0:00:19 > 0:00:22One of the greatest stars from the golden age of movies,
0:00:22 > 0:00:27Ingrid Bergman, came from Sweden to America in the 1930s.
0:00:27 > 0:00:29Her talent
0:00:29 > 0:00:33and natural beauty won the hearts of cinema-goers the world over.
0:00:35 > 0:00:40For a period in the 1940s, she was Hollywood's biggest box office draw.
0:00:40 > 0:00:43She starred in the enduring classic Casablanca
0:00:43 > 0:00:47and was awarded a Best Actress Oscar for her role in Gaslight.
0:00:49 > 0:00:52Then, in the 1950s, came scandal.
0:00:52 > 0:00:55An affair and a child with the Italian director
0:00:55 > 0:01:00Roberto Rossellini while she was still married to her first husband.
0:01:00 > 0:01:04Bergman was condemned by America's outraged moral guardians,
0:01:04 > 0:01:07in politics and the press.
0:01:07 > 0:01:08She left the US for several years,
0:01:08 > 0:01:13but when she finally returned to Hollywood, it was in triumph.
0:01:13 > 0:01:17Her film Anastasia earned her a second Oscar.
0:01:20 > 0:01:25Our first interview is from an appearance on Parkinson in 1973.
0:01:25 > 0:01:29And the discussion begins with an open
0:01:29 > 0:01:32confession from the infatuated host.
0:01:32 > 0:01:36I must now confess a hitherto unpublished fact about myself
0:01:36 > 0:01:38and it concerns my next guest.
0:01:38 > 0:01:40It is that I've been in love with her for years.
0:01:40 > 0:01:44She never knew because when we first met more than 20 years ago,
0:01:44 > 0:01:47I was in the one and nines at the local fleapit
0:01:47 > 0:01:50and she was up there on the screen, looking like an angel.
0:01:50 > 0:01:54And this was the precise moment that the both of us met.
0:01:56 > 0:01:58Play it, Sam.
0:01:58 > 0:02:00Play As Time Goes By.
0:02:00 > 0:02:02I can't remember it, Miss Ilsa.
0:02:02 > 0:02:04I'm a little rusty on it.
0:02:04 > 0:02:05I'll hum it for you.
0:02:07 > 0:02:09# Da-da da-da da-dum
0:02:09 > 0:02:13# Da-da da-di da-dum... #
0:02:13 > 0:02:17HE PLAYS
0:02:17 > 0:02:19Sing it, Sam.
0:02:21 > 0:02:24# You must remember this
0:02:24 > 0:02:27# A kiss is just a kiss
0:02:27 > 0:02:32# A sigh is just a sigh
0:02:32 > 0:02:36# The fundamental things apply
0:02:36 > 0:02:40# As time goes by
0:02:42 > 0:02:46# And when two lovers woo
0:02:46 > 0:02:49# They still say I love you
0:02:49 > 0:02:53# On that you can rely
0:02:55 > 0:02:59# No matter what the future brings
0:02:59 > 0:03:02# As time goes by. #
0:03:02 > 0:03:06Sam, I thought I told you never to play...
0:03:13 > 0:03:16I could watch that scene for ever.
0:03:16 > 0:03:19Ladies and gentlemen, my special guest tonight, Ingrid Bergman.
0:03:19 > 0:03:21APPLAUSE
0:03:39 > 0:03:43I've waited a long time and I must say it's worth it.
0:03:43 > 0:03:45Well, it's very nice of you indeed.
0:03:45 > 0:03:48I really do approve of my taste. Did you know when...?
0:03:48 > 0:03:50LAUGHTER
0:03:50 > 0:03:54Did you know when you were making that film, Casablanca,
0:03:54 > 0:03:57that it would one day become the cult movie that it is now?
0:03:57 > 0:04:00No, I certainly did not at all.
0:04:00 > 0:04:04It was a great confusion during the shooting of the picture
0:04:04 > 0:04:08and I'm quite surprised, but I must say I saw the picture here at the
0:04:08 > 0:04:12Film Institute about two years ago for the first time on the screen,
0:04:12 > 0:04:17not on television, and I really thought it was a very good movie.
0:04:17 > 0:04:20- It is a good movie.- Yes. Surprise!
0:04:20 > 0:04:22There aren't many films, are there,
0:04:22 > 0:04:26that you can look back at and think, "That's a good, good movie."
0:04:26 > 0:04:28It was good also because all the parts
0:04:28 > 0:04:30were played by such good actors.
0:04:30 > 0:04:34The smallest part was really a top class actor.
0:04:34 > 0:04:36- Yes.- So that helped a lot.- Yes.
0:04:36 > 0:04:39Is it true it was made in, as you say, confusion?
0:04:39 > 0:04:42- Nobody had a real idea. - No, we didn't.
0:04:42 > 0:04:46The script, it was written as we went along and to tell you the truth,
0:04:46 > 0:04:52no-one knew how to end it, so we went along until the bitter end
0:04:52 > 0:04:56and it was very bitter because they said, I should shoot it both ways.
0:04:56 > 0:04:59Either I should go with the husband in the plane,
0:04:59 > 0:05:03played by Paul Henreid, or stay on the ground with Humphrey Bogart.
0:05:03 > 0:05:07LAUGHTER And it was very difficult to act out these love scenes because
0:05:07 > 0:05:11I really didn't know which one of the two men I was in love with.
0:05:11 > 0:05:13LAUGHTER But it doesn't show!
0:05:13 > 0:05:16No, it doesn't. You went off with the right fella in the end.
0:05:16 > 0:05:20- What about Bogart? He's grown into a cult figure too, hasn't he?- Yes.
0:05:20 > 0:05:23- Oh, very much so.- What is the appeal?
0:05:23 > 0:05:26- Were you able to assess it when you were working with him?- No.
0:05:26 > 0:05:30Of course, he was an excellent actor and he always played himself.
0:05:30 > 0:05:34He didn't make any character...make-up or change
0:05:34 > 0:05:37anything. As a matter of fact, I think
0:05:37 > 0:05:40he wore the same raincoat and the same hat in every movie.
0:05:40 > 0:05:42LAUGHTER
0:05:42 > 0:05:44He must have been terrible to be close to!
0:05:44 > 0:05:46LAUGHTER Well...
0:05:49 > 0:05:53He had that marvellous voice that you can hear right now this minute.
0:05:53 > 0:05:56It was such an interesting and rough voice
0:05:56 > 0:05:58and of course he was also considered a tough man,
0:05:58 > 0:06:02but I think that inside he was quite a loveable person.
0:06:02 > 0:06:05You say you think so, didn't you get to know him at all?
0:06:05 > 0:06:07No, I really didn't.
0:06:07 > 0:06:11I think he was upset as everybody else about not having a script
0:06:11 > 0:06:13and not knowing exactly where we were going
0:06:13 > 0:06:17and he used to stay very much by himself.
0:06:17 > 0:06:19And... Well, in another interview...
0:06:19 > 0:06:21Of course, I have talked a lot about Casablanca!
0:06:21 > 0:06:23Ignore all the other interviews.
0:06:23 > 0:06:26This is the first time you've talked to me.
0:06:26 > 0:06:30And they used to ask me if I knew him and I said, "No, I don't know him.
0:06:30 > 0:06:32"I kissed him, but I don't know him!"
0:06:32 > 0:06:35It must be difficult, particularly playing a romantic part
0:06:35 > 0:06:38opposite somebody that you literally don't know.
0:06:38 > 0:06:40You just see on the set.
0:06:40 > 0:06:44No, it isn't difficult, when you look like Humphrey Bogart.
0:06:44 > 0:06:47You can act like he does.
0:06:47 > 0:06:49I think he's absolutely wonderful.
0:06:49 > 0:06:52I'm so pleased when I see that he looks at me
0:06:52 > 0:06:56with such love in his eyes. It's very flattering.
0:06:56 > 0:06:59Of course, one of the great characters in that film,
0:06:59 > 0:07:02behind the scenes, was Michael Curtiz, the director.
0:07:02 > 0:07:05There are more stories about Curtiz in Hollywood than probably
0:07:05 > 0:07:08- Cecil B DeMille, I suppose.- Yes.
0:07:08 > 0:07:12He was a very colourful person and temperamental.
0:07:12 > 0:07:14He told me a very funny story.
0:07:14 > 0:07:18When he came from Hungary, that was years before Casablanca, because he
0:07:18 > 0:07:24had done several pictures before, he arrived in America by boat
0:07:24 > 0:07:30and he saw the harbour full of flags and bands playing
0:07:30 > 0:07:34and ribbons were flying and he was so moved where he stood,
0:07:34 > 0:07:38seeing this, he said, "I didn't know that they knew me so well in America
0:07:38 > 0:07:40"and I would get a reception like this!"
0:07:40 > 0:07:45And it was much later they told him it was the 4th July.
0:07:45 > 0:07:46LAUGHTER
0:07:46 > 0:07:52- It was not for him.- Poor devil. Can you remember your first audition?
0:07:52 > 0:07:55Yes, I started dramatic school
0:07:55 > 0:07:59and we have the Royal Theatre in Stockholm
0:07:59 > 0:08:01and that is a free school, you see,
0:08:01 > 0:08:04so everybody tries to get in there because it's the best education
0:08:04 > 0:08:07and the best teachers and also you don't pay anything.
0:08:07 > 0:08:12And you're taken care of, you're supposed to play small parts
0:08:12 > 0:08:17after three years of studying, so you already have five years ahead of you.
0:08:17 > 0:08:23I tested to get in there and we were about 75 youngsters
0:08:23 > 0:08:27and there are all the actors and the teachers
0:08:27 > 0:08:30and the head of theatre and you came out on the stage
0:08:30 > 0:08:33and you read whatever you had to read and I had just begun
0:08:33 > 0:08:36when somebody said, "That's enough, Miss.
0:08:36 > 0:08:38"Out. You can go."
0:08:38 > 0:08:42And of course, I thought that I was so awfully bad that they
0:08:42 > 0:08:45didn't have the patience to listen through my test.
0:08:45 > 0:08:48Well, I went out and I stood there
0:08:48 > 0:08:51and looked at the sea in front of the theatre,
0:08:51 > 0:08:55we have a lot of water in Stockholm, and I was wondering if I should throw
0:08:55 > 0:08:59myself in the water and get it over with right away
0:08:59 > 0:09:02because I wanted very badly to become an actress.
0:09:02 > 0:09:06However, I got a message to come back to the theatre and I was engaged.
0:09:06 > 0:09:09Later on, I asked why they had done it
0:09:09 > 0:09:12and it was very cruel of them, of the jury, to do that, and they said,
0:09:12 > 0:09:16"The minute you got in and the way you moved on the stage,
0:09:16 > 0:09:19"we realised that you had it, we didn't want to waste any more time.
0:09:19 > 0:09:23- "You were in." - Of course, I thought I was out. Yes.
0:09:23 > 0:09:26How did you...? You then moved... Eventually, you got to Hollywood.
0:09:26 > 0:09:30I didn't have the patience to go through the five years in the school
0:09:30 > 0:09:33and being engaged by the theatre, I went directly to the movies.
0:09:33 > 0:09:37- Yes, Swedish movies, that's right.- Yes.
0:09:37 > 0:09:40And I worked for a couple of years and then a picture called
0:09:40 > 0:09:44- Intermezzo, that you called Escape To Happiness in England.- Yes.
0:09:44 > 0:09:49It was shown in a small art theatre in New York and David Selznick
0:09:49 > 0:09:54had a lady who was reading books and looking for talent for him.
0:09:54 > 0:09:57She went up into her office building,
0:09:57 > 0:10:01the elevator boy was of Swedish descent
0:10:01 > 0:10:04and his parents had gone to see this Swedish movie
0:10:04 > 0:10:06and said to this lady,
0:10:06 > 0:10:09her name is Katherine Brown, "My parents were very much
0:10:09 > 0:10:13"taken by a young Swedish actress and I think you are looking for talent,
0:10:13 > 0:10:15"why don't you go and see the movie?"
0:10:15 > 0:10:17She did. She sent the movie to Mr Selznick
0:10:17 > 0:10:21and he asked me to come over to America and do a repeat,
0:10:21 > 0:10:25so I owe my career in America to the elevator boy.
0:10:25 > 0:10:30That's how it happens in movies, actually! Did you...?
0:10:30 > 0:10:34I suppose they got hold of you and they started to try to process you.
0:10:34 > 0:10:38Yes. That was very difficult in the beginning
0:10:38 > 0:10:44and I don't know where I got my determination and strength from.
0:10:44 > 0:10:49I was so young and I wanted so much to try my wings in Hollywood.
0:10:49 > 0:10:53But immediately, I was considered too tall
0:10:53 > 0:10:57and they were going to do something with my face and knock out my
0:10:57 > 0:11:01teeth, put in other teeth and change my eyebrows and make them thinner.
0:11:01 > 0:11:03And change my name.
0:11:03 > 0:11:06When I heard all that, I got terribly frightened and said,
0:11:06 > 0:11:08"I want to go back. I don't want to do all that."
0:11:08 > 0:11:12It would be terrible if my first movie was a flop
0:11:12 > 0:11:15and I had to go back to Sweden because they wouldn't want me in
0:11:15 > 0:11:19Hollywood and I will come back with a changed face and a changed name.
0:11:19 > 0:11:22I wouldn't be able to pick up my career after that.
0:11:22 > 0:11:26So I refused and refused and refused and then they accepted
0:11:26 > 0:11:29my name and what I looked like.
0:11:29 > 0:11:32Are you a very stubborn person? Are you a determined person?
0:11:32 > 0:11:36Yes, I think I'm quite stubborn when it comes to my work.
0:11:36 > 0:11:40I'm willing to listen. I listen to everybody. But I select.
0:11:40 > 0:11:43You became, of course, the biggest female box office
0:11:43 > 0:11:46- star in the world at that time, didn't you?- Oh, I don't know.
0:11:46 > 0:11:49- Did I really?- Indeed. I've been doing my homework.
0:11:49 > 0:11:52And in fact, there was only one male star whose picture made more
0:11:52 > 0:11:54money than you and that was Bing Crosby.
0:11:54 > 0:11:57- Oh.- You didn't know that? - No, I didn't know that.
0:11:57 > 0:12:00- They probably owe you some money! - LAUGHTER
0:12:00 > 0:12:03We'll talk now about the days in Hollywood when, as I say,
0:12:03 > 0:12:06you were the sort of biggest box office
0:12:06 > 0:12:08star in the world, female box office star.
0:12:08 > 0:12:11Can I take you now to the point in your career where it all
0:12:11 > 0:12:13sort of crumbled apart?
0:12:13 > 0:12:181950, wasn't it, when you went to make Stromboli?
0:12:18 > 0:12:21It sounds as if it crumbled because I left.
0:12:21 > 0:12:23I like that, I think.
0:12:23 > 0:12:27It needs recapping on. You went to make this film with Rossellini.
0:12:27 > 0:12:31You were a married woman, you fell in love with him, you had his child.
0:12:31 > 0:12:36- It created the most extraordinary stink, didn't it?- It certainly did.
0:12:36 > 0:12:40- Yes.- When you look back at it now, what are your feelings?
0:12:40 > 0:12:43Well, I feel the same thing as I felt then.
0:12:43 > 0:12:48I felt it was my private life and people who judged and wrote
0:12:48 > 0:12:51and talked in the American Senate and wanted me
0:12:51 > 0:12:54to be for ever excluded from American movies
0:12:54 > 0:12:57and even putting my feet in America, that they
0:12:57 > 0:13:00didn't know what they were talking about
0:13:00 > 0:13:03because they didn't know me, they didn't know what had happened.
0:13:03 > 0:13:07And the only judge that I had was my own country.
0:13:07 > 0:13:12Now, of course, I have gone back to America and I played in Washington
0:13:12 > 0:13:19and 23 years later, another senator went up in the Senate
0:13:19 > 0:13:25and very kindly asked pardon for what the other senator had said
0:13:25 > 0:13:29and he said not only was I welcome in America but they were honoured
0:13:29 > 0:13:33to have my visits, so if you live long enough, you see, it all comes...
0:13:33 > 0:13:35Everything is fine again.
0:13:35 > 0:13:40Well, that's true about the moral stance that people took then.
0:13:40 > 0:13:44Because, I mean, today, if it happened today, who would care?
0:13:44 > 0:13:47Yes, I don't think anybody would care.
0:13:47 > 0:13:50I don't say that I approve of my behaviour,
0:13:50 > 0:13:53it's not that at all, it is just that people
0:13:53 > 0:13:57so quickly are ready to judge without knowing the background.
0:13:57 > 0:14:00And I think today, we've heard so much and seen so much,
0:14:00 > 0:14:03that people have just become more callous.
0:14:03 > 0:14:06They don't care and they really don't care
0:14:06 > 0:14:09so much about people's private lives any more.
0:14:09 > 0:14:12It was extraordinary. I was reading through the press reports
0:14:12 > 0:14:14of the time and there was one extraordinary...
0:14:14 > 0:14:18- You were described as an "apostle of degradation".- That's right.
0:14:18 > 0:14:22"Dirty, lousy and filthy". I mean, it's quite extraordinary.
0:14:22 > 0:14:25But I mean, I'm sure that stuff like that must leave some
0:14:25 > 0:14:28kind of scar on you. Some resentment.
0:14:28 > 0:14:31If somebody called me that, I'd get very angry indeed.
0:14:31 > 0:14:36Yes, I was. But you can't be angry for years and years.
0:14:36 > 0:14:41Also, so many people tried to tell me, that there was enormous
0:14:41 > 0:14:43love for me, which is true.
0:14:43 > 0:14:46The American public has been absolutely wonderful to me.
0:14:46 > 0:14:52That their love turned to hatred because my image was the good,
0:14:52 > 0:14:59wonderful...woman who had played, but they forgot that - "played",
0:14:59 > 0:15:04the saint and a nun and all those suffering women.
0:15:04 > 0:15:06They forgot that I was a woman
0:15:06 > 0:15:10and maybe not at all what I did on the screen.
0:15:10 > 0:15:12That was not me.
0:15:12 > 0:15:16But as I say, you can't keep going on thinking about that any more.
0:15:16 > 0:15:20I forgot that long ago. I'm back in America, I've been to Hollywood
0:15:20 > 0:15:24- and I've played both in the theatre and on the screen.- Yes.
0:15:24 > 0:15:28Can I ask you, though, when you look back now, you've in fact
0:15:28 > 0:15:32- divorced Rossellini since then and you are now married again.- Yes.
0:15:32 > 0:15:35Bearing that in mind, it's an impossible question, but
0:15:35 > 0:15:38if you could go through it again, would you do the same thing again?
0:15:38 > 0:15:43I certainly would. Yes, because I knew what I did.
0:15:43 > 0:15:47I didn't do anything that was just haphazard or anything,
0:15:47 > 0:15:51I was very conscious of what I was doing.
0:15:51 > 0:15:55And I thought, following naturally what I have to follow,
0:15:55 > 0:15:59which is my own head, I did the right thing.
0:15:59 > 0:16:02Bergman's versatility was underlined by the fact that during her
0:16:02 > 0:16:06career, she acted in five different languages.
0:16:06 > 0:16:09In 1974, she won a third Oscar, this
0:16:09 > 0:16:14time for Best Supporting Actress in Murder On The Orient Express.
0:16:14 > 0:16:18Co-stars and directors would call her the ultimate professional.
0:16:18 > 0:16:21Here, in an interview with Ronald Eyre,
0:16:21 > 0:16:25in the BBC One programme Ingrid Bergman Remembers,
0:16:25 > 0:16:29she offers some insight into the daily working life of a movie star.
0:16:29 > 0:16:32You obviously have to keep severe hours if you're filming,
0:16:32 > 0:16:35you are brought to the studio very early and may well work very late.
0:16:35 > 0:16:38Does this suit your temperament? You like an ordered life?
0:16:38 > 0:16:41Yes, I think making a movie is a vacation.
0:16:41 > 0:16:45I always call that my vacation. It is absolutely no work at all.
0:16:45 > 0:16:48You get up early in the morning, what's the difference?
0:16:48 > 0:16:51You go to bed a little earlier in the evening.
0:16:51 > 0:16:53The hours are just put this way.
0:16:53 > 0:16:55You might not be able to go to dinner parties
0:16:55 > 0:16:57and go to a theatre or something like that,
0:16:57 > 0:17:00but it's for a very short period while the picture is being done.
0:17:00 > 0:17:02To get up in the morning is not difficult.
0:17:02 > 0:17:04Then, you are taken care of. You see?
0:17:04 > 0:17:07They bring the car, they bring you to the studio,
0:17:07 > 0:17:09they put you in a chair,
0:17:09 > 0:17:12they make you up as well as you can possibly look, they fix your hair,
0:17:12 > 0:17:16they bring you in another car and they take you to location or
0:17:16 > 0:17:19wherever we shoot, they bring you coffee.
0:17:19 > 0:17:23And all they ask of you is to get up there and say a couple of lines
0:17:23 > 0:17:26and if you don't say them well, you do it again and again until you
0:17:26 > 0:17:30do them well and if you don't do them well, you can always dub them!
0:17:30 > 0:17:32No, that is a vacation.
0:17:32 > 0:17:35Over modest, I reckon, that assessment of your work.
0:17:35 > 0:17:39- No, but it is much easier than the theatre.- Yes, indeed.
0:17:39 > 0:17:42- You don't have to sustain it quite that long.- No.
0:17:42 > 0:17:46You had a chance in For Whom The Bell Tolls of being in touch
0:17:46 > 0:17:49- with a major writer.- Yes.
0:17:49 > 0:17:52When you say that you go through a work
0:17:52 > 0:17:55and underline the bits you want to say, did you do the same?
0:17:55 > 0:17:59Yes, I knew the book by heart and I had all my scenes underlined.
0:17:59 > 0:18:03Don't forget this piece of dialogue, don't forget here,
0:18:03 > 0:18:07doing this or saying this. Yes, I'm very faithful to the author.
0:18:07 > 0:18:10Did you have to put your foot down about including certain
0:18:10 > 0:18:12things you thought should be in?
0:18:12 > 0:18:15If somebody can persuade me that his idea is better,
0:18:15 > 0:18:17I give up immediately.
0:18:17 > 0:18:21But it has to make sense. It has to be something that... I think
0:18:21 > 0:18:25everything you do in this kind of work has to be worked out 50-50.
0:18:25 > 0:18:28Hitchcock used to be wonderful with me because he used to listen to all
0:18:28 > 0:18:31my arguments and you thought you had him,
0:18:31 > 0:18:34he didn't answer, just sit there and listen, listen,
0:18:34 > 0:18:36"I have got him now, he's on my side,"
0:18:36 > 0:18:40and then when you've finished he said, "I get your point.
0:18:40 > 0:18:44"Now do exactly what I told you to do and fake it!"
0:18:44 > 0:18:47And that taught me something, which is very clever,
0:18:47 > 0:18:52that you can do certain things that in real life you might not do it,
0:18:52 > 0:18:56but you do on the screen because it has to be within the frame
0:18:56 > 0:19:00and it has to be there for his camera to get that movement and then,
0:19:00 > 0:19:03you know, fake it and you do it.
0:19:03 > 0:19:07It seems to me that you're not a person who shows what one can
0:19:07 > 0:19:10call nerves usually and if you make a film like Gaslight,
0:19:10 > 0:19:14in which you are a wife with a murderer husband
0:19:14 > 0:19:17and he's trying to keep you in the house and he's driving you
0:19:17 > 0:19:21quietly mad, I think you, Ingrid Bergman, would walk away.
0:19:21 > 0:19:23No, I love it!
0:19:23 > 0:19:25Love it!
0:19:25 > 0:19:29But this performance did produce your first Academy Award, I believe.
0:19:31 > 0:19:35# La, la-la, la-la, la-la-la... #
0:19:35 > 0:19:37SHE LAUGHS
0:19:38 > 0:19:41Oh, Gregory...
0:19:41 > 0:19:43What's the matter?
0:19:46 > 0:19:48Paula, I don't want to upset you.
0:19:48 > 0:19:51If you will put things right when I'm not looking,
0:19:51 > 0:19:54- we'll assume it did not happen. - What? Gregory, what?
0:19:54 > 0:19:58Oh, please don't turn your back on me. What has happened?
0:19:59 > 0:20:02You mean you don't know?
0:20:02 > 0:20:04No, I...
0:20:04 > 0:20:06Look...
0:20:19 > 0:20:21Yes.
0:20:22 > 0:20:26The little picture has been taken down.
0:20:28 > 0:20:30Who took it down?
0:20:32 > 0:20:36- Why has it been taken down? - Why indeed?
0:20:36 > 0:20:39Why was it taken down before?
0:20:39 > 0:20:42Will you please get it from wherever you've hidden it
0:20:42 > 0:20:44and it put it back in its place?
0:20:44 > 0:20:48But I haven't hidden it. I swear I haven't. Why should I?
0:20:48 > 0:20:52Why should... Don't look at me like that.
0:20:52 > 0:20:55How did you reconcile yourself with somebody who is obviously,
0:20:55 > 0:20:59- psychologically, a bit of a freak that lady was, must have been?- Yes.
0:20:59 > 0:21:03No, but that's fun. I've played that many times. No, it's a good part.
0:21:03 > 0:21:05Everything that's a good part is fun to do.
0:21:05 > 0:21:08And it's just, as I say, concentration
0:21:08 > 0:21:11and actors enjoy acting.
0:21:11 > 0:21:15It's up to the director to tell you how to start and how to get up.
0:21:15 > 0:21:20For instance in Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, Victor Fleming hit me.
0:21:20 > 0:21:24And he hit me and he shook me and he hit me again.
0:21:24 > 0:21:27And I knew he was doing it... I was angry with him for doing it,
0:21:27 > 0:21:30doing it in front of the whole crew, but at the same time,
0:21:30 > 0:21:33deep down in me, I knew he was doing it
0:21:33 > 0:21:36so that I would become hysterical and I was very grateful.
0:21:36 > 0:21:40So that's one way of getting a performance. It certainly worked.
0:21:40 > 0:21:42- I gave a very good performance! - Did you hit him back?
0:21:42 > 0:21:44No, I didn't. I kissed him.
0:21:44 > 0:21:48When did you realise he was doing it for therapeutic purposes?
0:21:48 > 0:21:51I think right away, but it was still shocking.
0:21:51 > 0:21:53Still, it helps you to shake you up.
0:21:53 > 0:21:57I very often ask my directors to do this!
0:21:57 > 0:22:00Have you been hit in a film since, by a director or...?
0:22:00 > 0:22:02No, I don't think so.
0:22:02 > 0:22:05'There was censorship in America, wasn't there?
0:22:05 > 0:22:08'The Hayes Office in the '40s was very hot on anybody doing anything.
0:22:08 > 0:22:11'Did you have trouble this way? Did you ever try to swing the law?'
0:22:11 > 0:22:13'We had trouble several times with these things.
0:22:15 > 0:22:20'For instance, if we take Notorious, Hitchcock was very clever
0:22:20 > 0:22:24'and invented a love scene, with a kiss,
0:22:24 > 0:22:26'that became famous in those days.'
0:22:26 > 0:22:29'Looking at it today, I mean, it's laughable
0:22:29 > 0:22:32'for what we see nowadays on the screen.
0:22:32 > 0:22:36'But a kiss couldn't last more than two seconds, I think it was.
0:22:36 > 0:22:42'It had to break, and it couldn't be in a horizontal position,
0:22:42 > 0:22:45'even with clothes on. It had to be sitting down or standing up.
0:22:45 > 0:22:50'And he invented this thing that they tried to cut, but he won,
0:22:50 > 0:22:52'because not one kiss was longer than two seconds,
0:22:52 > 0:22:55'but there were so many of them, you see. It looked like...
0:22:55 > 0:22:57'That became a very famous love scene.'
0:22:57 > 0:22:59- 'This is you and Cary Grant, in the film.'- 'Yes.'
0:22:59 > 0:23:02There's one thing, obviously, which talking to you, one can't,
0:23:02 > 0:23:05one doesn't want to put off very long, which is
0:23:05 > 0:23:08talk about Joan of Arc, which seems to be a focal part of your life.
0:23:08 > 0:23:12- Yes.- A key image. When did you first get interested in her
0:23:12 > 0:23:15and realise she was something special to you?
0:23:15 > 0:23:19When I was a child, I must have read about her in school.
0:23:19 > 0:23:22And then I started to collect books and read more and more.
0:23:22 > 0:23:26And then I started to collect medals and things, you know, instead of
0:23:26 > 0:23:29butterflies and stamps and things like that that children collect.
0:23:29 > 0:23:32I thought it was fun to collect Joan of Arcs.
0:23:32 > 0:23:37And, naturally, as a man wants to play Hamlet,
0:23:37 > 0:23:39a woman wants to play Joan of Arc.
0:23:39 > 0:23:43And it never came about in Sweden.
0:23:43 > 0:23:45There was not a chance of doing such a picture.
0:23:45 > 0:23:47It would have been far too expensive.
0:23:47 > 0:23:50And I waited and waited and talked to many people,
0:23:50 > 0:23:52and no-one was interested.
0:23:52 > 0:23:55And one day I got a telephone call from Maxwell Anderson,
0:23:55 > 0:23:57who called me and said,
0:23:57 > 0:23:59"I would like to have you for a play about Joan of Arc."
0:23:59 > 0:24:02I said, "That's it, you don't have to ask more. I'm coming!"
0:24:04 > 0:24:09- So I did my Joan of Arc.- This was a theatre play?- A theatre play.
0:24:09 > 0:24:12Of course, that became a big success, so, immediately,
0:24:12 > 0:24:15people were after the rights to do the movie.
0:24:15 > 0:24:16Perhaps there's no answer to this,
0:24:16 > 0:24:19but can you put your finger on that thing in Joan of Arc,
0:24:19 > 0:24:23which made her important to you for the whole of your life?
0:24:23 > 0:24:24'Her courage.'
0:24:25 > 0:24:28All I have done, I've done by the command of my Lord.
0:24:30 > 0:24:32That's all that I have done well.
0:24:32 > 0:24:36How do you know that your voices come from God?
0:24:36 > 0:24:40I knew that they came from God because what they commanded me to do was only good.
0:24:42 > 0:24:45My lords, I have answered these same questions at Poitiers.
0:24:45 > 0:24:49My King charged the Archbishop of Rheims, another loyal and learned
0:24:49 > 0:24:52priest, to examine me before I was allowed to lead his army.
0:24:52 > 0:24:55Send for the records at Poitiers and you shall have all my answers!
0:24:55 > 0:24:59The examination at Poitiers by the Archbishop of Rheims has no relevance.
0:24:59 > 0:25:02We are your judges now, and you must answer us.
0:25:02 > 0:25:05But you're not fitted to be my judges.
0:25:05 > 0:25:07STARTLED DISCUSSION
0:25:07 > 0:25:09You are my mortal enemies.
0:25:09 > 0:25:11English.
0:25:11 > 0:25:13And Burgundians.
0:25:13 > 0:25:15All of you!
0:25:17 > 0:25:19And you are not the Church!
0:25:19 > 0:25:23You are the men of the enemy king, whose orders you obey!
0:25:23 > 0:25:25If I am being tried by the Church,
0:25:25 > 0:25:28why am I not in a Church prison among women?
0:25:28 > 0:25:32I am in an English prison, guarded by English soldiers, chained to my bed.
0:25:32 > 0:25:36If I must rise for any purpose, I must ask guards to unlock the bonds.
0:25:36 > 0:25:40We, your judges, keep you chained because you attempted to escape.
0:25:40 > 0:25:43Isn't that the right of all prisoners of war, to try to escape?
0:25:47 > 0:25:49You say that you are my judges.
0:25:51 > 0:25:54I don't know if you are, but I say this.
0:25:56 > 0:25:58Take care not to judge me wrongly.
0:25:59 > 0:26:05For, in truth, I am sent by God and you place yourself in great danger.
0:26:05 > 0:26:06Take her back to her cell!
0:26:06 > 0:26:09Do you think the film worked as well as the stage version?
0:26:09 > 0:26:15Well, we did the absolute honest version that we could find.
0:26:15 > 0:26:19'We had a priest from France who had written books about Joan of Arc,
0:26:19 > 0:26:23'who was a great researcher, and he came and he was there.'
0:26:23 > 0:26:27'He read everything and gave us advice and looked at everything.
0:26:27 > 0:26:32'You can imagine how much I had read and how many books I had underlined.
0:26:32 > 0:26:37'And the picture, in America, had less success than in Europe.
0:26:37 > 0:26:41'But in Europe, Joan of Arc was considered a masterpiece.'
0:26:41 > 0:26:46'She must have been, to look at, a fairly scruffy, ordinary girl.'
0:26:46 > 0:26:51'She couldn't have possibly stood up to the hard life she had to lead
0:26:51 > 0:26:54'and carry the armour and all that if she hadn't been a strong girl.'
0:26:54 > 0:26:57- 'But the Hollywood picture of her is extremely small.'- 'Yes.
0:26:57 > 0:27:01'With colour and with all the combings of hair,
0:27:01 > 0:27:03'I think it should have been rough.
0:27:03 > 0:27:07'Everybody came up and smoothed it out, and it was very glossy.
0:27:07 > 0:27:08'Even the battle scenes.
0:27:08 > 0:27:12'They are beautiful, but not in the right sense.'
0:27:12 > 0:27:15Did you make an attempt to fight the people patting your hair?
0:27:15 > 0:27:19Yes. I usually waited until the director said action,
0:27:19 > 0:27:22and then I would shake my head like this. Sometimes I forgot.
0:27:22 > 0:27:25I had other things to think about.
0:27:25 > 0:27:30In 1980, Bergman made a return to the Parkinson programme,
0:27:30 > 0:27:32promoting the story of her life.
0:27:32 > 0:27:36It was a book she always swore she'd never write.
0:27:38 > 0:27:41APPLAUSE
0:27:41 > 0:27:44The last time I talked to you, you said that, in fact,
0:27:44 > 0:27:47you didn't think you would ever write your autobiography,
0:27:47 > 0:27:50and, in fact, you've been fighting the urge to do so
0:27:50 > 0:27:53or the temptation to do so for the past 20 years.
0:27:53 > 0:27:55Why have you now decided to do it?
0:27:55 > 0:27:59Well, I'll tell you first about Alan Burgess, who is out here somewhere.
0:27:59 > 0:28:04He's my co-author, because I didn't do this book alone.
0:28:04 > 0:28:06He wrote The Small Woman,
0:28:06 > 0:28:09which later became The Inn Of The Sixth Happiness.
0:28:09 > 0:28:11- That's Gladys Aylward, isn't it? - Yes, Gladys Aylward's story.
0:28:11 > 0:28:15And they couldn't call it The Small Woman, having me playing the part,
0:28:15 > 0:28:17so it was changed to The Inn of the Sixth Happiness.
0:28:17 > 0:28:22And he said then, which is 22 years ago, "Could I write your story?
0:28:22 > 0:28:25"I would like to write about an actress." I said, "Absolutely not.
0:28:25 > 0:28:30"Not me." And four years went by and he called up again and said,
0:28:30 > 0:28:34"Have you changed your mind?" And I said, "No." And so we continued.
0:28:36 > 0:28:41Now, one day I am on the phone again, and hung up after having said,
0:28:41 > 0:28:44"No, I am not going to write any memoirs.
0:28:44 > 0:28:47"Everybody else writes, but I'm not going to do it."
0:28:47 > 0:28:50And my son was there, and he said to me, "But do you realise,
0:28:50 > 0:28:55"when you're dead, people will throw themselves on your life story and
0:28:55 > 0:28:59they'll take information from gossip, from rumours, what people are saying?
0:28:59 > 0:29:04"And how the story is this big and it becomes bigger and bigger.
0:29:04 > 0:29:07"And we, your children, can't defend you,
0:29:07 > 0:29:10"because we don't know the truth."
0:29:10 > 0:29:15That made me sit down and think very carefully, because I know that after
0:29:15 > 0:29:20you're dead, they write an awful lot of things about you that's not true.
0:29:20 > 0:29:23I mean, there are interviews, people say, "You have said that,"
0:29:23 > 0:29:26you didn't say that. There are certain things that are invented.
0:29:26 > 0:29:30Alan Burgess called me and I said, "Are you calling about the book?"
0:29:30 > 0:29:34And he said, "No, after 20 years, I've given up.
0:29:34 > 0:29:36And I said, "Now you can do it." LAUGHTER
0:29:36 > 0:29:39So we started. That's three years ago.
0:29:39 > 0:29:42Ingrid, can I finally ask you - writing as closely as you have
0:29:42 > 0:29:45and in as detailed a fashion about your life involves looking
0:29:45 > 0:29:49right back at yourself and thinking about every aspect of your life,
0:29:49 > 0:29:53is there any part of your life that you'd have lived differently,
0:29:53 > 0:29:54given the chance?
0:29:54 > 0:29:59Yes, I'm sure if I had known then what I know now,
0:29:59 > 0:30:04I would have been grateful. I could've changed many things.
0:30:04 > 0:30:07But there we are. We don't know better.
0:30:07 > 0:30:10I did what I thought was right.
0:30:10 > 0:30:14I know that when I came back to New York after about nine,
0:30:14 > 0:30:18ten years of absence, and I knew the press was after me
0:30:18 > 0:30:20and I came alone to face them again,
0:30:20 > 0:30:25I had one day in New York to receive the New York Critics Award.
0:30:25 > 0:30:30It was the press, television, radio and then the big party at night,
0:30:30 > 0:30:33and then off back to Paris, where I was playing.
0:30:33 > 0:30:35I was in a play in Paris.
0:30:35 > 0:30:38I had only one day to go to New York
0:30:38 > 0:30:40and then back and pick up the play again.
0:30:42 > 0:30:45I didn't ask my daughter to come to New York,
0:30:45 > 0:30:49because I couldn't bear to see her after so many years.
0:30:49 > 0:30:52I hadn't seen her then for about five years.
0:30:52 > 0:30:56I couldn't stand to see her with all the photographers
0:30:56 > 0:30:59and all the press, so I asked her not to come.
0:30:59 > 0:31:03I think she's had a very hard time to understand why.
0:31:03 > 0:31:06But that was the only thing you'd have changed?
0:31:06 > 0:31:09Yes, I wish I had been a little more discreet.
0:31:09 > 0:31:12I could have done things, maybe, a little less...
0:31:14 > 0:31:16I mean, I'm very open, I'm very frank,
0:31:16 > 0:31:19and sometimes that's stupid, you know?
0:31:19 > 0:31:22It's better if you hide a little more,
0:31:22 > 0:31:27but that's a little bit of hypocrisy, and I don't have that in me either.
0:31:27 > 0:31:30Two years after that interview, in 1982,
0:31:30 > 0:31:35Bergman died in London on her 67th birthday.
0:31:35 > 0:31:38She had been fighting an eight-year battle with breast cancer,
0:31:38 > 0:31:40but had carried on acting to the end,
0:31:40 > 0:31:45winning an Emmy Award and a Golden Globe that year for her final role
0:31:45 > 0:31:48in the television film, A Woman Called Golda.
0:31:49 > 0:31:52The obituary writers said,
0:31:52 > 0:31:55"She'll always be remembered as an icon of the cinema
0:31:55 > 0:32:00"for her poise and beauty and for her three Oscar wins.
0:32:00 > 0:32:04"And not least for the film she didn't win an Oscar for -
0:32:04 > 0:32:06"Casablanca."
0:32:16 > 0:32:20Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd