Iwan Thomas

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0:00:02 > 0:00:03Champion athlete Iwan Thomas

0:00:03 > 0:00:06has always pushed himself to the very limit.

0:00:06 > 0:00:09And it's Thomas now in the lead! Thomas for Wales.

0:00:09 > 0:00:12And Richardson, his great rival, coming through on the inside!

0:00:12 > 0:00:17Thomas is holding on through sheer strength! Thomas wins!

0:00:17 > 0:00:19The winner of 11 major medals,

0:00:19 > 0:00:24Iwan's British 400 metre record has stood since 1997.

0:00:26 > 0:00:29'..Welshman has ever reached the final of the 400 metres before

0:00:29 > 0:00:33'and this one, Thomas, has broken the Games' record.'

0:00:34 > 0:00:38But Iwan's shoes are definitely made more for running than dancing,

0:00:38 > 0:00:40shown by his short stint in this year's Strictly.

0:00:44 > 0:00:47Iwan was born in Kent in 1974

0:00:47 > 0:00:51and was interested in sport from a very young age.

0:00:51 > 0:00:53His father Cliff is from Middlesex

0:00:53 > 0:00:56and his mother Ann, a native Welsh speaker, from Denbighshire.

0:00:58 > 0:01:01Choosing to represent Wales in the Commonwealth Games,

0:01:01 > 0:01:03Iwan is passionate to learn about his Welsh past.

0:01:06 > 0:01:08I can't wait to go on this journey.

0:01:08 > 0:01:10I feel I need to know more about my family history.

0:01:10 > 0:01:13My mother told me about my great-great-grandfather, Thomas Thomas.

0:01:13 > 0:01:15The rumours are he owned a mine.

0:01:15 > 0:01:18Quite an entrepreneur, and he did really well for himself.

0:01:18 > 0:01:21Whether this is true, I don't know, so I can't wait to go on this

0:01:21 > 0:01:24journey and find out the truth about his past.

0:01:25 > 0:01:29So ready on the starting blocks, Iwan Thomas is Coming Home.

0:01:32 > 0:01:35The village of Llandderfel in Gwynedd

0:01:35 > 0:01:38is where Iwan's story will begin.

0:01:38 > 0:01:40Just five miles from the busy town of Bala,

0:01:40 > 0:01:44this village was home to generations of Iwan's ancestors.

0:01:44 > 0:01:46And genealogist, Mike Churchill-Jones

0:01:46 > 0:01:50has been busy researching Iwan's family history.

0:01:50 > 0:01:52And this is what we've come up with.

0:01:54 > 0:01:59Wow! It goes back a long way, doesn't it?

0:01:59 > 0:02:02Iwan can see his ancestry in North Wales can be traced back

0:02:02 > 0:02:04almost 300 years,

0:02:04 > 0:02:07to the early 18th century in Merionethshire.

0:02:08 > 0:02:141718? I just can't even imagine life back then.

0:02:14 > 0:02:17- It's just numbers to me. - Absolutely, yeah.

0:02:17 > 0:02:21It feels a bit overwhelming, um...seeing all these names.

0:02:23 > 0:02:27The first name Mike draws attention to is on Iwan's mother's line.

0:02:27 > 0:02:31Griffith Thomas, Iwan's great-great-great-grandfather.

0:02:31 > 0:02:37Griffith was born 1829 in this very village

0:02:37 > 0:02:39and he was baptised in this very church.

0:02:39 > 0:02:42Wow! I'm getting goose bumps. That's weird.

0:02:44 > 0:02:47- And he was a groom, a labourer and a gamekeeper.- Yeah.

0:02:47 > 0:02:51- So he liked animals. - It appears to be the case, yeah.

0:02:53 > 0:02:55Great occupations, groom and gamekeeper.

0:02:55 > 0:02:56- He was christened in here?- Yeah.

0:02:56 > 0:02:59His baptism took place here.

0:02:59 > 0:03:01That's so weird to think I have a relative

0:03:01 > 0:03:05who was in here in the early 1800s.

0:03:05 > 0:03:08And I'm here in 2015.

0:03:08 > 0:03:13I wonder if, in 100 years' time, someone will be here saying,

0:03:13 > 0:03:15"That bloke, that runner bloke, that Iwan Gwyn Thomas,

0:03:15 > 0:03:17"he came here once to do a programme."

0:03:17 > 0:03:20You never know, do you? You never know.

0:03:22 > 0:03:25Griffith and Elizabeth's son was Thomas Thomas.

0:03:25 > 0:03:29The man Iwan believes was a great entrepreneur and slate mine owner.

0:03:31 > 0:03:34Whenever my mum talks to me about my Welsh side of the family,

0:03:34 > 0:03:36it's always Thomas Thomas,

0:03:36 > 0:03:39who I originally thought was my great-grandfather,

0:03:39 > 0:03:41but he's not, he's my great-great-grandfather.

0:03:41 > 0:03:45And he was quite a successful man, from what I was told.

0:03:45 > 0:03:50Well, I can tell you at the moment that he was a grocer and a merchant.

0:03:50 > 0:03:53Now, yes, there's a lot more to tell you about him,

0:03:53 > 0:03:57and you'll find out all that we can muster on your journey.

0:03:57 > 0:04:00I'm looking forward to hearing about him because

0:04:00 > 0:04:04I didn't know he was a grocer and a merchant. I-I thought...

0:04:04 > 0:04:07I was led to believe that he owned a mine.

0:04:07 > 0:04:10So I don't know if that was true, but...

0:04:10 > 0:04:13So that's really interesting because I didn't know about that.

0:04:13 > 0:04:16Thomas is pictured here with his wife Ann

0:04:16 > 0:04:20and their granddaughter Sydney, Iwan's grandmother.

0:04:21 > 0:04:24Iwan has been told many stories about Thomas

0:04:24 > 0:04:27and he hopes this journey will provide all the answers he seeks.

0:04:29 > 0:04:34Iwan will begin by learning about the early part of Thomas' life.

0:04:34 > 0:04:37And to do that, he's crossed the Welsh border into Shropshire

0:04:37 > 0:04:40to visit Blists Hill Victorian town,

0:04:40 > 0:04:43one of the Ironbridge Gorge Museums.

0:04:43 > 0:04:45Here, he can learn how Thomas started his career

0:04:45 > 0:04:48as an apprentice grocer at the tender age of just 10.

0:04:48 > 0:04:50Iwan. Nice to meet you.

0:04:50 > 0:04:55Historian Georgina Grant can reveal more about Thomas' life from 1868.

0:04:55 > 0:04:58He was quite a young apprentice at this time.

0:04:58 > 0:05:01And he would've been in this trade for about five years.

0:05:01 > 0:05:03Before school, or there was no school?

0:05:03 > 0:05:06He might've had some schooling, but this was your main education.

0:05:06 > 0:05:08If you wanted to be a grocer or work in a trade,

0:05:08 > 0:05:11you'd start as an apprentice and you'd learn that way.

0:05:11 > 0:05:14In terms of, do you know roughly what his daily chores would

0:05:14 > 0:05:16have been? What would he have done?

0:05:16 > 0:05:18He would have started right at the bottom.

0:05:18 > 0:05:21So things like washing the fruit, unwrapping packages,

0:05:21 > 0:05:23grinding coffee, blending tea,

0:05:23 > 0:05:26weighing out fruit and rice.

0:05:26 > 0:05:28And then he might've worked his way up the ranks eventually,

0:05:28 > 0:05:31making his way behind the counter and serving customers.

0:05:31 > 0:05:34So as a 10 year old, this wasn't deemed as a punishment,

0:05:34 > 0:05:36- this was actually giving him a little boost up in life?- Yes.

0:05:36 > 0:05:38This would've been quite a good job to have.

0:05:38 > 0:05:42Once you learn the trade, you could go on to become your own grocer.

0:05:42 > 0:05:43So it was a really good thing to do.

0:05:43 > 0:05:45And would he have come here on his own,

0:05:45 > 0:05:48- with brothers and sisters, with his mum and dad?- No.

0:05:48 > 0:05:52His parents, Elizabeth and Griffith, would've sent him away to the grocers.

0:05:52 > 0:05:55So, yeah, away from home and living with a different family.

0:05:55 > 0:05:56As a 10 year old, for me,

0:05:56 > 0:06:01I was out playing football, on my BMX bike with my mates.

0:06:01 > 0:06:04- It was a very different life. - I think my mum and dad, when I got a bit older,

0:06:04 > 0:06:07I had to cut the grass on a Saturday and I moaned about that.

0:06:07 > 0:06:10- This would've been really tough. - Yes, but worthwhile.

0:06:10 > 0:06:12So, how long did he stay in Ruthin for?

0:06:12 > 0:06:13We think about four years.

0:06:13 > 0:06:17And then he moved to Liverpool to continue his...

0:06:17 > 0:06:19- He's a Scouser? - SHE LAUGHS - Yes.

0:06:19 > 0:06:22- No, he...? - In Rhuthin, he only spoke in Welsh.

0:06:22 > 0:06:25So it's quite interesting because when he moved to Liverpool,

0:06:25 > 0:06:27he must've taught himself English.

0:06:27 > 0:06:32- So the first English he learnt was Scouse English?- Yes, probably.- Wow!

0:06:32 > 0:06:34He might've had a bit of an accent.

0:06:35 > 0:06:37This is Thomas Thomas as a teenager.

0:06:37 > 0:06:42Likely photographed after completing his apprenticeship in Liverpool.

0:06:42 > 0:06:46By 1877, when he was 18, he moved back to Wales, North Wales,

0:06:46 > 0:06:48and he opened his very own grocery store.

0:06:48 > 0:06:50Wow! That must be quite a thing.

0:06:50 > 0:06:53He must have learnt a lot in his apprenticeship and done really well

0:06:53 > 0:06:56and taken everything he learnt to open his own place.

0:06:56 > 0:07:00He opened a further three during his life.

0:07:00 > 0:07:03He owned four greengrocers. I feel bad now.

0:07:03 > 0:07:06I don't eat much fruit and veg. I should eat a bit more healthily.

0:07:07 > 0:07:11This photograph shows Thomas' first grocer shop in North Wales.

0:07:11 > 0:07:15Thomas is pictured leaning by the doorway.

0:07:15 > 0:07:17So far, the stories Iwan's mother told him

0:07:17 > 0:07:20about Thomas' success appear to be true.

0:07:20 > 0:07:24Already this morning, I've learnt so much more than what I knew before.

0:07:24 > 0:07:26I knew little bits about his life.

0:07:26 > 0:07:29So I'm genuinely smiling and I'm excited to find out

0:07:29 > 0:07:32how his life turned out and how he got there.

0:07:32 > 0:07:35Thomas' parents, Griffith and Elizabeth Thomas,

0:07:35 > 0:07:39certainly pointed him in the direction of success.

0:07:39 > 0:07:41And they were no stranger to hard work either.

0:07:41 > 0:07:45Griffith worked on the Pale Estate from the mid 1800s,

0:07:45 > 0:07:48where he was employed as a gamekeeper.

0:07:48 > 0:07:52Iwan is heading to this grand home at Crogen in Llandderfel,

0:07:52 > 0:07:55but he has no idea why he's here.

0:07:55 > 0:07:57It's a nice place.

0:07:58 > 0:08:02And he's going to be meeting the lady of the manor, Sarah Robertson,

0:08:02 > 0:08:04whose husband's great-great-grandfather

0:08:04 > 0:08:08actually employed Griffith over 100 years ago.

0:08:10 > 0:08:12DOORBELL

0:08:14 > 0:08:16- Hello, I'm Iwan.- Hello! - Nice to meet you.- Sarah.

0:08:16 > 0:08:20- Sarah, I've got no clue why I'm at your wonderful house.- Seriously not?

0:08:20 > 0:08:23- No, honestly.- Well...- It's mine, isn't it? Do I own this house?

0:08:23 > 0:08:26- No, I'm joking. - No, you don't.- I'm joking.

0:08:26 > 0:08:28Um...but we've got a surprise for you

0:08:28 > 0:08:31because your great-great-great-great-grandfather

0:08:31 > 0:08:35was a gamekeeper on this estate back at the turn of the last century.

0:08:35 > 0:08:39- So, he worked here?- He worked here. - Excellent.- Come along in.- Thank you.

0:08:39 > 0:08:40Come in, come in, come in.

0:08:43 > 0:08:46So these were all the workers on the Pale Estate

0:08:46 > 0:08:48at the turn of the last century.

0:08:48 > 0:08:50That was Pale Hall, which was built by

0:08:50 > 0:08:53my husband's great-great-grandfather.

0:08:53 > 0:08:55So those are the keepers, and, lo and behold,

0:08:55 > 0:08:59right at the top is your great-great-great-grandfather.

0:08:59 > 0:09:01Why number one? Was he the first one here, or...?

0:09:01 > 0:09:03I would imagine he was the head keeper.

0:09:03 > 0:09:06And being a gamekeeper was quite a prestigious job.

0:09:08 > 0:09:12Queen Victoria visited this very estate in 1889

0:09:12 > 0:09:15and left this signed book as a gift to her hosts.

0:09:15 > 0:09:18And it says, "with the expression of her sincere thanks for his

0:09:18 > 0:09:21"kindness in allowing her and her children to spend a few

0:09:21 > 0:09:24"days in his charming house in this beautiful country.

0:09:24 > 0:09:26"From Victoria R.I."

0:09:26 > 0:09:29- Wow!- "Pale, Llandderfel, 1889."

0:09:29 > 0:09:32So, do you think Griffith might have met her when she stayed here?

0:09:32 > 0:09:34Who knows? It would be lovely to think he did. But actually,

0:09:34 > 0:09:38I'm just thinking, her visit was August 23-27th,

0:09:38 > 0:09:41so the grouse would have just come into season

0:09:41 > 0:09:45on the glorious 12th and it could have been that

0:09:45 > 0:09:48some may have been shot and that would've been part of her dinner.

0:09:48 > 0:09:51- So, he may have been the man who pulled that trigger.- He could.

0:09:51 > 0:09:55- Who knows?- And he lived right here...- And he was right here, yeah.

0:09:55 > 0:09:59- Can we see that house? Can I...? - You can, you can.

0:09:59 > 0:10:01- Come outside, I'll show you. - Brilliant!

0:10:01 > 0:10:02Hopefully, you can go and have a look.

0:10:02 > 0:10:04- Excellent. Thank you.- Not at all.

0:10:09 > 0:10:13- So, Iwan, that white house there... - OK.- That is...

0:10:13 > 0:10:16- That's where he lived. - Yep.- Brilliant.

0:10:16 > 0:10:18- I'm going to have a look. - I think you should.

0:10:18 > 0:10:20- Thank you so much for your time. - It's been great.

0:10:20 > 0:10:22And I love your house. It's gorgeous.

0:10:22 > 0:10:25- Come back and visit us.- Will do. Thank you.- Run here!

0:10:25 > 0:10:28- Great to have met you.- See you. - Bye-bye. Take care.

0:10:30 > 0:10:34Griffith may not have lived in the grand home with the Robertsons,

0:10:34 > 0:10:37but he did live in this picturesque cottage with his family.

0:10:37 > 0:10:40With beautiful views of the very valley he worked on.

0:10:42 > 0:10:46Griffith worked as a gamekeeper for many years in the 19th century.

0:10:46 > 0:10:49And Iwan can learn more about what his job entailed

0:10:49 > 0:10:52by meeting with gamekeeper, Alan Lentell.

0:10:52 > 0:10:56Alan was employed on the Pale Estate from the late 1960s

0:10:56 > 0:10:58and still works as a gamekeeper today.

0:11:01 > 0:11:04- So, what would life have been like for Griffith?- Oh, very hard.

0:11:04 > 0:11:06- Hard life?- Very hard.

0:11:06 > 0:11:09He'd start very early in the morning and carry on until dark.

0:11:09 > 0:11:12He'd be going around his rabbit traps in daylight

0:11:12 > 0:11:13and coming home when it got dark.

0:11:13 > 0:11:16How much land, roughly, would he have been in charge of?

0:11:16 > 0:11:18- Around 4,000 acres. - That's a lot.- A lot of ground.

0:11:18 > 0:11:21- But he would have some assistants. - But no 4x4...

0:11:21 > 0:11:23- No 4x4.- ..to drive around in?- No.

0:11:23 > 0:11:27His feet or a pushbike, or perhaps sometimes a pony and trap.

0:11:27 > 0:11:30And would he have been regarded with a lot of respect?

0:11:30 > 0:11:32- Would people have looked up to him? - Oh, yes.

0:11:32 > 0:11:35As a gamekeeper, you had some status in the countryside.

0:11:35 > 0:11:37- Really?- Without a doubt. The same as a policeman.

0:11:37 > 0:11:39And what sort of jobs would he have to do?

0:11:39 > 0:11:42- What would be the tougher of the jobs?- Well, catching poachers.

0:11:42 > 0:11:44- Really? - Poaching was rife in those days.

0:11:44 > 0:11:46He'd have to be out at night with his truncheon.

0:11:46 > 0:11:49- And how much force could he use?- Oh, as much as possible.- Really?- Yes.

0:11:49 > 0:11:52You always had a local magistrate on your side, you know.

0:11:52 > 0:11:54So when you got him into court,

0:11:54 > 0:11:56there was always a shooting man on the bench.

0:11:56 > 0:11:58- So there was no mercy.- OK.

0:11:58 > 0:12:00They'd get a big fine or a tough prison sentence

0:12:00 > 0:12:01for poaching a pheasant in those days.

0:12:01 > 0:12:03So, as head keeper,

0:12:03 > 0:12:08would he have mixed with the higher class in society down at the house?

0:12:08 > 0:12:10Oh, yes. And he wouldn't have been tongue-tied.

0:12:10 > 0:12:13- Really?- He'd been working with them for so long, he'd become part of it.

0:12:13 > 0:12:16- Oh, OK.- Oh, yes, indeed.- Any royalty that would visit...?- Oh, yes.

0:12:16 > 0:12:18- He'd maybe meet them?- Oh, yes.

0:12:18 > 0:12:20He knew how to greet the dignitaries, for sure.

0:12:20 > 0:12:24So, living here with his family, would his son Thomas,

0:12:24 > 0:12:27- would Thomas have been involved in helping out?- Yes, without a doubt.

0:12:27 > 0:12:30As soon as he was big enough to get out with his father, he'd be there.

0:12:30 > 0:12:34He went away at the age of 10. Would he have been helping before that?

0:12:34 > 0:12:37- He would still be there.- Really? - Eight, nine would be quite...

0:12:37 > 0:12:40- Out there grafting with his dad? - Oh, yes, without a doubt.

0:12:40 > 0:12:43- It's tough!- Very tough, very tough.

0:12:43 > 0:12:46Griffith may have had a tough job,

0:12:46 > 0:12:49but he did have this beautiful cottage to come home to each day.

0:12:50 > 0:12:54He shared this home with his wife Elizabeth and their many children.

0:12:54 > 0:12:58Including son Thomas, Iwan's great-great-grandfather,

0:12:58 > 0:13:00who became a grocer.

0:13:00 > 0:13:02Genealogist Mike Churchill-ones

0:13:02 > 0:13:06has uncovered a book detailing the life of Thomas.

0:13:06 > 0:13:10The first bit I'd like you to read is basically the author's view

0:13:10 > 0:13:13on the fact that he wasn't educated,

0:13:13 > 0:13:16- only under an apprenticeship.- Yeah.

0:13:16 > 0:13:21But what it meant, if he'd had a better education...

0:13:21 > 0:13:24"If Thomas Thomas had had an education

0:13:24 > 0:13:26"such as the one we received today,

0:13:26 > 0:13:29"I'm almost certain that the parish

0:13:29 > 0:13:35"would not have enjoyed the precious services of this cultured peasant."

0:13:35 > 0:13:37Yeah, it's unbelievable.

0:13:37 > 0:13:41I'm proud because... with that lack of education,

0:13:41 > 0:13:44- how well he did for himself. - Absolutely right.

0:13:44 > 0:13:46I'd love to have met him in the modern days

0:13:46 > 0:13:48and seen what he could have achieved...

0:13:48 > 0:13:50- Absolutely.- ..in today's society.

0:13:50 > 0:13:53- Because he was obviously a very driven man.- Yeah.

0:13:53 > 0:13:59He became a magistrate, but before that, he sat on the local council.

0:13:59 > 0:14:05And fundamentally, he believed in looking after his constituents.

0:14:05 > 0:14:08- He did everything he could for them. - Yeah.

0:14:08 > 0:14:11So, basically, there's a little write-up here about,

0:14:11 > 0:14:14er...Thomas and the way he was in the council.

0:14:15 > 0:14:19"It's true Thomas was never afraid to give his point of view

0:14:19 > 0:14:23"and he was not afraid of a fight when his principles were at stake.

0:14:24 > 0:14:27"No reed was shaken by its wind.

0:14:27 > 0:14:31"He proved his strength in fighting for what was fair

0:14:31 > 0:14:33"and just for the welfare of the masses.

0:14:33 > 0:14:36"This is the sort of person that's required today."

0:14:36 > 0:14:37What do you think of him, then?

0:14:37 > 0:14:40You're getting bit more of an idea of what he is.

0:14:40 > 0:14:43We knew he was a hard worker, but he was a people's person, as well.

0:14:43 > 0:14:45And that's nice to read that.

0:14:45 > 0:14:48He's the type of person that we need to see more of...

0:14:48 > 0:14:50- Indeed.- ..in today's society, so...

0:14:50 > 0:14:51Do you know, the strange thing,

0:14:51 > 0:14:54there's nothing mentioned in this write-up about the slate mine.

0:14:54 > 0:14:55Nothing whatsoever.

0:14:55 > 0:14:58It talks in glowing terms of everything else in his life,

0:14:58 > 0:15:00but there's not any mention of this.

0:15:00 > 0:15:03Because everything I see about him so far, I think he's great,

0:15:03 > 0:15:06but in my head, I'm thinking, "What about the mine?"

0:15:06 > 0:15:08I just want to know what happened.

0:15:11 > 0:15:15It's so nice visiting this house, to think Griffith lived here,

0:15:15 > 0:15:18worked from here, at such a beautiful location.

0:15:18 > 0:15:20And more to the point,

0:15:20 > 0:15:22to discover that Thomas was born in this house, as well.

0:15:22 > 0:15:25It's just got so much family heritage to me.

0:15:25 > 0:15:28It feels...it feels really nice being able to visit somewhere

0:15:28 > 0:15:31that was so important to my history.

0:15:31 > 0:15:34Everything I've heard about Thomas from my parents

0:15:34 > 0:15:35is about the slate mine.

0:15:35 > 0:15:39But everything we've read about him, there's no mention of it.

0:15:39 > 0:15:43So the grey area's becoming even greyer to me because did it exist?

0:15:43 > 0:15:46Did he own it? Was it a bad venture for him?

0:15:46 > 0:15:48Is that why it's not reported?

0:15:48 > 0:15:51So I still need to find out the truth about this slate mine.

0:15:51 > 0:15:55What happened? Why was it a part of his life, if it was at all?

0:15:55 > 0:15:59Iwan will soon discover the truth about Thomas' mine.

0:15:59 > 0:16:02But first, he's going to learn about

0:16:02 > 0:16:04someone on his mother's paternal side.

0:16:04 > 0:16:07Iwan's great-great-grandfather Evan Davies

0:16:07 > 0:16:10worked as a toll collector in Lampeter in the 1880s.

0:16:12 > 0:16:14Evan lived in a toll house similar to this

0:16:14 > 0:16:17with his wife Mary and their young daughter.

0:16:18 > 0:16:22This one was designed by famous Scottish architect, Thomas Telford.

0:16:22 > 0:16:26Tolls and toll houses were very unpopular in the 19th century,

0:16:26 > 0:16:29with the famous Rebecca Riots leading to the destruction

0:16:29 > 0:16:32of many toll houses in Wales in the 1840s.

0:16:34 > 0:16:39Iwan is visiting this toll house to speak with historian Jan Stevenson

0:16:39 > 0:16:42to discover more about Evan and Mary's lives.

0:16:42 > 0:16:45So a toll collector back in the day wasn't popular.

0:16:45 > 0:16:47That hasn't changed for me, I'll be honest.

0:16:47 > 0:16:49I now live in Southampton, a little village outside.

0:16:49 > 0:16:52And every time I want to go into town, I go over a toll bridge

0:16:52 > 0:16:55which was meant to pay for itself after one year.

0:16:55 > 0:16:57The council still take money 20 years on.

0:16:57 > 0:17:00So in my eyes, every day, I curse the toll collector.

0:17:00 > 0:17:02£1.20 it costs me, there and back.

0:17:02 > 0:17:04That's exactly how the Welsh people felt.

0:17:04 > 0:17:06Particularly with the Rebecca Riots,

0:17:06 > 0:17:10where, in the early years, they actually attacked toll houses.

0:17:10 > 0:17:14So, Evan would've come up against some resistance in his line of work?

0:17:14 > 0:17:16It wasn't a popular job.

0:17:16 > 0:17:18Think of a traffic warden today.

0:17:18 > 0:17:22We need them, but nobody's very fond of them when they get a ticket.

0:17:22 > 0:17:24It's a similar feeling when you're charged at a toll.

0:17:24 > 0:17:26Was it well-paid, or...?

0:17:26 > 0:17:28They looked after you because if they didn't,

0:17:28 > 0:17:31there was a chance you might abscond with the money.

0:17:31 > 0:17:33If you're taking money off everyone every day,

0:17:33 > 0:17:35you've got to keep a note of that.

0:17:35 > 0:17:38- You could easily be a little backhanded with that.- Yep.

0:17:38 > 0:17:41So, is this a job he would've kept for the rest of his life?

0:17:41 > 0:17:44- By the 1890s, it's finished. - Toll roads were gone?

0:17:44 > 0:17:46It's really gone from general roads.

0:17:46 > 0:17:49So, Evan and his family would have then had to be evicted

0:17:49 > 0:17:52- and found somewhere to live? - They would've found another job.

0:17:52 > 0:17:55I mean, if he'd kept his reputation as being honest,

0:17:55 > 0:17:59then I'm sure he wouldn't have any difficulty finding another job.

0:17:59 > 0:18:02Everything I'm finding out so far about my family is honesty

0:18:02 > 0:18:04and hardworking.

0:18:04 > 0:18:06- Good. - Must have come right down to me!

0:18:06 > 0:18:08SHE LAUGHS

0:18:09 > 0:18:12Iwan is now returning to the Thomas line of his family tree.

0:18:13 > 0:18:18Thomas Thomas' grandparents were Griffith and Ann Thomas.

0:18:18 > 0:18:19And they endured multiple tragedies

0:18:19 > 0:18:21in the early part of the 19th century.

0:18:23 > 0:18:27Genealogist Mike Churchill-Jones has searched the parish archives

0:18:27 > 0:18:29and discovered that Griffith and Ann

0:18:29 > 0:18:32were longing to have another son to pass on the name Griffith.

0:18:32 > 0:18:35And they succeeded in the year 1823.

0:18:35 > 0:18:39But then we move along to the burial register here in Llandderfel

0:18:39 > 0:18:46and it's 1826 and we come down to Griffith Thomas, April 8th,

0:18:46 > 0:18:48three years old. He's buried.

0:18:48 > 0:18:50He died when he was three years old?

0:18:50 > 0:18:51Yeah. Very tragic for them.

0:18:54 > 0:18:56- Do we know how he died? Does it say? - We don't, unfortunately.

0:18:56 > 0:18:58I tried, but I couldn't find out anything.

0:18:58 > 0:19:00But still, a very tragic experience for them.

0:19:00 > 0:19:02That's so sad. Look on here.

0:19:02 > 0:19:06- You've got 92-year-old, 63-year-old, 90-year-old, three.- Yeah.

0:19:06 > 0:19:11So...Ann at the time when she lost her three-year-old son,

0:19:11 > 0:19:13Griffith, she was pregnant.

0:19:15 > 0:19:20- They then named their next son, their fourth son, Griffith.- After...

0:19:20 > 0:19:22After the little child that's just died.

0:19:26 > 0:19:29So, he was born, what, within nine months of his brother dying?

0:19:29 > 0:19:31- Less than that.- Less?

0:19:31 > 0:19:34- Yeah.- Oh.

0:19:34 > 0:19:36- That's sad.- It is very sad.

0:19:36 > 0:19:41- So he was baptised in this church. - Right here?- Right here.

0:19:41 > 0:19:43- The font is there.- Right there?

0:19:45 > 0:19:47- I can touch it.- You can do.

0:19:49 > 0:19:53On September 23rd, 1826.

0:19:53 > 0:19:55But if we go back to that other burial register

0:19:55 > 0:20:00and we go down to the bottom here, we find that he's buried here.

0:20:00 > 0:20:02On September 28th.

0:20:02 > 0:20:04Hold on a minute. Go back.

0:20:04 > 0:20:06So they've lost another son called Griffith.

0:20:08 > 0:20:13- Oh, so that... The second boy...then died.- The child she was carrying,

0:20:13 > 0:20:16she gave birth to him and he died. He was approximately ten days old.

0:20:16 > 0:20:18No way?!

0:20:18 > 0:20:24- So both Griffiths died...within a year of each other?- Indeed.

0:20:25 > 0:20:29- Oh, that's so sad. Ten days? - It's very sad, isn't it?

0:20:29 > 0:20:35To lose two children...one named after the last one.

0:20:35 > 0:20:38- A tragic, tragic...- Horrendous. - Horrendous for her.

0:20:40 > 0:20:42That's horrible.

0:20:43 > 0:20:49But...on a brighter note these are the baptisms for 1829.

0:20:49 > 0:20:51Because they tried again,

0:20:51 > 0:20:55and for the third time they named their son Griffith.

0:20:55 > 0:20:57And this time...he survived.

0:20:57 > 0:21:02- So, eventually, we do have a Griffith coming out of it.- Wow!

0:21:03 > 0:21:06- And it starts your line all the way down to here.- That's weird, That's three...

0:21:06 > 0:21:09Oh, poor...poor family,

0:21:09 > 0:21:12to lose two kids within five months of each other.

0:21:12 > 0:21:16Griffith and Ann's surviving child became Iwan's

0:21:16 > 0:21:20three-times great-grandfather, the father of Thomas Thomas.

0:21:22 > 0:21:25So there is joy to come out of it in some way.

0:21:26 > 0:21:29Iwan is now continuing his search for the truth

0:21:29 > 0:21:32behind his great-great-grandfather Thomas Thomas.

0:21:32 > 0:21:36He already knows Thomas owned a number of grocery shops,

0:21:36 > 0:21:40but did he really make a fortune from slate?

0:21:40 > 0:21:43Iwan is visiting the village of Dinmael near Bala,

0:21:43 > 0:21:48where entrepreneur Thomas owned several houses, including this one,

0:21:48 > 0:21:52which Iwan visited many times as a child to see his great-uncle.

0:21:53 > 0:21:56He's now returning for the first time in many years.

0:21:56 > 0:21:59The house is now owned by Malcolm Clements

0:21:59 > 0:22:02and he's heard a number of local legends concerning Thomas,

0:22:02 > 0:22:05one of those stories about a slate mine.

0:22:07 > 0:22:13He was shown some samples of slate, good quality slate, which could be found in the mine,

0:22:13 > 0:22:15but they believe it was a bit of a con

0:22:15 > 0:22:20- and that the slate didn't come from there, it came from somewhere else. - No!

0:22:20 > 0:22:23So they bought the mine, they started working it,

0:22:23 > 0:22:27and they then found out that the quality was very poor.

0:22:27 > 0:22:29- So he was ripped off?- Yes.

0:22:29 > 0:22:33- It's a bit like when you get one of those dodgy TVs and you get home and the box is full of bricks.- Yeah.

0:22:33 > 0:22:36- One of them ones?- Yeah.- Oh, no! So what, the mine...

0:22:36 > 0:22:39he could operate there, but then when he got the slate out

0:22:39 > 0:22:41it was nowhere near the quality of what he was shown?

0:22:41 > 0:22:45- Yeah, that's it.- That's terrible! - Yeah.- So he lost his fortune?

0:22:45 > 0:22:47Ploughed his money into the mine and it was dodgy?

0:22:47 > 0:22:50I should imagine Thomas Thomas never actually lost his fortune,

0:22:50 > 0:22:53- but he maybe took a hit on that one. - Wow!

0:22:53 > 0:22:58So in terms of wealth back in the... Who would he be today?

0:22:58 > 0:23:00Would he be like one of the Dragons or something?

0:23:00 > 0:23:03How successful was he? Put it in...today's terms.

0:23:03 > 0:23:07He'd be one of the premier people in the area,

0:23:07 > 0:23:10one of the top businessmen, because he did own so much.

0:23:10 > 0:23:15- Yeah.- He's a merchant of many kinds, five shops,

0:23:15 > 0:23:20five, six, at one time seven houses.

0:23:20 > 0:23:24I think that's why he is in some ways, next to yourself perhaps,

0:23:24 > 0:23:27- he's the character of the family. - No, he's a bigger character than me.

0:23:27 > 0:23:29- All my life growing up all I heard about was him.- Yeah.

0:23:29 > 0:23:34- As in I knew he must have done something and I knew he must be an important man.- Hmm.

0:23:34 > 0:23:38But speaking to you now and the stuff I'm finding out on this journey,

0:23:38 > 0:23:41yeah, I'm really impressed with what he's done.

0:23:43 > 0:23:45And before Iwan heads off,

0:23:45 > 0:23:49he just has to look around the home he visited as a child.

0:23:49 > 0:23:53My memories are really weird as a kid, I remember some stuff clearly and other stuff I don't.

0:23:53 > 0:23:56But, for some reason, I remember being in this room.

0:23:56 > 0:23:58It wasn't, obviously, decorated like this,

0:23:58 > 0:24:01but it was a bit of a family gathering and we were all sitting around chatting.

0:24:01 > 0:24:04I can't remember what we were talking about,

0:24:04 > 0:24:08but I remember for definite coming into this room.

0:24:08 > 0:24:11What's weird is I remember this corridor, this hallway.

0:24:11 > 0:24:14I know it's different because you're small, but I remember this being massive.

0:24:14 > 0:24:18I do remember feeling that it's just big.

0:24:18 > 0:24:20And I remember the stairs, the floor.

0:24:20 > 0:24:24I mean, these are big stairs anyway, but I do remember as a kid thinking they were massive,

0:24:24 > 0:24:27like, it would take me all day to get up there.

0:24:34 > 0:24:38So my one memory of coming upstairs wasn't the best of memories

0:24:38 > 0:24:40cos it was to do with the attic.

0:24:40 > 0:24:43I remember where it is. It's here.

0:24:43 > 0:24:46Do you know what, I didn't go up there as a kid...

0:24:46 > 0:24:49and I'm not going up there now. Too spooky.

0:24:53 > 0:24:59So is the story Iwan just heard simply a work of family legend?

0:25:00 > 0:25:04The answer will soon be revealed, but before Iwan leaves Dinmeal,

0:25:04 > 0:25:06he wants to visit the grave of Thomas Thomas,

0:25:06 > 0:25:11who died in 1937 at the age of 78.

0:25:11 > 0:25:15I'm really intrigued to find out more about Thomas and the slate mine,

0:25:15 > 0:25:19because to hear that he may been ripped off business-wise is quite sad.

0:25:19 > 0:25:22It seems to me that he's done so well for himself and worked hard to get where he has,

0:25:22 > 0:25:26and then to go into this business venture and for it to go sour is quite sad.

0:25:26 > 0:25:31So I want to find out the truth about that. I want to, hopefully, see the slate quarry, the mine,

0:25:31 > 0:25:37and where he worked and where he bought, and whether it was a bad business move for him.

0:25:37 > 0:25:38I'm quite intrigued by it all.

0:25:45 > 0:25:47And before Iwan leaves north Wales,

0:25:47 > 0:25:50he can now have the answer to that question.

0:25:52 > 0:25:56Did Thomas Thomas, entrepreneur, grocer and politician,

0:25:56 > 0:25:58actually own a slate mine?

0:26:00 > 0:26:04Several miles outside of Bala is the mountainous region of Ffestiniog

0:26:04 > 0:26:07and the answer lies here.

0:26:07 > 0:26:10Historian and slate expert, David Gwyn,

0:26:10 > 0:26:12has been looking into this claim

0:26:12 > 0:26:15and has asked Iwan to meet him at this location.

0:26:16 > 0:26:20Although this part of north Wales has dramatic views,

0:26:20 > 0:26:22there's only one question on Iwan's mind.

0:26:22 > 0:26:26So my whole childhood and throughout the whole of this documentary,

0:26:26 > 0:26:31the myth, the mystery, is it true? Isn't it true? Did Thomas Thomas own a quarry?

0:26:31 > 0:26:34- And if he did, tell me this is it. - This is the quarry, yes.

0:26:34 > 0:26:37It's a mine, really, but they're always called quarries

0:26:37 > 0:26:39even when they're worked underground.

0:26:40 > 0:26:46This original document is a contract between Thomas and a John Williams.

0:26:46 > 0:26:49Thomas is signing up to become the major leaseholder

0:26:49 > 0:26:53of Foel Gron quarry in January 1906.

0:26:53 > 0:26:56This second page shows he was agreeing

0:26:56 > 0:27:00to lease the land for 31 years at a cost of £100 per year,

0:27:00 > 0:27:03almost £11,000 in today's money.

0:27:03 > 0:27:05Well, there's rumours it lost him money, it cost him money.

0:27:05 > 0:27:09There's rumours that he did purchase it, or however it worked,

0:27:09 > 0:27:11and his money went downhill. I don't know if that's true or not?

0:27:11 > 0:27:13Well, you've just got to look at the rock

0:27:13 > 0:27:16and you can see that it's not actually very good quality,

0:27:16 > 0:27:19you couldn't get much decent slate out of that.

0:27:19 > 0:27:22And by 1907, there simply wasn't the demand for slate.

0:27:22 > 0:27:28Slate last for hundreds of years, every roof in England had been built by then, so there wasn't the demand.

0:27:28 > 0:27:32I'm not that concerned. In terms of everything he's done, he seems to have done really well for himself.

0:27:32 > 0:27:35I'm just delighted that the rumours are true,

0:27:35 > 0:27:38that there is a connection to maybe not such great slate

0:27:38 > 0:27:41but the slate right over there. Which is brilliant for me.

0:27:41 > 0:27:44This is where he was at work, yes, there's no doubt about that.

0:27:44 > 0:27:46- Thank you for your information. - You're welcome.

0:27:46 > 0:27:49- It's made my day, it really has. - Great.

0:27:49 > 0:27:52Iwan's time in Wales is almost at an end,

0:27:52 > 0:27:56so how has this journey into his past affected him?

0:27:58 > 0:28:00I already feel properly Welsh,

0:28:00 > 0:28:03but by doing this I somehow feel even more Welsh,

0:28:03 > 0:28:07really in tune with my mother's side of the family.

0:28:07 > 0:28:11And the questions about Iwan's great-great-grandfather Thomas

0:28:11 > 0:28:13have finally been answered.

0:28:13 > 0:28:16I was desperate to find out about Thomas Thomas.

0:28:16 > 0:28:19Everything I'd heard about him has literally turned out to be true.

0:28:19 > 0:28:21It's been a great experience. I've loved every minute of it.