0:00:15 > 0:00:18Alfred Hitchcock is one of cinema's greatest
0:00:18 > 0:00:20and most influential directors.
0:00:20 > 0:00:23His style is instantly recognisable -
0:00:23 > 0:00:27the striking visuals, the tense plots,
0:00:27 > 0:00:29and the elaborate set pieces
0:00:29 > 0:00:33all helped to earn him a reputation as the master of suspense.
0:00:33 > 0:00:36He was in total control.
0:00:36 > 0:00:38Everything was planned to the smallest detail
0:00:38 > 0:00:42before filming began. And an actor's job
0:00:42 > 0:00:45was to see those plans through.
0:00:45 > 0:00:49I'm very much interested in your attitude to actors,
0:00:49 > 0:00:53because you once said that film stars are only puppets to be used in films.
0:00:53 > 0:00:55Walt Disney, you said, had the best idea -
0:00:55 > 0:00:58"When he didn't like them, he tore them up."
0:00:58 > 0:01:00Now, this implied, and that's an understatement in itself,
0:01:00 > 0:01:03that you haven't got a very high regard for actors.
0:01:03 > 0:01:06Or is it only stars that you object to?
0:01:06 > 0:01:07I think it's...
0:01:10 > 0:01:13It's a difficulty of stars - they want to be writers today,
0:01:13 > 0:01:16you know? They want to be producers.
0:01:16 > 0:01:20They won't stick, like any decent cobbler would,
0:01:20 > 0:01:22to their last, you know?
0:01:22 > 0:01:24And I think that's one of the big problems -
0:01:24 > 0:01:27when an actor wants to rewrite and arrives on the set
0:01:27 > 0:01:30with his scene all ready...
0:01:30 > 0:01:33I had that occasion happen to me once,
0:01:33 > 0:01:37an actor came with a scene completely rewritten at 9am.
0:01:37 > 0:01:42I said, "What about your co-star in the picture?
0:01:42 > 0:01:46"She doesn't know a word of this. Hasn't been able to learn a word.
0:01:46 > 0:01:49"Don't you have any regard for her?"
0:01:49 > 0:01:51Not at all, it was just that he wanted to change the scene.
0:01:51 > 0:01:54Course it wasn't permitted, naturally.
0:01:55 > 0:02:00In this episode, we'll be focusing largely
0:02:00 > 0:02:02on Hitchcock's leading ladies,
0:02:02 > 0:02:06but his dealings with all his actors were interesting.
0:02:06 > 0:02:11He once denied describing all actors as cattle,
0:02:11 > 0:02:13saying that he'd been misquoted,
0:02:13 > 0:02:16and what he'd actually said was,
0:02:16 > 0:02:19"All actors should be treated like cattle."
0:02:19 > 0:02:22But he loved to be provocative,
0:02:22 > 0:02:24and many of Hollywood's greatest stars
0:02:24 > 0:02:27would choose to work with him more than once -
0:02:27 > 0:02:32Cary Grant, James Stewart, Grace Kelly and Joan Fontaine.
0:02:32 > 0:02:36Can you say what it was like to work with Hitchcock for the first time?
0:02:36 > 0:02:39He was darling. A bit formidable.
0:02:39 > 0:02:43Enormously bawdy sense of humour.
0:02:43 > 0:02:48And he had a habit -
0:02:48 > 0:02:49whether it was conscious or not,
0:02:49 > 0:02:51I don't know - but of rather keeping
0:02:51 > 0:02:54all his actors at loggerheads.
0:02:54 > 0:02:58So he would be the one in the middle - rather puckish.
0:02:58 > 0:03:02Good for me, because it made me suffer quite a lot
0:03:02 > 0:03:06and feel quite miserable all the time,
0:03:06 > 0:03:08and it probably came out on the screen that way.
0:03:10 > 0:03:11Why don't you go?
0:03:11 > 0:03:14Why don't you leave Manderley?
0:03:14 > 0:03:16He doesn't need you.
0:03:16 > 0:03:18He's got his memories.
0:03:18 > 0:03:21He doesn't love you, he wants to be alone again with her.
0:03:23 > 0:03:25You've nothing to stay for.
0:03:26 > 0:03:28You've nothing to live for, really, have you?
0:03:30 > 0:03:32Look down there. It's easy, isn't it?
0:03:34 > 0:03:35Why don't you?
0:03:37 > 0:03:38Why don't you?
0:03:39 > 0:03:41Go on.
0:03:42 > 0:03:44Go on.
0:03:44 > 0:03:47Don't be afraid.
0:03:51 > 0:03:55He had absolutely no nonsense about
0:03:55 > 0:03:58mood or meaning or any of that.
0:03:58 > 0:04:02He was telling a story, expected you to tell it with him,
0:04:02 > 0:04:05in absolutely common terms.
0:04:05 > 0:04:09No theories, like the Actors Studio, or any of that.
0:04:09 > 0:04:13Made it terribly clear. And I remember finally,
0:04:13 > 0:04:16I had to cry one day, quite a lot, and I said,
0:04:16 > 0:04:18"Hitch, I just can't cry any more."
0:04:18 > 0:04:20He said, "Well, kid, what are we going to do?"
0:04:20 > 0:04:24And I said, "Well, slap me in the face." He said, "Fine." Off he went, slapped me in the face.
0:04:24 > 0:04:27I went back and the tears came down, partly pain,
0:04:27 > 0:04:30but a great deal of gratitude for his understanding.
0:04:30 > 0:04:32Was wonderful of him.
0:04:32 > 0:04:34You said that he made you suffer quite a lot during the making
0:04:34 > 0:04:38- of that thing, and that it was probably good for you. In what way do you mean?- Oh, well,
0:04:38 > 0:04:41I think that if you are playing an insignificant little girl
0:04:41 > 0:04:45that has a terrible inferiority complex,
0:04:45 > 0:04:47that it's better not to praise her too much
0:04:47 > 0:04:51and tell her she's marvellous, or you'll undo what you want.
0:04:51 > 0:04:52It was a little difficult.
0:04:52 > 0:04:56I remember Larry Olivier telling a rather off-colour joke -
0:04:56 > 0:04:58as a matter of fact, the first time I ever heard
0:04:58 > 0:05:01a certain four-letter word ever spoken.
0:05:01 > 0:05:06And Hitch said, "Oh, I wouldn't speak like that in front of Joan.
0:05:06 > 0:05:08"After all, she is a bride." And Larry said,
0:05:08 > 0:05:10"Oh, who'd you marry?"
0:05:10 > 0:05:13And I shyly said, "Well, Brian Aherne."
0:05:13 > 0:05:16And he said, "Oh, couldn't you have done better than that?"
0:05:16 > 0:05:19So I think that's part of the treatment I was getting.
0:05:19 > 0:05:22- It certainly helped the acting. - It helped the acting to the extent
0:05:22 > 0:05:25that you were nominated for an Academy Award in that movie,
0:05:25 > 0:05:29- weren't you?- And the picture won it. Hitchcock I don't think got it.
0:05:29 > 0:05:31I may be wrong, but I don't think he got it for that.
0:05:31 > 0:05:34Then, of course, I did Suspicion.
0:05:34 > 0:05:36Did get it for that. Also directed by Hitch.
0:05:36 > 0:05:39And I don't think the picture got it, but there you are, that happens.
0:05:41 > 0:05:45Joan Fontaine spoke there of Hitchcock's disdain
0:05:45 > 0:05:47for the method style of acting,
0:05:47 > 0:05:51and that certainly comes across in his comments here.
0:05:51 > 0:05:55You don't think, then, that the actor can contribute anything artistically?
0:05:55 > 0:05:57I mean, I don't mean just in his performance, but in...
0:05:57 > 0:06:00Well, I think he can contribute a lot in performance
0:06:00 > 0:06:02and interpreting the role,
0:06:02 > 0:06:07- and come with bits of business and that kind of thing.- Mm.
0:06:07 > 0:06:11You know, he should develop his characterisation to the fullest,
0:06:11 > 0:06:13and not try to rewrite it.
0:06:13 > 0:06:17When you say rewrite, do you object to the altering of one or two words?
0:06:17 > 0:06:19No, no, not at all.
0:06:19 > 0:06:23I do object to changing storyline, and that kind of thing.
0:06:23 > 0:06:26And I think a lot of it comes, the trouble,
0:06:26 > 0:06:30is when actors go to these schools
0:06:30 > 0:06:34and they're taught improvisation.
0:06:34 > 0:06:37They've given a situation, they say, "Work it out."
0:06:37 > 0:06:40Well, I say it's not acting, it's writing,
0:06:40 > 0:06:43when you tell an actor to work something out.
0:06:43 > 0:06:48Improvisation is not making up the pure performance,
0:06:48 > 0:06:52it's making up a scene, and it's the job of a writer to do that.
0:06:52 > 0:06:57Would you accept improvisation as an exercise?
0:06:57 > 0:07:01Well, I certainly would not. In a studio, I wouldn't.
0:07:01 > 0:07:03They can do it at their school as much as they like,
0:07:03 > 0:07:05so long as they don't come in the studio
0:07:05 > 0:07:08and want to improvise on the set.
0:07:08 > 0:07:10- Mm.- That would be no good at all.
0:07:11 > 0:07:14Method actors might not have been happy with the attitude Hitchcock
0:07:14 > 0:07:19displays there, but Ingrid Bergman had no such issues with him.
0:07:19 > 0:07:22She worked with Hitchcock three times,
0:07:22 > 0:07:26on Under Capricorn, Spellbound and Notorious.
0:07:26 > 0:07:28And in this exchange, it's clear
0:07:28 > 0:07:31how much she admired him and his creativity.
0:07:31 > 0:07:35Which of the directors have been most useful to you? Which of the directors you've worked with?
0:07:35 > 0:07:38Well, I don't want to answer that question, because, you see,
0:07:38 > 0:07:41if I mention one, then I'll hurt somebody else.
0:07:41 > 0:07:43So I think I will just skip that answer.
0:07:43 > 0:07:46What do you look for in a director?
0:07:46 > 0:07:50- Is that a sensible question, can you answer that?- Yes, of course.
0:07:50 > 0:07:53Imagination, and...
0:07:53 > 0:07:57that he knows what he's doing,
0:07:57 > 0:08:00and that he's able to communicate it to me.
0:08:00 > 0:08:03There was censorship in America, wasn't there? The Hays Office in the '40s,
0:08:03 > 0:08:05- particularly, was very hot on anybody doing anything.- Yes.
0:08:05 > 0:08:08Did you have trouble in this way? Did you ever try to swing the law?
0:08:08 > 0:08:11Well, we had trouble several times with these things.
0:08:11 > 0:08:15And now, for instance, if we take Notorious,
0:08:15 > 0:08:20Hitchcock was very clever and invented a love scene
0:08:20 > 0:08:23with a kiss that became famous in those days.
0:08:23 > 0:08:26Looking at it today, I mean, it's laughable,
0:08:26 > 0:08:29for what we see nowadays on the screen.
0:08:29 > 0:08:33But a kiss couldn't last more than two seconds, I think it was,
0:08:33 > 0:08:36it had to break. And it could not only be in...
0:08:36 > 0:08:39It couldn't be in a horizontal position,
0:08:39 > 0:08:43- even with clothes on, it had to be sitting down or standing up. - INTERVIEWER LAUGHS
0:08:43 > 0:08:46And he invented this thing that they tried to cut,
0:08:46 > 0:08:49but he won, because not one kiss was longer than two seconds,
0:08:49 > 0:08:52but there were so many of them, you see? So it looked like...
0:08:52 > 0:08:54And that became a very famous love scene.
0:08:54 > 0:08:57- This was you and Cary Grant?- Yes.
0:08:58 > 0:09:03Ingrid Bergman was one of the finest actresses Hitchcock directed,
0:09:03 > 0:09:06but she doesn't fall into the category defined by critics
0:09:06 > 0:09:09as the classic Hitchcock actress -
0:09:09 > 0:09:11the cool, elegant blonde.
0:09:12 > 0:09:15"Blondes make the best victims," he once said.
0:09:15 > 0:09:21"They are like virgin snow that shows up the bloody footprints."
0:09:21 > 0:09:25There is, I'd think you'd agree, Mr Hitchcock, a Hitchcock woman -
0:09:25 > 0:09:28very tall, very cool, iceberg outside
0:09:28 > 0:09:31and dampened down fires within.
0:09:31 > 0:09:35Now, I know you've never submitted to the psychiatrist's couch,
0:09:35 > 0:09:37but have you any idea at all
0:09:37 > 0:09:40why you have this obsession with this kind of woman?
0:09:40 > 0:09:43I'm only obsessed because I don't believe in
0:09:43 > 0:09:48stamping the woman with the word "sex" all over her.
0:09:48 > 0:09:50I think it should be discovered
0:09:50 > 0:09:53in the course of our getting acquainted with her.
0:09:53 > 0:09:58It's more interesting for this thing to be not apparent.
0:09:58 > 0:10:01In other words, we don't have to have the sex
0:10:01 > 0:10:04hanging round her neck like baubles all over her.
0:10:06 > 0:10:08I think it should be...
0:10:08 > 0:10:10There should be a certain mystery about it.
0:10:10 > 0:10:14- But why is she always blonde? I mean, even Julie Andrews... - I think that's traditional.
0:10:14 > 0:10:18I think that dates back to Mary Pickford, you know,
0:10:18 > 0:10:21if you remember. Tradition of the cinema is that the hero
0:10:21 > 0:10:25was always a dark man and the heroine was always a blonde.
0:10:25 > 0:10:31I think it's the simplification of identification, really.
0:10:33 > 0:10:35The identification of a blonde
0:10:35 > 0:10:41is key to the plot of one of Hitchcock's greatest films -
0:10:41 > 0:10:44Vertigo. Kim Novak starred
0:10:44 > 0:10:47as a woman pressured into changing her appearance
0:10:47 > 0:10:49by an obsessed James Stewart.
0:10:49 > 0:10:51That's not it. Nothing like it.
0:10:51 > 0:10:53But you said grey, sir.
0:10:53 > 0:10:56Now, look, I just want an ordinary, simple grey suit.
0:10:56 > 0:11:00- I like that one, Scottie. - No, no, it's not right.
0:11:00 > 0:11:03The gentleman seems to know what he wants.
0:11:03 > 0:11:06All right, we'll find it.
0:11:10 > 0:11:13The pressure Kim Novak's character comes under in the film
0:11:13 > 0:11:15turned out to be remarkably similar
0:11:15 > 0:11:18to the reality actresses faced in the 1950s,
0:11:18 > 0:11:22as she described to Michael Parkinson in 1981.
0:11:24 > 0:11:27It was really...
0:11:27 > 0:11:29Well, there was a lot of stress at the time,
0:11:29 > 0:11:31because the star system was such that
0:11:31 > 0:11:34you had to work under tremendous pressure.
0:11:34 > 0:11:38There was so much emphasis put on the look,
0:11:38 > 0:11:42on the image. They never really cared about what you were inside,
0:11:42 > 0:11:44it was as long as you projected the right image,
0:11:44 > 0:11:46and that usually meant how much lipstick,
0:11:46 > 0:11:49how you wore your hair, things like that.
0:11:49 > 0:11:53And there was such a need to always want to express yourself
0:11:53 > 0:11:56and be yourself, but it wasn't the time.
0:11:56 > 0:11:58Of course, you came under the wing, if that's the right word,
0:11:58 > 0:12:02of Harry Cohn, who's either described as a mogul or a monster,
0:12:02 > 0:12:04whichever way you look at him.
0:12:04 > 0:12:07But he was one of the last great impresarios, wasn't he,
0:12:07 > 0:12:09of picking out stars like yourself
0:12:09 > 0:12:12and making them in his image. He saw you, it's said,
0:12:12 > 0:12:16as a replacement for Rita Hayworth, is that right?
0:12:16 > 0:12:19I think the story got changed around a little bit,
0:12:19 > 0:12:21a little bit exaggerated.
0:12:21 > 0:12:24There was always a number of people that were being built
0:12:24 > 0:12:27and groomed for stardom, you know?
0:12:27 > 0:12:30And I think at the time we had about ten girls and about eight men,
0:12:30 > 0:12:33Jack Lemmon was one of them, being groomed,
0:12:33 > 0:12:35and a couple of us made it in that group.
0:12:35 > 0:12:37I don't think it was really a matter
0:12:37 > 0:12:40of trying to take Rita Hayworth's place.
0:12:40 > 0:12:42But he was, he was a strange man,
0:12:42 > 0:12:44but there's a lot to say for him, really.
0:12:44 > 0:12:46When you think about it, when I look back,
0:12:46 > 0:12:50- I mean, he put the fear of God in me. He was terrifying, really.- Really?
0:12:50 > 0:12:53Oh, God. To walk in his office and to see, you just...
0:12:53 > 0:12:55And he was so...
0:12:55 > 0:13:00Well, he was like a big gorilla. Like King Kong, really.
0:13:00 > 0:13:02But on the other hand, he knew his business,
0:13:02 > 0:13:05he knew what he wanted, he knew the kind of films
0:13:05 > 0:13:07that should be made, and he knew how to get his results.
0:13:07 > 0:13:10And mostly by putting fear into people, really.
0:13:10 > 0:13:14I mean, he did like to work with fear as his main hold over everybody.
0:13:14 > 0:13:17Did he wants to change you physically? Did he...
0:13:17 > 0:13:20Well, yes, that in other words, there were always formulas.
0:13:20 > 0:13:24They felt, well, this worked, that worked, let's put it together.
0:13:24 > 0:13:26In fact, when they sent me to the make-up room at the studio
0:13:26 > 0:13:29the first time, and I sat in the make-up chair
0:13:29 > 0:13:33and he looked at me, not trying to see what features I had
0:13:33 > 0:13:36that might be good in bringing out, but he looked and he thought,
0:13:36 > 0:13:39"Now, let's see, let's try a Joan Crawford mouth
0:13:39 > 0:13:44"and Marilyn Monroe hair, and..." you know, and all the different...
0:13:44 > 0:13:48And he put it all together. By the time you got out of the chair,
0:13:48 > 0:13:50you were so insecure, because I looked in the mirror,
0:13:50 > 0:13:53it was absolutely frightening, I didn't look at all like myself.
0:13:53 > 0:13:57So there was constantly a little bit of...
0:13:57 > 0:14:00rebellion, I suppose. But I didn't do it outwardly,
0:14:00 > 0:14:02cos I felt, well, they were experts,
0:14:02 > 0:14:04and I didn't really want to say anything too much.
0:14:04 > 0:14:06But I'd go in the back, in the dressing room
0:14:06 > 0:14:09and rub off the lipstick and try to compromise,
0:14:09 > 0:14:11put on something a little different.
0:14:11 > 0:14:13But it was mostly the look that they tried to change.
0:14:42 > 0:14:45- Well?- It should be back from your face and pinned at the neck.
0:14:45 > 0:14:48I told her that. I told you that.
0:14:48 > 0:14:50We tried it.
0:14:50 > 0:14:53It just didn't seem to suit me.
0:14:58 > 0:14:59Please, Judy.
0:15:20 > 0:15:22You gained a reputation, did you not -
0:15:22 > 0:15:25I don't know if this is hearsay, but it's what I've read -
0:15:25 > 0:15:28for being quite difficult on one or two movies in this time in Hollywood.
0:15:28 > 0:15:30Was that because you were trying to assert yourself?
0:15:30 > 0:15:33- That you were trying to say, "I don't want any of this"? - I think to a large degree.
0:15:33 > 0:15:37They got very upset when I would smear off the lipstick and re-do my hair.
0:15:37 > 0:15:40But not only that, yes, they would mind
0:15:40 > 0:15:43if you would try to discuss how you wanted to play the role.
0:15:43 > 0:15:47I mean, after all, there was not just the fact that they were the boss,
0:15:47 > 0:15:50but at that time there were less rights for women as well,
0:15:50 > 0:15:54in the sense that... I mean, it was enough trying to say what you want,
0:15:54 > 0:15:57let alone being a woman saying it. I would always want to discuss it
0:15:57 > 0:16:01and try to bring in my own self, if I could, to a part.
0:16:01 > 0:16:06I felt I had something to offer in my own way.
0:16:07 > 0:16:10Two years after Vertigo came the film that,
0:16:10 > 0:16:13in terms of reputation, raised Hitchcock
0:16:13 > 0:16:17to a whole new level - Psycho.
0:16:17 > 0:16:20Audiences across the world were shocked
0:16:20 > 0:16:23when the leading lady was killed halfway through the movie,
0:16:23 > 0:16:27in the most unexpected and brilliantly executed manner.
0:16:28 > 0:16:32The blonde this time is Janet Leigh.
0:16:32 > 0:16:36To me, Marion Crane was a normal kind of girl.
0:16:36 > 0:16:39She sang in the church choir, she was a good student.
0:16:39 > 0:16:42- Nothing to do with the movie. - Not in the script
0:16:42 > 0:16:44- or in the book or anything?- No, no,
0:16:44 > 0:16:47this is just what I wanted Marion to be.
0:16:47 > 0:16:50She was a good daughter. Her parents were killed,
0:16:50 > 0:16:54so she had to give up the idea of going to college so she went to work.
0:16:54 > 0:16:56She gave up a young love, that maybe she would have
0:16:56 > 0:16:59been married and had children by that time.
0:16:59 > 0:17:01- It's very simple clothes, isn't it? And no jewellery.- Oh, yeah.
0:17:01 > 0:17:03The dress was bought off the rack.
0:17:03 > 0:17:07It was something that Marion Crane could have afforded as a secretary.
0:17:07 > 0:17:09That's why there's not a lot of make-up,
0:17:09 > 0:17:13and the hair is very simple, it's not styled, you know.
0:17:13 > 0:17:18People have continued to be fascinated by her and by that film.
0:17:18 > 0:17:20Why has it stayed in people's minds?
0:17:20 > 0:17:25I think because of Hitchcock's brilliance
0:17:25 > 0:17:30and his ability to tell his story so tightly.
0:17:30 > 0:17:34He gets the audience right going on this path,
0:17:34 > 0:17:39right to where we can show, and then provokes the audience
0:17:39 > 0:17:42- into taking it...- Take the leap. - They take the leap,
0:17:42 > 0:17:45they finish the creative process.
0:17:45 > 0:17:47You can forget a photograph,
0:17:47 > 0:17:50but you can't forget what you've created here.
0:17:50 > 0:17:53- Dirty night.- Do you have a vacancy?
0:17:53 > 0:17:57Oh, we have 12 vacancies. 12 cabins, 12 vacancies.
0:17:57 > 0:17:59They moved away the highway.
0:18:00 > 0:18:03Oh, I thought I'd gotten off the main road.
0:18:04 > 0:18:05I knew you must have.
0:18:05 > 0:18:08Nobody ever stops here any more unless they've done that.
0:18:09 > 0:18:10But...
0:18:10 > 0:18:14Here's the sequence - one of the most famous ever filmed.
0:18:16 > 0:18:19- This is hard for me to watch. - Is it hard for you to watch?- Yeah.
0:18:19 > 0:18:22- See...- See, look at the smile.
0:18:22 > 0:18:25Yeah, you see, this is having made the right choice,
0:18:25 > 0:18:28- and she knows she's made the right choice.- Yeah.
0:18:28 > 0:18:33And it's washing not just her face and her hair, it's washing her soul.
0:18:33 > 0:18:37- Her soul.- Yeah. And so, knowing this,
0:18:37 > 0:18:39- the audience is almost at peace at this point.- Yeah.
0:18:39 > 0:18:42You know, maybe she's going to go with one or the other,
0:18:42 > 0:18:46that we don't know yet. But now... SCREAMING FROM SCREEN
0:18:46 > 0:18:49I'm sorry to ask you to watch this, cos I know it's difficult,
0:18:49 > 0:18:51but if we could talk about some of the techniques in it,
0:18:51 > 0:18:55it'd be very interesting. For example, apparently Mr Hitchcock
0:18:55 > 0:18:59shot slow motion sequences and everything like that
0:18:59 > 0:19:03to add to the... We're watching it in slow motion here.
0:19:03 > 0:19:05Yeah, see, you never...
0:19:05 > 0:19:09People swear that they saw the knife go in the body
0:19:09 > 0:19:13- and they saw blood spurt out. - Yeah.- They never, ever did.- No.
0:19:13 > 0:19:17What Mr Hitchcock did was, when the knife went back,
0:19:17 > 0:19:22with the music - the music was the thrust of the knife -
0:19:22 > 0:19:25and as the music and the knife went forward,
0:19:25 > 0:19:29you saw a quick shot of a tum, you know,
0:19:29 > 0:19:33or of here, or a leg or something,
0:19:33 > 0:19:36and you saw the knife go in there, but you never did,
0:19:36 > 0:19:39because the next thing you saw was the knife coming back out.
0:19:39 > 0:19:43So you swore you saw the knife go in and it was being pulled back out.
0:19:43 > 0:19:45What's striking when you look at this in slow motion
0:19:45 > 0:19:48is you can see a kind of terror on your face.
0:19:48 > 0:19:52- It wasn't difficult. - Look at that. Look at that.
0:19:52 > 0:19:55Yeah, you have that apparition.
0:19:55 > 0:19:57I mean, just the whole idea of it.
0:19:57 > 0:19:59Cos there was someone there who was Mother.
0:19:59 > 0:20:02I mean, not Tony, but you know.
0:20:02 > 0:20:06And there was a knife - not a real one, but still.
0:20:06 > 0:20:09I mean, just think of having something come at you like that,
0:20:09 > 0:20:14and it doesn't take much imagination to...
0:20:14 > 0:20:16I mean, to lose yourself in the fear
0:20:16 > 0:20:18and in the frenzy,
0:20:18 > 0:20:22and in the complete horror.
0:20:22 > 0:20:25And it's the way it's shot that some of it is out of focus -
0:20:25 > 0:20:27look at that, that's clearly an out of focus shot -
0:20:27 > 0:20:29and then the knife comes into the foreground
0:20:29 > 0:20:32- and then it goes into focus and it cuts through water.- Yeah, and you...
0:20:32 > 0:20:36- It cuts through the water, but never the skin.- Never the skin.- Never.- No.
0:20:36 > 0:20:37Look at that.
0:20:40 > 0:20:44It's agony. I mean, you know, you see, cos...
0:20:44 > 0:20:48Imagine what it would be. That's why I don't take a shower.
0:20:48 > 0:20:51- And it's true, I cannot... - Is that really true?
0:20:51 > 0:20:54That really, I swear to you, is true.
0:20:54 > 0:20:57And it wasn't until I saw it -
0:20:57 > 0:21:00not the shooting of it, cos that's done in pieces,
0:21:00 > 0:21:04it's too difficult - but when I saw it, and realised
0:21:04 > 0:21:10how completely defenceless we are in a shower.
0:21:10 > 0:21:13Think about it. The water's going, you can't hear,
0:21:13 > 0:21:18you can't see, cos the curtain or door or whatever is there,
0:21:18 > 0:21:21and you're naked, you're defenceless.
0:21:21 > 0:21:26So, you know, why would I put myself in that position ever again?
0:21:26 > 0:21:27- Yeah.- I couldn't.
0:21:27 > 0:21:31OK, let's get to the end of this extraordinary sequence.
0:21:33 > 0:21:39This, to me, I think is one of the most pathetic - this next shot,
0:21:39 > 0:21:43this one - you don't plan things like that.
0:21:43 > 0:21:48Where you go down, it just happened, and the hair sticks up on the...
0:21:48 > 0:21:50That, to me, is so pathetic.
0:21:50 > 0:21:55It just shows the complete abject horror
0:21:55 > 0:21:59of such a... You know, of such violence.
0:21:59 > 0:22:01Because it...
0:22:01 > 0:22:05There's no control. The body has lost control.
0:22:06 > 0:22:09Were you ever worried at the fact
0:22:09 > 0:22:13that this was a horrific film?
0:22:13 > 0:22:15Hitchcock would sell it as a black comedy
0:22:15 > 0:22:17and talk about an exquisite murder.
0:22:17 > 0:22:20Was there any sort of ethical problem about that for you?
0:22:20 > 0:22:24- No.- No.- No, I just thought he was...
0:22:24 > 0:22:25He was a great showman,
0:22:25 > 0:22:29besides being the craftsman that he was, and...
0:22:29 > 0:22:33Oh, no, I didn't feel that at all.
0:22:33 > 0:22:36This was obviously entertainment.
0:22:38 > 0:22:41It was Psycho that cemented Hitchcock's reputation
0:22:41 > 0:22:44as the master manipulator of audiences.
0:22:44 > 0:22:48Manipulated is how the next blonde who entered his life
0:22:48 > 0:22:53claimed he made her feel. Tippi Hedren was a model
0:22:53 > 0:22:56who Hitchcock spotted in a television commercial,
0:22:56 > 0:23:01and then he cast her as the lead in his film The Birds,
0:23:01 > 0:23:04despite the fact she'd never acted before.
0:23:06 > 0:23:08How can you do this, Hitch,
0:23:08 > 0:23:12put somebody totally unknown who's never acted before -
0:23:12 > 0:23:17how can you put this woman into this film that you're going to do?
0:23:17 > 0:23:19It's going to be a major motion picture.
0:23:19 > 0:23:24You know, and Hitch gave me the assurance that I could do it.
0:23:24 > 0:23:28And Hitch was not only my director, he was my drama coach.
0:23:28 > 0:23:30You know, I was a very lucky lady.
0:23:34 > 0:23:35SHE GASPS
0:23:35 > 0:23:38SQUAWKING
0:23:38 > 0:23:40SHE WHIMPERS
0:23:44 > 0:23:46SHE SCREAMS
0:23:47 > 0:23:48First of all,
0:23:48 > 0:23:52how did you get that effect of being attacked by the birds?
0:23:52 > 0:23:54- I mean, were you actually pecked, or what?- Indeed I was.
0:23:54 > 0:23:56You know, it took five days to do that scene.
0:23:56 > 0:23:59I started on a Monday morning, and it was really...
0:23:59 > 0:24:02I don't know whether Hitchcock did this deliberately, but he...
0:24:02 > 0:24:05We always planned on using mechanical birds,
0:24:05 > 0:24:07and the morning that we started this,
0:24:07 > 0:24:09I was in my dressing room on the set
0:24:09 > 0:24:13and the assistant director came in and, you know, we were good pals,
0:24:13 > 0:24:15and he couldn't look at me.
0:24:15 > 0:24:18And he was looking at the floor and at the walls and the ceiling.
0:24:18 > 0:24:20I said, "What's the matter with you, Jim?" And he said,
0:24:20 > 0:24:23"Um...we, um...
0:24:23 > 0:24:26"We can't use the mechanical birds. They don't work." And he split.
0:24:26 > 0:24:28You know, I went, "What?!"
0:24:28 > 0:24:31Well, it turns out that they had five prop men
0:24:31 > 0:24:35with great, huge cartons of ravens and seagulls
0:24:35 > 0:24:37and all those good guys,
0:24:37 > 0:24:40and which they alternately hurled at me for five days.
0:24:40 > 0:24:43- Really?- Yes.- Charming.
0:24:43 > 0:24:46Oh, by the end of it, by the end of the Friday afternoon,
0:24:46 > 0:24:49they had me on the floor with little bits of elastic coming through
0:24:49 > 0:24:53the holes in the dress that the wardrobe lady had put in there,
0:24:53 > 0:24:58with ravens and seagulls just sort of loosely tied
0:24:58 > 0:25:00so they'd stay on my body.
0:25:00 > 0:25:03LAUGHTER Cos they don't take direction well.
0:25:03 > 0:25:07- No, indeed.- And by the end of that day, one of them was sitting here,
0:25:07 > 0:25:10and he decided to sit here, and just a little scratch in my eye,
0:25:10 > 0:25:12and I said, "That's enough."
0:25:12 > 0:25:15And I threw them all off and sat in the middle of the set crying.
0:25:15 > 0:25:18But the question I really wanted to ask you, as well,
0:25:18 > 0:25:20was why did you go upstairs in the first place?
0:25:20 > 0:25:22- Cos that's one of my favourite moments. - LAUGHTER
0:25:22 > 0:25:26- You're downstairs, and you know those birds are up there, and you hear this "prrr".- I know.
0:25:26 > 0:25:29- And you go up - why do you go up? - Do you know something? I said the same thing.
0:25:29 > 0:25:32I'm not really a method actress, you know,
0:25:32 > 0:25:35but a lot of times you need motivation.
0:25:35 > 0:25:37Because I said, "Hitch, why am I doing this?
0:25:37 > 0:25:40"I mean, she's heard these birds, they've been all over the place,
0:25:40 > 0:25:44"causing all kinds of terror. Why is she going up there?" And he said,
0:25:44 > 0:25:47IN A DEEP VOICE: "Because I tell you to."
0:25:47 > 0:25:50- LAUGHTER OK, that's enough motivation. - Good a reason as any.
0:25:51 > 0:25:56Tippi Hedren claimed that "because I tell you to"
0:25:56 > 0:25:59became the basis of her relationship with Hitchcock,
0:25:59 > 0:26:02which carried on with the second film he cast her in,
0:26:02 > 0:26:05the psychological thriller Marnie.
0:26:05 > 0:26:09Sean Connery was Hedren's co-star in the film,
0:26:09 > 0:26:13which became controversial for one particular scene.
0:26:13 > 0:26:16From what I've read, most people accepted Hitchcock roles
0:26:16 > 0:26:18without having read the script.
0:26:18 > 0:26:20Is that the case? And how was it different for you?
0:26:20 > 0:26:23Well, because I was very curious as to what it was,
0:26:23 > 0:26:25because at the time of offering to me,
0:26:25 > 0:26:29Grace Kelly was supposed to be playing the other part.
0:26:29 > 0:26:32- The Tippi Hedren part? - Yes, and so I said,
0:26:32 > 0:26:35"Well, I would certainly like to read it." Not unusual,
0:26:35 > 0:26:37I thought, because I would equally say,
0:26:37 > 0:26:39"I don't think I'm right for it,"
0:26:39 > 0:26:42- or, "This is more American than I could ever be."- Yes.
0:26:42 > 0:26:44But I liked it,
0:26:44 > 0:26:47and eventually I had a terrific time with him.
0:26:47 > 0:26:50Were you worried that it was a controversial part?
0:26:50 > 0:26:52Because he's very sexually aggressive,
0:26:52 > 0:26:54there's a rape scene that we're about to watch.
0:26:54 > 0:26:56Oh, no. No, not at all.
0:26:56 > 0:27:01I mean, I don't think I was that concerned
0:27:01 > 0:27:05- about these kind of issues at all.- Yes.
0:27:05 > 0:27:09And his preparation for movie-making was second to none, in terms of
0:27:09 > 0:27:13what he wanted in the script and he had visualised and everything.
0:27:13 > 0:27:16- And I enjoyed enormously working with him.- OK.
0:27:16 > 0:27:18Let's have a look at the scene.
0:28:30 > 0:28:34There were a lot of Hitchcocks involved with Mr Hitchcock.
0:28:34 > 0:28:37He used to think of himself as being a very simple man -
0:28:37 > 0:28:39he was extremely complicated.
0:28:39 > 0:28:44He was kind of con... TRYING to control
0:28:44 > 0:28:48who I saw, what I...you know, all of those kinds of things.
0:28:48 > 0:28:51So that became a very, very difficult time for me.
0:28:53 > 0:28:58I think he became obsessed with this character named Tippi Hedren.
0:28:58 > 0:29:02He felt that he had created Tippi Hedren.
0:29:04 > 0:29:06He would not take his eyes off of me.
0:29:06 > 0:29:08He may be talking to somebody over here,
0:29:08 > 0:29:10but he was watching me all the time.
0:29:10 > 0:29:12And it became...
0:29:12 > 0:29:15It became very difficult.
0:29:15 > 0:29:18Mrs Hitchcock came to me a number of times and said,
0:29:18 > 0:29:22"I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry you have to go through this,
0:29:22 > 0:29:24"or that you're going through this."
0:29:24 > 0:29:29So she... You know, it was apparent to her.
0:29:31 > 0:29:33During the filming of Marnie,
0:29:33 > 0:29:36everything sort of went fine,
0:29:36 > 0:29:40until probably the last quarter of the shoot.
0:29:40 > 0:29:45It was a five month shoot, and it eventually got to the point
0:29:45 > 0:29:49where I couldn't stand the control.
0:29:49 > 0:29:52Or the trying to control.
0:29:52 > 0:29:56And I resented it so highly that I finally told him
0:29:56 > 0:30:00that I couldn't bear it any more,
0:30:00 > 0:30:04demands were being put onto me that I couldn't acquiesce to,
0:30:04 > 0:30:06and I said, "I need to get out."
0:30:06 > 0:30:11And he told me that I really couldn't,
0:30:11 > 0:30:15that I... You know, I had my parents to worry about, my daughter.
0:30:15 > 0:30:18I said, "It doesn't matter. I can't live this way."
0:30:18 > 0:30:21And he literally said, "I'll ruin your career."
0:30:21 > 0:30:23He kept me under contract,
0:30:23 > 0:30:27he paid me my little salary every week
0:30:27 > 0:30:30for a couple of years. And by that time,
0:30:30 > 0:30:35all of the people who did want to use me in films -
0:30:35 > 0:30:39because after Marnie, you know, I was hot.
0:30:41 > 0:30:44And was just told I wasn't available.
0:30:48 > 0:30:51There was never a question of us working together again.
0:30:51 > 0:30:53It was just a very definite cut-off.
0:30:54 > 0:30:56And it was by me.
0:30:57 > 0:31:00I am totally responsible for it.
0:31:00 > 0:31:02No, I'm not. He is.
0:31:05 > 0:31:09Friends of Hitchcock disputed Tippi Hedren's version of events,
0:31:09 > 0:31:12saying they didn't recognise the man she described.
0:31:12 > 0:31:15Kim Novak was one of several actresses
0:31:15 > 0:31:19who said Hedren's experiences did not match her own.
0:31:19 > 0:31:23But others who worked on Marnie agree with Hedren's claim
0:31:23 > 0:31:26that Hitchcock became obsessed with her.
0:31:26 > 0:31:30Whatever the truth, the relationship has come to be seen
0:31:30 > 0:31:35as the most troubling and complicated of Hitchcock's career,
0:31:35 > 0:31:40and in 2012, even became the subject of a film,
0:31:40 > 0:31:43entitled The Girl.
0:31:45 > 0:31:49Why do you use stars at all? I mean, Hitchcock is a star.
0:31:49 > 0:31:51I mean, can't you do without them?
0:31:51 > 0:31:53Yes, I can, but sometimes in front office, you know,
0:31:53 > 0:31:57they like to have more than one star in the picture.
0:31:57 > 0:32:01They'd like to, perhaps you could say, treble their odds.
0:32:01 > 0:32:05Of course, someone who never gave Hitchcock any trouble
0:32:05 > 0:32:09was the person who appeared in more of his films than anyone else.
0:32:09 > 0:32:12With all those famous cameos, it is, of course,
0:32:12 > 0:32:17the master of suspense himself - Alfred Hitchcock.