0:00:16 > 0:00:18Like strawberries and cream,
0:00:18 > 0:00:23Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers were a perfect pairing.
0:00:23 > 0:00:25The greatest dancing partnership
0:00:25 > 0:00:27cinema has ever known.
0:00:27 > 0:00:32They worked their magic through ten films made in the 1930s and '40s,
0:00:32 > 0:00:37first coming together for the 1933 film Flying Down To Rio.
0:00:37 > 0:00:39They weren't the main stars,
0:00:39 > 0:00:42and Rogers was only cast at the last moment.
0:00:42 > 0:00:46Their scenes together stole the entire movie,
0:00:46 > 0:00:50and studio bosses realised they had struck gold.
0:00:50 > 0:00:55Astaire was the ultimate dancer. Rogers brought out the best in him.
0:00:55 > 0:00:57Katharine Hepburn once said,
0:00:57 > 0:01:02"He gives class, she gives him sex appeal."
0:01:03 > 0:01:06Both scored massive successes on their own.
0:01:06 > 0:01:09Astaire was an icon of entertainment,
0:01:09 > 0:01:12respected for being a dance innovator.
0:01:12 > 0:01:18Ginger Rogers won the best actress Oscar in 1941 for her role,
0:01:18 > 0:01:21her straight role, in Kitty Foyle.
0:01:22 > 0:01:27And, for a time, she became Hollywood's highest-paid star.
0:01:27 > 0:01:31In truth, they were wary of being forever looked on as a double act,
0:01:31 > 0:01:35and although Rogers once said she adored Astaire,
0:01:35 > 0:01:40she also conceded they were never bosom buddies.
0:01:40 > 0:01:43The American public fell in love with them,
0:01:43 > 0:01:48with many believing they were a couple off-screen as well as on.
0:01:49 > 0:01:52The pair were never interviewed together on British television,
0:01:52 > 0:01:55so we start with an encounter between Ginger Rogers
0:01:55 > 0:01:59and Cliff Michelmore from 1968,
0:01:59 > 0:02:04which took place at her home in Coldwater Canyon, Los Angeles.
0:02:05 > 0:02:08They tell me you fix the best ice cream soda in Beverly Hills,
0:02:08 > 0:02:11- is that right? - Do you want an ice cream soda?- Yeah.
0:02:11 > 0:02:13You really want an ice cream soda?
0:02:13 > 0:02:14They told me you fix the best one in...
0:02:14 > 0:02:17Funny thing, I just happen to have one almost ready for you!
0:02:17 > 0:02:20- With chocolate?- Huh?- With chocolate? - With chocolate, all right,
0:02:20 > 0:02:23coming up. Chocolate.
0:02:23 > 0:02:26And I want you to know that this will cost you about 15 cents,
0:02:26 > 0:02:30and if you get this down in the city of Beverly Hills,
0:02:30 > 0:02:32you would pay 65 to 85 cents for it,
0:02:32 > 0:02:35and I want you to leave your money here
0:02:35 > 0:02:37at the counter before you leave.
0:02:37 > 0:02:39- Or I'll take just a smile, how's that?- Will you?!
0:02:39 > 0:02:41- There we go.- That's cheap!
0:02:41 > 0:02:42- I do like lots of this... - Lots of that.
0:02:42 > 0:02:45- Lots of Seltzer water, all right. - I absolutely adore that.
0:02:45 > 0:02:47Here we go. Here we go.
0:02:47 > 0:02:49That's the bit I like.
0:02:49 > 0:02:52- Isn't that lovely? - I'd love one of those at home.
0:02:52 > 0:02:54What would the children do with that at home?
0:02:54 > 0:02:57And there you go, and here is a little straw,
0:02:57 > 0:02:59and if it doesn't have enough chocolate in it...
0:02:59 > 0:03:01I like lots of chocolate,
0:03:01 > 0:03:04but I'm also afraid to put too much in it, because I love chocolate.
0:03:04 > 0:03:06It's so hot outside that I think I want to get cool
0:03:06 > 0:03:09- before we go outside. - I don't blame you!
0:03:09 > 0:03:11SHE LAUGHS
0:03:11 > 0:03:13- Chocolate enough? How's that?- That's gorgeous.
0:03:13 > 0:03:16- Is that gorgeous?- Yeah.
0:03:16 > 0:03:18She was christened Virginia Katherine,
0:03:18 > 0:03:21but that was too much of a name for her cousin,
0:03:21 > 0:03:23who called her just "Ginger."
0:03:23 > 0:03:25She was born in Independence, Missouri,
0:03:25 > 0:03:28and she always seemed destined for the stage.
0:03:28 > 0:03:31At the age of four she was playing the part of a war orphan.
0:03:31 > 0:03:34At 16, she won the Texas State Charleston championship,
0:03:34 > 0:03:38and it was then that her career really began.
0:03:38 > 0:03:40Her mother, Lela, journalist and screenwriter,
0:03:40 > 0:03:43became her first full-time manager,
0:03:43 > 0:03:46guiding and guarding those early days.
0:03:46 > 0:03:49In 1930, Ginger Rogers was on Broadway,
0:03:49 > 0:03:51in the Gershwin musical Girl Crazy.
0:03:51 > 0:03:53That was September 1930,
0:03:53 > 0:03:56and it was from this success that she went on to Hollywood.
0:03:56 > 0:04:0145 films later, she won an Oscar for the title role in Kitty Foyle.
0:04:01 > 0:04:05Another 28 films later she was back again on the Broadway stage,
0:04:05 > 0:04:07this time in Hello, Dolly!
0:04:07 > 0:04:10And now she's moving across from the New York to the London stage,
0:04:10 > 0:04:12from Dolly to Mame.
0:04:12 > 0:04:16It's been a long, distinguished and successful career,
0:04:16 > 0:04:19but how tough was the going along the way?
0:04:19 > 0:04:22I have come from a very hard school.
0:04:22 > 0:04:26I've had to work very hard for what has come to me.
0:04:26 > 0:04:31If I got a part in a film, it was always a very difficult role.
0:04:31 > 0:04:35If I've had a dance to do, it's always been a very hard one to do.
0:04:35 > 0:04:38I thought so, and other people have thought so too.
0:04:38 > 0:04:46Um...it has not been dropped in my lap like a handful of gold, no.
0:04:46 > 0:04:50I come from the hard school of learning, in this business.
0:04:50 > 0:04:52You were mentioning earlier on
0:04:52 > 0:04:55that your mother handled a great deal of your business.
0:04:55 > 0:04:57Are you also a good businesswoman now?
0:04:57 > 0:05:02Well, I think so. I think I'm a fairly good businesswoman.
0:05:02 > 0:05:03I, um...
0:05:03 > 0:05:08My business is really my work, and outside of having
0:05:08 > 0:05:12a number of hobbies which I have to pass the time away, I...
0:05:12 > 0:05:15My work is really acting.
0:05:15 > 0:05:17- I enjoy it. - What does money mean to you?
0:05:17 > 0:05:20I mean, you're enormously successful...
0:05:20 > 0:05:26It's a means by which one may fulfil one's next desire or obligation.
0:05:26 > 0:05:28In the good sense.
0:05:28 > 0:05:32I never have wanted to be the richest woman in the world,
0:05:32 > 0:05:35never have wanted it. And, um...
0:05:36 > 0:05:39I've never wanted to be married to the richest man
0:05:39 > 0:05:42in the world, I've never had any of those great...
0:05:42 > 0:05:45I've never wanted to have the greatest, most beautiful car
0:05:45 > 0:05:49in the world. I don't want material things.
0:05:49 > 0:05:52I want those things that are needful in life,
0:05:52 > 0:05:55but not necessarily the most valuable thing
0:05:55 > 0:05:58according to dollars and cents.
0:05:58 > 0:06:01- Does that answer your question? - That answers it absolutely perfectly.
0:06:01 > 0:06:04You don't surprise me, in some ways.
0:06:04 > 0:06:08But now, I want to come to the fact
0:06:08 > 0:06:11that you are a legend in your own time.
0:06:11 > 0:06:14You will know that so many people remember you
0:06:14 > 0:06:18for the one great thing - if for nothing else,
0:06:18 > 0:06:21and this must please you no end - and that is this tremendous partnership
0:06:21 > 0:06:24that you had with Fred Astaire.
0:07:34 > 0:07:36Woo!
0:07:41 > 0:07:44# I didn't come to do the Charleston
0:07:44 > 0:07:46# I didn't come to Ball the Jack
0:07:46 > 0:07:48# I didn't come to do The Suzy-Q
0:07:48 > 0:07:50# Or do the Bottom they call Black
0:07:50 > 0:07:52# I didn't come to do Big Apple
0:07:52 > 0:07:55# I didn't come to do the Shag
0:07:55 > 0:07:56# Well, honey, here I am
0:07:56 > 0:07:58# To do the Yam
0:07:58 > 0:07:59# Because the Yam is in the bag... #
0:08:00 > 0:08:03DRUM SOLO
0:08:09 > 0:08:11BAND RESUMES
0:09:09 > 0:09:11- Did you enjoy working with Fred Astaire?- Very much.
0:09:11 > 0:09:15- Because he, like you, is a consummate professional.- Oh-ho!
0:09:15 > 0:09:19You're talking about - yes, sir, when you see a workman,
0:09:19 > 0:09:22you see Mr Astaire, you say, "Is he hard to work with?
0:09:22 > 0:09:26"Am I hard to work with?" If you like people who like their work,
0:09:26 > 0:09:30and who work at their work, then we're hard workmen.
0:09:30 > 0:09:32He is, I am.
0:09:32 > 0:09:34And we're very definite about what we like and what we dislike.
0:09:34 > 0:09:37And if that's considered hard to work with,
0:09:37 > 0:09:39then you've got the answer to your question.
0:09:39 > 0:09:42Have you ever even danced a dozen steps with him
0:09:42 > 0:09:44since the last film you've made?
0:09:44 > 0:09:46- Yes.- Have you?- Yes, yes.
0:09:46 > 0:09:48The last film we made was The Barkleys of Broadway,
0:09:48 > 0:09:50and it was made at MGM, in colour -
0:09:50 > 0:09:52it was the first colour film we ever made.
0:09:52 > 0:09:57Then, we... We've seen each other quite frequently, um...
0:09:58 > 0:10:03The time that we danced together for one brief minute
0:10:03 > 0:10:06was the Academy Award. Didn't it play in London?
0:10:06 > 0:10:08- A film of it?- When you and...
0:10:08 > 0:10:11- Fred and I...- ..Fred Astaire presented the prizes.- Yes.
0:10:11 > 0:10:14- Did it play there?- No, it didn't. Tell me what happened.
0:10:14 > 0:10:18Well, we got on the stage, backstage, waiting for the...
0:10:18 > 0:10:21Because we had been chosen to, both of us, present an award together.
0:10:21 > 0:10:24- This I remember.- At the Academy.
0:10:24 > 0:10:27So, they came to me and said,
0:10:27 > 0:10:29"I think you'll be on in about 45 minutes,"
0:10:29 > 0:10:31and I said, "Well, where is Mr Astaire?" And they said,
0:10:31 > 0:10:33"Well, he'll be around here in a minute."
0:10:33 > 0:10:34So, he came around and I said,
0:10:34 > 0:10:36"Wouldn't it be fun if we went on the stage,
0:10:36 > 0:10:38"wouldn't that just be great,
0:10:38 > 0:10:41"if you and I just did a little something, da-da-da, like that,
0:10:41 > 0:10:42"and walked up to the...?"
0:10:42 > 0:10:45And he was... He's very shy, Fred is very shy,
0:10:45 > 0:10:49and everything from the very beginning is, "No, I don't think so,
0:10:49 > 0:10:52"I don't think so," that's Fred, "No, no..."
0:10:52 > 0:10:55So, I said, "Well, OK, I just thought it was a good idea."
0:10:55 > 0:10:58And then he walked away and he went across the stage,
0:10:58 > 0:10:59and the music was playing,
0:10:59 > 0:11:03and I could hear the time was coming close to our appearance together.
0:11:03 > 0:11:05And we were supposed to come...
0:11:05 > 0:11:06He was on the one stage,
0:11:06 > 0:11:08he was stage left and I was stage right,
0:11:08 > 0:11:10we were to cross each other,
0:11:10 > 0:11:12grab our hands and walk straight down to the podium.
0:11:12 > 0:11:14So, as...
0:11:14 > 0:11:17About three minutes before, he came in and he said, "You know,
0:11:17 > 0:11:19"I've thought that over, that might be kind of fun,
0:11:19 > 0:11:21"really, it might be." He said, "What do we do?"
0:11:21 > 0:11:24I said, "Well, I don't know, what do you say?
0:11:24 > 0:11:26"What do we do?"
0:11:26 > 0:11:28It was fun, it was kind of like, er,
0:11:28 > 0:11:31a big secret we were having together.
0:11:31 > 0:11:34So, we worked out a little kind of nothing - he'd grab me by the hand
0:11:34 > 0:11:38and whirl me, and then we'd just walk right down to the podium.
0:11:38 > 0:11:41Well, we did just that when it came, because no-one had known,
0:11:41 > 0:11:44the producer, the director, none - no-one in the whole place knew
0:11:44 > 0:11:47that we were going to do this silly thing.
0:11:47 > 0:11:50So as we - he came stage left and I came stage right,
0:11:50 > 0:11:53we crossed each other, and he grabbed me by the hand,
0:11:53 > 0:11:55and he whirled me into a whirl, and we both went into a whirl,
0:11:55 > 0:11:57and then quietly we walked onto the podium.
0:11:57 > 0:12:01- Well, the house just came down. - I bet it did!
0:12:01 > 0:12:03They were so adorable to us.
0:12:03 > 0:12:07- It was a lovely minute. I enjoyed it more than anybody.- Did you?- Yeah.
0:12:07 > 0:12:09Was it a very tough life?
0:12:09 > 0:12:14One always sees it in Hollywood films,
0:12:14 > 0:12:16when everyone reads about it, one always reads
0:12:16 > 0:12:20that it was a very hard, tough life going around America.
0:12:20 > 0:12:25Well, I think the stage life is a very hard life, I don't know...
0:12:25 > 0:12:28There are many tough lives for people, like...
0:12:28 > 0:12:32the fight ring, I imagine, is a very tough life for a man.
0:12:32 > 0:12:33I think the stage
0:12:33 > 0:12:36and the theatrical life is a very tough life for a woman.
0:12:36 > 0:12:39I think it's not quite as difficult for a man.
0:12:39 > 0:12:41When were you first asked to come to Hollywood?
0:12:41 > 0:12:43Do you remember how it happened?
0:12:43 > 0:12:46- When I first came to Hollywood? - Yeah.
0:12:46 > 0:12:48OK, I came to Hollywood to do a film
0:12:48 > 0:12:51after I'd been in a show in New York.
0:12:51 > 0:12:56A motion picture called The Tip Off, I believe it was.
0:12:56 > 0:12:58And, um...
0:12:58 > 0:13:01After I had been in a musical comedy in New York,
0:13:01 > 0:13:04a musical comedy called Girl Crazy.
0:13:04 > 0:13:06So, I came from there,
0:13:06 > 0:13:10I made five pictures in New York, and then I came here,
0:13:10 > 0:13:12and did two pictures independently.
0:13:12 > 0:13:15I'd been under contract to Paramount before that,
0:13:15 > 0:13:18while I was in the show in New York.
0:13:18 > 0:13:20But um...
0:13:20 > 0:13:22my coming here was kind of eye-opening,
0:13:22 > 0:13:25because I had never seen all these beautiful things,
0:13:25 > 0:13:28this marvellous California was unlike Texas,
0:13:28 > 0:13:29where I had been raised,
0:13:29 > 0:13:33and it was unlike a number of the other states that...
0:13:33 > 0:13:36Like, New York State is not half as beautiful this.
0:13:36 > 0:13:38- Quite unlike New York. - Quite unlike New York,
0:13:38 > 0:13:41and they don't see snow, unless you go to the mountaintops.
0:13:41 > 0:13:46But my first films here,
0:13:46 > 0:13:49I was just a...
0:13:49 > 0:13:53You know, I'd just left my teens, and I was... It was all kind of...
0:13:53 > 0:13:56I was big-eyed and bushy-tailed about - "What's all this about?"
0:13:56 > 0:14:00- You see. I found out. - HE LAUGHS
0:14:00 > 0:14:03- Very interesting life. - Very interesting!
0:14:03 > 0:14:07What was it like in those - in the mid-'30s here in Hollywood?
0:14:07 > 0:14:10I mean, one coming here now can't really imagine it.
0:14:10 > 0:14:14I go around, and I can't really imagine what it was like.
0:14:14 > 0:14:18Well, I think - I think they called it, quite accurately,
0:14:18 > 0:14:21the golden years of motion pictures, because it seems to me,
0:14:21 > 0:14:26from what little I have known of what has gone on before...
0:14:26 > 0:14:28- SHE CLEARS HER THROAT - Excuse me.
0:14:28 > 0:14:29It seems to me
0:14:29 > 0:14:33that it was rather the lush years of the motion picture business.
0:14:33 > 0:14:34And, um...
0:14:34 > 0:14:36I'm very grateful to have seen those days,
0:14:36 > 0:14:40because they were quite beautiful, they, um...
0:14:40 > 0:14:44There were lovely parties given, and, er...
0:14:44 > 0:14:48all of the people I had ever heard of were present, and...
0:14:48 > 0:14:51Like Charlie Chaplin and Ronald Colman,
0:14:51 > 0:14:55and, er...all of these marvellously wonderful people.
0:14:55 > 0:14:58- Were you a bit star-struck, then? I gather...- Actually, no.- Weren't you?
0:14:58 > 0:15:01I've never... No, but I'd, like...
0:15:01 > 0:15:05Like watching a circus, I sit back and enjoy it.
0:15:05 > 0:15:07I don't go to the circus because I'm mad for it,
0:15:07 > 0:15:10but if it comes to my house I think it's fun.
0:15:10 > 0:15:13You were talking about these parties - are you a social creature?
0:15:13 > 0:15:15No. I am not.
0:15:15 > 0:15:17I am not a social creature at all.
0:15:17 > 0:15:20But, as I said earlier, in our discussion, I came here
0:15:20 > 0:15:25when I was quite tender in years, and I was impressed by the...
0:15:25 > 0:15:27By being, just being, in California.
0:15:27 > 0:15:31I was very impressed by the whole thing.
0:15:31 > 0:15:35And I was impressed that I was learning a profession, too,
0:15:35 > 0:15:36don't forget.
0:15:36 > 0:15:39I was learning something all along the way,
0:15:39 > 0:15:44I was learning more about what I was involved in, motion pictures.
0:15:44 > 0:15:47And I think it's the most fascinating business.
0:15:47 > 0:15:50How strong an influence on you was your mother?
0:15:50 > 0:15:55Because I was reading about you, I was reading your mother as well...
0:15:55 > 0:15:57- Yes, uh-huh.- Now, how much of an influence was she?
0:15:57 > 0:16:00Well, I think she was little more than usual, and, er...
0:16:00 > 0:16:02incidentally, she's arriving here in California today,
0:16:02 > 0:16:05she's just driving down from my ranch in Oregon,
0:16:05 > 0:16:08she's arriving here today, so I'll be very happy to see her.
0:16:08 > 0:16:11I must say, that's something I like dropped into a conversation -
0:16:11 > 0:16:13"On my way from my ranch in Oregon."
0:16:13 > 0:16:15- Well, she is!- Sorry, I interrupted you about you mother.
0:16:15 > 0:16:18She's driving down today.
0:16:18 > 0:16:20She's been a very great influence on my life,
0:16:20 > 0:16:24because her directness - she goes right to the heart of the matter,
0:16:24 > 0:16:26and she's taught me that.
0:16:26 > 0:16:28And, um...
0:16:28 > 0:16:30Up until those times when I was not able,
0:16:30 > 0:16:34when I was not really involved in business,
0:16:34 > 0:16:39she would handle all the business affairs for me, and, um...
0:16:39 > 0:16:42From her I've gotten a great deal of those things
0:16:42 > 0:16:44which are worthwhile in life.
0:16:44 > 0:16:46Theatrical mums, theatrical mothers, are always
0:16:46 > 0:16:50sort of portrayed as people who are driving their little daughters on...
0:16:50 > 0:16:52Yes, this is not this kind of mother.
0:16:52 > 0:16:55If you knew her, and I hope you'll get a chance to meet her today,
0:16:55 > 0:16:59you will see that she's not that kind of a woman at all,
0:16:59 > 0:17:05she's a bright, very alert woman, um...
0:17:05 > 0:17:06knows picture business
0:17:06 > 0:17:10and show business as if she manufactured it herself, you know?
0:17:10 > 0:17:15And she has given great inspiration and great hope,
0:17:15 > 0:17:19and taught many people who are now very important in our business.
0:17:19 > 0:17:21- Lucille Ball...- Did she?
0:17:21 > 0:17:24..she had Lucille in her little school over at RKO,
0:17:24 > 0:17:29she had Lucille Ball, and Tyrone Power, and I could sit...
0:17:29 > 0:17:32- I'm very bad at names, and I never remember them!- Those two will do!
0:17:32 > 0:17:33They're quite good, you know?!
0:17:33 > 0:17:35It's a quite good group, you know?
0:17:35 > 0:17:37That's bad for not even name-dropping, isn't it?
0:17:37 > 0:17:41And she's done a great deal in bringing some of the newcomers
0:17:41 > 0:17:47at that time, who are now well-seasoned stars, to the fore.
0:17:47 > 0:17:50Fought for Lucille like she was her own child.
0:17:50 > 0:17:53But you never, ever felt in your life like she was really driving you,
0:17:53 > 0:17:57- personally on?- No.- That she was...? - No, no, no.
0:17:57 > 0:18:00She was not that - and is not that kind of a woman. No, no, no.
0:18:00 > 0:18:04She is very direct, and she's to the point,
0:18:04 > 0:18:08and if she felt I didn't have the talent to do what was
0:18:08 > 0:18:11meant for me to do, she would grab me by the scruff of my neck
0:18:11 > 0:18:15and out I would go, and she would find something to fill that place.
0:18:15 > 0:18:19- And, er...- Are you amenable to that kind of discipline?
0:18:19 > 0:18:22Well, I think if you have some respect for the person,
0:18:22 > 0:18:25the person who is bringing this into your experience,
0:18:25 > 0:18:30you either follow it or you fall by the wayside.
0:18:30 > 0:18:32You have to respect someone with knowledge.
0:18:32 > 0:18:35Finally, before you go, I want to ask you about your painting,
0:18:35 > 0:18:37because this is something... What do you find...?
0:18:37 > 0:18:40What do you get out of your painting?
0:18:40 > 0:18:43Well, I think it's the most satisfying experience to be
0:18:43 > 0:18:49an amateur painter, because you lose the world, you lose all of the...
0:18:49 > 0:18:55little itsy-bitsies that trouble us all, you know, now and then,
0:18:55 > 0:18:57and you can just put it all behind you.
0:18:57 > 0:19:00I enjoy thoroughly... It's like listening to a symphony for me,
0:19:00 > 0:19:05to be able to take a canvas and put fresh oil on it,
0:19:05 > 0:19:07and then start just...
0:19:07 > 0:19:12- Of course, I do a lot of things with the knife, as we call it!- Yep.
0:19:12 > 0:19:15The, er... With the knife.
0:19:15 > 0:19:18And I... My little painting down in the front, there,
0:19:18 > 0:19:21called The Anniversary Bouquet, which I'd like to show you,
0:19:21 > 0:19:23incidentally, is all done in knife,
0:19:23 > 0:19:27and it's a still life of some...anthurium.
0:19:27 > 0:19:30So...what do I get out of it?
0:19:30 > 0:19:34I just absolutely adore it, I can lose days and weeks,
0:19:34 > 0:19:38if I were allowed to paint, and paint alone.
0:19:38 > 0:19:40I would - day and night would be the same, with me.
0:19:40 > 0:19:42Just put a little food under the door.
0:19:42 > 0:19:47It wasn't till the 1970s that Ginger's onscreen partner,
0:19:47 > 0:19:50Fred Astaire, gave an interview to the BBC.
0:19:50 > 0:19:55Although in his 70s himself by then, he was still working.
0:19:55 > 0:19:58Nominated for an Oscar for the Towering Inferno film,
0:19:58 > 0:20:01appearing with Gene Kelly in That's Entertainment 2,
0:20:01 > 0:20:03and dropping in on Michael Parkinson,
0:20:03 > 0:20:08who had Astaire at the top of his wish list for years.
0:20:09 > 0:20:12APPLAUSE
0:20:13 > 0:20:17- Thank you.- I think I must establish first of all, Fred,
0:20:17 > 0:20:18because I do happen to know,
0:20:18 > 0:20:21you don't like being interviewed, do you?
0:20:21 > 0:20:22Well, er...
0:20:22 > 0:20:24With you, I love it.
0:20:24 > 0:20:27You know, I mean, I'm sure I will.
0:20:27 > 0:20:28I will, I will.
0:20:28 > 0:20:30But you once had a reputation in America, didn't you?
0:20:30 > 0:20:34You were once nominated, I think, by the gossip columnists
0:20:34 > 0:20:37- among the ten least cooperative stars in Hollywood.- Yes.
0:20:37 > 0:20:42Yes, I was, and several people were very envious of me for that.
0:20:42 > 0:20:45I remember Ronald Colman was furious, because he wanted to be first.
0:20:45 > 0:20:46LAUGHTER
0:20:46 > 0:20:48And, um...of course, that goes way, way back.
0:20:48 > 0:20:52But it was all in fun, anyway, because...there was nothing,
0:20:52 > 0:20:54you know, all those things you read in the paper,
0:20:54 > 0:20:56and they sound a little rough, but they're not.
0:20:56 > 0:20:57- No.- They're not rough.
0:20:57 > 0:20:59I was interested, also, in reading your biography,
0:20:59 > 0:21:02to find out that in fact your sister Adele had a nickname for you,
0:21:02 > 0:21:04which was Moaning Minnie.
0:21:04 > 0:21:05LAUGHTER
0:21:05 > 0:21:08Well, I know that, but she wasn't the only one,
0:21:08 > 0:21:11it was some friends of mine, some fellows, some friends of mine
0:21:11 > 0:21:14who called me it, because I was worried about things all the time.
0:21:14 > 0:21:18Whenever there's a job to do in showbiz, you worry about it.
0:21:18 > 0:21:20And they used to kid me about it. So...
0:21:21 > 0:21:24I got used to that, that was so long ago,
0:21:24 > 0:21:26I've... I haven't heard that one for a long time!
0:21:26 > 0:21:28How long, in fact, have you been in show business?
0:21:28 > 0:21:31HE GASPS Well, um...
0:21:31 > 0:21:35You mean, how long I actually have...? Well, I'll tell you.
0:21:35 > 0:21:39See, I started at the age of four and a half,
0:21:39 > 0:21:43appearing professionally, and if you add that up...
0:21:43 > 0:21:49to now, I have been performing professionally for 71 years!
0:21:49 > 0:21:52- 71! - APPLAUSE
0:21:53 > 0:21:54Well, how nice.
0:21:57 > 0:22:03Thank you, I... I didn't say it for that purpose, thank you so much.
0:22:03 > 0:22:07I, um...it broke me up when I thought about it. "Oh, my gosh!
0:22:07 > 0:22:08"This can't be."
0:22:08 > 0:22:10But it is actually so.
0:22:10 > 0:22:16I was born in 1899, and then at four and a half I went to New York,
0:22:16 > 0:22:19and...
0:22:19 > 0:22:21No, I appeared at about four and a half,
0:22:21 > 0:22:23but I went to New York when I was about four,
0:22:23 > 0:22:26and then there was some kind of a professional appearance
0:22:26 > 0:22:28that occurred around that time,
0:22:28 > 0:22:31so I added it all up and that's what it is.
0:22:31 > 0:22:32I interviewed Bing Crosby recently,
0:22:32 > 0:22:35and he thought he was a veteran, and it'd only been 50 years.
0:22:35 > 0:22:37Oh, he's such a child, for heaven's sake!
0:22:37 > 0:22:39It's ridiculous.
0:22:39 > 0:22:41In fact, I mean, you were quite old, weren't you,
0:22:41 > 0:22:44by professional standards, when you went in to the movies?
0:22:44 > 0:22:47- You were 34, weren't you? Something like that.- Well, I... Yeah.
0:22:47 > 0:22:51It was in 1933, and that made me 34.
0:22:51 > 0:22:54One thinks of... Oh, you can think of half a dozen, more perhaps,
0:22:54 > 0:22:59outstanding solo routines that you've done in movies,
0:22:59 > 0:23:02doing all kinds of things with different props and things.
0:23:02 > 0:23:06What about one of my favourite sequences of yours,
0:23:06 > 0:23:07from a film called Carefree,
0:23:07 > 0:23:10which is the one where you hit the golf balls,
0:23:10 > 0:23:12I mean, it was an astonishing bit of precision.
0:23:12 > 0:23:15Before we talk about that, before we explain it, let's have a look.
0:23:15 > 0:23:16We've got a clip here.
0:23:16 > 0:23:21As I say, it's from a film called Carefree, and it really is
0:23:21 > 0:23:25an extraordinary piece of, well, imagination and execution.
0:23:25 > 0:23:26It's coming up now.
0:25:05 > 0:25:07APPLAUSE
0:25:11 > 0:25:16- That was incredible. - I really loved doing that number.
0:25:16 > 0:25:18Had a lot of practice at it.
0:25:18 > 0:25:21One of the things I remember particularly was,
0:25:21 > 0:25:25in order to keep the balls in view of the camera, we had a tree,
0:25:25 > 0:25:29the location we did this, there was a tree, a big tree background
0:25:29 > 0:25:31so you could see those little white balls.
0:25:31 > 0:25:34Some people thought it was done with trickery, and it wasn't,
0:25:34 > 0:25:37but I was hitting them and they were going straight,
0:25:37 > 0:25:40but they were going up a little too quick
0:25:40 > 0:25:44and out of the camera lens thing, so the camera guy would say,
0:25:44 > 0:25:47"Can't you keep those a little lower, please?"
0:25:47 > 0:25:50I said, "Look, I've got enough troubles here!"
0:25:50 > 0:25:51LAUGHTER
0:25:51 > 0:25:55So anyway, I flatten my swing and I kept them down and it worked.
0:25:55 > 0:25:59Anyway, I enjoyed it. I'm glad you liked it, thanks very much.
0:25:59 > 0:26:00It was super, yeah.
0:26:00 > 0:26:03A lot of these numbers that you danced for these people
0:26:03 > 0:26:08who wrote them, you were dressed up in what became your trademark -
0:26:08 > 0:26:10the top hat, the white tie and tails.
0:26:10 > 0:26:12Two questions. How much is that really you?
0:26:14 > 0:26:18Oh, I don't like wearing a full dress suit, I hate it.
0:26:18 > 0:26:22I had so much of it that people thought I was born in it.
0:26:22 > 0:26:24LAUGHTER
0:26:25 > 0:26:29But it was necessary for the thing we were doing at that point.
0:26:29 > 0:26:36I actually haven't worn it anywhere in a film for quite a long time.
0:26:38 > 0:26:41I had to wear it to a couple of shindigs I went to recently,
0:26:41 > 0:26:43but I just don't like it.
0:26:43 > 0:26:45It's stiff and, you know...
0:26:46 > 0:26:50- It made you dance very well. - I worked for that.
0:26:50 > 0:26:52We've got a clip here, let's have a look at it.
0:26:52 > 0:26:55Probably the last time that you appeared onscreen in that rig,
0:26:55 > 0:26:57and that was in Blue Skies.
0:26:57 > 0:27:00Well, that isn't a full dress suit, the one you're talking about.
0:27:00 > 0:27:01- It's a tail...- Let's have a look.
0:29:37 > 0:29:40SPEECH DROWNED BY APPLAUSE
0:29:48 > 0:29:52- Did you enjoy watching that?- Well, it interests me to see it again.
0:29:52 > 0:29:56I haven't seen it lately, and, I mean, I know it's there,
0:29:56 > 0:30:00because I always remember it, it was very complicated to get it
0:30:00 > 0:30:03together, all the stuff, the screens, the separate screens.
0:30:03 > 0:30:08I did one thing alone and then you changed the set
0:30:08 > 0:30:11so one line would go this way. That was another shot.
0:30:11 > 0:30:13Then the other line would go that way -
0:30:13 > 0:30:16- in other words, a multiple amount of...- Of you.
0:30:16 > 0:30:21Yes, of split screens put all together. A very complicated process.
0:30:21 > 0:30:23It wasn't all ready to look finished
0:30:23 > 0:30:25until about three months after it was made,
0:30:25 > 0:30:28and I was very interested to know how they would ever get it together,
0:30:28 > 0:30:33how a wonderful department of special effects could get that
0:30:33 > 0:30:35all synced properly - that's what I worried about.
0:30:35 > 0:30:38You knock the hell out of your canes, don't you?
0:30:38 > 0:30:39Oh, I've broken a lot of them.
0:30:39 > 0:30:41LAUGHTER
0:30:41 > 0:30:42Sometimes on purpose,
0:30:42 > 0:30:46I got mad because I wasn't getting something and I was trying to get it.
0:30:48 > 0:30:51Another slight technical thing that always puzzled me
0:30:51 > 0:30:54whenever I see that sequence, and that is, how do you get that
0:30:54 > 0:30:56cane off the floor to shoot into your hand?
0:30:56 > 0:30:58Is that trick photography?
0:30:58 > 0:31:01Well, it's not trick photography, it's a mechanical thing.
0:31:01 > 0:31:07There was a little hole in the ground on the stage that had a little thing
0:31:07 > 0:31:11that shot up and when the cane was there, it went like that and came up.
0:31:11 > 0:31:13LAUGHTER
0:31:13 > 0:31:18A fellow out there had to press the button just right, and you had
0:31:18 > 0:31:20to have a musician to do it because the timing had to be just
0:31:20 > 0:31:23a fraction ahead of that beat, because if you did it on the beat,
0:31:23 > 0:31:26it would have been a little late and throwing things out.
0:31:26 > 0:31:29So he had to go... So it landed up in my hand.
0:31:29 > 0:31:30Things like that take a lot of time.
0:31:30 > 0:31:34And you pray all the time that they're going to work!
0:31:34 > 0:31:35LAUGHTER
0:31:35 > 0:31:39That was supposed to be a retirement movie, that, wasn't it?
0:31:39 > 0:31:41It was announced at the time that, after that, you'd finished.
0:31:41 > 0:31:45Why was that? Why at that time were you thinking of retiring?
0:31:45 > 0:31:49Well, I think everybody gets that feeling, "Look,
0:31:49 > 0:31:54"I've done about all I can do now and I think I want to quit."
0:31:54 > 0:31:58And I actually did decide to retire then.
0:32:01 > 0:32:03And then something happened...
0:32:03 > 0:32:05I think, I think it was...
0:32:05 > 0:32:09This goes back a number of years, I can't exactly remember,
0:32:09 > 0:32:10but I think it was...
0:32:12 > 0:32:13Oh, I know.
0:32:13 > 0:32:16Gene Kelly was doing a movie called Easter Parade
0:32:16 > 0:32:19and he fell out of it because he'd hurt his leg,
0:32:19 > 0:32:22and then they got out to me and said, "Would I come over and take it over?"
0:32:22 > 0:32:27And start over again and do it with me, and he called me and it
0:32:27 > 0:32:34looked like a good show, and so I did it, so I was back in business again.
0:32:34 > 0:32:40So, then I stayed again for a while and had ideas again and quit again.
0:32:40 > 0:32:42I think a lot of people do that.
0:32:42 > 0:32:46I know a number of people who say, I can't do it, I can't think anymore.
0:32:46 > 0:32:50You think you can't and then maybe you can't, I don't know.
0:32:50 > 0:32:53Your mother wanted you to retire in fact when you were 35, didn't she?
0:32:53 > 0:32:55Oh, my mother, yes.
0:32:55 > 0:33:00My mother, she said, "Sonny, I think you should retire when you're 34."
0:33:00 > 0:33:04I don't know why she didn't say 35, but she said 34. I said, "Why?"
0:33:04 > 0:33:07She said, "Well, you started so early, you've worked so many years
0:33:07 > 0:33:11"and it's about time."
0:33:11 > 0:33:14She's such a wonderful woman, my goodness gracious.
0:33:14 > 0:33:16She had these cute ideas.
0:33:16 > 0:33:20I said, "Well, I'm afraid it isn't going to be possible,"
0:33:20 > 0:33:22so that was all there was of that.
0:33:22 > 0:33:23I'm going to ask you a question.
0:33:23 > 0:33:25Well, I'm not going to ask you a question.
0:33:25 > 0:33:28The question I'm not going to ask you is
0:33:28 > 0:33:30who was your favourite dancing partner,
0:33:30 > 0:33:33because you're not going to give me an answer to that, are you?
0:33:33 > 0:33:34Well, I can't,
0:33:34 > 0:33:38because I've always said my favourite dance partner is Bing Crosby.
0:33:38 > 0:33:39LAUGHTER
0:33:39 > 0:33:42- That gets me out.- Why is it though?
0:33:42 > 0:33:44Gene Kelly is exactly the same,
0:33:44 > 0:33:48you won't talk about your dancing partners. Why is that?
0:33:48 > 0:33:49Well, it's difficult,
0:33:49 > 0:33:52because the gals are all so good, and you just don't want to say,
0:33:52 > 0:33:56"Gee-whiz, I like that one better than the other one."
0:33:56 > 0:34:02It just... He had the same viewpoint. I just couldn't do it properly.
0:34:02 > 0:34:05I mean, each one had something special,
0:34:05 > 0:34:10and to say which is the best, I say, well, I really don't know.
0:34:10 > 0:34:13Some were more effective than others and all that - when it comes to
0:34:13 > 0:34:17actual dancing, there are certain ways and styles and techniques,
0:34:17 > 0:34:22and I could go listing a whole lot of names, but I don't want to get any
0:34:22 > 0:34:26priorities because I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings about it.
0:34:26 > 0:34:28But did your attitude as a perfectionist,
0:34:28 > 0:34:31this worrier that you've admitted yourself being...
0:34:31 > 0:34:36Excuse me, I must say Ginger was certainly the most effective
0:34:36 > 0:34:38partner I had. Everybody knows that.
0:34:38 > 0:34:41It was a whole other thing, what we did.
0:34:43 > 0:34:47I can't say... I just want to pay tribute to Ginger because we did so
0:34:47 > 0:34:51many pictures together, and, believe me, it was a value to have that gal.
0:34:51 > 0:34:53Woo! She had it. She was just great.
0:34:53 > 0:34:55There were all sorts of rumours about you and Ginger,
0:34:55 > 0:34:59- weren't there, in Hollywood? - There was fighting.- Yes, fighting.
0:34:59 > 0:35:02Listen, that was the biggest nonsense ever.
0:35:02 > 0:35:04We were talking before,
0:35:04 > 0:35:07you told me there was somebody who said there was a 25-year war...
0:35:07 > 0:35:10Between you and your dancing partners.
0:35:10 > 0:35:12Ridiculous. Absolutely nothing like it.
0:35:12 > 0:35:14Ginger and I never had any fight.
0:35:14 > 0:35:18When Ginger kicked me down the stairs, I loved it, I really did.
0:35:18 > 0:35:21LAUGHTER I said, "Please, do that again."
0:35:21 > 0:35:23APPLAUSE
0:35:25 > 0:35:29She was just the same way, she could hardly wait for me
0:35:29 > 0:35:31to kick her in the ankle, you know?
0:35:33 > 0:35:38No, actually, seriously - never had a fight with Ginger, never.
0:35:38 > 0:35:41There were questionable conversations about material. You say,
0:35:41 > 0:35:44"I don't like it" or "I do like it," or "I think we shouldn't,"
0:35:44 > 0:35:45"Oh, yes, no,"
0:35:45 > 0:35:49but you don't fight, I can't fight with the people I work with.
0:35:49 > 0:35:51I just can't. I just couldn't do it. It didn't happen.
0:35:51 > 0:35:55The press would have liked it that way, so we laughed about it.
0:35:55 > 0:35:59Well, let's talk about one partner that in fact you can talk about
0:35:59 > 0:36:02without hurting his or her feelings, because it happens to be a hat rack.
0:36:02 > 0:36:07- Which you used in a film called Royal Wedding, didn't you?- Right.
0:36:07 > 0:36:09Let's have a look at that clip first of all,
0:36:09 > 0:36:11then we'll talk about it in a minute.
0:36:11 > 0:36:13It is, as I say, from a film called Royal Wedding, and it's
0:36:13 > 0:36:17you in a gymnasium, and you start doing all kinds of weird things
0:36:17 > 0:36:19with the equipment.
0:37:56 > 0:38:00APPLAUSE
0:38:04 > 0:38:06When you watch that played back there,
0:38:06 > 0:38:09do you remember actually making it?
0:38:09 > 0:38:11Well, a lot of it, I really didn't.
0:38:11 > 0:38:15I didn't. Of course, I saw it earlier today, as you remember,
0:38:15 > 0:38:17and I remarked about it.
0:38:17 > 0:38:21I really was surprised about probably at least a third of it.
0:38:21 > 0:38:23At least a third of it.
0:38:23 > 0:38:25I knew that things happened in the gymnasium,
0:38:25 > 0:38:29because that was part of the plot of the thing I went up there to...
0:38:29 > 0:38:33I don't know what it was about, but it was... I was there.
0:38:33 > 0:38:35So I pick up this hat rack,
0:38:35 > 0:38:39imagining, making believe it's the girl, and dancing it around.
0:38:39 > 0:38:42But I didn't remember some of the stuff that makes me laugh
0:38:42 > 0:38:46when I see it, like, I don't remember kicking that punching bag.
0:38:46 > 0:38:48That made me laugh all of a sudden.
0:38:48 > 0:38:49LAUGHTER
0:38:49 > 0:38:51It's just silly!
0:38:51 > 0:38:53- When you... - LAUGHTER
0:38:53 > 0:38:56Yes, it would have been easier to have gone like that, actually!
0:38:56 > 0:38:58But, see, everything happens, when you get something,
0:38:58 > 0:39:01an idea working, and there's all this stuff around.
0:39:01 > 0:39:04I remember one thing... I don't want to go on with this too long,
0:39:04 > 0:39:07but I know in the gymnasium in that scene,
0:39:07 > 0:39:08there wasn't enough stuff to get,
0:39:08 > 0:39:11so I said, "Well, get me some of those things,
0:39:11 > 0:39:15"and then get me that horse," and we'd get something for that,
0:39:15 > 0:39:19and so we worked until we got enough that I thought would be...
0:39:19 > 0:39:21To make a number out of it, you see.
0:39:21 > 0:39:25But you start off with one idea and then end up,
0:39:25 > 0:39:28- if it gets going, you get a lot of things.- Well, one thing, of course,
0:39:28 > 0:39:30there you didn't have a problem with,
0:39:30 > 0:39:33you couldn't have possibly have a problem with a partner like that.
0:39:33 > 0:39:36One problem you didn't have there,
0:39:36 > 0:39:39that you must often have had with lady partners,
0:39:39 > 0:39:41was the problem of what they wore.
0:39:41 > 0:39:43Because we see you dancing around with girls
0:39:43 > 0:39:46in incredible creations, and it must have been difficult at times.
0:39:46 > 0:39:49Well, sometimes they had things that just wouldn't work.
0:39:49 > 0:39:53There'd be a whole lot of dress, and you couldn't see the feet,
0:39:53 > 0:39:56or anything, and I'd step on the thing and tear it or something,
0:39:56 > 0:39:59and we'd find that out before we started shooting.
0:39:59 > 0:40:01You'd find out at the dress rehearsal
0:40:01 > 0:40:03or at the costume fitting or something.
0:40:03 > 0:40:07They always would ask me to come and see it and see if it worked,
0:40:07 > 0:40:09and then I'd say... GASPS
0:40:09 > 0:40:12"Oh, sorry, baby."
0:40:12 > 0:40:15You've got to do something, and then they're always wanting
0:40:15 > 0:40:18to do what worked, too, because they realised it.
0:40:18 > 0:40:24But one or two things did happen that were funny, with Ginger.
0:40:27 > 0:40:31She had a dress on with very heavy beaded sleeves.
0:40:31 > 0:40:34It was way down here, and they were waving around,
0:40:34 > 0:40:38a sort of long dress with beads on it, weighed a tonne, this stuff,
0:40:38 > 0:40:40and I was doing this dance with her,
0:40:40 > 0:40:43and getting it done, and spinning around,
0:40:43 > 0:40:48and the very first take, this thing hit me across here,
0:40:48 > 0:40:51and I honestly didn't remember anything else about it.
0:40:51 > 0:40:55We just kept dancing until the thing was over, and I kept saying,
0:40:55 > 0:40:56"Oh, boy, what is this?"
0:40:56 > 0:40:59We have to finish and now, because nobody has said "Cut".
0:40:59 > 0:41:01The director did not say cut.
0:41:01 > 0:41:03He didn't see it, because it happened probably
0:41:03 > 0:41:05just in back when he was turning around, and anyway,
0:41:05 > 0:41:10I was groggy from this thing, partly, anyway,
0:41:10 > 0:41:12and then we finished the whole thing,
0:41:12 > 0:41:17and they wanted to take another for protection, and they took,
0:41:17 > 0:41:22I think we took about 10 or 12 takes of this difficult dance.
0:41:22 > 0:41:24I think it was called Let's Face The Music And Dance.
0:41:24 > 0:41:25And...
0:41:27 > 0:41:30We decided to stop working, because we were too tired
0:41:30 > 0:41:32and come in the next day after doing all these other takes,
0:41:32 > 0:41:35and believe me, we really wore ourselves out.
0:41:35 > 0:41:37We went to look at the rushes, some quick rushes
0:41:37 > 0:41:39to see it on the film.
0:41:39 > 0:41:41And the first take was the one we used in the picture.
0:41:41 > 0:41:43LAUGHTER
0:41:43 > 0:41:47- That's always the case, isn't it? - The first one, and good gracious!
0:41:47 > 0:41:50I didn't know, and I couldn't even see where I got hit.
0:41:50 > 0:41:52And then there was the feather thing with Ginger,
0:41:52 > 0:41:56which became kind of a legend. She had a feather dress that...
0:41:56 > 0:42:02like a snowstorm, it took off, when we were cheek to cheek,
0:42:02 > 0:42:04and there were feathers in this thing,
0:42:04 > 0:42:08and then she, take after take, the screen was full of feathers,
0:42:08 > 0:42:10and it was like snowing,
0:42:10 > 0:42:14and then we'd have to stop, sweep up the feathers.
0:42:14 > 0:42:16In fact, when she moulted enough...
0:42:16 > 0:42:17LAUGHTER
0:42:17 > 0:42:19..we were able to go on with the dance and it was fine,
0:42:19 > 0:42:22and then of course, some people made that that was a fight.
0:42:22 > 0:42:25That was no fight. We were roaring with laughter by the end.
0:43:28 > 0:43:32That same celebrated dance, cheek to cheek, from Top Hat,
0:43:32 > 0:43:36and those rumours that Astaire and Rogers didn't get on,
0:43:36 > 0:43:40came up again in 1991. Ginger Rogers was in London,
0:43:40 > 0:43:42promoting her autobiography,
0:43:42 > 0:43:45and gave this interview to Selina Scott.
0:43:45 > 0:43:46APPLAUSE
0:43:46 > 0:43:49What do you think of when you see that clip again
0:43:49 > 0:43:51after all these years?
0:43:51 > 0:43:53Well, I look at it with gratitude.
0:43:55 > 0:43:58Because that was part of my growing theatrically.
0:43:58 > 0:44:01What about all these rumours that you didn't get on with Fred Astaire,
0:44:01 > 0:44:03that you hated him, he hated you?
0:44:03 > 0:44:07Well, it was like all rumours are. It was just a rumour. Nothing else.
0:44:07 > 0:44:10And it was started by the publicity department of RKO Studios.
0:44:10 > 0:44:14They wanted to keep our name in the paper, so people would talk about us,
0:44:14 > 0:44:18so people would go to see our movies, and so they thought up this thing.
0:44:18 > 0:44:21Why didn't they say you were romantically involved with him?
0:44:21 > 0:44:24That would have been a good ruse, wouldn't it, at that time?
0:44:24 > 0:44:27Well, I think they would have been shot by Mrs Astaire!
0:44:27 > 0:44:30LAUGHTER
0:44:30 > 0:44:32She was as bad as that, was she?
0:44:32 > 0:44:37Well, she was very insistent with her husband
0:44:37 > 0:44:40about what happened when he was on the set.
0:44:40 > 0:44:46And she never wanted him to kiss the leading lady.
0:44:46 > 0:44:50That was an agreement that he made with the producer,
0:44:50 > 0:44:52so that they would be happy at home.
0:44:53 > 0:44:57Were you ever romantically involved with Fred Astaire?
0:44:57 > 0:44:59No, I had a date with him once,
0:44:59 > 0:45:03many years before we started dancing together.
0:45:03 > 0:45:05I danced with him...
0:45:05 > 0:45:07Excuse me. I...
0:45:09 > 0:45:10A date that we had.
0:45:11 > 0:45:17But then I left New York City for Hollywood, and after that,
0:45:17 > 0:45:22I didn't have a chance to see him until he arrived at RKO Studios
0:45:22 > 0:45:26by the insistence of our producer, Pandro Berman.
0:45:26 > 0:45:30He had been in New York and had seen Fred
0:45:30 > 0:45:35in The Gay Divorcee, the stage show.
0:45:35 > 0:45:38And he thought that would be a good thing to buy
0:45:38 > 0:45:41to give to the two of us to do.
0:45:41 > 0:45:44A lot of people, you see, forget that you were in fact
0:45:44 > 0:45:47a far bigger star than he was when you two got together.
0:45:47 > 0:45:50And it was billed as Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers,
0:45:50 > 0:45:53and yet, it should really have been the other way around,
0:45:53 > 0:45:54Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire.
0:45:54 > 0:45:57Ah, you forget one thing. It's a man's world.
0:45:57 > 0:46:00LAUGHTER
0:46:00 > 0:46:01Did that bug you then?
0:46:01 > 0:46:04It still does. LAUGHTER
0:46:06 > 0:46:08There was a chemistry, though, between the two of you.
0:46:08 > 0:46:12There was something going on there. What was it? Where did it come from?
0:46:12 > 0:46:17It was just the love of the dance. We both loved to dance.
0:46:17 > 0:46:20And we both loved to express ourselves in the dance.
0:46:20 > 0:46:24- But I remember reading that your feet bled at times...- Yes, yes.
0:46:24 > 0:46:26..with the work that you were doing.
0:46:26 > 0:46:31Well, we danced up steps, about 18 or 19 steps,
0:46:31 > 0:46:36and there was a dance on the main floor previous to that step,
0:46:36 > 0:46:40and then we had to dance up the stairs, the top of the stairs,
0:46:40 > 0:46:42we did a lot of whirls.
0:46:42 > 0:46:45And when I finished doing one take of that,
0:46:45 > 0:46:48after rehearsals and so on...
0:46:50 > 0:46:52They said, "Look, what's the matter with your foot?"
0:46:54 > 0:46:58And I had blisters on my feet from dancing so much
0:46:58 > 0:47:02in new shoes, that had just been dyed to match the dress,
0:47:02 > 0:47:03and they were still wet.
0:47:05 > 0:47:07Have you suffered physically because of this dance?
0:47:07 > 0:47:10If you think of footballers and ballet dancers,
0:47:10 > 0:47:13and they finish dancing, their bones start creaking, seizing up.
0:47:13 > 0:47:17I mean, have you ultimately suffered because of it?
0:47:17 > 0:47:20Well, I don't think I really suffered anything.
0:47:20 > 0:47:25I think I just had a bloody blister every once in a while.
0:47:26 > 0:47:30Your bones are still good. When did you last dance in public?
0:47:30 > 0:47:33It can't be long ago? No? When was it?
0:47:33 > 0:47:36Can you remember when you last danced in public?
0:47:36 > 0:47:39- You mean on the stage? - On the stage, yes.- Oh, yes.
0:47:39 > 0:47:43It was right here in London, actually.
0:47:45 > 0:47:50I was at the Palladium with my show, The Ginger Rogers Show.
0:47:50 > 0:47:52Yes. Are you content?
0:47:52 > 0:47:56- Very briefly, are you content with your life now, Ginger?- Yes, I am.
0:47:56 > 0:47:59And the book has helped to get a lot of it out?
0:47:59 > 0:48:01Well, it was great writing the book.
0:48:01 > 0:48:05I could go back and remember all the things that happened,
0:48:05 > 0:48:06and in that memory,
0:48:06 > 0:48:10I sort of played it over and over, like you play back on the screen.
0:48:10 > 0:48:13It was great fun. I really enjoyed it.
0:48:13 > 0:48:18I catch myself laughing at some of the memories I had, you know?
0:48:18 > 0:48:21Well, Ginger, it's been our pleasure having you here
0:48:21 > 0:48:23to share your memories with us tonight.
0:48:23 > 0:48:26Well, thank you, Selina. It's lovely to be here, darling.
0:48:26 > 0:48:28- Thank you very much indeed. - Thank you so much.
0:48:28 > 0:48:31APPLAUSE
0:48:36 > 0:48:40Ginger Rogers died four years after that interview, aged 83.
0:48:40 > 0:48:47Fred Astaire had died in 1987, aged 88.
0:48:47 > 0:48:48And they were both buried
0:48:48 > 0:48:52in the same memorial cemetery in California.
0:48:52 > 0:48:56On each occasion, their passing had people once again remembering
0:48:56 > 0:48:59and praising the magical chemistry of the unique partnership.
0:49:00 > 0:49:03Astaire, everyone agreed,
0:49:03 > 0:49:06was one of the greatest dancers of all time.
0:49:06 > 0:49:09And Rogers, as one famous quote declared,
0:49:09 > 0:49:15"Did everything Astaire could do, but backwards, and in heels."
0:49:27 > 0:49:30Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd