0:00:15 > 0:00:19Throughout the 1940s, '50s and '60s,
0:00:19 > 0:00:22film-goers were treated to performances
0:00:22 > 0:00:27from some of the most popular actresses ever to work in Hollywood.
0:00:27 > 0:00:31Whether glamorous, powerful or supposedly girl-next-door,
0:00:31 > 0:00:34they made their mark on audiences and the box-office.
0:00:34 > 0:00:38Here we're looking at some notable names interviewed over the years
0:00:38 > 0:00:42by the BBC, and we're starting with one of cinema's most fascinating
0:00:42 > 0:00:46and complex figures - Joan Crawford.
0:00:46 > 0:00:51At one stage in her career they called her the Queen of Hollywood.
0:00:51 > 0:00:56At another, she was labelled "box office poison".
0:00:56 > 0:01:00She won an Oscar in 1946 for Mildred Pierce,
0:01:00 > 0:01:02married four times,
0:01:02 > 0:01:04adopted five children
0:01:04 > 0:01:07and was accused by two of them of only doing so
0:01:07 > 0:01:09to generate good publicity.
0:01:09 > 0:01:13It's been said that Joan's whole life was a performance,
0:01:13 > 0:01:15and there's certainly a lot of performing on display
0:01:15 > 0:01:17in our two opening clips,
0:01:17 > 0:01:21both from 1956, when she was in England making the film
0:01:21 > 0:01:23The Story Of Esther Costello.
0:01:23 > 0:01:25In this first one,
0:01:25 > 0:01:30just watch how Joan interacts with her young co-star Heather Sears,
0:01:30 > 0:01:33after the initial conversation with interviewer Peter Haigh.
0:01:33 > 0:01:35It's a proud moment for Picture Parade
0:01:35 > 0:01:38because Joan Crawford has joined us tonight to tell us
0:01:38 > 0:01:41a little about herself, to talk to about her new picture
0:01:41 > 0:01:43and I think I should tell you it's her first appearance
0:01:43 > 0:01:45on television ever.
0:01:45 > 0:01:48- Welcome, Joan.- Hi, Peter. How are you?- Not frightened, are you?
0:01:48 > 0:01:50- Yes, I'm scared.- Really?- Yes.
0:01:50 > 0:01:53Joan, there are thousands of things I want to ask you and I don't
0:01:53 > 0:01:56quite know where to start but first of all, I think let's take glamour.
0:01:56 > 0:02:00Now, will you tell me what, A, is your recipe for it?
0:02:00 > 0:02:01Just live.
0:02:01 > 0:02:03- Just live?- Yes.- Simple as that.
0:02:03 > 0:02:07Live with a lovely family,
0:02:07 > 0:02:11raising children. I don't mean live gloriously
0:02:11 > 0:02:14- and make every day the Fourth of July.- Mm-hm.
0:02:14 > 0:02:17- I mean, just live. - A perfectly ordinary life.
0:02:17 > 0:02:20Could we talk very quickly, Joan, about Esther Costello?
0:02:20 > 0:02:23- Yes.- I mean, what is the story of this picture?
0:02:24 > 0:02:29This is a story of a woman who goes back to Ireland.
0:02:29 > 0:02:31She left at six years of age,
0:02:31 > 0:02:35she goes back because she's a lonely woman
0:02:35 > 0:02:39and this is a story of many, many women in the world.
0:02:39 > 0:02:42It doesn't have to be England, America,
0:02:42 > 0:02:45Ireland, Scotland, it doesn't matter.
0:02:47 > 0:02:49And I find...
0:02:50 > 0:02:52You see I'm not playing Esther Costello.
0:02:52 > 0:02:54- I was going to ask you that, you're not playing it?- No.
0:02:54 > 0:02:56Who is playing the part?
0:02:56 > 0:03:01Today, we chose the most lovely, beautiful child in the whole world.
0:03:01 > 0:03:05- Now, who is that? - Except my own four children.- Yes?
0:03:05 > 0:03:07- Who is she?- Miss Heather Sears.
0:03:12 > 0:03:14Heather Sears, meet our viewers
0:03:14 > 0:03:16and congratulations on all our behalves
0:03:16 > 0:03:18on getting this rather wonderful part.
0:03:18 > 0:03:22- Thank you very much.- What do you have to do in the film?
0:03:22 > 0:03:25Well, I should say first of all I have to be a great pantomimist.
0:03:25 > 0:03:28What exactly is that now?
0:03:28 > 0:03:31You've got to use your fingers a lot to...?
0:03:31 > 0:03:33Yes, I have to, erm...
0:03:34 > 0:03:36I have to...
0:03:36 > 0:03:39- Sort of talk...- ..communicate... - Yes.- ..with my hands.
0:03:39 > 0:03:42- And you aren't allowed to talk. - And with your eyes.
0:03:42 > 0:03:44And with my eyes, but not my voice
0:03:44 > 0:03:47- because Esther Costello is a blind mute.- My goodness me.
0:03:47 > 0:03:50So, you've really got a lot of work to put in between you both,
0:03:50 > 0:03:53- haven't you?- Yes.- Yes, we have. - We do. We'll work together well.
0:03:53 > 0:03:56- I hope so. I'm sure we will. - How are you both getting on?
0:03:56 > 0:03:58Before you go, how are you both getting on with, you know,
0:03:58 > 0:04:01the film so far? You haven't actually started, have you?
0:04:01 > 0:04:05- No, but we will.- In a few days' time.- Yes.- Bless you both.
0:04:05 > 0:04:06Thank you so much. Before you go,
0:04:06 > 0:04:09I just want one little thing before you do leave.
0:04:09 > 0:04:11Thank you very much indeed.
0:04:12 > 0:04:14With our compliments, Joan Crawford,
0:04:14 > 0:04:17- and thank you very much for joining us.- Thank you.
0:04:17 > 0:04:19- And, Heather, likewise. - Thank you very much.
0:04:19 > 0:04:21Good luck to you both in the picture
0:04:21 > 0:04:23and thank you for joining us on Picture Parade tonight.
0:04:23 > 0:04:25- Good luck.- Thank you.
0:04:25 > 0:04:27You know you're going to be great.
0:04:27 > 0:04:29Thank you.
0:04:31 > 0:04:34A few months after that encounter,
0:04:34 > 0:04:36Crawford was back at the BBC,
0:04:36 > 0:04:40talking to another interviewer who seems awed by her stardom,
0:04:40 > 0:04:43the writer Wolf Mankiewicz.
0:04:43 > 0:04:45Miss Crawford...
0:04:45 > 0:04:48- Joan, since I've seen so much of you...- Please, Wolf.
0:04:48 > 0:04:51..in the few weeks that you've been in England.
0:04:51 > 0:04:54- Esther Costello is your 74th picture.- I'm afraid it is.
0:04:54 > 0:04:56That's a terrible amount of pictures. An awful lot.
0:04:56 > 0:04:59- Are you bored? - A frightful lot of good pictures.
0:04:59 > 0:05:03But it is a large number of pictures for any star to make
0:05:03 > 0:05:06because it indicates to me that you've survived at least
0:05:06 > 0:05:10half a century of directors, any number of co-stars,
0:05:10 > 0:05:11any number of leading men.
0:05:11 > 0:05:14They're all still living and working.
0:05:14 > 0:05:17But perhaps not doing quite so well as they were formerly?
0:05:17 > 0:05:18Oh, I don't know.
0:05:18 > 0:05:22You know Rossano Brazzi was in this film and he's done 87 films.
0:05:22 > 0:05:25- Did you know that?- Yes, 80 of which we haven't seen over here.
0:05:25 > 0:05:26Oh, that's not very nice.
0:05:26 > 0:05:28No, my point is this, my point is this, Joan,
0:05:28 > 0:05:32that here you are making your 74th international picture,
0:05:32 > 0:05:34a picture that will be seen by millions of people
0:05:34 > 0:05:37all over the world, many of the people that you've worked with,
0:05:37 > 0:05:39talented as they have been, have not survived.
0:05:40 > 0:05:43It's interesting, I think, to try and consider why you have,
0:05:43 > 0:05:45what is it you have, what is the quality that you have
0:05:45 > 0:05:49for the public that makes it go on wanting to see your pictures.
0:05:49 > 0:05:52Well, first of all I'm stage-struck and I think they all know that.
0:05:52 > 0:05:57Secondly, I try to get a film that has audience identification.
0:05:57 > 0:05:59Let me ask you something very personal.
0:05:59 > 0:06:02What were the strains and the tensions and the taxation
0:06:02 > 0:06:05and the impossible hours,
0:06:05 > 0:06:07what makes a star like yourself?
0:06:07 > 0:06:10And there is only one like yourself who's made now
0:06:10 > 0:06:12a 74th international film.
0:06:12 > 0:06:15What makes a star want to go on?
0:06:15 > 0:06:17I mean, surely the danger of having a success
0:06:17 > 0:06:19and the difficulty of following it,
0:06:19 > 0:06:24the endless enmity that surrounds success in our business...
0:06:24 > 0:06:26Is this worth going on with? Do you know what I mean?
0:06:26 > 0:06:28Oh, yes indeed, every minute of it.
0:06:28 > 0:06:31And you know, I find that when I'm not working
0:06:31 > 0:06:34and I don't have to get up at that ungodly hour in the morning
0:06:34 > 0:06:39at quarter to five, I get very lazy.
0:06:39 > 0:06:41- I really do.- And bored?
0:06:41 > 0:06:44Well, no, restless.
0:06:44 > 0:06:49Joan, I hear a rumour around that you're going to retire after this picture.
0:06:49 > 0:06:51Are you kidding? Who, me?
0:06:51 > 0:06:53Never.
0:06:53 > 0:06:57True to her word, Joan Crawford kept working throughout the 1960s.
0:06:57 > 0:06:59Her biggest hit of the period
0:06:59 > 0:07:03being the 1962 classic psychological thriller,
0:07:03 > 0:07:05Whatever Happened To Baby Jane.
0:07:05 > 0:07:07She talks about that film
0:07:07 > 0:07:11and her life in this interview with Philip Jenkinson.
0:07:11 > 0:07:15How easily or difficult do you find the burden of being a star?
0:07:17 > 0:07:22Sometimes it's easy to get there but it's very difficult to stay there.
0:07:22 > 0:07:25And if you call me durable like all the English people do,
0:07:25 > 0:07:28I'll leave the studio.
0:07:28 > 0:07:31Do you find it sort of difficult, as it were,
0:07:31 > 0:07:33maintaining the star exterior
0:07:33 > 0:07:37when perhaps you're tired or you're a bit depressed or...?
0:07:37 > 0:07:43No, I think my training in pictures has been so great.
0:07:43 > 0:07:46And my growing up in front of a camera...
0:07:47 > 0:07:51Well, when you're in your teens and you grow up with an industry
0:07:51 > 0:07:53and you grow with it, which I hope I've done,
0:07:53 > 0:07:57I think the discipline takes care of all that.
0:07:57 > 0:08:00You see pictures have given me all the education I've ever had,
0:08:00 > 0:08:03since I never went beyond the fifth grade.
0:08:04 > 0:08:07No formal education whatsoever
0:08:07 > 0:08:08and I used to have to read scripts
0:08:08 > 0:08:10and then look up the words in the dictionary,
0:08:10 > 0:08:12how to pronounce them and what they meant
0:08:12 > 0:08:15before I could learn the lines
0:08:15 > 0:08:16and that's good, too.
0:08:17 > 0:08:21A short while ago, you gave quite a long press conference and I wondered
0:08:21 > 0:08:26does sometimes facing prying or unfair questions bother you?
0:08:26 > 0:08:32It's become now rather comic because everyone in England says,
0:08:32 > 0:08:36"How old are you?" And, "How much money do you have?"
0:08:36 > 0:08:38And, "How many times have you been married?"
0:08:38 > 0:08:40So I expect it and I'm ready for it.
0:08:40 > 0:08:44I know a lot of people think very few things were before my time.
0:08:44 > 0:08:47I'm sure you must get very bored by the constant fiction
0:08:47 > 0:08:50that you and Bette Davis are positively daggers drawn.
0:08:50 > 0:08:52She'd kill you if she heard you say "Bet".
0:08:52 > 0:08:55She's a fascinating actress, Bette Davis.
0:08:56 > 0:08:58I've never had time to be friends with her
0:08:58 > 0:09:00because we only did the one picture.
0:09:00 > 0:09:02Ha!
0:09:02 > 0:09:06You are disgusting. After all I've done for you, you spy on me.
0:09:06 > 0:09:10- When all I'm trying to do is help. - Who are you trying to help, Blanche?
0:09:10 > 0:09:12What are you planning to do with me when you've sold the house?
0:09:12 > 0:09:14What do you have in mind -
0:09:14 > 0:09:17some nice little place where they could look after me?
0:09:21 > 0:09:23One other sequence I must ask you about,
0:09:23 > 0:09:27which is the dead rat sequence in Baby Jane which, I think,
0:09:27 > 0:09:29perhaps as much, if not more than Psycho,
0:09:29 > 0:09:31really frightened me half to death.
0:09:31 > 0:09:36How scared were you on that moment when you lifted up the terrine cover?
0:09:36 > 0:09:38More frightened than you, really
0:09:38 > 0:09:42because I refused to work with anything but an empty plate.
0:09:42 > 0:09:45And when I knew the cameras were ready,
0:09:45 > 0:09:47then I said, "You may bring it on."
0:09:47 > 0:09:50And something went wrong technically with the camera
0:09:50 > 0:09:54and I said, "Don't take the lid off. Leave it. Just take it away."
0:09:54 > 0:09:58And I still kept the emotion ready for it
0:09:58 > 0:10:01and when the technical things were fixed on the camera
0:10:01 > 0:10:05and the lights, then we went in and I was still ready and away we went.
0:10:05 > 0:10:07Take one.
0:10:07 > 0:10:09You know we've got rats in the cellar?
0:10:41 > 0:10:45I think if you rehearse too much with the actual...
0:10:48 > 0:10:49..rodent.
0:10:49 > 0:10:53I almost said animal, it looked so big.
0:10:53 > 0:10:55But it is a rodent, I believe, the rat.
0:10:55 > 0:10:59- And, of course, the dead bird, too. - Yes.- Just awful.
0:11:08 > 0:11:09No!
0:11:09 > 0:11:11It's wonderful to do those scenes.
0:11:11 > 0:11:15You want to bring the audience in with you, so close to you,
0:11:15 > 0:11:19you want to put them in your lap, in the palm of your hand.
0:11:19 > 0:11:21And it's very exciting when you go to the theatre
0:11:21 > 0:11:24and found that you've done it in a couple of scenes.
0:11:24 > 0:11:27I worked in the wheelchair and the sets on all weekends
0:11:27 > 0:11:32because I had an inch on either side and with your hands there,
0:11:32 > 0:11:36on the wheelchair, if they were too far out
0:11:36 > 0:11:39I had very sore knuckles, the two, three days I rehearsed.
0:11:39 > 0:11:42As a matter of fact, I took the wheelchair home with me at nights
0:11:42 > 0:11:45to learn how to get through doors.
0:11:45 > 0:11:48Although film-making might've been conveyor-belted,
0:11:48 > 0:11:50although there's some truth in the charge
0:11:50 > 0:11:53that artists were manufactured...
0:11:53 > 0:11:57- You manufacture toys, you don't manufacture stars.- Hm.
0:11:57 > 0:11:59You can't turn them out.
0:11:59 > 0:12:01Nowadays you see them,
0:12:01 > 0:12:03they're all out of the same cookie cutter, you know.
0:12:05 > 0:12:08- I still think we should go back to romantic pictures.- Mm.
0:12:10 > 0:12:12The world is so angry.
0:12:12 > 0:12:16I'm no Cinderella, but by golly, the world is so angry
0:12:16 > 0:12:19that if we could get romantic pictures back again
0:12:19 > 0:12:21and no angry young men,
0:12:21 > 0:12:25and have the young men have their hair cut
0:12:25 > 0:12:29and the young ladies let it grow,
0:12:29 > 0:12:30I think we'd get back to
0:12:30 > 0:12:34a nice human relationship again throughout the world.
0:12:34 > 0:12:35It seems to me now that films are made
0:12:35 > 0:12:38at almost a sort of committee level. There are so many vested interests.
0:12:38 > 0:12:41There's such a lot of money to be made or lost
0:12:41 > 0:12:43and there are so many people who want to have their little bit,
0:12:43 > 0:12:46who want to have their little say, it seems to me that this is a
0:12:46 > 0:12:48sort of diluting process.
0:12:48 > 0:12:51So much money to be made or lost, you just said.
0:12:52 > 0:12:55So much talent to be made or lost, too.
0:12:58 > 0:13:04Famously, Joan Crawford and her Baby Jane co-star Bette Davis
0:13:04 > 0:13:06genuinely hated each other.
0:13:06 > 0:13:08Bette once saying of Joan,
0:13:08 > 0:13:13"She's slept with every male star at MGM, except Lassie."
0:13:14 > 0:13:17And while Crawford was undeniably a great star,
0:13:17 > 0:13:23Bette Davis was one of THE great actresses of Hollywood's Golden age.
0:13:23 > 0:13:26A double-Oscar winner with a reputation for toughness,
0:13:26 > 0:13:30who had no trouble doing battle with movie studio bosses.
0:13:30 > 0:13:33- They even suggested changing your name, didn't they?- Oh, yes.
0:13:33 > 0:13:35They wanted to call me Betina Dawes.
0:13:35 > 0:13:37LAUGHTER
0:13:42 > 0:13:47And to be a little vulgar in this illustrious group, I said,
0:13:47 > 0:13:51"I refuse to be called 'between the drawers' all my life."
0:13:51 > 0:13:53APPLAUSE
0:13:53 > 0:13:56Which I would've. No question.
0:13:56 > 0:13:59It's very well you joking about it now, but, of course,
0:13:59 > 0:14:03- at the time for a young... - Heartbreak.- It must've been awful.
0:14:03 > 0:14:04It was absolutely heartbreak.
0:14:04 > 0:14:07Yes, I remember sitting in the outer office and Mr Laemmle was talking
0:14:07 > 0:14:10to somebody and he was talking about me, not knowing I was there,
0:14:10 > 0:14:13and he said, "Yes, she's got as much sex appeal as Slim Summerville."
0:14:13 > 0:14:16LAUGHTER
0:14:16 > 0:14:19And you see you're so right to...
0:14:19 > 0:14:21Oh, I was defeated.
0:14:21 > 0:14:23And, for instance, they would say,
0:14:23 > 0:14:25"Who wants to get her at the end of the picture?"
0:14:25 > 0:14:27LAUGHTER
0:14:27 > 0:14:29- And this does... - APPLAUSE
0:14:29 > 0:14:31True!
0:14:31 > 0:14:35And this really does catastrophic things to your ego
0:14:35 > 0:14:39and I didn't have a lot of ego, and never have had lots anyway,
0:14:39 > 0:14:41which is a big misnomer about actors,
0:14:41 > 0:14:43we have very little ego, basically, you know.
0:14:43 > 0:14:46So how did you salvage what was left of your confidence?
0:14:46 > 0:14:48It all changed...
0:14:48 > 0:14:52At least I could hold my head high in a film of his
0:14:52 > 0:14:54which was an important film and then I had five or six more years,
0:14:54 > 0:14:58you know, when I came to England and fought the whole thing.
0:14:58 > 0:15:00But you just had to hang on.
0:15:00 > 0:15:04And Ruthie, my mother, was, you know,
0:15:04 > 0:15:05so cute when all the years went by
0:15:05 > 0:15:08and these awful things were said about you and she'd always say,
0:15:08 > 0:15:11"It's the best fruit the birds pick at."
0:15:11 > 0:15:14And I thought it was so sweet. You know, she said, "Just remember."
0:15:14 > 0:15:17Because it was heartbreaking, of course it was.
0:15:17 > 0:15:18You said at the time,
0:15:18 > 0:15:21"I'd have given anything to look like Katie Hepburn
0:15:21 > 0:15:22"and I still would."
0:15:22 > 0:15:24I adore her face, adore her face.
0:15:24 > 0:15:26Yes, it was so interesting.
0:15:26 > 0:15:29Mine was just kind of round.
0:15:29 > 0:15:31I always hated my face.
0:15:31 > 0:15:33Warner Brothers must've thought you were,
0:15:33 > 0:15:37although one of their top stars, a very difficult property indeed.
0:15:37 > 0:15:40No, I don't think so. I was...
0:15:40 > 0:15:42We weren't...
0:15:42 > 0:15:46Warners was a marvellous workmanlike studio, as opposed to Metro.
0:15:46 > 0:15:50Metro was really a beautiful, glamour place.
0:15:50 > 0:15:54There was no red carpet for any actor at Warners. Absolutely not.
0:15:54 > 0:15:56We were not allowed this.
0:15:56 > 0:16:00And we all just worked very, very hard and I wouldn't, you know,
0:16:00 > 0:16:04those 18 years were my life and they were very, very good to me.
0:16:04 > 0:16:07And I regret today that the young people don't have contracts
0:16:07 > 0:16:12to work under because the contract gives you a continuity,
0:16:12 > 0:16:17you see, that's what I mean by longevity. Nobody could escape me.
0:16:17 > 0:16:21You know, you made eight or ten pictures a year. You really did.
0:16:21 > 0:16:25And then also the Warner product was the first product
0:16:25 > 0:16:26sold for television.
0:16:26 > 0:16:31And this is many, many years ago now. 65 films of which were mine.
0:16:31 > 0:16:35So, I just sort of kept on going, you know, again longevity.
0:16:35 > 0:16:37But I was fortunate there, too.
0:16:37 > 0:16:40Is it true that you were called the fourth Warner Brother?
0:16:40 > 0:16:41By Bob Hope, yes. Yes.
0:16:41 > 0:16:44SHE LAUGHS
0:16:44 > 0:16:46Oh, absolutely, absolutely adorable.
0:16:46 > 0:16:50We had this marvellous Warner employees' party every year
0:16:50 > 0:16:52and he MC'd it this particular year.
0:16:52 > 0:16:55He got up and introduced Miss Bette Davis, the fourth Warner Brother.
0:16:55 > 0:16:57Which I thought was lovely.
0:16:57 > 0:16:59That was the film where you first worked with Olivia de Havilland,
0:16:59 > 0:17:02- wasn't it?- She and I were there together for many, many years.
0:17:02 > 0:17:05- She's my great, great friend.- She's become a great friend of yours now.
0:17:05 > 0:17:07She's always been a great friend of mine.
0:17:07 > 0:17:09Is it difficult for stars to be close friends?
0:17:09 > 0:17:12Well, actors as a group are not my passion.
0:17:12 > 0:17:14LAUGHTER
0:17:14 > 0:17:16- Socially.- What about one by one? - Socially.
0:17:16 > 0:17:20No, I always socially love writers and directors,
0:17:20 > 0:17:22much more interesting.
0:17:22 > 0:17:26A group of actors together can be rather tiresome.
0:17:26 > 0:17:28Whose rushes were what and all this, you know.
0:17:31 > 0:17:35Someone who Bette Davis apparently didn't find tiresome
0:17:35 > 0:17:37was the actress Debbie Reynolds -
0:17:37 > 0:17:41one of the most popular stars of the '50s, thanks to Singin' In The Rain.
0:17:41 > 0:17:46In 1956, Reynolds appeared in a film called The Catered Affair,
0:17:46 > 0:17:51appearing alongside - and getting some help - from Bette.
0:17:51 > 0:17:53You learn from the best.
0:17:53 > 0:17:56- Bette Davis taught me wonderful things...- Oh, did she?
0:17:56 > 0:17:57..when I worked with her.
0:17:57 > 0:18:01We worked in a film called Catered Affair, it was a dramatic film.
0:18:01 > 0:18:05And I had never known to rehearse that much just cooking in a scene.
0:18:05 > 0:18:07I don't know, it looks so easy, doesn't it,
0:18:07 > 0:18:09that you're making a film and you're cooking? It looks...
0:18:09 > 0:18:11Well, she rehearsed this scene three days.
0:18:11 > 0:18:14We cooked the fish, we mashed the potatoes,
0:18:14 > 0:18:17we made the vegetables, we set the table, all to dialogue.
0:18:17 > 0:18:19So that every time that you said a line, it was...
0:18:19 > 0:18:23You knew exactly when you put the pot down so you matched every time.
0:18:23 > 0:18:25- MIMICS BETTE DAVIS: - So she taught me that.
0:18:25 > 0:18:29She'd say, "Now, Debbie, bring the pot over here."
0:18:30 > 0:18:32- NORMALLY:- I'd said, "Yes."
0:18:32 > 0:18:36- MIMICS BETTE DAVIS:- "Now, mash the potatoes and put them in the pan.
0:18:37 > 0:18:42"Bring me the water. Yes. No, that's wrong, dear. Do it again."
0:18:43 > 0:18:45- NORMALLY:- So this went on, you know, for that.
0:18:45 > 0:18:50So every time you work with a great talent, you learn a lot.
0:18:50 > 0:18:52- Now, you were Sis.- Sis.
0:18:52 > 0:18:54What's your real name?
0:18:54 > 0:18:55- IN SOUTHERN ACCENT:- My name is Mary Frances
0:18:55 > 0:18:57cos originally I'm from Texas
0:18:57 > 0:18:59and if you're from Texas, everybody's called
0:18:59 > 0:19:04Elizabeth, Sue, Louelle and Mary Frances, something like that.
0:19:04 > 0:19:09- And so how did you get Debbie? How did Debbie come up?- Well, Debbie.
0:19:09 > 0:19:10I was Mary Frances.
0:19:10 > 0:19:15Now, Mr Warner, Jack Warner of course, he's very strong,
0:19:15 > 0:19:18he's in charge, you know, the heads of the studios were Louis B Mayer
0:19:18 > 0:19:21and the Zanucks and all those famous people.
0:19:21 > 0:19:23So, he didn't like Mary, he said it was too simple.
0:19:23 > 0:19:28Frances was boring and Mary Frances was really awful so he said,
0:19:28 > 0:19:31"You're going to be called Debbie Morgan
0:19:31 > 0:19:35"because I had a dog named Debbie and Dennis Morgan is a big star."
0:19:35 > 0:19:37So I said, "I don't think so.
0:19:37 > 0:19:40"I'm not going to be Debbie Morgan, I don't know who that is.
0:19:40 > 0:19:42"That's not me. I'm Mary Frances Reynolds."
0:19:42 > 0:19:44So he said, "Well, you'll have to Debbie."
0:19:44 > 0:19:45I wouldn't change it. I said,
0:19:45 > 0:19:48"Did you ever change your name from your father's name?"
0:19:48 > 0:19:51And, of course, he had so it didn't do me much good.
0:19:51 > 0:19:53LAUGHTER
0:19:53 > 0:19:56Cos Warner evidently was Warnerstein, Warnerberg
0:19:56 > 0:19:57or, I don't know.
0:19:57 > 0:20:00So, anyway, I had to change my name to Debbie
0:20:00 > 0:20:03but I got to keep Reynolds but now I'm very used to it.
0:20:03 > 0:20:06In fact, I'm the first Debbie that ever was
0:20:06 > 0:20:09and there are more Debbies now named after me
0:20:09 > 0:20:13so it's nice to be the oldest and maybe the first Debbie ever.
0:20:13 > 0:20:17When you were MGM, you did ballet classes and all
0:20:17 > 0:20:21because they had a kind of core of stars that they were bringing up,
0:20:21 > 0:20:25people like Cyd Charisse and Zsa Zsa Gabor and Grace Kelly.
0:20:25 > 0:20:29What extraordinary company. Were you overawed to be in that company?
0:20:29 > 0:20:33Well, you see, MGM had the greatest stars. I mean, everybody was there.
0:20:33 > 0:20:36You had Greer Garson and June Allyson and Ann Miller
0:20:36 > 0:20:39and Jane Powell and Kathryn Grayson.
0:20:39 > 0:20:41I mean, everybody was there
0:20:41 > 0:20:43and in the morning we had ballet classes
0:20:43 > 0:20:46so Cyd Charisse, of course, had legs this long
0:20:46 > 0:20:48and Vera Ella had long legs,
0:20:48 > 0:20:51Ann Miller had long legs, I was the only little short thing,
0:20:51 > 0:20:55you know, in the class and even Zsa Zsa who can't dance at all...
0:20:55 > 0:20:58- MIMICS ZSA ZSA GABOR:- But anyway, she would come in the class.
0:20:58 > 0:21:00- NORMALLY:- We'd all be dressed normally
0:21:00 > 0:21:02except Zsa Zsa cos she had jewellery everywhere
0:21:02 > 0:21:04and she'd go change her clothes, put on a leotard
0:21:04 > 0:21:08and put her jewellery back on the leotard.
0:21:08 > 0:21:10- MIMICS ZSA ZSA GABOR: - And then she would be...
0:21:10 > 0:21:12"Isn't this a beautiful step, darling?"
0:21:12 > 0:21:14- NORMALLY:- And she'd pick her pearls up and go...
0:21:14 > 0:21:16- MIMICS ZSA ZSA:- Isn't this wonderful?
0:21:16 > 0:21:17LAUGHTER DROWNS SPEECH
0:21:17 > 0:21:20"Did you notice my new ring, darling?"
0:21:20 > 0:21:23- NORMALLY:- The whole class she's talking about, you know,
0:21:23 > 0:21:26the fellow she met and the jewellery that she just got.
0:21:26 > 0:21:30I think she bought it all and just stuck it all over.
0:21:30 > 0:21:33Now, you also met Elizabeth Taylor
0:21:33 > 0:21:35who was to play such an important part in your life.
0:21:35 > 0:21:39Well, we all went to school together because at MGM we were all young
0:21:39 > 0:21:43and they had a schoolhouse so Roddy McDowall was still in school,
0:21:43 > 0:21:46Claude Jarman Junior, Elizabeth and myself.
0:21:46 > 0:21:48- How did you get on with Elizabeth then?- Great.
0:21:48 > 0:21:51She hated school and I wanted to be a gym teacher
0:21:51 > 0:21:54so I was good at school and she was...
0:21:54 > 0:21:59She didn't like it very much so we would peek at each other's papers.
0:21:59 > 0:22:01Tell you the truth.
0:22:01 > 0:22:04She was better at English than I and I was better at math than she.
0:22:04 > 0:22:06So, we would kind of exchange things.
0:22:06 > 0:22:08Well, later on we'll talk about a little bit more...
0:22:08 > 0:22:12- We exchanged husbands later...- Yes, quite.- ..but little did we know.
0:22:12 > 0:22:15She got Eddie, I could've had Richard Burton. Oh, wow!
0:22:17 > 0:22:19Do you feel cheated by that? Do you feel life has cheated you?
0:22:19 > 0:22:22Yes, I do now that I think about. I had never thought about that.
0:22:22 > 0:22:25See what you've brought up now? Now I'm really depressed.
0:22:30 > 0:22:35Another rising star of the '50s was our next subject Natalie Wood.
0:22:35 > 0:22:38She'd started out as a child actress
0:22:38 > 0:22:43and had received three Oscar nominations by the time she was 23.
0:22:43 > 0:22:45The first of these was for Natalie's performance
0:22:45 > 0:22:49in that classic tale of teenage angst, Rebel Without A Cause
0:22:49 > 0:22:54directed by Nicholas Ray and starring James Dean.
0:22:54 > 0:22:55You know when you reached your teens
0:22:55 > 0:22:57- and Rebel Without A Cause came along...- Yes.
0:22:57 > 0:23:00..I mean, were you aware that it was going to be a turning point?
0:23:00 > 0:23:02I mean, did you think, "I've got to get this one
0:23:02 > 0:23:04"because it's going to be a big 'un?"
0:23:04 > 0:23:08Well, I was aware for the first time when I read that script
0:23:08 > 0:23:11that I identified with that part and I desperately wanted to play it
0:23:11 > 0:23:14and I think up until then I had always just acted
0:23:14 > 0:23:17because it was what I was told to do
0:23:17 > 0:23:20and I did as I was told and I was kind of a dutiful child.
0:23:20 > 0:23:22But I became sort of rebellious at that age
0:23:22 > 0:23:25and I really fell in love with that part and wanted to do it very badly.
0:23:25 > 0:23:27And got into a big fight with my parents
0:23:27 > 0:23:29because they didn't want me to do it
0:23:29 > 0:23:32because the picture was sort of against parents and all of that.
0:23:32 > 0:23:34So I threatened to run away from home
0:23:34 > 0:23:36and become an actual juvenile delinquent
0:23:36 > 0:23:39unless I was given the chance to test for the part.
0:23:39 > 0:23:41So, I finally got the part
0:23:41 > 0:23:45and then the studio actually never understood the picture very well
0:23:45 > 0:23:47while we were making it.
0:23:47 > 0:23:49It was not a popular picture at the studio at the time.
0:23:49 > 0:23:51So they didn't expect it to pay off?
0:23:51 > 0:23:53They expected nothing much, they thought Nick Ray was sort of nuts
0:23:53 > 0:23:55and they thought we were all nuts.
0:23:55 > 0:23:58This crazy kid James Dean, East Of Eden hadn't been released yet,
0:23:58 > 0:24:01you know, and they really didn't understand what we were saying
0:24:01 > 0:24:05about the youngsters having those feelings of rebellion
0:24:05 > 0:24:08and I think I told you the story about
0:24:08 > 0:24:10on the very last day of filming,
0:24:10 > 0:24:13we really had three or four more days to go,
0:24:13 > 0:24:16and Jack Warner was just fed up and he said to Nick Ray,
0:24:16 > 0:24:18"Look, the picture ends on Friday, that's all.
0:24:18 > 0:24:20"Whatever you've got in the can, that's it.
0:24:20 > 0:24:22"We'll cut it together and it'll be released.
0:24:22 > 0:24:25"So do whatever you can. Friday, it's over."
0:24:25 > 0:24:28So, suddenly he realised that he didn't ever have a close up
0:24:28 > 0:24:32of James Dean and myself in the love scene in which I say, you know,
0:24:32 > 0:24:34"Jimmy, I love you."
0:24:35 > 0:24:38And we had been shooting the scene where the boy goes over
0:24:38 > 0:24:40the mountain in the chickie run
0:24:40 > 0:24:44so there was kind of earth on the thing and Nick Ray said,
0:24:44 > 0:24:46"OK, I think we just have a chance.
0:24:46 > 0:24:48"Let's get back in the positions of the love scene, you know,
0:24:48 > 0:24:50"that took place in the abandoned house
0:24:50 > 0:24:53"and we'll throw the thing, we'll pretend we're there." Blah, blah.
0:24:53 > 0:24:57And the welfare worker came over and said, "Oh, no. Time's up.
0:24:57 > 0:24:59"Natalie's... She can't work any more today."
0:24:59 > 0:25:01So my mother took this fellow aside
0:25:01 > 0:25:05and she had put an amount of money in an envelope and she said,
0:25:05 > 0:25:08"Well, Natalie has got her schooling in, now.
0:25:08 > 0:25:11- "I mean, she has, hasn't she?" - So they could continue.
0:25:11 > 0:25:14So it was by bribery that the close up got in.
0:25:15 > 0:25:18I love you, Jim.
0:25:18 > 0:25:19I really mean it.
0:25:23 > 0:25:24I mean it.
0:25:42 > 0:25:44Now, you say that East Of Eden had not been released
0:25:44 > 0:25:46so the ballyhoo about James Dean
0:25:46 > 0:25:48presumably hadn't began at that time?
0:25:48 > 0:25:50I mean, did he get the part quite easily?
0:25:50 > 0:25:52Were they quite satisfied that he was the man they wanted?
0:25:52 > 0:25:56He did at that time but right before Rebel Without A Cause,
0:25:56 > 0:25:59I did another television show with Jimmy
0:25:59 > 0:26:01and that was kind of funny because there was an actor
0:26:01 > 0:26:04that was very popular at that time named John Smith.
0:26:04 > 0:26:07- Was he really named John Smith? - Really, I swear to God.
0:26:07 > 0:26:09I mean, that was really his name.
0:26:09 > 0:26:12And so my agent called and said, "Look, there's this very good part",
0:26:12 > 0:26:15it was in Sherwood Anderson story called I'm A Fool.
0:26:15 > 0:26:18And actually, Edward Albert - Eddie Albert - was in it
0:26:18 > 0:26:21and then there needed to be somebody to play him as a young man
0:26:21 > 0:26:24and then somebody like me to play opposite him as the love interest,
0:26:24 > 0:26:27and that was going to be the first time I was ever kissed,
0:26:27 > 0:26:30you know, when I was 15 and all that and I was very excited.
0:26:30 > 0:26:33And the agent said, "Look, they are trying to get John Smith,
0:26:33 > 0:26:36"and we are hoping they get him, but if they can't,
0:26:36 > 0:26:40"there is some kid from New York named James Dean or something,
0:26:40 > 0:26:43"you know, and...well, they might have to use him."
0:26:43 > 0:26:46So the next day, he called, and he said, "Bad news -
0:26:46 > 0:26:48"they couldn't get John Smith, so you've got to do it
0:26:48 > 0:26:49"with this kid, James Dean.
0:26:49 > 0:26:52"But we hear he has done something in New York with Kazan,
0:26:52 > 0:26:54- "so maybe he'll be good." And he was.- One year later...
0:26:54 > 0:26:57Yeah, they'd have given their right teeth to get him.
0:26:57 > 0:27:01How many times have you now been nominated for an Academy Award?
0:27:01 > 0:27:02Oh, um...three times.
0:27:02 > 0:27:04Now, I think that must be quite an experience,
0:27:04 > 0:27:06to go down and sit in the theatre
0:27:06 > 0:27:08when they are tearing opened the envelopes
0:27:08 > 0:27:10and you know your name is on the list
0:27:10 > 0:27:12and everyone is watching you to see what your reactions are,
0:27:12 > 0:27:14and then they read out somebody else's name.
0:27:14 > 0:27:17- Yeah.- And even if it's a friend of yours, you wouldn't be human
0:27:17 > 0:27:19if you didn't hate their guts just at that moment.
0:27:19 > 0:27:21Well, there is that sort of awful, electric moment
0:27:21 > 0:27:23where you suddenly think, "Oh, my God,
0:27:23 > 0:27:25"is it going to be my name?"
0:27:25 > 0:27:29But...once, I think the second time I was nominated
0:27:29 > 0:27:31was for Splendour In The Grass
0:27:31 > 0:27:36and Life magazine had decided that they thought I had a chance to win,
0:27:36 > 0:27:38and they wanted to do a story
0:27:38 > 0:27:42about a day in the life of a person who wins the Oscar.
0:27:42 > 0:27:44So they asked if I would mind
0:27:44 > 0:27:46if they assigned a photographer to me
0:27:46 > 0:27:49and at the time, I was filming a movie called Gypsy.
0:27:49 > 0:27:51So he met me at my house at six o'clock in the morning,
0:27:51 > 0:27:54took pictures of me without make-up, driving to the studio,
0:27:54 > 0:27:56in the make-up department, getting made up,
0:27:56 > 0:27:58filming all during the day, having lunch,
0:27:58 > 0:27:59and at the end of the day,
0:27:59 > 0:28:02I remember there was a recording session
0:28:02 > 0:28:05where I had to do my singing to be...you know, one of the numbers,
0:28:05 > 0:28:08and there was no time to go home and change or anything,
0:28:08 > 0:28:09so I changed at the studio
0:28:09 > 0:28:13and in the limousine to the awards, the whole way,
0:28:13 > 0:28:15he was leaning like this, taking pictures of me
0:28:15 > 0:28:17and my reactions, you know, my response to the whole thing.
0:28:17 > 0:28:20And then, very early on, that was the same year
0:28:20 > 0:28:22that West Side Story was winning everything,
0:28:22 > 0:28:25and so this photographer was seated in front of me
0:28:25 > 0:28:28and every time West Side Story won something,
0:28:28 > 0:28:30he'd turn round like this and take pictures of me,
0:28:30 > 0:28:31and I was smiling and happy.
0:28:31 > 0:28:33And finally, way towards the end of the ceremony -
0:28:33 > 0:28:36because I think the Best Actress is right towards the end -
0:28:36 > 0:28:38they read off the names and he is clicking away like mad,
0:28:38 > 0:28:41and I'm sitting there, trying not to look crazed.
0:28:41 > 0:28:45And then they said, "And the winner is...Sophia Loren."
0:28:45 > 0:28:47And he went like this...
0:28:47 > 0:28:48SHE SIGHS
0:28:48 > 0:28:50LAUGHTER
0:28:50 > 0:28:52Ripped the film out of the camera, furious,
0:28:52 > 0:28:55never said another word, end of his story.
0:28:57 > 0:29:00Perhaps the biggest impression made by a teenager in Hollywood
0:29:00 > 0:29:06was that of one of the greatest screen beauties - Lauren Bacall.
0:29:06 > 0:29:09She was just 19 when she made her movie debut
0:29:09 > 0:29:12in 1944's To Have And Have Not,
0:29:12 > 0:29:16which starred her future husband Humphrey Bogart
0:29:16 > 0:29:18and had entranced critics,
0:29:18 > 0:29:23crediting her with something they described as "The Look."
0:29:31 > 0:29:32Anybody got a match?
0:29:54 > 0:29:55Thanks.
0:29:55 > 0:29:57APPLAUSE
0:29:57 > 0:29:59Was that contrived, The Look, or was it accidental?
0:29:59 > 0:30:01Well, it was a result of my nerves
0:30:01 > 0:30:04which, if you look very closely, you might see again.
0:30:06 > 0:30:07I used to shake so much,
0:30:07 > 0:30:11that my head used to shake, and you know, in a film,
0:30:11 > 0:30:13when a director says, "Action",
0:30:13 > 0:30:16there is dead silence on a set, so all eyes are on you.
0:30:16 > 0:30:18Everything depends upon you.
0:30:18 > 0:30:21And I was such a nervous wreck
0:30:21 > 0:30:26that I discovered finally that one way to hold my head still
0:30:26 > 0:30:29was to hold down, and then the back of my neck got so stiff
0:30:29 > 0:30:32that nothing would move,
0:30:32 > 0:30:34and look up.
0:30:34 > 0:30:36And that became The Look.
0:30:36 > 0:30:40But it was that combined with Howard Hawks' terrific eye
0:30:40 > 0:30:43and knowing that, if the camera were in a certain position,
0:30:43 > 0:30:45then there were shadows in the right place -
0:30:45 > 0:30:48which I could do with right now, as a matter of fact - um...
0:30:48 > 0:30:50LAUGHTER
0:30:51 > 0:30:55I mean, it was the combination of what he saw and my panic.
0:30:55 > 0:31:00But how much of what came over, that sultry, sexy, worldly look,
0:31:00 > 0:31:02was the real you at that time?
0:31:02 > 0:31:05- None of it. - No - you were in fact 18.
0:31:05 > 0:31:09I mean, what can you be when you're 18 years old
0:31:09 > 0:31:11and you know nothing
0:31:11 > 0:31:16and you have no...very limited acting experience, almost none,
0:31:16 > 0:31:17and very little life experience?
0:31:17 > 0:31:20- I mean, how sophisticated can you be, for heaven's sake?- Yeah.
0:31:20 > 0:31:24But if you have a deep voice and Howard Hawks' writes your dialogue
0:31:24 > 0:31:27and directs you and lights you correctly and...
0:31:27 > 0:31:29Well, you can be anything.
0:31:29 > 0:31:30Did you think that you had
0:31:30 > 0:31:32the proper physical attributes at time,
0:31:32 > 0:31:35when you were 16, 17, to become a film star?
0:31:35 > 0:31:39Uh, Michael, you know I didn't - I was flat-chested
0:31:39 > 0:31:44and large of foot and very gawky...
0:31:46 > 0:31:50No, I didn't, and I mean, I always was shy about smiling
0:31:50 > 0:31:52because my teeth were crooked and...
0:31:52 > 0:31:54God, I don't know, I was a mess.
0:31:54 > 0:31:55I don't know how any of this ever happened.
0:31:55 > 0:31:57And of course, you had the looks -
0:31:57 > 0:31:59you can't have been as bad-looking as all that,
0:31:59 > 0:32:01because you became a famous model in America,
0:32:01 > 0:32:03which is how you got into...
0:32:03 > 0:32:05Yes, but that was luck, and that was...
0:32:05 > 0:32:07I mean, also, if you're photographed by the right person
0:32:07 > 0:32:10at the right time in the right way, you look OK.
0:32:10 > 0:32:13I don't say I was ugly, but I was sure as...
0:32:13 > 0:32:15No raving beauty, I'll tell you.
0:32:18 > 0:32:22In 1950, Lauren Bacall would appear in Young Man With A Horn
0:32:22 > 0:32:26alongside Kirk Douglas and a woman who would go on
0:32:26 > 0:32:31to become the biggest female box office star ever -
0:32:31 > 0:32:33Doris Day.
0:32:33 > 0:32:36Unlike Bacall, Doris wasn't an unattainable beauty,
0:32:36 > 0:32:39but in films like Pillow Talk with Rock Hudson
0:32:39 > 0:32:42and Move Over, Darling with James Garner,
0:32:42 > 0:32:44she was down-to-earth and funny,
0:32:44 > 0:32:48and that, she felt, was the secret to her success.
0:32:48 > 0:32:50Maybe I can't act and maybe I can't sing,
0:32:50 > 0:32:52but I want to find it out for myself, Mr Dennis Morgan,
0:32:52 > 0:32:55and if you don't mind, I'll buy my own ticket to the Hollywood Ball.
0:32:55 > 0:32:59'I wasn't the typical glamour girl.'
0:32:59 > 0:33:02And the ladies looked at me on the screen and thought,
0:33:02 > 0:33:04"Ah, if she can make it, so can I."
0:33:04 > 0:33:07You win, kid. Even if you don't get to be a big star, Hollywood's
0:33:07 > 0:33:09going to know it's been in a fight.
0:33:09 > 0:33:12And I'm going to do my best to see you get a break.
0:33:12 > 0:33:13Oh, Mr Morgan...
0:33:13 > 0:33:16You've made me the happiest girl in the whole world!
0:33:16 > 0:33:19'I also was called "The girl next door". '
0:33:19 > 0:33:24And that, of course, erm, supports what I've just said,
0:33:24 > 0:33:27that the ladies and the girls thought,
0:33:27 > 0:33:30"She's like the person living next door.
0:33:30 > 0:33:32"I could do this."
0:33:32 > 0:33:35'And they probably could.'
0:33:35 > 0:33:38# Gonna take a sentimental... #
0:33:38 > 0:33:42You were baptised Doris Kappelhoff. How did you turn into Doris Day?
0:33:42 > 0:33:47I was starting to sing, and I was doing a radio show
0:33:47 > 0:33:51in Cincinnati - not paid for it. And a song that I sang
0:33:51 > 0:33:56was Day After Day. And a band leader in Cincinnati, Barney Rapp...
0:33:57 > 0:34:01..hired me on the strength of that song.
0:34:01 > 0:34:05And when he heard that my real name was Doris Kappelhoff,
0:34:05 > 0:34:07that shocked him a bit.
0:34:07 > 0:34:09He said, "Well...
0:34:09 > 0:34:15"that takes up too much space on the marquee, can't have Kappelhoff."
0:34:15 > 0:34:19And I said, "Well, I don't like it much. And it doesn't sound right."
0:34:19 > 0:34:23So he said, "I like that song you sang yesterday,
0:34:23 > 0:34:27"I really like that song Day After Day." Doris Day.
0:34:27 > 0:34:31- So how did you react to your new name?- Oh, I hated it.
0:34:31 > 0:34:34I thought that it sounded really cheap.
0:34:34 > 0:34:39And I said, "It sounds like I'm starring at the Gaiety Theatre."
0:34:39 > 0:34:42Which was a burlesque house in Cincinnati.
0:34:42 > 0:34:44A lot of people you've worked with invented other names for you...
0:34:44 > 0:34:46SHE CHUCKLES
0:34:46 > 0:34:49..as if they also had reservations about that.
0:34:49 > 0:34:52Yes, the guys on the set used to call me Nora Neat.
0:34:52 > 0:34:54And Dorothy Detail.
0:34:54 > 0:34:57With Calamity Jane - a movie came along that...
0:34:57 > 0:35:00Where everything seems to be right, you had a good choreographer...
0:35:00 > 0:35:03It had a good atmosphere about it, everything seemed to click.
0:35:03 > 0:35:07You gave an extraordinarily energetic performance in that.
0:35:07 > 0:35:11- Oh, I loved it. I think Calamity Jane is the real me.- Hm.
0:35:11 > 0:35:12I do.
0:35:12 > 0:35:14- CHUCKLING:- I've always said that!
0:35:14 > 0:35:19'That was a wild movie, you know. And she was just noisy.
0:35:19 > 0:35:22'And rough house and wanted to be heard above everybody.'
0:35:22 > 0:35:25And you lowered your voice for it, you have a different...
0:35:25 > 0:35:28- Yes, I did.- ..voice for singing and acting.- Yes, I did.
0:35:28 > 0:35:33- TALKING DEEPLY:- Well... I talk like that.
0:35:33 > 0:35:37"Oh, come on, Bill." You know, down there. It's easy.
0:35:37 > 0:35:40MUSIC: Just Flew In From The Windy City
0:35:40 > 0:35:42# I just flew in from the Windy City
0:35:42 > 0:35:44# The Windy City is mighty pretty
0:35:44 > 0:35:48# But it ain't got what we got
0:35:48 > 0:35:49# I'm telling you, boys
0:35:49 > 0:35:52# I ain't a-swapping half of Deadwood
0:35:52 > 0:35:56# For the whole of Illinois. #
0:35:57 > 0:36:00At this time you managed, almost uniquely I think amongst Hollywood
0:36:00 > 0:36:04actresses, to sustain two entirely independent careers, really.
0:36:04 > 0:36:08One as a recording artist and one as a film star.
0:36:08 > 0:36:11And they weren't dependent on each other, they had
0:36:11 > 0:36:13- an independent existence. - Yes, they did.
0:36:13 > 0:36:16And both were extremely successful. Were the worlds very different?
0:36:16 > 0:36:21Not for me, not really. Of course, in films you pre-record,
0:36:21 > 0:36:23and then you sing to playback.
0:36:24 > 0:36:28And I had never done that...as a recording star.
0:36:28 > 0:36:31But that came very easy to me, and...
0:36:32 > 0:36:35..they used to always call me... They used to say,
0:36:35 > 0:36:39- "She'll do it in one take." Lip-synching.- Right.
0:36:39 > 0:36:43And I usually did. I'm not bragging. But I usually did,
0:36:43 > 0:36:45because it was easy for me.
0:36:45 > 0:36:47And when you record you don't have to do that,
0:36:47 > 0:36:49so I didn't know anything about that.
0:36:49 > 0:36:54But... And recording in the studios, you know, they take so much time.
0:36:54 > 0:37:00And I just never felt...that I wanted to take all that time.
0:37:00 > 0:37:03I didn't want to take three or four hours to do one song.
0:37:05 > 0:37:09And... Oh, have to tell you a funny one. Maybe you know this...
0:37:09 > 0:37:14On Secret Love...Ray Heindorf said, "Is one o'clock in the afternoon
0:37:14 > 0:37:17"all right for you, Dodo?" And I said, "Sure, it's fine."
0:37:17 > 0:37:19And I rehearsed a little bit in the morning.
0:37:19 > 0:37:22And went on a voice rest for a while.
0:37:22 > 0:37:28And about a quarter of one, I got out the bicycle and rode over,
0:37:28 > 0:37:33cos I lived right near Warner's. And came into the recording studio.
0:37:33 > 0:37:35And he said, "Well, we're all rehearsed.
0:37:35 > 0:37:38"We've been here for a couple of hours and the orchestra's rehearsed.
0:37:38 > 0:37:43"And how do you feel?" And I said, "Great, let's go!"
0:37:43 > 0:37:48And he had scheduled, I believe, one to four for the recording session.
0:37:48 > 0:37:53I went to the booth and I said, "Ray, why don't we...
0:37:53 > 0:37:56"Why don't we do a take?"
0:37:56 > 0:37:59And he said, "Well, you haven't rehearsed it with us."
0:37:59 > 0:38:02And I said, "What's the difference? Let's do a take."
0:38:02 > 0:38:06We did a take and it was it. It was in one take.
0:38:06 > 0:38:08We did it in three minutes and I went home.
0:38:08 > 0:38:11MUSIC: Secret Love
0:38:11 > 0:38:16# And why I'm so in love with you. #
0:38:16 > 0:38:21That was the one! I swear. My right hand.
0:38:21 > 0:38:23Jack Lemmon once said that you were a method actress who
0:38:23 > 0:38:27- never went near the Actors Studio. - What a nice thing to say!
0:38:27 > 0:38:29I wanted to go to the Actors Studio!
0:38:29 > 0:38:31Oh, God!
0:38:32 > 0:38:35Tony, help me!
0:38:35 > 0:38:39'I can cry right now...if you'd like me to.'
0:38:39 > 0:38:42SHE WAILS
0:38:42 > 0:38:47I don't fake it, but I have a lot of things that I can think about.
0:38:47 > 0:38:48And I can cry like that.
0:38:50 > 0:38:53In the late '50s, you were offered quite a lot of parts that
0:38:53 > 0:38:58you felt were too permissive. Instead, you chose Teacher's Pet
0:38:58 > 0:39:02as a major project. Now, what attracted you to that?
0:39:02 > 0:39:04Clark Gable!
0:39:04 > 0:39:07The, erm, teacher-student relationship is, uh...
0:39:07 > 0:39:10- a very complex one...- Very.
0:39:10 > 0:39:15You, um, have to be...friendly and yet keep your distance
0:39:15 > 0:39:18- at the same time.- Sure, sure... - Otherwise, um...
0:39:18 > 0:39:20how would you ever, um...
0:39:20 > 0:39:24- Um, maintain discipline? - Oh, you need to be deft...
0:39:26 > 0:39:30The film, I think, points the way to the romantic comedies...
0:39:30 > 0:39:34- It did in a way, didn't it? - Cos it's the story of a career woman
0:39:34 > 0:39:38who loves what she's doing, and who has to come to terms with a rather
0:39:38 > 0:39:42- devious, aggressive man. - 'A macho male.'
0:39:42 > 0:39:46And, Christopher, I would like to talk a little about Clark,
0:39:46 > 0:39:50if I could. He was anything but macho.
0:39:50 > 0:39:53He was the gentlest, dearest man.
0:39:53 > 0:39:58And very humble. It was wonderful to see...
0:39:58 > 0:40:02After a take...he was like a little boy and he would say to
0:40:02 > 0:40:04George Seaton, our director,
0:40:04 > 0:40:10"George...are you sure that I gave you what you wanted?
0:40:10 > 0:40:14"Are you sure?" And George would say, "Oh, Clark, it was very good.
0:40:14 > 0:40:18"It was just right on." "I'm happy to do it again, George.
0:40:18 > 0:40:21"Just say the word. I want you to be happy...
0:40:22 > 0:40:24"..with what I'm doing."
0:40:24 > 0:40:25MUSIC: Possess Me
0:40:25 > 0:40:28# Hold me tight and kiss me right
0:40:28 > 0:40:32# I'm yours tonight
0:40:32 > 0:40:36# My darling possess me... #
0:40:37 > 0:40:42With Pillow Talk in 1959, began the third, and by far the most popular,
0:40:42 > 0:40:46phase in Doris Day's career, as she became the number-one
0:40:46 > 0:40:48box office star for five successive years.
0:40:48 > 0:40:52Co-produced by her husband, Marty Melcher, and the occasion of her
0:40:52 > 0:40:55one and only Oscar nomination, Pillow Talk with Rock Hudson
0:40:55 > 0:40:59is the Doris Day movie most people remember.
0:40:59 > 0:41:02Part Broadway-style romance, part bedroom comedy,
0:41:02 > 0:41:04it gave her the chance to play
0:41:04 > 0:41:07a sexy, sophisticated New Yorker for once.
0:41:07 > 0:41:09Was this a bit risky at the time?
0:41:09 > 0:41:13It seemed risque. But isn't it funny when you think what they're showing now?
0:41:13 > 0:41:17Ah! I was crazy about that script.
0:41:17 > 0:41:19And I loved the clothes
0:41:19 > 0:41:23and I loved working with Rock the first time.
0:41:23 > 0:41:25He was the one who was worried.
0:41:25 > 0:41:27Look, I don't know what's bothering you,
0:41:27 > 0:41:30but don't take your bedroom problems out on me.
0:41:30 > 0:41:31I have no bedroom problems!
0:41:31 > 0:41:33There's nothing in my bedroom that bothers me.
0:41:33 > 0:41:36Oh, that's too bad(!)
0:41:36 > 0:41:38'He had never played comedy,'
0:41:38 > 0:41:43and he wasn't sure that he could. And we all...
0:41:43 > 0:41:47assured him that he would be wonderful in it, and he was.
0:41:47 > 0:41:49We had a great time.
0:41:49 > 0:41:52There's a sequence in Pillow Talk where Rock Hudson sweeps
0:41:52 > 0:41:55you off your feet, walks down the steps into the street -
0:41:55 > 0:41:58you're wearing pyjamas at the time. I gather that sequence
0:41:58 > 0:42:01- caused some problems. - Well, he had a bad back...
0:42:01 > 0:42:06And he said... I said, "Well now, look, I don't weigh that much."
0:42:06 > 0:42:10And it wasn't that. He couldn't, you know, support me
0:42:10 > 0:42:15without having some help. So they made a seat -
0:42:15 > 0:42:19you didn't know about that. See, we hid that with the blanket.'
0:42:19 > 0:42:24Harry...would you be so kind as to call the police?
0:42:24 > 0:42:28It had straps that went over his shoulders, under his jacket...
0:42:28 > 0:42:32which supported him, and supported me, really.
0:42:33 > 0:42:37And so it worked very well. And I said, "Oh, great! All the women
0:42:37 > 0:42:41"in the audience are going to think, 'Isn't he a he-man!'
0:42:41 > 0:42:43"I'm going to tell 'em all."
0:42:43 > 0:42:45I'm sorry I made you drive so far out to such a lonely
0:42:45 > 0:42:47stretch of beach.
0:42:47 > 0:42:51It's all right. Really, you shouldn't be embarrassed to
0:42:51 > 0:42:54- have people see you like that. - Well, I-I...
0:42:54 > 0:42:58- No, you look wonderful without your clothes.- So do you...
0:42:59 > 0:43:01- Oh... I meant...- So did I.
0:43:01 > 0:43:04The screen partnership with Rock Hudson's one of the
0:43:04 > 0:43:06aspects of your career that everybody remembers.
0:43:06 > 0:43:08It's the real high point of your movie career.
0:43:08 > 0:43:11What was the chemistry there? Did you get on very well as people?
0:43:11 > 0:43:13Yes, we did.
0:43:13 > 0:43:18Oh...we were very good friends. And yet I didn't see Rock often...
0:43:18 > 0:43:23socially. He had his own friends and, erm...
0:43:23 > 0:43:28And we were, you know, usually socialising with married couples
0:43:28 > 0:43:32and, um... But that didn't make any difference,
0:43:32 > 0:43:35he and I were very good friends. We loved working together,
0:43:35 > 0:43:40we respected each other. And I think that came across.
0:43:40 > 0:43:42There's one rather uncomfortable thing, watching them,
0:43:42 > 0:43:45there's quite a lot of gags about gay men in the films.
0:43:45 > 0:43:48About, you know, the number-one male star...
0:43:48 > 0:43:50- In Pillow Talk there was... - In Pillow Talk, exactly.
0:43:50 > 0:43:53Was that tense for Rock Hudson to do?
0:43:54 > 0:43:59I don't think so. I didn't...see it as such.
0:44:00 > 0:44:01Erm...
0:44:01 > 0:44:06Nothing was ever talked about as far as his private life.
0:44:06 > 0:44:10And I must tell you that many, many people would ask me...
0:44:10 > 0:44:13You know, "Is Rock Hudson really gay?"
0:44:13 > 0:44:17And I said, "It's something that I...
0:44:18 > 0:44:21"..will not discuss. I mean, first of all,
0:44:21 > 0:44:24"I know nothing about his private life.
0:44:24 > 0:44:27"And if I did, I wouldn't discuss it.
0:44:27 > 0:44:29"So, I can't tell you one thing about him,
0:44:29 > 0:44:32"except that he is a nice man."
0:44:32 > 0:44:34A lot of commentators have said that Pillow Talk
0:44:34 > 0:44:36and the films that immediately followed
0:44:36 > 0:44:39are about a perpetual virgin protecting her honour.
0:44:39 > 0:44:41- Actually, I don't see them like that at all...- No.
0:44:41 > 0:44:44They're like a sort of adult woman protecting her space.
0:44:44 > 0:44:46- You know, protecting her integrity. - Uh-hm.
0:44:46 > 0:44:49And I don't know why people landed that label on them at the time.
0:44:49 > 0:44:52It gives them something to talk about and it gives it a label
0:44:52 > 0:44:55and that's what they like.
0:44:55 > 0:44:57And they hope that the audiences will go for it
0:44:57 > 0:44:59and accept it. And I think it's silly.
0:44:59 > 0:45:02The histories of film tend to say about you -
0:45:02 > 0:45:04"She was everyone's idea of the girl next door."
0:45:04 > 0:45:08And she was "As American as Miss Apple Pie."
0:45:08 > 0:45:10What would you like the histories of film to say about you?
0:45:10 > 0:45:13Oh, I don't really care that much about apple pie,
0:45:13 > 0:45:17I like peach. So many people write to me...
0:45:17 > 0:45:19I'm going by what they say...
0:45:20 > 0:45:26And they say that...when they're depressed or feeling really low...
0:45:27 > 0:45:31..they'll go to see one of my films...and they feel better.
0:45:32 > 0:45:39Now... I don't know what that means, except that...
0:45:41 > 0:45:46..if what I do brings a joy...
0:45:48 > 0:45:50..to, to the people...
0:45:50 > 0:45:52..that... I would love that.
0:45:52 > 0:45:56- MUSIC: Shaking The Blues Away - # Do like the voodoos do... #
0:45:58 > 0:46:02A Doris Day film does still bring joy.
0:46:02 > 0:46:05And the power of a Joan Crawford or Bette Davis performance,
0:46:05 > 0:46:09Bacall's beauty, and the youth and energy of Debbie Reynolds
0:46:09 > 0:46:10and Natalie Wood -
0:46:10 > 0:46:13all are as real today as they were back
0:46:13 > 0:46:16when these leading ladies were figures that audiences would
0:46:16 > 0:46:22connect with, be inspired by, and sometimes just marvel at.