0:00:02 > 0:00:09This programme contains strong language
0:00:17 > 0:00:21A great live, visceral rock'n'roll act.
0:00:24 > 0:00:26It was like underground music and rock'n'roll.
0:00:29 > 0:00:32They somehow managed to plug into the original spirit
0:00:32 > 0:00:35of rock'n'roll.
0:00:35 > 0:00:37# My brother, he was a drinking man
0:00:37 > 0:00:40# And I asked him for release
0:00:41 > 0:00:44# He said "This won't do you no good"
0:00:44 > 0:00:46# And sent for the police
0:00:46 > 0:00:50# Well, they busted me for nothing
0:00:50 > 0:00:54# Cos they said I was insane
0:00:54 > 0:00:57# So, they let my body go
0:00:57 > 0:01:00# But they locked away my brain... #
0:01:07 > 0:01:09'I didn't actually start playing,'
0:01:09 > 0:01:12properly, until I was about 18.
0:01:12 > 0:01:16I was aware of music, but the music when I was younger
0:01:16 > 0:01:19didn't really appeal to me. And then I heard Green Onions,
0:01:19 > 0:01:23by Booker T & the MGs and I'd never heard anything like it.
0:01:23 > 0:01:25It was raw, it was bluesy and just different,
0:01:25 > 0:01:27so that really got me interested in playing.
0:01:29 > 0:01:32# Well, I wandered freely as a bird
0:01:32 > 0:01:36# That had broken both its wings... #
0:01:36 > 0:01:37'Jerry Lee Lewis.'
0:01:37 > 0:01:39'There was a poster of him,
0:01:39 > 0:01:42High School Confidential, and he has the white panel shoes
0:01:42 > 0:01:44and the stripes. He looked incredible.
0:01:44 > 0:01:47And then I heard Little Richard,
0:01:47 > 0:01:52"Whoa!" Him, Buddy Holly, all these people. It felt like I was reborn.
0:01:52 > 0:01:55I felt like I wasn't even alive, till I heard this stuff.
0:02:04 > 0:02:07I started in South Wales, with some piano lesson...
0:02:08 > 0:02:12..just to get the touch, the feel, scales and all that sort of thing.
0:02:12 > 0:02:16But when we went up to Hereford, I got into it because my uncle
0:02:16 > 0:02:19was a great pub pianist. And that, sort of, inspired me.
0:02:19 > 0:02:23When I saw all the booze on top of the piano, I thought, "This is it!"
0:02:30 > 0:02:33Both my parents liked rock'n'roll music
0:02:33 > 0:02:36and I think that's really where it started.
0:02:36 > 0:02:39I was hearing it from the womb, almost.
0:02:39 > 0:02:44My dad bought me a drum kit - a full size Premier kit -
0:02:44 > 0:02:48so that was how I got the bug.
0:02:55 > 0:02:57Pete was an utter lazy bastard,
0:02:57 > 0:03:01who really didn't want to do anything, except chase girls
0:03:01 > 0:03:04and, erm, why not?
0:03:04 > 0:03:07We couldn't have done without him.
0:03:07 > 0:03:10# Worthless meaningless space
0:03:10 > 0:03:14# But I swear to you Before we're through
0:03:14 > 0:03:15# You're gonna feel our every blow... #
0:03:15 > 0:03:17'Mick Ralphs had a band called'
0:03:17 > 0:03:20The Buddies, and the singer left.
0:03:20 > 0:03:24They asked me to join, so I joined The Buddies.
0:03:24 > 0:03:28There was three or four local groups who were doing the local gigs.
0:03:28 > 0:03:34Phally was in one group, I was in another group with Stan,
0:03:34 > 0:03:36and Pete and Buffin were in another group,
0:03:36 > 0:03:40We all eventually crossed paths,
0:03:40 > 0:03:43so it evolved over a period of time.
0:03:43 > 0:03:47It's quite astonishing that, from that little acorn,
0:03:47 > 0:03:49Mott the Hoople grew.
0:03:49 > 0:03:53Wouldn't have grown, though, without Guy Stevens.
0:04:01 > 0:04:03'We played in the Chateau Impney, in Droitwich,'
0:04:03 > 0:04:08and there's a fellow up there said, "There's a bloke in London,
0:04:08 > 0:04:11"works for Island Records. Guy Stevens, his name is.
0:04:11 > 0:04:13"He's looking for a band."
0:04:13 > 0:04:19I remember going down one Saturday, I think it was,
0:04:19 > 0:04:23after raising enough money from gigs to put some petrol in my car,
0:04:23 > 0:04:24to get an interview with this bloke.
0:04:24 > 0:04:28Of course, what happened, I'd sit there, like an idiot,
0:04:28 > 0:04:31till the office shut and I'd never see him.
0:04:31 > 0:04:34So, this happened a couple of times and the second or third time
0:04:34 > 0:04:37I burst into his office and said, "We're pissed off with this.
0:04:37 > 0:04:40"I've been here two or three times and you've been dicking me around".
0:04:40 > 0:04:42He said "Come in! I like it! I like your attitude! Come in!"
0:04:59 > 0:05:05The sad thing was, he didn't think Stan had the right look,
0:05:05 > 0:05:08as a singer, which put us in a terrible predicament.
0:05:08 > 0:05:11Mick said, "What the hell shall we do?"
0:05:11 > 0:05:13I said "Look, I'll have to leave, I'm going to leave.
0:05:13 > 0:05:17"You need someone else in, otherwise the band will fall apart.
0:05:17 > 0:05:20"There will be no band."
0:05:20 > 0:05:24So, in football terms, from me being the centre forward.
0:05:24 > 0:05:30I went back into defence. I turned into a centre half and started being
0:05:30 > 0:05:34the tour manager and accountant and God knows what for them on the road.
0:05:34 > 0:05:39Working with Guy, for us, was vital,
0:05:39 > 0:05:41cos nobody else would have taken us on,
0:05:41 > 0:05:44It wouldn't have happened, but for the fact that Guy,
0:05:44 > 0:05:50somehow, saw something in the band that we couldn't see.
0:05:50 > 0:05:53He knew we were relatively accomplished, but he wanted
0:05:53 > 0:05:56to hone it to the way... He wanted to express himself through us.
0:05:59 > 0:06:02# Cos, I'm leaving you, babe
0:06:02 > 0:06:06# Cos now I know you ain't mine... #
0:06:06 > 0:06:09They were just these "boys", supposedly,
0:06:09 > 0:06:12from Herefordshire, who were supposed
0:06:12 > 0:06:13to grow into the situation.
0:06:13 > 0:06:15It was a little bit like the pop gurus,
0:06:15 > 0:06:18where they put a band together, except he was doing it
0:06:18 > 0:06:21in a rock'n'roll style.
0:06:21 > 0:06:23Island Records had put an advert in the paper
0:06:23 > 0:06:26and there wasn't a big response.
0:06:26 > 0:06:28And then Bill Farley said to us,
0:06:28 > 0:06:32"Look, I've got this fellow who comes down and does demos down here
0:06:32 > 0:06:34"and his name is Ian. I'll give him a ring, if you like."
0:06:34 > 0:06:37"There's a bunch of hairy geezers down here.
0:06:37 > 0:06:41"They've auditioned everybody. They want a pianist and singer.
0:06:41 > 0:06:44"We've had a load of great pianists who can't sing and vice versa.
0:06:44 > 0:06:48# I'm leaving here tonight...#
0:06:48 > 0:06:52I didn't really get the job. I was like this makeshift, "We couldn't
0:06:52 > 0:06:55"find anybody else, he'll do for now", kind of thing.
0:06:55 > 0:06:56That was how it was.
0:06:56 > 0:06:59But Guy rang me up about a couple of days later
0:06:59 > 0:07:02and he said, "You look terrible, you have to go to a tailor,
0:07:02 > 0:07:05"you have to have a suit." And to me, that was commitment.
0:07:05 > 0:07:08I thought, "Whoa, we're in here."
0:07:08 > 0:07:13So, he took me to a tailor, spent a hundred quid on clothes,
0:07:13 > 0:07:16which was a lot of money in those days,
0:07:16 > 0:07:19and Van Morrison's Astral Weeks was playing in the tailor's shop,
0:07:19 > 0:07:21so it was a pretty magical day.
0:07:21 > 0:07:26I knew this was my shot. I knew that.
0:07:26 > 0:07:30I'd been in factories, I'd had 40 jobs, 44 jobs.
0:07:30 > 0:07:32I knew this was the shot. We were with Island Records.
0:07:47 > 0:07:49Guy shows up with Mott the Hoople.
0:07:49 > 0:07:55The energy level was...on eleven!
0:07:55 > 0:07:57And they were SO ready to go.
0:08:04 > 0:08:07I think Guy wanted to do it before Blackwell got involved,
0:08:07 > 0:08:09because he was worried that Blackwell wouldn't like it,
0:08:09 > 0:08:12cos that roster was natural talent.
0:08:12 > 0:08:15We really weren't, We were, kind of, like something else.
0:08:15 > 0:08:18We couldn't believe we were in a recording studio,
0:08:18 > 0:08:21let alone making a record.
0:08:21 > 0:08:24All the Island Records' roster would come down
0:08:24 > 0:08:27and these were the big guys - the Traffics and people like that.
0:08:27 > 0:08:33And that was mind blowing, as well, for us little Hereford lads.
0:08:42 > 0:08:45What was his input, as a producer?
0:08:45 > 0:08:50Um...making us feel good
0:08:50 > 0:08:53and making us feel that we were
0:08:53 > 0:08:55about to be the greatest band, ever, in the world.
0:08:55 > 0:08:57He would wind you and wind you
0:08:57 > 0:09:00and take your head clean out the building and then go "Play!"
0:09:00 > 0:09:04He was instigating situations, which you wouldn't normally
0:09:04 > 0:09:09encounter in the business. It was anything but textbook.
0:09:09 > 0:09:14Guy just liked things to be the most basic kind of rock'n'roll,
0:09:14 > 0:09:16which was pretty much what we were doing at that time.
0:09:16 > 0:09:19He knew nothing about music.
0:09:19 > 0:09:22He would just throw things around the room
0:09:22 > 0:09:26and cause mayhem. And then he would mime Chuck Berry licks.
0:09:26 > 0:09:29I mean, if something was out of tune, Guy wouldn't know.
0:09:29 > 0:09:31Guy was an acquired taste, as a producer,
0:09:31 > 0:09:35Worked for some people, not for others. Others were horrified.
0:09:35 > 0:09:39"No, we don't want that!" "That's great!" "No, fuck it, no!"
0:09:39 > 0:09:42You know what I mean? One of these.
0:09:42 > 0:09:45And you come in with all your parts worked out and you think,
0:09:45 > 0:09:49"Fucking hell, what's going on here? This guy's a lunatic."
0:09:49 > 0:09:55But geniuses ARE lunatics, really.
0:09:55 > 0:09:59All he did was put his face right to you
0:09:59 > 0:10:02and his face was pretty weird, close up!
0:10:02 > 0:10:06And dig stuff out of you you probably didn't even know was there.
0:10:06 > 0:10:09Also, he built my confidence. Nobody had ever talked to me
0:10:09 > 0:10:11like Guy did. Nobody had ever taken the time,
0:10:11 > 0:10:14cos whatever I had was under a couple of layers
0:10:14 > 0:10:18and he was bringing it out. It was a tremendous compliment.
0:10:18 > 0:10:22He was the first person I'd ever met who took a blind bit of interest.
0:10:22 > 0:10:28There was such a great instant rapport between him and Guy.
0:10:28 > 0:10:31He got Guy and Guy got him, like, in one,
0:10:31 > 0:10:33so immediately, it gelled.
0:10:33 > 0:10:35It was a piece of magic, really.
0:10:35 > 0:10:38Pete and Mick were supposed to be the writers. I was just to sing.
0:10:38 > 0:10:44But then I started doing this stuff and Pete - who's totally selfish
0:10:44 > 0:10:48as a guy! - is totally unselfish, musically.
0:10:48 > 0:10:51He said. "You do it. You're better than me. You do it."
0:10:51 > 0:10:55There was something to Hunter's songs, especially in the early days,
0:10:55 > 0:11:00There was a lot of passion in those songs. The recordings were dreadful
0:11:00 > 0:11:02and some of the playing was dreadful
0:11:02 > 0:11:06and some of the production was dreadful!
0:11:06 > 0:11:08But the good bits were bloody good.
0:11:10 > 0:11:14The vibe on Mad Shadows was much more depressing.
0:11:14 > 0:11:16The songs were quite maudlin.
0:11:16 > 0:11:19There were problems between Guy and the band.
0:11:19 > 0:11:23Guy was getting nuttier and nuttier and wanted them
0:11:23 > 0:11:27to play these dark shadows, very dark songs.
0:11:27 > 0:11:30# When my mind's gone
0:11:33 > 0:11:37# All I do is sit and think... #
0:11:37 > 0:11:41Guy was feeding Ian with lots of ideas. Pulling things out of him.
0:11:41 > 0:11:43Ian cottoned on to Guy's mood of the time
0:11:43 > 0:11:46and wrote a lot of stuff in that vein.
0:11:46 > 0:11:48# Days go by
0:11:51 > 0:11:55# Don't remember anything... #
0:11:55 > 0:11:57Was it Guy Stevens or Mott the Hoople?
0:11:57 > 0:12:01Mott the Hoople IS Guy Stevens? Is Guy Stevens Mott the Hoople?
0:12:01 > 0:12:02We don't know.
0:12:04 > 0:12:07# And yesterday becomes tomorrow... #
0:12:07 > 0:12:12It was a crazy time, Mad Shadows. It was probably the worst time.
0:12:12 > 0:12:17It was probably the state of Guy and me being given full reign.
0:12:17 > 0:12:21Not a good idea. Not ready for it.
0:12:21 > 0:12:24Some of the songs were all right.
0:12:24 > 0:12:28They just got, sort of, slaughtered by bad vocals and things like that.
0:12:31 > 0:12:33# When my mind's gone.... #
0:12:33 > 0:12:36Chaotic, Mad Shadows. Not a big fan of it, myself.
0:12:37 > 0:12:40CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:12:40 > 0:12:45MC: This group's about to wreck your minds, completely.
0:12:45 > 0:12:49Absolutely. This is Mott the Hoople.
0:12:54 > 0:12:58Now, we're gigging. We started at little tiny places,
0:12:58 > 0:13:00then the places started getting bigger
0:13:00 > 0:13:02and the queues started getting longer.
0:13:02 > 0:13:07One month, 50-100 people. Next month, they go back, 150 people.
0:13:07 > 0:13:11They were getting a reputation as a really good live band.
0:13:11 > 0:13:13There were lots of small gigs, in those days.
0:13:13 > 0:13:17Nobody's going to play a 100-seater youth club any more,
0:13:17 > 0:13:22but they were really the roots of what Mott's audience became -
0:13:22 > 0:13:2713, 14, 15, 16-year-olds. Everyone turned out for a Mott gig.
0:13:27 > 0:13:30They were unbelievable live.
0:13:30 > 0:13:31That was rock'n'roll.
0:13:31 > 0:13:34That's what Guy tried to create and that's what was on stage.
0:13:34 > 0:13:37People going nuts. Riots, all that kind of stuff.
0:13:37 > 0:13:40It felt natural to us.
0:13:40 > 0:13:43We caused havoc wherever we went and it became the thing to do.
0:13:43 > 0:13:46Sometimes we were dreadful, but we always had a good reaction.
0:13:46 > 0:13:49Whenever it happened, we ploughed on until people went bonkers.
0:13:49 > 0:13:52If we got bored, we'd speed up. We'd just go faster and faster
0:13:52 > 0:13:56and faster and faster and faster and nobody else was doing that.
0:13:56 > 0:13:58One bloke, I remember, coming up on stage
0:13:58 > 0:14:00and sticking his head in Buffin's bass drum.
0:14:00 > 0:14:03Had his head in the bloody bass drum.
0:14:03 > 0:14:05They couldn't get enough of it.
0:14:05 > 0:14:09The crowd were mad - maniacs. You know, that whole front area
0:14:09 > 0:14:15just exploded and they didn't stop until the show was over.
0:14:16 > 0:14:20There was a like a whole bunch of us at school and we used to just
0:14:20 > 0:14:22go to the gigs and we started
0:14:22 > 0:14:25to just going to every one we could.
0:14:31 > 0:14:36We used to go up and down the country and we'd bunk the trains,
0:14:36 > 0:14:38because we didn't really have that much money
0:14:38 > 0:14:41and just before we'd get into the station, we'd jump off the train
0:14:41 > 0:14:47and jump over the fence, go into the town, stay there that night,
0:14:47 > 0:14:52sleep on the town hall steps, hitch back. Just a great, great life.
0:14:52 > 0:14:55I mean, bands could be a bit stuck up, as bands are.
0:14:55 > 0:15:00They would come out to the bar, talk to you, ask about what YOU
0:15:00 > 0:15:04were interested in. They made you feel part of their world.
0:15:04 > 0:15:07They were very personable and friendly and decent
0:15:07 > 0:15:11and welcoming and never acted up, like the big-headed stars
0:15:11 > 0:15:16or acted in any arrogant way, but yet, they still WERE stars,
0:15:16 > 0:15:18nonetheless. They were stars to us.
0:15:18 > 0:15:22Most bands were untouchable. The Stones? Forget it.
0:15:22 > 0:15:24They almost translated The Stones
0:15:24 > 0:15:26into a thing that we could reach out and touch.
0:15:26 > 0:15:30We could actually go and stand two feet away from Ian Hunter
0:15:30 > 0:15:32while he's singing Jumpin' Jack Flash in the middle
0:15:32 > 0:15:34of Walking With a Mountain.
0:15:34 > 0:15:38And that's the nearest we got to pure, undiluted rock'n'roll.
0:15:38 > 0:15:42He used to invite one of our school friends up, this guy called Kelvin.
0:15:42 > 0:15:48He used to always be invited up. He looked a bit like Mick Jagger.
0:15:48 > 0:15:51They called him Jagger and he got up and used to sing the encore
0:15:51 > 0:15:53with them, whenever we used to go.
0:15:53 > 0:15:56He couldn't wait. It was his big moment
0:15:56 > 0:15:59When we were back in school, we were all going "Ah, it was him!"
0:15:59 > 0:16:02We always thought he was going to be a big star, too, but...
0:16:04 > 0:16:09When we did the second album, it was apparent that Guy's control
0:16:09 > 0:16:11of us was probably more than we wanted.
0:16:11 > 0:16:15And I think we wanted to have our own input into it,
0:16:15 > 0:16:17although, initially, we went along with everything,
0:16:17 > 0:16:20cos it was all new and exciting, then we started to say,
0:16:20 > 0:16:22"Maybe we should do it like this, do it like that",
0:16:22 > 0:16:26so that's why we went off and did the album without him.
0:16:26 > 0:16:28And Mick had always loved Stephen Stills and all that
0:16:28 > 0:16:33West Coast stuff, so we, sort of, went Mick's way. That was his idea.
0:16:33 > 0:16:35# Maybe I'm just a loser
0:16:35 > 0:16:40# Maybe it's because my boots ain't as clean as they could be
0:16:40 > 0:16:43# I came to town with an even chance
0:16:43 > 0:16:47# Now I'm feeling down The people I meet ain't fair with me
0:16:48 > 0:16:51# I gave it a try but now I'm ready to cry
0:16:51 > 0:16:55# And run back to the place where I was raised... #
0:16:55 > 0:16:58It went very light, then, very country-fied,
0:16:58 > 0:17:00I think we lost our way a little bit, there.
0:17:00 > 0:17:03I enjoyed that record. Some of it, anyway.
0:17:03 > 0:17:05Mick wrote some great stuff on that record.
0:17:05 > 0:17:07I had a couple of nice ones on there, too.
0:17:07 > 0:17:12As nice as it is, nice is not a word we want to be associated with.
0:17:12 > 0:17:15We don't want to be nice. Who wants to be nice in rock'n'roll?
0:17:15 > 0:17:18You've got to be nasty. So I apologise to everybody for Wildlife.
0:17:18 > 0:17:20Used to call it Mildlife, cos we thought it was a joke!
0:17:20 > 0:17:23People who were buying it were totally confused.
0:17:23 > 0:17:26"What are this band doing?" It's eclecticism gone mad.
0:17:26 > 0:17:31The big frustration for Mott was, if you pack out a 3,000-seater hall
0:17:31 > 0:17:34up and down the country on your tour, you would expect your album
0:17:34 > 0:17:38to go into the charts a bit higher than number 48.
0:17:38 > 0:17:40You're playing the biggest venues in the land.
0:17:40 > 0:17:43You're selling them out and you're not having any record success.
0:17:43 > 0:17:45That's not going to work for long.
0:17:45 > 0:17:47You have to have the record success to go with it.
0:17:47 > 0:17:50How do we get a hit record, for God's sake? What do you have to do?
0:17:50 > 0:17:56We couldn't write three-minute songs. We weren't about that.
0:17:56 > 0:17:57Maybe we shouldn't have bothered,
0:17:57 > 0:18:00but we were under pressure from the record company to have a hit.
0:18:00 > 0:18:03Island were losing their patience with us.
0:18:03 > 0:18:05There'd been a couple of singles -
0:18:05 > 0:18:10nothing. And so it's "bring in Guy, bring in Andy Johns.
0:18:10 > 0:18:12"Get in and get out!"
0:18:12 > 0:18:15So we went back and caused all kinds of mayhem.
0:18:15 > 0:18:20People were crying and screaming and urinating themselves.
0:18:40 > 0:18:46They came in dressed as pirates, with masks and water pistols and...
0:18:46 > 0:18:50By this time, I'm like, "Yeah, yeah."
0:18:50 > 0:18:52I always thought it was a bit daft, to be honest.
0:18:54 > 0:18:58# How long before you start to rearrange?
0:18:58 > 0:19:01# How long, how long?
0:19:01 > 0:19:03# Before you realise that... #
0:19:03 > 0:19:07Guy was throwing chairs into the wall, to inspire them,
0:19:07 > 0:19:09which I seem to remember was somewhat inspiring.
0:19:12 > 0:19:15# How long will it take to turn you around?
0:19:15 > 0:19:19# How long will it take to bend you down? #
0:19:19 > 0:19:21We let off all the fire extinguishers
0:19:21 > 0:19:25and ripped the phones out of the wall. It was really pretty bad.
0:19:25 > 0:19:30And the band were going, "What are we doing here with these two guys?
0:19:30 > 0:19:32"Something's wrong."
0:19:34 > 0:19:37Brain Capers, out of all of them, is the one that does pre-date punk.
0:19:38 > 0:19:41That really was a blueprint album and it's only 1971.
0:19:41 > 0:19:45For me, that was the best thing we ever did with Guy.
0:19:45 > 0:19:47That captures it all, really,
0:19:47 > 0:19:51I think we realised what we lacked, when he wasn't around,
0:19:51 > 0:19:54and we went back in with him and it was all a very joyous occasion.
0:19:54 > 0:19:56Enjoyable madness, if there's such a thing!
0:19:56 > 0:19:59he did wind us up to alarming heights, on some nights,
0:19:59 > 0:20:01he really did.
0:20:01 > 0:20:04He used to say "You take yourself too seriously."
0:20:06 > 0:20:09But you have to take yourself somewhat seriously, to survive.
0:20:10 > 0:20:12He didn't, you know?
0:20:13 > 0:20:17# My happiness, I have found... #
0:20:17 > 0:20:20I think he felt he could achieve more under the influence
0:20:20 > 0:20:23of taking drugs. And it was some pretty hard stuff he took.
0:20:23 > 0:20:29And, of course, it took him in the reverse way. It destroyed him.
0:20:29 > 0:20:33He'd invested a lot in the band and it hadn't worked.
0:20:35 > 0:20:39I can't... I think life was pretty chaotic, then.
0:20:39 > 0:20:43He would disappear and you'd go banging on the door
0:20:43 > 0:20:46and he wouldn't answer. Stuff would be on fire,
0:20:46 > 0:20:50and, you know, I think he wanted out, you know.
0:20:50 > 0:20:55He didn't fit with "the business", when Island started getting bigger.
0:20:55 > 0:20:58He would break in and wreck the place. That was his way of saying,
0:20:58 > 0:21:01"We're going corporate, we don't want to do that.
0:21:01 > 0:21:02"We should stay small", you know.
0:21:02 > 0:21:05His position down there was...
0:21:05 > 0:21:07It was becoming a bit untenable, I think.
0:21:07 > 0:21:14Because he was... They used to dread him coming in, sometimes.
0:21:30 > 0:21:34We were the only group he'd really been involved with, to the end,
0:21:34 > 0:21:39so it gave them an opportunity to not retain Guy's services any more,
0:21:39 > 0:21:42which I thought was pretty unkind, because he really got the label
0:21:42 > 0:21:45off the ground. But there you go. That's business, I guess.
0:21:46 > 0:21:54It was desperate, cos it was coming up to the time that were having
0:21:54 > 0:21:57to think about, "Well, is this going to be worth it?
0:21:57 > 0:21:58"Is it worth the effort?"
0:21:58 > 0:22:00We went to Switzerland,
0:22:00 > 0:22:06and we were playing in gas tanks, converted gas tanks, in Switzerland
0:22:06 > 0:22:09and it just came... "This is stupid."
0:22:11 > 0:22:14They weren't going down that well, on that tour.
0:22:14 > 0:22:19They just... I mean, Europe, you had to tell them
0:22:19 > 0:22:22when it was time to cheer, almost.
0:22:22 > 0:22:26"Now it's finished, now you cheer." Mott found that really frustrating,
0:22:26 > 0:22:29because you do all this wild set
0:22:29 > 0:22:32and you think, "And did you like it?"
0:22:32 > 0:22:36They just didn't get it. Because they're Swiss, probably!
0:22:39 > 0:22:43Any country that stays neutral in a war and makes watches
0:22:43 > 0:22:46has got to be a bit peculiar, I think.
0:22:47 > 0:22:50And so we decided to split up.
0:22:50 > 0:22:53And we just split up. Got on the train, came home,
0:22:53 > 0:22:57met the girls at the station and that was the end of that.
0:22:57 > 0:23:02# Yes, I know I lost just a little bit
0:23:02 > 0:23:05# On the journey... #
0:23:05 > 0:23:11It was a shame, but we all said, "Well, that's a good idea.
0:23:11 > 0:23:14"Let's just stop now."
0:23:14 > 0:23:16"That's it, lads, no more Mott the Hoople."
0:23:30 > 0:23:34We hadn't told Island. Island were furious.
0:23:34 > 0:23:36We, kind of, misjudged it a little bit.
0:23:36 > 0:23:38We thought they wanted rid of us, anyway.
0:23:38 > 0:23:42But there was a tour lined up and they said they'd sue us.
0:23:42 > 0:23:48Blackwell said he would sue us, if we didn't do it. So we did the tour.
0:23:57 > 0:24:04And round about then, Pete wanted an audition with David Bowie,
0:24:04 > 0:24:07and Bowie said to Pete, "You're in Mott the Hoople,
0:24:07 > 0:24:10"are you leaving?" Pete said "No, the band's split."
0:24:10 > 0:24:13David said, "You can't do that." He immediately offered us
0:24:13 > 0:24:16Suffragette City, which was a really nice song, but radio
0:24:16 > 0:24:19didn't want to know us. We knew it was going to take more
0:24:19 > 0:24:22than a really nice song. So, then, he offered us Dudes.
0:24:22 > 0:24:25We liked it. It felt good,
0:24:25 > 0:24:28First time we'd ever agreed on anything together!
0:24:30 > 0:24:33Oh, yeah, we knew, right from the second he played it.
0:24:33 > 0:24:37It's an incredible feeling, when you know, before anyone else knows,
0:24:37 > 0:24:41before it's recorded, "That's a biggie."
0:24:41 > 0:24:44MUSIC: "All The Young Dudes" by Mott the Hoople.
0:24:53 > 0:24:56# Well, Billy rapped all night about his suicide
0:24:56 > 0:24:59# How he'd kick it in the head when he was 25
0:24:59 > 0:25:05# Speed jive, don't want to stay alive, when you're 25
0:25:05 > 0:25:08# And Wendy's stealing clothes from Marks & Sparks
0:25:08 > 0:25:10# And Freddy's got spots... #
0:25:10 > 0:25:16A real genius song. Wonderful song. One of the greatest choruses,
0:25:16 > 0:25:18brilliant lyrics and it couldn't fail.
0:25:18 > 0:25:21DALE: It was a perfect Mott the Hoople song,
0:25:21 > 0:25:23not written for Mott the Hoople.
0:25:23 > 0:25:26I knew I could sing it. I'm a peculiar singer.
0:25:26 > 0:25:30I knew I could handle that and it was just tailor-made for us.
0:25:34 > 0:25:37- # Oh, all the young dudes- Hey, dudes!
0:25:37 > 0:25:41- # Carry the news- Where are ya?
0:25:41 > 0:25:44- # Boogaloo dudes- Stand up, come on!
0:25:44 > 0:25:46# Carry the news
0:25:49 > 0:25:50# All the young dudes
0:25:50 > 0:25:52# I wanna hear you
0:25:52 > 0:25:56- # Carry the news- I wanna see you
0:25:56 > 0:25:58- # Boogaloo dudes- I wanna talk to you
0:25:58 > 0:26:00- # Carry the news- All of you. #
0:26:03 > 0:26:04So, a huge change there.
0:26:04 > 0:26:06On the verge of packing up.
0:26:06 > 0:26:11then, suddenly, David Bowie came along with a great song.
0:26:11 > 0:26:14Because of his involvement, I think, he got us the deal with CBS
0:26:14 > 0:26:18and the group took a different turn and became successful.
0:26:20 > 0:26:25So he took us down Olympic Barnes,
0:26:25 > 0:26:27and he made Tony DeFries take us over.
0:26:27 > 0:26:30I don't think Tony particularly wanted to take us over -
0:26:30 > 0:26:33he had his hands full with David -
0:26:33 > 0:26:36but David was on a whole Mott the Hoople thing...
0:26:36 > 0:26:38We were the flavour of the quarter, kind of thing,
0:26:38 > 0:26:43And he was great. Very generous with his time. Everything.
0:26:43 > 0:26:47I mean, if I'd have had All The Young Dudes,
0:26:47 > 0:26:49I wouldn't have given it to David!
0:26:49 > 0:26:55- # Boogaloo dudes- I want him right where I can see him
0:26:56 > 0:27:01# Hey! All the young dudes
0:27:01 > 0:27:04# Carry the news
0:27:04 > 0:27:09# Boogaloo dudes, carry the news. #
0:27:09 > 0:27:11Good night. All right!
0:27:11 > 0:27:14"ALL THE YOUNG DUDES" GUITAR BREAK
0:27:33 > 0:27:38CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:27:38 > 0:27:42Ian's book, The Diary Of A Rock'n'roll Star was like,
0:27:42 > 0:27:46when you read that, that was, reading the brochure of the life,
0:27:46 > 0:27:48you know what I mean, as a young boy.
0:27:48 > 0:27:51It was like, "This is it. This is what it's all about."
0:27:51 > 0:27:55I remember, we were on tour, I think in America,
0:27:55 > 0:27:57when Diary Of A Rock'n'roll Star came out.
0:27:57 > 0:28:01And he always had his finger on the pulse, Ian.
0:28:01 > 0:28:04He, sort of, understood what was going on.
0:28:04 > 0:28:07He understood the ridiculousness of the lifestyle
0:28:07 > 0:28:13and, you know, the sort of catapult effect it would have on your life.
0:28:13 > 0:28:17Yeah, it was quite a new thing to write a book about
0:28:17 > 0:28:21and it's still regarded as one the best books written from the inside.
0:28:21 > 0:28:24The main thing about Diary Of A Rock'n'roll Star
0:28:24 > 0:28:28was it opened up a whole world we didn't know about.
0:28:28 > 0:28:34You'd think touring America would be all private jets, limousines,
0:28:34 > 0:28:39parties with The Who, Led Zeppelin, groupies, mudsharks, whatever.
0:28:41 > 0:28:44He was writing, with a hangover, in a hotel room, at 8.00am,
0:28:44 > 0:28:47wondering if he was going to have a fried egg sandwich,
0:28:49 > 0:28:54detailing all the band's individual foibles,
0:28:54 > 0:28:56the drudgery of soundchecks,
0:28:56 > 0:28:59the frustration at gigs being cancelled.
0:28:59 > 0:29:02It was a very realistic book
0:29:02 > 0:29:05and it couldn't have been written by anyone else.
0:29:05 > 0:29:08All the bands stayed on Sunset Strip, at the Hyatt.
0:29:08 > 0:29:10You walk into the hall and there's this picture of this
0:29:10 > 0:29:13hairy geezer on the wall, like that,
0:29:13 > 0:29:16and it goes, "Treat this man with respect -
0:29:16 > 0:29:19"he may have just sold one million records".
0:29:19 > 0:29:24So, they had that, kind of... It didn't matter what you looked like,
0:29:24 > 0:29:27what you did. If you made money, then you got respect.
0:29:27 > 0:29:30Most band's I've been with don't pay any attention
0:29:30 > 0:29:33to where they are and don't really know they're getting
0:29:33 > 0:29:37the great, great privilege of being able to make music,
0:29:37 > 0:29:42really see the world and save their lives at the same time.
0:29:42 > 0:29:45Mott the Hoople didn't run out to all the museums,
0:29:45 > 0:29:48- they ran out to all the pawn shops... - That's P-A-W-N.
0:29:48 > 0:29:53..and thrift stores. Especially liked to get guitars.
0:29:53 > 0:29:55They shopped all over the world.
0:29:55 > 0:29:59You'd find the old guitars for 50 bucks,
0:29:59 > 0:30:01that you couldn't get in England.
0:30:01 > 0:30:04I had this old Maltese Cross that Mick Ralphs
0:30:04 > 0:30:07spotted in a pawn shop in San Francisco and it was
0:30:07 > 0:30:12getting in every paper, everybody loved that Maltese Cross - 75 bucks.
0:30:12 > 0:30:16I saw this Gibson Les Paul and I knew it was a Gibson Les Paul
0:30:16 > 0:30:19but I pretended I didn't know what it was,
0:30:19 > 0:30:22"How much is that guitar in the window, the red one?"
0:30:22 > 0:30:25So he went, "The Gibson Les Paul?" and I thought, "Oh, shit!"
0:30:25 > 0:30:28I said, "Yeah." He said, "100." I couldn't believe my luck-
0:30:28 > 0:30:29"100?!"
0:30:29 > 0:30:35He said, "All right, 50!" I mean, I was amazed!
0:30:35 > 0:30:38So this is the days before the customs people twigged onto it
0:30:38 > 0:30:43and the dealers got onto it- come back to England with a few guitars,
0:30:43 > 0:30:47go down to music shops in London, flog them, make a healthy profit
0:30:47 > 0:30:51and live off that for a few months, then go back and do the same again.
0:30:51 > 0:30:54# One of the boys
0:30:54 > 0:30:57# I'm just one of the boys... #
0:30:57 > 0:31:01The first time I heard Dudes I knew everything would change for them.
0:31:01 > 0:31:04You knew it was going to be a hit.
0:31:04 > 0:31:07It was one of those records that, the first time you heard it,
0:31:07 > 0:31:11you knew, this is going to be a smash, but also it was mixed with
0:31:11 > 0:31:18some sadness, because I, sort of, knew we were going to lose them.
0:31:20 > 0:31:23A lot of those fanatic kids were saying, "They've sold out,
0:31:23 > 0:31:25"It's not the Mott we know."
0:31:25 > 0:31:27The other thing was, we can't live off David
0:31:27 > 0:31:31for the rest of our lives, what are we going to do?
0:31:31 > 0:31:33We've got to have our own song.
0:31:33 > 0:31:36So, no, it was panic more than anything. "What do we do now?"
0:31:36 > 0:31:40They had to stand on their own two feet, break away from DeFries
0:31:40 > 0:31:45and someone had to lead the band from within the band.
0:31:45 > 0:31:50The democracy ceased to be - it was like, "Who's going to take control?"
0:31:50 > 0:31:56and it was Ian who took control, so we were no longer a democracy.
0:31:56 > 0:31:57That's not true.
0:31:57 > 0:32:00No, it was always a democracy - that was the problem.
0:32:01 > 0:32:04I remember Bowie taking me to Stage Deli in New York
0:32:04 > 0:32:07and saying, "You've got to take this over."
0:32:07 > 0:32:11DeFries would... They would just get on with it.
0:32:11 > 0:32:14With us, it had to be 5-0, it couldn't be 3-2 or 4-1,
0:32:14 > 0:32:15it had to be 5-0.
0:32:15 > 0:32:18I went back and said David reckons
0:32:18 > 0:32:21I should take over the band. Ralphs said, "Like fuck, you are!"
0:32:21 > 0:32:22and that was the end of that.
0:32:22 > 0:32:26I think, by then, Ian had figured out how it worked
0:32:26 > 0:32:30and he wanted to, that's my feeling at the time - he had a handle
0:32:30 > 0:32:34on it all and he knew how he wanted it to be and I think
0:32:34 > 0:32:36Phally, like myself, felt less involvement in it.
0:32:36 > 0:32:38And then it got to the stage where I'd be like,
0:32:38 > 0:32:41"Now we're going to do a slow song." Behind me, I'd be hearing,
0:32:41 > 0:32:44"Yeah, like, fucking right we'll do a fucking slow song!"
0:32:44 > 0:32:46It was getting really bad!
0:32:46 > 0:32:50We were coming back from Sheffield and it just built up
0:32:50 > 0:32:53on the way back from the gig and he said he was leaving, that was it.
0:32:53 > 0:32:55He'd left.
0:32:55 > 0:32:59He was always saying he was leaving and Ralphs would say,
0:32:59 > 0:33:02"Don't be so stupid." Ralphs always looked after Phally,
0:33:02 > 0:33:05and then one day he said, "That's it, I'm leaving."
0:33:05 > 0:33:07and Mick said, "Well, what are you going to be doing next?"
0:33:07 > 0:33:10Silly thing to do, really, looking back on it now, especially as
0:33:10 > 0:33:15we still had a number in the Top 20. Dudes was still in the Top 20,
0:33:15 > 0:33:17at the time I left, which is a berkish thing to do,
0:33:17 > 0:33:20if you think about it.
0:33:20 > 0:33:23And, of course, the minute we agreed to let him go,
0:33:23 > 0:33:24then he didn't want to go!
0:33:24 > 0:33:28Phally's a strange guy. They're all strange, that's what makes
0:33:28 > 0:33:35the band what it is, but he'll tell you, "I kick my arse every day!"
0:33:47 > 0:33:49David Bowie had shown us that there
0:33:49 > 0:33:54is a way to write a hit song that is credible, but is commercial.
0:33:55 > 0:33:57Mick was working at it, I was working at it,
0:33:57 > 0:34:01and we came up with Honaloochie Boogie, which was a stopgap,
0:34:01 > 0:34:07all right, and it worked and then we had All The Way From Memphis,
0:34:07 > 0:34:09which followed that, which was, we were all up for that one.
0:34:09 > 0:34:15Once you get one hit single, it can take off and they did.
0:34:17 > 0:34:20# Forgot my six-string razor
0:34:20 > 0:34:23# Hit the sky
0:34:24 > 0:34:29# Halfway to Memphis before I realised
0:34:31 > 0:34:35# Well, I rang the information
0:34:35 > 0:34:37# My axe is cold
0:34:38 > 0:34:43# They said she rides a train to Oriole
0:34:44 > 0:34:48# Now it's a mighty long way down a dusty trail
0:34:48 > 0:34:52# And the sun burns hot on the cold steel rail
0:34:52 > 0:34:55# And I look like a bum and I crawl like a snail
0:34:58 > 0:35:00# All the way from Memphis... #
0:35:00 > 0:35:04Those songs are classic three-minute singles. They'd cracked it.
0:35:06 > 0:35:09I did feel I had the formula.
0:35:12 > 0:35:15That's got to be off the Rolling Stones, who had the formula
0:35:15 > 0:35:19for God knows how long. We had it briefly for a couple of years.
0:35:19 > 0:35:22It's a great feeling. It's almost like Saturn with the ring
0:35:22 > 0:35:24round it, there's like a ring round the Earth
0:35:24 > 0:35:27and you've got to poke up and get something out of it, and sometimes,
0:35:27 > 0:35:32sometimes you get a country song, which is like, "What?!
0:35:32 > 0:35:35"Perhaps the guy before me missed it?"
0:35:42 > 0:35:47I sat in Air Studios to listen to the first playback of it.
0:35:47 > 0:35:50The feeling in the air that day was brilliant.
0:35:50 > 0:35:53Everyone in that room realised they'd just made their masterpiece.
0:35:53 > 0:35:55It was a pinnacle, I suppose. We'd struggled and struggled
0:35:55 > 0:35:57and argued and fought and ended up with it
0:35:57 > 0:36:00and it was quite an achievement. We were all very pleased with
0:36:00 > 0:36:06the end result. I think the record company was, too. Then, I left!
0:36:10 > 0:36:13Mick thought it was more my input than his on that record,
0:36:13 > 0:36:14which it was.
0:36:14 > 0:36:17It could have been his, but I just got there first.
0:36:17 > 0:36:23Oh, it had certainly moved towards Ian, absolutely,
0:36:23 > 0:36:28but it was inevitable, because Hunter, when it comes down to it,
0:36:28 > 0:36:31did the business. He wrote some very good songs
0:36:31 > 0:36:35and there wouldn't have been a Mott the Hoople but for Ian.
0:36:37 > 0:36:41You could see, as Ian grew, it obviously diminished
0:36:41 > 0:36:44a bit for Mick. I thought they balanced each other myself,
0:36:44 > 0:36:48but it wasn't anything to do with me.
0:36:48 > 0:36:50It's just a buzz.
0:36:50 > 0:36:52Some kind of temporary...
0:37:07 > 0:37:09So I was getting frustrated, because I had
0:37:09 > 0:37:12a lot of songs, like Can't Get Enough, Moving On, Ready For Love,
0:37:12 > 0:37:16which he liked, but said, " I can't really sing those sort of songs."
0:37:16 > 0:37:19I always thought, I'd like to work with somebody else, who can
0:37:19 > 0:37:23sing my songs, but in Mott, I could see it wasn't going to be possible.
0:37:23 > 0:37:26And that's why I got involved with Paul Rodgers.
0:37:30 > 0:37:32# Who goes... #
0:37:32 > 0:37:35The group, by this time, was a different vehicle. We were
0:37:35 > 0:37:40more "respectable", for want of a better word, and Phally and me
0:37:40 > 0:37:43particularly liked the dangerous aspect of it all, the recklessness
0:37:43 > 0:37:46of it, which came at a price. There was no commercial success,
0:37:46 > 0:37:50so there was a compromise and the original group, no compromises.
0:37:56 > 0:37:59So there you go, that was the end of Mott the Hoople really,
0:37:59 > 0:38:06you know - the original - The Mott the Hoople, Guy's Mott the Hoople.
0:38:09 > 0:38:12# You are not alone. #
0:38:14 > 0:38:17On the back page of Melody Maker, there was an ad that said,
0:38:17 > 0:38:23"Name rock band with imminent US tour seeks keyboard player"
0:38:23 > 0:38:26and the "Imminent US tour" bit flashed at me
0:38:26 > 0:38:30like that. Let's find out who it is, because they never say who they are.
0:38:30 > 0:38:33I saw the advert in Melody Maker saying piano player wanted
0:38:33 > 0:38:38and Hammond organist wanted for name band, so it turned out to be
0:38:38 > 0:38:42Mott the Hoople and I got the job as Hammond Organist.
0:38:42 > 0:38:44They offered me the job with Mott the Hoople.
0:38:44 > 0:38:48Would I like to join the band and what can I say?
0:38:48 > 0:38:50It was a job that I couldn't refuse, to be honest,
0:38:50 > 0:38:54because I didn't have anything else to do.
0:38:54 > 0:38:58I'd like to introduce you to Ariel Bender!
0:39:00 > 0:39:03It kind of described the way he sounded. "Oh yeah,
0:39:03 > 0:39:04"that's Ariel Bender!"
0:39:17 > 0:39:21Oh, good God, how did I get the name Ariel Bender?!
0:39:21 > 0:39:22HE LAUGHS
0:39:22 > 0:39:25We were in Germany doing a television show with
0:39:25 > 0:39:29Lynsey de Paul. It was one of those dismal German shows,
0:39:29 > 0:39:33it wasn't a good one. They had great ones - this wasn't one of them.
0:39:33 > 0:39:35Anyway, Mick went down the street, Mick Ralphs,
0:39:35 > 0:39:38and he just bent every car ariel in the street
0:39:38 > 0:39:41because we were just so frustrated with this stupid thing
0:39:41 > 0:39:44we were doing, and then, at the end, there was a horse's trough,
0:39:44 > 0:39:48and I remember him just shoving his head in the horse's trough.
0:39:48 > 0:39:53And Lynsey de Paul goes, "Ariel Bender." Ding!
0:39:53 > 0:39:54I met him in a pub in Hampstead,
0:39:54 > 0:39:57and I said, "You know your name Luther Grosvenor, I always
0:39:57 > 0:40:01"thought that was a great name, Luther Grosvenor"- which it is.
0:40:01 > 0:40:04He said, "It's an amazing name. I'd never change that name
0:40:04 > 0:40:06"in a million years."
0:40:06 > 0:40:10I said, "I was just thinking, what do you think about Ariel Bender?"
0:40:10 > 0:40:14"Ariel Bender? That sounds great. yeah, call me Ariel!"
0:40:14 > 0:40:17From that moment on, he became Ariel.
0:40:17 > 0:40:18# Walking with a mountain
0:40:19 > 0:40:21# I'm walking with a mountain
0:40:21 > 0:40:22# All right... #
0:40:37 > 0:40:40I went into the band and I will say something for myself that,
0:40:40 > 0:40:46I think that I picked them up.
0:40:46 > 0:40:49I gave them a shot in the arm. Not literally.
0:40:49 > 0:40:54It was a whole new experience with him. I loved touring with him.
0:40:54 > 0:40:57He had a ball. He was never down, he was never difficult,
0:40:57 > 0:41:02and then, after the show, you had this maniac!
0:41:02 > 0:41:06Wild. Wild on stage. Wild in hotels.
0:41:06 > 0:41:09He was a bit of an animal between the sheets, I believe.
0:41:09 > 0:41:12- He was married at the time.- He was a bit of an animal between the sheets,
0:41:12 > 0:41:15so his wife tells me!
0:41:16 > 0:41:19We had a routine going where he wanted to be and he wanted
0:41:19 > 0:41:21the middle of the stage - pushing and shoving -
0:41:21 > 0:41:27it started getting a little bit showbizzy, but it was fun.
0:41:29 > 0:41:34I've always loved this expression - serious fun.
0:41:34 > 0:41:37Because it is serious, you've got rehearse, you've got to travel,
0:41:37 > 0:41:43you've got to play, you've got to perform, but you've got
0:41:43 > 0:41:46to have the fun. If you take the fun away, I don't want to know.
0:41:46 > 0:41:47Right now, it's new release time.
0:41:54 > 0:41:57It's called Roll Away The Stone, from Mott the Hoople
0:41:57 > 0:41:59and Thunderthighs!
0:41:59 > 0:42:00APPLAUSE
0:42:16 > 0:42:19# Baby, if you just say you care
0:42:19 > 0:42:23# I'll follow you most anywhere
0:42:23 > 0:42:27# Roll away the stone Roll away the stone
0:42:28 > 0:42:31# And in the darkest night... #
0:42:31 > 0:42:34We didn't invent glam rock. It was there,
0:42:34 > 0:42:38so we went for it. That was what it was going to take at that time.
0:42:38 > 0:42:41We knew David was doing it, Roxy were doing it.
0:42:41 > 0:42:44# Won't you roll away the stone... #
0:42:44 > 0:42:48Really, they were not glamorous, at all.
0:42:48 > 0:42:54They looked like hod carriers in drag! In a nice way!
0:42:56 > 0:43:00It was so camp, it was Liberace on LSD, gone completely mad.
0:43:00 > 0:43:05It wasn't glam rock, at all, it was mad vaudeville.
0:43:05 > 0:43:13The clothes were outrageous! Put Overend in eight-inch platforms
0:43:13 > 0:43:16and you've got something that was not found in nature.
0:43:16 > 0:43:19It was an incredible sight.
0:43:19 > 0:43:22He had to lie down. Me and Rich would get him into his boots.
0:43:22 > 0:43:23He couldn't get them on,
0:43:23 > 0:43:27You've got to go over your jeans. because they came up to his crotch.
0:43:27 > 0:43:29Getting him on and off stage was difficult.
0:43:29 > 0:43:31I remember the roadies having to push him up
0:43:31 > 0:43:33a ramp to get him on stage.
0:43:33 > 0:43:38Every night, he would spray himself a big silver cross on his chest,
0:43:38 > 0:43:39hairy chest!
0:43:39 > 0:43:42I used to have to order 47 cans of silver hair spray.
0:43:42 > 0:43:45He would get through one and a half, two cans a night.
0:43:45 > 0:43:49And all of a sudden, he run out, so he said to Stan, "I ain't
0:43:49 > 0:43:51"fucking playing here tonight. I ain't doing the fucking gig
0:43:51 > 0:43:55"unless you get me some paint." So he went down to the local garage
0:43:55 > 0:43:57"Hey, Stan, go down the garage!"
0:43:57 > 0:43:59He's using car spray on his head.
0:43:59 > 0:44:03"Fucking great, Stan!" Next day, "Stan, I can't get the paint off?"
0:44:03 > 0:44:06We weren't daft, we could see the funny side of it,
0:44:06 > 0:44:07but nevertheless we still did it.
0:44:07 > 0:44:11Sad day, the day we came down off them shoes. What?!
0:44:11 > 0:44:14That was a pretty good period and things were going well.
0:44:14 > 0:44:20We were doing a lot of business and the band was ticking over nicely.
0:44:20 > 0:44:22I had Roll Away The Stone in the can.
0:44:22 > 0:44:24We didn't put it on the Mott album, because we knew we were
0:44:24 > 0:44:27all right on the Mott album. We didn't know what would happen
0:44:27 > 0:44:30on the Hoople album, but we knew we had Roll Away The Stone,
0:44:30 > 0:44:34so we knew we had a hit.
0:44:34 > 0:44:38And then Golden Age came along, so we knew we were all right with that.
0:44:57 > 0:45:00# Everybody hazy shell-shocked and crazy
0:45:00 > 0:45:04# Screaming for the face at the window
0:45:04 > 0:45:06# Jeans for the genies... #
0:45:06 > 0:45:10I think they were the only band that Queen ever actually supported,
0:45:10 > 0:45:12so for us to land that tour with them was really quite
0:45:12 > 0:45:19a challenge, because they were known as a great live act.
0:45:19 > 0:45:20and we could give them a run for their money
0:45:20 > 0:45:22and Ian really knew that and it was
0:45:22 > 0:45:25really who could go down the best every night, but, hey, they were the
0:45:25 > 0:45:28main act anyway, so they were going to make sure they went down best.
0:45:28 > 0:45:32"Turn the PA down a bit for that lot. They're going down too well!"
0:45:33 > 0:45:37Fred Heller, our American manager, he was really trying to go for it,
0:45:37 > 0:45:41he said, "You know, nobody has ever done Broadway, we can do this,
0:45:41 > 0:45:44"we can get CBS, we can get NBC, we can get the whole schlemiel."
0:45:44 > 0:45:49It looked like Fairfield Hall, Croydon, which we'd done a few times.
0:45:50 > 0:45:56Quite a thing, to pack out the Uris Theatre for seven nights
0:45:56 > 0:45:58and we went into the Guinness Book Of Records for that.
0:45:58 > 0:46:00It was a brilliant idea.
0:46:00 > 0:46:04I think we lost money on it, but it did wonders for our reputation.
0:46:07 > 0:46:09It was very theatrical.
0:46:09 > 0:46:10It was a really good show
0:46:10 > 0:46:13and all the Marionettes coming down from the ceiling.
0:46:13 > 0:46:15We always liked giving off a show.
0:46:15 > 0:46:17I remember on that tour we couldn't use them
0:46:17 > 0:46:20the whole tour and we were upset places where we couldn't do it.
0:46:20 > 0:46:22The reaction would be the same but we liked to give them
0:46:22 > 0:46:25everything we could give them, you know.
0:46:27 > 0:46:30We learned a hell of a lot from them, in terms of presentation,
0:46:30 > 0:46:36how to whip up excitement, because, boy, they were good at that.
0:46:36 > 0:46:40# Everybody groove, ain't no trouble on the streets now
0:46:40 > 0:46:44# Oh, if the going gets rough, don't you blame us
0:46:44 > 0:46:46# Your 96 decibel... #
0:46:46 > 0:46:52The recording side of Mott the Hoople was one that
0:46:52 > 0:46:59I sat uneasy with this and I sat very uncomfortable with that.
0:46:59 > 0:47:04I loved what Luther Grosvenor did in Spooky Tooth - it wasn't mad
0:47:04 > 0:47:11Ariel Bender gymnastics, it was amazing guitar playing - dramatic.
0:47:11 > 0:47:17That didn't fit with what Mott were doing. I don't think so.
0:47:17 > 0:47:20Problem was he was a bit like a fish out of water, when he was in Mott.
0:47:20 > 0:47:22Creatively, there was going to have to be a point
0:47:22 > 0:47:27where we were going to have to write another record. The live show
0:47:27 > 0:47:31was great and Luther was fantastic, but I could just see,
0:47:31 > 0:47:37I'm going to get lumbered with all of this and I dunno.
0:47:37 > 0:47:43It just seemed, it just seemed that another change was in order.
0:47:43 > 0:47:46Our guest tonight has just joined Mott the Hoople.
0:47:46 > 0:47:48You know, of course, that I'm talking of Mick Ronson.
0:47:48 > 0:47:53A couple of people, Mick Rock, Anya, one of the old girls who was
0:47:53 > 0:47:57PR for Bowie, they'd be saying to me, "Why don't you talk to Ronson?"
0:47:57 > 0:48:00And I thought they'd be queuing up for Mick,
0:48:00 > 0:48:03but Mick was sitting at home doing nothing.
0:48:03 > 0:48:05David had sort of retired.
0:48:06 > 0:48:09So, in the end, I rang Mick up, went round and met them,
0:48:09 > 0:48:12sat with them all night, transatlantic calls to
0:48:12 > 0:48:15DeFries, then around five the following morning, he was in.
0:48:15 > 0:48:18The thing that occurs to me about you having joined Mott,
0:48:18 > 0:48:21having worked with David in the early days
0:48:21 > 0:48:23and, in a sense, having set the pattern of his music
0:48:23 > 0:48:26and then working as a solo artist, are you finding it in any way
0:48:26 > 0:48:30difficult slotting into what really is already set with Mott?
0:48:32 > 0:48:35No, I'm not finding any difficulty, at all.
0:48:37 > 0:48:43It'll be nice when we record a new album, because then
0:48:43 > 0:48:48I'll probably feel as though I've added more to Mott the Hoople.
0:48:48 > 0:48:52Ronson came with some baggage. Just as he joined us, he released
0:48:52 > 0:48:55a solo album, so it was strange. He came in, but he had a solo career
0:48:55 > 0:49:00going at the same time, so when we did concerts in Europe,
0:49:00 > 0:49:04one record company would come and see Mott the Hoople and another record
0:49:04 > 0:49:09company would come to see Mick and he'd have his own limousine and
0:49:09 > 0:49:12his own champagne and hangers-on, so it was a rather strange situation.
0:49:12 > 0:49:15What was he on - RCA? We were on Columbia.
0:49:15 > 0:49:19He had DeFries as a manager,
0:49:19 > 0:49:22we had, I think, Fred Heller as a manager. This doesn't work,
0:49:22 > 0:49:24especially with someone like DeFries, who's a control freak.
0:49:24 > 0:49:32Suddenly, it wasn't a unified band. It was two stars within a band and
0:49:32 > 0:49:40Overend and Buffin were resentful. This led to a lot of bad feeling.
0:49:40 > 0:49:46And then we did a European tour and it just didn't work out.
0:49:46 > 0:49:50I thought it was dyed in the wool. I thought it would work out.
0:49:50 > 0:49:53I thought it was going to be great.
0:49:53 > 0:49:55Amazing, a recharge of the batteries, because we were tired.
0:49:55 > 0:49:58Luther had been fantastic, because he'd kept
0:49:58 > 0:50:01the whole thing going for about a year, with his enthusiasm
0:50:01 > 0:50:05and his energy. Now, that wasn't there
0:50:05 > 0:50:08and everything went a little dark.
0:50:08 > 0:50:14We had real problems with Ronno, because he wouldn't speak to
0:50:14 > 0:50:20the rest of the band, which was something I'd never heard of before.
0:50:20 > 0:50:25It isn't like we were sort of...
0:50:25 > 0:50:31It wasn't like we disliked him. We thought he was the Messiah,
0:50:31 > 0:50:36certainly the Guitar Messiah, so what went wrong, I just don't know.
0:50:38 > 0:50:41Back end of that tour wasn't much fun. I remember sitting somewhere
0:50:41 > 0:50:44- Amsterdam, it might have been - with Charles Shaar Murray,
0:50:44 > 0:50:48who was a very good writer and I looked down and my hands had gone
0:50:48 > 0:50:51like that and I thought, "Oh God, here we go."
0:50:51 > 0:50:55You could sense there was a no-win situation arising.
0:50:55 > 0:50:57"What are we going to do now?"
0:50:57 > 0:51:01I had no intentions of leaving at that point. We just want to keep
0:51:01 > 0:51:04this thing going and get it going and he's a great guitar player.
0:51:04 > 0:51:10All right, it's DeFries, all right it's RCA, but we can still make this
0:51:10 > 0:51:13work, but somehow... Maybe we were too tired, maybe we had
0:51:13 > 0:51:18just had enough, maybe Mott had run its course, which I think it had.
0:51:18 > 0:51:21The next tour of America promoters had been offering them,
0:51:21 > 0:51:25"Look, you come back with the right album, you can do a stadium tour."
0:51:25 > 0:51:28I don't think they realised, some of the band members, that this
0:51:28 > 0:51:29wasn't a bottomless pit here.
0:51:29 > 0:51:33It wasn't just going to keep coming and it wasn't coming.
0:51:36 > 0:51:40I think the attitude was, "We'll do another album
0:51:40 > 0:51:44"and that'll be it, Ian will do that." But I wasn't capable.
0:51:44 > 0:51:47I knew I could function again and I didn't care on what level,
0:51:47 > 0:51:49but it wasn't going to work like it was.
0:51:50 > 0:51:53Because I'm very susceptible to other people
0:51:53 > 0:51:56and this wasn't warm, this was all over the place.
0:51:56 > 0:51:59The pressure was on him more than anything.
0:51:59 > 0:52:02He was the one that had to come up with these songs.
0:52:02 > 0:52:07And in the end, it just got too much for him.
0:52:07 > 0:52:10And with the friction as well, just couldn't handle, it all.
0:52:12 > 0:52:17The first leg was sold out, but I wound up in hospital in Jersey
0:52:17 > 0:52:20and the doctor said, "You've got to stop doing what you're doing,
0:52:20 > 0:52:22"because you don't like it."
0:52:22 > 0:52:25# But then we went to Croydon... #
0:52:27 > 0:52:30Stan came over to try and get me to go back.
0:52:30 > 0:52:35He said, "I'm here to tell you we should patch this up
0:52:35 > 0:52:38"and get on with it." I said, "We're done, Stan. We're done."
0:52:38 > 0:52:40And Stan says, "I agree".
0:52:40 > 0:52:47And Stan being "The Man" - really, the spine of the whole thing...
0:52:47 > 0:52:51It made me feel better, because I thought, "I'm the only one,
0:52:51 > 0:52:54"I'm going mental here." I wasn't feeling well, at all.
0:52:55 > 0:52:57There was a lot of speculation.
0:52:57 > 0:53:02First of all, it was four dates cancelled, then it was
0:53:02 > 0:53:05the full tour, then it was going to get re-scheduled, then it wasn't.
0:53:05 > 0:53:08Each week, glimmers of hope were being dashed.
0:53:08 > 0:53:16Finally, I was sitting around having tea with my parents,
0:53:16 > 0:53:19I was still living at home. My mum said "There's someone on
0:53:19 > 0:53:25"the phone for you." It was Ian. "I've left the band, I can't go on."
0:53:27 > 0:53:29It was a big shock.
0:53:29 > 0:53:33It took quite a long time to realise, "That's it, lads, no more
0:53:33 > 0:53:34"Mott the Hoople."
0:53:36 > 0:53:42It was a blow, a hell of a blow, to be honest with you.
0:53:44 > 0:53:47I think it's a blow the rest of us
0:53:47 > 0:53:55never got... We just didn't know how to deal with it, really.
0:53:55 > 0:53:59People were crying. There were fan club members phoning me up,
0:53:59 > 0:54:02people were genuinely grieving when Mott split,
0:54:02 > 0:54:06they really were sad. Like they'd lost a relative.
0:54:10 > 0:54:15I know I felt like that, end of an era for me.
0:54:15 > 0:54:19I'd come of age with Mott - they were my growing up,
0:54:19 > 0:54:22and I owed a lot of my growing up to Mott,
0:54:22 > 0:54:26and when they split, I felt like I was out on my own in the world, too.
0:54:26 > 0:54:28# Do you remember those Saturday gigs
0:54:28 > 0:54:31# And you did, you did
0:54:32 > 0:54:35# Do you remember those Saturday gigs
0:54:35 > 0:54:39# Cos you did, you did
0:54:42 > 0:54:44# Oh
0:54:46 > 0:54:48# Oh... #
0:54:49 > 0:54:52I remember thinking outside the Rainbow one night.
0:54:52 > 0:54:54I was over the pub and the press were in there, and I thought,
0:54:54 > 0:54:57"All I've got to do is put a bottle through that mirror - which
0:54:57 > 0:55:01"some people do - and I've got front pages all over England tomorrow."
0:55:03 > 0:55:08And that was how you could get success.
0:55:08 > 0:55:11So I started getting jaundiced about the whole thing.
0:55:11 > 0:55:14I didn't like myself that much, when we were big.
0:55:14 > 0:55:16Pretty precious, you know.
0:55:16 > 0:55:21Insular, insulated, planes, hotel- you've heard it all before.
0:55:23 > 0:55:25There's nothing there, there's nothing there,
0:55:25 > 0:55:29the fun is the ride, but there ain't no station.
0:55:35 > 0:55:41I think it's a unique story, with all the various disasters,
0:55:41 > 0:55:44triumphs, well, climb up the mountains
0:55:44 > 0:55:47fall down the holes, he said it himself.
0:55:47 > 0:55:51It's all in the space of five years,
0:55:51 > 0:55:55now that's how long the Kaiser Chiefs have been around, isn't it?
0:55:56 > 0:55:59But who really cares?
0:55:59 > 0:56:04Groups today don't capture the imagination, the emotions,
0:56:04 > 0:56:11and the feelings that Mott did, Mott had something which hit you
0:56:11 > 0:56:14right there and made you really care.
0:56:14 > 0:56:16# ..to much inside... #
0:56:16 > 0:56:18When you hear the songs
0:56:18 > 0:56:22they have the same spirit, that spirit lives on
0:56:22 > 0:56:25and that's why their stuff lasts so well, plus it's fascinating to
0:56:25 > 0:56:30listen to it, because it's not our usual one...thing,
0:56:30 > 0:56:32one-dimensional thing, it's more than that
0:56:32 > 0:56:37or it meant more than that to me, anyway.
0:56:37 > 0:56:40# ..on the way
0:56:40 > 0:56:44# And now I see we have today... #
0:56:44 > 0:56:51I must dream about roadie-ing about once or twice every month,
0:56:51 > 0:56:56and this is 40 years since I've done anything like that even vaguely.
0:56:58 > 0:57:02And I still can wake up thinking, "Jesus, where's the leads?"
0:57:02 > 0:57:05"Where did I leave the truck?" or something like that and Rich
0:57:05 > 0:57:09and I are still the same in that dream.
0:57:09 > 0:57:11# And Mick lost his guitar... #
0:57:14 > 0:57:19I think when I look back on Mott, what I see now is what
0:57:19 > 0:57:22I didn't see then, which is just the pure innocence
0:57:22 > 0:57:26and the love of the music and the love that's just in the music
0:57:26 > 0:57:29is just there, you can feel it.
0:57:29 > 0:57:34And I know that sounds soppy but then I'm from the sixties!
0:57:34 > 0:57:35# You all know
0:57:35 > 0:57:38# Just what I'd do... #
0:57:40 > 0:57:42I was never one for school,
0:57:42 > 0:57:44my schooling was with Mott the Hoople.
0:57:44 > 0:57:47I learned about life when I was with Mott the Hoople, it was great.
0:57:47 > 0:57:51The music, it was more than a band- it was a way of life.
0:57:51 > 0:57:55# And for the sound
0:57:57 > 0:58:02# We were all somewhere on the way... #
0:58:02 > 0:58:07I always say to people that, "The only band I ever want to
0:58:07 > 0:58:12be in is Mott the Hoople." I know it's ridiculous, but it was such
0:58:12 > 0:58:16a strange and weird and wonderful band that just came really out of
0:58:16 > 0:58:24nowhere, except in Guy Stevens' head, and that's quite some head!
0:59:00 > 0:59:04# Rock'n'roll's a loser's game
0:59:04 > 0:59:08# It mesmerises and I can't explain
0:59:08 > 0:59:12# The reasons for the sights
0:59:12 > 0:59:15# And for the sounds
0:59:18 > 0:59:21# The greasepaint still sticks to my face
0:59:21 > 0:59:25# So what the hell I can't erase
0:59:25 > 0:59:29# The rock'n'roll feeling
0:59:30 > 0:59:32# From my mind. #
0:59:39 > 0:59:40# From my mind
0:59:48 > 0:59:50# From my mind... #