0:00:02 > 0:00:03Big business is tough.
0:00:03 > 0:00:06But I believe there are certain factors that give us all
0:00:06 > 0:00:10a fighting chance of turning our dreams of success into reality.
0:00:11 > 0:00:14I'm on a mission to get inside the minds of some of Britain's
0:00:14 > 0:00:16most successful entrepreneurs
0:00:16 > 0:00:18and find out how they made it.
0:00:18 > 0:00:22I don't remember really being content. Enough is never enough.
0:00:22 > 0:00:23I'll be studying their personalities
0:00:23 > 0:00:26just as hard as their business models.
0:00:26 > 0:00:28I didn't know my father from the age of two.
0:00:28 > 0:00:32In a bid to unearth what drives these diverse characters,
0:00:32 > 0:00:35I'll also be asking some difficult questions.
0:00:35 > 0:00:36We run a pretty tight ship.
0:00:36 > 0:00:39Is it tight or is it... Is it controlling?
0:00:41 > 0:00:43And I'll be finding out how they survived
0:00:43 > 0:00:46when they faced their biggest challenges.
0:00:46 > 0:00:48- You were in sinking sand as a business?- Totally.
0:00:48 > 0:00:49And now you're going to a point
0:00:49 > 0:00:51where you are about to lose everything you've worked for
0:00:51 > 0:00:53- your entire life?- Yeah.
0:00:53 > 0:00:56My goal is to find out if it's our individual DNA
0:00:56 > 0:01:01that controls our destiny or whether there's a blueprint for success.
0:01:01 > 0:01:04- Judy, nice to see you. - Peter, hi.
0:01:04 > 0:01:07Tonight I'm digging into two businesses whose owners
0:01:07 > 0:01:11have battled through extreme personal and financial challenges.
0:01:12 > 0:01:14I'll be meeting Judy Naake,
0:01:14 > 0:01:18whose pursuit of success nearly cost her her life.
0:01:18 > 0:01:20I was so busy and I'd had this lump in my breast...
0:01:20 > 0:01:22So you realised you had a lump?
0:01:22 > 0:01:23Well, yeah. But then...
0:01:23 > 0:01:25- And you did nothing about it?- No.
0:01:26 > 0:01:30And John Timpson, whose 150-year-old family business
0:01:30 > 0:01:33has survived, despite a bitter boardroom battle.
0:01:34 > 0:01:36- 'My father was fired.' - 'Fired from the business?'
0:01:36 > 0:01:40He was even told he had to leave his car in the car park.
0:01:40 > 0:01:44And he wasn't allowed to visit a shop, other than as a customer.
0:01:54 > 0:01:56Today I'm en route to Nottingham
0:01:56 > 0:02:00for a meeting with Judy Naake, once the queen of fake tan.
0:02:00 > 0:02:04- Lovely to meet you.- Lovely to meet you, too, Peter. Come on through.
0:02:04 > 0:02:07'Judy got the European rights to sell St Tropez
0:02:07 > 0:02:11'and turned it into a multi-million pound success.'
0:02:12 > 0:02:16At its height, her business was turning over £17 million a year
0:02:16 > 0:02:20and making profits of 7.5 million annually.
0:02:20 > 0:02:23The brand meant everything to me. It was my baby, you know, it really was.
0:02:23 > 0:02:27But there is a time to let it go.
0:02:27 > 0:02:29And there's a time to say,
0:02:29 > 0:02:31"Enough, let someone else run with the ball."
0:02:33 > 0:02:35It wasn't just profits that made Judy rich.
0:02:35 > 0:02:37In 2006 she sold up,
0:02:37 > 0:02:41netting a piece of a deal worth a reported £70 million.
0:02:44 > 0:02:47My goal is to uncover the secret to Judy's success
0:02:47 > 0:02:50and her reasons for selling up.
0:02:50 > 0:02:52I think it's a great finish, very fine.
0:02:52 > 0:02:56But Judy hasn't hung up her entrepreneurial gloves just yet.
0:02:56 > 0:02:58Before getting my teeth into her past,
0:02:58 > 0:03:00I wanted to explore her present -
0:03:00 > 0:03:05a professional make-up applicator modified for the mass market.
0:03:05 > 0:03:06Is this your new...
0:03:06 > 0:03:09Yes, yes, it certainly is. And so far...
0:03:09 > 0:03:11Because St Tropez is really what you're regarded for.
0:03:11 > 0:03:13- That's right. - And now you're onto this.
0:03:13 > 0:03:16Yes. But our latest venture is this new one.
0:03:16 > 0:03:18Now, you need a lot of imagination for this, Peter,
0:03:18 > 0:03:22because this is the very first prototype, OK.
0:03:22 > 0:03:23OK.
0:03:23 > 0:03:24- Just imagine.- No, I'll bear with it.
0:03:24 > 0:03:28So it's going to look like that and then it'll have a mirror,
0:03:28 > 0:03:30white LED lights.
0:03:30 > 0:03:33six eye shadows which will fit in there perfectly.
0:03:33 > 0:03:36- And then we have an airbrush. - You airbrush yourself?
0:03:36 > 0:03:40- You airbrush yourself. So you've got your mirror there...- At home?- Yes.
0:03:40 > 0:03:43So I reckon that's going to be a real winner.
0:03:43 > 0:03:47And that, hopefully, will launch us into the big departmental stores.
0:03:47 > 0:03:50And is this the... Is this your St Tropez Mark 2?
0:03:50 > 0:03:53I hope so. I certainly hope so.
0:03:57 > 0:04:00It was fairly lucky to find Judy in Nottingham.
0:04:00 > 0:04:03The reality is that nowadays she spends a lot of her time
0:04:03 > 0:04:05at her villa in Tuscany.
0:04:05 > 0:04:09It's great to be at this point in my life with money. Money helps a lot.
0:04:09 > 0:04:13What... Money doesn't make you happy, certainly not.
0:04:13 > 0:04:16But what it does do is give you choices.
0:04:16 > 0:04:19You can choose where you want to be and what you want to do
0:04:19 > 0:04:22and if you don't want to do it, you don't have to.
0:04:23 > 0:04:26But to earn her millions, Judy's worked really hard.
0:04:26 > 0:04:28It's funny - they always say
0:04:28 > 0:04:31the people who work hardest are the luckiest.
0:04:31 > 0:04:33And that is absolutely true.
0:04:33 > 0:04:35But it comes at a price, to be honest.
0:04:37 > 0:04:41Chasing the trappings of success almost cost Judy her life.
0:04:41 > 0:04:44I never valued my own time or my own health.
0:04:44 > 0:04:47Sometimes, the bad times are really the best times
0:04:47 > 0:04:49because it makes you rethink.
0:04:51 > 0:04:54When I'm out here, I just feel totally at peace.
0:04:56 > 0:04:58I'm intrigued by Judy's story
0:04:58 > 0:05:01and desperate to discover how selling a simple self-tanning lotion
0:05:01 > 0:05:05was make and nearly break for this remarkable entrepreneur.
0:05:12 > 0:05:14To meet the boss of the next business I'll be exploring
0:05:14 > 0:05:17meant travelling further north to Manchester.
0:05:20 > 0:05:23The Timpson name has been a fixture on the nation's high streets
0:05:23 > 0:05:25since 1865.
0:05:26 > 0:05:31Today the company owns 960 shops and turns over £160 million a year.
0:05:34 > 0:05:37The company's first store was established by the great-grandfather
0:05:37 > 0:05:41of current chairman, John Timpson.
0:05:41 > 0:05:42- John.- Hi.
0:05:42 > 0:05:44- Hi.- Hi, Peter. Welcome to Timpson House.
0:05:44 > 0:05:45Thank you very much.
0:05:45 > 0:05:49- This is the HQ?- Er, we don't call it... We don't have an HQ.
0:05:49 > 0:05:53This is Timpson House, as I called it, because this is here to support the business,
0:05:53 > 0:05:55not to tell the business what to do.
0:05:55 > 0:05:56I mean, we wouldn't have a business
0:05:56 > 0:05:59if it wasn't for the people out there who cut keys, repair shoes,
0:05:59 > 0:06:02and our photo business. It's all about doing things out there.
0:06:02 > 0:06:04So the whole idea of this place
0:06:04 > 0:06:09is to support them and make their life easy out in the shops.
0:06:09 > 0:06:11I'm looking forward to seeing the business.
0:06:11 > 0:06:13- Are you going to show me around? - Come along. Yep.
0:06:17 > 0:06:20You might expect a family-run company steeped in history
0:06:20 > 0:06:24to be owned and run by a business dinosaur.
0:06:24 > 0:06:26But within minutes of meeting John,
0:06:26 > 0:06:29I sensed there was something different about the way he ran things.
0:06:29 > 0:06:32The fact that we've always had Timpson on the high street
0:06:32 > 0:06:36since 1860, there's part of that that sets a standard
0:06:36 > 0:06:38that you want to keep up.
0:06:38 > 0:06:41On the other hand, you've got to keep changing,
0:06:41 > 0:06:44you've got to bring it up-to-date, and you bring it up-to-date
0:06:44 > 0:06:46by putting your own character to it, putting your own...
0:06:46 > 0:06:48And each generation should do that.
0:06:50 > 0:06:55To survive in business for so long is a remarkable test of any company's mettle.
0:06:57 > 0:07:00And it's clear that if I'm going to unravel John's business ethos,
0:07:00 > 0:07:03I'll need to delve deep into his company's history.
0:07:03 > 0:07:05And what's this area?
0:07:05 > 0:07:06Archives.
0:07:06 > 0:07:08- This looks like Memorabilia City. - It is. Now...
0:07:08 > 0:07:11I just think the history is so important
0:07:11 > 0:07:13and I wouldn't want to lose all this stuff.
0:07:13 > 0:07:15Odd little bits from the past.
0:07:15 > 0:07:17They've got lessons from them and reminders
0:07:17 > 0:07:20as to what things were like, and quite often
0:07:20 > 0:07:23you meet the same problem that you had many years ago.
0:07:23 > 0:07:25Of course, with me, that goes over 52 years.
0:07:25 > 0:07:27Just looking at this, I can see,
0:07:27 > 0:07:30I'm thinking that history, to you, is clearly very important.
0:07:30 > 0:07:33This, I suppose, represents what experience I've got.
0:07:33 > 0:07:38- Is that a young you?- That's young me, yeah.- With your father?
0:07:38 > 0:07:43With my father. And...at that time my job was to buy all the women's shoes for...
0:07:43 > 0:07:46It was a shoe-shop business, mainly. We just had...
0:07:46 > 0:07:48Shoe repairs was a lot smaller part of it.
0:07:48 > 0:07:51So I was involved with the retail business.
0:07:51 > 0:07:53First of all, I started as a shop assistant.
0:07:53 > 0:07:57But by that time when that picture was taken, I was the shoe buyer.
0:08:00 > 0:08:0370-year-old John has been involved in the family business for 50 years.
0:08:04 > 0:08:06What does the business mean to me?
0:08:06 > 0:08:09It's still a source of great pleasure when we open a new shop
0:08:09 > 0:08:12and it does very well, or I go to a shop that's absolutely fantastic
0:08:12 > 0:08:15or I meet someone new who I've not met before.
0:08:15 > 0:08:18It still gives me just as much pleasure as
0:08:18 > 0:08:23the time when I served my first customer when I started in 1960.
0:08:23 > 0:08:25Four yellows and one pink one.
0:08:25 > 0:08:28I know. I knew you were coming.
0:08:28 > 0:08:29Yeah.
0:08:29 > 0:08:31As well as shoe-repair and key-cutting stores,
0:08:31 > 0:08:35the Timpson Group owns and operates a locksmith business,
0:08:35 > 0:08:37specialist watch-repair shops
0:08:37 > 0:08:40and two photo-processing companies.
0:08:41 > 0:08:45Running such a large organisation means John is rarely seen behind his desk.
0:08:45 > 0:08:50I visit a lot of shops because it's a way of keeping in touch
0:08:50 > 0:08:52with the business and connecting with everyone else,
0:08:52 > 0:08:55but also, actually, it's the way to find out about the business.
0:08:55 > 0:08:58I suppose I've always liked doing things my way.
0:08:58 > 0:09:01I discovered years and years ago
0:09:01 > 0:09:05that the only way to give great customer service
0:09:05 > 0:09:09is to let the person who serves the customer do it their way.
0:09:09 > 0:09:12Give them the freedom and trust them to get on with it.
0:09:13 > 0:09:17John's energy and enthusiasm for his business is remarkable,
0:09:17 > 0:09:21but I want to discover where his motivation comes from
0:09:21 > 0:09:24and just how many ghosts of the company's past
0:09:24 > 0:09:25still haunt its present.
0:09:28 > 0:09:32I really learned about business by what happened in the business.
0:09:32 > 0:09:35And who owns all of the company? Are there different shareholders?
0:09:35 > 0:09:38No, it's basically my business, it's our family...
0:09:38 > 0:09:41Call it a family business, but we've got 100% of the shares.
0:09:41 > 0:09:44- So you own 100% of it? - Absolutely.- Wow.
0:09:44 > 0:09:46How have you been able to do that since...
0:09:46 > 0:09:47Long story.
0:09:47 > 0:09:51Because I had a lot of bad luck which turned into,
0:09:51 > 0:09:52in the end, quite good luck.
0:09:52 > 0:09:55I tell you, I'm going to be very intrigued to find out more about that.
0:09:55 > 0:09:59- OK.- A bit later. That's very intriguing.
0:09:59 > 0:10:03'I was looking forward to delving into Timpson's turbulent history.'
0:10:05 > 0:10:07But first it was time to find out
0:10:07 > 0:10:11how and why Judy started out with her self-tanning lotion.
0:10:14 > 0:10:18So, Judy, St Tropez... How on earth did you discover St Tropez?
0:10:18 > 0:10:22Well, it was... I wouldn't say it was an accident
0:10:22 > 0:10:24but it was a product that was offered to me.
0:10:24 > 0:10:27I'd been in the beauty business for years and
0:10:27 > 0:10:31someone I know said, "Judy, I've got this fake tan. Are you interested?"
0:10:31 > 0:10:34I said, "No, I'm not bothered, I've got fake tans."
0:10:34 > 0:10:36He said, "Well, this one's aloe vera."
0:10:36 > 0:10:38I said, "If it's aloe vera, I'll have a look at it."
0:10:38 > 0:10:41So I read the instructions on the bottle
0:10:41 > 0:10:43and I just slapped it on my legs and I thought,
0:10:43 > 0:10:47"This is going to look like hell in the morning, and I'm glad."
0:10:47 > 0:10:48And it was amazing.
0:10:48 > 0:10:51It didn't have the smell and the tan looked fantastic.
0:10:53 > 0:10:57The brainchild of an American couple, Robin and Tim Gibson,
0:10:57 > 0:11:01St Tropez started life in sunny California in 1993.
0:11:01 > 0:11:03Its ingredients included aloe vera,
0:11:03 > 0:11:07a plant few other products were using.
0:11:07 > 0:11:10At the same time, Judy was in the UK gaining a reputation
0:11:10 > 0:11:16as an expert sales agent for some of the country's leading beauty brands.
0:11:16 > 0:11:19In 1995, Judy and her business partner struck a deal
0:11:19 > 0:11:22with the Gibsons that gave her exclusive rights to distribute
0:11:22 > 0:11:26the tanning lotion to salons and spas in the UK and across Europe.
0:11:28 > 0:11:32But simply having a licence is far from a guarantee of success.
0:11:32 > 0:11:34It was up to Judy to sell her untried product
0:11:34 > 0:11:37into a competitive market.
0:11:37 > 0:11:40Really, self-tanning wasn't fashionable at all
0:11:40 > 0:11:42until I came along
0:11:42 > 0:11:44because people always thought it made you orange.
0:11:44 > 0:11:48But St Tropez was different. And I showed people how to use it.
0:11:48 > 0:11:50I started to do training schools
0:11:50 > 0:11:54and I did mobile ones the length and breadth of the country
0:11:54 > 0:11:57every Sunday and Monday for 18 weekends.
0:11:57 > 0:11:58Wow.
0:11:58 > 0:12:02And so I would pack up the van the night before,
0:12:02 > 0:12:05make the sandwiches with my partner because it was...
0:12:05 > 0:12:06I wanted to give them lunch
0:12:06 > 0:12:08and it was cheaper than going to a supermarket.
0:12:08 > 0:12:11They would pay £25 for the training course.
0:12:11 > 0:12:14I would do an hour's product knowledge,
0:12:14 > 0:12:17so they knew how to sell it, then I would demonstrate a tan...
0:12:17 > 0:12:20- So they self-tanned each other when they were there?- Yes.
0:12:20 > 0:12:22So they knew how to sell it.
0:12:22 > 0:12:24They had the stock cos they took it home with them.
0:12:24 > 0:12:26And they had a tan.
0:12:26 > 0:12:28So when the customer came in the next morning, they say,
0:12:28 > 0:12:31"Wow, you look good. Where have you been?" "St Tropez."
0:12:31 > 0:12:33Like it. Very, very nice.
0:12:33 > 0:12:34Yeah. Yeah.
0:12:34 > 0:12:37Really, though I say so myself,
0:12:37 > 0:12:40I think I can take credit for the whole self-tanning market.
0:12:42 > 0:12:46Judy certainly knows how to spin a line.
0:12:46 > 0:12:47Having spotted a gap in the market,
0:12:47 > 0:12:51she developed a unique way to make her new product popular.
0:12:53 > 0:12:55In contrast, John Timpson's challenge
0:12:55 > 0:12:59is to keep his long-established business moving forwards.
0:12:59 > 0:13:01Here is what used to be the warehouse
0:13:01 > 0:13:03and we've turned into...
0:13:03 > 0:13:06- So this was a warehouse and you've turned it into offices?- Yep.
0:13:10 > 0:13:11So what's here?
0:13:11 > 0:13:16OK, you can see, actually, a load of different departments just stood in this one space.
0:13:16 > 0:13:18Where's your marketing department?
0:13:18 > 0:13:20We don't have one.
0:13:20 > 0:13:22My marketing is done by the people who serve our customers
0:13:22 > 0:13:24out in the shops.
0:13:24 > 0:13:27Every time a customer is served, that creates an impression,
0:13:27 > 0:13:30hopefully good enough to say to someone else, "Come back."
0:13:30 > 0:13:32- Where's HR? - We don't call it HR.
0:13:32 > 0:13:35It wouldn't surprise you to know that we don't use that term.
0:13:35 > 0:13:38I'm starting to get a feeling that you don't like the names.
0:13:38 > 0:13:41- Well...- Because it typecasts... - It's not the names.
0:13:41 > 0:13:45Er, everyone decides what they want to be called
0:13:45 > 0:13:47in terms of their job title.
0:13:47 > 0:13:51And Gouy over there who runs what most people would call HR
0:13:51 > 0:13:53wanted to be called People Support
0:13:53 > 0:13:55because that's what he's there to do.
0:13:55 > 0:13:57He's there to help people
0:13:57 > 0:13:59who are running people within their section of the business.
0:13:59 > 0:14:03- OK. So you do have HR, you just call it a different name. - Yeah, but we don't...
0:14:03 > 0:14:05A bit like you have an HQ and you call it Timpson House.
0:14:05 > 0:14:09No, no, no. There's a good reason for not calling it HR,
0:14:09 > 0:14:13because our People Support doesn't tell people the way...
0:14:13 > 0:14:15It doesn't dominate the way we run the business.
0:14:15 > 0:14:18They help us run the business the way we want to run it.
0:14:19 > 0:14:23John calls his business style "upside-down management"
0:14:23 > 0:14:26and his employees aren't staff, they're colleagues.
0:14:27 > 0:14:29I'll be seeing how this works in his stores later,
0:14:29 > 0:14:33but right now I wanted to ask John about his unusual office furniture
0:14:33 > 0:14:35and hoped he wouldn't get the hump.
0:14:35 > 0:14:39John, in the little bit of time I've got to know you already,
0:14:39 > 0:14:43I'm a little bit surprised at the style of the place.
0:14:43 > 0:14:45You mean, I'm too old and old-fashioned
0:14:45 > 0:14:47to have designed something like that?
0:14:47 > 0:14:49No, I wouldn't possibly go with the age thing.
0:14:49 > 0:14:53You might well be right because this is James's...
0:14:53 > 0:14:55James has really been the inspiration behind it.
0:14:55 > 0:14:57This is James, your son?
0:14:57 > 0:15:00James, my son, who is our chief executive
0:15:00 > 0:15:02and really does all the day-to-day stuff.
0:15:02 > 0:15:05So we started together.
0:15:05 > 0:15:06We wanted to create something different.
0:15:06 > 0:15:07You've got to make it fun.
0:15:07 > 0:15:10I mean, you want people to enjoy coming to work.
0:15:10 > 0:15:14I think James has created a very relaxed, friendly,
0:15:14 > 0:15:16nice, buzzy atmosphere.
0:15:17 > 0:15:21To learn that this was the handiwork of company CEO James Timpson
0:15:21 > 0:15:26made me wonder what other influences John's son has had on the business,
0:15:26 > 0:15:30and whether he was responsible for this piece of playground apparatus.
0:15:30 > 0:15:33I noticed that you had the pole here. The old fireman's pole.
0:15:33 > 0:15:36It is a fireman's pole. You've recognised it.
0:15:36 > 0:15:38- Have you done it before? - No, I've never done it
0:15:38 > 0:15:41but I'm quite happy to... I'll support you.
0:15:41 > 0:15:43We've got to have a go, haven't we?
0:15:43 > 0:15:45Is this the right thing to do?
0:15:45 > 0:15:49Grip with the thighs. That's it, perfect, perfect, perfect.
0:15:49 > 0:15:51- This is good fun. - Well, you could have another go.
0:15:54 > 0:15:55- Come on.- Well done.
0:15:57 > 0:16:01It's one thing to slide down the greasy pole of business,
0:16:01 > 0:16:03but climbing up it is very difficult.
0:16:03 > 0:16:06This is one of my first orders at St Tropez.
0:16:06 > 0:16:10- A long time ago, as you can see. - That's all the boxes, how they came in?- Yes.
0:16:10 > 0:16:14In Judy's early days, she was selling primarily to professionals and salons.
0:16:14 > 0:16:18She needed a breakthrough to get her product into the domestic market.
0:16:18 > 0:16:22One came in the formidable form of Victoria Beckham.
0:16:24 > 0:16:28You can imagine, I was terrified. I'd got my little suit on and off I went.
0:16:28 > 0:16:31- Were you all St Tropez'd up yourself?- I was, yes.
0:16:31 > 0:16:35Well, I used to have one white leg and one brown leg in those days
0:16:35 > 0:16:39because if I had two brown legs, people thought that it was real.
0:16:39 > 0:16:41So I had to leave a white bit.
0:16:41 > 0:16:45And so Victoria came along and I tanned her
0:16:45 > 0:16:47and we'd run out of carrier bags
0:16:47 > 0:16:50and I'd saved a nice Perspex one
0:16:50 > 0:16:54that I'd got from a product launch I'd been to the night before.
0:16:54 > 0:16:57So we popped the three bottles of St Tropez in this bag
0:16:57 > 0:17:00and, I promise you, it was only cos it looked nice,
0:17:00 > 0:17:05and she went out and the paps got her, and she was photographed.
0:17:05 > 0:17:06What?
0:17:06 > 0:17:08Yeah, and so it was incredible, but...
0:17:08 > 0:17:11- Are you telling me you did that by accident?- Absolutely.
0:17:11 > 0:17:14- You must have planned it. - No, I promise you. Because...
0:17:14 > 0:17:18I'd had to sign a, you know, a privacy agreement.
0:17:18 > 0:17:20- Wow, so you nearly fell out with the Beckhams?- Yeah.
0:17:20 > 0:17:22And I'd done nothing.
0:17:22 > 0:17:26But anyway, obviously after that, we became, you know, good friends.
0:17:26 > 0:17:28And then did that go stratospheric for you?
0:17:28 > 0:17:30It did. It was phenomenal.
0:17:30 > 0:17:32I can't tell you how much I must owe Victoria Beckham.
0:17:32 > 0:17:37The phones rang off the hook night and day for six weeks.
0:17:37 > 0:17:40It wasn't possible to get a phone call out.
0:17:40 > 0:17:43We were packing night and day and my poor old dad, who was 80,
0:17:43 > 0:17:46- I'd got him packing parcels. - You'd got your dad packing?- Yeah.
0:17:46 > 0:17:49What did it go up to? What did it get up to a year?
0:17:49 > 0:17:50Up to about six million.
0:17:50 > 0:17:51Six million? Wow.
0:17:51 > 0:17:53Yeah, yeah. It was phenomenal.
0:17:53 > 0:17:57But I went from just me and a car to 140 staff.
0:18:02 > 0:18:05'Judy clearly benefited from a bit of good fortune,
0:18:05 > 0:18:08'but I'm a great believer that if you work hard, you can put yourself
0:18:08 > 0:18:10'in a position to capitalise
0:18:10 > 0:18:13'when Lady Luck, or Lady Beckham, comes calling.'
0:18:13 > 0:18:16Do you see yourself as an entrepreneur businesswoman?
0:18:16 > 0:18:19Do you see yourself as a saleswoman?
0:18:19 > 0:18:21I think I just see myself as a saleswoman, really.
0:18:21 > 0:18:25I don't know, what can I say?
0:18:25 > 0:18:28You buy a product, you sell it and you make a profit.
0:18:28 > 0:18:30And that's what I've always done.
0:18:30 > 0:18:32You say this about yourself
0:18:32 > 0:18:36but the reality is, I don't know, I see a quite serious entrepreneur there
0:18:36 > 0:18:40on the basis of the fact that you didn't just take this product to market,
0:18:40 > 0:18:42you thought about the branding, how to take it to market.
0:18:42 > 0:18:45You thought about how to initiate all of the training that's required
0:18:45 > 0:18:47to go and push this product.
0:18:47 > 0:18:50Then you kept on in a relentless way that, let's be honest,
0:18:50 > 0:18:53most people wouldn't be prepared to do.
0:18:53 > 0:18:55It's going that extra mile to create this brand.
0:18:55 > 0:18:58Yeah, it's all about going the extra mile, isn't it?
0:18:58 > 0:19:05If you go that extra mile with client care, it means everything.
0:19:05 > 0:19:09I think it's all about caring for the people you're doing business with.
0:19:09 > 0:19:13That sounds corny, but I mean that, I think it's important.
0:19:15 > 0:19:18Having propelled her product into the mass market,
0:19:18 > 0:19:20Judy's next challenge was to stay on top.
0:19:20 > 0:19:23But I was about to discover something in Judy's past that
0:19:23 > 0:19:27threatened her business and, more importantly, her life.
0:19:33 > 0:19:36Having met Timpson's chairman John, it was time for me
0:19:36 > 0:19:37to catch up with his son James,
0:19:37 > 0:19:40who's been the company's CEO for the past ten years.
0:19:43 > 0:19:45James has invited me to Hertfordshire
0:19:45 > 0:19:48where he's holding interviews for prospective employees.
0:19:49 > 0:19:52It sounds straightforward, but today's candidates
0:19:52 > 0:19:55currently reside here at The Mount,
0:19:55 > 0:19:58a Category C, male-only prison.
0:19:58 > 0:20:00So, James, what are we doing here?
0:20:00 > 0:20:02Well, welcome to a prison.
0:20:02 > 0:20:05We're here today to interview some candidates,
0:20:05 > 0:20:08so, hopefully, I can find some superstars to come and work in my shops.
0:20:08 > 0:20:10And is this something you do a lot?
0:20:10 > 0:20:12OK, we started ten years ago
0:20:12 > 0:20:15and just by pure accident I went round a prison on a visit
0:20:15 > 0:20:17just to have a look around, really,
0:20:17 > 0:20:20and the guy showing me around was really good. I really liked him.
0:20:20 > 0:20:23So I slipped him my business card and said, "Give me a call when you're out."
0:20:23 > 0:20:25And he did. And he's still with us and he's brilliant.
0:20:25 > 0:20:27And so I thought I'd get a few more.
0:20:27 > 0:20:31And, you know, I've had lots of highs and lows, lots of disaster stories,
0:20:31 > 0:20:33lots of tears, lots of successes,
0:20:33 > 0:20:35and we think it works for us.
0:20:35 > 0:20:36Is it a publicity stunt?
0:20:36 > 0:20:38No, it is not a publicity stunt.
0:20:38 > 0:20:41Not many business bosses would stand here in front of a prison
0:20:41 > 0:20:42saying, "I'm going to find people."
0:20:42 > 0:20:46But I do it because I passionately believe that it's the right thing for my business.
0:20:46 > 0:20:48and there are lots of good people here
0:20:48 > 0:20:51that no-one else will give the opportunity to. So I'm getting the best.
0:20:51 > 0:20:53- Shall we go in?- Let's go for it. Let's go for it.
0:20:56 > 0:20:59Timpson employs just over 2,600 people.
0:20:59 > 0:21:02Of these, 134 are ex-offenders.
0:21:02 > 0:21:06The company claims to be the country's biggest recruiter
0:21:06 > 0:21:09of men and women who've served time.
0:21:09 > 0:21:12Giving so many ex-offenders a second chance is not a policy
0:21:12 > 0:21:15everyone will agree with.
0:21:15 > 0:21:18And James was yet to convince me that this wasn't more about publicity
0:21:18 > 0:21:21than public service.
0:21:21 > 0:21:23Good morning, Brian. I'm James.
0:21:23 > 0:21:25- Hi.- This is Peter.
0:21:25 > 0:21:29'I wanted to watch James and the candidates in action...'
0:21:29 > 0:21:31Hi, James. I'm James.
0:21:31 > 0:21:35'..and see for myself whether recruiting ex-offenders works for both of them.'
0:21:35 > 0:21:36Pleased to meet you.
0:21:39 > 0:21:41I've had a horrible life, unfortunately.
0:21:41 > 0:21:46Been abused. Got into drugs, alcohol at an early age.
0:21:46 > 0:21:48Just kept messing up in life.
0:21:48 > 0:21:51So at its peak, how much was your drug addiction costing you a week?
0:21:51 > 0:21:53£100, £200 a week.
0:21:53 > 0:21:57And you couldn't afford that out of your salary, so you were selling drugs to pay for it?
0:21:57 > 0:21:59That's right, yeah.
0:21:59 > 0:22:01And so when was the last time you took drugs?
0:22:01 > 0:22:0315 months ago.
0:22:03 > 0:22:06And you're feeling that that's a different life and...
0:22:06 > 0:22:08I'll never go back to it. This is my first prison sentence.
0:22:08 > 0:22:12Um, I'll never come back. Never.
0:22:12 > 0:22:15So, tell me about the jobs you've had.
0:22:15 > 0:22:18I have had some good jobs. British Telecom, Virgin Media.
0:22:18 > 0:22:20I've been a bus driver.
0:22:20 > 0:22:22In the later stages, I couldn't get up for work
0:22:22 > 0:22:23because of my drug addition.
0:22:23 > 0:22:26So what's your plan? What's your dream?
0:22:26 > 0:22:29I... To be honest, my dream is to have a secure job.
0:22:29 > 0:22:34And what would it mean to you if you got a job with Timpson's?
0:22:34 > 0:22:36It would mean the world to me, to be honest,
0:22:36 > 0:22:38and for you to, like, trust me
0:22:38 > 0:22:41and for me to have a criminal record, but...
0:22:41 > 0:22:44what would be good is for me to, like,
0:22:44 > 0:22:46be able to get up and go to work
0:22:46 > 0:22:49and just get a normal life, like I said.
0:22:49 > 0:22:54Just be responsible and to prove to you I can do well.
0:22:54 > 0:22:56- Hmm.- Cheers.
0:23:00 > 0:23:02'The job on offer is decent,
0:23:02 > 0:23:05'but had James spotted any potential in the candidates?'
0:23:05 > 0:23:09Who, out of the three that you saw, who stood out you?
0:23:09 > 0:23:11James, the first guy we interviewed, really liked him.
0:23:11 > 0:23:13I thought he was bright.
0:23:13 > 0:23:14Going to give him a job?
0:23:14 > 0:23:16I will offer him a job, no problem.
0:23:16 > 0:23:18And I think he will be a real success.
0:23:18 > 0:23:22- I think he's... He's as good as they get, actually.- What about Dave?
0:23:22 > 0:23:25I thought Dave did really well. I'd be tempted to give him a go.
0:23:25 > 0:23:28He really wanted this job and it was really important to him.
0:23:28 > 0:23:31This was going to be the opportunity to turn his life around.
0:23:31 > 0:23:33And what about Brian?
0:23:33 > 0:23:36Because I felt that with Brian there was a little bit of a twinkle in your eye.
0:23:36 > 0:23:39Yeah. I like to recruit people who understand money,
0:23:39 > 0:23:41who understand about selling,
0:23:41 > 0:23:43about serving customers,
0:23:43 > 0:23:46about ordering things and selling things.
0:23:46 > 0:23:49And the fact that he could make a lot of money selling drugs?
0:23:49 > 0:23:53I know from experience that some of the best ex-offenders I've taken on
0:23:53 > 0:23:55are the coke dealers.
0:23:55 > 0:23:58They're the brightest, quickest, most commercial,
0:23:58 > 0:24:00and they're the ones that make great cobblers.
0:24:00 > 0:24:03Do you ever think, "It worries me a little bit.
0:24:03 > 0:24:05"Will they go back to that old habit?"
0:24:05 > 0:24:09One of the reasons why I interview them and I look at them in the eye
0:24:09 > 0:24:12is to work out whether I believe they've changed.
0:24:12 > 0:24:14But really it's a gut instinct.
0:24:14 > 0:24:18Am I going to risk my reputation by picking this person
0:24:18 > 0:24:20and hope that they're not going to let me down?
0:24:20 > 0:24:23But the thing that I like about recruiting people from prison
0:24:23 > 0:24:25is I know everything about them.
0:24:25 > 0:24:27They tell me that they have done fraud,
0:24:27 > 0:24:30whereas as I could recruit someone off the street
0:24:30 > 0:24:32and I don't know what they've done
0:24:32 > 0:24:35because they can often lie on their CV or just not choose to tell me. So it works.
0:24:35 > 0:24:40Um, if you were...criticised for something you'd done wrong
0:24:40 > 0:24:43in your early life and you never have the opportunity
0:24:43 > 0:24:46to say sorry or, um, to have another go at something,
0:24:46 > 0:24:48then it would be a pretty sorry waste of life.
0:24:48 > 0:24:50I totally agree.
0:24:50 > 0:24:53I think it could be quite clever recruitment,
0:24:53 > 0:24:56because there's a feeling that they might owe you something.
0:24:56 > 0:24:59And I wonder, is that tactical?
0:24:59 > 0:25:02What I've actually found out is that those I recruit from prison
0:25:02 > 0:25:05are generally much better than the average colleague
0:25:05 > 0:25:06I'd recruit off the street,
0:25:06 > 0:25:09because they don't have any other options.
0:25:09 > 0:25:11That's why I'm here. I want good people to work in my business
0:25:11 > 0:25:13because good people are good at serving customers -
0:25:13 > 0:25:15puts money in the till, makes me money.
0:25:18 > 0:25:22I can see that James enjoys turning coke dealers into cobblers
0:25:22 > 0:25:27and he's convinced me that he believes his recruitment programme is good for business.
0:25:27 > 0:25:29We've got Ivan coming to see us again.
0:25:29 > 0:25:32But James and John can try new ideas, thanks to the fact
0:25:32 > 0:25:36that theirs is a long-established business and they own 100% of it.
0:25:38 > 0:25:41But that's not always been the case.
0:25:41 > 0:25:44I knew that there was blood on this company's boardroom floor
0:25:44 > 0:25:46and I was determined to find out more.
0:25:49 > 0:25:51Mmm! Lovely.
0:25:51 > 0:25:53In contrast, Judy's business was much younger
0:25:53 > 0:25:55and her product completely new.
0:25:55 > 0:26:00But she also grabbed every opportunity she spotted.
0:26:00 > 0:26:03I wanted to know where she got her entrepreneurial ethos from,
0:26:03 > 0:26:07so was taking her back to Nottingham city centre.
0:26:07 > 0:26:09As a youngster, Judy worked here with her dad,
0:26:09 > 0:26:12who owned and ran five high-street stores.
0:26:15 > 0:26:17Did you learn how to run a business at school
0:26:17 > 0:26:21or do you think that you learned all of that from your dad?
0:26:21 > 0:26:23They taught you nothing like that at school, no.
0:26:23 > 0:26:24I learned all that from Dad.
0:26:24 > 0:26:27And that was the thing, I was always practical and doing things
0:26:27 > 0:26:30because I always had Saturday jobs.
0:26:30 > 0:26:33I used to go down to the shops at night.
0:26:33 > 0:26:37So, yeah, business was the way I was brought up, really.
0:26:37 > 0:26:39I didn't know anything else.
0:26:39 > 0:26:41So you learned how to sell in his stores?
0:26:41 > 0:26:42Yeah.
0:26:42 > 0:26:44Little things that Dad used to tell me, you know,
0:26:44 > 0:26:48like, "You never tell anybody what your margins are."
0:26:48 > 0:26:52"You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar."
0:26:52 > 0:26:54- PETER LAUGHS - Very good.
0:26:54 > 0:26:56Yeah. All those things.
0:26:56 > 0:26:57Is that where you got it from?
0:26:57 > 0:26:59Yes, I think so. I think so, yes.
0:26:59 > 0:27:03He was very busy. He was always working.
0:27:03 > 0:27:05But he was always too busy to,
0:27:05 > 0:27:08um, invoice them.
0:27:08 > 0:27:11- That's not a good thing in business. - It's not a good thing in business.
0:27:11 > 0:27:13You need to remember to invoice the people...
0:27:13 > 0:27:16I certainly learned that. He was too kind.
0:27:16 > 0:27:18He would do a favour to anyone.
0:27:18 > 0:27:20And... You know, he just...
0:27:20 > 0:27:24would leave the invoicing so long that he left it too long
0:27:24 > 0:27:27and then people didn't want to pay. So, yeah.
0:27:27 > 0:27:30That was the sort of businessman he was. He was always working.
0:27:30 > 0:27:32He was too busy to make money,
0:27:32 > 0:27:33if that makes sense.
0:27:33 > 0:27:36- Did that teach you something?- It taught me a lot, yeah, absolutely.
0:27:38 > 0:27:41Judy was four years old when her dad opened his first shop,
0:27:41 > 0:27:44selling wallpaper, paint and hardware
0:27:44 > 0:27:46here in Nottingham's West End Arcade.
0:27:46 > 0:27:49This shop here was one of Dad's. That was a jewellery shop.
0:27:49 > 0:27:51So that was the jeweller's shop?
0:27:51 > 0:27:53'As well as a jeweller's, Judy's dad opened a florist's,
0:27:53 > 0:27:55'fruit shop and a restaurant.'
0:27:55 > 0:27:58So you literally can see the...
0:27:58 > 0:27:59So we're here?
0:27:59 > 0:28:01Yes, that's right, that's where we are.
0:28:01 > 0:28:07There was a step in the middle at different levels, you see.
0:28:07 > 0:28:09- What were your biggest memories from here?- Biggest memories?
0:28:09 > 0:28:13Well, I think playing with all the... straightening all the tins
0:28:13 > 0:28:16and playing with the keys and then when a customer came in,
0:28:16 > 0:28:18trying to sell them something.
0:28:18 > 0:28:21- Did you try and sell them something? - Yeah, of course I did.
0:28:21 > 0:28:23That must be hard. Could you always...
0:28:23 > 0:28:26Yeah, I loved it. Dad always said that. If he was here today
0:28:26 > 0:28:30he would say, "She used to get these trays out and sell."
0:28:30 > 0:28:32And I used to repair the jewellery as well.
0:28:32 > 0:28:35- Did he encourage you to sell? - Yes. Well, he couldn't keep me back!
0:28:36 > 0:28:39What was your relationship like with your dad?
0:28:39 > 0:28:42It was very good. We were very close, obviously.
0:28:42 > 0:28:44But I always felt that I never was quite good enough.
0:28:44 > 0:28:47He used to say I had a butterfly mind cos I never stuck to anything,
0:28:47 > 0:28:49which was rich coming from him, really.
0:28:49 > 0:28:51- Is that what he used to say?- Yeah.
0:28:51 > 0:28:53Because you used to flutter all over the place?
0:28:53 > 0:28:55Because I wanted to do lots of things, you see.
0:28:55 > 0:28:58What do you think was the biggest thing that rubbed off on you
0:28:58 > 0:29:02that you got from your dad? If you had to pick one thing?
0:29:02 > 0:29:05"You can do anything. You can have anything you want.
0:29:05 > 0:29:07"You can be anything."
0:29:07 > 0:29:10He used to say, "There's no such word as 'can't'."
0:29:10 > 0:29:12And I still say that.
0:29:12 > 0:29:16I haven't realised it's one of my sayings but I say,
0:29:16 > 0:29:18"I'm not having that."
0:29:18 > 0:29:20And I think that's it.
0:29:20 > 0:29:23It's just a question of, "I'm not standing for that.
0:29:23 > 0:29:25"You know, there must be a way round."
0:29:25 > 0:29:28And I think if you have that attitude, you can't go wrong.
0:29:31 > 0:29:34'Judy obviously learned some key business lessons from her dad.'
0:29:34 > 0:29:37- He sounds a real character. - He was a character, yes.
0:29:37 > 0:29:39And it seems to have rubbed off...
0:29:39 > 0:29:41- which is great.- Maybe, a bit.
0:29:44 > 0:29:48But I was going to discover that she took his strong work ethic
0:29:48 > 0:29:49to a dangerous extreme.
0:29:52 > 0:29:55Right, here's my office.
0:29:55 > 0:30:00Back in Manchester, it was time to explore the turbulent Timpson history.
0:30:00 > 0:30:03Five generations of the family have been involved in the business
0:30:03 > 0:30:07since William Timpson established it in 1865.
0:30:07 > 0:30:11- That's a historic one of me. - Your father?- That's my father. - Grandfather.
0:30:11 > 0:30:14That's my grandfather there. And then Great-grandpa is up there,
0:30:14 > 0:30:18so all the generations that have run the business.
0:30:21 > 0:30:24In 1929, founder William died
0:30:24 > 0:30:27and in the same year Timpson became a public company.
0:30:29 > 0:30:30John worked his way up,
0:30:30 > 0:30:34joining his father on the board of directors in 1969.
0:30:34 > 0:30:39But in 1972, John and his dad fell out with the rest of the board,
0:30:39 > 0:30:41disagreeing on how to run the business
0:30:41 > 0:30:44and tackle mounting competition.
0:30:44 > 0:30:46Having only a 22% share of the company,
0:30:46 > 0:30:50they were vulnerable in what became a bitter boardroom standoff.
0:30:51 > 0:30:56What happened was that three of the directors called me in,
0:30:56 > 0:30:57said, "Could we have a word?"
0:30:57 > 0:31:00And they said, "While we're talking here,
0:31:00 > 0:31:05"the others are upstairs asking your father to leave."
0:31:05 > 0:31:06What?
0:31:06 > 0:31:09And that was it. My father was fired.
0:31:09 > 0:31:11Fired from the business...
0:31:11 > 0:31:14He was even told he had to leave his car in the car park
0:31:14 > 0:31:18and he wasn't allowed to visit a shop, other than as a customer.
0:31:18 > 0:31:20It was quite nasty stuff.
0:31:20 > 0:31:22That must have felt like he'd been...ousted.
0:31:22 > 0:31:25It just took a whole bit out of his life.
0:31:25 > 0:31:30I mean, you know, it was the family business created by HIS grandfather
0:31:30 > 0:31:33and developed by his father that suddenly had disappeared.
0:31:33 > 0:31:38How has that shaped the way that you do business today?
0:31:38 > 0:31:41It certainly taught me a lot about what you have to do
0:31:41 > 0:31:43to control a business.
0:31:43 > 0:31:46The difference between 0 and 50% of shareholding
0:31:46 > 0:31:48and between 50 and 100%.
0:31:48 > 0:31:52But also it taught me always to try and make sure
0:31:52 > 0:31:55that no-one can tell me what to do.
0:31:55 > 0:31:57After the boardroom coup,
0:31:57 > 0:32:00Timpson was taken over by a large retail group
0:32:00 > 0:32:02and fell out of the family's hands.
0:32:03 > 0:32:05But by 1975 the company was in trouble
0:32:05 > 0:32:10and John was asked to return to Timpson as managing director.
0:32:10 > 0:32:13John got his part of the business back on track,
0:32:13 > 0:32:15but the group continued to struggle.
0:32:15 > 0:32:16Eventually, though,
0:32:16 > 0:32:19John got an opportunity to stage a management buyout.
0:32:21 > 0:32:25This is 1982. I'd never heard of a management buyout.
0:32:25 > 0:32:27Very few people had in those days.
0:32:27 > 0:32:29How did you raise the money?
0:32:29 > 0:32:36I sold... on a leaseback arrangement...
0:32:36 > 0:32:38£30 million worth of freeholds
0:32:38 > 0:32:41that my grandfather had bought in the 1930s
0:32:41 > 0:32:45and were attached to this business. So I used...
0:32:45 > 0:32:46Used the property...
0:32:46 > 0:32:49Used the property, and, obviously, geared up the leases,
0:32:49 > 0:32:50basically to pay for the business.
0:32:50 > 0:32:53And then, obviously,
0:32:53 > 0:32:56I remembered the boardroom row.
0:32:56 > 0:33:00And I made absolutely certain, however it got carved up,
0:33:00 > 0:33:02I got more than 50%.
0:33:03 > 0:33:06Er, and it was a family business again.
0:33:06 > 0:33:10John had bought the company back into his family's hands
0:33:10 > 0:33:13but that wasn't the end of his battle.
0:33:13 > 0:33:16He now needed to change the way it did business.
0:33:16 > 0:33:20I got to the stage where I realised I couldn't open another shoe shop and make money out of it.
0:33:20 > 0:33:22I came to the...
0:33:22 > 0:33:26This was probably the most emotional decision I had to take,
0:33:26 > 0:33:28that we had to sell the shoe shops.
0:33:28 > 0:33:32So I suddenly, having done all this magic thing,
0:33:32 > 0:33:34of buying it back, making it a family business,
0:33:34 > 0:33:40the thing that my great-grandfather had started, I then had to sell it,
0:33:40 > 0:33:44which we were able to do, which was the right thing to do,
0:33:44 > 0:33:46now I can detach myself.
0:33:46 > 0:33:47I kept telling myself it wasn't,
0:33:47 > 0:33:50because emotionally it wasn't the right thing.
0:33:50 > 0:33:55But I kept the shoe-repair bit and then, four years later,
0:33:55 > 0:33:58I bought all the other shareholders or directors out of their shares
0:33:58 > 0:34:00by mortgaging the house
0:34:00 > 0:34:05and I've been a 100% owner of the business ever since 1991.
0:34:05 > 0:34:08Going forward, owning 100%...
0:34:08 > 0:34:10Will you ever sell again?
0:34:10 > 0:34:13The last thing I want is...
0:34:13 > 0:34:15The whole way we run our business depends on us
0:34:15 > 0:34:18being able to do it our way. I don't want to do it anyone else's way.
0:34:18 > 0:34:21I don't want anyone else telling us what to do.
0:34:21 > 0:34:24That means no shareholders and it means no borrowings from the bank, either.
0:34:24 > 0:34:28And then they ask, "Well, what's your exit?" And...
0:34:30 > 0:34:33I think they're quite shocked when I say, "I'm going to die."
0:34:33 > 0:34:36- So your exit is your coffin?- Yeah, as far as the business is concerned.
0:34:36 > 0:34:39But that's not the exit for the business
0:34:39 > 0:34:42because the business carries on
0:34:42 > 0:34:43as a family business
0:34:43 > 0:34:45because that's got to be...
0:34:45 > 0:34:48Going back to what happened in the boardroom,
0:34:48 > 0:34:51what happened with my great-grandfather,
0:34:51 > 0:34:55the challenge is not only to create a business which we're proud of,
0:34:55 > 0:34:58but also a business that can go through the generations.
0:35:02 > 0:35:04It's a remarkable story,
0:35:04 > 0:35:06one that's helped me understand why John's determined
0:35:06 > 0:35:09that his company's history is never forgotten.
0:35:12 > 0:35:17Owning all of the business means that John and James can now run it the way that they want to.
0:35:17 > 0:35:20But I still have questions about the company's future
0:35:20 > 0:35:23and whether it can survive in a competitive environment.
0:35:27 > 0:35:30I'd already delved into Judy's business history,
0:35:30 > 0:35:36so it was time to talk about the crisis she'd faced in her personal life.
0:35:36 > 0:35:40Judy had invited me to Maggie's cancer care centre in Nottingham,
0:35:40 > 0:35:43an institution extremely close to her heart.
0:35:45 > 0:35:47So, Judy, what does this place mean to you
0:35:47 > 0:35:49and how did you come to get involved?
0:35:49 > 0:35:52I became involved some time ago
0:35:52 > 0:35:55because I was diagnosed with breast cancer in October '02
0:35:55 > 0:35:56and then October '03.
0:35:56 > 0:35:58I love the way you just sort of almost...
0:35:58 > 0:36:02smiley, skirt over the fact that in 2002 you had cancer.
0:36:02 > 0:36:03Well...
0:36:03 > 0:36:05What to tell?
0:36:05 > 0:36:09I mean, I hadn't been feeling well for quite a while, actually.
0:36:09 > 0:36:14But because I was working so hard - it was at the height of St Tropez...
0:36:14 > 0:36:17And so I was so busy and I'd had this lump in my breast
0:36:17 > 0:36:20- and I said, "Well, you know..." - So you realised you had a lump?
0:36:20 > 0:36:21Well, yeah. But then...
0:36:21 > 0:36:23- And you did nothing about it?- No.
0:36:23 > 0:36:27No. How stupid could I be? But, you know...
0:36:27 > 0:36:28And how bad was it?
0:36:28 > 0:36:31It was as bad as it gets because it was grade four.
0:36:31 > 0:36:34And then the following year...
0:36:34 > 0:36:36In the July, I was fine.
0:36:36 > 0:36:39By the October it was grade four again in the other breast.
0:36:39 > 0:36:42That was a bit scary. Didn't like that one.
0:36:42 > 0:36:45- Was it because you were too busy working?- I was too busy working.
0:36:45 > 0:36:47I was too busy to listen to my body.
0:36:47 > 0:36:49So you had to go through the whole chemotherapy?
0:36:49 > 0:36:54I had a mastectomy, chemotherapy and radiotherapy the first time.
0:36:54 > 0:36:57And then the second time a year later I had to have another mastectomy.
0:36:57 > 0:37:01- And all clear now? - Yes. Hmm.
0:37:01 > 0:37:05- How lucky am I!- So you really did push it to the limit, didn't you?
0:37:05 > 0:37:10Absolutely. And, in fact, my oncologist, who I know quite well now
0:37:10 > 0:37:11because of Maggie's,
0:37:11 > 0:37:14he said to me less than a year ago,
0:37:14 > 0:37:16"We didn't think you'd make it," you know.
0:37:16 > 0:37:18- Really?- Yeah. So, you know,
0:37:18 > 0:37:22and you realise... Because I didn't dare ask what grade four was
0:37:22 > 0:37:26until I'd come out of the first one and I said, "What's grade five?"
0:37:26 > 0:37:28And they said, "Well, Judy, there isn't one."
0:37:28 > 0:37:30- Wow. - "Four is as bad as it can get."
0:37:30 > 0:37:33Hmm. It was a grim time.
0:37:35 > 0:37:38And at what point did you decide to sell the business?
0:37:38 > 0:37:40Was this the main reason to say, "Get out"?
0:37:40 > 0:37:43It was the catalyst. Yes, it was. There was competition coming along.
0:37:43 > 0:37:47And you know that moment that when you're really at the top
0:37:47 > 0:37:51but people are snapping at your heels, and it's going to get harder.
0:37:51 > 0:37:55So, the timing was right financially to sell out.
0:37:55 > 0:37:59I'd taken the business as far as I possibly could within the UK.
0:37:59 > 0:38:03And it wasn't possible for me to go out to do
0:38:03 > 0:38:06the rest of the world or the rest of Europe, which it required.
0:38:06 > 0:38:12And then after this illness, it just was ridiculous and, you know,
0:38:12 > 0:38:15life's not a rehearsal and you're a long time dead.
0:38:17 > 0:38:22Between 1995 and 2006, Judy had gone from travelling saleswoman
0:38:22 > 0:38:25to head of an operation employing 140 people
0:38:25 > 0:38:28and turning over £17 million a year.
0:38:30 > 0:38:33But after being diagnosed with cancer twice,
0:38:33 > 0:38:36Judy made the life-changing decision to sell up.
0:38:37 > 0:38:41With Judy selling up, the product's American owners also opted out
0:38:41 > 0:38:44and sold St Tropez to a private equity firm
0:38:44 > 0:38:47for a reported £70 million.
0:38:47 > 0:38:51How did you then handle the negotiations?
0:38:51 > 0:38:54How did you deal with the sale of the business?
0:38:54 > 0:38:58Well, I think, to be truthful, it was my business partner
0:38:58 > 0:39:00that did most of the negotiation
0:39:00 > 0:39:02because I was really poorly at the time.
0:39:02 > 0:39:05But, of course, I liked to read all the documents
0:39:05 > 0:39:09and read all the small print, so I used to do that,
0:39:09 > 0:39:13but the stressful stuff, I'm sure I didn't know a lot about.
0:39:13 > 0:39:17- And in terms of the characters that you were negotiating with...- Yes.
0:39:17 > 0:39:20How did that dynamic work? Because you... They were Jehovah's Witnesses.
0:39:20 > 0:39:22That's right.
0:39:22 > 0:39:25And because they were Jehovah's Witnesses, it meant that ethics
0:39:25 > 0:39:29were very important, so they couldn't screw anyone over in business.
0:39:29 > 0:39:34So what we did because, remember, we only had the distribution,
0:39:34 > 0:39:38so, really, we had nothing to sell.
0:39:38 > 0:39:41So they could have just sold it on
0:39:41 > 0:39:44and we would have still been distributors and had nothing.
0:39:44 > 0:39:49But they said, "No, we split everything straight down the middle,
0:39:49 > 0:39:50"50-50,
0:39:50 > 0:39:53"between UK and America,"
0:39:53 > 0:39:55which was very fair.
0:39:55 > 0:39:57- And did it put things into perspective...- Absolutely.
0:39:57 > 0:39:59You were clearly very relentless, weren't you?
0:39:59 > 0:40:01Yeah, I was. I was.
0:40:01 > 0:40:03Whatever you did, you didn't do things in small measure, did you?
0:40:03 > 0:40:07No. It absolutely put things in perspective
0:40:07 > 0:40:09and what I don't...
0:40:09 > 0:40:13I try not to have in my life now is stress. I just don't want it.
0:40:13 > 0:40:17- So I just sort it. - So stress, conflict...
0:40:17 > 0:40:18It's not worth it.
0:40:18 > 0:40:21Because at the end of the day, it blows up,
0:40:21 > 0:40:25it blows back down and it all goes on the same, doesn't it?
0:40:27 > 0:40:29Judy's been incredibly lucky.
0:40:30 > 0:40:33St Tropez's American owners were unusually generous
0:40:33 > 0:40:37to split the proceeds from the company's sale.
0:40:37 > 0:40:40And surviving cancer, despite pushing herself to the limit,
0:40:40 > 0:40:43is remarkable.
0:40:47 > 0:40:50John Timpson doesn't have to answer to anyone else
0:40:50 > 0:40:53when it comes to running the business.
0:40:53 > 0:40:56Thanks to lessons he's learnt from history,
0:40:56 > 0:41:00he owns 100% of his company and can do whatever he likes to keep it competitive.
0:41:04 > 0:41:08Earlier, he'd stressed that his staff, or,
0:41:08 > 0:41:09'as he calls them, colleagues,
0:41:09 > 0:41:14'were more important than him and his team at the company's Manchester base.'
0:41:14 > 0:41:17- John, how are you?- Very good to see you.- Good to see you. This is it?
0:41:17 > 0:41:21Amongst other benefits, he also gives these colleagues
0:41:21 > 0:41:25their birthdays off and lets them use the company's holiday homes.
0:41:25 > 0:41:29I wanted to find out if all of these things were just management gimmicks
0:41:29 > 0:41:32or a genuinely fresh approach to running a business.
0:41:32 > 0:41:35You've got this philosophy about running a business
0:41:35 > 0:41:37- and you call it "upside-down management".- That's right.
0:41:37 > 0:41:41What's that all about? Why? Is it a bit of a marketing...
0:41:41 > 0:41:47No, it's not. It started for a really very good reason.
0:41:47 > 0:41:52It's very clear in our business, to be the best at what we do,
0:41:52 > 0:41:54to compete with anyone else doing what we do,
0:41:54 > 0:41:56we had to be very good at what we do
0:41:56 > 0:41:58and very good at looking after customers.
0:41:58 > 0:42:01If you want to give really fantastic service,
0:42:01 > 0:42:04the way to do it is to give the people who serve the customers,
0:42:04 > 0:42:08the colleagues in the branch, the freedom to do it their way.
0:42:08 > 0:42:12They can settle the complaints and they can even change prices,
0:42:12 > 0:42:15they can do whatever is right to satisfy that customer.
0:42:15 > 0:42:16OK.
0:42:16 > 0:42:21But in reality it's just a little bit of a quirky name, then?
0:42:21 > 0:42:24Because the reality is, in modern-day business,
0:42:24 > 0:42:28people in stores, managers, they take responsibility, don't they?
0:42:28 > 0:42:30They take responsibility for the stock.
0:42:30 > 0:42:32- If they need to move stock out... - I doubt it.
0:42:32 > 0:42:34I think they do. I know a lot of retailers that do take responsibility
0:42:34 > 0:42:38of the stock they've got out there. They're pushed by their branches...
0:42:38 > 0:42:40The major difference between what happens in our shops
0:42:40 > 0:42:42and most multiples on the high street
0:42:42 > 0:42:45is our colleagues actually order their own stock.
0:42:45 > 0:42:46It makes a big difference to us
0:42:46 > 0:42:49because I believe that our colleagues
0:42:49 > 0:42:51understand their business much better than head office
0:42:51 > 0:42:53and certainly much better than the computer at head office.
0:42:53 > 0:42:57The technology actually get in the way of the business.
0:42:57 > 0:42:59What about the most important technology, which is
0:42:59 > 0:43:02reporting your sales numbers and all the money you're making?
0:43:02 > 0:43:04No, I don't think that... You might think that's important,
0:43:04 > 0:43:08but there's no computer connection between our tills and head office.
0:43:08 > 0:43:12Our till is an adding machine on the top and a drawer on the bottom.
0:43:12 > 0:43:13Simple as that.
0:43:13 > 0:43:16You're clearly going to be tracking sales numbers, you're going
0:43:16 > 0:43:19to be focusing the business against an operating budget
0:43:19 > 0:43:21or an annual operating plan.
0:43:21 > 0:43:24- No?- Not really bothered about budgets, to be honest.
0:43:24 > 0:43:29I look against... Last year is a much better measure. Budgets...
0:43:29 > 0:43:31We leave our finance department...
0:43:31 > 0:43:34We have a budget, but that's really between them and the bank.
0:43:34 > 0:43:37You really are working in the 1920s, then?
0:43:37 > 0:43:40I think I'm probably in the 2020s-plus
0:43:40 > 0:43:44because it's working so well for us. I'm interested in forecasts.
0:43:44 > 0:43:46I want to know what's happening to the cash,
0:43:46 > 0:43:49what the forecast for the business is going to be.
0:43:49 > 0:43:51But budgets are not the same as forecasts.
0:43:51 > 0:43:56I don't take...much notice of what best practice is meant to be.
0:43:56 > 0:43:58What everyone else thinks...
0:43:58 > 0:44:01I'm going to run the business the way I want to run the business.
0:44:01 > 0:44:03- I've kind of realised. I got that feeling.- Yeah.
0:44:07 > 0:44:11John and I were poles apart on how to monitor the finances of the business.
0:44:11 > 0:44:15But he made around £16 million worth of profit last year,
0:44:15 > 0:44:17so at least we DID agree on one thing.
0:44:17 > 0:44:20I'm pleased to see that you haven't run an upside-down business policy
0:44:20 > 0:44:23on the way that you make money.
0:44:24 > 0:44:28John seems to shrug off the pressure of running a big family business,
0:44:28 > 0:44:31but I couldn't help feeling that he doesn't always find it easy.
0:44:35 > 0:44:39Back in Nottingham, it was time to catch up with Judy and her son Lloyd.
0:44:39 > 0:44:41Come and meet my son Lloyd, Peter.
0:44:41 > 0:44:43- This is Lloyd?- This is Lloyd.
0:44:43 > 0:44:46- Hi. Peter, good to meet you.- How are you?- I'm very well, thank you.
0:44:46 > 0:44:50'Lloyd is in charge of Judy's latest make-up venture.
0:44:50 > 0:44:53'I wondered whether she's passed any entrepreneurial genes
0:44:53 > 0:44:57'on to Lloyd and whether they always saw eye to eye.'
0:44:57 > 0:44:59So your mum did well with St Tropez.
0:44:59 > 0:45:02I'm trying to copy everything that she's done, really. Um...
0:45:02 > 0:45:05- Literally?- Literally, yeah, exactly.
0:45:05 > 0:45:06There's no point in rewriting the book.
0:45:06 > 0:45:09- If she can make all this money, you may as well...- I saw how she did it,
0:45:09 > 0:45:11so there's no reason why it can't be done again.
0:45:11 > 0:45:14Are you doing anything different to put your little slant on it?
0:45:14 > 0:45:18Well... I think probably the difference between myself
0:45:18 > 0:45:21and my mother is that this one can sell snow to the Eskimos.
0:45:21 > 0:45:23She's never happier than when she's selling.
0:45:23 > 0:45:27In fact, I've seen people come in for an interview for a job with her
0:45:27 > 0:45:28and she's the one that does the selling.
0:45:28 > 0:45:31- Are you the boss or is she the boss? - Well, I'm not sure what she'd say.
0:45:31 > 0:45:35- I'd say I'm the boss, but maybe I pretend to be the boss. - Who's the boss?
0:45:35 > 0:45:39He definitely is the boss. He's got to make his own mistakes. But...
0:45:39 > 0:45:40Do you let him?
0:45:42 > 0:45:44Yeah, sometimes.
0:45:44 > 0:45:47But it's a difficult one because it's his business, you know,
0:45:47 > 0:45:51it really is his. And it's no good if I keep sticking my nose in.
0:45:51 > 0:45:52It's not fair.
0:45:52 > 0:45:55Judy, how much have you put into this business so far?
0:45:55 > 0:45:57I think about half a million.
0:45:57 > 0:45:59But I'm not sure exactly, but about that.
0:45:59 > 0:46:01Wow. Good mum to have, huh?
0:46:01 > 0:46:03Yeah, fantastic. I'm very lucky.
0:46:03 > 0:46:07But I'll always know, even if, WHEN I succeed, hopefully,
0:46:07 > 0:46:09it'll be because she gave me a step up.
0:46:09 > 0:46:11I've always had that safety net underneath.
0:46:11 > 0:46:13If I can't pay the staff wages...
0:46:13 > 0:46:17I can pick the phone up and say, "Can you help me out? I can't pay the staff's wages."
0:46:17 > 0:46:19- "Mum, lend us a fiver." - Yeah. Absolutely.
0:46:19 > 0:46:21- But...- Everybody needs that little bit of luck.
0:46:21 > 0:46:26I think so. It's great, isn't it? I think that I can do that for him.
0:46:26 > 0:46:30Honestly, it's far easier to borrow a large chunk of money off her than a fiver.
0:46:30 > 0:46:33If you borrow a fiver off her, it's the hardest thing in the world.
0:46:33 > 0:46:35You spend ten minutes trying to get it out of her
0:46:35 > 0:46:37and justify why you need this five pounds,
0:46:37 > 0:46:40but if you need a big chunk of money she's great.
0:46:40 > 0:46:43- It's business, isn't it? - I'm really pleased you told me that!
0:46:43 > 0:46:47- We should have a business chat later.- We should.- I like it!
0:46:51 > 0:46:53In financial terms, Judy has given Lloyd a healthy,
0:46:53 > 0:46:55but sensible head start.
0:46:55 > 0:46:58But her biggest assets are the lessons she's learnt
0:46:58 > 0:47:01from her dad, and those from her own business past.
0:47:06 > 0:47:08As well as the stress of running a big business,
0:47:08 > 0:47:11John Timpson has the weight of family history to manage.
0:47:11 > 0:47:14I wondered how he handles pressure.
0:47:14 > 0:47:20I was about to get a revealing insight from his wife of 45 years, Alex.
0:47:20 > 0:47:23What first attracted you to John?
0:47:25 > 0:47:28Well, um, not very much, really.
0:47:28 > 0:47:30Was it love at first sight?
0:47:30 > 0:47:34Yeah, it must have been, sort of, vaguely. I mean...
0:47:34 > 0:47:36I've never asked you that question.
0:47:36 > 0:47:38No, but you've just been asked it. Certainly...
0:47:38 > 0:47:40Um, no.
0:47:40 > 0:47:44No. For me, it was something that grew.
0:47:44 > 0:47:49When John was going through his... Cos you have had tough times.
0:47:49 > 0:47:51We have had tough times, yes.
0:47:51 > 0:47:54Well, I mean, you've talked about your stress, have you?
0:47:54 > 0:47:55No, I haven't talked about that.
0:47:55 > 0:47:57- Well, John... - He hasn't prised that out of me.
0:47:57 > 0:48:00No. Well, I'm going to tell you. John suffers with stress,
0:48:00 > 0:48:04you know, and sometimes he can be really quite unwell.
0:48:04 > 0:48:06Basically, you... You either go...
0:48:06 > 0:48:09You suddenly find you're going through a period of being
0:48:09 > 0:48:13very tensed up or very miserable. One or the other.
0:48:13 > 0:48:15And you can't... You don't want to...
0:48:15 > 0:48:16You stop doing things, don't you?
0:48:16 > 0:48:18You don't want to go out, you don't want to meet people.
0:48:18 > 0:48:20So you can't function in the same sort of way.
0:48:20 > 0:48:23But everything is turning over in your mind all the time.
0:48:23 > 0:48:27But... But you always feel that you're useless,
0:48:27 > 0:48:29you've never done anything that's any good.
0:48:29 > 0:48:32You actually find yourself looking at other people...on television...
0:48:32 > 0:48:33It's a form of depression.
0:48:33 > 0:48:36- You say, "I wish I was like them, because they're so capable."- Yeah.
0:48:36 > 0:48:39You worry about things that don't matter.
0:48:39 > 0:48:41Have you ever felt suicidal...
0:48:41 > 0:48:43- No.- ..as a result of... - No. I've never got that far.
0:48:43 > 0:48:45But, I mean, it... It is a...
0:48:45 > 0:48:48It's the first question you're asked when you go to the doctor.
0:48:48 > 0:48:52Tips, for anyone who gets in that situation -
0:48:52 > 0:48:54first, talk about it.
0:48:54 > 0:48:59I mean, this is another area where Alex has given great, fantastic...
0:48:59 > 0:49:02I've talked to Alex, talked to Christine, my PA,
0:49:02 > 0:49:04cos she's got to live with me more than most.
0:49:04 > 0:49:06And go to the doctor. And do what they say.
0:49:08 > 0:49:11John's personal revelation is brave.
0:49:11 > 0:49:13But having someone like Alex at his side
0:49:13 > 0:49:15has helped him get through the stressful periods
0:49:15 > 0:49:17when he's feeling the strain most.
0:49:17 > 0:49:19Over the course of their marriage,
0:49:19 > 0:49:22John and Alex have had three children of their own,
0:49:22 > 0:49:25adopted two and fostered over 90 others.
0:49:25 > 0:49:29The Timpsons also dedicate time, advice
0:49:29 > 0:49:33and raise funds for an adoption charity.
0:49:33 > 0:49:38There are far too many takers in this world. We need to have more givers.
0:49:38 > 0:49:41It really used to... I get a buzz from it.
0:49:41 > 0:49:42I used to get a real buzz,
0:49:42 > 0:49:47you know, knowing that I'd hopefully done something really well.
0:49:47 > 0:49:51I can't tell you how refreshing that is in a pretty capitalist society.
0:49:51 > 0:49:53It's nice to meet people that do that.
0:49:53 > 0:49:55It shows it's possible to do that
0:49:55 > 0:49:57as well as have a very successful business.
0:49:57 > 0:50:00- Absolutely.- You can be nice and make money.
0:50:00 > 0:50:03I mean, it has added an awful lot to the business as well as...
0:50:03 > 0:50:06By bringing so many people into our lives,
0:50:06 > 0:50:09I've learnt a lot about people generally,
0:50:09 > 0:50:13people I probably wouldn't have met in the same sort of way.
0:50:13 > 0:50:16And, therefore, I mean, I've learnt from that,
0:50:16 > 0:50:20probably more than anything, how important it is
0:50:20 > 0:50:23for us to be available to help people,
0:50:23 > 0:50:26not just in work and do a better job at work,
0:50:26 > 0:50:29but if we can help them with the rest of their life,
0:50:29 > 0:50:32that makes a difference to how they perform at work.
0:50:35 > 0:50:37I can see now that John's determination
0:50:37 > 0:50:40to make sure the people working in his shops are central to the business
0:50:40 > 0:50:45is founded upon his history of caring for and understanding others.
0:50:45 > 0:50:47But he's not just being kind.
0:50:47 > 0:50:50He sees it as a clear business advantage.
0:50:55 > 0:50:57As well as her business with Lloyd,
0:50:57 > 0:51:00Judy currently has investments in a range of skincare products,
0:51:00 > 0:51:03a TV company and a range of baby wear.
0:51:03 > 0:51:06For our final conversation, I wanted to know why,
0:51:06 > 0:51:09having become a millionaire
0:51:09 > 0:51:11and survived a life-threatening health scare,
0:51:11 > 0:51:13she hasn't simply retired.
0:51:15 > 0:51:18One of the things that you said when we were talking before
0:51:18 > 0:51:21was that you really took it right to the limit
0:51:21 > 0:51:24and it nearly cost you your life.
0:51:24 > 0:51:28And now you wanted to sort of relax, de-stress.
0:51:28 > 0:51:32And now it seems like you're right back in the middle of it all again.
0:51:32 > 0:51:34Yeah, cos I've done that, haven't I?
0:51:34 > 0:51:35I've had the relaxing time.
0:51:35 > 0:51:38I just love to work.
0:51:38 > 0:51:41I love the thrill of business. I...
0:51:41 > 0:51:45I can't help myself. If I'm not doing business, what will I be doing?
0:51:45 > 0:51:48I can't lie on the beach all day, can I?
0:51:48 > 0:51:51Or, you know, be a lady that lunches.
0:51:51 > 0:51:53Not all the time, anyway!
0:51:53 > 0:51:56- It's in you. Is that what you're saying?- It absolutely is.
0:51:56 > 0:51:58- You just can't stop.- I can't, no.
0:51:58 > 0:52:02I think it keeps me young, you know, I just love it.
0:52:02 > 0:52:06Where do you see Lloyd in five years' time?
0:52:06 > 0:52:09Well, I hope by then he'll be fully self-sufficient
0:52:09 > 0:52:11and actually making money.
0:52:11 > 0:52:14And what about if he comes to you in eight months
0:52:14 > 0:52:17and says, "Mum...
0:52:17 > 0:52:19"I was only ever really doing this for you
0:52:19 > 0:52:21"cos I want to make you proud,"
0:52:21 > 0:52:23what would you do?
0:52:23 > 0:52:24What would I do?
0:52:24 > 0:52:28Well, I'd probably say, "Give it to me and I'll run with the ball."
0:52:28 > 0:52:30So you'd come back into the business?
0:52:30 > 0:52:33Well, I'd have to, wouldn't I?
0:52:33 > 0:52:35That's sort of all I know, really.
0:52:39 > 0:52:41Judy's a serial entrepreneur.
0:52:41 > 0:52:43From her youth working with her dad
0:52:43 > 0:52:46and taking the self-tanning market by storm
0:52:46 > 0:52:48to today's company with her son,
0:52:48 > 0:52:51she's shown that business is in her blood.
0:52:56 > 0:53:00For my final meeting with John, I travelled back to Manchester
0:53:00 > 0:53:03where he was relaxing away from the business.
0:53:09 > 0:53:12So far, we'd discussed his company's past and present,
0:53:12 > 0:53:14so it was time to tackle its future.
0:53:17 > 0:53:20So, John, the business has been around for over 100 years now.
0:53:20 > 0:53:21Yes.
0:53:21 > 0:53:23What does the next 100 years...
0:53:23 > 0:53:27- Well, 100 is too far... - What does the future hold?
0:53:27 > 0:53:29One thing's certain - it won't be the same.
0:53:29 > 0:53:31Because the businesses that have disappeared,
0:53:31 > 0:53:34and we've seen enough disappearing on the high street recently,
0:53:34 > 0:53:37almost all of them, they haven't changed,
0:53:37 > 0:53:38they haven't kept up-to-date.
0:53:38 > 0:53:41You have to keep changing your business.
0:53:41 > 0:53:43You never, ever can be satisfied.
0:53:43 > 0:53:47I think every entrepreneur, to be successful,
0:53:47 > 0:53:48has got to be pretty paranoid.
0:53:48 > 0:53:49Hmm.
0:53:49 > 0:53:52And if you're not worried, if you're not thinking,
0:53:52 > 0:53:53"What can I do better?"
0:53:53 > 0:53:57then sooner or later, it's going to get worse.
0:53:57 > 0:53:59But isn't that time...
0:53:59 > 0:54:01I'll throw this out there, then - it's a good point.
0:54:01 > 0:54:03Isn't that time looming?
0:54:03 > 0:54:08- You can buy shoes today for £12, £15...- That's been...
0:54:08 > 0:54:09£25.
0:54:09 > 0:54:11If your shoes then wear out,
0:54:11 > 0:54:15don't you throw them away now rather than come to you?
0:54:15 > 0:54:17That's been the case for a very long time,
0:54:17 > 0:54:21that there's a big chunk of the market that actually sells shoes
0:54:21 > 0:54:24about the same price as we repair them.
0:54:24 > 0:54:27But the market which IS available to us actually has got bigger.
0:54:27 > 0:54:28It surprised me.
0:54:28 > 0:54:31But, I mean, the business that we have now
0:54:31 > 0:54:33doesn't rely on shoe repairs.
0:54:33 > 0:54:36In fact, key cutting is equally...
0:54:36 > 0:54:38Just about the same turnover as shoe repairs
0:54:38 > 0:54:40and we've got a fast-growing watch-repair business.
0:54:40 > 0:54:43- So...- But it's interesting timing, isn't it,
0:54:43 > 0:54:45because you've got a photographic business now?
0:54:45 > 0:54:48You're hearing more and more pressure on the high street.
0:54:48 > 0:54:50How are you going to survive?
0:54:50 > 0:54:52I suppose the biggest...
0:54:52 > 0:54:55It's not diversification, but probably the biggest change
0:54:55 > 0:54:57that's happening to our business at the moment
0:54:57 > 0:55:00is that most of our new shops are off the high street
0:55:00 > 0:55:03and are connected to supermarkets.
0:55:03 > 0:55:06Because it must be better to continue
0:55:06 > 0:55:10to do what you know well and do it better
0:55:10 > 0:55:13than to start to think you're going to be clever enough
0:55:13 > 0:55:15to run someone else's business.
0:55:15 > 0:55:18And I don't think you're going to retire,
0:55:18 > 0:55:21I think you're going to carry on, but...
0:55:21 > 0:55:25Is James the right man to carry on the legacy?
0:55:25 > 0:55:29I would think that we are unbelievably lucky.
0:55:29 > 0:55:33What do we have? We had 300 and something shops when he took it on.
0:55:33 > 0:55:37We're making profits of somewhere around three million.
0:55:37 > 0:55:40Er, we're now...
0:55:40 > 0:55:43We will make at the equivalent level 16 million this year.
0:55:43 > 0:55:46And... we'll get through 1,000 shops.
0:55:46 > 0:55:47I guess, you know,
0:55:47 > 0:55:53probably the best bit of upside-down management that I've done...
0:55:54 > 0:55:56..is handing over to James.
0:55:56 > 0:55:58If you really did take a full-on back seat,
0:55:58 > 0:56:03what's the biggest mistake James could make in running the business?
0:56:03 > 0:56:07The biggest risk is that we lose the culture,
0:56:07 > 0:56:12that we stop doing the things, what we call the magic dust,
0:56:12 > 0:56:14that really make the difference -
0:56:14 > 0:56:16the birthdays off and the holiday homes,
0:56:16 > 0:56:18and the upside-down management thing.
0:56:18 > 0:56:22If you hired a manager from outside, he wouldn't do it that way.
0:56:22 > 0:56:26And I think the business would lose an awful lot very quickly
0:56:26 > 0:56:29if it was run in a more conventional sort of way.
0:56:33 > 0:56:36John and Judy have both achieved success
0:56:36 > 0:56:39because they've done things their own way.
0:56:40 > 0:56:43Their individual approaches to business were shaped
0:56:43 > 0:56:46as they built on the lessons learnt from their fathers and grandfathers.
0:56:46 > 0:56:50I always knew that I was going to be successful at something.
0:56:50 > 0:56:54Because my father always said, "Judy, you can do anything if you want.
0:56:54 > 0:56:56"There's no such word as 'can't'."
0:56:56 > 0:57:00So, of course, for me, that was... I took that as gospel.
0:57:01 > 0:57:06Today John and Judy are passing their skills on to their children.
0:57:06 > 0:57:07James isn't like me.
0:57:07 > 0:57:09If you ask people in the business, they'll recognise that.
0:57:09 > 0:57:12He's a lot quicker and tougher and...
0:57:12 > 0:57:15and also, I mean, more ambitious than I ever was.
0:57:16 > 0:57:19And John knows that to secure success in the future,
0:57:19 > 0:57:22you have to respect the next generation.
0:57:22 > 0:57:26I want him to learn the lessons from what I got wrong
0:57:26 > 0:57:29and hopefully learn some of the things I got right,
0:57:29 > 0:57:31but then I'd want him to do it his way
0:57:31 > 0:57:34because if a family business is going to survive,
0:57:34 > 0:57:36it's got to have someone in each generation
0:57:36 > 0:57:39who's really got it in their own right.
0:57:39 > 0:57:42And after taking things to an extreme,
0:57:42 > 0:57:46Judy's learnt that success shouldn't be achieved at any cost.
0:57:46 > 0:57:51Would I change any thing about my journey? No, not really. Only...
0:57:51 > 0:57:54abusing my own body, I think.
0:57:54 > 0:57:56I'm very happy with what I've got.
0:57:56 > 0:57:59I've got my son, I've got a nice home.
0:57:59 > 0:58:02I have, touch wood, my health.
0:58:02 > 0:58:04What more can a girl want?
0:58:06 > 0:58:08Over the course of this series,
0:58:08 > 0:58:11I've met PR-savvy plumbers and market traders
0:58:11 > 0:58:14who've made money when the odds seemed stacked against them.
0:58:15 > 0:58:18I've spent time with businessmen and women
0:58:18 > 0:58:20with strong ethics and values,
0:58:20 > 0:58:23as well as entrepreneurs, who have learnt the secrets of success the hard way.
0:58:25 > 0:58:30If you want to hear more from these inspiring individuals, go to...
0:58:56 > 0:58:59Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd