:00:13. > :00:17.Silence spoke volumes today, as Wales and the world of politics paid
:00:18. > :00:26.tribute to Rhodri Morgan, who died yesterday. The former First Minister
:00:27. > :00:33.was regarded as the father of devolution in Wales. He was a very
:00:34. > :00:38.exceptional human being, in all his exceptional capabilities. He had a
:00:39. > :00:43.real, strong sense of normality. It's one of the things that made him
:00:44. > :00:50.a great leader. A huge intellect but a man of the people, whether it was
:00:51. > :00:52.in the pub or the president of imagination, he treated everybody
:00:53. > :00:58.the same, and the kind of Ricci and, most politicians dream of. It wasn't
:00:59. > :01:06.all about politics. Politics was his life, no question, but his passion
:01:07. > :01:13.was bought. He was very witty and it was his depth of knowledge that
:01:14. > :01:18.mesmerised you. A politician who did things his own way. He was genuine
:01:19. > :01:28.and authentic and that's what people loved about him.
:01:29. > :01:43.# Everyone knows that I'm just second-hand rose, from Second
:01:44. > :01:49.Avenue... And amiable, affable, amusing man devoted to his family
:01:50. > :01:55.and to politics. Eight years ago, Rhodri allowed me to film him over a
:01:56. > :01:57.year as his life in front line politics drew to a close. How are
:01:58. > :02:12.we? Not too bad. Rhodri Morgan was born in Cardiff in
:02:13. > :02:18.1939. His father was an academic and MP's agent. His mother was a
:02:19. > :02:23.teacher. His elder brother, Prys, remembered when Rhodri began to get
:02:24. > :02:30.a taste for politics. I recall very clearly 1951, when you were about
:02:31. > :02:34.11, that you drag us all to the church rooms in Radyr on more than
:02:35. > :02:38.one occasion to listen to the political speeches of that election,
:02:39. > :02:47.and you became extremely angry... Yes. That the Tories of Radyr were
:02:48. > :02:51.so impolite and beastly. Yes, it was a very dramatic introduction to a
:02:52. > :03:00.political meeting. If I ever bought a political meeting would be some
:03:01. > :03:03.quiet sort of proceedings of the Aristotelians society discussing our
:03:04. > :03:08.climb paint, -- arcane points, it wasn't like that, it was a mob.
:03:09. > :03:15.Rhodri Morgan went to Whitchurch Grammar School, studied politics at
:03:16. > :03:23.Oxford and and went to Harvard. I had a flat with some others when I
:03:24. > :03:31.was in university and upturned this is why headed Wedgewood who had just
:03:32. > :03:39.arrived from Harvard. -- and up turned this is why headed chap. He
:03:40. > :03:45.was full of brilliant ideas, because Rhodri was very, very bright and he
:03:46. > :03:48.was also brave. He had this marvellous combination, right from
:03:49. > :03:56.the time he was a youngster, of feet on the ground realism, but a sense
:03:57. > :04:01.of vision, of real imagination, colourful imagination. He married
:04:02. > :04:08.Julie, who also went on to be a politician. He met his wife at a
:04:09. > :04:12.party in our flat, Julie. She turned up with some friends and they took
:04:13. > :04:19.to each other pretty quickly. Julie and Rhodri, I think, I didn't know a
:04:20. > :04:26.couple who were so well matched with each other, you know? Very close
:04:27. > :04:31.couple, they were. And Rhodri and Julie, I think, well, they share the
:04:32. > :04:36.same beliefs. I've seen them together, they get on so well. They
:04:37. > :04:43.worked well together. Rhodri was always so supportive of Julie when
:04:44. > :04:51.she was campaigning to get re-elected. And she was also very
:04:52. > :04:54.supportive of Rhodri. He didn't become an elected politician until
:04:55. > :05:02.1987, winning the seat of Cardiff West. Whether it was in the pub or
:05:03. > :05:06.whether it was the president of a major nation, he treated everybody
:05:07. > :05:12.the same, and he always tried to help people, and that's why he was a
:05:13. > :05:16.fabulous MP and AM as well as a politician, and also he didn't take
:05:17. > :05:20.everything seriously. He dealt with issues with great humour, with
:05:21. > :05:23.colourful language, and I think all politicians could learn something
:05:24. > :05:29.from Rhodri about being a little bit more free range and a little bit
:05:30. > :05:34.less control freak career. When I first met Rhodri in the 80s when he
:05:35. > :05:38.was elected as the member for Cardiff West, he used to make very
:05:39. > :05:42.witty speeches about flooding and he said he would like in future if
:05:43. > :05:48.there wasn't better water protection for his constituency, he'd need to
:05:49. > :05:54.wear a wet suit. A strong socialist, his comradeship bridged the
:05:55. > :05:59.political divide. He was very respected and in the early days
:06:00. > :06:02.certain people in his own party, especially in London, couldn't
:06:03. > :06:05.understand him, couldn't understand the type of character he was, but
:06:06. > :06:10.because he had those deep democratic instincts, which I think it's quite
:06:11. > :06:15.a Welsh thing, and the adherence to socialist principles as part of
:06:16. > :06:18.democracy, that is something he had, and he treated everybody equally,
:06:19. > :06:22.even Her Majesty the Queen, when she met him. She was always impressed by
:06:23. > :06:28.his great intellect and great knowledge. And that was something
:06:29. > :06:31.that people respected, so he was very clever as a human being, but
:06:32. > :06:36.the most sociable person you could speak to in the pub or anywhere, and
:06:37. > :06:42.that was the secret of his huge success as a politician. Rhodri's
:06:43. > :06:48.passion for politics was matched by his enthusiasm for sport. I saw my
:06:49. > :06:53.first international match here in the old Cardiff Arms Park at the
:06:54. > :07:01.millennium stadium almost 60 years ago. It was early December, 1948
:07:02. > :07:04.Trevor Alan, the Wallabies touring team, Cardiff beat them, Wales beat
:07:05. > :07:09.them and the Barbarians beat them, all magnificent games of rugby, and
:07:10. > :07:16.it gave me a love of taking every opportunity to come and see the guys
:07:17. > :07:20.in the red shirts playing. Politics was his life, no question, but his
:07:21. > :07:25.passion was sport. A great supporter of Welsh rugby. He enjoyed watching
:07:26. > :07:29.it and possibly what annoyed most politicians that he spoke to, they
:07:30. > :07:37.knew -- he knew so much more than anybody else. We've got it! We've
:07:38. > :07:47.got it! No, we haven't. They've pinched it again. Have they? Yes!
:07:48. > :07:52.Whenever he was down at Cardiff Arms Park, which he enjoyed going to,
:07:53. > :07:55.taking his grandsons, there would be no fuss. He would like to be on the
:07:56. > :08:00.terrace, enjoying the environment, which he had as a young man, as a
:08:01. > :08:05.child himself, you know. He was great to have a conversation with.
:08:06. > :08:08.He was very, very witty and it was his depth of knowledge that
:08:09. > :08:12.mesmerised you, virtually, in the end. Rhodri Morgan had a way of
:08:13. > :08:20.winning hearts and minds, that it was his way with words that often
:08:21. > :08:22.made headlines, including one of his memorable Newsnight appearances.
:08:23. > :08:27.Rhodri Morgan, will you run again for leadership of the Welsh Labour
:08:28. > :08:35.Party? Do temp -- to one-legged ducks ducks swim in a circle? We
:08:36. > :08:38.were told we will be on at 10:30pm and Rhodri was very keen to have a
:08:39. > :08:43.pint in the teeth clock up next to the studios before 11pm, and we got
:08:44. > :08:50.held on the line and I could see him getting frustrated, so I think the
:08:51. > :08:53.terse answer he gave to Jeremy Paxman was partly because he was
:08:54. > :09:01.dying for a quick pint before chucking out time. In 2000, a year
:09:02. > :09:04.after the referendum on devolution, he finally got his wish, becoming
:09:05. > :09:08.leader of the Labour Party in Wales, and with it the job of First
:09:09. > :09:15.Minister. He'd been overlooked twice for the job by Prime Minister Tony
:09:16. > :09:22.Blair. Only Tony Blair knows why he didn't put me in the ministerial
:09:23. > :09:26.team with Ron Davies back in 97, or give me another junior ministerial
:09:27. > :09:32.job, but he said it was one of the worst mistakes he had made later on,
:09:33. > :09:38.which was very noble of him. An extraordinary admission, in a way,
:09:39. > :09:41.when you consider all the possible candidates for the stake that he'd
:09:42. > :09:47.made, he said the worst one was trying to block me from being First
:09:48. > :09:51.Minister. -- possible candidates for mistakes. Anyway, it made my
:09:52. > :09:56.political career in Wales, so I can hardly be an for Tony Blair blocking
:09:57. > :10:00.me in ministerial office, because it may be a popular hero in Wales
:10:01. > :10:04.because he snubbed me, so I'm grateful to Tony Blair for doing
:10:05. > :10:08.that, but that is the swings and roundabouts of politics. I could
:10:09. > :10:14.never understand, even his great accomplishment and his real
:10:15. > :10:20.political skill, in the best sense, bringing people over to agree with
:10:21. > :10:27.him, which is a remarkable attribute, why he wasn't certainly
:10:28. > :10:33.put in the government by Tony Blair in 1997, and put into the Cabinet,
:10:34. > :10:36.in my view. Wood I followed Rhodri Morgan on a trip to the States, and
:10:37. > :10:42.the first encounter was him all over. He is reading a famously
:10:43. > :10:46.difficult novel by James Joyce and wearing the oldest pair of jeans
:10:47. > :10:53.I've seen in business class. He has no time for the modern-day obsession
:10:54. > :11:02.with image. His welcoming party watches as his old bag begins to
:11:03. > :11:11.fall apart on arrival. I've got a knackered old leather bag. A small
:11:12. > :11:13.pick-up on an important trip. It's September last year, and it's
:11:14. > :11:21.Louisville, Kentucky, famous for bluegrass music and a certain kind
:11:22. > :11:24.of fast food. And, this year, home to golf's Ryder Cup, a global
:11:25. > :11:36.sporting phenomenon that Wales will host next year. Bore da, Ieuan. Was
:11:37. > :11:42.on the trip, his deputy, you will Jones, the need Plaid Cymru, a
:11:43. > :11:47.political opponent now part of the Assembly government. -- the leader
:11:48. > :11:54.of Plaid Cymru. He is smiling because last night he met Muhammad
:11:55. > :12:02.Ali. When I tell Jack Brooks that you... Coming from a non-boxing part
:12:03. > :12:10.of Wales. Have you never heard the story that I told? How you used to
:12:11. > :12:16.be an amateur boxer? Know, how my father would insist my brother got
:12:17. > :12:20.up at 3am to watch him fight in the early 60s, because we'd never seen a
:12:21. > :12:28.boxer like him. Your father was a keen boxing fan? Yes. Sparring over,
:12:29. > :12:33.a breakfast briefing about the day ahead. It's not just about sport.
:12:34. > :12:37.They could be jobs for Wales. A lot of those meetings are sensitive
:12:38. > :12:43.because the companies don't want it out there that they are meeting us.
:12:44. > :12:46.They are very high priority. A hectic schedule, golf attracting
:12:47. > :12:53.business people in their droves, and much of the First Minister's time
:12:54. > :12:57.here is spent networking. How are things in your business? It carries
:12:58. > :13:04.on into the evening. Even so, he makes his daily call to his wife, MP
:13:05. > :13:06.Julie Morgan. We are off to the Muhammad Ali centre, a Wales
:13:07. > :13:14.reception as I try and build the bridge between the 37th Ryder Cup,
:13:15. > :13:18.is it that? That is in Valhalla, with the 38th in Newport. I have to
:13:19. > :13:25.tell them, come to Wales and so on. Another objective tonight, to try
:13:26. > :13:29.and avoid the fatty food that accompanies these occasions. A
:13:30. > :13:35.low-fat, no fat diet. No skin. Just white chicken meat. Because, like
:13:36. > :13:37.him, I've had a stand fitted in my heart and I have to eat low-fat
:13:38. > :13:47.food. We are determined, however high bar
:13:48. > :13:50.has been set, we are going to jump even higher in 2010. Look forward to
:13:51. > :14:19.seeing you. What do you reckon about the TV
:14:20. > :14:27.audiences these days? 1 billion people watching it. It could be 2
:14:28. > :14:35.billion. What an unbelievable spotlight to have on Wales. We just
:14:36. > :14:44.wish the government understood how important it was. Joking aside, they
:14:45. > :14:49.all know how much Rhodri Morgan has personally put into securing this
:14:50. > :14:54.event for Wales. It is all about developing the Welsh brand, starting
:14:55. > :14:59.with the right shirt to fit into team Wales. I have worn white and
:15:00. > :15:04.black, I thought I would try pink. I have never worn a pink shirt before.
:15:05. > :15:09.We have a once in a generation opportunity to put Wales on the map
:15:10. > :15:13.in a political sense, but you also have to put Wales on the map in an
:15:14. > :15:18.economic sense and our economic development will be hampered unless
:15:19. > :15:22.Wales gets the same profile as other sports countries. We bid for the
:15:23. > :15:27.Ryder Cup because we thought it would potentially transform the
:15:28. > :15:35.profile of Wales, especially in North America. Ryder Cup 2010. After
:15:36. > :15:41.that do they know where Wales is? I am hoping far more will. Keeping
:15:42. > :15:46.tabs on time is Lawrence Conway, a senior civil servant who runs the
:15:47. > :15:50.First Minister's office. He had his setback last year, but he seems to
:15:51. > :15:56.have come back with an appetite now for all the work he is doing. On
:15:57. > :16:03.this trip I watched as the First Minister put in at least 14 hours a
:16:04. > :16:12.day. Not bad for someone nearly 70. There was the occasional power nap.
:16:13. > :16:18.CHEERING .
:16:19. > :16:22.In the end of the USA won the tournament. Disappointing for
:16:23. > :16:26.Europeans, but the Welsh left Kentucky excited by the prospect of
:16:27. > :16:32.international attention and a boost to the economy. As First Minister of
:16:33. > :16:36.the national Assembly in Wales, Rhodri Morgan set out to establish a
:16:37. > :16:41.voice that was very distinct from that of the Labour Party in
:16:42. > :16:45.Westminster. He knew there was no point simply doing exactly what was
:16:46. > :16:49.being done by the Labour government in London. We had to look at Welsh
:16:50. > :16:53.ways to do things differently in Wales where it was the right thing
:16:54. > :16:57.to do and that meant doing things in a different way from the other party
:16:58. > :17:03.in London. He will be remembered somebody who put in place those
:17:04. > :17:09.building blocks for a strong devolution in Wales. We are an
:17:10. > :17:13.Assembly to be reckoned with. And he was somebody who was able to
:17:14. > :17:16.communicate with the public in a way which very few politicians have at
:17:17. > :17:21.their fingertips. In that way he was quite exceptional. He took a
:17:22. > :17:25.fledgling democracy and an institution that was struggling in
:17:26. > :17:30.2000 and build something far more durable. He took the Assembly from
:17:31. > :17:36.being something that was not widely supported by the people in Wales, to
:17:37. > :17:40.being an institution that people understand and the institution is
:17:41. > :17:43.very much part of our lives in Wales. He deserves the credit for
:17:44. > :17:49.the work he did for that over the best part of a decade. He was a
:17:50. > :17:55.lovely, warm guy who maintain friendships. When he became First
:17:56. > :17:58.Minister in Wales he gave reality to devolution, reality was the
:17:59. > :18:03.principle of the Assembly in Wales, and set up a structure and sister
:18:04. > :18:08.was there that have done so much good in helping the people of Wales
:18:09. > :18:15.and helping the National identity. We all owe him a huge debt of
:18:16. > :18:21.thanks. Eight years ago, Rhodri Morgan and his brother Prys told me
:18:22. > :18:26.how they had traced the family's history of activism back generations
:18:27. > :18:31.to the 19th century and the Rebecca Riots, people's revolt against road
:18:32. > :18:37.tolls. Morgan Morgan probably was one of the leaders of the Rebecca
:18:38. > :18:45.rising which had led to the smashing of the toll gates near where
:18:46. > :18:51.Morrison Hospital is today. In 1843. The Morrison Hospital. And they were
:18:52. > :18:56.eventually released because of the collapse of the evidence against
:18:57. > :19:03.them. It was when Rhodri and I went to the Tabernacle Sunday school when
:19:04. > :19:08.an uncle of hours... Uncle Billy, superintendent of the Sunday school.
:19:09. > :19:11.What a status with that role. He used to remind Rhodri, I was
:19:12. > :19:18.interested in the historical side, he used to remind you that you were
:19:19. > :19:22.one of the children of Rebecca, the children of the oppressed. I could
:19:23. > :19:27.see you with your huge eyes staring at him and this great mop of hair.
:19:28. > :19:33.He would say this every Sunday. While religion was a big part of his
:19:34. > :19:37.upbringing he was to outgrow it. It is Easter and the place is Mwnt in
:19:38. > :19:42.Cardigan Bay, famous for its picturesque church. Julie and Rhodri
:19:43. > :19:49.Morgan have been coming here to their holiday caravan for years. I
:19:50. > :19:55.am very proud of my nonconformists Welsh Chapel heritage. I have not
:19:56. > :20:01.inherited belief in some sort of Almighty, I am a rationalist in that
:20:02. > :20:07.sense. I remember being very upset when my grandmother had cancer and
:20:08. > :20:12.was living with us and she had about a year's remission when she seemed
:20:13. > :20:16.to be getting better. And so it was a nice Sunday morning like this and
:20:17. > :20:22.she had done a bit of washing to show she had been getting better. I
:20:23. > :20:28.mentioned this to my aunt and I saw my aunt nearly dropping the plate
:20:29. > :20:31.that she had, the most important thing was that somebody had done
:20:32. > :20:37.washing on Sunday that you should not do. I thought is this religion
:20:38. > :20:43.all it is cracked up to be? He may have lost his faith, but religion
:20:44. > :20:48.was a formative interest. They say nonconformity is the biggest single
:20:49. > :20:54.background effect on determining whether you vote Tory or not. Church
:20:55. > :21:00.equals Tory,, you might vote for another party like Plaid Cymru, but
:21:01. > :21:08.I think I have grown up with that view. A very large majority of
:21:09. > :21:14.people in Wales have inherited that same nonconformist, radical
:21:15. > :21:19.background. In 2007, Rhodri Morgan was forced to slow down for a while
:21:20. > :21:24.when he was admitted to hospital. Is this a daily routine when you can do
:21:25. > :21:30.it? Five or six days a week. I will miss one maybe. When I am in North
:21:31. > :21:36.Wales will stop certainly five night a week. Is this something you have
:21:37. > :21:41.done for health reasons or have you always been a walker? I have always
:21:42. > :21:49.been a walker or a runner, but then I took it more seriously and made
:21:50. > :21:55.sure I took it into my routine and made sure I got the time because of
:21:56. > :22:01.my heart problem. Oh, then. Now he can do it. That is good. I do not
:22:02. > :22:06.usually come this way. You do not get too much stiffness or anything
:22:07. > :22:13.like that? Has the effect of age kicked in yet? No. When we climbed
:22:14. > :22:18.Snowdon I did not feel stiff the next day. I have a cod liver oil
:22:19. > :22:24.pill in the morning. I do not know whether that has an effect. They
:22:25. > :22:30.keep your joints supple. This must be a fantastic place to come after a
:22:31. > :22:35.hard day, the stresses of the office. Absolutely, yes, it is. I
:22:36. > :22:40.could not be luckier. If you go right into the middle of the wood,
:22:41. > :22:43.you could be in a South American jungle and yet you are literally
:22:44. > :22:49.five miles from the centre of Cardiff. Two years later and a few
:22:50. > :22:53.days after his 70th birthday, he announced he was to step down as
:22:54. > :23:02.First Minister and leave front line politics. You cannot wait until
:23:03. > :23:08.others push you out. It frequently happens after ten years. I have seen
:23:09. > :23:13.it happen to leaders. Like Tony Blair and so forth, and I do not
:23:14. > :23:24.want that to happen to me. There is an actual thing about a decade...
:23:25. > :23:34.Hello, Gavin. How are we? Not too bad. Good. Quite the big day. Yes,
:23:35. > :23:40.it has been a bit emotional. More emotional than I expected. Is there
:23:41. > :23:46.really maybe because the announcement has been made now. Yes,
:23:47. > :23:51.of course there is. Because trying to get the details of it right has
:23:52. > :23:56.been problematic. We only finally determined the details on Monday in
:23:57. > :24:02.an obscure corner of the conference in Brighton. We had a good few hours
:24:03. > :24:07.to nail down the details. It was a bit more emotional than you thought
:24:08. > :24:12.today. Trying to explain to people that I do love this job and I am
:24:13. > :24:17.giving it up voluntarily because of a long-held belief that you should
:24:18. > :24:22.not stay too long. People do not always understand the logic of that.
:24:23. > :24:28.You do not strike me as a tremendously emotional person in
:24:29. > :24:36.that sense. I am a very unemotional person I hope. I have control over
:24:37. > :24:39.my emotion, except there were personal things, not over political
:24:40. > :24:50.things. You are not going to regret it? No, not at all. Here we are, OK.
:24:51. > :24:57.The end of his last week soon arrives. His successor, Carwyn
:24:58. > :25:04.Jones, is announced, waiting in the wings. After the farewell interviews
:25:05. > :25:08.he gathers up mementos and personal gift, including his beloved
:25:09. > :25:13.Patagonian poncho, and I wanted to know what one thing he would take
:25:14. > :25:20.away as an achievement. The foundation phase. To do something
:25:21. > :25:23.that breaks with 120 odd years of compulsory primary education
:25:24. > :25:27.tradition in Britain, to reduce the long tail of non-achievers and
:25:28. > :25:33.non-readers by giving them this very thorough grounding in curriculum in
:25:34. > :25:39.the Scandinavian manner, that is number one thing that I was achieved
:25:40. > :25:43.and it has taken ten years to roll it out, but we have finally done it.
:25:44. > :25:48.There is one thing he will not have to live with any more. I am
:25:49. > :25:53.gradually finding the kind of sense of pressure on me lifting. I slept
:25:54. > :26:00.unbelievably well for three night in a row. When was the last time you
:26:01. > :26:05.had such good sleep? Ten years ago. I think the weight of office does
:26:06. > :26:10.have an effect. I hope Carwyn Jones is not watching this. Looking back,
:26:11. > :26:14.definitely something has happened over the last three days that is
:26:15. > :26:25.different from the previous ten years. In retirement he concentrated
:26:26. > :26:29.on his family and life at home. We were neighbours for a period and he
:26:30. > :26:35.was a brilliant Gardner and so on. He was very active at that time,
:26:36. > :26:40.physically active, and he was physically active to the very end
:26:41. > :26:45.despite his illnesses. That was his strength of character coming
:26:46. > :26:48.through. But he never gave up on politics. Out campaigning for the
:26:49. > :26:54.Labour Party for next month's general election. There is nobody
:26:55. > :27:00.who could compare with Rhodri in many ways. He was a witty, kind
:27:01. > :27:04.polymath and I will miss him immensely, as I am sure everyone in
:27:05. > :27:11.Wales will, even those he did not know him. He was that kind of
:27:12. > :27:16.person. He was a giant of the Labour Party and the labour movement and
:27:17. > :27:20.Julie, his wife, also an MP, obviously they are all devastated by
:27:21. > :27:28.this shocking news and I put my arms around them all. Give a really big
:27:29. > :27:33.labour welcome. I think that it is impossible to follow in Rhodri's
:27:34. > :27:41.footsteps because as we say in Wales, he was on his own. Thank you,
:27:42. > :27:52.conference. He was a one-off.