08:32 > 1:08:36He said, "Look, you've got some beautifully painted figures there,

1:08:36 > 1:08:38"and you've got rubbish furniture behind it.

1:08:38 > 1:08:41"It's killing the picture. Paint it all out."

1:08:41 > 1:08:44So I went back and painted it all out.

1:08:44 > 1:08:47Did he also help you with the subject matter,

1:08:47 > 1:08:49the content of the pictures?

1:08:49 > 1:08:50No.

1:08:50 > 1:08:53No, that was nothing to do with him. It didn't...

1:08:53 > 1:08:57But I mean how it's made is important, isn't it?

1:08:59 > 1:09:02Despite being very incapacitated

1:09:02 > 1:09:04by the stage I met him,

1:09:04 > 1:09:11and very frail, he still seemed intensely present and sharp.

1:09:11 > 1:09:14You could see him appraising everything

1:09:14 > 1:09:16that was going on around him.

1:09:16 > 1:09:21She painted Departure, which is this saying goodbye to Dad.

1:09:21 > 1:09:23There he is with his trunk, packed.

1:09:25 > 1:09:27She's combing his hair, he's going off.

1:09:27 > 1:09:30"That's the best", he said.

1:09:30 > 1:09:33That's the best, because he knew it was himself.

1:09:34 > 1:09:38I went to see Dad, gave him a big kiss on the cheek and said,

1:09:38 > 1:09:40"I've got the most terrible cold",

1:09:40 > 1:09:41and he went... "Thanks."

1:09:41 > 1:09:46But he was grateful and he was furious at the same time

1:09:46 > 1:09:49as if he wanted to die,

1:09:49 > 1:09:54but he hadn't anticipated that this was the way he was going to do it.

1:09:54 > 1:09:57Anyway, he got my cold and then he died a week later,

1:09:57 > 1:09:59because he'd refused any...

1:09:59 > 1:10:03I think he refused antibiotics or anything to clear his lungs,

1:10:03 > 1:10:05so his lungs filled up with fluid and he died.

1:10:08 > 1:10:09She suddenly broke down.

1:10:09 > 1:10:12I mean, she wailed.

1:10:12 > 1:10:14She'd been with him when he died.

1:10:14 > 1:10:17We were all sleeping on the floor in various rooms in the flat,

1:10:17 > 1:10:19and she started yelling,

1:10:19 > 1:10:22"Who's going to help me with my work now?!

1:10:22 > 1:10:24"Who's going to help me with my work?!

1:10:24 > 1:10:27"He didn't even say goodbye! He didn't even say goodbye!"

1:10:27 > 1:10:30I actually told mum this story recently, and she was horrified.

1:10:30 > 1:10:33She said, "What a selfish cow I am."

1:10:34 > 1:10:37And then dad's best friend John Mills turned up

1:10:37 > 1:10:40at 8.00 that morning and said,

1:10:40 > 1:10:44"Vic's left a message, a goodbye message for you.

1:10:44 > 1:10:46"It's in a secret file called 'Adieu.' "

1:10:48 > 1:10:53"Paula, I'm uncomfortable now all the time.

1:10:53 > 1:10:56"Most of me is gone already.

1:10:56 > 1:10:59"It only remains for me to dispose of the other little bit

1:10:59 > 1:11:01"while I still can.

1:11:01 > 1:11:06"I don't want to know what the bitter end is.

1:11:06 > 1:11:09"This will be a lonely moment, I imagine.

1:11:09 > 1:11:13"Sell my things slowly and wisely.

1:11:13 > 1:11:15"I know you will paint even better.

1:11:15 > 1:11:20"Trust yourself and you will be your own best friend.

1:11:20 > 1:11:24"As well as sadness, you may also feel relief.

1:11:24 > 1:11:26"Don't feel badly about that.

1:11:26 > 1:11:29"Enjoy life, it's all there is.

1:11:29 > 1:11:31"The kids are great.

1:11:31 > 1:11:32"All my love, Vic."

1:11:38 > 1:11:39Yeah.

1:11:41 > 1:11:43Yeah.

1:11:43 > 1:11:46Mum has carried that note with her ever since,

1:11:46 > 1:11:48often close to her heart.

1:11:48 > 1:11:51It seemed to give her the strength to trust herself.

1:11:56 > 1:11:59Well, it was very odd. It was like the baton being passed on.

1:11:59 > 1:12:02It was very odd, because your father had the Whitechapel show

1:12:02 > 1:12:05and then she had the Serpentine show.

1:12:05 > 1:12:07Her career took off with that, his career...

1:12:07 > 1:12:09That was the climax of it.

1:12:09 > 1:12:12One of the last things he said to her

1:12:12 > 1:12:13was that she should do The Dance,

1:12:13 > 1:12:17and The Dance was a very moving farewell.

1:12:17 > 1:12:19A sort of memory, I suppose,

1:12:19 > 1:12:21of their lovely time in Portugal.

1:12:21 > 1:12:25- But he's dancing... - He's dancing with someone else.

1:12:25 > 1:12:26With another girl.

1:12:26 > 1:12:28Yes, but then there's this

1:12:28 > 1:12:31"Liberty Leading the People" type of figure on the left.

1:12:31 > 1:12:33That's what she's got to do -

1:12:33 > 1:12:36to go into the future, bold as brass.

1:12:36 > 1:12:37- Alone.- Alone.

1:12:37 > 1:12:40You feel she could knock out everyone flat.

1:12:43 > 1:12:46She sort of arrived with this kind of...

1:12:46 > 1:12:47important show.

1:12:47 > 1:12:50The body of work that comprised the Serpentine show

1:12:50 > 1:12:52told a very particular story.

1:12:52 > 1:12:54A story that had a trajectory

1:12:54 > 1:12:58that people could understand and empathise with.

1:13:00 > 1:13:04For the Serpentine show, it was a tremendous success for her

1:13:04 > 1:13:06in so many ways.

1:13:06 > 1:13:09But we didn't realise at that time

1:13:09 > 1:13:11what an effect she was going to have.

1:13:11 > 1:13:14MUSIC: Havemos De Ir A Viana by Amalia Rodrigues

1:13:39 > 1:13:43The first time I met Paula was actually at her one-man show

1:13:43 > 1:13:46at the Serpentine in Hyde Park.

1:13:46 > 1:13:49And in those days, it was rather unusual

1:13:49 > 1:13:51for a woman to have a one-man show.

1:13:51 > 1:13:54I had been part of the first post-war feminist movement

1:13:54 > 1:13:58in which we were looking for exceptional figures, examples,

1:13:58 > 1:14:01and models for us to emulate,

1:14:01 > 1:14:04and Paula is really part of a generation

1:14:04 > 1:14:08that enabled all those women artists now,

1:14:08 > 1:14:10who in spite of continuing difficulties

1:14:10 > 1:14:13are nevertheless in a very different place.

1:14:13 > 1:14:16This is when Charles Saatchi comes into the equation.

1:14:16 > 1:14:18I mean one forgets how important he was

1:14:18 > 1:14:21as a force in the art world in those days.

1:14:21 > 1:14:24He rang me, I remember, saying I had just been to see the Rego show

1:14:24 > 1:14:26at the Serpentine and I was absolutely blown away

1:14:26 > 1:14:29by the new paintings.

1:14:29 > 1:14:32That was a relationship which lasted for 20 years,

1:14:32 > 1:14:33something like that.

1:14:35 > 1:14:38At last, I could live without having to worry,

1:14:38 > 1:14:40paying bills and stuff like that -

1:14:40 > 1:14:44that was the biggest thing of all, to be able to have money.

1:14:44 > 1:14:45Fantastic.

1:14:47 > 1:14:49And you know, there is an element also of relief

1:14:49 > 1:14:53that somebody is not suffering so much.

1:14:53 > 1:14:56My dear, it is dreadful, that.

1:14:56 > 1:14:59And in the house, they are so sick, so sick.

1:14:59 > 1:15:00Oh, no.

1:15:00 > 1:15:03I was there, involved in the thing we always had together,

1:15:03 > 1:15:06which was the painting, as I still am.

1:15:06 > 1:15:08Except now he doesn't speak to me.

1:15:13 > 1:15:18I missed him and I wanted to do something for him,

1:15:18 > 1:15:21not for him but about him.

1:15:21 > 1:15:22I didn't know how.

1:15:22 > 1:15:25I mean it was difficult.

1:15:25 > 1:15:27So I did Dog Woman.

1:15:28 > 1:15:33The Dog Women are being told what to do by him.

1:15:33 > 1:15:38Bad Dog is a girl being kicked out of the bed

1:15:38 > 1:15:41because she's pissed the bed.

1:15:41 > 1:15:44There is one which was the woman

1:15:44 > 1:15:47sleeping on her owner's coat,

1:15:47 > 1:15:49which was his blazer.

1:15:50 > 1:15:52She's helping to be shot.

1:15:53 > 1:15:55Yes.

1:15:55 > 1:15:59Did making these pictures help the grief?

1:15:59 > 1:16:01Well, yes.

1:16:01 > 1:16:04It did because I liked them.

1:16:04 > 1:16:05They were what I felt.

1:16:07 > 1:16:11Usually she's trying to get that twist, that perversity,

1:16:11 > 1:16:15that other thing that's going on between people.

1:16:15 > 1:16:17It's not love, hate...

1:16:17 > 1:16:20It's love and hate, you know?

1:16:20 > 1:16:22It's stroking and hitting.

1:16:27 > 1:16:31She's using me, you know, as her...

1:16:31 > 1:16:35but I have never felt like your mother

1:16:35 > 1:16:37was really painting me.

1:16:37 > 1:16:40It's someone else she sees through me -

1:16:40 > 1:16:43either herself or another person.

1:16:48 > 1:16:50Somebody once was looking at a woman...

1:16:52 > 1:16:54..and said to her...

1:16:54 > 1:16:57"That's you, Lila", and she said,

1:16:57 > 1:16:59"No, that's Dog Woman."

1:16:59 > 1:17:00THEY CHUCKLE

1:17:00 > 1:17:03Do you remember in the Saatchi collection?

1:17:06 > 1:17:08THEY SPEAK IN PORTUGUESE

1:17:29 > 1:17:31THEY LAUGH

1:17:34 > 1:17:37SONG: La Gioconda: Act III 'Dance Of The Hours'

1:17:48 > 1:17:50There's the young ostriches

1:17:50 > 1:17:55and the old ostriches, which are saggy.

1:17:55 > 1:17:56- They're sad.- Are they?

1:17:56 > 1:17:59Yes. They're lying there, asleep,

1:17:59 > 1:18:03and one of them is waiting for a kiss, like that.

1:18:03 > 1:18:05They had no boyfriends, they had nothing.

1:18:05 > 1:18:09There weren't any male ostriches and they were just on their own,

1:18:09 > 1:18:11prancing around and just being silly

1:18:11 > 1:18:14and waiting for a kiss, waiting for love.

1:18:16 > 1:18:19They don't have anybody, they're lonely.

1:18:19 > 1:18:21Lonely ostriches!

1:18:33 > 1:18:37She chose Disney films as a theme

1:18:37 > 1:18:39and then put her own spin on them all

1:18:39 > 1:18:43so she did the Ostriches from Fantasia.

1:18:43 > 1:18:45Did she do Snow White?

1:18:45 > 1:18:48And one of the stories she wanted to illustrate was Pinocchio.

1:18:48 > 1:18:50And she knew I was a model maker

1:18:50 > 1:18:53and she asked me to make a Pinocchio,

1:18:53 > 1:18:55because she liked to have props to work from.

1:18:57 > 1:18:59And Saatchi came to my studio

1:18:59 > 1:19:02and he looked at that little boy,

1:19:02 > 1:19:05Pinocchio, and he said, "What's that? Who did that?"

1:19:05 > 1:19:09I said, "My son-in-law, Ron Mueck."

1:19:09 > 1:19:14"Oh", he said, "we'll call him a new British artist."

1:19:14 > 1:19:15I said, "But he's Australian."

1:19:15 > 1:19:17"Never mind."

1:19:17 > 1:19:19And Charles Saatchi said,

1:19:19 > 1:19:22"Make some more stuff and I'll buy it",

1:19:22 > 1:19:25and that meant I could stop my commercial work

1:19:25 > 1:19:27for a period of time.

1:19:28 > 1:19:32He purchased all those things that I made,

1:19:32 > 1:19:34and one of them was Dead Dad.

1:19:36 > 1:19:38EMOTIVE MUSIC

1:19:56 > 1:19:59Paula has some sort of magic power.

1:19:59 > 1:20:02I know people who sit for Paula are sort of scared stiff,

1:20:02 > 1:20:05because she sort of casts spells on people and things, doesn't she?

1:20:05 > 1:20:07Quite consciously. If she doesn't like you

1:20:07 > 1:20:12and she puts you in a picture, you'd want to watch out!

1:20:12 > 1:20:16She often talks about how you can change the past in a painting,

1:20:16 > 1:20:19you can do something that you maybe didn't have the guts to do,

1:20:19 > 1:20:22but you might have wished you had done at the time.

1:20:22 > 1:20:24That's why I did my guardian angel.

1:20:24 > 1:20:28That guardian angel I did, she exists, my God, she does,

1:20:28 > 1:20:30that guardian angel.

1:20:30 > 1:20:33I did her after the Amaro pictures,

1:20:33 > 1:20:35you know, from the book.

1:20:35 > 1:20:39When you're doing a book like that,

1:20:39 > 1:20:41you go into the book,

1:20:41 > 1:20:43you're part of it, you're actually in there.

1:20:45 > 1:20:48And you can go to places where even the author doesn't go.

1:20:49 > 1:20:53And you can bring some justice where justice is needed.

1:20:53 > 1:20:54I know this sounds awful,

1:20:54 > 1:20:58but there is some revenge sometimes necessary,

1:20:58 > 1:21:00and I can provide that.

1:21:04 > 1:21:07It was a big, big statement

1:21:07 > 1:21:10and it was terribly important to do them.

1:21:10 > 1:21:13I think it's the most ambitious thing I've ever done, actually.

1:21:13 > 1:21:17I did them with a kind of wanting to

1:21:17 > 1:21:20because it had all sorts of things brought together.

1:21:20 > 1:21:24It was to do with my father, because it was the book he liked,

1:21:24 > 1:21:26it was to do with Portugal, obviously,

1:21:26 > 1:21:29it was to do with a love story, a forbidden love,

1:21:29 > 1:21:31but it was a love story.

1:21:31 > 1:21:33Anti-clerical or not, it was a love story,

1:21:33 > 1:21:38and the fact that the girl gets pregnant and she's abandoned

1:21:38 > 1:21:41and then she's sent somewhere to have a child...

1:21:41 > 1:21:45In one of the versions of the book, the priest kills it.

1:21:45 > 1:21:46He drowns the child,

1:21:46 > 1:21:48strangles it and drowns it.

1:21:52 > 1:21:55And at the end, I did The Angel,

1:21:55 > 1:21:58because The Angel was going to punish

1:21:58 > 1:22:01everybody that had done that.

1:22:01 > 1:22:03The priest, everyone.

1:22:03 > 1:22:04Brother Amaro.

1:22:06 > 1:22:07Everyone.

1:22:09 > 1:22:11And I did her after The Coop,

1:22:11 > 1:22:14with all these pregnant women in this room,

1:22:14 > 1:22:17and I knew these women were all going to get abortions,

1:22:17 > 1:22:23which brought back the pain and all the suffering from Slade.

1:22:23 > 1:22:26I knew that they would have to have some guardian angel

1:22:26 > 1:22:28to see that they wouldn't cop it.

1:22:28 > 1:22:33That was the angel I did, you know, and it exists.

1:22:36 > 1:22:39If you paint something dark, that you're scared of,

1:22:39 > 1:22:42does it make you feel better, even then?

1:22:42 > 1:22:43Yeah, even now.

1:22:43 > 1:22:45I do, actually.

1:22:45 > 1:22:47It makes me feel better.

1:22:47 > 1:22:48I'm really...

1:22:50 > 1:22:53..married to my pictures.

1:22:53 > 1:22:54It makes me...

1:22:54 > 1:22:58It does, when I do something that I think maybe is good...

1:23:01 > 1:23:03..I feel so much better.

1:23:03 > 1:23:07So it's like an exorcism?

1:23:07 > 1:23:09And I'm relieved.

1:23:09 > 1:23:12Though the fear goes into the picture.

1:23:15 > 1:23:16I wish I could...

1:23:16 > 1:23:19I'm always looking for stories and things that...

1:23:21 > 1:23:23..give me that possibility.

1:23:24 > 1:23:29But certainly, the angel is still useful.

1:23:29 > 1:23:32I feel very strongly about that picture.

1:23:33 > 1:23:36It's like those things you see in churches, you know?

1:23:36 > 1:23:37- Yeah.- Like that.

1:23:47 > 1:23:50CHORAL SINGING

1:24:05 > 1:24:11When the President, Jorge Sampaio, came to London in a visit,

1:24:11 > 1:24:14he came to my studio, took me aside and said,

1:24:14 > 1:24:19"We'd like you to do for the chapel in the Palacio de Belem",

1:24:19 > 1:24:22which is the President's official residency,

1:24:22 > 1:24:25"more pictures on the life of the Virgin Mary."

1:24:26 > 1:24:30The preparation she did for that,

1:24:30 > 1:24:35biblical studies from the 13th century onwards,

1:24:35 > 1:24:38I then fully understood that religion

1:24:38 > 1:24:40played a part in her life.

1:24:42 > 1:24:44I wanted to do a schoolgirl,

1:24:44 > 1:24:46because that's what she was

1:24:46 > 1:24:47so I made her very young.

1:24:47 > 1:24:49My granddaughter sat for it.

1:24:49 > 1:24:53You imagine a modern girl, that happening to.

1:24:53 > 1:24:56I mean lots of young teenagers have babies now, don't they?

1:24:56 > 1:25:00We've all been in that situation, so we know what it feels like.

1:25:00 > 1:25:04Anyway, I thought I would show her actually having the baby,

1:25:04 > 1:25:06which is not often shown.

1:25:06 > 1:25:09You sometimes see her with a big tummy, but never giving birth.

1:25:09 > 1:25:11So, it's actually what's in the book,

1:25:11 > 1:25:15only there's a meeting between the story and my experience.

1:25:16 > 1:25:20And everyone was saying this would be not accepted,

1:25:20 > 1:25:22you will have a terrible problem,

1:25:22 > 1:25:26so I called the church hierarchy.

1:25:26 > 1:25:30I called the cardinal, and we went around and he was very impressed.

1:25:30 > 1:25:32Very impressed.

1:25:32 > 1:25:36So they were accepted even by the religious hierarchy

1:25:36 > 1:25:38as something that had to be mentioned.

1:25:40 > 1:25:44- But do you believe in God? - Of course I do.

1:25:44 > 1:25:47Of course I believe in God.

1:25:47 > 1:25:49You've lived your life in a different way

1:25:49 > 1:25:54- from how the church would want you to live it.- You bet.

1:25:54 > 1:25:57I do believe in God and the Virgin Mary.

1:25:57 > 1:25:59I like those stories.

1:25:59 > 1:26:03The church is not necessarily a good representation of God,

1:26:03 > 1:26:04is what you're saying?

1:26:04 > 1:26:06No, they do terrible things.

1:26:06 > 1:26:10They martyr people, they censor them,

1:26:10 > 1:26:13everything is forbidden, it's not free.

1:26:13 > 1:26:18Sometimes it's cruel and forbidding of everything.

1:26:22 > 1:26:25Lot number 38 is the Paula Rego, Looking Out.

1:26:25 > 1:26:27Sold as viewed.

1:26:27 > 1:26:31I'm going to start the bidding here at 380,000. 400,000. 420,000 now.

1:26:31 > 1:26:32Obviously I knew you had a tough time,

1:26:32 > 1:26:35but what I didn't know before we made this film, Mum,

1:26:35 > 1:26:39was how much you suffered from shyness and self-doubt

1:26:39 > 1:26:43and depression, but despite that, perhaps even because of it,

1:26:43 > 1:26:46you've become incredibly successful.

1:26:46 > 1:26:48I mean, you've been made a Dame by the Queen,

1:26:48 > 1:26:52had countless of books written about you and your work,

1:26:52 > 1:26:56three kids, even had a museum built for you.

1:26:58 > 1:27:02Last chance now, at £800,000.

1:27:03 > 1:27:07So, when you look back, what is it that you're most proud of?

1:27:13 > 1:27:15Winning the summer prize.

1:27:15 > 1:27:18At the Slade? Are you?

1:27:19 > 1:27:20Yeah.

1:27:22 > 1:27:25Why is that so special for you?

1:27:25 > 1:27:28Because there were so many good artists there

1:27:28 > 1:27:30and I got the prize.

1:27:30 > 1:27:33- And you were young, weren't you? 19? - Yes.

1:27:35 > 1:27:37One of the first things that I remember

1:27:37 > 1:27:40you telling me when I was a little kid

1:27:40 > 1:27:44is that work is the most important thing in life.

1:27:44 > 1:27:46It's true.

1:27:46 > 1:27:47It's true.

1:27:47 > 1:27:49I'm glad I told you that!

1:27:49 > 1:27:51It's true.

1:27:51 > 1:27:52It is for me.

1:27:55 > 1:27:59MUSIC: Gaivota by Amalia Rodrigues