0:00:02 > 0:00:04Well, of all the people that I've met,
0:00:04 > 0:00:08like the lads who really do it for a living proper,
0:00:08 > 0:00:13like the other day the steam hammer men in Sheffield,
0:00:13 > 0:00:16no talking, you know.
0:00:16 > 0:00:20I could see... Perfectly rehearsed in every move, you know.
0:00:20 > 0:00:23When they were placing the...
0:00:23 > 0:00:27punch in the middle of the billet of white-hot iron.
0:00:27 > 0:00:33Like the hammer man, he can get it that way, so he's happy,
0:00:33 > 0:00:36the hammer driver can get it the other way.
0:00:36 > 0:00:39And he were, like, signalling to him just like that, you know.
0:00:39 > 0:00:42Just a bit further, and then when it were right - boom.
0:01:06 > 0:01:12Fred Dibnah's real heroes were the ordinary workers and labourers,
0:01:12 > 0:01:15the people like him who got their hands dirty -
0:01:15 > 0:01:18from the labourers and stonemasons who built medieval castles
0:01:18 > 0:01:25and cathedrals to 20th century coalminers, mill workers and steel workers.
0:01:25 > 0:01:29He will always be remembered for the respect he had for all those
0:01:29 > 0:01:35people who earned their living from making things.
0:01:35 > 0:01:39Wherever Fred went, it was always the workers that he related to.
0:01:39 > 0:01:45This is really my period, you know - the beauty and splendour of it all, you know.
0:01:45 > 0:01:47Like, if there'd been a maintenance man here,
0:01:47 > 0:01:53it must have been very pleasurable coming to work every morning and fettling bits of furniture up.
0:01:53 > 0:01:58- Now then. I believe you've got a squeaky castor somewhere.- Ah, Dibnah,
0:01:58 > 0:02:01- remove your cap, please!- Ooh, yes. - Thank you.
0:02:01 > 0:02:03Would you have a look at this?
0:02:03 > 0:02:06- I think there's something wrong with the castor.- I'll have a go.
0:02:09 > 0:02:12Excuse me, Mr Churchill, while I sort this chair leg out.
0:02:14 > 0:02:16Well, he were a comedian, he were a comic.
0:02:16 > 0:02:22You saw this diminutive flat-capped character,
0:02:22 > 0:02:27a working man, who typified the Northern mill towns,
0:02:27 > 0:02:32whether it be Lancashire or the West Riding, up to a short time ago.
0:02:32 > 0:02:34Best fish and chips in the country.
0:02:36 > 0:02:38'You had members of your family like him.
0:02:38 > 0:02:39'You had friends like him.
0:02:39 > 0:02:45'You went into the local, the local pub, sort of 25 year ago and there's always a guy like Fred
0:02:45 > 0:02:48'in the corner - flat cap on, probably a dirty face.
0:02:48 > 0:02:52'Fred were the epitome of
0:02:52 > 0:02:55'that true grittiness of the North.'
0:02:55 > 0:02:59They must be the best fish and chips in England!
0:02:59 > 0:03:05Pretty blunt, down to earth, and you knew - what you saw was what you got.
0:03:05 > 0:03:09Bet half of them men in London in fancy bloody suits on
0:03:09 > 0:03:14and the fancy shirts and all that, they long for this really, you know.
0:03:14 > 0:03:19They might make a lot of money but the bloody stress of it all must be terrible.
0:03:23 > 0:03:28Fred kept reminding us of the importance of manufacturing industry
0:03:28 > 0:03:32and of the hard graft of ordinary working people.
0:03:32 > 0:03:36Innit funny how everybody who does forging, when they've actually used
0:03:36 > 0:03:39the bloody tool, they just drop it on t'floor.
0:03:39 > 0:03:42He's like that. He never puts nowt back where it should go.
0:03:42 > 0:03:45Yeah, yeah, I'm like that! Where's it gone, you know?
0:03:45 > 0:03:48"Where's the tongs? It's disappeared."
0:03:48 > 0:03:50If you put it away, you know where it is next time.
0:03:50 > 0:03:52How long have you been here, like?
0:03:52 > 0:03:56- You know. Have you been here a long time?- Well, about 28 year, me.
0:03:56 > 0:03:58Yeah, yeah.
0:03:58 > 0:04:01- Been in t'industry all my life. I'm 64 now.- Yeah, yeah, I know.
0:04:01 > 0:04:04When we were talking about it before, you said you've been
0:04:04 > 0:04:08made redundant three times, but no problem getting another job, like.
0:04:08 > 0:04:11Last time I got made redundant here in 1999.
0:04:11 > 0:04:14- They closed it down altogether - no work for it.- Right, yeah.
0:04:14 > 0:04:18Our managing director bought it, sent for us back, me and Paul.
0:04:18 > 0:04:20We've been here... Four years?
0:04:20 > 0:04:25It's all these bloody third-rate nations, innit, who cock everything up for us.
0:04:25 > 0:04:27Same with everything, innit, you know?
0:04:27 > 0:04:31In my opinion for every man in England trying to earn a decent living,
0:04:31 > 0:04:36there's three men who are paid by the government bloody God knows how much a week
0:04:36 > 0:04:41and have a car, to say you cannot do this this way, you can't do it that way, you know.
0:04:41 > 0:04:44Them buggers in foreign countries, it don't matter about.
0:04:46 > 0:04:49This job used to be a good job years ago, weren't it?
0:04:49 > 0:04:52It used to be a good paid job and it's crap now.
0:04:52 > 0:04:54- I'm not kidding. - Yeah, well.- What we get...
0:04:54 > 0:04:56Yeah, hanging onto your job really.
0:04:56 > 0:04:59- It is. Rubbish money. - I know what you mean.
0:04:59 > 0:05:03- For what we do.- Yeah, it's a highly skilled bloody job.
0:05:03 > 0:05:08Somehow or other I've always been attracted to dangerous, dirty things, you know.
0:05:08 > 0:05:12Like if a thing's heavy or dirty or dangerous.
0:05:12 > 0:05:15Women! THEY ALL LAUGH
0:05:15 > 0:05:21I mean it must be dead scary, well, coming to a place like that, you know.
0:05:21 > 0:05:24There seems to have been a problem with people
0:05:24 > 0:05:28who'd actually worked in an industry being
0:05:28 > 0:05:30valued for the work that they did.
0:05:30 > 0:05:33They never sort of felt
0:05:33 > 0:05:38happy to talk about their work or that sort of thing.
0:05:38 > 0:05:43And I think it's one of Fred's biggest plusses is that he made it
0:05:43 > 0:05:50OK for the normal worker to value his place in society.
0:05:50 > 0:05:54That used to be 32 hammers, you know, from five hundredweight up, like.
0:05:54 > 0:05:59- There were 2,000 men worked here. - I bet it were bedlam then,
0:05:59 > 0:06:03when they were all banging away! All t'ground were shaking.
0:06:03 > 0:06:05Well, there were all terraced houses then.
0:06:05 > 0:06:10- No-one could sleep when t'big hammers were on nights!- Aye. Aye.
0:06:10 > 0:06:14It's weird, that, cos I were born next to a marshalling yard, you know, a shunting yard,
0:06:14 > 0:06:20and all night long it were like - when I were little, you know - bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang...
0:06:20 > 0:06:21Woof, woof, woof, woof...
0:06:21 > 0:06:23You just got used to it, you know.
0:06:23 > 0:06:27- It's like somebody living at the side of a railway, innit?- Yeah.
0:06:28 > 0:06:34A lot of people really don't realise the amount of
0:06:34 > 0:06:38effort that goes into making something out of iron, you know.
0:06:38 > 0:06:41I had a fella in here who owns an engineering works the other day.
0:06:41 > 0:06:46Come in a fancy suit and a tie on and his own personalised registration number on his car.
0:06:46 > 0:06:52The thing is, he looked at the tank outside and he said "Have you made that?" I said "Aye, I have."
0:06:52 > 0:06:56And he said, "A lot of people would look at that and they would just not
0:06:56 > 0:07:01"appreciate the amount of effort that's actually gone into making it." You know.
0:07:01 > 0:07:05It's a very complex piece of ironwork really, if you study it.
0:07:05 > 0:07:10All them lovely curves and bends, you know, like. We've lost all that now.
0:07:10 > 0:07:14The modern way would be a butt joint, like they build ships, and a great
0:07:14 > 0:07:18knobbly welded seam down the bloody corner, you know, sort of thing.
0:07:18 > 0:07:21I can't be doing with that myself, you know.
0:07:21 > 0:07:25Fred believed in going out working desperately hard,
0:07:25 > 0:07:29in earning a decent amount - "Addling a certain amount of brass for it" as he would put it.
0:07:29 > 0:07:35He weren't bothered about working nights, weren't bothered about working weekends.
0:07:35 > 0:07:37Saturday or Sunday were the same.
0:07:37 > 0:07:39He'd work a seven day week if he had to.
0:07:42 > 0:07:44We've got the... Behind you is the big mill.
0:07:44 > 0:07:50That's where we do the Network Rail, all the railway lines.
0:07:50 > 0:07:55If he got onto a site of a mill or an iron foundry, or whatever,
0:07:55 > 0:07:56he could soon get involved.
0:07:56 > 0:07:58He could soon do a job.
0:07:58 > 0:08:03And they'd let him have a do, and he'd do an absolute superb job of it.
0:08:03 > 0:08:06And there was nobody better than Fred at talking to ordinary
0:08:06 > 0:08:11working people, like the retired steelworkers he met at Workington.
0:08:11 > 0:08:15In the old days, of course, they had to manhandle the pieces...
0:08:15 > 0:08:17Oh, aye. Yeah.
0:08:17 > 0:08:20- ..with a fork about 12 foot long. - Aye, I know.
0:08:20 > 0:08:21Yeah. Bloody hot!
0:08:21 > 0:08:26- And there were... Before the mill was electrified, it was steam driven.- Yeah.
0:08:26 > 0:08:31And the finishing row, sometimes they were three high.
0:08:31 > 0:08:37And there was one particular job where there was a lift driven by hydraulics.
0:08:37 > 0:08:39There was only two, three fellas could do it.
0:08:39 > 0:08:43One was a fella called Bob Jeffries, and if he slept in or owt,
0:08:43 > 0:08:46they used to have to send for him, to come out, like.
0:08:46 > 0:08:50Yeah, I know exactly what you mean, cos getting it up to that bloody second gap up...
0:08:50 > 0:08:53In Walmsley's forge in Bolton we had, like,
0:08:53 > 0:08:57a chain hanging down off a girder with a big hook on, you know.
0:08:57 > 0:09:02A big long handle, just as it were coming out, under about
0:09:02 > 0:09:06t'last five foot of it, and then the machine kept shoving it,
0:09:06 > 0:09:09and then it shoved it out of plumb, the chain.
0:09:09 > 0:09:13Then it come back on its own, like... Bang! You know.
0:09:13 > 0:09:17And as the tail end came out, these lads with tongs used to grab it
0:09:17 > 0:09:19and whip it into the next pass, and away it went.
0:09:19 > 0:09:22Yeah. I tell you summat, they made it look dead easy.
0:09:22 > 0:09:25But then they'd give you the tongs and have a go.
0:09:25 > 0:09:27Bloody hell, it weren't that easy!
0:09:27 > 0:09:30They had bloody couches and easy chairs!
0:09:30 > 0:09:33When they'd done so many passes they all flopped into them.
0:09:33 > 0:09:37..She's in this mill they were at!
0:09:37 > 0:09:41- They were high knives, you know. - They'd be asleep by now!- I know!
0:09:41 > 0:09:47And they had a propeller off an aeroplane driven with a belt, going round and round, keeping them cool.
0:09:47 > 0:09:51There were a fan in there but it were on t'other side of rollers.
0:09:51 > 0:09:53It were quite frightening, if you watch it.
0:09:53 > 0:09:59You know, if you realised what could happen to you, you know, if owt went wrong.
0:09:59 > 0:10:04Well, I was one of a group who was injured in 1962
0:10:04 > 0:10:07when this ladle of iron fell.
0:10:07 > 0:10:11This shackle had been used which wasn't really supposed to be used.
0:10:11 > 0:10:15It was a bit like the straw that broke the camels back.
0:10:15 > 0:10:18After several times it broke and the ladle was up...
0:10:18 > 0:10:22It was only a small emergency ladle with four ton in, but of course
0:10:22 > 0:10:25it came down.
0:10:25 > 0:10:29Oddly enough, I was in charge of the job at the time.
0:10:29 > 0:10:31I got knocked down in the rush.
0:10:31 > 0:10:34I put my hands out to save myself and,
0:10:34 > 0:10:39even though I was a junior manager, if you like,
0:10:39 > 0:10:43I'd never been frightened to use a shovel and I'd fairly horny hands.
0:10:43 > 0:10:47And I remember the skin started peeling off like blotting paper,
0:10:47 > 0:10:50and I'd only had my first car about three weeks before.
0:10:50 > 0:10:53I thought "Christ, I'm not going to be able to drive me car!"
0:10:55 > 0:10:58Aye, I'll tell you what. Most of this world has,
0:10:58 > 0:11:02you know, normal people, they never burn themself.
0:11:02 > 0:11:05They never do owt like that. But it bloody hurts, you know.
0:11:05 > 0:11:09It soon takes t'bloody skin off, like.
0:11:09 > 0:11:12He had a very happy knack of asking the right questions,
0:11:12 > 0:11:15the sort of things you would want to ask, and above all
0:11:15 > 0:11:21there was that extraordinary respect he had for the people and what they were doing.
0:11:21 > 0:11:25And in turn he was respected by them, and you had
0:11:25 > 0:11:28a really good interchange when he visited somewhere,
0:11:28 > 0:11:31and you felt you were really learning what was going on.
0:11:31 > 0:11:33I done a few weaving sheds when...
0:11:33 > 0:11:38You know, on t'chimneys. I used to go in and think "God, the noise!"
0:11:38 > 0:11:40- You know, sort of thing. - Yeah, very noisy.
0:11:40 > 0:11:42- All day long.- Yeah. Yeah.
0:11:42 > 0:11:45When you first started, how many did you...?
0:11:45 > 0:11:49- I know each weaver looked after so many.- Well, I had two.- Yeah.
0:11:49 > 0:11:53Two loom, and then I got four, then I got five and then I got six.
0:11:53 > 0:11:56- Bloomin' heck. - Then I finished up running eight.
0:11:56 > 0:12:00Eight? Bloody hell! One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight.
0:12:00 > 0:12:02It's halfway down, innit?!
0:12:02 > 0:12:06Yeah. We used to start at seven and finish at half past five.
0:12:06 > 0:12:08Yeah. And how long for lunch?
0:12:08 > 0:12:14- An hour. Half an hour for breakfast, an hour for lunch, and we used to work Saturday mornings.- Yeah.
0:12:14 > 0:12:16Seven o'clock till half past eleven.
0:12:16 > 0:12:19- Yeah.- I thought they were happy days.
0:12:19 > 0:12:22Well, people go on about the bad old days and all that.
0:12:22 > 0:12:25Well, personally I don't know why.
0:12:25 > 0:12:30You'd to work but, like I say, hard work don't kill nobody, does it?
0:12:30 > 0:12:31I don't think so.
0:12:31 > 0:12:35- Most of England have never seen one of these things running.- No. No.
0:12:35 > 0:12:40When you do see it going, and the speed things go at, and how it shakes about!
0:12:40 > 0:12:45- Oh, yeah.- The maintenance levels on it must have been, you know, quite frightening.
0:12:45 > 0:12:48Would they only have one man in here, running up and down
0:12:48 > 0:12:50looking after them all, or would there be a few?
0:12:50 > 0:12:54- Oh, no, there were a tackler to every set.- Yeah. Oh, well...
0:12:54 > 0:12:56They might have about 60 or 70 loom.
0:12:56 > 0:13:00When I were a weaver help, I had 80 loom to look to.
0:13:00 > 0:13:04How long did it take you to learn when you first came, you know?
0:13:04 > 0:13:07- Eight week, and I were gormless. - Is that it? And you were...?
0:13:07 > 0:13:09One day she shoved me to end of t'alley.
0:13:09 > 0:13:12- She said, "You're gormless!" - You're gormless!
0:13:12 > 0:13:16Anyway, t'manager come, and after you'd learnt to weave,
0:13:16 > 0:13:18you went to help a man to run six loom.
0:13:18 > 0:13:21And then you got looms of your own.
0:13:21 > 0:13:24- Yeah, yeah.- Well, time went on and t'years went on,
0:13:24 > 0:13:27- and I started learning people myself.- Yeah.
0:13:27 > 0:13:30Her what learnt me said, "Evelyn, I never thought I'd have
0:13:30 > 0:13:33"seen t'day when you were learning somebody to weave,
0:13:33 > 0:13:36- "cos you were a gormless little devil!"- Yeah.
0:13:36 > 0:13:39- I used to come home every night and I used to be heartbroke.- Yeah. Yeah.
0:13:39 > 0:13:41And I were brought up with my Grandma.
0:13:41 > 0:13:45She said, "You can cry. You're going. You're going!"
0:13:45 > 0:13:47When you didn't want to go t'work again.
0:13:47 > 0:13:50Anyway, I couldn't take ends up - these are ends through here.
0:13:50 > 0:13:56I could set a loom on pull back, pull a piece up, but I couldn't take t'ends up.
0:13:56 > 0:14:00And all at once t'penny dropped, and when I got used to it, I loved it.
0:14:00 > 0:14:04- Yeah.- She said, "Well, do you want to give over?"
0:14:04 > 0:14:07I said "No, do I heck, Grandma." And I earned good money.
0:14:07 > 0:14:10I think for Fred the most important people in history
0:14:10 > 0:14:13have always been the ordinary men and women,
0:14:13 > 0:14:16and he also remembers that it wasn't just the adults,
0:14:16 > 0:14:21but there were children as well who were often involved in industrial production,
0:14:21 > 0:14:27and he recognises their input as much as the great achievements of their parents.
0:14:27 > 0:14:28This is where the kids worked.
0:14:28 > 0:14:30- Yeah. Yeah.- So you got...
0:14:30 > 0:14:36It's a nice day to come here today cos you get a proper, authentic feeling of it!
0:14:36 > 0:14:38Did they never have a roof?
0:14:38 > 0:14:41- No. No, no.- How many of them would there be here on this,
0:14:41 > 0:14:42like, spot, actually working?
0:14:42 > 0:14:45Maybe 30, 40 - something like that.
0:14:45 > 0:14:48- So if you and I were kids, which we're not, but if we were...- Yeah.
0:14:48 > 0:14:52..what we've got to do is tip the stuff onto here.
0:14:52 > 0:14:54- There we go.- Yeah.
0:14:54 > 0:14:58- And then what?- Now, then, you and I have got to work, all right?
0:14:58 > 0:15:01We've got to wash this stuff here.
0:15:01 > 0:15:04- Yeah.- Have a rake. What would you call that?
0:15:04 > 0:15:07- A garden hoe. - No, a coal rake, they call that.
0:15:07 > 0:15:09- Oh, right.- Coal rake. So...
0:15:09 > 0:15:11- And the idea is?- Wash it across in the water.
0:15:11 > 0:15:13That's it. Yeah, that's it.
0:15:13 > 0:15:17Yeah, and all the muck disappears down there.
0:15:17 > 0:15:20- So you can see what you've got in here, can't you?- Yeah.
0:15:20 > 0:15:22I tell you what - this is poor stuff.
0:15:22 > 0:15:24There's not many shiny bits!
0:15:24 > 0:15:27He did stand at the fort.
0:15:27 > 0:15:32You know, he did work with trowel and hammer and chisel.
0:15:32 > 0:15:36So he wasn't just talking about it, saying, "Wasn't it a wonderful era?"
0:15:36 > 0:15:40He knew the era well enough, with warts and all.
0:15:40 > 0:15:45So it wasn't just saying, you know, some romanticised sense of the past.
0:15:45 > 0:15:50He knew how difficult the past was because he largely lived there.
0:15:50 > 0:15:54- Now you smash up your bits with your bucker.- Yeah.- Like that.
0:15:54 > 0:15:58Yeah. How old would they be when they were actually doing that?
0:15:58 > 0:16:02You'd start work here when you're maybe nine, maybe ten years old.
0:16:02 > 0:16:05- Yeah, yeah. - And, yeah, you'd graduate.
0:16:05 > 0:16:08When you were about 18, you'd graduate to down the mine.
0:16:08 > 0:16:12City & Guilds apprenticeship for lead-ore crushing!
0:16:12 > 0:16:15- This is your main weapon. - Yeah.- For separating stuff.
0:16:15 > 0:16:17It's a pretty, er...
0:16:17 > 0:16:20And how did a little lad manage to get hold of the end?
0:16:20 > 0:16:25- Well, you can kind of jump up and get a hold of it.- Yeah. Yeah.
0:16:25 > 0:16:29- This thing's called a hotching tub. - Is it?- Yeah.
0:16:29 > 0:16:32You've got a sieve suspended in a tub of water like that,
0:16:32 > 0:16:35and you put all your broken bits in the sieve.
0:16:35 > 0:16:40- Yeah, yeah. Yeah. - And then you jiggle that up and down at the end of this arm here.
0:16:40 > 0:16:43Yeah, yeah. It looks a bit painful, doesn't it?
0:16:43 > 0:16:46- Do you want to give it a go? - Yeah, I will, I'll pretend that...
0:16:49 > 0:16:52- Pretend you're about eleven year old.- Yeah, yeah.
0:16:52 > 0:16:54That's really harder than the...
0:16:54 > 0:16:57Than the other action, yeah.
0:16:57 > 0:17:00You'd be absolutely goosed after t'end of the day.
0:17:00 > 0:17:04- Poor little kids, hey?- Yeah, yeah. - Doesn't bear thinking about really.
0:17:04 > 0:17:07I think everybody knew he was very much one of the people
0:17:07 > 0:17:12who understood industrial England, and all the engineering wonders.
0:17:12 > 0:17:15But then he was able to transpose that backwards
0:17:15 > 0:17:22and to get an understanding of so many of those anonymous medieval craftsmen who were building castles,
0:17:22 > 0:17:26who worked brilliantly with stone and with timber
0:17:26 > 0:17:29to create amazing structures which are still with us.
0:17:29 > 0:17:32This side of the castle, without a doubt,
0:17:32 > 0:17:37is the best side to show the various stages of construction of it.
0:17:37 > 0:17:40I mean, it's very obvious if you look at the main wall,
0:17:40 > 0:17:43you can see at the bottom of it, it's quite rough stonework, you know.
0:17:43 > 0:17:48Obviously, possibly, done by the soldiers while still under attack.
0:17:48 > 0:17:52Later on, when they had more time and a bit of protection from the bottom wall,
0:17:52 > 0:17:58they completed the top 25 or 30 feet in a much better fashion, you know,
0:17:58 > 0:18:00better stonemasonry and everything.
0:18:00 > 0:18:07And then, of course, last but not least, the outer curtain wall or the outer wall
0:18:07 > 0:18:12would be built later on when they could disappear inside if the enemy were approaching.
0:18:12 > 0:18:16Leave the mortar and the trowels behind!
0:18:16 > 0:18:20He's interested in the practical side of historic buildings,
0:18:20 > 0:18:23and that's important because scholars write about
0:18:23 > 0:18:25the theory of architecture or engineering.
0:18:25 > 0:18:28Fred was interested in how the ordinary artisans
0:18:28 > 0:18:32built the buildings, and that's what's really interesting.
0:18:32 > 0:18:36When James of St George and the King built these castles,
0:18:36 > 0:18:38spirit levels hadn't been invented, you know.
0:18:38 > 0:18:41And of course if you go round and look at the moat,
0:18:41 > 0:18:44and look at the bed joints and the masonry,
0:18:44 > 0:18:48they're perfect - perfectly level with the water. Of course,
0:18:48 > 0:18:50water finds its own level.
0:18:50 > 0:18:55The thing is that there wouldn't be any water, of course, in the moat
0:18:55 > 0:18:59when they built the place, and the only things they had were like this.
0:18:59 > 0:19:05Basically a stick, a piece of string with a lead weight on the end,
0:19:05 > 0:19:08and, of course, a nice hole that received the lead weight.
0:19:08 > 0:19:10And a line drawn up the middle.
0:19:10 > 0:19:16Of course when you put it on the wall like that, if the wall is plumb,
0:19:16 > 0:19:22the lead weight will hang perfectly central in the hole, you see.
0:19:24 > 0:19:28If it leans, of course, the wall, the ball's in the wrong shop,
0:19:28 > 0:19:32and that's how they got everything vertical.
0:19:32 > 0:19:37I mean, you can actually compare it with a modern spirit level.
0:19:37 > 0:19:41Of course, it's bang on, you see.
0:19:41 > 0:19:44It's perfect. We've not improved that much, really, have we?
0:19:46 > 0:19:52He was always very good at acknowledging people who had names but also those who didn't.
0:19:52 > 0:19:57The extraordinary, the medieval craftsman whose work we now see,
0:19:57 > 0:20:01who achieved miracles, really, with very simple techniques
0:20:01 > 0:20:07and very modest use of tools and primitive working conditions.
0:20:07 > 0:20:10And I think he himself, and he'd come from a background
0:20:10 > 0:20:15where hard work was what you did and how you understood it,
0:20:15 > 0:20:20and he was able to couple that basic business of the day's work
0:20:20 > 0:20:24with the vision and enterprise of much greater things,
0:20:24 > 0:20:29and I think he had a very happy knack of putting those two together.
0:20:29 > 0:20:33If you look closely at the wall, you can see two rows of holes.
0:20:33 > 0:20:35One going up and one coming down,
0:20:35 > 0:20:39and they would have had the puck locks in which are, in other words,
0:20:39 > 0:20:45the scaffolding supports, and there'd be an incline plane up one side and one down the other.
0:20:45 > 0:20:48And I rather think that would have been done that way
0:20:48 > 0:20:52instead of having a single way up and same way down,
0:20:52 > 0:20:57to sort of facilitate the work to go smoother, because the materials
0:20:57 > 0:21:01would go one side and the men, after they've unloaded them on the top
0:21:01 > 0:21:03on the wall, would come down the other side
0:21:03 > 0:21:07with the sledges and the boxes and the bits of rope and tackle.
0:21:07 > 0:21:10This, of course, would save a lot of bother with it.
0:21:10 > 0:21:15There would always some Charlie who'd start an argument, "You got in my way,"
0:21:15 > 0:21:17and shove the other guy off or sommat.
0:21:17 > 0:21:21So, really the work would run very smoothly
0:21:21 > 0:21:24with a system like that, I think anyway.
0:21:24 > 0:21:27And he could put himself in the shoes of the craftsman,
0:21:27 > 0:21:30of the people actually making this thing,
0:21:30 > 0:21:34rather than the way that most historians would tackle it,
0:21:34 > 0:21:39which would be to put themselves in the shoes of the monks who had commissioned it,
0:21:39 > 0:21:43or of the rich people who were paying for it.
0:21:43 > 0:21:48He was actually there in the shoes of the person putting it up,
0:21:48 > 0:21:50up there on the scaffold and wondering,
0:21:50 > 0:21:53"Is this damn thing going to fit?" Great.
0:21:54 > 0:22:01When most people think of cathedrals, they think of stonemasons, but there's a bit more to it than that.
0:22:01 > 0:22:05There were many joiners I would rather think of as stonemasons,
0:22:05 > 0:22:07and they would come into various categories.
0:22:07 > 0:22:12The guys who carved the beautiful wooden mullions on the lantern,
0:22:12 > 0:22:17and of course stonemasons who did all the lovely tracery for the windows.
0:22:17 > 0:22:22And then the other branch would be the rough guys who did the infill in the walls.
0:22:22 > 0:22:27And of course down here on this grass at that time,
0:22:27 > 0:22:30it would be a hive of industry.
0:22:30 > 0:22:36They would have built themselves a few wooden shacks to shelter under during the winter months,
0:22:36 > 0:22:41and I suppose a greater part of the work on the walls would be done
0:22:41 > 0:22:46in the summer because of the sunshine and the good weather.
0:22:46 > 0:22:49It's really quite a magnificent thing when you look at it,
0:22:49 > 0:22:54and you can see just by observation that it must have took them a long time.
0:22:54 > 0:22:57And not to mention the plumbers.
0:22:57 > 0:23:01Also the lead roof and all the downspouts, all of them would be
0:23:01 > 0:23:04made more or less on site with the lead burners.
0:23:04 > 0:23:09The magic art of burning lead together, like soldering in a way.
0:23:09 > 0:23:15There's lots of modern examples of that all over this place if you're an observer and look around.
0:23:15 > 0:23:19Fred was showing the history of the common man.
0:23:19 > 0:23:22He was showing what people achieved in their everyday lives
0:23:22 > 0:23:27and bringing it to the forefront of our knowledge, which is great.
0:23:27 > 0:23:31At Culzean Castle, Fred looked at the work of the stonemasons.
0:23:33 > 0:23:38When this place were being built, it would be a hive of activity,
0:23:38 > 0:23:41and there'd be literally dozens of stonemasons.
0:23:41 > 0:23:47The thing is, this is a wonderful wall to depict different styles
0:23:47 > 0:23:51of workmanship on producing the squared-off blocks of stone.
0:23:51 > 0:23:55It's obvious that the same man made this here,
0:23:55 > 0:23:59these door jarms, each side, it's the same style of chiselling.
0:23:59 > 0:24:02Of course, they dropped a bit of a clanger here.
0:24:02 > 0:24:09There were going to be another nitch like that but they obviously changed their mind and bunged it up.
0:24:09 > 0:24:12Here there's a wonderfully detailed one here
0:24:12 > 0:24:15that obviously the guy who made that would only do one,
0:24:15 > 0:24:20and the bloke who made this one would more than likely do three,
0:24:20 > 0:24:22cos it's pretty rough, or he were in a hurry
0:24:22 > 0:24:25to go home for his tea or something of that nature.
0:24:25 > 0:24:29But it is certainly a good example of showing
0:24:29 > 0:24:34masons' different styles of using the punch and the mallet
0:24:34 > 0:24:37and the various fancy chisels that they had.
0:24:37 > 0:24:40We want to cut of piece of stone for that wall.
0:24:40 > 0:24:42- We've got to sort it.- Yeah.
0:24:42 > 0:24:46We've got to put a new face on it, and also alter the shape
0:24:46 > 0:24:49and the finish on the top and bottom bed and the joints.
0:24:54 > 0:24:56I'll try not to hit my hand,
0:24:56 > 0:24:58cos that's always a bonus.
0:25:02 > 0:25:04'Never ever stop learning.
0:25:04 > 0:25:08'You can have a bad teacher, a bad workman who is suffering,
0:25:08 > 0:25:11'or a good 'un and you'll learn a lot.
0:25:11 > 0:25:17'And you can learn a lot more from an artist or an engineer
0:25:17 > 0:25:21'if you're working with him than you can reading a book, believe me.'
0:25:21 > 0:25:27I learned how to do all this by being shown by another man stood at side of me.
0:25:27 > 0:25:33You've got to read books to get the basic gist of it, but you can't really do it from the book.
0:25:33 > 0:25:35Can I have a go?
0:25:35 > 0:25:37You certainly can have a go.
0:25:37 > 0:25:40Just spin it round and you can work from that side.
0:25:40 > 0:25:44One of the most important things about Fred is that he didn't
0:25:44 > 0:25:49come across as some enthusiast, just going on about some engine,
0:25:49 > 0:25:51whereas you tend to say,
0:25:51 > 0:25:54"You wouldn't say that if you had to work with them
0:25:54 > 0:25:58"and clean them out," cos he did work with them and he really did know.
0:25:58 > 0:26:00He really was a hands-on guy.
0:26:00 > 0:26:06And his sense of empathy in connection with Victorian workers
0:26:06 > 0:26:11and engineers was so important because it's easy to say, yes, but they had short,
0:26:11 > 0:26:16nasty lives and they all got TB or died of asbestos or whatever,
0:26:16 > 0:26:20but the point is he understood that their work
0:26:20 > 0:26:23still had an immense pride in it.
0:26:25 > 0:26:28That people might have been tired and working long hours,
0:26:28 > 0:26:32but they still put beauty and quality into what they were doing.
0:26:32 > 0:26:34And it was that sense that he connected with.
0:27:02 > 0:27:04He was good on crafts because we tend to think
0:27:04 > 0:27:08of the working class in the 19th century as being always in a mill
0:27:08 > 0:27:11or in a factory, down the mine, and it was a lot of work.
0:27:11 > 0:27:14But there was a very big artisan class of people,
0:27:14 > 0:27:20very like Fred, who were highly skilled, quite independent minded, some of them had training,
0:27:20 > 0:27:22some of them like Pugin who he talked about
0:27:22 > 0:27:26had no particular education and were largely self-taught,
0:27:26 > 0:27:32and they had to learn how to solve problems and evolve their own kind of standards and ideas.
0:27:32 > 0:27:35They're not people who leave behind written records.
0:27:35 > 0:27:39They weren't the book writing and letter writing classes.
0:27:39 > 0:27:41But I think he really brought to life again
0:27:41 > 0:27:46their spirit when he looked in detail at the way in which the things they'd made had been made.
0:27:53 > 0:27:58I think really that I'd have been all right in the Victorian period,
0:27:58 > 0:28:05putting aside all the poverty and the awful things that there were then. Hardly any money.
0:28:05 > 0:28:10Anybody can say that the money business, the wages come into it.
0:28:10 > 0:28:13They couldn't have made wonderful things like they did
0:28:13 > 0:28:16if they hadn't have liked it, I don't think.
0:28:16 > 0:28:22People are on a lot more money now but the unhappiness is rife, innit?
0:28:22 > 0:28:25All this stress at the office and things like that, you know.
0:28:25 > 0:28:28I don't think they have time to be stressed, them men.
0:28:28 > 0:28:30They were always busy, weren't they?
0:28:30 > 0:28:34I think I'd have been all right in the Victorian era.
0:28:53 > 0:28:55Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd 2006
0:28:55 > 0:28:57E-mail subtitling@bbc.co.uk