0:00:14 > 0:00:17The talent, the looks, the voice.
0:00:19 > 0:00:23For movie-goers in the 1940s, Lauren Bacall had it all.
0:00:23 > 0:00:27And if that wasn't enough, she also had Humphrey Bogart.
0:00:28 > 0:00:30Hollywood's ultimate couple.
0:00:30 > 0:00:35They met on the set of the classic 1944 film To Have and Have Not.
0:00:36 > 0:00:39Aged just 19, Bacall had won the part
0:00:39 > 0:00:43after being spotted on the front of Harper's Bazaar magazine
0:00:43 > 0:00:46by the wife of the film's director, Howard Hawks.
0:00:47 > 0:00:50Her performance caused a sensation,
0:00:50 > 0:00:53making her an international star overnight.
0:00:53 > 0:00:58Even decades later, the chemistry between her and Bogart
0:00:58 > 0:01:02would fascinate an interviewer like Michael Parkinson.
0:01:02 > 0:01:04The core of the story is of a young,
0:01:04 > 0:01:06New York Jewish girl who dreamed of being a star,
0:01:06 > 0:01:10and became one at the age of 18 when Howard Hawks cast her alongside
0:01:10 > 0:01:13Humphrey Bogart in a film called To Have And Have Not.
0:01:13 > 0:01:16And he created something which became known as The Look,
0:01:16 > 0:01:19unwittingly starting one of Hollywood's great love stories
0:01:19 > 0:01:22and manufacturing a moment of cinema that's as fresh today
0:01:22 > 0:01:25as when it happened, 35 years ago.
0:01:31 > 0:01:33Anybody got a match?
0:01:46 > 0:01:48MATCH STRIKES
0:01:54 > 0:01:55Thanks.
0:01:55 > 0:01:58APPLAUSE
0:01:58 > 0:02:02I wish you hadn't mentioned how many years ago it was, Michael.
0:02:02 > 0:02:04- It was 35 years ago. - But I was only two 35 years ago!
0:02:04 > 0:02:05LAUGHTER
0:02:05 > 0:02:06How did that happen?
0:02:06 > 0:02:09Was that contrived, The Look, or was it accidental?
0:02:09 > 0:02:11Well, it was a result of my nerves
0:02:11 > 0:02:14which, if you look very closely, you might see again.
0:02:14 > 0:02:18That I used to shake so much that my head used to shake
0:02:18 > 0:02:22and, you know, in a film, when a director says "action"
0:02:22 > 0:02:25there's dead silence on a set,
0:02:25 > 0:02:28so all eyes are on you, and everything depends upon you.
0:02:28 > 0:02:33And I was such a nervous wreck that I discovered, finally,
0:02:33 > 0:02:36that one way to hold my head still was to hold it down,
0:02:36 > 0:02:40and then the back of my neck got so stiff that nothing would move...
0:02:42 > 0:02:43..and look up.
0:02:43 > 0:02:45And that became The Look.
0:02:45 > 0:02:50But it was that, combined with Howard Hawks's terrific eye,
0:02:50 > 0:02:53and knowing that if the camera was in a certain position
0:02:53 > 0:02:55and there were shadows in the right place -
0:02:55 > 0:02:57which I could do with right now, as a matter of fact...
0:02:57 > 0:02:59LAUGHTER
0:02:59 > 0:03:05It... I mean, it was a combination of what he saw and my panic.
0:03:05 > 0:03:08But how much of what came over, that sultry, sexy,
0:03:08 > 0:03:11sort of worldly look, was the real you at that time?
0:03:11 > 0:03:14- None of it.- No, cos you were, in fact, 18, weren't you?
0:03:14 > 0:03:18I mean, what can you be, you know, when you're 18 years old
0:03:18 > 0:03:24and you know nothing and you have very limited acting experience,
0:03:24 > 0:03:27almost none, and very little life experience?
0:03:27 > 0:03:30- I mean, how sophisticated can you be, for heaven's sakes?- Yeah.
0:03:30 > 0:03:33But if you have a deep voice, and Howard Hawks writes your dialogue
0:03:33 > 0:03:37and directs you and lights you correctly and...
0:03:37 > 0:03:38I mean, you can be anything.
0:03:38 > 0:03:42What was charming about your book, actually, about your early years,
0:03:42 > 0:03:44was this obsession you had about becoming a film star.
0:03:44 > 0:03:46You were really starstruck from an early age.
0:03:46 > 0:03:48But I didn't really want to be a film star.
0:03:48 > 0:03:50- I wanted to be on the stage.- On the stage.
0:03:50 > 0:03:52But I wanted my name in lights, I wanted...
0:03:52 > 0:03:55That dream, I don't know where I got it from because,
0:03:55 > 0:04:00as you know from the book, no-one in my family even came close
0:04:00 > 0:04:04to being in the theatre, or anything in the entertainment world.
0:04:04 > 0:04:08And I was just... I don't know. I just had to do it,
0:04:08 > 0:04:11and I would have done anything, almost anything,
0:04:11 > 0:04:13and I did almost anything...
0:04:13 > 0:04:14LAUGHTER
0:04:14 > 0:04:15..to be recognised.
0:04:15 > 0:04:18You say, of course, that your first ambition was to go on the stage.
0:04:18 > 0:04:20But, in fact, your great heroine at the time
0:04:20 > 0:04:22was a film star, wasn't she?
0:04:22 > 0:04:25Well, of course, because, I mean, films were accessible to me.
0:04:25 > 0:04:26I mean, when I was a kid,
0:04:26 > 0:04:28it was about 20 cents to get into a movie house.
0:04:28 > 0:04:31I mean, to go to the theatre was just so expensive.
0:04:31 > 0:04:33I could never possibly have afforded that.
0:04:33 > 0:04:36Did you think that you had the proper physical attributes
0:04:36 > 0:04:39at the time, when you were 16, 17, to become a film star?
0:04:39 > 0:04:44Oh, Michael, you know I didn't! I was flat-chested and...
0:04:44 > 0:04:45large of foot!
0:04:45 > 0:04:48And...very gawky.
0:04:50 > 0:04:51No, I didn't. And I thought...
0:04:51 > 0:04:54I mean, I always was shy about smiling,
0:04:54 > 0:04:56because my teeth were crooked and...
0:04:56 > 0:04:58God, I don't know, I was a mess!
0:04:58 > 0:05:00I don't know how any of this ever happened.
0:05:00 > 0:05:01LAUGHTER
0:05:01 > 0:05:02And, of course, I mean, you had the looks.
0:05:02 > 0:05:04You can't have been as bad-looking as all that
0:05:04 > 0:05:07because you became a very famous model in America,
0:05:07 > 0:05:09- which is how you got into...- Yes, but that was luck and that was...
0:05:09 > 0:05:12I mean, also, you know, if you're photographed by the right person
0:05:12 > 0:05:15- at the right time, the right way, you look OK.- Yeah, yeah.
0:05:15 > 0:05:18I don't say I was ugly, but I was sure no raving beauty, I'll tell you.
0:05:18 > 0:05:20Yeah. You...
0:05:20 > 0:05:23In the book, the most fascinating chapters,
0:05:23 > 0:05:27and best written, in my view, are the ones which you recount your...
0:05:27 > 0:05:30- Careful! - ..relationship - no - with Bogie.
0:05:30 > 0:05:32It is the centrepiece of the book.
0:05:32 > 0:05:36And, obviously, the man had a profound and lasting effect
0:05:36 > 0:05:38- on your life.- Absolutely. - And I'm delighted that...
0:05:38 > 0:05:41I remember the last time that you came on my show,
0:05:41 > 0:05:43you said that being a widow is not a profession.
0:05:43 > 0:05:46You didn't like talking about that part of your life.
0:05:46 > 0:05:48But you've written about it beautifully well, actually.
0:05:48 > 0:05:51And what comes across, actually, about the man
0:05:51 > 0:05:53is that he was a rare man.
0:05:53 > 0:05:56I mean, in that town, he was a very uncompromising character.
0:05:56 > 0:05:58- That must be very, very difficult to have been that...- Yes.
0:05:58 > 0:06:00- ..to maintain that stance. - Right.
0:06:00 > 0:06:05To be honest, in a town that is full of "hello, darling" and...
0:06:06 > 0:06:09..icing on the cake, you know, saying that everything is wonderful
0:06:09 > 0:06:11and all the films that are wonderful,
0:06:11 > 0:06:14it was very difficult to tell the truth.
0:06:14 > 0:06:19Most people in Hollywood really did not want to hear the truth
0:06:19 > 0:06:22- if it was negative.- Yes. - I mean, only positive.
0:06:22 > 0:06:25And Bogie, of course, didn't understand that.
0:06:25 > 0:06:30- He was incapable of telling a lie, he really was.- Yes.
0:06:30 > 0:06:32How difficult did he find it, though, to live with
0:06:32 > 0:06:35the screen image that he had of being the tough man, the hard man?
0:06:35 > 0:06:38Well, I mean, that is something that...
0:06:39 > 0:06:42I mean, there's nothing you can do to erase an image.
0:06:42 > 0:06:47Once you have made a hit in a role, in a certain kind of role,
0:06:47 > 0:06:52in films, there is no way to lose that identity.
0:06:52 > 0:06:54I mean, people just see you that way.
0:06:54 > 0:06:58And, of course, in New York,
0:06:58 > 0:07:03you go to a nightclub, or even a restaurant for dinner,
0:07:03 > 0:07:05and some drunk would walk over and say,
0:07:05 > 0:07:07"Oh, so you think you're tough, are you?"
0:07:07 > 0:07:11And he would just turn around, and if he'd had a couple of drinks,
0:07:11 > 0:07:12he'd say, "Yeah!"
0:07:12 > 0:07:14I mean, he'd start playing the part
0:07:14 > 0:07:16which had nothing to do with him whatever.
0:07:16 > 0:07:17LAUGHTER
0:07:17 > 0:07:20Just leading him up to the brink, you know.
0:07:20 > 0:07:21He was terrific at brinksmanship,
0:07:21 > 0:07:24I mean, until the moment the guy was ready to punch him,
0:07:24 > 0:07:27because then Bogie'd start laughing because he knew that,
0:07:27 > 0:07:30if it came to fisticuffs, that was out of the question!
0:07:30 > 0:07:33He couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag.
0:07:33 > 0:07:35LAUGHTER
0:07:35 > 0:07:38How difficult did you find it, also, for yourself?
0:07:38 > 0:07:40Because you were created in an image, weren't you,
0:07:40 > 0:07:41from your very first film?
0:07:41 > 0:07:45How difficult was it for you to get rid of it, live up to?
0:07:45 > 0:07:47Well, I've had that problem all my life,
0:07:47 > 0:07:49I mean, all my professional life,
0:07:49 > 0:07:53that people have seen me in a certain way -
0:07:53 > 0:07:56I think I make that very clear in the book,
0:07:56 > 0:07:58even including today -
0:07:58 > 0:08:02that I am looked upon as a woman
0:08:02 > 0:08:04who's in total control and command of every situation,
0:08:04 > 0:08:07that I don't need anyone and that I've got all the answers,
0:08:07 > 0:08:08it's all very sharp,
0:08:08 > 0:08:10just like all those parts I played.
0:08:10 > 0:08:15Well, as we all know, no-one's that sure of themselves, I don't think.
0:08:15 > 0:08:17And if they are, I don't want to meet them.
0:08:17 > 0:08:18LAUGHTER
0:08:18 > 0:08:20I mean, it's... You know, it's...
0:08:20 > 0:08:26It's very tough to just walk into any room, privately,
0:08:26 > 0:08:29and have someone decide what you're all about.
0:08:29 > 0:08:33Are you nervous because you know what to expect,
0:08:33 > 0:08:35their reaction to you when you get in there,
0:08:35 > 0:08:39or are you nervous because you don't know what the reaction will be?
0:08:39 > 0:08:41- You mean, walking into a room? - Yes, what I'm saying is that...
0:08:41 > 0:08:44Well, I'm nerv... I don't know, I'm just nervous. I don't know.
0:08:44 > 0:08:49- Yeah, yeah.- I mean, I don't analyse it. It's just that it's...
0:08:51 > 0:08:55I suppose, in our society, it's becoming less difficult all the time.
0:08:55 > 0:08:58But it is not easy to walk into a room by yourself.
0:09:00 > 0:09:04And it is twice as difficult if you walk into a room
0:09:04 > 0:09:09and people have preconceived notions of what you are and so, I mean,
0:09:09 > 0:09:12I'm immediately on the defensive, so I have to live up to that.
0:09:12 > 0:09:15What's interesting, actually, in the book also
0:09:15 > 0:09:19is the conflict that's run right through your life,
0:09:19 > 0:09:23about whether or not you marry and devote yourself to a man,
0:09:23 > 0:09:25or whether you go on with a career.
0:09:25 > 0:09:27And it seemed to me that you always took the option
0:09:27 > 0:09:30for companionship, for the man, rather than your...
0:09:30 > 0:09:31- Yes, but that's over.- That's over?
0:09:31 > 0:09:34- I'm not doing that any more, Michael.- You're not?- No.
0:09:34 > 0:09:36I don't believe... You can never say never,
0:09:36 > 0:09:38because there's no such thing as "I'll never do anything again".
0:09:38 > 0:09:40Who knows? I'll turn around tomorrow
0:09:40 > 0:09:43and some fascinating creature will drop from heaven and that'll be it!
0:09:43 > 0:09:46But I don't expect that to happen. I just...
0:09:46 > 0:09:50I will feel better, I think,
0:09:50 > 0:09:54just concentrating on work, friends, whatever happens.
0:09:54 > 0:09:58I'm very open to everything, but I love to work,
0:09:58 > 0:10:01and I really think work is the most important thing in life.
0:10:01 > 0:10:06- I think using oneself is more important than anything.- Yes.
0:10:06 > 0:10:09Being aware and awake and knowing what's going on.
0:10:09 > 0:10:12At the end of the book, you say something very interesting,
0:10:12 > 0:10:15Toward the end you say that, now you've written all about yourself,
0:10:15 > 0:10:16that you found out that you
0:10:16 > 0:10:18"Don't like everything I know about myself."
0:10:18 > 0:10:20- No.- You don't specify, though, you see.
0:10:20 > 0:10:22And I wondered what it was that you...
0:10:22 > 0:10:24Well, I have faced...
0:10:24 > 0:10:30When you start reviewing your life, you have to face your shortcomings.
0:10:30 > 0:10:34And you can't just shove them under the rug any more.
0:10:36 > 0:10:37I don't like...
0:10:39 > 0:10:44I don't like moments of envy that I have, you know, as far as...
0:10:44 > 0:10:46- Professionally? - Professionally, yes.
0:10:46 > 0:10:47I don't like...
0:10:47 > 0:10:51I don't admire at all in myself
0:10:51 > 0:10:55my not having the courage to stand up to Hawks
0:10:55 > 0:10:59every time he made a crack about the Jews.
0:10:59 > 0:11:01I don't feel good about that.
0:11:01 > 0:11:03And I would... And I...
0:11:03 > 0:11:06It took me many years before I could deal with that.
0:11:06 > 0:11:09Many years. It was very, very difficult.
0:11:09 > 0:11:12- Was there much anti-Semitism in... - No. It wasn't that.
0:11:12 > 0:11:16It was just that each time every one thing would happen,
0:11:16 > 0:11:19I mean, it became such a...
0:11:19 > 0:11:22They made such a to-do about it because of the fact that,
0:11:22 > 0:11:26in their eyes, I didn't look Jewish, and so they were so stunned.
0:11:26 > 0:11:29"I can't believe it! Can you believe that's true? Look at that girl!
0:11:29 > 0:11:31"She doesn't look..."
0:11:31 > 0:11:34And so I always felt that I was singled out and set apart
0:11:34 > 0:11:37and that I had additional obstacles to overcome.
0:11:37 > 0:11:43It became a weight around my neck and I hated the fact that I felt that.
0:11:43 > 0:11:45Yes.
0:11:45 > 0:11:47You felt you had to go to people beforehand because you didn't
0:11:47 > 0:11:50look Jewish and say, "By the way, I'm Jewish, just in case..."
0:11:50 > 0:11:54- Well, I did to Bogie.- You did? - But I didn't professionally.
0:11:54 > 0:11:57And that is what I don't like about myself,
0:11:57 > 0:11:58the fact that I did not say,
0:11:58 > 0:12:02"Now, just a minute, you may as well know it now."
0:12:02 > 0:12:03I mean, I wasn't that terrific,
0:12:03 > 0:12:07I was not that gutsy, and I wasn't that honest about it.
0:12:07 > 0:12:10I was terrified that maybe I would lose my job,
0:12:10 > 0:12:12and I didn't have the courage to deal with it.
0:12:12 > 0:12:15What about now? Do you still feel, you know,
0:12:15 > 0:12:19uneasy when somebody makes an anti-Semitic remark in your company?
0:12:19 > 0:12:21- I do.- You do?- Of course I do.
0:12:21 > 0:12:24- Do you now, though? - Well, now, I mean, now...
0:12:24 > 0:12:26It's out, folks. I mean, forget it. Now...
0:12:26 > 0:12:28I mean, I don't know.
0:12:28 > 0:12:30But it's so much pleasanter to...
0:12:32 > 0:12:33I mean, to just not have to...
0:12:33 > 0:12:36Why should I have to worry about my religion? I mean, that's so...
0:12:36 > 0:12:38That's nothing to do with what anybody is.
0:12:38 > 0:12:40I mean, it's what you...
0:12:40 > 0:12:44I mean, you're born the way you're born, and you live the way you live.
0:12:44 > 0:12:47And why should I be judged for something that...
0:12:47 > 0:12:50- when people don't know me? - The other interesting thing,
0:12:50 > 0:12:55that conclusion you come to, is to do with your age,
0:12:55 > 0:12:57and to do with, particularly, the...
0:12:57 > 0:12:59- Oh, you always do this to me, Michael.- No, I don't!
0:12:59 > 0:13:00LAUGHTER
0:13:00 > 0:13:03You did it last time. Don't you remember when I dropped the lighter,
0:13:03 > 0:13:04you said something about my...
0:13:04 > 0:13:07No, that wasn't me. That was another interviewer.
0:13:07 > 0:13:08LAUGHTER
0:13:08 > 0:13:10Oh, no it wasn't, Michael. I never forget!
0:13:10 > 0:13:11OK. Press on.
0:13:11 > 0:13:14You made the remark, and it's absolutely true,
0:13:14 > 0:13:15that in American society, particularly,
0:13:15 > 0:13:17that a woman of 26 is reckoned to be,
0:13:17 > 0:13:19professionally, and every other way,
0:13:19 > 0:13:22- on the downward slope. - On the skids. Yes!
0:13:22 > 0:13:26- And that can't give you any great comfort.- No.
0:13:26 > 0:13:28LAUGHTER
0:13:28 > 0:13:31That also is the understatement of the century, yes.
0:13:31 > 0:13:32LAUGHTER
0:13:32 > 0:13:34No, it doesn't give me any great comfort,
0:13:34 > 0:13:39- but I will fight to the death my right to work!- Absolutely.
0:13:39 > 0:13:41- No, but it's... - But not to be judged.
0:13:41 > 0:13:44I hate the fact that there's a number next to everybody's name,
0:13:44 > 0:13:47that that puts you in a certain category.
0:13:47 > 0:13:50I mean, there are people of 40 that are ancient!
0:13:51 > 0:13:54I mean, I know a man, one of the men that I was involved with
0:13:54 > 0:13:57in my book was 15 years my junior,
0:13:57 > 0:13:59who's too old for me, I'll tell you that!
0:13:59 > 0:14:02But how much are you swimming against the tide in that field?
0:14:02 > 0:14:04Well, I think that... I think that...
0:14:04 > 0:14:07Categorising has always existed, and I think it is...
0:14:07 > 0:14:10- I think it also does exist here, to a degree.- Oh, surely. Absolutely.
0:14:10 > 0:14:13You know, there's a number next to your name here, as well.
0:14:13 > 0:14:16Is it The Times where they were always saying,
0:14:16 > 0:14:17"Today's your birthday and you're..."
0:14:17 > 0:14:20Wonderful to announce that to the world(!)
0:14:20 > 0:14:22- Who needs that?- Yes, yes.
0:14:22 > 0:14:26But I think to be judged that you are a certain way
0:14:26 > 0:14:30because you are 30 or 40 or 50 or 60
0:14:30 > 0:14:32is totally unfair.
0:14:32 > 0:14:35And why should we be so limited?
0:14:35 > 0:14:36Why should it...
0:14:36 > 0:14:39Why should age confine us and make us unable
0:14:39 > 0:14:42to spread our wings, I mean, if you're an actor,
0:14:42 > 0:14:45to play different kinds of parts, or whatever?
0:14:45 > 0:14:47It's particularly...
0:14:47 > 0:14:49Why do you have to retire because somebody says that you...
0:14:49 > 0:14:51cos you've reached 62 and you must retire?
0:14:51 > 0:14:54But women, particularly, are vulnerable
0:14:54 > 0:14:56to this kind of thinking, aren't they?
0:14:56 > 0:14:58- Yes, but I think it's affected men, as well.- Yes.
0:14:58 > 0:15:00I think men that have been asked,
0:15:00 > 0:15:03or feel that they must retire from a job that they've held
0:15:03 > 0:15:07for 20 years because they've reached an age, a certain age,
0:15:07 > 0:15:09and don't want to retire and are not ready to retire,
0:15:09 > 0:15:12mentally or physically or anyway...
0:15:12 > 0:15:14I mean, certainly, it affects them badly.
0:15:14 > 0:15:17Retirement was never an option for Bacall.
0:15:18 > 0:15:22But she's always been frank about the fickle nature of fame
0:15:22 > 0:15:25and the pressure it brings, as she explains here,
0:15:25 > 0:15:27in an interview with Barry Norman.
0:15:27 > 0:15:28It's terrible to...
0:15:31 > 0:15:35..be 18 or 19 years old and have that kind of success
0:15:35 > 0:15:38when you are not prepared for it,
0:15:38 > 0:15:41when you are not equipped to deal with it,
0:15:41 > 0:15:45as I had had very little experience, acting experience.
0:15:45 > 0:15:48I mean, I wanted to be an actress and I studied for it,
0:15:48 > 0:15:50but I still had not done it enough.
0:15:50 > 0:15:54I mean, how much can you do by that age, you know? Not hell of a lot.
0:15:54 > 0:15:55So...
0:15:55 > 0:15:59And that kind of insanity that goes on,
0:15:59 > 0:16:02when you make that kind of an instant success,
0:16:02 > 0:16:08which is partially real, but also partially created
0:16:08 > 0:16:12by studio people, then, you know...
0:16:12 > 0:16:15Warner Bros had, um...
0:16:15 > 0:16:18as head of publicity, a man called Charlie Einfeld,
0:16:18 > 0:16:21who was one of the great publicity geniuses of all time.
0:16:21 > 0:16:26And he knew how to really make somebody, everyone, talk about you.
0:16:26 > 0:16:30And, I mean, I was in every magazine, on every cover, on everything.
0:16:30 > 0:16:32Too much.
0:16:32 > 0:16:36I remember arriving at Grand Central Station in New York
0:16:36 > 0:16:37from California,
0:16:37 > 0:16:40just after To Have and Have Not had been released,
0:16:40 > 0:16:46and Grand Central Station was packed with fans and police.
0:16:46 > 0:16:49Thousands and thousands of people.
0:16:49 > 0:16:51Now, I don't know how they got there,
0:16:51 > 0:16:54somebody from Warner Bros must have spread the word.
0:16:54 > 0:16:57I've no idea how it happened.
0:16:57 > 0:17:00But, I mean, when that happens to a 19-year-old girl, it's very scary.
0:17:00 > 0:17:02You just don't understand it.
0:17:02 > 0:17:05And were you expected to react in the slightly cynical,
0:17:05 > 0:17:08slightly tough, slightly wisecracking way
0:17:08 > 0:17:10that you appear in the film?
0:17:10 > 0:17:12I have no idea.
0:17:12 > 0:17:13By the time you made The Big Sleep,
0:17:13 > 0:17:15you and Humphrey Bogart were married.
0:17:15 > 0:17:18By the time it was released we were.
0:17:18 > 0:17:21Now, what influence did he have on your career
0:17:21 > 0:17:23and, indeed, on teaching you to act?
0:17:23 > 0:17:28Did he try to teach you, or did he encourage you to go your own way?
0:17:28 > 0:17:31He never tried to... I mean, he never gave me acting lessons.
0:17:32 > 0:17:35He never interfered in my career at all.
0:17:35 > 0:17:38He never tried to get me a part, he never...
0:17:39 > 0:17:42He never threw his weight around at all on my behalf.
0:17:42 > 0:17:44He felt that should be a separate thing.
0:17:44 > 0:17:46Umm...
0:17:46 > 0:17:48He occasionally...
0:17:48 > 0:17:50I remember once, in The Big Sleep -
0:17:50 > 0:17:52it was very funny -
0:17:52 > 0:17:54there was a scene where
0:17:54 > 0:17:56'the doorbell rang, and there was a shot of me
0:17:56 > 0:18:00'coming out of a room to go and answer the door, you see.
0:18:00 > 0:18:03'So we had a rehearsal in the scene for the camera.
0:18:03 > 0:18:06'And Howard Hawks yelled, you know, called, "Action!"
0:18:06 > 0:18:10'And I walked out of this door to, presumably, my bedroom,
0:18:10 > 0:18:12'to answer the front door.'
0:18:13 > 0:18:18'And before we did the take, Bogie took me to one side and said,
0:18:18 > 0:18:21'"You walked out of that room like a model!"
0:18:21 > 0:18:24'He said, "Always remember that you've come from somewhere."'
0:18:31 > 0:18:33Are you sure that she's going to be...
0:18:33 > 0:18:35Oh yeah, she'll be all right in the morning.
0:18:39 > 0:18:41Did you do this?
0:18:41 > 0:18:44That? Oh yes, that's a little special service
0:18:44 > 0:18:46I always provide all my clients.
0:18:46 > 0:18:48Including being intimate?
0:18:48 > 0:18:51'And that was, I suppose,
0:18:51 > 0:18:54'that was one of the things that made me aware that one must always think
0:18:54 > 0:18:58'before the take that you don't wait to think'
0:18:58 > 0:19:00once the cameras start to roll.
0:19:00 > 0:19:04You have to start to think before that, so that you know
0:19:04 > 0:19:08that something has preceded it, so that you're not a puppet, really.
0:19:09 > 0:19:11When you look back now on those...
0:19:11 > 0:19:14your early part of your life in Hollywood,
0:19:14 > 0:19:16does it seem real or does it seem like something
0:19:16 > 0:19:19that happened to somebody else whom you know?
0:19:20 > 0:19:22It seems very much as though it happened to somebody else.
0:19:22 > 0:19:24I mean, I know it happened to me.
0:19:24 > 0:19:29But, as I think of me then, it doesn't seem like me.
0:19:29 > 0:19:31I mean, I don't relate to it.
0:19:31 > 0:19:35I don't think about that life, except occasionally, when I think,
0:19:35 > 0:19:37"Did I really live like that?"
0:19:37 > 0:19:39I mean, "Was that really me living in that house?
0:19:39 > 0:19:42I mean, I remember experiencing all of it,
0:19:42 > 0:19:44and I remember being in all of the places that I was
0:19:44 > 0:19:46and with the people that I was,
0:19:46 > 0:19:52but it's so far from the way I've lived for the last 15 years.
0:19:52 > 0:19:56I get the impression that, after Bogart's death,
0:19:56 > 0:19:59your career never quite reached the same heights again.
0:19:59 > 0:20:02Now, is that true, and if so, is it coincidental,
0:20:02 > 0:20:05or was it simply because of the way the film industry was going?
0:20:05 > 0:20:09I think it's a very gracious way of putting it, on your part, actually.
0:20:09 > 0:20:13It never reached the heights again and it never will and that's it!
0:20:13 > 0:20:17And nobody cared, is what it really amounted to, except me.
0:20:17 > 0:20:18Umm...
0:20:18 > 0:20:19No, I think...
0:20:19 > 0:20:21You see, I was never...
0:20:21 > 0:20:26I don't think I was considered by a lot of people in films as an actress.
0:20:26 > 0:20:29I was thought of as Bogie's wife by a lot of people.
0:20:29 > 0:20:32"Oh, that terrific girl! Oh, his wife, blah, blah, blah."
0:20:32 > 0:20:35You know, and that was it.
0:20:35 > 0:20:38No-one ever thought that I cared that much about work, I don't think.
0:20:38 > 0:20:41I mean, you don't go around saying, "I want to work, I care about it..."
0:20:41 > 0:20:43RINGING
0:20:43 > 0:20:44Oh, hello!
0:20:44 > 0:20:46Umm...
0:20:48 > 0:20:50It just...
0:20:50 > 0:20:53They were still making films, and they were making good films,
0:20:53 > 0:20:55but they didn't want me in them.
0:20:56 > 0:20:59And, you know, I mean, with something...
0:20:59 > 0:21:04I do find in life that, when something devastating happens,
0:21:04 > 0:21:05it happens everywhere.
0:21:05 > 0:21:07I mean, it's...
0:21:07 > 0:21:11They really lay it on you when they want to, the world,
0:21:11 > 0:21:13whoever it is that's planning it.
0:21:14 > 0:21:17It's when your personal life is in the ash can,
0:21:17 > 0:21:19your career is, everything is.
0:21:20 > 0:21:21Well, I remember you said,
0:21:21 > 0:21:24I think about the time when you were going to appear in Applause,
0:21:24 > 0:21:29you said you'd had 13 years of bad luck, and I mean really bad luck.
0:21:29 > 0:21:34Well, my private life has certainly been a symphony of discord...
0:21:35 > 0:21:38..since Bogie's death, I would say. I mean, I don't think I've had...
0:21:40 > 0:21:44I don't know why. I mean, maybe I just attract disaster, I don't know.
0:21:44 > 0:21:48I hope not. But it seems to me that I have been unlucky.
0:21:48 > 0:21:52I think I have been. But I just... That's the way the world is.
0:21:52 > 0:21:55I mean, that's the way my world is. There's nothing I can do about it.
0:21:55 > 0:21:57But you also said once that you thought
0:21:57 > 0:21:59you'd lived your life backwards.
0:21:59 > 0:22:01That, at 20, you had all the things that most girls dream about,
0:22:01 > 0:22:04like a husband, wealth...
0:22:04 > 0:22:07- "Like a husband," yes! - ..wealth, a fascinating life,
0:22:07 > 0:22:10and that, now it's all gone, it won't come back again.
0:22:10 > 0:22:13Well, that's a very pessimistic note.
0:22:13 > 0:22:16I don't think it's pessimistic. I think it's true, actually.
0:22:16 > 0:22:19I mean, I think it's just those are the facts.
0:22:20 > 0:22:22I'm not particularly upset about it.
0:22:24 > 0:22:26But I say that, usually, I mean, you work,
0:22:26 > 0:22:29you start off, when you're young, you don't give a damn.
0:22:29 > 0:22:32It's not that important what things you have, is it, you know?
0:22:32 > 0:22:34Comforts and that kind of security
0:22:34 > 0:22:36you don't think of in terms of...
0:22:36 > 0:22:39You know, when you're 19 years old, it doesn't matter.
0:22:39 > 0:22:41But when you're older, you do think,
0:22:41 > 0:22:44"Gee, it'd be nice to have a little cushion,
0:22:44 > 0:22:45"not to have to worry about..."
0:22:45 > 0:22:50And, I mean, actually, I've had to work harder...
0:22:54 > 0:22:57..from Bogie's death on, since,
0:22:57 > 0:23:00and for ever, I would say, than I did before.
0:23:00 > 0:23:04Just, I mean, for not only survival, but just, I mean, to live.
0:23:04 > 0:23:09In the 1980s, Bacall was still gracing the talk shows,
0:23:09 > 0:23:11sharing stories about her fascinating past
0:23:11 > 0:23:14and her experience at the Warner Bros studios.
0:23:14 > 0:23:18I mean, I think that... I mean, Jack Warner's attitude was
0:23:18 > 0:23:21that actors were employees,
0:23:21 > 0:23:23and we did not consider that we were employees,
0:23:23 > 0:23:27and that he felt we should do as we were told.
0:23:27 > 0:23:32Unfortunately, he didn't have a lot of taste in choosing parts in films,
0:23:32 > 0:23:35so, if you wanted to do something better, you were in trouble.
0:23:35 > 0:23:37What happened is that you got into arguments
0:23:37 > 0:23:41and you ended up on suspension and didn't work for a while and...
0:23:41 > 0:23:44But even in spite of all of that,
0:23:44 > 0:23:49films then were wonderful, mostly terrific.
0:23:49 > 0:23:53And Warner Bros actually produced some of the best films ever made
0:23:53 > 0:23:57that will live for ever, long after some of today's films will.
0:23:57 > 0:24:00You don't think, then, that there was something to be said
0:24:00 > 0:24:04for this treatment of actors as if they were pieces of merchandise?
0:24:04 > 0:24:06Oh, no. No, no, no. I don't think there's ever
0:24:06 > 0:24:07anything to be said for that, no.
0:24:07 > 0:24:10No, I don't think there was, but I think that there were
0:24:10 > 0:24:13a lot of tremendously talented people making films then.
0:24:13 > 0:24:17I mean, the focus was totally in California.
0:24:17 > 0:24:20- It wasn't diffused by television, you see.- Is there...
0:24:20 > 0:24:24Do you detect a great difference between then and now
0:24:24 > 0:24:26and the making of films?
0:24:26 > 0:24:28Well, there's a tremendous difference,
0:24:28 > 0:24:30number one in cost, number one in the number of films,
0:24:30 > 0:24:33number one in the concentration of talent in one place
0:24:33 > 0:24:36that doesn't exist any more. Everyone is everywhere.
0:24:36 > 0:24:41I mean, you go where the work is. You seldom work where you live now.
0:24:41 > 0:24:43There still are some very talented people.
0:24:43 > 0:24:46I mean, there are some young, talented people in films,
0:24:46 > 0:24:48but I don't think as many.
0:24:48 > 0:24:50And they don't build stars to last,
0:24:50 > 0:24:53and I think television has done that.
0:24:53 > 0:24:55- No offence!- No, quite, quite!
0:24:55 > 0:24:58We're prepared to take the... We're prepared to take the sticks.
0:24:58 > 0:25:02Because, in fact, it's very difficult to become a film star now
0:25:02 > 0:25:04because people don't actually go out to movies,
0:25:04 > 0:25:07and you see people who are established feature players,
0:25:07 > 0:25:08but they're not...
0:25:08 > 0:25:11They don't become stars like they used to in the 40s and 50s.
0:25:11 > 0:25:13Well, they don't last, you see.
0:25:13 > 0:25:15Stars, to me, are people who last.
0:25:15 > 0:25:18Just to have your name over the title for five minutes
0:25:18 > 0:25:20is not a star, in my book, anyway. But I'm a...
0:25:21 > 0:25:23You were 19 when you were a star.
0:25:23 > 0:25:27- I was a wee girl, yeah. - Was it hard to handle?
0:25:27 > 0:25:32Well, it would have been harder to handle had I not had Bogie, I'm sure.
0:25:32 > 0:25:37And also, I had a very solid upbringing, so that I...
0:25:37 > 0:25:38I was...
0:25:38 > 0:25:41My feet were quite firmly planted on the ground.
0:25:41 > 0:25:42But it's pretty hard to keep your head
0:25:42 > 0:25:46- when people say that you are the sun, the moon AND the stars...- Yeah.
0:25:46 > 0:25:47..all rolled into one.
0:25:47 > 0:25:49Are you glad it happened to you then,
0:25:49 > 0:25:52rather than it would happen to you now?
0:25:52 > 0:25:54Well, I'm glad it happened at all!
0:25:54 > 0:25:55LAUGHTER
0:25:55 > 0:25:56I mean, you know, that...
0:25:56 > 0:25:58I think I'm lucky that it happened at all.
0:25:58 > 0:26:02Of course, as I was told once by a man called Moss Hart,
0:26:02 > 0:26:06who was a playwright, a fine playwright and director,
0:26:06 > 0:26:10after To Have and Have Not opened, he said, "You understand, of course,
0:26:10 > 0:26:12"that you have nowhere to go but down."
0:26:13 > 0:26:15And he was absolutely right.
0:26:15 > 0:26:18- I don't think that's true. - No, but it is true,
0:26:18 > 0:26:20because if you are...
0:26:20 > 0:26:22If you are praised beyond your capabilities,
0:26:22 > 0:26:24which new people very often are,
0:26:24 > 0:26:27there's no way you can live up to that praise.
0:26:27 > 0:26:31It's out of all proportion to anyone's ability, to any reality.
0:26:31 > 0:26:35Your original ambition was to work on the stage
0:26:35 > 0:26:38and, I think, probably - I may be wrong -
0:26:38 > 0:26:41you prefer it to working in the movies, working on stage?
0:26:41 > 0:26:45- No, I just prefer working to not working.- Well, yes!
0:26:45 > 0:26:47- If you had a choice?- I don't...
0:26:47 > 0:26:50Well, if I had a choice, I'd do both, I'd do everything,
0:26:50 > 0:26:53because I think one has to, and I think one should.
0:26:53 > 0:26:56And each medium has something different to offer.
0:26:56 > 0:27:01But the theatre, the thing that is the best thing about the theatre,
0:27:01 > 0:27:05is that it is happening then.
0:27:05 > 0:27:08It is now, it is live and it is more in an actor's control
0:27:08 > 0:27:12than film is, which is not at all in an actor's control.
0:27:12 > 0:27:16Of course, the best thing about film is that you have a better life,
0:27:16 > 0:27:19because it's not that relentless, eight shows a week
0:27:19 > 0:27:23and usually 52 weeks a year. I mean, you know, it's much...
0:27:23 > 0:27:26- You need stamina for the stage. - Yes, you do!
0:27:26 > 0:27:28You started out - well, your book says -
0:27:28 > 0:27:30by collaring producers, saying, "Use me, use me!
0:27:30 > 0:27:33"I'd be good in this kind of thing." Would you still do that?
0:27:33 > 0:27:34I had a lot of nerve.
0:27:34 > 0:27:37Well, I've tried but I'm so afraid of rejection, I can't!
0:27:37 > 0:27:38LAUGHTER
0:27:38 > 0:27:41As a young girl, you weren't afraid of the rejection,
0:27:41 > 0:27:45- it wouldn't have mattered?- I don't think you think of it, you know?
0:27:45 > 0:27:47I thought... Well, I had a hell of a lot of nerve, but I thought,
0:27:47 > 0:27:49"I don't care. I'm just going to press on and do it,
0:27:49 > 0:27:52"and what can they do? They can only say no."
0:27:52 > 0:27:56I suppose I would if I wanted to do something badly enough now, but I...
0:27:56 > 0:28:00I don't know. You get a little... One becomes very intimidated.
0:28:00 > 0:28:01- Really?- It's not easy.
0:28:01 > 0:28:03One can't envisage you being intimidated.
0:28:03 > 0:28:04- Oh, you can't?- No.
0:28:04 > 0:28:06Well, then you don't know human nature very well.
0:28:06 > 0:28:09No, I'm well-known for my lack of knowledge of human nature.
0:28:09 > 0:28:12I'm sorry about that, but no, it's...
0:28:12 > 0:28:17I mean, to think that what one is, professionally, is what one is
0:28:17 > 0:28:20is not, you know... That is not what we are, and to be...
0:28:22 > 0:28:26I mean, to present whatever persona I presented over the years
0:28:26 > 0:28:29because of parts that I've played has nothing to do with the way I am.
0:28:29 > 0:28:32I mean, finally, you do begin to become that a little bit, you know.
0:28:32 > 0:28:35- You are affected a little bit by it. - I'm interested...
0:28:35 > 0:28:40There's not a frail, weak, cowering woman, then, behind this facade?
0:28:40 > 0:28:44- No, but there's a very vulnerable, sensitive one.- Yeah.
0:28:44 > 0:28:45Definitely.
0:28:45 > 0:28:48Do you get offered many roles now? And what kind of roles do you...?
0:28:48 > 0:28:51Now, I'm not sure I'm crazy about that question.
0:28:51 > 0:28:53LAUGHTER
0:28:53 > 0:28:56- What kind of roles do you have in mind?- No, no, no! They don't...
0:28:56 > 0:28:59They don't allow me to offer anybody roles, even here in the BBC.
0:28:59 > 0:29:01But do you get offered interesting parts?
0:29:01 > 0:29:04Do you get offered many parts that you're interested in doing now?
0:29:04 > 0:29:07There are not many wonderful parts written for women.
0:29:07 > 0:29:10There are not many terrible parts written for women.
0:29:10 > 0:29:12There are not many parts written for women of any age.
0:29:14 > 0:29:17It is very difficult to find anything that is worth doing.
0:29:19 > 0:29:23We keep hoping it will change, and maybe it will.
0:29:23 > 0:29:26I hope so. It's hard. It's very hard.
0:29:26 > 0:29:29I mean, that's another reason that I stay on the stage,
0:29:29 > 0:29:33because I find that there is better stuff to do on stage
0:29:33 > 0:29:35than there is in film.
0:29:35 > 0:29:38Fortunately, notable roles kept coming,
0:29:38 > 0:29:41like the film Misery,
0:29:41 > 0:29:44and Barbara Streisand's The Mirror Has Two Faces,
0:29:44 > 0:29:49for which Bacall won a Best Actress Golden Globe award
0:29:49 > 0:29:51and an Oscar nomination.
0:29:51 > 0:29:56Then, in 2000, she appeared on the show Scene by Scene,
0:29:56 > 0:30:01joining Mark Cousins to look back and critique her career so far.
0:30:01 > 0:30:04I've got here the end of To Have and Have Not,
0:30:04 > 0:30:07- where you do this wiggle... - Oh, you like that wiggle!
0:30:07 > 0:30:09..which is one of the sexiest things in the movies.
0:30:13 > 0:30:16SHE LAUGHS
0:30:16 > 0:30:18It's so funny!
0:30:18 > 0:30:21- And Walter Brennan does the wee jig at the end, remember?- Yes.
0:30:21 > 0:30:22There he goes!
0:30:26 > 0:30:29- 'It doesn't look planned or choreographed.'- 'It wasn't.'
0:30:29 > 0:30:31'Did Howard Hawks tell you to do it?'
0:30:31 > 0:30:36'No, I did it spontaneously when we were rehearsing, and Howard liked it.
0:30:36 > 0:30:38'And they wanted me to do it.'
0:30:38 > 0:30:41Then I became a little self-conscious doing it!
0:30:41 > 0:30:44But because, you know, I studied dancing for 13 years,
0:30:44 > 0:30:46I wanted to be a dancer. So...
0:30:46 > 0:30:49And I... Not that I considered that really dancing,
0:30:49 > 0:30:53but any time I hear music, wiggling comes to mind!
0:30:55 > 0:30:58Well, you wiggle like a dream, I can tell you that!
0:30:58 > 0:31:01I've got a bit of bad news for you.
0:31:01 > 0:31:05And the bad news is that I've got a clip here of Confidential.
0:31:05 > 0:31:07Oh!
0:31:07 > 0:31:08Oh, I'm killing you!
0:31:08 > 0:31:11I hate my own father for 1,000 reasons.
0:31:11 > 0:31:13Then I fall for a stupid, idealistic fool
0:31:13 > 0:31:16who's trying to get himself killed.
0:31:16 > 0:31:17And you will be, sooner or later.
0:31:17 > 0:31:19It's written all over you.
0:31:20 > 0:31:21SHE LAUGHS
0:31:21 > 0:31:23So pathetic!
0:31:25 > 0:31:27Look at him!
0:31:27 > 0:31:30We shall see each other again before I leave, and celebrate.
0:31:30 > 0:31:32I do like you, very much.
0:31:32 > 0:31:34Stop lying!
0:31:34 > 0:31:35Ooh!
0:31:44 > 0:31:46It's not as bad as you think, that picture.
0:31:46 > 0:31:48I've no idea what that scene is about!
0:31:48 > 0:31:52He was such a sweet man, such a lovely man.
0:31:52 > 0:31:55And the newspaper said "the bubble has burst on Bacall."
0:31:55 > 0:31:59The reviews were bad. Did it seriously damage your career?
0:31:59 > 0:32:00Oh!
0:32:00 > 0:32:04I had to climb my way back up, I tell you. And you never get back.
0:32:06 > 0:32:09You never get back to that moment, you see.
0:32:10 > 0:32:16If I had had the care from Hawks that I might have had if he hadn't
0:32:16 > 0:32:20been such a macho man who was furious that I went off with Bogie...
0:32:23 > 0:32:25..that movie never would have happened.
0:32:27 > 0:32:30The fact is that it...
0:32:30 > 0:32:33it hurt me a lot. I mean, all the critics who praised me,
0:32:33 > 0:32:39who said I was a combination of Garbo and Hepburn and Dietrich and...
0:32:39 > 0:32:41Mae West, they mentioned.
0:32:41 > 0:32:44..Mae West, yes, and that I was this most exciting, brilliant,
0:32:44 > 0:32:45wonderful, funny...
0:32:45 > 0:32:48Every compliment in the book,
0:32:48 > 0:32:54to, "We were wrong, send her back where she came from! Disaster!"
0:32:54 > 0:32:56Well, I mean, it was very...
0:32:56 > 0:32:59- It was very hurtful.- Yeah.
0:32:59 > 0:33:01But I was married to Bogie then,
0:33:01 > 0:33:04and my reaction was really healthy.
0:33:05 > 0:33:07I was not happy about it,
0:33:07 > 0:33:11but I didn't burst into tears about it, although it was hurtful.
0:33:11 > 0:33:15Jumping ahead, you made the film The Fan in 1980.
0:33:15 > 0:33:17I loved The Fan.
0:33:17 > 0:33:21And you play a stage actress who's stalked by this young man
0:33:21 > 0:33:25- who's got pictures of the very young Lauren Bacall on his wall.- Yes.
0:33:25 > 0:33:29- You could say that it was quite a risky thing for you to do.- I know.
0:33:29 > 0:33:31It's very scary, all of that, because, you know,
0:33:31 > 0:33:34I have gotten a lot of... in the past.
0:33:34 > 0:33:37- And still I'm getting some nutty... - Nuts.- ..mail, yeah.
0:33:37 > 0:33:39There were nuts everywhere.
0:33:39 > 0:33:44- And it is frightening but it does exist and it can exist.- Yeah.
0:33:44 > 0:33:47Coming up to date, you made The Mirror Has Two Faces
0:33:47 > 0:33:49with director Barbara Streisand,
0:33:49 > 0:33:51and you got an Oscar nomination, which is...
0:33:51 > 0:33:53That's as far as I'll go with that one!
0:33:53 > 0:33:57..which is ironic, in a way, because it wasn't a great picture, was it?
0:33:57 > 0:33:58No.
0:33:58 > 0:34:00But it was a very good part.
0:34:00 > 0:34:04Streisand is a really good director, I have to tell you.
0:34:04 > 0:34:06She knows what the last shots were,
0:34:06 > 0:34:09she knows what shots are coming up, she knows what she needs.
0:34:09 > 0:34:13Maybe she'll look back and turn into a pillar of salt.
0:34:13 > 0:34:16'She doesn't play the Hollywood game at all, she plays her own game,
0:34:16 > 0:34:18'and she's got every right to do that, in my book.'
0:34:18 > 0:34:20Alex looks nervous.
0:34:20 > 0:34:22'I guess they don't like her. I don't know what it is.
0:34:22 > 0:34:24'The movie was not a popular movie.'
0:34:24 > 0:34:29It's time that we had another great Lauren Bacall film, isn't it?
0:34:29 > 0:34:33Oh, but there hasn't been one of those, ever, in my book,
0:34:33 > 0:34:36a movie that I was it in.
0:34:37 > 0:34:40They don't write parts, you know, they don't write parts for...
0:34:40 > 0:34:43They don't write parts for women in general that are terrific,
0:34:43 > 0:34:45and they don't...
0:34:45 > 0:34:47So unimaginative. They used to write...
0:34:47 > 0:34:49It's not Pedro Almodovar, All About My Mother.
0:34:49 > 0:34:52- Please, God, if something like that would only come along!- But...
0:34:52 > 0:34:54I just hope somebody will one day.
0:34:54 > 0:34:57Does Almodovar know that you would...?
0:34:57 > 0:35:00Yes, I've told him. I love Pedro. I said, "Pedro!
0:35:00 > 0:35:02"I've got to be in your first English-speaking movie!"
0:35:02 > 0:35:05I said, "I will carry a tray. I don't care what I do!"
0:35:05 > 0:35:08No, he's forgotten me already, he's made such a hit with this movie now.
0:35:08 > 0:35:10That's your next great movie. I can't wait to see it.
0:35:10 > 0:35:14And what would you do if all your films disappeared,
0:35:14 > 0:35:16if they were all wiped, if they...
0:35:16 > 0:35:20You know, if nobody could see Big Sleep again,
0:35:20 > 0:35:22if nobody could see Designing Woman again?
0:35:22 > 0:35:24That's life.
0:35:24 > 0:35:26What could I do?
0:35:26 > 0:35:30I tell you, I don't think of what happens after I'm gone.
0:35:32 > 0:35:36If things last, they last. You never know whether they last not.
0:35:36 > 0:35:39And I don't... I don't do things for posterity, anyway.
0:35:39 > 0:35:45In 2009, Bacall received an honorary Academy Award
0:35:45 > 0:35:47in recognition of her central place
0:35:47 > 0:35:51in the golden age of motion pictures.
0:35:51 > 0:35:54She may not have sought out posterity,
0:35:54 > 0:35:56but she achieved it, anyway.
0:35:58 > 0:36:04Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd