0:00:17 > 0:00:20One of cinema's biggest female stars
0:00:20 > 0:00:21of the 1940s,
0:00:21 > 0:00:23Joan Fontaine,
0:00:23 > 0:00:24was an actress whose
0:00:24 > 0:00:26on-screen image differed greatly
0:00:26 > 0:00:29from the reality of her life.
0:00:29 > 0:00:33Directors sought her out for her ability to convey restraint
0:00:33 > 0:00:38and vulnerability. But away from the camera, she was no pushover.
0:00:39 > 0:00:44She fought for, and won, some of the period's most coveted roles
0:00:44 > 0:00:49and engaged in one of Hollywood's most notorious feuds with
0:00:49 > 0:00:52her elder sister and fellow actress,
0:00:52 > 0:00:54Olivia de Havilland.
0:00:54 > 0:00:56And it was Fontaine,
0:00:56 > 0:01:00not James Stewart, Grace Kelly, or Cary Grant,
0:01:00 > 0:01:06who gave the only Oscar-winning performance in a Hitchcock film.
0:01:06 > 0:01:10She spoke about all these things with the interviewer Derek Hart,
0:01:10 > 0:01:12on the programme Talking Film.
0:01:15 > 0:01:18- Miss Fontaine, you were born de Havilland.- True.
0:01:18 > 0:01:20In Tokyo, of British...
0:01:20 > 0:01:22Worse than that, de Beauvoir de Havilland, while you're at it.
0:01:22 > 0:01:27De Beauvoir de Havilland, you were born in Tokyo of British parents.
0:01:27 > 0:01:28Yes.
0:01:28 > 0:01:31Did you feel at an early age that you were going to be an actress?
0:01:31 > 0:01:34Was this a certain plan for you?
0:01:34 > 0:01:36Well, that's rather interesting.
0:01:36 > 0:01:39My mother had been with the Royal Academy
0:01:39 > 0:01:42and I suppose we can call it a disappointed actress.
0:01:42 > 0:01:45In her words, her family wouldn't let her go on stage
0:01:45 > 0:01:47because it wasn't done.
0:01:47 > 0:01:49This was the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art.
0:01:49 > 0:01:51Yes, and music too. She did the whole lot.
0:01:51 > 0:01:54So, erm, she HATED our attempts
0:01:54 > 0:01:58to be as American as the locals
0:01:58 > 0:02:02and so she sat us down and made us do Shakespeare and everything else
0:02:02 > 0:02:04at very tender ages
0:02:04 > 0:02:06and we kind of took to it.
0:02:06 > 0:02:08I went round reciting poetry.
0:02:08 > 0:02:11It must have been ghastly at nine and ten.
0:02:11 > 0:02:14And then Olivia and I did little Shakespearian skits,
0:02:14 > 0:02:19Portia and Nerissa, all those things for the ladies' clubs and whatnot.
0:02:19 > 0:02:23So, then I went back to school in Japan and I found a diary,
0:02:23 > 0:02:25and I think especially if you're an actress,
0:02:25 > 0:02:27it's a very ridiculous thing to keep a diary.
0:02:27 > 0:02:32Probably very dangerous, but I had kept one for a brief moment,
0:02:32 > 0:02:36in which I had speculated about my future as to what I was going to be.
0:02:36 > 0:02:38And it was a toss-up between
0:02:38 > 0:02:42a librarian, a house painter and an actress,
0:02:42 > 0:02:44so I'm rather glad I chose this one.
0:02:44 > 0:02:48When you decided to become an actress in San Francisco,
0:02:48 > 0:02:51did you then immediately move to Los Angeles to Hollywood?
0:02:51 > 0:02:54Actually, that was in Japan, when I went back to school.
0:02:54 > 0:02:58By the time I returned to California, I found my sister -
0:02:58 > 0:03:01though she'd won a scholarship and she was an extraordinary student
0:03:01 > 0:03:04to a very fine college in California -
0:03:04 > 0:03:08had been selected to understudy
0:03:08 > 0:03:12in Max Reinhardt's Midsummer Night's Dream, which she did.
0:03:12 > 0:03:16And, like those extraordinary fables that nobody believes,
0:03:16 > 0:03:20but are usually filmed, at the opening night, the leading lady
0:03:20 > 0:03:23became ill and Olivia had the part, stole the reviews.
0:03:23 > 0:03:27The great cliche occasion of all time.
0:03:27 > 0:03:33So, by that time, I had got myself engaged to be married -
0:03:33 > 0:03:36one of my many times I've done that.
0:03:36 > 0:03:41I'm still prone to that sort of thing. Nasty habit, can't break it.
0:03:41 > 0:03:43So, I went to see my mother and sister,
0:03:43 > 0:03:45who were in Hollywood, to say goodbye,
0:03:45 > 0:03:47and an agent saw me at a party
0:03:47 > 0:03:49and said, "Wouldn't you like to be an actress?"
0:03:49 > 0:03:51Well, it seems so simple and so easy,
0:03:51 > 0:03:54I mean, I did it. I said, "Certainly."
0:03:54 > 0:04:00Well, having said I would, then how do you become one?
0:04:00 > 0:04:02And having decided to be one, you can't let go.
0:04:02 > 0:04:04The first movie that you made was which?
0:04:04 > 0:04:07It was one with Joan Crawford,
0:04:07 > 0:04:10and not under any name I can even remember now.
0:04:10 > 0:04:13Called No More Ladies, I believe.
0:04:13 > 0:04:18And I was 18, maybe. Maybe not that.
0:04:18 > 0:04:22And I was supposed to play a sophisticated rival of about 40,
0:04:22 > 0:04:27but that's Hollywood. I must have been hideous in it.
0:04:27 > 0:04:31How many movies did you make before you starred in Rebecca?
0:04:31 > 0:04:34Well, I was what we call the Queen of the B's.
0:04:34 > 0:04:35After B movies.
0:04:35 > 0:04:40We made B movies, and I'm glad. That is the best technique, really.
0:04:40 > 0:04:41The study of what you're doing,
0:04:41 > 0:04:45where you're going, where your marks are, get all that over with,
0:04:45 > 0:04:49and I played all the leads and that couldn't have been better.
0:04:49 > 0:04:51I must've made about five a year or so.
0:04:51 > 0:04:54How did you then make the leap into Rebecca?
0:04:54 > 0:04:57I'd actually almost given up films,
0:04:57 > 0:04:59the whole idea of it, and was going to be married.
0:04:59 > 0:05:02And I was sitting next to David Selznick at a party and mentioned
0:05:02 > 0:05:03I'd read the book
0:05:03 > 0:05:06and he said he'd bought it that day and would I care to test?
0:05:06 > 0:05:09I tested along with everybody else you can ever imagine
0:05:09 > 0:05:12and I was on my honeymoon. Of course, had I not married,
0:05:12 > 0:05:14this would not have happened.
0:05:14 > 0:05:17Let this be a lesson to you, not about marriage, but to everybody.
0:05:17 > 0:05:21Go far away and what you want will happen. Stay there and it won't.
0:05:21 > 0:05:23This was a movie with Laurence Olivier, wasn't it?
0:05:23 > 0:05:27Right, yes, and George Sanders.
0:05:27 > 0:05:29And Alfred Hitchcock directed.
0:05:29 > 0:05:31What a slap in the eye
0:05:31 > 0:05:33I must've been to them then.
0:05:33 > 0:05:35I suppose that's why you married me.
0:05:35 > 0:05:36Cos you knew I was dull
0:05:36 > 0:05:39and gauche and inexperienced
0:05:39 > 0:05:41and there could never be any gossip about me.
0:05:41 > 0:05:44Gossip? What do you mean?
0:05:44 > 0:05:47I...I don't know, I just said it for something to say!
0:05:47 > 0:05:53Don't look at me like that. Maxim, what's the matter? What have I said?
0:06:00 > 0:06:04- It wasn't a very attractive thing to say, was it?- No.
0:06:04 > 0:06:05It was rude and hateful.
0:06:10 > 0:06:13I wonder if I did a very selfish thing in marrying you.
0:06:13 > 0:06:15How do you mean?
0:06:15 > 0:06:17I'm not much of a companion to you, am I?
0:06:19 > 0:06:20You don't get much fun, do you?
0:06:22 > 0:06:25You ought to have married a boy, someone of your own age.
0:06:25 > 0:06:29Maxim, why do you say this? Of course we're companions!
0:06:29 > 0:06:30Are we?
0:06:30 > 0:06:33I don't know.
0:06:33 > 0:06:35I'm very difficult to live with.
0:06:35 > 0:06:37No, you're not difficult, you're easy. Very easy.
0:06:37 > 0:06:40Our marriage is a success, isn't it? A great success?
0:06:40 > 0:06:43We're happy, aren't we? Terribly happy.
0:06:51 > 0:06:54If you don't think we are happy,
0:06:54 > 0:06:56it would be much better if you didn't pretend.
0:06:56 > 0:07:00Can you say what it was like to work with Hitchcock for the first time?
0:07:00 > 0:07:03He was darling, a bit formidable,
0:07:03 > 0:07:07enormously bawdy sense of humour
0:07:07 > 0:07:11and he had a habit -
0:07:11 > 0:07:13whether it was conscious or not, I don't know -
0:07:13 > 0:07:17but of rather keeping all his actors at loggerheads,
0:07:17 > 0:07:22so HE would be the one in the middle, rather puckish.
0:07:22 > 0:07:26Good for me, because it made me suffer quite a lot
0:07:26 > 0:07:29and feel quite miserable all the time
0:07:29 > 0:07:33and it probably came out on the screen that way.
0:07:33 > 0:07:35This scene from Rebecca
0:07:35 > 0:07:37is with Judith Anderson.
0:07:37 > 0:07:39..live in her house, walk in her steps,
0:07:39 > 0:07:40take the things that were hers,
0:07:40 > 0:07:42but she's too strong for you.
0:07:42 > 0:07:45You can't fight her! No-one ever got the better of her, never, never!
0:07:45 > 0:07:48She was beaten in the end, but it wasn't a man. It wasn't a woman.
0:07:48 > 0:07:50It was the sea.
0:07:50 > 0:07:53Oh, stop it, stop it, oh, stop it!
0:08:12 > 0:08:16You're overwrought, madam. I've opened a window for you.
0:08:16 > 0:08:21A little air will do you good. SHE SOBS
0:08:31 > 0:08:33Why don't you go?
0:08:33 > 0:08:35Why don't you leave Manderley?
0:08:35 > 0:08:37He doesn't need you.
0:08:37 > 0:08:40He's got his memories.
0:08:40 > 0:08:44He doesn't love you, he wants to be alone again, with her.
0:08:44 > 0:08:47You've nothing to stay for.
0:08:47 > 0:08:50You've nothing to live for, really, have you?
0:08:51 > 0:08:55Look down there. It's easy, isn't it?
0:08:55 > 0:09:00Why don't you? Why don't you?
0:09:00 > 0:09:02Go on.
0:09:03 > 0:09:06Go on.
0:09:06 > 0:09:08Don't be afraid.
0:09:13 > 0:09:20He had absolutely no nonsense about mood or meaning or any of that.
0:09:20 > 0:09:21He was telling a story,
0:09:21 > 0:09:27expected you to tell it with him in absolutely common terms.
0:09:27 > 0:09:33No theories like the Actor's Studio or any of that. Made it terribly clear.
0:09:33 > 0:09:37And I remember finally I had to cry one day, quite a lot,
0:09:37 > 0:09:39and I said, "Hitch, I just can't cry any more."
0:09:39 > 0:09:43He said, "Well, kid, what are we going to do?" I said, "Slap me in the face."
0:09:43 > 0:09:44He said, "Fine."
0:09:44 > 0:09:45Off he went, slapped me in the face
0:09:45 > 0:09:47and went back and the tears came down.
0:09:47 > 0:09:51Partly pain, but a great deal of gratitude for his understanding.
0:09:51 > 0:09:53It was wonderful of him!
0:09:53 > 0:09:56You said he made you suffer a lot during the making of that thing
0:09:56 > 0:09:59and that it was probably good for you. In what way do you mean?
0:09:59 > 0:10:02Oh, well, I think that if you are playing an insignificant little girl
0:10:02 > 0:10:06that has a terrible inferiority complex,
0:10:06 > 0:10:09that it's better not to praise her too much and tell her
0:10:09 > 0:10:12she's marvellous or you'll undo what you want.
0:10:12 > 0:10:14He was a little difficult.
0:10:14 > 0:10:17I remember Larry Olivier telling a rather off-colour joke,
0:10:17 > 0:10:19as a matter of fact, the first time I'd ever heard a certain
0:10:19 > 0:10:26four-letter word ever spoken, and he'd said, "Oh, I wouldn't speak like
0:10:26 > 0:10:28"that in front of Joan. After all, she is a bride."
0:10:28 > 0:10:31And Larry said, "Oh, who did you marry?"
0:10:31 > 0:10:35And I shyly said, "Well, Brian Aherne." And he said, "Oh,
0:10:35 > 0:10:38"couldn't you have done better than that?"
0:10:38 > 0:10:41So, I think that's part of the treatment I was getting.
0:10:41 > 0:10:42It certainly helped the acting.
0:10:42 > 0:10:45It helped the acting to the extent that you were nominated for an
0:10:45 > 0:10:46- Academy Award...- And lost it.
0:10:46 > 0:10:50And the picture won it. Hitchcock I don't think got it.
0:10:50 > 0:10:53I may be wrong, but I don't think he got it for that.
0:10:53 > 0:10:56Then, of course, I did Suspicion, did get it for that.
0:10:56 > 0:10:59Also directed by Hitch and I don't think the picture got it,
0:10:59 > 0:11:01but there you are, that happens.
0:11:01 > 0:11:04Have you ever been kissed in a car before?
0:11:04 > 0:11:071941, Suspicion, with Cary Grant.
0:11:07 > 0:11:08..joke with me.
0:11:08 > 0:11:10I'm no good at joking,
0:11:10 > 0:11:11I don't know how to flirt.
0:11:11 > 0:11:13I'm not joking, I'm serious!
0:11:13 > 0:11:16- Have you ever been kissed in a car?- Never.- Hmm.
0:11:21 > 0:11:24- Would you like to be?- Yes.
0:11:34 > 0:11:36Well, well, you're the first woman I've ever met
0:11:36 > 0:11:39who said yes when she meant yes.
0:11:39 > 0:11:40What do the others say?
0:11:40 > 0:11:44- Heck if I know. Anything but yes. - But they kiss you.
0:11:44 > 0:11:46Usually.
0:11:46 > 0:11:48Have there...?
0:11:48 > 0:11:50Have there what?
0:11:50 > 0:11:52Have there been many?
0:11:52 > 0:11:54I'm afraid so, quite a few.
0:11:54 > 0:11:56One night when I couldn't fall asleep, I started to count them.
0:11:56 > 0:11:59You know, the way you count sheep jumping over a fence?
0:11:59 > 0:12:01I think I passed out on number 73.
0:12:02 > 0:12:05Are you always frank with them like this?
0:12:05 > 0:12:06No, no. Not particularly.
0:12:06 > 0:12:10Why are you frank with me? Because I'm different?
0:12:10 > 0:12:11No, no, it isn't that.
0:12:11 > 0:12:15I'm honest because with you, I think it's the best way to get results.
0:12:18 > 0:12:20I hope I'm not saying the wrong thing,
0:12:20 > 0:12:22but I love you.
0:12:25 > 0:12:27Well, get undressed, old girl, what are you waiting for?
0:12:27 > 0:12:32Johnnie, I'm in a state tonight, I don't know why. I'd like to be alone.
0:12:32 > 0:12:36Would you mind sleeping in your dressing room?
0:12:37 > 0:12:39Of course I'd mind.
0:12:42 > 0:12:45Please, Johnnie. I haven't been sleeping very well lately.
0:12:45 > 0:12:49I understand. You used to sleep badly when I wasn't here,
0:12:49 > 0:12:53and now you... All right, if that's the way you feel about it.
0:12:53 > 0:12:54Good night.
0:12:59 > 0:13:02DRAMATIC MUSIC
0:13:15 > 0:13:18You won an Academy Award as the best actress of the year
0:13:18 > 0:13:20for your part in Suspicion.
0:13:20 > 0:13:23Can you describe what the whole of the ballyhoo
0:13:23 > 0:13:25of the Academy Awards was like?
0:13:25 > 0:13:29Well, this was frightening to me, because Olivia was up for it also.
0:13:29 > 0:13:34- Your sister.- And I never expected to get it, had I not got it for Rebecca,
0:13:34 > 0:13:37I thought, it's silly to think of it for Suspicion,
0:13:37 > 0:13:40because they weren't comparable to me.
0:13:40 > 0:13:43And I was making a picture called The Constant Nymph.
0:13:43 > 0:13:46Olivia called me that day, as did the head of the Screen Actors Guild,
0:13:46 > 0:13:49Jean Hersholt, and she said, "You are coming out." "No, I can't.
0:13:49 > 0:13:52"I've got to get up at five in the morning. I'm going to be on the set
0:13:52 > 0:13:54"until six-thirty tonight.
0:13:54 > 0:13:57"I couldn't begin, I have no clothes to wear or anything."
0:13:57 > 0:14:00So, Olivia - and we were supposed to be enemies at this time,
0:14:00 > 0:14:05which is so ridiculous - brought a seamstress over
0:14:05 > 0:14:07and several lovely gowns that she had purchased for me.
0:14:07 > 0:14:10Tried them on on the set, and did all that.
0:14:10 > 0:14:12It was so sweet and wonderful of her.
0:14:12 > 0:14:15But the legend of you and your sister constantly feuding has...
0:14:15 > 0:14:17- Isn't it fun?- ..has no foundation.
0:14:17 > 0:14:21Oh, it has lots of foundation, but no fact. How's that? Do you like that?
0:14:23 > 0:14:28Olivia and I were brought up very, very strictly by our mother
0:14:28 > 0:14:31and we were all living in Hollywood together.
0:14:31 > 0:14:35I was, at that time, having to ask if I could go out in the evening,
0:14:35 > 0:14:39having to report in. Olivia the same, and we never had time.
0:14:39 > 0:14:41We were all working. We didn't have time
0:14:41 > 0:14:42to go to nightclubs or have beaux, really.
0:14:42 > 0:14:46And if they did, they had to come to call and have tea with Mother
0:14:46 > 0:14:49and all that sort of thing. So, there was no scandal. Nothing!
0:14:49 > 0:14:51As a matter of fact, I skipped a whole youth
0:14:51 > 0:14:53that never happened to me at all.
0:14:53 > 0:14:57Going out to dine, being gay, all that sort of thing.
0:14:57 > 0:15:00We didn't do that. So, there was nothing they could write about.
0:15:00 > 0:15:04Olivia was under contract to Warner Brothers, I to RKO,
0:15:04 > 0:15:10and I would simply imagine that the heads of the publicity department
0:15:10 > 0:15:12kind of got together and said,
0:15:12 > 0:15:17"What are we going to do about these spinster ladies?" And this evolved.
0:15:17 > 0:15:20At least it was a feud which got the names of the pictures in
0:15:20 > 0:15:22and the studios and all that.
0:15:22 > 0:15:28How much of the great Hollywood spectacular days did you catch?
0:15:28 > 0:15:31I was very fortunate, because by the time I was there,
0:15:31 > 0:15:34Mary Pickford had retired in splendour to Pickfair,
0:15:34 > 0:15:38which was the example of gracious living, shall we say.
0:15:38 > 0:15:42So everybody wanted to live more or less like that.
0:15:42 > 0:15:44Then with the war coming, nobody could travel.
0:15:44 > 0:15:46And it's a terrible thing to say,
0:15:46 > 0:15:48but there was nothing to spend one's money on.
0:15:48 > 0:15:50Really nothing at all!
0:15:50 > 0:15:53So everybody got bigger and better houses
0:15:53 > 0:15:57and more and more silver pheasants running down the dining room tables,
0:15:57 > 0:16:00that kind of thing, and entertaining.
0:16:00 > 0:16:02Everybody had to outdo the others.
0:16:02 > 0:16:05Naturally, everybody had their swimming pool
0:16:05 > 0:16:08and that was usually covered with a dance floor.
0:16:08 > 0:16:14Huge tent erected, living trees of lilacs and roses brought in,
0:16:14 > 0:16:17paving the way from the house to the tent.
0:16:17 > 0:16:19And several orchestras, perhaps.
0:16:19 > 0:16:22And, naturally, champagne and everything.
0:16:22 > 0:16:24But this was almost a nightly occurrence.
0:16:24 > 0:16:27It was really finally rather boring.
0:16:27 > 0:16:29You know, "Ho-hum, here we are at another one.
0:16:29 > 0:16:31"Well, there's not as many roses tonight."
0:16:31 > 0:16:37And one party, which wasn't too long ago, that Jack Benny gave,
0:16:37 > 0:16:40and I hadn't been to Hollywood for a long time,
0:16:40 > 0:16:43so I was asked to that. It was about five years ago.
0:16:43 > 0:16:46It was for, I believe, Heifetz or somebody like that.
0:16:46 > 0:16:50And Mary had got glorious peonies, I don't know what,
0:16:50 > 0:16:54from San Francisco down, the usual tent and everything.
0:16:54 > 0:16:56And I was thunderstruck.
0:16:56 > 0:17:00Here were all the men in one end of the room talking about business.
0:17:00 > 0:17:04All the most beautiful women in the world, beautifully gowned,
0:17:04 > 0:17:08talking about their children or their servant problems.
0:17:08 > 0:17:12We went into this lavish place to dine. Nobody danced.
0:17:12 > 0:17:15And everybody had to leave, of course, by 11 o'clock,
0:17:15 > 0:17:17because they were all working the next morning.
0:17:17 > 0:17:20And I had forgotten that this was the way one lived.
0:17:20 > 0:17:22Very disappointing for the hostess.
0:17:22 > 0:17:24Terribly nice of her to go to so much trouble,
0:17:24 > 0:17:28but rather extraordinary to see.
0:17:28 > 0:17:31And I shall never forget, as I got in the car,
0:17:31 > 0:17:33Gary Cooper came down the...
0:17:35 > 0:17:39..brick path from the house, knocked on the window and said,
0:17:39 > 0:17:41"Have fun, kids."
0:17:41 > 0:17:44And I didn't know it, but he was dying of cancer
0:17:44 > 0:17:45and he died within three months.
0:17:45 > 0:17:49And that one thing makes him stand out more than anything else he ever
0:17:49 > 0:17:53did in his life, because I think he wished that maybe
0:17:53 > 0:17:56he could be rushing off and doing something else too.
0:17:56 > 0:17:59Did you ever feel that you were the victim of the Hollywood
0:17:59 > 0:18:00publicity machinery?
0:18:00 > 0:18:02In the beginning, it was frightful, and I think it is
0:18:02 > 0:18:06frightful for anybody to have their marriage constantly attacked.
0:18:06 > 0:18:09I remember one woman saying in the press
0:18:09 > 0:18:11that Brian and I were divorcing,
0:18:11 > 0:18:14and I called her, which I shouldn't have done, I learnt about it then.
0:18:14 > 0:18:17And she said, "Well, we haven't seen you around lately."
0:18:17 > 0:18:19I said, "Well, of course not! I'm working!
0:18:19 > 0:18:23"I'm home at seven every night, up at five and so is he."
0:18:23 > 0:18:25And she said, "Well, if you're still together
0:18:25 > 0:18:28"in six months, I'll retract it."
0:18:28 > 0:18:30But that leaves it...
0:18:30 > 0:18:33It's multiplied. Your friends ring you or write to you
0:18:33 > 0:18:34or say, "Isn't it dreadful?"
0:18:34 > 0:18:40Before you know it, you ARE divorced and it's a terrible thing,
0:18:40 > 0:18:43and I think just the negative thought, it plants the seed
0:18:43 > 0:18:47and your friends seem to get used to it. When you're not.
0:18:47 > 0:18:49And it's a horrid thing, horrid.
0:18:49 > 0:18:51Did that kind of thing happen a lot in Hollywood?
0:18:51 > 0:18:53Yeah, I think it happens all the time.
0:18:53 > 0:18:55So this meant that really any Hollywood marriage had to
0:18:55 > 0:18:57fight like hell to survive?
0:18:57 > 0:19:02With your own family, your own friends, with your own studio, yes.
0:19:02 > 0:19:05Without any grounds, perhaps. At all.
0:19:05 > 0:19:09And then if you did go home before your husband did, at a party
0:19:09 > 0:19:11because you had to get up early,
0:19:11 > 0:19:15"What husband was left in the lurch by his movie star wife?"
0:19:15 > 0:19:19would be in the press the next day. So you don't really stand a chance.
0:19:20 > 0:19:24Fontaine was very familiar with the dark side of Hollywood
0:19:24 > 0:19:27and so the topic came up again in a programme called
0:19:27 > 0:19:30Hollywood Greats with Barry Norman in 1979.
0:19:32 > 0:19:34As far as the stars were concerned,
0:19:34 > 0:19:36the real bosses were the Mayers, the Jack Warners,
0:19:36 > 0:19:38the Sam Goldwyns, and the Combs,
0:19:38 > 0:19:43and these people ran their studios like medieval baronies or like
0:19:43 > 0:19:45dictatorships, though not always benevolent.
0:19:45 > 0:19:47These were the men that the stars had to placate
0:19:47 > 0:19:51and whose rules they had to follow if they wished to thrive.
0:19:51 > 0:19:54The fact that the moguls were in turn subject to the whims
0:19:54 > 0:19:56and the dictates of the New York office
0:19:56 > 0:19:58and the stockholders didn't matter.
0:19:58 > 0:20:00In Hollywood itself, the moguls were the law.
0:20:00 > 0:20:02On one occasion, for example,
0:20:02 > 0:20:05Miss Fontaine was persuaded to go on a trip with other starlets to
0:20:05 > 0:20:09have some publicity pictures taken, or so they were led to believe.
0:20:09 > 0:20:11Rather amusing story, I think,
0:20:11 > 0:20:15because I was told we had to go out to Arrowhead Springs, where
0:20:15 > 0:20:18there's a big hotel, and there was going to be a distributers' meeting.
0:20:18 > 0:20:21And a distributers' meeting really is an excuse for everybody to come
0:20:21 > 0:20:24to Hollywood and leave their wives at home. It looks like business.
0:20:24 > 0:20:28So, I went with my mother and they all were horrified.
0:20:28 > 0:20:31And they said, "Get rid of the old lady."
0:20:31 > 0:20:33And my mother, of course, overheard this
0:20:33 > 0:20:37and she said, "Joan is coming to bed when I am
0:20:37 > 0:20:41"and that will be all." And I went with my mother
0:20:41 > 0:20:43and the next morning, Mother got on the phone - she was not
0:20:43 > 0:20:47a Hollywood mother, a theatrical mother at all, she didn't push us -
0:20:47 > 0:20:50but she said, "My daughter's up here to take pictures.
0:20:50 > 0:20:52"Where's the cameraman?"
0:20:52 > 0:20:55And nobody appeared, they were all hung-over, of course.
0:20:55 > 0:20:58Mother kept on the phone persistently, and finally, some...
0:21:03 > 0:21:07..bemused cameraman came up and with a jaundiced eye,
0:21:07 > 0:21:09looked through the camera, took some photographs of me,
0:21:09 > 0:21:11and they sent me packing home.
0:21:11 > 0:21:15I was called into the publicity office the next day
0:21:15 > 0:21:20and was accused of being high-hat and snobbish and all this
0:21:20 > 0:21:26sort of thing because I hadn't been one of the gang, and I was fired.
0:21:26 > 0:21:31The only trouble with Hollywood is you know you're running out of it.
0:21:31 > 0:21:34You're going right straight through it and out the other end.
0:21:34 > 0:21:39It's not a cul-de-sac, because they don't want you that long anyway.
0:21:40 > 0:21:43Eventually, Fontaine would pour all
0:21:43 > 0:21:46her experiences into a tell-all autobiography.
0:21:46 > 0:21:49She called it No Bed Of Roses.
0:21:49 > 0:21:54One of her ex-husbands would call it No Shred Of Truth.
0:21:54 > 0:21:59Its publication in 1978 led to this appearance on the Tonight programme
0:21:59 > 0:22:01with the interviewer Valerie Singleton.
0:22:03 > 0:22:06Joan Fontaine, you're a successful Hollywood movie star,
0:22:06 > 0:22:09you've had success, glamour, parties, travel,
0:22:09 > 0:22:13an exciting life, and yet you've called your book No Bed Of Roses.
0:22:13 > 0:22:14Why?
0:22:14 > 0:22:20I think in No Bed Of Roses it explains a childhood
0:22:20 > 0:22:24which was no more severe than some childhoods
0:22:24 > 0:22:28but where there were no relatives except a mother,
0:22:28 > 0:22:33where my mother was, in a sense, deserted by my father
0:22:33 > 0:22:38and we ran away from home, my sister and I. She really ran away
0:22:38 > 0:22:40and I was away, so I just stayed away.
0:22:40 > 0:22:45And then four marriages, that's not easy.
0:22:45 > 0:22:48And the ups and downs of career.
0:22:48 > 0:22:51That's not easy. And, um...
0:22:51 > 0:22:53- Not as glamorous as it appears, to people?- It certainly isn't.
0:22:53 > 0:22:58However, I'm out the other side of it, I'm a very happy woman.
0:22:58 > 0:23:00I feel very fortunate, I've accomplished a lot,
0:23:00 > 0:23:03I've done it all by myself and I'm rather proud of that
0:23:03 > 0:23:06and I'm proud of being an author.
0:23:06 > 0:23:09You... I have to raise this, and I'm sure it's been raised many times,
0:23:09 > 0:23:12but you have this feud with your sister, Olivia de Havilland.
0:23:12 > 0:23:15Did this come about because you were rivals, she was a year older
0:23:15 > 0:23:17than you, and her success came more quickly than yours did?
0:23:17 > 0:23:20- Did you find being...? - I try to explain in the book
0:23:20 > 0:23:22that it really happened, I think,
0:23:22 > 0:23:27at my birth, because my mother said that Olivia, since we were born in
0:23:27 > 0:23:31Tokyo, there were a lot of servants and all that sort of thing,
0:23:31 > 0:23:36and she was rather the cock of the walk, and then the little intruder comes in.
0:23:36 > 0:23:40As an intruder, I was a very sickly baby.
0:23:40 > 0:23:44I had eczema all over my body for two years and I was in cotton wool.
0:23:44 > 0:23:47So, I must have got a great deal of attention
0:23:47 > 0:23:50and she must've been told, don't disturb the sleeping child, or
0:23:50 > 0:23:54you can't go and see her, because she's sleeping, whatever it is.
0:23:54 > 0:23:59And that... So, I was not a little doll to play with.
0:23:59 > 0:24:01I was somebody who was upsetting her realm, as it were. And...
0:24:01 > 0:24:04- People usually grow out of that when they grow older.- Yes, they do.
0:24:04 > 0:24:09- And she has not been able to.- She? Not you? Or both of you?- I have...
0:24:09 > 0:24:13I'm proud of an older sister. I have no resentment of any kind.
0:24:13 > 0:24:17You, actually, funnily enough, won an Oscar before she did, for your performance in Suspicion.
0:24:17 > 0:24:20Was that a bone of contention as well or not?
0:24:20 > 0:24:21No, she wouldn't raise that.
0:24:21 > 0:24:25I mean, it's a fair fight, if it is a fight at all.
0:24:25 > 0:24:31I feel a little guilty about it, but I feel a little guilty that
0:24:31 > 0:24:34Brian Aherne, to whom I was married, had never even been nominated.
0:24:34 > 0:24:40He was there, so that was rather awkward, only within me,
0:24:40 > 0:24:42but they, I hope, were happy for me.
0:24:42 > 0:24:44Was it a role you were proud of?
0:24:44 > 0:24:46Do you think it was one of your better roles?
0:24:46 > 0:24:47Oh, yes. There's no doubt.
0:24:47 > 0:24:50I was directed by Hitchcock, and how lucky can one be?
0:24:50 > 0:24:53But not one performance has really given you complete satisfaction.
0:24:53 > 0:24:56There must be one or two, surely, that have given you some.
0:24:56 > 0:25:01I don't think any artist, be it an opera singer, pianist,
0:25:01 > 0:25:05a writer, anybody, is completely satisfied with their performance.
0:25:05 > 0:25:08- And they shouldn't be, either. - Which is one of your favourites?
0:25:08 > 0:25:13Oh, I have so many. I was lucky to have the classics, really.
0:25:13 > 0:25:17In order, Rebecca, Suspicion, Constant Nymph, Jane Eyre,
0:25:17 > 0:25:22This Above All, Letter From An Unknown Woman, Ivanhoe.
0:25:22 > 0:25:27I mean, I've been very lucky and I've had marvellous leading men.
0:25:27 > 0:25:30You said just now you've been married four times
0:25:30 > 0:25:32and, again, coming out of your book,
0:25:32 > 0:25:34you seem very much to need the sort of permanence
0:25:34 > 0:25:38and security in a marriage that you seemed not to get in your childhood.
0:25:38 > 0:25:39And yet four marriages.
0:25:39 > 0:25:42- Do you think Hollywood's to blame for the whirlwind, kind of superficial...- No.
0:25:42 > 0:25:48I think being the child of divorced parents makes one have
0:25:48 > 0:25:51a different attitude about marriage.
0:25:51 > 0:25:54I had never any real intention of it being for ever and ever
0:25:54 > 0:25:56and ever and ever.
0:25:56 > 0:25:59Because, as I write in No Bed Of Roses,
0:25:59 > 0:26:03the night before my first marriage, there was a telephone call
0:26:03 > 0:26:06at midnight saying, "Please may I get out of this marriage?"
0:26:06 > 0:26:08And that's not a very good start.
0:26:08 > 0:26:11Each of your marriages seems to have something that goes
0:26:11 > 0:26:13wrong near the beginning of it that almost casts doubt.
0:26:13 > 0:26:15- Yes, absolutely.- Extraordinary.
0:26:15 > 0:26:18I think that marriage should be terribly truthful
0:26:18 > 0:26:23and nobody should go into marriage with any secrets of any kind.
0:26:23 > 0:26:27And there were secrets in all my marriages that I discovered about
0:26:27 > 0:26:31my husband shortly after marriage, which was a terrible blow.
0:26:31 > 0:26:34- And I don't think quite fair. - What are you doing now?
0:26:34 > 0:26:36You're not in Hollywood any more, are you?
0:26:36 > 0:26:39Oh, I've lived in New York for years.
0:26:39 > 0:26:43I have a rather lovely apartment, all kinds of friends,
0:26:43 > 0:26:45which one does in a large city.
0:26:45 > 0:26:49In Hollywood, you had only friends that were in motion pictures, really.
0:26:49 > 0:26:53But to have the UN, and many other things, is very exciting.
0:26:53 > 0:26:58I find this time in my life, this age that I'm at, is a marvellous age.
0:26:58 > 0:27:03Most women are terrified about getting older. Ah! It is lovely.
0:27:03 > 0:27:06Especially if you have your own financial independence,
0:27:06 > 0:27:09that's very important. And I do.
0:27:09 > 0:27:13And I rely pretty much on myself for everything
0:27:13 > 0:27:17and it's lovely to be able to choose the kind of life that I want to live
0:27:17 > 0:27:18and then go ahead and live it.
0:27:18 > 0:27:21So briefly, despite being called No Bed Of Roses,
0:27:21 > 0:27:23there aren't too many regrets?
0:27:23 > 0:27:25There are no regrets, because that's living.
0:27:25 > 0:27:27I can't regret having lived and learned.
0:27:28 > 0:27:33For Joan, living and learning never meant just acting.
0:27:33 > 0:27:36Outside of Hollywood, she was a licensed pilot,
0:27:36 > 0:27:39flew in an international balloon race, trained as
0:27:39 > 0:27:45a Cordon Bleu cook and was a shrewd player of the stock market.
0:27:45 > 0:27:51When she died, in 2013 aged 96, at home in California,
0:27:51 > 0:27:54many referred to a quote that captured both her
0:27:54 > 0:27:57love of performance and the most famous of her relationships.
0:27:58 > 0:28:02She'd been asked how she'd like to die.
0:28:02 > 0:28:05And she'd answered, "Aged 108,
0:28:05 > 0:28:09"flying around the stage in Peter Pan
0:28:09 > 0:28:12"as a result of my sister cutting the wires."