0:00:16 > 0:00:21"Deborah Kerr - the surname rhymes with star."
0:00:21 > 0:00:25That's what the legendary producer Louis B. Mayer said of her.
0:00:25 > 0:00:27And he was right.
0:00:29 > 0:00:31Kerr would refer to herself as just a shy,
0:00:31 > 0:00:36nervous girl from Scotland but if that was the case,
0:00:36 > 0:00:38in the 1940s, '50s and '60s,
0:00:38 > 0:00:42she was also one of cinema's great British success stories.
0:00:44 > 0:00:48She starred in films like The Life And Death Of Colonel Blimp,
0:00:48 > 0:00:53An Affair To Remember and most famously,
0:00:53 > 0:00:55From Here To Eternity,
0:00:55 > 0:00:59with the iconic beach scene and famous kiss...
0:01:01 > 0:01:05..and the much-loved musical, the King And I,
0:01:05 > 0:01:08which we find her talking about here in 1956,
0:01:08 > 0:01:11the year of the film's release.
0:01:11 > 0:01:13She was talking on the BBC programme Picture Parade.
0:01:13 > 0:01:15Well, hello.
0:01:15 > 0:01:18We were just talking about Majorca because in a few days' time,
0:01:18 > 0:01:21that's where Miss Deborah Kerr is taking a holiday.
0:01:21 > 0:01:23- A well-earned rest, isn't it?- Yes, it is.
0:01:23 > 0:01:25I've never stopped for the last three years
0:01:25 > 0:01:29and I think I really have earned it. I deserve a rest.
0:01:29 > 0:01:32Three years you mentioned, that takes us back to 1953.
0:01:32 > 0:01:35And that's the year you won your Academy Award nomination
0:01:35 > 0:01:39- for Best Actress.- Yes. That was for From Here To Eternity.
0:01:39 > 0:01:43I remember that with some affection, that part.
0:01:43 > 0:01:46You played Karen Holmes, a smouldering, passionate,
0:01:46 > 0:01:49- fiery creature. - Oh! Yes. Well, she was.
0:01:49 > 0:01:51What about this new film?
0:01:51 > 0:01:53What part are you playing in that? I haven't seen it.
0:01:53 > 0:01:57The King and I, you mean? Well, I play a schoolteacher in that.
0:01:57 > 0:02:02- Now, isn't that something of a reversal of form for you?- Well, no.
0:02:02 > 0:02:04It really isn't.
0:02:04 > 0:02:07I suppose in theory it sounds as if it would be
0:02:07 > 0:02:09but I would like to state most emphatically
0:02:09 > 0:02:13that Mrs Anna is not a stuffy, dull, prissy woman.
0:02:13 > 0:02:17- What sort of a woman is she, then? - She's a very wonderful, witty, warm,
0:02:17 > 0:02:21humorous, courageous woman. And that sounds good, doesn't it?
0:02:21 > 0:02:24That's what I call answering the question!
0:02:24 > 0:02:27And what is this part for you? It's a big part, obviously.
0:02:27 > 0:02:31You said elsewhere that it is one of the greats in your career.
0:02:31 > 0:02:34Yes, I think that sort of now and again,
0:02:34 > 0:02:38or once, perhaps, in one's lifetime as an actress,
0:02:38 > 0:02:41one gets a really wonderful part
0:02:41 > 0:02:46that sort of fulfils every facet of one's talent.
0:02:46 > 0:02:49And I always remember Vivien Leigh in Gone With The Wind.
0:02:49 > 0:02:52I think that kind of a part comes to an actress once, perhaps.
0:02:52 > 0:02:55If you're awfully lucky, twice.
0:02:55 > 0:02:58And I really feel that Mrs Anna is my Gone With The Wind,
0:02:58 > 0:03:02- if you know what I mean. It's... - This is your Scarlett O'Hara.
0:03:02 > 0:03:05Yes, my Scarlett O'Hara. She is so...
0:03:05 > 0:03:11So lovely and, of course, being able to include it with music as well
0:03:11 > 0:03:14is another facet that, you know, doesn't often happen.
0:03:14 > 0:03:16That knocks on the head, for a start,
0:03:16 > 0:03:19the idea that she is going to be a rather musty, dusty schoolmarm.
0:03:19 > 0:03:24- Yes, not at all.- And you're working in this film with Yul Brynner.- Yes.
0:03:24 > 0:03:26He played his part on Broadway for... How long was it?
0:03:26 > 0:03:28He played it for four years in all.
0:03:28 > 0:03:32I think he's about two-and-a-half to three years on Broadway
0:03:32 > 0:03:35- and a year-and-a-half on the road. - On tour.
0:03:35 > 0:03:38And so I'm longing for everybody to see him in it
0:03:38 > 0:03:42because I think his personality is going to burst upon us
0:03:42 > 0:03:46- with the power of an atom bomb.- He obviously knows what it's all about.
0:03:46 > 0:03:48Did you find it difficult to step into a production with a man
0:03:48 > 0:03:50who has played it for so long?
0:03:50 > 0:03:53A man who has notions about how the part should be played?
0:03:53 > 0:03:56- How did you feel? - No. It wasn't difficult.
0:03:56 > 0:03:58It could have been, that's true, I think,
0:03:58 > 0:04:01with someone who had, you know, known it and played it.
0:04:01 > 0:04:05He played it with six Mrs Annas, you know, during its run
0:04:05 > 0:04:09and it could have been quite difficult if he wanted to be
0:04:09 > 0:04:12but he was really wonderful,
0:04:12 > 0:04:15not only to me that the entire company because most of them...
0:04:15 > 0:04:19Some of them had been in the original production that some of them weren't.
0:04:19 > 0:04:21And I was one of them.
0:04:21 > 0:04:24And he really gave his all,
0:04:24 > 0:04:28all his knowledge of not only my part
0:04:28 > 0:04:30but everybody's part.
0:04:30 > 0:04:35And that way, all the values that they had discovered in four years
0:04:35 > 0:04:39of playing, all the mistakes that they had made
0:04:39 > 0:04:45and thrown out, he was able to give me, you see, in three weeks.
0:04:45 > 0:04:47This is something of a novelty, isn't it?
0:04:47 > 0:04:50- A musical in which you can actually act?- Yes.
0:04:50 > 0:04:53I think that King And I is outstanding from that point of view.
0:04:53 > 0:04:59I can almost think of no other show where it is really a play with music.
0:04:59 > 0:05:02It really can't be called a musical as such.
0:05:02 > 0:05:06And the drama of it is every bit as good
0:05:06 > 0:05:11as the music of it and so that's why it is such an unusual show.
0:05:11 > 0:05:13The man who wrote the lyrics of the songs, Hammerstein,
0:05:13 > 0:05:15is also responsible for the book,
0:05:15 > 0:05:19- in other words the dialogue that you speak.- Yes, that's right.
0:05:19 > 0:05:21And this man is a poet.
0:05:21 > 0:05:26I'm sure anybody who knows any of his songs will realise that.
0:05:26 > 0:05:30And he has written the book and written it like a play.
0:05:30 > 0:05:32I mean, his lines are full of meaning
0:05:32 > 0:05:36and the songs really stem out of the situation.
0:05:36 > 0:05:39- There's no sort of song cue, you know.- They're not just stuck there.
0:05:39 > 0:05:41That's right.
0:05:41 > 0:05:44Mrs Anna suddenly expresses herself through the medium of song
0:05:44 > 0:05:47- instead of a long speech. - About the songs in the show.
0:05:47 > 0:05:50Which are the ones you most enjoy?
0:05:50 > 0:05:53Oh, that's difficult! They are all so lovely.
0:05:53 > 0:05:56But I think my two favourites are Getting To Know You,
0:05:56 > 0:06:00- which is quite enchanting. - That is Mrs Anna's song.
0:06:00 > 0:06:02It's her song, really.
0:06:02 > 0:06:07And then the one between her and the King, Shall We Dance.
0:06:07 > 0:06:11Which ends in that wonderful polka all around the ballroom.
0:06:11 > 0:06:14Speaking of dances, that is one of the dance sequences,
0:06:14 > 0:06:16and there are several of them.
0:06:16 > 0:06:19- They are brilliant, I understand. - Yes. I think the most exciting...
0:06:19 > 0:06:23Of course, Yul and I think that the polka is the most exciting
0:06:23 > 0:06:26but one of the highlights of it
0:06:26 > 0:06:30will be the dance sequence of Uncle Tom's Cabin,
0:06:30 > 0:06:33the Siamese version of Uncle Tom's Cabin.
0:06:33 > 0:06:38It is called Small House Of Uncle Thomas and it's quite enchanting.
0:06:38 > 0:06:41It is a little...
0:06:41 > 0:06:43I suppose you could call it a little drama,
0:06:43 > 0:06:47- again, in the medium of a dance. - This is a play that Mrs Anna,
0:06:47 > 0:06:50who is after all the teacher of the children, has taught them.
0:06:50 > 0:06:53She's read them Uncle Tom's Cabin, you see.
0:06:53 > 0:06:56So they make it into a little performance with dancing
0:06:56 > 0:07:00and very dramatic... You know, lovely symbolism.
0:07:00 > 0:07:03They've never seen snow and they are thrilled when she describes
0:07:03 > 0:07:07snow as water freezing on its way down from the sky.
0:07:07 > 0:07:10So they include this in the little dance sequence
0:07:10 > 0:07:15and they have these beautiful snow things that come down from the sky.
0:07:15 > 0:07:17You know, it's very beautifully done.
0:07:17 > 0:07:20I understand the children are great scene stealers as well.
0:07:20 > 0:07:22- Oh, dear, yes.- In between seeing the play on Broadway
0:07:22 > 0:07:26and appearing in the film, you yourself were in a Broadway success.
0:07:26 > 0:07:31Yes, I was. I was in a very wonderful play called Tea And Sympathy.
0:07:31 > 0:07:33- Another different role.- Yes.
0:07:33 > 0:07:37I suppose a little bit more of Mrs Anna in my character
0:07:37 > 0:07:42in Tea And Sympathy than Karen Holmes but it was a...
0:07:42 > 0:07:45- It's a very wonderful part for an actress.- And you've also filmed that.
0:07:45 > 0:07:48I had just finished that before I came home.
0:07:48 > 0:07:52The year of our next interview is 1972.
0:07:53 > 0:07:57Four years previously, Deborah had decided to quit Hollywood,
0:07:57 > 0:08:01fed up with the movie industry that in her eyes was increasingly
0:08:01 > 0:08:04focusing on the worst parts of human life.
0:08:05 > 0:08:10Her passion now was theatre and here she is appearing alongside the
0:08:10 > 0:08:15celebrated stage actress Dame Edith Evans on the Parkinson programme
0:08:15 > 0:08:20in a discussion that starts with how Hollywood first typecast her
0:08:20 > 0:08:23as a classic English rose.
0:08:23 > 0:08:26When you went to the States, of course, and you got lumbered
0:08:26 > 0:08:30with this rather prim, prissy kind of image, didn't you?
0:08:30 > 0:08:34- I suppose so.- You did for a while... - Yes.- ..didn't you?
0:08:34 > 0:08:38What interests me was how on earth Hollywood thought that image
0:08:38 > 0:08:41was marketable in their terms.
0:08:41 > 0:08:42Because, you know, it was all cheesecake
0:08:42 > 0:08:43and the rest of the stuff.
0:08:43 > 0:08:47Yes, I think probably it was a slight reaction to that.
0:08:47 > 0:08:51You know, it was just after the war and all the sort of cheesecake things
0:08:51 > 0:08:57and I think they just went overboard with trying not to change me.
0:08:57 > 0:09:03- And in trying not to change me, it sort of backfired in a way.- Yes.
0:09:03 > 0:09:05Did you get bored by it, by being stuck with this?
0:09:05 > 0:09:08- Yes, well, I've never been bored acting.- No.
0:09:09 > 0:09:12Even if it's not been a very good...
0:09:12 > 0:09:15You know, not terribly exciting part or terribly exciting movie,
0:09:15 > 0:09:21- I've always absolutely adored it. I just love being somebody else.- Yes.
0:09:21 > 0:09:23Did you ever get the urge to sort of...
0:09:23 > 0:09:27To put it crudely, burst out of your corsets, you know?
0:09:28 > 0:09:32Well, I wore plenty of corsets in those parts.
0:09:32 > 0:09:36Well, yes. I mean, I've always been too hesitant, I think,
0:09:36 > 0:09:41to kind of kick over the traces, I think the phrase is.
0:09:41 > 0:09:46But I've always been a great believer that sort of things happen, you know?
0:09:46 > 0:09:50It's no good forcing the issue, forcing the pace.
0:09:50 > 0:09:53Suddenly the moment comes, the opportunity is there.
0:09:53 > 0:09:57You know, suddenly there it is for you to make the break.
0:09:57 > 0:10:00This is sort of saying that things are preordained, in a way.
0:10:00 > 0:10:02I suppose so. I don't know whether I mean that.
0:10:02 > 0:10:06I think it's kind of like having an instinct for when is the moment to...
0:10:06 > 0:10:09to make the fuss or not.
0:10:09 > 0:10:11To get out of the trap or not, you know. If I...
0:10:11 > 0:10:14I didn't feel it was a trap, really.
0:10:14 > 0:10:17I was having a very good time and I played one very good part
0:10:17 > 0:10:19in Edward, My Son.
0:10:19 > 0:10:22Which was when I got my first Academy Award nomination.
0:10:22 > 0:10:25And that was only three years after I went to Hollywood
0:10:25 > 0:10:28- so it wasn't too bad. - No. How did they...
0:10:28 > 0:10:30How did they sort of process you?
0:10:30 > 0:10:33What did they make you do or what didn't they have you do?
0:10:33 > 0:10:36- They wouldn't let you pose in a bathing costume, I presume.- Oh, no!
0:10:36 > 0:10:40Not me! No, not at that time. Gracious, no.
0:10:40 > 0:10:45No, I was thoroughly ladylike and wearing tiaras and serving tea...
0:10:45 > 0:10:48- With a tiara on.- With a tiara on. - We all do here, yes.
0:10:48 > 0:10:51I know, everyone in England does that.
0:10:51 > 0:10:54At that time and still, you know, that sort of feeling that
0:10:54 > 0:10:57- if you were English, you must be a duchess.- Yes.- Yes.
0:10:57 > 0:11:00You were talking there, I thought that was an interesting point
0:11:00 > 0:11:02about this sort of sense of destiny,
0:11:02 > 0:11:05this sort of preordained thing and knowing when to push for it.
0:11:05 > 0:11:08You, in fact, pushed hard in one year, didn't you?
0:11:08 > 0:11:11You did two things. You did a stage thing with Tea And Sympathy...
0:11:11 > 0:11:14- Yes.- ..in which you broke right out of the pattern.
0:11:14 > 0:11:17- And then you did...- From Here... - From Here To Eternity.
0:11:17 > 0:11:20- Actually, it was sort of really the other way round.- Basically, yes.
0:11:20 > 0:11:23Because doing From Here To Eternity really kind of broke the mould,
0:11:23 > 0:11:25if you know what I mean.
0:11:25 > 0:11:27And the curious thing was that's what did it.
0:11:27 > 0:11:30Because I then immediately reverted to doing...
0:11:30 > 0:11:35I mean, Laura in Tea And Sympathy was a complete tea-pouring lady
0:11:35 > 0:11:39but because of that one movie,
0:11:39 > 0:11:43you know, everyone thought, "Oh! Who's this?"
0:11:43 > 0:11:47- They had no idea that one could act! - Yes.
0:11:47 > 0:11:49But what sort of intrigues me
0:11:49 > 0:11:51is how you got the part in From Here To Eternity
0:11:51 > 0:11:54because if you're looking round at someone to play the part
0:11:54 > 0:11:56that you played in that, you know, sort of sex-starved woman.
0:11:56 > 0:11:59- You wouldn't have thought of me. - You wouldn't have thought of you.
0:11:59 > 0:12:04- So how did you get it?- Well... That too is sort of a rather...
0:12:04 > 0:12:06Not too long a story, don't get worried.
0:12:06 > 0:12:09I'm not worried at all! I've got all night.
0:12:09 > 0:12:12Oh, good! LAUGHTER
0:12:12 > 0:12:14I like the way you said that.
0:12:14 > 0:12:18I thought it was a pretty good reading!
0:12:18 > 0:12:20- You were going to tell me...- I know.
0:12:20 > 0:12:23Well, I'd done all these movies that were, you know, as you said,
0:12:23 > 0:12:27a little ladylike and I felt, "Oh, I've got to find something."
0:12:27 > 0:12:30And I had just...at the time I had changed agents
0:12:30 > 0:12:34and I went to a very marvellous man who is dead now
0:12:34 > 0:12:38called Bert Allenberg and within two weeks of my being what's known
0:12:38 > 0:12:42as under his banner, he called me up one day and he said,
0:12:42 > 0:12:46"You know they're going to make From Here To Eternity at Columbia?"
0:12:46 > 0:12:48And I said yes. He said, "Have you read it?"
0:12:48 > 0:12:51I said, "Of course!" He said, "How about playing the part of Karen?"
0:12:51 > 0:12:55I said, "Oh, come on! They're never going to think of me for that!"
0:12:55 > 0:12:58And he said, "Well, I can try."
0:12:58 > 0:13:01So I waited all day for him to phone me in the evening
0:13:01 > 0:13:04because he had gone to see Harry Cohn,
0:13:04 > 0:13:07this frightening monster of Columbia.
0:13:07 > 0:13:10And the phone rang in the evening.
0:13:10 > 0:13:14I picked it up and it was Bert. And he said... I said, "Well? What?"
0:13:14 > 0:13:17He said, "You're right. They kicked me out of the office."
0:13:17 > 0:13:20I said, "I told him not to go in there and make me a fool..."
0:13:20 > 0:13:22But he was a very clever man.
0:13:22 > 0:13:25All he did was go in there, make the suggestion and leave.
0:13:25 > 0:13:27And Harry Cohn screamed,
0:13:27 > 0:13:30"You've got to be crazy! Blah, blah, blah, blah!"
0:13:30 > 0:13:36The germ had been sown in his mind and the next day, it worked.
0:13:36 > 0:13:40He called in his producer, he called in Fred Zinneman,
0:13:40 > 0:13:42who was the director, and said,
0:13:42 > 0:13:45"That crazy Allenberg has got a suggestion for who to play Karen.
0:13:45 > 0:13:47"Deborah Kerr."
0:13:47 > 0:13:51And they both kind of went like that and said, "Well, of course!"
0:13:51 > 0:13:53And that's literally how that happened.
0:13:53 > 0:13:56And there is one sequence in that film which I'm going to show now.
0:13:56 > 0:14:00- One clip.- Oh, no! Not that one! - Oh, yes indeed. The famous one.
0:14:00 > 0:14:03Which really broke the mould.
0:14:03 > 0:14:06And it is one of the most famous scenes in that
0:14:06 > 0:14:08and many other movies, I suppose.
0:14:08 > 0:14:11It's the beach scene. Let's have a look at it now.
0:14:44 > 0:14:46I never knew it could be like this.
0:14:46 > 0:14:49Nobody ever kissed me the way you do.
0:14:49 > 0:14:52- Nobody?- No, nobody.
0:14:53 > 0:14:56Not even one? Out of all the men you've been kissed by?
0:14:56 > 0:15:00SHE GIGGLES Now, that would take some figuring.
0:15:00 > 0:15:03- How many men do you think there have been?- I wouldn't know.
0:15:03 > 0:15:06- Can't you give me a rough estimate? - Not without an adding machine.
0:15:06 > 0:15:09- Do you have your adding machine with you?- I forgot to bring it.
0:15:09 > 0:15:11Then I guess you won't find out, will you?
0:15:13 > 0:15:15APPLAUSE
0:15:25 > 0:15:28- Did you... You've got goose pimples, have you?- Yes, slightly.
0:15:28 > 0:15:32- It's a long time since I've seen it.- Is it?- Yes.
0:15:32 > 0:15:35- It all looks so comfortable on the screen.- Wasn't it?- No.
0:15:38 > 0:15:40Sandy!
0:15:40 > 0:15:43Did you realise at the time you were doing that particular scene
0:15:43 > 0:15:46that it was going to be such a crucial one, in a way? Because...
0:15:46 > 0:15:51I only say crucial because a lot of people would say that one scene is
0:15:51 > 0:15:54one of the landmarks in cinema because the whole permissive sex
0:15:54 > 0:15:56- movement in movies started from there.- Yes.
0:15:56 > 0:15:59I suppose it did in a way because now when one sees it,
0:15:59 > 0:16:01it just looks so absolutely...
0:16:01 > 0:16:06I mean... More... I mean, too normal, you know, practically.
0:16:06 > 0:16:11It's funny, isn't it, to think of really how startling that scene was.
0:16:11 > 0:16:15- Yes.- I mean, people were... As you know, it was...
0:16:15 > 0:16:19I look at it now and I can't believe it.
0:16:19 > 0:16:21Did people's attitude toward you in Hollywood
0:16:21 > 0:16:23change after making that film?
0:16:23 > 0:16:25I mean, the gossip columnists and people like that?
0:16:25 > 0:16:27Well, you know...
0:16:29 > 0:16:32Everybody... Everybody loves a success, don't they?
0:16:32 > 0:16:37And lots of people who you've never seen before in your life,
0:16:37 > 0:16:39you're suddenly their best friend.
0:16:39 > 0:16:41And always when... You know...
0:16:41 > 0:16:43But I don't think, as far as gossip columns are concerned,
0:16:43 > 0:16:46I've never had very much...
0:16:46 > 0:16:49You know, I was never very much affected by it, even on that.
0:16:49 > 0:16:52I think twice it said I was out in a nightclub with Frank Sinatra
0:16:52 > 0:16:56or something, which was totally untrue, as most of those things are.
0:16:56 > 0:16:58But I wasn't really... Didn't seem to...
0:16:58 > 0:17:00I didn't change much.
0:17:00 > 0:17:02Are there people that you watch in film acting
0:17:02 > 0:17:05who you can learn from?
0:17:05 > 0:17:08Or is it more a matter of simple technique there?
0:17:08 > 0:17:12- Of camera technique? - Oh, no. There's a lot of...
0:17:12 > 0:17:16There have been some, and are some, marvellous actors in the cinema.
0:17:16 > 0:17:18- You've starred with a few of them, haven't you?- Yes.
0:17:18 > 0:17:24I mean, someone like Spencer Tracy, who is a marvellous actor
0:17:24 > 0:17:29and just to watch him was, for me, wonderful.
0:17:31 > 0:17:33And in a completely different vein, of course,
0:17:33 > 0:17:39but simply brilliant at his particular work, Cary Grant.
0:17:40 > 0:17:45- Yes.- Fantastic timing. Comedy timing was absolutely...
0:17:45 > 0:17:49I've never been able to do it as well, but wonderful.
0:17:49 > 0:17:52What is it about certain people, certain actors,
0:17:52 > 0:17:57that makes them translate better to screen than others?
0:17:57 > 0:17:59What makes somebody a better screen actor than somebody else,
0:17:59 > 0:18:01given that they are both equal actors?
0:18:01 > 0:18:03- I think this is true, isn't it?- Yes.
0:18:03 > 0:18:08Well, of course it's a funny animal, that camera, isn't it?
0:18:08 > 0:18:12It sort of sees right into people
0:18:12 > 0:18:17and you can be acting that you're not that kind of person but you are.
0:18:17 > 0:18:20- It sees through you.- Yes.
0:18:20 > 0:18:24And I think probably the people who have...
0:18:24 > 0:18:28The people who are completely sort of direct in their thinking
0:18:28 > 0:18:32towards that animal, they come across very well.
0:18:34 > 0:18:37I don't think there are any rules but, I mean, you can't "act" act,
0:18:37 > 0:18:41- if you know what I mean, on the screen. You must be.- Yes.
0:18:41 > 0:18:46- I mean... I think must be, even if you're acting anyway.- Yes.
0:18:46 > 0:18:51You know, I agree with you. I just go on and I AM, you know.
0:18:51 > 0:18:55People said to me when I first went on film and said to me,
0:18:55 > 0:18:59"You can't tell lies on the screen, you know."
0:18:59 > 0:19:02I said, "I don't tell lies on the stage."
0:19:04 > 0:19:07- So it's just true to me, it has to be true.- It has to be true.
0:19:07 > 0:19:11- It has to be the truth you are speaking.- It has to be true.
0:19:11 > 0:19:14- And if you are not speaking the truth, then it shows.- It does.
0:19:14 > 0:19:17And there are certain people you see who...
0:19:17 > 0:19:19That's why you say, "They're not awfully good.
0:19:19 > 0:19:21"They're not a good actor."
0:19:21 > 0:19:24It's because they can't be true in what they are saying
0:19:24 > 0:19:27- and it comes off, it comes through on that screen like mad.- Yes.
0:19:27 > 0:19:33In 1986, Deborah was back discussing her career in a documentary
0:19:33 > 0:19:38narrated by Christopher Frayling called Not Just An English Rose.
0:19:39 > 0:19:44Once again, we find her reflecting on the films Tea And Sympathy
0:19:44 > 0:19:47and The King And I, but we start with the story of another
0:19:47 > 0:19:51of her most popular movies, King Solomon's Mines.
0:19:51 > 0:19:55I said, "Oh, Dory, there's a story I would just love to do
0:19:55 > 0:19:59"and that's The African Queen."
0:19:59 > 0:20:02And he said, "Belongs to Warner Brothers.
0:20:02 > 0:20:04"But we do have an African subject."
0:20:04 > 0:20:08Cos I had previously said, "I wouldn't mind going to Africa.
0:20:08 > 0:20:10"I would love to go to Africa."
0:20:10 > 0:20:12And then he said, "Belongs to Warner Brothers.
0:20:12 > 0:20:15"But we've got King Solomon's Mines
0:20:15 > 0:20:17"and if you don't mind going to Africa..."
0:20:17 > 0:20:19'There I was, on my way to Africa.'
0:20:19 > 0:20:21SHE GROANS
0:20:35 > 0:20:37ALLIGATOR GROWLS
0:20:37 > 0:20:39SHE SCREAMS
0:20:39 > 0:20:43'I didn't get bitten to pieces by mosquitoes
0:20:43 > 0:20:47'but poor Stewart Granger, his back was covered with mosquito bites.'
0:20:47 > 0:20:51- How did he react to the location himself?- Well, I mean, he...
0:20:51 > 0:20:55You know, Jimmy's a grumbler so everything was always wrong,
0:20:55 > 0:20:57even if it wasn't!
0:20:57 > 0:21:01- What happened? - There was an animal, a large animal.
0:21:01 > 0:21:03- In here?- No. There. Outside.
0:21:06 > 0:21:09What is it?
0:21:09 > 0:21:13- Nothing. She's been dreaming again. - It was not a dream.
0:21:13 > 0:21:16'I remember one day he wasn't shooting
0:21:16 > 0:21:19'and what he wanted to do was go off and, can you believe it,'
0:21:19 > 0:21:21shoot a buffalo!
0:21:21 > 0:21:26Because I think they are such wonderful creatures, you know. But...
0:21:26 > 0:21:30And he came back absolutely scared stiff.
0:21:30 > 0:21:32You could tell.
0:21:32 > 0:21:36There was a line of white on his mouth from sheer fear.
0:21:36 > 0:21:38It's not much fun having a buffalo come at you.
0:21:49 > 0:21:53'It was a great experience. It was rough, it was hot, it was tiring.
0:21:53 > 0:21:56'There were flies, there were discomforts beyond belief.'
0:21:56 > 0:22:00Although I had a real bath in my tent,
0:22:00 > 0:22:04with a pipe that led to an old huge oil drum
0:22:04 > 0:22:06which was filled with water
0:22:06 > 0:22:09and a boy who lit a fire underneath it every evening
0:22:09 > 0:22:11so that I would have hot water for my bath.
0:22:11 > 0:22:13'It was sort of such an adventure.
0:22:15 > 0:22:18'At Murchison Falls, that we had to climb'
0:22:18 > 0:22:21300 feet in those temperatures every day,
0:22:21 > 0:22:23up to the top where, of course,
0:22:23 > 0:22:26it was the one year they hadn't had much rain and, of course,
0:22:26 > 0:22:29'the falls were supposed to be much heavier and bigger.
0:22:29 > 0:22:32'But as it was, there she takes her bath.
0:22:32 > 0:22:37'Meanwhile, having cut off all her glorious long, red hair
0:22:37 > 0:22:41'and descending with a Toni home permanent!
0:22:41 > 0:22:43'Not a hair out of place.'
0:22:43 > 0:22:46'That was always a laughing matter for me.'
0:22:46 > 0:22:48WATERFALL ROARS Oh, I cut it!
0:22:48 > 0:22:50What?
0:22:51 > 0:22:54- I cut it.- Ah! Good idea.
0:22:56 > 0:22:58After severing her contract with MGM,
0:22:58 > 0:23:01she headed for the Broadway stage with the controversial
0:23:01 > 0:23:05Tea And Sympathy, a play which dealt in a fairly cautious way
0:23:05 > 0:23:08with the themes of gayness and adultery.
0:23:08 > 0:23:11Its huge success did for her on the stage what From Here To Eternity
0:23:11 > 0:23:13had done on film.
0:23:13 > 0:23:16But the film version of Tea And Sympathy
0:23:16 > 0:23:18ran into censorship problems.
0:23:18 > 0:23:23At that time you could not use the word "homosexual",
0:23:23 > 0:23:26nor could you imply that a person was.
0:23:26 > 0:23:30I mean, it was absolutely taboo.
0:23:30 > 0:23:35So, of course, this weakened the film version
0:23:35 > 0:23:39because instead of the boy, who was by no means a homosexual,
0:23:39 > 0:23:43he was just a very sensitive boy who like playing the guitar,
0:23:43 > 0:23:47but he was seen with a teacher who was known to be.
0:23:48 > 0:23:51And so, as his father says to him,
0:23:51 > 0:23:54"My boy, you are known by the company you keep."
0:23:57 > 0:23:59And so this obsesses him
0:23:59 > 0:24:03and he's pathetic, going to the village tart,
0:24:03 > 0:24:05you know, to try to prove himself a man
0:24:05 > 0:24:09and ending up in sort of disgust and horror.
0:24:09 > 0:24:15And it was such a pity that strength was not in the cinema version.
0:24:15 > 0:24:18Despite having done From Here To Eternity
0:24:18 > 0:24:21and despite having done Tea And Sympathy,
0:24:21 > 0:24:24that image of gentility still stuck in everybody's mind.
0:24:24 > 0:24:28Why is that, do you think? You couldn't shake it off.
0:24:28 > 0:24:31It puzzles me and every time I'm asked,
0:24:31 > 0:24:36"Doesn't your ladylike reputation irritate you?"
0:24:36 > 0:24:39And I said, "It irritates me how many times I'm asked that!
0:24:39 > 0:24:41"I can tell you!"
0:24:41 > 0:24:43So there, you've irritated me now!
0:24:44 > 0:24:48But it's a very curious thing, I suppose.
0:24:48 > 0:24:52Either it's a mixture of first impressions
0:24:52 > 0:24:55and something innate in me
0:24:55 > 0:25:00that I'm perhaps not even aware of myself that, as I said before,
0:25:00 > 0:25:04comes through on that camera and you can't do anything about that.
0:25:04 > 0:25:06You can't change it.
0:25:06 > 0:25:09You can, as I hope I did in From Here To Eternity,
0:25:09 > 0:25:14make people forget the English rose for a couple of hours.
0:25:14 > 0:25:16The governess Mrs Anna in the King And I,
0:25:16 > 0:25:20a much sought-after part following its success on Broadway,
0:25:20 > 0:25:24gave Deborah Kerr her first chance in a musical opposite Yul Brynner,
0:25:24 > 0:25:28who had made the show his very own after playing in it for four years.
0:25:28 > 0:25:30I never battled with him
0:25:30 > 0:25:34but he did have pretty fixed ideas on the way things should be done
0:25:34 > 0:25:36and in due respect to him,
0:25:36 > 0:25:42he was taken notice of by the director.
0:25:42 > 0:25:46And an enormous amount of the success of that musical is due to Yul.
0:25:48 > 0:25:50Like this. No?
0:25:52 > 0:25:54- Yes.- Come.
0:25:57 > 0:25:59MUSIC: "Shall We Dance" by Rodgers & Hammerstein
0:26:03 > 0:26:06'I don't often go to see rushes because they make me shy of myself
0:26:06 > 0:26:09'but I did go because I wanted to see...
0:26:10 > 0:26:13'..what magic there was in that skirt and those hoops
0:26:13 > 0:26:18'as we did the dance in Shall We Dance.
0:26:18 > 0:26:20'It really was quite stunning.
0:26:20 > 0:26:22'Say it, as I do, myself!'
0:26:33 > 0:26:36'Some of the songs in the King And I were really too difficult.'
0:26:36 > 0:26:40I was still on the road with Tea And Sympathy and everywhere I went I was
0:26:40 > 0:26:44taking singing lessons and hoping I would be able to do the whole thing.
0:26:44 > 0:26:47Well, no. It's not enough time, you know.
0:26:47 > 0:26:52You've got to have started when you were four and I certainly hadn't.
0:26:52 > 0:26:55But I had enough to be able to do some of the lead-ins
0:26:55 > 0:27:00and then we found this wonderful singer, Marni Nixon,
0:27:00 > 0:27:05who had the great talent to make her voice sound like other people.
0:27:05 > 0:27:09And we recorded together in a booth.
0:27:09 > 0:27:12Then Ken Darby, who was the sound head magician
0:27:12 > 0:27:15at 20th Century Fox in those days,
0:27:15 > 0:27:18he mixed the voices so perfectly
0:27:18 > 0:27:24that it really is awfully hard to know when it's not me.
0:27:24 > 0:27:27But I did sing... I did sing Whistle A Happy Tune.
0:27:27 > 0:27:30And you actually became a sort of top 10 recording artist.
0:27:30 > 0:27:33With a little help from my dear friend, yes.
0:27:35 > 0:27:37The unit at work setting up for shooting
0:27:37 > 0:27:41and the heavy equipment is put into position.
0:27:41 > 0:27:43Huston and Morris survey the stretch of beach
0:27:43 > 0:27:46they've chosen to film the sequence in which Bob,
0:27:46 > 0:27:51as US Marine Corporal Allison, and Sister Angela hunt turtles for food.
0:27:51 > 0:27:56Powerful arcs add to the heat as Deborah's make-up is fixed.
0:27:58 > 0:28:02A light meter check and the clapper boy signals a take.
0:28:05 > 0:28:07The story of Heaven Knows, Mr Allison -
0:28:07 > 0:28:10nun meets Marine on a desert island -
0:28:10 > 0:28:13that could easily have been really tacky in perhaps lesser hands
0:28:13 > 0:28:15than John Huston's.
0:28:15 > 0:28:18Yes, it could have been quite a tasteless situation
0:28:18 > 0:28:21but John had already directed African Queen,
0:28:21 > 0:28:24in which the situation was slightly similar.
0:28:24 > 0:28:26Only, of course, it wasn't a nun
0:28:26 > 0:28:29but it was a slightly similar situation.
0:28:29 > 0:28:33'Then Robert Mitchum turning in the performance he did,
0:28:33 > 0:28:38'which was so wonderful. Such a marvellous actor.
0:28:38 > 0:28:41'And I had never met him before. We met on the island of Tobago
0:28:41 > 0:28:45'and I wondered if he was going to be...
0:28:45 > 0:28:47'You know, live up to his reputation of...'
0:28:47 > 0:28:50- Live down to his reputation. - 'Live down to his reputation, yes!'
0:28:50 > 0:28:53You like it?
0:28:53 > 0:28:56Oh, it's beautiful, Mr Allison.
0:28:56 > 0:28:59The teeth are a little wide apart, maybe,
0:28:59 > 0:29:02but it was the best I could do with only a knife.
0:29:04 > 0:29:07- You really like it, ma'am?- Oh, yes.
0:29:07 > 0:29:12But, you see, we don't use combs.
0:29:12 > 0:29:15- Our hair is worn very short.- It is?
0:29:17 > 0:29:19From the day we take our vows.
0:29:20 > 0:29:22'I discovered not only a great friend
0:29:22 > 0:29:27'but an extraordinary actor who has done some wonderful things.'
0:29:27 > 0:29:34A musician, a poet, an extremely well-informed person,
0:29:34 > 0:29:36great sense of humour.
0:29:36 > 0:29:40Quite unprintable at times! Oh, Mitchum!
0:29:40 > 0:29:43'I remember a reporter coming to interview him.
0:29:43 > 0:29:49'He said, "Tell me, how do you like working with John Huston?"
0:29:49 > 0:29:51And Mitchum said, "Well...
0:29:52 > 0:29:57"..he's taller than Mervyn LeRoy." And that was all the poor man got!
0:29:57 > 0:29:59In fact, Huston had a pretty wild sense of humour,
0:29:59 > 0:30:02was reputed to have had.
0:30:02 > 0:30:04Wasn't there an incident involving you in a swamp?
0:30:04 > 0:30:08Oh, my goodness! That awful swamp!
0:30:08 > 0:30:11It was disgusting. It was horrible.
0:30:11 > 0:30:17And John said, "Go out there in the middle, honey."
0:30:17 > 0:30:21And so I said, "What? Through all this?"
0:30:21 > 0:30:23He said, "Out in the middle, honey."
0:30:25 > 0:30:28So I waded through all this stuff and there were leeches all over
0:30:28 > 0:30:31the bottom of my robe and the stench was unbelievable.
0:30:33 > 0:30:36And all I had to do was run through the swamp
0:30:36 > 0:30:39and then collapse at the end of it.
0:30:41 > 0:30:45Which meant I was covered in alligator excretions
0:30:45 > 0:30:49from head to foot and when the shot was over, John said,
0:30:49 > 0:30:53"Fine. Cut. Have we got that? We don't need to do that again?"
0:30:53 > 0:30:55And I went up to him
0:30:55 > 0:30:59and he was in his gleaming white pants and white shirt
0:30:59 > 0:31:04and I flung my arms around his neck and pressed my body against him
0:31:04 > 0:31:09and all this filth went all over his jacket and his shirt and his slacks!
0:31:09 > 0:31:11And he didn't think it was funny at all.
0:31:11 > 0:31:14The Sundowners, another popular success,
0:31:14 > 0:31:17took her on location to the Australian desert,
0:31:17 > 0:31:21where she played the long-suffering wife of sheep driver Robert Mitchum.
0:31:21 > 0:31:25The film resulted in her sixth Academy Award nomination.
0:31:25 > 0:31:28I loved the movie. I should have won that year.
0:31:28 > 0:31:30I should have!
0:31:30 > 0:31:33Here's your half-crown back.
0:31:33 > 0:31:35Now then, you get on back home to America
0:31:35 > 0:31:38and there is no fountain here for you to throw it in.
0:31:38 > 0:31:41I shall treasure it always.
0:31:41 > 0:31:44And then from the outback to a converted West End comedy,
0:31:44 > 0:31:46- in a sense, The Grass Is Greener. - Yes.
0:31:46 > 0:31:49'Converted West End comedy is right!
0:31:50 > 0:31:53'With Osterley Park, a beautiful home, thrown in,
0:31:53 > 0:31:55'which you couldn't have on the stage.
0:31:55 > 0:32:00'But that was... That was great fun to make because, again,
0:32:00 > 0:32:03'my old sparring partner Robert Mitchum'
0:32:03 > 0:32:07and again, my old sparring partner Cary Grant,
0:32:07 > 0:32:10who I had made Affair To Remember with
0:32:10 > 0:32:13and made quite a few people weep, I hope.
0:32:13 > 0:32:17But we had a lot of fun doing it. It was a charming piece.
0:32:17 > 0:32:20Don't be frightened. We are all friends here.
0:32:20 > 0:32:22Victor, can't you do something?
0:32:22 > 0:32:24Darling, you've got the wrong end of the stick.
0:32:24 > 0:32:27- He's only going to clean them. - What's the matter with your arm?
0:32:27 > 0:32:30- What's been happening here?- Charles and I had a duel.
0:32:30 > 0:32:33- I missed him.- A duel?
0:32:33 > 0:32:36In 1984, the Cannes film Festival formally recognised her
0:32:36 > 0:32:38contribution to the art of film,
0:32:38 > 0:32:42The first British star to be honoured in this way for 12 years.
0:32:42 > 0:32:45Shortly after this, she was tempted back the cinema by the part
0:32:45 > 0:32:48of an elderly widow struggling to preserve
0:32:48 > 0:32:50her late husband's Assam Garden.
0:32:50 > 0:32:53It was a joy working on that movie. I adored it.
0:32:53 > 0:32:55- I wanted it to go on forever. - Hard work in the garden, it looked.
0:32:55 > 0:32:58Oh, my God! The garden and the weather and the rain
0:32:58 > 0:33:03and the mud and the hosepipes and the ruddy bananas and the...
0:33:08 > 0:33:10Good for the bananas.
0:33:10 > 0:33:13Oh, Lordy! The steps!
0:33:13 > 0:33:16I've gone and left the steps out.
0:33:16 > 0:33:19Of all the British actresses that have worked in cinema,
0:33:19 > 0:33:24you're the one who has really lasted. What's your secret?
0:33:24 > 0:33:27I have no secret!
0:33:27 > 0:33:30I've had an awful lot of luck. I've had immense luck.
0:33:32 > 0:33:34And I've probably...
0:33:34 > 0:33:40Cos I haven't taken that dubious thing called being a star,
0:33:40 > 0:33:43I haven't taken it too seriously.
0:33:43 > 0:33:46I just wanted to be good at what I'm doing.
0:33:48 > 0:33:54Debra Kerr died in 2007 in Suffolk, aged 86.
0:33:55 > 0:33:58In her lifetime, being good at what she was doing
0:33:58 > 0:34:04earned her numerous film honours - a CBE, a BAFTA special award
0:34:04 > 0:34:08and six Best Actress Oscar nominations -
0:34:08 > 0:34:11the most times an actress has been nominated in that category
0:34:11 > 0:34:13without ever winning.
0:34:14 > 0:34:18In 1994, the Academy put things right,
0:34:18 > 0:34:21awarding her an honorary Oscar.
0:34:21 > 0:34:24The citation that came with it captured her perfectly,
0:34:24 > 0:34:26calling her, as it did,
0:34:26 > 0:34:32"An artist of impeccable grace and beauty whose motion picture career
0:34:32 > 0:34:38"has always stood for perfection, discipline and elegance."