0:00:15 > 0:00:19With the Two Ronnies, size mattered.
0:00:19 > 0:00:22Together, big Ronnie Barker and little Ronnie Corbett
0:00:22 > 0:00:27were amongst TV's biggest stars in the 1970s and '80s,
0:00:27 > 0:00:30with big shows that got very big ratings.
0:00:30 > 0:00:33They had a magic, audience-pleasing formula.
0:00:33 > 0:00:36There were always the joke news reports,
0:00:36 > 0:00:39some wordplay from Ronnie B, a monologue from Ronnie C,
0:00:39 > 0:00:43a comedy song and a goodnight from me and a goodnight from him.
0:00:43 > 0:00:47Much of that classic material was written by Ronnie Barker himself,
0:00:47 > 0:00:49which is something we see him talk about
0:00:49 > 0:00:52in this encounter with Michael Parkinson.
0:00:52 > 0:00:55A quote for you - "Wildly berserk, a coordinated clown,
0:00:55 > 0:00:59"expressively bizarre - that's how it comes across on the screen.
0:00:59 > 0:01:01"But it's all rather like the sober clerk
0:01:01 > 0:01:03"getting tiddly at the office party.
0:01:03 > 0:01:07"Away from his disguises, he's almost indecently normal,
0:01:07 > 0:01:09"bland, innocuous and polite."
0:01:09 > 0:01:13End of quote. Here tonight, minus disguises, Ronnie Barker!
0:01:13 > 0:01:16APPLAUSE
0:01:26 > 0:01:28- Indecently normal?- What?
0:01:28 > 0:01:29- Indecently normal.- Yes.
0:01:31 > 0:01:32Or normally indecent.
0:01:34 > 0:01:36But indecently normal? Yes, I'm very normal, yes.
0:01:36 > 0:01:39Almost to the point of indecency, yes. Yes, I'm married with a wife.
0:01:39 > 0:01:42Well, you have to. If you're married, you have to have a wife.
0:01:42 > 0:01:44- Absolutely.- And I've got three children -
0:01:44 > 0:01:45one of each.
0:01:49 > 0:01:53- And I live in a house with four walls and two roofs.- Two roofs?- Yes.
0:01:53 > 0:01:56- There's one...and the other one's over the house.- But are you...?
0:01:56 > 0:01:59- Yes, I like this.- You like it? - Wall-to-ceiling carpet.
0:02:01 > 0:02:04- Part of the BBC's economy drive. - It's very nice.- Do you, in fact...
0:02:04 > 0:02:08I mean, I took that quote out of context, in a sense,
0:02:08 > 0:02:11but the sense of all the articles that one reads about you
0:02:11 > 0:02:14is that in fact you are a shy man, normally - is that so?
0:02:14 > 0:02:19Er... I'm shy when there are more than three people in the room.
0:02:19 > 0:02:20Um...
0:02:23 > 0:02:26No, I... Yes, I can't...
0:02:26 > 0:02:29I can't even be a best man at a wedding, for instance.
0:02:29 > 0:02:30I can't make speeches.
0:02:30 > 0:02:32I'm always, obviously, getting letters that say,
0:02:32 > 0:02:34"Will you make a speech?"
0:02:34 > 0:02:36I'm very shy. I'm shy at the moment.
0:02:36 > 0:02:38I once tried to open a fete...
0:02:40 > 0:02:43..and tried to make a speech to open a fete - and I just couldn't...
0:02:43 > 0:02:45The fete just wouldn't open.
0:02:46 > 0:02:48I mean, that's extraordinary, you see -
0:02:48 > 0:02:51because how on earth do you appear in public?
0:02:51 > 0:02:53I mean, how do you appear on television, for instance?
0:02:53 > 0:02:56I'm always wondering. It's luck, I suppose.
0:02:56 > 0:02:58No, I have to hide behind the character, really.
0:03:00 > 0:03:01I can't be myself.
0:03:01 > 0:03:03I feel I have no personality,
0:03:03 > 0:03:05so I pull on a character, you know?
0:03:05 > 0:03:07Put on a moustache and a voice...
0:03:07 > 0:03:10You literally disguise yourself and feel quite comfortable?
0:03:10 > 0:03:12Oh, yes - I'm fine, doing that.
0:03:12 > 0:03:14You are also a writer too, of course.
0:03:14 > 0:03:16I mean, you've written some very, very good stuff.
0:03:16 > 0:03:18- Very good comedy material.- Thank you.
0:03:18 > 0:03:22Has that ever been affected by your shyness at all?
0:03:22 > 0:03:25- Have you ever been too shy to reveal yourself as a writer?- Oh, yes.
0:03:25 > 0:03:29When I first started writing seriously, I think, for...
0:03:29 > 0:03:31I mean, comic-serious - seriously started writing comedy,
0:03:31 > 0:03:33if that makes sense...
0:03:33 > 0:03:36in Frost On Sunday, which I'm afraid was on the other side...
0:03:36 > 0:03:40but we soon brought it over here and called it The Frost Report, or was it the other way round?
0:03:40 > 0:03:42Anyway, I started writing in Frost On Sunday,
0:03:42 > 0:03:45but I didn't want to present Ronnie Corbett and the director
0:03:45 > 0:03:47with a sketch and they had to say
0:03:47 > 0:03:51"That's very good, very nice" - when it was awful.
0:03:51 > 0:03:54So I wanted a sketch - if it got on - to be done under its own merits.
0:03:56 > 0:03:58And so, I wrote...
0:03:58 > 0:04:00I called myself "Gerald Wiley"
0:04:00 > 0:04:03and sent in a sketch from my agent.
0:04:03 > 0:04:05I got him to farm it in, said it was some strange recluse
0:04:05 > 0:04:07who lived in the country and wrote novels,
0:04:07 > 0:04:10but he thought he'd like to try his hand at writing sketches.
0:04:10 > 0:04:13And luckily, they loved them, for the first two weeks.
0:04:13 > 0:04:15And...
0:04:15 > 0:04:18No, we did them and they said, "Great new find, Gerald Wiley."
0:04:18 > 0:04:20I said, "Yes, very good, very good"
0:04:20 > 0:04:24and pretended not to understand parts of them.
0:04:24 > 0:04:26"What does this mean here?"
0:04:26 > 0:04:30And then, I suppose it was the third week I did one...
0:04:30 > 0:04:33and the editor came in - the script editor -
0:04:33 > 0:04:35and said, "Wiley's dropped a clanger this week.
0:04:35 > 0:04:37"Load of rubbish," he said.
0:04:37 > 0:04:40I said, "Is it really? Let's have a look" and read it through and said,
0:04:40 > 0:04:43"Oh, yes. Absolutely hopeless. Chuck it out." We chucked it out.
0:04:43 > 0:04:45Which means...that it worked. For me, that worked.
0:04:45 > 0:04:48That was just what I wanted, so that if I thought I'd written a good sketch
0:04:48 > 0:04:51and other people didn't think so, then they threw it out.
0:04:51 > 0:04:52And your disguise was complete?
0:04:52 > 0:04:55Yes - and I kept it hidden for a long time.
0:04:55 > 0:04:57All right, but how long did it...
0:04:57 > 0:04:59How, in fact, was the secret discovered?
0:04:59 > 0:05:02I wrote a sketch about the doctor's waiting room
0:05:02 > 0:05:05and Ronnie Corbett loved it. It was all...
0:05:05 > 0:05:07I had three lines in it, it featured Ronnie, who came into
0:05:07 > 0:05:10a doctor's waiting room and no-one would talk to him - as people don't talk.
0:05:10 > 0:05:13He said, hello, good morning, good morning - and no-one said anything.
0:05:13 > 0:05:16So he started reading funny bits out of the paper and no-one laughed.
0:05:16 > 0:05:19So then he sang a little song - he stood up and sang a song,
0:05:19 > 0:05:22then he did a full Fred Astaire all over the table. Nobody noticed.
0:05:22 > 0:05:24He finished this great thing and suddenly got a round of applause.
0:05:24 > 0:05:27It was a sketch like that and everyone in the waiting room
0:05:27 > 0:05:29eventually joined in, all sang a song.
0:05:29 > 0:05:32So he loved this and he said, "I'd like to buy this from Gerald Wiley."
0:05:32 > 0:05:36I said, "Why don't you ring up the agent and see what he wants for it?"
0:05:36 > 0:05:39So I rang my agent quickly and said, "Ask him 250 quid for it."
0:05:42 > 0:05:44- That was a very friendly thing to do! - Yes, quite.
0:05:44 > 0:05:47That was before inflation, that was -
0:05:47 > 0:05:49when you could get three pennyworth of chips
0:05:49 > 0:05:50and still get change from sixpence.
0:05:50 > 0:05:53Work that out. Takes a bit of time.
0:05:53 > 0:05:55Anyway, I said "Ask 250 quid".
0:05:55 > 0:05:57So he rang up and said, "He wants 250 quid."
0:05:57 > 0:06:00He came and told me. Ronnie said, "He wants £250 for it!"
0:06:00 > 0:06:02I said, "Don't pay it. It's rubbish."
0:06:02 > 0:06:03LAUGHTER
0:06:03 > 0:06:06Because I knew I was going to give him the sketch later on, you see?
0:06:06 > 0:06:08So he rang up and said "No, I'm not going to have that."
0:06:08 > 0:06:11So eventually, I asked my agent to say,
0:06:11 > 0:06:14Gerald Wiley would like to give Ronnie Corbett the sketch,
0:06:14 > 0:06:17because he appreciates all he's done -
0:06:17 > 0:06:18the performances in the previous sketches.
0:06:18 > 0:06:21So Ronnie says, "He's given it to me free. Oh, I must do something.
0:06:21 > 0:06:23"I must go out and buy him a present."
0:06:23 > 0:06:25So he rushed out and bought six beautiful crystal glasses
0:06:25 > 0:06:27and presented them to me, just on the last day.
0:06:27 > 0:06:29But he didn't present them to me,
0:06:29 > 0:06:31he left them at reception for Gerald Wiley
0:06:31 > 0:06:33and then we all revealed it all
0:06:33 > 0:06:36and I said, "Thanks very much for the glasses" and took them away.
0:06:36 > 0:06:38And he was... He didn't know what to do!
0:06:38 > 0:06:42That was a fairly large serving of Ronnie Barker there,
0:06:42 > 0:06:45so now let us treat ourselves to a little helping of Ronnie Corbett,
0:06:45 > 0:06:48talking again to Michael Parkinson.
0:06:48 > 0:06:50APPLAUSE
0:06:50 > 0:06:52- How are you?- Thank you very much.
0:06:52 > 0:06:55Well, I'm a little bit nervous, but...
0:06:55 > 0:06:58I must say, it was very, very encouraging,
0:06:58 > 0:07:01because as I walked on just now, a little bit nervous and tentative,
0:07:01 > 0:07:03a lady over there... I heard her say,
0:07:03 > 0:07:06"Doesn't he remind you of Clint Eastwood?" It was very nice.
0:07:06 > 0:07:08LAUGHTER
0:07:08 > 0:07:10Made me relax.
0:07:10 > 0:07:13In fact, that's the first question I wanted to ask you.
0:07:13 > 0:07:17Do you use humour as a defence against your size?
0:07:17 > 0:07:18I suppose...
0:07:18 > 0:07:21I suppose, in order to make other people feel comfortable
0:07:21 > 0:07:23and make them feel that I'm not worrying about it.
0:07:23 > 0:07:26I naturally go to it...for succour.
0:07:26 > 0:07:29I mean, I grab at it, to...
0:07:29 > 0:07:31I suppose it is. Yes, I suppose it is.
0:07:31 > 0:07:32When did you first realise, in fact,
0:07:32 > 0:07:35that you were smaller than other people?
0:07:35 > 0:07:37LAUGHTER
0:07:37 > 0:07:39That's a very good question, because...
0:07:39 > 0:07:41- it is a very good question! - It is excellent, of course.
0:07:41 > 0:07:44I thought long and hard before I put it down.
0:07:44 > 0:07:47Well, actually, I suppose...my wedding day.
0:07:47 > 0:07:49LAUGHTER
0:07:50 > 0:07:52No, no!
0:07:52 > 0:07:54The vicar shoved my head in the font and said,
0:07:54 > 0:07:56- "I name this child Ronnie Corbett!" - LAUGHTER
0:07:56 > 0:07:58No, because my wife and I...
0:07:58 > 0:08:02My wife and I actually met in the hall of mirrors and...
0:08:02 > 0:08:04LAUGHTER
0:08:04 > 0:08:06..she thought I was seven foot six.
0:08:06 > 0:08:10No, I suppose seriously, when everybody else was sprouting up
0:08:10 > 0:08:13at the age of 13 and 14 and going into long trousers,
0:08:13 > 0:08:15I realised I wasn't and...
0:08:15 > 0:08:16Going into long trousers?
0:08:16 > 0:08:19..I wasn't sprouting up or going into long trousers.
0:08:19 > 0:08:21And that was when it began to...
0:08:21 > 0:08:23Did anybody ever try to increase your height at all?
0:08:23 > 0:08:27Well, I had an aunt who was kind of anxious
0:08:27 > 0:08:32to get me to be a little taller and she sent away for a course,
0:08:32 > 0:08:35a two guinea course -
0:08:35 > 0:08:36which didn't work -
0:08:36 > 0:08:41and I used to have to stick pins in the wall every morning and say,
0:08:41 > 0:08:44"Everyday and in every way, I am getting taller and taller.
0:08:44 > 0:08:46I obviously didn't say it with much conviction.
0:08:46 > 0:08:48LAUGHTER
0:08:48 > 0:08:50Let's talk about the development of your style.
0:08:50 > 0:08:53How did this style, best described as "wandering monologue",
0:08:53 > 0:08:55that you have now - how did that develop?
0:08:55 > 0:08:59Well, that really developed because before the BBC days,
0:08:59 > 0:09:02Ronnie and I were at London Weekend, we did some shows there.
0:09:02 > 0:09:04I did a show on Saturday night called The Corbett Follies,
0:09:04 > 0:09:07which was a big glamorous show with tall showgirls -
0:09:07 > 0:09:08a variety show, really -
0:09:08 > 0:09:11and I used to do monologue and I used to, by accident,
0:09:11 > 0:09:14get lost in it and try to fumble my way out.
0:09:14 > 0:09:17And one day, Spike Mullins...
0:09:17 > 0:09:19spoke to me in the canteen at London Weekend and said,
0:09:19 > 0:09:22"I've been watching you fumbling your way through these monologues
0:09:22 > 0:09:26"to some effect, but I think that I could write them - the fumbles -
0:09:26 > 0:09:28"better than you do them by accident",
0:09:28 > 0:09:31which was fairly obvious, I would have thought.
0:09:31 > 0:09:35And so, Spike started writing...
0:09:35 > 0:09:37the digressing monologues...
0:09:37 > 0:09:40and they're now written by David Renwick,
0:09:40 > 0:09:42who copies the style that Spike had written
0:09:42 > 0:09:44and that's how it really evolved.
0:09:44 > 0:09:47A bit from me and a bit from Spike, working in that way.
0:09:47 > 0:09:50I do cabaret and I do...
0:09:52 > 0:09:56I very much enjoy the feeling of talking
0:09:56 > 0:09:58as though something is not written and therefore losing my way
0:09:58 > 0:10:01and seeming to be picking it out of the air, you know?
0:10:01 > 0:10:02Yes, yes.
0:10:02 > 0:10:04That appeals to me, that putting it together -
0:10:04 > 0:10:07weaving it like a little bit of lace,
0:10:07 > 0:10:10- from putting it in a lot of jokes into making it prose, really.- Right.
0:10:10 > 0:10:12- Do you have an example ready? - Well, er...
0:10:14 > 0:10:17It's a question of creeping into it, so that people...
0:10:19 > 0:10:23When I arrived, for example, at the studio tonight...
0:10:23 > 0:10:27and I parked the car and Bert the doorman was there - you know Bert?
0:10:27 > 0:10:29Ha. A man of many parts...
0:10:30 > 0:10:32..which nobody's ever seen, because he's a bachelor...
0:10:32 > 0:10:34LAUGHTER
0:10:34 > 0:10:36But anyway, I handed...
0:10:36 > 0:10:39I handed him... I went up...
0:10:39 > 0:10:40LAUGHTER
0:10:40 > 0:10:42That's Bert, yes!
0:10:43 > 0:10:45He's got fewer parts than I thought!
0:10:45 > 0:10:46LAUGHTER
0:10:46 > 0:10:49I went to reception, I got my key from the lady, the receptionist -
0:10:49 > 0:10:51a very forbidding lady with her hair in a bun
0:10:51 > 0:10:53and her nose in a cheese sandwich.
0:10:53 > 0:10:55LAUGHTER
0:10:55 > 0:10:56And as I...
0:10:56 > 0:10:59As I left the reception, the vicar was leaving -
0:10:59 > 0:11:03presumably from having recorded The Epilogue or something, I don't know.
0:11:03 > 0:11:06I got the dressing room and as I opened the dressing room,
0:11:06 > 0:11:07it was in a terrible mess
0:11:07 > 0:11:10and I thought it was some previous fool,
0:11:10 > 0:11:12whoever was in it yesterday hadn't...
0:11:12 > 0:11:14Anyway, as I thought, shall I complain?
0:11:14 > 0:11:17I thought, no, I shall think of the vicar having left
0:11:17 > 0:11:19and I'll tell tonight,
0:11:19 > 0:11:21when Michael asks me,
0:11:21 > 0:11:24a religious story.
0:11:24 > 0:11:26I thought because, as you all probably know,
0:11:26 > 0:11:30today is the last Thursday before...
0:11:30 > 0:11:31The last Saturday, sorry...
0:11:31 > 0:11:33before... before Sunday.
0:11:35 > 0:11:37Now, I know that sounds...
0:11:37 > 0:11:40rather like a pathetic excuse to tell an old joke -
0:11:40 > 0:11:44and that's exactly what it is, because this joke needs an excuse
0:11:44 > 0:11:47and if I could have thought of a better one, I would have done so.
0:11:47 > 0:11:48Actually, to be honest,
0:11:48 > 0:11:51I found this story in an old copy of the Radio Times.
0:11:51 > 0:11:52I was browsing through it,
0:11:52 > 0:11:55looking at a picture of Patrick Moore in Sky At Night...
0:11:55 > 0:11:58wondering what it must be like to put your suit on with a shovel...
0:12:01 > 0:12:04- Now, I... - APPLAUSE
0:12:07 > 0:12:09My old dad used to say to me,
0:12:09 > 0:12:11he used to say to me, "Remember, Ron..."
0:12:11 > 0:12:13He had a wonderful memory for names, my dad...
0:12:15 > 0:12:17"Remember, Ron..."
0:12:17 > 0:12:19He had a habit of repeating himself, as well.
0:12:19 > 0:12:23He said, "Remember, Ron - always remember, the show must go on."
0:12:23 > 0:12:26Now, he was 40 years a centre lathe turner,
0:12:26 > 0:12:29so I don't know why he troubled to mention it, but he did, so there.
0:12:29 > 0:12:32Anyway, the joke. This is about two vicars who meet in the street
0:12:32 > 0:12:37and one of them says to the other, he says, "Woe is me. Woe is me -
0:12:37 > 0:12:39"some thieving parishioner has made off with my bike
0:12:39 > 0:12:41"and from now on, it looks like
0:12:41 > 0:12:44"Shanks's pony for ever and ever, etc, etc."
0:12:44 > 0:12:45Or words to that effect.
0:12:46 > 0:12:49He didn't say "etc, etc", I said that.
0:12:49 > 0:12:52I didn't want to say everything the vicar said, otherwise I'd be here...
0:12:52 > 0:12:55..and the story would go on forever.
0:12:55 > 0:12:56"Good heavens", said his friend,
0:12:56 > 0:12:58lapsing into the professional jargon.
0:12:58 > 0:13:02By the way, please don't think I am knocking anyone's religion.
0:13:02 > 0:13:03I wouldn't do that, believe me.
0:13:03 > 0:13:06I can't wait to see the Pope catch up with Dave Allen.
0:13:09 > 0:13:11That'll cure his dandruff. Anyway, I...
0:13:11 > 0:13:13- LAUGHTER The Pope's?- The Pope's?
0:13:13 > 0:13:15Oh, no. Dave Allen's. Well, both of them, perhaps.
0:13:15 > 0:13:18Anyway, these two vicars are talking about how one of them
0:13:18 > 0:13:20had his bike stolen, you see?
0:13:20 > 0:13:23"Woe is me", says the one whose bike it was.
0:13:23 > 0:13:26"Yea, woe is you", said his friend.
0:13:26 > 0:13:28He said, "What about the local police?"
0:13:28 > 0:13:29"Oh, I've thought about them,
0:13:29 > 0:13:32"but I don't want to accuse anybody until I'm absolutely sure."
0:13:34 > 0:13:37Then his friend said, "I have an idea -
0:13:37 > 0:13:39"next Saturday, get up there
0:13:39 > 0:13:41"and give them the full ten Commandments -
0:13:41 > 0:13:44"and when you get to 'thou shalt not steal',
0:13:44 > 0:13:46"have a look for the red face -
0:13:46 > 0:13:49"and that will be the one who purloined your velocipede."
0:13:51 > 0:13:53Now, I have....
0:13:53 > 0:13:55I have a great temptation here to tell you the story about
0:13:55 > 0:13:58- when Moses was in the desert... - No, don't...
0:13:58 > 0:14:01One of them said, "How did you get on about your bike?"
0:14:01 > 0:14:02Now, we're getting near the end.
0:14:02 > 0:14:05"Did the ten Commandments idea work?" he said.
0:14:05 > 0:14:08And the other vicar said, "Yes, it worked marvellously.
0:14:08 > 0:14:11"When I got to 'thou shalt not commit adultery',
0:14:11 > 0:14:13- "I remembered where I'd left it." - LAUGHTER
0:14:13 > 0:14:15APPLAUSE
0:14:19 > 0:14:21While Ronnie Corbett had his monologues,
0:14:21 > 0:14:25Ronnie Barker worked wonders with vocabulary.
0:14:25 > 0:14:28Whether it was a spoonerism or a double entendre,
0:14:28 > 0:14:32he loved mixing words up and messing with their meanings.
0:14:32 > 0:14:35You've just come back from a place where I've just returned from,
0:14:35 > 0:14:38- Australia...- Camerontown...oh, Australia.- Yes.- Yes, yes.
0:14:38 > 0:14:40- Did you have a good time there? - Lovely place.
0:14:40 > 0:14:42- Did you love it?- I adored it. - I adored it, it was beautiful.
0:14:42 > 0:14:45- Sydney, I was staying in Sydney. Were you?- Yes.- Beautiful.
0:14:45 > 0:14:48- You fell in love with Sydney?- I did, indeed.- Does your wife know?
0:14:48 > 0:14:49- Oh, my God.- Oh, here we go.
0:14:49 > 0:14:51No, no.
0:14:51 > 0:14:54- I... I thought it was lovely. - What about Adelaide?- What?
0:14:54 > 0:14:58- Did you fall in love with Adelaide? - No, I never got as far as her.
0:14:58 > 0:15:02Did you have a moment when you knew exactly, the moment on stage
0:15:02 > 0:15:04when you knew that you could act.
0:15:04 > 0:15:09- When you knew could do it. - Do it...yes.- Act.
0:15:09 > 0:15:12That was under the stage, actually, but we won't talk about that.
0:15:12 > 0:15:18No. No, no, no. I don't think I could put my finger on it, as they say.
0:15:18 > 0:15:20No, please...
0:15:20 > 0:15:24- Was it onstage or under the stage? - No, I don't think I...
0:15:24 > 0:15:27I think it was a gradual thing, I found that they kept giving me
0:15:27 > 0:15:30comedy parts and that's what I liked. And I liked that.
0:15:31 > 0:15:34You know I still, you still love the thrill of a really big laugh.
0:15:34 > 0:15:37It's still there, that's what makes you keep doing it.
0:15:37 > 0:15:38Let's move on to the present time
0:15:38 > 0:15:41because of the Two Ronnies, which is incredibly successful.
0:15:41 > 0:15:43And I suppose next to, alongside Eric and Ernie,
0:15:43 > 0:15:46you two, the Two Ronnies are the best-known
0:15:46 > 0:15:49and most popular comedians that we have in this country.
0:15:49 > 0:15:52- So far.- So far, yes. But what about the...?
0:15:53 > 0:15:56The one thing that characterises, in fact,
0:15:56 > 0:16:00the show is the love you have for words. For wordplay.
0:16:00 > 0:16:04Yes, I do love words. Yes, I do. I'm always thinking of...
0:16:04 > 0:16:07I always think in terms of words. I'm not a visual man, you know.
0:16:07 > 0:16:10I mean, I'm always thinking of words not only in, on the show
0:16:10 > 0:16:11but you know, here and now.
0:16:11 > 0:16:15Like, I love thinking of people's names backwards, you know.
0:16:15 > 0:16:19We've got the lovely lady Miss Streep who's coming on, she's, she's...
0:16:19 > 0:16:22I've forgotten what she is, backwards. What is she backwards?
0:16:22 > 0:16:24Peer-peer-peert. She's Miss Peert.
0:16:24 > 0:16:27- And then you've got Nottingnob, coming on.- Nottingnob?
0:16:27 > 0:16:29- Yes.- That's Chris Bonington. - Chris Bonington, yes.
0:16:29 > 0:16:31And of course, you're Nosikrap, you know.
0:16:31 > 0:16:34- I'm Nosikrap, yes, I know. - LAUGHTER
0:16:37 > 0:16:39You have, of course, made a virtue of this in the Two Ronnies,
0:16:39 > 0:16:42cos one of my favourite bits of it is the mispronunciation.
0:16:42 > 0:16:45- Oh, yes, yes. Do you want a bit of that?- I would like that.
0:16:45 > 0:16:49I'll give you that. And give you a bit of that.
0:16:49 > 0:16:52Good evening, last year, I spoke to you
0:16:52 > 0:16:56appealing for help for those who, like myself, have trouble with worms.
0:16:56 > 0:16:58They can't pronounce their worms properly.
0:16:58 > 0:17:01Now, I am the secretary for the Loyal Society for the Relief
0:17:01 > 0:17:04of Sufferers from Pismonunciation. LAUGHTER
0:17:04 > 0:17:07Now, the recent I'm once more squeaking to you tonight is
0:17:07 > 0:17:11that many people last time couldn't understand what I was spraying.
0:17:11 > 0:17:13So I'm back again on your little queens
0:17:13 > 0:17:15to straighten it and make it all queer.
0:17:15 > 0:17:17It's a terrible thung to be ting-tied.
0:17:17 > 0:17:20It's even worse when your weirds get all mucksed up
0:17:20 > 0:17:23and come out in whacka-say that you dink not what you thung you bing.
0:17:23 > 0:17:26Like I did just then, only crutch, much nurse.
0:17:26 > 0:17:28Though, it can be cured by careful draining and special draining
0:17:28 > 0:17:32stools, which the society has fed up all over the Twiddish Isles.
0:17:32 > 0:17:34And for the really dicky felt cases,
0:17:34 > 0:17:36we have a three-year bash course on the Isle of Fright.
0:17:37 > 0:17:39But the disease is spreading.
0:17:39 > 0:17:42It affects people from all walks of loaf,
0:17:42 > 0:17:46members of the swivel service, lawyers, silly sodders...
0:17:46 > 0:17:49Commercial dribblers, cop-sheepers and whack-tree ferverts.
0:17:49 > 0:17:51Especially on the night shirt.
0:17:51 > 0:17:54And famous piddly-ticians like Widdly Hamilton,
0:17:54 > 0:17:58not forgetting of course Penoch Owl. Stars of screege and stain
0:17:58 > 0:18:01like Black Mygraves, Frantic Howard and Peculiar Clark.
0:18:01 > 0:18:05And of course, Rudoll Noriev, the ballet dangler.
0:18:05 > 0:18:08LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE So, have you got that?
0:18:12 > 0:18:15Amongst the things that made the Two Ronnies different to other
0:18:15 > 0:18:19double acts was the fact that they both had individual successes
0:18:19 > 0:18:22alongside the Two Ronnies Show.
0:18:22 > 0:18:25Ronnie Barker had Porridge and Open All Hours.
0:18:25 > 0:18:27Ronnie Corbett played the son of a domineering
0:18:27 > 0:18:30mother in the sitcom Sorry!.
0:18:30 > 0:18:33And "sorry" is what he ended up saying a lot at the end of this
0:18:33 > 0:18:36interview with Terry Wogan.
0:18:36 > 0:18:38Just watch how it unfurls...
0:18:38 > 0:18:40I'm sorry to have been so long in getting here, Terry.
0:18:40 > 0:18:43- I know, you were in Australia. - Yes, I've been in Australia.
0:18:43 > 0:18:45- I nearly didn't make it today, either.- Why?
0:18:45 > 0:18:47Had a really nasty accident this morning at home.
0:18:47 > 0:18:50I was cleaning out the budgie cage and the door slammed on me.
0:18:50 > 0:18:53LAUGHTER
0:18:53 > 0:18:55I was stuck in there for an hour and a half, Terry. It was awful.
0:18:55 > 0:18:58And I thought, "Ring the bell," you know?
0:19:01 > 0:19:05- I'm sorry, I panic into these jokes. - What about your solo vehicle?
0:19:05 > 0:19:08- You're pleased, you must be, with the success of "Sorry!".- "Sorry!"?
0:19:08 > 0:19:10Oh, yes, yes, I enjoy doing that.
0:19:10 > 0:19:14- Do you identify with poor old put-upon Timothy Lumsden?- With Tim?
0:19:14 > 0:19:18Not truly but I can see, I've been told, a lot of people come up to me
0:19:18 > 0:19:22and say, a lot of people write in saying, "You may think this is over
0:19:22 > 0:19:24"the top but, I mean, I know somebody who lives like this.
0:19:24 > 0:19:26"I know, a mother and son."
0:19:26 > 0:19:28And if it isn't true throughout,
0:19:28 > 0:19:32there are elements of it that people see and think, "God, that's me."
0:19:32 > 0:19:34I even see myself as a father saying, "Oh, my God." You know,
0:19:34 > 0:19:36as a parent behaving like that.
0:19:36 > 0:19:39There's no elements of Timothy Lumsden in you, do you think?
0:19:39 > 0:19:40I don't...
0:19:40 > 0:19:43No, I don't mean that as a slur on your mother or anything.
0:19:43 > 0:19:45I don't talk to my mother much about the show.
0:19:45 > 0:19:47- She pretends she doesn't see it. - Does she?
0:19:47 > 0:19:51She says, "Oh...Ronnie."
0:19:51 > 0:19:55Yeah, but Timothy seems to be well-adjusted to the,
0:19:55 > 0:19:57at least the problem of his size.
0:19:57 > 0:19:59Would you say that's true of you as well?
0:19:59 > 0:20:01Or was that a terrific struggle for you early on,
0:20:01 > 0:20:02to come to terms with?
0:20:02 > 0:20:05Not a terrific struggle but I suppose I worried about it,
0:20:05 > 0:20:06like you do, as a teenager.
0:20:06 > 0:20:08But everybody worries about something
0:20:08 > 0:20:11whether it would be spots, or overweight.
0:20:11 > 0:20:13So I worried a bit about it
0:20:13 > 0:20:16but in the end it's been my, kind of, whole...
0:20:16 > 0:20:19I mean, it started my wanting to be in the business
0:20:19 > 0:20:22and the whole making of me as me, is that, now.
0:20:22 > 0:20:25Without it, I... I dread to think what would happen,
0:20:25 > 0:20:27if, you know, if there was something they could do,
0:20:27 > 0:20:30to suddenly make me shoot up, you know, I wouldn't...
0:20:30 > 0:20:33You could take Ronnie Barker's part and he could be the small one.
0:20:33 > 0:20:35- I'd shoot out.- If you get fat. - Timmy! Timmy!
0:20:35 > 0:20:38- If you get any...you get... - Oh, my God.
0:20:43 > 0:20:45What are you doing here?
0:20:47 > 0:20:49- Mother... - I said if we got separated,
0:20:49 > 0:20:53you were to go straight to the lost children's corner.
0:20:53 > 0:20:55Mother, I am 42.
0:20:55 > 0:21:00What is this place? It looks like the alien lounge at Luton Airport.
0:21:01 > 0:21:05- Excuse me, Mother, I am being interviewed.- What?- Have you...?
0:21:05 > 0:21:08I've told you about talking to strange men.
0:21:08 > 0:21:11- LAUGHTER - Excuse me, this is, this is...
0:21:11 > 0:21:14- I'm sorry, excuse me. This is Terry Wogan.- How do you do?
0:21:14 > 0:21:16How do you do, Mrs Lumsden?
0:21:16 > 0:21:19Is he wearing a demob suit? LAUGHTER
0:21:19 > 0:21:22I've never met a Wogan before but there must be
0:21:22 > 0:21:25lots of you in the telephone directory.
0:21:25 > 0:21:29Never trust a man with borrowed teeth, Timothy.
0:21:29 > 0:21:32LAUGHTER Oh, well.
0:21:32 > 0:21:35- All good things must come to an end.- I...
0:21:35 > 0:21:38Now, say thank you to this gentleman, whoever he is.
0:21:38 > 0:21:40- I'm sorry, Terry. I'm sorry... - But...
0:21:40 > 0:21:43"Thank you for having me."
0:21:45 > 0:21:46Thank you for having me.
0:21:46 > 0:21:49LAUGHTER
0:21:49 > 0:21:53- And don't ever let me catch you talking to him again.- Oh!
0:21:53 > 0:21:56CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:21:56 > 0:21:58Come along. Home!
0:22:11 > 0:22:15If people thought Ronnie Corbett was just like Timothy Lumsden,
0:22:15 > 0:22:18with Ronnie Barker it was impossible to say if he was
0:22:18 > 0:22:23more like Fletcher from Porridge or Arkwright from Open All Hours.
0:22:23 > 0:22:28One reason for that was that Barker was a genius with voices,
0:22:28 > 0:22:30which is something he discusses here...
0:22:32 > 0:22:37I was going to ask you about the varicose and various parts...
0:22:37 > 0:22:40which you performed in the course...
0:22:43 > 0:22:45- In the course... - Course? Have you spell that?
0:22:45 > 0:22:47The course of your television series...
0:22:47 > 0:22:49My God, I'll get this question out if it kills me.
0:22:49 > 0:22:51In the course of your television series...
0:22:51 > 0:22:55HE SNORES
0:22:55 > 0:22:58- Yes? In the course of my television series, what?- I remember talking...
0:22:58 > 0:23:01- What was the first half of the question?- I remember talking...
0:23:01 > 0:23:04Why are my questions longer than your answers?
0:23:04 > 0:23:07Beryl Reid telling me that when she starts to take on a character...
0:23:07 > 0:23:10- No, she didn't tell me now. - I thought she'd come on.
0:23:10 > 0:23:12She said she starts from the shoes. She gets a pair of shoes
0:23:12 > 0:23:14and builds the character from the shoes.
0:23:14 > 0:23:16She's told me that, yes. It's true, yes.
0:23:16 > 0:23:18Cos she hobbles about the house in those little shoes.
0:23:18 > 0:23:20Never mind that. How do you construct a character?
0:23:20 > 0:23:24- Do you take it from the shoes or the other way? - I start with the voice.
0:23:24 > 0:23:26The voice. I think of the voice first.
0:23:26 > 0:23:29I think, you know, I just like to hear this sound of the voice,
0:23:29 > 0:23:31whatever it is.
0:23:31 > 0:23:34Or, you know, Fletcher. I mean, you know, " Naff off".
0:23:34 > 0:23:37That's my expression. That's Fletcher's expression, "naff off."
0:23:37 > 0:23:40- It's not Princess Anne. - No, no, no. Naff off, son, go on.
0:23:40 > 0:23:44And I, and then, from the voice comes the face, I think.
0:23:44 > 0:23:46IN WELSH ACCENT: The Welsh one, you know, Welsh, you see.
0:23:46 > 0:23:48Your eyes go like that.
0:23:48 > 0:23:50Oh...
0:23:50 > 0:23:53I think accents come...
0:23:53 > 0:23:55I don't know if it's accents cause the shape of the face or...
0:23:55 > 0:23:58I think it's the shape of the face that causes the accent.
0:23:58 > 0:24:00IN FRENCH ACCENT: I think, because French people,
0:24:00 > 0:24:02hold their faces like this.
0:24:02 > 0:24:05IN SCOTTISH ACCENT: Scottish people. If you all put your face like that,
0:24:05 > 0:24:07and speak normally, you sound quite Scottish, you know?
0:24:07 > 0:24:10Stick your chin out.
0:24:10 > 0:24:13- Are you a funny man at home? - No, I never go home, no.
0:24:13 > 0:24:14LAUGHTER
0:24:20 > 0:24:23I'm sort of... Sometimes I'm funny. I make my wife laugh.
0:24:23 > 0:24:25But she'd laugh to see a pudding crawl, as they say.
0:24:27 > 0:24:30The essence of a happy marriage - as long as you can make your wife laugh.
0:24:30 > 0:24:33Oh, yes. Well, I made her laugh the first night.
0:24:33 > 0:24:37Oh, yes.
0:24:37 > 0:24:39What about this Corbett person that you work with,
0:24:39 > 0:24:42- how do you know him?- No, he's a man. He's a man.- Is he?- Oh, yes.
0:24:42 > 0:24:45- How do you get on with him? - Eh?- How do you get on with them?
0:24:45 > 0:24:48- We start with Lego. - Let's have the truth.
0:24:48 > 0:24:49Ah...
0:24:52 > 0:24:55Well, I just, I take him out in the morning,
0:24:55 > 0:25:01fit him up and work through the day. Put him back in the box, nice as pie.
0:25:01 > 0:25:03No, we get on very... we have a lovely time.
0:25:03 > 0:25:06Despite their closeness and the obvious affection
0:25:06 > 0:25:08they had for each other,
0:25:08 > 0:25:11it was rare for the Two Ronnies to be interviewed together.
0:25:11 > 0:25:14But here we have one of those moments capturing them
0:25:14 > 0:25:19in 1978, after they'd both received OBEs from the Queen.
0:25:20 > 0:25:23- Can you describe the ceremony? - Describe the ceremony.
0:25:23 > 0:25:25It was rather moving, wasn't it?
0:25:25 > 0:25:27I thought the bride's father was wonderful. No, it was lovely.
0:25:27 > 0:25:30- Nerve-racking and sort of moving, really.- Yes, very.
0:25:30 > 0:25:33You got very nervous. We both had to go to the spend-a-penny, didn't we?
0:25:33 > 0:25:35- Yes, I had to use the royal we. Twice.- Yes, yes.
0:25:35 > 0:25:37What did the Queen say to you?
0:25:37 > 0:25:39She said that she was very pleased that...
0:25:39 > 0:25:41to be able to be doing this for us,
0:25:41 > 0:25:44because she thought it was rather nice to make people laugh
0:25:44 > 0:25:47in these days when perhaps there wasn't quite so much to laugh about.
0:25:47 > 0:25:49She said. I didn't know whether to agree with their about that.
0:25:49 > 0:25:52Then she said, "Are you going to be on the stage again together?"
0:25:52 > 0:25:55And I said, "We have never appeared on the stage before
0:25:55 > 0:25:58"but we are going to, at the Palladium, for the summer."
0:25:58 > 0:26:01- And I had the temerity to ask her to come.- Yes.- And she said she would.
0:26:01 > 0:26:03Yes, which was rather nice.
0:26:03 > 0:26:05- We were surprised how few staff there were in the place.- Yes.
0:26:05 > 0:26:08Because at the end of the ceremony Her Majesty the Queen
0:26:08 > 0:26:10swept down the staircase, didn't she?
0:26:10 > 0:26:13Then she dusted the mantelpiece and did a little hoovering
0:26:13 > 0:26:15and went home.
0:26:15 > 0:26:18Yeah, it was lovely. It was very, very, very impressive.
0:26:18 > 0:26:20Actually, I can't stay very long
0:26:20 > 0:26:22because I've got to be back on a wedding cake at 3 o'clock. So I...
0:26:22 > 0:26:26No, it's not true. Not true. He gets all his clothes from Action Man.
0:26:27 > 0:26:32That moment contains everything wonderful about the Ronnies B and C.
0:26:32 > 0:26:35Even on a hugely significant occasion,
0:26:35 > 0:26:38they just couldn't stop trying to make it funny.
0:26:38 > 0:26:41Just like they never ever missed an opportunity
0:26:41 > 0:26:43to make the British public laugh.
0:26:43 > 0:26:45APPLAUSE
0:26:45 > 0:26:48Well, that's all we have time for this week.
0:26:48 > 0:26:50Next week we'll talk to a man...
0:26:52 > 0:26:55Next week we'll talk to a man who crossed a table tennis ball
0:26:55 > 0:26:59with an extremely tall chamberpot
0:26:59 > 0:27:01and got a ping-pong-piddle-high-po.
0:27:01 > 0:27:04LAUGHTER
0:27:04 > 0:27:07And in the divorce court today, an 85-year-old farmer
0:27:07 > 0:27:10divorced his 17-year-old wife because he couldn't keep his hands off her.
0:27:10 > 0:27:14He's now sacked all his hands and bought a combine harvester.
0:27:14 > 0:27:16LAUGHTER
0:27:18 > 0:27:20That's all we've got time for this evening
0:27:20 > 0:27:22- so good night from me. - And good night from him.
0:27:22 > 0:27:25- Good night, now.- Good night. APPLAUSE