The Industrial Landscape

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0:00:03 > 0:00:07One of the earliest recollections I have as a small boy, is on a summer's evening,

0:00:07 > 0:00:11the many chimney stacks that stood up round Burnden Park

0:00:11 > 0:00:14and smoke drifting out the tops of 'em.

0:00:14 > 0:00:16To me, it were quite romantic, you know,

0:00:16 > 0:00:19bit unhealthy, but quite romantic.

0:00:19 > 0:00:24And then on a winter's night, where they had a nightshift on in a big mill.

0:00:24 > 0:00:29When you went and looked through the windows, the hundreds of yards of line shafting

0:00:29 > 0:00:32all howling round, all like chromium plate.

0:00:52 > 0:00:57Fred Dibnah will always be remembered for his passions for steeplejacking and steam

0:00:57 > 0:01:01and for his love for the industrial landscape

0:01:01 > 0:01:05that surrounded him when he was growing up in Bolton in the 1940s.

0:01:06 > 0:01:12It appealed to him a great deal, the Bolton of the 1930s and 40s and 50s.

0:01:12 > 0:01:15Really because it was his own territory,

0:01:15 > 0:01:18it was something that he was familiar with.

0:01:18 > 0:01:19See the boilers!

0:01:19 > 0:01:23If he could've turned back the clock he would have lived in those times,

0:01:23 > 0:01:28in the 30s or 40s being something like an engine driver

0:01:28 > 0:01:32in a weaving mill, spinning mill, something like that,

0:01:32 > 0:01:37but it was, it was at the very root of Fred that was engrained into him

0:01:37 > 0:01:43and part of his psyche and who he felt he was.

0:01:43 > 0:01:49As Fred was growing up Britain was still the most urbanised and industrialised nation in the world,

0:01:49 > 0:01:54accounting for a quarter of world trade in manufacturing.

0:01:54 > 0:01:58It is an era that is almost forgotten. But Fred reminded us of it.

0:01:58 > 0:02:02As a small boy I were always over-inquisitive, you know

0:02:02 > 0:02:06like climbing over fences and getting in places where you shouldn't really be.

0:02:06 > 0:02:09And I used to discover all sorts of things, you know,

0:02:09 > 0:02:11quite close by to where I lived...

0:02:11 > 0:02:14A beautiful water wheel with a tree growing through it

0:02:14 > 0:02:17but they still had a steam engine, you know,

0:02:17 > 0:02:22so the steam engines and the water wheels, for a brief period worked side-by-side.

0:02:31 > 0:02:36Fred would wander round the streets, I'm sure, and wander into boiler houses and engine houses

0:02:36 > 0:02:40and he'd talk for hours and listen.

0:02:40 > 0:02:43He had a gift of listening as well as talking.

0:02:43 > 0:02:48And gaining friendships and acquaintanceships, particularly with old men, old knowledgeable men.

0:02:51 > 0:02:55With his younger brother, Graham, he'd go to play down by the old mill lodges.

0:02:57 > 0:03:02We'd go fishing and our kid and his mate were for ever making rafts

0:03:02 > 0:03:04and sailing on these rafts, like

0:03:04 > 0:03:09and on t'lodges...and we had really good times.

0:03:09 > 0:03:13And he used to make in the old factory at the bottom...

0:03:13 > 0:03:16He used to make a lot of like, dens

0:03:16 > 0:03:21and we used to go and sit like, and have a quick cig and what have you.

0:03:21 > 0:03:26But when it come time for demolishing the chimneys,

0:03:26 > 0:03:28he sat there on t'bank of these lodges

0:03:28 > 0:03:34all day, from getting up in t' morning, till they finished at five o'clock.

0:03:34 > 0:03:36And he used to watch them all t'time,

0:03:36 > 0:03:40knocking down these chimneys and he used to come home and say to me mother,

0:03:40 > 0:03:43"I'm gonna be a steeplejack, I want to be a steeplejack,"

0:03:43 > 0:03:46and my mother said, "You're joking. You must be mad."

0:03:46 > 0:03:51Anyway, unbeknownst to us, that's what he were doing.

0:03:51 > 0:03:57In the 60 years since then our urban and industrial landscape has changed dramatically

0:03:57 > 0:04:00as whole industries have disappeared.

0:04:00 > 0:04:02But Fred's memories stayed with him

0:04:02 > 0:04:07and became the biggest influence on his life and work.

0:04:07 > 0:04:11I remember as a lad of about 16 or 17,

0:04:11 > 0:04:16eh, rather full of fear, climbing up the engine house steps

0:04:16 > 0:04:21and looking at the thing going round through the window

0:04:21 > 0:04:27and seeing the engine minder in an easy chair, snoozing. He wouldn't really be asleep,

0:04:27 > 0:04:34he'd be listening for any strange change in the pattern of noise that were coming from the thing,

0:04:34 > 0:04:39which of course donated something were going wrong, there were a different noise started appearing.

0:04:39 > 0:04:45Steam comes through this big red pipe into the high pressure cylinder.

0:04:45 > 0:04:47Well, when it's been dealt with in there,

0:04:47 > 0:04:52it goes through another pipe underneath the bottom of the engine

0:04:52 > 0:04:54and back into the low pressure cylinder.

0:04:54 > 0:04:56When it's been finished with in there

0:04:56 > 0:05:02it goes into the condenser where it's turned back into water again.

0:05:02 > 0:05:06Now this is the piston rod that pushes the crosshead -

0:05:06 > 0:05:10that's this bit that we can hardly keep up with -

0:05:10 > 0:05:13that works the connecting rod that turns round the big end.

0:05:13 > 0:05:18This is the big end - a lot bigger than the big end in your motor car!

0:05:20 > 0:05:23He grew up with fantastic machinery to look at

0:05:23 > 0:05:26and he could also see all the mills, all the mill chimneys.

0:05:26 > 0:05:31It must have been, for him, it must have been absolutely fantastic

0:05:31 > 0:05:35to have been growing up with the industry that was here.

0:05:35 > 0:05:38We had engineering works and we had all the cotton mills.

0:05:40 > 0:05:44Well, it's quite dangerous, really. It is, yeah.

0:05:44 > 0:05:48Get trapped in between... You were piecing up like... Yeah.

0:05:48 > 0:05:51The pieces ends up like there. Yeah.

0:05:52 > 0:05:58And I bet you were somewhat of an expert knot-tier? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

0:05:58 > 0:06:03Do they often break? Yeah. Yeah. If it's spinning bad they're breaking down all t'time.

0:06:03 > 0:06:09And that's what you've got to do. Yeah. On here with piecework, you've got to keep them going. Yeah.

0:06:09 > 0:06:11We used to get us wage in one wage packet

0:06:11 > 0:06:15and then we used to share it on a Thursday. Yeah, yeah.

0:06:15 > 0:06:21What with all the ones who cleaned all the... Oh, yeah. Between all the spinners? Yeah.

0:06:21 > 0:06:24What they called piecers.

0:06:24 > 0:06:25Like little piecers. That's right.

0:06:25 > 0:06:28They were like apprentices. Yeah.

0:06:28 > 0:06:32But... When it's coming out it's spinning. Yeah.

0:06:32 > 0:06:34It's putting twists in. Yeah.

0:06:34 > 0:06:38It's coming off this top... Yeah...yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:06:38 > 0:06:41And you'll see it. All the wattles stop. Yeah.

0:06:43 > 0:06:46Now, they go that way. Yeah. And then...

0:06:46 > 0:06:47It's winding on. That's right!

0:06:47 > 0:06:51Oh, they're brilliant. Very clever, eh?

0:06:51 > 0:06:55Yeah, they didn't know what they were doing them men, did they when did this?

0:06:55 > 0:06:57They used to say, in t'olden days,

0:06:57 > 0:07:01"England's bread hangs on Lancashire's thread." Yeah.

0:07:01 > 0:07:04And they spun enough before breakfast

0:07:04 > 0:07:09to do the whole of England and rest of t'day were for the empire.

0:07:09 > 0:07:13Fred's passion for the history of the places he showed us on TV

0:07:13 > 0:07:19actually really raised public interest and made people want to go and visit.

0:07:19 > 0:07:22There's so much of our industrial history around us

0:07:22 > 0:07:26and it's part of what makes us what we are

0:07:26 > 0:07:29and what made Britain what it is today.

0:07:29 > 0:07:33Em...it's something that we should be interested in.

0:07:33 > 0:07:37And Fred had a talent for making that really interesting for people.

0:07:37 > 0:07:40This is Burnley and this is Queen Street Mill.

0:07:40 > 0:07:45They were very famous for weaving and this is a great weaving shed

0:07:45 > 0:07:50and if you really want to get the feel of what it's like in a steam-driven weaving shed

0:07:50 > 0:07:53this, without a doubt, is the place to come.

0:07:57 > 0:08:00WEAVING MACHINE CLACKS

0:08:05 > 0:08:07It were all hustle and bustle.

0:08:07 > 0:08:11All t'cotton mills were going, engineering works, gas works...

0:08:14 > 0:08:16..very busy. Eh...

0:08:16 > 0:08:20and you know, you went out t'work in t'morning,

0:08:20 > 0:08:24get to t'bus stop and two buses'd go past - full.

0:08:24 > 0:08:27You'd no chance of gettin' on 'em.

0:08:27 > 0:08:29'Course there weren't as many cars then.

0:08:29 > 0:08:33A time when you could knock on any door

0:08:33 > 0:08:39and get a job and they'd say, "Can you start now?"

0:08:39 > 0:08:45Going to work in t'morning in the 50s. I started in '53.

0:08:45 > 0:08:50And everybody had clogs on and clump on t'bus at six o'clock in the morning - quarter to six,

0:08:50 > 0:08:53catch six o'clock bus from Wigan.

0:08:53 > 0:08:56Walking down Scholes Brew must have woken everybody up -

0:08:56 > 0:08:5950, 60 men all walking down with clogs on.

0:08:59 > 0:09:05Even girls going to work same in t'mills cos they started at six. Was like middle of t'day

0:09:05 > 0:09:08especially on Market Square where all t'buses were.

0:09:08 > 0:09:11There were hundreds of people knocking about.

0:09:11 > 0:09:15Not like now, you go now at six o'clock in t'morning, there's nobody there.

0:09:15 > 0:09:17They're all still in bed.

0:09:17 > 0:09:21There's a super tale that comes to me mind.

0:09:21 > 0:09:24One day I were mending a chimney and the engineer at the mill...

0:09:24 > 0:09:28This particular engine were in a weaving mill similar to this

0:09:28 > 0:09:31and you've heard how these gears roar and all that...

0:09:31 > 0:09:36Well, if you can imagine they've repaired the engine and it's the middle of the night

0:09:36 > 0:09:40and they set the engine on, just to see if everything works all right

0:09:40 > 0:09:45and all the operatives appeared, or most of 'em, them who hadn't got an alarm clock.

0:09:45 > 0:09:50Their lives were totally ruled by the noise of the gearing and the engine.

0:09:50 > 0:09:54When the engine started they thought it was seven o'clock

0:09:54 > 0:09:57and it were three o'clock in the bloody morning.

0:09:57 > 0:10:02They all appeared ready for work at three o'clock in t'morning.

0:10:02 > 0:10:05In an electrically-driven weaving shed,

0:10:05 > 0:10:10there's only the electric motors and the looms making the racket.

0:10:10 > 0:10:13Here, we've already got tons of racket

0:10:13 > 0:10:18just from the bevel gears from the main shaft driven by the steam engine

0:10:18 > 0:10:23driving all these line shaftings and the clack of the belts, you know.

0:10:23 > 0:10:30Should imagine being 14 years old and arriving here on Monday morning

0:10:30 > 0:10:34at half past seven, and being frightened to bloody death with it all.

0:10:34 > 0:10:37I mean, it's unbelievably violent.

0:10:37 > 0:10:44And there's only two looms actually working at this moment in time.

0:10:44 > 0:10:46When all these machines were running

0:10:46 > 0:10:49the decibels must have been unbelievable.

0:10:49 > 0:10:52God knows! No wonder they were all deaf!

0:10:55 > 0:10:58To the general public, unless you'd been in a mill,

0:10:58 > 0:11:01you wouldn't know what was going on and he brought that out

0:11:01 > 0:11:05and he brought out the hard work that a lot of these guys and ladies had to do.

0:11:12 > 0:11:16I don't really think I would ever like to have worked in one of these places, you know.

0:11:16 > 0:11:20Having actually experienced the noise of it all.

0:11:20 > 0:11:24I'm really more interested in the mechanics of it all, you know,

0:11:24 > 0:11:27the engines and the boilers that made it all go.

0:11:33 > 0:11:38The biggest influence on Fred must have been growing up surrounded by

0:11:38 > 0:11:43the Industrial Revolution and its products. There he was, a craftsman

0:11:43 > 0:11:49with his day job as a steeplejack

0:11:49 > 0:11:54and he therefore, went into lots of places, saw lots of things

0:11:54 > 0:11:59when they were just sort of over the top and starting their decline.

0:11:59 > 0:12:03And probably when they were at their most unfashionable.

0:12:03 > 0:12:06The bad old days and when it was all going to be swept away

0:12:06 > 0:12:10and we were all going to be living a life like in an American film.

0:12:10 > 0:12:16And Fred, I think, was somebody who could...

0:12:16 > 0:12:22see that that world and those people he was rubbing up against

0:12:22 > 0:12:25had extraordinary stories to tell.

0:12:25 > 0:12:30I think that really has been a very big influence upon him.

0:12:33 > 0:12:36Hiya, Brian. Hello, Fred, are you all right? Stoking up!

0:12:36 > 0:12:39Yes. Yes. Keep that big wheel going round upstairs. That's true.

0:12:39 > 0:12:44When I were a kid there were bloody hundreds of these. There were three down every street

0:12:44 > 0:12:46and now there's hardly any left.

0:12:46 > 0:12:50It's still nice to see one that actually works, you know.

0:12:50 > 0:12:53There's not so many left that work, is there? No, no.

0:12:53 > 0:12:59What a lot of the people don't realise is the fact that these things used to blow up...

0:12:59 > 0:13:02with unbelievable regularity at the turn of the century,

0:13:02 > 0:13:06until they started with boiler inspecting and all of that.

0:13:06 > 0:13:09They wouldn't bother then with boiler inspections. No, no.

0:13:09 > 0:13:16They were so tight, the mill owners, they didn't like parting with inspection fees and all of that.

0:13:16 > 0:13:20You need some more steam, you'd better put some coal on.

0:13:20 > 0:13:25Well, there you go - there's a shovel for you. You'll have to excuse me if I miss the fire.

0:13:41 > 0:13:45It don't wanna come off the shovel. BRIAN LAUGHS

0:13:46 > 0:13:51I think I'll leave you to it, Fred and I'll go home for my tea now. DOOR CLANGS

0:13:51 > 0:13:57Fred's a very passionate man. Anybody who knows him is overtaken by his enthusiasm.

0:13:57 > 0:14:01He's not an easy bloke to disagree with.

0:14:01 > 0:14:05You get carried along with his enthusiasm for the subject, the machines.

0:14:05 > 0:14:10And you wanna see what it is that excites him so much.

0:14:17 > 0:14:19That were exciting, weren't it?

0:14:19 > 0:14:23BLAST FURNACE CONTINUES TO ROAR

0:14:23 > 0:14:25When I were repairing a chimney

0:14:25 > 0:14:28on foundries, I always used to stop work

0:14:28 > 0:14:34and go and watch this performance of dropping the bottom out of the blast furnace.

0:14:34 > 0:14:38It were always very exciting to me.

0:14:38 > 0:14:43Fred was a great enthusiast and we always enjoyed his visits here.

0:14:43 > 0:14:46He was so knowledgeable of the industry we try to interpret at Ironbridge.

0:14:46 > 0:14:50He also lived through a large part of a century

0:14:50 > 0:14:54when we started trying to knock down the Victorian monuments and he was part of that -

0:14:54 > 0:14:58knocking down the great chimneys of the mills

0:14:58 > 0:15:00and then began to value it.

0:15:00 > 0:15:05And, of course, he was very much involved with the loving restoration of the steam machinery,

0:15:05 > 0:15:08bringing it alive for a wide public.

0:15:08 > 0:15:12And I think he did have that capacity to get to a lot of people

0:15:12 > 0:15:15and bring the subject to life for them.

0:15:15 > 0:15:18Ironbridge gorge in Shropshire

0:15:18 > 0:15:22is probably the most important industrial heritage site in Britain.

0:15:22 > 0:15:28It's regarded as the place where the Industrial Revolution started.

0:15:28 > 0:15:31This is the world's first cast iron bridge.

0:15:31 > 0:15:34Iron were so important round here

0:15:34 > 0:15:39that this place was regarded as the beginning or the cradle of the Industrial Revolution.

0:15:39 > 0:15:42It wasn't just bridges they made here, you know,

0:15:42 > 0:15:46they made here, in this valley, they made the first cast-iron wheels,

0:15:46 > 0:15:49the first cast-iron plate rails,

0:15:49 > 0:15:54cooking pots and even the first locomotive were made here.

0:15:54 > 0:15:59As you can see there's one or two blow holes in the castings,

0:15:59 > 0:16:02they weren't too particular. But really, on the whole,

0:16:02 > 0:16:04the whole thing is beautifully done.

0:16:04 > 0:16:08All held together with dovetails and cotters and iron wedges.

0:16:08 > 0:16:11Very few nuts and bolts, you know.

0:16:11 > 0:16:15It's suffered a bit here and there. There's the odd bracing piece has fractured

0:16:15 > 0:16:20and there's been various attempts to rectify it with iron rods and what have you.

0:16:20 > 0:16:22But the only way I think they could have cast these

0:16:22 > 0:16:26is actually on the floor of the foundry...

0:16:26 > 0:16:30and directly tap the furnace into the mould.

0:16:30 > 0:16:34Perhaps that accounts for all the slag and the rough stuff, you know,

0:16:34 > 0:16:40which normally they would scrape off the top of the molten metal.

0:16:40 > 0:16:43At these museums on the Severn, they reckon the doors are full up,

0:16:43 > 0:16:46people can't wait to get in these industrial museums.

0:16:46 > 0:16:49I'm sure it's because Fred's made them think

0:16:49 > 0:16:53and realise there's beauty in all this ugliness, if you like.

0:16:53 > 0:16:56It weren't ugly. It's ugly to some people

0:16:56 > 0:16:59but not to Fred and not to me. It's beautiful.

0:16:59 > 0:17:04This thing here, made out of a conglomeration of railway lines

0:17:04 > 0:17:09and bits and pieces, is the furnace where they actually got the iron hot

0:17:09 > 0:17:13ready to put either through the rollers or underneath the hammer.

0:17:13 > 0:17:16And it's a magical setup really,

0:17:16 > 0:17:22because the heat that got the iron red hot, the waste heat that went up the flue to the boiler

0:17:22 > 0:17:24which... That boiler is called the Rastrick boiler.

0:17:24 > 0:17:28and it worked off the waste heat from the furnaces.

0:17:28 > 0:17:31I remember all this lot going in Bolton where I live

0:17:31 > 0:17:35and believe me, it were quite an exciting vision watching how it all went.

0:17:35 > 0:17:38First of all, when the signal were given,

0:17:38 > 0:17:41the guy crashed these big tongs into the fire,

0:17:41 > 0:17:45grabbed hold of two hundredweight of red hot iron. Pull 'em out.

0:17:45 > 0:17:50He gotta race off with sparks coming off his clogs - this way!

0:17:50 > 0:17:54METALLIC TRUNDLING Bang!

0:17:54 > 0:17:57And then...

0:17:57 > 0:18:03The guy waiting here with these tongs, he got a hold of the end of it and smashed it into the rollers.

0:18:03 > 0:18:06And then it went through and a man on the other side

0:18:06 > 0:18:09did exactly the same and it come back this way.

0:18:11 > 0:18:13As the tail end of the iron came out of here

0:18:13 > 0:18:16the guy collared it with these things

0:18:16 > 0:18:19and slammed it back into the next opening.

0:18:19 > 0:18:24He actually knew our iron works when it was a functioning iron works in Bolton

0:18:24 > 0:18:30and he used to tell us stories about how things went on at the iron works

0:18:30 > 0:18:36which...some were very surprising, like the fact that there were broken arm chairs quite near the furnaces

0:18:36 > 0:18:39where people would go and relax.

0:18:39 > 0:18:45This lot here is actually the rolling mill that used to be in Bolton where I come from.

0:18:45 > 0:18:50And I well remember seeing the thing work as, you know, as a reasonably young man.

0:18:50 > 0:18:53And it were quite fantastic -

0:18:53 > 0:18:56you had easy chairs and there'd be about six of 'em sat in easy chairs

0:18:56 > 0:18:59and six of 'em shoving the iron into the rollers

0:18:59 > 0:19:03and when they'd done so many passes and they were, like exhausted

0:19:03 > 0:19:05the six sat down would jump up and take over

0:19:05 > 0:19:08and the other six would flop into the easy chairs.

0:19:08 > 0:19:11Some of them went straight to t'pub across t'road.

0:19:11 > 0:19:16There's other things about this machine we've not really dwelled on.

0:19:16 > 0:19:19In that great iron cage at the end,

0:19:19 > 0:19:23there's a coupling that's quite a rocky fit on the shafts.

0:19:23 > 0:19:25And if you put a piece in that weren't hot enough

0:19:25 > 0:19:30it busted the coupling instead of the engine or the roll frames.

0:19:30 > 0:19:34And as soon as it went bang! there were a helluva crack when it broke -

0:19:34 > 0:19:38everybody immediately walked to the sink, washed their hands and went home

0:19:38 > 0:19:42because they knew there'd be no more rolling that day.

0:19:42 > 0:19:45This enthusiasm for industrial history took off after WWII

0:19:45 > 0:19:50and by the 1980s it had become very much an accepted part of our heritage.

0:19:50 > 0:19:55But people like Fred have been very important in changing public perceptions

0:19:55 > 0:19:57and getting a new consensus

0:19:57 > 0:20:00that the great machine shops, the factories,

0:20:00 > 0:20:03the commercial buildings of the Victorian age

0:20:03 > 0:20:07are a very important part of our heritage and should be conserved.

0:20:07 > 0:20:10He was a good spokesman for that, I think.

0:20:12 > 0:20:17Richard Garrett and Sons of Leiston, here in Suffolk, were one of the pioneers in heavy engineering.

0:20:17 > 0:20:20And here in the Long Shop Museum,

0:20:20 > 0:20:24is a grand collection of the products they made

0:20:24 > 0:20:26in the actual building they were made in.

0:20:30 > 0:20:33This place is rather wonderful and unique

0:20:33 > 0:20:38because Richard Garrett manufactured portable engines in here

0:20:38 > 0:20:41and the boilers came in at one end

0:20:41 > 0:20:44and the big bits came in from the sides

0:20:44 > 0:20:47and the small bits were made upstairs

0:20:47 > 0:20:48and lowered down.

0:20:48 > 0:20:50And when the boiler came in at one end

0:20:50 > 0:20:52and all the bits kept going on

0:20:52 > 0:20:55it slowly but surely progressed along and went out the other end

0:20:55 > 0:20:59as a finished product ready for a coat of paint.

0:20:59 > 0:21:03That were a long time before Henry Ford were about.

0:21:03 > 0:21:07I think Fred's passion was his greatest strength and it came over

0:21:07 > 0:21:10in everything he did - when he came here.

0:21:10 > 0:21:13And that brought people into it. They wanted to learn more about it

0:21:13 > 0:21:18because if somebody's that enthusiastic it just spins off onto everyone else.

0:21:18 > 0:21:20It increased our awareness and got us visitors.

0:21:20 > 0:21:24I'm forever getting people contacting me

0:21:24 > 0:21:26or speaking to me in general and saying,

0:21:26 > 0:21:29"Oh, saw you on the TV last night with Fred."

0:21:29 > 0:21:31That helps us and raises the profile. It's great.

0:21:31 > 0:21:38So what were them for? Anchor attachments on ships such as the Titanic. Yeah.

0:21:38 > 0:21:41This is the Black Country Living Museum

0:21:41 > 0:21:43where you can actually see

0:21:43 > 0:21:46craftsmen doing things what they did

0:21:46 > 0:21:49when this was one of the centres of industry in England.

0:21:49 > 0:21:52Today we've got an awful lot of museums around.

0:21:52 > 0:21:55It is sometimes difficult

0:21:55 > 0:21:59to get people who've worked in the industries they portrayed

0:21:59 > 0:22:00to come back again.

0:22:00 > 0:22:07And I think Fred did quite a lot in raising the image of the worker

0:22:07 > 0:22:12and their place and making it OK for people to go back

0:22:12 > 0:22:16and to look on THEIR past as being important.

0:22:16 > 0:22:19How would they go on with one as big as the Titanic anchor chain?

0:22:19 > 0:22:24You'd have a chain maker, chain smith... Yeah..

0:22:24 > 0:22:29..four or five men working hammers - two-man hammers. Yeah.

0:22:29 > 0:22:31That's really important for museums as well,

0:22:31 > 0:22:36that we need to get people who've been involved interested in what they've done

0:22:36 > 0:22:39and realise that it's of great value

0:22:39 > 0:22:42in heritage and historic terms.

0:22:42 > 0:22:46Ladies used to do it, didn't they, a bit?

0:22:46 > 0:22:48In this area by the 1920s,

0:22:48 > 0:22:52there was something like over 6,000 people making chains

0:22:52 > 0:22:54and a third of those being women. Yeah.

0:23:01 > 0:23:03The Black Country Living Museum

0:23:03 > 0:23:07we think has a role to play in the history of the Black Country

0:23:07 > 0:23:10and therefore the cradle of the Industrial Revolution.

0:23:10 > 0:23:13But telling that story's hugely difficult,

0:23:13 > 0:23:15it's so complex, there's so many things involved

0:23:15 > 0:23:18from steam, to canals to buildings.

0:23:18 > 0:23:21And Fred helped us no end in his own way in putting it over.

0:23:21 > 0:23:26And through his enthusiasm, almost convinced us we were doing the right thing.

0:23:26 > 0:23:28I'm sure he did that with lots of other people.

0:23:28 > 0:23:32If somebody was a volunteer in restoring a steam engine or anything else,

0:23:32 > 0:23:38he could make you feel you're the most important person in the world for doing it and we owe him a lot.

0:23:38 > 0:23:41So you don't fancy it for a living then, Fred? No.

0:23:41 > 0:23:44FRED LAUGHS

0:23:44 > 0:23:48I'd never get paid! Well, you was paid by the weight.

0:23:48 > 0:23:51Well, there'd be no chance... I'd be a poor man at the end of the day.

0:23:51 > 0:23:55We'll just do a few improvements on it. Wait a minute.

0:24:02 > 0:24:05There's a big hole in it.

0:24:06 > 0:24:08Another link for the chain for the Titanic.

0:24:10 > 0:24:12No wonder it sunk!

0:24:12 > 0:24:15Fred made industrial history fun.

0:24:15 > 0:24:18But in the process, we got a lot of information from him.

0:24:18 > 0:24:22Up until the 1850s,

0:24:22 > 0:24:26they only really had cast iron, you know,

0:24:26 > 0:24:29and they really needed something a bit tougher

0:24:29 > 0:24:34and along came Henry Bessemer in

0:24:34 > 0:24:38and he invented this thing - like a giant egg cup.

0:24:38 > 0:24:40Basically, what it does is...

0:24:40 > 0:24:44The molten cast iron is poured into the top of it

0:24:44 > 0:24:48and then wind pressure at 25lbs per square inch

0:24:48 > 0:24:51is blasted through the molten cast iron

0:24:51 > 0:24:54which takes all the impurities out of it.

0:24:54 > 0:24:57And when they run it off from here,

0:24:57 > 0:25:01into ingots, it can be put underneath the steam hammer

0:25:01 > 0:25:05and forged into big blocks that can be put through rolling mills

0:25:05 > 0:25:08and made into things like railway lines

0:25:08 > 0:25:11and wheels for railway wagons.

0:25:12 > 0:25:17This is Kelham Island Museum here in Sheffield,

0:25:17 > 0:25:22which Sheffield, as everybody knows, is a...is a world famous city for steel making,

0:25:22 > 0:25:25still is, you know.

0:25:25 > 0:25:28I think I'll go in and have a look round.

0:25:30 > 0:25:35Sheffield's always been associated with quality steel products

0:25:35 > 0:25:38especially like this here, Sheffield plate

0:25:38 > 0:25:40and of course tools, you know.

0:25:40 > 0:25:44They made all the best cutting tool in the world.

0:25:44 > 0:25:50Tools for lathe turning, for surgeo for sawing your legs off and things like that

0:25:50 > 0:25:54and, really, unless you've tried buying a pair of Taiwanese scissors

0:25:54 > 0:25:58and comparing them with a pair of scissors made in Sheffield

0:25:58 > 0:26:00you don't know you've lived, believe me.

0:26:00 > 0:26:04It...it's... I've got a pair of scissors made in Sheffield

0:26:04 > 0:26:07that I left on top of a wall for tw years once

0:26:07 > 0:26:10and when I found them again they we rusted solid,

0:26:10 > 0:26:12put a bit of oil on and they still cut to this day

0:26:12 > 0:26:16better than the bloody Taiwanese ones do.

0:26:16 > 0:26:21The feeling that we should be guilty of our past, our industrial might,

0:26:21 > 0:26:24our empire, I think is beginning to fade.

0:26:24 > 0:26:27I know it was politically incorrect for many years

0:26:27 > 0:26:32but I feel certain that people like Fred Dibnah's portrayal of our industrial strength -

0:26:32 > 0:26:35the characters, the people and the social history behind it

0:26:35 > 0:26:38which for good or bad made us the country we are -

0:26:38 > 0:26:41I think that was a very important contribution.

0:26:41 > 0:26:45It's no longer, I don't think, something we should be guilty of.

0:26:45 > 0:26:49We recognise the weaknesses and strengths of the past

0:26:49 > 0:26:51but we don't need necessarily to be ashamed of them.

0:26:51 > 0:26:54The subject need no longer be a taboo one.

0:26:57 > 0:26:59Getting nearer.

0:26:59 > 0:27:01Fred, he had a great saying,

0:27:01 > 0:27:06"Everything I like in life is either heavy, dirty or dangerous."

0:27:06 > 0:27:09And that weighed Fred up to a tee really

0:27:09 > 0:27:13and I don't know where... I think he thought I were all three!

0:27:15 > 0:27:19Going back to the steam engines of you know, my sort of childhood,

0:27:19 > 0:27:25you meet people at steam rallies who thought this is a great big engine

0:27:25 > 0:27:28and this is that and if they could only have seen some of the engines

0:27:28 > 0:27:33that were in industrial places - like the one in Sheffield

0:27:33 > 0:27:37is a magical piece of tackle.

0:27:38 > 0:27:40I'm really looking forward to this,

0:27:40 > 0:27:43this has got to be the biggest winding engine left in the world

0:27:43 > 0:27:46and it were made about 1905

0:27:46 > 0:27:49and it kept on running till 1970s

0:27:49 > 0:27:52and I'm now going to do a demonstration

0:27:52 > 0:27:57of how fast you can put it in reverse from full speed forward

0:27:57 > 0:28:00into going backwards, here we go.

0:28:29 > 0:28:31Did you like that?

0:28:35 > 0:28:37I did!

0:28:48 > 0:28:51Subtitles by Iain Black Red Bee Media Ltd

0:28:51 > 0:28:54E-mail subtitling@bbc.co.uk