The Nelsons and Margaret Marchant

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0:00:02 > 0:00:041903. Working-class Britain.

0:00:08 > 0:00:10A labyrinth of destitution.

0:00:11 > 0:00:13Street crime.

0:00:13 > 0:00:15Gang warfare.

0:00:15 > 0:00:18Drink addiction and welfare dependency.

0:00:20 > 0:00:22Into this dark continent

0:00:23 > 0:00:27came an army of upper-class do-gooders

0:00:27 > 0:00:30to study and help the "problem families" they found.

0:00:31 > 0:00:36And on the expeditions into the slums, these missionaries came

0:00:36 > 0:00:41face-to-face with Britain's out-cast and unrecorded.

0:00:44 > 0:00:48We knew very little about the history of our family.

0:00:48 > 0:00:51She's sort of lower class. Not worth anything.

0:00:51 > 0:00:53The working class? "Yeah, get over there.

0:00:53 > 0:00:55"They're only crap."

0:00:55 > 0:00:59Now, using the explorers' written accounts of their meetings

0:00:59 > 0:01:01with the underclass...

0:01:02 > 0:01:04..we've traced their descendants

0:01:04 > 0:01:07all the way down to the present day

0:01:07 > 0:01:12to find out what happened to the families that history forgot.

0:01:12 > 0:01:16To think about where our family's come in 200 years,

0:01:16 > 0:01:19from just one girl, I think she'd be amazed.

0:01:19 > 0:01:23- We don't talk about it. - SHE LAUGHS

0:01:23 > 0:01:26A story told by the descendants themselves.

0:01:29 > 0:01:32We are all prisoners of our family histories.

0:01:32 > 0:01:36Don't forget where you've come from. Don't forget.

0:01:36 > 0:01:40Tonight, the story of a long-term benefit dependent

0:01:41 > 0:01:44condemned by the authorities as an unfit mother...

0:01:45 > 0:01:49She's pregnant and is not married. A fallen woman.

0:01:49 > 0:01:53..and the lady visitor who stepped in to rescue her kids.

0:01:54 > 0:01:56She was very concerned about pauperism,

0:01:56 > 0:01:59what they now call benefit dependency.

0:01:59 > 0:02:03People do silly things, don't they, you know? When they're desperate.

0:02:15 > 0:02:18I mean, Julie chose the house

0:02:18 > 0:02:21for the size of the rooms, really.

0:02:21 > 0:02:25But I chose it because of the size of the garden,

0:02:25 > 0:02:30because I knew that it had good potential for a fish pond and whatever suits me,

0:02:30 > 0:02:33you know, so that's what the plan was, to build a pond.

0:02:33 > 0:02:37That's what I did, you know, so... I enjoy the outside space, you know,

0:02:37 > 0:02:39that's my bit of territory.

0:02:39 > 0:02:41My name's Roy Nelson

0:02:41 > 0:02:46I'm 68 years of age and Susan Nelson is my grandmother.

0:02:56 > 0:03:00The story begins in Victorian London in the slums of Deptford,

0:03:02 > 0:03:07particularly in the area where Susan Nelson lived, Watergate Street,

0:03:08 > 0:03:11where the cobblestones run down to the River Thames.

0:03:14 > 0:03:16It was poverty-stricken.

0:03:16 > 0:03:19The Humanitarian League at that time called it

0:03:19 > 0:03:21"one of the dark places of the world".

0:03:24 > 0:03:28A dark and dismal place where you wouldn't want to go.

0:03:30 > 0:03:35At the turn of the century, Susan lost her soldier husband, John,

0:03:35 > 0:03:39and she was left in the slums, a war widow with three young children.

0:03:42 > 0:03:46In 1903, Susan wrote her first begging letter.

0:03:47 > 0:03:50"Dear Sir, I am very sorry to be compelled to

0:03:50 > 0:03:53"appeal to you for a little assistance.

0:03:53 > 0:03:58"I tried the best way I could until I have become destitute

0:03:58 > 0:04:01"and the only relief I can get from the parish is to

0:04:01 > 0:04:05"go into the workhouse with my three little children.

0:04:05 > 0:04:09"If you could assist me in any way, I should very much oblige to you.

0:04:09 > 0:04:11"Yours faithfully, Mrs S Nelson."

0:04:12 > 0:04:15Susan's begging letters ended up with

0:04:15 > 0:04:19the Charity Organisation Society, known as the COS.

0:04:20 > 0:04:24This was an early welfare fund, overseeing benefits

0:04:24 > 0:04:26and charitable giving to the poor.

0:04:28 > 0:04:32Susan was awarded benefits and her case was assigned

0:04:32 > 0:04:35to a well-to-do woman called Margaret Marchant.

0:04:35 > 0:04:39Their encounter would change the Nelson fortune forever.

0:04:42 > 0:04:47Margaret Marchant was one of five children, of Thomas Marchant, a solicitor.

0:04:47 > 0:04:48Very well-to-do.

0:04:49 > 0:04:51The Victorian upper class.

0:04:54 > 0:04:59My name is Alexandra Barcus and Margaret Marchant was my great-great aunt.

0:05:04 > 0:05:08In 1907, Margaret becomes the right-honourable secretary

0:05:08 > 0:05:11of the Deptford area Charitable Organisation Society

0:05:13 > 0:05:17and finds that she's got to make some very, very hard decisions.

0:05:17 > 0:05:22She's really got to choose who will get a limited amount of money,

0:05:22 > 0:05:25who will have access to it, and who won't.

0:05:26 > 0:05:31So Margaret felt it was necessary to investigate things a little bit further.

0:05:34 > 0:05:36To make the kinds of determinations required

0:05:36 > 0:05:41going into the homes of people and actually seeing how they lived.

0:05:41 > 0:05:44Any suggestion that there might be drunkenness,

0:05:44 > 0:05:46some sort of immorality,

0:05:46 > 0:05:49or people who weren't trying to help themselves in any way

0:05:49 > 0:05:53would mean that they were not eligible for these benefits from the COS.

0:05:53 > 0:05:56They were very concerned about the idea of what they called

0:05:56 > 0:06:01"pauperism", which we now call benefit dependency.

0:06:01 > 0:06:04That people would become dependent on the funds given to them

0:06:04 > 0:06:08and would not encourage them to seek work or to lead better lives.

0:06:12 > 0:06:15Margaret's told by some of her volunteers that it appears

0:06:15 > 0:06:20that Susan is living out of wedlock with the brother of her husband.

0:06:22 > 0:06:25You're not married at all, are you?

0:06:25 > 0:06:28- No.- Have you tried to get work?

0:06:28 > 0:06:30I can't get work.

0:06:30 > 0:06:31I'm going to have a baby.

0:06:33 > 0:06:35Not only that, she's pregnant.

0:06:39 > 0:06:43For Margaret, to have Susan Nelson living "immorally"

0:06:43 > 0:06:48on the benefits handed to her by the COS was totally unacceptable.

0:06:49 > 0:06:53Margaret writes of Susan, that she is of "low character"

0:06:53 > 0:06:55and "very troublesome".

0:06:55 > 0:07:00And so in 1907, to protect Susan's three children by her

0:07:00 > 0:07:03late husband, she took a drastic step.

0:07:05 > 0:07:10The most significant decision that Margaret took was to remove the

0:07:10 > 0:07:14three children from Susan's home and distribute them amongst relatives.

0:07:21 > 0:07:24The money that Susan had been granted went to the relatives

0:07:24 > 0:07:26to take care of the children.

0:07:28 > 0:07:31It's heartbreaking, it's heart-wrenching to think that

0:07:31 > 0:07:36a child, or children, would be taken away from their mother

0:07:36 > 0:07:41due to the fact that she was carrying an illegitimate child.

0:07:44 > 0:07:49Why do you think she felt that she had the right to do that?

0:07:49 > 0:07:54If she didn't do it, someone else would have done it and probably less well,

0:07:54 > 0:07:59so perhaps not a real right, but still delivering some hope,

0:07:59 > 0:08:04giving them something they might actually be able to use to get ahead.

0:08:04 > 0:08:06It would be the only way they could.

0:08:08 > 0:08:13Margaret's decision to take Susan's children away from her would

0:08:13 > 0:08:16change the course of history for the Nelson family.

0:08:17 > 0:08:22But the one who was going to be most deeply affected was young Charlotte,

0:08:22 > 0:08:25the first of the Nelsons to leave the slums behind.

0:08:34 > 0:08:36I'm Suzanne Moss.

0:08:37 > 0:08:40Charlotte was my grandmother.

0:08:45 > 0:08:47Susan Nelson was my great-grandmother.

0:08:49 > 0:08:52Some in the family say that Charlotte was sold

0:08:52 > 0:08:57for a bottle of gin, others that she was left on the doorstep by gypsies.

0:08:57 > 0:09:02But in fact, Miss Marchant organised for Charlotte to be taken

0:09:02 > 0:09:06care of by a distant relative called Mrs Murray.

0:09:06 > 0:09:09Mrs Murray was given three shillings a week.

0:09:10 > 0:09:16She stayed with Miss Murray for about 14-odd years,

0:09:16 > 0:09:18until she was 16.

0:09:19 > 0:09:21My name is Victor Avey.

0:09:21 > 0:09:27"Vic" to everybody, and I am the grandson of Sue Nelson.

0:09:27 > 0:09:29My mother was Charlotte Nelson.

0:09:31 > 0:09:36There's an ongoing relationship between Charlotte and Margaret.

0:09:36 > 0:09:40For seven years, they were corresponding with one another.

0:09:40 > 0:09:44Margaret's clearly very proud of the way in which Charlotte conducts herself.

0:09:46 > 0:09:48This is the youngest of the Nelson family.

0:09:48 > 0:09:51"Some 20 years ago, we received a grant for the widow

0:09:51 > 0:09:55"and children and managed to get some of it banked for each child.

0:09:57 > 0:09:59"I think the money Charlotte has spent on clothes

0:09:59 > 0:10:02"and boots from time to time have been good for her health.

0:10:03 > 0:10:06"She's turned out better than I expected,

0:10:06 > 0:10:08"possibly because she lived away from home."

0:10:09 > 0:10:13"I should wish she would now get married to a decent man.

0:10:13 > 0:10:14"Yours, Margaret Marchant."

0:10:16 > 0:10:17A little while later,

0:10:17 > 0:10:22Charlotte starts to keep company with a young man called Arthur Avey.

0:10:23 > 0:10:29Sometime in 1925, they got married.

0:10:29 > 0:10:32Three days after, my eldest sister was born!

0:10:32 > 0:10:36- LAUGHING:- So they... Yes, they got on very well.

0:10:38 > 0:10:42And then there was five more after that, I was one of them.

0:10:45 > 0:10:48She did all sorts of work, really.

0:10:48 > 0:10:52She worked in factories and anything she could find.

0:10:52 > 0:10:56And that was my mum to a T.

0:10:56 > 0:11:00Because she would never be without money.

0:11:00 > 0:11:03She'd do anything, you know what I mean?

0:11:03 > 0:11:05- She was only a little titch! - HE LAUGHS

0:11:05 > 0:11:085'2" and a quarter! I loved her.

0:11:10 > 0:11:13She really was... She was absolutely gorgeous.

0:11:14 > 0:11:15Yeah.

0:11:20 > 0:11:23Bringing up Victor and his sisters in Deptford,

0:11:23 > 0:11:26Charlotte relied on occasional hand-outs,

0:11:26 > 0:11:29casual work and little bits of welfare payments.

0:11:32 > 0:11:35Now the authorities were offering her the chance to get

0:11:35 > 0:11:36out of the slums.

0:11:46 > 0:11:48'I am Colin Avey.

0:11:48 > 0:11:50'I am Charlotte's grandson.'

0:11:52 > 0:11:57In 1938, the family were rehoused in Mottingham, in Kent,

0:11:57 > 0:12:01under the Greater London Council scheme in council housing.

0:12:05 > 0:12:08Charlotte was the first Nelson to leave Deptford,

0:12:08 > 0:12:12and she would be forever known as the posh aunt who got out.

0:12:20 > 0:12:24It seems that being taken away from her mum did help Charlotte

0:12:24 > 0:12:26to get on.

0:12:26 > 0:12:30So Margaret Marchant and the COS had made the difference.

0:12:32 > 0:12:34But being cut off from your mum

0:12:34 > 0:12:38and family at such a young age must have scarred her.

0:12:40 > 0:12:44Did Charlotte, your mother, did she ever speak of her own mother?

0:12:46 > 0:12:50No, not really. It's almost as though it had been blotted out.

0:12:51 > 0:12:55You know, it's in the past and I don't want to know it, don't want to remind it.

0:12:57 > 0:12:59I think she just blanked it completely.

0:13:03 > 0:13:07I can remember walking along Deptford Broadway

0:13:07 > 0:13:12and somebody pointed over to a lady and said,

0:13:12 > 0:13:14"That's your nan" and I said, "Oh."

0:13:16 > 0:13:17And left it at that.

0:13:18 > 0:13:21The way that my mother had blanked everything out,

0:13:21 > 0:13:25I thought Susan couldn't have been a very nice person.

0:13:25 > 0:13:28I just wasn't interested.

0:13:28 > 0:13:32I've taken after my mother, you know, don't want to hear any more.

0:13:32 > 0:13:33No, it's gone.

0:13:40 > 0:13:43In my 20s, I started on the railway.

0:13:43 > 0:13:46And I was on there for 25 years.

0:13:48 > 0:13:50You get it in your blood, I think.

0:13:50 > 0:13:53It was a pleasure to go to work in the morning.

0:13:53 > 0:13:54Hello! Yeah...

0:13:54 > 0:13:56I met my first wife in the dancehall.

0:13:58 > 0:14:01One of my colleagues said,

0:14:01 > 0:14:04"That girl over there likes you." I said, "Oh, does she?"

0:14:05 > 0:14:10Got married on the 15th September, 1962.

0:14:12 > 0:14:1519 years after we got married,

0:14:15 > 0:14:18she started playing away from home.

0:14:19 > 0:14:22So, she told me, I said, "Right that's it. I'm going".

0:14:29 > 0:14:33He was there in the morning and when I came home from school, he wasn't there any more,

0:14:33 > 0:14:37so that was, you know, that was a bit hard to take.

0:14:38 > 0:14:44It's over 30 years since I last saw him.

0:14:44 > 0:14:48Our daughter Ellie has frequently asked about him...

0:14:49 > 0:14:53..um, just to find out what kind of person he is.

0:14:53 > 0:14:55I did find out where he was living

0:14:55 > 0:15:01but I never had the guts to try and make contact with him.

0:15:02 > 0:15:07- Colin needed a dad, Suzanne needed a dad...- Mmm.

0:15:07 > 0:15:11- Do you think that was fair to them?- Well...

0:15:11 > 0:15:16Quite honestly, I can't see how I could've done anything else.

0:15:16 > 0:15:20Although I was separated from my children...

0:15:20 > 0:15:23But that was my doing, to stop my second marriage

0:15:23 > 0:15:26getting slaughtered by their mother,

0:15:27 > 0:15:28which would have happened.

0:15:33 > 0:15:37Because of my dad I had an interest in railways from an early age.

0:15:37 > 0:15:41I joined Network Rail in 2003 and I've worked

0:15:41 > 0:15:45for various signal boxes since then and I'm currently at London Bridge.

0:15:51 > 0:15:53There's a little blue man there...

0:15:54 > 0:15:57That's me, but on a...

0:15:57 > 0:16:00I did start on a box that size, so...

0:16:00 > 0:16:02Well, perhaps a bit bigger, but, yes.

0:16:06 > 0:16:08You can switch off from the outside world,

0:16:08 > 0:16:10you don't have to worry about anything else.

0:16:10 > 0:16:13It's your world. Whatever happens on your world is fine.

0:16:18 > 0:16:20How long has it been?

0:16:20 > 0:16:23Must be about 30 years. Must be.

0:16:25 > 0:16:27Have you missed them in that time?

0:16:27 > 0:16:28Oh, yeah.

0:16:28 > 0:16:31Do you think there's a similarity that Charlotte

0:16:31 > 0:16:33was estranged from Susan

0:16:33 > 0:16:36and then you're estranged from your children?

0:16:36 > 0:16:40Yes, there is parallel there, isn't there? Yeah.

0:16:40 > 0:16:44You know, it's just one of those things that you have to sort of

0:16:44 > 0:16:47push into the back of your mind and every now and again

0:16:47 > 0:16:49it rears its ugly head.

0:16:51 > 0:16:57Mum told me she married Dad to get out of a situation

0:16:57 > 0:16:59where she was unhappy at home.

0:17:00 > 0:17:05But a lot of women did that in the '50s and I'm sure before that.

0:17:06 > 0:17:12It really makes me realise how lucky I am to be able to have met

0:17:12 > 0:17:16somebody that I truly love, that I want to be with.

0:17:16 > 0:17:20Not to have to marry because that was my way out

0:17:20 > 0:17:22of an unhappy situation.

0:17:22 > 0:17:27To be able to go on and study what I wanted to do...

0:17:27 > 0:17:30I was just wondering if you could tell me how many patients I've got today?

0:17:30 > 0:17:33PHONE: Yes, you've got eight patients...

0:17:33 > 0:17:36To have my own business

0:17:36 > 0:17:38and just be happy.

0:17:38 > 0:17:45I feel what I've achieved is on a similar level to what Charlotte achieved.

0:17:46 > 0:17:50You know, she's progressed, she's moved forward.

0:17:57 > 0:18:00I'd love a reunion, to be able to, um...

0:18:00 > 0:18:04To bring closure to things that have happened in the past.

0:18:06 > 0:18:11At the end of the day, every man needs his dad, and there's been

0:18:11 > 0:18:16a lot of father-son relationship and chats that have been missing.

0:18:20 > 0:18:22All right, how's that?

0:18:25 > 0:18:29I'm not sure what I expect from the reunion.

0:18:31 > 0:18:34I'm intrigued, I'm intrigued.

0:18:34 > 0:18:37And maybe he'll be able to answer a few questions.

0:18:40 > 0:18:41What have you got there, then?

0:18:41 > 0:18:45Two cards. One for Colin and one for Suzanne.

0:18:45 > 0:18:50I mean, that one's like a little belated birthday card.

0:18:50 > 0:18:52So you can still remember their birthdays?

0:18:52 > 0:18:53Oh, yeah!

0:18:53 > 0:18:56Yes, 26th of January and 28th of February.

0:18:59 > 0:19:02I think it would be good for Ellie, it would be good for him

0:19:02 > 0:19:08and it would be good for me to be able to complete that circle.

0:19:08 > 0:19:13Now we've got the opportunity to finally put to bed

0:19:15 > 0:19:19the emotional side of the family's history.

0:19:20 > 0:19:23I'd like to tell him about my career, because I've basically

0:19:23 > 0:19:26been following him around, I've been stalking him.

0:19:26 > 0:19:28Yeah, a lot of emotions.

0:19:34 > 0:19:37Oh, my goodness!

0:19:41 > 0:19:44- Hello.- Colin...- Hello. - THEY LAUGH

0:19:44 > 0:19:45Long time, no see!

0:19:45 > 0:19:47- A VERY long time.- Where've you been hiding?

0:19:47 > 0:19:49Oh, all over the place!

0:19:49 > 0:19:51Hello, Dad.

0:19:53 > 0:19:54Oh...

0:19:54 > 0:19:57- All right?- Yeah...

0:19:57 > 0:19:59SHE SOBS

0:20:00 > 0:20:03- You don't have to cry, you know. - SHE LAUGHS

0:20:03 > 0:20:05- I won't grow if you keep watering... - I've got a card for you

0:20:05 > 0:20:09- You've shrunk!- Me?- Thank you.

0:20:09 > 0:20:11One for you. They're only cards. That's all.

0:20:11 > 0:20:12And I bought that for you.

0:20:12 > 0:20:14LAUGHTER

0:20:14 > 0:20:17- This is Ellie...- Yes. - ..your granddaughter.

0:20:17 > 0:20:18Hello.

0:20:19 > 0:20:23- Grandad you didn't know!- No!

0:20:25 > 0:20:27It's a bit strange.

0:20:27 > 0:20:30Very strange. I've always been strange.

0:20:30 > 0:20:34LAUGHTER

0:20:34 > 0:20:37Had you wanted to see us before?

0:20:37 > 0:20:41- I've always thought about the pair of you.- Mmm.- Yeah.

0:20:41 > 0:20:44Wondering what you were doing, what you were up to.

0:20:45 > 0:20:48I think we are doing OK, don't you?

0:20:48 > 0:20:51- I think so. I've managed to get a job with Network Rail. - Oh, did you?

0:20:51 > 0:20:55- As a signalman.- Oh, yes?- And now I'm working at London Bridge.

0:20:55 > 0:20:57Oh, yes? I know it well!

0:20:57 > 0:20:59- Yes, I know. - LAUGHTER

0:20:59 > 0:21:02I'm basically following you around on your old haunts.

0:21:02 > 0:21:04LAUGHTER

0:21:05 > 0:21:08At least we done it, we found one another.

0:21:08 > 0:21:10- Yes.- It's lovely.

0:21:11 > 0:21:15Oh, it's marvellous, really was.

0:21:15 > 0:21:17Yeah.

0:21:17 > 0:21:20Seems to be like a trait in the family, but I think that

0:21:20 > 0:21:22that trait now has been broken.

0:21:22 > 0:21:25Because I'm the sort of person that's never really

0:21:25 > 0:21:28shown a great deal of affection.

0:21:28 > 0:21:31But, my God, am I going to get it back now!

0:21:31 > 0:21:32It's lovely.

0:21:39 > 0:21:43Charlotte had managed to move away from the slums.

0:21:43 > 0:21:49But Susan, her mum, stayed in Deptford, now without her three children,

0:21:49 > 0:21:52but still under the watchful eye of Margaret and the COS.

0:21:54 > 0:21:57The Charitable Organisation Society had a mission to identify

0:21:57 > 0:22:02groups of people and analyse their situations to see

0:22:02 > 0:22:08whether they were in fact deserving of benefits or not.

0:22:08 > 0:22:10They were also concerned with people having large families

0:22:10 > 0:22:13that they were unable to take care of.

0:22:13 > 0:22:16That would take you right off the lists.

0:22:17 > 0:22:21Susan had shacked up with her new man.

0:22:21 > 0:22:25Her dead husband's brother, Nathaniel, had moved in with her.

0:22:26 > 0:22:30By all accounts, Nathaniel was a bit of a rogue,

0:22:30 > 0:22:32spending three years in prison.

0:22:34 > 0:22:36But, despite his reputation,

0:22:36 > 0:22:41Susan went on to have three children with Nathaniel, all out of wedlock.

0:22:41 > 0:22:48Susan Jessie, who died in childhood, Nathaniel Junior and Alfred.

0:22:48 > 0:22:51She made some choices that weren't so good

0:22:51 > 0:22:54and she must have known, to some extent, that they weren't

0:22:54 > 0:22:58the best choices, if she wanted to continue with benefits.

0:22:58 > 0:23:02But she made those choices anyway, they were more important to her.

0:23:02 > 0:23:06So, you know, you make your bed and you lie in it.

0:23:07 > 0:23:09I think the members of this committee will agree with me

0:23:09 > 0:23:11that it would be monstrous,

0:23:11 > 0:23:14were I to recommend the expenditure of our funds in such a way.

0:23:14 > 0:23:16Why not go to this drunken young idler, whoever he is?

0:23:16 > 0:23:17Make him support you.

0:23:19 > 0:23:25The COS decide that Susan must not receive any more money from them.

0:23:28 > 0:23:32The other children were left without funds.

0:23:32 > 0:23:39That is a black mark, I think, for Margaret and the COS.

0:23:39 > 0:23:43No matter what Susan had done, the children were not

0:23:43 > 0:23:47responsible for it and they should have received some benefit.

0:23:49 > 0:23:53Now moved around between relatives and the work house,

0:23:53 > 0:23:56the eldest of Susan's illegitimate children was Nathaniel Jr.

0:23:58 > 0:24:03Nathaniel Jr, along with his younger brother, Alfred,

0:24:03 > 0:24:06was deserted by his mother at the age of five.

0:24:06 > 0:24:09He learned to fend for himself on the streets of Deptford,

0:24:09 > 0:24:12also taking care of his younger brother

0:24:12 > 0:24:14and eventually his own family.

0:24:16 > 0:24:19Nathaniel Jr is my father.

0:24:23 > 0:24:24Having served in the War,

0:24:24 > 0:24:28Nathaniel Jr returned home through the rubble of Deptford

0:24:28 > 0:24:31and met up with Tilly, his young wife.

0:24:31 > 0:24:33He never left Deptford again.

0:24:36 > 0:24:40Many servicemen like my father returned from war,

0:24:40 > 0:24:43and like millions of others, weren't really happy to accept

0:24:43 > 0:24:46the poverty and slums that were there before.

0:24:48 > 0:24:52In 1945, a new Labour government set about laying

0:24:52 > 0:24:56the foundations of the modern welfare state.

0:24:56 > 0:24:59"Nor shall the sword sleep in my hand,

0:24:59 > 0:25:03"till we have built Jerusalem in England's green and pleasant land."

0:25:03 > 0:25:05APPLAUSE

0:25:05 > 0:25:09Suddenly the old lady visitors were a thing of the past.

0:25:09 > 0:25:13No-one to come into your house and make moral judgements.

0:25:13 > 0:25:18Now everyone was entitled to benefits, as a matter of right.

0:25:18 > 0:25:20I've just read a piece about family allowances.

0:25:20 > 0:25:24- We can get ten shillings a week for our three!- Oh, you'll never get that!

0:25:24 > 0:25:26Oh, yes, you will!

0:25:26 > 0:25:29We really want these family allowances to help...you!

0:25:29 > 0:25:32When we were young, you had the family allowance and that

0:25:32 > 0:25:35money could feed you for a little while, sort of thing, you know?

0:25:35 > 0:25:38It was the bare essentials that just kept you going, like.

0:25:40 > 0:25:44Today, in some cases, benefit does become a lifestyle,

0:25:44 > 0:25:48because people get used to living on it and they can survive on it

0:25:48 > 0:25:52and that's the way they go through life.

0:25:52 > 0:25:58But in them days, if your father made the decision not to work,

0:25:58 > 0:26:00everybody suffered and suffered badly.

0:26:02 > 0:26:06My father had various jobs. He was never out of work.

0:26:06 > 0:26:11He would take anything, he would do anything, know what I mean?

0:26:11 > 0:26:14But there was nothing to spare and if we spent any more than

0:26:14 > 0:26:18we really had, that's when the problems would start.

0:26:18 > 0:26:22SINGING

0:26:26 > 0:26:29As long as he could go out and have his beer, you know,

0:26:29 > 0:26:32and his fag, he was all right, like, you know?

0:26:32 > 0:26:36When he did go out and have a drink, he would sometimes have a good skinful.

0:26:36 > 0:26:39SINGING CONTINUES

0:26:39 > 0:26:43And you could hear. A lot of times you would hear him singing,

0:26:43 > 0:26:44you know, coming down the road.

0:26:45 > 0:26:49He was a bit of a tormentor, when he'd had a beer, like.

0:26:49 > 0:26:50You know what I mean?

0:26:50 > 0:26:54Nothing vicious about him, but he'd torment the life out of you, you know?

0:26:54 > 0:27:01When he woke up, he was sober, so, you know, he was a bit more peaceful to live with, you know? Heh!

0:27:01 > 0:27:03Yeah.

0:27:05 > 0:27:07There was no money, or very little money.

0:27:09 > 0:27:13One way of getting money was to go and knock on people's doors.

0:27:13 > 0:27:17Sometimes you wouldn't get it and it may be a bread-and-dripping dinner, you know?

0:27:17 > 0:27:20And dad would have the same. But most times, we got by.

0:27:21 > 0:27:26It wasn't just through him that we knocked on doors.

0:27:26 > 0:27:29You know what I mean? It's through what went on with my mum

0:27:29 > 0:27:33and the position she got herself in with tallymen.

0:27:35 > 0:27:39The tallyman was a door-to-door salesman, you know,

0:27:39 > 0:27:44and they'd come round and they'd sell bed linen and anything, really.

0:27:45 > 0:27:49Not only my mother, but there was a little group of them, you know.

0:27:49 > 0:27:55If they wanted instant cash, they would buy a set of sheets for £2.50,

0:27:55 > 0:27:59which they would have to pay off weekly, with interest.

0:27:59 > 0:28:01But they'd maybe go out and sell them for a pound.

0:28:01 > 0:28:03But it was a pound in their hand.

0:28:03 > 0:28:07It was a pound they never had ten minutes before the tallyman came.

0:28:07 > 0:28:10Can you leave it this week, only I'm a bit short?

0:28:10 > 0:28:12Come on, love, but you're £8 owing!

0:28:12 > 0:28:14She's what we call a pawn shop call.

0:28:14 > 0:28:16You see, we sell her a pair of blankets and ten minutes later,

0:28:16 > 0:28:19she goes and sells them for cash to some old woman down the street.

0:28:19 > 0:28:23And then she's paying me five bob a week for the rest of the year for something she hasn't even got.

0:28:23 > 0:28:28I mean, there was many a time when we wouldn't open the door.

0:28:28 > 0:28:31They bashed on the door a few times, you know?

0:28:31 > 0:28:33And then go, like, you know?

0:28:33 > 0:28:35Ah, it's not a bad life, a tallyman.

0:28:35 > 0:28:37I'm using me brains to the best of me ability.

0:28:37 > 0:28:40It's what the Tories call free enterprise.

0:28:45 > 0:28:48I followed in my father's footsteps in the fact that I've always

0:28:48 > 0:28:51tried to work, always tried to provide.

0:28:51 > 0:28:55I draw from him the way I am.

0:28:55 > 0:28:59The way I am today, or the way I think, I get from him.

0:29:01 > 0:29:04Unlike my dad, I grew up at a time

0:29:04 > 0:29:07when almost everyone was entitled to generous benefits.

0:29:08 > 0:29:12But I didn't want none of that. I wanted to work.

0:29:12 > 0:29:16I got a trade, became a carpenter and worked it from there.

0:29:17 > 0:29:23I think I was 21, 22 when we got married, you know, and I left home.

0:29:23 > 0:29:25Yeah, yeah.

0:29:25 > 0:29:29We lived in Deptford for a short time, then we moved to Brockley.

0:29:32 > 0:29:38In the end, we was able to get the mortgage to buy our own home.

0:29:38 > 0:29:41Eventually, we left London altogether.

0:29:41 > 0:29:42We came down here to Kent.

0:29:43 > 0:29:47When you're paying rent, you're just giving money to somebody else, aren't you?

0:29:47 > 0:29:50When you buy your own house, at the end of the day,

0:29:50 > 0:29:54it's bricks and mortar, but it's there, it's yours, you know?

0:29:54 > 0:29:56And if it's not mine, it's my children's.

0:29:56 > 0:29:58Yeah, it's a good investment.

0:29:58 > 0:30:01And then we come into the living room,

0:30:01 > 0:30:03which hasn't changed at all, really,

0:30:03 > 0:30:07from the day we moved in, except it's been redecorated, you know?

0:30:07 > 0:30:10- It's so different from when you were a kid.- Yeah.

0:30:10 > 0:30:14I mean, it's luxury compared to that, isn't it, you know?

0:30:16 > 0:30:19Best thing I ever done, moving out of London.

0:30:19 > 0:30:20Family's all down here as well.

0:30:20 > 0:30:24So everything's hunky dory, sort of thing. Yeah.

0:30:34 > 0:30:38Back in 1911, Susan Nelson was bringing up her three

0:30:38 > 0:30:41illegitimate children without help or welfare.

0:30:43 > 0:30:46Her benefits had been removed because of her behaviour.

0:30:48 > 0:30:53Now their father and my grandfather, Nathaniel, failed to support her.

0:30:56 > 0:30:59Not having any help at all from anybody,

0:30:59 > 0:31:02she had no means of supporting her children.

0:31:02 > 0:31:06People do silly things, don't they, you know, when they're desperate?

0:31:08 > 0:31:12Newspaper headlines haven't changed so much in a century

0:31:12 > 0:31:15and nor have our tabloid demons.

0:31:15 > 0:31:19100 years ago, my grandmother became one such demon.

0:31:21 > 0:31:26"Child in river, father's strange story of mother's action.

0:31:26 > 0:31:28"Alleged attempt to murder a child."

0:31:29 > 0:31:32"At Greenwich Police Court, Susan Nelson, 27,

0:31:32 > 0:31:35"of Watergate Street, Deptford, was charged with attempting to

0:31:35 > 0:31:39"murder her illegitimate child, Alfred, aged three, by drowning."

0:31:39 > 0:31:43"Nathaniel Nelson, the prisoner's brother-in-law, said,

0:31:43 > 0:31:46"on July the 25th, he was in a public house,

0:31:46 > 0:31:49"when the prisoner came to the door and asked,

0:31:49 > 0:31:52"'Have you got anything for this?' meaning the child.

0:31:52 > 0:31:55"He left the public house and took the child.

0:31:55 > 0:31:58"'I know he won't get no food while you are with him!'

0:31:58 > 0:32:02"She followed, shouting, 'I'm his mother and I'm entitled to whatever you give him!'

0:32:02 > 0:32:06"He then walked to the water gate and got in a boat to get out of her way.

0:32:06 > 0:32:09"She followed and taking the child by his left arm and left leg,

0:32:09 > 0:32:11"threw him in the water, saying,

0:32:11 > 0:32:14"'There he goes! Where you ought to be!'"

0:32:30 > 0:32:33This is my nan we're talking about,

0:32:33 > 0:32:35and I cannot believe that she did that to my dad.

0:32:38 > 0:32:42My name is Maureen Reid. I'm the daughter of Alfred Nelson.

0:32:44 > 0:32:47As luck would have it, there was a barge boy there.

0:32:47 > 0:32:50He grabbed my dad and pulled him out the water.

0:32:54 > 0:32:57In the end, Nathaniel changed his story in court.

0:32:58 > 0:33:01He admitted that he was drunk when he gave his statement,

0:33:01 > 0:33:04so my nan Susan was found not guilty.

0:33:07 > 0:33:10It wasn't just that what happened when he was three or four years old.

0:33:10 > 0:33:15His whole life growing up was not nice at all, but it didn't

0:33:15 > 0:33:16make him a bad man.

0:33:16 > 0:33:21So I've got to have great admiration for that.

0:33:22 > 0:33:26My dad married my mum Phyllis in 1931.

0:33:26 > 0:33:29They had eight children, me included.

0:33:31 > 0:33:33They was always happy, my mum and dad.

0:33:33 > 0:33:36That's what I remember about them.

0:33:36 > 0:33:38Although there was lots of us

0:33:38 > 0:33:41and the money was scarce, meat was scarce,

0:33:41 > 0:33:44but we always had shoes on our feet,

0:33:44 > 0:33:48we had clothes on our backs, we had food on our plates.

0:33:51 > 0:33:55My dad worked as a ferry man and a labourer in Deptford

0:33:55 > 0:33:57and he made sure we all worked.

0:34:00 > 0:34:03Him and his brothers never relied on benefits.

0:34:05 > 0:34:09If you grow up with parents working, then it runs through your family

0:34:09 > 0:34:12and it comes from how you're brought up.

0:34:12 > 0:34:16And we've all been really, really close, my brothers and sisters.

0:34:16 > 0:34:18I mean, and all my grandchildren,

0:34:18 > 0:34:19they all got good jobs,

0:34:19 > 0:34:21they all work, none of them have,

0:34:21 > 0:34:23sort of, gone by the wayside,

0:34:23 > 0:34:24to be quite honest with you.

0:34:28 > 0:34:31Do not be alarmed by noise in an air raid.

0:34:31 > 0:34:35During the War, Deptford was bombed continually.

0:34:35 > 0:34:37SIREN WAILS

0:34:39 > 0:34:42Four of Alfred Nelson's children were evacuated to Durham.

0:34:42 > 0:34:46One of the four, Alec, known as Boy-Boy, came back different.

0:34:46 > 0:34:49# We'll meet again

0:34:49 > 0:34:51# Don't know where... #

0:34:51 > 0:34:52I'm Alec Nelson.

0:34:52 > 0:34:55My dad was Alec, known as Boy-Boy to the family.

0:34:57 > 0:34:59Grandson of Alfred,

0:34:59 > 0:35:02great-grandson of Susan Nelson.

0:35:08 > 0:35:13He was evacuated at the age of four and he lived with a farmer

0:35:13 > 0:35:15and his family.

0:35:15 > 0:35:19My name is Deborah Stewart, formerly Deborah Nelson.

0:35:19 > 0:35:24Dad was Boy-Boy Nelson, or Alec Nelson.

0:35:27 > 0:35:29To many of the children, though, the country

0:35:29 > 0:35:33came as a revelation of a larger, sweeter life.

0:35:33 > 0:35:38For the first time, probably, two classes in England confronted

0:35:38 > 0:35:40each other on the home ground,

0:35:40 > 0:35:43so to speak, of the upper-middle classes.

0:35:46 > 0:35:49While he was away, Alec discovered

0:35:49 > 0:35:51a love of the countryside and fresh air,

0:35:51 > 0:35:58and was inspired by someone to explore maths and further education.

0:35:58 > 0:36:02When he came back after the , aged eight,

0:36:02 > 0:36:07he had such a strong Northern accent that his mum

0:36:07 > 0:36:12and, I guess, other members of the family, couldn't understand him.

0:36:12 > 0:36:14And they were telling him to sling his hook.

0:36:14 > 0:36:16His aunts would say to him,

0:36:16 > 0:36:18"This lady, this isn't your really mummy.

0:36:18 > 0:36:20"She found you on the door-step."

0:36:20 > 0:36:23And they would say this again and again and again till he cried

0:36:23 > 0:36:26and then when he cried, they would say, "No, not really.

0:36:26 > 0:36:27"She is your real mum, really."

0:36:28 > 0:36:30But he never got over that.

0:36:30 > 0:36:34He talked about feeling rejected from his earliest memories.

0:36:39 > 0:36:44I think that deep down, Dad always knew that he was different.

0:36:44 > 0:36:46He had drive and ambition

0:36:46 > 0:36:50and from a young age, he recognised that education was the way.

0:36:50 > 0:36:54The 1944 Education Act raised the school leaving age to 15

0:36:54 > 0:36:57and introduced the Eleven-Plus.

0:36:57 > 0:36:59Alec was keen to grasp this opportunity.

0:36:59 > 0:37:02He was the first Nelson child to pass the Eleven-Plus

0:37:02 > 0:37:04and gain a place at grammar school.

0:37:06 > 0:37:11Unfortunately for Alec, his family couldn't afford the school uniform.

0:37:11 > 0:37:16His arse was always hanging out of his trousers, we were told.

0:37:16 > 0:37:19He was humiliated and punished by the teachers.

0:37:19 > 0:37:22Certainly, he received the cane on many an occasion.

0:37:26 > 0:37:30Alec was also under pressure from home to start work and

0:37:30 > 0:37:33contribute to the household finances so he left school.

0:37:37 > 0:37:40And started learning how to become a carpenter,

0:37:40 > 0:37:42which became his trade in life.

0:37:42 > 0:37:46Dad had been studying from when he started work,

0:37:46 > 0:37:52he'd been doing night classes, funding his own books and exams.

0:37:52 > 0:37:54That's determination, isn't it?

0:37:54 > 0:37:56He wanted a different way of life.

0:37:58 > 0:38:02Mum and Dad knew each other at school and they started

0:38:02 > 0:38:06seeing each other when Mum was 15, Dad was 16.

0:38:06 > 0:38:09They got engaged, I think, a year later

0:38:09 > 0:38:12and married when Mum was 19, Dad was 20.

0:38:15 > 0:38:19And four children came along in five years, so very quickly.

0:38:22 > 0:38:25I guess what I remember of the Nelson side of the family,

0:38:25 > 0:38:29often your big family gatherings, your partying and drinking.

0:38:29 > 0:38:3218ths, 21sts, engagements, weddings.

0:38:32 > 0:38:34Always lots of booze flowing.

0:38:34 > 0:38:38Always lots of drunk people. Always ended up with a fight.

0:38:38 > 0:38:41Nan Phyllis would always get drunk and at the end of the evening

0:38:41 > 0:38:43when she was really drunk, she would sing. Gosh!

0:38:43 > 0:38:45She would sing...

0:38:45 > 0:38:46# BLEEP 'em all

0:38:46 > 0:38:48# BLEEP 'em all. #

0:38:48 > 0:38:50# So cheer up my lads bless 'em all. #

0:38:53 > 0:38:58I think Dad enjoyed a drink. but wasn't so keen on the...

0:38:58 > 0:39:00that big party atmosphere.

0:39:03 > 0:39:06I think it was just the way he wanted to live his life

0:39:06 > 0:39:10and bring us up as his children was a bit different.

0:39:18 > 0:39:20With the clearance of the pre-war slums,

0:39:20 > 0:39:24new schemes were offering many more the chance of a home in the suburbs.

0:39:26 > 0:39:30So 1964, Mum and Dad heard on the news that the Greater London Council

0:39:30 > 0:39:33were offering cheap mortgages.

0:39:33 > 0:39:35A unique way to get a house.

0:39:35 > 0:39:37About 300 people surged around the office the builders

0:39:37 > 0:39:39established on the site.

0:39:39 > 0:39:43The first 187 who deposit £50 on the following Saturday morning,

0:39:43 > 0:39:45would be the lucky ones.

0:39:45 > 0:39:47So for someone that was self-employed,

0:39:47 > 0:39:52this mortgage was the only option for him to ever buy his own house.

0:39:52 > 0:39:55They struggled, they saved for a deposit.

0:39:56 > 0:40:01They went to Strood in Kent, chose their plot

0:40:01 > 0:40:06and the end of 1964, when I was four years old, we moved in.

0:40:09 > 0:40:13Alec was about to start school and I was going to follow

0:40:13 > 0:40:17shortly behind, so it was about education. I know it was.

0:40:17 > 0:40:20And he always made it very clear to all four of us,

0:40:20 > 0:40:23you can do whatever you want in this life

0:40:23 > 0:40:25if you get yourself an education.

0:40:25 > 0:40:27And I felt exactly the same as the boys.

0:40:27 > 0:40:29I was no different being a girl.

0:40:29 > 0:40:32I knew I had opportunities.

0:40:34 > 0:40:38When I finished my A-levels, I got a place at university

0:40:38 > 0:40:41and, yeah, Mum and Dad were very pleased about that.

0:40:41 > 0:40:45And then from there I sort of... I've found my niche.

0:40:45 > 0:40:49My career in computing started taking off.

0:40:49 > 0:40:52Now I'm a business consultant.

0:40:54 > 0:40:57We moved in in...just about 16 years ago.

0:40:57 > 0:41:00March 1999, I think, is when we moved in.

0:41:00 > 0:41:02This is the kitchen.

0:41:02 > 0:41:04Fairly typical modern kitchen, really.

0:41:04 > 0:41:07Very standard units, easy to clean.

0:41:07 > 0:41:09Are you a millionaire?

0:41:09 > 0:41:12I don't know, really. What do you mean by a millionaire?

0:41:12 > 0:41:14How do you measure a millionaire?

0:41:14 > 0:41:17In bricks and mortar you can't realise it, can you, really?

0:41:19 > 0:41:21Let's go upstairs.

0:41:21 > 0:41:24What makes you want to be socially mobile?

0:41:24 > 0:41:27Perhaps there's an explorer gene that some of us

0:41:27 > 0:41:31have got that encourages people to want to try new things.

0:41:31 > 0:41:35You've got to want to make the changes or find

0:41:35 > 0:41:37and seize the opportunities.

0:41:37 > 0:41:38That's my school tie from

0:41:38 > 0:41:42Sir Joseph Williamson's Mathematical School for Boys,

0:41:42 > 0:41:44was my grammar school tie.

0:41:47 > 0:41:48I've done so many different jobs.

0:41:48 > 0:41:52When I first left school, it was insurance and accounting insurance,

0:41:52 > 0:41:54and from there,

0:41:54 > 0:41:57I went to the Army & Navy department stores accounts.

0:41:57 > 0:42:00And I remember thinking, "I need to do something for me,"

0:42:00 > 0:42:03and that's when I did get the mortgage...

0:42:03 > 0:42:06You know, I'd already been saving, I was thinking about doing it.

0:42:06 > 0:42:09That was the point I thought, "I'm going to do it," and I did.

0:42:20 > 0:42:23What do you think your dad would've made of you living down here?

0:42:23 > 0:42:26He would have loved it. Oh, I feel emotional.

0:42:29 > 0:42:30He would have loved it.

0:42:32 > 0:42:33Yeah.

0:42:33 > 0:42:39That's, perhaps, what he got from when he was evacuated.

0:42:39 > 0:42:41That time and space.

0:42:41 > 0:42:44And he always talked about wanting to go back to

0:42:44 > 0:42:45being in the countryside.

0:42:47 > 0:42:51Oh, this is England's green and pleasant land, isn't it?

0:42:51 > 0:42:53How old was he when he died?

0:42:53 > 0:42:59He was two days after he was 49. Very young.

0:43:06 > 0:43:07Sorry.

0:43:11 > 0:43:15I missed him then, I miss him now.

0:43:17 > 0:43:19I wish my children had met him.

0:43:36 > 0:43:39While some of Alfred Nelson's family did really well,

0:43:39 > 0:43:41many of his children and grandchildren

0:43:41 > 0:43:44worked to keep their heads above water.

0:43:51 > 0:43:55But some of them were never really secure.

0:43:55 > 0:44:00And when my grandad, Alex, saw his wife walk out,

0:44:00 > 0:44:03he had to go on benefits to bring up his children.

0:44:05 > 0:44:07Alex worked as a guard on the railways.

0:44:09 > 0:44:12He then married Karen and had five kids.

0:44:12 > 0:44:17In the 1980s, my nan Karen left the family home.

0:44:19 > 0:44:21In the end, Alex did something that he didn't want to do.

0:44:21 > 0:44:26He left work and then he became a single dad.

0:44:26 > 0:44:30To me, that seems very heroic.

0:44:30 > 0:44:32They were now dependent on benefits,

0:44:32 > 0:44:35National Insurance and social housing,

0:44:35 > 0:44:39but they got by and they were happy and they were healthy.

0:44:48 > 0:44:50My name's Tierney Nelson-Martin

0:44:50 > 0:44:54and Susan Nelson is my great-great-great-grandma.

0:44:57 > 0:45:01My grandad Alex was helped by an expanded welfare state to feed

0:45:01 > 0:45:03and house his five kids.

0:45:04 > 0:45:08Some of them, like my mum Vicky, have remained on benefits.

0:45:10 > 0:45:15She still lives near Deptford with me and my four brothers and sisters.

0:45:15 > 0:45:19Tierney is 17, Tia is ten,

0:45:19 > 0:45:23Tegan is nine, Leon is eight

0:45:23 > 0:45:25and Liam's five.

0:45:27 > 0:45:30They've learned their lesson from me, obviously.

0:45:30 > 0:45:32They want to have a job before they have kids,

0:45:32 > 0:45:35instead of just having kids and no job.

0:45:35 > 0:45:40It's kind of hard to find jobs, but I've got interviewed before.

0:45:40 > 0:45:43But...didn't really go nowhere

0:45:43 > 0:45:46so I just gave up trying.

0:45:47 > 0:45:49- What was that for? - It was McDonald's.

0:45:49 > 0:45:54We have a careers person at school,

0:45:54 > 0:45:55but I don't really go to her

0:45:55 > 0:45:58because before I go to her I probably research

0:45:58 > 0:45:59and if I'm going to go to her,

0:45:59 > 0:46:01she'll probably tell me what I already know.

0:46:01 > 0:46:03I told them I want to be a labourer.

0:46:05 > 0:46:07Wait, what's that?

0:46:07 > 0:46:10Building work. Build an house.

0:46:10 > 0:46:13I thought you were talking about Parliament and stuff.

0:46:13 > 0:46:15Oh, no!

0:46:15 > 0:46:16Oops.

0:46:23 > 0:46:27Not far away, my mum's sister Sharon lives with her five children

0:46:27 > 0:46:29and she's also on benefits.

0:46:30 > 0:46:34- What do you want?- My tablet. - And what do you want?- My iPad.

0:46:34 > 0:46:36iPads and pads and tablets.

0:46:36 > 0:46:38Right, here you are.

0:46:38 > 0:46:40- I'll share it with him. - Share it with him.

0:46:40 > 0:46:42- Right, take them all. - Go on, you get the lemonade.

0:46:42 > 0:46:43Right, here you are.

0:46:46 > 0:46:50'Well, there's me and my five kids.

0:46:50 > 0:46:52'There's no man figure.'

0:46:52 > 0:46:54No running. Walk.

0:46:54 > 0:46:56'So now it's just me and my children.'

0:46:56 > 0:47:00- And what's it like being on your own?- Great.

0:47:00 > 0:47:02Great.

0:47:04 > 0:47:08Sharon, have you ever had a job?

0:47:08 > 0:47:10No.

0:47:10 > 0:47:12I did want to be an archaeologist

0:47:12 > 0:47:16or an architect or a lawyer.

0:47:16 > 0:47:18That's what I always wanted to be.

0:47:18 > 0:47:21- But then Mummy had children so she can't have no-one.- Yeah.

0:47:21 > 0:47:24Can you imagine what life would be like without benefits?

0:47:24 > 0:47:26Like in the way that Susan would've had to survive?

0:47:26 > 0:47:28No, I wouldn't want to. No.

0:47:28 > 0:47:31I can't even imagine what she had to...the things

0:47:31 > 0:47:35she had to do to get food or to get clothes or whatever.

0:47:35 > 0:47:36I can't imagine it.

0:47:39 > 0:47:42Proper nouns?

0:47:43 > 0:47:47My grandad, my mum and my auntie have all lived off benefits,

0:47:47 > 0:47:50but me and my cousins don't want to do that.

0:47:52 > 0:47:55Well, if I work hard, I can actually get a good job that I want to do,

0:47:55 > 0:47:58because, nowadays, people don't work hard in school

0:47:58 > 0:48:00and they just get, like, a job they don't like.

0:48:00 > 0:48:04I want to get a job I like, so that's why I work hard in school.

0:48:04 > 0:48:05And what kind of job would you like?

0:48:05 > 0:48:10Well, I want to be an actress or a singer.

0:48:17 > 0:48:19I'm doing my mocks,

0:48:19 > 0:48:23then we have time to revise for the actual thing, which is in June.

0:48:25 > 0:48:28Then, hopefully, from there, uni.

0:48:28 > 0:48:30Does it make you proud that she's got that attitude?

0:48:30 > 0:48:33Of course. Proud Mummy.

0:48:35 > 0:48:38# I heard there was a secret chord

0:48:38 > 0:48:42# That David played and it pleased the Lord

0:48:42 > 0:48:47# But you don't really care for music, do ya? #

0:48:58 > 0:49:02More than 100 years ago the Charity Organisation Society

0:49:02 > 0:49:04made judgements about people like us.

0:49:04 > 0:49:07They decided whether my ancestor Susan Nelson deserved

0:49:07 > 0:49:09benefits or not.

0:49:09 > 0:49:12But once welfare became something for everyone,

0:49:12 > 0:49:14charities like these came to an end.

0:49:16 > 0:49:19And Margaret Marchant retired soon after the War.

0:49:20 > 0:49:23In 1946, after an extraordinary journey

0:49:23 > 0:49:25the COS ceases to exist.

0:49:27 > 0:49:30Although Margaret had no children of her own,

0:49:30 > 0:49:32she certainly had many children in her life.

0:49:32 > 0:49:35Two of those were her niece and nephew,

0:49:35 > 0:49:38Godfrey and my grandmother Eileen Marchant.

0:49:42 > 0:49:47I never met Margaret, but I was told about her all the time by my gran.

0:49:48 > 0:49:56I was politically minded through high school and into college.

0:49:56 > 0:50:00I believe that one should put one's money where one's mouth is.

0:50:00 > 0:50:03That if you believe in something strongly, that rather than

0:50:03 > 0:50:07just donate money to it, you need to go out and do it,

0:50:07 > 0:50:09and so I did.

0:50:09 > 0:50:14In the first summers after my year at college, I began volunteering

0:50:14 > 0:50:20at a women's service clinic giving information about birth control.

0:50:20 > 0:50:24Often these were people without access to information or

0:50:24 > 0:50:29people who were without funds or had very little money.

0:50:34 > 0:50:37FOOTSTEPS APPROACH

0:50:37 > 0:50:40So, most of this stuff has been in here since...

0:50:40 > 0:50:42- Do you have any idea? - It's about 30 years, I believe.

0:50:44 > 0:50:49'We are in a storage unit to look at some furniture

0:50:49 > 0:50:52'that was bequeathed to my grandmother

0:50:52 > 0:50:54'by my great-great-aunt Margaret.

0:50:54 > 0:50:57'It's the last remaining things we have of her and of my gran.'

0:50:59 > 0:51:02Oh, I love this.

0:51:04 > 0:51:08All of this stuff would have been in the house with Margaret.

0:51:08 > 0:51:10Most of them would have come from Deptford.

0:51:10 > 0:51:14It's a little upsetting to see some of these things

0:51:14 > 0:51:17because it brings back so many memories.

0:51:17 > 0:51:20You know, things I used to play with.

0:51:20 > 0:51:23The Marchants were represented by Margaret,

0:51:23 > 0:51:26my grandmother Eileen and her brother Godfrey.

0:51:28 > 0:51:32My sister and I are the main representatives of that line

0:51:32 > 0:51:34and with us, that will end.

0:51:34 > 0:51:35There are no others.

0:51:41 > 0:51:43- Pardon? - There's no-one to inherit them?

0:51:43 > 0:51:46- No nephews?- No.

0:51:46 > 0:51:49The more I think about it, especially as I learn

0:51:49 > 0:51:51more about my past and about some of my ancestors,

0:51:51 > 0:51:54or I think about all the wonderful stories Gran told me

0:51:54 > 0:51:57and things I did and what fun I had,

0:51:57 > 0:52:02and knowing that there is no-one, really, to tell any more.

0:52:06 > 0:52:09I'm going to cry. Sorry.

0:52:14 > 0:52:19I'm off to meet the distant descendants of Susan Nelson.

0:52:21 > 0:52:24Nearly 100 years after a Marchant and a Nelson were last in contact,

0:52:24 > 0:52:28Margaret's great-niece has come back to south-east London

0:52:28 > 0:52:30to see how my branch of the Nelsons has got on.

0:52:33 > 0:52:37Very curious. Very excited, actually.

0:52:40 > 0:52:41This one?

0:52:51 > 0:52:57I was hoping to meet them and chat with them a little bit.

0:52:57 > 0:52:59There doesn't seem to be anyone home.

0:53:06 > 0:53:08- What was that?- Her mum's not well.

0:53:10 > 0:53:12I was hoping to meet you.

0:53:16 > 0:53:19- Tierney.- Hello.- Hi. I'm Alexandra.

0:53:19 > 0:53:21I'm so pleased to meet you.

0:53:21 > 0:53:24- Thank you for coming down.- It's OK. - Should we come in.- Well...

0:53:24 > 0:53:26Mum's not feeling too well at the moment.

0:53:26 > 0:53:29I would let you come in, but she's still in bed.

0:53:29 > 0:53:31- She's feeling poorly.- Oh, I'm sorry.

0:53:31 > 0:53:34- It's all right.- Could we perhaps go for a cup of tea somewhere?

0:53:34 > 0:53:36- Sure.- Would that be all right?- Yeah.

0:53:36 > 0:53:39- Because I'd love to talk with you more if that was OK.- Yeah.

0:53:42 > 0:53:45Do you have any worries about, you know, life

0:53:45 > 0:53:49and what might happen or things you've seen with your family

0:53:49 > 0:53:53that you want to do differently or anything like that?

0:53:53 > 0:53:54Whatever happens, happens.

0:53:54 > 0:53:56I can't predict the future

0:53:56 > 0:53:59and I don't know what's going to happen to me when I'm older.

0:53:59 > 0:54:02I think Margaret's advice to Susan

0:54:02 > 0:54:06about the, you know, having all these children

0:54:06 > 0:54:07and no way to take care of them,

0:54:07 > 0:54:10that's one way people get really stuck.

0:54:10 > 0:54:12Just earning enough money to keep the family going

0:54:12 > 0:54:15and not being able to go forward themselves.

0:54:15 > 0:54:18- Yeah.- That's a really tough situation to be in.

0:54:18 > 0:54:23I'm more focusing on, like, having some support behind me

0:54:23 > 0:54:28before I make a decision whether or not I want to have kids.

0:54:28 > 0:54:31I need to think about who I'm going to have them with,

0:54:31 > 0:54:33marriage or not.

0:54:33 > 0:54:35I don't want someone to just be there for two seconds

0:54:35 > 0:54:39- and then just leave.- Right. - I want a stable family.

0:54:39 > 0:54:43How would you feel if you had to live on benefits?

0:54:43 > 0:54:47Most of my family are on benefits, so, like, when I see them

0:54:47 > 0:54:50and they complain about not having enough money, and for this and that,

0:54:50 > 0:54:52it kind of just gives me an insight.

0:54:52 > 0:54:54It's like, I don't want to be like that.

0:54:54 > 0:54:58So I'm going to try and make my own money, for myself

0:54:58 > 0:55:02I have a feeling you're going to do really well.

0:55:02 > 0:55:04I would be delighted to help you.

0:55:04 > 0:55:08- Oh, I appreciate that. - No, my pleasure.

0:55:10 > 0:55:11- Take care, OK?- You, too.

0:55:11 > 0:55:13All the best. And I will write.

0:55:13 > 0:55:16- Yeah, I'll write, too. - OK. Bye-bye.- See you.

0:55:32 > 0:55:34LAUGHTER

0:55:36 > 0:55:38Oh, I've lost it now.

0:55:38 > 0:55:40- Yeah, on the way back. - On the way back.

0:55:40 > 0:55:42- You'll get no promotion.- That's it.

0:55:42 > 0:55:44# This side of the ocean

0:55:44 > 0:55:46# So cheer up, my lass, bless 'em all. #

0:55:46 > 0:55:47Bless 'em all.

0:55:47 > 0:55:49LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE

0:55:51 > 0:55:55We have all come long way, I think, when you think of all trauma

0:55:55 > 0:55:59that Susan went through and that, you know.

0:55:59 > 0:56:01Oh, yeah. It's a great achievement, it is.

0:56:01 > 0:56:04I bet them other Nelsons have drunk this place dry!

0:56:04 > 0:56:05Yes. Yes!

0:56:05 > 0:56:08I mean, I'm not being funny, but now

0:56:08 > 0:56:11if you had a dozen children with a dozen different men,

0:56:11 > 0:56:13you would still be able to claim benefits.

0:56:13 > 0:56:15I don't mean that being...

0:56:15 > 0:56:17But, you know, wouldn't you, though?

0:56:17 > 0:56:21- He can't see us! - SHE LAUGHS

0:56:31 > 0:56:32Thank you. Oh, hello, Tone.

0:56:34 > 0:56:36Oh, it's all windy!

0:56:37 > 0:56:40Things have been put in place in, I would say,

0:56:40 > 0:56:44in a fairer manner than they were then.

0:56:44 > 0:56:48It's there for us at times when we really need it.

0:56:48 > 0:56:50Dad...

0:56:50 > 0:56:52this is Nathaniel's son, Roy.

0:56:52 > 0:56:55- Hello, Nathaniel.- How are you? - No, it's Roy.

0:56:55 > 0:56:57- Oh, you're Roy.- I'm Roy.- Yes.

0:56:57 > 0:57:00- Alfred's my grandad.- Yeah.

0:57:00 > 0:57:02He's the brother of Charlotte.

0:57:02 > 0:57:03- Yes. So we are, yes.- We're cousins

0:57:03 > 0:57:05- We're cousins.- Yes.

0:57:05 > 0:57:07I lost contact with Dad when I was 20

0:57:07 > 0:57:09and we were reunited yesterday.

0:57:09 > 0:57:11Oh!

0:57:11 > 0:57:13- Quite emotional.- Yes!

0:57:13 > 0:57:15It is really great how many...

0:57:15 > 0:57:16Like, the different people you have.

0:57:18 > 0:57:20So you're following the Nelson tradition of big families?

0:57:20 > 0:57:23- My dad had five, as well. - Yeah.- Yeah.

0:57:23 > 0:57:25Yeah, yeah. I decided two was enough, actually.

0:57:25 > 0:57:29If the benefits are providing a sufficiently comfortable

0:57:29 > 0:57:32lifestyle for people that they don't need to try

0:57:32 > 0:57:35and escape from the benefit system, how do we get them out?

0:57:35 > 0:57:39Getting that right is very difficult.

0:57:39 > 0:57:42Your dad come up in his Army uniform

0:57:42 > 0:57:45and he took me down to see your nan, Susan.

0:57:45 > 0:57:47She'd sit in a chair, blanket round her.

0:57:47 > 0:57:50- You know the old clay pipes? - That's it.

0:57:50 > 0:57:53She had one but the stem had broken. She had about that much stem.

0:57:53 > 0:57:55BLEEP thing was right under her nose, the bowl.

0:57:55 > 0:57:57Underneath her trumpet.

0:57:57 > 0:57:59Can I ask you all to raise a glass

0:57:59 > 0:58:03to the women that's made this all possible today? Granny Nelson.

0:58:03 > 0:58:06- ALL:- Hooray!

0:58:06 > 0:58:09So many kids and no money, and having to do everything

0:58:09 > 0:58:10and look after our kids.

0:58:10 > 0:58:13It's called stress.

0:58:13 > 0:58:16I've got five kids and it's called stress.

0:58:16 > 0:58:18So you have to carry on and get on with it.

0:58:18 > 0:58:21So, yeah. I don't think she's bad, at all.

0:58:21 > 0:58:23We won't get out of here, you know.

0:58:25 > 0:58:27Right, straight at the camera again

0:58:27 > 0:58:30and I need to hear your family name again as loud as you possibly can.

0:58:30 > 0:58:32ALL: Nelsons!

0:58:38 > 0:58:40- # Bless 'em all - # Bless 'em all

0:58:40 > 0:58:42- # Bless 'em all - # Bless 'em all

0:58:42 > 0:58:45# The long and the short and the tall

0:58:45 > 0:58:48# Bless all the sergeants and WO1's

0:58:48 > 0:58:52# Bless all the corporals and their blinkin' sons

0:58:52 > 0:58:55# Cos we're saying goodbye to them all

0:58:55 > 0:58:59# As back to their billets they crawl

0:58:59 > 0:59:02# You'll get no promotion this side of the ocean

0:59:02 > 0:59:05# So cheer up, my lads, bless 'em all. #