0:00:02 > 0:00:051830 - Victorian working-class Britain...
0:00:08 > 0:00:11..a labyrinth of destitution,
0:00:11 > 0:00:15street crime, gang warfare,
0:00:15 > 0:00:18drink addiction and welfare dependency.
0:00:20 > 0:00:26Into this dark continent came an army of upper-class do-gooders
0:00:26 > 0:00:29to study and help the problem families they found.
0:00:32 > 0:00:35And on their expeditions into the slums,
0:00:35 > 0:00:37these missionaries came face-to-face
0:00:37 > 0:00:41with Britain's outcast and unrecorded.
0:00:44 > 0:00:48We knew very little about the history of our family.
0:00:48 > 0:00:51She's sort of lower class, not worth anything.
0:00:51 > 0:00:52The working class?
0:00:52 > 0:00:54Yeah, get over there! They're only crap.
0:00:56 > 0:00:59Now, using the explorers' written accounts of their meetings
0:00:59 > 0:01:01with the underclass,
0:01:01 > 0:01:05we've traced their descendants, from Victorian times
0:01:05 > 0:01:08all the way down to the present day,
0:01:08 > 0:01:12to find out what happened to the families that history forgot.
0:01:12 > 0:01:15To think about where our family's come in 200 years,
0:01:15 > 0:01:19from just one girl - I think she'd be amazed.
0:01:19 > 0:01:21We don't talk about it.
0:01:23 > 0:01:26A story told by the descendants themselves.
0:01:29 > 0:01:32We are all prisoners of our family histories.
0:01:32 > 0:01:35Don't forget where you've come from. Don't forget.
0:01:36 > 0:01:40Tonight, the true story of three criminal sisters
0:01:40 > 0:01:43raised in Shoreditch in the heart of London's underworld
0:01:43 > 0:01:48and banished to a thief colony which became a nation.
0:01:48 > 0:01:51If that's my badge of honour, as descendant of convicts,
0:01:51 > 0:01:52I'm quite proud of it.
0:02:01 > 0:02:06My name is Pat Wardley and I'm the great-great-granddaughter
0:02:06 > 0:02:08of Mary-Ann Gadbury.
0:02:08 > 0:02:12And this is my husband, Robert Wardley.
0:02:12 > 0:02:14We've been married 50 years come next year.
0:02:14 > 0:02:17I can't say we've never had a cross word, cos we have!
0:02:17 > 0:02:19THEY LAUGH
0:02:21 > 0:02:25I grew up less than a mile away from Shoreditch,
0:02:25 > 0:02:27where the Gadbury girls grew up.
0:02:30 > 0:02:34I'll be truthful with you - I'm really proud of my family
0:02:34 > 0:02:39and my ancestors, who gave us this incredible story today.
0:02:46 > 0:02:49Our story begins in Victorian London
0:02:49 > 0:02:53with the illegitimate son of King George IV -
0:02:53 > 0:02:54William Miles.
0:02:55 > 0:02:58Miles was a slum tourist and criminologist.
0:02:58 > 0:03:03He thought that Britain was in the grip of a crisis -
0:03:03 > 0:03:04the growth of a criminal class,
0:03:04 > 0:03:06where children was being
0:03:06 > 0:03:10brought up by their mothers and fathers into a life of crime.
0:03:11 > 0:03:14To prove his point, he went to a prison hulk
0:03:14 > 0:03:17and interviewed the young villains that was there.
0:03:20 > 0:03:22Written down nearly 200 years ago,
0:03:22 > 0:03:25they are the first interviews with young criminals.
0:03:27 > 0:03:31And funny enough, they're a little glimpse into our own family story.
0:03:34 > 0:03:37I lost my mum when I was nine but the bigger boys took me
0:03:37 > 0:03:40to Mrs Burk's lodging house in Essex Street, Whitechapel,
0:03:40 > 0:03:43where I got my bed for three pence a night.
0:03:44 > 0:03:4930 or 40 thieves and beggars lived in this house - most of them boys.
0:03:49 > 0:03:52We go out stealing in the daytime.
0:03:55 > 0:04:00Two boys took me to a house in Shoreditch owned by a Jew.
0:04:02 > 0:04:06He agreed to board and lodge me for two and six a week,
0:04:06 > 0:04:10so long as I brought and sold to him all that I might steal.
0:04:12 > 0:04:16I know what you're thinking - these interviews ain't real,
0:04:16 > 0:04:18that they're nicked from Oliver Twist.
0:04:18 > 0:04:19But as it turns out,
0:04:19 > 0:04:24Miles' interviews were published three years before Dickens' book
0:04:24 > 0:04:26and it's more than possible
0:04:26 > 0:04:29that Dickens based his characters on Miles' interviews.
0:04:29 > 0:04:31Just a game, Oliver! Just a game!
0:04:33 > 0:04:36They played games to teach the little ones how to pick pockets.
0:04:37 > 0:04:42I did a full night in training, and then was able to go out
0:04:42 > 0:04:45to screen and assist the boys as they picked pockets.
0:04:47 > 0:04:50Sometimes, a young hand gets taken up...
0:04:50 > 0:04:52You can tell your story to the magistrate
0:04:52 > 0:04:53and see if he believes it!
0:04:53 > 0:04:55The bigger boys are sorry for it
0:04:55 > 0:04:58and blame themselves for having taken him out too soon.
0:04:59 > 0:05:03Transportation is looked upon by each thief as an event
0:05:03 > 0:05:05which must occur sometimes or another.
0:05:05 > 0:05:09And the only twist is to keep from it as long as they can.
0:05:16 > 0:05:21It wasn't just the young lads that the upper class were shocked at -
0:05:21 > 0:05:24it was the young girls as well.
0:05:24 > 0:05:28Some of these girls was vicious and aggressive
0:05:28 > 0:05:32and they was part of the criminal crowd that Miles was going on about.
0:05:34 > 0:05:37Miles wanted to talk to one of the young girls
0:05:37 > 0:05:39and a prison officer, in the end,
0:05:39 > 0:05:43took him into one of the cells where there was a young girl there
0:05:43 > 0:05:46from Shoreditch who was a repeat offender.
0:05:48 > 0:05:53That was when he met our ancestor, Caroline Gadbury.
0:06:01 > 0:06:04I got acquainted with girls who used to go shoplifting.
0:06:04 > 0:06:08One time, I was at large for about two months, and during that time,
0:06:08 > 0:06:10committed at least 40-50 robberies
0:06:10 > 0:06:12without detection,
0:06:12 > 0:06:16going out shoplifting two, three times a day.
0:06:16 > 0:06:21I was never afraid of the police. I was intimate with a policeman.
0:06:21 > 0:06:22I used to give him money.
0:06:25 > 0:06:26I'm Madeleine Ogilvie.
0:06:26 > 0:06:30I'm a Tasmanian Labour politician
0:06:30 > 0:06:32and I'm descended from Caroline Gadbury.
0:06:35 > 0:06:39By the time she was 12, Caroline was already getting into trouble.
0:06:39 > 0:06:40Caroline and her older sister, Sarah,
0:06:40 > 0:06:42were at the centre of a gang of pickpockets.
0:06:42 > 0:06:44They were clever and organised.
0:06:48 > 0:06:52And they were robbing wealthy Londoners on a systematic scale.
0:06:54 > 0:06:56We would go every day stealing,
0:06:56 > 0:06:59make as much as £3-£4 on some days,
0:06:59 > 0:07:01which was divided between us.
0:07:01 > 0:07:04We'd go to plays and dances, buy smart clothes,
0:07:04 > 0:07:07treat others to various things.
0:07:07 > 0:07:10We were expert robbers and used to practise it.
0:07:11 > 0:07:15As soon as she got out of prison, Caroline started to reoffend.
0:07:18 > 0:07:22But this time, she was in cahoots with her other sister, Mary-Ann.
0:07:28 > 0:07:30Caroline and Mary-Ann turned up in a haberdashery shop
0:07:30 > 0:07:32in Chiswell Street in the city.
0:07:33 > 0:07:37They were smartly dressed and asked to see some silk handkerchiefs.
0:07:39 > 0:07:40Mary-Ann had her baby son with her.
0:07:40 > 0:07:44He started to cry, so she stepped out of the shop.
0:07:44 > 0:07:47One of the shopkeepers noticed she was walking strangely,
0:07:47 > 0:07:49so he held her up at the door.
0:07:49 > 0:07:50When the police arrived,
0:07:50 > 0:07:54they pulled 20 yards of fabric from under Mary-Ann's dress.
0:07:57 > 0:08:00Caroline realised the game was up.
0:08:00 > 0:08:04She made a run for it but she got caught in the street by a copper.
0:08:06 > 0:08:09She didn't go quietly - she screamed, she lashed out,
0:08:09 > 0:08:11while a crowd of 100 people looked on.
0:08:14 > 0:08:15I'm Michael Slattery.
0:08:15 > 0:08:19I'm a judge at the Supreme Court of New South Wales
0:08:19 > 0:08:22and I'm Caroline Gadbury's great-great-grandson.
0:08:24 > 0:08:25Silence. All stand.
0:08:30 > 0:08:34When Caroline was arrested, the evidence is pretty weak.
0:08:34 > 0:08:35She's certainly in the company of the others
0:08:35 > 0:08:38but she didn't actually do anything!
0:08:38 > 0:08:41The astonishing thing about her trial
0:08:41 > 0:08:46is that it seems to have taken, by my reading of the transcript,
0:08:46 > 0:08:48no more than 20 minutes to half an hour.
0:08:48 > 0:08:51Caroline was not able to give evidence in her own defence
0:08:51 > 0:08:53which, to us, seems utterly remarkable -
0:08:53 > 0:08:57you're regarded as biased and not a good witness.
0:08:57 > 0:09:00When the prosecution case finished,
0:09:00 > 0:09:04there's just a pause and then the judge convicts her.
0:09:04 > 0:09:09She was sentenced to transportation for seven years,
0:09:09 > 0:09:13which was effectively life, cos she couldn't get back -
0:09:13 > 0:09:17a sentence which, by any modern standards,
0:09:17 > 0:09:18would be described as harsh.
0:09:49 > 0:09:52Round the world, the name Van Diemen's Land conjured up
0:09:52 > 0:09:55images of the penal settlement and its harshness.
0:09:57 > 0:09:59And we see this in the book and the film
0:09:59 > 0:10:01For The Term Of His Natural Life,
0:10:01 > 0:10:05which shows Van Diemen's Land in the worst possible light.
0:10:24 > 0:10:27On this strange island, Caroline was put to work
0:10:27 > 0:10:30in the house of a new master, a free settler,
0:10:30 > 0:10:31as an indentured servant.
0:10:33 > 0:10:37Just a few months earlier, Caroline was a cocky, self-assured Londoner.
0:10:37 > 0:10:39Now she was a virtual slave.
0:10:39 > 0:10:42Well, she wasn't going to put up with that for long.
0:10:46 > 0:10:50Um... Caroline Gadbury's convictions in Van Diemen's Land.
0:10:50 > 0:10:56"March 1839 - Master Campbell found drunk and reprimanded.
0:10:56 > 0:11:02"March 1839 - Master Campbell, absent and found in a public house,
0:11:02 > 0:11:05"given 16 days in a cell on bread and water
0:11:05 > 0:11:07"and then returned to service."
0:11:07 > 0:11:10After she got out, Caroline was sent to a new master
0:11:10 > 0:11:12and she was found drunk and disorderly.
0:11:12 > 0:11:16Her list of convictions reads like the story of a young woman
0:11:16 > 0:11:18spiralling out of control.
0:11:18 > 0:11:20"Master Lewis, absent.
0:11:20 > 0:11:24"July 1841, Master Sloane. Disorderly conduct, 14 days.
0:11:24 > 0:11:27"Absconding, sentenced to 12 months in the house of correction.
0:11:27 > 0:11:30"Misconduct, ten days' solitary confinement."
0:11:31 > 0:11:33The first three years that she's here,
0:11:33 > 0:11:38the irrational reoffending is all based in one direction -
0:11:38 > 0:11:40it's all basically escape-oriented.
0:11:40 > 0:11:43She didn't like being a servant - you could tell that.
0:11:43 > 0:11:45She was too independent-minded.
0:11:45 > 0:11:46I mean, I can hear,
0:11:46 > 0:11:50across the centuries, her frustration,
0:11:50 > 0:11:52and she's clearly trying to get out.
0:11:55 > 0:11:57Caroline calmed down
0:11:57 > 0:12:00and her reoffending became less and less frequent.
0:12:00 > 0:12:02She was finally given her ticket of leave,
0:12:02 > 0:12:05which was her passport to freedom, in 1845.
0:12:18 > 0:12:22Caroline met Charles Chapman, another convict from London,
0:12:22 > 0:12:23and they had three kids together.
0:12:23 > 0:12:26Caroline named her children
0:12:26 > 0:12:31after the mum and sisters she'd left behind in London.
0:12:31 > 0:12:33But two of Caroline's daughters died
0:12:33 > 0:12:36and then so did her husband, Charles.
0:12:38 > 0:12:41It left her alone with just little Sarah.
0:12:43 > 0:12:47Caroline and Sarah lived on their own for five years.
0:12:47 > 0:12:50I don't know how they survived - it must have been pretty hard.
0:12:54 > 0:12:57Then one day, Caroline met George Ogilvie -
0:12:57 > 0:12:59an Aberdeen hell-raiser.
0:13:03 > 0:13:05He'd been married but she'd died,
0:13:05 > 0:13:08leaving George to bring up their only son, Jimmy, alone.
0:13:12 > 0:13:15They fell in love, got married and merged their families.
0:13:19 > 0:13:24Young Sarah had a new dad and little Jimmy finally had a new mum.
0:13:30 > 0:13:35The Cockney girl and the Aberdonian had built a stable and loving family
0:13:35 > 0:13:38that was going to reshape Tasmanian history.
0:13:41 > 0:13:44Jimmy's sons, Eric and Albert Ogilvie,
0:13:44 > 0:13:46were born in 1890 and 1892.
0:13:50 > 0:13:54The boys grew up above a pub in a working-class household
0:13:54 > 0:13:57with a rough and ready group of regulars.
0:14:01 > 0:14:03My name is Albert Ogilvie,
0:14:03 > 0:14:06I'm a descendant of the convict George Ogilvie
0:14:06 > 0:14:10whose second wife was the convict Caroline Gadbury.
0:14:13 > 0:14:17Albert and Eric grew up in this working hotel,
0:14:17 > 0:14:20with obviously a lot of working-class people
0:14:20 > 0:14:23and they led a hard-ish life,
0:14:23 > 0:14:27they were required to help with washing the beer glasses
0:14:27 > 0:14:31each morning after the night's service the night before.
0:14:31 > 0:14:33The kids used to tease Albert and Eric
0:14:33 > 0:14:36with bottles of ginger beer from their mother's pub.
0:14:36 > 0:14:40They took the bullying to heart and the experience of this helped shape
0:14:40 > 0:14:45Eric and Albert's political philosophy for their entire careers.
0:14:45 > 0:14:47They'd encountered the class snobbery
0:14:47 > 0:14:50against which they railed for their entire lives.
0:14:52 > 0:14:57Albert and Eric started to build successful careers as young lawyers.
0:14:57 > 0:15:00The political climate of those times did not favour kids
0:15:00 > 0:15:04who came from where Eric and Albert had come from
0:15:04 > 0:15:07and they had to work hard and they had to find a way.
0:15:07 > 0:15:08They got involved in politics
0:15:08 > 0:15:12and they looked for ways to push for a better deal for working people.
0:15:14 > 0:15:17They were dedicated men, who had real battles to fight.
0:15:17 > 0:15:21They wanted to help the needy and the disadvantaged.
0:15:21 > 0:15:23It was almost religion to them.
0:15:23 > 0:15:27My father tells me that he and Albert
0:15:27 > 0:15:30went around the houses of Battery Point,
0:15:30 > 0:15:33which was a very poor suburb in those days,
0:15:33 > 0:15:36and found men who were at home doing the washing,
0:15:36 > 0:15:39unable to get employment and he went to these men and said,
0:15:39 > 0:15:41"Instead of the dole, we're going to give you work
0:15:41 > 0:15:43"building Mount Wellington Road."
0:15:43 > 0:15:46What a clever politician, that the Premier himself
0:15:46 > 0:15:51walks into a working man's cottage and gives him employment.
0:15:51 > 0:15:53Obviously it would attract votes,
0:15:53 > 0:15:56but that wasn't the selling point, it was to give them work
0:15:56 > 0:15:57and get the road built
0:15:57 > 0:16:00and to stimulate the economy of the state.
0:16:01 > 0:16:03The working people of Tasmania
0:16:03 > 0:16:06had found their voice and found their champions.
0:16:09 > 0:16:13Almost unbelievably, the convict kids
0:16:13 > 0:16:15had become the Premier
0:16:15 > 0:16:18and the Attorney General of the state.
0:16:18 > 0:16:22He and his brother, Eric James Ogilvie, my father,
0:16:22 > 0:16:26became Premier of the state of Tasmania
0:16:26 > 0:16:29with his brother at his side in the Cabinet as Attorney General.
0:16:33 > 0:16:38Albert's career included a world trip in the late 1930s,
0:16:38 > 0:16:42attending George V's coronation in England.
0:16:42 > 0:16:45They had meetings with many of the people
0:16:45 > 0:16:47in the highest positions of power in London.
0:16:47 > 0:16:51He went to visit Mussolini in Rome.
0:16:51 > 0:16:54In Germany, they sought a meeting with Hitler.
0:16:54 > 0:16:57- LAUGHING:- But he had other things on his mind
0:16:57 > 0:16:59and declined to meet them.
0:17:01 > 0:17:04VOICEOVER: Mr AG Ogilvie, Premier of Tasmania.
0:17:05 > 0:17:10I am convinced that the defences of Australia are totally inadequate
0:17:10 > 0:17:12and need strengthening as speedily as possible.
0:17:12 > 0:17:16But let us also remember that no people in any country
0:17:16 > 0:17:20are assured of the right to live their lives in peace.
0:17:22 > 0:17:27Well, in 1939, Albert George Ogilvie collapsed
0:17:27 > 0:17:29and very shortly thereafter died.
0:17:29 > 0:17:33The funeral which followed was a state funeral.
0:17:33 > 0:17:3840,000 people, we're told, lined the streets of Hobart
0:17:38 > 0:17:41and the whole state came to a standstill for that event.
0:17:44 > 0:17:45It's a remarkable story.
0:17:46 > 0:17:48Within two generations,
0:17:48 > 0:17:51this family had gone from forced migration
0:17:51 > 0:17:53to the Premiership of Tasmania
0:17:53 > 0:17:56in a new social order that they helped create.
0:17:59 > 0:18:03My uncle and my father were like John F Kennedy and Robert Kennedy.
0:18:04 > 0:18:07Premier and Attorney General.
0:18:07 > 0:18:11From that rather inauspicious beginning,
0:18:11 > 0:18:13they rose to the greatest political heights
0:18:13 > 0:18:16and reforming heights this state has known.
0:18:16 > 0:18:18An extraordinarily astonishing achievement
0:18:18 > 0:18:21when you look back at it with the value of hindsight.
0:18:39 > 0:18:43We're walking here to what's called the dock
0:18:43 > 0:18:48and this is where the prisoners were brought up, the accused.
0:18:48 > 0:18:49They sat in the dock here,
0:18:49 > 0:18:52they had come up from the cells below,
0:18:52 > 0:18:54and down here were holding cells
0:18:54 > 0:18:57in the old...what was the old prison.
0:18:57 > 0:18:59- Did you know your ancestors were convicts?- No.
0:18:59 > 0:19:01I did not.
0:19:01 > 0:19:04- You must have known something? - No, I didn't.
0:19:04 > 0:19:07It was never mentioned in my upbringing.
0:19:07 > 0:19:09- It was never mentioned?- No.
0:19:09 > 0:19:11That all your ancestors are convicts?
0:19:11 > 0:19:14It just didn't arise.
0:19:14 > 0:19:17So I don't know whether it was deliberately hidden.
0:19:17 > 0:19:20You'd think my father must have known all this.
0:19:21 > 0:19:23Never mentioned.
0:19:23 > 0:19:25When's the last time you were in this room?
0:19:25 > 0:19:29Oh, well, it would be 40-plus years ago, yes. So I'm 74.
0:19:29 > 0:19:33I would have spent hundreds of hours in this courtroom.
0:19:36 > 0:19:39Is there such a thing as a bad person?
0:19:41 > 0:19:44I have seen in my own career as a barrister
0:19:44 > 0:19:46many people who have had strife in their life
0:19:46 > 0:19:49and then circumstances have changed
0:19:49 > 0:19:50and they've led blameless and,
0:19:50 > 0:19:52indeed, praiseworthy lives thereafter.
0:19:54 > 0:19:57Every human being has great potential
0:19:57 > 0:20:01for both good and evil, so it can turn on a dime.
0:20:01 > 0:20:02Life is unpredictable.
0:20:05 > 0:20:08Caroline had fire and character, yeah.
0:20:08 > 0:20:12She had power, didn't she? She wasn't intimidated.
0:20:12 > 0:20:14And that, I think, is an Ogilvie trait.
0:20:14 > 0:20:15We don't give up.
0:20:15 > 0:20:19Of course, now your daughter's and up-and-coming politician.
0:20:19 > 0:20:21- What's she going to do?- She's good.
0:20:21 > 0:20:25She's got a highly developed sense of social justice.
0:20:25 > 0:20:27Oh, hi, guys!
0:20:27 > 0:20:30- 'She's very, very astute.' - Hello!
0:20:30 > 0:20:32So she meets my criteria
0:20:32 > 0:20:35of a highly accomplished, talented person.
0:20:35 > 0:20:36I made it a bit more
0:20:36 > 0:20:39that Margaret Thatcher sort of hairspray look.
0:20:39 > 0:20:42Everyone looking, looking, looking and everyone say "Ogilvie"!
0:20:42 > 0:20:44ALL: Ogilvie!
0:20:44 > 0:20:47I had to give a speech. I had to give it...speeding.
0:20:47 > 0:20:50It was a speed speech, to get here on time.
0:20:50 > 0:20:54You are quite literally picking pockets.
0:20:54 > 0:20:55Like Oliver Twist.
0:20:55 > 0:20:58Nicking things from hard-working people.
0:20:58 > 0:21:01My name is Madeleine Ogilvie,
0:21:01 > 0:21:03I'm vice-president of the Tasmanian Labour Party.
0:21:03 > 0:21:06My grandfather was Eric Ogilvie, my great uncle was AG Ogilvie
0:21:06 > 0:21:09and I'm a descendant of George and Caroline,
0:21:09 > 0:21:11the convicts who made good in Tasmania.
0:21:13 > 0:21:15What a huge social experiment.
0:21:15 > 0:21:19"Let's just take a cohort of poor people from the UK
0:21:19 > 0:21:22"and transplant them and see what happens."
0:21:22 > 0:21:24And this is what happens.
0:21:24 > 0:21:26Amazingly difficult times for those people
0:21:26 > 0:21:28who were actually transported, our forebears.
0:21:28 > 0:21:31- And I think it's time we hear... - Tell us about yours.
0:21:31 > 0:21:34Oh, well, Thomas Green was a horse thief.
0:21:34 > 0:21:37Apparently, they didn't hang him because he was literate.
0:21:37 > 0:21:41My family history had the convicts working FOR them.
0:21:41 > 0:21:43- At Fonthill! - LAUGHTER
0:21:43 > 0:21:45A not-very-pretty history! No.
0:21:45 > 0:21:50We did have convict origin and here we are, you know, in Parliament now.
0:21:54 > 0:21:57You can't show that there's a blight on Tasmania
0:21:57 > 0:22:01attributable to the transportees.
0:22:01 > 0:22:03There's no difference walking around Tasmania
0:22:03 > 0:22:07from any other civilised community in the world.
0:22:07 > 0:22:09None at all. Nothing.
0:22:11 > 0:22:13I have great respect for them.
0:22:13 > 0:22:16Human beings battling with life and destiny.
0:22:16 > 0:22:20Life was nasty, short, brutish and difficult.
0:22:20 > 0:22:23Tough times, tough people. So they were survivors.
0:22:25 > 0:22:29Some people, including Charles Dickens,
0:22:29 > 0:22:33thought that transportation might help people.
0:22:33 > 0:22:36It might remove the barriers to social mobility.
0:22:37 > 0:22:42The biggest social experiment of the last 200 years happened here
0:22:42 > 0:22:47and that is the forced migration of an entire generation of people.
0:22:48 > 0:22:53And so our ancestors who came here were gifted an opportunity
0:22:53 > 0:22:56that hasn't happened anywhere else in the world.
0:22:56 > 0:22:59The social mobility happened,
0:22:59 > 0:23:03these things that Charles Dickens spoke of were proved to be correct.
0:23:05 > 0:23:07And we're incredibly proud of that.
0:23:26 > 0:23:32I am Amelia Cleary and I am the great-great-great-granddaughter
0:23:32 > 0:23:34of the convict Caroline Gadbury.
0:23:52 > 0:23:55Caroline's daughter, Sarah, married Arthur Miles.
0:23:56 > 0:23:58And he had a convict for a father
0:23:58 > 0:24:01who had built a really successful boot-making business.
0:24:03 > 0:24:06Together, Sarah and Arthur had six children.
0:24:06 > 0:24:08The grandchildren of Caroline.
0:24:14 > 0:24:16The boot-making business went from strength to strength
0:24:16 > 0:24:19and the Miles family began to prosper.
0:24:22 > 0:24:25By 1901, Sarah and Arthur owned at least nine houses
0:24:25 > 0:24:28in a fancy part of Hobart.
0:24:28 > 0:24:31The family was now living a lifestyle that Caroline,
0:24:31 > 0:24:34Sarah's illiterate convict mother from the East End,
0:24:34 > 0:24:35could never have imagined.
0:24:36 > 0:24:40Sarah and Arthur decided they had enough money to do something
0:24:40 > 0:24:43that would change the course of the family history for ever.
0:24:43 > 0:24:45Even though they were both children of convicts,
0:24:45 > 0:24:49they decided to send their children to a private school.
0:24:49 > 0:24:51CHORAL SINGING
0:24:51 > 0:24:54NEWSREEL VOICEOVER: Australia has no other school like it.
0:24:54 > 0:24:57It's a Quaker school in Hobart run by the Society of Friends.
0:24:57 > 0:24:59The school was established in 1887.
0:25:05 > 0:25:07PIANO MUSIC
0:25:16 > 0:25:19Oh, look, Melinda. Here's a lovely photo.
0:25:19 > 0:25:24- When do you reckon that one's taken? - I'd say that's around 1892.
0:25:24 > 0:25:28- Ah!- So, would the Miles girls have been here at this time?- Yes.
0:25:28 > 0:25:33Have a look here. Elsie Miles was enrolled in 1890.
0:25:33 > 0:25:36Elsie is seventh in, on the second back row.
0:25:36 > 0:25:40And here we have Nellie M Miles
0:25:40 > 0:25:44and she was enrolled in 1889.
0:25:44 > 0:25:49So we've got Mildred and then Eva
0:25:49 > 0:25:51and Harry and George.
0:25:51 > 0:25:54Ah! They were concurrent.
0:25:54 > 0:25:59So that would have been six lots of fees at a very similar time...
0:25:59 > 0:26:02It would have been a fairly lot
0:26:02 > 0:26:04because it wasn't an inexpensive school.
0:26:04 > 0:26:10Do you think, say, Nellie and Elsie would have known
0:26:10 > 0:26:14that their grandmother had been a convict?
0:26:14 > 0:26:17I personally think they'd have had to know,
0:26:17 > 0:26:20but they would have been told to be quiet and not talk about it.
0:26:26 > 0:26:28For a very long time, it was hushed up
0:26:28 > 0:26:31and swept under the carpet, so to speak.
0:26:31 > 0:26:34We were in denial about removing that convict stain,
0:26:34 > 0:26:36whether it would be pulling down buildings,
0:26:36 > 0:26:41getting rid of records and just pretending it didn't happen.
0:26:41 > 0:26:44We do know that in the state archives,
0:26:44 > 0:26:48eminent families have gone and removed pages
0:26:48 > 0:26:50from official documents
0:26:50 > 0:26:54so that the convict stain isn't on their family.
0:27:00 > 0:27:04My name is Elizabeth Young, I'm 79,
0:27:04 > 0:27:08and I'm the great-granddaughter of the convict Caroline Gadbury.
0:27:11 > 0:27:13It would have been very expensive
0:27:13 > 0:27:15to send all of those children to that school.
0:27:17 > 0:27:20It must have been about removing yourself from the ordinary
0:27:20 > 0:27:24where the convicts might have been going to school.
0:27:24 > 0:27:27Being the children of convicts, they had to airbrush that
0:27:27 > 0:27:28out of their lives.
0:27:28 > 0:27:33The more you diluted that convict heritage,
0:27:33 > 0:27:36the better the family thought of themselves.
0:27:37 > 0:27:40We don't like to actually say out loud
0:27:40 > 0:27:44that somebody wanted to be of a better class.
0:27:44 > 0:27:47But I'm quite sure that that's what it was about.
0:27:47 > 0:27:51Why don't Australians like to talk about that kind of thing?
0:27:51 > 0:27:54I think we like to think we are egalitarian.
0:27:56 > 0:27:58Is that true?
0:27:58 > 0:28:00No.
0:28:00 > 0:28:02SHE LAUGHS
0:28:04 > 0:28:06The idea of not having a class system
0:28:06 > 0:28:09is a really big part of our national pride.
0:28:09 > 0:28:12The idea that we do have a class system is almost shameful
0:28:12 > 0:28:15because that's something that I think we like to think
0:28:15 > 0:28:16that we left behind.
0:28:19 > 0:28:23In around 1903, Sarah and Arthur packed up and moved to the mainland.
0:28:25 > 0:28:27They settled in Sydney.
0:28:28 > 0:28:31And soon their daughters Nell and Elsie,
0:28:31 > 0:28:33who were unmarried, bought two boarding schools
0:28:33 > 0:28:35on the outskirts of the city.
0:28:35 > 0:28:37They were called Elmswood and Normanhurst.
0:28:39 > 0:28:43Nell and Elsie took on the roles of headmistress and administrator
0:28:43 > 0:28:46but they didn't always have an easy time at Normanhurst.
0:28:48 > 0:28:52Sydney's new middle class was trying to imitate upper-class England
0:28:52 > 0:28:54and Nell and Elsie didn't make the cut.
0:28:55 > 0:28:56Not only were Nell and Elsie
0:28:56 > 0:28:59the first principals without a university degree,
0:28:59 > 0:29:02they were working-class and they were Australian-born
0:29:02 > 0:29:03instead of English ladies.
0:29:03 > 0:29:06They set about to prove themselves.
0:29:06 > 0:29:08They wore elegant clothes,
0:29:08 > 0:29:10they used pristine manners and English accents.
0:29:12 > 0:29:14The school thrived.
0:29:14 > 0:29:16The two granddaughters of convicts
0:29:16 > 0:29:18had built a successful family business.
0:29:18 > 0:29:21CHORAL SINGING
0:29:27 > 0:29:28Britain was regarded as home.
0:29:28 > 0:29:34And so, people would try and lift themselves up in status
0:29:34 > 0:29:39so the more like the Victorian upper class in Britain they could look,
0:29:39 > 0:29:42the better they felt about themselves.
0:29:44 > 0:29:47The woman who went on to write Mary Poppins, PL Travers,
0:29:47 > 0:29:49was a boarder at Normanhurst.
0:29:50 > 0:29:53The character that she eventually wrote about may well have
0:29:53 > 0:29:55been inspired by her time at the school.
0:30:04 > 0:30:07Close your mouth, please, Michael, we are not a codfish.
0:30:07 > 0:30:10PL Travers did go to Normanhurst
0:30:10 > 0:30:12before my aunts Nell and Elsie were there.
0:30:12 > 0:30:15It was something that the school didn't forget.
0:30:17 > 0:30:20They were determined to make this business work,
0:30:20 > 0:30:23which they did because they were able to leave
0:30:23 > 0:30:26a marvellous portfolio of real estate
0:30:26 > 0:30:30and a nice lot of blue chip shares.
0:30:30 > 0:30:33Nell's will, I think, is really interesting
0:30:33 > 0:30:36because she only left money to women,
0:30:36 > 0:30:38with one exception.
0:30:38 > 0:30:40You feel terribly grateful
0:30:40 > 0:30:44for how hard people have worked in the past
0:30:44 > 0:30:47to give you that leg up the ladder.
0:30:47 > 0:30:52My first memories are of us living at Chester Hill
0:30:52 > 0:30:54where we had two tennis courts.
0:30:54 > 0:30:57We lived very comfortably.
0:30:57 > 0:31:01We had monogrammed cutlery, monogrammed bedspreads.
0:31:01 > 0:31:05When I was five, we moved to Randwick,
0:31:05 > 0:31:09where my mother reasoned that the girls would have a better chance
0:31:09 > 0:31:11of meeting suitable husbands.
0:31:11 > 0:31:13That was Margaret and Rita.
0:31:15 > 0:31:19My name is Gabrielle Lee, Nell and Elsie where my great-aunts
0:31:19 > 0:31:23and I'm Caroline Gadbury's great-great-granddaughter
0:31:23 > 0:31:26and this is my mate, Michael.
0:31:26 > 0:31:28Mate(!)
0:31:28 > 0:31:29THEY LAUGH
0:31:30 > 0:31:32It's thought to be possibly
0:31:32 > 0:31:35the oldest tourist ruin in Australia.
0:31:35 > 0:31:391833 was only 50 years after the colony was founded.
0:31:39 > 0:31:40It may have been built by convicts.
0:31:40 > 0:31:43Did you spend more money on the restoration
0:31:43 > 0:31:45than buying the house?
0:31:45 > 0:31:49- Oh, no.- No, but we went close. - Around 2 million?
0:31:49 > 0:31:522.5, just call it 2.5 and you're about right.
0:31:52 > 0:31:54But look at Caroline and her life.
0:31:54 > 0:31:58You'd find that wherever you put her descendants,
0:31:58 > 0:32:00they'd chase nice things.
0:32:02 > 0:32:05Are you embarrassed by that convict ancestry?
0:32:05 > 0:32:08Not in the slightest. Why would I be embarrassed about it?
0:32:08 > 0:32:09I don't like you positioning it
0:32:09 > 0:32:12as if...should I be ashamed of this criminal class?
0:32:12 > 0:32:18We haven't, you know, been dragged out of some moral degradation.
0:32:18 > 0:32:22We simply are people who are resilient and resourceful
0:32:22 > 0:32:26and that's how she expressed her resilience and resourcefulness.
0:32:26 > 0:32:30These people were the victims of a very unjust class system
0:32:30 > 0:32:33so why would I be ashamed of her?
0:32:33 > 0:32:34At least in Australia,
0:32:34 > 0:32:36it's much easier than it is in England
0:32:36 > 0:32:39to go and make your own life the way you want to do it.
0:32:39 > 0:32:43Do you mean there's no class system here?
0:32:43 > 0:32:45Class system?
0:32:45 > 0:32:47- I'm sorry... - It's different. It's very mobile.
0:32:47 > 0:32:50It's not fixed. It's not like a caste system
0:32:50 > 0:32:52like William the Conqueror more or less set up
0:32:52 > 0:32:54in England when he got going.
0:32:54 > 0:32:57In Australia, you looked after the ordinary guy.
0:32:57 > 0:33:00When they landed just down here at Circular Quay,
0:33:00 > 0:33:02they said, "We are going to take these guys
0:33:02 > 0:33:05"and we are going to mix their sweat with the soil.
0:33:05 > 0:33:07"We're going to make something of these people."
0:33:07 > 0:33:09- They were convicts, they were slaves?- Yeah.
0:33:09 > 0:33:11But the proof was in the pudding.
0:33:11 > 0:33:13Once they produced children,
0:33:13 > 0:33:16they grew up to be strapping, healthy, powerful
0:33:16 > 0:33:17and energetic people.
0:33:17 > 0:33:19They didn't go back
0:33:19 > 0:33:21and the relatives of Caroline Gadbury
0:33:21 > 0:33:24who sadly stayed in England,
0:33:24 > 0:33:27lived shorter lives than the ones who came out here.
0:33:27 > 0:33:30So you're not sorry that she was transported?
0:33:30 > 0:33:31Obviously we're delighted.
0:33:36 > 0:33:39I feel quite personally towards the events
0:33:39 > 0:33:42that my ancestor went through.
0:33:42 > 0:33:44Intelligent people not taught to read and write,
0:33:44 > 0:33:47what do they do with themselves? You know?
0:33:47 > 0:33:53They used their imaginations and that's not always...within the law.
0:33:53 > 0:33:58She's sentenced by an English trial judge,
0:33:58 > 0:34:00probably at the Old Bailey
0:34:00 > 0:34:05and who performed much the same sort of functions that I do
0:34:05 > 0:34:07and then she comes to Australia
0:34:07 > 0:34:10and, um...five and six generations later,
0:34:10 > 0:34:13there's two other judges who are her descendants.
0:34:13 > 0:34:16The other one is Justice Antony Larkins
0:34:16 > 0:34:20who was a judge in the 1970s.
0:34:20 > 0:34:22It's...it's a remarkable story.
0:34:22 > 0:34:26Had she been born in our current century,
0:34:26 > 0:34:30she probably would have risen as far as she wanted to.
0:34:30 > 0:34:34I kind of have a hunch that it would have been something special.
0:34:38 > 0:34:42Caroline Gadbury's great-great-great-grandchildren
0:34:42 > 0:34:44are now doing pretty well..
0:34:44 > 0:34:47When I can drag them away from the beach,
0:34:47 > 0:34:52they are an architect and two law students in their other life.
0:34:52 > 0:34:53My name is Edward Slattery
0:34:53 > 0:34:56and I'm Caroline Gadbury's great-great-great-grandson.
0:35:39 > 0:35:42- I'm Susan.- I'm Bree Nielsen. - I am Karyn Louise Meaker.
0:35:42 > 0:35:46- I'm Sarah Gadbury's great... - Great...- Great-granddaughter.
0:35:53 > 0:35:54By the time she was 16,
0:35:54 > 0:35:57Sarah's behaviour started spiralling out of control
0:35:57 > 0:36:02and she was dragging Caroline, her younger sister, along with her.
0:36:02 > 0:36:05Sarah Eliza, Caroline and the gang where organised
0:36:05 > 0:36:07and very clever.
0:36:07 > 0:36:10They set money aside for lawyers.
0:36:10 > 0:36:12They bribed the police and the took big risks.
0:36:12 > 0:36:15Within a year, Sarah was in Newgate prison.
0:36:15 > 0:36:17She was awaiting trial for theft.
0:36:18 > 0:36:21Whilst there, she actually wrote to her alleged husband
0:36:21 > 0:36:23but he's a bit of a mystery
0:36:23 > 0:36:25because he doesn't appear anywhere else in records.
0:36:27 > 0:36:29June 7, 1837.
0:36:29 > 0:36:31Dear husband, as time is drawing near,
0:36:31 > 0:36:34do not forget to send me all my things,
0:36:34 > 0:36:37for I shall be one of the first who goes to trial.
0:36:37 > 0:36:39I hope you'll come and hear my trial
0:36:39 > 0:36:41and get me as many characters as you can.
0:36:41 > 0:36:44I wish you could have seen the policeman that had me.
0:36:44 > 0:36:47Persuade him not to say anything about me.
0:36:47 > 0:36:50My friend often told me I was too lucky.
0:36:50 > 0:36:53My dear, you mustn't think anything of this false place,
0:36:53 > 0:36:56it makes you think of strange things.
0:36:56 > 0:36:57I might have got away many times
0:36:57 > 0:37:00but I'm now more likely to get seven years than a month.
0:37:00 > 0:37:03I don't think I shall ever return to work in this country any more
0:37:03 > 0:37:06for I think it's all over for me now.
0:37:09 > 0:37:11Sarah was no fool.
0:37:11 > 0:37:14She knew that she was facing transportation to Australia.
0:37:16 > 0:37:20She realised that this was most probably the last time
0:37:20 > 0:37:22that she was going to be there.
0:37:22 > 0:37:25Life in England was finished.
0:37:25 > 0:37:27Would you see your mother to say goodbye?
0:37:29 > 0:37:32There's almost a sense of resignation...
0:37:33 > 0:37:35..that I'm saddened by the situation
0:37:35 > 0:37:38but we all knew it was going to happen eventually.
0:37:41 > 0:37:43It's traumatic to be torn away from your family
0:37:43 > 0:37:45and everything that you know.
0:37:45 > 0:37:49For Caroline, the separation seems to have affected her
0:37:49 > 0:37:51more than it did Sarah Eliza.
0:37:51 > 0:37:54The running away and the drinking, to me,
0:37:54 > 0:37:55that sounds like self-medication.
0:37:55 > 0:37:58Like, you know, I'll drink until I've passed out
0:37:58 > 0:38:01because then I won't have to think about it any more.
0:38:01 > 0:38:04Sarah Eliza actually didn't have the same response.
0:38:05 > 0:38:08I don't think the trauma was any less for her
0:38:08 > 0:38:11but I think she found other ways to cope with it.
0:38:13 > 0:38:15Sarah's fears were justified.
0:38:15 > 0:38:20She was transported to Australia and she never saw her family again.
0:38:27 > 0:38:31She was left to her own fate in England's thief colony.
0:38:40 > 0:38:43Sarah Eliza arrived in New South Wales,
0:38:43 > 0:38:47650 miles away from Van Diemen's land and Caroline.
0:38:48 > 0:38:51Sarah ended up in the Hunter Valley
0:38:51 > 0:38:55and was put to work as a servant in the house of a free settler.
0:38:57 > 0:39:00To get up each morning and not only have to cook,
0:39:00 > 0:39:04clean and care for someone else, let alone themselves,
0:39:04 > 0:39:11Sarah had to have sadness and regret and a sense of loss
0:39:11 > 0:39:13but they did what they had to do.
0:39:13 > 0:39:18The masters were able to flog their servants
0:39:18 > 0:39:22but there's no record of Sarah being in trouble with her master.
0:39:22 > 0:39:28She turned it around and changed her behaviour from what she'd come from.
0:39:28 > 0:39:32But life in New South Wales for former convicts was really hard.
0:39:32 > 0:39:36In Tasmania, people didn't stigmatise convicts
0:39:36 > 0:39:38because almost everyone was one.
0:39:38 > 0:39:41The fact that they weren't discriminated against
0:39:41 > 0:39:43meant that the convicts prospered.
0:39:43 > 0:39:47New South Wales, where Sarah was sent to,
0:39:47 > 0:39:49had a lot more free settlers.
0:39:49 > 0:39:53There was much harsher discrimination.
0:39:53 > 0:39:57And it was a huge insult to be called the child of a convict.
0:40:02 > 0:40:06The children of convicts were labelled currency
0:40:06 > 0:40:08whereas the children of the free settlers
0:40:08 > 0:40:10were thought of as British Sterling.
0:40:12 > 0:40:14It was the start of a class system.
0:40:17 > 0:40:21Three years into her sentence, Sarah married a free man,
0:40:21 > 0:40:23a former convict, William Robbins.
0:40:25 > 0:40:27Sarah and William had nine children.
0:40:28 > 0:40:32I feel sorry for them they've got that family name.
0:40:32 > 0:40:35You'd be called currency and ex-convicts.
0:40:36 > 0:40:39But I guess what doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
0:40:42 > 0:40:46I'm Stanley Paul Bergquist and I'm the great-great-grandson
0:40:46 > 0:40:49of the convict Sarah Eliza Gadbury.
0:40:50 > 0:40:54Sarah Cadbury's daughter, Susan Naomi,
0:40:54 > 0:40:57married my great-grandfather, Henry William.
0:40:57 > 0:40:59Their boy, William Henry,
0:40:59 > 0:41:04he married Pauline Peterson and they had a tribe of kids,
0:41:04 > 0:41:07one of which was my mum, Matilda Esther,
0:41:07 > 0:41:10and she married Dad, William Carl Augustus Bergquist.
0:41:10 > 0:41:14They had 11 kids, three girls, eight boys.
0:41:23 > 0:41:25We call them the famous 11.
0:41:27 > 0:41:29My father's there, that's Frank.
0:41:32 > 0:41:34And I'm one of Frank's children.
0:41:36 > 0:41:41Dad was born in 1929, they lived at what we called Hollywood
0:41:41 > 0:41:43but it was a shantytown.
0:41:43 > 0:41:44It was very poor.
0:41:45 > 0:41:47Dad described what they lived in
0:41:47 > 0:41:50as hessian bags lined with newspaper.
0:41:50 > 0:41:54It was a slum village - like a ghetto,
0:41:54 > 0:41:56where all these people that had no housing
0:41:56 > 0:41:58because of the Great Depression,
0:41:58 > 0:42:01they all gravitated down to where there was somewhere
0:42:01 > 0:42:04they could build some sort of shelter for their families.
0:42:04 > 0:42:06So apparently there was hundreds of these shanties built
0:42:06 > 0:42:08out of whatever material they could find.
0:42:10 > 0:42:13Then they got a government-assisted house.
0:42:13 > 0:42:16- REPORTER:- In the industrial areas, the State Housing Commission
0:42:16 > 0:42:19is building new homes for the lower-paid workers.
0:42:19 > 0:42:23They're all very similar type of people.
0:42:23 > 0:42:26Everyone was in the same position.
0:42:26 > 0:42:28They were poor in possessions
0:42:28 > 0:42:31but they weren't poor in life and happiness.
0:42:37 > 0:42:41By the 1920s, Sarah's grandchildren had moved
0:42:41 > 0:42:46to the coal-mining area of Newcastle and had fallen into labouring jobs.
0:42:46 > 0:42:47- REPORTER:- It's a city of industry.
0:42:47 > 0:42:50Coal and steel are its lifeblood.
0:42:50 > 0:42:56Newcastle was an industrial town in my growing-up years.
0:42:56 > 0:43:00Young men knew that they were going to get an apprenticeship.
0:43:00 > 0:43:02There was never any fear of no work.
0:43:02 > 0:43:06The power of great machines and the labour of men.
0:43:08 > 0:43:10The world has changed. Newcastle has changed.
0:43:10 > 0:43:12All that's gone now.
0:43:15 > 0:43:19Top hospital, no pregnancy, mid hospital and basic hospital.
0:43:19 > 0:43:23And then, what you can then choose is the bundle of extras,
0:43:23 > 0:43:26so it becomes a bit more personal type of cover for you.
0:43:31 > 0:43:32I'm Bree Nielsen,
0:43:32 > 0:43:36I'm Sarah Gadbury's great-great-great granddaughter.
0:43:38 > 0:43:43I work in the Beachcomber resort on the Gold Coast in Surfer's Paradise.
0:43:44 > 0:43:47As some would say, it's living the dream.
0:43:54 > 0:43:57I come from a hard-working family,
0:43:57 > 0:43:59a loving family,
0:43:59 > 0:44:04a family that...even though through the rough times,
0:44:04 > 0:44:09they always look for the positive in it and band together.
0:44:09 > 0:44:13I think when your own children come along,
0:44:13 > 0:44:16it's like, "What's our past, where do we come from?"
0:44:16 > 0:44:20You would always like to say, "Well, you're from
0:44:20 > 0:44:25"this famous person and this line where you achieved this",
0:44:25 > 0:44:28and it's not always easy to say,
0:44:28 > 0:44:32"Well, your family stole a bale of hay and they were sent...
0:44:32 > 0:44:34"banished to an island."
0:44:37 > 0:44:41For me, as a younger girl growing up in New South Wales...
0:44:43 > 0:44:47..there was that stigma attached to "Where did you come from?"
0:44:48 > 0:44:52You know, or you'd be called a convict, or ex-convict.
0:44:54 > 0:44:56There's always going to be that.
0:44:56 > 0:45:00- Sorry, you mean in your lifetime? - In my lifetime.
0:45:00 > 0:45:04- You've experienced that?- Yes. - You're joking?- No.
0:45:04 > 0:45:06I'm surprised that you're surprised.
0:45:07 > 0:45:11That you don't get asked, "Where do you come from?
0:45:11 > 0:45:14"What is your background? What is your line of family?"
0:45:14 > 0:45:19I still believe myself that it goes on today.
0:45:23 > 0:45:27I'm Karen Narelle Bergquist and I'm the great-great-great-granddaughter
0:45:27 > 0:45:29of the convict Sarah Gadbury.
0:45:31 > 0:45:35To think about where our family's come in 200 years,
0:45:35 > 0:45:37from just one girl,
0:45:37 > 0:45:39I think she'd be amazed.
0:45:39 > 0:45:42So you're not ashamed of being descended from a convict?
0:45:42 > 0:45:45Oh, God, no. Gosh, no. No way.
0:45:45 > 0:45:47Like I said that to Willem -
0:45:47 > 0:45:48when your teacher asks you in history,
0:45:48 > 0:45:51"Have you got any convict relatives?" you can go,
0:45:51 > 0:45:53"Yeah, yeah, I do, actually. Yeah! Yeah!"
0:45:54 > 0:45:57Yeah! Yes, we still have some today, there you go!
0:45:57 > 0:45:59LAUGHTER
0:46:08 > 0:46:12When Sarah came to Australia, something changed in her.
0:46:15 > 0:46:19Well, all right - you're a difficult teenager,
0:46:19 > 0:46:22but when you've got here, you've sorted yourself out.
0:46:25 > 0:46:28And you got on with your life, you had to,
0:46:28 > 0:46:31because otherwise your children wouldn't have stayed
0:46:31 > 0:46:32in the same area with you,
0:46:32 > 0:46:35so you must have done all right.
0:46:37 > 0:46:42Her personality has flowed through the family to make us who we are.
0:46:45 > 0:46:48We haven't journeyed far at all.
0:47:02 > 0:47:05I don't know what it is, but we stay close.
0:47:07 > 0:47:11There's something there that says, "We're good people."
0:47:11 > 0:47:13And that's got to come from somewhere,
0:47:13 > 0:47:16so Sarah must have been a good person,
0:47:16 > 0:47:18somewhere along the line.
0:47:19 > 0:47:24I'm comforted to know that this woman lived into her 80s.
0:47:25 > 0:47:29And...her strength
0:47:29 > 0:47:31is running through my veins.
0:47:31 > 0:47:32My blood.
0:47:33 > 0:47:38In 1906, at the age of 86,
0:47:38 > 0:47:42Sarah passed away while living in the home of her daughter Susan,
0:47:42 > 0:47:44who was my great-great-grandmother.
0:47:47 > 0:47:51Sarah had come a long way from her roots in the East End of London
0:47:51 > 0:47:53and together with William...
0:47:55 > 0:47:57..they created my family.
0:48:14 > 0:48:17I'm sure Joe's filled you in on what we're going to be doing this afternoon.
0:48:17 > 0:48:20What we basically want to do is get a nice family group photo
0:48:20 > 0:48:23of all of you together in front of Sydney's beautiful harbour.
0:48:30 > 0:48:32You know this path connects...
0:48:32 > 0:48:36I was surprised when we met the family in Sydney
0:48:36 > 0:48:41and Caroline's descendants, and they speak...not like we speak.
0:48:41 > 0:48:44We're a bit more, I don't know...
0:48:44 > 0:48:46Laid-back, slang, ocker...
0:48:46 > 0:48:49I guess in Australia, they call it "a bit raw".
0:48:49 > 0:48:52We're all Caroline's descendants through Harold...
0:48:52 > 0:48:56But they were...they were quite well-spoken and quite posh,
0:48:56 > 0:48:58I think, is the word my uncle used.
0:48:58 > 0:49:00The posh side of the family!
0:49:00 > 0:49:01Hello!
0:49:01 > 0:49:03Who are you...?
0:49:03 > 0:49:04Most of these are all...
0:49:04 > 0:49:06Caroline Gadbury.
0:49:06 > 0:49:08And you're...?
0:49:08 > 0:49:11INDISTINCT
0:49:11 > 0:49:13So Caroline?
0:49:13 > 0:49:14And you must be Amelia's mum.
0:49:14 > 0:49:17I didn't realise there was such a uniformity
0:49:17 > 0:49:18in my little part of the family
0:49:18 > 0:49:21until you meet another branch who...yeah,
0:49:21 > 0:49:23you do realise that they're different.
0:49:25 > 0:49:28It's funny to think that so long ago,
0:49:28 > 0:49:29that was one family unit
0:49:29 > 0:49:33and now, there's two such different families.
0:49:35 > 0:49:38I worked out that some of my forebears are actually
0:49:38 > 0:49:42buried in the same cemetery as your forebears.
0:49:42 > 0:49:46You sort of wonder the steps that they've got to be where
0:49:46 > 0:49:48they are, what makes you...
0:49:48 > 0:49:52How did you get to that step from Caroline,
0:49:52 > 0:49:54who was more mischievous than Sarah?
0:49:54 > 0:49:58Who do you want out of the shot?! Speak up now!
0:49:58 > 0:50:01What does it matter? We're all the same background.
0:50:01 > 0:50:05Those people we met on Monday from Newcastle and...
0:50:05 > 0:50:06They're different people,
0:50:06 > 0:50:08they're working-class people, aren't they?
0:50:08 > 0:50:11- Yes. - Yes, they are, but let me tell you,
0:50:11 > 0:50:15it's rude in Australian society to talk class.
0:50:15 > 0:50:17- OK?- Why?- It's offensive.
0:50:18 > 0:50:21- Why?- It just is, that's all.
0:50:21 > 0:50:24I can't tell you why it's offensive, but it is offensive.
0:50:26 > 0:50:27We don't talk about it!
0:50:29 > 0:50:30One, two, three, go!
0:50:30 > 0:50:31ALL: Gadbury!
0:50:31 > 0:50:33Love it!
0:50:33 > 0:50:35Yeah, that's nice, that's really good.
0:50:35 > 0:50:39Today, we still have all these ideas about having a fair go,
0:50:39 > 0:50:42and being a land of opportunity and, you know, that
0:50:42 > 0:50:45when you work hard, you will get the reward for that work.
0:50:45 > 0:50:48And that's not always true any more.
0:50:48 > 0:50:49Nice to meet you!
0:50:49 > 0:50:52I almost feel like we need to make a new national identity which is
0:50:52 > 0:50:55really about giving people a fair go, but that's not
0:50:55 > 0:50:57just by saying we don't have a class system,
0:50:57 > 0:50:59it's by recognising that we do
0:50:59 > 0:51:02and then giving people a hand when they need it.
0:51:11 > 0:51:15So you remember there was a third sister in the gang called Mary Ann.
0:51:15 > 0:51:19She got caught in the haberdashery shop,
0:51:19 > 0:51:21stuffing material up her bloomers.
0:51:21 > 0:51:25That's how come she got sent to the Old Bailey.
0:51:25 > 0:51:28She got six months for doing that.
0:51:28 > 0:51:30But prison straightened her out
0:51:30 > 0:51:33and after that, she went straight,
0:51:33 > 0:51:36she got married and settled down.
0:51:36 > 0:51:39She never ever got another conviction
0:51:39 > 0:51:41and she was never transported.
0:51:42 > 0:51:45Her daughter stayed in east London,
0:51:45 > 0:51:48so did her kids, so did their kids.
0:51:48 > 0:51:49We all stayed.
0:51:49 > 0:51:51Loved our families and kept on
0:51:51 > 0:51:53the right side of the law.
0:51:55 > 0:51:57In fact, I grew up less than a mile
0:51:57 > 0:51:59from Shoreditch,
0:51:59 > 0:52:01where the Gadbury girls lived.
0:52:01 > 0:52:03# Come on, let's twist again
0:52:03 > 0:52:07# Like we did last summer
0:52:07 > 0:52:09# Yeah, let's twist again
0:52:09 > 0:52:13# Like we did last year
0:52:13 > 0:52:15# Do you remember when
0:52:15 > 0:52:18# Things were really hummin'
0:52:18 > 0:52:21# Yeah, let's twist again
0:52:21 > 0:52:24# Twisting time is here... #
0:52:24 > 0:52:27A lot of girls used to love a Jack the Lad, a lairy boy,
0:52:27 > 0:52:29and Pat, I know why Pat went with me -
0:52:29 > 0:52:31because I had a bad name.
0:52:33 > 0:52:35You came away from that life.
0:52:35 > 0:52:38You came away from all that life completely.
0:52:38 > 0:52:39And that was it.
0:52:39 > 0:52:41A bit like, maybe Mary Ann was like,
0:52:41 > 0:52:44"Hang on, I've got responsibilities now.
0:52:44 > 0:52:48"This is my responsibility, not that", and it changed you.
0:52:48 > 0:52:51It is though, isn't it? No, it was. It is though, isn't it? Eh?
0:52:51 > 0:52:55He could have gone down a different road, couldn't he?
0:52:55 > 0:52:57- He could have, yeah. - A lot different road.
0:52:57 > 0:53:00If I hadn't have pulled them reins in.
0:53:00 > 0:53:03She done more than what the police could have ever had.
0:53:03 > 0:53:05LAUGHTER
0:53:05 > 0:53:07How did you manage that?
0:53:07 > 0:53:09Fear!
0:53:09 > 0:53:12He was more scared of her than the police!
0:53:14 > 0:53:16No, it's just, you know,
0:53:16 > 0:53:20I didn't want to have a husband as a criminal.
0:53:20 > 0:53:23I've got three kids, I brought 'em up in east London,
0:53:23 > 0:53:25not one of my kids has been in trouble with the police,
0:53:25 > 0:53:26not one of them.
0:53:26 > 0:53:28I've got all my grandchildren,
0:53:28 > 0:53:30never been in trouble with the police.
0:53:30 > 0:53:33I'm proud of that, being brought up in the East End.
0:53:33 > 0:53:35All around 'em, their mates getting nicked,
0:53:35 > 0:53:37this one getting nicked -
0:53:37 > 0:53:39not one of them, ever, ever ended up in court.
0:53:39 > 0:53:43Silly as it sounds, just that little thing,
0:53:43 > 0:53:47through one person going straight and altering her life,
0:53:47 > 0:53:49made my life.
0:53:49 > 0:53:53Because I've got my wife and I've got my family, for her,
0:53:53 > 0:53:55not going over there.
0:53:55 > 0:53:59Robert, you couldn't put your arm around your loved one...?!
0:53:59 > 0:54:01You're asking too much, this close!
0:54:01 > 0:54:04Are you happy with the family you've got?
0:54:04 > 0:54:07I'm over the moon with it. I'm over the moon with it.
0:54:07 > 0:54:10I've got everything to thank her for, what I've got.
0:54:10 > 0:54:11Not a lot, but what I've got.
0:54:13 > 0:54:16Can you do it again for me, just for luck, to make sure?
0:54:16 > 0:54:19Can I tighten me belt up first? Me trousers are falling down!
0:54:21 > 0:54:25- ..'Sake!- Language, you're wired up, George!- I know.
0:54:25 > 0:54:29- What's happening, George? - Me strides are fallin'!
0:54:34 > 0:54:38I suppose you're the family that didn't get transported.
0:54:38 > 0:54:39- Yes.- Oh, yeah.
0:54:39 > 0:54:44- What do you think about that? - Lucky!
0:54:46 > 0:54:49If it hadn't been for Mary Ann, none of us would have been here.
0:54:49 > 0:54:52Wouldn't have had all our family and that.
0:54:52 > 0:54:54We wouldn't have had these two.
0:54:58 > 0:55:01- You don't like kangaroos, do you? - I don't like it out there,
0:55:01 > 0:55:05I'd never go there visiting, too many deadly spiders and snakes.
0:55:05 > 0:55:07Nah. Not for me.
0:55:07 > 0:55:09I like my feet on the ground here.
0:55:09 > 0:55:11ALL: Gadbury!
0:55:18 > 0:55:20And whatever happened to that man
0:55:20 > 0:55:25that interviewed Caroline in that prison 200 years ago?
0:55:26 > 0:55:31The man in Caroline's cell that day was William Miles.
0:55:33 > 0:55:37Miles wanted to see a national police force
0:55:37 > 0:55:40and the surveillance of criminals.
0:55:41 > 0:55:46In the end, he became a pain in the backside to the government,
0:55:46 > 0:55:51so they pushed him off to Sydney in Australia to be Chief of Police.
0:55:57 > 0:56:00So Miles followed the scores of young men and women
0:56:00 > 0:56:03who he'd seen transported to the other side of the world.
0:56:03 > 0:56:08But in 1847, he lost his job for being drunk on duty.
0:56:09 > 0:56:11Miles died in 1851.
0:56:13 > 0:56:16Today, his grave is buried under a park in a Sydney suburb.
0:56:19 > 0:56:20Miles had no children
0:56:20 > 0:56:23and so no descendants to tell you his story.
0:56:26 > 0:56:29Miles referred to a criminal class.
0:56:29 > 0:56:30If that were the case,
0:56:30 > 0:56:33it's inexplicable that Tasmania has prospered
0:56:33 > 0:56:35and done as well as it has.
0:56:35 > 0:56:39The origins of this community of persons who ran foul of the law
0:56:39 > 0:56:44in England has not prevented their descendants from reaching
0:56:44 > 0:56:49the highest levels in every field of endeavour on planet Earth.
0:56:51 > 0:56:54If that's my badge of honour as a descendant of convicts,
0:56:54 > 0:56:56I'm quite proud of it.
0:57:12 > 0:57:14The descendants of the three Gadbury sisters
0:57:14 > 0:57:17have been on an incredible journey through history.
0:57:24 > 0:57:27But if you think about everything that's happened to us
0:57:27 > 0:57:29since Sarah and Caroline were transported
0:57:29 > 0:57:31to the other side of the world,
0:57:31 > 0:57:34only a fool would try and predict what will happen next.
0:57:56 > 0:57:59# Come on, let's twist again
0:57:59 > 0:58:02# Like we did last summer
0:58:02 > 0:58:05# Yeah, let's twist again
0:58:05 > 0:58:08# Like we did last year
0:58:08 > 0:58:11# Do you remember when
0:58:11 > 0:58:14# Things were really hummin'
0:58:14 > 0:58:17# Yeah, let's twist again
0:58:17 > 0:58:20# Like we did last year
0:58:20 > 0:58:22# Let's twist again
0:58:22 > 0:58:25# Twisting time is here
0:58:25 > 0:58:27# Bop, bop! #