0:00:14 > 0:00:19In the 1970s, Robert Redford was the Hollywood superstar
0:00:19 > 0:00:20who had it all.
0:00:20 > 0:00:23Acting talent, a string of films that were critical
0:00:23 > 0:00:27and commercial successes, and, of course, looks,
0:00:27 > 0:00:31that made him one of the world's greatest heartthrobs.
0:00:31 > 0:00:34Always passionate about politics and the environment,
0:00:34 > 0:00:37Robert Redford starred in some of the eras most
0:00:37 > 0:00:39thought-provoking films,
0:00:39 > 0:00:42like All The President's Men and The Candidate.
0:00:42 > 0:00:46But it was one of cinema's best-loved crowd-pleasers
0:00:46 > 0:00:49that catapulted him into the big league -
0:00:49 > 0:00:51Butch Cassidy And The Sundance Kid.
0:00:51 > 0:00:54Here we join him for an interview with Melvyn Bragg
0:00:54 > 0:00:59that begins by examining the impact that the film had on his life.
0:00:59 > 0:01:03Did you find yourself that after, particularly after,
0:01:03 > 0:01:06The Sun... Butch Cassidy And The Sundance Kid
0:01:06 > 0:01:09that it was very difficult to break away from being
0:01:09 > 0:01:11the person that everybody wanted to think you were?
0:01:11 > 0:01:13Sure.
0:01:13 > 0:01:15Yeah, really.
0:01:15 > 0:01:17Er, it's not pleasant,
0:01:17 > 0:01:20it's...that's a whole double-edged sword that, you know.
0:01:20 > 0:01:24Um, because you are naive at the time, you are just playing a role.
0:01:24 > 0:01:27And you started in the business, if you started as I did,
0:01:27 > 0:01:32as an actor who liked to think he came from legitimate stage
0:01:32 > 0:01:35which I did in New York. You think of yourself, first of all,
0:01:35 > 0:01:37as an actor...
0:01:37 > 0:01:40and then suddenly you're in, you are playing a variety of
0:01:40 > 0:01:43different roles and no-one's really making too much about it.
0:01:43 > 0:01:48And then suddenly you're in a particular production that's very successful.
0:01:48 > 0:01:50And then the next thing you know you're kind of labelled
0:01:50 > 0:01:54and as you stretch to a different role, the acceptance is less,
0:01:54 > 0:01:59the credibility of being able to stretch is, uh, less
0:01:59 > 0:02:03- and that's bothersome.- And people don't want you to stretch, do they?
0:02:04 > 0:02:07Well, I think you're right, I...
0:02:07 > 0:02:11I suspect people don't, I'm beginning to think, more and more...
0:02:11 > 0:02:13that er...
0:02:13 > 0:02:17people tend to want to restrict you to a certain slot
0:02:17 > 0:02:19and if they've been pleased by a performance in that slot
0:02:19 > 0:02:22they'd just as soon have it stay there, but for me that's
0:02:22 > 0:02:23for television.
0:02:23 > 0:02:26That's for television series and I don't think it's bad,
0:02:26 > 0:02:29it's perfectly fine but it's not for me.
0:02:29 > 0:02:32Well, what seems to have happened is you've dug deeper and deeper
0:02:32 > 0:02:36into your privacy. I mean, your place in Utah, taking time off
0:02:36 > 0:02:39to do exactly what you want to do, your own private, political
0:02:39 > 0:02:42and social and intellectual concerns, that sort of thing.
0:02:42 > 0:02:46But you must come up against the paradox again and again that the...
0:02:46 > 0:02:49being a movie star on the one hand and wanting so ferociously
0:02:49 > 0:02:54to be a proud person on the other, that's quite a bit of tension.
0:02:54 > 0:02:56It's almost libellous.
0:02:56 > 0:02:58- Libelling yourself?- Yeah, truly.
0:02:58 > 0:03:02Erm, it's not...pleasant. It's not easy and it's not pleasant
0:03:02 > 0:03:05but go and try and tell someone about it. It's like saying,
0:03:05 > 0:03:07"I'm so unhappy, I'm so rich,"
0:03:07 > 0:03:10and expecting people to feel sorry for you. It's like saying that
0:03:10 > 0:03:13and you just can't talk about it. It's something you have to endure
0:03:13 > 0:03:18in the best way you can and try to work out the space in your own life
0:03:18 > 0:03:23as best you can to do what you want to do, to create the selfish time
0:03:23 > 0:03:25to...to grow.
0:03:25 > 0:03:27It's very difficult, you know, to...
0:03:28 > 0:03:35What frightens me more than anything is that...shrinking.
0:03:35 > 0:03:37Er, the environment shrinks on you.
0:03:37 > 0:03:42You... People begin to treat you more and more like an object
0:03:42 > 0:03:44and the danger is that you begin to feel more and more like
0:03:44 > 0:03:47an object and the chances are you will begin to act more and more
0:03:47 > 0:03:51like one and the thing that made you what you are...
0:03:51 > 0:03:53There's a wonderful line, incidentally,
0:03:53 > 0:03:56in a book about Tom Mix, off all people.
0:03:57 > 0:04:00It says, "What is it about success that makes us
0:04:00 > 0:04:03"lose the thing that made us a success in the first place?"
0:04:03 > 0:04:06And there's great truth to that, I think cos you fear that the
0:04:06 > 0:04:10thing that made you what you are, your ability to observe...
0:04:11 > 0:04:14- Your capacity to hang around, for example.- You bet, you bet
0:04:14 > 0:04:17and your... Exactly.
0:04:17 > 0:04:20And your love of other people and watching behaviour
0:04:20 > 0:04:24and being involved in the action of situations straight across
0:04:24 > 0:04:27the country, whether it's a bar, diner...
0:04:27 > 0:04:31I used to love that, I used to hitchhike back and forth across America,
0:04:31 > 0:04:35here in Europe. To me that was great fuel and a great entertainment
0:04:35 > 0:04:38source for me and all that's reduced by the fact
0:04:38 > 0:04:42that it's difficult to watch other people when they're watching you.
0:04:42 > 0:04:46And I'm awkward and self-conscious in, in crowds...
0:04:46 > 0:04:49I worry about them, I fear them and I don't trust them.
0:04:50 > 0:04:54Er, so you carve your own space for yourself but the danger is
0:04:54 > 0:05:00that that space is usually an isolated one and you get no feedback.
0:05:00 > 0:05:03You've tended to turn to nature, haven't you?
0:05:03 > 0:05:05- To, erm...- I haven't turned...
0:05:05 > 0:05:07to nature. Nature's always been there for me. I...
0:05:07 > 0:05:11To me it's comfortable. It's very comfortable and I'm happy,
0:05:11 > 0:05:16you say "nature", I... Yeah, I'm happy there.
0:05:16 > 0:05:18- Climbing and riding...? - Yeah, I love it.- Yeah.
0:05:18 > 0:05:19I feel good. It's just that simple.
0:05:19 > 0:05:22There's nothing heavier, really, than that.
0:05:22 > 0:05:25I also happen to love a really good hard city.
0:05:25 > 0:05:29I love New York City because it's... to me, it's an honest city
0:05:29 > 0:05:32that makes no pretences to be anything other than what it is.
0:05:32 > 0:05:35Dirty, hard, rough, you know. It's nice.
0:05:35 > 0:05:38But your life has definitely been constricted by success in ways
0:05:38 > 0:05:41- which you mind about? - Yeah, I do. I do.
0:05:41 > 0:05:45I can't goof off, I can't... If you goof off, you're an exhibitionist.
0:05:45 > 0:05:49If you goof off, you're staging something for publicity.
0:05:49 > 0:05:53I used to do a lot... I used to have more fun...years ago.
0:05:54 > 0:05:58I walked to work once, in pyjamas, down Broadway.
0:05:58 > 0:06:03I sat for an hour in a trash can on 57th Street and Broadway
0:06:03 > 0:06:05just to see what the reaction of people was going to be.
0:06:05 > 0:06:07Very few noticed.
0:06:07 > 0:06:12- Er, it's hard to do that now because, "What are you trying to prove", you know.- Yeah.
0:06:12 > 0:06:15And you become self-conscious and all that.
0:06:15 > 0:06:17But that's the way it is.
0:06:17 > 0:06:21But you went into the political... erm, life of America
0:06:21 > 0:06:23when you did The Candidate, you went into it
0:06:23 > 0:06:26on another side when you did All The President's Men.
0:06:26 > 0:06:29But let's start with All The President's Men -
0:06:29 > 0:06:32when did you first get interested in it?
0:06:32 > 0:06:35About the time it was happening, it was 1972 and the break-in
0:06:35 > 0:06:37was just three...
0:06:37 > 0:06:39about three or four weeks' old.
0:06:39 > 0:06:43And I was in a spot in the country where there are a lot of political
0:06:43 > 0:06:46reporters and entertainment reporters, we were promoting a film -
0:06:46 > 0:06:48The Candidate as a matter of fact.
0:06:48 > 0:06:52And I was listening to their conversations about the break-in,
0:06:52 > 0:06:54and I said, "Oh, yeah, what happened about that?"
0:06:54 > 0:06:57Cos there had been a big splash when it happened
0:06:57 > 0:07:01and then it went underground, it went dry, and I couldn't figure it out.
0:07:01 > 0:07:04And they said that it would probably stay underground and I said,
0:07:04 > 0:07:08"What do you mean, by that?" And they said, "Well, it's in the..." and there was a lot of...
0:07:08 > 0:07:12sidelong glances and snickering and so forth and I said,
0:07:12 > 0:07:14"What... I don't know what you're saying." And they said,
0:07:14 > 0:07:17"Well, it's probably tied to Nixon."
0:07:17 > 0:07:20And I said, "Well, are we going to hear that?
0:07:20 > 0:07:24"Are we going to see that?" And they said, "No."
0:07:24 > 0:07:27They were very cynical about the whole prospects of the truth ever coming out
0:07:27 > 0:07:30and I was very depressed by their attitude, you know,
0:07:30 > 0:07:33much less the fact that it could be true.
0:07:33 > 0:07:38So, they said, or in many cases, implied, that Nixon was
0:07:38 > 0:07:42going to be re-elected and the power of that particular administration
0:07:42 > 0:07:45and the people that he... that worked for him...
0:07:45 > 0:07:48was so strong that people were afraid and the idea that Washington,
0:07:48 > 0:07:52the entire city of Washington could be frightened
0:07:52 > 0:07:56and our whole congressional leadership could be frightened
0:07:56 > 0:07:58of something, particularly one man, really fascinated me.
0:07:58 > 0:08:01He had given me an award once when I was very young.
0:08:01 > 0:08:03I was about 13.
0:08:03 > 0:08:05And when he handed me the award...
0:08:05 > 0:08:07HE CHUCKLES
0:08:07 > 0:08:08..there was nothing happening...
0:08:08 > 0:08:11And I thought, "That's really incredible",
0:08:11 > 0:08:14I remembered that about him, that I had absolutely no...
0:08:14 > 0:08:18no contact with the man whatsoever and then through the years
0:08:18 > 0:08:21his political career and my years growing up he seemed to be
0:08:21 > 0:08:24appearing from time to time and never convincing to me,
0:08:24 > 0:08:28always slightly phony, slightly insincere and it bothered me,
0:08:28 > 0:08:31that's all. And when I heard this story...
0:08:31 > 0:08:35about him, I hoped that the truth would come out.
0:08:35 > 0:08:39That was a private hope of a private citizen that really did not
0:08:39 > 0:08:40care for the man.
0:08:41 > 0:08:44And suspected that maybe the worst was possible from him.
0:08:46 > 0:08:49Also, as a citizen, I was concerned about the truth,
0:08:49 > 0:08:52the one conduit to the truth at that time being the press,
0:08:52 > 0:08:54being able to perform their duty.
0:08:54 > 0:08:57So when they told me this I got quite upset about it and I said,
0:08:57 > 0:09:00"What are you going to do? Just sit around and drink free booze
0:09:00 > 0:09:02"and laugh about it? Or are you going to do anything about it?"
0:09:02 > 0:09:05And they said, "Well, it isn't a question of that.
0:09:05 > 0:09:07"You're pretty naive... the fact of the matter is the paper,
0:09:07 > 0:09:10"one, has to support you, the editors have to support you,
0:09:10 > 0:09:13"they have to have the money...
0:09:13 > 0:09:16"to be able to put reporters on the story for great lengths of time.
0:09:16 > 0:09:18"It takes a lot of hard work.
0:09:18 > 0:09:21"And plus the fact, the man, probably, is going to be re-elected
0:09:21 > 0:09:25"and people don't want to take the chance of being out on the line
0:09:25 > 0:09:29"if he comes in to office, having criticised him, cos he's a very
0:09:29 > 0:09:30"vindictive man.
0:09:30 > 0:09:34- But all this did happen - the two reporters from the Washington Post...- Right.
0:09:34 > 0:09:37..were backed by the editor, Bradlee and by the owner Katharine Graham
0:09:37 > 0:09:40and they tracked the story down. It's significant that they weren't
0:09:40 > 0:09:42- political reporters but outside that.- No, they weren't.
0:09:42 > 0:09:45But you did get interested in the story, four weeks after
0:09:45 > 0:09:49the story broke, did you then go instantly up to see Woodward?
0:09:49 > 0:09:55No, I... That was in the summer and I was tired of...of making films.
0:09:55 > 0:09:58And I was tired after The Candidate and I wanted to go away.
0:09:58 > 0:10:00I wanted to go the mountains.
0:10:00 > 0:10:03So I did and I just watched the papers very carefully that
0:10:03 > 0:10:06summer to see if this was going to be true and it was for the most part,
0:10:06 > 0:10:09except every now and then there was this blurb.
0:10:09 > 0:10:12It seemed as though there was this force trying to emerge against
0:10:12 > 0:10:16a very heavy ceiling and, obviously, I was cheering the stories along
0:10:16 > 0:10:18but they would disappear and go underground again
0:10:18 > 0:10:20so when I went back to New York in...
0:10:20 > 0:10:22in September...
0:10:22 > 0:10:27er, the big news broke about the dirty tricks campaign,
0:10:27 > 0:10:31the fact that there was sabotage tactics and dirty tricks and
0:10:31 > 0:10:35a slush fund, illegal. All of it leading to, supposedly,
0:10:35 > 0:10:39inside the White House. And that was Woodward and Bernstein
0:10:39 > 0:10:42and that's when I became aware of them being the two reporters
0:10:42 > 0:10:44that had been breaking these stories all the way along.
0:10:44 > 0:10:48Now, that's not to say that no-one else was doing anything, in fact,
0:10:48 > 0:10:50there were other newspapers that were trying
0:10:50 > 0:10:53but the important thing was that the big newspapers, the powerful
0:10:53 > 0:10:58newspapers and the majority of the press was doing nothing.
0:10:58 > 0:11:01But, in fact, you pushed in, didn't you? And went to see them and in,
0:11:01 > 0:11:03er, bought the rights before they had written the book?
0:11:03 > 0:11:06- I went to see them shortly after Nixon was re-elected.- Yeah.
0:11:06 > 0:11:10And they were at their lowest, they had bottomed-out and everyone felt
0:11:10 > 0:11:13that they were wrong and they were getting castigated pretty well,
0:11:13 > 0:11:17by, not only, the administration but by the public and so on.
0:11:17 > 0:11:20So, that interested me, that interested me most.
0:11:20 > 0:11:25Up to that point I had been mostly interested as a private citizen.
0:11:25 > 0:11:28Then I became interested from the standpoint of it being
0:11:28 > 0:11:32possible film material because of the two... the difference of
0:11:32 > 0:11:35the two characters, they were such contrasting types,
0:11:35 > 0:11:39it seemed good material to me for film, so I contacted them,
0:11:39 > 0:11:42had difficulty at first, they didn't want to talk to me.
0:11:42 > 0:11:44I don't think they believed I was calling.
0:11:44 > 0:11:47And they were frightened at the time, also, it was not a...
0:11:47 > 0:11:49not an easy place to be in Washington
0:11:49 > 0:11:53in those days, there was a great deal of fear that prevailed.
0:11:53 > 0:11:56And so when I finally was able to make the contact, it was with Woodward.
0:11:56 > 0:11:59And I said, "Look, I don't want to go through this back and forth.
0:11:59 > 0:12:02"I sense you don't trust me and you don't know who I am.
0:12:02 > 0:12:04"Let me come to Washington and I'll... In ten minutes, I'll
0:12:04 > 0:12:06"tell you what I have in mind."
0:12:06 > 0:12:09So I did and when he was...
0:12:09 > 0:12:13when I did that, he seemed slightly interested and it took months,
0:12:13 > 0:12:15it took three months before we finally all sat down
0:12:15 > 0:12:17and came together and I said,
0:12:17 > 0:12:18"This is...
0:12:18 > 0:12:21"what I'm interested in doing and if you say 'yes', fine, if not, fine."
0:12:21 > 0:12:22And they said, "Fine."
0:12:22 > 0:12:27- But you, at the start, were going to make a low-budget film.- Uh-hm.- And you weren't even going to appear...
0:12:27 > 0:12:30- In black and white.- And you weren't going to appear in it yourself. - Right.
0:12:30 > 0:12:33When did it change, when did you decide that you had to appear in it?
0:12:33 > 0:12:36When Warner Bros paid so much money for the film, they said -
0:12:36 > 0:12:39"Of course, you're going to appear in it, aren't you?"
0:12:39 > 0:12:41- And that was that? - That was that. That was that.
0:12:41 > 0:12:44And then you came across Dustin Hoffman after quite a while, it turns out,
0:12:44 > 0:12:47he was rather surprised you didn't get there earlier.
0:12:47 > 0:12:51Well, we wanted to give him... His career was sagging and we wanted to give it a boost.
0:12:51 > 0:12:52- What are you doing? - Polishing a little.
0:12:52 > 0:12:55- You what...?- Polishing. - What's wrong with it?
0:12:55 > 0:12:58- Nothing, nothing, it's good. - Then what are you doing with it?
0:12:58 > 0:13:01I'm just helping, it's a little fuzzy.
0:13:01 > 0:13:04- May I have it?- I don't think you're saying what you mean.
0:13:04 > 0:13:06- I know exactly what I mean. - Not here, I can't tell from this
0:13:06 > 0:13:08whether Hunt works for Colson or Colson works for him.
0:13:08 > 0:13:13- May I have it, please?- And some of your conclusions aren't...- May I...? - Yes, I'm not looking for a fight.
0:13:13 > 0:13:17- I'm not looking for a fight either. - I'm just aware of the fact that you only been here nine months.
0:13:17 > 0:13:19What has that got to do with anything?
0:13:19 > 0:13:21- I've been in the business since I'm 16.- What are you saying?
0:13:21 > 0:13:24Well, I'm trying to tell you that if you'd read mine and
0:13:24 > 0:13:26- then read yours... - May I read yours?- Yeah.
0:13:26 > 0:13:29I walked by, gave yours a glance, didn't look right
0:13:29 > 0:13:31so I figured I'd refine it a little. The first paragraph
0:13:31 > 0:13:34has to have more clarity. The reader's got to understand,
0:13:34 > 0:13:36you don't mention Colson's name till the third paragraph.
0:13:36 > 0:13:39I think mine's better but you go ahead and read it,
0:13:39 > 0:13:42if you think yours is better we'll give yours to the desk. I got Colson's name up front.
0:13:43 > 0:13:46- He's a White House consultant and nobody knows it.- You're right.
0:13:47 > 0:13:49Yours is better.
0:13:49 > 0:13:51MUSIC: "Parkinson Theme"
0:13:51 > 0:13:54Four years later, Robert Redford was back in Britain
0:13:54 > 0:13:57for an appearance on Parkinson that he almost missed.
0:13:57 > 0:14:01A security guard didn't want to let him into the studios because
0:14:01 > 0:14:03he didn't have a pass.
0:14:03 > 0:14:06When he said, "But I'm Robert Redford,"
0:14:06 > 0:14:09the guard answered, "They all say that."
0:14:09 > 0:14:12And that wasn't the only rough ride that he got on that visit.
0:14:12 > 0:14:15I said, "Welcome," to you but you must have thought, actually,
0:14:15 > 0:14:17that not everybody here welcomed you,
0:14:17 > 0:14:20when you read this extraordinary bitchy article in a
0:14:20 > 0:14:24newspaper today - I won't even give the writer a name but it's...
0:14:24 > 0:14:26I have a name you can give him.
0:14:26 > 0:14:28- LAUGHTER - What's that...?
0:14:28 > 0:14:29I don't want to say.
0:14:29 > 0:14:32Erm, it's all a based on the theme that you, I suppose,
0:14:32 > 0:14:36wouldn't give them an interview. It says here - it's extraordinary -
0:14:36 > 0:14:39it said that the reason why you don't have any press photographs
0:14:39 > 0:14:41is you don't want anyone to see how,
0:14:41 > 0:14:44"In the wrong light, his face is a little lumpy, these days."
0:14:46 > 0:14:49Well... I've taken my lumps but er...
0:14:49 > 0:14:52I don't know... I couldn't understand it, I...
0:14:52 > 0:14:54- it was like, "Welcome to London."- Yeah, wasn't it?
0:14:54 > 0:14:57Yeah, I couldn't understand why, I'd never met the person.
0:14:57 > 0:14:59I didn't... I wasn't familiar with the paper.
0:14:59 > 0:15:02I'm kind of used to those things being done but not
0:15:02 > 0:15:03to that degree, that was...
0:15:03 > 0:15:07He also says of me that I won't ask the question that millions of viewers -
0:15:07 > 0:15:10who are undoubtedly now, sitting in his backroom at home -
0:15:10 > 0:15:12would like to put, and it's this.
0:15:12 > 0:15:14And I don't understand it, perhaps you do?
0:15:14 > 0:15:17"Mr Redford, why is it that you the actor who projects himself
0:15:17 > 0:15:20"as an establishment outcast, as the star who won't toe the line
0:15:20 > 0:15:23"and play the Hollywood game according to studio rules,
0:15:23 > 0:15:26"always cast yourself as the hero in every picture you make?
0:15:26 > 0:15:29"And never in a role that will engender anything less than
0:15:29 > 0:15:32"the audience's total sympathy?"
0:15:32 > 0:15:35Well, it's... first of all I never had that option when I first started.
0:15:35 > 0:15:38When I first started as an actor I was just an actor for hire
0:15:38 > 0:15:41and I had no option as to what roles I could play, really.
0:15:41 > 0:15:44I didn't choose the roles, I certainly didn't cast myself,
0:15:44 > 0:15:45otherwise...
0:15:45 > 0:15:48my career would have started a lot longer ago.
0:15:48 > 0:15:50Uh...
0:15:50 > 0:15:53As far as playing the good guy, I don't think the person who
0:15:53 > 0:15:58wrote that article researched it very well. I think the emotions run...
0:15:58 > 0:16:01- run the line.- And you've turned down, in fact, roles that
0:16:01 > 0:16:05- would have enhanced that image of the good guy.- Yeah.
0:16:05 > 0:16:07You've turned down, what, The Graduate, didn't you?
0:16:07 > 0:16:10- Yes, that's true.- And Love Story?
0:16:10 > 0:16:13- Yeah.- You made a wise choice there, actually, but anyway...
0:16:13 > 0:16:15LAUGHTER
0:16:15 > 0:16:18Also, just one other point before we throw this away.
0:16:18 > 0:16:21The allegation here too, in the article is that you don't have
0:16:21 > 0:16:24a sense of humour at all. "You are a very sombre man without humour."
0:16:24 > 0:16:28And the example here is of a practical joke that, Robert...
0:16:28 > 0:16:30Paul Newman played on you, which, apparently,
0:16:30 > 0:16:32you did not see the humour of.
0:16:32 > 0:16:35Now, I know, in fact, the opposite to be true so could you tell us that story?
0:16:35 > 0:16:38The story behind that is that...
0:16:38 > 0:16:43Paul and I have done a couple of films together and we...
0:16:43 > 0:16:47played jokes on one another and he's obsessed with racing.
0:16:47 > 0:16:51And, he would get so boring talking about racing
0:16:51 > 0:16:53that...sometimes I just couldn't take it.
0:16:53 > 0:16:56And so on his 50th birthday in Connecticut, we had
0:16:56 > 0:16:58homes that weren't so far from each other,
0:16:58 > 0:17:01I was running a home in Connecticut.
0:17:01 > 0:17:03And he had lived there for quite a few years.
0:17:03 > 0:17:05I found an old, wrecked Porsche,
0:17:05 > 0:17:10a 1964 Porsche that had been completely demolished
0:17:10 > 0:17:14and so I had the thing wrapped up. I bought it, had it wrapped up
0:17:14 > 0:17:19and delivered to his backdoor as a 50th-birthday present.
0:17:19 > 0:17:21LAUGHTER
0:17:21 > 0:17:25And then walked away from it and then waited to hear. OK?
0:17:25 > 0:17:29Uh... About... And he didn't say anything.
0:17:29 > 0:17:31LAUGHTER
0:17:31 > 0:17:35About three weeks later I came to my house and in the foyer
0:17:35 > 0:17:39of the house was this huge package, I mean, huge, really huge.
0:17:39 > 0:17:44And I opened it, I un-crated it and it was this gigantic...
0:17:44 > 0:17:48block of metal that had been melted down from an old, wrecked car.
0:17:48 > 0:17:50LAUGHTER
0:17:50 > 0:17:54And so I thought, "OK, now I like that." I though that was really good.
0:17:54 > 0:17:56So I didn't mention it to him.
0:17:56 > 0:17:57LAUGHTER
0:17:57 > 0:17:59I couldn't get it out of the house either and...
0:17:59 > 0:18:03so I just let it sit there for weeks on end, finally he couldn't take it -
0:18:03 > 0:18:06and I would see him from time to time, we'd see each other socially,
0:18:06 > 0:18:08our families would get together.
0:18:08 > 0:18:10And finally he couldn't take it any more, he said,
0:18:10 > 0:18:12"Say, you have been to the house?"
0:18:12 > 0:18:13LAUGHTER
0:18:13 > 0:18:16"I've been to the house." And he said, "Anything different there?"
0:18:16 > 0:18:19And I said, "No, why? Oh, the basement was leaking."
0:18:19 > 0:18:23And he said, "Nothing else...?" And I said, "No, no." And it drove him crazy.
0:18:23 > 0:18:25So he went to the people who had delivered the thing,
0:18:25 > 0:18:30at some great cost it cost, like, 75 just to deliver this thing.
0:18:30 > 0:18:34I then made arrangements to have this wrecking company come and take it
0:18:34 > 0:18:37out of the house. I then had it melted down further
0:18:37 > 0:18:40and hired a sculptor to do a piece of garden sculpture
0:18:40 > 0:18:42and had it delivered back to his garden.
0:18:42 > 0:18:44LAUGHTER
0:18:44 > 0:18:46As far as I know that's where it still is now.
0:18:46 > 0:18:48It may end up as a ring on somebody's finger.
0:18:48 > 0:18:49LAUGHTER
0:18:49 > 0:18:51But that's the true story behind it, I don't what...
0:18:51 > 0:18:55Let's talk a little about the contradictions that seem to me to be
0:18:55 > 0:18:57in your story when you look at it.
0:18:57 > 0:19:01You had what would seem to be a very secure middle-class upbringing
0:19:01 > 0:19:05and yet you dropped out of university. Why?
0:19:05 > 0:19:07Well, I wasn't a good student
0:19:07 > 0:19:11and it seemed like a good reason to drop out and, uh,
0:19:11 > 0:19:15I was also not interested, I was not ready to be educated, at least,
0:19:15 > 0:19:19in the formal, normal academic manner.
0:19:19 > 0:19:24Uh, I felt that - and I had for some time, since I was very young -
0:19:24 > 0:19:28that I learned more from travel and experience than by sitting in a
0:19:28 > 0:19:30classroom, particularly in the school system that
0:19:30 > 0:19:33I was raised in which was very poor, in the state of California.
0:19:33 > 0:19:36It was a lower-middle-class upbringing in an...
0:19:36 > 0:19:38area that wasn't...
0:19:38 > 0:19:42that wasn't privileged at all and so there was no real
0:19:42 > 0:19:45stimulation to my background and education.
0:19:45 > 0:19:49I spent most of my time looking out windows and doodling and sketching
0:19:49 > 0:19:51and cutting class and things of that sort.
0:19:51 > 0:19:56So it was never really meant to be, me and the academic institutions.
0:19:56 > 0:19:59I really was meant to leave it early or start later,
0:19:59 > 0:20:00so I left it early.
0:20:00 > 0:20:04And you went on what one newspaper called a "drunken spree"
0:20:04 > 0:20:06driving around America.
0:20:06 > 0:20:08Was it very drunken?
0:20:08 > 0:20:12Well, it was... It was quite long.
0:20:12 > 0:20:14LAUGHTER
0:20:14 > 0:20:16Quite a few years. I didn't...
0:20:16 > 0:20:19There was not any one continual drive under...
0:20:19 > 0:20:23I was just in and out of...
0:20:23 > 0:20:25I was inebriated on a few occasions when I was younger
0:20:25 > 0:20:29but no more so than anybody my age in that condition.
0:20:29 > 0:20:32I was not happy in the condition that I grew up in, the environment.
0:20:32 > 0:20:36It wasn't an environment that was... It wasn't Oliver Twist
0:20:36 > 0:20:37- by any means.- No.
0:20:37 > 0:20:41It was an environment that was oppressively conventional.
0:20:41 > 0:20:44And normal to the point of distraction.
0:20:44 > 0:20:47And I guess I had impulses and desires that wanted to
0:20:47 > 0:20:49go out and do other things and I didn't feel that
0:20:49 > 0:20:51I had the opportunity or the support to do that.
0:20:51 > 0:20:53And I seemed to be moving in this direction
0:20:53 > 0:20:56and the tide seemed to be moving in that direction.
0:20:56 > 0:20:59It was a place in those days where the ethic was -
0:20:59 > 0:21:02not so much whether you - particularly in athletics,
0:21:02 > 0:21:06where I centred myself - not so much whether you won or lost
0:21:06 > 0:21:10but how you played the game and I felt, I found out,
0:21:10 > 0:21:12that that was a false legacy.
0:21:12 > 0:21:17Uh, you had that. You had a very, very strong impression created that
0:21:17 > 0:21:21life was wonderful. It had a lot to do with growing up in
0:21:21 > 0:21:24- California where the sun did always shine.- Yeah.
0:21:24 > 0:21:27And the... There was this tremendous post-war boom
0:21:27 > 0:21:30that was going on that had this multiplication
0:21:30 > 0:21:34of appliance stores and fast-food chains and supermarkets.
0:21:34 > 0:21:38And all this thrust towards centralisation
0:21:38 > 0:21:40and clutter.
0:21:40 > 0:21:45And there wasn't, for me, at that age, much of a sign of real
0:21:45 > 0:21:48quality of life until I moved outside into the mountains
0:21:48 > 0:21:51or the desert and so I wanted to leave.
0:21:51 > 0:21:55You, in fact, were down and out in Paris for a while as well, weren't you?
0:21:55 > 0:21:57- Yes. - Tell us how down and out you were.
0:21:57 > 0:22:00Well, I was down... That was about the only thing, by the way,
0:22:00 > 0:22:05this guy mentions in this article, that had a modicum of real truth to it.
0:22:05 > 0:22:09He talks about standing in manure, uh, up to my neck.
0:22:10 > 0:22:13Now, that's not true, I was up to my waist.
0:22:13 > 0:22:15LAUGHTER
0:22:15 > 0:22:20It was in a little town called Troyes just outside of Paris and I was
0:22:20 > 0:22:22hitchhiking to the South of France.
0:22:22 > 0:22:24And it was so cold...
0:22:24 > 0:22:26and I had no way to get warm, I had no place to go, I had
0:22:26 > 0:22:29very little money and I was running back and forth on the street corner
0:22:29 > 0:22:31waiting for a ride and it didn't come.
0:22:31 > 0:22:35And it was the middle of the night and the town had closed up
0:22:35 > 0:22:38and finally I just got tired of running and I started to get
0:22:38 > 0:22:40worried that I wasn't going to be able to really get warm.
0:22:40 > 0:22:43And across the street was this mound of manure.
0:22:43 > 0:22:46And so I went over there and just planted myself in it
0:22:46 > 0:22:48and stayed there for a while until dawn came
0:22:48 > 0:22:50and I could go into a pastry shop...
0:22:50 > 0:22:52LAUGHTER
0:22:52 > 0:22:55Needless to say, it was tough to get a piece of pastry.
0:22:55 > 0:22:57LAUGHTER
0:22:57 > 0:22:59The time in Paris was... You know,
0:22:59 > 0:23:02you look back on it in retrospect and you wonder how much of it was
0:23:02 > 0:23:04romanticised and how much of it was really fact.
0:23:04 > 0:23:06It seemed to me,
0:23:06 > 0:23:10at the time, the time was rough, the going was rough
0:23:10 > 0:23:12but I don't know how much of that was induced
0:23:12 > 0:23:15because of the sheer romance of going to Paris, getting out of California,
0:23:15 > 0:23:17getting out of the United States and really beginning
0:23:17 > 0:23:20to feel like I was learning, which I never felt before.
0:23:20 > 0:23:23Well, let's move on in your career now to a point
0:23:23 > 0:23:26where you are making movies and I suppose the film that did,
0:23:26 > 0:23:29in fact, make it for you was Butch Cassidy, wasn't it?
0:23:29 > 0:23:31That was the film that really started it.
0:23:31 > 0:23:34Yeah, that was the film that went out of whack.
0:23:34 > 0:23:37- I had made films before...- Before then.- There was one film that was
0:23:37 > 0:23:40successful before that, in America anyway,
0:23:40 > 0:23:44- but nothing to that degree where it got outsized.- Mm.
0:23:44 > 0:23:48That film was a film that, for me, was very comfortable.
0:23:48 > 0:23:52The studio didn't want me in that film, because I was not known.
0:23:52 > 0:23:57They were trying to have a star comparable to Paul to be with him.
0:23:57 > 0:24:00And, I practically did it for nothing, that film,
0:24:00 > 0:24:02because I just felt comfortable playing that role.
0:24:02 > 0:24:05So, it was an enjoyable... I probably had more fun making that film
0:24:05 > 0:24:07than any film that I've made.
0:24:07 > 0:24:11Have you got any other films that you've got in the pipeline?
0:24:11 > 0:24:15A film called Brubaker which comes out in June in America.
0:24:15 > 0:24:17About a prison-reform warden.
0:24:17 > 0:24:21It's too long and complicated, probably, to go into here,
0:24:21 > 0:24:24and a film that I directed, the first film that I directed
0:24:24 > 0:24:27called Ordinary People, which I'm editing right now.
0:24:27 > 0:24:30Is that a direction that you more and more want to go into?
0:24:30 > 0:24:33- Direction?- Yes, I think so. - Really?- Yes, absolutely.
0:24:33 > 0:24:37It was very fulfilling, more than I expected.
0:24:37 > 0:24:41And, acting is not going to last for ever, if for very long, so...
0:24:41 > 0:24:44- Why shouldn't it last for ever? - I just don't think it will.
0:24:44 > 0:24:46I don't know why, really. I guess I don't have an answer for that.
0:24:46 > 0:24:48It's just something in me
0:24:48 > 0:24:51that says I don't think it will, I-I think.
0:24:51 > 0:24:56I've been treated well by a career and I've enjoyed it.
0:24:56 > 0:24:58I think it's time to move on.
0:24:58 > 0:25:02I don't know when that will be or how radical,
0:25:02 > 0:25:04but I don't think I'll act for...
0:25:04 > 0:25:08Do you think that actors like some athletes, perhaps,
0:25:08 > 0:25:11tend to hang on for too long?
0:25:11 > 0:25:14- Yeah, I do.- Do you?- Yes, I do. It seems to be an irrevocable
0:25:14 > 0:25:18situation, something that can't be helped.
0:25:18 > 0:25:21I think of the athletes in my country, I think of Willie Mays,
0:25:21 > 0:25:24I think of Joe Louis, I think of Joe Namath,
0:25:24 > 0:25:27I think of all these... and now Muhammad Ali...
0:25:27 > 0:25:29it will be interesting to see what he does.
0:25:29 > 0:25:31Really wonderful athletes.
0:25:31 > 0:25:33Very few of them had the...
0:25:34 > 0:25:38..had the disposition to quit when the time was right.
0:25:38 > 0:25:42Very few people I ever know of have been able to quit
0:25:42 > 0:25:44when the time was right to quit and either move onto something else
0:25:44 > 0:25:48- or stop.- Who was the... Was there an actor that you admire
0:25:48 > 0:25:50who did quit at the right time, do you think?
0:25:51 > 0:25:54- Or you admire for quitting when he was at the top?- Yeah, Jimmy Cagney.
0:25:54 > 0:25:58- Really?- Jimmy Cagney is the only actor that I can think of...
0:25:58 > 0:26:02who did it right. I have great admiration for him.
0:26:02 > 0:26:05Not only as a talent, I think he's one of the greatest talents
0:26:05 > 0:26:08that our country ever produced. As a matter of fact,
0:26:08 > 0:26:12- I patterned the character I played in The Sting after Jimmy Cagney.- Really?
0:26:12 > 0:26:14Uh-hm. And um...
0:26:15 > 0:26:21I just admire the fact that he had so much talent, used it wisely, fully,
0:26:21 > 0:26:25let his work speak for him. I don't think that Jimmy Cagney ever
0:26:25 > 0:26:29had to do a lot of publicity. I think he let his work speak for him,
0:26:29 > 0:26:31that's what I believe in doing for myself.
0:26:31 > 0:26:34I think it's the best, the best spokesman for yourself
0:26:34 > 0:26:38is your work. It's like a painting, if you don't,
0:26:38 > 0:26:40if you don't understand it, you don't understand it.
0:26:40 > 0:26:43The artist standing there explaining what the diagonals mean
0:26:43 > 0:26:46isn't going to help your emotional reaction to the painting.
0:26:46 > 0:26:49You either respond to a performance on the screen or a film or you don't
0:26:49 > 0:26:52and I'm happy to live with that condition.
0:26:52 > 0:26:54And don't feel the need, really, to explain myself.
0:26:54 > 0:26:56I don't think Cagney did.
0:26:56 > 0:27:00And I think, his work and his career stands as a testimony to the kind
0:27:00 > 0:27:06of man he was and he quit, when it was time to quit, I admire that.
0:27:06 > 0:27:09Of course, Robert Redford didn't stop acting.
0:27:09 > 0:27:15There were more hits, notably Out Of Africa but he did branch out.
0:27:15 > 0:27:19Ordinary People, that directorial debut he mentioned to Mike Parkinson
0:27:19 > 0:27:22won him an Oscar and more acclaimed films would follow.
0:27:22 > 0:27:24MUSIC: "Film 93 Theme"
0:27:24 > 0:27:30One of those was A River Runs Through It, starring a young Brad Pitt.
0:27:30 > 0:27:33Which led to a Film 93 special with Barry Norman.
0:27:33 > 0:27:35OK...
0:27:44 > 0:27:46OK...
0:27:51 > 0:27:53They're both marvellous.
0:27:55 > 0:27:57HE CHUCKLES
0:28:02 > 0:28:04I'd say the Lord has blessed us all today.
0:28:10 > 0:28:11CLEARS HIS THROAT
0:28:14 > 0:28:17It's just that he's been particularly good to me.
0:28:17 > 0:28:21It must be, particularly gratifying for you to see a
0:28:21 > 0:28:24River Runs Through It not only on and made but doing well,
0:28:24 > 0:28:28because I gather you had great trouble, first of all, acquiring
0:28:28 > 0:28:31the screen rights and then, even more trouble, raising the money.
0:28:31 > 0:28:35- Is that right? - Yes, it's true.
0:28:35 > 0:28:38Difficulty obtaining the rights because the author,
0:28:38 > 0:28:42first of all he was in his 80s. It took him 40 years to write the book
0:28:42 > 0:28:48and it took him 40 years to cough up this deeply-personal story.
0:28:48 > 0:28:52Because of the pain and the burden he was carrying,
0:28:52 > 0:28:55that created a certain ambivalence
0:28:55 > 0:28:58that he didn't give up easily.
0:28:58 > 0:29:02And so there was that sort of courtship period that
0:29:02 > 0:29:06went on for, well, five years, really, about five years.
0:29:06 > 0:29:09So, it was tough, it also was a project because of its nature
0:29:09 > 0:29:12that didn't fit the current formula of films that are, essentially,
0:29:12 > 0:29:14sort of...
0:29:14 > 0:29:16running Hollywood.
0:29:16 > 0:29:19I mean, Hollywood is a business, it's... That's what it is,
0:29:19 > 0:29:22make no mistake about it so, since that's what it is, you can imagine
0:29:22 > 0:29:26the reaction to that storyline. And the tough thing about it was
0:29:26 > 0:29:30that all the themes that are in the film...
0:29:30 > 0:29:33the core of it, it's strength, dramatic strength - very, very hard to explain.
0:29:33 > 0:29:36- Yeah.- So, I thought, "This is going to be tough, because
0:29:36 > 0:29:39"really the best way to explain this film is going to be to see it."
0:29:39 > 0:29:42You seem, as a director anyway, almost perversely, to have chosen
0:29:42 > 0:29:45subjects that are not obviously commercial.
0:29:46 > 0:29:49If you're going to commit a year and a half of your life,
0:29:49 > 0:29:54which is what it takes to direct, conceive and direct and edit a film,
0:29:54 > 0:29:58then you'd better pick something that really is going to have a full
0:29:58 > 0:30:00commitment and a lot of passion. I'm just not
0:30:00 > 0:30:05the kind of director that can just phone it in or do only a part of it.
0:30:05 > 0:30:08And so I just happened to be very intrigued by the idea of trying
0:30:08 > 0:30:13something that's either impossible or appears to be impossible or just plain tough.
0:30:13 > 0:30:15So the idea of taking something that appears not to work
0:30:15 > 0:30:19and finding the human element in it that you can work
0:30:19 > 0:30:22and get at if you can do it, sometimes it doesn't work
0:30:22 > 0:30:24but if you can do it and bring it out so that
0:30:24 > 0:30:27the audiences have a...
0:30:27 > 0:30:30a kind of an emotional accessibility to the subject,
0:30:30 > 0:30:32that's very appealing to me.
0:30:32 > 0:30:36Ordinary People, after all, was your first film as a director and you won the Oscar
0:30:36 > 0:30:39and that was in 1980. And you've only directed two more since.
0:30:39 > 0:30:43Now, that... Why is that? That's kind of puzzling.
0:30:43 > 0:30:47Well, I know, it's... largely because I chose to do other things
0:30:47 > 0:30:50for half of the '80s - when I finished Ordinary People,
0:30:50 > 0:30:53that sort of
0:30:53 > 0:30:56capped a...a chapter in my life, a section of my life
0:30:56 > 0:31:01that was full of a lot of hard work. The whole '70s was just one...
0:31:01 > 0:31:03one project after the next.
0:31:03 > 0:31:07And since I'd sort of set a goal to direct at the end of that,
0:31:07 > 0:31:09I thought, "Well, I've done that.
0:31:09 > 0:31:11"There was a lot of satisfaction in it,
0:31:11 > 0:31:14"now it's time to take some time because you can just keep working,
0:31:14 > 0:31:18"keep working and pretty soon you don't see the forest from the trees."
0:31:18 > 0:31:20And beyond that I wanted to put something back
0:31:20 > 0:31:23in my industry. I have a, sort of, old-fashioned sensibility
0:31:23 > 0:31:25about that being a good idea.
0:31:25 > 0:31:28And I thought the way to do that was to start this institute out at
0:31:28 > 0:31:32Sundance, at my place, sponsoring independent film-makers.
0:31:32 > 0:31:36Trying to keep diversity alive on the idea that that's a valuable part of
0:31:36 > 0:31:38our industry, the diversity of it.
0:31:38 > 0:31:40And, as films were getting more central and more expensive
0:31:40 > 0:31:43and tending to get more of a formula I thought, "Well, this is good,
0:31:43 > 0:31:47"cos we'll keep..." you know, more diverse storytelling alive
0:31:47 > 0:31:49and new talent which Hollywood always needs so
0:31:49 > 0:31:52the film-maker will come through the institute which is
0:31:52 > 0:31:54a development place.
0:31:54 > 0:31:57Develop their skills and take their project wherever they want to
0:31:57 > 0:32:00take it, that's what independence is, it is not saying anti-Hollywood
0:32:00 > 0:32:04cos I'm not anti-Hollywood, I work within Hollywood but I'm
0:32:04 > 0:32:07an independent person working within the system.
0:32:07 > 0:32:10During that... During the '80s when you were not only establishing
0:32:10 > 0:32:12the Sundance Institute but
0:32:12 > 0:32:15you got very heavily involved in environmental work
0:32:15 > 0:32:17in the United States.
0:32:17 > 0:32:19A kind of image of a split personality comes across.
0:32:19 > 0:32:22On the one hand there's Robert Redford, the megastar
0:32:22 > 0:32:25and on the other hand there's this other Redford who, I think, you said yourself,
0:32:25 > 0:32:29"seems to have acquired an Eagle Scout badge somewhere."
0:32:29 > 0:32:31Was the Eagle Scout there all the time or did
0:32:31 > 0:32:34you suddenly wake up one day to find him lurking within you?
0:32:34 > 0:32:38God, no. First of all I was...kicked out of the boy scouts as a kid.
0:32:38 > 0:32:42BARRY LAUGHS We should all reveal that right now.
0:32:42 > 0:32:45And it was especially tough because my father was the scout master.
0:32:45 > 0:32:47- Wow!- So that tells you how bad...
0:32:47 > 0:32:50It's like your father being the umpire in a game when they eject you.
0:32:52 > 0:32:55I was not made for group activity, I just wasn't
0:32:55 > 0:32:59and so I never made it in the scouts, I also got very impatient with it...
0:33:00 > 0:33:03So, I hardly thought of myself as a boy scout.
0:33:03 > 0:33:06And it did just sort of appear out of nowhere.
0:33:06 > 0:33:10I spent a good deal of my early life getting over the idea that
0:33:10 > 0:33:12I was bad, you know,
0:33:12 > 0:33:15and trying to get around the notion I was doing a lot of bad things,
0:33:15 > 0:33:16at least a lot of wrong things
0:33:16 > 0:33:21so suddenly to find this sort of image emerging, it was, it was...
0:33:21 > 0:33:23It was puzzling, it was, first of all, kind of humorous
0:33:23 > 0:33:25and a lot of my close,
0:33:25 > 0:33:30a lot of my close friends got a big kick out of it and then it got
0:33:30 > 0:33:34- disturbing because of the tendency, you know, to stereotype.- Yeah.
0:33:34 > 0:33:39And sometimes the stereotyping can become like barnacles on a ship
0:33:39 > 0:33:43or can sort of calcify your work.
0:33:43 > 0:33:45And because of the political work I was doing
0:33:45 > 0:33:49there seemed to be this image that was brought about by -
0:33:49 > 0:33:52I think it was more by lazy journalism than anything,
0:33:52 > 0:33:56- cos there was a whole lot... - There's a lot of that about.- Yeah.
0:33:56 > 0:33:57Yeah, there is and...
0:33:57 > 0:34:00But there was lot of opposition to what I was doing too,
0:34:00 > 0:34:03you could talk to a lot of the opposing sides of some of the stands
0:34:03 > 0:34:04I was taking
0:34:04 > 0:34:08and they would hardly consider me, you know, a do-gooder
0:34:08 > 0:34:10or a boy scout. They thought...
0:34:10 > 0:34:12- In fact, I heard the word "evil". - Evil?!
0:34:12 > 0:34:15- Yeah, I did.- Really? You? I can't believe it.
0:34:15 > 0:34:17The old boy scout.
0:34:17 > 0:34:20You had a marvellous spell between, what, 1969 and 1979
0:34:20 > 0:34:24when you made 15 movies and there was Butch and Sundance,
0:34:24 > 0:34:27- which must be a big film in your career?- Yeah, sure,
0:34:27 > 0:34:30it was the most fun of anything I've ever done.
0:34:30 > 0:34:32And that was really... I suppose that was the one
0:34:32 > 0:34:36- that boosted you to big, big stardom?- Yeah.
0:34:36 > 0:34:40- Yeah, it was.- So, I imagine you're grateful to it for that.- Sure, yeah.
0:34:40 > 0:34:43And then you went on, of course, after that to act again with Paul
0:34:43 > 0:34:47Newman in The Sting, have you ever thought of working with him again?
0:34:47 > 0:34:50I have. You know, it beats me since Hollywood is so formula-oriented,
0:34:50 > 0:34:53you would have thought that somebody would have come up with a script
0:34:53 > 0:34:57that we could do but no-one ever has and we have always wanted to do
0:34:57 > 0:35:00something together, I mean, we're friends and we like working together.
0:35:00 > 0:35:02But it's never come around.
0:35:02 > 0:35:06Of those films, those two that I mentioned, All The President's Men,
0:35:06 > 0:35:09are they also, kind of, milestone films in your career.
0:35:09 > 0:35:12I mean, would you look back on those with particular pride?
0:35:12 > 0:35:16Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That was a tremendous milestone cos it
0:35:16 > 0:35:19was so hard to... again you were going against such odds
0:35:19 > 0:35:23because everyone thought, no-one wants to hear about Watergate.
0:35:24 > 0:35:26It's a dead issue and you're tackling
0:35:26 > 0:35:31the issue of investigative journalism which is even worse so...
0:35:31 > 0:35:36and it took three years to make, I mean, to really get to the screen
0:35:36 > 0:35:38and you were dealing with historical fact
0:35:38 > 0:35:41and you had to be very careful and...
0:35:41 > 0:35:43So that was a big milestone, yeah.
0:35:43 > 0:35:46But what kind of film roles are you going to be
0:35:46 > 0:35:48looking for in the future?
0:35:48 > 0:35:50Are you still going to be the romantic leading man?
0:35:53 > 0:35:57I don't know. I mean, that's not been a reason for choosing a role,
0:35:57 > 0:35:59I choose the role in terms of the character and what
0:35:59 > 0:36:03the framework that the character is in in terms of the situation.
0:36:03 > 0:36:06Erm, I don't think there's anything wrong with heroes, mind you.
0:36:06 > 0:36:11I remember reading once - "Well, Redford only plays heroes."
0:36:11 > 0:36:15That wasn't quite true, but on the other hand, if it was true,
0:36:15 > 0:36:18so what? What's the matter with that?
0:36:18 > 0:36:20There's nothing wrong with that, some people only play villains.
0:36:20 > 0:36:24There's nothing wrong with playing characters that might inspire
0:36:24 > 0:36:26people to do better in their lives
0:36:26 > 0:36:29or to have a little bit more courage about something or whatever.
0:36:29 > 0:36:32It just... It was another distortion, I think,
0:36:32 > 0:36:35that came because there were a lot of parts I played that were...
0:36:35 > 0:36:37villainous and downright heels.
0:36:37 > 0:36:40As you get older and, alas, the looks will fade,
0:36:40 > 0:36:44I'm afraid they do eventually. Will that make life easier for you
0:36:44 > 0:36:47or does it make life, will it make life harder?
0:36:47 > 0:36:50Well, I hope not, I mean, obviously...
0:36:52 > 0:36:55I like the idea of just going the way I'm going to go
0:36:55 > 0:36:57and having it be all right.
0:36:57 > 0:37:00What doesn't interest me is trying to...
0:37:00 > 0:37:02in any way freeze myself in time.
0:37:03 > 0:37:05You know...physically...
0:37:05 > 0:37:09that would just be too exhausting, I wouldn't want to have to live with that.
0:37:09 > 0:37:11Also, I like the idea of what happens to people as they get older
0:37:11 > 0:37:14because they carry with them their life's experience.
0:37:14 > 0:37:19When you start surgically altering it too much you remove...
0:37:19 > 0:37:23what your life is, that doesn't appeal to me very much.
0:37:23 > 0:37:27And again, if it hurt the work, sure I would be disappointed in that.
0:37:27 > 0:37:30I think America's pretty much of a youth culture
0:37:30 > 0:37:35and there's an obsession with youth and looks which
0:37:35 > 0:37:39is disturbing, maybe it will just take having to get older?
0:37:39 > 0:37:41Before it'll get out of it, I don't know.
0:37:41 > 0:37:44Well, getting older hasn't harmed Paul Newman a great deal,
0:37:44 > 0:37:46has it, for instance?
0:37:46 > 0:37:48Well, Paul is senile.
0:37:48 > 0:37:51- He is.- He's gone.- I'd heard that. - He's completely gone.
0:37:51 > 0:37:54It's very sad, he looks OK but don't try to talk to him.
0:37:54 > 0:37:57Aww! I'm glad you warned me, I was thinking I might...
0:37:57 > 0:37:59- Don't try to talk to him, you'll look bad.- Yeah.
0:37:59 > 0:38:02- He speaks well of you too, of course.- He can remember?
0:38:02 > 0:38:04LAUGHTER
0:38:04 > 0:38:06- Yeah, Paul's doing great. - Your next project that we're
0:38:06 > 0:38:08going to see here...
0:38:08 > 0:38:10is Indecent Proposal...
0:38:10 > 0:38:11and in that you play what...?
0:38:13 > 0:38:17I play a very wealthy man who has everything and...
0:38:17 > 0:38:20challenges a young couple who are upward mobile...
0:38:22 > 0:38:26..out of money for the moment and trying to get it the easy way,
0:38:26 > 0:38:29trying to get money the easy way.
0:38:29 > 0:38:32Challenges them on the issue of love.
0:38:32 > 0:38:34Is that a one-off or is it...
0:38:34 > 0:38:37have you got a whole slate of things lined-up for the moment?
0:38:37 > 0:38:39There are a lot of things I'd like to do.
0:38:39 > 0:38:42You know, sometimes what you want to do and what you can do
0:38:42 > 0:38:45there is a big gulf in between but there are a lot of things I have in development.
0:38:45 > 0:38:49You know, there's a Western, there's a political comedy, there's...
0:38:49 > 0:38:52there's a whole series to produce and direct involving the
0:38:52 > 0:38:55Tony Hillerman books about two Native American detectives on the
0:38:55 > 0:39:02Indian Reservation. Erm, and there's a film about a man's effort to...
0:39:02 > 0:39:05an editor's effort in a newspaper to...
0:39:05 > 0:39:08to fight the tide of newspapers turning into
0:39:08 > 0:39:13straight business... market-share mentality.
0:39:13 > 0:39:14Erm...
0:39:14 > 0:39:17There's a thriller, I mean, there's a lot.
0:39:17 > 0:39:20It sounds as if this could be a very productive few years coming up.
0:39:20 > 0:39:24It depends if they get developed in the right way and get done, you know.
0:39:24 > 0:39:28River Runs Through It was a ten-year experience from the time I read
0:39:28 > 0:39:30the book to getting it on the screen.
0:39:30 > 0:39:32And...
0:39:32 > 0:39:35a lot of the films I've done have taken a long time to
0:39:35 > 0:39:39get to the screen so it really depends on how quickly that can be done.
0:39:39 > 0:39:41- Thank you very much indeed. - Thank you.
0:39:41 > 0:39:43MUSIC: "Raindrops Keep Fallin' On My Head"
0:39:43 > 0:39:46More than 20 years after that interview Robert Redford shows
0:39:46 > 0:39:49no signs of quitting for the quiet life.
0:39:49 > 0:39:53"I love making films more than anything else" he once said,
0:39:53 > 0:39:54"but it's tough."
0:39:54 > 0:39:58With his love of a challenge perhaps it's that toughness that
0:39:58 > 0:40:00keeps him at it today?
0:40:00 > 0:40:04Still acting, and directing like a man half his age,
0:40:04 > 0:40:08and there's no escaping from it, looking a whole lot
0:40:08 > 0:40:10better than most men half his age do.