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-How often do you have arguments about money? -Hmmm! | 0:00:02 | 0:00:05 | |
Too often for my liking. | 0:00:05 | 0:00:08 | |
I've broken the bank to buy things for her, | 0:00:12 | 0:00:15 | |
but that's because, you know, she's special. | 0:00:15 | 0:00:17 | |
It's not one of my skills, really. I don't think I'd ever be good with money. | 0:00:22 | 0:00:27 | |
# It takes two, baby | 0:00:27 | 0:00:30 | |
# It takes two, baby | 0:00:30 | 0:00:33 | |
# Me and you | 0:00:33 | 0:00:36 | |
# Just take two | 0:00:36 | 0:00:39 | |
# It takes two, baby | 0:00:39 | 0:00:43 | |
# It takes two, baby | 0:00:43 | 0:00:45 | |
# To make a dream come true | 0:00:45 | 0:00:49 | |
# Just take two. # | 0:00:49 | 0:00:52 | |
In households across the country, | 0:00:52 | 0:00:55 | |
money causes more arguments than anything else. | 0:00:55 | 0:00:58 | |
Whether you're rich or poor, young or old, a spender or a saver, | 0:00:58 | 0:01:03 | |
money affects your relationship with your partner on a daily basis. | 0:01:03 | 0:01:07 | |
So, how do couples negotiate this perilous territory, | 0:01:09 | 0:01:12 | |
and what is the recipe for financial harmony? | 0:01:12 | 0:01:16 | |
What is it, love? | 0:01:17 | 0:01:19 | |
BABY CRIES | 0:01:19 | 0:01:21 | |
Vicky is 26, and lives at home with her parents. | 0:01:33 | 0:01:36 | |
She and her fiance, Jonathan, are both doctors. | 0:01:38 | 0:01:41 | |
They've been going out for three years and are making careful plans for married life. | 0:01:45 | 0:01:50 | |
We've talked a lot about the financial aspects of how we're going to manage together, | 0:01:54 | 0:02:00 | |
both because we are the kind of people that worry about stuff | 0:02:00 | 0:02:04 | |
a long time in advance and would love to spend a good Sunday afternoon dissecting it, | 0:02:04 | 0:02:09 | |
but also because we went to a marriage prep course, | 0:02:09 | 0:02:13 | |
and they put much more uncomfortable situations in front of us | 0:02:13 | 0:02:17 | |
than just how are you going to deal financially. | 0:02:17 | 0:02:20 | |
They went quite carefully through a series of domestic chores | 0:02:20 | 0:02:24 | |
and roles in the house, and said "Who did this - your mum or your dad?" | 0:02:24 | 0:02:28 | |
So, who was the saver, who was the spender? | 0:02:28 | 0:02:31 | |
Who cleans the loo? Who does the cooking? | 0:02:31 | 0:02:32 | |
Who does the family shopping? Who plans the holidays? | 0:02:32 | 0:02:35 | |
Who runs the social aspect of your family? | 0:02:35 | 0:02:37 | |
All that kind of stuff, and then got you to compare | 0:02:37 | 0:02:40 | |
the templates of your backgrounds, and therefore what expectations | 0:02:40 | 0:02:44 | |
you have for how your roles will play out in your own marriage. | 0:02:44 | 0:02:48 | |
I was kind of amazed at how many people really hadn't talked | 0:02:50 | 0:02:53 | |
about this before they'd got to really quite close to their wedding. | 0:02:53 | 0:02:58 | |
-And you and Jonathan had talked about those things? -We'd talked about a lot of it, yeah. | 0:02:58 | 0:03:01 | |
Both our families have a great deal of shared values, | 0:03:03 | 0:03:06 | |
I think they're a similar class, and we are, kind of, singing | 0:03:06 | 0:03:11 | |
from the same song sheet, in terms of what we want to do | 0:03:11 | 0:03:14 | |
and achieve, and that's probably why Vicky and I get on so well. | 0:03:14 | 0:03:17 | |
# I love you because you understand, dear | 0:03:19 | 0:03:23 | |
# Every little thing I try to do | 0:03:27 | 0:03:32 | |
# You're always there to lend a helping hand, dear | 0:03:34 | 0:03:39 | |
# But most of all, I love you, cos you're you. # | 0:03:43 | 0:03:47 | |
Natalie and David live in Nantwich, in Cheshire. | 0:03:50 | 0:03:54 | |
They've been together eight years, and have two small boys, James and Harry. | 0:03:54 | 0:03:58 | |
# I love you for the way you never doubt me | 0:04:01 | 0:04:06 | |
# But most of all, I love you cos you're you. # | 0:04:08 | 0:04:12 | |
How did the two of you meet, and when was that? | 0:04:19 | 0:04:22 | |
That would have been 2000... | 0:04:23 | 0:04:27 | |
Yeah, all right! Beginning of 2003. | 0:04:27 | 0:04:30 | |
We met in Birkbeck Bar, | 0:04:30 | 0:04:34 | |
which is the students' union bar of Birkbeck College, in London. | 0:04:34 | 0:04:38 | |
And tell me what happened next. | 0:04:38 | 0:04:41 | |
-Erm. -Well, we accidentally fell pregnant with James. -We? I didn't! | 0:04:43 | 0:04:48 | |
-Well, you know, you were there! -Yes. | 0:04:48 | 0:04:52 | |
-So, how long after you first met was that? -About six weeks! | 0:04:54 | 0:04:57 | |
We decided that we would stay together and give it a go, | 0:05:00 | 0:05:04 | |
basically, and so we moved in together shortly after, | 0:05:04 | 0:05:08 | |
and then, about five months into my pregnancy, we got married, | 0:05:08 | 0:05:12 | |
and then James came the following February, so yeah. | 0:05:12 | 0:05:16 | |
-All a bit quick, really, but... -It was, yeah. | 0:05:18 | 0:05:20 | |
By the time we'd been together a year, we were married | 0:05:20 | 0:05:22 | |
and had had James, you know, so it was very, very quick. | 0:05:22 | 0:05:26 | |
-What is Dave like with money? -Tight. | 0:05:30 | 0:05:33 | |
Worried, paranoid, anxious. Terrible, drives me nuts. | 0:05:33 | 0:05:38 | |
-What do you want me to do? -Get one of his arms out! -His arm? OK. | 0:05:39 | 0:05:44 | |
I'll want to take the boys out, you know, to Alton Towers, | 0:05:44 | 0:05:47 | |
or wherever, you know, or Chester Zoo, and spend money on them, | 0:05:47 | 0:05:52 | |
but you kind of rein me in, and, you know. | 0:05:52 | 0:05:55 | |
Even if sometimes, I'll say "Let's go out today, and we'll do this, | 0:05:55 | 0:05:59 | |
and we'll go here, and we'll take the boys to Lego City at the | 0:05:59 | 0:06:03 | |
Trafford Centre, or something", and Dave'll say "Oh, hang on a | 0:06:03 | 0:06:06 | |
minute", and then there'll be such a kind of disagreement between us, | 0:06:06 | 0:06:10 | |
that even if I get my way, even if we go, the whole day is spoilt | 0:06:10 | 0:06:13 | |
because I know Dave is pulling his face over every single penny spent. | 0:06:13 | 0:06:18 | |
If the money's there, fine. If it isn't, hang back a bit. | 0:06:18 | 0:06:22 | |
Any fun is banned in this house! | 0:06:23 | 0:06:26 | |
Thank you(!) I did not say... | 0:06:27 | 0:06:29 | |
Fun is banned! There will be no days out for you children. | 0:06:29 | 0:06:33 | |
Eat porridge, nothing else. | 0:06:33 | 0:06:35 | |
GOSPEL CHOIR SINGS | 0:06:39 | 0:06:44 | |
Dominic and his wife, Irene, live in Aldershot, in Surrey. | 0:07:03 | 0:07:07 | |
Dominic is a pensions adviser, | 0:07:08 | 0:07:10 | |
and Irene works for the Air Accident Investigations Branch. | 0:07:10 | 0:07:15 | |
They both earn roughly the same amount of money. | 0:07:15 | 0:07:18 | |
-Where did you both grow up? -We both grew up in Ghana. | 0:07:25 | 0:07:30 | |
But, I mean, we've done a lot of, you know, growing up here in | 0:07:30 | 0:07:34 | |
the UK as well, and that's sometimes the difficult thing, | 0:07:34 | 0:07:38 | |
trying to balance our Ghanaian cultures | 0:07:38 | 0:07:41 | |
with the British cultures as well. | 0:07:41 | 0:07:44 | |
We grew up in the Catholic belief, but also in a traditional Ghanaian belief, | 0:07:45 | 0:07:49 | |
what a man should and shouldn't do, what a woman should do and shouldn't do, | 0:07:49 | 0:07:53 | |
the responsibilities that a man should have, and things like that. | 0:07:53 | 0:07:57 | |
Father. May your name be held holy. | 0:07:57 | 0:08:01 | |
Your kingdom come. | 0:08:01 | 0:08:04 | |
Give us each day our daily bread, and forgive us our sins. | 0:08:05 | 0:08:10 | |
Irene, is Dominic good with money? | 0:08:11 | 0:08:14 | |
Yes, I think he is, because... | 0:08:14 | 0:08:17 | |
I think we work hard to be... | 0:08:18 | 0:08:21 | |
We balance out, because I'm the type who just... | 0:08:23 | 0:08:27 | |
I like to be comfortable, very comfortable, and I don't mind | 0:08:27 | 0:08:30 | |
spending my last penny to be comfortable, but he's the one who, | 0:08:30 | 0:08:34 | |
you know, he's quite disciplined, and he thinks before spending. | 0:08:34 | 0:08:39 | |
I think we've just drawn each other to the middle, if you like, | 0:08:41 | 0:08:45 | |
because he was quite... I don't want to use the word stingy, | 0:08:45 | 0:08:49 | |
-but he was extremely... -Officially Mr Scrooge! | 0:08:49 | 0:08:52 | |
Yeah! | 0:08:52 | 0:08:55 | |
He was extremely disciplined with money, | 0:08:55 | 0:08:57 | |
to the extent that you work | 0:08:57 | 0:09:01 | |
and don't enjoy what comes in. | 0:09:01 | 0:09:05 | |
Were you ever in trouble with money? Did you ever overspend? | 0:09:05 | 0:09:08 | |
-Yeah, I used to overspend. -Did you have debt when you met Dominic? | 0:09:08 | 0:09:13 | |
Yes, I did, which is now paid off, | 0:09:13 | 0:09:15 | |
because I think I'm a lot more disciplined now. | 0:09:15 | 0:09:18 | |
He's the one in debt now! | 0:09:21 | 0:09:24 | |
-Yeah. -Is that true? -Yep! | 0:09:24 | 0:09:26 | |
Not so much in debt, but yeah. | 0:09:26 | 0:09:29 | |
I bought a car, so... A BMW. | 0:09:29 | 0:09:34 | |
I was trying to impress her, you know! | 0:09:34 | 0:09:37 | |
# I got my mind set on you | 0:09:37 | 0:09:40 | |
# I got my mind set on you | 0:09:40 | 0:09:43 | |
# I got my mind set on you | 0:09:43 | 0:09:45 | |
# I got my mind set on you | 0:09:45 | 0:09:50 | |
# But it's going to take money | 0:09:50 | 0:09:53 | |
# A whole lot of spending money | 0:09:53 | 0:09:56 | |
# It's going to take plenty of money | 0:09:56 | 0:10:00 | |
# To do it, to do it | 0:10:00 | 0:10:02 | |
# To do it, to do it | 0:10:02 | 0:10:04 | |
# To do it, to do it. # | 0:10:04 | 0:10:06 | |
My downfall, or my shortfall is that I like to do things | 0:10:06 | 0:10:10 | |
that put a smile on Irene's face. | 0:10:10 | 0:10:13 | |
I've broken the bank to buy things for her, | 0:10:14 | 0:10:17 | |
but that's because, you know, she's special, and I want her to | 0:10:17 | 0:10:20 | |
feel special, and I want that smile on her face when I get it to her. | 0:10:20 | 0:10:24 | |
-Do you buy presents for Dominic in the same way? -I do, yeah. | 0:10:24 | 0:10:27 | |
He's always complaining. You buy him presents and he's like, "That's too much money!" | 0:10:27 | 0:10:32 | |
So, when you buy Irene a lovely present, then it's smiles all round, | 0:10:32 | 0:10:36 | |
but when she buys you a present, you worry about the money! | 0:10:36 | 0:10:39 | |
He does, absolutely, yeah. | 0:10:39 | 0:10:42 | |
I'm not very good with accepting presents, no. | 0:10:42 | 0:10:45 | |
-Do you think you like being treated like a princess? -Yes, it's nice. | 0:10:47 | 0:10:51 | |
Not all the time, I treat him like a prince sometimes, | 0:10:53 | 0:10:57 | |
so it's both ways, not just one way all the time. | 0:10:57 | 0:11:01 | |
Not all the time, but most of the time. | 0:11:01 | 0:11:03 | |
-Yeah, but it's nice to be treated like that. -It's not just nice. | 0:11:05 | 0:11:09 | |
I think you love it, you know, you love... | 0:11:09 | 0:11:13 | |
and you deserve it, but you'd love it. | 0:11:13 | 0:11:16 | |
-Yeah, it's nice, yeah. -Do you expect it? | 0:11:16 | 0:11:19 | |
-Do you expect him to treat you like that? -Sometimes, sometimes, yeah. | 0:11:19 | 0:11:23 | |
I like to be, you know, probably sounding more Ghanaian than | 0:11:23 | 0:11:27 | |
British, but I like to be the man, I like to feel in charge, | 0:11:27 | 0:11:31 | |
and I think, some of the times, I've gone out of my way to pay for things, because I'm the man. | 0:11:31 | 0:11:37 | |
-What do you think? -Yeah. | 0:11:37 | 0:11:39 | |
You've made me pay for things, because you think I'm the man, or you say I'm the man! | 0:11:39 | 0:11:43 | |
Yeah. I like to have him, for example, | 0:11:43 | 0:11:47 | |
paying for things, because he is the man. | 0:11:47 | 0:11:50 | |
Yeah, I think, partly it's because of our upbringing, really. | 0:11:51 | 0:11:55 | |
The men are usually in charge, if you like. | 0:11:55 | 0:11:59 | |
Even if it's my money we're using to pay, | 0:11:59 | 0:12:02 | |
I don't mind giving it to him and saying, "Give it to the person, | 0:12:02 | 0:12:07 | |
"so it looks like you're paying for it", so, yeah. | 0:12:07 | 0:12:10 | |
Matt and Nicola have recently got married. | 0:12:32 | 0:12:36 | |
They live in Chesterfield, in Derbyshire. | 0:12:36 | 0:12:39 | |
-Nicola, how old are you? -20. -And Matt, how old are you? -24. | 0:12:42 | 0:12:46 | |
25th of the ninth, 1986. | 0:12:48 | 0:12:50 | |
Let's see your tattoos, Nicola. | 0:12:51 | 0:12:54 | |
-Matt's name. -And when did you get Matt's name done? | 0:12:54 | 0:12:58 | |
About two month after we'd been together! | 0:12:58 | 0:13:01 | |
We met on a two-week course at the Phoenix. | 0:13:02 | 0:13:05 | |
-It was a job seekers course? -Yeah. -Yeah. | 0:13:05 | 0:13:07 | |
And when we first met, I just loved looking at her, I did. | 0:13:07 | 0:13:11 | |
-When we kissed for the first time... -Took us two weeks to even kiss. | 0:13:11 | 0:13:15 | |
Or touch each other, hold hands or owt, | 0:13:15 | 0:13:18 | |
and then when we did kiss, my heart were pounding, | 0:13:18 | 0:13:23 | |
and you could tell, because what did you say to your mate when you come back in? | 0:13:23 | 0:13:28 | |
Felt really nice. Got a really nice feeling. | 0:13:30 | 0:13:32 | |
-And you're married. -Yep. -Yep. | 0:13:34 | 0:13:36 | |
-How long ago did you get married? -Three month ago. | 0:13:36 | 0:13:39 | |
I were 15 when I left school. I did my GCSEs, but I didn't get very good grades. | 0:13:45 | 0:13:50 | |
And how about you, Matt? | 0:13:50 | 0:13:52 | |
I was kicked out at age 15, and I didn't leave with nowt, | 0:13:52 | 0:13:54 | |
and then I went to college to finish my school year off, | 0:13:54 | 0:13:58 | |
but I didn't get nowt out of that as well. | 0:13:58 | 0:14:00 | |
And then, that's it, I lived in hostels after that. | 0:14:00 | 0:14:03 | |
-So you left home after you left school? -Yeah. | 0:14:03 | 0:14:07 | |
So since you left school, Nicola, what jobs have you had? | 0:14:07 | 0:14:12 | |
I worked at McDonald's, worked at Thorntons, did telesales. | 0:14:12 | 0:14:17 | |
-And what happened to your job at McDonald's? -I got the sack. | 0:14:17 | 0:14:20 | |
-Why were you sacked? -Swearing. -For swearing? Who did you swear at? -The boss. | 0:14:20 | 0:14:25 | |
And then you worked in Thorntons, the chocolate shop, and how long did you work there? | 0:14:28 | 0:14:33 | |
Not for long, because it were only temporary, throughout Christmas, and I got it near Christmas. | 0:14:33 | 0:14:37 | |
I were only there about three week, I think, something like that. | 0:14:37 | 0:14:40 | |
And then you did telesales for a bit. Did you like that? | 0:14:40 | 0:14:43 | |
No, not really, but I did it. I just wanted a job. | 0:14:43 | 0:14:47 | |
-And what happened to that job? -I got laid off. Only temporary, so... | 0:14:47 | 0:14:52 | |
-And so, when did you last have a job? -About two year ago. | 0:14:54 | 0:14:59 | |
So, Matt, tell me about jobs you've had since you left school. | 0:15:01 | 0:15:04 | |
One. | 0:15:04 | 0:15:06 | |
Working in bar work, and that were about two year ago, so if I add | 0:15:06 | 0:15:10 | |
up all the time we've been signing on, it would be about six year. | 0:15:10 | 0:15:14 | |
Six years altogether. | 0:15:14 | 0:15:15 | |
-You're both on benefits now. What benefits are you on? -Jobseeker's allowance. | 0:15:18 | 0:15:23 | |
-OK. And you too, Nicola? -Yep. -And how much do you get? | 0:15:23 | 0:15:28 | |
-It varies, don't it? -Yeah. -Between 185 to 200 a fortnight. | 0:15:30 | 0:15:36 | |
-So it's about 100 quid a week, or a bit less. -Yeah. | 0:15:36 | 0:15:39 | |
So you pay your bills, and then how much is left in your hand? | 0:15:42 | 0:15:45 | |
-It varies from 40 to 60, don't it? -Yeah. -A fortnight? -Yeah. -Yeah. | 0:15:46 | 0:15:51 | |
Save yourself a fortune this week, you don't need to spend one. | 0:15:52 | 0:15:57 | |
-What can you buy for that? -Bought cheap stuff. -What kind of things? | 0:15:57 | 0:16:02 | |
Cheap gammon, bacon, spaghetti bolognese, cheap meat. | 0:16:02 | 0:16:07 | |
That's all, we've just kept buying cheap meat, frozen stuff, | 0:16:07 | 0:16:11 | |
I got a packet of frozen veg for 36p. | 0:16:11 | 0:16:15 | |
Just buy stuff like that, what's reet cheap. | 0:16:15 | 0:16:17 | |
And so some stuff don't taste nice, does it, but... | 0:16:19 | 0:16:22 | |
-So I cook, you wash, don't you? -I wash the pots, after he's done. | 0:16:26 | 0:16:31 | |
-And Nicola, is Matt a good cook? -Yeah. Not bad! | 0:16:31 | 0:16:35 | |
You like my spaghetti bolognese, don't you? | 0:16:36 | 0:16:40 | |
-Do you want your sweets? -Yeah. -Which ones do you want? | 0:16:40 | 0:16:44 | |
Because I'm cooking, I'm always thinking about the meals | 0:16:48 | 0:16:51 | |
and what we can get, but she don't, she goes "Oh, let's get some | 0:16:51 | 0:16:54 | |
"crisps, let's get some chocolate, let's go and get some sweets!" | 0:16:54 | 0:16:59 | |
It does bring you down, you're in a vicious circle, | 0:17:03 | 0:17:06 | |
because you only get this amount of money, and you spend it | 0:17:06 | 0:17:09 | |
on what you can, and even if you waste it, you're, like, "Damn". | 0:17:09 | 0:17:15 | |
"Got to wait two week, now." | 0:17:16 | 0:17:18 | |
Cheers. | 0:17:19 | 0:17:21 | |
# All I really want is money in my pocket | 0:17:21 | 0:17:23 | |
# Cash in my hand, oh, skrilla in my wallet | 0:17:23 | 0:17:26 | |
# All I really want is money in my pocket | 0:17:26 | 0:17:30 | |
# Cash in my hand, yeah, skrilla in my wallet, yeah. # | 0:17:30 | 0:17:34 | |
My grandfather started an East India company, | 0:17:37 | 0:17:40 | |
and they had a lot of furniture from India, | 0:17:40 | 0:17:43 | |
and you can see that rather elaborate cupboard, there. | 0:17:43 | 0:17:47 | |
I had an aunt who was quite a famous painter. | 0:17:47 | 0:17:50 | |
She painted my mother, which is up there, | 0:17:52 | 0:17:54 | |
and funnily enough, Mother is wearing an Indian shawl, | 0:17:54 | 0:17:58 | |
which my grandfather got from somewhere, and as you can see, | 0:17:58 | 0:18:02 | |
she's sitting on an Indian stool, and I can show you the Indian | 0:18:02 | 0:18:06 | |
stool in the dining room, which the cat's sitting on. | 0:18:06 | 0:18:08 | |
First of all, let me ask you both how old you are. | 0:18:10 | 0:18:13 | |
-Chantal? -I'm 71. -And I'm 77. No, I'm not, I'm 78, I'm sorry! | 0:18:15 | 0:18:21 | |
We've been together 48 years this year. 48 years in October. | 0:18:22 | 0:18:26 | |
-How old were you when you married Eddie? -23. | 0:18:26 | 0:18:29 | |
-And then, how old were you when you had your first child? -24. | 0:18:30 | 0:18:34 | |
-And then, you had how many children altogether? -Four altogether. | 0:18:34 | 0:18:38 | |
Would you have wanted a job, do you think? | 0:18:40 | 0:18:43 | |
Well, what you've never had you don't miss. | 0:18:43 | 0:18:46 | |
Chantal and Eddie live in the Home Counties. | 0:18:46 | 0:18:50 | |
Eddie has had a long and distinguished career in finance, | 0:18:50 | 0:18:53 | |
and aged 78, he's still working. | 0:18:53 | 0:18:56 | |
How much is your annual income now? | 0:18:57 | 0:18:59 | |
Oh, it's not very large. | 0:19:01 | 0:19:03 | |
In total it's probably about, what, 120,000, something like that. | 0:19:03 | 0:19:08 | |
How much is this house worth, roughly? | 0:19:10 | 0:19:12 | |
Well, it's difficult to say. | 0:19:12 | 0:19:15 | |
-At the moment. -At the moment. | 0:19:15 | 0:19:18 | |
My guess is somewhere between 1.5 and two million. | 0:19:18 | 0:19:22 | |
Without sounding pompous or arrogant, one is very grateful for what one's got. | 0:19:23 | 0:19:28 | |
-Do the two of you have a joint account? -No. -Why not? | 0:19:32 | 0:19:37 | |
Why not? I don't agree with a joint account. | 0:19:37 | 0:19:40 | |
I honestly don't want to know what Chantal spends. | 0:19:40 | 0:19:44 | |
-Well, you do know, sometimes, because I tell you! -Yes. | 0:19:44 | 0:19:48 | |
No, I think it's much better to be independent. | 0:19:48 | 0:19:50 | |
-You've supported Chantal all this time. -Yes. | 0:19:50 | 0:19:52 | |
So when you say it's important for her to be independent, what does that mean? | 0:19:52 | 0:19:55 | |
Well, it means I give her a certain amount, | 0:19:55 | 0:19:58 | |
and I've always given her a certain amount of money per month, | 0:19:58 | 0:20:00 | |
and, also, I have passed on a certain amount of capital to her. | 0:20:00 | 0:20:03 | |
How much money goes into Chantal's account every month? | 0:20:04 | 0:20:07 | |
-About eight... -£900. -£900. | 0:20:07 | 0:20:12 | |
And what's that nominally for, that money? | 0:20:12 | 0:20:15 | |
Well, food. | 0:20:16 | 0:20:18 | |
You know, I think it's important to eat nice things, to eat well, | 0:20:18 | 0:20:23 | |
I'm a keen cook. Most of my clothes, the odd present. | 0:20:23 | 0:20:27 | |
If there were expenses in a particular month that meant | 0:20:27 | 0:20:30 | |
that you were spending more than your 900, I don't know, if all | 0:20:30 | 0:20:33 | |
the grandchildren had birthdays, and you went out and bought all | 0:20:33 | 0:20:36 | |
their birthday presents, and there was no money left, what happens then? | 0:20:36 | 0:20:39 | |
Well, if I spend money which is outside the routine, | 0:20:39 | 0:20:44 | |
if you go through my bank statements it's always Sainsbury's, Waitrose, | 0:20:44 | 0:20:47 | |
then if it's a present, if it's Christmas, I present him with a bill of the extra money I spent. | 0:20:47 | 0:20:53 | |
-So then, Eddie, you then reimburse Chantal, do you? -Yes, yes. | 0:20:53 | 0:20:56 | |
But is there anything that either of you spend money on that you wouldn't tell the other person? | 0:20:56 | 0:21:01 | |
Well, I don't think Eddie cares what I spend on the hairdresser, | 0:21:01 | 0:21:05 | |
or that sort of thing, no, but there's nothing I would keep secret. | 0:21:05 | 0:21:09 | |
-And what about you, Eddie? -No, I never discuss what I spend. | 0:21:11 | 0:21:15 | |
I don't have to know everything that Eddie spends, it's none of my business. | 0:21:15 | 0:21:19 | |
It is a traditional setup. It's a lack of autonomy, in a way. | 0:21:22 | 0:21:25 | |
I'm perfectly comfortable on relying on his expertise and intelligence, | 0:21:25 | 0:21:30 | |
and I know that he will do the best for the two of us. | 0:21:30 | 0:21:34 | |
Our daily life is fairly harmonious. | 0:21:35 | 0:21:38 | |
I think people tend to argue if they're on top of each other, | 0:21:40 | 0:21:44 | |
but we live fairly separate lives. | 0:21:44 | 0:21:47 | |
-We have space. -We've got space and got our own interests, | 0:21:47 | 0:21:51 | |
and I've still got quite a lot of work. | 0:21:51 | 0:21:53 | |
MUSIC: "For The Love Of Money" by The O'Jays | 0:21:54 | 0:21:57 | |
# Some people got to have it | 0:22:07 | 0:22:11 | |
# Some people really need it | 0:22:12 | 0:22:16 | |
# You want to do things, do things | 0:22:16 | 0:22:18 | |
# Do things, good things with it, yeah... # | 0:22:18 | 0:22:23 | |
Nick and Keith live in Sheffield, and have been together for three years. | 0:22:26 | 0:22:30 | |
Keith, tell me what Nick is like with money. | 0:22:32 | 0:22:36 | |
Erm, Nick with money, erm... Frivolous, I would think. Yeah. | 0:22:36 | 0:22:41 | |
Yeah, he has money, he spends money, he buys things, | 0:22:43 | 0:22:47 | |
gadgety things, things to me that, probably, he never uses. | 0:22:47 | 0:22:53 | |
Buys loads of clothes. | 0:22:54 | 0:22:57 | |
-How many T-shirts does he have? -Oh, God, loads! | 0:22:57 | 0:23:01 | |
Well over, got to be over a hundred. Must be over a hundred. | 0:23:01 | 0:23:04 | |
-They've got a wardrobe full... -Is that true? You've got more than 100 T-shirts? | 0:23:04 | 0:23:07 | |
-Yeah, it might be a bit more than 100. -No, I don't think so. -It can't be far off. | 0:23:07 | 0:23:11 | |
Nick, can you characterise for me what Keith is like with money? | 0:23:12 | 0:23:16 | |
Well, he's very, erm, paranoid about money. | 0:23:18 | 0:23:23 | |
He, sort of, gets... | 0:23:23 | 0:23:28 | |
It does go in fits and starts, but he sometimes gets very, | 0:23:28 | 0:23:32 | |
very antsy about not having enough money. | 0:23:32 | 0:23:35 | |
We have a joint account. We've got a joint current account, | 0:23:35 | 0:23:38 | |
and we've got a joint credit card that Keith manages. | 0:23:38 | 0:23:42 | |
He collects all the receipts and keeps them for a month, | 0:23:44 | 0:23:47 | |
and then when the credit card bill arrives, then he sits there | 0:23:47 | 0:23:51 | |
and ticks it all up, and I'm like, what are you doing? | 0:23:51 | 0:23:54 | |
And then he goes mental for, like, "What's this? | 0:23:56 | 0:24:00 | |
"Three pounds unaccounted for?" | 0:24:00 | 0:24:04 | |
And then he'll ask me, "Have you been to such and such a place and spent three quid?" | 0:24:04 | 0:24:08 | |
And I'm like, no. "You have!" | 0:24:08 | 0:24:11 | |
And, from there, it goes into a bit of a frenzy. | 0:24:11 | 0:24:15 | |
-I do all the shopping for food. -Yeah. | 0:24:16 | 0:24:18 | |
-I don't think you ever go into a supermarket, do you? -No. | 0:24:18 | 0:24:22 | |
And are you happy with the amount Nick spends on food? | 0:24:22 | 0:24:25 | |
-Erm, kind of yes and no. -Liar! | 0:24:25 | 0:24:28 | |
If you were buying eggs, what kind of eggs would you buy, Nick? | 0:24:29 | 0:24:32 | |
I would buy free range, and you would buy the battery... | 0:24:32 | 0:24:34 | |
Eggs, to me, is just like eggs, | 0:24:34 | 0:24:36 | |
but I am a fish and chip and or a pie, chips and peas man. | 0:24:36 | 0:24:41 | |
So, does it annoy you, Keith, | 0:24:44 | 0:24:46 | |
that Nick comes back with free range eggs, when you know battery eggs are cheaper? | 0:24:46 | 0:24:50 | |
-Erm... -Do you just think he's wasting money? Come on, be honest, Keith! | 0:24:50 | 0:24:55 | |
I'll be quite honest, I do look at receipts and think, really? You could have got that cheaper! | 0:24:55 | 0:25:01 | |
I spend quite a lot of money from my own account on food, | 0:25:01 | 0:25:04 | |
because then I can throw the receipt away, so he doesn't actually see it! | 0:25:04 | 0:25:08 | |
So you're secretly shopping for food that you know Keith would disallow, is that right? | 0:25:08 | 0:25:12 | |
-Not necessarily, but... -Feels like that to me! | 0:25:12 | 0:25:16 | |
But then does Keith not say "Hang on a minute, | 0:25:16 | 0:25:20 | |
"there's a jar of oyster sauce here, and I haven't seen a receipt for it?" | 0:25:20 | 0:25:23 | |
Oh, yeah, he'll sometimes just open the freezer door to get something, | 0:25:23 | 0:25:26 | |
and he'll be like "What's all this?" | 0:25:26 | 0:25:27 | |
We've fought more about money than anything else. | 0:25:29 | 0:25:34 | |
Can you see yourself resolving your differences any more, | 0:25:34 | 0:25:39 | |
or do you think you've come as far as you can come, and you'll just carry on arguing? | 0:25:39 | 0:25:43 | |
I don't think they'll ever be resolved entirely. | 0:25:43 | 0:25:46 | |
The test of the resolve would be if I start managing the current account and credit card! | 0:25:46 | 0:25:51 | |
Could that ever happen? | 0:25:51 | 0:25:53 | |
That would not happen, I could not cope with that! | 0:25:53 | 0:25:55 | |
That would literally... | 0:25:55 | 0:25:57 | |
I couldn't cope with it, and that is true, | 0:25:57 | 0:26:00 | |
I could not cope with something like that. | 0:26:00 | 0:26:03 | |
I'd be panicking. I'd have sleepless nights, I'd be checking, I'd be pestering him, | 0:26:03 | 0:26:07 | |
"Show me the statements, show me this, show me that." | 0:26:07 | 0:26:10 | |
No, I could not tolerate that. I couldn't cope with it. | 0:26:10 | 0:26:14 | |
It's a way of thinking, and it's like we said earlier, if I went | 0:26:14 | 0:26:18 | |
to get a tenner out, or 20 quid out, I have to have a mini statement. | 0:26:18 | 0:26:23 | |
Some people might call it an OCD. | 0:26:23 | 0:26:26 | |
-I don't know, but... -How often are you getting a mini statement? | 0:26:28 | 0:26:31 | |
Every day? | 0:26:34 | 0:26:35 | |
Is it really everyday, Keith? | 0:26:36 | 0:26:38 | |
Not on a Sunday! | 0:26:41 | 0:26:42 | |
-So, six days a week. -Most days. | 0:26:48 | 0:26:51 | |
-The money is always there, so why would you do it? -And what's the answer to that? | 0:26:51 | 0:26:54 | |
-I don't know. -You just feel better when you've done it? -Yeah. Yeah. | 0:26:59 | 0:27:02 | |
It's always right, so why... | 0:27:02 | 0:27:05 | |
-And you always know before you do it what it's going to say? -Yeah. | 0:27:05 | 0:27:08 | |
My dad was a steelworker, my mum was a school dinnerlady, and money was tight. | 0:27:14 | 0:27:19 | |
So you've got the same attitude your parents had? | 0:27:19 | 0:27:24 | |
Erm, yeah. Yeah. | 0:27:24 | 0:27:27 | |
Presumably, though, you're much better off than your parents were. | 0:27:27 | 0:27:29 | |
Are you? | 0:27:31 | 0:27:32 | |
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you know. | 0:27:33 | 0:27:36 | |
But you don't feel it, really? | 0:27:36 | 0:27:38 | |
I think that's true. I think that's very, very true. | 0:27:38 | 0:27:41 | |
Do you wish you weren't like this, Keith? | 0:27:44 | 0:27:46 | |
That's a good question, erm... | 0:27:52 | 0:27:54 | |
Yeah, yeah. I think it would be nice to be a bit more like Nick. | 0:27:56 | 0:28:02 | |
I'm getting better, I'm getting there! | 0:28:03 | 0:28:06 | |
If you'd like to pop the card in for me. | 0:28:20 | 0:28:22 | |
Dominic, Irene came back with some bags this morning. | 0:28:25 | 0:28:28 | |
Has she shown you what she bought? | 0:28:28 | 0:28:30 | |
She tried to, but I didn't want to know! | 0:28:32 | 0:28:34 | |
The prices and things are what really gets to me, sometimes. | 0:28:34 | 0:28:39 | |
-So, do you know how much she spent this morning? -No. | 0:28:39 | 0:28:42 | |
-Would you like the receipt in the bag? -Please. | 0:28:42 | 0:28:44 | |
-Are you going to tell him? -No! | 0:28:44 | 0:28:46 | |
-She doesn't realise that I've got a way of finding out! -How? | 0:28:47 | 0:28:51 | |
-Sometimes I have a look at either your bank statement or my bank statement! -Really? | 0:28:51 | 0:28:57 | |
Or maybe you left the receipt. Normally, you leave the receipts in the bag. | 0:28:57 | 0:29:01 | |
-You're not allowed to look at my bank statement. -Yeah, I am! | 0:29:01 | 0:29:05 | |
I look at your bank statement all the time anyway! | 0:29:05 | 0:29:09 | |
Did you not know that, Irene, that he's checking your bank statements? | 0:29:09 | 0:29:12 | |
Not behind my back. | 0:29:12 | 0:29:13 | |
And, Irene, do you know, day-to-day, | 0:29:16 | 0:29:18 | |
how much money Dominic's got in his account? | 0:29:18 | 0:29:20 | |
I don't, no. | 0:29:20 | 0:29:22 | |
He's got quite a few accounts, and I know he's... | 0:29:22 | 0:29:26 | |
Should I say? | 0:29:26 | 0:29:29 | |
THEY SPEAK A GHANAIAN LANGUAGE | 0:29:31 | 0:29:34 | |
Sorry about that. | 0:29:42 | 0:29:43 | |
She's questioning about my account now, it's all your fault! | 0:29:45 | 0:29:49 | |
One thing that she doesn't notice is that, sometimes, I try to, | 0:29:49 | 0:29:53 | |
you know, when I don't think, when she says "Oh, we should get this, we should get this" | 0:29:53 | 0:29:57 | |
and I don't think we should, sometimes I tell her "Oh, no, I'm a bit broke this month, | 0:29:57 | 0:30:01 | |
"so let's wait". | 0:30:01 | 0:30:03 | |
I shouldn't have said this, but that's one of the reasons why she says about your overdraft, | 0:30:03 | 0:30:08 | |
and things like that, because sometimes I make her think that, you know, we have to be careful. | 0:30:08 | 0:30:13 | |
-OK, so you pretended, you pretend. -He does, I thought he was, yeah! | 0:30:13 | 0:30:18 | |
I think she'll be happier, whether buying a shirt or buying something for the house, | 0:30:18 | 0:30:23 | |
or financial security, I think she'll be happier in herself. | 0:30:23 | 0:30:27 | |
-So you're lying for her own good, is that right? -Yes! | 0:30:27 | 0:30:32 | |
But it's not like a big lie, | 0:30:32 | 0:30:35 | |
-it's a lie for our own good. -OK, for the mutual good. -Yeah! | 0:30:35 | 0:30:42 | |
# It's not about the money, money, money | 0:30:42 | 0:30:44 | |
# We don't need your money, money, money | 0:30:44 | 0:30:47 | |
# We just want to make the world dance | 0:30:47 | 0:30:49 | |
# Forget about the price tag | 0:30:49 | 0:30:52 | |
# Ain't about the cha-ching, cha-ching | 0:30:52 | 0:30:55 | |
# Ain't about the ba-bling ba-bling | 0:30:55 | 0:30:58 | |
# Want to make the world dance | 0:30:58 | 0:31:01 | |
# Forget about the price tag. # | 0:31:01 | 0:31:03 | |
So, you built the toilet, did you, Aris? | 0:31:07 | 0:31:09 | |
I did, it's the first thing I've ever built, really. | 0:31:09 | 0:31:12 | |
-Did you build it on your own? -I did. It's palatial, isn't it? | 0:31:12 | 0:31:15 | |
Well, you haven't been inside, have you? You haven't risked it. | 0:31:15 | 0:31:18 | |
No, I'm really hoping I'm not going to need it! | 0:31:18 | 0:31:20 | |
I love poo and I love compost, and Marianne loves growing things, | 0:31:22 | 0:31:26 | |
so I make the beds and the food for them and she grows stuff. | 0:31:26 | 0:31:30 | |
# Ain't about the cha-ching, cha-ching | 0:31:31 | 0:31:34 | |
# Ain't about the ba-bling, ba-bling | 0:31:34 | 0:31:36 | |
# Want to make the world dance | 0:31:36 | 0:31:39 | |
# Forget about the price tag | 0:31:39 | 0:31:43 | |
# Ahhhh | 0:31:43 | 0:31:45 | |
# Ahhhh | 0:31:45 | 0:31:48 | |
# Ahhhh | 0:31:48 | 0:31:51 | |
# Ahhhh... # | 0:31:51 | 0:31:52 | |
-Aris, where are you from? -The womb. I miss it terribly. Terribly. I try to get back. | 0:31:52 | 0:31:58 | |
Aris, don't waste time now, it's going to take a long time already! | 0:31:58 | 0:32:01 | |
I came out of the womb in California, | 0:32:01 | 0:32:04 | |
and that's where I was born and raised, really. | 0:32:04 | 0:32:07 | |
COWS MOO | 0:32:07 | 0:32:09 | |
Aris and his wife, Marianne, | 0:32:09 | 0:32:10 | |
live in a caravan in an eco-community in Wales with their three children. | 0:32:10 | 0:32:15 | |
They've purchased a plot of land for £35,000, | 0:32:17 | 0:32:21 | |
and plan to spend another 35,000 building somewhere to live. | 0:32:21 | 0:32:25 | |
-Where's the 70,000 coming from? -My life savings. | 0:32:27 | 0:32:32 | |
How much were your life savings, Marianne? | 0:32:32 | 0:32:34 | |
-About 100,000. -She doesn't know! -Well, it changes! | 0:32:35 | 0:32:39 | |
Of course it changes, we keep spending it, you know! | 0:32:39 | 0:32:42 | |
Hey, look at this spider! Look at this one, look! | 0:32:42 | 0:32:45 | |
-Where did £100,000 come from? -I've always been a saver. | 0:32:45 | 0:32:49 | |
I've always saved my money, had my piggy bank, | 0:32:49 | 0:32:52 | |
and I was always given money as a child. | 0:32:52 | 0:32:54 | |
In my family, there was, very much, this culture of the money has to come down, you know. | 0:32:54 | 0:32:58 | |
It's when you're young that you need the most. My grandmother always says when you're young, | 0:32:58 | 0:33:02 | |
you need the money, and once you're older, you're established, | 0:33:02 | 0:33:05 | |
and things are kind of up and running, | 0:33:05 | 0:33:07 | |
so I've definitely been supported financially by my family. | 0:33:07 | 0:33:13 | |
I did not have a family to give me money. | 0:33:16 | 0:33:18 | |
-My father used to borrow money. -And you hadn't been taught how to save. | 0:33:18 | 0:33:21 | |
I had not been taught how to save, and I'm very much about experience. | 0:33:21 | 0:33:24 | |
As soon as I get enough money to go somewhere, experience something, | 0:33:24 | 0:33:27 | |
I will go somewhere and experience something. | 0:33:27 | 0:33:29 | |
Yeah, but let's not pretend I didn't have experiences, too. | 0:33:29 | 0:33:31 | |
It's not like I just sat at home, you know, fatly, on my fat cushion of money. | 0:33:31 | 0:33:34 | |
-No, no. -No, I mean, you know. -No, I'm not saying you did. | 0:33:34 | 0:33:38 | |
We're talking about me, now! But no one ever gave me money. | 0:33:38 | 0:33:42 | |
-OK, and we'll have courgette supper, OK? -That's for me. | 0:33:42 | 0:33:46 | |
And do you know how much you're spending on food a week, roughly? | 0:33:46 | 0:33:49 | |
I'd probably say about £100 a week. | 0:33:49 | 0:33:51 | |
-Yeah. -That sounds about right, but I don't actually know. -Food's pricey! | 0:33:53 | 0:33:57 | |
Food is cheaper than it has ever been in the history of the marketplace. | 0:33:57 | 0:34:00 | |
-Food is a significant expense! -It is! | 0:34:00 | 0:34:04 | |
People have never paid so little for food. | 0:34:04 | 0:34:07 | |
Food is a significant expense for us. | 0:34:07 | 0:34:09 | |
It is our second greatest expense. | 0:34:09 | 0:34:11 | |
It's true! It is! | 0:34:11 | 0:34:13 | |
Would you say the two of you have different attitudes to money? | 0:34:18 | 0:34:21 | |
I know what it is, but... | 0:34:23 | 0:34:25 | |
Yes, I would say we have different attitudes towards money. | 0:34:25 | 0:34:28 | |
-In what way? -I like to have it, I like to keep track of it. | 0:34:28 | 0:34:33 | |
And, Marianne, what is Aris like with money? | 0:34:33 | 0:34:36 | |
When he's got it, he spends it. | 0:34:36 | 0:34:37 | |
When I've got it, I spend it. | 0:34:41 | 0:34:42 | |
-But when you've got it, you spend it as well. -No, darling. | 0:34:42 | 0:34:45 | |
I've got all those savings, I didn't spend them. | 0:34:45 | 0:34:47 | |
-I guess the thing is I never have much, that's the thing, so... -No, because you spend it. | 0:34:47 | 0:34:52 | |
-What have I bought, for example? -I don't know, I don't know! | 0:34:52 | 0:34:56 | |
That tambourine. | 0:34:56 | 0:34:57 | |
-I did buy a tambourine! -That was ridiculous! | 0:34:57 | 0:35:00 | |
That was when I was really into Samba drumming. It's a pandeiro, actually. | 0:35:00 | 0:35:03 | |
But I'm going to learn how to play it, one day! | 0:35:07 | 0:35:10 | |
Which of you has a healthier attitude to money, do you think? | 0:35:12 | 0:35:14 | |
I've got more. | 0:35:17 | 0:35:19 | |
That's simply stated! So I must be right! | 0:35:20 | 0:35:24 | |
Well, OK, you know, we've both been alive 38 years, | 0:35:24 | 0:35:28 | |
we've had different experiences, we've been given different amounts. | 0:35:28 | 0:35:31 | |
"I have more." How is your money separate from mine at all? | 0:35:31 | 0:35:35 | |
We've both worked, we've both lived our lives, | 0:35:35 | 0:35:37 | |
when we've reached this point, I have got more! | 0:35:37 | 0:35:40 | |
Why is it your money, and not the family's money, | 0:35:41 | 0:35:45 | |
or Aris's money, or everybody's money? | 0:35:45 | 0:35:48 | |
Good question. | 0:35:48 | 0:35:49 | |
I saved it. | 0:35:50 | 0:35:51 | |
-It was my work, saving that money! -And well done! | 0:35:53 | 0:35:57 | |
Well done and thank you, really! Thank you. Well done. | 0:35:57 | 0:36:01 | |
# Wise men say | 0:36:03 | 0:36:06 | |
# Only fools rush in | 0:36:10 | 0:36:14 | |
# But I can't help | 0:36:18 | 0:36:22 | |
# Falling in love with you. # | 0:36:23 | 0:36:29 | |
All that I am, I give to you. | 0:36:30 | 0:36:33 | |
All that I am, I give to you. | 0:36:33 | 0:36:34 | |
And all that I have, I share with you. | 0:36:34 | 0:36:37 | |
And all that I have, I share with you. | 0:36:37 | 0:36:39 | |
For richer, for poorer. | 0:36:39 | 0:36:40 | |
For richer, for poorer. | 0:36:40 | 0:36:42 | |
In sickness, and in health. | 0:36:42 | 0:36:44 | |
In sickness, and in health. | 0:36:44 | 0:36:45 | |
To love and to cherish. | 0:36:45 | 0:36:47 | |
To love and to cherish. | 0:36:47 | 0:36:49 | |
Till death us do part. | 0:36:49 | 0:36:50 | |
Till death us do part. | 0:36:50 | 0:36:53 | |
# Falling in love with... | 0:36:53 | 0:36:57 | |
You may kiss the bride. | 0:36:58 | 0:37:00 | |
# ..You. # | 0:37:00 | 0:37:02 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:37:02 | 0:37:06 | |
Show me some of your wedding presents. | 0:37:10 | 0:37:13 | |
OK, we have our lovely, erm, coffee maker, | 0:37:14 | 0:37:19 | |
for our weekend coffee, which we relish, we had this morning, very nice. | 0:37:19 | 0:37:24 | |
Vicky, show me your favourite present. | 0:37:26 | 0:37:29 | |
Oh, my favourite present is from my uncle, | 0:37:29 | 0:37:31 | |
which is this momma, for the feeding of the 5000, and also, | 0:37:33 | 0:37:38 | |
if things get bad between us, this is my weapon of choice for hitting Jonathan over the head! | 0:37:38 | 0:37:44 | |
The toaster. | 0:37:45 | 0:37:47 | |
Oh yes, that was from one of the bridesmaids, who riffed on | 0:37:47 | 0:37:51 | |
the theme, and said that we were the best couple since sliced bread. | 0:37:51 | 0:37:53 | |
Very pleased with our, kind of, erm, clock, | 0:37:55 | 0:37:59 | |
which came with the message "We hope you have a very happy moo-riage, | 0:37:59 | 0:38:03 | |
"we are udderly delighted for you." | 0:38:03 | 0:38:05 | |
-There's just been some terrible punning! -We've got some very droll friends. | 0:38:07 | 0:38:10 | |
-How did you pay for your honeymoon in Skegness? -It was a wedding present. | 0:38:14 | 0:38:18 | |
-Was it? Who gave you that? -My mum's best friend. | 0:38:18 | 0:38:22 | |
She said "Oh, I'll give you the caravan for the week." | 0:38:23 | 0:38:26 | |
I thought "All right, then! We'll take it!" | 0:38:26 | 0:38:29 | |
I'm not bothered where it is, as long as it's away from Chesterfield for a week, I'm not bothered! | 0:38:29 | 0:38:34 | |
And when we were down in Skegness we were happy, weren't we? | 0:38:34 | 0:38:37 | |
Most happiest week of our lives, because we weren't here, | 0:38:37 | 0:38:41 | |
but then on the last day, you're thinking "Oh, I've got to go back to it." | 0:38:41 | 0:38:44 | |
-What do you do most days? Are you often stuck at home? -Yeah. | 0:38:50 | 0:38:54 | |
-And what do you do? Watch the telly? -Yeah. -Yeah. | 0:38:54 | 0:38:58 | |
-You watch the telly a lot? -It's boring. | 0:38:58 | 0:39:00 | |
-You get bored? -Yeah. -And then you do Xbox, Matt, do you? | 0:39:01 | 0:39:06 | |
-I did, but not now. It eats electric, so... -Does it? | 0:39:06 | 0:39:10 | |
So it was costing you too much in electricity? | 0:39:10 | 0:39:13 | |
Yeah, so I only go on it now and then, don't I? Only at night time. | 0:39:13 | 0:39:18 | |
When I'm asleep! | 0:39:18 | 0:39:19 | |
I'm already thinking now that my life sucks, and it does, because it's boring. | 0:39:27 | 0:39:32 | |
Sometimes I stay in bed until 11 or 12 o'clock, because what's the point in getting up? | 0:39:34 | 0:39:39 | |
And it's just ridiculous. | 0:39:40 | 0:39:42 | |
I have said to you, haven't I, that I'm getting sick of it? | 0:39:42 | 0:39:45 | |
All I say is "I'm sick of this life", so she thinks that I'm | 0:39:45 | 0:39:48 | |
sick of her, but it's not, it's just the situation that we're in. | 0:39:48 | 0:39:52 | |
I just hope that we'll get a job, | 0:39:56 | 0:39:59 | |
because I don't think that we can keep... | 0:39:59 | 0:40:02 | |
If we've got another five years of this, I don't we'll be together. | 0:40:02 | 0:40:06 | |
I'm hoping, as soon as she gets pregnant, I'm hoping to get a job then. | 0:40:08 | 0:40:13 | |
-What would life be like if you had a baby? -Different. | 0:40:16 | 0:40:20 | |
Instead of us sitting about, lazing about, or not doing nothing, | 0:40:20 | 0:40:25 | |
with a kid, we'd be doing something, even if it's changing a nappy, | 0:40:25 | 0:40:30 | |
it's just breaking that horrible cycle that we're in. | 0:40:30 | 0:40:32 | |
It's just something new, something different. | 0:40:32 | 0:40:34 | |
And Nicola, how do you feel about the future? | 0:40:34 | 0:40:37 | |
You want to be a mum, but if the two of you don't get jobs, | 0:40:37 | 0:40:42 | |
do you think about that sometimes, what that will be like? | 0:40:42 | 0:40:45 | |
Sometimes. | 0:40:45 | 0:40:47 | |
And are you worried about that? | 0:40:48 | 0:40:50 | |
Yep. | 0:40:53 | 0:40:54 | |
Tell me what you think about that, when you think about the future. | 0:40:55 | 0:40:58 | |
I reckon we'll split up if we don't get a job. | 0:40:58 | 0:41:00 | |
You see each other every single day. | 0:41:05 | 0:41:08 | |
You eat, you live, you breathe, everything you do, you do together. | 0:41:08 | 0:41:12 | |
Because I see her all day, I can't wait to get away from her, | 0:41:14 | 0:41:18 | |
and I know it's horrible, but that's the way it is, | 0:41:18 | 0:41:21 | |
and I can't get away from her because we've got no money, | 0:41:21 | 0:41:24 | |
so it's either I've got to stick with it, or I leave. | 0:41:24 | 0:41:28 | |
-What do you think, Nicola? -The same. | 0:41:30 | 0:41:33 | |
-But you'll still in love with each other at the moment. -Yeah, at the moment. | 0:41:34 | 0:41:38 | |
-What qualifications or education do you have? -GCSEs, and that's it. | 0:42:00 | 0:42:05 | |
-Erm, yep. -And what about you, Dave? | 0:42:08 | 0:42:10 | |
OK, I stayed around in education for quite a while, | 0:42:10 | 0:42:13 | |
so I've got GCSEs, A-levels, I've got a Bachelor's in science, biochemistry, | 0:42:13 | 0:42:19 | |
I've got a Masters degree in structural biology, | 0:42:19 | 0:42:22 | |
and I've got a PhD, also in structural biology. | 0:42:22 | 0:42:25 | |
Natalie works in a lawyer's office, and Dave is a research scientist | 0:42:28 | 0:42:32 | |
at Manchester University doing biomedical research into arthritis. | 0:42:32 | 0:42:37 | |
Dave is the primary breadwinner, and earns £34,000 a year. | 0:42:39 | 0:42:43 | |
Dave's, kind of, really into his career, | 0:42:47 | 0:42:49 | |
and that's his pride and joy, in a kind of strange way. | 0:42:49 | 0:42:53 | |
I mean, it's not just a job to him. He is immersed in science. | 0:42:53 | 0:42:58 | |
His birthday is actually in a couple of weeks, | 0:42:58 | 0:43:00 | |
but his mum has bought him a ticket to a science conference | 0:43:00 | 0:43:05 | |
in Manchester for two days, and he goes on marches... | 0:43:05 | 0:43:11 | |
I would have done. | 0:43:11 | 0:43:12 | |
Well, you would have gone on this march recently, | 0:43:12 | 0:43:14 | |
but you have done that before, gone on marches and things like that. | 0:43:14 | 0:43:18 | |
-That was against the Iraq war. -The war? | 0:43:18 | 0:43:21 | |
-Yeah, that's not really sciencey! -Yeah, but it's a nerd thing to do. | 0:43:21 | 0:43:25 | |
Not really! It's an activist thing. | 0:43:25 | 0:43:27 | |
Dave's got a career, and he's worked really hard for it, | 0:43:29 | 0:43:32 | |
but, you know, his career is a means to an end, that's it, | 0:43:32 | 0:43:37 | |
that's what he's there for, the love of the job, the career. | 0:43:37 | 0:43:40 | |
-The money is incidental to that, really. -It's quite helpful, though! | 0:43:40 | 0:43:43 | |
Yeah, it is quite helpful, but I mean, you know, | 0:43:43 | 0:43:47 | |
it is what it is, isn't it? | 0:43:47 | 0:43:51 | |
You wouldn't change career for the money. | 0:43:51 | 0:43:54 | |
-You wouldn't want to not work in science. -No, you're right. | 0:43:54 | 0:43:57 | |
-Natalie obviously experiences a shortage of money, in this situation. -Yes. | 0:43:58 | 0:44:02 | |
-Is there a shortage of money, from your perspective? -Yes, absolutely. Yes. | 0:44:02 | 0:44:05 | |
-Natalie, do you think Dave should retrain? -Yeah, I do, yeah. | 0:44:06 | 0:44:09 | |
What do you think he should retrain as? | 0:44:09 | 0:44:11 | |
I don't know, an accountant or something, or a lawyer. | 0:44:11 | 0:44:13 | |
With his qualifications, it wouldn't take very much time. | 0:44:13 | 0:44:17 | |
I've worked with lawyers for 16 years, and I know how much | 0:44:17 | 0:44:19 | |
they can earn, and let's say it's treble the amount that Dave earns now. | 0:44:19 | 0:44:24 | |
I look at the boys and think "Why should they suffer so you can enjoy your job?" | 0:44:26 | 0:44:30 | |
They don't suffer! | 0:44:30 | 0:44:32 | |
I want them to go to the private school and give them | 0:44:32 | 0:44:34 | |
the best start that I can, but how can I do that on your salary? | 0:44:34 | 0:44:38 | |
I know. | 0:44:38 | 0:44:39 | |
I'm not denying that it's a problem. | 0:44:41 | 0:44:44 | |
And I think that the family has to come first, | 0:44:44 | 0:44:46 | |
and personal occupation preferences have to be put aside. | 0:44:46 | 0:44:51 | |
If I had to go and be a toilet cleaner for the money, | 0:44:51 | 0:44:54 | |
I would go and be a toilet cleaner for the money, you know, | 0:44:54 | 0:44:57 | |
and hate every minute of it, but that's what you do, | 0:44:57 | 0:45:00 | |
that's what my mum and dad did, and that's what the vast majority of the public do, | 0:45:00 | 0:45:04 | |
it's to go and do a job they don't like for the money. | 0:45:06 | 0:45:09 | |
I think you're very lucky to have an occupation that you love. | 0:45:09 | 0:45:11 | |
OK, yeah, thanks. You've just completely shafted me, there. | 0:45:13 | 0:45:17 | |
No I haven't. Why? | 0:45:17 | 0:45:19 | |
Well, that was a... Let's not have an argument. | 0:45:19 | 0:45:22 | |
-Yes, fair enough. -What do you disagree with in that, David? | 0:45:22 | 0:45:26 | |
What do I disagree with in that? | 0:45:29 | 0:45:31 | |
-Well, it paints me as a bit of a villain. -Oh, don't be soft! | 0:45:31 | 0:45:36 | |
But I'm not going to deny, I enjoy the job that I do, | 0:45:36 | 0:45:41 | |
absolutely, I do. | 0:45:41 | 0:45:43 | |
To be honest, I have spent an awful lot of my life training to do | 0:45:45 | 0:45:50 | |
what I do, and I like to think I'm pretty good at it. | 0:45:50 | 0:45:54 | |
Is this an argument that the two of you have regularly? | 0:45:54 | 0:45:58 | |
-Yeah, it crops up. -I'll say! -From time to time. | 0:45:58 | 0:46:01 | |
No, it is, and it's one of those things about going back to | 0:46:01 | 0:46:04 | |
getting married and being together from, you know, | 0:46:04 | 0:46:08 | |
and being a family from such an early stage is that we didn't | 0:46:08 | 0:46:10 | |
-realise that about each other for a while, did we? -No. | 0:46:10 | 0:46:14 | |
That was one of the things we discovered about our relationship, and we discovered | 0:46:14 | 0:46:17 | |
about each other, whilst we were already married and had a child. | 0:46:17 | 0:46:22 | |
What was it you didn't know? That you both had such different attitudes to money, | 0:46:22 | 0:46:26 | |
and how to spend it? | 0:46:26 | 0:46:27 | |
-Yeah. -I guess that's fair. -Different attitudes to money, different attitudes to life, really, in a way. | 0:46:27 | 0:46:32 | |
It's just one of those things that we either have to bear it, or split up, frankly. | 0:46:34 | 0:46:38 | |
You know, it's that, or it's the other. I can't see any way forward. | 0:46:38 | 0:46:43 | |
Dave's not going to leave his job, he's not going to leave science, you know, | 0:46:43 | 0:46:46 | |
I'm not going to stop moaning about that, | 0:46:46 | 0:46:49 | |
so you either kind of put up or shut up, and that's a decision you make. | 0:46:49 | 0:46:53 | |
Essentially, we do what's best for the boys, and the best | 0:46:53 | 0:46:56 | |
for the boys is that they have their dad around and they have their family, | 0:46:56 | 0:46:59 | |
and we just keep on digging away and doing the best we can. | 0:46:59 | 0:47:01 | |
It's not ideal, but what can you do? | 0:47:01 | 0:47:04 | |
# Let's play the blame game | 0:47:16 | 0:47:20 | |
# I love you, more | 0:47:20 | 0:47:22 | |
# Let's play the blame game | 0:47:22 | 0:47:25 | |
# For sure | 0:47:25 | 0:47:27 | |
# Let's call her names, names | 0:47:27 | 0:47:30 | |
# I hate you, more | 0:47:30 | 0:47:33 | |
# Let's call her names, names | 0:47:33 | 0:47:36 | |
# For sure. # | 0:47:36 | 0:47:38 | |
We got married in 2001. | 0:47:43 | 0:47:46 | |
-1990, dear. -1990. | 0:47:46 | 0:47:49 | |
Otherwise we would only have been married for nine years! | 0:47:49 | 0:47:51 | |
-OK, how's your maths? -Numbers are so difficult! | 0:47:55 | 0:47:58 | |
When you were first together, did you have plenty of money as a couple? | 0:47:59 | 0:48:04 | |
-Ish. -Yes, 20 years ago, I think we were certainly able to do all | 0:48:04 | 0:48:09 | |
the things that one would like to spend money on, | 0:48:09 | 0:48:11 | |
go out to dinner, go away for weekends, visit friends a lot. Cinema. | 0:48:11 | 0:48:16 | |
We used to keep the place, the standard of decoration was very good. | 0:48:17 | 0:48:21 | |
Kirsty used to spend a lot of money on curtains, furniture, | 0:48:21 | 0:48:26 | |
flooring, decorating. | 0:48:26 | 0:48:29 | |
It's what you enjoy, soft furnishings. | 0:48:29 | 0:48:32 | |
I liked it, yeah, but you like soft furnishing, too! | 0:48:32 | 0:48:36 | |
We chose this wallpaper together, you put it up. | 0:48:36 | 0:48:38 | |
-I've always liked your taste. -Oh, that's good! | 0:48:38 | 0:48:41 | |
Kirsty and Andrew have one teenage son, Toby, | 0:48:42 | 0:48:46 | |
and live in Petersfield in Hampshire. | 0:48:46 | 0:48:49 | |
Kirsty is a nurse and a lecturer in clinical skills, | 0:48:50 | 0:48:54 | |
and Andrew is a photographer. | 0:48:54 | 0:48:56 | |
He, for a long time, had a very successful photographic business, | 0:48:57 | 0:49:01 | |
and earned a lot of money, and then things changed with digital photography, | 0:49:01 | 0:49:06 | |
you can buy a picture on the Internet for 32p from China, | 0:49:06 | 0:49:10 | |
why would you spend £700 paying a studio photographer to do the same thing? | 0:49:10 | 0:49:14 | |
So then that changed, but he didn't really adapt | 0:49:14 | 0:49:17 | |
to that huge, massive fall in income. | 0:49:17 | 0:49:20 | |
We did a remortgage package, and the money arrived, we'd paid off, | 0:49:22 | 0:49:28 | |
we did quite a lot of things we were supposed to do with it, | 0:49:28 | 0:49:31 | |
paid off a couple of credit cards. | 0:49:31 | 0:49:34 | |
Quite a lot of the things did get done, but one of the major things | 0:49:34 | 0:49:37 | |
which I should have done was pay off the balance of the studio mortgage. | 0:49:37 | 0:49:41 | |
Instead of paying off the £25,000 that was owed on his studio, | 0:49:43 | 0:49:48 | |
Andrew kept the money. | 0:49:48 | 0:49:50 | |
Without telling Kirsty, he used it to pay the monthly mortgage payments | 0:49:50 | 0:49:54 | |
on the family home. | 0:49:54 | 0:49:56 | |
For over two years, he kept Kirsty in the dark about what he'd done, | 0:49:56 | 0:50:00 | |
and let her believe the debt had been paid off. | 0:50:00 | 0:50:03 | |
It was just one of those things that I thought, well, I'd rather keep this quiet. | 0:50:05 | 0:50:08 | |
Hopefully, if I just increase a little bit more work, then I'll be able to pay it off. | 0:50:08 | 0:50:13 | |
But, of course, once you start thinking that, it never happens. | 0:50:13 | 0:50:16 | |
It's a very hard thing to face, | 0:50:18 | 0:50:21 | |
particularly when you're used to having sufficient funds all the time, | 0:50:21 | 0:50:26 | |
but it comes to the point where you're seriously falling short, | 0:50:26 | 0:50:30 | |
it's something very difficult to face up to. | 0:50:30 | 0:50:32 | |
-And difficult to tell your wife. -Very difficult to tell your wife. | 0:50:32 | 0:50:36 | |
And what was Kirsty's reaction when she found out? | 0:50:40 | 0:50:43 | |
She was very upset, furious, really, | 0:50:47 | 0:50:51 | |
that I'd kept it so quiet and been so untruthful about it. | 0:50:51 | 0:50:57 | |
When you were in your darkest moment, Kirsty, | 0:51:02 | 0:51:04 | |
when you found out that Andrew had been lying to you | 0:51:04 | 0:51:08 | |
for two years or more, did you ever think of leaving? | 0:51:08 | 0:51:13 | |
Yeah. Definitely. | 0:51:13 | 0:51:15 | |
I was so angry and so irritated and so mortified, | 0:51:17 | 0:51:22 | |
and I felt so stupid and humiliated, and I thought I'll never believe him again. | 0:51:22 | 0:51:29 | |
-And do you believe him now? Sometimes. -Not always. | 0:51:29 | 0:51:34 | |
When I'm looking over his shoulder at his account, and the balance is up on the screen, I believe him. | 0:51:34 | 0:51:40 | |
If he says he hasn't got any money, I know he's lying, | 0:51:43 | 0:51:46 | |
so I just look over his shoulder at the online balance, | 0:51:46 | 0:51:50 | |
and then I know what the truth of the story is. | 0:51:50 | 0:51:54 | |
I always want to be in a position where I can provide, that I can provide well. | 0:51:54 | 0:51:59 | |
It's very embarrassing to find that you are short, | 0:51:59 | 0:52:03 | |
and it's one thing that I really do not want to admit, | 0:52:03 | 0:52:07 | |
so, therefore, I've been flexible with the truth about it. | 0:52:07 | 0:52:10 | |
There are a lot of things I don't find embarrassing at all. | 0:52:16 | 0:52:18 | |
I've never found any kind of musical performance difficult, | 0:52:18 | 0:52:23 | |
or speaking in front of people, a lot of things that people would find very difficult, | 0:52:23 | 0:52:28 | |
but dealing with money, I think, is extremely difficult. | 0:52:28 | 0:52:31 | |
Are you a bit of a child around money, Andrew? | 0:52:34 | 0:52:36 | |
I think I must have been, yes. I'm just not good with it. | 0:52:36 | 0:52:41 | |
-Why are you like that? -I think I'm improving. | 0:52:41 | 0:52:45 | |
-No, that wasn't the question. Why are you like that? -I don't know why I'm like that. | 0:52:45 | 0:52:50 | |
I think it's probably because it's not one of my skills, really. | 0:52:50 | 0:52:56 | |
I don't think I'd ever be good with money. | 0:52:56 | 0:52:58 | |
# Hold me in your arms | 0:53:04 | 0:53:11 | |
# May they keep me | 0:53:12 | 0:53:16 | |
# Singing | 0:53:16 | 0:53:18 | |
# A lullaby | 0:53:20 | 0:53:24 | |
# Cos I'm sleepy | 0:53:24 | 0:53:27 | |
# I'm scared you don't need me any more. # | 0:53:29 | 0:53:34 | |
She won't run off. She knows exactly where she's getting her next meal from, and that's from me. | 0:53:34 | 0:53:39 | |
# Bring me | 0:53:39 | 0:53:42 | |
# To the light of the morning. # | 0:53:43 | 0:53:48 | |
-Hello! -Why the silly voice? | 0:53:51 | 0:53:53 | |
-Slightly silly mood. -That's not good. | 0:53:53 | 0:53:57 | |
-How long have you two been married now? -22 days. -Yeah. | 0:54:00 | 0:54:05 | |
Have you had a discussion about your finances since you were married? | 0:54:05 | 0:54:10 | |
Yeah. I mean, we've talked about | 0:54:10 | 0:54:15 | |
what luxuries we can and can't afford. | 0:54:15 | 0:54:18 | |
When you go to work, sometimes it's nice to have a Diet Coke, | 0:54:18 | 0:54:21 | |
or whatever, at work, and whether or not you should buy them | 0:54:21 | 0:54:25 | |
at the supermarket, because obviously they're cheaper | 0:54:25 | 0:54:28 | |
if you buy them in bulk, than buying from a vending machine. | 0:54:28 | 0:54:30 | |
We thought we'd hold off buying them at the supermarket to see how | 0:54:30 | 0:54:34 | |
much we actually end up drinking at work, | 0:54:34 | 0:54:36 | |
and whether or not we save money in the long run if we bought, | 0:54:36 | 0:54:40 | |
you know, four or eight a week, or whatever. | 0:54:40 | 0:54:43 | |
We were worried that what we'd end up doing is drinking more, | 0:54:43 | 0:54:45 | |
and it's just little things like that, where it doesn't feel like a great deal of money, | 0:54:45 | 0:54:48 | |
but if you work out that you have one bottle a day, a pound a day during the working week, | 0:54:48 | 0:54:52 | |
then you're spending 250 quid on Coke, which isn't insignificant. | 0:54:52 | 0:54:57 | |
You think everything through to an incredible extent. Is that something you have in common? | 0:54:57 | 0:55:01 | |
Yeah, I think we are, like, quite strategic planners. | 0:55:01 | 0:55:06 | |
-I was thinking we could do something with the prawns that are left over. -Yep. | 0:55:08 | 0:55:13 | |
If we haven't got enough spag bol, we could do a tiny starter, or something. | 0:55:13 | 0:55:19 | |
Yeah, sure. Yeah. | 0:55:19 | 0:55:22 | |
Have you had an argument yet? | 0:55:22 | 0:55:24 | |
I really don't think we did. | 0:55:26 | 0:55:28 | |
Don't know. | 0:55:31 | 0:55:32 | |
There was a moment of, like, stern talking to in the Maldives, on honeymoon, | 0:55:34 | 0:55:38 | |
when we ran very low on loo roll, | 0:55:38 | 0:55:41 | |
because Vicky had a cold, and I had a slightly dodgy tummy. | 0:55:41 | 0:55:45 | |
Too much information, just oversharing! | 0:55:45 | 0:55:48 | |
We started to run low, and I was just like, just, you know, but anyway, that was... | 0:55:48 | 0:55:53 | |
It was you that got cross, Jonathan, was it? | 0:55:53 | 0:55:56 | |
I felt my need for loo roll was greater! | 0:55:56 | 0:55:58 | |
And that's been the only cause of disagreement? | 0:55:59 | 0:56:03 | |
Yeah. | 0:56:04 | 0:56:05 | |
-Andrew, are you happily married? -I think we have a bit of a laugh, yes. | 0:56:08 | 0:56:13 | |
-Are you happily married, Kirsty? -Yes. | 0:56:15 | 0:56:18 | |
When he's not there, I miss him for somebody to go to the pub with, | 0:56:18 | 0:56:22 | |
or say "What shall we buy for lunch?" or "Can you go and fill my car up with petrol?" | 0:56:22 | 0:56:26 | |
or, you know, "Let's watch a film. What do you want to watch on telly?" | 0:56:26 | 0:56:32 | |
So it's having a companion, somebody to talk to that is easy to do | 0:56:32 | 0:56:36 | |
because you've done it for a number of years, I suppose. | 0:56:36 | 0:56:39 | |
Is that right? | 0:56:42 | 0:56:44 | |
Yes, and hopefully there's a certain degree of entertainment. | 0:56:44 | 0:56:46 | |
-What, you're funny? -Yeah, I hope so! | 0:56:46 | 0:56:49 | |
Yes, yes, but you're funny as well, sometimes. | 0:56:52 | 0:56:55 | |
Sometimes you're irritating, but that's normal, | 0:56:55 | 0:56:57 | |
but you find me really irritating, as well. | 0:56:57 | 0:57:00 | |
Do you just tolerate the arguments about money, now? | 0:57:06 | 0:57:09 | |
-Do you just accept that they are just part of your relationship? -Yeah. | 0:57:09 | 0:57:12 | |
I think you accept that that it's probably not going to... | 0:57:12 | 0:57:15 | |
Nick won't shift on his, and I, probably, too late. | 0:57:15 | 0:57:19 | |
It's really going to be difficult for me to move on my attitudes about it. | 0:57:21 | 0:57:25 | |
Well, what we've found is that it's probably best we don't talk about | 0:57:25 | 0:57:28 | |
it, because we don't really tend to see it in quite the same light. | 0:57:28 | 0:57:32 | |
I think the bottom line is, all right, you have your arguments, | 0:57:32 | 0:57:36 | |
and on a practical level, you stumble over the problems, | 0:57:36 | 0:57:40 | |
but we want to stay together, and we want to make it work and we want to grow old together, | 0:57:40 | 0:57:45 | |
and I think that's the bottom line. | 0:57:45 | 0:57:48 | |
# Some things are meant to be | 0:57:48 | 0:57:52 | |
# Take my hand | 0:57:54 | 0:57:59 | |
# Take my whole life too | 0:58:00 | 0:58:04 | |
# For I can't help | 0:58:08 | 0:58:12 | |
# Falling in love with you. # | 0:58:14 | 0:58:19 | |
Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd | 0:58:36 | 0:58:39 | |
E-mail [email protected] | 0:58:39 | 0:58:42 |