0:00:02 > 0:00:05Today, I'm meeting one of our most celebrated stars
0:00:05 > 0:00:06of the stage and screen.
0:00:06 > 0:00:08She grew up on a farm in West Wales,
0:00:08 > 0:00:13and knew from the age of six that acting was to be her destiny.
0:00:13 > 0:00:17Married three times, most famously to the actor Peter O'Toole,
0:00:17 > 0:00:24she has had a remarkable life and a career spanning seven decades.
0:00:24 > 0:00:26It's time to meet Sian Phillips.
0:00:27 > 0:00:33I can remember writing, "I am now resolved to be an actress."
0:00:33 > 0:00:34Why did you get married to him?
0:00:34 > 0:00:37I don't know, I remember my father saying on the morning
0:00:37 > 0:00:40of the wedding, he said, "You don't have to do this, you know."
0:00:40 > 0:00:42I must have looked a little worried.
0:00:42 > 0:00:46And I woke up in the morning and switched on my radio
0:00:46 > 0:00:49and a voice said, "Now we hand you over to Sian Phillips in Cardiff."
0:00:49 > 0:00:51- And you were still in your...? - I was in bed.
0:00:51 > 0:00:56Scars all across my forehead, right across there.
0:00:56 > 0:01:00I just, just escaped having my eyes destroyed.
0:01:00 > 0:01:02And he said, "No, no.
0:01:02 > 0:01:05"Everything has to go on the way it used to."
0:01:05 > 0:01:10And I thought, "No, it can't, that's not right. It isn't right at all."
0:01:15 > 0:01:18Sian Phillips, it's such an honour to meet you.
0:01:18 > 0:01:20That's very nice of you.
0:01:20 > 0:01:23- It is, I feel I've known you all my life.- Yes, well, ditto!
0:01:23 > 0:01:27- But people have always called me Sian Phillips by mistake.- Have they?
0:01:27 > 0:01:30They have, for almost 50 years now.
0:01:30 > 0:01:32- So it's nice to sit with another Sian.- Well, yes, yes.
0:01:32 > 0:01:37Well, how, then, did a little girl from a very Welsh farm
0:01:37 > 0:01:39go on to become an actress?
0:01:39 > 0:01:41Where did that acting bug...?
0:01:41 > 0:01:45I think there were an awful lot of actors in those villages.
0:01:45 > 0:01:48I think almost every... You know, there were star preachers.
0:01:48 > 0:01:52Because they were all performers. It was part of the Welsh character.
0:01:52 > 0:01:54Yes, and telling stories at night,
0:01:54 > 0:01:57before the advent of television or even radio.
0:01:57 > 0:02:00People would sit for hours and tell stories.
0:02:00 > 0:02:05So...I think I was surrounded by actors, in fact.
0:02:05 > 0:02:09They may have been masquerading as farmers, or coal miners,
0:02:09 > 0:02:11but they were actually quite good actors as well.
0:02:11 > 0:02:14Can you remember your first performance?
0:02:14 > 0:02:18Yes. I was a very, very junior fairy.
0:02:18 > 0:02:21And I loved my costume.
0:02:21 > 0:02:24And, well, I still have the wings,
0:02:24 > 0:02:26which I thought were the most glamorous things.
0:02:26 > 0:02:30- I must have been four.- Look at these! - But I kept my wings.
0:02:30 > 0:02:33Yes, well, they're very precious. They're really, really beautiful.
0:02:33 > 0:02:38- But I thought they were gigantic. - They were when you were that big!
0:02:38 > 0:02:39- I imagine they were.- I know!
0:02:39 > 0:02:43But it was a trip to Swansea, wasn't it, when you were very little,
0:02:43 > 0:02:45when you were six, so only a couple of years later,
0:02:45 > 0:02:47that made you think, "This is the moment"?
0:02:47 > 0:02:51It was a pantomime that made me want to go on the stage.
0:02:51 > 0:02:53The dark, and the red plush.
0:02:53 > 0:02:56And the curtain going up, and the gold fringe.
0:02:56 > 0:02:59And the band. It was total magic.
0:02:59 > 0:03:04Did you start your acting proper then? At the age of six?
0:03:04 > 0:03:07Well, I did have a journal which my mother threw away, of course.
0:03:07 > 0:03:11And it was an old ledger and I can remember writing,
0:03:11 > 0:03:15"I am now resolved to be an actress."
0:03:15 > 0:03:17You know, and I remember writing that in it.
0:03:17 > 0:03:19And my mother saying, "What's that?"
0:03:19 > 0:03:23I said, "That's what I want to be." She said, "That's ridiculous."
0:03:23 > 0:03:25No-one ever talked about it.
0:03:25 > 0:03:28Why did she think it was ridiculous?
0:03:28 > 0:03:31Well, I think, you know, in Wales when I was a child,
0:03:31 > 0:03:34people were coming out of the '30s depression.
0:03:34 > 0:03:37And times were so hard,
0:03:37 > 0:03:42that for anybody to go into a high-risk profession was unheard of.
0:03:42 > 0:03:47So children from my neighbourhood all became teachers, doctors, solicitors.
0:03:47 > 0:03:49- And your mother had been a teacher as well.- My mother,
0:03:49 > 0:03:51she didn't teach me anything, only reciting.
0:03:51 > 0:03:55She never taught me anything. I spent most of my childhood alone at home.
0:03:55 > 0:03:58When I wasn't performing, I was being ill.
0:03:58 > 0:04:03So I just was on my own most of the time, but in heavenly countryside.
0:04:03 > 0:04:08I mean, I had a childhood which was so perfect.
0:04:08 > 0:04:13It...it was so happy, I can't begin... I just read and walked.
0:04:13 > 0:04:15It was idyllic, it was totally idyllic.
0:04:15 > 0:04:18So despite the fact that you were ill, you had scarlet fever,
0:04:18 > 0:04:22- you had eczema.- I nearly died a lot of times, you know.
0:04:22 > 0:04:24So I think my parents were quite strict with me
0:04:24 > 0:04:27because I was an only child and my sister had died.
0:04:27 > 0:04:31My sister, who would have been older than me by a couple of years,
0:04:31 > 0:04:32died unaccountably.
0:04:32 > 0:04:34It was one of those cot deaths
0:04:34 > 0:04:38that were unknown at the time, you know, nobody knew.
0:04:38 > 0:04:43So...I think they must have been terrified every time I nearly died.
0:04:43 > 0:04:47I'm just going to show you something that was written...
0:04:47 > 0:04:49Your mother clearly didn't throw everything away.
0:04:49 > 0:04:52No, she didn't, I can't think how this slipped through the net.
0:04:52 > 0:04:55This is in Welsh, so you'll be better at translating this than I.
0:04:55 > 0:05:01I starred in this play. It was Mair a'r wyau, Mair and the Eggs.
0:05:01 > 0:05:05And this is the story of a little girl and a basket of eggs.
0:05:05 > 0:05:09And we performed this in my primary school on one of the rare terms
0:05:09 > 0:05:10when I was actually there.
0:05:10 > 0:05:14And I can remember it still, the basket and the eggs.
0:05:14 > 0:05:16And I was Mair.
0:05:16 > 0:05:20So I played the star part in this play. It's only two pages!
0:05:20 > 0:05:23So when you got to grammar school, what was that like?
0:05:23 > 0:05:26I think I was probably a successful schoolgirl. I just adored it.
0:05:26 > 0:05:30- I loved every second of it.- And did you do more drama at grammar?
0:05:30 > 0:05:34Oh, yes. By that time, of course, I was beginning to work.
0:05:34 > 0:05:35I was working for the BBC.
0:05:35 > 0:05:40So I was being given leave of absence already to go to Swansea
0:05:40 > 0:05:43- or to go to Cardiff from Pontardawe. - Really?- Oh, yes. To broadcast.
0:05:43 > 0:05:46And what would you do in Swansea and Cardiff?
0:05:46 > 0:05:48I would be in Children's Hour.
0:05:48 > 0:05:53And I would also be in poetry programmes.
0:05:53 > 0:05:56The cultural life of Wales is very important and, of course,
0:05:56 > 0:06:00- there's the Eisteddfod.- Yeah. - In fact, we have...
0:06:00 > 0:06:03- Wow!- Have you not seen that before? - No, I haven't seen that before.
0:06:03 > 0:06:07- That's the one that you did. - I was 11, that's it, yeah.
0:06:07 > 0:06:08That was very exciting,
0:06:08 > 0:06:11that was the biggest audience I'd ever played to, obviously.
0:06:11 > 0:06:14It was thousands, 13,000 people.
0:06:14 > 0:06:17- So you won!- So we won. - And here you are.
0:06:17 > 0:06:20- Is this it?- Yes, this is the announcement where you won.
0:06:20 > 0:06:23- I'm just looking for your name there.- Aelwen, would it be Aelwen?
0:06:23 > 0:06:26- So you weren't Sian there? - No, I wasn't Sian there.
0:06:26 > 0:06:29- You were Jane Elizabeth...- Aelwen.
0:06:29 > 0:06:31And it's not even Ael-wen, it's Ael-win.
0:06:31 > 0:06:33So nobody got it right.
0:06:33 > 0:06:36It was a made-up name, it means second smile.
0:06:36 > 0:06:39- Oh, lovely. - Because my sister had died.
0:06:39 > 0:06:42- So that was a name my mother made up.- Oh, that's nice.
0:06:42 > 0:06:45So the BBC invited you to perform in their mobile studio?
0:06:45 > 0:06:49Yes, to repeat that. And then I think it was probably Lorraine Davis
0:06:49 > 0:06:53who first engaged me to go and actually act in Cardiff,
0:06:53 > 0:06:55to do proper acting.
0:06:55 > 0:06:58In fact, this, I think, is one of your first cheques.
0:06:58 > 0:07:04- They did everything in guineas. So it was 10 shillings.- Plus rail fare.
0:07:04 > 0:07:07Plus rail fare, which, of course, I didn't use, I took the bus and saved.
0:07:07 > 0:07:10And look here, you're still Miss Jane...
0:07:10 > 0:07:13Yes, exactly, I would have still have been Jane.
0:07:13 > 0:07:15But by that time, I was being called Sian.
0:07:15 > 0:07:20Because Ike Davis at school, who was my Welsh master, changed it.
0:07:20 > 0:07:23Ike Davis. He was very influential, wasn't he, on you?
0:07:23 > 0:07:26Oh, there he is, with the pipe, of course. Oh, yes.
0:07:26 > 0:07:31And of course, he wrote plays as well which we performed at school.
0:07:31 > 0:07:33You know, he was actually writing for us, it was great.
0:07:33 > 0:07:36So you did feel there were some people in your life, even then,
0:07:36 > 0:07:38who got hold of you and knew what you wanted to do
0:07:38 > 0:07:40and helped you get there?
0:07:40 > 0:07:42My headmaster, Stan Reiss,
0:07:42 > 0:07:45who was very interested in drama,
0:07:45 > 0:07:48he asked Hugh Griffith to come up.
0:07:48 > 0:07:51Hugh was visiting the Grand Theatre, Swansea,
0:07:51 > 0:07:55and he asked Hugh to come up, nine miles up the valley on a bus,
0:07:55 > 0:07:59to school, to see me act, to see if I was any good.
0:07:59 > 0:08:02And then he wrote a letter to my mother, saying,
0:08:02 > 0:08:04"I really recommend that you send her to RADA now."
0:08:04 > 0:08:08And I was 15, so I would have gone when I was 16,
0:08:08 > 0:08:10which I was desperate to do.
0:08:10 > 0:08:15And even my headmaster said, "That is where you must go, eventually."
0:08:15 > 0:08:20And, um...my mother didn't even answer the letter, she threw it away.
0:08:20 > 0:08:21Why?
0:08:21 > 0:08:25Well, it was inconceivable to any parent where I lived
0:08:25 > 0:08:28that one shouldn't go to university.
0:08:28 > 0:08:31- It was out of the question. - So education was all?
0:08:31 > 0:08:35Oh, it was the most important thing, but I knew what I was going to do.
0:08:35 > 0:08:40I thought I would just do my degree and then I'll do it, so I did.
0:08:40 > 0:08:44- Where did you do your degree?- I did my degree at Cardiff University.
0:08:44 > 0:08:46That was the big bonus of being at university,
0:08:46 > 0:08:48because the back door of the university
0:08:48 > 0:08:50was opposite the front door of the BBC.
0:08:50 > 0:08:53So I wore a track between the two doors
0:08:53 > 0:08:56and I would get up really early in the morning
0:08:56 > 0:09:00and go and open the station, as the most junior announcer.
0:09:00 > 0:09:01And I'd be there,
0:09:01 > 0:09:05and then I would write my essays in the announcers' suite.
0:09:05 > 0:09:09I would write essays. Then run back to the university, do a few lectures.
0:09:09 > 0:09:11- So you were 17 at this point? - 17, 18, 19.
0:09:11 > 0:09:13- And you were a radio announcer? - I was.
0:09:13 > 0:09:17I was terrified of announcing because it's a grown-up job.
0:09:17 > 0:09:19You know, you've really got to be able to add up.
0:09:19 > 0:09:23- So I was suspended a couple of times. - Why?
0:09:23 > 0:09:28Well, there was one terrible morning, when I'd gone to bed, exhausted.
0:09:28 > 0:09:31And I woke up in the morning and switched on my radio
0:09:31 > 0:09:35and a voice said, "Now we hand you over to Sian Phillips in Cardiff."
0:09:35 > 0:09:38- And you were still in your...? - I was in bed. I was in my pyjamas.
0:09:38 > 0:09:41I was out on the road in my pyjamas in under 10 seconds,
0:09:41 > 0:09:46flagging down a lift, into the BBC, where I apologised
0:09:46 > 0:09:49for a technical fault at the transmitter because it sounded good.
0:09:49 > 0:09:52That always works. I use that all the time.
0:09:52 > 0:09:55The engineers were furious, they were absolutely livid.
0:09:55 > 0:09:57There were things like that, obviously.
0:09:57 > 0:10:00And I was a little bit inexpert with playing records.
0:10:00 > 0:10:04And I did once get my scarf caught in the epilogue,
0:10:04 > 0:10:05as it was going round, slowly,
0:10:05 > 0:10:07and I was trying to read the time,
0:10:07 > 0:10:10because I'd forgotten to take the duration
0:10:10 > 0:10:13of this huge, slow disc that was going round.
0:10:13 > 0:10:17So I was going, can it be nine seconds, no?
0:10:17 > 0:10:19But my scarf got caught in the arm.
0:10:19 > 0:10:24And I was gradually being sucked down as it went round,
0:10:24 > 0:10:26I was getting closer and closer to the epilogue,
0:10:26 > 0:10:30and signalling frantically at the engineer in the next room.
0:10:30 > 0:10:33Finally he saw me and came and cut me out.
0:10:33 > 0:10:35Because I don't know what would have happened
0:10:35 > 0:10:38if my nose had actually hit the epilogue, not good.
0:10:38 > 0:10:40But... And I loved it.
0:10:40 > 0:10:44And when the time came for me to go to RADA,
0:10:44 > 0:10:45because it did come eventually,
0:10:45 > 0:10:48there was a moment when they said, "Well, you can...
0:10:48 > 0:10:52"we will train you to be the first anchorwoman."
0:10:52 > 0:10:57- Really?- Yes, in Wales, because there weren't any woman doing that job.
0:10:57 > 0:11:01And television was starting and I had started to do television.
0:11:01 > 0:11:03It was a genuine dilemma.
0:11:03 > 0:11:06Although everything I wanted in life was coming true,
0:11:06 > 0:11:09and I was going to go to RADA,
0:11:09 > 0:11:12I loved the BBC so much.
0:11:12 > 0:11:15There were days and days where I thought,
0:11:15 > 0:11:17I really don't want to leave this place.
0:11:17 > 0:11:19So you moved to RADA at 20.
0:11:19 > 0:11:21That must have been terribly exciting.
0:11:21 > 0:11:24Describe if you can, if you can remember what it was like,
0:11:24 > 0:11:28when you walk into this building, with all these fellow actors.
0:11:28 > 0:11:29Oh, yes.
0:11:29 > 0:11:33The door with the two statues either side and the boards up,
0:11:33 > 0:11:37with all...Charles Laughton's name, and Celia Johnson.
0:11:37 > 0:11:40It was just... It was everything I had imagined it would be
0:11:40 > 0:11:42from the age of six.
0:11:42 > 0:11:44It was better.
0:11:44 > 0:11:47I'd never been so happy in my life, you know,
0:11:47 > 0:11:50because I thought, "I was right, I was absolutely right.
0:11:50 > 0:11:52"This is where I'm supposed to be."
0:11:52 > 0:11:54So, Sian, you had this passion to get to London
0:11:54 > 0:11:57and to learn the skill and craft of acting.
0:11:57 > 0:12:00- You were married...- Yes, I was.
0:12:00 > 0:12:01- ..at this stage.- I know.
0:12:01 > 0:12:05- You'd met Don, who was a postgrad student...- Yes, yes.
0:12:05 > 0:12:08- ..and married him. - And got married, yes, we did.
0:12:08 > 0:12:12It was very short-lived, it was all my fault, really, I think.
0:12:12 > 0:12:14Because I knew what was going to happen.
0:12:14 > 0:12:18Every boyfriend I ever had, or every fiance or every husband,
0:12:18 > 0:12:22come to that, there always came a moment when they said,
0:12:22 > 0:12:24"But, of course, you would give up acting."
0:12:24 > 0:12:27And I just couldn't ever do that.
0:12:27 > 0:12:29It was impossible.
0:12:29 > 0:12:32And I knew I wasn't ever going to be...to do that.
0:12:32 > 0:12:36I don't think he could have realised how obsessed I was, really.
0:12:36 > 0:12:40- Why did you get married to him? - Well, er...
0:12:43 > 0:12:45It was because, I don't know.
0:12:45 > 0:12:48I remember my father saying on the morning of the wedding,
0:12:48 > 0:12:51he said, "You don't have to do this, you know."
0:12:51 > 0:12:52I must've looked little worried.
0:12:52 > 0:12:55- You were wearing grey. - I was wearing grey.
0:12:55 > 0:12:57- And no flowers.- I know.
0:12:57 > 0:13:00I mean, I was very fond of him, of course, he was a wonderful person.
0:13:00 > 0:13:04It had gone too far, the whole thing snowballed
0:13:04 > 0:13:06and the arrangements were made and the families met
0:13:06 > 0:13:09and the whole thing went forward.
0:13:09 > 0:13:13And I just felt it would be so rude not to, somehow,
0:13:13 > 0:13:17- which was really stupid.- Did you tell Don you'd been accepted at RADA?
0:13:17 > 0:13:20Do you know? I can't even remember that. I really...
0:13:20 > 0:13:23I think the whole thing was so painful
0:13:23 > 0:13:25and so very worrying at the time.
0:13:25 > 0:13:30I realised that when the chips were down, I wouldn't have a choice.
0:13:30 > 0:13:34- I didn't have a choice. So I just went.- Do you regret it?- No.
0:13:34 > 0:13:36No, I don't.
0:13:36 > 0:13:40The main thing for me was that I was suddenly ecstatically happy.
0:13:40 > 0:13:43And I knew I was where I was supposed to be.
0:13:43 > 0:13:47You were doing so well at RADA at this time.
0:13:47 > 0:13:48You were winning awards,
0:13:48 > 0:13:50you won the Bancroft Gold Medal for your performances.
0:13:50 > 0:13:55- You had a chance to go into films... - Yes.- ..and decided not to. Why?
0:13:55 > 0:13:57I was just called into the office and told,
0:13:57 > 0:14:02"These offers have come through, but, of course, you won't accept them."
0:14:02 > 0:14:05And I said, "No, certainly not."
0:14:05 > 0:14:08And they said, "Because we have trained you for the theatre.
0:14:08 > 0:14:10"That's what you've been trained for."
0:14:10 > 0:14:13But Paramount showed so much interest in you at one stage,
0:14:13 > 0:14:17- that you had been in a rather nasty car crash.- Yes, I had.
0:14:17 > 0:14:20- And had injuries to your face. - My face was flattened.
0:14:20 > 0:14:22My nose was broken, my jaw was broken.
0:14:22 > 0:14:26And I had scars all across my forehead.
0:14:26 > 0:14:28You know, right across there,
0:14:28 > 0:14:32I just, just escaped having my eyes destroyed.
0:14:32 > 0:14:36And I think it was Paramount or Columbia that said,
0:14:36 > 0:14:41"No, we must put your face back where it was." And Paramount paid for it.
0:14:41 > 0:14:42So it was a whole...
0:14:42 > 0:14:47he had a photograph of me and he just remade the face completely.
0:14:47 > 0:14:51- You were doing a lot of television work at this stage.- A lot, yes.
0:14:51 > 0:14:53I just want to show you something here.
0:14:53 > 0:14:57I don't know whether you remember this. This is A Quiet Man.
0:14:57 > 0:15:00- Oh, my goodness, I do remember.- Yes?
0:15:00 > 0:15:02- Yes!- From the BBC's Welsh television studios.
0:15:02 > 0:15:04By gosh, yes.
0:15:04 > 0:15:06Oh, that's... How amazing.
0:15:06 > 0:15:07Gosh, yes.
0:15:07 > 0:15:10Yes, I did an awful lot of plays at the time.
0:15:10 > 0:15:15But doing live performances on television. And this lasted an hour.
0:15:15 > 0:15:19I know. And you not only did the performance, but you did the trailer.
0:15:19 > 0:15:23- Did you?!- You had to go into the studio to do the trailer,
0:15:23 > 0:15:24and what was more,
0:15:24 > 0:15:27- if it was a big production, you went in and did the repeat.- Did you?!
0:15:27 > 0:15:30- So you had to do the whole hour again?- You did it twice.
0:15:30 > 0:15:31You did it all again, yeah.
0:15:31 > 0:15:36The BBC did a behind-the-scenes of you and some fellow actors
0:15:36 > 0:15:43- and actresses. And that's you.- I've never seen this. It's extraordinary.
0:15:43 > 0:15:45My goodness.
0:15:45 > 0:15:48Gosh, I'll have to put my glasses on. I can't...
0:15:48 > 0:15:52- So you're doing a radio play here. - I was doing a radio play, yes.
0:15:53 > 0:15:56- What's it like, looking at yourself? - It's very strange.
0:15:56 > 0:15:59Oh, and there's Doria. Doria Noar.
0:15:59 > 0:16:02That's right, who was married to Ken Griffith.
0:16:02 > 0:16:07- Oh.- Yes. Well, of course, there's Ken and Doria.
0:16:07 > 0:16:10- And...- Peter O'Toole.- Peter O'Toole.
0:16:10 > 0:16:13The man that you were going to spend 20 years of your life with
0:16:13 > 0:16:16- and, of course, marry.- Yes, indeed. That was before we got married.
0:16:16 > 0:16:18- Was it?- Oh, yes. - So, how did it start, then?
0:16:20 > 0:16:24Well, I just ran into him on the pavement outside the Spaghetti House
0:16:24 > 0:16:28off Broad Street in London where I was at RADA.
0:16:28 > 0:16:32And he was on the pavement, visiting from Bristol Old Vic.
0:16:32 > 0:16:36He was already out in the world and playing. I was still a student.
0:16:36 > 0:16:39And I came out and I was introduced to him.
0:16:39 > 0:16:44And I just mentally made a note. I thought, "I'll marry him one day."
0:16:44 > 0:16:48And I just walked away, and we didn't see each other again for...
0:16:48 > 0:16:50Could have been 18 months, maybe two years.
0:16:50 > 0:16:52So what was it about that moment?
0:16:52 > 0:16:54What was it about him that you thought,
0:16:54 > 0:16:57- "That's the man I'm going to marry"? - Yes, I just knew I would marry him.
0:16:57 > 0:17:00- What was it about him? - Well, he seemed...
0:17:00 > 0:17:04He was, and he seemed to me particularly, unlike anybody else.
0:17:04 > 0:17:07I was wrong in this regard, actually. I made a mistake.
0:17:07 > 0:17:10But it seemed to me that he was a very free spirit
0:17:10 > 0:17:14and quite unlike all the other men I'd ever met in that he would
0:17:14 > 0:17:20never want me to stop acting or cut back or be domesticated
0:17:20 > 0:17:22in any way, which I was not.
0:17:22 > 0:17:24I never pretended I was.
0:17:24 > 0:17:26And it was wonderful.
0:17:26 > 0:17:30I adored him, and he did adore me, and it was very, very happy,
0:17:30 > 0:17:35but also, of course, I didn't realise that he was a lot cleverer
0:17:35 > 0:17:37than I was, and actually,
0:17:37 > 0:17:42he managed to bed me down in domesticity in a way that
0:17:42 > 0:17:46nobody else had been able to, because they were more upfront about it.
0:17:46 > 0:17:51But he was much more subtle and much more skilful.
0:17:51 > 0:17:54In your book, you say, "Clever women never nagged.
0:17:54 > 0:17:56"They dodged the flying crockery
0:17:56 > 0:17:58"and went away to get some peaceful sleep,
0:17:58 > 0:18:00"and never in the morning referred to
0:18:00 > 0:18:02"the excesses of the night before."
0:18:02 > 0:18:07Well, no. Not if you want a decent life, you know, no, you don't.
0:18:07 > 0:18:12And anyway, I hate scenes. That's another failing, I don't like scenes.
0:18:12 > 0:18:16- So he was charming? - Oh, totally, yes. Very amusing.
0:18:16 > 0:18:18Terribly funny man. Very funny.
0:18:18 > 0:18:21So even though he was difficult and sometimes cruel
0:18:21 > 0:18:24- and would drink and say hurtful things...- Yes, he would.
0:18:24 > 0:18:28But the problem was, I was very amused and diverted at the same time.
0:18:28 > 0:18:30I couldn't help it.
0:18:30 > 0:18:33But you're formidable, and you've got this steely core.
0:18:33 > 0:18:38And yet when it came to men, or when it came to him, that disappeared.
0:18:38 > 0:18:42It was him particularly, because other men I would walk away from.
0:18:42 > 0:18:44But him, I just couldn't. I just adored him.
0:18:44 > 0:18:48He was more wonderful than awful.
0:18:48 > 0:18:50And you acted together as well.
0:18:50 > 0:18:54Actually, you acted together after you'd married. This is Siwan.
0:18:55 > 0:18:59The king's daughter. And you were... You must have been pregnant.
0:18:59 > 0:19:03- I was pregnant, yes.- With Kate, your first daughter.- That's right.
0:19:03 > 0:19:05There are things in me that you awaken.
0:19:08 > 0:19:11- They frighten me. - The things that make life sweet?
0:19:11 > 0:19:14That make life bitter.
0:19:14 > 0:19:19Things that have been dumb. Things I hid from my own sight because I had no part in them.
0:19:19 > 0:19:20I don't like watching myself.
0:19:20 > 0:19:23- Don't you? I'm sorry. Why not?- I don't know.
0:19:23 > 0:19:25It's never quite what you meant.
0:19:25 > 0:19:29Do I? No, I don't. Business and pleasure are two things apart.
0:19:29 > 0:19:32Pleasure? That's not the name of the love I have for you.
0:19:32 > 0:19:33Your flattery falls rather short tonight.
0:19:33 > 0:19:36Is it because I'm so old that your love gives you pain?
0:19:36 > 0:19:39- I didn't come here to be teased.- You know I am ten years older than you,
0:19:39 > 0:19:42and the mother of four grown children. That's not teasing.
0:19:44 > 0:19:49You're analysing your own acting there, aren't you? I can feel it.
0:19:49 > 0:19:53Did you feel your career might have gone differently had you not
0:19:53 > 0:19:55married him?
0:19:55 > 0:19:58- Oh, totally differently, yes, it would.- In what way?
0:19:58 > 0:20:02Well, I wouldn't have had those constraints. I wouldn't have spent...
0:20:02 > 0:20:08I spent a good 15 years, really, tailoring my work to my life,
0:20:08 > 0:20:11which you don't do, especially not those years,
0:20:11 > 0:20:14those years between the age of 25 and 40.
0:20:14 > 0:20:17That's when the offers are very big and very nice.
0:20:17 > 0:20:20And they're the most important years for you, in a way.
0:20:20 > 0:20:23I was very isolated during that period.
0:20:23 > 0:20:28So all the connections I'd ever made in the business were severed,
0:20:28 > 0:20:31because he didn't like to have strangers in one's life.
0:20:31 > 0:20:33I didn't have friends, you know.
0:20:33 > 0:20:37I couldn't see any way out of it other than leaving,
0:20:37 > 0:20:40and at that point, I just couldn't leave. I just couldn't.
0:20:40 > 0:20:43- It sounds like quite a lonely existence.- It was lonely. It was.
0:20:43 > 0:20:45And especially, I would imagine,
0:20:45 > 0:20:48- when he gets the role of Lawrence of Arabia?- Yes.
0:20:48 > 0:20:51And that took two years to film.
0:20:51 > 0:20:53And that was a huge role.
0:20:53 > 0:20:56- And a lot of pressure on him. A huge amount of pressure.- Enormous.
0:20:56 > 0:21:01- And there he is. Did you go out? - A tremendous amount.
0:21:01 > 0:21:04I loved the desert. I just loved living under canvas.
0:21:04 > 0:21:07And he had it in his contract I could go out once a month.
0:21:07 > 0:21:12What sort of acting roles were you taking on at this stage?
0:21:12 > 0:21:14Well, I was managing...
0:21:14 > 0:21:17Mostly I was keeping quiet,
0:21:17 > 0:21:20because it was very awkward
0:21:20 > 0:21:24when I did very well, or when people paid a lot of attention to me.
0:21:24 > 0:21:27Domestically, it wasn't easy.
0:21:27 > 0:21:30So I used to keep as quiet as I could, but unfortunately,
0:21:30 > 0:21:33I did have a lot of success in that time, quite accidentally.
0:21:33 > 0:21:37- It just sort of happened.- I'm going to show you another clip here.
0:21:37 > 0:21:40See if you know what this is.
0:21:40 > 0:21:42Oh! I think I do know.
0:21:42 > 0:21:44This is behind the scenes,
0:21:44 > 0:21:46so they're just showing you behind the scenes.
0:21:46 > 0:21:49- It's How Green Was My Valley. - That's it. Stanley Baker.
0:21:49 > 0:21:52He was so wonderful in this.
0:21:52 > 0:21:55- I don't think it's ever been repeated, you know.- Hasn't it?
0:21:55 > 0:21:57I don't think so.
0:21:57 > 0:21:59I hear you've been saying some unheard-of things
0:21:59 > 0:22:01down in Calfaria.
0:22:01 > 0:22:03- Yes, Mam.- Good.
0:22:06 > 0:22:08Good boy.
0:22:09 > 0:22:12Your mam is so glad, she could scream.
0:22:12 > 0:22:13Beth?!
0:22:15 > 0:22:19That was Stanley Baker's last part before he died.
0:22:19 > 0:22:22- You're as bad as he is, girl. - Yes, Gwilym Morgan.
0:22:23 > 0:22:26And you are as bad as that pack down by there.
0:22:27 > 0:22:30I can see now where they get it from.
0:22:30 > 0:22:32No wonder I'm rearing a nest of scorpions in this house.
0:22:32 > 0:22:34Yeah.
0:22:34 > 0:22:39But the thing I suppose that you're known for in many people's eyes
0:22:39 > 0:22:43is I, Claudius, where you played the scheming Livia.
0:22:43 > 0:22:45Yes. Oh, yes.
0:22:47 > 0:22:49Loved it.
0:22:52 > 0:22:55Hands knocking on your doors.
0:22:55 > 0:22:57You're all crying for the moon.
0:22:57 > 0:23:00Go on back to your homes and...
0:23:02 > 0:23:04You call yourselves Romans?
0:23:06 > 0:23:08THEY CHUCKLE
0:23:08 > 0:23:12- Do you remember that?- Yes, I do! - Being pelted with I don't know what.
0:23:12 > 0:23:15They were a bit over-enthusiastic, I thought.
0:23:15 > 0:23:19- Yes! Was it meant to hit you right in the eye?- I don't suppose so.
0:23:19 > 0:23:21I don't suppose it was!
0:23:22 > 0:23:24We've got another clip here.
0:23:25 > 0:23:27(I must get away from her.)
0:23:28 > 0:23:30(I must leave Rome.)
0:23:31 > 0:23:32You'll stay.
0:23:34 > 0:23:36You'll have patience.
0:23:36 > 0:23:38As I have.
0:23:38 > 0:23:40Where has your patience got you?
0:23:41 > 0:23:43You've watched him, Mother.
0:23:44 > 0:23:46If you leave Rome,
0:23:46 > 0:23:49I'll wash my hands of you once and for all.
0:23:50 > 0:23:53And shed not a single tear.
0:23:53 > 0:23:55- That was a big role, though, wasn't it?- Yes, it was.
0:23:55 > 0:23:58- Huge television success. - Yes, it was.
0:23:58 > 0:24:04So, how were things, then, in your relationship at this time,
0:24:04 > 0:24:08with Peter, when he didn't like you being a huge success?
0:24:08 > 0:24:12Well, our marriage did sort of unravel round about that time.
0:24:12 > 0:24:14It just did.
0:24:14 > 0:24:17So when was the moment when you thought,
0:24:17 > 0:24:20"I can't live with this man any more -
0:24:20 > 0:24:22"I've got to have a different sort of life"?
0:24:22 > 0:24:27Well, it was really after he'd been very, very ill, mortally ill,
0:24:27 > 0:24:29and had been expected not to survive.
0:24:29 > 0:24:33It had been really heartbreaking and terribly worrying, the worst
0:24:33 > 0:24:37time I'd ever had in my life, when I thought I was going to lose him.
0:24:37 > 0:24:43And then life began to reassert itself, and I thought, "We can't
0:24:43 > 0:24:48"go on in that sort of separate way that we'd been going on before.
0:24:48 > 0:24:50"That's not right."
0:24:50 > 0:24:54And he said, "No, everything has to go on the way it used to.
0:24:54 > 0:24:57And I thought, "No, it can't.
0:24:57 > 0:25:02"That's not right. It isn't right at all." And it was then.
0:25:02 > 0:25:06I thought, "If it has to go back to being like that,
0:25:06 > 0:25:08"then that's not right.
0:25:08 > 0:25:10"It just isn't right."
0:25:10 > 0:25:13And somebody else came on the scene after that?
0:25:13 > 0:25:14Yes, but it was really...
0:25:14 > 0:25:18If anything was ever meant to be a fling, it was that, I'm afraid.
0:25:18 > 0:25:20But you were married to Robin Sachs for 12 years.
0:25:20 > 0:25:24I married him later, yes, but it was a terrible mistake.
0:25:24 > 0:25:27I mean, I knew it was. I didn't want to marry him.
0:25:27 > 0:25:31And he went on and on and on for three years, you know, pestered,
0:25:31 > 0:25:33after I'd left O'Toole.
0:25:33 > 0:25:36What is it about these men who pester you into marriage?
0:25:36 > 0:25:39I don't know. It's a weakness, that's what it is.
0:25:39 > 0:25:41It's not "what is it about them?" It's "what is it about me?"
0:25:41 > 0:25:46Because there was a special licence and a party ready to go, and...
0:25:46 > 0:25:51And of course I should have said no, absolutely.
0:25:51 > 0:25:53But I didn't.
0:25:53 > 0:25:57- And then what was that part of your life like?- Well, it wasn't good.
0:25:57 > 0:26:03I'm really not proud of this at all, but I just did what I wanted to do.
0:26:03 > 0:26:06I started to work much harder.
0:26:06 > 0:26:07It always sounds to me like
0:26:07 > 0:26:11there's a tussle with you between what you actually want to do
0:26:11 > 0:26:13and the love you have for acting,
0:26:13 > 0:26:15and what you feel you ought to do.
0:26:15 > 0:26:16Yes, this is true.
0:26:16 > 0:26:21And it took a long time in the case of O'Toole for that become resolved.
0:26:21 > 0:26:24But with everything else, it happened very quickly.
0:26:24 > 0:26:27There wasn't much contest.
0:26:27 > 0:26:30Back to the work you've been doing on the stage.
0:26:30 > 0:26:34You had a very successful role, Marlene.
0:26:34 > 0:26:38All the songs that she used to sing in her cabaret were in that show.
0:26:38 > 0:26:42So I took that all over the world, and it was marvellous to do.
0:26:42 > 0:26:45Because I met so many people that knew her.
0:26:45 > 0:26:49One of my favourite jobs recently was doing Juliet.
0:26:49 > 0:26:51Romeo and Juliet, set in a care home.
0:26:51 > 0:26:53So I finally got to play Juliet!
0:26:53 > 0:26:57- At the age of what? - How old was I then?
0:26:57 > 0:26:59About 75, I suppose!
0:27:00 > 0:27:03And then I've been in America now doing
0:27:03 > 0:27:07- The Importance Of Being Earnest in Washington.- As Lady Bracknell.
0:27:07 > 0:27:10Yes, and I'm going to do it again in the West End.
0:27:10 > 0:27:12So it sounds like a very exciting year.
0:27:12 > 0:27:16Last year, I imagine, must have been quite a difficult one for you,
0:27:16 > 0:27:19- because Peter O'Toole died.- Yes.
0:27:19 > 0:27:21- And you had to go to the funeral?- Yes.
0:27:21 > 0:27:24That was December of last year. And that was, um...
0:27:24 > 0:27:27Just before Christmas. It was terribly sad.
0:27:27 > 0:27:32Because I was in Washington, and I knew he was dying when I left,
0:27:32 > 0:27:37but he died a week after I'd got to Washington, so I turned around
0:27:37 > 0:27:42and came back, just for the day, and then went back to work.
0:27:42 > 0:27:45It was terribly, terribly sad.
0:27:45 > 0:27:48Can you remember the last conversation you had together?
0:27:48 > 0:27:50That was so long ago.
0:27:50 > 0:27:52- Was it?- Oh, yes.
0:27:52 > 0:27:57And it wasn't a nice conversation. But...
0:27:57 > 0:28:00No, that was not a good memory.
0:28:00 > 0:28:05I can't even remember entirely, you know, what it was.
0:28:05 > 0:28:08But it was a very long time ago.
0:28:08 > 0:28:12- Now you are in a happier place. - Yes, I am.
0:28:12 > 0:28:15- And enjoying life?- Very much.
0:28:15 > 0:28:17Very much indeed.
0:28:17 > 0:28:20I could never have expected to be having such a good time.
0:28:20 > 0:28:24I feel happy now in the way I was happy when I was a child.
0:28:24 > 0:28:26I realised the other...
0:28:26 > 0:28:28Last year, maybe, or the year before.
0:28:28 > 0:28:30I thought, "Gosh,
0:28:30 > 0:28:34"this is exactly what I thought I would be doing when I grew up."
0:28:34 > 0:28:38You know, my vision of myself when I was small was this,
0:28:38 > 0:28:41what I'm living now.
0:28:41 > 0:28:45And it's taken all this time for me to work my way back to it.